Is Seventh Day Adventism a Cult?
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2024
- A few months back, Dr. Eric Mason joined Jackie and Preston to talk about church dynamics and denominations, and it got some pushback from members of the SDA (Seventh Day Adventism) community. As a follow-up, Dr. Mason is back to have a conversation with Elce “Thunder” Lauriston, who used to be a conference evangelist and defender of the Adventist faith… until he says “in good consciousness and integrity” he had no choice but to leave. This episode covers the key SDA doctrines that are contradictory to Biblical truth.
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One thing for sure, a seed has been planted. People now know about SDA and will go and investigate. The Holy Spirit will take care of the rest
The Holy Spirit has told me to avoid any group that deviates from the teachings of Bible, will not be a Mormon, Jehovah Witness or SDA.
Amen! 💯
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. ❤
A born again person would not do that!
John 10
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
@@mauricethomas7090watch are you sure podcast you don’t have to be SDA but obey the word
Pastor Ivor Myers here. My name was specifically and publicly mentioned in this video 1:02:20 (not by the Perrys) as having been invited but declined. I can say this is not true. No invitation was ever extended to me. I am willing to chalk this up as a misunderstanding since I can't bring myself to believe that anyone professing the name of Christ would intentionally bear false witness in a public manner in a day and age of receipts. My brother Preston has confirmed that I did not receive an invitation but we have now connected, and hope that we will be able to work something out to talk with Perrys and answer these accusations. I will say of this interview that I appreciated Preston's questions and the way he followed up on certain points in the interest of fairness. To me, this humble spirit speaks volumes.
FINALLY!!!!!!! Thank God! I knew that you wouldn’t just turn down/dismiss an invitation to talk.
Praise God! I’m hoping that part 3 happens soon.
Looking foward to you coming to the show.
They will never invite SDA's to their panel. they complain that all we do is Bible Study instead of debating. They don't want us to bring the armor of God to their show because it will deliberately cause them to do a deep dive into scripture. any time people don't want to do a bible study, SDA's are not welcome.
Prove me wrong!!!
Thank you Pastor Myers! I am SDA and I don't know what kind of Adventism goes on in Jamaica! What he is saying is not preached at my church (Living Waters Worship Center of SDA Dallas)! To everyone watching......this is not an accurate breakdown of the SDA church!!! Pastor Myers please make sure that you go on this podcast to undo this damage.
Not for nothing… this comment section shows just how many SDAs love and support the Perrys 😂❤
facts! 😅😅😅😅
We do love them. I truly believe they are Spirit led. They haven’t done anything wrong, they hosted two people who shared their opinions. These opinions have no bearing on my relationship with God. My belief is in Him/Them…no one else and certainly in no denomination.
If I comment on a video of the news does that mean I support the news? No. It means I saw the video and commented on it. Don’t be silly.
😂😂😂😂
😂😂, not for nothing, SDA’s knows authentic folks….😃😄We love the Perry’s!
I grew up Seventh Day Adventist. Went to church my entire life. I'm a Christian now, but 70% of what he's saying is simply not what they believe.
Alex alot of what he is saying is public record. Some of their followers do not read the material but the fact it the information can be checked
Really? IS it a coïncidence that all adventism beliefs dérivés from Ellen G white visions.?
This !
SDAs are Christian.
I talked to a lot of Seventh-day Adventist and I have even been on the Advent Defense League show and I think this guy on the show is pretty accurate
Thank you for this episode. I am atttending an SDA church and I am struggling because certain questions started to come up. And when I ask, I don't get clear answers. My father was literally kicked out for asking questions. I appreciate this deep dive and would love a part three.
A lot of people are mad in the comments. Put your feelings aside and do some research. Listen with an open heart.
It's possible that we can be ignorant to the history of the SDA faith because it's not talke about at all.
Individual SDA members don’t represent that church. They represent themselves. Every nasty Baptist mother who brings women a covering scarf cuz she thinks her skirt is too short is representing herself. No one uses that as reason to call the Baptist church a cult.
Every member can’t answer your questions, take them to someone qualified and to the Holy Spirit.
Whoever chased your father from the church was wrong (if that’s what happened). The represent themself, not the church .
It seems as though your questions weren't answered at your church, but don't listen to a random ex SDA for answers. Do your own research. This person is incorrect. SDAs do not believe what he is accusing them of believing.
@@awntruthI’m sorry that was your experience and your father’s. Read and study and ask God for clarity.
@@iriemo721 you replied to the wrong person
Salvation can only come by a proper believeth in the deity of Christ (Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, who came to die for the sins of the whole world). If any church has that part wrong then it's a dead give away that they are teaching falsely. There's no need for a deep dive after that😊
When Preston ended with reading Holy scripture about Christ’s deity I got chills because nothing is more powerful than the Word, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us! Praise Christ Jesus, Holy of Holies!
You should watch some of my shows especially my last show but for 3 years now I've been arguing with Seventh-day Adventist trying to get straight answers and they won't give them to you on tough questions that actually confront their error
There was one show I did that was 9 hours, but I did not mean it to go that long. But what it was was that I decided to let a Seventh-Day Adventist come on and answer a couple of questions and 4 hours later my one question still wasn't answered
And I forgot to mention that the following week when I had another show he was acting like he answered everything I said when he didn't even answer the one question which was how does he interpret Daniel 8 versus 9 through 12 and I was not asking him to defend it I was just asking how he interpreted it and he kept acting very sheepish and dodging in
From an Adventist Perspective concerning the Eternal Son of God (fully God) - In the beginning He was the Word, then Michael, then and Forever now Jesus.
The disagreement is simply this... SDA see Michael as title for preincarnate Jesus (not a created angelic being). Most other faiths insist that Michael is just a created angelic being not a title for Jesus. But we can both agree that Jesus is the eternal Son of God (not a created being as the Jehovah Witness do). I think Preston missed this crucial point/distinction in this discussion which is pretty surprising. It's not a difficult distinction to understand even if one disagrees with it. Let's do better on accurately representing "the other side" please.
@@chrislucastheprotestantview Maybe the issue is with that one person
As someone who is a Christian that grew up within the SDA denomination (still am) and attended an SDA HBCU, this dialogue was lacking and unbalanced. Having taken SDA fundamental courses at my Alma mater, one of the first things we learn is that EGW’s writings are not held to the same regard as the Bible and that she was never a self-proclaimed prophet. Others have labeled her that. “I know that many have called me a prophet, but I have made no claim to this title. My Saviour declared me to be His messenger. 'Your work,' He instructed me, 'is to bear My word.’” (Letter 55, 1905; quoted in Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 35, 36).
Lol personally I grew up not even hearing much about her or hearing sermons where her writings were regularly quoted tbh. My church has always preached solely from the Word of God. Period. If anything, I didn’t learn much about EGW and her writings until I got to college. And even then, she was referenced from time to time but the Word of God was and is always central. We recognize the trinity, the life, death, resurrection and second coming of Christ (him as being the eternal God), and we honor the Sabbath as God established in Genesis and commanded us in Exodus 20 (like I try to obey all the commandments because Christ instructed us to love Him and we do this through obedience response to His love - not to gain salvation). The great controversy is discussed but literally does not inform every aspect of our faith unlike Brother Thunder alluded to. Also, he said we have our own Bible…that’s false. Someone who happens to be SDA authored it, but doesn’t mean that’s our book. Most SDA folks (especially older folks) only read KJV lol. I digress.
As aforementioned, I respect this dialogue but it was severely unbalanced and there was noticeable pride/arrogance and that honestly broke my heart. I hope that other conversations can be had in the future on this podcast that have perspectives on all sides.
Thank you! I dunno where they found this guy, but he DOES NOT speak for the SDA church, & he gave a lot of personal opinions that are not backed by scripture or church doctrine. Smh
Amen… Brother Thunder will get some thunder from Almighty with his foolishness…Lord, help him… mentioning about we have our own BIBLE 😳😳🫤🫤…He took me straight out and I couldn’t listen anymore… Stay Blessed, Bro.
Amen… Brother Thunder will get some thunder from Almighty with his foolishness…Lord, help him… mentioning about we have our own BIBLE 😳😳🫤🫤…He took me straight out and I couldn’t listen anymore… Stay Blessed, Bro.
In actual fact, Ellen said she was more than a Prophet. Did you not see that in her writings ??? not only that she is the leader of this church and the Bible is interpreted by her and through her that is the foundation of the Adventist Church whether you believe it or not.
@@GospelPwrOfSalvation give us the reference please because all I can find is her saying “I am the Lord’s messenger. I know that many have called me a prophet, but I have made no claim to this title.” “ Selected Messages,” Book 1, page 32.
So, how is she saying she’s more than a prophet when she doesn’t even call herself a prophet ?
As someone who joined the SDA church as a child and left after 20 years, I appreciate this conversation. I asked a lot of similar questions and was gaslighted/made to feel like a black sheep repeatedly. It feels good to be validated.
The people were great and I still have loved ones in the church so I didn’t leave over that. I mainly left over three theological differences, namely the following fundamental beliefs:
#13 - The Remnant (agreed that a remnant church will exist, however it's heavily implied that Sunday worshippers will all see the "truth" and become Adventists)
#18 - The Gift of Prophecy (I believe this exists, however I don't believe EGW's writings were divinely inspired. I question her medical history (high chance she was hallucinating), and many questionable figures in mid 1800s America believed God was talking to them. A lot of end times prophecy is also very American centred and fails to consider geopolitical relationships/ factors.
#24 - Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary - I'm completely unsure of how humans are to know when exactly things are happening in the divine realm. On top of that, scatterbrained math being used to explain the great disappointment (when it's been fully made clear in the Bible that no man knows the day/hour that Christ will come) makes predicting His coming down to a date/year (along with many other events related to the end times) a futile mission and one that should've never been started in the first place. God is not one of confusion, and you don't get a do-over with prophecy. The Bible clearly outlines the benchmark for prophecies/prophets given that they're messengers of God. You get it wrong once and claimed that God spoke to you is making a mockery of Him. You're disqualified after that. Basing an entire fundamental belief off of this mistake is hilarious and misguided to the very high standard of Biblical prophecy.
Peace and blessings to y’all, hope you can have another practicing SDA on so that you can directly speak to their beliefs and make the current SDAs feel heard as well
These are some other RUclips channels with a wealth of real information about the SDA false gospel: Answering Adventism, former Adventist fellowship, academy apologia, SDA Q&A
@@Jessaba yup, I’ve heard of some of these, thanks. Hopefully more people tap in as well!
The local church may not be able to answer your questions. Also, some people get defensive when they cannot answer your questions or when there is difficulty understanding where others are coming from.
The answers to all these questions are discussed on several SDA sites and in several books written by Adventists. I've heard several competent people who are good at Maths discuss these questions in several churches.
Ellen White never predicted an exact date for the coming of Christ. Her first vision was after the Great Disappointment. So she didn't get it wrong once, she never predicted it. That was William Miller before the SDA church was formed. He never claimed to be a prophet.
Regarding spiritual movements in the 1800's and other people also seeing dreams and visions, it's helpful to remember that we wrestle not against flesh and blood. Principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places are real.
To your first point, the United States of America is a geopolitical giant and influencer. Even non-religious people will agree to that. So to me it makes sense that end time prophecy will center around the USA.
But also, the role of spiritualism (miracles and the supernatural) to unite humans should not be underestimated or downplayed. That's where it becomes important to understand the history of Sunday worship (even outside of Christianity - it dates as far back as even ancient Babylon) and teachings about the state of the dead.
Remember, we wrestle not against flesh and blood and the goal of the enemy is to confuse. But God is the Divine Creator who can bring order out of chaos. God bless.
@@prayerpower1585 I know EGW didn’t make that prediction, my point was pretty clear in stating that using the mistake of the great disappointment and pivoting that into another doctrine was foolish. The answers aren’t adequate and I’m happily no longer a member of the church. Salute
@@AK-pz7om We could make the same claims about Old Testament prophecies about who the Messiah is as a being (divine or human or both), His role, and when He would come. The disciples didn't fully understand that Jesus was God until after He died. He was right there explaining the Old Testament prophecies and yet they didn't fully get it. They saw Him as mostly an earthly king. Peter correctly identified Him as the Christ, the son of the living God, yet Peter didn't fully understand Christ's mission. So because the disciples got certain things wrong, does that mean that they should have stopped studying the Old Testament prophecies and trying to convince the Jews?
The doctrine is about answering the statement in Daniel, until 2300 days then shall the sanctuary be cleansed, and studying that to see what it means. Studying that brings up questions about the second coming. Some people chose to continue to study, and some people chose not to out of embarrassment.
It was not fun for anyone after the Great Disappointment. So it's not like they received money, praise, clout, accolades or admiration for continuing to study. The lost everything materially and simply wanted to know and follow the truth. There was nothing to be gained by 'spinning' the disappointment into a new doctrine. It was an honest search for truth.
Do you have another explanation for the prophecies of Daniel and the prophecies of the second coming, that ties together all the lessons and prophecies of the Bible?
The fundamental beliefs about the second coming and the sanctuary is not based off the Great Disappointment.
All the best to you.
I’m not really big on commenting, but the last couple of days have left me feeling particularly perturbed. As someone who has enjoyed this podcast for years, I would’ve loved a more scripture-based, discussion approach to breaking down the beliefs rather than an opinion based attack as to why SDA is not a denomination. Geographical location and culture have such a huge impact on how the fundamental beliefs are understood, lived out, and apparently how they are taught within institutions. Location and culture can also play a part in how heavily Ellen G White’s writings are pushed/revered (they should be used more as Biblical commentary, not revered; but, there are extremists in all walks of life). To have a former SDA member from Jamaica speak very boldly about the beliefs of a global church, without prefacing the impact of culture and experience on understanding, feels like a great disservice, particularly when teaching about the belief system of a global church.
I don’t want to negate Mr. Lauriston’s experience. If he was truly taught the things that he said, they were a bastardization of the truth and that should be investigated by the conference, union or otherwise.
