I have no doubt that Maclom McDowell lit up when he signed your copy of WC3. I got John Ryhs-Davis to sign my copy of WC3 at the Calgary Comic Expo, he was signing LotR and Indiana Jones items and seemed bored. Then my WC3 PC box was placed in front of him to sign and he shouted "This is a blast from the past! Who's is this?" I stepped forward and we chatted about his role in Wing Commander as Paladin and as the voice of Tharakth, and how I play the Kilrathi Saga at least once a year. He was excited to see it and personalized his autograph (I paid for standard autograph cause the personalized autograph was more than I had on me), He signed it 'To Devon, John Rhys-Davis aka Paladin'. Its my goal to get Mark Hamill and Malcolm Mcdowell to sign it.
I'm a little jealous, for real. But it warms my heart to hear a story like this and that these guys remember their roles in our childhood gaming history.
@@jwagner4050 Best of all: I don't think a single one of them is "ashamed" for their work on 'some sci fi video game'. PS @devonburdeyney8555: You're making me want to try and get Ginger Lynn's (Rachel Coriolis) autograph at an Adult Entertainment Convention.
I had a similar experience when Tom Wilson was giving autographs after one of his comedy stand up performances in San Jose California. Of course most of his fans were asking him to sign Back to the Future items, so when I came up to him with a 'Hell's Archers' Arrow squadron shirt that had been given to the cast of WC3 (mine belonged to an art director or something) his face lit up and he said "Holy shit is that a Wing Commander shirt?! I've got one just like it". I told him to me he'll always be the Maniac! I also had my hot blonde big breasted then-girlfriend hit on him and give him her number which he politely accepted, but he unfortunately never called her (that I'm aware of lol). Good times.
I've always heard that if you're going to intrduce yourself to a famous person, you should reference one of the more obscure things they've done. I always figured if I met him I'd say, "Dude, I loved you as Maniac!"
I suppose Baron Jukaga was based on the real life Stephen Jurika who warned the US govt of the Japanese Zero and other capabilities but was laughed off. The name and the plot is too familiar for it to be coincidence.
God, I really miss the days of Wing Commander. They should reboot this franchise at the point where the Terran-Kilrathi war start and have all these great stories made in to games. It would be great space drama.
@@THAC0MANIC More or less but with some liberties in respect to the original games. I don't think anyone who'd played the originals want a direct remaster of the originals as they are familiar with the story and missions already. And for new players the whole structure might be too dated. So much more free hand to shoehorn in great stories like this one and make it a standalone game.
@@KapiteinKrentebol remasterd games are a bit of an odd ball you risk alinating fans if you diverate to much but risk being stale or not fixing enough just copy pasting the game.
I grew up playing the Wing Commander games. I even still have the PS1 copy of 3 and 4 on the shelf. Always suprised me a franchise such as this was allowed to fade away.
Mac's Lore: If I do Wing Commander again, I might do the events of . Me: Oh, please, PLEASE do the events of . I finally cracked open that novel in 2017, and I just couldn't put it down.
In my opinion WC 5 (Prophecy) ruined the WC universe as the Ori did with Stargate, by creating a new OP emeny race that techincally didn't exist before in the lore. A game about the Kilrathi Civil War after the destruction of Kilrah would have been a better option story-wise.
If you ever get a chance, GOG has the original design document for Prophecy (and probably on the WCCIC too), and going by it they left a lot of stuff out. Including what seemed to be better ways to tie it in to the rest of the series. But yeah, now that you mention it, a Kilrathi Civil War would have been a more fascinating thing as it could've also acted as a deep dive into their culture.
Yes, while I liked it as a game the story was a bit of a lame another aliens threaten humanity variety. The Kilrathi were a much more interesting enemy where the bugs or whatever they're called were just a faceless foe.
@@MacsLore I might be wrong but I felt The Nephilim were The Wing Commander Franchise's attempt to bring 'The Shivans' in the universe--IE an implacable, unstoppable, incomprehensible foe....or that, it was just a ill thought out 'cash grab'.
