Love Gobekli Tepe? Then follow the Tepe Telegrams here! It's the blog actually produced by the archaeologists working on the site. www.dainst.blog/the-tepe-telegrams/ Big thanks again to Jens for having a chat on the channel. Hope you enjoyed it as much as I did! I know there's so much more to GT than we covered here. Anytime you or your colleagues want to chat Jens, pop on over to casa del Milo!
Stefan Milo, do you mind having a discussion with SA NETER TV ? It's a Pro Black channel with some of the best scholars of world history. I'm tired of Soo many European scholars avoiding real FACTS just because it will debunk a lot of historical data taught at those Whitesupremist universities. Y'all do know that your not going to get the chronologically correct factual historical data from those Whitesupremacy University. So if you're not ashamed of your research and European Ancestry then I'm sure you'll be invited to correct anything that OUR scholars teach to US, the Pro Black COMMUNITY ✌🏿
I want to know if they defleshed their own family members; and/or ate them, in a solemn cermemonial dinner, of course . . . with a side of greens. Sorry. I couldn't help myself. It's late.
Stefan Milo and Jens Notroff- Gobekli Tepe, especially enclosure D, seems straight forward to me, why is it that interpretations seem to be lacking from the multidisciplinary work on the site? Vulture, albatross, dodo bird... I have done my share of research and it sure looks like the main central monolith is standing on seven dodo birds that would represent the Pleiades. This is common in ancient symbolism as dominance over the underlining subject, such as the video of Iraq's Saddam Hussein statue being slapped with shoes when taken down and other ancient symbolism. The other monolith has a bull on its chest symbolizing Taurus. These two are surrounded by twelve pillars representing the constellations. The puzzle pieces fit very closely with the basically proven younger dryas impact theory which matches the dates of the catastrophe that changed the Pleistocene into the Holocene and of Gobekli Tepe. With the die-off of the megafauna and many humans, plus the extreme climate changes it is no wonder that agriculture is suspected to occur at this time. The Taurid Stream is on top of the list of suspects in astrophysics and is stated as such in mythology with the bull and the seven birds on its back destroying the world. This is why there was the Apis bull, the bulls at Catalhoyuk, bull fighting, veneration of the bovine in India, and the brindle ox...etc. Advanced civilization as in beyond what the majority have formed as a consensus such as the precession of the equinoxes known way before Hipparchus. Another example is the lapidary work on the obsidian mirror found in the same general area.
Halfway through this video I began to feel an intense gratitude. After so much wild speculation regarding the site and the sensationalistic assertions accompanying its debut in the popular press, this measured, reasoned, and careful discussion is such a relief. Thank you very much gentlemen. It’s hard to express the depth of appreciation for offering your time and effort to publish this on RUclips where it is free to any who are interested. It’s quite a beautiful gift you give your fellow human beings!
@@boagski just curious. What don't you think he understands? Not understanding implies someone else does or implied that there is a greater understanding being missed.
Andy from the information provided, I think a more reasonable assumption would be. People at that time, that we know had basic tools and a very nomadic lifestyle and lived all over the land surrounding. They found that place, with the greater protection, stability and benefits. Population goes up so the place is sacred and worshipped, attracts greater unity, more tribes. Big seasonal hunts are carried out. With that comes hundreds if not thousands or birds, which are trapped and hunted. Eventually so much progress is made they try to replicate the sacred architecture in tribute on other locations
I just watched ur documentary on the sea people and the late Bronze Age just last night. Super well done good job man. I can tell u put a lot of time into those videos just wanted to lyk I appreciate it.
As a humble commercial archaeologist slogging away through a wet British winter it’s great to hear an un-sensationalised conversation about Gobekli Tepe. Jens was a great guest. Thanks to you both.
It is too bad that the bulk of online content about any given archeological site of interest is sensationalized and conspiracy theory-ridden BS. Stefan's work on RUclips is a manifestation of the most optimistic promises the internet offered us in its early days. I hope more people can make such contributions as our relationship with the internet continues to evolve.
@@burgerbobbelcher - I cannot say what this person slogs away at (mad respect for what s/he has to do in all weathers!), but my good friend, who owns a commercial archaeology company, is hired to examine various sites prior to digging and building as required by law - highways, big commercial buildings, airports, etc.
As A roofer I would find it so easy to build a roof structure on top of the t shapes, ideal for load bearing like a lot of modern concrete t structures for motorway bridges etc.
@@IvoOtt I certainly did. Nevshehir, kapadokia.were the first places my 'guides' took me too. outstanding. 5 years later. Gobekli tepe was the final tour i took before leaving Turkey
Fusion it’s exactly what it’s always been. Just like Constantinople it’s a meeting of east and west. The river that divides instanbul is Europe on one side and Asia on the other.
Lol I don't get whats so remarkable? It had to of been one of the first inventions people even had. If not our ancestors lol. And...anyone can figure out how to make one simply and how useful it is.
All I can say is it is a good thing I don't have to hunt for my food. I don't even know where Tacos are native to, much less how to sneak up on them to catch them.
I’ve been to Catalhuyuk and been inside the reproduced examples of the homes assumed to be 9000 years old. I’ve also lived in the SW of the United States. I was struck by the identical construction technique used at Catalhuyuk and the adobe houses of the Navajo. The same right down to the ladder entrance from the roof and the mud oven under the ladder. Also, the old cliff dwelling people buried their dead in the walls of their homes. At Catalhuyuk they buried them in the floor. Interesting
man , its completley fake . military contractors built it in a war zone for rich guys to make money off of selling the right to excavate. We dont live in a world of truth , but world of lies , especially on you tube . You hear a naive story of research and honest money on you tube , think again . You should be the first one to know , because your elders told you that this earth is not billions of years old My elders showed me a calendar dating from the great flood , its now 7528 years since the flood . The calendar comes from the same place as this tample . So if ppl who lived there 7000 years ago say there was nothing before that , then what else can it be , then a planted site , a fake tample , made to make money off of selling it .
This is so amazing. I remember reading a story many years ago about a farmer finding a strange stone jutting out of the ground, and then Gobekli Tepe blowing my mind. Shining light on our ancient history is so important for our continued development as a species, especially as we usher in the next age of human kind. To all involved, thank you for the efforts!
Gobekli Tepe is amazing, but think about this: Skippy and Biff did not just decide to build these monuments one morning because they had the day off. GT shows developed stone working and stone carving skills, as well as developed art styles. This did not happen overnight, this took time. I want someone to find the workshops where they learned all these skills. it makes sense that there are earlier carvings and such out there that show the progress of the overall education in the skills and arts needed to create these monuments.
Thank you for the intelligent comment. What has always amazed me about this site is the nature of the T pillars. Why are they there at all? They don't seem to have any structural purpose and seem unrelated to the mortar fee stone walls. They are the real mystery. They seem symbolic and the carvings of totem-like animals on them are really intriguing. The later complete burial of the site is also mind bending. All fantastic to me.
Not just the stone work but everything that goes into working on a large project. Organizing labor, organizing food production and distribution on a large scale with a large percentage of the population unavailable to help with it, not to mention all the astrological alignments and carvings with possible astrological implications.
They do discuss the villages in the region having similar workings, such as the T shaped pillars. Likely, in large part, these surrounding congregation are where these skills were developed and nurtured. Wood carving while remaining nomadic and small stone carving could be the root, then as people began to settle and stagnate their migrations, moving to larger projects would make sense.
Some years ago I had the amazing chance to see Göbeklitepe in person as a teen who absolutely did not care even a bit about the trip, and I deeply regret not actually appreciating the astounding history behind it
Absolutely cracking interview Stefan. Interesting point about Beer being easier to make than Bread. I hadn't considerd that before but now I think about it it makes sense!
Possibly it will reverse and now we start migrating again. How many people live in the place of their birth these days? How many people work within only a mile of their homes?
You honor your alias ;-) Same here, I’m in love with his style! Quietly peeling off the layers and constantly keeping an open mind. Except for this topic and I have to admit I’m a sucker for this kind of “creative thinking”. I don’t think Hancock is deliberately playing his audience and he is truly personally invested in this topic. I keep an open mind, but then again, I have to, I’m a complete n00b
There are sites in Australia, Bunya Mountain, for example, where hunter gatherer peoples, the aboriginals, would gather in their thousands to meet and have festivities. They were able to do this because there was a ready and abundant source of nutrition in the bunya nuts from the many large bunya trees. You can see rings in the older trees cut to facilitate climbing. Another site in the Carnarvon Gorge was a gathering place where aboriginal people have left thousands of artworks on cave walls.
Outstanding !! Thank you From a Croatian who much appreciates your work. BTW there is also a local museum there with additional interesting pieces and arrangements of carved stones
Really highlights the difference between a scientist and a conspiracy theorist. A scientist changes his story to match new evidence a conspiracy theorist changes new evidence to match his story.
What an excellent comment thank you! an Excellent video. It is a 3 year old video. Now we know they lived there and processed vast amounts of food, etc. Vast numbers of ground stone have been found there and living quarters. We know more now. What a great guest, so interesting!
Shiela Marie Hankinson I think that a lot of assumptions are being made in this video, especially the effort to why does it even exist. Ritual, but why? What was the religion? Why backfill? The established accepted timeline makes no sense.
