I Gigged the Fender Tone Master FR12
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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Absolutely stunning version of I Can't Make You Love Me
World class
6:32 nice line from What About Me, Snarky Puppy. Love the idea of sneaking things in there, worked perfectly as the exit for your solo!
Good catch
Knew I'd heard that somewhere!
Thanks for all the good stuff you put up on this channel John. I bought an FR-10 (same specs as FR-12 except size/weight) after your second video on the FR-12. I wasn’t aware of this speaker prior.
My experience after two weeks… it works/sounds nice. This is a definite game changer for live sound. I’m using a Helix. The XLR out is a pass through and works with the unit powered off. The “hiss” is not present on this one any more than a high quality powered PA speaker. It’s been through a couple rehearsals using a PA with monitors and a couple pub jams as a stand alone amp on stage. The sound is superior to the QSC K10.2 that I have been using for over a year. A couple notable differences… it is not as sensitive to listening angle relative to the tweeter and nice not to need so much EQ’ing to get a good sound. Maybe Fender set the crossover frequency somewhere different than a typical PA speaker, something more appropriate for guitar frequencies?
The hi cut generally takes care of the any shrill sounds. Note the shrill increases with volume, so be sure to get used to adjusting for that. One fender clean like preset got boomy/bassy on stage and I did not like how reducing bass on the speaker changed the tone, so ultimately adjusted the preset to correct. I need to explore the active EQ more… as of now it stays flat except the cut.
I’m now building presets while listening through the FR-10 because live sound is my priority, however, it sounds good through the PA with minimal PA EQ too.
It’s plenty loud as an amp on stage with a full band (registering 90-100 dB on the back wall sound meter) with volume set to 10-11 o’clock after adjusting the Helix output. It sounds good at low volume practicing at home too.
I tried a Mooer Prime P2 and it generally sounded good with built in presets… need to build my own presets and see how it goes.
Highly recommended after trying multiple powdered PA speakers (favorite QSC K10.2) and a PowerCab over the last 1.5 years. Oh and it weighs less than the K10 which is nice. My total rig (no guitars) weight is now about 45 lbs. This is very practical after hauling around over 100 lbs multiple times per week for years.
I'm 90% sure the cross over starts are 2750hz and I'm not sure what the curve or bias runs from there. I love the fr12 sounds so good!
How did you decide to go for a FR10 instead of FR12? Trying to decide between these 2
@mixedfruitjam I play bass and guitar, so for me, I figured the 12' would be more suited to my needs. I don't think you can go wrong either wa. They are both exceptional powered cabs.
@@mixedfruitjambeing that the basic electric specs and functions are identical and it’s FRFR that I’d start with the FR-10 for ease of portability. I have an FR-12 on order to be sure of this choice.
@@random1sunev Thank you! Would love to know your thoughts on FR-12 (vs. FR-10) once you get it
I'm using an FR12 with my Quad Cortex, and it brought back that "amp on stage" feel that was missing since I switched to a modeler.
@user-tf4tv9bj4f Sorry this is late because I'm just seeing your question. No, it does not buzz or hiss and is no louder than an amp that is idling.
Bro, thank you. I was looking for this kinda comment.
I'm thinking on buying this for my AmperoIIStage.
I miss that "amp on stage/amp in the room" feeling since I started using modelers.
Fender did amazing work with this.
Rock on, dude.
Dude, that heartbreaker of an intro ❤
Great, now the song’s stuck in my head.
Came for the review and stayed for the beautiful tone and playing.
FWIW... on 3rd gig with FR12 (using helix) and it has been outstanding, even in rooms where it has always been really hard to get a usable guitar sound. I am getting much better/easier results than ever. Super happy with this purchase (so far).
For the longest time, I didn’t realize that was a mic you would clip to your hat. I thought you were stealing them and those were the security tags hanging from the bill.😂
😂😂
I Can't Make You Love Me is one of the most beautiful songs ever written and this arrangement was pure gold! Not sure if you've done a video on just that, but would love to hear it if not? Also, just upgraded from a PodGo to a Helix so I'm going to be watching a LOT, and I mean a LOT of your videos soon to get some good tones!!!
Lovely interpretation of one of my favourite songs. I watch this channel more for the playing than the gear.. any chance of a video on how you put the front session together?
For anybody looking for some of these benefits who already has a katana, they are great to run a non cab simmed signal into if you can rig that up w/ your modeler of choice. Works for me as im not a pro w/ a budget for new gear. Cordy… playing as inspiring as ever… keep on killing it.
