Forestry England do a fantastic job of providing trails that are free to use. I go to Cannock Chase, Grizedale and Whinlater Forest. I always make a point of using their car park and facilities to ensure they get revenue from my visits.
The unofficial trail going off the official trail which you said yourself was a good trail was better and safer than the official trail..and better maintained ...Have seen one of your boys the last few weeks riding in the forest of dean and where was he riding??? Unofficial trails.. also you have filmed videos on these trails
The trails at Tweed Valley are completely maintained by volunteers. I asked a FB group what the Forestry Commission do with all the parking money they make (will be thousands over a busy weekend) and I was chastised by a complete bellend saying I shouldn’t expect the Forestry Commission to maintain trails. Still not had that question answered. The money, or at least a portion, should be reinvested into maintenance
In Australia, for years, rogue elements of the 4WD crowd were charging through wherever they wanted, using chainsaws, causing erosion, harming wildlife & fragile vegetation, introducing weeds etc. MTB'ers had to work hard to distance themselves from that in the public's eye. Luckily, many govt.ts recognise the tourism potential of official trails and build & support such trail networks.
Amazing really, considering it's these off piste trails that put the money in pockets of the Forestry now. People actually travel to ride them. Shit, Embn even filmed a fair few of their vids on said trails in the FoD... What's good for the goose as they say. Official trails are nailed. They are not maintained as they should be and the ones that have been given the treatment have cost ten's of thousands. Makes me a bit sick really. And what do we get from these trails?? People that turn up on Halfords specials, shit helmets and no skill. Then the ambulance comes in. Pretty often too. "Off piste are dangerous" you say... Agree, some things are stupid, but most are built well and with longevity in mind. Built with flow and safe.
Well said, wot people don't realise is most now official trails used to be unofficial, now in my 40's and lucky enuff to hav had a hand in some original FOD trails, and we used to hav to fight the FC to keep them back then, then it became "no wood" now they act like there the law and get volunteers to do the maintenance, personally I can't stand the rubbish at trail centres so off peiste suits me, get away from the insta crowd's and litter bugs
I think if they made more trails with technical features, people wouldn't have to build them in the wrong places. I have seen so many people that don't have the ability to ride features and tear them apart. I call them the fun haters.
In Australia where I am there are some amazing non legal sustainable trails but these were built by experienced riders. There has been an increase in new trails that you can tell are built by new riders that have no idea about flow, lines, contours and erosion - they than post them on strava or trailforx and are definitely putting pressure on our riding areas.
Good show and I totally agree with you. In my area there's no such planning of legal trails, so the only thing we've got are mellow double tracks. I've to drive for 1 hour to come to a trail center.
That video is so much like Australia. The forestry corporation basically saying "we can harvest the forest for profit and nothing bad will happen, but just make sure you don't cut the corner on the MTB trail or the weed eating moths will disappear".
I find the off piste trails are more maintained by the local riders than the forestry maintained trails as we spend pretty much every weekend on them we don’t have a good relationship with the forestry in Plymouth Devon as they tore up all the local trails we made over the past ten years instead of building relationships with us so we can help each other monitor the trails and have rules on what we can build then things can’t progress
Great video and VERY well done Forestry England for achieving a wonderful balance between protecting the environment and improving the wellbeing of communities through enabling healthy activities. Compare that to the New Forest where, thanks to the Verderers, horse riders can go anywhere but cyclists are restricted a small number of unconnected trails that go nowhere and prevent safe cycling between villages. Applying the example of how to professionally manage a national park shown in this video to the New Forest would be supported widely by both enthusiasts and recreational cyclists alike. Time for change!
This is total toss. We build of piste trails in the FOD because we have been over run by the growth in mtb and riders coming from far and wide jamming up our trails and parking wherever they can get a bloody van. And guess what.... the forestry have advertised and encouraged this.... lines there pockets nicely.
