A fantastic comparison video. I've read a few comments from people recommending people to avoid using an APS-C crop on a full frame sensor because of lower light and image quality. It's clear these are opinions from individuals who have never bothered to give real world tests as you have. Bravo 👏
That was quite useful. I just purchased the S5ii and the only thing I was actually concerned about was rolling shutter. Knowing that using the APS-C mode will help/reduce that makes me feel a lot better. Cheers 🙏🏽
Wow...What a useful video! I recently purchased an S5IIx (I'll get my hands on it this week!!!) and wanted to understand the different possibilities and formats. And I couldn't find a better video on this topic. Thank you so much. New follower here!
Thank you for this! As someone who loves using prime instead of zoom for still. I want to see the real world difference between APS-C modes and FF . I think this mode is really useful for a very fast pace events such as wedding photography!
@@charlesn since a couple of years here is a big hype with sony, aps-c but also 35mm. Fans with a great wallet prefers Leica, normal hobby photographers choices are Canon or Nikon. The germans meanwhile are lazy so it is hard to find good answers in the internet, social medias ....
Seems like the ex-teleconversion mode in GH5 or PIXEL/PIXEL mode GH6 (with that 1.5X crop). I love this feature because it's almost like bringing two prime lens when you only have one lens, and when using a zoom lens, you have extended the reach. This is such a killer feature.
I got the S5II earlier this year, recently been wondering about the first question especially because of an anamorphic adapter I use that works best in APS-C mode, I was worried it was losing resolution but thanks for the tests because it looks like it isn't being degraded like I was afraid of!
And in addition, the APS-C Mode improof the continius AF remarkable an my S5 mark I ! He is match faster then in the FF-Modus. The Test was made with the Lumix S 50mm F1.8 and 28-200mm …
Thanks for the tests, Charles. I sometimes use a Canon EF-S 10-18mm lens (aps-c) on my S5 in 4k 60p. It isn't great, but the results are better than shooting 1080p 60p on a 16-35mm lens.
I did some tests using the Sigma 18-35 F1.8 and wholeheartedly agree, it looked great. I left it out because I didn’t want to lean too far away from the videos initial premise of leaving in the same lens. But you can definitely get some great shots with APS-C lenses with S5 MkI!
Not only is this info useful, it also sounds like a lot of fun to use. Starting with, say 2 lenses, one can have 4 different "focal lengths". That's awesome!
WOW! Thanks for that video - that is perfect if you are filming 4k, you can expand your 24-105 to a 36 to 157. Nice! Works on the S5II :) (Just chose a 4k mode and the option is no longer grayed out)
@@jayclas4023 if it’s a full frame glass then APSC mode would also be optional. I don’t use anamorphics on the S5 yet, but looking through the settings and manual (even with the black magic video assist) it looks like anamorphic is only available in APSC mode anyways. So a full frame anamorphic lens wouldn’t add any benefit
Re-reading my comments as I'm making part 2 of this video and I think I'm wrong with initial assumption of 'no benefits' of full frame anamorphic. The S5 won't desqueeze in full frame, but you will still be able to desequeeze the image in a monitor via HDMI, so I think there is still an advantage of potentially getting an anamorphic lens with better light capabilities (lower T stop), but...full frame lenses anamorphics are so expensive in comparison so definitely weigh the advantages based on your budget.
Wow..thanks for the truly interesting info-- and especially for the examples.. I bought the S5 because I thought a real GH5 successor was never going to come-- and I have never regretted it. Now I'm thinking of buying the Sigma 1.4 trio (At least the 56) for the S5 if it has this level of performance ,,and make better use of the Sigma EF adapter and the 18-35 Art lens too.
I admit my lack of experience on micro 4/3 cameras, but I've heard great things about the GH5 & 6. The Sigma lenses are worth every penny, can't say enough good for the quality per $. I use the 18-35 Art lens all the time, especially now that I finished these tests; totally worth it. I originally picked up the Sigma Art 18-35 F1.8 for the 6k Pro (seems to be the standard).
I recently got a 9mm apsc lens for my s5ii specifically to be able to retain the ultra wide field of view while shooting 4k60 for real estate style shoots. It works great and only cost like 300$
Really enjoyed this video Charles, I have myself shot in apsc on the lumix s5 with great results for video along with great photos also.... It works really well indeed...
awesome video. I was totally afraid of using the Apsc sensor thinking it was a digital zoom and the possibility of losing quality. I have a sigma 16-28mm now i can extend my reach at 42mm. would be decent for portrait shots
Assuming you mean photography here. APSC crop (on a full frame body such as the S5) doesn't really work well for photographs unless you have a very high megapixel camera. You're cropping into the sensor, so image resolution will be significantly reduced. Fine for social media posts, but the results wouldn't be printable and won't leave any scope for cropping in editing software.
