Real M1907 SL Trench "Sweeper" rifle compared to Battlefield 5 and Battlefield 1 | RangerDave
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- Опубликовано: 22 ноя 2018
- A NEW episode is now live featuring the classic 1897 pump action shotgun! • Winchester M1897 (Pump...
The Winchester 1907 was one of the most unusual rifles to see service during World War 1 as it had many features more commonly associated with more modern firearms: swappable external box magazines, a semi-automatic (and perhaps even fully automatic) rate of fire and an intermediate power cartridge making it quite easy to fire rapidly.
In this video we're going to go back in time a bit and imagine how the Winchester 1907 might have been used in World War 1 had the US needed to come up with its own "Stormtroops" in this special historic "trench load-out" episode of The Backyard Battlefield - inspired by Battlefield 1 and Battlefield V!
● THIS "BACKYARD BATTLEFIELD" VIDEO WAS FILMED BY A CREW WITH FIREARM EXPERIENCE IN SAFE CONDITIONS AT ALL TIMES. Safety for both the shooter and the crew is our #1 priority when producing this series. All traditional firearm rules are also adhered to:
1. Treat all guns as if they are loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
● Special thanks to Joel for the amazing cinematography in this episode! See more of his work at ➤ www.normanthefilm.com/
● Our awesome steel targets are from ➤ shootingtargets7.com/steel-ta...
● Additional thanks to Ben of Knapsack Creative for the use of the camera equipment he kindly provided for this episode ➤ www.knapsackcreative.com/
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#BackyardBF #RangerDave #m1907 #battlefieldv #backyardbattlefield
Hey folks! My name is Dave and I'm here to be your immersion tour guide. I make videos about games and mods along with some real-world firearms and history videos and the occasional oddball project thrown in as well.
Real M1907 SL Trench "Sweeper" rifle compared to Battlefield 5 and Battlefield 1 | RangerDave
• Real M1907 SL Trench "...
RangerDave
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A NEW episode is now live featuring the classic 1897 pump action shotgun! ruclips.net/video/7eELInkO9M8/видео.html
Imagine this... WW1 lasts long enough for the Spring Offensive of 1919. The Americans suddenly have the Tommy Gun (prototypes missed WW1 by only 2 days), the Browning BAR, the completed Pedersen devices, and the 1907 Winchester. The war would have ended by summer.
Every doughboy would have been their own one-man machine gun team.
That's not how that works.
@Eye Patch Guy I agree but the mp18 was not as reliable as it's later predessesors, still good, but not enough to compensate for US arms
Germans will use their MG-08/18, and MP-18s.
@@jirja3192 the mp18 was forward thinking, it was still a craftsman gun with a complicated magazine, making it time consuming and expensive to make, making their impact not as significant as one might think. I don't know that much about the mg08/18 though.
how in gods name did you find one in such good condition
Months of stalking Gunbroker!
There’s one on gun broker right now in good condition.
Replica idiot
@@RangerDave "Every bid you make
"Every rifle you sale
"Every item sell
"Something rare i tell
"i'll be watching you
@@pjcerda1186 Pretty sure theres no replicas of these idiot. As mentioned above, its a real one purchased on gun broker.
Idiot.
Ranger dave = *the only person who is extremely knowledgable of the 1st and 2nd war and goes 44-0 in a plane in BFV*
Devin Oneill ikr not many actual gun enthusiasts also like video games
Devin Oneill ive went 44-0 with a bomber.
High knowledge of history, low skill in games
I was totally surprised when I saw the 1907 in BFV... I did not expect THAT fast of a fire rate
Paladin Colt if it wasn’t for this gun I’d have stopped playing, it gives you that close quarter edge, essentially the AEK of BFV
@@Wanderingwalker-ke6mg Best assault gun for cqc.
I'd say the g43 is the best for medium/long range.
And the best all rounder is obviously the stg44.
Other guns could be gone and i wouldn't even care.
