The Archeological Find That Broke History
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
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In the mountains of Turkey lies a series of buried monoliths going back nearly a dozen millennia. It's an archeological site known as Göbekli Tepe, and it's changed everything we knew about the rise of human civilizations.
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LINKS LINKS LINKS:
www.newscientist.com/question...
whc.unesco.org/en/list/1572/
www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...
globalheritagefund.org/2017/1...
www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-...
www.cambridge.org/core/journa...
www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-...
archaeology.huji.ac.il/people...
globalheritagefund.org/2017/1...
www.bbc.com/travel/article/20...
www.dainst.blog/the-tepe-tele...
www.discovermagazine.com/the-...
maajournal.com/Issues/2017/Vol...
destinationhistorypod.com/epi...
www.eng.ed.ac.uk/about/people...
www.bbc.com/travel/article/20...
www.aa.com.tr/en/culture/anci...
arkeonews.net/a-12-000-year-o...
www.heritagedaily.com/2022/08...
www.discovermagazine.com/plan...
Timestamps -
0:00 - Intro
1:41 - Göbekli Tepe
4:34 - Building Layers
5:39 - Settlement or Sanctuary?
7:16 - Breaking History
10:15 - Boncuklu Tarla and Karahan Tepe
11:20 - Jericho
12:45 - Sponsor - Henson Shaving 
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It’s crazy when you think about the fact that the pyramids were older to the Romans, than the Romans are to us. And now finding an ancient city that is literally twice the age of the pyramids….I’m thinking there is a LOT about early human civilizations that we DON’T know.
there's a lot of human history that we do know - it's just people don't do their research. It's well known that agriculture started 45k years ago - yet no one will think of it if they only watch a joe scott video.
@@extropiantranshuman Except the archeological consensus is about 10,000 years ago (very, very roughly contemporary with Göbekli Tepe), not 45,000 years ago, so you're off by a significant bit.
@@iesika7387 45k is worldwide. I'm not talking gobekli tepe.
Very astute.....
@@extropiantranshuman I'll bite. where did Agriculture begin 45k years ago?
I think the most amazing thing about the Göbekli Tepe is that it was used up until the present as a religious site. If you ever watch the interviews made with the locals you'll see that people regarded that site as a holy place, went there to pray, and make wishes. So everyone knew it was a special spot for thousands of years, but nobody knew exactly why. That's fascinating.
That's honestly one of my favorite things about history, is when people continue a shadow of their heritage over great swaths of time without knowing why. Like, dead languages that still have little pieces that have been incorporated into languages spoken today, or places that people know are special without knowing why. Humans are cool, man
That's mind blowing to think about :D
Similar to many sites in India, e.g. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghor_stone, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhimbetka_rock_shelters
That's bs ... The Turks currently occupying the area migrated to Mesopotamia around the 6th century CE and were sedentary from the 12th century CE onwards.
I know for what purpose Gobekli Tepe was built.
Gobekli Tepe is the kind of thing that if I'd heard about it as a kid I might have grown up to be an archaeologist. It's fascinating.
Graham Hancock is like a real life Indiana Jones...glad there are some truly intrepid researchers out there doing real work instead of relying on completely out of date books and academia
@@leroilapue15 and too much useless speculation they do.
Just proving the owners manual correct , again, Noahs flood , buried the lands in sediment, carved out some areas with saltwater and , “folded up lands”, while water receded, eliminated beasts, while saving animals. The entire pacific coast mountains are just sand and gravel , like a giant sand castle left on the beach , coming down a bit with every significant rain fall (cant be 4bil years old , it would be flat by now) . Mexico city is built on a gigantic mostly buried pyramid, Pueblo, aztalanpark wisconsin mostly below grade pyramid , pyramids below water in rock lake Wisconsin (very close to aztalan) . Bronze wheels from “Moses crossing” contain copper that could only have been mined in the Michigan U.P. (No other copper has that metallurgical structure)……
That's exactly how I became a gynaecologist
@@Dan-mm1yl Ok, now dying here. 🤣
I was an anthropology student for a hot second, and what struck me often was the tendency of Anthropologists to underestimate the abilities of the ancient world. Like saying that a site from 9000 BCE could not possibly have been inhabited by people who understood the movement of the stars. Ummmm...yes it could.
I think it's probably more likely
How about moving mass by making harmonics thru sound. It would explain how the great pyramid was built.
@aimeeiniling. I agree. The same intellectual creativity, drive and experimentation of human nature that exists today, was present throughout mankind's history. The technology and techniques may vary, but early people were just as clever as we are. No need for mysticism or ancient aliens, just a series of inventive and passed-along knowledge.
We didn’t suddenly gain intelligence in 2000BC. We were always as smart and deductive as we are now.
Well 1 of the biggest myths in history is that humanity itself changes. When in reality it's only human circumstances that changes.
A baby born today is no smarter than a baby born 9000 years ago, he'll just have more access to more resources and information.
'people in the past were a lot more intelligent than we give them credit for.. '. Absolutely! Have been saying this for years. From an Irish perspective there are huge numbers of megolithic sites which are extremely complex and date back a couple of thousand years before the Pyramids and Stonehenge and yet are barely recognised. From an amateur point of view I'd say that we've barely scratched the surface of human history. Fascinating though.
The great pyramids may be the oldest structures on earth. Unknown in every aspect. Could be 50000 years old or older.
@@notreally2406 Nah, they're so interesting we studied all the mystery out of them years ago. Well maybe not all of it, but enough we know a good amount about them. The global community would do well to drop the popular sites a bit if it means studying more of the world's lesser known ruins and suspicious hills.
Mind Unveiled, Robert Sepher and some others talk about the ancient Irish and how the Druids were chased down and destroyed by the Romans etc...Tartaria etc...very interesting stuff
Oh
Given the state of modern society, I would argue they were actually much smarter than us. Take away our technology and I don't believe any modern human would be capable of anything the average human of the past was capable of. Perhaps "wiser" is more accurate, but I believe our modern society has nowhere near the functioning brain capacity of our ancestors. Not even close.
it's mind boggling that there were so many civilizations in human history that perished. and how many more we haven't discovered (yet)..
You Died - By Miracle of sound
The perfect theme song for the perished civilizations lol
@@bigredwolf6 good taste, but the correct song is To The Hellfire by Lorna Shore
With seeing how MANY civilizations SUNK….clearly it’s happened before and can easily happen AGAIN..and will
My favorite discovery in recent years is the civilization that was in the Amazon rainforest. Finding giant structures all throughout the rainforest is incredible.
