WotC Stealth Censors "Problematic" Words in the Core Books on DnD Beyond
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- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2024
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...I am not replacing "civilisation" with "home base" ...how tragically American that sounds
Like most things in life, this is really about power, access, and control. We're quibbling about the issues they introduce, but the issues aren't the issues for them, the issue is control.
Agreed. If WOTC really hired sensitivity readers back in 2020, then how did the 2022 rerelease of Spelljammer, written by Christ Perkins, include space monkey people slaves?
Skip to 17:30 to get to the first word: Savage
From latin barbărus, and greek, bárbaros, Barbarian, is a very interesting word. Even to understand the sense of superiority of a civilization. And, as i am Italian i can say to all out there, you are barbabians too me because you can't spoke my language and ofc you don't have my habits. Long time ago, "barbarian" were a sinonimous of "stranger", those who lived outside the border of the empire. Greeks doesn't last so long than Romans, and as italian i feel more related to Romans. (But as Sardinian, i can spoke from an island that were never full conquered by anyone, and part of the land is called "Barbagia", land of the barbarians. So, i am a barbarian too for those who live in the continent.
One thing that is common in Italy as we studied latin (mostly) and greek (a few of us), it's etymology. With that you can understand what words really mean and the roots they belong from. It's part of the civility to change and build up better habits and even shape the language as it's a tool to communicate and relate with people, but here things can't change deleting words that means something since 2000 thousands years. In my culture, a barbarian will always be the same, and it's not something that can obfend, it just underscore that we have different culture. Trust me you can't be italian. And that's not because we are better, as we can't be american, and that's not because you are better. But as the def of the word, you are barbarian to us, as nothern europe's people, as people from Africa and so on because 1) they doesn't speak our language 2) they are strangers.
And, what if a barbarian came and live in the roman empire, or what if some barbarian kingdom were conquered by Romans? they became romans! no more "barbarian" just roman, BECAUSE: civilian, is a status of "civitas" that means "citizenship".
I can go on and show you how the language belongs from latin, and removing words that are connected with other words it's just pure ignorance that only barbarians can have (because they don't speak our language, they don't know the roots of the language they are using). Removing words, as part of the cancel culture, it's just ignorance, as Italian i can say you should study history to avid that the same mistaken are made again. Our memory is short and the history is made by cycles. Probably this "cancel culture" were made in the past, maybe more than once.
That's my opinion ofc, and i won't write more, just wanted to say: study history, and languages are beautiful because they contains meaning, and we use them to share, but also to understand ourself, more words more meanings. I can tell you that also because i spoke more than 1 languages, and each one is different! even different because changing language you change the shape of your thoughts...!
I am going to make sure I use the word savage and civilization much more often when I describe a group of people in my games from now on. I wish WotC would publish a list of forbidden words so I can use the more often in my games.
You're my hero. lol 😂
I suppose in WOTC's eyes the Russians invading Ukraine are not being savage or barbaric. They're just "different".
Hello Matt. This video sparked a lengthy conversation with my friend. Unsure if you remember us, but you were BOTH of our first DMs. Thanks for inviting us to your game.
We think you make a lot of good points about the sanitization of the lore of the game. Words like civilization and barbarian are appropriate, we think. In reviewing exactly what these words mean and how they relate to the in-lore cultures they are describing, such as goblins, kobolds, etc. These are uncivilized races objectively. There is not a better word for how these societies operate. You nailed that.
Further, we noticed that there is a wider effort to make the races not "inherently evil." There is a note on DNDBeyond about how goblins have been changed to be more positive and inclusive as a playable race. This may make the game more open to those who seek a more PC game setting. WotC is aiming to make this game as attractive to as many demographics as possible, and we think this is part of that effort. In some ways, we believe this is a good thing, but we personally enjoy the grittier details. However, the game is changeable by nature, and I am welcome to add those details in myself.
We feel that you based your arguments on a slippery slope fallacy extremely often, and maybe the 1984 reference was a bit too far. It's unfair to say that the game is going to be sanitized down into nothingness, even if you are dissatisfied with the changes they are making as of late. We hope you can continue to find enjoyment in this game that you introduced us too. Godspeed.
