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SDAs Answer @ReverendThunder Questions On The Scapegoat...
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- Опубликовано: 18 авг 2024
- Recently, @ReverendThunder challenged SDAs to answer a series of questions regarding the scapegoat. We have taken him up on his challenge and have provided answers to each objection.
Full live session: www.youtube.co...
0:00 - Intro
0:35 - Is the SDA Understanding Based on Jewish Myths?
9:18 - Are Both Goats One Sin Offering?
11:54 - Does Satan Make Atonement?
17:54 - Does Satan Bear Sins?
25:06 - Does the Scapegoat Cleanse Sins?
26:59 - Is The Day Of Atonement A Shadow of Christ and Satan?
#adventist #sda #seventhdayadventist #seventhdayadventistchurch #sdachurch #adventistchurch #scapegoat #apologetics
So simple and easy to understand, keep going ADL, God Bless you.
He's not going to do that! He doesn't know who you are!
@@JamieElison Why are you so blindly angry? Why the hatred? What have I done that offended you so much that made you give me such a condemning declaration? Is that the Christ you declare to follow? Because all I can see here, brother, is anger... I've learned that I shouldn't engage with hateful critics with disdain. For the love of the One who Loved me first... I'll only pray for you.
@@MajorGari you're crucifying Jesus Christ the the second time ! this time you're calling Him the Devil Himself! You can't make a worse statement in your life! You're not a brother in Christ because you don't have Jesus of Bible. It wouldn't do you any good to pray you're not praying to the Jesus of the Bible.! You've got an 1844 Levite Jesus that does not forgive you at the cross!
First of all, am glad that our critics agree that the topic of the scapegoat is an important one to an extent where they are making videos on the topic. Am not sure though if they have thought about WHY the topic is important having denied the message of the sanctuary. As far as I am concerned, it's only Adventists who are very eloquent about the topic of the sanctuary because we believe that it is present truth. Every other non-Adventist Christian teaches that the plan of salvation ended on the cross when Jesus said, 'It is finished.'
According to the Bible, the earthly sacrifices were shadows of heavenly things. Av got a couple of questions to our critics. Are they now agreeing with us that Jesus began the the atoning process on the cross where he died as the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world and then ascended into heaven to continue with that work as our High Priest? Are they agreeing that we are living in the antitypical Day of Atonement where Christ our High Priest comes out of the Most Holy Place, lays hands on the scapegoat and it is led to the wilderness by the hand of a fit man? Is this event past or future? If it is past, when did it happen and what are we still doing here on earth? Most importantly, what is the point of Acts 3:19 and also, what is this work that has been going on in the temple in heaven in Rev 16:17.
How are you denying Dan 8:14, the only verse which points to a cleansing of the sanctuary, but you still want to talk about the scapegoat which was important only on the Day of Atonement which is a day when the sanctuary was cleansed?
Let's assume for a minute that Jesus is the scapegoat; the Bible says that he was led to the wilderness which was outside the camp, by the hand of a fit man, never again to come in contact with Israel. Question: Who is the fit man that takes Jesus into the wilderness? What is represented as the wilderness in the Bible?
Do we have a single verse that points to Jesus as being in a 'wilderness' NEVER AGAIN to come in contact with Israel, the church, His bride? Have they really thought about this things? Have they talked about the whole process of Atonement or they are only concerned about the scapegoat?
Jer 4:23-26 Points to the world as a wilderness at the time of Christ's second coming.
Rev 20 says, An Angel (Jesus) takes hold of the Dragon (Satan) and casts him into the bottomless pit which will be this earth which Jeremiah says will be desolate as a wilderness at the second coming of Jesus. This is a foreshadowing of the fit man leading the Scapegoat into the wilderness.
The line of thinking that the critics used to arrive at Jesus as the scapegoat baffles me.
You can't interpret Daniel 8 to even understand the ,(sanctuary in Daniel 8)!!!!. I'll give you $1,000 if you can interpret Daniel 8 ..and have it (correct )(in the context) that it's written .. described by Jesus Christ in Matthew 24: 15!!!!!( and it matches what you say it says!
You got to remember the fit man when he comes back he's got to wash his clothes! He can't come back to the camp! The sins are taken away ( on the same day!!!!) That never happens for you! and it's never going to happen for you buy your own confession of faith! as long as you keep lying about what happens at the cross!
Pastor Elce Lauriston, Myles, and his his friends can not dispute or disprove Leviticus 16:20 because it is solid truth and a brand of fire that can not be quenched
True!
The title of "pastor" should not be placed before elce's name.
