Part 1- How to Turbo your Cinquecento & Seicento - Engine and Gearbox Options
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Part 1 of 4 - How to Turbo your Fiat Cinquecento and Seicento.
Staring off with a proper run down of what engine and gearbox options are available, from the 899cc, 1108, 1242 and 1.4 T-Jet.
Plus I throw in as many little nuggets of information I can think off to help you decide what's the best engine to choose for your project.
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Absolutely loved this video, as a Seicento Sporting MPI owner. 53.6bhp of magic. I am a FIRE engine expert, and it is Fully Integrated Robotised Engine based on how it's constructed by robots. Even I was stunned the other day. The engine in the 595 Abarths traces it's roots back to the mid 80s. Tell me any other engine manufacturer where you can triple and nearly quadruple the power' and the gearbox and block can take it 😂
I've just found your channel, and it's making me want to get another Cinquecento Sporting. My first car was a Broom Yellow (of course) Cinquecento Sporting. The car had a few different engine iterations, initially a 1242 SPI from a P60 then a 1242 MPI from a P75. I replaced the ECU with a megsquirt ECU to control. I um'd and ar'd about turboing that engine as I'd had the head skimmed to raise the CR. I got as far as moving the radiator to the other side (where the AC rad would have been), had an oil return in the sump, bought a cracked exhaust manifold (and it had it repaired) and got a turbo from a Rover 25 (iirc) to fit to it.. and then I blew the head gasket. This was in around 2006, and the t-jet engines were not common or cheap - so I ended up fitting a 1368cc 16v from a Stilo into it.
The car was (of course) running PuntoGT front brakes and with an Uno Turbo rear disc conversion, and it was such a fun thing to drive.
Have subscribed to your channel, and will be catching up on what you've done - love the style and production of what I've seen so, very clearly presented and great amounts of technical detail :D
I love all the engine packages you had in yours ... always cool hearing how a car evolved..shame the turbo set up didn't work out. And yeah, t jets were not really an option back then..I still love a proper 8v or the early 16v's over the tjet...I can't help it, just love an 8v 😄
Good video, looking forward to the next one.... I feel quite lucky to have a 1242 8v punto 60 engine with the 6 speed box :)
Very nice..I'll be covering plenty of stuff for the SPI and MPI engines over the next couple of episodes so you should be well covered 👍🙂
Im old enough to remember when Van Aiken Developments released their Cinq Sporting turbo kit. 102hp 110lbft using a bolt on T15.
I'm old enough to have owned one when the kit was still commercially available 😁
@@wornoutracing High or Low boost? :D What about Novitech!
@kurbeco it was a high boost one. Loved that thing.
I heard the novitec kits had more issues than the van aaken ones
Fully integraded robotozized engine
Is the procedure the same in a 1108 Punto I?
It should be the same for spi and mpi engines in both the seicento, cinquecento and early punto 👍 any difference should be very small
@@wornoutracing Thank you, I have a 1996 Punto with an 8v SPI 1.1 FIRE and I'm thinking of turboing it to get more power. Can you also tell me roughly what I need to do to the engine before turboing it, so it doesn't blow up? It has 190.000km on it right now, never had any major malfunctions as far as I know
@Anatoli_Punto 190k is quite alot to then turbo it..but at the least a full service.. ideally on any higher mileage car you'd maybe replace the headgasket before turboing .. I wouldn't worry about piston rings etc if you have good compression on the engine
I was told the 1242 75 engine had larger ports in the head over the 60 ..?, also have u combined a 1400 8 valve bottom end with a 75 head if so what was tge result .?
I kept the original p75 bottom end as well..so 1242cc..it is possible to run a 1400 bottom end on a 1242 16v head but im not too sure with the 8v... as for the bigger ports on the p75 over the 60 there's a good chance it does, as 15bhp from just the cam and throttle body would be pushing it alittle
I have mk2 panda, originally a 1.1 but now has a 1.4 bottom end from a punto evo. I'm running the 1.1 head with a Newman fast road cam.
The inlet manifold is from the 1.4 engine with a rover k series throttle body and the exhaust manifold is a cheap stainless ebay job.
Really fun car to drive!
That sounds like a great set up.. I always thought there was a chance I'd go 1.4 bottom end on the turbo cinq eventually. It's just such a nice swap without having to change all the wiring etc that you would with a full tjet swap. Love you kept yours NA too
I used to drive a seicento 15 years ago when it was all I could afford and I loved it and still have lots of happy memories, fast forward 15 years and I’ve hung up my motorcycle helmet for good and need a toy, I’ve built my dream garage and bought a couple of seicentos I intend to keep one totally original and do a turbo build on the other. Thanks for the informative, well presented videos there doesn’t seem to be a lot out there in English.