This analysis touched my heart, because I grew up with wing commander games as a small kid and I am one of those who defended the movie when it came out. This video bring me a lot of nostalgia and yes it was interesting to hear the novels of Tolwyn. And when it comes to the question of would the novel Tolwyn do what he did in WC4, I answer maybe yes because I always thought that Tolwyn went crazy after the war, he has defended earth all his life so when it was over he became what he always fought against. But that’s just a guess. Anyway thank you for this video
My pleasure. Also, I've been rereading False Colors recently (Still havn't finished it tho), and I too have been seeing more how Tolwyn could start doing what he did in WC4. The Behemoth Disaster ruined his reputation to the point where he was actually put on trial for it, he'd seen how the civilian government nearly ended Humanity, and then he has a shadowy conspiracy group keeping an eye on him and Kevin. It's enough to drive anyone a little crazy and lose their way.
@@MacsLore that’s very interesting, that does explain why did what he did in WC4, also in the ending when he spoke to much, Paladin (John Rhys Davis) touch Tolwyns shoulder almost sympathetic and say softly “I think we heard enough “ almost as he knew what Tolwyn went through. I have subscribed to your channel and looking forward for more videos 😊👍🏻👍🏻
@@JohanActorOfficial Thanks for that. And that's actually a good point you brought up that I missed about Paladin seeming to be sympathetic to Tolwyn at the end, as he realized that something broke inside of him somewhere along the way.
@@MacsLore you’re welcome 😊 and I am glad I found your channel 👍🏻 when I played the game I always wondered why Paladin looked sympathetic to Tolwyn but now it makes more sense thanks to the novel. Keep up the good work and looking forward to see more 👍🏻👍🏻
Yeah the Price of Freedom makes it clear that it was seeing the government screw up and accept the false armistice leading to the death of billions that made him believe the Confederation was doomed if it faced an enemy stronger then the Kilrathi. And in the novels by the time the false armistice occurred there were concerns among the Kilrathi that another species which they had fought skirmishes with in the distant past but was believed to be far more advanced then them had finished a war with an unknown power and might turn their focus to the Kilrathi. Concerns that had become known to Tolwyn at some point before The Price of Freedom. Though in the end even Tolwyn realized his plan was far more terrible then it needed to be and that he should have just kept building up the Black Lance in secret rather then launch the plan that led to the events of the fourth game.
I Remember Fleet Action, it was a really good Book, I agree, Tolwyn was done dirty in the end by the writers. The Irony of Wing Commander being that the position they found themselves in WC Prophecy was exactly the situation Tolwyn was worried would eventually happen in WC4
Fleet Action is my third favorite of the Wing COmmander novels following the novelization of The Price of Freedom and Action STations (I always wished they had made some sequels to Action Stations covering the pre-games war in more detail.)
Was fond of these games as a kid! The first fighter/space sim games I ever played. I nearly broke my joystick one time when I threw it into the wall when I lost a mission (actuallY I think I did break it). As someone who never read the novels (or knew they were there) you did an amazing job with writing this!
Thanks! The novels (for the most part) are fine sources of expanding the universe. I can't recommend enough trying to get a hold of a copy of End Run or Fleet Action. Also, you might not have been the only one who ended up breaking a joystick in a space sim when you were a kid. *cough*
Having watched playthroughs of some of the fan games, they look very well like they've maintained the raw self loathing required to play them. I've not seen a copy of fleet action in decent shape available for a reasonable price unfortunately or I would.
My guy. You have found a new fan. I've loved the Wing Commander universe since I could use a joystick...I would sit out on the couch and watch my dad play when I was like 4, and ended up playing through all of them one after another. This is FANTASTIC work and wonderfully done. I'm enjoying it thoroughly, and will be moving through the rest of your playlists...basically all my childhood games in one spot. I would love to see more WC lore as told by you. You've got a great voice and the presentation is the best I've seen yet. Keep it up! :)
I have been thinking about using other people for voices, as my own guys IRL have been nudging me every so often to bring them into a video and join in on this RUclips racquet I've created, lol. But it has been something I've been thinking about more with my firmer grasp of 3d Animation, so I will consider it if I can ever come up with something that would be good to bring other people in on. Thanks.
I'd been looking forward to this... and then managed to completely miss it for a month. *Sigh* Anyway, this small series of yours made for an excellent watch; fine visuals and quality storytelling. (You've got an enviable narrator's voice as well.)
I remember this book well. Great to hear about it and have the story retold after so many years. It was a great lightbulb moment when you read that tge Terrans were winning because of the power (or lack thereof) of logistics. It explains nicely why the Confederation is in the dire straights it is in by WC3.