@@BibleBeliever1 Let us pray for these men. We know that the Day of Atonement is also a day we should do everything in our power to plead that God will grant mercy to us as well as them. While they are working to take believers away from the truth, they themselves will be confronted by the truth. If they truly left because they didn't understand, they will hopefully return and repent when they do. We leave them in the hands of our great High Priest.
There are definitely warnings against pastors.
{Jeremiah 23:1} - Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! says the LORD.
{Jeremiah 23:2} - Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; All of you have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, says the LORD.
{Jeremiah 23:3} - And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
{Jeremiah 23:4} - And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, says the LORD.
I can!
@@JamieElison u think so??
i'm looking at another situation where an atonement was make for the people. Numbers 16 at the rebellion of Korah. vs. 46-47 we find another time atonement was made for the people. in a sense, when the earth opened and swallowed Korah and all his family and fire came out and devoured the others who took part, this was an atonement for their sin, they had gone so far in their rebellion there was nothing more that the Lord could do for them, that they made an "atonement" for their sin by death. the next day the Lord told Moses and Aaron to stand aside so He could do with the others but Moses told Arron to take his censor among the people and make an atonement for them.
Amen, thanks brothers
Remember Jesus is all of the above. He is the priest, the Lamb, the scapegoat.. everything the priest represents and did in the old testament.. Jesus Christ the son of God fulfilled them all.
I am listening and reading Leviticus at the same time what I notice is that the S rewarded for his deeds that he has done. Notice that it was when Aaron had finish doing all the different Atonement as he was instructed to do both for himself his household and the people even for the Holy place because of the uncleanness of the people. I notice also that the scapegoat be presented alive before the Lord to make an atonement WITH HIM. ( what is the meaning of with him ).So after all these atonement was done that’s when the live goat brought in and Aaron shall lay both his hand upon its head and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel putting them upon the head of the goat and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness. This has great meaning.The time will come when Satan will bore all the sins of all those who confess their sins and receive forgiveness. Jesus is our great high priest interceding on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary at this present moment but the time will come when he will declare it is finish. He that is unjust let him be unjust still: he that is filthy ; righteous ; holy let them be still . Amen come Lord Jesus come
Knows you said if you're going to bear your own sins! And the devil is going to send you to hell for rejecting what. Jesus did for you at cross ..because the sins are on the cross (in )Jesus Christ 1 Peter 2:24 . The first goat does not bear any sin!! you said that's the Devil by what you just wrote!
@JamieElison you're displaying mental deficiency
Hallelujah
@12:12 Proverbs 16:33 shows that the casting of lot is not for a random choice. The lord uses this opportunity to divinely chose between the two. If they are both equalified qualified, a lot would not be needed, the priest could have made the decision himself.
But they're divinely picked by the by the law. But ( it's visual)! they can only see the outside of of the goat ! God decides which one pays the blood price!!! Jesus Christ is 100% God and 100% man at the same time. .Both Goats represent Jesus Christ God himself! . But it's Jesus that pays the blood ..but it's God's spirit that removes the sins Isaiah 43 verse 25. That never happens for SDA!
Amen
Atonement was also made in verse 24
Lev 16:24 KJV And he shall wash his flesh with water in the holy place, and put on his garments, and come forth, and offer his burnt offering, and the burnt offering of the people, and make an atonement for himself, and for the people.
How then did in end in verse 20?
Is there any writings that can prove that the Jewish people did not believe that Azazel since thunder is saying that it is Jewish mythology
Who did the Jewish people say that the first Goat represents... Do you think they're going to tell you it is Jesus Christ?
Should satan be punished for sins he caused others to commit? Yes. Did christ die to decrease Satan's punishment? No.
Therefore all sins of the redeemed must be placed upon satan to be borne as his own sins.
I wonder if sins of the unrepentant should also be placed on satan? What do you guys think?
Is Satan not culpable in the sins of the unrighteous too?
@@codedeethey will pay for their own sins.
@@user-be3el4sk3p and Satan will pay for his, which will include his part in the sins of others.
An SDA will go to hell with Satan. Bearing their own sins!! because they have never repented! Claiming the devil is doing their atonement!.. and not Jesus Christ! There can't be any sins (in) Jesus Christ 1 Peter 2:24! If He doesn't represent both Goats!
@@user-be3el4sk3pso who paid for sins? What did he do with the sins?
You got to remember Jesus is not even recognized as Jesus by the Jews so why do you want to use anything from Jewish teaching. He just got done telling you he doesn't want to hear this and I don't either go to the Bible stay in the Bible you guys never stay in the Bible!