The transition from circular to square could be interpreted by transition from tents, which are usually circular or with round corners, to houses, that are more easy to build and use if they are square
@@absalomdraconis That was just idea that hit me while listening to that interview. Its true, there are a lots of cultures building round houses through whole history. I cant proove it, but i would bet design changed with use of furniture. You can use better your space in square house. But i may be fully mistaken of course.
according to the size and extension of these structures, it does not seem to me, that it would be anyway more difficult or easier making square round or spheric tippis for those ...???? I guess humans....
cant tell you how much respect and admiration i have for your work, man oh wait i kinda just did! z-class humour aside, keep up the excellent work! great content EVERY time i check back on your channel
My difficulty is that before GT, the very definition of "hunter gatherer" included not having agriculture and not being able to produce megalithic stone structures. By definition. So what do we call a group that can do those things, if not a civilization that we just don't know much about yet? Calling them lost doesn't make it a "conspiracy", just a need to re-define our terms, and the understanding that goes along with it. Now, if it turns out that the term "hunter-gatherer" is being clung to in order to maintain our current dating theories about other megalithic structures.....That would be the conspiracy ......but a call to re-exam what people were capable of and at what point in history, regardless of what we call them, that is not a conspiracy and that work should go on with the best scientific methods and technology we have available.
It is true that hanter gatherers wouldn't be able to produce that much super product to drive such a construction and what's more interesting is that the older parts are superior to those built afterwards and that's a sign of degredation of technique which is very strange.
@Nick Nack it is strange to me because i would expect a gratual increase in size and complexity and not the opposite. I mean does it make senee to build the largest and most difficult and technically demanding first?
@Nick Nack So an explanation would be that the newer parts could be better and more robust because the builders had the skill and knowledge to do it but they did not want to waste man power and resources to do it? Because the materials if understand correctly are the same so much for the old as much for the new parts.
@Nick Nack So even though there is no difference in the materials and the technique is clearly detoriorating meaning that the old builders knew more about building stone staff than the new builders, you stick to the village example where the materials are clearly different, and even though their foundation won't last that long their overall properties are essentially better and serve different purposes basedd on technological advancement. Everyone knows that the empire state building won't last as much as the pyramids but we all know that the empire state is much more advanced that the pyramids.
At the southern Shetland Isles about/around 60°N,theres also T-pillars,and it seems like they've supported those through the ages by surrounded them in two or three directions with stones so the guarding,or fence if you will,acts like walls inside in a zig zag pattern,and of course enhanced the structure outside for obvious reason and covered the building with soil. About 17000 BC ,Shetland lost its ice sheets on land and on the surrounding seafloor,and they lost its glaciers apx 14-13000 BC. Scatness-Iarlshof.
Thanks, this was great: intrigued by hunter-gatherer lifestyle. Another misnomer: agriculture is in irrigated rows of monoculture. Where I am (Saskatchewan) many indigenous ‘hunter-gatherer’ cultures were/continue to harvest wild grains and tubers in agricultural practices (wild rice, yampah, cat tails, bread root, spices & medicines, etc.), through reseeding & tuber division, not to mention fruit & nut management.
Laymen typically don't understand that "hunter gatherers" also cultivated crops. For a currently impossible to determine time, humans have put selective pressure on plants and animals that were beneficial to us.
@@penelopemelson3797 that's call managing the lands yes it still is but a step closer to full agriculture and beside if you hunt enough animal and gather enough plants you can learn how to manges those little bit yes it's still wild but it's now partially under your controli means there real example of this: managing wild life or making new forest and managing anew ecosystem to exist yes these are all modern but again we can do that even with stone ages tools and skills with enouh times people can manages wild lands even if it's abit
Awesome piece Stefan. One point - the concept seems to be overlooked that neolithic possibly harvested wild, baby birds and animals to then raise them in wickerwork cages, much in the same way traditional pate-de-fois-gras geese were raised. This would be a halfway house between hunter gathering and agriculture. We use tame wild Asian elephants in the same way - catching baby elephants then raising and using them for human purposes. The best explanation for the 'bags' I have seen is that they represent the rising sun on the horizon, marking the solstice or equinox. One part of the glyphs depicting dates maybe? I like the idea that Gobekli Tepe was part corpse sky burial site, part astrological observatory/ astrological story telling venue.
Thanks for posting this interview! In my opinion, the idea that historians underestimated late paleolithic peoples was a pleasant shock. Still, the most fascinating part about Gobekli Tepe (IMO) is not its implications, but what their culture was about. Was this place a massive hub? Did foraging and hunting parties go out, bring back a bounty, and make offerings to some kind of chief on behalf of their families? It could be a fascinating story!
I've recently been reading "The Smart Neanderthal: Cave Art, Bird Catching, and the Cognitive Revolution", a book by ornithologist Clive Finlayson about the interaction between neanderthals and birds over the course of their existence. I couldn't help but think about this book when you were discussing the importance of vultures at Gobekli Tepe, and the likelihood that it functioned as a funerary site where bodies were picked clean by vultures. One major trend Finlayson discusses is vulture bones found with cut marks that indicate that the birds were skinned so as to leave their pin feathers in tact, creating a sort of vulture feather cloak, which may have had religious significance, possibly indicating that neanderthals had some sort of religious reverence for vultures. This isn't unique to neanderthals, with Homo sapien settlements of similar age often showing similar behavior, but it's interesting to think that the rituals being performed at Gobekli Tepe may be part of a religious tradition in the region that extends back to the paleolithic.
It seems unlikely that this is the only structure of its kind from that time. I wonder if Jiroft in Iran, once it’s fully excavated, will be dated to about the same time period.
The _site_ is presumably not one of a kind, but it wouldn't be _too_ odd if it was the only one developed like this at the time. Given that this is very early in the history of stationary structures, it's very possible that this was a unique combination of stationary structure and potential funerary practice. On the other hand, it's also possible that the similar structures in local villages were even a decentralized form of the same.
I find it very unlikely that there is only one site like this in the world, and we just happened to find the only one in the world. It is likely that there are more.
Thanks it was great Conversation about Gobeklitepe. I have been working since 10 years for Gobekkitepe and still working here. I was worked with archeologists team and they already discovered 24 temples until now . Still the excavation is go on well . Here is zore of the life place .
Wow this guy was amazingly interesting. So many times I feel like things I’m interested in are maybe beyond my comprehension, but he explained everything so succinctly and vividly that I just loved everything he said. Thanks for sharing and asking the questions.
It can be difficult to think of hunting/gathering cultures and sedentary lifestyles, but there is a very good example which I think will help one get a notion of what it was like; the people of the Pacific Northwest in North America. They were settled and yet clearly hunting and gathering through a long time period and in fact still are. I propose that for a long time the geography of that region would have provided a similar situation with their wild resources.
Yup it's definitely pure speculation. As Jens says not all of the back filling may be deliberate. As we can never ask them why, all we can do is speculate as best as possible with the evidence we have at the time.
That was very informative. I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that slabs weighing up to 50 tons were carved using only stone tools, then smoothed into nearly perfect rectangular shapes. When I visited Giza, our tour guide explained that huge blocks of stone were quarried by the Ancient Egyptians using an ingenious technique: wooden wedges were inserted into cracks in the stone, then a great deal of water was poured into these cracks, which made the wooden wedges swell up and break the rock. The wedges and water did most of the work in separating large blocks of stone from the quarry; after that it was just a question of shaping, smoothing, and transporting the blocks. I wonder if the people of Gobekli Tepe already possessed some of these stoneworking techniques.
Interesting to see how much change in the theories there has been regarding the site since this video was uploaded. Now they're saying that Gobekli Tepe WAS a residential site, and that bodies were buried there, etc. etc. Also other related sites have been unearthed and studied, shedding more light on the whole mysterious issue. I saw a video recently suggesting that the site for Gobekli Tepe was chosen because plenty of easily quarried rock was there, as the people had deforested the area using wood as a building material. So stone pillars weren't a deliberate move towards monumental architecture so much as a replacement for tree trunks. Or so they say until the next upheaval in the theories.
Hi Stefan, could the depressions on top of the t shaped megaliths be from the people who buried the site when they were milling grains to feed the people. Just a thought. The T shaped pillars would have had a lot of time before they were buried in comparison to the rest of the site. In essence, maybe they were kitchen tables for the whoever buried the place. Thanks Mark.
23:38 I would like to hear what Jens was about to say here. Suddenly he's nolonger considered the expert ? I'm hanging onto his every syllable and the conversation is stepped on, Jens corrected, and we're wisked away in another direction ....
Loved the interview! Goblekli Tepe was one of the unknowns in my knowledge just as most of the topics you address. I could have listened to an hour more. This hour felt like a good anime episode, it was over before I knew it. Thank you very much! Edit: You've got a new patreon supporter in me! You are the first content creator I deemed worthy.
The fact that you're not just digging out the entire site and leaving things for your colleagues to find and research instead of taking all the credit is amazing.
So excited by the topic - and almost an hour's run time! Apologies for what RUclips is going to do with the fact that I'm going to have to watch it over several smaller sessions, so it's going to chalk up a bunch of "viewer didn't finish the video" points.