As someone who was raised in the Adventist church, matriculated through Adventist academy, and has attended Adventist churches all across the United States as well as in Northern Ireland - I can very firmly say that I have never been taught or received a word that aligns with the statements he made in this video. That’s not to say there weren’t any truths told. Growing up in academy, I had to learn church history in some of my religion courses, so I’m familiar with the beginnings of Seventh-Day Adventism and can confirm pieces of what he stated. However, some of the statements made were very clearly twisted to help Mr. Lauriston make his point (re: the "what they really mean" moments).
First and foremost we believe in the Word - sola Scriptura. This can be see at the top of the Adventist beliefs webpage. We also proclaim the deity of Christ. We don’t believe that Jesus was created, rather He is one of three coeternal persons that make up the Trinity. Per the beliefs webpage “God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly human, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God.”
I’ve had pastors, conference presidents, and even a GC vice president in my family, and I never heard otherwise on that front. Jesus is God. Always has been, always will be.
That’s about all I feel compelled to say on the matter. Looking forward to a part 3 where this can be discussed further. I’ll be going back to my lane of music ministry and focusing on how I can best serve both my Saturday and Sunday churches. Blessings 🫡
Well said!!! Proud to know you @Brianna! And yes, let’s pray for a part 3 (with a current, practicing, and knowledgeable SDA leader participating in the discussion)!
AMEN!!! This discussion was one sided. In all fairness there should be someone who is quite knowledgeable defending the SDA Church and its beliefs and the Bible in hand. This man is here trying to discredit the Adventist Church and its teachings. We as Adventists always acknowledge the Bible and its teachings as the Greater Light and Sis. White’s teachings as the Lesser Light . So right there he told a lie when he claimed that SDA puts Ellen G. White’s writing above the Bible. The Devil is a roaring lion , seeking those he can devour 😢. Again , it is not fair to have someone speaking out so boldly against the SDA Church or anyone for that matter and not allowing such persons or organizations to defend themselves. In court there is a prosecution team and defending teams of lawyers. Yes, let us keep it real .
@@barbarasteele7185but the foundation of the church is based off of Ellen G White, also the persecution of the Sunday law. There’s a lot of fear that’s inputted onto the church. At least this was my experience growing up, I never really knew who Jesus was. I knew religion never relationship.
@@jessicaacevedo4673I've been an Adventist all my life, never stopped going to church but I was doing everything my own way. I only truly returned to God in my mid-20s. I'm still an Adventist by choice. I believe that this church has the truth. But in order to see that have to find the truth for ourselves, sister.. It's both a curse and a blessing to be born Adventist.
It's founded on The WORD Jesus christ. @@jessicaacevedo4673
I’m a pastor in the Adventist Church. I’ll come on the show…
Please come and answer questions. Please do not waste our time by deflection.
@@faithmason9562your attitude is wrong from the gate. Didnt perry say that people should have religious discourse respectfully and peacefully. Your stance before he even arrive is counter to that counsel.
@@iriemo721and that’s what enables the heretics, we ought to be bold out of love, not nice for peoples feelings
@@FlockOfYahwehrespect doesn’t enable. Respect allows constructive discourse. Bold doesn’t mean disrespect, or snark. If the goal is to share light and shed light to a brother, from a place of love not a place of criticism and superiority, the attitude should align with that. Saying: then actually answer questions and don’t waste our time. I could see the neck rolling all the way over here.
Truth be told, this whole thing is a waste of time, discussing how somebody thinks one set of people live their lives and interpret their Bible. It doesn’t change money, health, or salvation so how is it not already a waste of time. They were willing to waste their time on this couch, rehearsing amongst themselves things that made them feel good. Look at us, we’re smarter, we’re enlightened.
If the Perry’s were truly interested in hearing about what sdas believe in order to assess if it’s a cult, wouldnt it make more sense to hear from actual sdas. Theres no interest in learning or hearing. Theres interest in critiquing.
Who gives the Perry’s authority to decide what’s a cult and what’s not? What’s false doctrine and what’s not? What’s not biblical and what is?
And ultimately does it matter? Does their opinion matter? If these 4 people say adventism js a cult what happens next. NOTHING. Therein lies the waste of time.
@@iriemo721 reading what you just said, i can tell your not a real Christian. It may have sounded good in the beginning with the whole being respectful thing, but it doesn’t sound like your saved. You really making it seem like SDA could potentially have true doctrine. Wow.
I’m no longer SDA, but it’s inaccurate to characterize the church as not being Trinitarian. Notwithstanding the fact that the founders of the church indeed were not Trinitarians, the official stance of the church TODAY is Trinitarian. The Trinity is fundamental belief #2, and most (if not all) current SDAs identify as Trinitarians, hence the confusion around someone stating otherwise.
That’s not inaccurate, I was shocked when I found out from other SDA’s that this is true, there are definitely non Trinidadian SDA’s
The are non-trinitatian SDAs, yes. Please join us in showing them how incorrect they are.
For me, it’s the fact that he claims he was a “somebody” in the church and was going to school for a theology degree but blatantly misrepresents SDA doctrines such as the belief in the trinity as you accurately pointed out. How then can anyone believe whatever else he has to say? A simple reading of the fundamental beliefs would prove he has deceived himself.
YOOOO....I bugged out when I heard that! I been SDA way longer then him and neva hoid of that crap. Get real Jesi vibes from this guy.
@@ltai-now there is Reformed SDA's not our sda
I don't know anything about the SDA church. What I DO KNOW is that the Lord created the seventh day as the Sabbath and commanded that we honor it, keep it holy, and rest from work on that day. Period.
WHOM was the Sabbath command GIVEN to? WERE u enslaved in Eygpt?
@@__Jenniefer__ the Hebrew roots movement also claim to “keep the sabbath”. Please don’t fall for keeping the 7th day holy proof of credibility to a religious movement.
I am a seventh day adventist as well I’d love to answer some questions too.
1) im gonna just throw that out there
Adventist means ppl that believe in Jesus’ second return. You guys can go check it out
2) sda is not a cult it is a movement. So now some people from the sda community who don’t have a clue on why they’re sda make it look like this.
Some of our elders who are very conservative make ppl think that it is a cult but just know that sda started as a movement after the « great disappointment »
3) it started with a bunch of pioneers who thought that Jesus was coming in 1844 but they were wrong… long story short then the movement started
All these pioneers were initially baptist
Name « William Miller »
4) the youths nowadays don’t know the story and I dont blame them because we have lost our way and now we’re only fighting amongst ourselves but I would say I know why I am seventh day and it is not a cult.
5) sabbath cannot save us because we are saved by grace; however if we want to take the cross and follow Jesus like he asked us to (Matt 16v24-26) then we also have to be obedient
He rested in the sabbath so we do it as a sign of obedience.
I could say more but … until next time
I’d like to ask a question…
How do you keep the Sabbath?
@@davidfarr1976great ?
@@davidfarr1976 The Sabbath is God’s gift to us, an offer to improve the quality of our life and the quality of our
relationship with the Godhead. Therefore, God does not only tell us to observe the Sabbath day, but gives
us instruction on how to do it so that the day may become a real blessing for us.
I. The Sabbath as a Benefactor
Mark 2:27 - In his love God instituted the Sabbath to benefit humankind.
Isa 58:13-14 - The Sabbath allows us to take delight in the Lord.
1 Cor 13:1-3 - We do not just keep the Sabbath because it is the day God wants us to observe, but because we love him.
II. Tips for a Happy Sabbath
1. Beginning and End
The Sabbath last from sundown to sundown (Gen 1:5; Lev 23:32; Luke 4:31, 40).
2. Biblical Advice
(1) Preparation
Exod 16:22-24 - For the Sabbath to become an anti-stress day and a good experience it
must be prepared in advance (Luke 23:54).
(2) Rest
Exod 20:8-11 - Humans and animals should enjoy rest on the Sabbath. Fellow humans
do not need to work for us. Children and youth participate in the joy,
rest, and reflection on God by if not attending school or college.
Exod 34:21 - Even when pressed by deadlines we still enjoy the divinely given
rest.
(3) Activities
Matt 12:9-12 - Jesus set an example of Sabbath keeping by having an eye for the needs of fellow humans and doing good. We serve God and may proclaim the gospel (Acts 17:2-3).
Heb 10:24-25 - We are called to attend the worship service to encounter our Lord.
Mark 1:29; Luke 14:1 - Hospitality is important which allows for fellowship with humans and
God.
Matt 12:1 - Oftentimes in nature we feel closer to God. Jesus spent part of the
Sabbath in nature.
Isa 58:13-14 - We turn away from selfishness and do things that are pleasing to God.
That includes avoiding things that rob the Sabbath of its distinctness and
its blessing such as watching non-Christian TV programs, reading the
newspaper, attending non-Christian meetings, undertaking long journeys
(Matt 24:20), selling and buying (Neh 13:15-22), etc.
III. An Ideal Sabbath
(1) Anticipation
During the week our thoughts go to the Sabbath. The preparation for the next Sabbath begins on
Sunday.
(2) The Day of Preparation
2
On Friday the cleaning of the house and the preparation of food etc. for the festive day is being
finished.
(3) Beginning of the Sabbath
Fellowship with the family or believers is important. We create a Sabbath atmosphere, for instance,
by having special but simple meals, flowers, good music, etc. We try to be creative. Without hectic
and yet in time we begin the Sabbath with a devotional, songs, prayers, and we take time for our
children (telling a story, spending time for questions, playing a biblical game). We go to bed in time
to be fresh for the next morning.
(4) Sabbath Morning
We try to create a loving atmosphere, get dressed for church, have a good breakfast, and attend
church. In church be take part in the worship service, show respect, but are open to others and fellowship with them. A silent prayer after we have entered the sanctuary may help us to concentrate
on worshiping God.
(5) Sabbath Noon
We may participate in a fellowship meal, enjoy hospitality or invite people to our home. A simple but good meal on a nicely laid table can be wonderful.
(6) Sabbath Afternoon
A nap, a walk through nature, reading good books, studying Scripture, listening to or making good
music, witnessing, visiting other people, playing biblical games with children, having meaningful
conversations may be good Sabbath afternoon activities.
(7) Ending the Sabbath
Attending a vespers or having a devotional in one’s home thanking the Lord for the Sabbath and
looking forward to God’s guidance during the new week may be meaningful.
These suggestions regarding an ideal Sabbath are not rules but suggestions that may help us to create
a wonderful Sabbath experience. By refraining from some things and doing others the day becomes a
special day, the best day of the week.
We remember: The Sabbath is a day of worship, a festive day, and a day of service. It is a foretaste
of the new earth. We thank the Lord for this extraordinary gift and do what is pleasing to him. That
will also be most beneficial for us.
The Sabbath is God’s gift to us, an offer to improve the quality of our life and the quality of our
relationship with the Godhead. Therefore, God does not only tell us to observe the Sabbath day, but gives
us instruction on how to do it so that the day may become a real blessing for us.
I. The Sabbath as a Benefactor
Mark 2:27 - In his love God instituted the Sabbath to benefit humankind.
Isa 58:13-14 - The Sabbath allows us to take delight in the Lord.
1 Cor 13:1-3 - We do not just keep the Sabbath because it is the day God wants us to
observe, but because we love him.
II. Tips for a Happy Sabbath
1. Beginning and End
The Sabbath last from sundown to sundown (Gen 1:5; Lev 23:32; Luke 4:31, 40).
2. Biblical Advice
(1) Preparation
Exod 16:22-24 - For the Sabbath to become an anti-stress day and a good experience it
must be prepared in advance (Luke 23:54).
(2) Rest
Exod 20:8-11 - Humans and animals should enjoy rest on the Sabbath. Fellow humans
do not need to work for us. Children and youth participate in the joy,
rest, and reflection on God by if not attending school or college.
Exod 34:21 - Even when pressed by deadlines we still enjoy the divinely given
rest.
(3) Activities
Matt 12:9-12 - Jesus set an example of Sabbath keeping by having an eye for the needs
of fellow humans and doing good. We serve God and may proclaim the
gospel (Acts 17:2-3).
Heb 10:24-25 - We are called to attend the worship service to encounter our Lord.
Mark 1:29; Luke 14:1 - Hospitality is important which allows for fellowship with humans and
God.
Matt 12:1 - Oftentimes in nature we feel closer to God. Jesus spent part of the
Sabbath in nature.
Isa 58:13-14 - We turn away from selfishness and do things that are pleasing to God.
That includes avoiding things that rob the Sabbath of its distinctness and
its blessing such as watching non-Christian TV programs, reading the
newspaper, attending non-Christian meetings, undertaking long journeys
(Matt 24:20), selling and buying (Neh 13:15-22), etc.
III. An Ideal Sabbath
(1) Anticipation
During the week our thoughts go to the Sabbath. The preparation for the next Sabbath begins on
Sunday.
(2) The Day of Preparation
2
On Friday the cleaning of the house and the preparation of food etc. for the festive day is being
finished.
(3) Beginning of the Sabbath
Fellowship with the family or believers is important. We create a Sabbath atmosphere, for instance,
by having special but simple meals, flowers, good music, etc. We try to be creative. Without hectic
and yet in time we begin the Sabbath with a devotional, songs, prayers, and we take time for our
children (telling a story, spending time for questions, playing a biblical game). We go to bed in time
to be fresh for the next morning.
(4) Sabbath Morning
We try to create a loving atmosphere, get dressed for church, have a good breakfast, and attend
church. In church be take part in the worship service, show respect, but are open to others and
fellowship with them. A silent prayer after we have entered the sanctuary may help us to concentrate
on worshiping God.
(5) Sabbath Noon
We may participate in a fellowship meal, enjoy hospitality or invite people to our home. A simple
but good meal on a nicely laid table can be wonderful.
(6) Sabbath Afternoon
A nap, a walk through nature, reading good books, studying Scripture, listening to or making good
music, witnessing, visiting other people, playing biblical games with children, having meaningful
conversations may be good Sabbath afternoon activities.
(7) Ending the Sabbath
Attending a vespers or having a devotional in one’s home thanking the Lord for the Sabbath and
looking forward to God’s guidance during the new week may be meaningful.
These suggestions regarding an ideal Sabbath are not rules but suggestions that may help us to create
a wonderful Sabbath experience. By refraining from some things and doing others the day becomes a
special day, the best day of the week.