Great informative video . I'm lucky to have a area approved near me with downhill and trail routes maintained by locals and rangers .stick to the rules pick up litter, fix any damage ,and respect 🙏
There are some really well made trails in the forest and Wye valley, with well constructed berms and jumps, often following advice from forestry managers, where they have been in contact with them for some guidelines. This "zero construction will be tolerated" goes against previous guidance received, which was along the lines of "no wooden construction", "chicken lines or rollable features" and "slow the trail down before crossing fire roads". This was sensible guidance, that addresses lots of the issues in this video. Zero building will just cause people to not listen.
Although the Forestry England volunteers do an amazing job of maintaining the trails (at Cannock Chase) they simply cannot keep up with the amount of trail erosion, particularly on the more interesting features which encourages people to head off piste. Given the increased popularity of mountain biking conntinued investment is required to keep the trails fresh and challenging.
I agree with you. Dalby is nearest bike park to us and a lot of money was given to it over the years. but they not invested in it well not the MTB trails not with volume of rider that go so that's one of the reasons for off piste trails started.
Hang on a minute… Forestry England tolerate unauthorised trails. The UK has terrible access rules, what we need is right to roam like Scotland. Yes digging up woodland without care is daft… however. My local trail centre is Whinlatter which is fantastic, but despite the fantastic landscape in North West Cumbria we only have one trail centre. I am unimpressed by the fact that there is so little in the way of official trail centres. Absolutely no talk on a plan to build significantly more official trails / trail centres. The problem here is a failure to respond to an increased demand for more access. In terms of the environmental aspect. Yes, keep out of SSIs, but lets recognise that most Forestry England land are in the main factory farmed monoculture deserts. Also not impressed by the self righteous “school mistresses types”interviewed… one sided, would have been better to interview trail builders with blocked out faces and hear their motivation.
I live surrounded by pockets of Sherwood Forest and the biggest damage to forests and woodland is illegal off-road motorbikes. They have trashed so many natural trails and footpaths, it’s becoming a bigger problem since the “surron” craze took off, and people calling them ebikes, when they are clearly electric motorbikes and have no place on the Forestry Commission trails.
Part of mountain biking for me is the nature, follow the rules don't get everyone banned that sucks. It also sucks when the authorities in charge refuse to engage riding groups. I live near Richmond park and they have zero interest in mountain bikers (tbh they seem intent to ban everyone) its a shame because a dedicated oneway trail/loop would be amazing. So hats off the forestry commission for being engaged with riders and I believe the MOD too has opened their lands with similar rules. Another reason never go down a deer tracks, deers carry ticks they drop off onto the tracks looking for their next meal, no thanks!
This video is welcome from EMBN. But, I am often amazed to see video after video of EMBNers riding wet, sometimes muddy, trails and further rutting them out. In the western US, we have the choice of riding on dirt/clay/gravel/rock trails; so, I tend to ride all legal trails during our dry season and limit myself to gravel/rock terrain for the wet months. Some local trails and bike parks that are composed of dirt/clay have appropriate signage to educate the public about this standard.
What about your ridng? I've the feeling that blocking the rear wheel in each and every corner isn't going to improve the trail authorized or not.....?? I certainly go slower, but refuse for myself this kind of riding, except on 25 %+ ramps...
There are a fair few good points in this video BUT official trails are extremely few and far between and most require a long drive to get there which isn’t so bad for older people with transport but isn’t god for kids and people without personal transport. A lot of trails are in commercial forestry plantations which have little wildlife value and they’ll get trashed every few years with forestry operations. These are the places to make trails where they’ll cause the least amount of impact and the FC should be made to engage with the MTB community to allow MTB trail building volunteers to build more and better trails. We’re all tax payers and citizens and we should have a right to access our land.
Once upon a time prisoners were given picks and shovels and told to dig in the ground. It was called hard labour and was a punishment. Now, digging with picks and shovels is called trail building and is considered fun. How things change.