@@MatuIlMito The M1A1 is a beast at close-medium range though. Just spam it, it has like no recoil at all.
MatuIlMito I have every medic weapon max upgraded level 10 and my fav smg is the mp40 by far
@@don_p7546 yea me too, im trying to use the suomi more too but I'm having trouble controlling it.
I used to be a major gun buff, especially for military firearms.
Don't spend nearly as much time researching these days.
That said, I really enjoyed this video. Thanks a lot!
That is a really nice and chunky reload noise, even if it's an awkward process.
The only thing this gun is good for is cooking an egg.
@@windogendoors7566 OMG. 😂
Thanks for the reply!
I love this series, each addition gets better and better. Thank you Dave for not only great entertainment, but for teaching us the history behind these magnificent weapons.
You have renewed my interest in firearms. Like you, I became interested in guns due to video games.
Please keep up the great work, Dave!
ok but where is your AT rocket gun and 3 sticks of dynamite 🤔🤔
Denis Kapic his back pocket... right?
Denis Kapic. That firearm isn’t in the assault class, The M1907 was a medic class firearm, so where’s his syringe and med kits?? 😂🤔
He got a panzerfaust now
@@albertgranados3017 He would likely kill them with overdose.
Denis Kapic and gas grenades
Well one of the biggest things that would have kept this away from trenches even if the war continued was the fact the Americans were working on the Pederson conversions for 1903 Springfields, but more importantly the 1907 in .351 WSL had a poor reputation with hunters in North America with many claiming it to be inadequate...
Of course, hunters say the darndest things... I've got a 1907 made in 1932 and it shows on the plunger at the end which was changed for later models. I've taken at least 5 deer and at least 12 hogs with it. It doesnt get out much due to cost of ammo and lack of it. But the round packs more than enough punch... a 180gr .351 WSL compared to a 180gr .30-30, ballistics are nearly identical in every way possible and nobody really says the .30-30 cant take deer or hogs.
I've done some expansion tests with JSP's as well as looked at recovered rounds from hunting and it can easily get good expansion and penetration. A very good intermediate round that in my opinion the M1 Carbine SHOULD have been chambered in. While I like the .30 Carbine cartridge, the .351 WSL round is far superior and would have served as a much better round.
Good to hear some first-person hunting feedback on the .351! I was pretty impressed with my limited time with it so far but it's hard to beat real-world application.
@@RangerDave I really hate that the round lost favor as a whole, I mean if you look at modern ballistics, the closest thing to the old .351 WSL that's not a .30-30 is probably a 125gr .300 Blackout from a 16 inch barrel. While .357 Magnum in a 125gr loading if loaded up super hot can get similar performance, the cost of ammo to get that performance is on par with some .351 WSL and .300 Blackout by far is much cheaper.
But it always struck me as one of those calibers that was just ahead of it's time... Kind of like the 6.5 Lee Navy cartridge. If we look at what we know/learned about warfare post WW2, the .351 seems like a stellar idea considering it was still being produced at the time, and modifying the M1 action to fit a .351 would be rather easy to do. However, Army Ordnance Corp were a bunch of idiots thinking about lining their pockets and not getting troops with the best possible option available.
Even by today's standards... it's a fairly potent round. I'd imagine if you took a modern rifle design, used a lighter bullet... say 155gr with modern powder and primers, you could cut the barrel down to a 16 inch and get probably 2,600 fps for a 2,300+ ft lb rifle round. Even using loads made to original spec in 180gr format are capable of 1,900 fps or just shy of it and 1,400 ft lbs. Might not be defeating modern military body armor, but could easily defeat soft armor. And like I mentioned, with modern powder, bullets, primers, and etc... you could easily get a round that would perform better on armor.
Back in the day they thought everything had to be a naval cannon to be effective.