We're next
The first person who found it was a farmer who got his plow stuck in one of the stones. The guy reported it but they didn’t take him serious. Then Klaus Schmidt came to the scene and identified the site for what it is known today.
I had dinner with Schmidt in 2012. Interesting guy, but he sweated while he ate, indicating health problems. He ultimately had a heart attack while swimming. Very sad.
It was a shepherd iirc
“Except not cool cuz that kinda breaks history”
I’ve never understood this mindset. Especially from someone with a scientific mind. How can anyone think this is anything BUT cool? It doesn’t break history, it’s making us understand history more accurately.
Same. The irony that scientific fields are often led by those with the most bias and ego.
@@ap4702 exactly! It’s so ridiculous. People think themselves or their ideas essentially “too big to fail”. They take it personally. It’s absolutely mental. The entire point of science is to discover truth, it’s all about falsification. It’s all about change and expanding and making more accurate our knowledge of the world.
People should be not gullible/completely open so as to accept any idea presented to them, but neither should be cynical/closed off where they become dogmatic and unscientific. Rather they should be skeptical. This way, they are open to new ideas, and pursue investigating claims, and base their beliefs off of weighing evidence. But no one ever conducted science but not conducting investigations.
I'm not an expert on sarcasm but I'm sure that's what Joe was using when he said that.
Guess he means 'breaks our standard belief about civilization growth'. That sounds like correct statement.
Because it’s not just cool. It’s marvelous.
What I find most compelling about the whole area (of discovered sites), which doesn't seem to have been addressed by commenters or archaeologists, is that all discovered sites so far seem to have been constructed on the periphery of the ancient water boundaries which are visible on satellite imagery as the darker green of vegetation which had been fed for millennia.
It's also a way to determine the extent of where it was possible to grow settlements anywhere in the world.
I've also used interactive flood maps to scour water boundaries along the Nile to indicate where ancient ports may have been situated, and in some cases, potential robbed out structures. It's great fun, addictive and compelling, but can lead to days passing swiftly from being singularly focused!
Wow. That is the one of the most compellingly unique new I've idea I've heard in quite a while. You are very brilliant good sir.
@@danielanderson6933 Oh yes, someone who chose that name has to be brilliant!
@@richardwiersma much more brilliant than whatever the hell you're trying to be
It has been addressed, it has been looked at and it has been discussed.... and a million papers have been written about it. Do your research.
@@danielanderson6933 I don't know man, that other dudes name doesn't even have numbers in it. That just don't sit right with me
There's also the big flats of footprints in New Mexico that pushed N American history back thousands of years. (And the child's footprints that put both feet together and then hopped into a puddle (in a sloth track) and splashed water all over, before running to catch up to their parents, just like children all over the world, just like I did as a child. That single detail really brought the past alive for me.)
your parents ran away from you? I'm sorry to hear that.
The part about the ancient child 's footprints in a muddy puddle brought tears to my eyes!
I absolutely love this site. It’s truly amazing to learn about, and it’s such an old find that it’s thought that it may not have even been homosapians making these tracks, but rather a different species of human! How cool is that?!
I could easily read a 300 page book of these small prehistoric stories gathered through archeology!
@@ricos1497 read that again dude 😅
I got to visit this site in 2015. I was so overwhelmed I sat for hours contemplating the depths of our ignorance of our history.
I appriciate that the current understanding of when animals were domesticated etc led to the "it must be all hand built": but if you have a massive structure that shoves building back to before supposed start of domestication/farming: maybe that 'Start' was earlier as well?
I always think the same thing. Historians are so myopic and slow to question things they have determined to be "true."
The issue with that is, if they make that concession, then they have to explain why the evidence of farming disappears, only to reappear later. And when you have people like Graham Hancock out there talking about things like Biblical Flooding causing a "reset" on human population roughly 10,000 years ago. Things get, sticky, because they might have to consider his theories and well, they can't have that.
@@LWolf12 thing is: there a terribly bad habit from the Victorian era of “linear advancement” it can’t cope with concurrency of development in multiple locations: and it can’t cope with “fall back” caused by environmental or social events.
And yet they will accept the Bronze Age collapse pretty much dropped the civilisations of the area back hundreds of years, collapsed organised farming & literacy
@@Ralnon Mhmm, and I'm not saying Graham Hancock is any kind of authority, just an example.
@@LWolf12 given I am neither an expert or have delved in to the enormous information realm that exists: I can only comment from an interested member of the public point of view: but Hancock does ask questions and then poses some ideas. Those ideas - as in any debate: need to be tested and considered. The answers may not be available, they may have many answers, they may varies theories that partially answer. But the important bit is that it’s debated and considered. If you dismiss out of hand anything without a answering theory that is simpler and a better fit and has facts behind it: your just tossing about dogma and it won’t be accepted.
What I like about Hancock is the provoking questions of “if that is here, at this depth, (I am thinking of the Indian structures he looked at) and respected experts say that was 8000 BCE: what does that say about the society in that area?
That’s a query: having a dogmatic response of “it can’t be that old” is ignoring evidence.
Much the same is of the Indus Vally cities: they are dated to a point that doesn’t sit will with the sophistication of the planning and infrastructure
But it’s there, it’s not disputed, they are really old.
They don’t pop out of a tent one day and go “let’s build a city today” 🤣
Seeing stuff like this reminds me of why “Ozymandias” will always be one of my favorite poems. Really captures the concept of what’s lost to time
Tears in rain
@@cameron.t time for pie
I like to think Ozymandias scores the win. A broken wreck in a desert he may be, but his name is known.
I wonder if Shelley meant this.
@@tpxchallenger Like all true poets, Shelly causes the reader to "wonder."
breaking bad
Fun fact: the species of wild grain closest to what became the first agricultural grain is located only 20 miles from Göbekli Tepe... suggesting that the very first agriculture occurred in that neighborhood.
My theory : the first stable civilisation started building and they were good people who started carving rocks and most of the inspiration were their own pious people and mostly animals, lizzards and insects scorpions.
These people had religion, knowledge of animals and understood most of the animals around them even peobably sacrificed them as found by bones of many species of animals.
10 km from there were the makers of urfa man, the people of NOAH.
yes people of Noah.
Just few KM from there is a big lake trapped between mountain, and 500km away is Mt Judi that has the ship of noah shape in it.
Gobkeli tepe and surrounding villages were covered in floods in around 8000-9000 BC.