Build better trails then which cater for more intermediate - expert riders then! Dalby forest is one example of 20 odd miles of boring trails. There are many great off piste runs, mostly well built and maintained. unlike the Red trail, poorly maintained, mostly boring AND only funded by season ticket holders who tick the box 'Cycling' as the main activity. Oh, and they charge £9 to use these boring trails! They built a 'World Cup' X/C track and probably only used it a couple of years, that was a waste of money as it's mostly knackered now. Compare that to Hamsterley Forest, where a partnership was made between the FC and local builders and riders, with good quality well built trails with the help of the FC, graded and a great mix of riding ability trails. £6 to park. Guess where we have to travel 180 miles as a round trip to bike? I hope that you do a balanced video asking riders why the ride off piste?
those people who done tose kind of thing remaing me SOME road cyclist that are alwayas complainig about the safety on the road and when they have a bike lane well mantained, they ride on the main road, it will always gona exist some black sheeps. Then cames the others users that are trying to stop bikes in florest and roads, just because they dont like bikes. theres enough space for everyone, so be respectful and kind with the others.
This subject is complex. Biking point of view, as usual, extreme situation are balance by extreme reaction. Except GR, some historical working path and some trail in mountain stations, most of the wild trails were built illegally in France. Some are nice and smart, some others are not. Some are smartly share with hikers, bikers, horse riders... But as usual, some egoistic people and assholes ruin this relationship regularly: destroying trail to win kom, blocking the way, complaining to authority to protect themselves from imaginary risks... I would love more active trail associations and ecologist association informations in the french woods 👍
Here Germany North Rhine Westfalia 95% of the trails are wild and illegal because only a minority is taking effort to legalize them and the government doesn't make it easier. They just tolerate it. The Trail Riders Ruhr, I club I am part of it, are some of the few clubs who try to work together with the local government.
This video is pathetic, locals build trials to get away from the crowding the forestry has created. Trails were built unauthorised way before the forestry caught on and decided to make money from it . This video is trying to strip away the passion, pride and drive from the very people that contributed to create this amazing sport. You wouldn’t have your “authorised” trails if it wasn’t for the the people that started building them in the first place.
I'm so over people talking about being safe. You have to have some common sense. But the whole idea of this safety culture has put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. Mountain biking is dangerous regardless of how safe you are. People get on a mountain bike to experience the feeling a freedom in the outdoors. The idea that being a little bit dangerous is attractive to people. The safe police have made everything suck
@@kevinshort3943 'Rules' do not apply to a man or woman. They only apply to your corporate fraudulent entity. Trespass is the only thing to consider as a man or woman. You will NOT find in any 'legal' realm the terms man or woman.
So the resident sheep worrier introduces the do gooders who want to impose control and complain when they cannot control everything. There is a reason this channel has 198k subscribers and Sam Pilgrim has 1.6 million subs.
So unauthorised building that destroys the environment and damages wildlife is perfectly fine as far as you are concerned, I take it. Your language simply betrays the fact that you are a complete knob.
@@z33r0now3 Foolish gibberish. Off piste skiers take radar reflectors and safety equipment to counter avalanche coverage. It is normal practice to tell someone where you will be skiing. When riding unknown trails it is normally done with at least one other person, to distribute the risk. Fortunately for humanity there are explorers who are prepared to push into the unknown.
Forestry England do a fantastic job of providing trails that are free to use. I go to Cannock Chase, Grizedale and Whinlater Forest. I always make a point of using their car park and facilities to ensure they get revenue from my visits.
The unofficial trail going off the official trail which you said yourself was a good trail was better and safer than the official trail..and better maintained ...Have seen one of your boys the last few weeks riding in the forest of dean and where was he riding??? Unofficial trails.. also you have filmed videos on these trails
The trails at Tweed Valley are completely maintained by volunteers. I asked a FB group what the Forestry Commission do with all the parking money they make (will be thousands over a busy weekend) and I was chastised by a complete bellend saying I shouldn’t expect the Forestry Commission to maintain trails. Still not had that question answered. The money, or at least a portion, should be reinvested into maintenance
In Australia, for years, rogue elements of the 4WD crowd were charging through wherever they wanted, using chainsaws, causing erosion, harming wildlife & fragile vegetation, introducing weeds etc. MTB'ers had to work hard to distance themselves from that in the public's eye. Luckily, many govt.ts recognise the tourism potential of official trails and build & support such trail networks.