Its the exact reason I still love them..just a car I had when I first started driving 20 years ago and they just got into my blood 😃 love the sound of the dream garage double garage.! A stock car and turbo car is the perfect combo. Thanks for the great feedback on the video too 👌
Thanks for this. Giving me plenty of ideas for my project car.
Thanks Simon... they have a lot of options for tuning and engine swaps but it can be difficult to know which route to take .. I'm glad you're finding the series useful 👍
Really enjoyed the video and subscribed 😀 I have a 2002 Schumacher 1.1 seicento. I am accumulating parts for a turbo build. Camshaft aside, is there any benefit to keep the 1.1 head when using the 1.2 Bottom End? I've read fitment wise it can be better.
Thanks Joe.. fitment wise it should be any different (as far as how big it is etc). If you're going from an spi 1.1 and going to 1.2 mpi then yes the only advantage to keeping the 1.1 head will be that you can keep the spi set up etc. If you're going turbo on an spi you'll still be able to make some good power ..if you're going standalone ecu then absolutely the mpi head will be better. You've got lots of choice depending what route you take 👍
Loving the vids mate - had to shelve my turbo project for now after getting ripped off on a dodgy Novitec kit by some scumbag, but still hope to do it one day....
Massive shame about the turbo kit..hopefully the next couple videos will help show how you can still turno one on a budget..or at least the options you have for doing it from scratch
there is a 1 big difference in 1.1 spi and mpi. Computer in spi is friendly and in mpi its pain in the ass.
Yeah..the mpi "micro ecu" does make conversions a little trickier
What kind of intercooler did you use ?
It's an original VanAaken intercooler at the moment...but I'll be upgrading to a bigger one next year 👍👍
I have a question regarding the 1242 swaps, it seems hard to find the engines from the mk1 and mk2 puntos now, is the 1242 from the later cars like the panda the same?
Excellent question..the honest answer here is that the later engines SHOULD be the same as far as the actual block and head design (they're still a F.I.R.E engine) but alot of the stuff bolted to them isn't the same, I believe they have a cam position sensor in the rocker, coolant pipes from the block are different, inlet design is different. It's definitely something worth researching more before you buy one..but in theory you should be able to make one work if you have all the ancillaries from the earlier engine to bolt onto one/take into account you might have to tweak a few things 👍
@@wornoutracing you don't need to use the cam or knock sensor if you keep an older ecu but a lot of the later 1.4 8v fire cars have a basic vvt setup only one cam so inlet and exhaust are advanced/retarded together (1.4 8V VVT (90 PS) 1368cc)
I don't know if they can be converted to a standard cam/pulley set up without changing the head also?
@@prawny12009 you raise a pretty good point... I still haven't had much experience with thr later 1.4 fire engines, so it's not something I can really answer... Wornout Racing subscribers do you know the answer??
MK1 1242 engine made 73 HP while MK2 only 60 HP. The main difference was the cam. 73 HP has the famous 866 cam. The newer 1242 versions like 65 and 69 HP usually come with a DBW (electronic throttle body), CAN and all the things we don't need in a cento.
Mate this has been a great series and a fantastic watch and source of info but I don't think you mentioned the size or model of turbo you can use in here anywhere
Thank you...that's great feedback to hear. The turbo runs a k03 turbo ..so just your basic vw unit..as there super cheap and spoil up well enough even in a 1.2 engine. A smaller size turbo (dimension wise) would however fit in the space a little better ..and space is tight on the front of one of these 😀
@@wornoutracing thanks for that mate just what I needed...... Quick question my cinq came with a body kit lowered 40 and 60mm and a manifold back magnex exhaust and oddly enough a full leather interior!!
But my question is do you think the exhaust would be okay with a turbo setup?
I'm gonna stick with it's 1.1 because I've had 7 of these now and this one seems a bit quicker so I'm thinking this lump should be a good candidate for boost just wondered if you might know anything about the kit on it? I can make a video to show you
But once again thanks for the reply mate I appreciate it
Cheers
Jay
@128jaydr I'd say the exhaust should be fine with a small turbo set up.. if its manifold back then you can just modify the manifold for the turbo and join that to the existing system. It'll save you time and money and unless you're chasing power there wouldn't be much need to have a bigger 2 or 2.5inch exhaust made up
@128jaydr I'd be interested to see what kit you have on it too..send me a message/photo on Instagram if you like ..I'm wornout_racing on there too 👍
Great content! Do you think that a Punto gt engine is an easy swap?