And because they had knowledge of animals and farning and building civilization And the survivors expanded and mixed with other tribes and shared their knowledges of farming and taming, hence the boom of farming in 5900 BC around the area of egypt, greece, mesopotamia, areas of arabs show statues of camels in Al jauf that are carved in mountains 6800 BC
@@dutchvan.740 you are having the fallacy of thinking that we are smarter than the people in ancient history, we are not we just have better tools now that we know of. Chances are there been civilization just as advance as ours, but just like ours did not carve stuff into stone therefore time has erased them from existence. With how humans are acting now ours will disappear soon as well, and 5,000 years from now there will be very little evidence that this civilization ever even existed
@@dffndjdjd not possible.
We would leave atleast something behind us.
The people at gobkeli tepe were first farmers as well.
And onsidering the era of noah.
Every other thing falls to place.
Right upto formation of babylon, then jerusalem and mecca.
Joseph (imhotep) and djoser falling just right with famine stella of 7 years
Then just 4 generations later Khufu and moses or the shephard whose name was philistis
After that history is clearer.
@@dutchvan.740 Your comment doesn't make sense. He didn't refer to any situation in which something wasn't left behind or should have been.
Also, Noah was surely a fictional character, along with much of the rest you were saying.
Yes, and the wild grain would have continued to look like wild grain for a long time after they were using it.
They only recently found all this evidence of settlements. It therefore isn't surprising that they haven't found more conclusive evidence of agriculture.
The big dipper is a bear being pursued by three hunters, not a bear with a long tail. Modern city dwellers don't thing of a hunt when they think of a bear.
Göbekli Tepe might be the result of a seasonal lifestyle. We live on factory farms and eat fresh salad in the dead of winter, but life used to be heavily dependent on the season. One idea is that these people were dispersed most of the year and gathered in dense cities for one season each year.
Also despite bizarre remarks about stating to realize they weren't animals, there is no reason to think people thought they were animals even 50,000 years ago.
Can I find it on my new S22 phone?
makes absolute sense....
As someone who has tasted bear, city dwelling has absolutely nothing to do with not hunting them.
@@Novascrub bear was hunted as rite of passage in many cultures. I can see it being culturally relevant to hunt bear even if not for the meat.
I disagree. Theres no reason to think we AREN'T animals, either now or in our past. of course some cultures and religions will place mankind on another fundamental level of life but thats transmitted by culture, not some raw fact of reality.
I don’t know if you follow miniminuteman but he’s an archaeology graduate with his own channel. He just got permission to go to Göbekli Tepe and take 12 people with him. It’s going to be really interesting to see what he’s able to film there and what information he’s going to be able to take away from it. I am so completely jealous that I’m not able to go.
@jennifermcmillan9518 Thanks for the miniminuteman recommendation. He seems to be an entertainer as much as an educator. 😄
@@anandsharma7430 yes, yes he is that for sure.
For whatever a stranger's opinion is worth... I 100% vouch for miniminuteman. Brilliant and enthusiastic young archeologist. 👏
I found him just last nite! Isn't he fun!
@@shayxo193 LOVE HIM! Although he and Joe do two separate types of content and overlap sometimes, they are both on my algorithm to pop up immediately. I will rewatch their pages just to make sure of it.
“Feeling timeless is timeless”. That’s such a great quote. Human hubris is universal, it seems. We like to think we couldn’t just disappear, but we live on a floating ball in space, with an ever raging mother nature. We are but a blip in the sands of time.
Ozymandias.
I mean that's a pretty broad interpretation of the sum of human history, man has also been made very aware of their frailty through events like natural disasters, famines, etc..
Well seeing as we're the only ones we know of currently that keep track of time at all saying we're as nothing is kind of dumb- we can't be small if we're the only ones there
@@zartexkrontaculys1097 You can be small and be the only one, why not?
And still people believe we are special and there has to be a higher power
Fun fact: despite what you say at 09:00, star constellations have moved appreciably in the time since people started making star charts. This gives us the fields of archeo-astronomy and paleo-astronomy, which do particularly interesting things with cosmology in China over the past 3,000 years. Their maps are not just noticeably different from what we see today, but can be shown to match what they would have seen at the time.
Yes. And watching this made me also think about how the constellations could have had more visible stars going back so far in time and might make more sense if they named them prior to some stars blowing out... a bear looking more like a bear, I mean.
@@drivethrupoet
we only have records for a couple of supernova over the last several thousand years.
what we do have today, is a LOT more air pollution and light pollution blocking light.
check out how bad people freaked out, over what they could see in the sky, during the massive NY City blackout in the 1970's.
It's weird that you started with "despite what you say" since both you and the talking head in the video agree on this. But I can't actually tell if you are suggesting that anything said in the video was inaccurate or its just a weird way to start your sentence.
@@nichan008 ruclips.net/video/oZnW-E70wq8/видео.html
> "Just to be clear, I don't think that they're suggesting that the positions of the stars would've changed in that time, because they wouldn't have, not significantly, anyway..."
So, yeah, the creator made up a commentary factoid on the fly, and was wrong.
@@ChrisPikula Unless I'm mistaken, he said the stars wouldn't have changed significantly in the time from when the ruins were built to when the ancient star maps being referenced were made. So not, "from back then to now," but just "not significantly from back then to slightly less back then."
I highly recommend reading The Dawn of Everything by David Wengrow and David Graeber. They get into lots of sites like this, including ones that are even older or were in unexpected areas. The ultimate point of the book is the one you make: that people throughout history were infinitely smarter and more creative than we give them credit for, and the model of civilizational development like you described in the beginning of the video is sometimes undermined by the evidence, yet many researchers perform academic acrobatics to fit the evidence into existing models of civilizational development.
But they are talking about the complexity and diversity of societies, not ancient Aliens or ultra-advanced technology in the Paleolithic.
Thats the only way to get research funded or even a publication through peer review. The cheesiest arguments are allowed to bend things into schoolbook shape.
🚀🏴☠️🎸
When you consider the real deep time history of our species, going back at least 50k-150k years, even 15k years is relatively recent. It is absolutely mind-blowing to think how many civilizations have come and gone throughout this time, and how much memory has been lost to deep time. And how we will likewise be lost to our future selves.
Read the bhagavad gita. Im not hindu but ancient civilisations arent new to indians.
