Gobekli Tepe And The People Who Built It: A Conversation With Archaeologist Jens Notroff
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Jens Notroff, an archaeologist who has worked on Gobekli Tepe, joins me to discuss the ins and outs of a truly fascinating moment in human history!
Thanks so much to Jens for agreeing to this. You're welcome back anytime!
Learn more about Gobekli Tepe from the archaeologists working on the site:
www.dainst.blo...
Keep up with Jens here: / jens2go
Thumbnail by Ettore Mazza:
/ ettore.mazza
Storm of Steel Wargaming (give it a looky-loo)
/ @stormofsteelwargaming
/ stefanmilo
Disclaimer: Use my videos as a rough guide to a topic. I am not an expert, I may get things wrong. This is why I always post my sources so you can critique my work and verify things for yourselves. Of course I aim to be as accurate as possible which is why you will only find reputable sources in my videos. Secondly, information is always subject to changes as new information is uncovered by archaeologists.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
www.stefanmilo.com
Historysmilo
historysmilo
![ARGENTINA vs. CHILE [3-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 7](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/De3AWmXzhuA/mqdefault.jpg)
Love Gobekli Tepe? Then follow the Tepe Telegrams here! It's the blog actually produced by the archaeologists working on the site. www.dainst.blog/the-tepe-telegrams/
Big thanks again to Jens for having a chat on the channel. Hope you enjoyed it as much as I did! I know there's so much more to GT than we covered here. Anytime you or your colleagues want to chat Jens, pop on over to casa del Milo!
Idea for a new video; how the paradigms of archaeology have evolved over the years.
Stefan Milo, do you mind having a
discussion with SA NETER TV ?
It's a Pro Black channel with some
of the best scholars of world history.
I'm tired of Soo many European
scholars avoiding real FACTS just
because it will debunk a lot of
historical data taught at those
Whitesupremist universities.
Y'all do know that your not going
to get the chronologically correct
factual historical data from those
Whitesupremacy University. So
if you're not ashamed of your
research and European Ancestry
then I'm sure you'll be invited
to correct anything that OUR
scholars teach to US, the
Pro Black COMMUNITY ✌🏿
I want to know if they defleshed their own family members; and/or ate them, in a solemn cermemonial dinner, of course . . . with a side of greens. Sorry. I couldn't help myself. It's late.
Hunters lodge!!
Stefan Milo and Jens Notroff- Gobekli Tepe, especially enclosure D, seems straight forward to me, why is it that interpretations seem to be lacking from the multidisciplinary work on the site? Vulture, albatross, dodo bird... I have done my share of research and it sure looks like the main central monolith is standing on seven dodo birds that would represent the Pleiades. This is common in ancient symbolism as dominance over the underlining subject, such as the video of Iraq's Saddam Hussein statue being slapped with shoes when taken down and other ancient symbolism. The other monolith has a bull on its chest symbolizing Taurus. These two are surrounded by twelve pillars representing the constellations. The puzzle pieces fit very closely with the basically proven younger dryas impact theory which matches the dates of the catastrophe that changed the Pleistocene into the Holocene and of Gobekli Tepe. With the die-off of the megafauna and many humans, plus the extreme climate changes it is no wonder that agriculture is suspected to occur at this time. The Taurid Stream is on top of the list of suspects in astrophysics and is stated as such in mythology with the bull and the seven birds on its back destroying the world. This is why there was the Apis bull, the bulls at Catalhoyuk, bull fighting, veneration of the bovine in India, and the brindle ox...etc. Advanced civilization as in beyond what the majority have formed as a consensus such as the precession of the equinoxes known way before Hipparchus. Another example is the lapidary work on the obsidian mirror found in the same general area.
What an excellent chat. You should make conversations with archeologists like this a regular thing. Think of all the viewing hours :D
Just found your channel History Time, good stuff!
@@boagski just curious. What don't you think he understands? Not understanding implies someone else does or implied that there is a greater understanding being missed.
Andy from the information provided, I think a more reasonable assumption would be. People at that time, that we know had basic tools and a very nomadic lifestyle and lived all over the land surrounding. They found that place, with the greater protection, stability and benefits. Population goes up so the place is sacred and worshipped, attracts greater unity, more tribes. Big seasonal hunts are carried out. With that comes hundreds if not thousands or birds, which are trapped and hunted. Eventually so much progress is made they try to replicate the sacred architecture in tribute on other locations
I agree! There are so many on-going archeological long-term projects right now and updates like this are very helpful.
I just watched ur documentary on the sea people and the late Bronze Age just last night. Super well done good job man. I can tell u put a lot of time into those videos just wanted to lyk I appreciate it.
As a humble commercial archaeologist slogging away through a wet British winter it’s great to hear an un-sensationalised conversation about Gobekli Tepe. Jens was a great guest. Thanks to you both.
It is too bad that the bulk of online content about any given archeological site of interest is sensationalized and conspiracy theory-ridden BS. Stefan's work on RUclips is a manifestation of the most optimistic promises the internet offered us in its early days. I hope more people can make such contributions as our relationship with the internet continues to evolve.
Also not to hear Schmidt's - beginnings of religion nonsense.
What does a commercial archeologist do?