I have to admit to a certain amount of exaggeration but if someone had told me in 2010 what Americans would be fighting over culturally in 2023 I wouldn't have believed it. That said, the popularity of 5e was partly due to a streamlined ruleset making the game accessible rather than making DnD the least offensive rpg on the market. About the time Tashas came out WotC shifted their focus to sensitivity and inclusion. On the surface this is a good thing but their approach has seen a steady decline in sales. These changes don't seem to be connecting to a wider audience.
We will be covering more material soon that, I believe, shows a well intentioned but ultimately misguided approach to keeping the game interesting but also appealing to the widest audience possible. Stay tuned...
Slippery slope fallacy is way too commonly misunderstood. It's not that a slippery slope argument is a fallacy, it's that you can make a fallacious argument using the slippery slope. In other words, it's not always a fallacy. There are many examples you can cite where the slippery slope was very much the opposite of fallacious. Nothing they say in this video is not borne out by the evidence of the past decade.
I've been watching recently and this topic is a tough one. And yet very simple. I thought both of you did a wonderful job handling the topic. I'm looking forward to part two.
This is awful, how can they be this awful. F WotC!
I think the slippery slope argument is not inherently a fallacy if it is demonstrated that gradual unnecessary change is taking place. Personally I think that this experience has taught me never to buy online books again but to either get text files or hard copies. I understand form a marketing point of view with the current leftwing language purge going, I'm not surprised, and don't really care, if it helps some people purchase the product, then that's just marketing, and some changes may really help people enjoy the game more, I can understand that. However I do think there's a lot of linguistic ignorance and stupidity foisted on us in the name of not causing offence- essentially anything argued to be "de-colonising" is portrayed as a good change, when in fact it might be irrelevant or infantilising. Empire is not a "western" thing it's a human thing. Japan, China, The Mongols, The Maya, The Inca, The Aztecs, The Egyptians etc all of these subjugated people into "civilisation". Similarly the concept of "barbarian" is near universal at a certain stage of civilisation. That being said, WoTC are welcome to modify what they want, but I think if the material has already been purchased, it should be up to the buyer as to whether they want to update their digital copies or not.
Oh boy, they went like University DEI officer levels of woke. That's remarkably sad and pathetic. There's a certain level of flacidity and impotence to policing language. It's like unaliving an opponent instead of killing an enemy. At that point, I despise you.
It's why I don't buy wotc garbage anymore.
There is certainly a shift happening right now.
I can't blame you for that one.
You guys are way to nice. I would fistfight the censors, because i am a barbarian and a savage.
I would never condone violence lol
@@thepickleddragon8590 i guessed so, hence the too nice part. I might have gotten carried away, but censorship is disgusting, and infuriates my savage heart.
@@MrSteelhide censorship is insidious
Barbarian from wiktionary: From Middle English barbarian, borrowed from Medieval Latin barbarinus (“Berber, pagan, foreigner”), from Latin barbaria (“foreign country”), from barbarus (“foreigner, savage”), from Ancient Greek βάρβαρος (bárbaros, “foreign, non-Greek, strange”), possibly onomatopoeic (mimicking foreign languages, akin to English blah blah). Cognate to Sanskrit बर्बर (barbara, “barbarian, non-Aryan, stammering, blockhead”). (note Sanskrit is not considered a "Western" language.) Just to add to this have you ever asked what the word for "German" is in Slavic languages? It derives from their word for "mute" because these people didn't understand what the germans were saying. Nowadays that word just means german.
Glad to see that you made this video. Very alarming that this is going on.
We think so too! Thank you for the support.
That's a lot of alarm bells over editing their own books.
You clearly never read 1984 or Animal Farm.
Dude, the Bullet 10 year is AMAZING!
First of all, great video, thx!
About the language, I agree that historical revision and sensibility reding consultation are wrong.
I am not viewing these videos in chronological order, but the pattern is to always have an alcoholic drink on the side. Shame o me i don't drink alcohol but i have my cup of coffee!
Cup of Coffee always welcome at the bar!
WotC learns how to write better. Literally 1984
I hope I'm reading this as sarcasm, and if so, I agree. I'm baffled by the alarmist reactions to WotC changing their product to line up with whatever values they have. The slippery slope argument is so stupid in this context. They act as if WotC is going to monitor their games and bring down the banhammer if they don't play the way they want. Dracoya literally stated that her groups uses books. Great. This isn't even a problem for her.
@@Sneaky_Pinkyso are you the one that wrote the letter to wotc and complained about being offended by the language uses in DND?