+ 1 for that Bonnie Raitt intro! So good!! I would love to hear more about the songs and playing that you do in the intros
I’m using an HX stomp and FR12 with my cover band as well. Our live schedule doesn’t start until March so I haven’t used the XLR out to FOH yet.
Great video and nice real life stuff. As a live player myself I get fed up of amazing tones from modellers into FRFR which would not cut live with a full band. This is a geat over view of how this works with another companies modeller and favourite pedals live, exactly what I would do in the real world. Thank you sir great job.
Best FRFR for the Money... Boss Katana Artist MKII. Using Kemper. Right out to Katana, left out to house (nice wide stereo). If the Kemper ever failed, 30 seconds I'm back up and running before the song is over. Love my rig!
Is the Artist frfr?
Don't think so.. Has a custom waza cream / green back but works great as an FRFR (my failed point in comment it appears). Also you can bypass the pre-amp section for uncolored (i prefer a touch of color). Good day God Bless...@@bloodflower2141
One of your best clean tone intros I have heard...
the one thing that’s bugging me is the buzz LOL otherwise great tone
I’d be interested to know your thoughts on how this compares to the Laney versions, that folks like Guthrie are currently using…?
Agreed. I use a Laney LFR-112 and like it, but it would be really great to get a comparison with the Fenders.
Love that song Mike Reid wrote for Bonnie Raitt.
The hiss was fixed in recent manufacturing lots. I just got one new and there no noticeable hiss anymore.
I use a DI from my board with my pedals, UAFX Dream and Ruby to XLR to my FR12. And I go from FR12 to PA for a touch to even out the room sound.
Nice Snarky Puppy quote in the second clip
I was just checking to see if anybody else caught it. Tastefully done!
Less than 400 until the 100k. I think to celebrate John Cordy should do a 100,000 note legato run.
2:44 those harmonics are so magical
I'm in a band we do some 80s-90s classic rock. The new guitarist wants to use his Fractal unit with FOH but we don't have the power in our rehearsal PA. I love the sound of these modelers I have one myself. I don't perform live with one though. I've been playing 40 years with vintage tube amps you don't just walk away from that a switch to one of these systems. He's bringing this Fender Tone Master. I hope it's the 12. I use 2 4x12x two heads. My master head is a Friedman BE100D and the slave is a JCM800. I hope it can keep up on the Judas Priest and the other really heavy stuff we do.
Great info. Bought one a couple weeks ago (FR12) but haven't had the chance to gig with it yet, worked great in rehearsal last week. Gig this weekend & can't wait to try it out. Worked out great in rehearsal.
1 Year ago you explained to us, why you stopped using FRFR :-). What made you change your mind?
John’s wife wears the trousers but as the Patreon is going ok, he’s hoping to buy a second pair soon.
I heard she's looking forward to a new pair 😂
Love my ToneMaster Pro and FR12. I switched from the Helix and it's the best guitar-related decision I've made in a long time.
The hiss was very prevelant in your intro playing. Fender has to solve that issue for this to be a real contender. IMHO.
Mine’s going back today because I found. The hiss to be excessive. Was about 42db with the cut at zero and for my use case that did bother me. It also irks me that fender say that this is entirely expected, when some smart forum members have demonstrated that it’s a really trivial thing to fix (with a bit of soldering know how) and they could have avoided all this by spending a few quid more on parts.
Isn’t that just single coil hum??
@joefriedmanguitarnut yep it's 100% single coil hum. I own one of these and the "hiss" is negligible
@JosephX74 yeah I'm aware of that. Apparently seems to vary between units, too. Just doesn't sound that like that to me in this video, more like single coil hum, but I could be wrong 🤷♂️
That’s the tube amp emulation. They need to add pops and other ear shattering imperfections in v2
I can say that I have used this and John is right, I really enjoyed this as an option for my pod go. It's amazing! I'd happily purchase one.
Can you compare Laney LFR with tone master FRFR?
Would love to get an idea of your set list for your 80’s gigs.
John will be at 100K subscribers before the end of this YEAR. WAY TO GO for our Screaming Legato Boy!!!!!!!!!!!
Now I like the song “I can’t make you love me”. Lol.
Good review. I've got about 2 dozen gigs with it and it works really well especially as a stand alone amp. I run L/R to the FOH but there's a hole in the middle of the stage and it covers it. I use a Helix floor but for rehearsals I've been using a TC Electronics Nova System into a Strymon Iridium and that sounds great too. I still haven't noticed a hiss in mine but I run the cut at 12 o'clock. Until something better comes along at this price point the Fender is a winner.