Thanks 😊the reason I didn't mention the punto 1.4 gt engine is that I don't have much information on the conversion...its been done..but with the 1.4 tjet being so available now its probably a swap that makes more sense to do...not too complicated but expensive as really you'd need a standalone ecu
@@wornoutracing Thanks a lot for the information! I think I will go with the 1,2 16v with six gear gearbox from Mark II Punto. I think that this will be an easy job. No need to convert the engine mounts right?
@@thanasisaidonis yes that's a MUCH easier job .. you can reuse most parts and if you buy a while punto then you'll have every but you need
Thank you mate. Considering to make an 899cc with AMR 500, do you think i can use 1.6 spi injector with 3 Bar external fpr? Will the stock clutch hold up? There's no alternative like for Fire engines? Thank you
The Amr500 chargers are great with how small they are, I Just went for the vw charger because of how cheap they are and how easy they are to get.
As for fuelling. Im unsure if that injectors will have the CC needed, but even if 1.6 injector is big enough, its a question of how you're thinking of controlling it? As the stock ecu won't cope. I'm leaving the stock injector and adding another (controlling that seperately)
As for and clutch , the honest answer for this is I don't know..yet!! The stock clutch isn't crazy strong, but I'm hoping it can cope with the the 70-80bhp I'd like to make, and unlike a turbo at least the power comes in smoother on a charger, so it should be OK (for a while 😀)
@@wornoutracing Hi Ben. Thank you for your kind response, it's always a pleasure to have a talk with another petrolhead like you. I want to use Ecu Master Det 3. I know VW charger are for cheap, a friend of mine bought a 1.4 TFSI charger from UK for 150 pounds shipped to Italy, for his 500 sporting. Well, i hope the SLUG will be ready ASAP, I can't wait to see the "beast". Hope the clutch will cope, because i don't know if with the same flywheel you can use the 180mm clutch from old Fiat 127 1.3 and maybe also older 1.3 n/a diesel fiat
@@fabriziopandolfi1857 thanks fabrizio.. I. Hoping the clutch does OK too haha I do need to research what options I have for making it bigger but have found a UK company that sells upgraded clutches..we will soon find out how it does once it makes twice the power 😀
Great video! Me and a friend sell a lot Of P75 parts, because here we have the puntos/ palios 75.. I sold a bunch of 866 cams, 38mm TB, Palio BOB etc 😂
Love the content, Keep going!
You're lucky to have so many pailo and puntos there..p75 are so hard to find here.
Thanks for the nice comments ...glad you're enjoying the videos👍
@@wornoutracing anything you need tell me, here we have a bunch of parts ahah
Do you have an instagram Account?
@@dvaderpt1848 yes I have wornout Racing Instagram 👍👍👍 I'm sure I can find some parts I need 😀
Just watched the video and found it useful, I've owned a few of both now and living in Florida makes me want to bring over a yellow Cinq.
What's more is I plan on dropping the T-Jet into it and then chasing all the muscle cars around here..
So I'm going to be looking for advice, tips etc etc.
I would LOVE to see a cinq driving around Florida 😁 ..the tjet really is an engine option that's harsh to not consider now they're so cheap to buy
@WornOut Racing it'll certainly standout that's for sure, especially a bright yellow one!
Biggest hurdle for building one over here is the lack of old Fiat's which parts can be used, just means having to either A) Buy aftermarket off the shelf items $$$ B) purchase the parts on ebay and hope they arrive OR C) purchase a bunch of old Fiat's and bring them over also but means $$$.
For the ECU side of things I'll more than likely go standalone and teach myself how to do that :) I have a wiring guru in my wife and the benefit of a NASA engineer to fabricate parts for me.. aka engine/gearbox mounts, turbo pluming or exhaust work.
Make sure you upload videos when it’s done! Love to see it driving round in the Florida sun.
Great video, I love the 8v engine too.
The 1.1 has a 30mm TB, 1.2 has a 32mm and the 1.2 75hp is 38mm but if you don’t have a 75 head you need to machine the 38mm TB to fit the old head.
Yeah the p75 throttle body also mounts with a metal "spacer" rather than the hardened plastic type one fitted to the sei/cinq. So yeah definitely worth mentioning you need to match the inlet hole to the tb size for it to make best improvement 👍
some 1.4 citroen ax/zx models and some peugeots use a 36mm unit
I used the 75 TB/spacer on the spi. It's just a matter of trimming the flange on the aluminum spacer and plopping it down with a paper gasket. Do keep in mind that the aluminium spacer is longer than the plastic ones.