What? I'm not sure what you're talking about. This video, nor anything else I have seen, have included a "letter" that was the catalyst for WoTC's changes. You'll have to actually explain rather than implicate me in something I don't know about. @@yellotang
Savage Giants versus Brutal Giants...ok first of all savage and brutal are synonyms, they are both used as adjectives to indicate a high level of violence for example. Secondly, we do draw useful distinctions between what we regard as civilised versus uncivilised behaviour- and we have laws and social norms about this, it's a normal human process. The decolonisation perspective seems to imply that if you use the term savage or savagery you must be using it in a colonial context by default- and that's not accurate in all cases as demonstrated.
+1 and Subscribed for good coverage of an important topic and for enjoying an adult beverage at the same time.
I have been exploring some good single malt Scotch of late
I find it highly infantilising that they feel the need to alter the authors words especially in these contexts, because actually the authors have an intended meaning which makes sense, and also very few people use the term "savage" these days to refer to a civilisation, but they do use it to refer to a shockingly violent force. To me this is job justification (I also cannot abide the neutering of creative language or the articulation of thought, my neural network between my ears, the vocabulary I have amassed and my articulation of the world around me, is my own, I will wholeheartedly ignore anyone who tries to control it due to their own paranoia.)
Savage to ban the use of the word savage.
Writing for "modern sensibilities" is part of what's wrong in the world. First of all, what adventurer is "sensible"? How is it sensible to put oneself in the thick of battle with monsters?" "Modern sensibilities" is just modern sensitivity. If you find the words of D&D hurtful, find another game. There are several to choose from.
Own hard copy. Don't trust WotC. DnD is dead to me.
I saw someone complain about the use of the word "Phylactery" for liches, because it's a word that Jews use for something.
Great video
Thank you!
Not sure why some players are throwing a stink about language change when it doesn't impact the game at all. WOTC quietly made a change in their word choices, and people are crying fascism when there is no language or tone police in your homes.
If anything, it seems more like these players are forced to question their beliefs and behaviors, and so instead of self reflection they throw a tantrum. 😂
This is coming from a person who is currently creating a homebrew campaign where goblins are barbaric savages, so don't at me about being sensitive.
Sensitive members of society do and have always existed, the language change also helps ease children into the game (because their parents will be more open to them playing it). For the less sensitive player base it makes no sense to acting like a child over accessibility changes, when you literally can make your campaign as gritty and non-PC as you want to.
The PC language change doesn't take away the flavour of the game, why? Because the monsters were so bland to begin with. Goblinoids have been basic with no real depth, just barbaric, savages that advocate for chaos and evil; thats as bland and basic you can get with a adversarial species. This was intentional, to invite people to be more imaginative with blank slate bad guys. The language changes floating around have not changed the blandness of an already bland species imo.
I'm only 10 minutes in and honestly it seems like he's just creating talking points so he can lead the charge as the first voice for people to rally behind.......like why do people just create issues out of nowhere......ok back to the video...
Totally right! People are creating problems where there are none. I personally don't like the sound of sensitivity censors...
"why do people just create issues out of nowhere"
You just proved his point. That is exactly what wotc is doing...
@@knowone2185 But did WOTC make lengthy videos about tackling inclusivity? Or did they just quietly make the changes they felt was right?
The former is clearly throwing a stink over a non-issue, not sure why players like you are throwing a stink about language change when it doesn't impact the game at all. WOTC quietly made a change in their word choices, and people like you are crying fascism when there is no language or tone police in your homes.
If anything, it seems more like players like you are forced to question your beliefs and behaviors, and so instead of self reflection you throw a tantrum. 😂
This is coming from a person who is currently creating a homebrew campaign where goblins are barbaric savages, so don't at me about supporting PC culture.
Sensitive members of society do and have existed, the language change also helps ease children into the game (because their parents will be more open to them playing it). For the less sensitive player base it makes no sense to acting like a child over accessibility changes, when you literally can make your campaign as gritty and non-PC as you want to.
Explain how changing a world like savage or barbaric affects you in anyway whatsoever. What is the tragedy that is ought to be highlighted?
Can we have someone write a 'based' version of the D&D handbook that calls races slurs?
10 minutes to establish that you are anti any censorship. No one is thinking Japan or Korea when they here savage. Make your argument assuming African nations and Native Americans because racists still refer to those cultures that way today.