@@birdie021 Well I think things have come full circle to a point... It was all about power. How much energy it had was all anyone cared about it seemed. Fast forward to about 1950, WW2 is over and the data is analyzed... Suddenly, the data suggests intermediate calibers are the way to go with some of the first having similar ballistics .351 WSL often with higher velocity or slightly higher energy such as 8mm Kurz, .280 British, and a few others.
But.. just a bit farther ahead we get slapped with full powered rifle rounds again then we switch to super light/fast in the form of 5.56x45. We're still stuck in that small and fast phase to a degree because advantages of capacity, but the market looks like it's leaning towards that slightly more powerful intermediate type of caliber or in favor of going back to full power stuff.
The later 1910 SL model was chambered in 401 wsl wich used a 200 or 250 gr 40 caliber bullet at 2100 and 1900 fps so ballisticaly identical to 35 Remington
You have a plunger because the bolt-mounted charging lever was still under active patent, with IIRC Remington via JMB. Same reason the Winchester 1911SL shotgun had that awful system where you grabbed a knurled section of the barrel and pulled back.
Man, good 'ol JMB got around didn't he
"bolt-mounted charging lever was still under active patent"
Patents suck.
Aka the widow maker shotgun
@@VeryProPlayerYesSir1122 ruclips.net/video/tk862BbjWx4/видео.html :)
Exactly what I was going to comment too, plus the blowback system was used because there was pats on the long recoil actions of the Remington 8 and browning a5, those I think expired 1911 so winchester made their auto 5 copy but still couldn't use a charging handle on the bolt
Dave's safe setting on his guns should be his order setting, because as we all know, order is safety.
Hahaha that would be amazing! "SAFETY" for safe of course and "ORDER" for ready to fire.
I inherited the 401 version. Had the firing pin replaced. Extremely smooth when firing.
Crazy to think how danger close those guys would of been to their own Arty and then to go storm those trenches immediately after a shelling. Can't imagine what was running thru their heads
michael roudybush
Probably "dear god don't let me die today" or "take that Gerry!" something along those lines
Awesome camera work Joel with that camera, it is really top quality, I expected nothing less. Also good editing Dave, good to hear the BF1 soundtrack in there. Hope to get my hands on that rifle one of these days!
Good luck picking up all that hard to find brass in those woods
So excited for another of this series!
This video series is awesome, and is the whole reason I started following you. You know all your facts and the shooting scenes are really cool. Keep up the good work
- Safe
- Semi-Auto
> God wills it
DEUS VULT
Liquid Zulu i made a meme in my head where that guy shouts it in kingdom of heaven lol
Awesome video Dave, very interesting to think about what might have been with this thing in large scale use.
In 1916 my Grandfather went to New Mexico with Gen. Pershing trying to chase down, capture or kill Pauncho Villa. It was know as the Mexican Campaign. There were 16 of these self loaders issued to the Air Corp. during this operation. He later went to France in WWI and was awarded Two Silver Stars. I know he carried a .45 automatic as I asked him if he had brought any guns back from the war. He told me that he was discharged when he relegalized that he still had his pistol and he went back and turned it in. I guess he had enough war.
I will totally continue to watch watch this series. I enjoy the in depth comparison/review of guns on the battlefield vs real life. I realize there are other comparisons out there, but I liked the style you put together. Also, you've gained a sub. Good work man.
- to heavy
- small magazines (mostly 5 rounds)
- easy damageable magazines
- hard to get ammunition
nearly only used in aircraft (later spot balloons) roles.
When you
scare off Browning and are in need of "something" you only get "something"
Killed it as always, Dave! This is a great series, hopefully you can keep going with it for a boot.
Thanks Ethan!
I love this weapon in game. So glad you made a video on it.
I love this rifle to death, its my favorite Winchester ever. I have a soft spot for the "series" of rifles, I wish there was more content about this rifle on youtube.
Awesome video man! I love the way you present the rifle and information. Love it, really makes learning fun! Subbed!
So they went from a rifle with a magazine to a rifle with no magazine and after that they made a assault rifle with a magazine again
mitto ds what rifle didn’t have a magazine?
