WHY did they Nerf the MONK
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- Опубликовано: 26 окт 2023
- they nerfed the monk
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Hey a 6 level dive in monk to do a 1minute short rest, is a solid buff to warlock. Monk does more for warlock than for monk.
Oh and battle master fighter, likes that too.
That's a terrible idea
That’s six levels to save yourself 59 minutes once a day, you could’ve put those 6 levels into warlock or into paladin to get aura of protection
@palkiagames2514 3x q day isn't it?
@@kristianperez4108 it is a terrible idea. And still a better idea than monoclassing this version of monk.
Also worth noting that the monk no longer has proficiency with shortswords, and therefore lacks any martial weapon proficiencies, thereby locking out of a number of feats
Correction. That change locks the monk out of all weapon mastery feats. The feats made for martials, which the monk is considered both a martial class and a "warrior", they deliberately locked the monks out of use.
5e players: well - at least they can’t make the monk worse…
WoTC: Challenge Accepted!!
I honestly laughed out loud when I realized that they took away shortsword proficiency while changing all the good combat feats to have the prereq of "proficiency with at least one martial weapon."
At this point I'm questioning if they meant "Martials" are getting buffed or "Martial weapons" are getting buffed.
_And even then it's not a big change._
I mean, Fighter and Barbarian got pretty nice buffs
But monks get screwed):
Imagine buffing martial classes without those buffs affecting half casters and full casters that get their martial option
Treanmonk saw something even more sinister. NEARLY ALL of the damage feats are gated away with wierd requirements from the monk.
Now they cant even stun.
But treantmonk also said elements monk is fine now bc he got to move his Allies with his basic attack… a front line skirmisher is good bc it can waste its action moving his Allies. The elemental damage that is useless bc monks get force damage at 6 anyway is fine… and he influenced a lot of people to think that that’s fine too
@@silverjaiden2450 well the collab with d4 dnd deep dive gave me a totally diffrent vibe but its past the feed back closing anyway.
@@hansmuller8762 yea correct. Once he playtested it he changed to “I had fun” bc he was moving creatures through his allies ground effects and moving his allies. Don’t think anyone would choose elements monk for that purpose
@@silverjaiden2450honestly, I feel like TM is getting a bit soft when reviewing the one playtest. If an optimicer can only say he had "fun" without explaining why it was mechanically good.... I don't really get my hopes up
Just want to point out that the save reroll was actually a part of diamond soul so they just broke that feature up into two parts and called it good
God damn
It would be nice if they added notes on why they made the changes that they did.
Then they'd have to figure out why they did it
they removed The invisibility on empty body, basically made stunning strike useless, removed quivering Palm basically... But hey we get D12 punches now right 💀💀💀
which is still weaker then 5e monk
in fairness, I agree that nerfing stunning strike is probably the right move.. They probably overdid it and seemed to have missed that monk needs buffs across the board though even before compensating them for that nerf.
@@1pieveofKH stunning strike in its current form is extremely powerful against single, low Con monsters. Once you get into mid to high tier play, those are incredibly rare, and at lower tiers, it's too expensive to be spammable. Nobody complains that Hold Person is overpowered, and you get that earlier, and as more classes.
@@Kirk9019 I am aware. At higher tier play, though, it can be spammed against a single target and all it takes is one bad roll on the monster's part to effectively end an encounter.
I would much rather Stunning Strike be useable once per turn, but have some lesser effect when the enemy succeeds the save while shifting the monk's power budget elsewhere.
Stunning strike, simply put, feels bad. You can't use it a lot early, and there is a real possibility of crippling yourself by running out of ki, which is a whole other problem that needs to be addressed for low level monks.
At higher levels while you can spam it that isn't fun for the DM when it works, and more often than not you're burning ki without a real benefit.
Monk is my favorite class, and while stunning strike is their greatest strength in 5e it probably shouldn't exist in its current form. I would rather have more damage and more options in combat that a single spammable ability that is too expensive to use early and too ineffective to use later.