We remember: The Sabbath is a day of worship, a festive day, and a day of service. It is a foretaste
of the new earth. We thank the Lord for this extraordinary gift and do what is pleasing to him. That will also be most beneficial for us.
@@davidfarr1976Keeping it Holy and reserving that time for communion with God. No working. Resting and praying worshiping eating with Jesus. Learning about Him and praising Him to. As a kid I remember the elders in my family would open sabbath with a praise and worship session and a prayer to bless the sabbath. Than we would turn tv off and rest and read scripture for sabbath school study. Only things we could watch on tv was gospel music or movies about God.😂 I loved growing up the SDA way. That time to rest and keep the sabbath day Holy taught me that God is still here above all else. It reminds me how much I need Him.
Thank y'all for being courageous enough to have & share this conversation. 🙏🏾
What’s courageous about it?
@crystal9626 revealing the truth of Ellen g whites false teachings. Many don't know who she is and what she means to the SDA teachings.
@@theway9156 It would be useful to read her writings for oneself and compare them with scripture.
@@prayerpower1585 We have, many falsities in it. Manyyyy.
I was excited to watch as an SDA who’s been following you for years, but these comments are discouraging me, doesn’t sound like a fair interview…
How could it be fair with no one to respond
Everyone they invited refused to come, people are leaving comments without listening to the video at all
@@lalittl we listened… the conversation could have been tabled until they received a response. There’s millions of adventists worldwide. They could have found someone.
@@IvyElizabeth918 Exactly. That's a poor excuse that those they invited said no. It's disingenuous. Whom did they invite, via what means, where, when, and how many people did they invite? There's no answer to that. Instead they invited an ex-SDA who agrees with their original guest. That sounds right out of the playbook of deception.
@@lalittlWho were invited that refused? Several on The Instagram post said they waited for an invite, but never refused.
One thing you will discover is a true SDA Apologist are never afraid to answer questions on what SDAs Believe...and there are plenty.🙏🏾📖🔥 God Bless.
I’m a pastor in the Adventist church and I’ll come on.
Pastor James is here. I am appalled of how misinformed the presenters are when it comes to the theological position of the SDA church. I would do a livestream this week to address some of the misconceptions outlined this video.
being sda sounds like a lot of weight that you’re not even supposed to carry
As a former SDA, it is a lot of weight! I'm so grateful to no longer be under that weight
Jesus says my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
When you've not studied for yourself, or established a relationship with Christ then one could feel just that... But, a loving relationship is Christ saying, "take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light..."
A yoke and a burden... wow, really Jesus..? Yes...
I understand what you are saying but I was a fourth-generation SDA which means I grew up learning nothing but the Adventist teachings. As Elce started on this podcast Adventist teaching left me feeling burned because it is a works-based religion. In 2020 my family and I decided to study Romans and that is when God opened my eyes and my burned was lifted. My point is your foundation/doctrines/teachings matter because those teachings impact how you read and understand the Bible. I know it was nothing but God who freed me from the Adventist teachings
Absolutely. It’s a work based religion. We have been made free in Christ. SDAs are under the bondage of the law and their man made doctrines.
I grew up in the SDA church, maybe i missed a bunch of classes, or didn't really understand what was being taught, but I don't recall the majority of what Dr. Thunder is talking about.
We believe in the Trinity, we believe that Jesus is part of that Trinity and that Jesus is the eternal God and in the words of John 1v1 as well as John 3v16 and John 14v6. Great conversation and I'd love for an SDA representative to join the chat on part 3, whether a pastor or prominent social media presence
I want to add that I am not angry and I don’t feel like getting defensive for the sake of the church, the only things I get defensive about are the teachings f the Bible and that steak should never be cooked well done, I just simply didn’t know about the things that were said and honestly find it all hard to believe, but I will say it’s possible and I keep an open mind to all convos. Thank you again to at least trying to be respectful to my church.
respectfully, i think that is the point that was touched upon several times within the video. Many members of the SDA church/churches do not understand the foundational doctrine that the faith is based on and when you dive deeper it is not inline with the word of God. Matthew 34:25 says “Heaven and earth shall pass away but my word shall not pass away.” The word of God is one of the explicit foundations of the Christian faith and if it is contradicted by ‘human interpretations’ there is a problem. Just thought i’d share, thank you for your perspective!
@@AKY3FR thank you for your perspective and being respectful, all I am really trying to say is that the churches I’ve been to and the pastors who share the word with us use scripture and only scripture. Maybe you get TGC here and there but it never contradicts scripture. I hear 2 Corinthians 5 v21 (“God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”) preached and have never ever been taught that Satan was the scapegoat. All I ever hear is that we shall get to heaven through Christ alone, Grace through Faith, and that Works without Faith is dead and I never heard of this whole looking into your past to see if you deserve salvation thing.
The evidence he brought out was damning towards the church and I do have questions, however I take it with a pinch of salt because I don’t know what was taken out of context and what is actually true. God bless you all, thank you for the discussion 🙏🏾
@@AKY3FRyou're partly lying through fam.Which part of Adventist is not in line with the teachings of the Bible?The main mantra of the Adventist church is "BIBLE AND THE BIBLE ALONE"
@@PPNComedy well at least you’re questioning it. Apparently this is on your website and this was red directly from these doctrines and if this is the foundation of your church, it makes everything else on top of it. False doesn’t sound like this is opinion. It’s actually stated as a foundational belief and the fact that, it may not be presented this way is still a problem because I would have a problem if this was the foundation of the religion that I was supporting because it doesn’t line up with the word of God and a particular church claiming to be SDA teaching it “” correctly doesn’t take away from the fact that this information is embedded as the foundation I would have to say peace out that’s like me finding out a Christian that my religion has some lady that claims to be a profit is saying things contradictory to the Bible that would be a problem to me and why are we still subscribing to this woman and why was this never discussed?
@siobhancooper4717 I get that, and I constantly have questions for the church, for all Christianity in general, but he specifically mentioned belief number 24, which from what I've read simply says those who died in Christ shall have eternal life. He also mentioned other things, but I haven't had the time to dive fully into all the points. The 24th belief just piqued my interest. And if I'm wrong, I'm willing to admit it and explore my options, I'm not married to the church I'm married to Christ and I definitely wouldn't want to follow anything that contradicts Christ's words. I have heard Michael being Jesus in the church before, that I'll hold my hands up and request answers from my elders and pastor in Bible study, but that's what we do 'BIBLE STUDY' any book which is referenced such as the great controversy or steps to Christ and so on are only used as secondary texts to help support the Bible and never replace it or be above it, so I'll continue to read and research and ask questions, but so far I'm more skeptical than believing in the words of Dr Thunder (dope name by the way)
I think its always best to have active members speak on their beliefs so they can defend their faith in a way that everyone can learn and/or unlearn biases and misinformation. Its clear many members do not agree with what was shared today and i think that should be taken into consideration. I am not an SDA but I was eager to learn about their beliefs and theological ideas.
They refused to come
@@lalittl there’s honestly no proof of that… a few prominent pastors spoke out today saying that they were never invited.
I agree 💯 about some ideas not being agreed on. I grew up SDA and I've never had any issues with the church or see it as a cult. I love my church. The pastors are great and they teach straight from the Word 📖. As I've grown in my faith I understand how people view Ellen g white and I agree with her being talked about a lot and so as I'm older I somewhat feel iffy on Ellen White now but what matters is the Bible itself and cross referencing with other denominations and scripture.
@@IvyElizabeth918 I think Preston said he invited people on Instagram. Not everyone is on Instagram.
@@desireealicea593 What does cross referencing with other denominations mean? The denominations came about because of differences in interpretation of Scripture. So how does cross referencing with them work?
Every follower of Jesus Christ needs to find out why today's Church keeps Sunday holy when He kept the Seventh Day Sabbath ( Friday Sundown to Sat Sundown ) Holy.
This!! Absolutely this! I’m so surprised no one is addressing this!
@@LeslieBest-zp9qvwhy would they? The aim is to villainise and not introspect or fairly discuss and converse.
Can you explain?
From what I believe, we should keep everyday holy (not meaning that everyday God assigned as days of rest).
Just keep every day holy
Jesus said he works on the Sabbath and was accused of breaking it all throughout the New Testament several ways. Him going to the synagogues to teach how Moses and the Prophets point to him is not keeping the Sabbath, because the Sabbath was a foreshadow of Him. The true rest giver and fufillment of the Sabbath.
I have been following and supporting the Perry's for years. I was truly disappointed to read the title of this podcast. To question Adevntism as a cult greatly minimizies the harm cults have on its victims and demonstrates click bait instead of a true understanding of the definition of the word.
I am utterly appalled at "Dr. Thunder's" comments and find them to be highly misleading and untrue. I don’t want to appear as though I am attacking him, but his explanation of his experience with Adventism made his position not surprising. Just like other large, global organizations, many factors impact one's experience and understanding.
Preston's summation at the end leads me to believe that his takeaway is that SDA's don't believe in Jesus FULLY and are not Christian. What?!?! How incredibly manipulative "Dr. Thunder" has been!
Please read the fundamental beliefs of the SDA church, the biblical references to which they are derived, and research HOW they are adopted by the world church. Also, understand that some are highly debated and not universally accepted. Like so many other things, culture, geographical location, conservatism/liberalism, etc are all things that influence a conference, local church, and individual SDA's practices and beliefs. If you haven't picked up on it yet, there are fanatics and those who misrepresent beliefs all up and through Adventism, just like any other belief system.
All of this. 💯
Well said.
Elce described himself as one who was fanatical about Adventism (not in this interview). No wonder he got confused. That being said, maybe some other fanatics led him wrong and did not guide him to develop a relationship with Christ.
As a SDA and as someone who’s always been a fan of the Perry’s . This video (especially the title lol) and the comments are extremely disappointing. I hope that in the future you guys get in touch with a real current sda and have a clear and open conversation about the beliefs. To answer the question, no Adventism is not a cult. It’s a religion just like Baptist and Catholicism and everyone else. the judgement in the comments is a little left field but to each their own. God bless y’all . 🙏🏽
My same sentiments
…and Ellen G. White is not above the Bible nor is she the center of our faith. Like you, I’m disappointed.
May I ask, what are your beliefs on Ellen White's authority? Are you familiar with the term syncretism as it relates to biblical beliefs?
My sentiments exactly, the man in the podcast went as far as to say that SDAs believe that EG White's writing are above the word of God! ahhhhh that broke my heart.
Try questioning Ellen White then see if it is a cult or not. how can you accept she is a prophet if you have not studied her? if she is the infallible interpreter of the Bible is she not then infallible? and if she is not infalliable how can she claim that the people who doubt her writings in the last days will not be saved. isn't the Bible the only standard for which all are saved? if ellen white is an infalliable interpreter of the Bible then we may not question her because to question her is to question the Bible. please watch a series called on ellen white by someone called test the prophet. God Bless
Why do still wants a non-Adventist to discuss Adventistism? Preston has been having conversations with Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses themselves. You don't discuss them with others so why don't you do the same with Adventists if you want to be fair?
Exactly this! So many great Adventists they could have invited on.
And so it begins… 🙏🏾 My prayer is that videos like this lead us to EXTENSIVE study. If you go to the Word of God seeking to only defend something you already believe, you’ll remain a man/woman convinced of your own opinion. But if you study the Bible alone with no preconceived notions, asking the Holy Spirit to make it plain, you may be surprised at what you find. 💕🙏🏾
As a former SDA I left the church
Because i just felt like everything we were taught was less of Christ centered and more of Sabbath centered
I also felt like most of the Sabbath school guides started feeling like repetition
I reached a point where i was just seeking something more than the repeated teachings
Also let me not forget to mention there's always the teaching taught to everyone in the SDA church that we are the only "remnant" church and the rest are false churches
Also one thing that fascinates me is that the SDA church doesn't believe that as believers today, God can speak to us
Also that Women shouldn't minister
But their founder was a woman 😅
I literally started having personal encounters with God when I begun to seek God because I knew there was more to God than just the Sabbath and the mark of the beast
As I started having these encounters I could not share with anyone because I knew that no one talks about this at church(SDA)
When I found people who spoke the same language as I did i thought of joining the church
I didn't know it was a big deal
My mom thought I joined Satanism
It took 2 years for her to let me leave the SDA church
And even after leaving my mom is always telling me not to play music from my church loudly in front of my younger siblings that am trying to recruit her to join my church
It's sad that that was never my intention i was just trying to share Jesus with my baby sisters
But i respected that and i stopped
So i only read scriptures with my siblings now
I know that they're safe and they'll find the truth for themselves❤
What group are you with now?
There were four founders of the SDA church. EGW was not "the founder," but simply one of them. I didn't have the experience you did as an SDA but I can understand, based on your experience, that you felt it time to leave. I pray that you are blessed in your newfound faith.❤
@@missjamerica6461 I'm now at Bread of Life Church International
And so do I go for prayer marathons at Kingdom Come Church International- This one plays a role as it picks up students from various universities every Friday for a prayer gathering
You can check out Pastor Cham Chilombo
His really helping out generation to stop normalizing that Friday is the day to get drunk and groove and teaching the importance of purity
Because now we go and get drunk with the Holy Spirit 🔥🔥🔥
@@belacheri3394 Yes am sooo blessed 🥺🥺🥺
Thank you
@@missjamerica6461 I go to Bread of Life Church International ❤️
“I’m just here, Christ is my sabbath rest”🤣I love it!
The word “rest” and “sabbath” aren’t the same type of rest.
@@CHUNIOR05 Yes it is, this is part of the problem with SDA Doctrine. The denial because Ellen G White told them so.
Yes I know right. Just go ahead and skip over that 4th commandment like it means nothing. Go right ahead😊
what verse is that again? It sounds nice ... but where in the Word can I find that???
Greetings. I’m seriously concerned.
1 Corinthians 9 states:
“24Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27but I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.”
Sis. Perry appears genuine in all the poetry and interviews and presentations that I have seen her do. The 10 Commandments remain the 10 Commandments. God’s moral laws does not change and cannot be altered. Her response about the sabbath is concerning because it seems she has made up her mind to keep the 1st day as sabbath even though God says to keep the 7th day. There is so much to say. Just going to stop here though and encourage all of us to keep her and people in general, in prayer. We are making light of disobedience to God’s Word. Jesus died for every soul and clearly we all need God’s Holy Spirit to fully surrender and be obedient to God’s Word.