Pretty much all rifle at the time have a magazine, some are internal none detachable magazine (Garand, Kar 98, and pretty much most other rifles of the era) and some feature detachable magazine (a few rifles at that feature detachable magazine). Ultimately it has to do with military adoption...the military is used to stripper clip fed internal magazine and they don't really see the need for a detachable magazine for most of the rifles. They were sufficient for the need at the time. Even rifles with the detachable mag (Lee-Enfield) are still fed with stripper clips.
well the M1 Garand was meant to be issued with a detachable magazine, but they thought it would be better to save some dollars and just give 'em clips instead.
The M1 carbine would have fallowed up this rifle, the M1 carbine is magazine fed...
Saving the metal would be my guess as to how many and what was used on the battlefield.
first time watching this series. Really high quality video
Nice theatrical experience lol. Its hard to replicate the big guns. Thanks for the video.
One of my favorite bf1 guns
Nice rifle, thanks for doing the review on it Dave.
The production quality is amazing in this video!
Battlefield 1 had such amazing music, battlefield V has some pretty amazing music too
A friend of mine has 1 of those with the long mag and short mag. Looks just as clean. He's owned it over 20 years.
Great vid. I had only a vague notion of it's existence. Not from video games - I am 50 - but from an interest in 19th and 20th century history. I had not seen one before. The receiver has an almost Browning look. Pretty sweet.
The M1907 was very popular with US law enforcement up to late 1950's. Bullet easily perforated the gauges of sheet metal on civilian vehicles of era. Law Enforcement Supply, out of St. Joseph, MO, USA, made 25 round magazines for this. More powerful and accurate than handguns, less recoil and able to move lots of bullets downrange, than more recoiling rifles such as Remington autoloader. The .357 Magnum supposedly influenced by .351 and the short lived .357 Maximum cases used to make contemporary .351 loads. If you can find late production ammo from 1960's runs about $2.00/round. Earlier ammo, for shooters less desirable because of age, however, collectors do like the colorful early boxes.
This just popped up on my feed tonight, great video chum.
Well done! Love my 1907.
Awesome video as always dave, or should I say General Dave :) this channel covers two of my favorite things fallout, war, and guns/historical guns! Another interesting thing for you to do is explore some of the war time technologies and possibly the rations and mre rations, just some ideas. But as always awesome video!
I'm new to this channel and from this video so far I'm impressed with what you've done so far.
As your showing classical (or alternative classical?) firearms in a new an interesting direction, as most gun channels that feature old and sometimes even new gun channels seem to either just shoot something or go off on some historical rant or Wikipedia sourced information which can be interesting to watch but eventually it gets a bit stale, but this seems to be bringing something new to the table, by not only showing what a genuine world war one battlefield would've looked like but what an alternative world war one battlefield could've been in an alternate timeline which is definitely new that I like.
So all in all, keep at it - but remember to keep imagining different types of scenarios and events with weapons old and new just to keep things fresh, which would be my only criticism of sort, if this going to be your type of videos to produce for your channel.
this is so well put together actually. You deserve a lot more subs tbh. History channel type shit right here
Man I’d love an old self loader like that.
To hang on your wall... cause ammo for it is like unicorns, you hear about it but you can't ever seem to find it!
I really enjoyed the Ww1 simulation you did. It's good to see the guns potential. A shame it was never pursued, this really should have been developed as the first assault rifle.
I like this man’s beard.
Therefore I subscribe.
Had the war continued I think we'd potentially see a lot of these and Thompson annihilators in the trenches, mixed in with the BAR of course
From my research, those were made in .35 SL (self-loading) and .351 SL, which was slightly longer. I picked one up in perfect shape in .35 SL for $150 about 10 years ago on a private sale. It was the police / prison guard model. Never found ammo for it.
Fun fact: these Winchesters are also takedowns, from what I recall... if you twist that knob behind the receiver, the gun separates in two for easy transport. This thing has the Ruger PC carbine beat by about 100 years, lol.