Would be good for you to do a video with the FR12 and FM9 if possible John?
Didn't the sans amp people bring a powered cab for live work out about ten years ago, and wasn't there a THD cab available then?
Just a bedroom noodler here, but i run my FM9 through an ElectroVoice PXM-12mp wedge monitor and couldn't be happier... but the rigs I played on for ~20 years before dipping my toes into the sim/ modeling world were never that great, either lol
I also bought the fr-12. So far I LOVE it! I suspect that fender will sell A LOT of these. I'm thinking about getting the fr-10 and running stereo for the first time, also to compare with my koch amps "greg", and my vibrolux, both of which have 10" speakers.
Those intros man, superb.
Ahh, that Bonnie Raitt tune is one of my favorite songs. Well done!
I ordered one about a week ago in the US and is backordered with no estimate of when it might arrive. Fender must be selling a ton of these even with the hiss issue. Its crazy that virtually no other manufacturer produced an FRFR cab with power amp that looks like a real guitar amp. Line 6 got close and a few others but all seemed to miss the mark. Instead for the most part they went with the PA monitor concept which I think put off a fair number of prospective buyers off a bit. I currently use a stagecraft Birch Ply cab with an celestion FX12--200 in it and powered by a blackstar amped1 power amp in clean mode. It weighs about 42lbs. (minus the amped1) and sounds ok, but to move it around sucks. If the hiss is to much for me I will modify the preamp in the FRFR 1x12 with better op amp components as others have done to reduce that issue. Really interested in comparing what I use now with the Fender cab when it arrives.
Did you stopped using the fr12 in live sessions?
Loved the playing, and the music and nice guitar too. And usually, I really love the tones. But, just for once, I'm not sure I love the sound on this Fender Tone Master FR12. To me, it has a bit of an unpleasant edgy graininess. Something that reminds me of the sound of not amazing sounding Class D studio monitors, or even NS-10s - revealing but not at all flattering. It's all subjective, but idk, there's something bright maybe at 4k. But not sparkly like a Vox AC, more grating like a sandy scratchy violin tone about the sound. Though, I reckon, live, and projected in a room, the air would soften it, and it might sound quite good.
Man. Relax. Don't sniff the cork so hard...
John, can you get “articulate” and “detailed” sounds from a Helix/modeler? To me this means amplifying the most subtle details of a performance, like finger noise, pick dynamics, etc. I hear these elements when you play through the Bad Cat without effects. I’d love to hear it compared against the Helix + FR12 in attempt to achieve an “articulate” tone. People say these things are missing with modelers but I haven’t seen anyone explore it in a real sound test.
Hey John, how would you compare this FRFR to just an active PA speaker? Shouldn't they be practically the same? What does the Fender brings to the table that a normal active speaker wouldn't?
would like 2 know also
Good question. My guess would be the frequency range of the active PA speaker is wider than an FRFR.
Internally things are slightly different, but a HUGE component is the shape/construction of the box and how the signal is being processed.
A normal PA speaker adds huge amounts of bass when put on the floor and doesn’t feel like a guitar cab when playing through it.
If you can remember, when he mentioned in the video how the speaker dispersed the sound, a typical floor monitor is very focused, whereas the Fender FR12 disperses the sound in a much wider area. It really makes your modeler feel like an amp on stage.
@@joshuabenton3785 Agree with that. When I run my paddleboard through my PA, I have to seriously cut the base with an EQ, or it gets way to boomy.
Great video! Do you like the Fr-12 or the power cab 112 more?
Thanks for the update. Debating buying one to replace my Powercab+. Any plans for a side-by-side comparison?
Great song choice 👌
Matchless Lightning ⚡️excellent choice,sir.
I'd really like to hear something like The Dutchess(Victory) through one of these. A real amp but with a cab sim and XLR line out.
Quilter amps have FRFR toggle switches as well as being a normal amp cab
@@blueleaftuber The real value of the Victory pedal amps is the insane flexibility offered by being able to choose your own cab and the near limitless IR's available from Two-Notes. Given that the cab and mic make maybe 80% of your tone.
6:19 Looks like you clean up pretty good.
Beautiful playing! Still watching. Full sound!......Was the intro piece in stereo?
Almost 100k
I saw a video on yoytube somewhere from someone who said that you can remove the noise by turning something off in the global settings software of the fm 12
I have been thinking about one of these but would like to know if it sounds any better than running hx stomp into power amp input on my katana mk2 100 artist.
