... what about BONCUKLU TARLA? | Uncovering the real star of Middle Eastern archaeology.
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Göbekli Tepe is great and deserves the attention it gets.
But does it have the right kind of attention?
There is another site in S.E. Turkey that is probably going to turn out to be far more important than its more well known contemporary. It was longer lived than Göbekli Tepe, predated it, spanned the Younger Dryas and is producing more material culture.
Let’s talk about Boncuklu Tarla.
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My wife is Turkish and her family is from NE Turkey, Artvin area. Her family say in the past the people would use dark closed off spaces, caves I assume, to store food etc. The area is very mountainous so these places were aplenty. If you didn't have these places at hand I guess people would dig down to create their own "cave". I've been going to Turkey for over 20 years and lived there for 7 years, everywhere you go you find ancient archeology. It's unbelievable to be honest. After a while you become a bit blasé about it. Everyone focuses on the Greek/Roman stuff because it's easier to explain and talk about, but there are so many sites way way older. Incredible country. You should definitely go!!
The Greek/Roman left written records we can still read.
no, because Greek and Romans created actual culture, our culture
soon we will be more interested in how much we changed after mixing with Neanthertal than about some old rocks without any meaning for our cultural roots
that are more north
at least considering most of scientists doing research
did you see Asian scientists interested in these places? 😂
@@szymonbaranowski8184 stupid troll comment
I'm thinking about moving to Turkey. Why did you move back?
@@szymonbaranowski8184 not much writing on ye olde stone hendge
It's insane that I went through college and graduate school and never heard of any of these sites or the younger dryas. There's a very limited world view that traditional education gives you. I had to learn of these things on RUclips and NETFLIX! smh
You have inadvertently stumbled on a topic mentioned by Samuel Clemens. "Never let your schooling interfere with your education!".
Well that’s because these were all basically new and recent discoveries
but be aware a lot of stuff on youtube is fantasy realm. this channel seems genuine.
What universities did you go to ? What was the area of study ? How long ago ?
When I was young our geography teacher introduced us to the then new concept of continental drift. She was excited by it but told us that there was discussion as to whether it was real or not. So much is still being learned about our past. Some old artefacts are being re examined using modern scientific techniques are changing our ideas.
I went to Turkey in 2017 to look at ancient sites and said at the time that there'll be enough to keep archaeologists busy in Turkey for the next 500 years. I believe there's so much more to find over there
I think the same can be for all the earth -- if we can only look with open eyes. Everywhere should be examined with LIDAR.
@Friendly One I totally agree!
People don’t realize the amount of history in that area. Mexico is the same way but to a lesser extent.
@@Anonymous-ip4qx a female archaeologist in Mexico found bones that were extremely old. She was completely derided by fellow archaeologists and told she must be wrong, although they were found very deep. So I expect any findings in Mexico like that, were kept hidden.
@@friendlyone2706 I agree with you.
There’s nothing to suggest there weren’t as many geniuses living 14,000 years ago as there are today, but we somehow tend to think of ourselves as the smartest group that’s ever lived
I tend toward that prejudice. Reading your comment was refreshing. Yes! Of course, people haven't changed that much. It's our tools that changed, and that is inevitable.
Yes, I suppose tools may just be the expression and the fabrication of our collective knowledge and ideas, designs, our fears, our needs, etc. taking us from clubs and spears to aerospace and the internet.
Thank you for the comment! I wholeheartedly agree. People tend to think that our early ancestors were all brainless brutes - to be fair, I'm sure there were some running around then, just like today. 😂
I guess some folks want to be special in this existence; reality is too boring for them, so the often heard phrase of: "It must be aliens," or, "It must be super duper advanced civilization with lasers and flying vehicles!" 🤦🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
Lolled at brainless brutes, even today. Their gene pool dies out over generations, but they seem to be reborn
It's NOT 14,000 years old. Sewage Systems, weaving, Copper works, jewelry n much more will Prove they existed Closer to our Time - Ancient Middle East Empires that we know.
It's Not just One site; it's SEVERAL TEPES.
What are Academics missing. This is a Time Closer to ours; not older SMH
Carbon Dating WILL be proven Invalid Again.
Imagine if all the governments would take the energy they put into war and put it into geological expeditions what wonderful things we would discover!
Or the Catholic Achives.
The problem is that there are too many with violent and extreme intent who will destroy history when it doesn’t suit their political, ideological or religious beliefs. This has happened since Homo Sapiens evolved. This has been seen in Afghanistan, Iraq and other places more recently.
Archiologists always assume that mankind were not developed enough to produce things like irrigation and sewerage systems over six thousands years ago. How we think in terms of health and welfare would have applied to them also. To keep disease away from communities a sewerage system was built. Clean water essential to good health. Think about it, we are them and they are us, no different same hopes same fears needing a sense of security for their people. Although we have technologies that have improved our life style's, who knows what kind of natural energies that were their technologies used to improve thier lives. For example natural stones have their own energy vibration. The site of 100,000 bees probably shows evidence of a business centre producing honey for all the surrounding areas. Perhaps some bartering going on. The evidence of pieces of cloth and carvings as evidence shows how advanced they were.They were not just hunter gatherers sat twiddling their thumbs. They, it seems were proactive humans.
@@lynnabdi6093 That's very interesting!
They don’t want humanity feeling wonder.
I was lucky enough to have taken an archaeology course with a professor who was among the first few excavation crews at Çatalhöyük back in the 1960's. He *loved* showing us his slides from the site, & he was always very confident that future archaeologists would continue to find earlier & earlier evidence of us humans working together to survive & thrive.