It’s still very touchy with a lot of areas but the more contact , working relationships with state / local governments are only going to help us .
Amazing really, considering it's these off piste trails that put the money in pockets of the Forestry now.
People actually travel to ride them. Shit, Embn even filmed a fair few of their vids on said trails in the FoD...
What's good for the goose as they say.
Official trails are nailed. They are not maintained as they should be and the ones that have been given the treatment have cost ten's of thousands. Makes me a bit sick really. And what do we get from these trails??
People that turn up on Halfords specials, shit helmets and no skill.
Then the ambulance comes in. Pretty often too.
"Off piste are dangerous" you say...
Agree, some things are stupid, but most are built well and with longevity in mind. Built with flow and safe.
Carl spot on. Couldn't agree more with you
Well said, wot people don't realise is most now official trails used to be unofficial, now in my 40's and lucky enuff to hav had a hand in some original FOD trails, and we used to hav to fight the FC to keep them back then, then it became "no wood" now they act like there the law and get volunteers to do the maintenance, personally I can't stand the rubbish at trail centres so off peiste suits me, get away from the insta crowd's and litter bugs
I think if they made more trails with technical features, people wouldn't have to build them in the wrong places. I have seen so many people that don't have the ability to ride features and tear them apart. I call them the fun haters.
In Australia where I am there are some amazing non legal sustainable trails but these were built by experienced riders. There has been an increase in new trails that you can tell are built by new riders that have no idea about flow, lines, contours and erosion - they than post them on strava or trailforx and are definitely putting pressure on our riding areas.
Good show and I totally agree with you. In my area there's no such planning of legal trails, so the only thing we've got are mellow double tracks. I've to drive for 1 hour to come to a trail center.
That video is so much like Australia.
The forestry corporation basically saying "we can harvest the forest for profit and nothing bad will happen, but just make sure you don't cut the corner on the MTB trail or the weed eating moths will disappear".
I find the off piste trails are more maintained by the local riders than the forestry maintained trails as we spend pretty much every weekend on them we don’t have a good relationship with the forestry in Plymouth Devon as they tore up all the local trails we made over the past ten years instead of building relationships with us so we can help each other monitor the trails and have rules on what we can build then things can’t progress
Off piste =pissed off
Great video and VERY well done Forestry England for achieving a wonderful balance between protecting the environment and improving the wellbeing of communities through enabling healthy activities. Compare that to the New Forest where, thanks to the Verderers, horse riders can go anywhere but cyclists are restricted a small number of unconnected trails that go nowhere and prevent safe cycling between villages. Applying the example of how to professionally manage a national park shown in this video to the New Forest would be supported widely by both enthusiasts and recreational cyclists alike. Time for change!
This is total toss.
We build of piste trails in the FOD because we have been over run by the growth in mtb and riders coming from far and wide jamming up our trails and parking wherever they can get a bloody van.
And guess what.... the forestry have advertised and encouraged this.... lines there pockets nicely.
Great informative video . I'm lucky to have a area approved near me with downhill and trail routes maintained by locals and rangers .stick to the rules pick up litter, fix any damage ,and respect 🙏
There are some really well made trails in the forest and Wye valley, with well constructed berms and jumps, often following advice from forestry managers, where they have been in contact with them for some guidelines. This "zero construction will be tolerated" goes against previous guidance received, which was along the lines of "no wooden construction", "chicken lines or rollable features" and "slow the trail down before crossing fire roads". This was sensible guidance, that addresses lots of the issues in this video. Zero building will just cause people to not listen.
Although the Forestry England volunteers do an amazing job of maintaining the trails (at Cannock Chase) they simply cannot keep up with the amount of trail erosion, particularly on the more interesting features which encourages people to head off piste. Given the increased popularity of mountain biking conntinued investment is required to keep the trails fresh and challenging.
I agree with you. Dalby is nearest bike park to us and a lot of money was given to it over the years. but they not invested in it well not the MTB trails not with volume of rider that go so that's one of the reasons for off piste trails started.