Actually for s1h using APSC mode in 1080p give much sharper image and its look like 4k. When i compare 4k with 1080p in super 35 mode i cannot tell difference in same shots.
Ok but without aps-c mode there are two ways of getting the "same" image in full frame mode. Crop or put the camera closer. I believe if you just put the camera closer it will be more sharp right?
If you mean cropping the image in post, then yes. Those two would be your other options, but cropping loses resolution while your other suggestion of moving the camera closer definitely works. It was one of the methods I was trying to skip so I didn’t have to keep repositioning the camera and still get a 4K image using the APSC mode instead.
Hi Charles, I am looking to purchase the Lumix S5, my only concern is the EVF? I am a spectacle wearer! Is it alright for people that wear glasses to see clearly with this EVF? Thank you Charles
Thanks for the question. I also wear glasses (contacts most days). I just tried using the S5 EVF with glasses and personally don’t see any issues. Is this something you’ve encountered with other cameras? If so, what kind of issues were they? The S5 quickly switches over, all of the screen is in view and easily adjustable if it’s out of focus (the small ring on the left).
@@charlesn Hi again Charles, no! no issues, I have just been checking out this camera over the past couple of day! watching all videos on it! and picking up all the info I am able to! and heard the EVF was not good?!?! so thanks for your help! and thank you for your reply also Charles
how does the Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 + Adapter compare to the Sigma 24-70mm 2.8 in APS-C mode? Do I get more light in and more depth of field with the 18-35mm?
This is a great question. This requires whatever lenses you are comparing to figure out the T-stop value based on the manufacturer’s efficiency rating for each lens. I need to convert a bunch of my lenses for my next film so I’m going to make a short video talking about this.
Hello ! Can you still use 4K open gate in apsc mode or not ? This could be game changer for lense choice. I also heard that the autofocus is no longer a probleme in crop mode wich make apsc lenses really interresting
Open gate mode uses the entire width of the sensor on the S5 (C4k). When you use APSC mode you’re automatically not shooting in open gate mode since APSC is a 1.5x crop. The autofocus might have a little better performance but it’s sadly still old tech in the S5, which is why the S5ii and S5iix have brand new sensors to fix it.
I'm really interested in getting a S5 and using it in APS-C mode for filmmaking, but I wonder what that means for anamorphic shooting. Is 4:3 mode still an option as well as anamorphic stabilization/de-squeeze? What anamorphic resolutions are available in APS-C mode?
@@entropicnic6892 good question. 4:3 isn’t the greatest aspect ratio for anamorphic for sure, but it works perfectly for 1.33, which is a popular ratio for the Sirui set; what I started with last year. If you film in APSC and use the full frame sensor for 4K that should give you all the real estate necessary on the sensor for an APS anamorphic (even up to 2x), you’ll just do a crop I post to the proper size you want. To use IBIS for anamorphic (a super power in the Lumix series), just make sure to select the right anamorphic setting (or close) and you should be good to go. Otherwise just turn off IBIS if it keeps giving you any unwanted warping edge effects. I think all of the same anamorphic desqueeze options (and Image Stabilizer) are available for APSC mode.
Interesting video, I've been wondering for a while if anyone makes a speed booster which will fit or maybe easily adapted but now I know the picture quality doesn't degrade it makes it even more interesting?
@@andersistbesser for my last photoshoot I forgot that I have set the aspect ration to 16:9 from 4:3 and the files I got out of the camera were 17MP. I was not happy at all. :D
@@iammz81 the raw files contain the entire sensor area regardless of crop or aspect ratio. Some raw developers hide this and you need to set some options to see the entire sensor area.
@@MichaelSchagen I loaded the raw2 files into Photoshop and the aspect ratio was the same, 16:9, instantly something felt off.. :D would be good to know how to see the whole sensor readout. Do you know it?
took way too long to get to this but...it will be addressed in my next video that will be posted next week. I'll be using the S5iix for comparison in all of the tests.
Exactly. It’s just like using it on any other camera with a crop sensor (APSC, super 35, etc). You’ll use the crop of that sensor to multiply against the lens. So your 30 mm APSC lens will be a 45 mm on the S5. If you have an adapter to manually select ‘FULL’ for full frame then you’ll just see a massive vignette around the image.
It's sadly the limitations of the diameter of the lens itself, so the focal point of the image on the sensor will be smaller than full frame (APSC) because of the distance of the lens to sensor.@@McMurphy13
Thanks for the question, I only used a full frame lens for these tests. But for low light performance, an APSC lens should perform better because the light is focused on the APSC square, whereas a full frame lens focuses the light on the entire sensor, spreading the light across the larger surface. So an F2 for APSC should have more light than an F2 on a full frame since F values are relative per lens.