@@burgerbobbelcherI would like to know as well
@@burgerbobbelcher - I cannot say what this person slogs away at (mad respect for what s/he has to do in all weathers!), but my good friend, who owns a commercial archaeology company, is hired to examine various sites prior to digging and building as required by law - highways, big commercial buildings, airports, etc.
Halfway through this video I began to feel an intense gratitude. After so much wild speculation regarding the site and the sensationalistic assertions accompanying its debut in the popular press, this measured, reasoned, and careful discussion is such a relief. Thank you very much gentlemen. It’s hard to express the depth of appreciation for offering your time and effort to publish this on RUclips where it is free to any who are interested. It’s quite a beautiful gift you give your fellow human beings!
Whenever I go hunter gathering at the grocery store, I am very grateful for the invention of the bag.
Lol I don't get whats so remarkable? It had to of been one of the first inventions people even had. If not our ancestors lol. And...anyone can figure out how to make one simply and how useful it is.
or its not a bag but sunrises and sunsets.
...and the bascart.
All I can say is it is a good thing I don't have to hunt for my food. I don't even know where Tacos are native to, much less how to sneak up on them to catch them.
@@HaroldandEdge LOL! p.s. Always hunt for tacos on Tuesdays.
Really highlights the difference between a scientist and a conspiracy theorist. A scientist changes his story to match new evidence a conspiracy theorist changes new evidence to match his story.
What an excellent comment thank you! an Excellent video. It is a 3 year old video. Now we know they lived there and processed vast amounts of food, etc. Vast numbers of ground stone have been found there and living quarters. We know more now. What a great guest, so interesting!
What’s the conspiracy surrounding this topic? And who are the conspirators?
There are many many examples of corrupt and politically influenced science
@@Tara-Maya Generally the ancient alien stuff. But also people who make sweeping claims on very little evidence
@@nevid4694 hypothesizing is conspiracy theory? We should probably stick to the definition instead of changing the definition to fit the target.
I lived in Turkey for 5 years. The highlight of the entire trip was to visit Gobekle Tepe. Truly amazing
What's Turkey like? Looks great, but a personal perspective is always more informative
A five year trip? Wow, good acid. You hunt.
Did you get a chance to see the Fallout shelter Derinkuyu underground city?
@@IvoOtt I certainly did. Nevshehir, kapadokia.were the first places my 'guides' took me too. outstanding. 5 years later. Gobekli tepe was the final tour i took before leaving Turkey
Fusion it’s exactly what it’s always been. Just like Constantinople it’s a meeting of east and west. The river that divides instanbul is Europe on one side and Asia on the other.
As A roofer I would find it so easy to build a roof structure on top of the t shapes, ideal for load bearing like a lot of modern concrete t structures for motorway bridges etc.
Yes! Thank you! I agree 👍
I thought the same thing.
i think we underestamate our ancient times and peoples not hunter gathers.
I've always thought that as well, but no one ever mentions finding evidence of "roof" remains. Idk
Fair point. If you look how the T's are arranged thought I doubt this was the purpose.
Gobekli Tepe is amazing, but think about this: Skippy and Biff did not just decide to build these monuments one morning because they had the day off. GT shows developed stone working and stone carving skills, as well as developed art styles. This did not happen overnight, this took time. I want someone to find the workshops where they learned all these skills. it makes sense that there are earlier carvings and such out there that show the progress of the overall education in the skills and arts needed to create these monuments.
Cary Martin The skill is sitting for weeks in the sun and hitting a rock with a stone. 😐
Thank you for the intelligent comment. What has always amazed me about this site is the nature of the T pillars. Why are they there at all? They don't seem to have any structural purpose and seem unrelated to the mortar fee stone walls. They are the real mystery. They seem symbolic and the carvings of totem-like animals on them are really intriguing. The later complete burial of the site is also mind bending. All fantastic to me.
Agreed. The sorts of specialised stonemasonry skills needed to build this don't just emerge out of nowhere.
Not just the stone work but everything that goes into working on a large project. Organizing labor, organizing food production and distribution on a large scale with a large percentage of the population unavailable to help with it, not to mention all the astrological alignments and carvings with possible astrological implications.
They do discuss the villages in the region having similar workings, such as the T shaped pillars. Likely, in large part, these surrounding congregation are where these skills were developed and nurtured. Wood carving while remaining nomadic and small stone carving could be the root, then as people began to settle and stagnate their migrations, moving to larger projects would make sense.
Glad to see an actual SCIENTIFIC video on RUclips about this amazing site. So difficult to find these days. Thank you both so much.
Scientific? Seriously?
@@Wobbz9413 what?
I’ve been to Catalhuyuk and been inside the reproduced examples of the homes assumed to be 9000 years old. I’ve also lived in the SW of the United States. I was struck by the identical construction technique used at Catalhuyuk and the adobe houses of the Navajo. The same right down to the ladder entrance from the roof and the mud oven under the ladder. Also, the old cliff dwelling people buried their dead in the walls of their homes. At Catalhuyuk they buried them in the floor. Interesting
Very interesting comment and gt iş related to americas
@@mehmetkurtkaya3106 The pillars look almost exactly like the ones in Menorca too!
@@guillaumerusengo9371 cool. And there iş a probably reason for it.check my website or book if interested
man , its completley fake . military contractors built it in a war zone for rich guys to make money off of selling the right to excavate.
