The BIZARRE, 26,000 year old TRIPLE BURIAL of Dolní Věstonice
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- Опубликовано: 23 ноя 2024
- We take a look at the mysterious 26,000 year old triple burial from Dolní Věstonice. This discovery is not only bizarre, but it's also one of the oldest human burials ever found!
Three teenagers were laid to rest in a common grave, near a village called Dolní Věstonice in the Czech province of Moravia. They were laid side by side and the Their bodies had been placed such that the individual on the right had been buried face down, while the individual on the left had his hand placed over the middle skeleton’s pelvic area, which in turn had been covered in red ochre.
Go figure! We wouldn't dare - we're just the messengers! 😳
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I’m never too startled to discover that certain peoples had lunar or star calendars. I believe that early peoples were as smart as some our smartest. With thousands of years to look up at the stars, no light pollution and such, the stars were the greatest display on hand!
Yup. they were as intelligent as us. They were our ancestors. They just didnt have the accumulation of 26,000years of knowledge that homo sapiens in total has today. Plus re stars i am old enough to recall being able to see the milky way and thousands of stars st night even from our town back garden. Now, even though I live 50k away from a small city the light pollution means I havent seen more than a few stars for years. It must have been even more wonderful back then looking up at the night sky.
The odd thing is, 26000 years ago, it was one full cycle of the precession of the equinoxes in the past, so the stars they saw would be much the same as the ones we see now, with Polaris as the pole star.
Arguments are being made that civilization has stopped human evolution. As a species we no longer have to improve our survivability to ensure continuation of the species. Persons who at one time would be passed over as breeding partners are now procreating and passing possibly destructive genes into the future.
And literally nothing safe to do on dark nights. They looked up.
As long as they lived in areas with significantly different seasons they needed to know the time of year, to stock up for the winter.
Learning enough astronomy to do that is not actually very difficult.
X-linked chondrodysplasia punctata 1 is a disorder of cartilage and bone development that occurs almost exclusively in males. Chondrodysplasia punctata is an abnormality that appears on x-rays as spots (stippling) near the ends of bones and in cartilage. In most infants with X-linked chondrodysplasia punctata 1, this stippling is seen in bones of the ankles, toes, and fingers; however, it can also appear in other bones. The stippling generally disappears in early childhood.
Other characteristic features of X-linked chondrodysplasia punctata 1 include short stature and unusually short fingertips and ends of the toes. This condition is also associated with distinctive facial features, particularly a flattened-appearing nose with crescent-shaped nostrils and a flat nasal bridge.
People with X-linked chondrodysplasia punctata 1 typically have normal intelligence and a normal life expectancy. However, some affected individuals have had serious or life-threatening complications including abnormal thickening (stenosis) of the cartilage that makes up the airways, which restricts breathing. Also, abnormalities of spinal bones in the neck can lead to pinching (compression) of the spinal cord, which can cause pain, numbness, and weakness. Other, less common features of X-linked chondrodysplasia punctata 1 include delayed development, hearing loss, vision abnormalities, and heart defects.
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain it!! I came to the comments looking for this. Much appreciated good sir!!
Thanks for that detail!
Could they have died of this genetic disease that could have run in this family’s genome?🧬
This is an amazing explanation, thank you ❤
Maybe it's just me, but those 26,000 year-old winter coats look MIGHTY stylish and I want one!
It's incredible that the colors are still so vivid! I just started watching this very interesting video, and I'm hoping they will focus on the Beauty of the clothing..I see embroidery at first glance..
@@robertafierro5592 The colours are vivid because you're looking at the artist's rendering of what the burial might have looked like. Fabrics, animal hides, and human soft tissue rarely survive 2.6 years of burial, much less 26,000.
Wait long enough and everything eventually comes back into fashion right?
@@davidbennett9691 Good callout.
There has been proof of textile fabrics worn for at least 40k though.
Actual fabrics in china and the levante have survived from only ca 6000BC - but we have found impressions of textile on baked clay in considerably older digging horizons.
And body lice genetics hint at humans starting to wear clothing about 50-40k ago.
@davidbennett9691 oh no! You mean it's not real? This click bait gets everywhere. :(
Since it was indicated that the grave was on a slope, I wondered if the positions (hand over pelvis and face down) could have been an action of gravity and time.
Excellent question!
I suspect you'd see more disruption than just the bodies being tumbled over if that was the case.
Not if (?) it happened while their flesh waa still intact-a bit @@sandfly60
Earth quakes, tectonic movements, floods… over 26k yrs?
For people who lived in relatively small groups, three young males dying at around the same time would presumably have been a rare occurrence. Assuming none of them were deliberately killed, it suggests an accident or a disease outbreak. The fact they were all related and presumably lived in close proximity, maybe sharing food or water sources, could mean they were all exposed to the same pathogen and died close together as a result. The strange pose might have been just because their community wanted to bury them quickly because they were worried about the contagion spreading.