@@martiniustollin I 100% agree that F2 on full frame lens is the same as F2 on an APSC lens. watch Gerald Undone’s video about lens sizes and sensors. His explanation will help you understand why this is true. Specifically using a full frame lens on an APSC crop, that’s the question. F2 is true for the full frame, but the light isn’t focused on the APSC portion of the sensor, which seems to be his question. There will less than the total focus (the light from F2) on the APSC portion. I’ll double check and make sure I’m not off, but that’s how I understood his name explanations.
It’s a good question. I didn’t see anything explain over sampling rates, just that the crop modes maintain their quality in the various modes. 1080 had the biggest crop in pixel in pixel mode but that makes sense since it is taking the physical real estate of 1080 on a 6k sensor.
@@charlesn I was just wondering about regular 1080p aps-c mode quality without pixel crop because s5ii retains Phase detect AF in 1080 crop even in 50/60p...
@@charlesnI was just wondering is image quality in 1080p aps-c better than 1080p FF, no digital zoom, pixel in pixel etc...just regular 1080p 50p FF vs APS-C crop. Just wondering because some of Us would use aps-c lenses like sigma 18-50mm and shoot 4k aps-c and 1080 aps-c. Another reason for shooting 1080p aps-c is that S5ii doesn't loose that PDAF in this mode. 😅
@@MTKnockOut I do. I have the S5iix. It shows the same notes in the manual that there is no loss, but it would be nice to know if it truly is the same. I’ll put it in the cue to validate the S5iix 4K crop mode. Thanks for the feedback.
@@charlesn I saw one video finally, and it seemed perfectly fine but it was a text clarity test, just run and gun demo I do music video and vlogs, hopefully cinematic movies Using post production slow mo on 60 fps rocks for dog clips and music videos I do prefer a crop as I like distance from my subject, and I can keep the f at 3.5 on a 20-60 with a little more punch in I really only use 35 and 50mm, but the F will always close down on cheaper lenses You Rock!
But why is the light received the same as full frame when it has a lower pixel area? It could very well be internally calibrated to be the same but the noise should be larger.
The test I showed wasn't full proof but was relying on the camera's sensor for the answer while filming the white board. The sensor was seeing the same amount of brightness for the scene, but APS-C lenses focus light to a smaller size of the sensor, which is why I kept a full frame lens for all of the tests. That being said though...this brings in the advantage of using APS-C lenses, which are cheaper for quality and value (Sigma Art lenses) compared to their full frame counter parts. As far as the noise, I didn't notice any extra noise in the shot using crop mode, but...I will add this to the list to verify a good comparison in part 2.
For video it is fine if you do not mind loosing some light. For 4K60 I have an APSC L mount 7.5mm for 4k 60 APS-C crop and I have a full frame 11mm To get almost the same shot at 30 or 24fps full frame. I also have a full frame 16-28 I use mostly for APS Crop mode. Lastly I crop on the 60mm from he kit lens sometimes. In the end I use Full frame 80% of the time and use APS-C crop when I need to
I actually had that same question myself and show a very short test of it in the very end of this video. I didn’t talk about it, but I did not see a loss of any bokeh when it was cropped.
When you shoot in S35 (compared to FF / 135) you are using a lens 1.5x as wide for the same angle of view (around 40 degrees). So from the same camera position, a 35mm on S35 will give you the same angle of view, compression and perspective distortion as the 50mm on FF /135. The only difference is depth of field, as you are using a wider lens on S35. There is a 1.5x stop difference between S35 and FF / 135 (when using equivalent focal lengths). So say you want to match the depth of field a 50mm F4 lens gives on FF / 135, on the S35 camera, you need to open the lens up 1.5 stops, to 2.8 - but in doing so, the S35 camera will gain 1.5 stops of exposure (as you've opened up the lens to match DOF). If you use a 50mm lens on both FF / 135 and S35 (and don't move the camera) the bokeh is the same, only angle of view has changed. If you move the S35 camera back to match the framing, you have changed a major perimeter - and so of course the bokeh will change.
Thanks! The S5ii and S5iix's sensors have the new built in autofocus hardware, but all of the S5 variations are 6k sensors. Some say the S5 has better color, but I can't tell a difference personally.
Thanks for the great question Danilo. I'll investigate that more in depth in the next video on this subject. I had some other points I wanted to add that I left out as well, so I'll make sure to add this in the mix so we can do some pixel peeping on comparisons at different ISO levels of APS mode vs full frame.