What words would you choose to describe the difference between a native african hunter & gatherer tribe and a modern western city in, let's say, central Europe? Why can't there be savage tribes in DnD? Now I'm not a native english speaker, but "savage orc" has a different meaning to me than "ruthless bandit".
Almost no people think of cannibalism when think bout Korea or Japan, yet we got quite a few tribes here in Brazil that yet eat human.
Grognard hates book change: news at 11.
This is a lot of meh and pointless sabre rattling while struggling hard to reach for straws that just might not be there.
No one is coming to your table to take away your books; or, tell you how to play; or even, to tell you what words you should to use.
You don't like the changes, ignore them. These are fantasy realms, make up your own stuff that has no ties whatsoever to the world we live in. Have fun. Get creative. It seems these days that people just want to be upset and score brownie points for being upset.
PLAY THE GAME HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY. it's that simple.
They're a company, they can do what they want with their product whether you complain or not; or, support it or not.
If you really don't like them, don't buy them; don't support them; don't talk about them. Welcome to capitalism where you vote with your wallet.
Basically, you're arguing for the use of offensive words because...? Not the hill to d*e on, folks.You're just looking for something to gripe about, and WOTC has provided many better ones.
Who decided that the word “civilisation” is offensive? You? WotC? The Committee for Public Safety?
Archaic terms and morals is what creates the magnetism of Fantasy. Otherwise it’s just cosplay. What sensitivity reading does is ripping the heart straight out of the whole thing, it goes to the core of the fascination of the genre, the living in heroic, fantastical, savage times winning glory by the blade, hailing the old ways of Vikings and Frankish knights and Achaean sea reavers like Odysseus, destroyer of cities.
@@BanjoSick IOW, you oe of those ?reject modernity" types. Got it.
@@GregPrice-ep2dk Just because someone enjoys the archaic sentiments of fantasy does not mean they want them applied to real life. You do understand that you can enjoy things in your fantasy that you would condemn in real life, right? If not you should propably stay far away from any form of roleplaying because that might actually be a dangerous hobby in your case.
Just stop buying garbage WotC products. Sorted.
WOTC is a company. Companies want to make money. Language that historically has been used to discriminate is something they avoid because that alienates demographics of customers. Its simple capitalism, not some big brain plot to censor the "true essence of DND" or something.
Dumb move since the people that complain about language are not the top spenders, most of times those language nonsense is a money sink, most people see it as crazy.
Great video. Sadly, I believe WOTC 5e is lost cause. When WOTC is done sanitizing 5e it is going to be nothing more than a vanilla milk toast poor excuse for an RPG. It is already well on its way to the point IMO. As soon as I see either sensitivity readers or made for a modern audience attached to a rpg product, movie, tv show, ect., I know it is going to be utter crap. I have yet once been proven wrong in that belief.
I am happy that there are a few rpg companies out there that have not succumbed to this utter nonsense and still put out quality games. They are becoming fewer and fewer.
Keep up the great work you two. There are too many influencers like Abadia out there supporting this nonsense.
This is such a overreaction from people lol
This does not affect a single game being played out there XD
"Oh no, it says brutal instead of savage! The horror!" Come on people.
I might even agree with you on some points but this is just so pointless I don't get how a self respecting person can not even care but call it Orvellian. Good job on milking the content tho I guess, I fell for the click bait
Removing words and continually constric0ting language is literally what the Ministry of Truth did to dumb down the people in Orwell's 1984.
I will say I only got 15 minutes into this video before writing this comment, so if I'm missing the mark by not watching the rest of this video, my bad. But overall your arguments don't hold any water. So far, your arguments mostly rely on anecdotal experience, and then justify Gygax's ham-fisted inclusion of eastern stereotypes as a love of what he "knows". That statement is so baffling to me. This isn't a slippery slope, and you have no reason to be alarmed. I think a better argument would be to tackle perhaps whether this is a genuine effort on WotC's part to be inclusive (which can only be a good thing, hopefully you agree) or whether this is a corporate mandate meant to appear compliant to standards of inclusion (in order to avoid a blow to their bottom line).
I think if WotC wants to move away from a legacy of including harmful stereotypes that reduce and minimize the experience of the actual cultures, and perhaps better represent them, that's only a good thing. I don't think they're going about it in a way that is effective, which I think is a topic that actually merits discussion. But this alarmist reaction about "banned" words or "censorship" is so poorly formed that I don't think anyone should take you seriously.