The weird position of the arm over the middle body might even be rigor mortis- if the three got sick and two died, the community might have dug the grave for two, then when the third died, added him in as well, without waiting for the rigor to pass, as they'd presumably not want the other bodies beginning to decompose or attract scavengers. It might also be that three deaths so close together were interpreted as having some superstitious significance that required a ritualistic burial or other special treatment of the dead.
That may explain the one face down !
Love love love your analysis
Could be. Could be a hundred other possibilities, eh?
Man those are some good points.. so I guess there is no way to even guess what sort of pathogen may kill three family members so quickly? If it is so deadly then maybe would be more evidence for that
It’s so interesting to think what such an accident would look like 26,000 years ago? taking three family members out at once? Or atleast contemporaneously
Great points... just watched Stefan Milo's piece on early bronze age black plague. Maybe these three boys died of plague?
When I first read about this burial in Jean M Auel's "The Mammoth Hunters", I was very young and thought her explanation plausible. In the decades since, I learned more about the scientific process, and started to think of it as mostly a cute bit of fiction.
By now I have reread the series so many times and compared it to newer science and my increased span of knowledge. It is almost coming full circle, that woman did some great research while writing!
The events described in the book series are all plausibly described, but the likelihood of it all being related to one person seems slim.
On the other hand, for customs to change an outside agent is often required. Learning to see what you grew up with through the eyes of a stranger teaches you to question habits and look for better solutions. People who travel get to compare customs in different places and show and tell about what people do in other places. Their brains connect synapses in a different way from people who don't travel, and over time they can adapt an ease of adapting to newness.
And now I might have to find "The Clan of the Cave Bear" again, to start another series reread...
*_"When I first read about this burial in Jean M Auel's "The Mammoth Hunters"..."_*
I don't recall that. But it's been a few decades. I read her first three or four books of the _Earth's Children_ series. At the time, I read all those that had been published. Clan of the Cave Bear, Mammoth Hunters, Valley of the Horses and I forget the other.
{:o:O:}
@@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095 I was incorrect about the book, it occurs in the beginning of "Plains of Passage", which is book four of the series.
My life long interest in prehistory began whilst reading and re-reading the entire series, and I've read the entire series of five books at least seven times. She was so ahead of her time!
@erinstown:They "adapt an ease of adapting"? Wouldn't "develop" Be a better choice for the first adapt?
@@Laura-y4h Correct, but slightly less artistic. If I can, I write with a bit of flair and also make it possible for a reader to really ponder the meaning of the word "adapt"... It's my inner teacher, I guess, along with an antiauthoritarian streak, but still respecting the playful beauty of language.
Think about it: adapting for adaptation. What does it imply? How can it be done? How can one develop a flexibility of thinking, an ease at understanding new concepts, and be open to respect and even enjoy the unknown? The first adaptation makes the next a tiny bit easier, thus making a third adaptation more plausible.
So refreshing to hear two intelligent people talking sense and not exaggerating nor dramatising the subject. Locally (S. Wales) we have the skeleton of the Red “Lady” of Paviland whose body also was stained with red ochre. However this burial has been dated to between 30-33,000 old.
They didnt say anything about the fired clay figurines were clay mixed with powdered bone. Almost 27,000 years ago. We still mix something with clay today to make a better product than just taking some clay and making a little dog, or something. I’m impressed.
This is called tempering- crushed shells, stone or in this case, bits of bone are added to strengthen the integrity of clay. It helps to prevent cracking and breaking in the firing process.
Didn't early Iron Age peoples mix bone with Iron, too, they found? To make their swords stronger with the spirits of their ancestors, not knowing it really did create a stronger metal?
Bravo gentlemen. After I retired, I became fascinated in learning new things. This was great information. I’ve often wondered , thru DNA analysis, if I am related to any of these newly discovered burials. My maternal family is from the Czech region. Keep up the great work.
This site bears a starkling resemblance with the Kostenki - Borshevo, at the Don river in Russia, which is dated around the same time. It would be interesting to know if there was some kind of connection between the two. Is there any possibility that you guys could find out more on that?
This is so good that I had to watch it twice.
Now I have a different interpretation. Despite the obvious comedy value in the anthropological record here.....
We have 3 closely related male hunter gatherers here. In my experience of living in a modern hunter gather group, I would guess these guys were hunting buddies. Even if this group were mammoth specialists, I think we can all agree that variety is the spice of life. A group of 3 might be after smaller game.
The presence of an unrelated body nearby suggests there was a settlement here or close by.
It might have been that the three young hunters were lost or succumbed to the elements during a cold time. They might have simply just been frozen in those positions and buried that way to keep them together, or make the funeral easier. Things we will never know. The one buried face down may be symbolic, but it's also possible he died face up and the vultures and foxes ate his face off.