Great question. I didn't compare full frame vs APSC mode for ISO as I think the processing would be the same. Here is a video where I share the differences through all of the ISO settings for the S5 that might help - ruclips.net/video/17OLtspXemM/видео.htmlsi=8hbh5Gsh5AAXaNNp
In the S5, I haven’t seen a large range in effect from good to bad with the autofocus speeds for acquisition (Camera > Focus > AF Custom Setting > AF Speed / AF Sensitivity). It’s more of a ‘play with the settings until you get close’ kind of thing. The S5ii has superior AF and definitely redeems the system for those that need it.
@@charlesn .. I think it distracts from you informing viewers of your thoughts, opinion and views .. I find music inappropriate for passing on learning ..Not agreeing with your viewpoint and your taste in music would make things double bad for viewers ...
@@manoftheroad55 appreciate the feedback, but I disagree as you are the first to comment about this as an issue. You know what they say about opinions. Do your thing, I’ll do mine.
hi, to me the test would be a lot more relevant if instead of using the same lens you choosed a lens which gave the same zoom factor.. exposing the full frame to have the same cadre of the cropped one.. its logical the image is better on the portion cropped, but the full frame image is not limited to that crop, it has to code all of the image not just a part of it... yes the image is better in the cropped one before encoding than in cropping in a full frame image after it has been encoded but that's not really the point.. is you have to compare sharpness you must not zoom to have the objetcs at the same size... you have to compare a same % of the image..
The test using the same lens was to demonstrate how to remove a lens change to zoom in and maintain the same full 4k resolution since it is a 6k sensor. There were some surprises when cropping in that I really enjoyed (faster read speeds for less rolling shutter) and I definitely agree that another fun test would be comparing full frame lenses equivalent to the crop in the prior lens with a crop to verify the quality. This test proved that there is no zoom, it's just a crop factor and the same resolution is present when cropped, which is great. Zooming in on the images in this video just shows the pixel density of the same section of the image was present (pixel density increased for that area). Hope this helps and thanks for some ideas to kick around for a follow on video.
I didn’t add any sharpening beyond the native settings and It’s been awhile since I did the edit but I think I only added a simple color correction. Hopefully RUclips’s compression didn’t add anything weird.
Probably the best test I've seen of the crop modes on the s5.
Thanks! I was super surprised when I first dove into these tests. I didn’t think the crop would have any advantages at first. I was definitely wrong.
A fantastic comparison video. I've read a few comments from people recommending people to avoid using an APS-C crop on a full frame sensor because of lower light and image quality. It's clear these are opinions from individuals who have never bothered to give real world tests as you have. Bravo 👏
That was quite useful. I just purchased the S5ii and the only thing I was actually concerned about was rolling shutter. Knowing that using the APS-C mode will help/reduce that makes me feel a lot better. Cheers 🙏🏽
Yes, I do it all the time specially when shooting run&gun with prime lens. I used in my Sony and now on my S5II, have it mapped to an Fn button
Brilliant. I need to map this to an Fn button too since I'm using it a lot more than initially expected.
Wow...What a useful video! I recently purchased an S5IIx (I'll get my hands on it this week!!!) and wanted to understand the different possibilities and formats. And I couldn't find a better video on this topic. Thank you so much. New follower here!
Great test. That's exactly how I use the S5. In my mind it's a S35 4.1K RAW monster with a full frame mode if I need it.
Thank you for this! As someone who loves using prime instead of zoom for still. I want to see the real world difference between APS-C modes and FF . I think this mode is really useful for a very fast pace events such as wedding photography!
Thank you for this Video. In my home- country germany there are not so much photographers with Lumix cameras. It helps me to see your comments...
Thanks for watching! What cameras are more common in Germany?
@@charlesn since a couple of years here is a big hype with sony, aps-c but also 35mm. Fans with a great wallet prefers Leica, normal hobby photographers choices are Canon or Nikon. The germans meanwhile are lazy so it is hard to find good answers in the internet, social medias ....
This is so good to know, thanks man! Made me hold on to my Sigma 18-35
The Sigma is a beast...glad you had a good reason to hold onto it!
Seems like the ex-teleconversion mode in GH5 or PIXEL/PIXEL mode GH6 (with that 1.5X crop). I love this feature because it's almost like bringing two prime lens when you only have one lens, and when using a zoom lens, you have extended the reach. This is such a killer feature.
I got the S5II earlier this year, recently been wondering about the first question especially because of an anamorphic adapter I use that works best in APS-C mode, I was worried it was losing resolution but thanks for the tests because it looks like it isn't being degraded like I was afraid of!
I was skeptical too, but it makes sense. It’s a 6k sensor so getting true 4K resolution from the APSC mode fits their claims.