Excellent 👍
Too bad Corporate-fascist capitalism has created a world where such crucial cooperation among human beings is increasingly rare
@@magiccarpetmusic5977 thank God for the capitalism. Otherwise we would be ruled by sadistic communist dictators.
@@magiccarpetmusic5977I could bet you live in a city? Probably in a apartment???
I think our human history goes far back in time even more than what has been uncovered
We only see why the victors of pat conquests allowed to survive. Imagine the cultures that weren’t masters of warfare that are gone. What kind of amazing societies were out there who just didn’t have the monopoly on violence?
Lost architecture styles and great works.
@@soupstheman143 Probably hundreds to thousands
modern humans have lived on earth for at least 300 thousand years. We have done everything modern civilization in about 2000 years. It could have happened before
Definitely. Many 10s of thousands of years at least.
I think one day we're going to find Neanderthal settlements close to what these are
The Anasazi in New Mexico had beautiful underground temples called kivas. They had a roof covered ring with windows around the outside about a foot high above the ground through which light filtered into the kiva, giving the inside a mysterious, tranquil, awe inspiring a twilight aspect. I was moved to a reverent silence upon entering. The Anasazi believed that creation was born of the Emerging Woman, and the kiva represented her womb.
The kivas were ritual structures exclusively reserved for men. They were also places where weaving, which, rather unusually, was a male activity, took place.
They prefer Ancient Pueblonians as Anasazi of derogatory.
However, these sites in Turkey predate those American sites by at least Ten thousand years. And that matters.
The idea of a "kiva", Sunken ceremonial building, council gathering place etc out of the sunlight appears in a number of cultures, as well as underground food storage. It will be interesting to see what comes of this site. Very interesting.
It's not so much that "Anasazi" is derogatory as it just don't comport with what the Hopi claim. The Hopi claim to be descendants of the Puebloans, and Anasazi literally means "ancient enemy." So it's more a misunderstanding between cultures like the Navajo, who were effectively invaders of Northern az from Canada at the time, and the Hopi, who have been there for thousands of years in some form or another, and the people writing the mix of archeology and the integrated oral traditions. The first writers to popularize Anasazi kinda stepped in 700 year old turf war drama. But it's also hard to get Hopi to actually sit down and talk to us gringos unfiltered, since they don't talk about it to outsiders as a kind of policy, where Navajo are happy to tell their side. Hopi will talk to good friends and family, but not some outsider with a pen and microphone.
The more you talk about the area the more excited I get for the film! I just love discovering the history of us all lol❤
Sites have been found in the American states bordering the Great Lakes where almost pure copper (as opposed to ore requiring refining) was found and worked into jewelry and ceremonial weapons well before the functional use of metal of any sort is known to have occurred .
I read some time ago of a site in central Africa (I forget which country but might have been Congo Republic) where traces of copper smelting from the same era as the earliest in the middle east have been found. It appears that this occurred as a separate thing all over the place more or less at the same time.
@@henchy3rd I had asked a similar question - is the copper found native or smelted, I was also thinking of the same N.American location. If the copper is smelted then that is very significant.
@Kelly Harbeson - it seems copper, like some other metals (gold, lead, and probably a dozen others I don’t know about) are present in fully metallic form at various places in the world, and can be worked without the intense heat required for smelting. But it doesn’t occur often, and few to none of these materials can hold as keen an edge as a knapped flint knife, for instance. As many of these softer metals are pretty, their use in ceremonial or ornamental objects would make them very desirable as status and/or wealth symbols. There existed well-made tools and millennia-old methods of doing what was required, so until someone worked out the methods needed for most metal work, any such objects would have been more valuable as luxury items.
Maybe because there was a more advanced civilization than we give them credit for? Mainstream archaeology is a disaster
Hit the like button y'all. Give these guys a thumbs-up. They deserve it. 🎉
I was 420! Lol!
I did :)
Two old men talking about even older people? I'm here for it. Very interesting period in human history.
They do not deserve a thumbs up. No pictures, except for one for a few seconds. Just blathering with political correct archaeology. So banal!!
"stuff just keeps getting older" I love it!
The "Communal Buildings" sound similar to the Kivas of the American Southwest. They are circular, subterranean ritual spaces entered through the ceiling.
Edit: Not saying these are ritual spaces, just similar to Kivas in a broad sense.
Same thought I had....
Thats the same thing i thought. Like the ones i saw at the pueblo duelings in Colorado.
Well, that was my exact thought. I have visited the Kivas in the American southwest of actually several of them from Chaco Canyon all the way through to Mesa Verde, which covers several thousand kilometers, and is reminiscent of what appears to be very similar construction to this site, which is of course, thousands of years older When I first visited these sites, I went with my father, who has since passed. It was quite a few years ago, and he was surprised regarding the Kiva saying that they had similar to kivas structures in the Pyrenees mountains, which I have not seen any literary evidence of myself, but he had personally seen them. I also have an interest in the prehistoric civilizations, and, with that being said, they’re also found very similar in further down in South America all the way down to Patagonia, where they had similar structures being found not as a prominent part which, Let’s say is more in the pyramidal structures, but the Kiva or circular underground structures, and that’s what I will call them since that was my first Knowledge of them did remind me even with Göbekli and other sights of Anatolia and now with these new discoveries very similar cultures in terms of the beads and everything that was that was also found at especially Chaco canyon and the way it was structured where the central locations are the circular underground structures, and the residences were to the side even in Jordan actually, the older sights were entered through the ceiling And just fascinating the extreme differences in the dates of similar ancient cultures.