I just find it so infinitely interesting some humans had a vision of something, a vision of something that has never existed before that point: a place where instead of few, many people gather. That wouldn't shift with changing fortunes of game, but remain, endure. Even across time. Where there are dozens and dozens of caves that shelter you from the elements and that keep you warm, tightly packed, yet they are not solid rock or even shaped by nature: they are to be built by human hands. It's hard to explain something as grand as Gobekli Tepe (or the first towns in general) as just some iterative improvement. If not for the constituent elements that make up a town, then for the vision of putting it all together as a coherent singular concept and thinking that this might actually work. Someone truly must have sat at a fire, tens of thousands of years ago, lost in his thoughts, and had this picture in his mind. And managed to convince enough compatriots to convince enough strangers to set this in motion.
i means they also probably tired of moving everytimes to find their food why move every so often whe you could stay at a rich ecosystem with all the food and wild games and don't need to find or made a cave in the ground
The point at 44:42 regarding the archaeological definition of civilization was really interesting and significant. I think a lot of the traction in the public mind of lost civilization theories when it comes to sites such as Gobekli Tepe is do to this cognitive dichotomy between primitive hunter gatherers and advanced civilizations. That dichotomy may exist in our present world, but primarily because hunter gatherers have been forced off of all the best, most fertile land on the planet by agricultural societies. Back during the Neolithic (and even in later periods), there was lots of room for a large gray area between what we think of as primitive hunter gatherers and advanced settled peoples, where groups such as those who constructed Gobekli Tepe would have existed.
At Göbekli Tepe, handstones, grinding bowls and plates, mortars and pestles have been discovered in large numbers. You can make bread with flour and water, its doesn't have to be a brioche
A great discussion! I was wondering why no one seems to have considered Gobekli Tepe as the worlds first shopping Mall, like a Chinese "wet" market where everyone brings bats, monkeys or ducks, foxes, pigs, to sell or barter for goods... or snakes and spiders for magical potions. i think it a bit much to imagine that everyone from miles around would come just for religion, but they would have come for miles for the first flea market to barter their hunter-gatherer catch. David Shepard Assoc. Professor
Nietsche left a beautiful quote in German: “zuerst das fressen und dann die Moral“, meaning food first then morals. It makes sense that after an era of hardship, where food was hard to come by and survival was brutal, a period of more lenient climatological conditions led to a boom in cultural expression.
You’ll notice that they remained hyper focused on Atlantis and aliens, but at no point did they debunk the Reptilian hypothesis. I consider this rock solid proof that lizard people are behind this site. (But in all seriousness, delightful little interview, very nice.)
The Freemasons built this! Yeah why not... Crazy people online. These are the same people who were holding "end of the world" signs just 20 years ago. Or just their kids. Stupid people breed like flies.
This guys comment answers yours... John Allright 10 months ago As A roofer I would find it so easy to build a roof structure on top of the t shapes, ideal for load bearing like a lot of modern concrete t structures for motorway bridges etc.
I became interested in the 10,000- 20,000 bce time period In the 1990’s when I picked up a history of mankind book by Issac Asimov and 10,000-20,000 bce was blank. No history recorded and I wondered why. Gobekli Tepe seems to me to be the key to our forgotten past.
Edit: @43:18 Hearing Jens talk about how he would have a Netflix doc and book deals for discovering an ancient civilization is just too funny now that Graham's mini series came out! 😂
One thing I haven’t heard as an explanation for the seemingly obscure site chosen for the location of Gobekli Tepe is a mass prey migratory route. Something like the Buffalo in America. Just a thought...
Johanna Geisel yeah but for a site like that it’d have to be an annual mass migration of millions upon millions of animals... not just your usual antelope hanging out in the valley below.
Archaeologists and historians have limited themselves to the thinking that our ancestors couldn't have been smart enough to do a lot of things, yet loads of these things come up. We can't even fully conceptualise things done even less then thousand years ago, let alone tens of thousands of years.
@@navdeepkumar5085 Agreed. It's a lack of imagination, or locking themselves into a certain prejudiced position of what ancient man might have been capable of.
I COMPLETELY AGREE AND THE FILL IN OF THE SIGHT BuryinG IT WAS DONE PORPUSLY, GRAHAM HANCOCK SAYS WW HAVE NO IDEA HOW OLD IT TRULY IS 50% OF IT'S STILL UNDERSTAND.
Very much an orthodox approach to explaining gobekli tepe, I do enjoy hearing the unorthodox theories a little more but great information all the same.
The so-called called engraved "vulture" doesn't fully represent the characteristics of any currently known vulture, especially with the rounded head. The image is more likely a mix of man and vulture/raptor - an avianoid - which are found in Upper Paleolithic cave art and ancient traditions.
@@CChissel Recent research in the last ~10 years has uncovered a lot we previously did not know about the Neanderthals. They were quite the advanced, tool-users. www.audubon.org/news/did-neanderthals-catch-and-kill-golden-eagles-their-feathers-and-talons
lol this is the reason why I don’t believe a word these idiots say. The site is only 10% excavated and he’s trying to tell me it’s built by hunters gathers who havnt even built a cup yet.
Excellent, thank you. Over the year since this was posted, it seems that natural slope wash and redeposition has become the preferred hypothesis for most of the burial of the site, rather than backfilling by human agency, seen there.
Absolutely. Fantastic. Video. Stefan, I just ran across you this evening, and have watched several of your videos. I've loved every minute of it. I understand why a lot of people crave the idea of incredible, super-advanced civilizations being around in the past. Sensational stuff like that gives us a thrill. And if the purveyors of those theories can also add in a COVER UP, well, that just totally golden. I'm really glad you're out there bringing some sanity to the whole subject.
@ Well, actually I don't. I guess I assume it was just brute muscle of a lot of people. Maybe with simple mechanisms like rollers and levers and so on. How could it have been anything else?
@ Did you even listen to Stefan's objections to Dr. Hancock's theory? They're sound. The idea that a "high civilization" would have traveled the world, sharing knowledge of agriculture, but left ABSOLUTELY NO TRACE of themselves in the patterns of crop migration, population genetics, or archaeology is fairly ridiculous. If you actually knew me and had a full picture of my online activities you'd know that I'm in fact on the "open minded" side of the spectrum - I support the possibility of a number of things that mainstream science rejects, and I'm sure some scientists would accuse me of being "fringe." I don't necessarily think any of those things MUST be true, but I see them as possibilities. Just as an example, I absolutely don't rule out the idea that there might have been some population center that got taken out by the big meltwater pulses back around Younger Dryas time. Maybe even one on some mid-Atlantic ridge islands that would correspond to Plato's writings on Atlantis. Some of those people might have migrated at the time of the sea rise over to Sumeria - there has to be SOME good explanation for why Sumerian is a language isolate compared to Akkadian and the other languages of the Fertile Crescent region. But when you start piling too much onto that story - when you start attributing truly sophisticated technology similar to ours today to such a "lost" civilization, or when you start making the whole thing depend on some kind of psychic powers that we have no trace of today, and so on. it just becomes unbelievable. This happens *all the time* online - someone starts with some reasonably plausible points, and just keeps at it until the become ridiculous and, yes - worthy of being mocked. I am open minded, but not stupidly so. Take care and stay safe.
I wonder that since this is regarded as the very start of agrarian way of life and stationary life, was there a transition of possibly primitive huts built from branches and other more primitive means of construction progressing to the use of laying stone walls, quarrying stone to create support pillars etc. Wouldn't the quarrying of stone and carving reliefs be quite advanced? I'm only amateur and wondering if this would be quite advanced in material culture than the start of the agrarian stationary way of life. Thanks for a very intriguing presentation and interview! Does the analysis of DNA reveal anything, or the plaque found on their teeth?
Yes, look at current anthropology. There are peoples living in huts and brush shelters comfortably at the present time in the Amazon and Micronesia and Melanesia. Environment drives culture in many ways.
Yes that is also what I am thinking about. These are quite high skill for people that hunt and gather and only worked seasonally on the stones. You need a lot of practice. This was not the first time of these builders, and they have a higher or equal skill than most people nowadays that actually went to school for it. In the medieval age it took atleast 5 years of constant carving and learning under a master to reach this level (look at the carved out lion on one of the pillars). Something hunter gatherers just don't have the time, knowledge and resources for.
@@williamkeith8944 Hi! Thanks for your informative reply! I meant in respect specifically to the findings at Gobekle Tepe. I was inquiring because it seems a huge leap in material culture to create such an advanced structure if this is being claimed as the first agrarian site for humanity, going from nomadic life to stationary life and cultivating crops and no evidence specific to these people transitioning, a progression. Maybe that's very difficult to find because the nomadic structures were very temporary... but all just my own amateur inquiry.
@@mver191 Hi! Nice of you to take the time, and so informative! Do you think that before this site is claimed to be the first agrarian site for humanity there should be more time to determine where the transition evidence is? Have you heard if they have sought DNA information too? I'm only amateur and not sure if DNA analysis reveals diet or not. Is that a good approach? Maybe DNA would only reveal diet... yet maybe a transitional diet... and not cross reference a date. Maybe they mean that so far in archaeological history this is the earliest dated site for agrarian society so far, perhaps already determined by carbon 14, mass spectrometry, and other means I'm not aware of where they have already dated this site. Great work they are doing at Gobekli Tepe in the amazing fields of specialization to determine from where homo sapien has evolved and progressed.