The first time I finished WC4, I couldn't quite believe that Tolwyn was capable of all that either. It seemed unrealistically outside of what the character could do. But perhaps, reading the books, remembering the wc5 (a game that I still believe EA created to destroy the WC saga), maybe, and only maybe, Tolwyn remembered how badly humanity had done with the demobilization of the armistice and how almost that destroys it and perhaps, along with some access he might have had to texts about the Kilrhati prophecy about the darkness that would come, seeing Tolwyn as humanity not only dissolved its navies but even divided itself among itself, perhaps he became obsessed with having to do something to prepare humanity to face that dark time to come. After the books, although the events of wc4, if they seem more difficult for Tolwyn's personality, perhaps he decided to assume the role of villain to avoid by all means reaching that point of helplessness ... Pride was not lacking and if he believes that he can save humanity, at the cost of brutal measures (which in one way or another, sooner or later, would have come in other ways, in an internal war between humanity) and his own eternal damnation, it is also not surprising. And if we add to all this what we "learned" in the WC film, about the pilgrims and how Tolwyn and others were friends of some of them, perhaps, if he was aware that humans had an immense potential to develop in their "DNA" but a great enemy in themselves when they divide into groups that end up confronting other groups. The film, in some things there is no way to "stick" it to the rest,, but it does add more weight to Tolwyn's carrying more examples of how humanity, without anything to unite it, can become its worst enemy. And we don't know exactly what events occurred in confederation between the WC4 and WC5 events... but it is possible that Tolwyn's "villainies" had had any long-term positive effect on humanity, because of course, it does not seem that it demobilized its forces and ended its armament programs, but generated a new generation of fighters and carriers, including the Midway (a carrier that I myself hated I do not know if because of a poorly designed game or because it seemed immensely fragile, I still have the belief that with two Vesubius class, that war conato would have been much easier to solve 😁). Tolwyn, savior and at the same time, "enemy" of humanity... honestly, if I try to imagine being in his skin, with his experiences and experiences ... I understand that what he did at WC4 is a genocide, a barbarity... but I imagine his desperation in initially trying to stop, redirect, or try to solve the dissolution into factions of humanity, only to go failing, seeing how humanity threw itself into the fixture of its own self-destruction, while he watched as the clock, he continued inexorably towards the appearance of the next enemy, one who was even so deeply rooted in the Kilrhati as to be in their most sacred "scriptures." A time that if it came, would come when he and possibly his entire generation and even the next generation of war veterans was no longer there, catching humanity off guard leading it to its end. And that Tolwyn if he seems to me the man capable of leaving everything prepared for the survival of humanity, even if it was at the expense of himself and even of being the villain of the story ... although evidently, he preferred to be recognized as the foresight and savior of humanity. How would we have reacted to seeing that all our attempts to maintain the unity of humanity and keep it ready are falling apart like sugar in a glass of water and our time on top comes to an inexorable end? There's one thing I still disagree with at WC4 and that's that Tolwyn committed suicide before he was shot. Because if something is not and was not Tolwyn was a coward... over time, the only explanation for that, is that he was really aware of all the evils to which he had lowered himself and wanted to deny himself, an "honorable" death shot, increasing his image as a "villain", in an attempt to at least that, suppose something good for humanity.
I never got to read Fleet Action. Interesting to know Hunter's fate, as I figured he was killed at some point between Freedom Flight and Heart of the Tiger. And the Battle of Terra, of course, well... epic.
You should definitely fix that. It covers one of the biggest events in the Wing Commander universe which is nuts considering it wasn't even a part of the games.
Sooo…the Killrathi are like furry Klingons? That makes more sense now. I’m a Trekkie and I also love Star Wars so I’d love to be able to understand this. 2:56 Is that Kharak I see?
You do these videos very well, I hope you do more. I loved these books. From what I remember of them, I tend to agree with you about Novel-Tolwyn vs Game-Tolwyn; it did seem like novel-Tolwyn would not have fallen to the degree that game-Tolywn did in WCIV.
Well, I just found your video series on Wing Commander and I must command you for your talent. Your channel should be a lot more popular in my opinion. You are a talented narrator. Any video on the Privateer series lore/stories in your future?