We dont live in a world of truth , but world of lies , especially on you tube .
You hear a naive story of research and honest money on you tube , think again .
You should be the first one to know , because your elders told you that this earth is not billions of years old
My elders showed me a calendar dating from the great flood , its now 7528 years since the flood . The calendar comes from the same place as this tample .
So if ppl who lived there 7000 years ago say there was nothing before that , then what else can it be , then a planted site , a fake tample , made to make money off of selling it .
Best comment EVER.
"This is where people began to became sedentary" 12000 years later the process is nearly complete...
In some corners of the world i fear we (they) haven't progressed much.
With the Corona pandemic right now, we are probably the most sedentary we have ever been.
The La-z-boy People led the way!
Possibly it will reverse and now we start migrating again. How many people live in the place of their birth these days? How many people work within only a mile of their homes?
Farming is NOT easy, but harder! Very labor intensive, nothing sedentary about it!
Some years ago I had the amazing chance to see Göbeklitepe in person as a teen who absolutely did not care even a bit about the trip, and I deeply regret not actually appreciating the astounding history behind it
Very grateful to hear from someone who has really been there and been a part of the study!!! So interesting, love it. Thanks!!
This is so amazing. I remember reading a story many years ago about a farmer finding a strange stone jutting out of the ground, and then Gobekli Tepe blowing my mind. Shining light on our ancient history is so important for our continued development as a species, especially as we usher in the next age of human kind. To all involved, thank you for the efforts!
Absolutely cracking interview Stefan. Interesting point about Beer being easier to make than Bread. I hadn't considerd that before but now I think about it it makes sense!
I know I had never thought about it that way either. Great video topic for you!
@@StefanMilo Already done it. ;)
Easier to consume too
I made beer and wine in Bozeman for many years. I was personally surprised at how easy it was to make. 9,000 years ago it would be just as easy.
Yeah but it tastes like trash!!
Thanks for asking the Question and a great interview. I look forward to the comments on this video...
Lol me too. I would love someone to seriously defend the idea that Denisovans built it.
Stefan Milo wait. That’s actually a thing people say?
@@cloudwaveASMRsleepsounds hhahahahah....2021, not a single comment....hahaha, you just portray yourselves..hahaha
I am 13 minutes in and I have to say great editing with the pictures, circles etc. It really helps in understanding the conversation.
Most informative and entertaining contribution on Göbekli Tepe on RUclips I've seen so far. Keep on going Stefan.
Late to the party, but this is really great.
Ah!! Hi Voices of the Past!! I love your videos
You honor your alias ;-)
Same here, I’m in love with his style! Quietly peeling off the layers and constantly keeping an open mind. Except for this topic and I have to admit I’m a sucker for this kind of “creative thinking”. I don’t think Hancock is deliberately playing his audience and he is truly personally invested in this topic. I keep an open mind, but then again, I have to, I’m a complete n00b
Great talk!
Only downside is that the RUclips is already recommending me more videos about ancient aliens and stuff.
...it's suggestive sales, huh ? Try 60 Days Millionaire pool... see what happens..
Those guys don't think humans are capable of anything without alien help haha
@@freefall9832 .. likely, they know Humanity is not capable of anYthing GOOD, without their help.
Shiela Marie Hankinson I think that a lot of assumptions are being made in this video, especially the effort to why does it even exist. Ritual, but why? What was the religion? Why backfill? The established accepted timeline makes no sense.
@@yuppy1967 .... assuming the concept of religion was invented yet.
Outstanding !! Thank you
From a Croatian who much appreciates your work. BTW there is also a local museum there with additional interesting pieces and arrangements of carved stones
There are sites in Australia, Bunya Mountain, for example, where hunter gatherer peoples, the aboriginals, would gather in their thousands to meet and have festivities. They were able to do this because there was a ready and abundant source of nutrition in the bunya nuts from the many large bunya trees. You can see rings in the older trees cut to facilitate climbing. Another site in the Carnarvon Gorge was a gathering place where aboriginal people have left thousands of artworks on cave walls.
Fascinating, thank you! Searching "Gobekli Tepe" on RUclips throws up so much rubbish, it's awesome to hear such a knowledgeable interview, thank you!
Thanks, this was great: intrigued by hunter-gatherer lifestyle. Another misnomer: agriculture is in irrigated rows of monoculture. Where I am (Saskatchewan) many indigenous ‘hunter-gatherer’ cultures were/continue to harvest wild grains and tubers in agricultural practices (wild rice, yampah, cat tails, bread root, spices & medicines, etc.), through reseeding & tuber division, not to mention fruit & nut management.
A greater misnomer is "Simple" Hunter Gatherers.
Laymen typically don't understand that "hunter gatherers" also cultivated crops. For a currently impossible to determine time, humans have put selective pressure on plants and animals that were beneficial to us.
I have eaten that wild rice and agree with you.
That is still gathering, not cultivating.
Having this podcast to hear during eastern holidays now is just perfect. Thanks to both of you guys!
How’d you know this would make my entire week?