I have read about them long ago in a Tex Willer comic.😂
Ice Cores from Greenland and the South Pole contain proof 90% of the time over 900k years, earth was dominated by Glaciers & Deserts. The present 14,000 years period is Goldilocks.
You guys have a wonderful, practical, common-sence approach to archaeology. So enjoyable to watch these videos.
It goes way past 13,000 years too!
We are looking at a recovery, not a beginning!
Ahh! I’ve finally found a RUclips channel that really gives factual researched information about these amazing places and discoveries. I appreciate that the gentleman on the right was keen to have things edited out when he wasn’t sure if the information was 100% accurate. But I’m glad that those bits were left in. It made it clear that you’re only interested in the facts, and also let’s us hear the full conversation. I’m now subbed.
But how can it be all fact when we're guessing who and what and how they lived. I know of specific dating but we can only guess as to why they did things.
@@marshferguson4737 And all radiometric dating is very suspect. They are constantly revising dates one direction or the other
Seeing an image of a dwelling from a top-down viewpoint immediately brought to mind a dwelling, or series of dwellings, that have been partially restored on the very southwest tip of Baffin Island in Canada's arctic! These dwellings, sunk into the ground, are attributed to the Thule culture, supposedly living in that region 3500 yrs ago. In this case, at Kinngait (previously called Cape Dorset), the site is about 200m from the shoreline. There are about 6 to 8 separate units, all arranged sort of as a single "townhouse". They are about 12 x 12 ft square, with a raised "bench" along the back wall opposite to the doorway. The doorway is made from two upright stones with a third stone set horizontally across. It is about 3ft tall so one has to crouch down to enter.
Wow! Thanks for sharing this❤
Reminds me of Skara Brae in the Orkney Islands, Dating to much the same time period.
Have I told you lads lately how grateful I am for you? Cause I am. Thank you, Michael and Rupert. You're doing very important work and I'm very grateful for all the effort you put in to all that you do. And as I always say: never forget what quoits means to me.
The mystery that sets Gobekli so far apart from everything else is the distinct lack of evidence for human habitation dense enough to support such structures, and moreso, the why and how did they bury it intentionally.
Yes, and BONCUKLU TARLA is WAY more significant.
@Segkee
Why? How do you know it's more significant? Finding an old village, even large old sophisticated village happens but Golbkle Tepe is not a village but it's still large and the stonework is astonishingly sophisticated but it was intentionally buried, not destroyed-
How does one justify all the extra work?
Destroying the site in a conquest is work that can be justified but even coming up with a reason to do the work of building a non-residential site like that would have been difficult, justifying all that time & energy on a project that doesn't provide food or shelter would have taken a rather persuasive argument but it is productive activity.
If people don't need it anymore they normally just abandon it, instead they carefully buried the whole site, why put out so much effort to do that?
Something of singular significance is responsible for that.
@@robdeskrd wow. This is a new one for me. Is there a conspiracy tied up with Gobekli Tepe? Why are you so dogmatic in protecting its status? You sound like the archelological mainstream protecting the origins of the pyramids? Fascinating how that happens. How radicals become the status quo and then fight like dogs to maintain and minimize any other finding. Yuck.
They're saying this village may have similar architectural techniques, that it shows advancement 5000 years prior to Gobekli tepe, that they used copper (at least in their art work). Who cares if it was intentionally buried? We bury lots of buildings and rebuild on their foundations. What exactly is your logic here? You realize Gobekli Tepe and Boncuklu together begin to support a new human history of development that significantly precedes the agricultural revolution? You guys get so fixated you can't see the bigger picture. Shame on you.
Conquest and colonisation perhaps?. Easier to fill in the temple to stop worship, than dismantling. (A Bit of church-burning is going on in Ukr right now...banned language, etc). Things change,...human nature, not so much?.
@@duellingscarguevaraUsurors wars are great debt creations.
Thank you for all you guys do. I'm a brand new watcher as of today and love the content I've seen thus far! Thank you!
That makes two of us 😅
Just found you guys. Look forward to seeing more videos on this amazing true history. We have been lied to from the beginning.
Those Tash Tepeler, Jericho, Jordan, why don't we call them as proto-civilization. Those guys truly have a sense of cultural continuity and progress.
The beads are very sophisticated. Most of them appear to be stone. It takes a lot more skill to put holes in stone than clay. Very beautiful, and not unlike much of my own treasure.
@@Natty1620 The scorpion motif might be a clue there?
The sheer amount of beads make me think it's a production centre for these items, and that points to trading which points to travel and communication between different populations. There are similar sites elsewhere in Europe that are production centres for other items - stone axes in Transylvania I believe, flint axes in SE Britain etcetera - and these items are found hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away from where they were made. So, to me, over 100,000 beads points to a larger amount of sophistication than just imagining these people making their little jewellery items while sitting round the fire.
They are beautiful! Great pieces of art and sophistication!