The skill of working with stone must have been present in order to create flint tools. The structures are not more technically advanced than this, except in the significant aspect of co-ordination of the efforts of large numbers of individuals, ie political/social advance. I am an architect not an archaeologist. I imagine a group of individuals with influence across a given area where a number of families lived with some stability, acquiring political and spiritual authority and co-ordinating seasonal efforts to construct these buildings. The opportunity/obligation to lead feasts would encourage the cultivation of certain plants in order to produce consciousness-altering beverages (beer) and bread, perhaps at other sites where microclimate and soil was known to favour such plants. Ancestor-worship would be acknowledged here too, under the guidance of “priests” or leaders.
This is the best conversation I've heard yet on Gobekli Tepe. It would make perfect sense that it was a sort of "circle of life" center, and also probably why they have yet to discover any burials. I wonder if it's also possible that the purpose of the "T" shaped stones were to serve as roosts for vultures? I'm picturing people carrying the bodies of their loved ones up the hill to the "priests", who, after receiving an animal or some other offering, would prepare the bodies to be more easily consumed, then place them inside the circular areas with some sort of ritual fanfare. Then the vultures, roosting on top of the "T" stones would swoop down and clean the bones. Once cleaned of all meat, and possibly ritualistically cleaned by the priests, the bones would be given to the family members waiting outside. Possibly the areas were filled in after a specific number of bodies were processed, the priest or vultures passed away, I don't know. Anyway there's still plenty of mysteries to answer. I'm just glad they've been allowing people like Jens Notroff to do research there.
Sky Burial is not just in Tibet. Also the Zorastraian (Parsii) worship fire and have sky burial towers. The zorastarians were the original Persians were located in present Iran which is only few days travel from south east turkey. Also some native American indians also do sky burials! I wonder if the T could be beams to hold logs with place for dead bodies for sky burials. Insight tells me this is possibility. Would be great to see the the sky burials tower architecture and see if there is similarity. If this turns out to be linked could some one reference me for the original idea 🤔😉
Your videos attract great comments. Glad to join this community. Great videos. Thank you. PS: Trying to answer the question at min 40.45 is how I found you. The answer from Jens Notroff debunks IMO that conspiracy theory satisfactorily. It is sensational and the ones involved make a lot of money from it.
I have a question. How did the builders get the skill to built this art wise? I mean, to reach this level you need a lot of practice and knowledge. And I doubt hunter gatherers had the time, knowledge, or resources to practice this. There should be a long history of building and passing on knowledge of these structures in order to know how to move the stones, not break them, and carve them. And yet we find nothing anywhere. Not even small plates where they practiced on (like we do with clay tablets for example). The little statues from that time period found in the area seem to be much lower in quality also (typical barely recognizable prehistoric fertility statues). It took in the medieval age years to reach this skill, and they were basically carving the whole day under a master mason.
A open and honest point! Well-asked, by the way. There is also the issue of food stocks needed. After all, the whole site seems to have been landscaped before any stone was moved. I mean, hunter-gatherers? If I was there, I'd say, "Why not wood, why such, big, heavy stones? And, what am I going to eat? If my entire extended family and I labor on this, exactly how are we going to gather or hunt food?!? And, exactly, how does this aid in our survival?!?". There would have to be ample proof that my concerns would be directly addressed, or, I wouldn't be involved. Not to mention security from all the dangerous animals, As I'd not be on guard during the day, and way too tired to guard, at night.
@@supernautacus I agree. But are we actually correct about the dating? I've done some research and I've found some very compelling things related to the Halaf period : "The Halaf culture is a prehistoric period which lasted between about 6100 BC and 5100 BC. The period is a continuous development out of the earlier Pottery Neolithic and is located primarily in south-eastern Turkey, Syria, and northern Iraq, although Halaf-influenced material is found throughout Greater Mesopotamia." Now do you recognize this figure? images.app.goo.gl/5AzYrWxqj47eRvqH8 It's exactly the same as the upper right figure next to the bag in the vulture stone. Even the geometric patterns seems to match. So aren't we misdating Gobekli Tepe by about 4000 years? Perhaps the site was founded 12,000 years ago, but everything we see is from a later culture 8000 years ago that simply reused the site. Everything makes so much more sense if it was from a much later date. images.app.goo.gl/9SvRcbHPDq7hLWpr5 images.app.goo.gl/ikn5oC8zRqKxfVaB7 images.app.goo.gl/zomTmvMyPR2QJCVw6
go to about the 45 minute mark. you can see failed T's partially done. you can see the quarries too. perhaps give our ancestors credit- they are just as smart as we are, just not as far along techwise.
supernautacus ell oh effing ell. it is on a fucking mountain top- right next to the stone suitable for it. no trees around. this is on the Oryx and gazelle migration path- hence food supply. plenty of animal bones from said animals there from butchering. This is basic info in the hour presentation. you really should put the comic books down.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Love Gobekli Tepe? Then follow the Tepe Telegrams here! It's the blog actually produced by the archaeologists working on the site. www.dainst.blog/the-tepe-telegrams/
Big thanks again to Jens for having a chat on the channel. Hope you enjoyed it as much as I did! I know there's so much more to GT than we covered here. Anytime you or your colleagues want to chat Jens, pop on over to casa del Milo!
Idea for a new video; how the paradigms of archaeology have evolved over the years.
Stefan Milo, do you mind having a
discussion with SA NETER TV ?
It's a Pro Black channel with some
of the best scholars of world history.
I'm tired of Soo many European
scholars avoiding real FACTS just
because it will debunk a lot of
historical data taught at those
Whitesupremist universities.
Y'all do know that your not going
to get the chronologically correct
factual historical data from those
Whitesupremacy University. So
if you're not ashamed of your
research and European Ancestry
then I'm sure you'll be invited
to correct anything that OUR
scholars teach to US, the
Pro Black COMMUNITY ✌🏿
I want to know if they defleshed their own family members; and/or ate them, in a solemn cermemonial dinner, of course . . . with a side of greens. Sorry. I couldn't help myself. It's late.
Hunters lodge!!
Stefan Milo and Jens Notroff- Gobekli Tepe, especially enclosure D, seems straight forward to me, why is it that interpretations seem to be lacking from the multidisciplinary work on the site? Vulture, albatross, dodo bird... I have done my share of research and it sure looks like the main central monolith is standing on seven dodo birds that would represent the Pleiades. This is common in ancient symbolism as dominance over the underlining subject, such as the video of Iraq's Saddam Hussein statue being slapped with shoes when taken down and other ancient symbolism. The other monolith has a bull on its chest symbolizing Taurus. These two are surrounded by twelve pillars representing the constellations. The puzzle pieces fit very closely with the basically proven younger dryas impact theory which matches the dates of the catastrophe that changed the Pleistocene into the Holocene and of Gobekli Tepe. With the die-off of the megafauna and many humans, plus the extreme climate changes it is no wonder that agriculture is suspected to occur at this time. The Taurid Stream is on top of the list of suspects in astrophysics and is stated as such in mythology with the bull and the seven birds on its back destroying the world. This is why there was the Apis bull, the bulls at Catalhoyuk, bull fighting, veneration of the bovine in India, and the brindle ox...etc. Advanced civilization as in beyond what the majority have formed as a consensus such as the precession of the equinoxes known way before Hipparchus. Another example is the lapidary work on the obsidian mirror found in the same general area.
Halfway through this video I began to feel an intense gratitude. After so much wild speculation regarding the site and the sensationalistic assertions accompanying its debut in the popular press, this measured, reasoned, and careful discussion is such a relief. Thank you very much gentlemen. It’s hard to express the depth of appreciation for offering your time and effort to publish this on RUclips where it is free to any who are interested. It’s quite a beautiful gift you give your fellow human beings!
What an excellent chat. You should make conversations with archeologists like this a regular thing. Think of all the viewing hours :D
Just found your channel History Time, good stuff!
@@boagski just curious. What don't you think he understands? Not understanding implies someone else does or implied that there is a greater understanding being missed.
Andy from the information provided, I think a more reasonable assumption would be. People at that time, that we know had basic tools and a very nomadic lifestyle and lived all over the land surrounding. They found that place, with the greater protection, stability and benefits. Population goes up so the place is sacred and worshipped, attracts greater unity, more tribes. Big seasonal hunts are carried out. With that comes hundreds if not thousands or birds, which are trapped and hunted. Eventually so much progress is made they try to replicate the sacred architecture in tribute on other locations
I agree! There are so many on-going archeological long-term projects right now and updates like this are very helpful.
I just watched ur documentary on the sea people and the late Bronze Age just last night. Super well done good job man. I can tell u put a lot of time into those videos just wanted to lyk I appreciate it.
As a humble commercial archaeologist slogging away through a wet British winter it’s great to hear an un-sensationalised conversation about Gobekli Tepe. Jens was a great guest. Thanks to you both.
It is too bad that the bulk of online content about any given archeological site of interest is sensationalized and conspiracy theory-ridden BS. Stefan's work on RUclips is a manifestation of the most optimistic promises the internet offered us in its early days. I hope more people can make such contributions as our relationship with the internet continues to evolve.
Also not to hear Schmidt's - beginnings of religion nonsense.
What does a commercial archeologist do?
@@burgerbobbelcherI would like to know as well
@@burgerbobbelcher - I cannot say what this person slogs away at (mad respect for what s/he has to do in all weathers!), but my good friend, who owns a commercial archaeology company, is hired to examine various sites prior to digging and building as required by law - highways, big commercial buildings, airports, etc.
Glad to see an actual SCIENTIFIC video on RUclips about this amazing site. So difficult to find these days. Thank you both so much.
Scientific? Seriously?
@@Wobbz9413 what?