It made me too
Thanks for posting this interview! In my opinion, the idea that historians underestimated late paleolithic peoples was a pleasant shock. Still, the most fascinating part about Gobekli Tepe (IMO) is not its implications, but what their culture was about. Was this place a massive hub? Did foraging and hunting parties go out, bring back a bounty, and make offerings to some kind of chief on behalf of their families? It could be a fascinating story!
Heyyy, guys. Since we can't figure out how to make a coffee mug, let's engineer a temple that will stand forever.
such is culture !
lol this is the reason why I don’t believe a word these idiots say. The site is only 10% excavated and he’s trying to tell me it’s built by hunters gathers who havnt even built a cup yet.
Hunter gatherers lmao..
Ok, who built it then? Fucking aliens?
@@basedtvrk9125 No. I think it was built by a previous human advanced civilization that must died off. I actually think that happened numerous times.
The fact that you're not just digging out the entire site and leaving things for your colleagues to find and research instead of taking all the credit is amazing.
The transition from circular to square could be interpreted by transition from tents, which are usually circular or with round corners, to houses, that are more easy to build and use if they are square
Your perception of houses makes a number of assumptions itself.
@@absalomdraconis That was just idea that hit me while listening to that interview. Its true, there are a lots of cultures building round houses through whole history. I cant proove it, but i would bet design changed with use of furniture. You can use better your space in square house. But i may be fully mistaken of course.
according to the size and extension of these structures, it does not seem to me, that it would be anyway more difficult or easier making square round or spheric tippis for those ...???? I guess humans....
@@bobwilson7684 not making, but using them... try to put shelf, or any other furniture to round, like tent, structure...
@@vladimircharvat7331 hahahaha........mmmmhahahahaha!
Awesome piece Stefan. One point - the concept seems to be overlooked that neolithic possibly harvested wild, baby birds and animals to then raise them in wickerwork cages, much in the same way traditional pate-de-fois-gras geese were raised. This would be a halfway house between hunter gathering and agriculture. We use tame wild Asian elephants in the same way - catching baby elephants then raising and using them for human purposes.
The best explanation for the 'bags' I have seen is that they represent the rising sun on the horizon, marking the solstice or equinox. One part of the glyphs depicting dates maybe?
I like the idea that Gobekli Tepe was part corpse sky burial site, part astrological observatory/ astrological story telling venue.
They didn't even start creating pottery and all of the sudden, they've organized and built a freaking prehistoric soho club?
you need a bar to serve drinks before you need something to put them in. evolution. or something.
Archaeologists and historians have limited themselves to the thinking that our ancestors couldn't have been smart enough to do a lot of things, yet loads of these things come up. We can't even fully conceptualise things done even less then thousand years ago, let alone tens of thousands of years.
@@navdeepkumar5085 ..and were done here. You win the entire comment section.
@@navdeepkumar5085 oldest skeleton of modern human (with this same brain size as us) is dated at 200 000 years ,let this sink in guys
@@navdeepkumar5085 Agreed. It's a lack of imagination, or locking themselves into a certain prejudiced position of what ancient man might have been capable of.
That was very informative. I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that slabs weighing up to 50 tons were carved using only stone tools, then smoothed into nearly perfect rectangular shapes. When I visited Giza, our tour guide explained that huge blocks of stone were quarried by the Ancient Egyptians using an ingenious technique: wooden wedges were inserted into cracks in the stone, then a great deal of water was poured into these cracks, which made the wooden wedges swell up and break the rock. The wedges and water did most of the work in separating large blocks of stone from the quarry; after that it was just a question of shaping, smoothing, and transporting the blocks. I wonder if the people of Gobekli Tepe already possessed some of these stoneworking techniques.
Fantastic interview, Stefan! I've only recently discovered your channel, but I love it, fantastic, thorough work - keep it up! :)
cant tell you how much respect and admiration i have for your work, man
oh wait i kinda just did!
z-class humour aside, keep up the excellent work! great content EVERY time i check back on your channel
Thank you for this video! Great topic.
Excellent interview. Great insight into an amazing site
Glad you like it! It really is a fascinating place.
@@StefanMilo poor mate, very poor...
thanks dude, so hard to find good information on archaeological sites with so many wacky ancient technology videos cluttering youtube. The unintentionally funny thing is that yes many civilizations had 'ancient technology' but it was quite simple and in a lot of cases ingenious (Egyptians in particular were a sharp lot that could work miracles with very basic tools). It disappoints me that so many content creators instantly discount what the human race can do with some motivation/belief and quite a lot of time on their hands.
I agree completely. I know those stones are big but I don't see why a gathering of say 50 people couldn't cut and move one??? Like Jens said, the quarry is right next to the site.
Fascinating conversation and very informative. Jens is a good, articulate speaker.
Loved the interview! Goblekli Tepe was one of the unknowns in my knowledge just as most of the topics you address. I could have listened to an hour more. This hour felt like a good anime episode, it was over before I knew it. Thank you very much!
Edit: You've got a new patreon supporter in me! You are the first content creator I deemed worthy.
It can be difficult to think of hunting/gathering cultures and sedentary lifestyles, but there is a very good example which I think will help one get a notion of what it was like; the people of the Pacific Northwest in North America. They were settled and yet clearly hunting and gathering through a long time period and in fact still are. I propose that for a long time the geography of that region would have provided a similar situation with their wild resources.