What we can tell is there was a ceremonious burial that had some degree of symbolic elements.
I really want to know more about the ability of people so far in the past to master textile manufacturing. That's incredible and I wasn't aware of that before.
And that's why it's always good to read the replies.....you may have got somewhere close to the truth.
@@matthall143 I'm just making conjectures of things we will never know, but I lived in deep bush Alaska for awhile, and surprise storms can come up and take even the most hardened and experienced hunters.
Utzi's arm was turned over at an odd angle too and frozen.
@@alexandrasmith4393 I imagine people fall and die in pretty bad poses a lot
Painting and masking up for hunting is a thing.
I had a friend working as a pipefitter in a hot humid setting in the south. His foreman got a week off due to severe diaper rash. He asked the old hands at lunch how to avoid this problem. They each reached in their pockets and pull out little tobacco pouches of corn starch. They said dust with this son. Possibly ocher was used for this purpose. The younger males may have been caretakers for the handicapped one. The one facing down may have been looking out for threats from the underground. Bears come out of caves and hibernation tunnels. The old male burial with an ochre'd crotch may have very possibly been incontinent and needed a frequent ochre dusting. Gairika (Red Ochre) is supposed to be used to treat pustules. It may not be just the hematite or limonite but also a clay it is found with.
The big question then is why do humans tend the handicap. Old people are our Gigabytes of storage...so before books etc they were certain very valuable. What about other less capable young disabled humans? Is there a competitive edge to what may be easily seen as a waste of resources? A child specialist once told me that if we cured autism silicon valley would fold. Also maybe we would have never decoded Mayan writings. Thus a unforeseen evolutionary edge for what some may think is an overly compassionate society. 'Nuf said?
And near sighted people are best for weaving and flint knapping while the far sighted are best hunters. And colour-blind men are less fooled by camouflage, good for seeing the tiger hiding in the tall grass. That was figured out in WWII.
From another comment it seems the genetic abnormality was not completely disabling. I’m going with the comment by a person who lived in Alaska, that three family hunters got lost in a storm. I lived there too, that happened. Also whole families die in fires.
And thank you for the child specialist comment which I suspected after visiting a Microsoft campus several times, and noting the large number of autistic employees, it seemed like a weird kind of slave underclass tending to all sorts of boring duties. It was truly disturbing. Add to that the occasional few who can outperform computers, I even wondered if we are purposely breeding lots of autistic people as there are more and more of them. As in out of every ______ people there will be ______ who can ______ . I wondered if they never have to worry about them stealing secrets. Did you know all kids are screened in schools now, supposedly to eliminate bias, but what an easy way to identify all sorts of skills.
I also love the comment about nearsightedness being useful as built-in magnification.
The Victorian obsession with ritual and symbolism seems alive and well, leading to bizarre interpretations of the red ochre found on their heads and groins. Are we to ignore the much more practical and logical use of iron-rich clays to treat head lice and pubic lice? There are extant cultures which still use this effective treatment.
Thanks. Whatever compelling personal story from that grave must remain lost to time. But the careful attention to their burial is a poignant remembrance of their lives from so long ago. Gravettian life must've been amazing. If I could be a time-tourist, I'd visit their world first.
I wonder when I see the positions of the bodies in this burial, and considering their assumed age, whether or not they were part of a small group and someone younger / less physically strong was left to bury the bodies. I can imagine trying to move a deceased body would be difficult, and might require rolling them into the grave. It might explain the flung arms on the one body, and the face-down position of the other. Whoever buried them might simply have been unable to physically re-position them once in the grave.
You too are a hoot! What a delightful conversation to share with us. Thank you 😊
Just to point out we still put "make up" on our dead today...
26000yrs!!! amazing. Thank you for the video.
Some times it boogles the mind that entire "towns and comunities" lived in areas that the last glaciation covered with ice a few 1000s years later.
We as society, live without fear of nature. Without memory of our past.
Climate will change and I don't think we are ready for it
26000 years ago! How can that be 🤔 The world is only 6000 years young. 😄
its always changed, and much more than now
💯 % Truth
Suddenly, all the "Tepe's" in Turkey, aren't that interesting! lol. What resonates with me about these burials is the amount of care put into it. It shows just how "human" they were. That someone loved them as deeply as we love our own. I think we tend to feel the people of that time were somehow diff. than us today. Less intelligent, with less emotion. I don't wanna write a book like I always do when I do comment. So much more I could say about the uniqueness of it all. I just wonder if the cause of death could be determined? Any broken bones, head trauma etc....? Killed during a hunt that went wrong or something like that? I know...go down the rabbit hole myself.
Thanks Guys!
Tepe's are still super cool.
This is in par.
My feelings about Gobekli Tepe haven't waned because of this. Quite the opposite, this is another piece of the puzzle that makes everything else richer.
We have been very human for well over 100,000 years.