The theory I have on Gobeki Tepi: We know hunter/gatherer tribes went where the food was... stayed in that spot a while, then moved along to the next spot. The land surrounding Gobeki Tepi was fertile and wild wheat grew there. Come harvest time, many different hunter/gatherer tribes may have converged there to harvest the wheat. Since it's easier to process the wheat on site, they may have stayed there to do that. So it became a natural annual gathering place of tribes. A time to trade, find mates, share skills and ideas, etc. Eventually it became an ancient convention center of sorts... and different tribes worked together to built grain processing structures they could all use (those have been found). Since they all worked successfully on that, next they built the enclosures (perhaps temples - no way to know, but it makes sense). Eventually some people - possibly the skilled craftsman, built homes and lived there semi-permanently, living off what they traded with the nomads. Ultimately it became a full fledged "city"/settlement.
I like the idea of prehistoric humans coming together for the annual Wheat-Con, filled with wheat-themed activities and Q&A sessions with the biggest names in the wheat industry.
the issue with all that is this was built and used prior to agriculture .
@@daycrow8651 That's the point, it was possibly the starting place for plant agriculture.
A well articulated and thought through hypothesis. I'm personally going to use that for all intents and purposes as fact.
Makes sense
Greatings from Turkey. I didn’t have a chance to visit the gobekli tepe but very recently i’ve visited çatalhöyük. Which is an almost 9000 years old settlement. It was a very interesting feeling. Than i went the Boncuklu höyük. It was a smaller and less known place than the çatalhöyük but as the history goes it was older. The experience was incredible.
Lucky, I would love to visit!
Merhaba ! How is Great İstanbul? Hope to come soon
glouglouglouglou ?! 🦃
Greetings from Germany, arkadaşim. Would love to visit çatalhöyük one day!
Istanbul was Constantinople now it's Istanbul not Constantinople so if you've a date in Constantinople she'll be waiting in Istanbul.
So… yes the pictures that represent constellations are different than the ones we use today. The clue that led to the belief that is pillar was referencing the stars was a scorpion. And when looking at the constellation we know as scorpions the pictures on the pillars match up with the stars. So yes they are different, but actually, they are the same.
Yeah, the stars have moved. Or more accurately, the earth has moved far enough for the sky to shift. I dont think he realizes just how long 10,000 years is.
@@GodwynDi you definitely do not. 10k years cosmically speaking is just another day. You'd have to go back 100+ thousand years to see a recognizable difference. The procession of the Earth takes 26k years and even that is barely noticeable.
No that is just you being anachronistic
Have a minor background in Archeology (whether I liked it or not, my dad was the Archeologist and needed someone on the sifter) and noticed that there are several distinct Art forms on the pillars that could indicate early and later techniques of base relief "sculptures". This could also be due to various generations of inhabitants adding their touch to the whole areal as the stone cutting methods improved.
I get a lot of anxiety thinking about the potential history we could be missing that other history might be built on top of and we won't ever move because of it's relevance. Probably very common.
I get the same sort of anxiety, also about the sites that we’ve lost from the sea levels rising at the end of the ice age.
And don’t get me started about how much less accessible that will all be as they continue to rise faster and storms get stronger /:
Atlantis was real and its under Antarctica
@@borisleoro8943 actually it’s in africa. look up the richat structure
@@TsukiRaiki I do want to know what's under the ice of Antarctica, though
@@TsukiRaiki wasn't is
Most people don't see the night sky free of light pollution. I've gotten to a few times; once in the Amazon. There was a good 300 miles + Andes mountains between me and any city lights. It's very understable why they focused on the night sky. It's really one of the most beautiful things out there if you really get a pollution free view
Living in a city is never going to allow people to see the night sky.
Just watched about 5 of your vids and learned a few things about Göbekli Tepe and Turkey's archaeological sites I didn't know. Thanks subbed!.
I find it wonderfully exciting when discoveries challenge what we thought we knew to be true. Dig on!
What's equally as impressive is your ability to pronounce the two Turkish sites consistently without any mistakes.
Yes, great effort, the first syllable of Göbeklitepe is pronounced like the ‘u’ sound in ‘hurt’.
he has seen things
If he could pronounce the Boncuklu properly, it was perfect.
@@little_fluffy_clouds no? The u in 'hurt' is a vowel called schwa, not the Mid front rounded vowel Turkish has here in the word.
@@turthhurts Schwa is the unstressed syllable sound, as in “bud” or “luck”. The “u” in “hurt” or the “i in “bird” is the closest in English to the sound of the Turkish letter “ö”, but basically there’s no direct corresponding sound in English.
If you speak German, think of the vowel sound in “schön,” as that’s the same sound.
this era is actually my favorite historical period, the pre-pottery neolithic. that transitional period we always skip over between our idea of cave men and Mesopotamia. its so weird and mysterious
Agreed but I think it's likely lack of info..
the reason why you find it so fascinating is because there is a history that's missing. Those people were holding onto old norms but why is that? It's because they remembered a time of proper civilization where you didn't have to struggle similar to ours today but was much more advanced. How is it they got these ideas and forms of construction if they are supposed to be level 1 of us? No. They were the previous civilization's descendants trying to keep alive that ancient knowledge and prosperity that had long been wiped out by that asteroid. Thats what that bird was. It was marking the day their apocalypse happened.
@@ServalShots I'm not denying that there were great ancient civilizations, but I wouldn't say they were advanced. If they were advanced don't you think they would have had better pictography or some way to communicate their message? The art on the walls is pretty archaic.
@@Calikid331 ---Stone will last longer than our DVD's will.
Its also our most important. This is where we struggled to get agriculture going, started to organize into social or religious or quasipolitical groups, and it seems like as we went from nomadic to sedentary, these meeting points we built up allowed us to gather and exchange. And there's precedent for that kind of extended sharing of a site: a cave in Israel showed continuous use for fire/shelter over 100000 years.
Their motivation was likely the same as ours in trying to understand them. We strive for understanding the unknown and to be remembered and understood ourselves.
i love that we are finding out more and more about these ancient buildings, and what they were used for. ancient civilizations were so more intelligent and capable than we give them credit for
Fun fact: the Big Dipper is an asterism, not a constellation. An asterism is recognized segment of a constellation that has observation significance to society/humanity. In other words, the Big Dipper is a part of the great bear, Ursa Major.
Well, we are receiving light having been emitted from a number of stars at varying distances which are interpreted as a set just because of their relative brightness, which cultures have given a representative name which we characterize as a constellation. You could do the same by specifying some leaves on trees as being a visible set and that 'constellation' would have the same objective reality, ie none.
Spotter.
@@michellelewis3063 it’s just an asterism. WAT
That wasn't funny.