Brilliant example
Agreed ^_^
Hunter/gathers are supposed to be responsible for Gobekli Tepe? Oh, no way.
@@capitalisa - Open your mind.
@@capitalisaokay, Graham Hancock.
My difficulty is that before GT, the very definition of "hunter gatherer" included not having agriculture and not being able to produce megalithic stone structures. By definition. So what do we call a group that can do those things, if not a civilization that we just don't know much about yet? Calling them lost doesn't make it a "conspiracy", just a need to re-define our terms, and the understanding that goes along with it. Now, if it turns out that the term "hunter-gatherer" is being clung to in order to maintain our current dating theories about other megalithic structures.....That would be the conspiracy ......but a call to re-exam what people were capable of and at what point in history, regardless of what we call them, that is not a conspiracy and that work should go on with the best scientific methods and technology we have available.
Exactly this guy is a fool.
It is true that hanter gatherers wouldn't be able to produce that much super product to drive such a construction and what's more interesting is that the older parts are superior to those built afterwards and that's a sign of degredation of technique which is very strange.
@Nick Nack it is strange to me because i would expect a gratual increase in size and complexity and not the opposite. I mean does it make senee to build the largest and most difficult and technically demanding first?
@Nick Nack So an explanation would be that the newer parts could be better and more robust because the builders had the skill and knowledge to do it but they did not want to waste man power and resources to do it? Because the materials if understand correctly are the same so much for the old as much for the new parts.
@Nick Nack So even though there is no difference in the materials and the technique is clearly detoriorating meaning that the old builders knew more about building stone staff than the new builders, you stick to the village example where the materials are clearly different, and even though their foundation won't last that long their overall properties are essentially better and serve different purposes basedd on technological advancement. Everyone knows that the empire state building won't last as much as the pyramids but we all know that the empire state is much more advanced that the pyramids.
This is great!!! Thank you! We love your channel! Please keep up the good work!!
Just listening this great chat on my way to göbeklitepe. Thanks for this lovely and informative post. Loved it!
How was the visit?
@@ColdHawk it was great
I just find it so infinitely interesting some humans had a vision of something, a vision of something that has never existed before that point: a place where instead of few, many people gather. That wouldn't shift with changing fortunes of game, but remain, endure. Even across time. Where there are dozens and dozens of caves that shelter you from the elements and that keep you warm, tightly packed, yet they are not solid rock or even shaped by nature: they are to be built by human hands.
It's hard to explain something as grand as Gobekli Tepe (or the first towns in general) as just some iterative improvement. If not for the constituent elements that make up a town, then for the vision of putting it all together as a coherent singular concept and thinking that this might actually work. Someone truly must have sat at a fire, tens of thousands of years ago, lost in his thoughts, and had this picture in his mind. And managed to convince enough compatriots to convince enough strangers to set this in motion.
Edit: @43:18
Hearing Jens talk about how he would have a Netflix doc and book deals for discovering an ancient civilization is just too funny now that Graham's mini series came out! 😂
Graham Hancock's son is an executive at Netflix. The world still runs as it always has: it is all about WHO you know not WHAT you know.
You’ll notice that they remained hyper focused on Atlantis and aliens, but at no point did they debunk the Reptilian hypothesis. I consider this rock solid proof that lizard people are behind this site.
(But in all seriousness, delightful little interview, very nice.)
The Freemasons built this! Yeah why not...
Crazy people online. These are the same people who were holding "end of the world" signs just 20 years ago. Or just their kids. Stupid people breed like flies.
Thanks it was great Conversation about Gobeklitepe. I have been working since 10 years for Gobekkitepe and still working here.
I was worked with archeologists team and they already discovered 24 temples until now . Still the excavation is go on well . Here is zore of the life place .
Wow this guy was amazingly interesting. So many times I feel like things I’m interested in are maybe beyond my comprehension, but he explained everything so succinctly and vividly that I just loved everything he said. Thanks for sharing and asking the questions.
Thank you for covering this topic, definitely in my top five favorite ancient sites. I have always been confounded by the intentional burial.
Yeah, presumably they had a chance of belief for whatever reason.
Yup it's definitely pure speculation. As Jens says not all of the back filling may be deliberate.
As we can never ask them why, all we can do is speculate as best as possible with the evidence we have at the time.
A great discussion! I was wondering why no one seems to have considered Gobekli Tepe as the worlds first shopping Mall, like a Chinese "wet" market where everyone brings bats, monkeys or ducks, foxes, pigs, to sell or barter for goods... or snakes and spiders for magical potions. i think it a bit much to imagine that everyone from miles around would come just for religion, but they would have come for miles for the first flea market to barter their hunter-gatherer catch. David Shepard Assoc. Professor
They recently discovered multiple other sites around gobeklitepe that were built the same way and have the same style of statues!
I've recently been reading "The Smart Neanderthal: Cave Art, Bird Catching, and the Cognitive Revolution", a book by ornithologist Clive Finlayson about the interaction between neanderthals and birds over the course of their existence. I couldn't help but think about this book when you were discussing the importance of vultures at Gobekli Tepe, and the likelihood that it functioned as a funerary site where bodies were picked clean by vultures. One major trend Finlayson discusses is vulture bones found with cut marks that indicate that the birds were skinned so as to leave their pin feathers in tact, creating a sort of vulture feather cloak, which may have had religious significance, possibly indicating that neanderthals had some sort of religious reverence for vultures. This isn't unique to neanderthals, with Homo sapien settlements of similar age often showing similar behavior, but it's interesting to think that the rituals being performed at Gobekli Tepe may be part of a religious tradition in the region that extends back to the paleolithic.