I don't see how this diminishes all the Tepe's in Turkey. And when I think about why someone might say that... I can't think of one good reason.
@@PaulStringini oh calm down bud, everyone already knows you’re the arbiter of interest, oh so elegant 🤣🤣🤣
Wonderful site. 26000 year’s & quite accomplished. I am loving the advanced technologies we have so long assumed impossible, coming to light.
Vestonitse, not Vestniche. Pavlov is the next village to Dolni vestonice. Czech Republic, not Czechoslovakia, etc, etc.
By the way, if you happen to be visiting the city of Brno in the Czech Republic, the burial, all nine of the venuses and the other objects shown here are all being displayed together for the very first time at the Anthropos museum. Well worth a visit.
You are correct Kevin. Your pronunciation sounds much better to my 21 years in CZ ears. 😅
One critical fact is that "hunter-gatherers" are not a uniform technological and subsistence pattern. There is a range from very mobile social groups that essentially forage for necessities every day, to "complex hunter-gatherers" who often were no more mobile than their horticulturalist and agriculturalist descendants. Consider Göbekli Tepe for example, of as a far more contemporary example the Northwest Coast of North America where large wooden halls were built and monumental sculptures (totem poles) that would be every bit as awesome as Göbekli Tepe, were the structures and totem poles made of stone.
The strangest thing I find about this burial is that the one on the right was buried face down. Obviously so much care and attention was lavished on the burial, I can only assume that there was some significance to his position that I can only guess at.
I agree, it seems demeaning being faced down
I find these burials emotionally moving, in a way that is very hard to explain. In a time when life was brutally cold a challenging, the investment in these unfortunate members, must have been a very emotional experience for this small group.
Three young men in a common grave arranged in this odd manner imply a powerful magical connection.
Perhaps the burial is a sort of tribal talisman.
Up until Middle Ages, in Poland executed criminals (especially murderers) were buried face down. It was done to stop them from raising from the grave as wraiths - because after turning into evil spirits they would try to burrow their way out, but instead would dig themselves only deeper. Was that boy buried with victims of his crime? We will never know.
It's just a guess, but maybe he was considered at fault for all three deaths somehow. It's a really sad grave.
We’ve seen in the war in Ukraine how it is that people can end up buried face down: they get wrapped in blankets, mats, carpets etc after death, and there can be delay and ultimately two or three stages to transporting them, and sometimes reburial. In the process these packages of corpses often get turned and rolled over, when heaved in and out of vehicles, graves, coffins etc. There is no longer a clear back/face orientation and nobody wants to open the package and look.
You’re talking about mass graves though aren’t you? Only three here so surely they would have been able to determine front from back. Is there any evidence of wrapping in mats etc here? I doubt people of that era would be too squeamish to look and check if one was the wrong way round or not.
Thank you for covering this case, i remember learning about this in school, as I live in Czech Republic and the site is near my home. I was told the birth theory about this find. I'm so glad I got to hear this kinda update on it.
So excited to see a new video! Can't wait to sink my teeth (eyeballs?) into it this evening. I'm in the western US, and I save these to watch undistracted at night.
Thank you, I find this subject, fascinating as many people do. It’s fairly apparent that there was some kind of civilized society with a global connection before recorded history. When you think of what we’ve accomplished in the last thousand years? it gives rise to the old saying there is nothing new under the sun.
Looks to me the one in the middle was the beloved and "slow" whether only physical or both physical and developmental brother; the younger brother and half-brother/cousin were his protectors. I'd say that all three died of sickness, maybe drowning where the two died trying to rescue the older brother. (Which still happens to modern humans, where multiple drownings can happen.) The hand over the pelvis may have been originally an embrace across the chest where decay action may have caused the arm to move downward.
I was thinking it was some kind of human sacrifice, but I like your idea better.
Yes. And if they drowned, they may well have been carried to their grave rolled in mats or blankets. In Ukraine right now, burials are being disinterred where people have been buried face down just because once they are wrapped up, it becomes uncertain which way up they are. And in ad hoc burials, there may not be enough bearers, just a couple of people who have to use a heave-and-roll technique.
I've also seen where the body retracks , leaving behind a layer of dry skin with the shape a few inches away . In my case it was a foot !
yes I saw it as a protective pose as well. I thought that the middle chap and his half-brother or cousin might have been holding hands, particularly logical if the older chap had trouble moving about in life and needed assistance
Have very recently discovered your site. Excellent. Am obsessively rewatching everything. Am learning so much. Thank you.
Intriguing and thought provoking!! Thank You Guys!!
Guys, you still misspronounce Dolní Věstonice :-) You make mistake just at the end of name. "ce" is not "tche" but "tze" in english pronounciation. Google translator may help you, it pronounce it nearly as czech or moravian would pronounce. But absolutelly thank you for this topic. Greetings from czech republic. :-)
My head is now spinning with questions! Great video.