Jesus is coming. We all need to be ready to stand in His presence. We do need God’s Holy Spirit every moment.
God Bless 💜
I grew up SDA and have always felt like something was off. I left the church and tried to rejoin and was met with the same conclusions once again. I have been struggling with it lately and I believe God wanted me to see this video.
Follow God, not any denomination. You don’t have to feel that something is “on” with the Adventist church. It’s not a requirement for salvation. Dont leave and come back to see what’s happening. If it feels off, it feels off. Serve god without boundaries and titles and any association other than being a believer of the one true God. Go find a non denominational church or no church at all.
Definitely, If you can clearly see the presence of God is not in a church, it’s mostly definitely a sign to seek His biblical truth through prayer and faithfulness, 🥰… the flaws of humanity limit the true impact churches can really have on our lives… Christ should be the forefront of a church! And seeing people putting themselves before Him is a clear sign to move on
Praise God. Please find a Bible based church where you can study and grow! I’m former Adventist and I go to a southern Baptist church. We have Bible study verse by verse each week and discipleship training classes. I pray the Holy Spirit will continue to walk with you and Lead you to a church that can share the gospel and answer your questions
Thank God for discernment.
Praying that you continue to seek truth and find a sound church home. 🙏🏿
Many of us who grew up in SDA had questions. I truly believe those who ask the right questions are truth seekers and will come to the same/similar conclusions and eventually leave. SDAism is most definitely a theological house of cards.
Thank you all for reading my comment and even replying. SDA churches that I went to do not have the oresence of God within them. They also raise there kids in there own funded private schools and keep us in this bubble. Every Bible study I went to and asked question I would get answers that literally don’t answer my questions. When I chose to go baptized my uncle baptized me in a pool because I did not want to get baptized into that church and I’m glad I didn’t.
I was a 7th generation Adventist. I finally read my Bible with no extra biblical (aka EGW) writings, and in context (not jumping around to proof texts). I couldn’t justify Adventist teachings and had to follow the Word, which lead me away from SDA and toward Christ alone. I’ve never regretted it, but I pray for my many brothers and sisters still locked and blinded in that belief system.
Praise God! Most of us have had very similar experiences.
Amen! Former 3rd generation SDA here, same reasons for leaving!!! Born again Christian now 🙌🏼
I've attended SDA since I was a child. I am 28 years old and till this day I do not regret walking away! They praise that woman too much. Everything is EGW,... is like they praise her more. But they'll never say it. They'll just say no Jesus first and the Bible first but their actions say different. I think at this point is the brainwash .... you ask too many questions you're ungodly, rebellious spirit. But they never have a clear answer for anything you ask. I was baptised there as well but I didn't swear about abiding her teachings. Not that I can remember. But I kept getting upset mad at how much they Preach about her every sabbath and another thing... what do yall mean by " SDA is the right, only and true religion". Basically all others is not going to heaven. 😅
Praise God for your freedom🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
What denomination are you part of now? What body of believers do you fellowship with?
I know they said they tried to get a current SDA to sit in on this conversation but this guy is speaking from anecdotal experiences.
No one in this discussion is SDA. It would be like debating Judaism with no practicing Jews present
He literally read from their own conference proceedings, Ellen White, and the fundamental beliefs. 😅
@@shottyrunkzout of context and misinterpreted. SDA’s beliefs are Biblical it’s not EGW based as was portrayed in this video. There was egregious error all the out this video.
@@07Shellywell hello, your own fundamental beliefs #18 refutes your claim.
In fact, just in 2015, your General Conference said this as mention by Elce in the video:
We reaffirm our conviction that her writings are divinely inspired, truly Christ-centered, and Bible-based. Rather than replacing the Bible, they uplift the normative character of Scripture and 👉🏾correct inaccurate interpretations👈🏾 of it derived from tradition, human reason, personal experience, and modern culture.
They also said “We commit ourselves to study the writings of Ellen G White prayerfully and with hearts willing to follow the counsels and instructions we find there.”
So no, SDA beliefs are not Biblical but rather based on EGW’s interpretation of the Bible of which there are many errors.
@@07Shellywelldo you agree with this quote for the GC. ” The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit.. GC 673.1 Great Controversy
@@shottyrunkzjust as the people were sappose to follow the councels of moses because the laws and instructions he recieved was from God is the same way we as adventist follow the councels of Ellen G white because the laws and instructions are coming from God not herself . Her writings do not contrdict the bible > the sane way that the other prophets councels did not contradict what God has said . If you actually compared what she wrote you would see that it aligns with scripture. If you follow her writings you would be a better christian i promis3 you. By the way did you do the prophet test instead of just coming to the conclusion that shes not a true prophet?
Also the bible is above the Ellen g white she even says that . We use the bible to confirm that what she is saying is true if anything contradicts the bible then we would not regard he mr as a true prophet.
But her writings acts as a magnifine glass also it shows us CLEARLY what is already written in the word of God . The principles that are in the bible already are just magnified in her writings . God said believe his prophets and you will prosper.
Before you knock Gods prophet consider her first and test the the things that are written .
The more I listen...the more I am thankful for the exposure. Jesus will be glorified. Remember I said it!
I'm glad you said this.Totally shocked that all the Adventist pastors and even members refused to come to the show😂😂😂. Someone isn't being totally truthful here I promise
@@dabreez2489 If you believe that, you have believed lies my friend. The truth will come out soon enough
@@dabreez2489 both Pastors David Asscherick and Ty Gibson reached out when part 1 came out and neither of them received an invitation. Pastor Eric Mase told Pastor Gibson to DM him on Twitter but he was unable to because they weren’t following one another.. does that sound like an invitation to you?
@@lincolnliking and I will bless the Lord and rejoice for the truth always.If anything Adventist people would grab the opportunity to come and talk about their beliefs.This gentleman literally claimed we don't believe Jesus is the eternal God.That he was told to focus on the money and ignore his questions about the truth??If anything that's the complete opposite of what I was taught and what I am currently teaching others as an Adventist but please do make sure you scrutinize your guests before inviting
@@dabreez2489 I wonder who said any of this to him.. from what I know, Adventist pastors are the absolute lowest paid clergymen of any denomination 🤣 especially in Jamaica.. the individual churches don’t keep their tithes and offering. So what financial gain would he really have? Many pastors work an additional job to make ends meet.
Please consider these leaders of the faith that I believe will be more than willing to have a conversation: Debleaire Snell, Wesley Knight, Jamie Kowlessar, and Myron Edmonds. I think it does the sda faith a disservice to not have PRACTICING members of the faith to get to the true intention of this conversation. Peace & Blessings❤
Thank you sis
I think Ivor Myers would be awesome. He says that they lied by saying that they invited him to be on the podcast.
As well as randy Skeete
...but have you checked the aforementioned sources yourself to see if these claims are true?
Thank you… Please consider these pastors
Ivor Myers from Power of the Lamb Ministries commented on the original video saying he wanted to come on the show.
That is one who would not shy away from speaking the truth!!!
@@simplysarab1625 I’m not sure of this but I think that Elce’s presence shows that they wanted a debate to happen and some pastors and apologists are not interested in that. If you want to learn are beliefs, sit with one and let them talk about the beliefs from scripture and not go through a rabbit hole of quotes taken out of context which is what critics love to do. It doesn’t edify the viewers or Preston who is learning about our beliefs.
@@jwesKeys exactly! I thought that was the work of an apologist, to debate a controversial subject. Everyone was in agreement in this video 🤷♀️
@@simplysarab1625An apologist will show truth from a Biblical standpoint. No need to "debate" scripture. For GOD says whay HE means and means what HE says.
@@simplysarab1625 Some apologist do debate but not all of them. I think some have discovered that debate is not the most edifying way to discuss one’s beliefs and on this platform, it would not be the best way to share our faith.
It’s not just the doctrines that we have that need to be accurately share, it’s also the humanity of the person sharing it. When you are labeled as a cult, it’s important to not place yourself in a position that can get lively or seem heated. Critics like Elce (I’ve noticed) try to include in warranted insults when engaging Adventist. I witnessed this in my first discussion with him not too long ago.
I grew up in the SDA church then went to the world. I came to a point in my life that brought me face to face with the question is there a God? Then, which God and it took me through Hinduism, Islam but finally rested on Christianity. Then I wanted to know which church is following God and it brought me back to the SDA church.
Believe it or not, Ellen White was the easiest for me to accept when I looked into her. You may ask how and why? because I had to work through what the Atheist say about the Bible and the attacks on what they say as false prophecies and plagiarisms, etc.
What I found was that many of the same arguments Atheists used against the Bible and its' prophets were the same used against Ellen White. This doesn't in itself mean Ellen White is a prophet but as I looked closer at the arguments and worked through them with the same process that allowed me to accept the Bible and its' writers, I found Ellen White was cut out of the same cloth with her predecessors.
I'm in the SDA church not because of Ellen White but because God led me to study the word and to find that the teachings of the SDA church is true. I love my brothers in other denominations but I stand here as an SDA ready to defend my faith with the SCRIPTURES ALONE because I've studied for myself and believe it through the word of God.
If we have a discussion in any belief, I don't need Ellen White's writings to back me up -- All I need is the Bible. However, many here judge her from afar. I challenge you to read books like Pathriarchs and Prophets or the Desire of Ages and see for yourself if she lifts up Jesus.
God bless!
Amen!
Yes. Thank you for your testimony. The Desire of Ages brought me closer to Christ. Someone else said if you want to know if she was an upright person, read her biography to see how she lived her life as a Seventh-day Adventist Christian.
I'm really appreciative of these videos as an SDA, it reveals to me how much I need to study my Bible to be grounded in my faith. Without the first video, I wouldn't have gone deeper into my studies of Leviticus 16 (scapegoat), my journey to choosing the SDA faith and why I believe it’s the closest to practicing the Biblical truths of the Bible, and why I believe Michael is Jesus. Sometimes we need to see other individuals' points of view to become more grounded in what we believe. That's what conversations are for, to share information.
I do pray for the individuals in these programs. I am not really surprised that the SDA church is coming under attack for the Biblical truth it upholds, and that will happen in the last days, which we are in currently. My prayer for each person watching and participating in these videos is John 17:17, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” May we test every opinion, belief, and information to the Word of God and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us all.
Have a blessed day!
Proverbs 23:23
“Buy the truth, and do not sell it, also wisdom and instruction and understanding”.
Amen
Amen
Absolutely, it only draws me closer to Christ, His word and His truth. We must be able to know God's word for ourselves.
Amen. That was very well said.
Unfortunately Michael is not Jesus. That is absolutely heresy.
Pastor Doug Batchelor & Pastor Ivory Myers please
Hi Brother
As someone who was raised SDA and have been questioning Adventism for over a year, there are three things I need to say:
1. The seventh-day Sabbath doctrine is not unique to Adventism, nor was it “discovered” by Adventists. Various Christian groups have kept the seventh-day Sabbath since 33 AD-wayyyy before Adventism even became a thing.
2. SDA eschatology is also not unique. There are plenty of non-Adventists who believe that a Sunday law is coming and that keeping the Biblical Sabbath will be the final test of God’s people before Jesus returns.
3. What is unique is the whole Ellen White thing. The Adventists who tend to consider her equal to the Bible (not above the Bible-but because they believe she was inspired by God, the words she wrote are inspired like Paul’s words were inspired) can *sometimes* transform into culty fundamentalists. But there are many, many Adventists-especially in recent years-who are seeking the truth, are Gospel-based/Gospel-motivated, and have been 100% convicted about the Sabbath because they’ve been convinced by studying the Bible, NOT Ellen White.
A prophet is subjected to the prophets before, because their credibility is based on their agreement with the prophets before them.
"And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets." (1 Corinthians 14:32)
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isaiah 8:20)
Hey so if you listened to the podcast, eschatology and the sabbath were not the major focal points to call it a cult. The major doctrines discussed were from the great controversy that states Jesus being Michael the archangel, that Satan was jealous because he was elevated to being God, so that the Adventist Jesus differs from the biblical Jesus. Also the investigative judgement, that Jesus is currently going over the records today in heaven that goes against Jesus’s atonement for sins once and for all on Calvary, and lastly that Satan is the scapegoat that the sins of this world falls on him on Jesus. Please go back listen closely. The great controversy written by EGW is the backbone of the Adventist faith (the current sabbath school lesson is all about it). So you can’t extract Ellen from SDA. Her writing is the core. And her writings and prophecies are false prophecies therefore the whole thing is false.
well said Emily but one cannot be Adventist without accepting the teaching of Ellen White as currently formulated unfortunately, thus if you share the conviction of studying the Word of God and you find what Ellen says does not align then you are not Adventist and not saved to them
Yet we do not teach, nor does Sister White teaches under inspiration, that Jesus was a created being, a being with any beginning. My bro Elce is making a lot of inference, but it's just not true. (We both were at NCU around the same time, but I was an IT student).
“In him was life; and the life was the light of men” (John 1:4). It is not physical life that is here specified, but immortality, the life which is exclusively the property of God. The Word, who was with God, and who was God, had this life. Physical life is something which each individual receives. It is not eternal or immortal; for God, the Life-giver, takes it again. Man has no control over his life. But the life of Christ was unborrowed. No one can take this life from Him. “I lay it down of myself” (John 10:18), He said. In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived. This life is not inherent in man. He can possess it only through Christ. He cannot earn it; it is given him as a free gift if he will believe in Christ as his personal Saviour. “This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17:3). This is the open fountain of life for the world.
[1 Selected Messages pp-296.2]
@@christinafarmer9184 with that statement then the Calvinist must be a cult too because John Calvin believed Michael is the incarnate name of Jesus. And this was 200 years before SDA. What about the Lutherans? named after who? their founder wrote many books too, also inspired by the Holy spirit. Would you consider Lutherans cults. many of their doctrines align with SDA. What about the Jewish nation that made an official statement the scapegoat represents Satan? The SDA is being challenged and we will gladly accept any challenge without even using EG White.
I was raised SDA and left the church after studying the Bible for myself. I appreciate y’all for this because I believe God is in the process of exposing everything that is not like Him and many people who identify as SDA need to see this.