Nietsche left a beautiful quote in German: “zuerst das fressen und dann die Moral“, meaning food first then morals. It makes sense that after an era of hardship, where food was hard to come by and survival was brutal, a period of more lenient climatological conditions led to a boom in cultural expression.
A “T” shaped pillar would also be easier to propel along the ground since there would be three push points rather than one.
Interesting to see how much change in the theories there has been regarding the site since this video was uploaded. Now they're saying that Gobekli Tepe WAS a residential site, and that bodies were buried there, etc. etc. Also other related sites have been unearthed and studied, shedding more light on the whole mysterious issue. I saw a video recently suggesting that the site for Gobekli Tepe was chosen because plenty of easily quarried rock was there, as the people had deforested the area using wood as a building material. So stone pillars weren't a deliberate move towards monumental architecture so much as a replacement for tree trunks. Or so they say until the next upheaval in the theories.
At Göbekli Tepe, handstones, grinding bowls and plates, mortars and pestles have been discovered in large numbers. You can make bread with flour and water, its doesn't have to be a brioche
It really good see 600k people have watched this. This shows interest of the people in hna history. Wish this number even higher
Notroff's accent and enthusiasm make me excited about a topic I didn't expect to get so interested in
So excited by the topic - and almost an hour's run time! Apologies for what RUclips is going to do with the fact that I'm going to have to watch it over several smaller sessions, so it's going to chalk up a bunch of "viewer didn't finish the video" points.
It all balances out in the end. I could've spoken to him for 5 hours easy lol. Hopefully he'll agree to a part 2.
@@StefanMilo 👍👍
It seems unlikely that this is the only structure of its kind from that time. I wonder if Jiroft in Iran, once it’s fully excavated, will be dated to about the same time period.
The _site_ is presumably not one of a kind, but it wouldn't be _too_ odd if it was the only one developed like this at the time. Given that this is very early in the history of stationary structures, it's very possible that this was a unique combination of stationary structure and potential funerary practice. On the other hand, it's also possible that the similar structures in local villages were even a decentralized form of the same.
I find it very unlikely that there is only one site like this in the world, and we just happened to find the only one in the world. It is likely that there are more.
Boncuklu tarla was recently excavated you should check it out
Oh man I was just telling my dad about this place. Great timing. Thanks Stefan
New subscriber- I so appreciate the professionalism of the content and links to additional sources. THANK YOU!
I hope to see this place completely uncovered before I die. This place is so amazing
Sky Burial is not just in Tibet. Also the Zorastraian (Parsii) worship fire and have sky burial towers. The zorastarians were the original Persians were located in present Iran which is only few days travel from south east turkey. Also some native American indians also do sky burials! I wonder if the T could be beams to hold logs with place for dead bodies for sky burials. Insight tells me this is possibility. Would be great to see the the sky burials tower architecture and see if there is similarity. If this turns out to be linked could some one reference me for the original idea 🤔😉
I became interested in the 10,000- 20,000 bce time period In the 1990’s when I picked up a history of mankind book by Issac Asimov and 10,000-20,000 bce was blank. No history recorded and I wondered why. Gobekli Tepe seems to me to be the key to our forgotten past.
Hi Stefan, could the depressions on top of the t shaped megaliths be from the people who buried the site when they were milling grains to feed the people.
Just a thought.
The T shaped pillars would have had a lot of time before they were buried in comparison to the rest of the site. In essence, maybe they were kitchen tables for the whoever buried the place.
Thanks Mark.
Excellent, thank you. Over the year since this was posted, it seems that natural slope wash and redeposition has become the preferred hypothesis for most of the burial of the site, rather than backfilling by human agency, seen there.
This is the best conversation I've heard yet on Gobekli Tepe. It would make perfect sense that it was a sort of "circle of life" center, and also probably why they have yet to discover any burials. I wonder if it's also possible that the purpose of the "T" shaped stones were to serve as roosts for vultures? I'm picturing people carrying the bodies of their loved ones up the hill to the "priests", who, after receiving an animal or some other offering, would prepare the bodies to be more easily consumed, then place them inside the circular areas with some sort of ritual fanfare. Then the vultures, roosting on top of the "T" stones would swoop down and clean the bones. Once cleaned of all meat, and possibly ritualistically cleaned by the priests, the bones would be given to the family members waiting outside. Possibly the areas were filled in after a specific number of bodies were processed, the priest or vultures passed away, I don't know. Anyway there's still plenty of mysteries to answer. I'm just glad they've been allowing people like Jens Notroff to do research there.
Thats's fascinating,dude! Have you tried DMT?
Bruh....
Bruh....
Oscar Ecsedi joe rogan would be proud
Adumb Earthling
ruclips.net/video/I6latJFux7E/видео.html
Bruuuuuh
Well done Milo and Happy Easter. Interestingly, bedroom Internet researcher number 1, "Ancient Architects", is regularly being quoted as an archaeological "expert" in the Daily Express.