@@Wobbz9413 did you want to say alien made this site? *sigh* you're predictable
As A roofer I would find it so easy to build a roof structure on top of the t shapes, ideal for load bearing like a lot of modern concrete t structures for motorway bridges etc.
Yes! Thank you! I agree 👍
I thought the same thing.
i think we underestamate our ancient times and peoples not hunter gathers.
I've always thought that as well, but no one ever mentions finding evidence of "roof" remains. Idk
Fair point. If you look how the T's are arranged thought I doubt this was the purpose.
I lived in Turkey for 5 years. The highlight of the entire trip was to visit Gobekle Tepe. Truly amazing
What's Turkey like? Looks great, but a personal perspective is always more informative
A five year trip? Wow, good acid. You hunt.
Did you get a chance to see the Fallout shelter Derinkuyu underground city?
@@IvoOtt I certainly did. Nevshehir, kapadokia.were the first places my 'guides' took me too. outstanding. 5 years later. Gobekli tepe was the final tour i took before leaving Turkey
Fusion it’s exactly what it’s always been. Just like Constantinople it’s a meeting of east and west. The river that divides instanbul is Europe on one side and Asia on the other.
Whenever I go hunter gathering at the grocery store, I am very grateful for the invention of the bag.
Lol I don't get whats so remarkable? It had to of been one of the first inventions people even had. If not our ancestors lol. And...anyone can figure out how to make one simply and how useful it is.
or its not a bag but sunrises and sunsets.
...and the bascart.
All I can say is it is a good thing I don't have to hunt for my food. I don't even know where Tacos are native to, much less how to sneak up on them to catch them.
@@HaroldandEdge LOL! p.s. Always hunt for tacos on Tuesdays.
I’ve been to Catalhuyuk and been inside the reproduced examples of the homes assumed to be 9000 years old. I’ve also lived in the SW of the United States. I was struck by the identical construction technique used at Catalhuyuk and the adobe houses of the Navajo. The same right down to the ladder entrance from the roof and the mud oven under the ladder. Also, the old cliff dwelling people buried their dead in the walls of their homes. At Catalhuyuk they buried them in the floor. Interesting
Very interesting comment and gt iş related to americas
@@mehmetkurtkaya3106 The pillars look almost exactly like the ones in Menorca too!
@@guillaumerusengo9371 cool. And there iş a probably reason for it.check my website or book if interested
man , its completley fake . military contractors built it in a war zone for rich guys to make money off of selling the right to excavate.
We dont live in a world of truth , but world of lies , especially on you tube .
You hear a naive story of research and honest money on you tube , think again .
You should be the first one to know , because your elders told you that this earth is not billions of years old
My elders showed me a calendar dating from the great flood , its now 7528 years since the flood . The calendar comes from the same place as this tample .
So if ppl who lived there 7000 years ago say there was nothing before that , then what else can it be , then a planted site , a fake tample , made to make money off of selling it .
Best comment EVER.
Very grateful to hear from someone who has really been there and been a part of the study!!! So interesting, love it. Thanks!!
This is so amazing. I remember reading a story many years ago about a farmer finding a strange stone jutting out of the ground, and then Gobekli Tepe blowing my mind. Shining light on our ancient history is so important for our continued development as a species, especially as we usher in the next age of human kind. To all involved, thank you for the efforts!
I am 13 minutes in and I have to say great editing with the pictures, circles etc. It really helps in understanding the conversation.
Gobekli Tepe is amazing, but think about this: Skippy and Biff did not just decide to build these monuments one morning because they had the day off. GT shows developed stone working and stone carving skills, as well as developed art styles. This did not happen overnight, this took time. I want someone to find the workshops where they learned all these skills. it makes sense that there are earlier carvings and such out there that show the progress of the overall education in the skills and arts needed to create these monuments.
Cary Martin The skill is sitting for weeks in the sun and hitting a rock with a stone. 😐
Thank you for the intelligent comment. What has always amazed me about this site is the nature of the T pillars. Why are they there at all? They don't seem to have any structural purpose and seem unrelated to the mortar fee stone walls. They are the real mystery. They seem symbolic and the carvings of totem-like animals on them are really intriguing. The later complete burial of the site is also mind bending. All fantastic to me.
Agreed. The sorts of specialised stonemasonry skills needed to build this don't just emerge out of nowhere.
Not just the stone work but everything that goes into working on a large project. Organizing labor, organizing food production and distribution on a large scale with a large percentage of the population unavailable to help with it, not to mention all the astrological alignments and carvings with possible astrological implications.
They do discuss the villages in the region having similar workings, such as the T shaped pillars. Likely, in large part, these surrounding congregation are where these skills were developed and nurtured. Wood carving while remaining nomadic and small stone carving could be the root, then as people began to settle and stagnate their migrations, moving to larger projects would make sense.
Most informative and entertaining contribution on Göbekli Tepe on RUclips I've seen so far. Keep on going Stefan.
Some years ago I had the amazing chance to see Göbeklitepe in person as a teen who absolutely did not care even a bit about the trip, and I deeply regret not actually appreciating the astounding history behind it
And that's why you never waste money traveling with a baby or a teenager 😅
Parenting 101.
@@darylwilson1915 depends
Absolutely cracking interview Stefan. Interesting point about Beer being easier to make than Bread. I hadn't considerd that before but now I think about it it makes sense!
I know I had never thought about it that way either. Great video topic for you!
@@StefanMilo Already done it. ;)
Easier to consume too
I made beer and wine in Bozeman for many years. I was personally surprised at how easy it was to make. 9,000 years ago it would be just as easy.
Yeah but it tastes like trash!!
"This is where people began to became sedentary" 12000 years later the process is nearly complete...
In some corners of the world i fear we (they) haven't progressed much.
With the Corona pandemic right now, we are probably the most sedentary we have ever been.
The La-z-boy People led the way!
Possibly it will reverse and now we start migrating again. How many people live in the place of their birth these days? How many people work within only a mile of their homes?
Farming is NOT easy, but harder! Very labor intensive, nothing sedentary about it!
Thanks for asking the Question and a great interview. I look forward to the comments on this video...
Lol me too. I would love someone to seriously defend the idea that Denisovans built it.
Stefan Milo wait. That’s actually a thing people say?
@@cloudwaveASMRsleepsounds hhahahahah....2021, not a single comment....hahaha, you just portray yourselves..hahaha
Late to the party, but this is really great.
Ah!! Hi Voices of the Past!! I love your videos
You honor your alias ;-)
Same here, I’m in love with his style! Quietly peeling off the layers and constantly keeping an open mind. Except for this topic and I have to admit I’m a sucker for this kind of “creative thinking”. I don’t think Hancock is deliberately playing his audience and he is truly personally invested in this topic. I keep an open mind, but then again, I have to, I’m a complete n00b
Fascinating, thank you! Searching "Gobekli Tepe" on RUclips throws up so much rubbish, it's awesome to hear such a knowledgeable interview, thank you!
There are sites in Australia, Bunya Mountain, for example, where hunter gatherer peoples, the aboriginals, would gather in their thousands to meet and have festivities. They were able to do this because there was a ready and abundant source of nutrition in the bunya nuts from the many large bunya trees. You can see rings in the older trees cut to facilitate climbing. Another site in the Carnarvon Gorge was a gathering place where aboriginal people have left thousands of artworks on cave walls.
Having this podcast to hear during eastern holidays now is just perfect. Thanks to both of you guys!
Outstanding !! Thank you
From a Croatian who much appreciates your work. BTW there is also a local museum there with additional interesting pieces and arrangements of carved stones
Really highlights the difference between a scientist and a conspiracy theorist. A scientist changes his story to match new evidence a conspiracy theorist changes new evidence to match his story.
What an excellent comment thank you! an Excellent video. It is a 3 year old video. Now we know they lived there and processed vast amounts of food, etc. Vast numbers of ground stone have been found there and living quarters. We know more now. What a great guest, so interesting!
What’s the conspiracy surrounding this topic? And who are the conspirators?
There are many many examples of corrupt and politically influenced science
@@Tara-Maya Generally the ancient alien stuff. But also people who make sweeping claims on very little evidence
@@nevid4694 hypothesizing is conspiracy theory? We should probably stick to the definition instead of changing the definition to fit the target.
This is great!!! Thank you! We love your channel! Please keep up the good work!!
Great talk!
Only downside is that the RUclips is already recommending me more videos about ancient aliens and stuff.
...it's suggestive sales, huh ? Try 60 Days Millionaire pool... see what happens..
Those guys don't think humans are capable of anything without alien help haha
@@freefall9832 .. likely, they know Humanity is not capable of anYthing GOOD, without their help.
Shiela Marie Hankinson I think that a lot of assumptions are being made in this video, especially the effort to why does it even exist. Ritual, but why? What was the religion? Why backfill? The established accepted timeline makes no sense.
@@yuppy1967 .... assuming the concept of religion was invented yet.
The transition from circular to square could be interpreted by transition from tents, which are usually circular or with round corners, to houses, that are more easy to build and use if they are square
Your perception of houses makes a number of assumptions itself.
@@absalomdraconis That was just idea that hit me while listening to that interview. Its true, there are a lots of cultures building round houses through whole history. I cant proove it, but i would bet design changed with use of furniture. You can use better your space in square house. But i may be fully mistaken of course.
according to the size and extension of these structures, it does not seem to me, that it would be anyway more difficult or easier making square round or spheric tippis for those ...???? I guess humans....