And in addition, the APS-C Mode improof the continius AF remarkable an my S5 mark I ! He is match faster then in the FF-Modus. The Test was made with the Lumix S 50mm F1.8 and 28-200mm …
Thanks for the tests, Charles. I sometimes use a Canon EF-S 10-18mm lens (aps-c) on my S5 in 4k 60p. It isn't great, but the results are better than shooting 1080p 60p on a 16-35mm lens.
great video... just got my s5 2x yesterday... was going to avoid apsc altogether... but you've changed my mind! Subbed!
The 2x is amazing. Congrats!
A RUclipsr from Canada used the Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-F4 on the Panasonic S5 Mark 1 in crop mode and it was beautiful
I did some tests using the Sigma 18-35 F1.8 and wholeheartedly agree, it looked great. I left it out because I didn’t want to lean too far away from the videos initial premise of leaving in the same lens. But you can definitely get some great shots with APS-C lenses with S5 MkI!
@@charlesn I intend to do the same with the Panasonic S1H hopefully I can get a good conditioned used one.
I have a lot of good luck buying used cameras. The S1H is the goat, definitely enjoy that amazing camera!
Not only is this info useful, it also sounds like a lot of fun to use. Starting with, say 2 lenses, one can have 4 different "focal lengths". That's awesome!
WOW! Thanks for that video - that is perfect if you are filming 4k, you can expand your 24-105 to a 36 to 157. Nice! Works on the S5II :) (Just chose a 4k mode and the option is no longer grayed out)
This makes using the Sirui APSC Anamorphic lenses make even more sense. Thanks for sharing.
So true!
@@charlesn isn’t the full frame versions of the Sirui anamorphic lenses still used in APSC mode?
@@jayclas4023 if it’s a full frame glass then APSC mode would also be optional. I don’t use anamorphics on the S5 yet, but looking through the settings and manual (even with the black magic video assist) it looks like anamorphic is only available in APSC mode anyways. So a full frame anamorphic lens wouldn’t add any benefit
Re-reading my comments as I'm making part 2 of this video and I think I'm wrong with initial assumption of 'no benefits' of full frame anamorphic. The S5 won't desqueeze in full frame, but you will still be able to desequeeze the image in a monitor via HDMI, so I think there is still an advantage of potentially getting an anamorphic lens with better light capabilities (lower T stop), but...full frame lenses anamorphics are so expensive in comparison so definitely weigh the advantages based on your budget.
@@charlesn the S5 does de squeeze in camera. No monitor needed. ;)
Wow..thanks for the truly interesting info-- and especially for the examples.. I bought the S5 because I thought a real GH5 successor was never going to come-- and I have never regretted it. Now I'm thinking of buying the Sigma 1.4 trio (At least the 56) for the S5 if it has this level of performance ,,and make better use of the Sigma EF adapter and the 18-35 Art lens too.
I admit my lack of experience on micro 4/3 cameras, but I've heard great things about the GH5 & 6. The Sigma lenses are worth every penny, can't say enough good for the quality per $. I use the 18-35 Art lens all the time, especially now that I finished these tests; totally worth it. I originally picked up the Sigma Art 18-35 F1.8 for the 6k Pro (seems to be the standard).
Thanks a lot for this very clear and interesting vidéo : definitly opened my mind about crop modes.
Can't wait to try this. Thanks for sharing!
I recently got a 9mm apsc lens for my s5ii specifically to be able to retain the ultra wide field of view while shooting 4k60 for real estate style shoots. It works great and only cost like 300$
which lensi s this?
which lens
Lens name please
The lens is the Venus Laowa 9mm f2.8
differences are small. I love this feature. Can use my Sigma 24-70 as 36-105 and
still have my f2.8!
Really enjoyed this video Charles, I have myself shot in apsc on the lumix s5 with great results for video along with great photos also.... It works really well indeed...
awesome video. I was totally afraid of using the Apsc sensor thinking it was a digital zoom and the possibility of losing quality. I have a sigma 16-28mm now i can extend my reach at 42mm. would be decent for portrait shots
Assuming you mean photography here. APSC crop (on a full frame body such as the S5) doesn't really work well for photographs unless you have a very high megapixel camera. You're cropping into the sensor, so image resolution will be significantly reduced. Fine for social media posts, but the results wouldn't be printable and won't leave any scope for cropping in editing software.
excellent this put my mind at rest as I am using the S1 generally in apsc mode 4k 60
Actually for s1h using APSC mode in 1080p give much sharper image and its look like 4k. When i compare 4k with 1080p in super 35 mode i cannot tell difference in same shots.