@@ceriway380 Probably the same story for every trail centre 😕
Cannock is in shocking condition. Has been for years sadly.
@@Liv3rman Nonsense. I was there a couple of weeks ago and the trails were fine.
@@michaeleaton5053 The dog with all the new smooth trails are OK but the monkey is a shadow of its former self
You should also point out that night riding in the woods should be limited. Many animals come to live at dusk and night riding disturbs them...
Hang on a minute… Forestry England tolerate unauthorised trails. The UK has terrible access rules, what we need is right to roam like Scotland. Yes digging up woodland without care is daft… however. My local trail centre is Whinlatter which is fantastic, but despite the fantastic landscape in North West Cumbria we only have one trail centre. I am unimpressed by the fact that there is so little in the way of official trail centres. Absolutely no talk on a plan to build significantly more official trails / trail centres. The problem here is a failure to respond to an increased demand for more access. In terms of the environmental aspect. Yes, keep out of SSIs, but lets recognise that most Forestry England land are in the main factory farmed monoculture deserts. Also not impressed by the self righteous “school mistresses types”interviewed… one sided, would have been better to interview trail builders with blocked out faces and hear their motivation.
I live surrounded by pockets of Sherwood Forest and the biggest damage to forests and woodland is illegal off-road motorbikes. They have trashed so many natural trails and footpaths, it’s becoming a bigger problem since the “surron” craze took off, and people calling them ebikes, when they are clearly electric motorbikes and have no place on the Forestry Commission trails.
We got some grants in ny they are building amazing 👏 🙌 stuff mini excavators and skilled builders amazing 👏 combination
Part of mountain biking for me is the nature, follow the rules don't get everyone banned that sucks. It also sucks when the authorities in charge refuse to engage riding groups. I live near Richmond park and they have zero interest in mountain bikers (tbh they seem intent to ban everyone) its a shame because a dedicated oneway trail/loop would be amazing. So hats off the forestry commission for being engaged with riders and I believe the MOD too has opened their lands with similar rules.
Another reason never go down a deer tracks, deers carry ticks they drop off onto the tracks looking for their next meal, no thanks!
This video is welcome from EMBN. But, I am often amazed to see video after video of EMBNers riding wet, sometimes muddy, trails and further rutting them out. In the western US, we have the choice of riding on dirt/clay/gravel/rock trails; so, I tend to ride all legal trails during our dry season and limit myself to gravel/rock terrain for the wet months. Some local trails and bike parks that are composed of dirt/clay have appropriate signage to educate the public about this standard.
Lol, that's because in the UK, if you didn't ride on wet trails, you'd only be riding about once a month; especially in the winter.
There is no such thing as a ‘dry season’ in the UK.
What about your ridng? I've the feeling that blocking the rear wheel in each and every corner isn't going to improve the trail authorized or not.....?? I certainly go slower, but refuse for myself this kind of riding, except on 25 %+ ramps...
Excellent video. It should be on GMBN as well!
There are a fair few good points in this video BUT official trails are extremely few and far between and most require a long drive to get there which isn’t so bad for older people with transport but isn’t god for kids and people without personal transport.
A lot of trails are in commercial forestry plantations which have little wildlife value and they’ll get trashed every few years with forestry operations. These are the places to make trails where they’ll cause the least amount of impact and the FC should be made to engage with the MTB community to allow MTB trail building volunteers to build more and better trails. We’re all tax payers and citizens and we should have a right to access our land.
Couldn't agree more, some of these commercially planted woods appear to be biologically dead.
that off piste looks way better than the 3 dot !
i wonder if anyone injured on off piste trails has sued land owners ?
I knew 1,000,000% that was forest of dean before you’s said. Isnt it rife there for unauthorised trails?
We don’t ride bikes to be safe, we ride for the thrill and to push ourselves beyond the comfort zone, otherwise life becomes boring!
Great job covering this subject shame it differs even between England, Wales, Ireland and Scotland
Once upon a time prisoners were given picks and shovels and told to dig in the ground. It was called hard labour and was a punishment. Now, digging with picks and shovels is called trail building and is considered fun. How things change.