@@ThunderboltWisdomwe
I have found that what you two find fascinating I also find fascinating very fascinating and even extremely fascinating thank you. I am impressed by the sewerage system as well . I am glad you aren’t snipping out your thoughts and what appears to be something that makes you uncomfortable Rupert . I am left wondering what you found sweet. I look forward to seeing more . My biggest regret is that I don’t always comment to let you both know how much I appreciate your work. Thank you 🌟🌺🍀💝🍀🌺🌟👍👍👍👍😘💓💞💓🥰🥰🖖🖖🖖🖖🌟🌺🍀💝👋🧝🏼🤚🎆🎇🌠🎇🎆
I watched a migration video of the R1 haplogroup, 24,000 years ago R1 was first discovered in modern day Mongolia, its seems our ancestors who are R1 migrated from around Sundaland from around 40,000 years ago and decided to migrate north and become mammoth hunters. Then when we started approaching the glacial maximum the R1 people migrated to the Ural mountains and here is where the split of R1a and R1b occurred and we resided either side of the Ural mountains with R1b settling on the western side and R1a on the eastern side and we where here from around 22,000 years ago to 18,000 years ago. Then we migrated again, some of us settled in modern day Ukraine and Anatolia but we didnt stop there and we kept on going south into the Fertile Crescent and the Levant, but again some people carried on going and bizarrely went back into Africa around 14,000 years ago and settled in the Sahara in the African Wet Period around 14,000 years ago. So think of what happened in Mesopotamia/Levant around 15,000 years ago, there would have been hunter gatherer native populations coming into contact with a much culturally and ethnically different people then out of this period we begin to see much more complex cultures developing. My theory is we need to go to the Ural mountains and have a proper search for what these people where actually doing from 22,000 years ago to 18,000 years ago as this is the period previous to farming and domestication. From here we go south and then the world changed forever did these people bring in new technologies or was it a coming together of peoples that created a new technologies as it seems coincidental that civilisation begins when R1 people migrate into the area and we start seeing real dwellings, it's like the Tower of Jericho why was it constructed was it because the migration of R1 people through the Levant created conflict with native populations and they needed defensive structures to fend off these roaming hunter gatherers as it seems there are proto towers like Jericho in the Levant at other sites...
i find the revealing nature of genetics fascinating and frustrating simply cause i dont understand it at all
@@kp-legacy-5477 its crazy how they do it, Europeans also had a hybridization event with a yet to be discovered species at some point that is not on the Neanderthal lineage of evolution and it is believed it happened around the Arabian peninsula and im not entirely sure when the dates are on that though as this is just emerging...
"...our ancestors..."?? Who are the 'we' you are addressing??
@@edelgyn2699 the R1 haplogroups, I thought that was obvious because the comment is about the migrations of the R1 haplogroups, even a 5 year old could tell this...
R1a is fully related with corded ware and eurosteppe R1b too but not fully
so nope they were related before splitting and both represented the same language
if they had split by mountains it would be impossible to keep the same language
Fascinating. Human tools, buildings, settlements, and society 13,000 BCE. We still have much to learn about ourselves let alone the universe.
Fascinating...i have the gut feeling that Boncuklu Tarla will not have the last word ... at any rate i love the fact that the Victorian twits are being consigned to the rubbish heap...
I've just added another life goal! I would absolutely love to go on an archeological dig for a while at a place like gobekli tepi or this! I have wanted to do such a thing somewhere for 50 years! I couldn't afford it then. I can afford it now at 67. But I'm a damned healthy 67!😊
Good luck with that. I hope you get to go. You should contact a nearby college that may be working on prehistoric site. A little experience could be your foot on the door?
Is Earthwatch still around? They were an academic “vacation” organization.
A cellar? A place to escape extreme winds or tornadoes? So interesting to ponder what might have been so long ago.
What a discovery !
And such a learned introduction.
But there should have been more pictures.
Thanks for widening our horizon.
It would be interesting to hear a discussion about the climate and natural resources available to the people who built these sites. The situation 10,000 to 13,000 years ago was certainly a lot different than it is today. Bottom line, without abundant sources of food and water nearby, they would not have had the time and energy necessary to build these structures.
Good point ! I know water levels were much lower as the ice sheets were covering Northern Europe and North America . Most of Turkey at the moment is pretty hot and desolate vegetation wise , i wonder was it any better back then ?
at that specific juncture, I wager that any humans were trying to survive the aftershock of the Younger-Dryas Event ... which may in itself provide some answers to the "buried" nature of the site
Amazing story and yes, the time scale is mind boggling! Thank you!
Half underground with only access through a hole in the "roof" sounds more like a some sort of storage space. It would be somewhat cooler than a surface dwelling. So interesting!
I thought the same, root-cellar style and how do they know they were communal?
@@steben3318 the people that say this shit cant even make the chair they sit on.
archeology and egyptology do not use the scientific method at all
the very foundations of the main accepted historical timeline is based on a mistranslation making 400 years of seemingly fake history appear that dioesnt fit in anywhere but this can be simply fixed with the proper translation but the mainstream said the new model was "Too good to be true"
Quite right.Obv storage possibly even water as has been found in other sites.But certainly food.
That's certainly a possibility, but I don't think one can automatically assume that. The Middle East can get insanely hot; underground rooms would also make sense as a place to get some shelter from the daytime heat (natural air conditioning). When I was deployed to Qatar while in the Navy a few years back, it regularly got up into the 130s during the summer months (didn't help that the humidity in Qatar is around 95% in the late summer, so sweating doesn't cool you - it can't evaporate into the saturated air). I was attached to a Marine Corps unit at the time (I was a Hospital Corpsman, and the Navy provides medical assets to the USMC, since they don't have their own). We were training for MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program), and we had to finish up by sunrise, otherwise we risked heat stroke. It was already "black flag" by the time the sun came up (www.ready.marines.mil/Stay-Informed/Natural-Hazards/Extreme-Heat/Flag-Conditions/).
it sounds a lot like the ceremonial "kiva" structures of the Pueblo People of SW USA.