The full Ursa Major constellation does make a decent looking bear, except for the tail.
It could easily represent a different animal with a tail dependent on the location and culture.
The artwork on the walls at this location just blows my mind away. It’s so simply but yet so awesome to look at.
Hey man you did an amazing job , thanks for the informative video!
Im so glad i found your page, you help these third shifts go by faster 😊
I love the way we keep having to adjust our timelines for how long human civilization has been around. It's always much longer than we think.
Humans have been around for something like 300,000 years. Makes you wonder what we were doing for 288,000 years or so.
Reminds me of a green text I saw
>humans have been around for 300k years
>all of recorded history happens in 20k years
>that leaves 288k years of nothing
>SOMETHING DOESNT ADD UP
@@radiooperator3176 Recorded history, you including archaeological digs or are you talking civilizations that did their own recording, aka written language? Jericho was supposedly founded 9600 BC. I think its kind of assumed to be the first place you would call a city.
@jeff k
Can’t remember. It was just a green text that I’d thought you guys would get a kick out of
I loved studying Gobekli Tepe in college. There's some interesting wall art made with pigments in the dwellings, including one of a mountain that can be seen from the location, with a birdseye view of the buildings of the site underneath it.
So a functional map, not just pretty looking art
Pretty sure you are thinking of Catalhoyuk
@@grbradsk Oh you're right! Brain scramble 😣
First time here!
That was a smooth transition into your sponsor right there! I didn't even see it coming! 😂
Great content. You got my sub dude 😊
There is a misconception amongst modern archeologists that agriculture began with grains. Agriculture actually began with groves of oak trees. For an unknown amount of time before the advent and domestication of corn, rice, and wheat, humans processed and ate acorns. Look up acorn flower for more information. The reason humans switched over from acorn based grain diet to wheat, corn, and rice grain based diet is because the grass related plants require less processing than acorns do. You have to leech Tannen out of crushed acorns with slowly moving water. It can be done, but it's more labor intensive than just removing the chaff from wheat.
One of the theories I read a while back, involving the animals that weren't native to the Gobeli Tepe area, was that the builders were survivors of either the first or second massive ocean rise at the end of the ice age. And the pillars were a way to memorialize their previous culture that was lost under 400ft of ocean rise.
This theory has stuck with me, and I have wondered if that may have been a/the source of the Noah's Ark myth--with the retelling of the story evolved from the monument to a boat, over time.
Have you watched the Joe Rogan Experience episodes with Graham Hancock and Randall Carson? Highly recommend
@@MrKelerman ---Those are the only interviews I can stand to watch on Rogan's channel.
That's not turkey, that's geographically ancient Armenian Land
@@MrKelerman I would highly unrecommend them, given the unfortunately unscientific approach of people like Hancock.
Sweatnam proposes that those animals are symbols of prehistoric Zodiac. He supported his hypothesis with matching the most common animal on *cave paintings* , a period stretching tens of millenia, with the zodiac of equinox. Sure, the dating of cave paintings is often very unsure, but this problem can be partially overcame with statistics.
I don't know if he's correct. I only know that the only critiques of his hypothesis I ever came across were disappointing. Like, "You are not an archaeologist, you have no right to say anything" , that sort of stuff.
The Big Dipper is just the butt and tail portion of the bear, Ursa Major. The whole, much larger, constellation looks quite bearish when viewed altogether
If you "connect the dots", the dipper's handle is the bear's nose, the dippers bowl is a saddle on the bear's back, three pairs of stars beneath become 3 out of 4 paws, and even the left rear leg of the bear can be defined by connecting rather dimmer stars
Light pollution is the most slept on pollution.
Thank you
Ursa Major: "Well actually, a lot of people think that's my tail, but as I tell the ladies, that ain't my tail". LoL
I think Orion is pretty clearly a person holding a bow, having a belt, a dagger...
And Scorpio(n) is really a scorpion.
The rest... less clear
I need to rewatch this one again. I’m a YEC and love diving deep into genesis and other OT books. But ancient civilizations have always been interesting to me and have enjoyed Joe’s shows since I found his channel march 2020.
You are the maestro at pronouncing these old site names. Sincerely. Very cool. If I tried that, I'd have to get out a rolling pin to flatten my tongue back to normal. Haha. Outstanding video!
I jumped with glee when I noticed you had made a video on Gobekli Tepe! Your videos on history are my absolute favorite. In fact there's yet another ancient site, Skara Brae, a Neolithic settlement in Scotland. Please cover that in one of your videos too.
+1
+2
You jumped with glee? Wow. You should see a therapist
Tim. You have to work those demons out brother 😂😂. You’ve literally demonstrated in your simple sentence that you truly need a therapist and… honestly.
@@JoeyDediashvili WTF are you talking about boy? I was just pointing out that is the most unmanly thing that I have ever heard that someone jumped with Glee because they seen a RUclips video. That sounds like something that somebody with a mental illness would do
Man stories like these makes you wish time machines were real and you can go back in time and observe these ancient cities and people
Edit: woah … over a 1k likes, thanks guys
They might be real...
come on now, you know it was us! we've all been alive since then!
The only problem with a time machine is that we would go back with our preconceived ideas of how reality is and not with an open mind and try to interject our beliefs or judge with our preconceived ideas. They had ways of doing things that we just don't understand.
we can't time travel because it's way too complex. the earth is orbiting the sun (while rotating), which is orbiting the center of the milky way (while the solar system is rotating), which is hurtling through space at unknown speeds with little reference to much else (following its own elongated rotation). the earth is not in the same location it was yesterday, not to mention decades, centuries, or millennia. even if you could travel backwards through time, without all the right coordinates, you'd arrive in the past to empty space (or worse if that's possible). and if time travel is theorized to start a whole new branch of time/reality (as not to create a paradox in your original reality), you'd need enough energy to start a whole new universe
Lot of cannibals back then.
Also if they saw you there is a good chance you'd be killed or sacrificed.
"Howdy stranger" wasn't big back then.
I have always been a little confused by the idea that all humans all around the world developed the exact same way, but absolutely did not have any contact with each other...
Believe it or not most behaviors are genetic and driven by the gradual accumulation of traits
@@clairehann2681 no. its a worldwide empire.