The Torah is in the Bible by that logic so we not use the books that Moses wrote?
@@JonTorres-sg7yk Moses didn't say that Jesus Christ is the devil in the investigative judgment!
@@JamieElison again the sacrificial lamb takes the punishments for the sins it does not bare it the scapegoat does when in the New Testament it says Jesus “bears the sins” it means he took the punishment for those who accept his atonement in the end the being who brought sin to the world will carry the consequences with those who did not accept Jesus atonement again they didn’t “accept” his atonement.
Go to a dictionary to define the meaning of scapegoat. Jesus’s word is Truth! The devil is ‘Blamed’. Lucifer Caused sin from the beginning. He will make atonement in the end‼️
That's why we don't use a modern definition. In the bible it does not say "Scapegoat" now, does it? It just says "goat for the Lord and goat for Azazel".
Also, notice that Jesus ALREADY made the atonement, unless you telling me Jesus will die again?
@@MajorGarithe King James version says scapegoat stop lying! if Jesus a already. Made the atonement) with the first Goat) .. and why are there still sins placed on the second Goat ?if they don't exist??? Azazel is a location it's not the goat every Bible around says Azazel is a (location) not a Goat. So there's no way there can be any sins in Jesus Christ 1 Peter 2:24 by what you just said! You have just said God is a lier!
Except what you wrote there is not in the Bible give me a Bible verse that says that!
@@JamieElison the word used for "scapegoat" is the Hebrew word עֲזָאזֵל `aza'zel which means "goat of departure," and in this case translated as "scapegoat." Who is the goat of departure?
{Matthew 25:33} - And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
{Matthew 25:41} - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, all of you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Well the goats will share the fate of the devil or the "goat of departure"
@@JamieElison said "if Jesus a already. Made the atonement) with the first Goat) .. and why are there still sins placed on the second Goat ?if they don't exist???"
______________________________________________________
Let me ask you; why do sins exist today if Atonement was complete at the cross?
I'd like to have a serious dialogue with you.
These argument are terrible i see why you all never challenge the apologist you all criticize. No where does the disciples say that satan will take on our sins ...
bad doctrines and echo chambers.
What? We challenge him all the time 😆 you must be new around here.
@@AdventDefenseLeague challenging them in video and setting up a debate are totally different. That's why you're stopping individuals from debating Myles.
Where in Revelation 20 does it say that the sins are placed on the Devil???( by Jesus Christ)?.. because Jesus (Christ represents Aaron) at that point! and Aaron puts the sins on the the second Goat ( Jesus Christ does not touch the devil in Revelation 20) and there's( no sins mentioned being placed on the devil)! you've created a lie !!! you believe it ? that's not from the Bible! it's not in the Bible!. And that devil is turned free at the end of the thousand year reign.. and that is on the earth! that is not in heaven! it tells you that happens on the Earth! The Devil comes back and gets more people to follow him! how come you can't read your Bible!
Ok… build the logic yourself, show how Jesus is sent to the wilderness after the work of atonement is done.
Matthew 12:40! Those are my sins though yours are not on Jesus Christ 1st Peter 2:24. He leaves them Blotts them out..Isaiah 43 verse 25... Depth of the sea. Micah 7:19.. but yours are still going to be placed on the devil because the devil does your atonement! That is if your SDA. By the way that happens on the my( same day.) Just like the levitical law says!.
@JamieElison when you use Mathew 12:40, the part of Jesus leaving the sins in the belly of the earth is your creation, it's not biblical also, the very thing you are accusing SDAs of doing.
@@Bizos1609 it's Isaiah 43:25.... (That is the word of God.) Something you don't have! Answer the question how did The Sins get (in )Jesus Christ? 1 Peter 2:24.. And what did He do with the sins on the same day??? As the requirement is of the levitical law!
@@Bizos1609 where did I say anything about the ( belly of the earth). it's not even in the Bible! You really got to be careful when you speak ..you want to sound like you're educated .. an interpret things correctly.before you do that.
Where does it say he sent to the wilderness of the Earth? put that verse up in the Bible? God's going to send you to hell for this! do you know that! You're adding to scripture(( he's already said what happens to you!)
Verses in the Bible infer that wilderness can be defined as the earth look at the Hebrew
@@JonTorres-sg7yk I don't care what the Hebrew says I'm going by what the Bible says. The Bible says. The second goat goes to the wilderness every time! Is the Bible a liar?