Where's Doggerlsnd on your map? It's missing, I'm sure it's supposed to be there for that time period.
Would have liked to have seen more closeups of the burial and pictures of the artifacts, not just you guys, not that you are bad looking.
Yes. I like to have time to study the pictures without needing to pause the video many times.
I want to see and know more about this site!!!
This also was about the time the cave paintings were made. some of the greatest art in the history of humanity. these peoples were not primitive!
I didn't even know about it and I was on holiday in that area, that's when I found out and ofcourse went to visit. It is truly breathtaking, you can't get your head around it, because it's from a period só long ago that one might even want to consider that civilisation began 20.000 years earlier. These people were not primitive at all.
Thanks for opening another window into human evolution and ancient civilization.
How about…3 teenage brothers trying to shelter inside a leanto out of the weather. They had food evidenced by bone in mouth. They had fire and cooking pot outside. They were dressed appropriately but suffocated possibly from the smoke of the burnt branches covering them.
Much has been discovered and much has been lost. Our civilisation and mere existence hang by the finest of threads. Fascinating and all rather scary.
Good luck, everyone!
Red ochre had religous symbolism but it ALSO had medicinal properties! Antibacterial, etc. it was used in funerals, true, but covering a dead body would slow down putrefaction and stink😘 which explains why it, and flowers, were used in funerals, in my opinion.
Ochre is also still used in some places in leather-processing as a preservative.
Good luck with that working. You couldn’t have seen many dead things.
26K years ago is simply incomprehensible to me.
Very interesting video! I'm glad I found it and watched it! I'm actually going to subscribe and watch more of your awesome stories!
Absolutely fascinating! The additional context with inserted images, etc., adds depth that I appreciated.
Thank you! Love these shorts👍👍
Wow fascinating.. thank you for sharing
Thank you. Can anyone tell me the earlest proof of cloth-weaving? 26,000 years ago is already staggering....
One thing mentioned was that the imprints of woven fabric have been found in the soil.
@@AmyBee4 yes that boy in Africa called the first evidence of ritual burial was wrapped in a blanket
sure, when adam and eve ate of the tree of good and evil, they were ashamed to be naked in the presence of God. God clothed them. eve knew how to weave aince she was like 60
@@GhostScout42 God always knew how to weave.
I found this by chance and was fascinated by the clothing which looked very Icelandic enriched skins made into clothing and buried in a time when one expects those items were valuable items to keep one warm in extreme cold, very realistic burial to be clothed like that and may mean we're from the head family. So long ago I would like to go back intr to the beginning of making things and their progression we are the ones left behind when you see the wonderful architecture in stone carvings writing etc that remains, out inability to build things that last and declining education of the most important things in life we live in a certain way but they were wonderful.
Great video. Thanks, Prehistory Guys.
I know a family that lost 3 family members in an accident.
A Father, his brother and his son.
Maybe they were all buried together because they were related or they died together?
Fascinating!! Such an incredible glimpse into our world history. 💯🏆 Thank you.
Absolutely fascinating, thank you
Another thing to contemplate is that the human migration into the Americas, which has recently been dated back to 20,000 or more years ago, would have been a culture on a par with that of the Dolni Venesti of 26,000 years ago.
This video is about a 26,000-year-old triple burial found in Donley vestanice, Czech Republic. The three individuals buried were two young men and an older man with a rare congenital disease. The burial was elaborate, with red ochre, animal bones, and teeth used to adorn the bodies. The central figure was covered with red ochre and had the hands of the younger man placed over his pelvis. The exact meaning of this burial remains a mystery, but it offers a glimpse into the complex beliefs and practices of the Gravettian culture.
Really enjoyed the talk. Very informative and interesting. Kudos.
my intro to Dolní Věstonice was of course Jean Auel's beautifully written "the Plains Of Passage" and I've always kept firmly in mind that is a work of fiction. nice to see some information about the burial that reflects just facts
Remember reading and rereading Clan of the Cave Bear, which I think was the first book.
@@amazinggrace5692 clan was in fact first of the 7 books plains was # 4 I find them enjoyable enough that I read them every few years
People are reading entirely too much into the placement of the bodies. The middle body was placed in while there was room to place a body. The other two bodies were placed in from above. They were pretty much rolled into place and were buried how they fell. There is absolutely nothing more to their placement than that. Not everything has lines between the lines.
You, too, are claiming to know why and how they were placed the way they were. But the true answer is - we don't know, and we can't know. No record was left behind explaining it. Some things are unknowable - if that makes you uncomfortable, stay away from scientific topics.
Why the red okre? And all the art and other burial artififacts just to roll the bodies into a pit and allow one to be buried face down?
And being rolled in with a headdress of teeth, all remaining in place?