We are a same species after all. Cats in your country and cats in mine behave the same as well. It’s determined by our genes and instincts on one side, and our surrounding context on the other. All humanity had to face similar struggles, like needing food (hunted, gathered and eventually farmed), defend from enemies (created weapons and eventually built walls), protection from weather (created clothes and built houses), etc. Now, not all did, those who weren’t able to, perished. But those aren’t the ones we learn from, we study those first civilizations who are the ones who made it, as they did these things, like the sumerians, egyptians, chinese. What do they have in common? Fertile rivers that allowed for better agriculture to feed their population and build a society that could last. When you think about it, it actually does make a lot of sense
@@jackdaws7125that and there are only so many ways to skin a cat.
*Noah has entered the chat*
You have a new follower! Also, those blades really cool!
Awesome to give this topic some love! I actually visited Gobeklitepe last year. The site itself is not very impressive because you cant get that close.
The Sanliurfa Museum is really impressive though. Complete with lifesize reconstructions of the site itself. You can walk through them as you learn about the history. Its also really rich in ancient artifacts, which are well explained. Highly recommended!
Jericho being inhabited for 11,000 years is absolutely bananas...
Fits the bible tho
@@lilwater7358 a couple things fit, several thousand don't.
Doesn't the Bible just talk of Jericho being destroyed? That doesn't fit so much. 😉
@@j4y167 you realize that with so much hate surrounding the Bible; any evidence proving the Historical or Spiritual aspects of the Bible wrong would be front page news. Too many people think the Bible has errors, yet none of those errors have been substantiated.
Meanwhile the Koran was so broken, the Muslims needed three 'scriptures' to try to bridge the gaps and those also contradict each other. Evolution changes every time a Scientist wants his name written in History, the older Buddas were buried over newer versions, all of the ancient religions (save for the Bible) have been extinct for thousands of years.
It's almost as if there is something to the Bible, because 'history' wouldn't be 'broken' every time we found a new archaeological dig site that 'fixes' our misconceptions if we started to do what the Israelis have done. Read and point and find.
It would make sense that Turkey would hold some of the oldest sites, for that is where Noah disembarked from the Ark.
As they say: location, location, location! 😉
It's really amazing how hard these people are working to unearth our ancient ancestors stories that have been ground down to dust by the passage of time. Makes you wonder how long have we really been around for how long have we been anatomically us and had time to do all the amazing things we can do. Makes u ponder
This might be the first time I sat through an ad on youtube! Well done!
I always love stories of humans finding out they don't know anything. Thanks for the great uploads!
Haha well said 👏
Imagine what we won't know next time!
You know nothing Human.
We now know that several "scientific" fields are absolute nonsense.
Yeah. I always laugh when ppl say humans started doing x in this year. Why? Because that’s what we’ve found… like yeah, but there’s more shit we haven’t found or that has been erased from time. We don’t know shit and that’s cool too.
glad you finally did a video on this!!! another one of Turkey's great mysteries are the over *35 UNDERGROUND CITIES* of Cappadocia including Derinkuyu (20K residents), Kaymakli (3K residents), Matiate (70K residents) and many more ...
There’s a great episode of “Cities of the Underworld” that goes through it.
Just learned about this yesterday from a different RUclipsr so interesting!!
That's not turkey, that's geographically ancient Armenian Land
@@gamerk1625 I can guarantee you the people living there 8000 years ago did not identify as Armenian.
@@Pushing_Pixels I can guarantee you there have been DNA studies that connect modern ARMENIANS to these regions back 5,000 years , not Turkish. Do the research .
This is a very well thought out and presented video. He resists telling us that this site or that definitely means this! Which many RUclipsrs can't resist. Very good work.
That piece of brick you have probably isn't from the original ruins. Tourist destinations scatter rubble around places like that knowing tourists love to pick them up. The actual ruins are kept very neat and tidy.
Do you mind sharing your source on this? I’ve lived in Rome and never saw evidence of this there at least.
@@murvo I'm afraid it's a self source, so I have nothing to link you. I lived in Athens for two years from 2007-2009 and helped my housemate do his job on a few occasions, which was scattering palm sized and smaller pieces of limestone about the North Portico of the Erechtheion of the Acropolis. It had to be done at least two hours after the site had closed to visitors and I think be done by two hours before it reopened. It never took more than an hour so I'm not sure on that last time-frame.
It was a local guy who dug up the first part of it and he still works at the site is like a tour guide he was the one who really realized this wasn't a medieval cemetery he already knew that he had something that was went back way far
The Parthenon in Athens, so many people were taking little pieces it was destroying the place. So now the city government regularly dumps irregular chips of marble around the building. People can take one of those and be happy that they have a piece of the Parthenon. 😅
But now that they know thosr are probably fake, maybe they'd just chip off stone from the actual structure! 😱
When I visited the remains of the Roman Forum in Rome over 50 years ago our touring group was told the same, that chips were regularly scattered by site workers to fool the tourists. So Joe, have you had your little souvenir carbon dated recently? 🤣🤣
@@wilburjunior9949 Outside the big turist traps its a lot more hands on. So much so that here in Germany I probably could go and dig a hole and have a good chance to come across a roman garbadge dump.
That's smart, LOL.
Its hard to admit there was many settlements in the area which breaks our history .
How could it be hard to Admit if humans have been around for ~150,000 years chisling rocks and stacking rocks in that time seems pretty comprehensable to me in that time frame...
it breaks nothing, it widens our understanding , that is all.
This was very interesting! I've been interested in Gobekli Tepe for a few years in my research into ancient religions in that region. It is a very cool, mysterious place. I learned a lot, can't wait to browse your channel.
Yeah mate , been looking into gobleki tepi for 10 years mostly from alternative sources. Good to hear the straighty 180 information.
I've always wondered when people talk about Gobekli Tepe is why don't they bring up a marketplace and abattoir? It seems to me that places like Stonehedge and these other sites could have been the first cross-sections of the hunter-gathers interacting with each other and the nascent farming community. The reason why there would be a wide range of bones would be that animals would be brought from far-off lands to be slaughtered or purchased by the farming community that would have grazing animals as well to sell to the hunters and gatherers. If you think about it, the first profession that would cross both civilizations would be a professional butcher, and a whole community of butchers, apothecaries, and skinners operating and hanging animals from these T-shaped pillars to drain blood, get meat, collect organs, and skin and such makes a lot of sense. Every part of the animals would be marketed and sold.
I wanted to say the same as you, but expand on it: what if they also used these sites as maps and indications of what animals and at what times of the years to go in certain directions. Waypoints of some sort. A hunter-gatherer community that came back to the same spot every fall to market, feast and exchange stories, would have a need to indicate what places to go and what to expect there.