Cheers from Honduras!!! Nice coffee bag
We’re friends with Carlos at SanRafael
@@charlesn that’s so nice to hear!
Ok but without aps-c mode there are two ways of getting the "same" image in full frame mode. Crop or put the camera closer. I believe if you just put the camera closer it will be more sharp right?
If you mean cropping the image in post, then yes. Those two would be your other options, but cropping loses resolution while your other suggestion of moving the camera closer definitely works. It was one of the methods I was trying to skip so I didn’t have to keep repositioning the camera and still get a 4K image using the APSC mode instead.
Hi Charles, I am looking to purchase the Lumix S5, my only concern is the EVF? I am a spectacle wearer! Is it alright for people that wear glasses to see clearly with this EVF? Thank you Charles
Thanks for the question. I also wear glasses (contacts most days). I just tried using the S5 EVF with glasses and personally don’t see any issues. Is this something you’ve encountered with other cameras? If so, what kind of issues were they? The S5 quickly switches over, all of the screen is in view and easily adjustable if it’s out of focus (the small ring on the left).
@@charlesn Hi again Charles, no! no issues, I have just been checking out this camera over the past couple of day! watching all videos on it! and picking up all the info I am able to! and heard the EVF was not good?!?! so thanks for your help! and thank you for your reply also Charles
amazing video. Thanks and best regards from Brazil.
Thank you for doing this amazing test 🏯
how does the Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 + Adapter compare to the Sigma 24-70mm 2.8 in APS-C mode? Do I get more light in and more depth of field with the 18-35mm?
This is a great question. This requires whatever lenses you are comparing to figure out the T-stop value based on the manufacturer’s efficiency rating for each lens. I need to convert a bunch of my lenses for my next film so I’m going to make a short video talking about this.
@@charlesn great, happy to hear that. Waiting for the Video 😊👍
Hello ! Can you still use 4K open gate in apsc mode or not ? This could be game changer for lense choice. I also heard that the autofocus is no longer a probleme in crop mode wich make apsc lenses really interresting
Open gate mode uses the entire width of the sensor on the S5 (C4k). When you use APSC mode you’re automatically not shooting in open gate mode since APSC is a 1.5x crop. The autofocus might have a little better performance but it’s sadly still old tech in the S5, which is why the S5ii and S5iix have brand new sensors to fix it.
I'm really interested in getting a S5 and using it in APS-C mode for filmmaking, but I wonder what that means for anamorphic shooting. Is 4:3 mode still an option as well as anamorphic stabilization/de-squeeze? What anamorphic resolutions are available in APS-C mode?
@@entropicnic6892 good question. 4:3 isn’t the greatest aspect ratio for anamorphic for sure, but it works perfectly for 1.33, which is a popular ratio for the Sirui set; what I started with last year. If you film in APSC and use the full frame sensor for 4K that should give you all the real estate necessary on the sensor for an APS anamorphic (even up to 2x), you’ll just do a crop I post to the proper size you want. To use IBIS for anamorphic (a super power in the Lumix series), just make sure to select the right anamorphic setting (or close) and you should be good to go. Otherwise just turn off IBIS if it keeps giving you any unwanted warping edge effects. I think all of the same anamorphic desqueeze options (and Image Stabilizer) are available for APSC mode.
Awesome tests! thanks
Interesting video, I've been wondering for a while if anyone makes a speed booster which will fit or maybe easily adapted but now I know the picture quality doesn't degrade it makes it even more interesting?
It would open up the possibility of using cheaper, high quality APS-C lenses with more light for sure. I think it's a good idea.
I wonder if you can use the APS-C mode on the S5 for photos as well?
Yes you can.The raw contains the entire frame, the jpeg will contain the aps-c crop.
Yes But it means a 24mp photo will be reduced to 12mp. Its enough for social media tough
@@andersistbesser for my last photoshoot I forgot that I have set the aspect ration to 16:9 from 4:3 and the files I got out of the camera were 17MP. I was not happy at all. :D
@@iammz81 the raw files contain the entire sensor area regardless of crop or aspect ratio. Some raw developers hide this and you need to set some options to see the entire sensor area.
@@MichaelSchagen I loaded the raw2 files into Photoshop and the aspect ratio was the same, 16:9, instantly something felt off.. :D
would be good to know how to see the whole sensor readout. Do you know it?
Thank you for the informative and very surprising video! Do you know if the same principles apply to S5 ii as well?
I’ll take a peak in the manuals but I’m going to guess they would. Messing the S5II and the S5IIX tonight…
@@charlesn Awesome! Let me know if you find out something!
took way too long to get to this but...it will be addressed in my next video that will be posted next week. I'll be using the S5iix for comparison in all of the tests.