This was really interesting to me. I love ancient history brought into the present and read a lot of archaeological magazines and just articles online. You made me want to go research this I won't be able to get to Europe and go there but I will look into it and try to find out more. I have I have subscribed to your podcasts and I look forward to learning more this is really cool, thank you!
The mystery of being Human: "The more we change, the more we remain the same".
26,000 years ago, these people were looking for a reason to their existence, and sending a "message in a bottle" into the future, for us to find. "We were here, this is who we were and what we did, for better or worse".
Of course, it's virtually impossible to ascertain one way or the other, but one point I feel has been overlooked by the general archeological society and our narrators, is that it wasn't unusual for groups of people to have slaves from outside, and then treat the slave as one of their own. I'm thinking Egyptians, Alexander the Great, Romans, Vikings etc. And then the "beloved" slave would follow the master into death. Just an idea. These remains appear to have be chromesomelogically connected in some way, ...but...who knows?
My understanding is that slaves only came much later. You could take in an outsider if needed to complete the group but they would have normal status of others. But slaves (unwilling, forced), especially male ones, would be just too risky and expensive in resources to keep. Fights were to the death, or eventually until the enemy was sure to stay away from your affairs.
Thoroughly enjoyed this one, thank you.
Inaccurate about the disease: "X-linked chondrodysplasia punctata 1 is a disorder of cartilage and bone development that occurs almost exclusively in males. Chondrodysplasia punctata is an abnormality that appears on x-rays as spots (stippling) near the ends of bones and in cartilage. In most infants with X-linked chondrodysplasia punctata 1, this stippling is seen in bones of the ankles, toes, and fingers; however, it can also appear in other bones. The stippling generally disappears in early childhood.
Other characteristic features of X-linked chondrodysplasia punctata 1 include short stature and unusually short fingertips and ends of the toes. This condition is also associated with distinctive facial features, particularly a flattened-appearing nose with crescent-shaped nostrils and a flat nasal bridge.
People with X-linked chondrodysplasia punctata 1 typically have normal intelligence and a normal life expectancy. However, some affected individuals have had serious or life-threatening complications including abnormal thickening (stenosis) of the cartilage that makes up the airways, which restricts breathing. Also, abnormalities of spinal bones in the neck can lead to pinching (compression) of the spinal cord, which can cause pain, numbness, and weakness. Other, less common features of X-linked chondrodysplasia punctata 1 include delayed development, hearing loss, vision abnormalities, and heart defects."
I wonder, if it's been considered that perhaps the young man and or even all of the young men were.. buried in an advanced stage of rigor mortis, or even possibly Frozen in part, or completely, prior to burial..? This might explain his peculiar position in the grave..? Seems to me just as likely an explanation as any other..? What do you think..? I would love to know... How off base I am..
Thanks gentlemen..
Love your Channel it's brilliant...
@Michael Terry - I never thought of that. It is totally possible and makes sense. Not proven going on the discussion in the video but definately a possibility.
I thought of those as possibilities, as did several others in the thread.
I wonder if weaving was inspired by the webs that spiders made 😮😊or the nests that some birds make that look like they are weaving in materials or weaving their fingers or weaving plant materials to make sleeping pads. 😂well that’s all I can come up with .😅I wonder if any of these random thoughts could be the inspiration for the cloth that they made into clothes
I cant see the spiders webs but our ape cousins make nests of branches and maybe our ancestors did as well gradually getting better and better? Plus I can remember making daisy chains and plaiting grasses when I was little. It wouldnt take a huge leap for a bright ancient homo sapiens lady to work out she could just add more and more grass to make a cape maybe?
I’ll take a run at it.
Cold climate, winter season, rigor mortis…bodies frozen in death. Necessity of burial. It doesn’t take the witness of too many battlefield photos to understand how bodies are deposited in hasty graves.
What i find more interesting than position of bodies, the meaning of which is anybodys guess, is the presence of shells from Mediterranean. That is a long way across alps. That would suggest a wide spread societies trading and travelling long distances through difficult terrain.
They must have all died at the same time, and it makes sense they were a family. And people cared about them. That was an interesting story.
If their heads/faces were covered in red ochre, then surely when the tissue rotted away, their skulls would have been ivory coloured ? what explanation do the finders give for that ?
How was the burial dated to 26,000 ago?
trust me bro. no but seriously, probably some of the first immigrants from babel
Is it without question they were all three buried at the same time?
I think too much is being made about the arm over the pelvis stuff. It seems people let their imagination run amuck. What I see is a family tragedy. Three family members tragically dying at the same time, and so young at that. Really sad.
Great video my friend Paul X ⚔️⚔️💫💫❤️❤️❤️
So these bodies were laid on a sort of terrace, but the "grave" no more than a "scrape" in the soil? With just branches and twigs over them? I'm assuming animals would have been attracted to this. Could the arm of the guy on the right have been dragged across the central figure's groin? Could a larger animal have rolled the guy on the right over? But this leaves me wondering - if animals large enough to move the bodies are at work - wouldn't the bones be scattered? If not the bones, the artefacts at least? But...if it wasn't disturbed, why not with such poor protection? Or were these grave sites protected from interference? Mind blown.