I am curious, what specifically made you leave the SDA Church?
Really curious what it or the many things that you saw that didn't line up?
Yes what did you see?
@@kethibqere fundamental belief 24 that talks about Christ’s ministry in the heavenly sanctuary is not biblical. investigative judgement is not a biblical concept and to say that in 1844 Christ entered the last phase of atonement is blasphemous because atonement was completed when He rose from the grave. that belief alone is heresy because it is essentially saying that Christ dying and resurrecting was not enough to save us and that He now needs to complete investigative judgement to finish the job which is not true or biblical. that alone is a huge cause for concern because Jesus finished atoning for our sins when He rose from the grave.
additionally, the concept of the great disappointment in 1844 isn’t biblical because the bible says that no one knows when Christ will return, not even Jesus knows but only The Father knows that (matthew 24:36) so for William Miller to calculate when Christ would return isn’t biblical because nobody is supposed to know that. and I believe Hiram Edson, the man who said he heard from God that Christ moved to the most holy place in 1844 instead of coming back, thought he heard that from God but it was just something to cover up William Miller’s error in prophecy about Christ’s return. overall, “prophesying” about Christ’s return, saying Christ needs to complete investigative judgement to finish our atonement, and believing that going to church on Saturday will save us from hellfire are things that made me leave. I learned all this years ago way before this video came out so all of this is from my
own research.
You can lie, misrepresent, name call, and slander, but that will never change the reality: Jesus Christ is the eternal God part of the Trinity, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savoir, I am saved and justified by faith in Christ atoning blood, I am sanctified by the Spirit, the Bible and the Bible only is my rule of faith by which every doctrine and individual is tested including Ellen White, God's moral law has never changed, the seventh day Sabbath is validated by the full authority of the scriptures, there is a Judgement before the second coming in which God will judge every work "with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil", humans are not immortal and the righteous will receive immortality at the second coming, the righteous dead are sleeping in their graves awaiting the resurrection at Christ second coming, and daily I must "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". This is what makes me a Seventh Day Adventist.
As soon as you have a human professing to correct the infallible Word of God there is a problem. I think members of SDA should take that into consideration. This is not about the Perry’s, Dr Mason or the individual that is sharing what the Adventist church has posted for ANYONE to find. It’s about what is true. Nothing more. May God reveal it to you beyond offense.
As an ex-SDA just want to make a slight correction to your statement - Ellen g white doesn’t claim to correct the word, but more so to “shed light/provide context” to it. She claimed to have had dreams about various insights.
Either way she was a fraud so it doesn’t matter lol. She had a brain injury in her youth and I personally believe that she was hallucinating. The people around her claimed that she stopped breathing for hours and held a Bible up for 3 hrs straight as proof that she was experiencing something supernatural. It’s wild when you look into it and many SDAs are ignorant to it.
Lots of people in mid 1800s America believed that God was talking to them.
Where do you see EGW corrects Gods word? What source are you referencing this from?
Listen to the quote again. The quote never said she corrects the word of god. It said she corrects misinterpretations of the word. Read for understanding.
@@iriemo721 Hey, just so you’re aware, writing “read for understanding” comes off as condescending. I have a genuine question. If you have a source, please share. Thanks.
@missjamerica6461 Investigative judgement and scapegoat theory are a different Gospel. Gal 1 8-9 says if anyone teaches a different gospel let them be condemned.
Also the complete heresy teaching that Jesus is michael.
Col 2 16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,[d] puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
This scripture is a direct rebuke to the teachings of SDA. Please read the bible and throw away your man made rules and regulations. Your eternity depends on it. Flee from this false church and come to true freedom in Christ.
On a brighter note thanks for putting a spot light on the Adventist Church... What the enemy meant for eveil God will turn it around for good!!!!!!!!!
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Hallelujah
AMEN 🙏🏽
Who is the enemy in the case those not Adventists? lol
@@villain2374 the enemy is always Satan and his demons ..for we wrestle not against flesh and blood.
Greetings. This is from SDA Pastor Ivor Myers:
Somebody send this message to the Perrys.
"Brother Perry. I don't know if you will see this. This is Pastor Myers. I am here for part 3. It was brought to my attention that you said you had invited several SDA pastors to come on to your podcast to address SDA beliefs and that none of them took you up on the offer or responded, and I believe that my name was mentioned as one of those pastors. If I was was one of them, I never received such an invitation. I was told by several people you were going to reach out to me, but that reach out never came. if I missed it, my bad. But I am making this public in hopes that you see it and that others will bring it to your attention. I will reach out to you and your wife on all your other platforms as well. I am interested in having a cordial and respectful conversation with you and and sister Perry."
………and their guests.
Thank you for the respect you guys have towards this discussion in order to arrive at solid truth instead of bringing other faiths down, Perrys! As a SDA myself, I'd have to say that i dont identify with the Adventism Mr. Lauriston is presenting though...
I am of the same mind. The lessons he was taught are not consistent with mine unfortunately...
Really thats bécause Its engrained in Ur doctrines
@@charnelallan7159 helloo! may you please explain what you mean by that? because what I'm saying is that what Mr. Lauriston is saying about what we Adventists believe isn't accurate to what we actually believe. For example, we do *not* believe that Jesus was a created being, and nor did Mrs. White. thank you and I hope you have a good day!
I haven’t read through all of the replies to your post, but if no one has recommended it yet these are some RUclips channels with a wealth of real information about the SDA false gospel: Answering Adventism, former Adventist fellowship, academy apologia, SDA Q&A
Okay, so how many types of Adventism are there? Also, If you do not subscribe to foundational doctrine that is publicly stated on the official website of the SDA organization, what does that make you?
Imagine judging a man by merely interviewing his ex.
So true. a wounded ex could never speak the truth about the man. She is an ex for a reason.
Nailed it
I know! These guys are thunderously wrong!
I would go so far as to say that it is a cowardly act!
Imagine being SDA and not reading Elce Thunder Lauriston’s 3-volume book series Hiding in Plain Sight.😅
I am a Christian and currently a member of the SDA church.
I have been really blessed by the Perrys’ ministry from P4CM days. I love the fact that they are so passionate about living authentically for the Lord.
I think Preston gave a good example of what it means to be humble, fair and teachable in this episode. We should all aim to be like that.
I think it would be a great to have a current SDA pastor to speak on this topic.
I submit two names:
Pastor Ivor Myers
Pastor Dwayne Lemon
The late Nefernitty was mentioned in the beginning and she even did a series with these pastors explaining what we believe with just the Bible.
There is so much to say on this topic but I hope we all continue to humbly search the scriptures for truth and grow closer to Christ every day.
Nefer nitty was sadly not a true Christian. SDAs are not true Christians. They have a totally different gospel from mainstream Christianity.
Adventists are not Christians
@@deus_vult8111 ok
I'm a SDA and wish you guys would have invited Ps Eric Walsh or Prof Walter Veith.
The Lord will surely make His Word/truth known! I believe. Let's keep praying. 🙏🏽
This was good conversation. My only comment is to Pastor Mason. Whenever something was spoken that the SDA’s believe, I would encourage the refrain from downing them with, “that’s crazy.” That does not bless. It conveys superiority. So, as a believer, we are admonished to structure our words. It is about understanding what they believe and as Preston spoke, then, we can come together and get an understanding.✝️
This reads overly sensitive.
People don't want anymore of these videos where people just discuss one denomination without the denomination being discussed not being there. Its time for roundtable discussions not reply videos
Did u not hear them say their offer to invite a SDA member on was either DECLINED or they received no response at all???? 🤦🏾♀️
@@AmiaP91 of course
A fact.
Im not SDA but ive never DISAGREED with The Perrys’ more.
I have friends who are SDA,have attended church with them many times,and the cultish indicators spoken about on the podcast do not exist here in Africa.
Sounds like the doctrines are not cut across.
The doctrines are cut across. Just because you may not hear it when you go doesn't mean it's not there
This is their official doctrine. You are deceived. They try and snatch christians from the truth. That's why they are subtle.
I am a third generation SDA. Jesus is part of the godhead, equal with God the triune God. Never is Ellen White above the Bible. Ellen white fully human never taught as infallible. Please Get someone who knows what they are talking about
This, respectfully.
Exactly. I agree. Ellen G White received visions from the Lord.
Prove it. Bring the receipts
Exactly! Bring An SDA Who Actually Knows And Studies The Word Of God.
Ellen White IS an infallible interpreter of the Bible according to SDA's
As a SDA …. I’m disappointed that there’s an only an “ex-SDA” on this episode. This can cause a lot of confusion…. I would’ve waited until someone accepted the invitation to come on who is a current SDA Christian to do this episode.
The guest was a SDA evangelist for YEARS, who studied SDA theology on the highest level and has even written three books on the matter. May I ask what makes him unqualified to speak on this topic? Have you considered that his studies led him to see all of false teachings (teachings that are contrary to what the scripture teaches) in the SDA denomination?
@@fedcon4218 That's outrageous! You mean just cause one man studied a demonation for years and wrote three matters on the matter every word that comes out of their is to be believed. Tell me how are you still Christian in a world full of athiest, agnostics and ex-christians who speak bodly against christianity? Your thought pattern is severly flawed, find another way to look at it.
You’re in a cult!
They addressed that at the start. They said they'd be willing to have a Part 3 if an sda representative stepped forward. You have to understand that in new media you have to strike while the iron is hot. You cannot wait an extensive period for someone to step forward. Their viewers had a pressing concern and they chose to address post-haste
@@AndreWalsh93 ahhhhh thats not nice. 🤣
Great show. Would love to chat. Not from a place of defense but mutual learning. I’m not a bonafide apologist but I do love apologetics and am an Adventist with an honest open perspective. Hope this does not get lost in the shuffle. Keep the conversation going!
The Jamaican Guy is big capping! The Sda church do not operate like that
exactly ... but how will anyone of the dissenters know that ... unless you know the TRUTH!
He's not lying I'm Jamaican and my experience is the same. You'll have to experience this to believe it.
@@shaneikbrown733I just commented under someone else’s comment and said that I do believe our cultural nuances plays a major part in how we move throughout SDA denomination.
My husband's family is SDA and my kids go to SDA Bible school. Having grown up Baptist, I do not go to an SDA church but it has been truly a blessing for my kids. They've learned so much about the Bible, and school is like a big family, teachers that actually love their students. So putting my kids from public to SDA school as a non-SDA, I only have good things to say.
What does that have to do with their doctrine, remove your feelings from the facts. I grew up in a SDA, what do the kids being good and the ppl being nice have to do with the denomination being founded on heresy. All that is a masquerade.
That’s a great testimony. And yes, nice churches can leave a good impression. The good thing, our teachings are solidly based on the Bible. The absolute vitriol against the sda church ought to tell you something. If you decide to investigate, text everything by the Word. Just as you wouldn’t go to a Christian turn atheist to know what Christians believe, better not to get from former sdas what sdas believe. It tends to be skewed. Seriously skewed. Hope to demonstrate this soon in a hopeful part 3.
@@powerofthelambU said better not go to former sda's to know what sda's BELIEVE? REALLY pastor Myers.
From the comment section alone proves most sda's are unable to DEFEND WHAT THEY BELIEVE. THE MOMENT U POSTED A COMMENT THEY LATCHED ON REQUESTING U DEFEND THEIR TEACHINGS. THEY r only able to régurgitate what THEY here from the pulpit , WITH inability to répond to the many eronious socalled truths THEY WERE fed through prooftexting of SCRIPTURES .
@@powerofthelambNOONE needs to talk to an sda to know what ur doctrines teach. It Takes one CLICK THROUGH UR MANY OFFICIAL PUBLICATIONS.
TELL ME why is it ur issue WITH People WHO have escaped adventism not fit to statère what u teach?
R THEY now oblivious to adventism doctrines non that THEY left ?
Wasnt PASTOR Thunder equipped as à conférence evangelist to lead his flock, And not just à mère individual sitting in thé pew?
What l'âme excuse.
I say pastor Elce is extremely equipped to tell the world of adventism heracies since hé evolved from the same scholarly level. Peace
Imo SDA is the main denomination that knows their bible front to back.My mom can pull out probably 40-50 verses off the top her head. Growing up they tried drilling us with learning a certain amount verses each month. So when ppl say we put egw above the bible it sounds ridiculous. Do some ppl use her writings in that way sure. Bad adventist exist just as much as bad baptist or evangelicals etc. Growing up i consistently heard ppl say read the bible for yourself and thats what u gotta do.
God knows the reason why this discussion about Adventism keeps surfacing, and if it encourages viewers to seek the truth of the Bible, then praise God for it! But let all Bible-believing Christians, regardless of denomination, be careful that at the end of all this debate, the PURPOSE is that CHRIST is preached, and viewers are compelled to follow HIM. 🙏🏾🙏🏾
That is a good way to look at it.
We will be held accountable for what we say!
Amen! God will never destroy anyone who worships him on Sunday. That is not in the Bible.
Please read the Bible! God desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Much love🌻
•Ty Gibson
•David Asscherick
•Ivor Myers
(3 possible speakers)
Blessings🙏🏽
Randy Skeete
Doug Bachelor
John Lomacong
Ex-adventist will never have anything good to day about Adventist. Simple!
@@divinelyannointed3401 Ellen White is a demi-god in the church, I know this from experience. you are ostracized viciously if you disagree with her in any aspect. she is the infallible lesser light that leads infalliably to the greater light; a distinction without a difference
He specifically said Ivor Myers declined to join the conversation.
@@eijahholness337 Ivor made a statement on Facebook, he did not get the invite therefore he did not refuse the invite.
@@eijahholness337, Ivor Myers is in this thread of comments saying he was never invited.
I appreciate the disclaimer that they gave that they’re not trying to “bash” SDA but one of Mr. Eric’s opening claims was that “THEY work in stealth” making a blanket statement about all Adventist. Sounds like bashing to me.
From what I am understanding from this conversation and the pointed comments, what Brother Thunder is speaking to is the doctrine of the SDA church. The comments are saying that they have never been taught that.