@@JamieElison the Bible is originally written in Hebrew first of all🤦🏽 second when you mean the goat of azazel goes to the wilderness do you really believe the goat would survive does the word of God ever say the goat for azazel comes back?
Jesus Christ is the only one that makes an atonement that's not the devil atonement means pay for your sins and remove the sin!
But for those who don’t accept atonement will they not have to bear their own sins?
The second Goat is( never bound) ! He is set free and it's never released the second time !!. Because it was never bound! Your Devil comes back to you.! After he is released! And it doesn't happen the same day!! as Leviticus 16:10! Your devil comes back to you !!and takes more people with him. Revelation chapter 20:7,8,9,! to come back and do more damage you guys are a full of _____!!!!!!
“By their fruits you shall know them “
The first Goat and the second Goat are the same Goat! In the levitical law ..(you got a Dead Goat on the first goat!!!. ) That Goat cannot remove the the sins.. The blood pays the price!.. so He gives.( so He gives you (two goats to( represent) what (He himself does when He comes.)! Your blaspheming the holy Spirit every time you speak!
You just contradicted yourself with this statement be careful what you call blasphemy against the spirit you shouldn’t say that lightly and clearly it seems that you don’t understand the meaning of “blaspheming against the Spirit”
1st Corinthians 10:20 has absolutely nothing to do with Leviticus 16! It's not even the same topic!. You guys are not in your mind!
The lords Goat is ( both Goats... )every time you say (it's the Lord's Goat).. that is (both goats ) in other words what they represent! The first goat is dead. so to completed the ,(atonement.)!!..you have to have the second goat.( To represent what the first does.)! under the levitical law..... but when Jesus comes He does both at the same time! ...at the same time! Jesus is 100% man and 100% God at the same time.. that's why the lots are cast!!!!!!!!!! The Levites did not know which one was going to represent ,,,represent the 100% man perfect blood! That's why Jesus came as a human being! A perfect man! Paying your price.. that doesn't happen for you! God removes the sins Isaiah 43 verse 25!. God is not flesh He is Spirit!( But in Jesus Christ He represents both!)!.. On the same day. He goes to the heart of Earth!... Matthew 12 :40 Eliminates The sins as He says.... Otherwise you can't be saved! That's why you're still putting sins on the devil at the end of time!.. you didn't (believe )!!!what He did!! That's the requirement for salvation!!!!!( you're not Abraham's seed!)
Acts 17: 30 . The Truth has reached to you it's your responsibility to accept or reject. You will perish without excuses
@@justoker4275 it's you that has Jesus At The Cross! but we know you're never going to come to the truth anyway. !You have never believed in the true Jesus and you've never used the Bible!
@@JamieElison am praying God Almighty to bless you understanding of His word cause you're making vain babblings
@@justoker4275maybe like Elijah said you might want to scream louder ( to pray to your God ) so that he might hear you! because. Your Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible!
@@JamieElison do you own Jesus?
Leviticus 1610 says it is not the goat !but it is ( for) the location the goat goes to!!! stop lying and read Leviticus 1610. It either is( for )Azazel or it goes (to ). Azazel which means it is a location!!! Zechariah 14:5!. It is not the (Goat)! so just answer 1 Peter 2:24 for me! and it'll all go away .if you get it right!
So if the first goat that you say( is the devil )...because (that's what you said). in the beginning (the goat represents the devil. ).. you even put up verses (that's what it represents)... for you! (And the first devil goat has paid his blood ...(for your sins!!!)? ( Not the Christians)!!!!! just for sda...!!! then what sins are you going to place on the( second devil goat??? If it's already done !!. By the( first devil goat ???? what sins are you going to place on the second devil Goat.???. they wouldn't exist!...you've already said the (Goat) image )by Jewish folklore represents the devil!) . Can you show me somewhere where Jewish folklore. says the first Goat is Jesus Christ?
So why are their sins on the cross in Jesus Christ!. Based upon what you said the( sins can't be on the cross)! and you're calling that person the devil! 1 Peter 2:24!
You can't even know what the word (remission)! means in the Bible! by the dictionary definition! and you don't know what the word (atonement ) means either! apparently. and you don't know what the word (mediator means.? Why don't you go back to school!
You never handled anything on these videos pertaining to truth! you've never used the Bible in the context that it's written ,,pertaining to the levitical law, on the atonement !and you have never answered the question how did the sins get (in )Jesus Christ 1 Peter 2 24.? And what did He do with those sins?. If you answer that correctly ..you will know you've been lying all your life!. as long as you've been an SDA person! And there's no possible way that you are ever going to heaven and never going to be with the real Jesus..unless you repent.!