They were also popular with Federal agents in the 1920's-1930's and a reference is made to this rifle in the movie "Public Enemies". It is also said some of the guys who shot up the Bonnie & Clyde car used the 1907. 🙂
Definitely a cool piece which has a surprisingly low following, for what it is.
The Gangster’s used them also.
They were popular with gangsters, Texas Rangers, Border Patrol and law enforcement in general. They held on for 50 years of production for a good reason.
I appreciated you doing the battlefield pose at the beginning of the video!
I like it. Great production 😄
Another great video!
Never seen nor tested that gun but to me it looked like something I would enjoy.
LOVE the quality of this
very cool video dude. i hope to see more
The .351 Winchester was also used as the basis for the 8x33 Ribeyrolles intermediate cartridge. It was tapered down and had a sharper projectile.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, the .351 was also modified for the Burton M1917 Light Machine Rifle.
It's smaller predecessor, the .32 WSL from the 1905, was the basis for .30 carbine. Makes you wonder about a 1905 that takes M1 carbine mags.
I’m still sitting on my 1907, unable to shoot it because ammo is unobtainium and I’m sad
If you're willing to pay a premium for it Gunbroker will occasionally have some, or if you have some time on your hands Load-X Ammunition can make you some nice new production stuff as well
PCI just did a run so ask around at a gunshop, if not call ventura munitions i know they had some available recently but i had to call because the website wasnt updated you have any questions about ammo for the '07 just ask
Buffalo arms makes 180gr .351sl it's about 1.75$ per round
@@anthonymartin6352 some is in stock now
ben Thomas I just looked and it isn’t :’(
God I love this series so much work must go into it but it's so worth it for us viewers
If you're more into the "Scout" class from the Battlefield games I also have a breakdown of the M95 straight-pull bolt action rifle! ruclips.net/video/wUN6tiYdOZI/видео.html
I've got a 1910 SL safe gun but in a slightly beefier 401 wsl wich ballistically compares to a 35 Remington mine was made in 1911
I also have a model 81 in 35 Remington for is the later version of the model 8
If you're having reliability issues with the aftermarket mags, take a look at this: ruclips.net/video/JnJpqHIkuQI/видео.html
At around 5:20 in the vid you can see the exact operation needed, slight grind the follower.
What state is this in
Yo this was really cool to watch :) thank you
Nice video! Your BF1&5 are in high quality too
If you actually want to know how this gun and its brother were used, mostly by the French, during WW I check with C&Rsenal. So far as is known it wasn't in the trenches. Astounding as it sounds one of these things actually shot a plane down.
Its not amazing at all. Planes in ww1 flew at 200-500 meters and were very fragile. With enough volume of fire you could do it
Correct. They weren't suited for trench warfare, but fared well as arms for aerial observers.
I have my Grandpa's '07, one extra 5-rd mag, excellent shape but heavily used (no damage just wear from decades as a saddle-gun), I only have about 50 rounds of rough looking ammo, and I've never fired or disassembled it. I looked it up and it was manufactured in 1911. From what his brothers told me he bought it to replace a '94 30-30 in his daily work, I can see why this would be superior on horseback to the venerable lever action.
Honestly bro I bloody well wish I lived the life you lead imagine playing some battlefield with the boys then going you know what guys come over and we’ll ACTUALLY play battlefield😂
Ok.... This channel needs over a mill subs NOW
Loved the video!
I hope ranger Dave gives you a safety video on guns for average falls
The blowback action and charging plunger were done that way to get around patents in place at the time. There was a patent in place for side charging handles and the few locked breach actions of the time.
this looks awesome
Awesome video, but where do you find ammo for these anymore?
Awesome video, make more like this !
The Winchester 07 was used by France to arm aircraft early in the war. They were practically unknown in the trenches
One blog had a photo of the French trenches, where there was a Standard Arms semi-auto (or some other very similar rifle), probably someone's private purchase. But there is not a single Winchester or Browning seen not in the hands of flyers.