Wow! This blows me away!! Love the pictures especially. Keep up the good work. Who knows how many more civilization are lying under the fabulous Turkish ground. You will have new material to go forever, just in Turkey. ❤❤
🦅buildings in Malta also had entrance thru a circle in the ceiling/roof🦅as due North American Native Indigenous American people entering thru a hole in the ceiling of the Kiva(sacred building).🦅
Can't believe he said "you've got to wonder what went on" when talking about the communal dark cold places underground likely used to store food.
It's all fascinating to me. More importantly it adds to the overall story of history.
archeological work on Gobekli Tepe has highlighted its megalithic nature, which unlike Stonehenge, it is clearly man-made (animal and anthropomorphic carvings). There is still debate about it being used for residential and domestic activities. There are far older sites covering the end of the Late Pleistocene to Early Holocene and were continuously occupied like Kortik Tepe. Here, it is more interesting because artefacts of daily used were found. Scientific exploration is still ongoing.
Just imagine what else will be found at Gobekli Tepe, considering there's so much more to dig out.
So what is thought to be the food supply for these communities? Are we talking hunter/gatherer, domesticated livestock, some farming or a combination of all? The time is so far back it really pushes the boundaries of our understanding. Thanks for your videos and insight. Fascinating stuff gentleman. Cheers from Oz.
well farming as we know it was only really possible after melt water pulse 1 b
much more land was freed up and the climate got much warmer
before this carbon levels were too low to farm as we do now so it would be much more hunter gatherer based plus many more mega fauna existed making farming even harder
Herding animals like goats seems maybe like a better option with very small farming efforts
they clearly knew how to farm but before this event couldn't grow to anywhere near the same capacity
@@kp-legacy-5477 the abundance of game must have been incredible. I suppose that when you look at the millions of (just) bison that existed before European settlement in Nth America a community could sustain itself with a hunter/gather lifestyle. I've spent a bit of time with Australian aboriginal people and their nomadic way of life and husbandry of their country ensured a consistent food supply. Fascinating stuff.
@@Nuggettfaz small game was definitely plentiful enough that they need not even bother hunt larger prey
Which is why the idea that humans at the time hunted mammoths and others to extinction is ridiculous
@@Nuggettfaz I was with the Yalata mob for 8 mths. Too sad, bad and mad was the indiscriminate hunting out of season and hooning about in vehicles to destroy the ancient and ultra sensitive eco systems..☝️❤️✌️🌍🙏
@@eugenio1542 I spent 8 years with Yolgnu people in NE Arnhem Land. Walking encyclopaedias.
Zoroastrian history books mentions the ice age/ great floods, these were places of temporary relocation, as people migrated from the cities in the north to the south to save themselves from extinction. They tried to make life better for themselves there, however When the cold came further down they migrated further down . This was said by a Zoroastrian priest from Mumbai.
I think its a huge indicator that once again the knowledge of the precessional cycle goes back far far back into our distant past
they were doing scorpions which was that cultures representation of Cancer
we as a species seem to have been obsessed with the sky throughout our history and the age of discovery of precession HAS to be changed
too many sites are equinoxal markers for it to just be coincidence at this point.
Yes yes thank you for recognizing the many other sites in the area of Gobekli tepe that show the level of utilization of so many tools,implements,and methods of shelter creation that were happening prior. Gobekli tepe didn't just pop up after some pre-flood wise ones appeared from an advanced civilization and show them how to make a pillar. Gobekli tepe itself was inhabited or utilized for a very long time period itself. Thanks so much for covering the subject.
This is so interesting, to think that there was a large scale settlement 13,000 years ago is just crazy. How many people do you think lived there? Are we talking hundreds? Thousands? More?
You're brief mention of this pushing back into the Younger Dryas opens up questions about the development of farming in that area. How were the two related?? So many questions! 😅
there was no farming before selection of grain in gobekli
humans do not need grain and sugar to develop civilization
it started all problems and destruction of old natural ways
Greetings from Austria. Thank you for sharing these amazing facts on these recent findings .
Thank you this. Very interesting. Everything keeps getting older and older.
Yes, so true. I remember when modern humans were thought to only be 150k years old, now we are thought to be almost 300k years old. I wouldnt be surprised if we are even older than that. The earth is a big place, who is to say that they found the oldest human bones that survived to become fossils or that they discovered the oldest city or dwelling. Tbere is much still to dig up. Its fascinating!
With all the digging it's amazing we're no further to understanding who was about back then in Turkey and what motivated them Seemingly it was just a very busy area with people just getting on with life
Couple of thoughts on those communal underground places ? Options could include shelters for the community from extreme Wind Chill, as at the time, it looks like there were extremely cold temperatures which were accompanied by very high Wind speeds, as for example long Barrows with accommodation in them do look uncannily like aerodynamic Wind shaped snow drifts ? among other options, the small roof acces and no windows, could well have been Ice Houses as well, for icecreams in the Summer ? Just Cut snow blocks and line the inside starting at the Walls, and you could have chilled drinks or iced water in the Summer ? Also as it me,ts in the Summer, it's a pretty shallow well ? Probably,y lots of other possibilities as well, but remembering getting hot and bothered and dusty while Haymaking, Sheep Shearing etc, you could kill for an ice cold drink, and I bet that would have been the same for them too. Question, did they have Any Fresh Limes to slice and drop unto their Lager ? 🤔
Storage or warehouses of some kind was the first thing on my mind.