@@bobwilson7684 not making, but using them... try to put shelf, or any other furniture to round, like tent, structure...
@@vladimircharvat7331 hahahaha........mmmmhahahahaha!
How’d you know this would make my entire week?
It made me too
Thanks!
Thanks for your work Stefan
Fascinating conversation and very informative. Jens is a good, articulate speaker.
Thank you for this video! Great topic.
Excellent interview. Great insight into an amazing site
Glad you like it! It really is a fascinating place.
@@StefanMilo poor mate, very poor...
cant tell you how much respect and admiration i have for your work, man
oh wait i kinda just did!
z-class humour aside, keep up the excellent work! great content EVERY time i check back on your channel
My difficulty is that before GT, the very definition of "hunter gatherer" included not having agriculture and not being able to produce megalithic stone structures. By definition. So what do we call a group that can do those things, if not a civilization that we just don't know much about yet? Calling them lost doesn't make it a "conspiracy", just a need to re-define our terms, and the understanding that goes along with it. Now, if it turns out that the term "hunter-gatherer" is being clung to in order to maintain our current dating theories about other megalithic structures.....That would be the conspiracy ......but a call to re-exam what people were capable of and at what point in history, regardless of what we call them, that is not a conspiracy and that work should go on with the best scientific methods and technology we have available.
Exactly this guy is a fool.
It is true that hanter gatherers wouldn't be able to produce that much super product to drive such a construction and what's more interesting is that the older parts are superior to those built afterwards and that's a sign of degredation of technique which is very strange.
@Nick Nack it is strange to me because i would expect a gratual increase in size and complexity and not the opposite. I mean does it make senee to build the largest and most difficult and technically demanding first?
@Nick Nack So an explanation would be that the newer parts could be better and more robust because the builders had the skill and knowledge to do it but they did not want to waste man power and resources to do it? Because the materials if understand correctly are the same so much for the old as much for the new parts.
@Nick Nack So even though there is no difference in the materials and the technique is clearly detoriorating meaning that the old builders knew more about building stone staff than the new builders, you stick to the village example where the materials are clearly different, and even though their foundation won't last that long their overall properties are essentially better and serve different purposes basedd on technological advancement. Everyone knows that the empire state building won't last as much as the pyramids but we all know that the empire state is much more advanced that the pyramids.
At the southern Shetland Isles about/around 60°N,theres also T-pillars,and it seems like they've supported those through the ages by surrounded them in two or three directions with stones so the guarding,or fence if you will,acts like walls inside in a zig zag pattern,and of course enhanced the structure outside for obvious reason and covered the building with soil. About 17000 BC ,Shetland lost its ice sheets on land and on the surrounding seafloor,and they lost its glaciers apx 14-13000 BC.
Scatness-Iarlshof.
Thanks, this was great: intrigued by hunter-gatherer lifestyle. Another misnomer: agriculture is in irrigated rows of monoculture. Where I am (Saskatchewan) many indigenous ‘hunter-gatherer’ cultures were/continue to harvest wild grains and tubers in agricultural practices (wild rice, yampah, cat tails, bread root, spices & medicines, etc.), through reseeding & tuber division, not to mention fruit & nut management.
A greater misnomer is "Simple" Hunter Gatherers.
Laymen typically don't understand that "hunter gatherers" also cultivated crops. For a currently impossible to determine time, humans have put selective pressure on plants and animals that were beneficial to us.
I have eaten that wild rice and agree with you.
That is still gathering, not cultivating.
@@penelopemelson3797 that's call managing the lands yes it still is but a step closer to full agriculture and beside if you hunt enough animal and gather enough plants you can learn how to manges those little bit yes it's still wild but it's now partially under your controli means there real example of this: managing wild life or making new forest and managing anew ecosystem to exist yes these are all modern but again we can do that even with stone ages tools and skills with enouh times people can manages wild lands even if it's abit
Fantastic interview, Stefan! I've only recently discovered your channel, but I love it, fantastic, thorough work - keep it up! :)
Awesome piece Stefan. One point - the concept seems to be overlooked that neolithic possibly harvested wild, baby birds and animals to then raise them in wickerwork cages, much in the same way traditional pate-de-fois-gras geese were raised. This would be a halfway house between hunter gathering and agriculture. We use tame wild Asian elephants in the same way - catching baby elephants then raising and using them for human purposes.
The best explanation for the 'bags' I have seen is that they represent the rising sun on the horizon, marking the solstice or equinox. One part of the glyphs depicting dates maybe?
I like the idea that Gobekli Tepe was part corpse sky burial site, part astrological observatory/ astrological story telling venue.
Just listening this great chat on my way to göbeklitepe. Thanks for this lovely and informative post. Loved it!
How was the visit?
@@ColdHawk it was great
Thanks for posting this interview! In my opinion, the idea that historians underestimated late paleolithic peoples was a pleasant shock. Still, the most fascinating part about Gobekli Tepe (IMO) is not its implications, but what their culture was about. Was this place a massive hub? Did foraging and hunting parties go out, bring back a bounty, and make offerings to some kind of chief on behalf of their families? It could be a fascinating story!
I've recently been reading "The Smart Neanderthal: Cave Art, Bird Catching, and the Cognitive Revolution", a book by ornithologist Clive Finlayson about the interaction between neanderthals and birds over the course of their existence. I couldn't help but think about this book when you were discussing the importance of vultures at Gobekli Tepe, and the likelihood that it functioned as a funerary site where bodies were picked clean by vultures. One major trend Finlayson discusses is vulture bones found with cut marks that indicate that the birds were skinned so as to leave their pin feathers in tact, creating a sort of vulture feather cloak, which may have had religious significance, possibly indicating that neanderthals had some sort of religious reverence for vultures. This isn't unique to neanderthals, with Homo sapien settlements of similar age often showing similar behavior, but it's interesting to think that the rituals being performed at Gobekli Tepe may be part of a religious tradition in the region that extends back to the paleolithic.
It seems unlikely that this is the only structure of its kind from that time. I wonder if Jiroft in Iran, once it’s fully excavated, will be dated to about the same time period.
The _site_ is presumably not one of a kind, but it wouldn't be _too_ odd if it was the only one developed like this at the time. Given that this is very early in the history of stationary structures, it's very possible that this was a unique combination of stationary structure and potential funerary practice. On the other hand, it's also possible that the similar structures in local villages were even a decentralized form of the same.
I find it very unlikely that there is only one site like this in the world, and we just happened to find the only one in the world. It is likely that there are more.
Boncuklu tarla was recently excavated you should check it out
A “T” shaped pillar would also be easier to propel along the ground since there would be three push points rather than one.
Thanks it was great Conversation about Gobeklitepe. I have been working since 10 years for Gobekkitepe and still working here.
I was worked with archeologists team and they already discovered 24 temples until now . Still the excavation is go on well . Here is zore of the life place .
Wow this guy was amazingly interesting. So many times I feel like things I’m interested in are maybe beyond my comprehension, but he explained everything so succinctly and vividly that I just loved everything he said. Thanks for sharing and asking the questions.
It can be difficult to think of hunting/gathering cultures and sedentary lifestyles, but there is a very good example which I think will help one get a notion of what it was like; the people of the Pacific Northwest in North America. They were settled and yet clearly hunting and gathering through a long time period and in fact still are. I propose that for a long time the geography of that region would have provided a similar situation with their wild resources.
Brilliant example
Agreed ^_^
Hunter/gathers are supposed to be responsible for Gobekli Tepe? Oh, no way.
@@capitalisa - Open your mind.
@@capitalisaokay, Graham Hancock.
Thank you for covering this topic, definitely in my top five favorite ancient sites. I have always been confounded by the intentional burial.
Yeah, presumably they had a chance of belief for whatever reason.
Yup it's definitely pure speculation. As Jens says not all of the back filling may be deliberate.
As we can never ask them why, all we can do is speculate as best as possible with the evidence we have at the time.
They recently discovered multiple other sites around gobeklitepe that were built the same way and have the same style of statues!
That was very informative. I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that slabs weighing up to 50 tons were carved using only stone tools, then smoothed into nearly perfect rectangular shapes. When I visited Giza, our tour guide explained that huge blocks of stone were quarried by the Ancient Egyptians using an ingenious technique: wooden wedges were inserted into cracks in the stone, then a great deal of water was poured into these cracks, which made the wooden wedges swell up and break the rock. The wedges and water did most of the work in separating large blocks of stone from the quarry; after that it was just a question of shaping, smoothing, and transporting the blocks. I wonder if the people of Gobekli Tepe already possessed some of these stoneworking techniques.
It really good see 600k people have watched this. This shows interest of the people in hna history. Wish this number even higher
Interesting to see how much change in the theories there has been regarding the site since this video was uploaded. Now they're saying that Gobekli Tepe WAS a residential site, and that bodies were buried there, etc. etc. Also other related sites have been unearthed and studied, shedding more light on the whole mysterious issue. I saw a video recently suggesting that the site for Gobekli Tepe was chosen because plenty of easily quarried rock was there, as the people had deforested the area using wood as a building material. So stone pillars weren't a deliberate move towards monumental architecture so much as a replacement for tree trunks. Or so they say until the next upheaval in the theories.
Thats's fascinating,dude! Have you tried DMT?
Bruh....
Bruh....