Interestingly, some of them were used by the American Squadron of the London Home Guard in WWII. A lot of firepower for what was basically a rear-area guard unit.
Best video yet bud🍻
C&R Arsenal did an episode on this rifle also..including the development and use of it..Worth checking out..Another good video on this classic..
or they would've used the tommy gun or annihilator which were shipped to Europe just when the war ended
KOLMEKAKKONE tommy guns are unreliable
Austin Smith False. You have no idea what you’re talking about
Zach S they are very unreliable hence them being retired
@@LazyKingAus What was the most common reason for stoppage in the M1 Thompson? The reason they switched to the m3 grease gun was mainly for cost effective reasons, I've never heard of any reliability issues with the gun, why would an open bolt system with a pretty competent magazine follower and good magazine retention have reliability issues?
The first thompson SMG prototype wasn't made until 1919. Even that wasn't the final design as colt finished it before production started in 1921.
The annihihator wasn't a ''produced'' gun, it was basically a functional firearm for testing.
2:34 It would probably have a bayonet & heat shield _(to grasp the fore end to use the bayonet)_ much like the winchester 1897.
The original charging plunger was designed to allow cocking against fenceposts or other fixed objects, so its ergonomics were not quite so bad.
This together with the annihilator smg that the americans almost send to the frontlines but the war ended 2 days prior would have been a force to be reckoned with
The annihilator was the tompson automatic
The Entente already has shotguns for clearing trenches, they just didn't perfect the tactics.
It would make a hell of a pistol if it had the same furniture and lack of stock. Omg yes!
Damn I'd like more of these. Like if you can get the mp40, the sten or maybe the Lewis gun. Cool video mate
Nice video!
The rifle in both Battlefield 1 and V is actually a French Contract Winchester M1907/17 which was a M1907 modified to fire fully automatic at a crazy rate of 700 RPM. It accepted 20 round magazines and featured a bayonet lug.
The M1907 here is a good substitute since the French contract models are incredibly rare and are only found in museums.
only thing i was confused about from bf1 to bf5 is he turned from a single shot or a vary slow 300rpm auto in bv1 to a 700+ rpm auto in bf5....
those it make sense?
There needs to be a company that remakes these types of old guns but in .22 or .22 mag so they're affordable
Would you really need extra heat protection via wrapping for just three magazines worth of ammo? How much ammo did a typical user carry?
Are you making your loads from trimmed and formed 223 brass?
We need modern remakes in 357 mag!
That battle scene was fire🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I own one of these. The 351 ammo is definitely obscure and makes it hard to shoot much
I love this rifle. Good stuff.
While you were crawling on the ground i think i saw evilviking13 skulking in the background. POOP
Severely underrated channel
I notice you have one of the later 10 round magazines that tend to malfunction on the later rounds. Have you modified it at all?
Are the sights off a lever action. The safety is a common sense system for the day, for a right handed person.
Andrew Ball -it’s a Winchester Rifle... they used what they had. Those sights were the standard even up through the 70’s, until optics became the norm.
Also, Dave, the charging rod design of the m1907 is a carry over from the m1903 22auto, an obvious little brother of a rifle.
Thats a Winchester ?!
Well, i learned something new today
man this makes me want to play bf 1 again. I won't forget to disable the in-game chat tho
this is sick!
Beautiful rifle !
Awesome video 🤘🏻
Thanks man!
I have one of these ..Could you provide some info on how to get the accessories you have on yours ,,sling type , stock pack , etc ...thanks , Dan
What camera did you use for filming? The cinematography is beautiful
I have been collecting these fine rifles for about 45 years & have never even seen a picture of a 15 or 20 round magazine. Many people see the 10 round mag & think it is a 15.
I imagine had the war going on, it would have been either this rifle or the Springfield equipped with the Pedderson device (aka the m1903 experimental) that would have been used by American and British stormtroopers