@@1pieveofKHOne solution is to give more options for the Monk. I honestly think the level 3 features of the Way of the Open Hand monk should just be given to any Monk, costing Ki Points to do so, that way you get to choose what to do when you hit someone.
Just give them more things, like the Warlocks' Invocations, to add some options in there, and redefine the Way of the Open Hand
Heightened metabolism should be a second level feature because early days is when you feel your lack of ki
Wotc going through their "Better nerf greninja" phase I see.
My boy, look what they did to my boy!😢 That's it, writing a book to one up DND
Obligatory "check pf2e for ideas" comment
That's exactly what I've been doing even before one dnd
If you arent naming it "One *Up* DnD" i dont care how good it is im not reading it.
Check out Pathfinder 2e and look at the monk there if you haven't already
After moving to Pathfinder 2e, this baffles me. Paizo puts out playtests and not only listen to the players but they put out articles explaining how was the feedback and what they did about it. The kineticist for example in the playtest was really underwhelming and on release it's super cool, effective and useful because they LISTENED...now 5e has been out for 9, almost 10 whole years and WOTC has been refusing or taking fucking forever to listen DURING THAT WHOLE TIME, why?
main difference I notice is that Paizo actually took the time to read the survey comments while wotc just 'quantified' the data for analysis (basically scoring them on a percentage basis).
For instance: Paizo reviewing all 1,000 responses to the kineticist (plus following social media comments and conversations in their forums) - who then proceed to make a community post discussing how they're planning on incorporating that feedback for the release. Community reads article and provides more feedback, on release is a great class to everyone's joy.
Contrast that against one d&d not releasing any articles or posts and only releasing interview videos with Crawford - making it a painful slog to try and get anything of value out of nor does it show any reflection on comments received here are some of the more meaningful dribble that was spouted:
"we feel the monk's role is Fine Control... now you can bat away a firebolt if it's coming in at you...the four elements monk was completely redesigned.... this 4 elements monk is them 'going back to the drawing board' now they can 'power up their unarmed strikes with elemental energy"
Suffer through at your own risk:
ruclips.net/video/FU4WXd7ijwU/видео.html
i think there is also a problem with some dnd players arguing for feel then for facts so they are getting 2 different messages for example xp to level 3 makes funny content but he believes monk feels to strong cause his bbeg got stunned on a blue moon. and he undervalues damage
@@Staff7 Thats the issue with people like XP to level 3 often arguing to just not use the rules at all and go for rule of cool. The basic rules need to function, you can always do whatever random stuff you want afterwards.
"The DM can fix it" is a horrible issue that plagues TTRPGs and allows DnD to be such a mess in terms of balance and game function.
@@luminous3558 agreed, "the DM can fix it" shouldn't be your design mindset specially when you are a BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY and you are 200% able to pay people to properly design your game so that it doesn't need constant fixing by those who buy it. Fuck, what's the point of a rulebook if all you're gonna do is say "wow these suck" and throw it to the side?
paizo is the cool stepdad and wotc is the gaping hole where our biological dad is
Wotc really went it's nerf or nothing with onednd.
Nerf collab when 😩😩😩
@@OffbeatOutlaw They are both hasbro... 🧐
@@OffbeatOutlaw I just checked and they apparently already did a collab for the movie. As well as a few crossbow/dragon themed dnd blasters
I love how you start with a joke about 4e being the worst edition when it had the best versions of all the martial classes, and the definitively strongest version of the monk.
Martials are going to be even more of a caddy for spellcasters...is it a surprise that third parties are making better stuff than wotc.
I mean if would be a surprise if it hadn't been the case for all of 5ee's life
One of the main problems is that even though monks have access to weapon mastery abilities, they actually don't. Since the new monk martial arts dice don't apply to weapons, once monks hit tier 3 play they have to choose between using weapons for utility or fists for more damage. Falling behind other martials again.
It hurts.
The Shadow Monk being able to cast Pass Without Trace was worth more than the rest of the class combined (and also made the Monk merely the 2nd or 3rd worst class). Guess what's gone now?
They also had Silence
Re: your point about "oh, all you care about is damage, there's more to the game than damage."