I agree. Too many archeologists have too much book learning & seriously lack survival common sense. When in doubt, ask the Local Elders.
Yes very exciting, pre-history is fascinating. Thanks ❤
❤ Beautiful bead work!
Thanks for posting!
At 7:21 To me the communal building looks more like a cellar to perhaps store things in and perhaps there was a building above it that you could enter the cellar through the floor.
Have you guys done a video on the Mesolithic archeological site at Lapenski, Serbia? Looks interesting!
Enjoy these guys. Visually feels like watching cousins of David Bowie and Davy Jones .
Just sticking to facts, without all the spectaluar claims.... That's what I like and love ! Thank you very much for this gentlemen. I subscribed ❣
While watching a biblical documentary
My grandmother told me in late 1970s that this was there and that the ottoman wouldn't allow it to be touched but that after ww2 it was being blocked from biblical archeology by western organizations.
Yes thank you for leaving that bit in where you couldn't think. That's actually more enjoyable to me that you're humans sitting here processing and conversing, I love it! Just to let you good gentleman know that.
I have an interesting take on it the structures as a person who has at one point lived in the Great Basin alone for two years. The communal buildings were dug in to the ground because that is the easiest way to make earthquake-stable structures that will last if you don't have access to good wood or mason material. They didn't want to make a giant crappy looking rock and stick hut for everyone to gather under that would likely fall apart and kill everyone one day. Rather, the roof alone was perhaps some sort of light but water resistant material followed by a few feet of carefully placed stones and then the majority of the wall which was made from digging. I also am not sure why you are assuming the structure was cramped because based on my knowledge of the site, we actually don't know high high the ceilings were on these buildings. Subterranean structures tend to get smaller in height over a 12,000 year period. As for the residential huts, they were probably built out of less substantial material and people likely tore down and rebuilt them more frequently on an individual basis. What do you think about this?
Keep Looking! Keep Finding! I'm looking forward to more Middle Eastern discoveries! Your presentations are enlightening, informative, interesting and thought provoking! (so much for the "stoneage")
"And we may never know", but coherent conjecture and intelligent speculation of what is yet to be discovered is why I listen to you guys. Another excellent vid.
Seeing these intimate artifacts brings me to their world with a reverent feeling of great admiration. Thank you.
Göbekli Tepe, Hamzan Tepe, Karahan Tepe, Sefer Tepe, Tasli Tepe, Nevalt Cori, Kilisik Tepe, Urfa, Kortik Tepe, Karan Tepe, Boncuklu Tarla ...
Great blokes and coverage. Thanks both.
Gobekli Tepe is most definitely not ground zero for civilization. It was a temporary location built by a people who were on the move. These people had traveled from Egypt. They made several stops along the way; including Jericho. I know these things because I befriended a man by the name of Dr. Lewis E. Graham circa 2013. Sadly, he passed away in March of 2017. Nevertheless, I learned a lot from both reading his books as well as having many discussions with him. I was one of the proofreaders for his autobiography and also designed the cover for that book. He was a fascinating individual.
Wonderful experience in learning about our past , cheers mate
David it was the way around. Civilization came first to N.E Turkiye from Ucraine down to mesorivers in to Nile River. But moderne humans anatomy originated from Africa in to the rest of the planet.
@@koksalceylan9032 - That wasn't my implication. This civilization, which some call the Atlanteans, departed Egypt about 12,000 years ago before it became desert.
@@DavidLazarus pseudo History you tolking about!. Ufo,atalantians,... That is not history just stories we like.
@@koksalceylan9032 - You're free to think what you want. Dr Lew Graham did more than four decades of research on the topic and he had the funds to do it. Just because something is myth doesn't make it false, it merely means that it's not easily verifiable.
Thanks gentlemen it's good to hear this delivered in a pragmatic stoic British tone
What you describe sounds similar to kivas of the American Southwestern indigenous settlements. Many of these are thousands of years old and still used for ceremonial purposes.
Yep, my first thought as well. The parallels are striking. The Ancestral Puebloans also built surface dwellings that complemented the subsurface buildings. And in earlier periods, they also built subsurface homes as well called pithouses. In later periods, the subsurface structures were used by the community for work that was common to everyone; grinding corn, weaving, preparing meals, etc. Living quarters were on the surface. These functions changed and developed over time. Later on, Kivas became mainly ceremonial, but later on, were also used as dwellings, not just for ceremonial purposes.
Gobelki Tepli gets mentioned a lot on Ancient Aliens. In fact, that series was responsible for me finding out about Gobelki Tepli in the first place!
And thank you for being open minded in accepting new findings and resetting our human history accordingly. You’re setting a good example of historians/archaeologists/scientists/scholars/etc to follow. Too many our leaders have lost their ways to satisfy their donors/financiers, sad really.
A helpful discussion about a fascinating place. Thank you.
Entering structures from the roof might have been normal back then, one of the oldest villages found in Turkey had entrances on the roof as well. Dated to 10k years...
Just your intro to this video alone got my subscription, thank you for your enthusiasm about this subject
The Zuni had ceiling entrances to their ceremonial places, too. The cave analogies seem obvious.
Love to see all there family trees and where these branches led to on our world.
Fun fact: these two guys have been friends since they were teenagers.