Maybe buried later, because of war. You dont want your enemies to know where to find food in your country. Hunting and gathering hot spots might have been places to fight over with other tribes. So a need to socialize and create allies could have been the starting point to these civilizations.
I don't buy the idea that people lived for thousands and thousands of years without optimizing anything until, sudenly, crops and then cities and whatnot.
@@JuanCLeal yeah, that's never sat well with me either, and it has to do with historical evidence, too. Several ancient cities like Sumeria and Egypt have evidence of debt-based economies, yet we have no explanation for what commodities we're at the heart of what led to the debt system. It's long been my thinking that barter systems give way to debt systems once the growth rate passes Dunbar's number, the number of relationships our brains can reasonably maintain, which is about 150. This would go a long way towards explaining the mass farming solutions that rose up to create these larger ancient cities (and later state).
GT has always kind of existed as this sort of evidence that a barter system beyond 150 people might have worked, but only because the Civilization surrounding it might have just been smaller hunter gather groups that made pilgrimages or treks into town every season or so from surrounding areas.
That's an often forgotten part of ancient churches. Even the Jews for a time didn't always burn the whole offering, sometimes it was just the bones with the rest being eaten. In some ancient religions the temple was partially funded by selling the meat from sacrifices, sort of like a collection plate as people donated animals or grain rather than donating gold
It is interesting for sure. Although, if that form of "commerce" (to barter with acquired or produced goods/raw materials to obtain other goods/raw materials, at a centralized location that the other beings mutually agreed to set and meet at, presuming these people practiced and observed the passing of and into a "next" day, and communicate just how many "next" days until to meet again, as a market as you say) was truly present among a farming community and hunter gatherers, there would be presumably a notion of logical thinking, right? Lets say: A goods/raw materials has intrinsic value equal to or greater than B goods/raw materials. If you would agree that that sort of thinking (that of a market and a barter system using thought process of something having equal to or greater than value to something else) is within the realm of what we now consider logical, then that would mean they would have had logical thinking capabilities, correct?
In that case, no logical thinking motherfucker is gonna put gigantic rocks, impossible for one or many men to pick up mostly by means of their muscle fibers (likely), in the form of Stonehenge, and hang animals to butcher and barter. LMAO. Have a good day friend. I hope this makes you laugh.
@@naturalbornpatriot6369 Maybe a purely logical person wouldn’t do that, but we’re hardly known for doing things that strictly
There have been so many more discoveries and revisions of what we know about Gobekli Tepe and the even older Karahan Tepe since this video published. I know it's probably a long shot but I hope to see an update video from Joe at some point! Archaeology is one of the most interesting fields in my opinion.
Thank you this is the most in-depth video I've seen on this subject
So glad you brought up Jericho. It’s one of my favorite ancient cities to learn about. And the continuous nature of its inhabitancy is fascinating.
Technically it was just a settlement for the first several thousand years. Still super awesome, especially that people still live there after 10000+ years.
@@liftedmarco4976 technically... your definition of "city" is an arbitrary one so... yeah... stfu
@@nooneofconsequence1251 it is arbitrary but part of the definition of a city is organized leadership and a minimum population, which most ancient settlements like Jericho lack evidence for.
Wasn’t Jericho destroyed and rebuilt in different places several times over its history?
@@garretthes yes but that is typical of many ancient settlements due to natural disasters, and human violence, movement, and settlement.
In the 60's the house in my village was built from bricks formed from clay, baked and delivered by the same person (my grandfather). Everybody made and carried their own bricks by the river.
1st video I've seen from Joe, what a quality!
In a hunter gatherer society, isn't it possible that group(s) of people would move around large areas around a central area? That would make it easy for them in times of need. They could store belongings there and people too. Whether it was to caretake the location or the people left between visits by the group(s), someone waiting in place with time to waste could eventually start cultivating crops or even keeping animals.
That just seems like a good explanation for how society transitioned from hunter gathering to agricultural farming. And if it happened once, maybe it happened multiple times. Maybe the transition didn't always stay permanent..
Anyone who really studies history knows there are many things which don't make sense to our current understanding of history.
Pushing the boundaries of what we know about the beginnings of human civilizations is always exciting to me. I've been keeping up on Göbekli Tepe (at a amateur level) for a couple years now and am fascinated by it. Thank you for providing a more in depth synopsis of what has been discovered about Göbekli Tepe, Joe! Great work as usual!
I used to live in Malta, and there are many of those megalithic temples. Those tend are to protect the rock from weathering damages
I haven't bought razor blades in years, decades even. Thankful that aging has stopped my hair growth exactly where I want and has not, yet, affected my head of hair.
Wow, I just finished reading "The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity" and then this video was uploaded! I highly recommend reading that book as it talks about these and other archeological finds and their huge implications for human history!
I majored in Anthropology in college and I’m reading through that book now and I’ve always loved David Graeber’s works!
I work in tech now, but I’m fascinated by our tool-making throughout history and how our psychological makeup in making tools applies to us today and I use such skills and know-how in my work to make digital tools better for people!
The Dawn of Everything…
And the Silk Roads…
I’m going to the book store tomorrow!
That's not turkey, that's geographically ancient Armenian Land
It is an excellent book.
@@gamerk1625 that’s definitely turkey and ancient dna clearly not Armenian
Went there earlier this year, the site is very cool indeed, but the real experience was at the SanliUrfa museum, where most of the site excavations are taken and displayed. With an unbelievable mosaic museum right next door. If you go, make sure you get the tour guide headset!!
P.S: Gobekli tepe isnt the only site found. There are a lot more sites in the same area being discovered. So the museum has separated the different "tepes" inside the museum, and gives a detailed history rundown on the different artifacts found.
And that nice pilar with the date engraved, the fall of the meteors and of the dryas. So freaking awesome.
Remember don't just listen to Graham Hancock for anthropology...
The mind blowing thing is the time-span between each, individual civilization. I mean, USA is only a couple of hundred years and European North and South America, a little over 500 years old. These ancient finds have millennia separating them.
When I first heard about Gobekli Tepe, it re-ignited my passion for history and anthropology. Its an amazing find, and one I check up on yearly.
I was once part of an international team on a research trip. At one point I said something about the big and little dippers, and a Belgian in the group asked me what those were. When I said Ursa Major and Minor (or Big Bear, Little Bear, I don't remember which) he knew exactly what I was talking about. 😁
In Lithuania we call them Grįžulo ratai, which can be translated as chariot wheels, or chariot going in a circle, one of the myths calls it Perkūno ratai, chariot of Perkūnas, it's similar to Zeus or Thor god figure.