I'm intrigued as to why the fellow on the right was buried face down.
I think to prevent him coming back. A form of ancestral vampirism. Perhaps somebody in the settlement saw him as a ghost...and then the people in the place toke precautions?
Thanks for a wonderful delivery of info. Great Character Pairing! You paint a Picture and fired my imagination.
I`ve heard about 3 rowed chains of carnivore teeth from somewhere else in very old graves or caves, but i can`t remember right now where that was. Will make contact when i find out.
Very interesting. More photos of the items discussed would have been nice.
Speculation is ALL we have really. I think everyone should tell a story about this burial. Let your imagination fly.❤ loved this discussion. Thanks
I think pre history is much more interesting almost any other
time in our history...
Just my thought...
New sub here hello from Australia well researched and presented indeed.
The fact that these individuals were buried in quality winter clothing and boots suggests that their people were neither poor nor desperate. If they had been, these folk would have been buried in the equivalent of a pine box.
@ 22:10
I notice that too. Some part of me thinks the burials were there to tell a story about the deceased, as much as it was to simply honor the dead.
What I find more fascinating, though, are the portraits from a nearby structure; apparently, one was matched to a woman also found at the site (both had a banged-up left face). I remember reading somewhere that the figure was found with others within a structure, but that could be my memory failing me.
The portraits--and the very creative burials--make me wonder if the burials weren't also memorials, where stories of the dead were told to younger generations? You see similar customs even into the 20th century.
As to the three? Maybe they were very close in life, and when the guy in the middle died, the other two were killed (willingly or not), to help the middle one in the afterlife?
Modern occurrence of chondrodysplasia punctata occurs in about 1 in 100,000 people. It often causes delayed development and most don't live past 10 years old.
Peace. Interesting. Mishap while all three were joyrneying through the woods together? They seemingly perished, essentially, at same time? My heart goes out to their mother(s) and father(s). What a great loss. Peace.
Ir’d be fascinating if someone did a remote viewing to see what they come up with.
Huh?
Yes. I understand remote viewing and I was thinking about that too.
A lot of this was the material that Jean Auel used for her Earthchildren books - fascinating!
Any information/evidence on the cause of death?
The cycle of axial precession spans about 25,771.5 years. Would the weather then be about like it is now?
Very interesting. Hope to get more information soon. BTW note of pronunciation: it's pronounced 'vestonitse'. No 'che' at the end.
They have really good wine down there in south Moravia.
This doesn't strike me as a burial so much as a death scene. It looks like they perhaps starved or were sick and lay down together to die.... hence the somewhat strange aspect of one reaching to touch the other, and another laying face down.
There was also one girl found out, and how about her mtDNA ? was she one of the well known “7 Daughters of Eve” tribe ? ❤
I have seen this protective gesture a few times before. This gesture is not at all unusual for family members.
Once I saw this in South Korea. It was a family of three - a father, an older brother with severe developmental disabilities and a younger brother. The brother who suffered was carried, daily, out to the fields where both the father and the younger brother worked. When it came time to rest, he was carried back to the house - a hut, really - they would all throw themselves unto the earthen floor, and wrap their arms around one another - the brother who suffered in the middle. In other words, he was much loved and protected.
The other one that I can recall is the gesture of one of a set of twins. The father had shaved off his beard, and both babies - sitting up - were frightened and started to howl. One of the twins threw his arm across his brother, in a protective gesture, while still looking at this apparation with their father's voice, yet not his looks.
I would not be surprised by the fact that those three were closely related, how big could ave the tribe be back then? 30 people? 50 people? Given the fact that there were at least 2-3 generations living a the same time, they all could be related to greater or lesser degree
Now to the platform ad whole burial. I know that general area and I would not say that there is need to make grave for three on slope, however slopes are grate place to have camp, or place to spend night, so I would say that the site originally was something like dugout and not a grave. So ten what happened could be that they got caught in bad weather or in early onset of winter or for some other reason they were unable to continue and decided to spend some time there. Maybe it was sudden winter storm, whatever, they had ended in this dugout for some time and they either died of starvation or froze to death. That could as well explain one person lying face down and other two hugging.
The mam lying face down perhaps died first and it was either too creepy to let him lie on his back or maybe, if they were all close together he died partially lying on men in the middle and to be frank nobody wants to sleep when dead lies on him, so he just got from underneath of his brother and the body would be left facing down. I would say that the placing of the hand could be result of many factors, from modern intimate explanations, to simple physics. But certainly I would not rule out that those two had some very intimate relationship. We do not know whether it was frowned upon or encouraged as it could have been a survival strategy for the tribe given the harsh conditions they lived in.