Let me pose a thought: your school teachers. Teachers who went to school for education learned Maslow’s, Freud’s, and Webb’s teachings. These things show the teachers deeper knowledge of how to teach. And believe it or not, it is heavily encouraged in the school systems. Does that mean the students learned the same thing? No. What the students did learn was the result of whatever principles their teachers used to teach them. Same thing in this conversation.
Maybe in a SDA church, you aren’t taught the doctrine of Ellen G White, but it is clear that one or more of her teachings were a major influence in the cultivation of Adventism. Perhaps what Brother Thunder speaks on is the deeper knowledge of the foundation of the SDA church. You as a subscriber to the SDA church may not learn the doctrine necessarily, but the way Christ is taught to you will completely influence your faith. Idk, just a thought.
You summed it up 100%. As someone that was born into the SDA church and is now really understanding the beliefs, the things he said may not be directly taught in the church by the pastors, but they are still core beliefs that shape the way the bible is explained. I never knew a true relationship with Christ, there's a lot of fear when you come to understand what the doctrine really teaches. Some members like my family, have book cases full of E.G White's writings. My family would study her words carefully because they said that church had become watered down.
My friends that grew up in the church, but didn't have a family that was so deep into E. G White writings, thought that we were mainstream Christians that just went to church on Saturday, but I always knew it was different, and it didn't sit well with me.
The SDAs in the comments are so combative, it's sad and very telling.
@@SundropletThe SDA church was never meant to be a mainstream Christian church. That is for sure. If it was supposed to be that it would not have been established in the first place. I guess we could say that about all protestant denominations. Elce Lauriston misrepresents the SDA church teachings though. I'm sorry that so many SDAs and ex-SDAs are reporting that they never knew a true relationship with Christ. As an SDA, I wonder how and why that is.
I’m still a fan of your podcast, but I’m disappointed by this episode as an SDA.
Ellen G. White is not above the Bible nor is she the center of our faith. Look up the SDA Sabbath lesson studies and study them. They are Christ centered.
Read the book of galatians and flee this false doctrine and other gospel.
The current Sabbath School lesson is based on the Great Controversy, EGWs book.
The Spirit was not given-nor can it ever be bestowed-to supersede the Bible; for the Scriptures explicitly state that the word of God is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. Says the apostle John, “Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1. And Isaiah declares, “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” Isaiah 8:20. GC vii.3
Our faith, and our position in the world as commandment keepers is based on the Bible. Never should the Testimonies be brought in to take a high place than the Bible. EA 141.4
The more we look at the promises of the Word of God, the brighter they grow. The more we practice them, the deeper will be our understanding of them. Our position and faith is in the Bible. And never do we want any soul to bring in the Testimonies ahead of the Bible. Ev 256.3
Born and raised SDA, a lot of misinformation in this video, but the biggest one being that we aren’t trinity focused??? Huh?? That’s literally one of our 28 foundational beliefs… I’m so confused lol
All truth should be able to withstand scrutiny with boldness! I was raised SDA and recently rejoined in 2018 after being in a Baptist Church & Presbyterian since my 20's. I love our church so much!!! I'm a bit embarrassed that our leaders have not answered. 😔
Do you know for sure, if you were to die today, where you would spend eternity?
@@Elizabeth-rk3do Yes of course I do dear! Jesus said it very clearly!
I have pasted the ACTUAL words of Jesus to help you:
Mark 16:16
" He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
17 " And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues"
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(Also found in Luke 24:50-53 )
19¶
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
Some SDA leaders/pastors have in fact answered and offered to have a conversation including Pastor Ivor Meyers who was mentioned in this interview. There are also several others in the comments.
They have. Ivor Myers and others on this thread, Ty Gibson in many messages and emails to offer to come on the podcast.
I love that this conversation is happening, but it lacks integrity. It's important to have a current SDA member or pastor there. Otherwise, this isn't a forum to speak transparently. It's a place to air out grievances about SDAs. Note: I am not SDA. I am someone who values conversation from all sides.
‼️‼️‼️
I grew up SDA and as ive grown older (now 24) and gotten closer to God and reading his Word, i now rethink the SDA church and beliefs. I grew up learning about Ellen G white and my mom and family members have her books and i will say in my personal experience my church has been very bible driven but there is mentions of Ellen as a reference to scripture and growing up even when i was young, i always felt it was weird to mention her alongside scripture and this just affirms where i stand with that. However i still hold the Sabbath and that particular belief but will stick to the Word of God and cross referencing scripture when i study. Thank you for this conversation. It opened my eyes more and makes me wanna dive deeper into the faith i grew up and learn more about God through his Word. God bless ❤✝️
Thank God for your commitment to His Word. Keep seeking His truth!
Hey sis! Don’t let one belief that you personally like to practice keep you in a heretical belief system. Pastor Mike Winger has a great video that says this (women veiling). No matter what you say, you cannot divorce EGW from Adventism - in practice nor doctrine nor theory. I pray that God will reveal the truth to you.
I am a 5th Gen Seventh Day Adventist. Why would Tunder lie so much if he had truth?
From Ellen White
The Spirit was not given-nor can it ever be bestowed-to supersede the Bible; for the Scriptures explicitly state that the word of God is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. Says the apostle John, “Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1. And Isaiah declares, “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” Isaiah 8:20. GC vii.3
Our faith, and our position in the world as commandment keepers is based on the Bible. Never should the Testimonies be brought in to take a high place than the Bible. EA 141.4
The more we look at the promises of the Word of God, the brighter they grow. The more we practice them, the deeper will be our understanding of them. Our position and faith is in the Bible. And never do we want any soul to bring in the Testimonies ahead of the Bible. Ev 256.3
What did Ellen White say about the pre-existence of Christ? The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? What did she believe about the gospel?
“The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by him as his right. This was no robbery of God.”
“Here Christ shows them that, although they might reckon His life to be less than fifty years, yet His divine life could not be reckoned by human computation. The existence of Christ before His incarnation is not measured by figures.”
“From all eternity Christ was united with the Father, and when He took upon Himself human nature, He was still one with God.”
But while God's Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding his preexistence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with his Father. From everlasting he was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted him, were to be blessed. ‘The Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God.
“Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.”
“From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, ‘the outshining of His glory.’”
“The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi. He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel, ‘whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.’ Micah 5:2”
“There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.”
“The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.”
“Those who proclaim the third angel's message must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post, in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word, “It is written.” Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones. The man who takes God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.”
“Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfilment of the covenant that God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, with His Son, and with His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then co-operate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf. Doing this you will reveal to the world the principles of righteousness.”
“Those who are baptized in the threefold name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they have forsaken the service of Satan and have become members of the royal family, children of the heavenly King.”
“The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God.”
“The Sacrifice of Christ as an atonement for sin is the great truth around which all other truths cluster. In order to be rightly understood and appreciated, every truth in the Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, must be studied in the light that streams from the cross of Calvary. I present before you the great, grand monument of mercy and regeneration, salvation and redemption,-the Son of God uplifted on the cross. This is to be the foundation of every discourse given by our ministers.”
“The cross of Calvary challenges, and will finally vanquish every earthly and hellish power. In the cross all influence centers, and from it all influence goes forth. It is the great center of attraction; for on it Christ gave up His life for the human race. This sacrifice was offered for the purpose of restoring man to his original perfection; yea, more. It was offered to give him an entire transformation of character, making him more than a conqueror.”
“Never should a sermon be preached, or Bible instruction in any line be given, without pointing the hearers to “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29. Every true doctrine makes Christ the center, every precept receives force from His words.”
“No discourse should ever be presented without presenting Christ and Him crucified as the foundation of the gospel.”
“The study of the incarnation of Christ, His atoning sacrifice, and mediatorial work, will employ the mind of the diligent student as long as time shall last.”
“On the cross of Calvary, Christ made a full and complete atonement for the fallen race. He died because of our sin. This was the only way in which we could be pardoned. Holiness is the fruit of Christ’s infinite sacrifice in our behalf. It was not for His friends, but for His enemies, that Christ made this sacrifice, for those who He declared would not come to Him that they might have life, for those who chose earthly pleasures and earthly riches. He longs to save those who have given themselves up to the world. He calls upon them to choose His service, to give themselves wholly into His control, to wear His yoke, and learn of Him how to be meek and lowly, how to do God’s will. “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus; who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God; but made himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name; that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
“Jesus is our atoning sacrifice. We can make no atonement for ourselves; but by faith we can accept the atonement that has been made. ‘For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God.’ ‘Ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, ...but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.’ No man of earth, no angel of heaven, could have paid the penalty for sin. Jesus was the only one who could save rebellious man. In Him divinity and humanity are combined, and this was what gave efficacy to the offering on Calvary's cross. At the cross, mercy and truth met together; righteousness and peace kissed each other.”
“If the cross does not find an influence in its favor, it creates an influence. Through generation succeeding generation, the truth for this time is revealed as present truth. Christ on the cross was the medium whereby mercy and truth met together, and righteousness and peace kissed each other. This is the means that is to move the world.”
Preston, I appreciate your posture and desire to learn and ask questions. Interview current Adventist pastors, theologians, and biblical scholars without Dr. Mason. He’s not bold, he’s hostile and motivated by misinformation. He guided the whole conversation on YOUR podcast. This wasn’t “With the Perry’s” this was Dr. Mason trying to prove he was right with the outlandish things he was saying in the previous interview and on his reel. That’s pride. Humbly seek to learn the truth and I think you’ll be surprised how much you agree with. It’s not all “crazy” like Dr. Mason kept insisting.
Now,I will agree with the bit of hostility of Eric Mason. I almost feel that’s his personality. But I’m not sure. It’s the posture on the couch 😂😂 He has that little lean and head tilt lol Those comments got to him. Lol
This comment is spot on! Mason and Elce have a history of how they deal with SDA doctrine. I'm sure Perry's are unaware, but you have rightly said, this was certainly not WITH THE PERRYS. This was with Mason & Thunder.
I peeped the same thing about his demeanor from his initial response to the comments on the first podcast episode about cults. There’s definitely a bias that shapes the conversation so it’s important to be careful. The Perrys, have a large platform and I am praying for them to continue in discernment of who they give access to.
Just like Preston would engage Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons 1:1 on his channel, this conversation should have the same level of care and approach to be fair.
@@msnoel10exactly. You can’t bring someone with an obvious and clear agenda.
AGREED!!
Ima SDA and pretty well known within our Faith. I’d be glad to come on your show and clears some things up and bring a little joy and fun to the conversation. I appreciate the respectful approach to the conversation but dang we can loosen up a little bit lol
I will say there is there’s a huge difference between the SDA people/ culture in 2024 than in previous generations. Let’s talk about it…
But if yall aren’t following the historical foundation of SDA, then why still call yourself SDA? It sounds like yall are switching up the principles as time goes on…almost like yall realize they were not grounded in Truth… If I was an ex- cake baker from 10yrs ago vs a cake baker in 2024…that doesnt change the founding principles of how to bake a cake…so him being ex SDA shouldn’t take away from the principles of your faith ?🤔
The comment section isn’t the place to address your questions. The comment section isn’t the best place to address anything lol. But if I join the show I’ll be glad to address in depth your comment. Have a Blessed day!
@@tiad.9142SDA means believe in SEVENTH day sabbath and the ADVENT - second coming of Christ. Where should people who believe in those two things worship?
@@iriemo721 I see your trying to break the term down but SDA is a religion and every religion has foundational truths/doctrine. This is what I’m referring to…why not just change your name bc people who speak of SDA being a cult are basing it on the church history surrounding SDA…if yall have denounced that history then just say so vs making people out to be liars 🤔
@@iriemo721 you can worship in any Bible-believing congregation. The issue isn't sabbath-keeping or Saturday church attendance.
it's about *salvific* sabbath-keeping and the unbiblical doctrine of Sunday "sacredness" and the idea of a false (or EGW's favorite word -- "spurious") sabbath forced upon everyone via the Sunday Law that will be enforced on pain of death both temporally and eternally (Mark of the Beast). It's ludicrous and a gross perversion of Revelation 13 and 14.
Most Christians do not believe this, which is part of the reason Sundays tend to have the largest sporting events in the country -- almost nobody is treating it as sacred. Most of us take a Romans 14 view of the Sabbath and believe everyone should be convinced as the Holy Spirit leads.
Not saying YOU feel this way, but I know many lapsed SDAs who -- even though they drink, smoke, use various substances, scam, out here living any kind of lifestyle in terms of sex, etc -- they limit or outright eliminate these things on the Sabbath... as if the Sabbath is the ultimately determining things in terms of salvation! This is a warped way to look at it, but several of these folk do feel that way, and for the sake of transparency, when I wrestled with some of these issues 20-odd years ago, I also refused to some "dirt" on the sabbath... but once sunset hit, the mask came off and it was back to "doing me". The Sabbath became an idol to me. it's that way for others too.
We have to be honest with ourselves and really acknowledge if we're trusting in Jesus ALONE for our salvation or *anything* else, including "law-keeping". ALL have sinned. ALL are law-breakers, so unless you believe you are able to become sinlessly perfect and can stand before God without a mediator as EGW taught, then we have no choice but to fall on His grace and mercy. This is not cheap grace I'm advocating. It's pistis i.e. believing faith and allegiance in the living King - the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and HIS complete sinlessness to cover us. As I read the scriptures, there is no other way.
I find it hard to believe that of all the thousands of practicing adventist in the US, you guys only could find an ex Adventist from Jamaica. Not even a practicing Jamaican Adventist??? 😮 We may be fewer than I thought then 😢
I said the same thing.. there are millions. I can’t go anywhere )in the US or otherwise) without running into someone who is Adventist.
Because they weren’t interested in hearing about why adventism isn’t a cult. Of course a former member is gonna provide support for their claim. It’s a biased POV.
They never said they couldn’t find any SDA. They said couldn’t find members of SDA that were willing to come on the show…please try to listen to what’s being said and not what you want to hear.
Also for these kind of discourses you need to have people that are well studied in their doctrine for it to be effective so yes this was all they were able to get on their podcast right now.
@@lvzyours But that's the point they are making too. Most SDAs would gallantly stand up to defend their faith. so for them to say they were "ghosted" and no one responded is not true. I actually have seen a video on youtube of one of the responses were Preston commented and the people actually responded to Preston's comment saying they were willing! I guess he missed that response too.