So when I use apsc lens on LUMIX s5 it’s always cropped in? Then 30 mm are not 30 mm?
Exactly. It’s just like using it on any other camera with a crop sensor (APSC, super 35, etc). You’ll use the crop of that sensor to multiply against the lens. So your 30 mm APSC lens will be a 45 mm on the S5. If you have an adapter to manually select ‘FULL’ for full frame then you’ll just see a massive vignette around the image.
@@charlesn I heard the crop is only on a apc camera not on a full frame .. but thanks ☺️
@@charlesn also in Video Mode ?
It's sadly the limitations of the diameter of the lens itself, so the focal point of the image on the sensor will be smaller than full frame (APSC) because of the distance of the lens to sensor.@@McMurphy13
Yeah, even in video mode an APSC lens will have a crop on the full frame sensor.@@McMurphy13
Hi! Did you use a full frame lens in the comparison even for the APSC crop? Do you know does the noise performance compare if you use an APSC lens?
Thanks for the question, I only used a full frame lens for these tests. But for low light performance, an APSC lens should perform better because the light is focused on the APSC square, whereas a full frame lens focuses the light on the entire sensor, spreading the light across the larger surface. So an F2 for APSC should have more light than an F2 on a full frame since F values are relative per lens.
Thanks!!!
@@martiniustollin I 100% agree that F2 on full frame lens is the same as F2 on an APSC lens. watch Gerald Undone’s video about lens sizes and sensors. His explanation will help you understand why this is true. Specifically using a full frame lens on an APSC crop, that’s the question. F2 is true for the full frame, but the light isn’t focused on the APSC portion of the sensor, which seems to be his question. There will less than the total focus (the light from F2) on the APSC portion. I’ll double check and make sure I’m not off, but that’s how I understood his name explanations.
What about sharpness test in 1080? Is 1080 aps-c more detailed than 1080 Full Frame like on some Sony cameras?
It’s a good question. I didn’t see anything explain over sampling rates, just that the crop modes maintain their quality in the various modes. 1080 had the biggest crop in pixel in pixel mode but that makes sense since it is taking the physical real estate of 1080 on a 6k sensor.
@@charlesn I was just wondering about regular 1080p aps-c mode quality without pixel crop because s5ii retains Phase detect AF in 1080 crop even in 50/60p...
Can you maybe test 1080p aps-c and compare it with full frame?
@@dinkogroznica8594 there are a few comparisons with full frame 1080 and APSC 1080 at 4:30. What kind of comparison are you looking for?
@@charlesnI was just wondering is image quality in 1080p aps-c better than 1080p FF, no digital zoom, pixel in pixel etc...just regular 1080p 50p FF vs APS-C crop. Just wondering because some of Us would use aps-c lenses like sigma 18-50mm and shoot 4k aps-c and 1080 aps-c. Another reason for shooting 1080p aps-c is that S5ii doesn't loose that PDAF in this mode. 😅
do you have the newer models by chance to test this with?
@@MTKnockOut I do. I have the S5iix. It shows the same notes in the manual that there is no loss, but it would be nice to know if it truly is the same. I’ll put it in the cue to validate the S5iix 4K crop mode. Thanks for the feedback.
@@charlesn I saw one video finally, and it seemed perfectly fine but it was a text clarity test, just run and gun demo
I do music video and vlogs, hopefully cinematic movies
Using post production slow mo on 60 fps rocks for dog clips and music videos
I do prefer a crop as I like distance from my subject, and I can keep the f at 3.5 on a 20-60 with a little more punch in
I really only use 35 and 50mm, but the F will always close down on cheaper lenses
You Rock!
But why is the light received the same as full frame when it has a lower pixel area? It could very well be internally calibrated to be the same but the noise should be larger.
The test I showed wasn't full proof but was relying on the camera's sensor for the answer while filming the white board. The sensor was seeing the same amount of brightness for the scene, but APS-C lenses focus light to a smaller size of the sensor, which is why I kept a full frame lens for all of the tests. That being said though...this brings in the advantage of using APS-C lenses, which are cheaper for quality and value (Sigma Art lenses) compared to their full frame counter parts. As far as the noise, I didn't notice any extra noise in the shot using crop mode, but...I will add this to the list to verify a good comparison in part 2.
For video it is fine if you do not mind loosing some light. For 4K60 I have an APSC L mount 7.5mm for 4k 60 APS-C crop and I have a full frame 11mm To get almost the same shot at 30 or 24fps full frame. I also have a full frame 16-28 I use mostly for APS Crop mode. Lastly I crop on the 60mm from he kit lens sometimes. In the end I use Full frame 80% of the time and use APS-C crop when I need to
Is it possible to shot on apsc mode at 24 and 30fps?