Nice day for it Steven 💚
Build better trails then which cater for more intermediate - expert riders then!
Dalby forest is one example of 20 odd miles of boring trails. There are many great off piste runs, mostly well built and maintained.
unlike the Red trail, poorly maintained, mostly boring AND only funded by season ticket holders who tick the box 'Cycling' as the main activity. Oh, and they charge £9 to use these boring trails! They built a 'World Cup' X/C track and probably only used it a couple of years, that was a waste of money as it's mostly knackered now.
Compare that to Hamsterley Forest, where a partnership was made between the FC and local builders and riders, with good quality well built trails with the help of the FC, graded and a great mix of riding ability trails. £6 to park.
Guess where we have to travel 180 miles as a round trip to bike? I hope that you do a balanced video asking riders why the ride off piste?
those people who done tose kind of thing remaing me SOME road cyclist that are alwayas complainig about the safety on the road and when they have a bike lane well mantained, they ride on the main road, it will always gona exist some black sheeps. Then cames the others users that are trying to stop bikes in florest and roads, just because they dont like bikes. theres enough space for everyone, so be respectful and kind with the others.
This subject is complex. Biking point of view, as usual, extreme situation are balance by extreme reaction. Except GR, some historical working path and some trail in mountain stations, most of the wild trails were built illegally in France. Some are nice and smart, some others are not.
Some are smartly share with hikers, bikers, horse riders... But as usual, some egoistic people and assholes ruin this relationship regularly: destroying trail to win kom, blocking the way, complaining to authority to protect themselves from imaginary risks...
I would love more active trail associations and ecologist association informations in the french woods 👍
Depressing that yet another govt dept has to get involved!
Here Germany North Rhine Westfalia 95% of the trails are wild and illegal because only a minority is taking effort to legalize them and the government doesn't make it easier. They just tolerate it. The Trail Riders Ruhr, I club I am part of it, are some of the few clubs who try to work together with the local government.
my favorite part is when you open the gate with no bikes sign and push your bike through! LOL!!!
This video is pathetic, locals build trials to get away from the crowding the forestry has created. Trails were built unauthorised way before the forestry caught on and decided to make money from it . This video is trying to strip away the passion, pride and drive from the very people that contributed to create this amazing sport. You wouldn’t have your “authorised” trails if it wasn’t for the the people that started building them in the first place.
Is that where my fees go, putting forestry narks on sworks bikes ? Wtaf
Unauthorised…….yeah…..but they look fun though!!! 😂😂
I'm so over people talking about being safe. You have to have some common sense. But the whole idea of this safety culture has put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. Mountain biking is dangerous regardless of how safe you are. People get on a mountain bike to experience the feeling a freedom in the outdoors. The idea that being a little bit dangerous is attractive to people. The safe police have made everything suck
Bla bla bla.. nanny state control freaks. Same crap here in Ireland..no new rider is going to venture off the official trails.
Got to love the trail fairy's with there pixie shovels
fek yer red tape
Learn to spell. Then grow up.
probably defective ;)
Rules are there to be broken
No............. "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the adherence of fools" .
@@kevinshort3943 'Rules' do not apply to a man or woman. They only apply to your corporate fraudulent entity. Trespass is the only thing to consider as a man or woman. You will NOT find in any 'legal' realm the terms man or woman.
Jails are made to be occupied? Fines are made to be paid? Some old sayings are nonsensical.
So the resident sheep worrier introduces the do gooders who want to impose control and complain when they cannot control everything. There is a reason this channel has 198k subscribers and Sam Pilgrim has 1.6 million subs.
So unauthorised building that destroys the environment and damages wildlife is perfectly fine as far as you are concerned, I take it. Your language simply betrays the fact that you are a complete knob.
@@z33r0now3 Foolish gibberish. Off piste skiers take radar reflectors and safety equipment to counter avalanche coverage. It is normal practice to tell someone where you will be skiing. When riding unknown trails it is normally done with at least one other person, to distribute the risk. Fortunately for humanity there are explorers who are prepared to push into the unknown.