Did The Concordia not try to engage the Hakaga fleet with her giant cannon as shown in Wing Commander 2? I thought it could destroy any capital ship with a single hit but I didn't notice any mention of it here?
From what I'm remembering I dont think the Phase Transit Cannon was ever mentioned in the novel, at all. None of the other novels ever seemed to mention it as I recall, so I dont think there was ever a canon reason why the PTC wasn't used.
If I remember correctly(this is memory from years ago) in one of the Special Operations expansion packs for WC2 the Concordia was in a big battle and was using the PTC cannon again and again. This was causing severe stress to the ship and almost crippled it since the cannon formed the entire keel of the ship. I might be wrong but the cannon was no longer in use soon after.
@Mike Yeah according to canon, the PTC was considered a failure. It was made from tech discovered in the wreckage of the Sivar Dreadnought.. It never really worked right.. though this was just a footnote in the manual. I think they got rid of it because the engine for WC3 couldn't draw the far more detailed model of the Concordia than the victory.
I think they wanted to show that Tolwyn snapped after so many years at war and with how close the Terrans came to losing the war during the battle for Earth
@@JasonSmith-gn9zj Not just the Battle of Earth, but the Confed fleet was almost entirely spent in Wing Commander 3 and would have been helpless when the Hvar'kann-class dreadnaughts came online (as seen in the bad ending). They were down to throwing desperate (so desperate that the Behemoth wasn't even finished being built) super weapons at Kilra to survive and were lucky that the temblor bomb worked otherwise that would have been the end of humanity. I agree that I can see how his pragmatism and desperation ensure humanity's survival lead to Wing Commander IV but he was maybe portrayed a little too much of a mustache twirling villain in the game's depiction (none of that being McDowell's fault as he's always amazing).
Kilrathi caiming to be proud warrior species they when full knife and daggers they claimet to loath at the first sight of them geting beaten in battle.
I agree with the Admiral but considering despite everything we won by a fluke and overall lost the war when we were winning the loss after loss and never wanting to happen again takes toll and with the war over I don't think he believe truely believe over as some case wasn't One thing the Confed should not have rush back to peace and slowly done so but they seem to him make the same mistakes It wasn't war Admiral it was peace Admiral as been fighting non stop when over or after his ace in the hole lost no way out that never again mind set got him
showing (wrong) scenes and charakters from wc4 while talking about the kilrathi war all the time is really throwing me off. I cant follow this very good. its very confusing. maybe I played too much wc3 and4 but the actual context of the pictures and scenes keeps ploping into my mind and conflicts with the stuff that is narated. especialy when you showed dekker and paladin while talking about another general waaayyy too confusing.
0:45 same mistake that New Republic did in Star Wars universe 😂 In cost destruction of Hosnian Prime at hand of Remnant of Galactic Empire superweapon 😂 The end of new republic as General Hux said 😂
![KAYTRANADA - Witchy (feat. Childish Gambino) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jGK3YVmGZ3Y/mqdefault.jpg)
I have no doubt that Maclom McDowell lit up when he signed your copy of WC3. I got John Ryhs-Davis to sign my copy of WC3 at the Calgary Comic Expo, he was signing LotR and Indiana Jones items and seemed bored. Then my WC3 PC box was placed in front of him to sign and he shouted "This is a blast from the past! Who's is this?" I stepped forward and we chatted about his role in Wing Commander as Paladin and as the voice of Tharakth, and how I play the Kilrathi Saga at least once a year. He was excited to see it and personalized his autograph (I paid for standard autograph cause the personalized autograph was more than I had on me), He signed it 'To Devon, John Rhys-Davis aka Paladin'. Its my goal to get Mark Hamill and Malcolm Mcdowell to sign it.
I'm a little jealous, for real. But it warms my heart to hear a story like this and that these guys remember their roles in our childhood gaming history.
@@jwagner4050 Best of all: I don't think a single one of them is "ashamed" for their work on 'some sci fi video game'.
PS @devonburdeyney8555: You're making me want to try and get Ginger Lynn's (Rachel Coriolis) autograph at an Adult Entertainment Convention.
Better hurry, he's getting up there.
Hell, Tom Wilson once said how excited his nephews were when they learned he was playing The Maniac.