Well if it's in the Express it must be true!
@@StefanMilo here you are ruclips.net/video/2HymX4SyywY/видео.html
Reality will be real no matter what is said. Everyone needs no set their egos down. It's hard, humans inherently love to present themselves
I wonder what it was like when the place still had that new Tepe smell?
Was very fortunate to visit the site! So incredible!
This channel is so under rated still
I just want Jens to say "Get to the choppa!"
🤦🏻♂️
With so little of the entire complex yet to be uncovered I find it a bit preemptive to discuss what this really was
No, it isn't.
I COMPLETELY AGREE AND THE FILL IN OF THE SIGHT BuryinG IT WAS DONE PORPUSLY, GRAHAM HANCOCK SAYS WW HAVE NO IDEA HOW OLD IT TRULY IS 50% OF IT'S STILL UNDERSTAND.
Welcome to archeology. No data and lots of assumptions yet they call it a science
people love to gossip
@@charlesradford7495 Why would anyone care what an astrologist thinks?
This plus Derinkuyu Turkey is a truly historically amazing enigma
Always nice to hear rational people looking at the facts instead of people speculating endlessly about their favorite theory.
Happy Easter!
This video got drowned by news - and it is so long without me getting a notice. I would have carved out the time to eatch it carefully more than once if I had known! 😍
Unfortunately, I am still Eastering and I will have to wait 😭
I am so excited and grateful for this 🥰 but I really don't have the time to watch - or to write this comment - so for now I can merely wish for you in writing a very Happy Easter!
I'm so happy that you and your loved ones are well enough to give you the time to dedicate this gift for us ou here!
Thank you - that is good of you! And that is the highest remark I sincerely give! 💚
Thank you - and despite my beliefs 😊 Happy, blessed Easter! May you be appropriately appreciated! 🙏❤️
Now I want him on the Joe Rogan podcast, discussing Graham Hancock
Trystelune what is the truth?
@@TheRick8866 The truth is what really happened, not the fanciful nonsense that Hancock is banging on about.
Hancock will not agree on that because he is butt hurt real archeologists and historians don't let his bullshit slip.
23:38 I would like to hear what Jens was about to say here. Suddenly he's nolonger considered the expert ? I'm hanging onto his every syllable and the conversation is stepped on, Jens corrected, and we're wisked away in another direction ....
The so-called called engraved "vulture" doesn't fully represent the characteristics of any currently known vulture, especially with the rounded head. The image is more likely a mix of man and vulture/raptor - an avianoid - which are found in Upper Paleolithic cave art and ancient traditions.
One can ask an ornithologist or look it up - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulture
You know who was known to be the earliest 'tamer' of falcons and wore elaborate headdresses made from their feathers and talons?
The Neanderthals.
@Jeff Caplan How do you know it was Neanderthals?
@@CChissel Recent research in the last ~10 years has uncovered a lot we previously did not know about the Neanderthals. They were quite the advanced, tool-users.
www.audubon.org/news/did-neanderthals-catch-and-kill-golden-eagles-their-feathers-and-talons
@@CChissel because he does drugs
This was a fascinating discussion, thanks for posting.
Thanks Stefan and Jens, lots of interesting info. What is mind boggling to me is that there's no pottery of any kind at Gobekli Tepe...hard to imagine carving 20 ton stone pillars 3000 years before getting around to inventing the coffee cup. I guess that's definitive proof of no previous advanced civilizations passing on knowledge to the Tepeians.
This is absolutely fascinating! Thank you both for all of your work!
Would the top of the "T" shaped standing blocks support a timber roof?
This guys comment answers yours...
John Allright
10 months ago
As A roofer I would find it so easy to build a roof structure on top of the t shapes, ideal for load bearing like a lot of modern concrete t structures for motorway bridges etc.
One thing I haven’t heard as an explanation for the seemingly obscure site chosen for the location of Gobekli Tepe is a mass prey migratory route. Something like the Buffalo in America. Just a thought...
Jens said that the antelope and other animals would be down in the valleys.
Johanna Geisel yeah but for a site like that it’d have to be an annual mass migration of millions upon millions of animals... not just your usual antelope hanging out in the valley below.
The point at 44:42 regarding the archaeological definition of civilization was really interesting and significant. I think a lot of the traction in the public mind of lost civilization theories when it comes to sites such as Gobekli Tepe is do to this cognitive dichotomy between primitive hunter gatherers and advanced civilizations.
That dichotomy may exist in our present world, but primarily because hunter gatherers have been forced off of all the best, most fertile land on the planet by agricultural societies. Back during the Neolithic (and even in later periods), there was lots of room for a large gray area between what we think of as primitive hunter gatherers and advanced settled peoples, where groups such as those who constructed Gobekli Tepe would have existed.
Thanks so much! I’m joining your Patreon group. I don’t pay for 300 channels of crap on offer from American cable companies. I feel I’m getting a much better value by supporting you and your interesting topics!! TYVM
Omg - the perfect Stephen Milo video
It's been a long time coming for sure.
@@StefanMilo dude I'm pretty sure he just called you and old Turkish ruin
Mmmhh..
Not really, the plastic spoon is missing.
Will you ever cover Gunung Padang?