The bald guy was into the British Metal scene and the other guy was into The Jam.
i deduced from background and headset colouring
I even pictured the left gentleman with long hair
how people can think about similar unrelated to video things 😂😂😂
Like a table knife goes with marmalade.
Great video, very detailed and very eloquently delivered. Amazing topic. Very happy to have found your channel as it resonates with me and my current interests in prehistory. I had never heard of this site before.
Earnt a sub, keep up the marvellous work. Please.
I think gobekli is a meeting place for the many clans of peoples kind of like the United Nations where the clan leaders met to decide where each tribe could hunt ,plant,build,and trade goods
I view it as a communal place like you said, in the area where agriculture was first tested, in spending time in a very fertile place with lots of natural edible plants and game they had no need to move around a lot, and by staying in one place they could observe how plants work, and test it on their own.
Fascinating and every other superlative.
Thank you Guys
U guys really need to use pictures. I end up leaving ur videos to look myself. It would be nice to do that after instead
So glad I found you guys today.
I’d love to know more about climate at the time and place of these ancient human settlements. Might have been different than we imagine when studying them now.
Correct. A Sunken home is far easier to maintain warm & cool. No mystery here. Only common sense.
Spot on chap😊
1980s, my father was one of the select few outsiders allowed to spent the night at a Greek Orthodox monastery on the top of a mountain. The scull of hundreds of year of monks are in niches carved into the mountain.
A couple of fallacies about tribal life to dispel here, guys: 1) just because the people stored grain does not mean they had domesticated the grain or were actively planting it (what we normally think of in agrarian societies); many American Indian tribes stored the grains they harvested at the places where they lived for three to six months at a time, but it was some time before they began to actively sow the seeds; even after they did, many would sow the seeds, leave them to grow over the summer as they traveled around to gather other food stuffs, such as by hunting bison; 2) just because people TAKE THE TIME to make ornaments does not mean they are "specializing" enough to pay others for their manufacture or working on them only at night (by what light?); instead, as was traditional for most American Indian cultures, the winter months, when little could be harvested or hunted, both men and women worked on crafts--from tanning hides and making clothing, to creating paints and beads as well as stockpiling hunting tools and weapons (a great time to knap blades--the cold helps make stone more brittle). As for the prevalence of scorpion imagery, realize that the scorpions could symbolize many things, including female reproductive organs (the arms = fallopian tubs; the body = uterus; the tail = vaginal canal). Because ancient people around the world believed women were spiritual warriors (bleeding once a month in their ongoing battle bring new souls from Another Realm to This Realm), they would have valued their reproductive organs as being especially magical (which is also why they entered their homes from a small hole above, instead of creating doors--it would be like going home to the safe haven of the womb every time), which is also why women who menstruated longer (obesity causes women to menstruate longer, which is probably why so many cultures venerated obese women), were considered more powerful spiritual warriors (and magic wielders) than others. And, lastly, just because a group of people demonstrates organization DOES NOT mean that their hierarchies are more domineering than cooperative. Every mammalian herd has hierarchies, with the oldest females usually being looked up to (not feared) for guidance during tough times because they carry the group's knowledge and wisdom (knowing where water and resources might be located). I cover all of these ideas and more in my new book, Pitiless Bronze: A Postpatriarchal Examination of Prepatriarchal Cultures. It is vital we begin to counter the male-dominated archeology bias toward seeing androcentrism (especially patriarchy, since they would NOT have figured out procreation by this time, even if they paired off like birds do) in ancient cultures without question. Since women were the creators and usually seen as more spiritually/magically powerful than men, we need to begin viewing the symbols these cultures left behind through gynocentric lenses, instead.
@Beau Timberland Read my book, Pitiless Bronze: A Postpatriarchal Examination of Prepatriarchal Cultures, if you want details.
Such interesting topics ..the fact that they had time to manufacture means food must have been systematically provided plus the fact that the site is large . It's also I interesting about sewerage systems because as early as 1600s we had not really understood the need for keeping sewerage out of drinking water .it seems they worked out a few things. If we mined copper back then they were one step away from discovering electricity of some type .. batteries with vinegar and a difference between metal or elements . Clearly , our records will need to be adjusted and even then it must be asked how far back a large society could have existed and no doubt destroyed by climate change or environmental impacts
The communal buildings: Under surface, roundish, roof access, no windows - like American southwestern kivas?
Interesting. Is the copper found native copper (ie found as pure copper - rare) or is it smelted?
Also - this area is quite high - so not subject to mega-flooding as many other areas have been. So stable through the Younger Dryas period.
If smelted it would ge about the earliest wouldn't it? How did people first learn to smelt ores? Maybe a happy accident firing pottery?
@@mpetersen6 Yes - or the rocks used to make a fire-circle or other form of hearth, if they contained lead or copper etc then someone might have noticed when clearing the ashes.
@@AndyBsUTube I'm not sure a fire circle would get hot enough.
Finding usable natural copper is rare it's almost always oxidized but even if it isn't it's not usable without melting and working so it points out that again 12,000 years ago isn't enough time for humans to evolutionarily different so figuring out how to make something wasn't unattainable. We are so arrogant to think ourselves so much smarter than a short while back evolutionary. A wooden structure was found worked wood 500,000 years ago in Africa
You gentlemen are just delightful. This material is mind-blowing. Thank you!
Could the sunken rooms be root cellers? Places to keep perishable foods?
I could listen to these gentlemen talk all day, lovely. From Scranton Pa.