I had a similar experience when Tom Wilson was giving autographs after one of his comedy stand up performances in San Jose California. Of course most of his fans were asking him to sign Back to the Future items, so when I came up to him with a 'Hell's Archers' Arrow squadron shirt that had been given to the cast of WC3 (mine belonged to an art director or something) his face lit up and he said "Holy shit is that a Wing Commander shirt?! I've got one just like it". I told him to me he'll always be the Maniac! I also had my hot blonde big breasted then-girlfriend hit on him and give him her number which he politely accepted, but he unfortunately never called her (that I'm aware of lol). Good times.
Maniac may have been a Space Pig, but by all accounts Tom Wilson is a class act. I should get him to sign my Premiere Edition too.
I've always heard that if you're going to intrduce yourself to a famous person, you should reference one of the more obscure things they've done. I always figured if I met him I'd say, "Dude, I loved you as Maniac!"
i'd buy a remake of wing commander 1,2,3 and 4 in a heartbeat
I suppose Baron Jukaga was based on the real life Stephen Jurika who warned the US govt of the Japanese Zero and other capabilities but was laughed off. The name and the plot is too familiar for it to be coincidence.
God, I really miss the days of Wing Commander.
They should reboot this franchise at the point where the Terran-Kilrathi war start and have all these great stories made in to games. It would be great space drama.
so basicly reboot the games into modern day versions of themselfs / make them into remasterd versions?
@@THAC0MANIC More or less but with some liberties in respect to the original games. I don't think anyone who'd played the originals want a direct remaster of the originals as they are familiar with the story and missions already. And for new players the whole structure might be too dated. So much more free hand to shoehorn in great stories like this one and make it a standalone game.
@@KapiteinKrentebol remasterd games are a bit of an odd ball you risk alinating fans if you diverate to much but risk being stale or not fixing enough just copy pasting the game.
I grew up playing the Wing Commander games. I even still have the PS1 copy of 3 and 4 on the shelf. Always suprised me a franchise such as this was allowed to fade away.
Demiliterizing while not insisting on inspectors, that's not soldiering.
Was... Was that a Sharpe reference?
Mac's Lore: If I do Wing Commander again, I might do the events of .
Me: Oh, please, PLEASE do the events of . I finally cracked open that novel in 2017, and I just couldn't put it down.
In my opinion WC 5 (Prophecy) ruined the WC universe as the Ori did with Stargate, by creating a new OP emeny race that techincally didn't exist before in the lore. A game about the Kilrathi Civil War after the destruction of Kilrah would have been a better option story-wise.
If you ever get a chance, GOG has the original design document for Prophecy (and probably on the WCCIC too), and going by it they left a lot of stuff out. Including what seemed to be better ways to tie it in to the rest of the series. But yeah, now that you mention it, a Kilrathi Civil War would have been a more fascinating thing as it could've also acted as a deep dive into their culture.
Yes, while I liked it as a game the story was a bit of a lame another aliens threaten humanity variety.
The Kilrathi were a much more interesting enemy where the bugs or whatever they're called were just a faceless foe.
@@MacsLore I might be wrong but I felt The Nephilim were The Wing Commander Franchise's attempt to bring 'The Shivans' in the universe--IE an implacable, unstoppable, incomprehensible foe....or that, it was just a ill thought out 'cash grab'.
Slightly modified Mantu? They were referenced in.... which book
Yeah I agree with you completely. When the Ori scenario came about I had the same feeling as I did with the introduction of the Nephilim.
This video series has too few views. I loved the wing commander series as a kid especially the first three.
Thank you for doing this Lore series. Wing Commander was part of my childhood. You are doing a very wonderful job. Thank you.
I'm new to the WC lore, so I want to say thank you for breaking this all down so well.
This analysis touched my heart, because I grew up with wing commander games as a small kid and I am one of those who defended the movie when it came out. This video bring me a lot of nostalgia and yes it was interesting to hear the novels of Tolwyn. And when it comes to the question of would the novel Tolwyn do what he did in WC4, I answer maybe yes because I always thought that Tolwyn went crazy after the war, he has defended earth all his life so when it was over he became what he always fought against. But that’s just a guess. Anyway thank you for this video
My pleasure. Also, I've been rereading False Colors recently (Still havn't finished it tho), and I too have been seeing more how Tolwyn could start doing what he did in WC4. The Behemoth Disaster ruined his reputation to the point where he was actually put on trial for it, he'd seen how the civilian government nearly ended Humanity, and then he has a shadowy conspiracy group keeping an eye on him and Kevin. It's enough to drive anyone a little crazy and lose their way.