To me that would be the best person to bring light to the Adventist faith. Plus you must’ve missed the part where it was explained they ask current members of Adventist to come on and give their beliefs of the practice and doctrinal teachings. They all declined. Why? If this what you believe to be the truth why not out and explain your stance. 🤷🏽♀️
I’ve been following you guys for years, have admired you for so much, purchased merchandise, tickets, this is where I draw the line. I’m so saddened by this. As an SDA there is so much misinformation in this video. I don’t even know where to start.
Just start please! Want to hear what you have to say. I was ONCE SDA!
They are just the messengers for truth. People want to dispute with this men are saying, but the fact is this stuff is doctrinally written under the SDA Church, and if the foundation is falsehood, then we can’t call it truth I thank God for the Perry bringing things like this to light, the fact that Ellen White exist is problematic. The Bible says it is a finished work the fact that somebody came along in the 1800s and claims to have had a vision or a dream and comes up with 28 principles or anything else foundation, and tries to connect it to the Bible And it contradicts it is false and at the foundation of something is false. Then you must question all the rest. The Bible stands alone. It doesn’t need an Ellen White or a Joseph Smith from the LDS or a watchtower from the Jehovah’s Witnesses anytime these religions have a separate person that comes out after the Bible and they put their information in print and connect as a supplement to the word of God you already know that that’s a false hood right there again thank God for the, these gentlemen, truth, and people are mad at the passengers the things that this man was reading out of those 28 principles he only got through a few of them and they all contradicted the word of God and the fact that any SDS don’t even know this is problematic, thank God for the truthGod gets it to us however he can and our job after that is to make the correction. Thank you again Preston.
@@gratefultrust it is too much to discuss via a comment section reply. Thanks
@@natashamartin2014wise. Nothing to discuss, especially with people not interested in hearing.
I want to understand! I’m so confused.
SHE IS NOT ABOVE THE BIBLE!!!!!!
Adventist do not believe Ellen White is above the Bible.
Exactly and Adventist speaks blatantly that she is just a prophet and her readings do not supersede the bible ever ever.
AND NEVER WILL BE
Ellen White??
Does anything she wrote go against scripture?
I grew up SDA and I left years ago led by the Holy Spirit to do so and I do not regret it. Something was always not right, and something is still not right and no matter how you slice it, there are things in SDA that should draw concern. Based upon what God showed me and what I learned, I could not and would not ever go back to their belief system/teaching. Judging by the comments some of us have had more detrimental experiences than others, and there are extreme situations and I am one of those people that experienced the worst. Allow the Holy Spirit to guide you. Either way, I’m glad to be a believer in Jesus still and I’m glad he led me out of the deception and lack of truth that I was in. I am still recovering this day from things that I experienced. I’m glad they talked about this. I love the Perry’s and great job to Dr. Thunder for explaining this so well.
How about giving the SDA Pastor the room to talk just as you have given this brother the opportunity to give a false witness as to what the SDA church stands on.
they declined
I pray that as you watch this show you know and understand that you this is someone's opinion. I pray that you read the Holy Word of God with guidance from the Holy Spirit.
Thank you for this, I felt pretty disheartened as an SDA after this
@@wandiletshabangu5456 please don't feel that way. The message and truth is getting out. Study and prayer for discernment. When we see this is someone's opinion. They need to bring Bible facts to the table especially when comparing to someone's writings.
@@claudettehendrix3501 Yes the truth is getting out! More and more people will finally be able to see the lies and falsehoods of Adventist doctrine and Ellen White
You guys should have a panel of SDAs to have a conversation with because this is not it at all.
Oh yes it is. I know personally and have attended SDA church for years. They don't preach the gospel.
@@susanma3483 Why did you attend for years then? & Have is present tense which means you still go so which one is it?
5:43 they actually addressed your request for a panel here. Did you watch the pod in its entirety?
The sda they reached out to refused to come
@@tracyakinade I saw you comment that a bunch of times. Obviously, I’m requesting it again.
Ellen White wrote: “The Bible, and the Bible alone, is to be our creed, the sole bond of union; all who bow to this Holy Word will be in harmony.
“Our own views and ideas must not control our efforts. Man is fallible, but God’s Word in infallible. Instead of wrangling with one another, let men exalt the Lord. Let us meet all opposition as did our Master, saying, ‘It is written.’ Let us lift up the banner on which is inscribed, The Bible our rule of faith and discipline.”
The Review and Herald, December 15, 1885 (Selected Messages 1:416.)
And we know Ellen White contradicts herself and lies. Because the karaites never kept that calendar that you guys claim and I proved it in a video that it is a complete lie. I keep the Sabbath myself plus I keep Passover and no one I know except that calendar
YET she said if we do not read her writings we will basically be in trouble with God.
@@ltai-nowplease advise which of her writings said this please? I’ve never read that thank you
@@NikkiallsmilesIt's from Selected Messages 1:416 as the poster wrote. All her writings are freely available publicly on the EGW estate site.
@@prayerpower1585 Thank you. I will look this up
I’m trying to figure out how Christ being my sabbath rest interferes with the Sabbath day.
It means we don’t have to keep it.
Pastor Kerwin, it doesn't. 😂
@@chrisgood2gowhy would you not keep what Jesus kept.
Why would you not keep it? Didn’t Christ give the Ten Commandments? Are they done away with. Should I kill and steal, lie and cheat?
James 2:8-12 KJV
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. [12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
@@chrisgood2gorun yourself ragged for the world then. If Jesus himself too a sabbath rest, who am i to deny myself that gift.
How come the other 9 commandments aren’t abolished?? Just the sabbath is foolishness and void now huh? Jesus died and only abolished the one?? That’s wild.
@@iriemo721 Read the entire book of Galatians you will get a better understanding of the new and old covenant. Then go back and read acts Romans and Colossians. Take your time. Then read Corinthians and Hebrews. Take all the time you need. You will understand that we are under a new covenant and the Sabbath is no longer binding
I have a list of Adventist who will be more than happy to join you all in this conversation. It would've been nice to hear both sides of the argument. Truth will always prevail!!! If you want a reason not to believe in something you will always find one. This has definitely left a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to the Perrys. Learn from the source not from 3rd parties!
AGREED
How isn’t this both sides? Dude provided a whole history of SDA and their doctrine and how they made it to that point.
@@preciousnunya5541for example if you want to know about someone you don't just go to the bitter ex.. this is the same as an atheist learning about Christ for the first time from another atheist who use to be a Christian...make it make sense
I was a baptized SDA member. I haven’t gone to SDA church in about 10 years. I was always uncomfortable with EGW being inserted everywhere. I used to question the church leaders about this issue. I also remember asking about the fiery furnace in the book of Daniel and the pastor told me the fourth person was the angle Michael who is believed to be Jesus. I also remember asking about other Christians speaking in tongues and it was dismissed as something that’s not needed. I believe there are many genuine people in the church. Many of my friends are genuine but idk why they don’t ask questions. The biggest issue I had with the church was their fixation on the teachings of EGW on the book of Revelations. Almost all the conferences I’ve attended were on this topic. Fixation on the beast message doesn’t attract non Christians and even for me I got nothing out of it. SDA I found is limiting and doesn’t allow one to experience the love of Jesus, experience the blessing that is to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Thunder’s “explanation” about the Seventh Day Adventist believe concerning Michael is thunderously wrong. How could this man even claim to have been a Seventh Day Adventist and be this ignorant? Obviously facts don’t matter. First falsehood was that we believe Jesus Christ and Satan were basically “brothers” (taking that from what Thunder said). Jesus Christ never had a beginning and will never have an end. Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are one from eternity. 1 John 5:7 Jesus is the I AM “the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob” that appeared to Moses. Jesus is “the Almighty”.
Yes there were different individuals that did not totally understand the Trinity. Ellen White was not confused and believed and fought for the doctrine of the Trinity. I believe that one of the main reasons for her ministry was to advocate for the truth in this matter. “Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.”
“From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, ‘the outshining of His glory.’” (I will have more quotes from Ellen White concerning this at the bottom)
Satan was created by God. The Bible says, “Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.” (Ezekiel 28:15) When Satan rebelled Jesus says “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” (Luke 10:18) “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” (Revelation 12:9) Christ defeated Satan at the cross and ultimately Satan will be destroyed in Hell Fire.
Concerning Michael the Archangel Revelation 12:7-10 says, And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, (8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. (9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (10) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Here Michael and “His angels” are fighting against the devil and the rebellious angels. Micheal is leading the battle against the devil. An angel is not leading this charge. Many angels rebelled against God and joined the devil. We see that in the reference “and the Dragon fought and his angels”.
Jude 1:9-10 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. (10) But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Here again fighting with the devil.
Another reference to “His angels”
Matthew 13:41-43 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; (42) And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (43) Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Described as “His angels” just as in Revelation 12.
In the Bible Jesus is called by other names to emphasize a point such as Emmanuel, “True and Faithful”, “Prince of Peace”, etc.
Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Here Michael is referred to as Daniel’s “Prince” which means “Lord”. An angel is definitely not Daniel’s Lord. If Michael and Gabriel were the same why didn’t he say “I am your prince”. The name Michael means “Who is like God?” Psalms 113:5 says, “Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high,”
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Here the “voice of the Archangel” and “trump of God” raises the dead. An angel cannot raise the dead by his voice. Jesus is the Resurrection and Life.
Jesus says,
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
It is blasphemy to call Michael an angel. The Bible never called Michael an angel. The word “Archangel” in this context is clearly pointing to the Divine One that created and “reigns over the angels”.
In Exodus chapter 3 it says “And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him” But clearly in the context it is not an angel but the Lord God. “And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.” (Exodus 3:4-6) Context is very important.
The Jesus that I worship is self-existent, eternal, the I AM, the Almighty, The Prince of Peace, our Redeemer. Read Isaiah 9:6,7; John 1:1-3,14: Philippians 2:5-11, Colossians 1:17; Matthew 1:21; Matthew 28:18-20; (Revelation 1:8) “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”
Growing up SDA and doing my own research everything that Bro. Thunder said is true but what I can is that in 2024 most SDA attendees can not even articulate anything that Bro. Thunder say if asked themselves.
A lot of SDAs do not know the church history. Or the SDA exclusive term mentioned today. This was a learning video to all.
But there are still many traditionalist. I know traditionalist SDA that are upset because today's SDA preachers do not teach the old doctrine or Ellen White.
But SDA in America is a lot more liberal and don't associate with Ellen White as much vs the World While Church.
Anyway, God is calling His people into the light. He is kind that way.
Everything bro Just hinder said is not true. One error is that Ivor Myers was not invited therefore he did not decline an invitation. Thats just ONE error😮 there are plenty others. That one has been confirmed in the comments so I started there. SMH
well said @Mika_T_0317
Alot of them are lost. Because they don't know much. They know what's in their church what their pastor says, what EGW SAYS. that's it. So ofcourse alot of them under this post is going to disagree and say it's not so in their church... but every church is also doing their own thing
It was thunderously false.
@@becomingsasha a lot of Christians and people, in general are lost. This is not unique to the SDA denomination by a very long shot.
Unfortunately, there has been a free, unchallenged, biased, error laden attack on the beliefs done by these two brothers.
It would seem that the most appropriate direction would be to allow the same for Adventist Apologists to present the Biblically sound things you disagree with.
You don't have to, but would only right and fair. Every belief can be support Sola Scriptura.
This Eric Mason guy is trying to prove his point, that SDA is cult what did you expect if he was about the truth he would have invited an Adventist apologist!
May I suggest that you invite Pastor Doug Bachelor, Fitzroy Anderson from Midnight Cry Ministry and Pastor John Lomacan. They are easy to find. They are excellent teachers
And Advent Defense League
David Asscherick! Ty Gibson
They aren’t interested in being taught. It’s easier to take the POV of someone outside of the church.
@@deontemcken I see you deonte... I have been posting ADL all day...
They appear to be genuine, but I don't believe that they are. Ye shall know them by their fruits. There have been many names given them who we all know, would never decline to come on here. But they didn't reach out to those people. U have to ask yourself, why?
This podcast legit brought me to tears. I really love both Preston and Jackie's teachings. I've taken a ton of notes and I've been telling everyone about how much I want to read Preston's book. But now to hear my denomination be called a cult because of distorted evidence can only be described as heartbreaking. I’ve learned so much from yall so I'm not inclined to stop supporting the channel but I would really encourage yall to reach out to current SDAs. Ryan Day and Dakota Day are SDA brothers with a podcast called "Day by Day" where they talk about the faith. Ivor Myers (SDA pastor) commented on the last video that he'd be interested in speaking with yall. I'm sure if yall reached out either of them would talk to yall.
Hello. Newbie Christian here just started reading the Bible. I also really enjoy Preston and Jackie’s teachings as well. Why do people feel that your denomination is a cult?
@@AtiliaThomaswatch the video and see.
People feel that way have skewed views of the church. You can see some of their claims in the video. A person who doesn’t believe it’s a cult can’t BEST tell you why people believe it’s a cult.
Some of the reasons I’ve heard are
1. Because there is a human founder for the church whose writings are still viewed with respect. The writings are in no way counter to the Bible. Just spiritla thoughts from a human being. No different than when TS Jake’s wrtes a book.
2. Because there are some doctrines (the concept of investigative judgement) that other denominations don’t necessarily ascribe to. The same way some people read the Bible and believe people go to heaven when they die. Well, some Adventist person read the Bible and based on how they interpreted what they read, they felt there was investigative judgement.
3. The church encourage a plant based diet. Well we know folk don’t wanna give up their nasty bacon, so anything that is opposite of what I’d would want to do, I’m gonna call it a cult.
4. The concept of sabbath. Again, we know folk don’t wanna give up their games and social events. So any church that’s that restrictive gotta be some sort of cult.
@@iriemo721as an ex-SDA myself you aren’t telling the full truth re: #1 & #2. To the original commenter, here is what this person is trying to say:
#1, Adventists believe that the writings of Ellen G White were divinely inspired. That means those writings on par with that of Isaiah, Jeremiah and other Biblical prophets. You’re underselling it by saying her writings are simply “still viewed with respect”.