Oscar Ecsedi joe rogan would be proud
Adumb Earthling
ruclips.net/video/I6latJFux7E/видео.html
Bruuuuuh
Hi Stefan, could the depressions on top of the t shaped megaliths be from the people who buried the site when they were milling grains to feed the people.
Just a thought.
The T shaped pillars would have had a lot of time before they were buried in comparison to the rest of the site. In essence, maybe they were kitchen tables for the whoever buried the place.
Thanks Mark.
This was a fascinating discussion, thanks for posting.
Notroff's accent and enthusiasm make me excited about a topic I didn't expect to get so interested in
I wonder what it was like when the place still had that new Tepe smell?
23:38 I would like to hear what Jens was about to say here. Suddenly he's nolonger considered the expert ? I'm hanging onto his every syllable and the conversation is stepped on, Jens corrected, and we're wisked away in another direction ....
Loved the interview! Goblekli Tepe was one of the unknowns in my knowledge just as most of the topics you address. I could have listened to an hour more. This hour felt like a good anime episode, it was over before I knew it. Thank you very much!
Edit: You've got a new patreon supporter in me! You are the first content creator I deemed worthy.
New subscriber- I so appreciate the professionalism of the content and links to additional sources. THANK YOU!
The fact that you're not just digging out the entire site and leaving things for your colleagues to find and research instead of taking all the credit is amazing.
So excited by the topic - and almost an hour's run time! Apologies for what RUclips is going to do with the fact that I'm going to have to watch it over several smaller sessions, so it's going to chalk up a bunch of "viewer didn't finish the video" points.
It all balances out in the end. I could've spoken to him for 5 hours easy lol. Hopefully he'll agree to a part 2.
@@StefanMilo 👍👍
I just find it so infinitely interesting some humans had a vision of something, a vision of something that has never existed before that point: a place where instead of few, many people gather. That wouldn't shift with changing fortunes of game, but remain, endure. Even across time. Where there are dozens and dozens of caves that shelter you from the elements and that keep you warm, tightly packed, yet they are not solid rock or even shaped by nature: they are to be built by human hands.
It's hard to explain something as grand as Gobekli Tepe (or the first towns in general) as just some iterative improvement. If not for the constituent elements that make up a town, then for the vision of putting it all together as a coherent singular concept and thinking that this might actually work. Someone truly must have sat at a fire, tens of thousands of years ago, lost in his thoughts, and had this picture in his mind. And managed to convince enough compatriots to convince enough strangers to set this in motion.
i means they also probably tired of moving everytimes to find their food why move every so often whe you could stay at a rich ecosystem with all the food and wild games and don't need to find or made a cave in the ground
This channel is so under rated still
The point at 44:42 regarding the archaeological definition of civilization was really interesting and significant. I think a lot of the traction in the public mind of lost civilization theories when it comes to sites such as Gobekli Tepe is do to this cognitive dichotomy between primitive hunter gatherers and advanced civilizations.
That dichotomy may exist in our present world, but primarily because hunter gatherers have been forced off of all the best, most fertile land on the planet by agricultural societies. Back during the Neolithic (and even in later periods), there was lots of room for a large gray area between what we think of as primitive hunter gatherers and advanced settled peoples, where groups such as those who constructed Gobekli Tepe would have existed.
Oh man I was just telling my dad about this place. Great timing. Thanks Stefan
At Göbekli Tepe, handstones, grinding bowls and plates, mortars and pestles have been discovered in large numbers. You can make bread with flour and water, its doesn't have to be a brioche
A great discussion! I was wondering why no one seems to have considered Gobekli Tepe as the worlds first shopping Mall, like a Chinese "wet" market where everyone brings bats, monkeys or ducks, foxes, pigs, to sell or barter for goods... or snakes and spiders for magical potions. i think it a bit much to imagine that everyone from miles around would come just for religion, but they would have come for miles for the first flea market to barter their hunter-gatherer catch. David Shepard Assoc. Professor
Nietsche left a beautiful quote in German: “zuerst das fressen und dann die Moral“, meaning food first then morals. It makes sense that after an era of hardship, where food was hard to come by and survival was brutal, a period of more lenient climatological conditions led to a boom in cultural expression.
Was very fortunate to visit the site! So incredible!
I just want Jens to say "Get to the choppa!"
🤦🏻♂️
You’ll notice that they remained hyper focused on Atlantis and aliens, but at no point did they debunk the Reptilian hypothesis. I consider this rock solid proof that lizard people are behind this site.
(But in all seriousness, delightful little interview, very nice.)
The Freemasons built this! Yeah why not...
Crazy people online. These are the same people who were holding "end of the world" signs just 20 years ago. Or just their kids. Stupid people breed like flies.
Will you ever cover Gunung Padang?
I hope to see this place completely uncovered before I die. This place is so amazing
This is awesome, thank you so much!
Would the top of the "T" shaped standing blocks support a timber roof?
This guys comment answers yours...
John Allright
10 months ago
As A roofer I would find it so easy to build a roof structure on top of the t shapes, ideal for load bearing like a lot of modern concrete t structures for motorway bridges etc.
I became interested in the 10,000- 20,000 bce time period In the 1990’s when I picked up a history of mankind book by Issac Asimov and 10,000-20,000 bce was blank. No history recorded and I wondered why. Gobekli Tepe seems to me to be the key to our forgotten past.
Edit: @43:18
Hearing Jens talk about how he would have a Netflix doc and book deals for discovering an ancient civilization is just too funny now that Graham's mini series came out! 😂
Graham Hancock's son is an executive at Netflix. The world still runs as it always has: it is all about WHO you know not WHAT you know.
Thanks for this it's wonderful and i'm so grateful for considered conversation about this site
THANK YOU TO BOTH OF YOU!!!
One thing I haven’t heard as an explanation for the seemingly obscure site chosen for the location of Gobekli Tepe is a mass prey migratory route. Something like the Buffalo in America. Just a thought...
Jens said that the antelope and other animals would be down in the valleys.
Johanna Geisel yeah but for a site like that it’d have to be an annual mass migration of millions upon millions of animals... not just your usual antelope hanging out in the valley below.
They didn't even start creating pottery and all of the sudden, they've organized and built a freaking prehistoric soho club?
you need a bar to serve drinks before you need something to put them in. evolution. or something.
Archaeologists and historians have limited themselves to the thinking that our ancestors couldn't have been smart enough to do a lot of things, yet loads of these things come up. We can't even fully conceptualise things done even less then thousand years ago, let alone tens of thousands of years.
@@navdeepkumar5085 ..and were done here. You win the entire comment section.
@@navdeepkumar5085 oldest skeleton of modern human (with this same brain size as us) is dated at 200 000 years ,let this sink in guys
@@navdeepkumar5085 Agreed. It's a lack of imagination, or locking themselves into a certain prejudiced position of what ancient man might have been capable of.
With so little of the entire complex yet to be uncovered I find it a bit preemptive to discuss what this really was
No, it isn't.
I COMPLETELY AGREE AND THE FILL IN OF THE SIGHT BuryinG IT WAS DONE PORPUSLY, GRAHAM HANCOCK SAYS WW HAVE NO IDEA HOW OLD IT TRULY IS 50% OF IT'S STILL UNDERSTAND.
Welcome to archeology. No data and lots of assumptions yet they call it a science
people love to gossip
@@charlesradford7495 Why would anyone care what an astrologist thinks?
Good interview. Thanks!
Very much an orthodox approach to explaining gobekli tepe, I do enjoy hearing the unorthodox theories a little more but great information all the same.
The so-called called engraved "vulture" doesn't fully represent the characteristics of any currently known vulture, especially with the rounded head. The image is more likely a mix of man and vulture/raptor - an avianoid - which are found in Upper Paleolithic cave art and ancient traditions.
One can ask an ornithologist or look it up - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulture
You know who was known to be the earliest 'tamer' of falcons and wore elaborate headdresses made from their feathers and talons?
The Neanderthals.
@Jeff Caplan How do you know it was Neanderthals?
@@CChissel Recent research in the last ~10 years has uncovered a lot we previously did not know about the Neanderthals. They were quite the advanced, tool-users.
www.audubon.org/news/did-neanderthals-catch-and-kill-golden-eagles-their-feathers-and-talons
@@CChissel because he does drugs
This is absolutely fascinating! Thank you both for all of your work!
Heyyy, guys. Since we can't figure out how to make a coffee mug, let's engineer a temple that will stand forever.
such is culture !
lol this is the reason why I don’t believe a word these idiots say. The site is only 10% excavated and he’s trying to tell me it’s built by hunters gathers who havnt even built a cup yet.
Hunter gatherers lmao..
Ok, who built it then? Fucking aliens?
@@basedtvrk9125 No. I think it was built by a previous human advanced civilization that must died off. I actually think that happened numerous times.
Excellent, thank you. Over the year since this was posted, it seems that natural slope wash and redeposition has become the preferred hypothesis for most of the burial of the site, rather than backfilling by human agency, seen there.
Absolutely. Fantastic. Video. Stefan, I just ran across you this evening, and have watched several of your videos. I've loved every minute of it. I understand why a lot of people crave the idea of incredible, super-advanced civilizations being around in the past. Sensational stuff like that gives us a thrill. And if the purveyors of those theories can also add in a COVER UP, well, that just totally golden. I'm really glad you're out there bringing some sanity to the whole subject.