@@MacsLore that’s very interesting, that does explain why did what he did in WC4, also in the ending when he spoke to much, Paladin (John Rhys Davis) touch Tolwyns shoulder almost sympathetic and say softly “I think we heard enough “ almost as he knew what Tolwyn went through. I have subscribed to your channel and looking forward for more videos 😊👍🏻👍🏻
@@JohanActorOfficial Thanks for that. And that's actually a good point you brought up that I missed about Paladin seeming to be sympathetic to Tolwyn at the end, as he realized that something broke inside of him somewhere along the way.
@@MacsLore you’re welcome 😊 and I am glad I found your channel 👍🏻 when I played the game I always wondered why Paladin looked sympathetic to Tolwyn but now it makes more sense thanks to the novel. Keep up the good work and looking forward to see more 👍🏻👍🏻
Yeah the Price of Freedom makes it clear that it was seeing the government screw up and accept the false armistice leading to the death of billions that made him believe the Confederation was doomed if it faced an enemy stronger then the Kilrathi.
And in the novels by the time the false armistice occurred there were concerns among the Kilrathi that another species which they had fought skirmishes with in the distant past but was believed to be far more advanced then them had finished a war with an unknown power and might turn their focus to the Kilrathi. Concerns that had become known to Tolwyn at some point before The Price of Freedom.
Though in the end even Tolwyn realized his plan was far more terrible then it needed to be and that he should have just kept building up the Black Lance in secret rather then launch the plan that led to the events of the fourth game.
I Remember Fleet Action, it was a really good Book, I agree, Tolwyn was done dirty in the end by the writers. The Irony of Wing Commander being that the position they found themselves in WC Prophecy was exactly the situation Tolwyn was worried would eventually happen in WC4
Fleet Action is my third favorite of the Wing COmmander novels following the novelization of The Price of Freedom and Action STations (I always wished they had made some sequels to Action Stations covering the pre-games war in more detail.)
Was fond of these games as a kid! The first fighter/space sim games I ever played. I nearly broke my joystick one time when I threw it into the wall when I lost a mission (actuallY I think I did break it). As someone who never read the novels (or knew they were there) you did an amazing job with writing this!
Thanks! The novels (for the most part) are fine sources of expanding the universe. I can't recommend enough trying to get a hold of a copy of End Run or Fleet Action.
Also, you might not have been the only one who ended up breaking a joystick in a space sim when you were a kid. *cough*
Having watched playthroughs of some of the fan games, they look very well like they've maintained the raw self loathing required to play them. I've not seen a copy of fleet action in decent shape available for a reasonable price unfortunately or I would.
God bless Jason Bernard epic actor
My guy. You have found a new fan. I've loved the Wing Commander universe since I could use a joystick...I would sit out on the couch and watch my dad play when I was like 4, and ended up playing through all of them one after another. This is FANTASTIC work and wonderfully done. I'm enjoying it thoroughly, and will be moving through the rest of your playlists...basically all my childhood games in one spot.
I would love to see more WC lore as told by you. You've got a great voice and the presentation is the best I've seen yet. Keep it up! :)
After watching this I gotta read the books again!
I always thought that the Kilrathi were lying to Jamesen about her son still living in order to blackmail her.
I'd adore more of this. If you need any help with a vo cast, me and my crew would be honored to help tell these tales. :)
I have been thinking about using other people for voices, as my own guys IRL have been nudging me every so often to bring them into a video and join in on this RUclips racquet I've created, lol. But it has been something I've been thinking about more with my firmer grasp of 3d Animation, so I will consider it if I can ever come up with something that would be good to bring other people in on. Thanks.
@@MacsLore Looking forward to it! Keep up this stellar stuff.
I'm down too.
I'd been looking forward to this... and then managed to completely miss it for a month. *Sigh* Anyway, this small series of yours made for an excellent watch; fine visuals and quality storytelling. (You've got an enviable narrator's voice as well.)
You're making me blush. I'm glad you enjoy it.