In German it's "der große Wagen" and "der kleine Wagen", basically "the big cart" and "the small cart"
cause in Dutch they're called little and big bear
In Italian, they're both known as major/minor female bear and big/little cart.
This is crazy. We do see evidence of huge saws used to cut into the granite but there is still so much we have absolutely no idea about.
I watched the video “10 Places You’re Not Allowed to Visit” and I think there’s probably more places you can’t visit. For example, there’s an island in Beaufort, SC called Morgan’s Island. But, the locals call it “monkey island” because there are thousands of rhesus monkeys thriving there. Its illegal to try to access the island for fear of spreading diseases. Also, love all the vids Joe!
Thanks for INFO! Brand NEW to me!
(12:25) Shots of these ancient stone structures reminds me of the short story in the Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury where a human meets a Martian and each claims that the other is the ghost. It really made you think about how we perceive both time and the permanence of the things we build and how others will think of them when we are long gone... 😉
Great stuff about Goekli Tempe, But man the razor is the best I’ve used!no joke
I wached the ad, because u deserve it.....and I never watch ads lol......top stuff dude
YES JOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I love seeing this kind of thing getting out to the masses. I'm also very glad you have chosen not to tell both sides of the story and not just given the idea that "this was just hunter gatherer's and nothing special, we certainly don't have to re-write bits of our history books" lol
It's finds like these that should make us take the stories of cultures more seriously and maybe consider that there have been more advanced civilizations around that we just haven't dug up yet...
What the Archaeologists say about Martin Sweatman's work is ridiculous, he has used a rigorous analytic, scientific method to statistically show that the carvings are very likely to be astronomical and then you get the Archaeologists say... nah I don't think it works like that......
checkout Ancient Architects channel here on youtube really interesting.
@@robski907 Been subbed for years mate ^^ Id HIGHLY Recommend History For Granite if you like Matt's channel =)
@@gotMylky thank's I'll check it out ;)
The past is always an interpretation even if the stars themselves are not.
Just found a book called "Against the Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States" that I'm starting to read. Might be worth checking out?
If you do 3 equal size circles and place them as close as they can be they'll always make an equilateral triangle between the center of the circles.
Yes! Seems pretty obvious really
points like this drive me crazy when people prescribe mystical knowledge based on misunderstanding math. no the golden ratio does not appear everywhere, approximates to the golden ratio with a pretty huge error bar appear everywhere. they didn't use advanced math to build three buildings in a triangle.
I learned more in those 16 minutes than I learned in an entire semester of Anthropology 101 at O****n College. I even enjoyed the razor commercial. It reminded me of one of those throw away headlines from The Onion about 10 or 12 years ago that went something like "CEO of Gillette announces at trade show: 'fuck it we're doing 8 blades'" (3 blades had just come into vogue).
Ooh I have never been romanced into an ad like this. I hate it, but well played, Friend. And now I'm listening to the ad as I'm writing this. You genius!!!
For sure Gobekli Tepe is a really interesting site. Thanks. for covering it Joe, I hadn't realized that there were other Tepe sites of a similar age nor did I know the significance of Jerico. One thing that stands out to me here though is that Turkey is the place where most animals were first domesticated. I wonder if they had the beginnings of domestic animals at those Tepe sites? Domestic animals could have been their start into agriculture and a more luxurious life.
Good video. I'm glad you mentioned the other even older sites. Some estimates puts one of the older sites at about 14,000 plus or minus a few centuries BCE or about 2000 yrs before Gobekli Tepe. Seems to me that the folks at that time were trying to build an organized society but went thru several reiterations before they finally got it all together which resulted in Gobekli Tepe and the other Tepe sites. Many things about these folks and that general time period are fascinating. There are always more questions than answers.
Great mimi documentary. Fantastic presentation. Just the right amount of humour and sinicism. Very instructive. Nice one . Thank you brptjer6 ✌
I remember learning about this in the early 2010s and coming away with such a negative view of the field of archaeology. They weren't just following the evidence and updating conclusions as it developed, they were circling wagons to protect theories/narratives and only changing their minds when it became impossible not to, without ever addressing their previous resistance. They were so dismissive about this one site, and it turns out this one site is just one among many that no one found for so long because they had narratives and didn't want to even entertain any evidence that contradicted them.
Damn Joe good job. I bet I've spent 15 hours researching GT this past week just for my own interest, and now I've got one of your videos. If I could afford patreon or whatever I'd be giving you tons of it. Thank you again
Give us more ancient civilizations mystery! Love that stuff, and love your channel!
check out Graham Hancock , Randall Carlson at JRE ....
Oddly enough, my 22 year old son asked for a safety razor for Christmas this year, so that is what he got. He absolutely loves it.
Hands down the best ad transition I’ve ever heard.
I actually laughed out loud when you transitioned the topic to saving and then your promoted product. Well done. Very slick 👍
What comes first when it comes to advertising these days too - Saving or managing to sell an already finished product? Like for example saving up for the perfect blade to shave our skin? Why are so many people today being expected to shave anyway? To make them look more Asian too or what?
This is perfect... I've been so obsessed with Gobekli Tepe recently and I am sooo happy you got on the train too
He is only capitalizing on the popularity. He is way firmly planted in the timeline his belief system has established.
That's not turkey, that's geographically ancient Armenian Land
This site is what got me interested in studying history and anthropology
The old single blades my dad had from the 50s you could sharpen also.
You should do an entire series on the ancient civilizations and the lore and history of the ancient sites. the drama around it. id love that
Especially the history of history. It's always fun to see what people used to think about particular sites.
The Big Dipper is an asterism that's part of a larger constellation known as Ursa Major (The Great Bear) and is not the entirety of that constellation. They didn't see just the big dipper and call it a bear, it was also not uniquely Greek. Many cultures in the ancient world that had no contact and shared no star lore considered those stars to form a great bear. The Big Dipper is a more modern asterism that is more recognizable today due to light pollution drowning out the rest of the constellation. It is likely that other cultures could have seen similar constellations resembling the same animals. It is also noteworthy that many Greek constellations we recognize today did not originate in Greece, many were adopted from earlier cultures and civilizations such as Sumer and Babylon, and possibly even before that. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the theory that there may be some constellation art on such a prehistoric monument, our ancestors were quite obsessed with the skies.
The constellation story of "the Breaker" is mentioned in the Old Testament. It infers that the coming Messiah is the Breaker that is predicted by the stars.