@ Yes, no kidding. Those peeps pulled off some really amazing stuff, and I'd love to know EXACTLY how they did it.
@ Well, actually I don't. I guess I assume it was just brute muscle of a lot of people. Maybe with simple mechanisms like rollers and levers and so on. How could it have been anything else?
@ Did you even listen to Stefan's objections to Dr. Hancock's theory? They're sound. The idea that a "high civilization" would have traveled the world, sharing knowledge of agriculture, but left ABSOLUTELY NO TRACE of themselves in the patterns of crop migration, population genetics, or archaeology is fairly ridiculous.
If you actually knew me and had a full picture of my online activities you'd know that I'm in fact on the "open minded" side of the spectrum - I support the possibility of a number of things that mainstream science rejects, and I'm sure some scientists would accuse me of being "fringe." I don't necessarily think any of those things MUST be true, but I see them as possibilities.
Just as an example, I absolutely don't rule out the idea that there might have been some population center that got taken out by the big meltwater pulses back around Younger Dryas time. Maybe even one on some mid-Atlantic ridge islands that would correspond to Plato's writings on Atlantis. Some of those people might have migrated at the time of the sea rise over to Sumeria - there has to be SOME good explanation for why Sumerian is a language isolate compared to Akkadian and the other languages of the Fertile Crescent region.
But when you start piling too much onto that story - when you start attributing truly sophisticated technology similar to ours today to such a "lost" civilization, or when you start making the whole thing depend on some kind of psychic powers that we have no trace of today, and so on. it just becomes unbelievable.
This happens *all the time* online - someone starts with some reasonably plausible points, and just keeps at it until the become ridiculous and, yes - worthy of being mocked.
I am open minded, but not stupidly so.
Take care and stay safe.
I wonder that since this is regarded as the very start of agrarian way of life and stationary life, was there a transition of possibly primitive huts built from branches and other more primitive means of construction progressing to the use of laying stone walls, quarrying stone to create support pillars etc. Wouldn't the quarrying of stone and carving reliefs be quite advanced? I'm only amateur and wondering if this would be quite advanced in material culture than the start of the agrarian stationary way of life. Thanks for a very intriguing presentation and interview! Does the analysis of DNA reveal anything, or the plaque found on their teeth?
Yes, look at current anthropology. There are peoples living in huts and brush shelters comfortably at the present time in the Amazon and Micronesia and Melanesia. Environment drives culture in many ways.
Yes that is also what I am thinking about. These are quite high skill for people that hunt and gather and only worked seasonally on the stones. You need a lot of practice. This was not the first time of these builders, and they have a higher or equal skill than most people nowadays that actually went to school for it.
In the medieval age it took atleast 5 years of constant carving and learning under a master to reach this level (look at the carved out lion on one of the pillars). Something hunter gatherers just don't have the time, knowledge and resources for.
@@williamkeith8944 Hi! Thanks for your informative reply! I meant in respect specifically to the findings at Gobekle Tepe. I was inquiring because it seems a huge leap in material culture to create such an advanced structure if this is being claimed as the first agrarian site for humanity, going from nomadic life to stationary life and cultivating crops and no evidence specific to these people transitioning, a progression. Maybe that's very difficult to find because the nomadic structures were very temporary... but all just my own amateur inquiry.
@@mver191 Hi! Nice of you to take the time, and so informative! Do you think that before this site is claimed to be the first agrarian site for humanity there should be more time to determine where the transition evidence is? Have you heard if they have sought DNA information too? I'm only amateur and not sure if DNA analysis reveals diet or not. Is that a good approach? Maybe DNA would only reveal diet... yet maybe a transitional diet... and not cross reference a date. Maybe they mean that so far in archaeological history this is the earliest dated site for agrarian society so far, perhaps already determined by carbon 14, mass spectrometry, and other means I'm not aware of where they have already dated this site. Great work they are doing at Gobekli Tepe in the amazing fields of specialization to determine from where homo sapien has evolved and progressed.
The skill of working with stone must have been present in order to create flint tools. The structures are not more technically advanced than this, except in the significant aspect of co-ordination of the efforts of large numbers of individuals, ie political/social advance. I am an architect not an archaeologist. I imagine a group of individuals with influence across a given area where a number of families lived with some stability, acquiring political and spiritual authority and co-ordinating seasonal efforts to construct these buildings. The opportunity/obligation to lead feasts would encourage the cultivation of certain plants in order to produce consciousness-altering beverages (beer) and bread, perhaps at other sites where microclimate and soil was known to favour such plants. Ancestor-worship would be acknowledged here too, under the guidance of “priests” or leaders.
This plus Derinkuyu Turkey is a truly historically amazing enigma
One must wonder if this site set the culture that led to the Towers of Silence of Zoroastrian Iran.
Always nice to hear rational people looking at the facts instead of people speculating endlessly about their favorite theory.
This is the best conversation I've heard yet on Gobekli Tepe. It would make perfect sense that it was a sort of "circle of life" center, and also probably why they have yet to discover any burials. I wonder if it's also possible that the purpose of the "T" shaped stones were to serve as roosts for vultures? I'm picturing people carrying the bodies of their loved ones up the hill to the "priests", who, after receiving an animal or some other offering, would prepare the bodies to be more easily consumed, then place them inside the circular areas with some sort of ritual fanfare. Then the vultures, roosting on top of the "T" stones would swoop down and clean the bones. Once cleaned of all meat, and possibly ritualistically cleaned by the priests, the bones would be given to the family members waiting outside. Possibly the areas were filled in after a specific number of bodies were processed, the priest or vultures passed away, I don't know. Anyway there's still plenty of mysteries to answer. I'm just glad they've been allowing people like Jens Notroff to do research there.
Omg - the perfect Stephen Milo video
It's been a long time coming for sure.
@@StefanMilo dude I'm pretty sure he just called you and old Turkish ruin
Mmmhh..
Not really, the plastic spoon is missing.
Sky Burial is not just in Tibet. Also the Zorastraian (Parsii) worship fire and have sky burial towers. The zorastarians were the original Persians were located in present Iran which is only few days travel from south east turkey. Also some native American indians also do sky burials! I wonder if the T could be beams to hold logs with place for dead bodies for sky burials. Insight tells me this is possibility. Would be great to see the the sky burials tower architecture and see if there is similarity. If this turns out to be linked could some one reference me for the original idea 🤔😉
Ive read Sumerian sites often included plastered skulls. A PHd thesis on that would be interesting.
Very very interesting episode. Congratulations!
Your videos attract great comments. Glad to join this community.
Great videos. Thank you.
PS: Trying to answer the question at min 40.45 is how I found you. The answer from Jens Notroff debunks IMO that conspiracy theory satisfactorily. It is sensational and the ones involved make a lot of money from it.
I have a question.
How did the builders get the skill to built this art wise? I mean, to reach this level you need a lot of practice and knowledge. And I doubt hunter gatherers had the time, knowledge, or resources to practice this.
There should be a long history of building and passing on knowledge of these structures in order to know how to move the stones, not break them, and carve them. And yet we find nothing anywhere. Not even small plates where they practiced on (like we do with clay tablets for example). The little statues from that time period found in the area seem to be much lower in quality also (typical barely recognizable prehistoric fertility statues).
It took in the medieval age years to reach this skill, and they were basically carving the whole day under a master mason.
A open and honest point! Well-asked, by the way. There is also the issue of food stocks needed. After all, the whole site seems to have been landscaped before any stone was moved. I mean, hunter-gatherers? If I was there, I'd say, "Why not wood, why such, big, heavy stones? And, what am I going to eat? If my entire extended family and I labor on this, exactly how are we going to gather or hunt food?!? And, exactly, how does this aid in our survival?!?". There would have to be ample proof that my concerns would be directly addressed, or, I wouldn't be involved. Not to mention security from all the dangerous animals, As I'd not be on guard during the day, and way too tired to guard, at night.
And of course, maintain human waste removal, as well as gather enough water and fire fuel for the site, daily.
@@supernautacus I agree. But are we actually correct about the dating? I've done some research and I've found some very compelling things related to the Halaf period :
"The Halaf culture is a prehistoric period which lasted between about 6100 BC and 5100 BC. The period is a continuous development out of the earlier Pottery Neolithic and is located primarily in south-eastern Turkey, Syria, and northern Iraq, although Halaf-influenced material is found throughout Greater Mesopotamia."
Now do you recognize this figure?
images.app.goo.gl/5AzYrWxqj47eRvqH8
It's exactly the same as the upper right figure next to the bag in the vulture stone. Even the geometric patterns seems to match. So aren't we misdating Gobekli Tepe by about 4000 years? Perhaps the site was founded 12,000 years ago, but everything we see is from a later culture 8000 years ago that simply reused the site. Everything makes so much more sense if it was from a much later date.
images.app.goo.gl/9SvRcbHPDq7hLWpr5
images.app.goo.gl/ikn5oC8zRqKxfVaB7
images.app.goo.gl/zomTmvMyPR2QJCVw6
go to about the 45 minute mark. you can see failed T's partially done. you can see the quarries too.
perhaps give our ancestors credit- they are just as smart as we are, just not as far along techwise.
supernautacus ell oh effing ell.
it is on a fucking mountain top- right next to the stone suitable for it. no trees around. this is on the Oryx and gazelle migration path- hence food supply. plenty of animal bones from said animals there from butchering.
This is basic info in the hour presentation. you really should put the comic books down.