I really wish one of the Wing Commander games had covered the Battle of Earth
I remember this book well. Great to hear about it and have the story retold after so many years. It was a great lightbulb moment when you read that tge Terrans were winning because of the power (or lack thereof) of logistics. It explains nicely why the Confederation is in the dire straights it is in by WC3.
The first time I finished WC4, I couldn't quite believe that Tolwyn was capable of all that either. It seemed unrealistically outside of what the character could do.
But perhaps, reading the books, remembering the wc5 (a game that I still believe EA created to destroy the WC saga), maybe, and only maybe, Tolwyn remembered how badly humanity had done with the demobilization of the armistice and how almost that destroys it and perhaps, along with some access he might have had to texts about the Kilrhati prophecy about the darkness that would come, seeing Tolwyn as humanity not only dissolved its navies but even divided itself among itself, perhaps he became obsessed with having to do something to prepare humanity to face that dark time to come.
After the books, although the events of wc4, if they seem more difficult for Tolwyn's personality, perhaps he decided to assume the role of villain to avoid by all means reaching that point of helplessness ... Pride was not lacking and if he believes that he can save humanity, at the cost of brutal measures (which in one way or another, sooner or later, would have come in other ways, in an internal war between humanity) and his own eternal damnation, it is also not surprising.
And if we add to all this what we "learned" in the WC film, about the pilgrims and how Tolwyn and others were friends of some of them, perhaps, if he was aware that humans had an immense potential to develop in their "DNA" but a great enemy in themselves when they divide into groups that end up confronting other groups. The film, in some things there is no way to "stick" it to the rest,, but it does add more weight to Tolwyn's carrying more examples of how humanity, without anything to unite it, can become its worst enemy.
And we don't know exactly what events occurred in confederation between the WC4 and WC5 events... but it is possible that Tolwyn's "villainies" had had any long-term positive effect on humanity, because of course, it does not seem that it demobilized its forces and ended its armament programs, but generated a new generation of fighters and carriers, including the Midway (a carrier that I myself hated I do not know if because of a poorly designed game or because it seemed immensely fragile, I still have the belief that with two Vesubius class, that war conato would have been much easier to solve 😁).
Tolwyn, savior and at the same time, "enemy" of humanity... honestly, if I try to imagine being in his skin, with his experiences and experiences ... I understand that what he did at WC4 is a genocide, a barbarity... but I imagine his desperation in initially trying to stop, redirect, or try to solve the dissolution into factions of humanity, only to go failing, seeing how humanity threw itself into the fixture of its own self-destruction, while he watched as the clock, he continued inexorably towards the appearance of the next enemy, one who was even so deeply rooted in the Kilrhati as to be in their most sacred "scriptures." A time that if it came, would come when he and possibly his entire generation and even the next generation of war veterans was no longer there, catching humanity off guard leading it to its end.
And that Tolwyn if he seems to me the man capable of leaving everything prepared for the survival of humanity, even if it was at the expense of himself and even of being the villain of the story ... although evidently, he preferred to be recognized as the foresight and savior of humanity.
How would we have reacted to seeing that all our attempts to maintain the unity of humanity and keep it ready are falling apart like sugar in a glass of water and our time on top comes to an inexorable end?
There's one thing I still disagree with at WC4 and that's that Tolwyn committed suicide before he was shot. Because if something is not and was not Tolwyn was a coward... over time, the only explanation for that, is that he was really aware of all the evils to which he had lowered himself and wanted to deny himself, an "honorable" death shot, increasing his image as a "villain", in an attempt to at least that, suppose something good for humanity.
Such a good series.
Fantastic 😊
great video
Like it
Hope you will make some more :)
I never got to read Fleet Action. Interesting to know Hunter's fate, as I figured he was killed at some point between Freedom Flight and Heart of the Tiger. And the Battle of Terra, of course, well... epic.
Yeah, the Battle of Terra and Fleet Action in general just worked so well as a prelude to Wing Commander 3 and a bridge to WC2.
You should definitely fix that. It covers one of the biggest events in the Wing Commander universe which is nuts considering it wasn't even a part of the games.
I love this video/story
Sooo…the Killrathi are like furry Klingons? That makes more sense now. I’m a Trekkie and I also love Star Wars so I’d love to be able to understand this.
2:56 Is that Kharak I see?
Just found your channel, plowed through your homeworld videos, these WC videos are excellent too!