Perhaps the T shapes were used to lay planks between, on which they laid down their deceased for the vultures. Believing the vultures would then take the spirit of the person to the sky. Probably the sun.
And this is what is depicted on the vulture stone imo, and not a meteorite impact. The 'smoke tail' on that stone coming out of the sun (meteorite) means to depict the sun is a door to this realm of the dead. The 'smoke' pattern itself indicates it is a field, the handbags with animals mean there will be an eternal amount of these animals 'gifted' to hunt and eat on these fields.
Just look at the pattern. It's clearly a field. The stone with the ducks/birds has the same kind of background, but then a watery pattern.
It is basically stone age heaven, with the sun being the portal for the dead to enter, to which they are brought by vultures eating their corpse.
Perhaps every generation raised a stone, and when they die they would be placed on a plateau or plank connected to their parents stone. These planks/plateaus would lay atop the stones to make it easier for the vultures, therefore needing the T shape for stability and a more spacious plateau for the vultures. They would built in circles to save space and every family had their own circle. And when it was full, they started another one. Perhaps they would cover up full circles so that nobody else could use it, to 'seal' this circle in some way for eternity, or simply to make room for new ones. They likely no longer had their function since bones (likely skulls) would be collected as reminders for ancestors (Which explains the figure without a head on the vulture stone) and nobody else could reach heaven anyway with these stones. These stones were functional and highly private. If you were 'buried' atop the stone that other people raised, or was not linked to one of your parents or ancestors you would not reach (or be guided to) the eternal fields and go to a hellish underground realm full of scorpions and snakes (As depicted on one of the stones).
One day I hope to be able to see or stand in or even touch a man-made item so monumentally old as Gobekli Tepe. The closest I've been is some mining towns up north from me and museums and monuments in DC, even going to see the Colosseum in Rome or the Great Pyramids would probably make me cry when I first go there. I absolutely love all the info about Neolithic proto-religious monuments, it's just fascinating
It is always exciting to find pre-agricultural monumental architecture.
stop shilling for big archaeology and smoke DMT bruh
I'll have you know I am always on DMT!
@@StefanMilo Aren't we all stefan. Aren't we all.
Too late he's a dad now.
The amount of Graham Hancock related jokes in this comment section is glorious.
Sam
ruclips.net/video/I6latJFux7E/видео.html
Ive read Sumerian sites often included plastered skulls. A PHd thesis on that would be interesting.
This was great. Thank you for the insight both of you, as I haven't heard enough from people tangibly involved with such projects. One critique would be the issue of shared construction methods, cultural anomalies, and artistic depictions throughout ancient sites in Bolivia, Peru, Egypt, Lebanon, Indonesia etc. The evidence for large pre-YD cultures, and information sharing extends far beyond the notion that Gobekli Tepe was a remnant of a survivor culture. I'm afraid your careful speculation (Which I of course favour) does not extend to the careful dismissing of alternative history theories, for which I've become a proponent over the years. Thank you again for this video.
Absolutely. Fantastic. Video. Stefan, I just ran across you this evening, and have watched several of your videos. I've loved every minute of it. I understand why a lot of people crave the idea of incredible, super-advanced civilizations being around in the past. Sensational stuff like that gives us a thrill. And if the purveyors of those theories can also add in a COVER UP, well, that just totally golden. I'm really glad you're out there bringing some sanity to the whole subject.
@Ginnungagap Yes, no kidding. Those peeps pulled off some really amazing stuff, and I'd love to know EXACTLY how they did it.
@Ginnungagap Well, actually I don't. I guess I assume it was just brute muscle of a lot of people. Maybe with simple mechanisms like rollers and levers and so on. How could it have been anything else?
@Ginnungagap Did you even listen to Stefan's objections to Dr. Hancock's theory? They're sound. The idea that a "high civilization" would have traveled the world, sharing knowledge of agriculture, but left ABSOLUTELY NO TRACE of themselves in the patterns of crop migration, population genetics, or archaeology is fairly ridiculous.
If you actually knew me and had a full picture of my online activities you'd know that I'm in fact on the "open minded" side of the spectrum - I support the possibility of a number of things that mainstream science rejects, and I'm sure some scientists would accuse me of being "fringe." I don't necessarily think any of those things MUST be true, but I see them as possibilities.
Just as an example, I absolutely don't rule out the idea that there might have been some population center that got taken out by the big meltwater pulses back around Younger Dryas time. Maybe even one on some mid-Atlantic ridge islands that would correspond to Plato's writings on Atlantis. Some of those people might have migrated at the time of the sea rise over to Sumeria - there has to be SOME good explanation for why Sumerian is a language isolate compared to Akkadian and the other languages of the Fertile Crescent region.
But when you start piling too much onto that story - when you start attributing truly sophisticated technology similar to ours today to such a "lost" civilization, or when you start making the whole thing depend on some kind of psychic powers that we have no trace of today, and so on. it just becomes unbelievable.
This happens *all the time* online - someone starts with some reasonably plausible points, and just keeps at it until the become ridiculous and, yes - worthy of being mocked.
I am open minded, but not stupidly so.
Take care and stay safe.
You've gotta admit that some of those columns look really really perfectly produced!! Has anyone ever replicated a column with the orthodox accepted tools!?