@@kostistau yes.
Do you loose Bokeh when you crop in or does it keep the full frame Bokeh?
I actually had that same question myself and show a very short test of it in the very end of this video. I didn’t talk about it, but I did not see a loss of any bokeh when it was cropped.
When you shoot in S35 (compared to FF / 135) you are using a lens 1.5x as wide for the same angle of view (around 40 degrees).
So from the same camera position, a 35mm on S35 will give you the same angle of view, compression and perspective distortion as the 50mm on FF /135.
The only difference is depth of field, as you are using a wider lens on S35.
There is a 1.5x stop difference between S35 and FF / 135 (when using equivalent focal lengths).
So say you want to match the depth of field a 50mm F4 lens gives on FF / 135, on the S35 camera, you need to open the lens up 1.5 stops, to 2.8 - but in doing so, the S35 camera will gain 1.5 stops of exposure (as you've opened up the lens to match DOF).
If you use a 50mm lens on both FF / 135 and S35 (and don't move the camera) the bokeh is the same, only angle of view has changed. If you move the S35 camera back to match the framing, you have changed a major perimeter - and so of course the bokeh will change.
Dope video, so the S5 has a different sensor than the s52
Thanks! The S5ii and S5iix's sensors have the new built in autofocus hardware, but all of the S5 variations are 6k sensors. Some say the S5 has better color, but I can't tell a difference personally.
Great video, thanks!
And what about iso noise?
Thanks for the great question Danilo. I'll investigate that more in depth in the next video on this subject. I had some other points I wanted to add that I left out as well, so I'll make sure to add this in the mix so we can do some pixel peeping on comparisons at different ISO levels of APS mode vs full frame.
And for the noise at high ISO?
Great question. I didn't compare full frame vs APSC mode for ISO as I think the processing would be the same. Here is a video where I share the differences through all of the ISO settings for the S5 that might help - ruclips.net/video/17OLtspXemM/видео.htmlsi=8hbh5Gsh5AAXaNNp
Are there any benefits to auto focus speeds/acquisition?
In the S5, I haven’t seen a large range in effect from good to bad with the autofocus speeds for acquisition (Camera > Focus > AF Custom Setting > AF Speed / AF Sensitivity). It’s more of a ‘play with the settings until you get close’ kind of thing. The S5ii has superior AF and definitely redeems the system for those that need it.
Why background music added to a tutorial video..
I’ve gone back and forth between music and no music. Some days I like to add it, others I don’t.
@@charlesn .. I think it distracts from you informing viewers of your thoughts, opinion and views .. I find music inappropriate for passing on learning ..Not agreeing with your viewpoint and your taste in music would make things double bad for viewers ...
@@manoftheroad55 appreciate the feedback, but I disagree as you are the first to comment about this as an issue. You know what they say about opinions. Do your thing, I’ll do mine.
You get a sub from me for the decent espresso machine!
Thanks! It’s definitely a magical machine!
hi, to me the test would be a lot more relevant if instead of using the same lens you choosed a lens which gave the same zoom factor.. exposing the full frame to have the same cadre of the cropped one.. its logical the image is better on the portion cropped, but the full frame image is not limited to that crop, it has to code all of the image not just a part of it... yes the image is better in the cropped one before encoding than in cropping in a full frame image after it has been encoded but that's not really the point.. is you have to compare sharpness you must not zoom to have the objetcs at the same size... you have to compare a same % of the image..
The test using the same lens was to demonstrate how to remove a lens change to zoom in and maintain the same full 4k resolution since it is a 6k sensor. There were some surprises when cropping in that I really enjoyed (faster read speeds for less rolling shutter) and I definitely agree that another fun test would be comparing full frame lenses equivalent to the crop in the prior lens with a crop to verify the quality. This test proved that there is no zoom, it's just a crop factor and the same resolution is present when cropped, which is great. Zooming in on the images in this video just shows the pixel density of the same section of the image was present (pixel density increased for that area). Hope this helps and thanks for some ideas to kick around for a follow on video.
😀😍🤩😘💛🙏
Is your face? Or you put the Bruce Willis face?
@@TheBrainHacker888 lol, all me.
The APSC MODE on the s5 looks horrible, the lines and detail look like they are digitally sharpened or something ...i cant describe exactly
I didn’t add any sharpening beyond the native settings and It’s been awhile since I did the edit but I think I only added a simple color correction. Hopefully RUclips’s compression didn’t add anything weird.
@@charlesn no no, I was referring on my S5.
@@cezar_visual_artist oh wow. Gotcha. Are you in .mov mode?
@@charlesnyes. Does it have any influence?
It looks like an aliasing effect type of thing
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