You do these videos very well, I hope you do more. I loved these books. From what I remember of them, I tend to agree with you about Novel-Tolwyn vs Game-Tolwyn; it did seem like novel-Tolwyn would not have fallen to the degree that game-Tolywn did in WCIV.
Thank you for this.
Amazing
Well, I just found your video series on Wing Commander and I must command you for your talent. Your channel should be a lot more popular in my opinion. You are a talented narrator. Any video on the Privateer series lore/stories in your future?
I bet a planetary defense Ion Cannon could deal with the Kilrathi cruisers attacking Earth.
You missed one great detail which is the a young female marine was the one that set off the bomb when Grecko died
Did The Concordia not try to engage the Hakaga fleet with her giant cannon as shown in Wing Commander 2? I thought it could destroy any capital ship with a single hit but I didn't notice any mention of it here?
From what I'm remembering I dont think the Phase Transit Cannon was ever mentioned in the novel, at all. None of the other novels ever seemed to mention it as I recall, so I dont think there was ever a canon reason why the PTC wasn't used.
If I remember correctly(this is memory from years ago) in one of the Special Operations expansion packs for WC2 the Concordia was in a big battle and was using the PTC cannon again and again. This was causing severe stress to the ship and almost crippled it since the cannon formed the entire keel of the ship. I might be wrong but the cannon was no longer in use soon after.
@Mike Yeah according to canon, the PTC was considered a failure. It was made from tech discovered in the wreckage of the Sivar Dreadnought.. It never really worked right.. though this was just a footnote in the manual. I think they got rid of it because the engine for WC3 couldn't draw the far more detailed model of the Concordia than the victory.
4:40 Does that involve a certain broken water desalination facility at the AF object? ^^
They even mentioned borrowing that ploy from World War II in the novel.
I doubt a Hakaga could stand up to a Viscount Star defender (or any large scale capital ship) from Star Wars Legends.
I also didn't like the direction they took Tolwyn in the part 4. Very out of character.
I think they wanted to show that Tolwyn snapped after so many years at war and with how close the Terrans came to losing the war during the battle for Earth
@@JasonSmith-gn9zj Not just the Battle of Earth, but the Confed fleet was almost entirely spent in Wing Commander 3 and would have been helpless when the Hvar'kann-class dreadnaughts came online (as seen in the bad ending). They were down to throwing desperate (so desperate that the Behemoth wasn't even finished being built) super weapons at Kilra to survive and were lucky that the temblor bomb worked otherwise that would have been the end of humanity.
I agree that I can see how his pragmatism and desperation ensure humanity's survival lead to Wing Commander IV but he was maybe portrayed a little too much of a mustache twirling villain in the game's depiction (none of that being McDowell's fault as he's always amazing).
Want peace maintain strong defensive an offensive abilities
have you not seen the Standoff mod for Prophecy?
Yeah, I've used some of it's promo imagery in the video.
What happened to the traitor-Senator? I don't recall hearing what her fate was?
As far as I know, neither the games or the novels ever mention her again after Fleet Action. So her fate is pretty much up in the air.
Senator Yendor?
Kilrathi caiming to be proud warrior species they when full knife and daggers they claimet to loath at the first sight of them geting beaten in battle.
I agree with the Admiral but considering despite everything we won by a fluke and overall lost the war when we were winning the loss after loss and never wanting to happen again takes toll and with the war over I don't think he believe truely believe over as some case wasn't
One thing the Confed should not have rush back to peace and slowly done so but they seem to him make the same mistakes
It wasn't war Admiral it was peace Admiral as been fighting non stop when over or after his ace in the hole lost no way out that never again mind set got him
showing (wrong) scenes and charakters from wc4 while talking about the kilrathi war all the time is really throwing me off. I cant follow this very good. its very confusing. maybe I played too much wc3 and4 but the actual context of the pictures and scenes keeps ploping into my mind and conflicts with the stuff that is narated. especialy when you showed dekker and paladin while talking about another general waaayyy too confusing.
I was very disappointed with WC 4 Tolwyn
You're not the only one thats for sure.
0:45 same mistake that New Republic did in Star Wars universe 😂
In cost destruction of Hosnian Prime at hand of Remnant of Galactic Empire superweapon 😂
The end of new republic as General Hux said 😂
Awesome 👌