This is my first katana amp I bought before I bought the hx stomp and it sounds fantastic through the power amp in. Don’t know if it’s the Waza speaker I’m my katana model or what but would love to compare a modeler through the FR-12 sometime to see if it’s any better than what I’m getting now.
Cheers
Almost same situation for me. I had my Stomp for a while and recently got my first Katana (Artist MK 2). I've been using HX Stomp AMP block only into the Power Amp IN and think it sounds great but it's quite a heavy unit so the Fender FR12 is attractive for the weight in addition to the other features . I just don't know if I want to spend another $5-$600 bucks just to save 20 pounds. And if I did, should I hold on the Katana if I'm not really using it? Choices!!!
If you already have a Katana Artist, you don't need the FR12. Unless you want to run a stereo rig.
So are you saying the katana sounds just as good as the FR-12 then?
That’s why I would like to try one and see the sound comparison and how the cabs and ir’s sound
@@stoneyroberts9118 I'm saying they both do the same thing. You can probably get both of them to sound good. Either one would work for me. The modeler is doing the tone shaping.
Exquisite playing and phrasing, sir.
Would this work with the Dan simplifier?
No hiss in my fr-10 at all. Projects well and keeps up with other performers on stage. Might start to fade if more then a five or six piece band. Although in my experience, a good FOH level will keep you in the game.
I really wonder if Mike Reid and Allen Shamblin truly understood the level of song they wrote with “I Can’t Make You Love Me”
Great review. The Fr-10 vs FR-12.?? Anyone have thoughts after trying both? I keep seeing mixed reviews on which one sounds better. More natural....love to know which has the better tone. Weight and volume aren't a concern.
Thanks for all things guitar!
… the hiss issue, i didn’t catch if you were using a balanced trs cable between the left output (hx stomp) and the fr12 instead of a ts (like a guitar cable) could help if not, i would realy like to know!!! Chears
That intro was gorgeous. Do you have a transcription of that?
Not at the moment - I just heard Bonnie Raitt's I can't Make You Love me on the way home and had it in my mind!
Hey John, great video, I was looking for an FRFR with some EQ scope a while back, would have tried the fender tonemaster for sure. Can I ask, have you ever tried the G66 MF.10's? I bought a pair and think they are the closest 'amp in the room' I have tried. However there is no EQ which I expect is well useful. I currently use FM9 through the MF. 10's, I do like them but I expect a little more head room with the Fender tonemaster..
Be interested in your thoughts between this and the laney 212 - not sure how much heavier that one is. And like you say - when you need to carry something like that plus a modeller or a larger board..... isn't it just best to take an amp and look after it over the years.
That intro was sweet
+++ best Solution for "CAB MIC" best Sound .... cool idea, i like!!!+++
Great review
How would you compare this to using the Catalyst in power amp mode? I’ve been doing that when I need stage volume and used two Catalyst 60’s in stereo last night and thought they performer outstanding personally. Same trick you did before with leaving speaker emulation on and just sending it right to the input on the back.
@johnnathancordy
Hi,think this my nxt purchase. Would like to hear your views on the Effectrode Blackbird preamp
Really useful, thanks!
I think i think i think
would this cab work with UAFX Dream 65?
No excuse for having hiss in this unit.
My understanding is that Fender got it all sorted out with newer batches.
Nice! How does it sound with a boss ME-90?
so when you're using a real cab like the FR12, in helix do you have to use presets without a cab?
@johnnathancordy, Could you please share if your HX Stomp presets are changed at all from the ones you post for download for the Fender Fr12? Using full AMP + CAB blocks? Or just AMP? Thank you!
Thanks John for the video! It is a phenomenal speaker. Do you think you could use a db meter to measure the hiss? I’m genuinely curious if there really is a big difference between unit’s hiss levels.
I bought an FR-10 (same specs as FR-12 except size) a couple weeks ago and it works/sounds nice. There is “no” hiss or nothing that I would have noticed if it wasn’t already mentioned on RUclips. I leave it on/plugged into a PA (unmuted) all the time and don’t notice anything. All controls are at 12 o’clock. I use the Helix volume knob to set volume. IMO buy one and if there’s something noticeable exchange it. It’s quieter than any tube amp I’ve used over the last 20 years.
@@random1sunev if your amp’s cut is set to noon, good chance the hiss won’t bother you. But you are losing noticeable high end.
It doesn't hiss any more than any of my other amps...
So does this really feel like sitting in röntgen of an amp? Really tempted by this and a stomp/FM3/QC for mainly home use but don’t want to lose that feeling of being in front of an amp.