I question her medical history (high chance she was hallucinating), and many questionable figures in mid 1800s America believed God was talking to them. A lot of end times prophecy is also very American centred and fails to consider geopolitical relationships/ factors
For #2: The Great Disappointment (Oct 1844) was scatterbrained math being used to explain the great disappointment (when it's been fully made clear in the Bible that no man knows the day/hour that Christ will come) makes predicting His coming down to a date/year (along with many other events related to the end times) a futile mission and one that should've never been started in the first place. God is not one of confusion, and you don't get a do-over with prophecy. EGW didn’t make this prophecy, it was William Miller who disassociated from the church and died in disgrace. Why SDAs made it part of their fundamental beliefs (#24 re: heavenly sanctuary), I have no idea.
While every SDA may not believe in every fundamental belief, that is the official position of the church according to the general conference. I left the SDA church because I didn’t believe in these and couldn’t answer for them
@@AK-pz7omand that’s what I feel like it boils down to. These people keep saying to speak with “current” teachers…when we are pulling from the historical foundation of SDA…if you don’t believe in the founding principles then stop calling yourselves SDA!! Simple
@@tiad.9142 bingo. But tbh I think it comes down to that fact that people are scared to have their beliefs questioned, because then they start to doubt the whole thing. They’ve been taught that if it isn’t Adventist, it isn’t right, to look at Sunday worshippers as backsliders/not knowing the full truth/lesser, so for them it’s SDA or bust. It’s low key brainwashing tbh
Wao... Never wouldve thought that the Perrys would take time to go after a denomination..., a group of ppl trying to share the gospel (like methodists, like baptists, like church of God you name it), a group of people trying to direct people to the bible so that the Holy Spirit can do he's thing, to expand the kingdom of God.
Thats why its so hard for non believers to believe in Chirstianity, because AMONG US, we go after each other... "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” But we rather, talk about each other. We are actually harming the body of Christ. Sad Sad...
Thank you for having this conversation. ❤ It definitely helps everyone to stop and really think about what they believe in, whether they agree or disagree.
As soon as the video started, i knew it would be one-sided. So can we here from a sda pastor too
To be fair the reason why no current SDAs are in this video is addressed @ 5:44. I look forward to a part 3 with some current SDA members because there was a lot of false info mixed in with truth from Dr. Thunder.
That was probably a lie. Until there’s proof of a declined or ignored invitation, it didn’t happen.
@@iriemo721 Why would he have reason to lie.... They probably declined because they internally know that they are wrong and would not want to face truth
@CAMphotography_
At least two pastors on instagram said they never decline an invitation... in fact, they are there letting the whole social media followers know they are up for dialogue. Ivor Myers also stated he was open to a conversation. Not sure what's happening, but its suspect.
@@msladymack1960 Good to know thanks for sharing. Maybe those 2 pastors arent ones that were invited? Not sure but Preston re issued an invitation at the end of the episode so I am interested to see what happens
@@CAMphotography_listen. There was a clear agenda here. So there is reason to lie. WHO did the claim they reached out to?? What names? So they can be questioned directly as to why they didn’t show up.
One thing to note is that North American SDA is quite different culturally from Caribbean SDA.
I love how Jackie just sat and listened. Continue to study Gods word and let the Spirit lead you sis.
Yes!
Yea, she was quiet the whole time
Whose man is this? Why not get a practicing Adventist to speak for the Adventist church
I grew up is the SDA church and have experienced the SDA life style in California, Michigan, Maryland, and Jamaica. In fact, my mother used to be a professor at Northern Caribbean Univerity in the late 80s and early 90s before the university decided to regress back into a more conservative and traditionalist campus. Growing up in Maryland going to SDA academies, The Great Controversy was not the primary forcus of my christian education. When I went through baptismal class I was taught about the tenants of the church but it was not central to the course. I also did not have to make any affirmations in regards to the church's tenets prior to baptism. I grew up learning about the Trinity. I also have never heard of this SDA bible Elce mentioned. While going to school the scripture was only taught using the New King James Version or New International version. The differences in the way the church teaches about the doctorine in regards to scripture are different all around the globe. This is because the SDA church is an institution, and an institution is a sociological entity. It is subject to its cultural influences. Thus, the SDA church is ever changing based on culture and moment in time. For example In the south of USA you will see SDA churches worship services looking very similar to what you would see in a southern baptist church which a lot of SDAs from places like Jamaica or Ghana would view as demonic bases soley on Ellen White's liturature.
Elce Thunder is speaking about a portion of the globe which has a very conservative culture that has decided to teach about Christianity in a very regressive way based solely on Ellen Whites teachings. Speaking only from this viewpoint only shows you a portion of what the SDA church is today and how it views Ellen White in regards to scripture. I could go on and on about the structure of the SDA church, but this comment is long enough as it is.
I say all this to say that to imply a denomination of Christianity is a cult is a very heavy, serious, and reckless claim to make, one that should not be made simply because of grievances. The Christian faith, in general is a faith filled with grievances because Christianity is an institution that falls to the flaws of humanity. The formation of the Christian Church was based on a struggle for power. This is why it important to teach individuals about how to create a relationship with God rather than to connect their identity to an institution so that we grow critical thinkers who are active in the church, who can point out flaws, and contribute to nessesary changes in the way the Bible is taught.
A cult is an anti-social community that uses any means necessary to retain members, by shrouding its teachings and operations in secrecy and most importantly by isolating its members from family and the outside world. A cult does not adhere to government authority and will challenge its government into maintaining its power and authority over its members.
None of these traits can be attributed to the SDA church. The SDA church is an open institution with a global network of schools, hospitals, and it is an active presence in society. I'm pretty sure Elce was not being held in the church against his will.
This is with the Perry’s, not with whoever wants to complain about how they approach conversations on the platform that God gave them. Remember, you can address this topic however the Lord leads you on your own channel. Stop criticizing people who are trying to open things up for discussion. Preston clearly said that he would welcome an SDA to come on the show.
This is a public platform where opinions will certainly be shared. When a group of people feel mis represented on a platform such as this, it is understandable that they will respond. This is the second video they’ve done on this topic. The response to the first came from adventist on the platform. One of our well known Adventist Pastors commented on that video saying that they wanted to come on and talk so I highly doubt that they reached out to him and he declined it or didn’t respond.
Sure. Maybe you can help me understand what the point is of following and/or watching people whose teachings we don’t agree with? If we’re being honest, many are in their flesh and looking to argue and debate.
@@FreeIndeedA lot of Protestants (Including adventist) watch the Perry’s because of the things we like that they discuss. Their ministry is not about refuting adventist beliefs but discussing biblical principles and sharing their experiences on relationships and ministry from biblical principles.
Thats why were we even seeing this content. So when misinformation is being shared from their platform of course we want to clear the air.
I agree that their channel is a blessing. God bless and enjoy your night.
@@FreeIndeedSome context: As the other commenter said a lot of people listen to the Perrys. It so happens that a lot of these people are SDAs. The Perrys are aware of this. The Perrys invited Eric Mason on to promote his book. The Perrys highly regard Eric Mason. In promoting his book Eric called SDAs a cult and cultish. The Perrys thought a lot of SDAs would take issue with this, which they did. The Perrys then invited Eric Mason on again to double down on his claims about SDAs supported by an ex-SDA who highly regards Eric.
I am a SDA, I watch and respect the videos of the Perry's and will continue to watch. In the statement read that the Bible should be used to judge all writings, experiences etc. That includes EG White's writings. Ellen White also said that her writings are the lesser light and the scriptures are the greater light. That to me is self explanatory of her status. Is she recognized as a prophetess, yes, do we see truth in her writings, yes, are some of her writings from her own opinions, yes, do SDA have to speak or use her writings, no. The Bible is sufficient but something are not always clear when we study the scripture and like many people, we research other writings, books for understanding. We believe her writings provide that. Do we have to accept her interpretation, no. Paul in scripture says he wish that all will not marry, this was his opinion and clearly, we don't need to follow so even scriptures provides guidance that not everything that is written is an expressed command. It is my belief that any denomination that practices freedom of choice cannot be defined as cult. SDAs believe that Jesus is the eternal God, John 1 is clear.
The Spirit was not given-nor can it ever be bestowed-to supersede the Bible; for the Scriptures explicitly state that the word of God is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. Says the apostle John, “Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1. And Isaiah declares, “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” Isaiah 8:20. GC vii.3
Our faith, and our position in the world as commandment keepers is based on the Bible. Never should the Testimonies be brought in to take a high place than the Bible. EA 141.4
The more we look at the promises of the Word of God, the brighter they grow. The more we practice them, the deeper will be our understanding of them. Our position and faith is in the Bible. And never do we want any soul to bring in the Testimonies ahead of the Bible. Ev 256.3
I am so glad that you posted this video. My mother's sister and children are all SDA and one of them is a minister. He's very well taught and genuinely believes in the SDA teaching including Ellen G. White. I sent him this video with the hopes that he will at least watch it. He's such a good father, husband and teacher, just an all around good person. I'm not expecting an immediate come to Jesus experience, but I do hope that this podcast will at least poke holes in what he has been taught and cause him to second guess what he has believed all his life.
Thank you Perrys for doing this. It is so important. I happen to be a friend of Elce Thunder Lauriston (Big up Jamaica) and STRONGLY recommend his books, especially the "Hidden In Plain Sight Series" (easily obtainable on Amazon)
1 hour does not even begin to scratch the surface of the heterodox and heresy of the SDA organization. Elce did a fine job, but there is SO MUCH MORE. I loved the invitation at the end to invite an SDA apologist and Elce to meet y'all in Chicago.
I have read through some of the comment section and as Dr Eric said it would it has a lot of SDAs kicking up a fuss. The funny thing is in private SDAs will say "Sunday worshippers" are not really Christians at all at worst or at best "misguided" Christians. Yet at the same time when interacting with Christians want them to accept SDAism as a true Christian religion. Furthermore, when it comes to other Sabbath-keeping churches they will say that they are not the remnant because they don't have the "gift of prophecy" i.e. Ellen White
. Folks don't be fooled when SDAs say that they are just another denomination. They are not and in truth they do not see you as brothers and sisters in Christ.
1. Their roots came out of non-Trinitarian beliefs and key leaders like Ellen White's husband, Joseph Bates and even JN Andrews who their flagship university is is named for were NON-Trinitarians i.e. the Christian Connection/Arian sects
2. They may use the same words such as grace, faith and salvation but they use a different dictionary
3. Even those who try to distance themselves from EGW and think they do not believe her, have her teachings taught to her week after week and in their Official SDA quarterlies, so whether they are aware or not they have an EGW world view
All facts bro. Big up yourself too. Thank you.
SDAs should not say they are just another denomination. They are definitely not. You are right about that part.
Wow! I am learning so much. Thank you for having this conversation. It makes me so grateful for The Holy Spirit is there to reveal The Truth.
Not when outright lies are being told...light and dark do not co-exist... A little lie makes the whole thing twisted.
He is not speaking truth
R.I.P NeferNitty
Broo like frr😢
Elce was the same one who attacked her about being SDA
Thank you for opening up this discussion to your audience 🙏🏿 I'm looking forward to the next parts
JESUS IS GOD!
We don’t teach that Christ is a created Being…
But michael is created. How can you can you say he's not created and say HE is at the same time by saying he's michael.
“The Eternal Father, the unchangeable one, gave his only begotten Son, tore from his bosom Him who was made in the express image of his person, and sent him down to earth to reveal how greatly he loved mankind.”
Review and Herald
July 9, 1895
@@JG-id5vi is fire created? Did God appear as fire? Is dove created? Did God appear in the form of a dove? When God wrestled with Jacob as a man, is man created, did God appear as man. When Jesus came clothed in humanity, aren’t humans created? Why can’t God appear as an angel?
@@keyatao-qi3og “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16 NIV
Oof these comments are interesting. Preston & Dr. Eric’s hearts are plain…. They’re willing to have conversations for the sake of truth. Plain and simple. Listen until the end please; with an open heart. The invitation is open for those willing to have the conversation.
Does Scripture teach us that we can read each other's hearts? The ex-SDA guest agrees with Eric and Preston and Jackie regard him very highly. It is a very biased presentation. Their hearts are not plain to me. In fact, the goal of the first interview was to promote Eric's book.
I think they were trying to have a debate and some pastors are not interested in debating our beliefs as an effective tool to teach what we believe. Preston should have a sit down with someone.
He did but if they took it otherwise, that's on them
interesting ... someone with a mic and a camera can say anything and we believe it hook, line and sinker, but the Bible we question ... Isiah 8:20 says if you contradict the BIBLE you are in darkness ... (NOT my Words ... God's Word) ... so if anything they said was NOT true Biblically ... how can I believe anything they said???
Just an inquiring mind ... by the way ... can you prove to me they asked an Adventist Pastor to join them? (I happen to be one and would feel honored to have an open respectful dialogue with anyone about what the Bible actually teaches.)
Or is that just again someone behind a mic saying they did and we believe them???
@@jwesKeys😂😂😂😂 the spirit of prophecy says it's ok to have an Orderly debate 🙆🏽♂️ Ok, I done
I am a SDA and sadly this is true. Thank you for sharing. For a long time I always felt there were many things off with the doctrine. But like the brother said, it’s been hidden underneath many other doctrines but it shows its face in many ways. It explains the way we move and talk if we are being honest. And I truly have been graced with more knowledge to help me worship in spirit and truth through this episode. Thank you.
I pray that this video and others reveal to you the gospel of Jesus and that you’re able to understand why SDA doctrine isn’t correct. Please follow Answering Adventism and Former Adventist here on RUclips. They will go more in depth with why the SDA church has a false gospel. I pay the Holy Spirit will lead you to a Bible based church where you can learn and grow.
Thank you for the recommendations.
Amen our allegence should bé to Yaweh and not a dénomination ❤❤❤
Thank you for your honesty!
In the beginning of the video Preston clearly states they engaged with people in the comments of their first video on this topic that are SDA AND asked SDA teachers to come for the second video. They either refused to come on this video or ignored the respectfully request completely. So how is any SDA having a negative comment at this time on this video? Why are you not speaking in this video on behalf of SDA?
Folks only see what they wanna see and hear what they wanna hear
He should show where an invitation went unanswered or declined. Until then it didn’t happen.
@@iriemo721no need to be defensive...