Ç = 'ch' bonchuklu how did they bore 2mm diameter 20 mm long holes in silicate pebbles in early copper age?? they made secondary cargo cult/heirloom souvenirs for pilgrims...
15,000 years of humanity is incredible in a sense of how we look at history through solid proof. It is surely a shame to not believe that humanity is much much older
I wonder,why you never covered the prehistoric sites,that we have here in Köflach,Austria,where we have 70 different prehistoric caves,in a very small area!
you had also cool death camp sites but you ruined it so nobody could remember about these
@@szymonbaranowski8184 ,curse on you,for trying to play the old blame game!! This surely is NOT your real name,daring to make such false remarks! Have you been a nazi victim in your former lifetime?
Extraordinary and fascinating!
Very interesting, gentlemen. In fairness, I believe they've only excavated about 5 percent of Tepe, as well. Still, until I find the power drills, lathes and saws that built the Pyramids and Puma Punku, and discover the magic that moved all of those massive stones, I'll have to put off my search for the bead drills at Boncuklu Tarla.
Inka did lots with oppressive communism
so it's not a big deal
not all cultures were as lazy a Chinese building great wall
Romans built own wall in 5 years
Largely poured in place.
The problem about finding evidence is things like metals were so valuable is almost everything was reused if you do research you'll find raiding in war many times was to steal metals to make more weapons. If there was a saw blade it probably became a viking sword or something . Most lost which would be rare given its value would 99 percent of corrode away only leaving a chunk of dirt that is green or red. I find it incredible what we find because it screams how much acess some groups had to wealth
So happy we are using LiDAR. Now we need to excavate the things we’ve found, especially the Mid East, Sahara, Amazon, and oceans if possible.
These sites date from around (or up to about a millennium before?) the end of the last Ice Age. Could they have built structures above ground for summer use, and below ground against the harsh winters?
All great points, fascinating conversation, thank you.
These underground communal spaces sound like they'd be good for surviving heatwaves, or wildfires, or perhaps tornadoes or severe storms.
Probably a colder spot for storing food. Cold air notoriously stays in low lying areas, and cold air is dryer, too
Wished there had been some photos with what you were talking about. But lovely to hear there’s another historical spot found. Hope it’s protected and preserved.
Its our egotistical arrogance that makes us want to believe that anyone who came before us could not possibly be as smart as us. You can easily see this behavior in teenagers. Ancient people had the same capacity for intelligence as we do now.... Maybe more.
It's funny how we think we know stuff!!! We got it all figured out. The Boneyard in Alaska is also turning what we think we know in its head!!! I love all of it
The zodiac is actually the history of human civilization measured on a 25,920 year cycle. According to the zodiac, civilization had its infancy around 21,748 bce when the worst part of the ice age eased and humans in Ukraine and Turkey could start to venture outside their cave cities. It also tells us we were neatly wiped out twice, once by fire (comets) around 11,000 bce and then once by water around 9,600 bce.
The megaliths we couldn’t build today were built before the comets. Many thought building these megaliths to withstand the test of time were an affront to god and the comets (and later flooding) were god’s punishment for being prideful and wicked. The comets happened in the Age of Leo the Lion, our son roared like s Lion in that Age. Mankind were considered prideful in this Age and got whacked. We still call a group of lions a pride gor that reason. Hit me up if you want a more detailed explanation
I'm interested in this information. Have been doing some reading and find it very interesting. I knew Egypt was the time of Leo but don't know the facts that actually occurred. Wonder if volcanoes and earthquakes will be what happens this time.
Babylonians invented the Zodiac around 400BCE, it explains nothing other than what stars are seen during what 30 day periods being they all appear mid month. Fables are cool but history is a lot cooler.
Seriously. Please don’t quote astrology people. You might as well wear a sign that says “uneducated”
@josephcappa9904 Joseph, you must be referencing our civilization, or modern mans. That would be us, right. Well, recent findings , artifacts, weapons and tools are being found wit some very highly crafted pieces being dated by trusted and premier laboratories to over 2 million years. ALL the largest, heaviest , humongous, stone ,granite, or basalt blocks that ar found around the world were laid down precisely, and exactly fitted together in many cases, NO MAN THAT HISTIRY COVERS DID THAT! THESE are the megaliths that weigh in( as a guess), becausecwe cant actually weigh them, but they're over 100,000 tons.. These megalithic slabs, foundations, walls were on earth LONG BEFORE OUR GENESIS.
Imagine, with 71% of earth covered with water, and the deep oceans holding 96.5 of all that water ...what's left to find ? I believe highly advanced, highly intelligent civilizations flourished on earth as early as 400 million years earlier than we think. It's like civilizations step out of the caves, advance, grow excellent and finally live in the high rise so to speak. Then a cataclysmic event happend that knocked them down, and with a few survivors, " went back into their underground cities, ( caves) , and then over a few million years they too reached for the pinnacle, building great things , again this civilization was decimated by some kind of catastrophic/cataclysmic destruction. So.. it's been sorta like a cycle "sort, wash, rinse, dry , repeat," over and over and over. I also dont give the Ancient Egyptians any credit for the building of the Great Pyramid[s] on the Giza Plateau. Those 3 pyramids were already standing, and only claimed by the rulers of Egypt. Those smaller pyramids that litter the landscape in Egypt, are the newest pyramid "ATTEMPT" by the Egyptians to COPY the great pyramids. We can see their results, not even close! That's why they stopped even trying to build pyramids after those failures.