Then they would be discovered after god knows how many days and decision would be taken to bury them on the spot as transport would not be possible (decay, terrain, snow...), practical or for some other reason. God knows, maybe they lowed that place and to me it makes complete sense to be buried somewhere you loved it (it is only modern society that denies us those things). So they would make all the rituals and then burn that whole thing down with them. I would say that such event would even put the whole tribe in danger as it has lost three young men in the same time.
But I do not have explanation for red ochre and for the mask.
Someone else mentioned that the use of red ochre is very common around the world. Among its properties is it being anti-bacterial, so slowing down decay (and odors).
Ppl in an unheated society weren’t shy about sharing beds just for warmth.
I seem to see it as the middle older disabled brother had a protector in his half brother with the head dress on his left. What stumps me is the brother on the right that is faced down. Perhaps he defamed or set him up to be killed and the reason for the disgraced face down. Could the red ochre be an sign of trust and honor of a person
🥺
The face down on the right isn’t a good thing. I realize this is fairly current but burying face down is so they can’t find their way up out of the grave. And that was from that very area.
The hand being over the pelvis doesn't necessarily mean something sexual. As you said towards the end of the video it was't uncommon for this group of people to adorn head and pelvis with red ochre and as for "zinging through the ages" well for the reason you said. They are more profoundly personal which gives us more info on them. Understanding who these people were. Understanding who our ancestors were 26,000 years ago IS INDEED THE PULL, the excitement. It's the human connection to ourselves. I think it's frustrating knowing there are traditions they held that we will NEVER be able to fully understand but being so close to the possibility of having a window into their life is REALLY enticing for many.
Thank you. Well thought out and well stated. I stumbled on this video years after it was published, posted. The video left me wondering if this particular burial was very different from others found at this site. Was the face down position of the guy on the right unique to this particular burial? Were other burial sites cut into a slope? Were all of the other graves found with only one body?
The narrators created a wonderful presentation that contains lots of fascinating details. Clearly there were some notes used, but to me they appeared to do the video pretty much off the cuff. Their passion for the subject and their depth of knowledge really hooked me. After listening to this I was left wishing for a video twice as long. They did mention that the site is quite large and it their discussion did mention other graves.
I suppose if the video was twice as long the end result for me would be twice as many unanswered questions, maybe unanswerable. How amazing to find that these people, this culture existed 26,000 years ago. Clearly I’m no scholar, just a guy gathering fascinating information from RUclips. Wasn’t 26,000 years ago the time frame of the Younger Dryas?
Oh dear, I did not think myself ever as an impatient person, but Boy I would love to see the pictures early on in the vid and maybe all you can find flipping through the screen and staying on there for a while. I see two men talking and talking ..I wonder why that is?
Thank you. really enjoy listening to you to talk . Very cool
Everything sounds just like the burials here in the US. I'll try to get this correct. The stone 'maids/fertility' statues I read about were used as a sort of welcome or warning symbol outside of a home. Lady gets stuck outside the door in the dirt and says they are not home, wards off bad spirits, welcome weary travelers, offer a safe haven....while they are gone. I'm probably wrong on the name. Katchina doll is what my brain is saying, but it's old. ;)
Its possible they were injured around the same time after some accident during hunting, a drowning etc etc, wounds could be fatal, infections can take hold quickly and not leave traces, I suggest they all died within days or weeks of each other after a shared disaster. Someone suggested and I agree that one might have developed rigor-mortise and been buried in that position with arms extended, next to his friends. The other mystery is the placement of ocher was so deliberate it must have been significant, on the head and pelvis, may signify an issue suffered was possibly a plea to ancestors for help in the afterlife or some form of protection ?, we can only imagine. The figure lying face down could have indeed also be significant of status or purpose, I guess the body could have been rolled down into the grave later after finally passing from injuries or sickness to join his friends, ending up face down, possibly why they lacked Ocher from the initial burial. My suggestion is that all members of a small tribal community would have a task or purpose in the group, sacred or practical, and therefore clothing would represent that position, the teeth headdress possibly represented that purpose, best hunter, shaman or dentist ..lol... Although young they would all have been essential adult members of this tribe so their close deaths would have been devastating overall. We forget how close these groupings were, how intimate, personal and cohesive, in ways our modern social structures are not, so any imagined behavior we create for them must be considered outside our contemporary social views. They may have been a triad of skill serving a specific role together in a hunt, a search or exploration which caused their mutual injury. I find my imagination takes flight but our imagination can bring us closer to making them real people again and not just skeletons in a ditch, as long as we give proper justice to their world, humanity, hearts and minds. After all their burial positions might have been simply an artistic composition with no other meaning than to make them look pretty in death.
Could there have been trade in those days? Mammoth tusks & meat for textiles from elsewhere or was the weather more temperate with warm summers and bitterly cold winters? Where did the textiles come from and what were they made of?