Hey John on your website what would be a good preset for a all-around tone for covers like D Purple Early BS and Zep i use a Helix Floorboard and just purchased This FR12 tone master
Can anyone tell me if this fender sounds better than a mission engineering 2x12 cab? I know it will definitely be easier to carry around but if the sound isn’t at least as good then it won’t be worth it to me.
I can't speak to the mission cab, but mine sounds really good compared to my many amps!!!
@@brianmiller3287 Thanks. 👍🏼
@Ou812em did you get a chance to try the Fender? Curious to know how it compares with the Mission Gemini 2x12 cab as well.
@@mzennadi I bought the FR10. Doesn’t sound bad at all. Doesn’t have the volume I would have liked for the heavy rock band I’m in but I mic it and put it on a stand closer to my ears for monitoring. Does very well. I like it. I think I would probably have gone for the FR12 knowing what I know now but it is still very good. And lightweight. Love that.
Intro 🔥🔥❤️
John, I just got my HX Stomp. Do you think it goes better with a Boss Katana 50w mk2 or a Fender FR-12? Pls help me out 😅
Please do a fingerstyle lesson on this song
When using a modeler with an amp, do you get the same 'resonance' you would get with a standard Guitar amp with pedals? For example can you still get feedback? I assume yes but very curious. On a budget so I am getting a Pod Go (Santa delivers to 52 year olds right?)
90's Fender Solid State amps always had a hiss
The 80's ones don't hiss
All my amps hum or hiss due to the shit wiring in a 65 yr old house. Only one room doesn't cause the issue, so if I end up getting this FRFR, it'll be tested in the room that doesn't cause issues with my amps.
I wanted the FRFR as I'm sick of using house amps at rehearsal studios and got a Boss IR-2 to run into it to control my sound and volume better.
Loud enough for band practice w no PA?
Is there a difference worth looking into between the FR10 compared to a FR12?
I haven’t played either, but typically 10’s sound a little brighter and have a different feel and response. In my experience they don’t handle distortion as well. It’s all kinda preference, but 12’s are pretty standard on guitar because they usually sound the best.
3:56
"JCB Assman preset" 😂😂😂
I would be curious if the hiss is related to the tone stack / amp controls and is not present in the direct output. I don't mind a little hiss from a stage amp / monitor but would not want to send a dirty signal to FOH
I changed out 2 of the opamps in my FR12. It's now silent.
@user-tf4tv9bj4f Not sure your level of soldering experience, but it is quite simple. Buy two OPA4227PA opamps from Mouser $12.08 each (too many other counterfeit ones sold elsewhere). Then you have to desolder the old ones. I use a Hakko FR301 desoldering gun. You could save money by using a desoldering sucker/pump for about $15. (Then you can either put a socket in so you can drop in the new opamp, or you can solder the new opamp in and leave it for life (that's what I did). Great upgrade! So quiet I forgot it was on!
It's from the tweeter I guess. It wouldn't go to FOH thankfully
@@jerryhill8281 It's not "from" the tweeter. Sure the tweeter will pass on the noise that's generated by the stack of opamps. Read my comment above, it's a simple fix.
I've been using the PodGo, which has the Helix sounds and plenty of options, for a third the price of a Helix. I don't use the amp models at all, but just use it as a pedal board in front of a 1964 (vintage) Princeton. Sounds great, but takes a while to get control over the volume/tones. I used this set up at practice the other night (we're all veteran musicians in our 60s), and I plan to use it on a gig for New Years. My over arching opinion is that about 95% of the tones in all the amp modelers (and virtually all of the factory presets) are not very useful.... too fizzy and brittle for my ears. That said, it is a great alternative to a pedal board and all those cables, etc.. My advice to anyone new to the modeler world is to start out very simple.
Pls more live footage
Curious, did you use the kick-back arms or was the amp set flat on the floor?
jcb assmann😂…
Terrible buzz...
It's not that bad really?
Hiss is not acceptable in 2023. The playing was great as usual- the tone was meh. A bit scoped sounding IMHO.
I built my own cab and it's amazing. Paid $400 for a handwired tube amp 5w- plenty loud at home and zero hiss. I have a few really nice pedals. Tone for days.
Fender is gaslighting customers with some bs that amp hiss is normal...anyone with a proper(vintage) fender knows the amount of hiss from these cabs is not normal or acceptable
@@jasondorsey7110 I agree completely.
How does it compare to the Headrush 112? Great vid brother.