Okay, sure! The three pillars of gameplay are combat, exploration, and social encounters. If the monk isn't good at combat, which of the other two is it good at?
The fundamental roles of combat are tank, DPS, and support. Which one is the monk? The paladin is a tank/support, the barbarian is a tank/DPS, etc. So what about the monk?
And like you said. Did WotC even ask these questions when they decided what the monk should be good at and how powerful its effects should be?
Also I'll raise you multiple of the casters who are not only toptier in combat but have their main stat be used for multiple social abilities and plenty of spells that can replace other classes in all 3 areas of gameplay.
Martials just have to put too much into combat focus and then all they get for it is decent DPR but little utility.
Monk can't even have that.
@@luminous3558 I know D&D is too burdened by lore cruft, but if I were doing this, I'd basically start from square one and be like,
"Okay. Martial tank, martial DPS, martial support. Magic tank, magic DPS, magic support. Martial/explorer, martial/social, magic/explorer, magic/social. Throw in a martial/magic and a Jack-of-all-trades combat/explorer/social class, and you're at 12 classes again."
Glad you feel the same way I do , "the monk is fine “crowd gaslights the hell out of ya if ya bring up a good point
5e Monk: fucking garbage
One D&D Monk:
They lit the garbage on fire 🔥
As a monk main this pains me, so glad our group converted to pathfinder 2e been such an upgrade and made one of the best monk class I’ve ever experienced
ya 3.5 was the last good edition for monks in D&D outside of the rare specific cases like BG3. I miss my monk that the DM had to nerf on character creation so I didn't force are main Damange Dealers and Tank to multiclass into wizard just to keep up.
One D&D nerfed the monk
Baldur's Gate buffed the monk
...I feel like Larian knows game balance better.
Also wanted to point out, that Monks already had immunity to the poison condition (and even the damage!) and moving it to a bonus action is still, a nerf.
Also Stillness of Mind still sucks for the purpose of being Dominated Person lol, they still gonna tell you to NOT uncharm yourself because why wouldn’t you state that? Why couldn’t they make this a reaction is beyond me
WotC: We'll buff Monk.
Gives Bard's, a full caster, Dancer class that outperforms Monks.
And Fighter's a brawling class. And fighters have been one of the only classes to be buffed too! Why the hell can a class about unarmed attacks not be the best option for someone that wants to make an unarmed character? Wizards of the Coast, explain!!!
@@DaWishard Yeah! If they keep this up, they can give each class a "Monk-like" subclass.
If you want to nerf stunning strike, change the condition. Not being able to actually get through with your only feature that distincts your class from others is bullshit
It's bad enough that the feature that basically distincts your class almost never works because of a con save, now you can't even bend your luck a bit by increasing the number of saves
This is the first time I have ever watched a video seconds after it was posted
This hurts. and just refenforces the idea the last campaign(excluding games like Baldurs Gate) I played was in 3.5/3.75 where my first attempt at making a Monk, had to be nerfed by my DM in exchange for a broken camp/party utility to keep it far to the rest of the group. was the best choice I made when it came to the rule sets.
To your last point about D&D being designed around damage, I have something to add onto that, or at least in relation to martials. To the people who are saying "You're only looking at damage. D&D isn't just about damage." Okay, let's just for the sake of argument play along with that level of reasoning...
*What do the martials have going for them outside of combat?*
Crazy thing is that people have analyzed classes using the "pillars of play" (combat, exploration/investigation and social) and, y'know the fun thing? The really super neat thing? Spellcasters dominate *all* pillars. Do you want someone to break into the castle and steal something from the treasury? Get a Rogue, right? No, dumbass! A Druid can just cast Pass Without Trace, then wild shape into a fly. Boom! They can go right into the castle, past all of the guards, climb through the keyhole, change back, grab the maguffin, then turn back into a fly and go back out. One spell, two uses of wild shape and they just did it faster and easier than the Rogue ever could. It's not even CLOSE.
Martial classes have to play by the rules. Casters can make their own rules.
Also, the whole "design philosophy" they have? Get so close right now, because this is going to blow your mind.
They updated the Weapon Masteries to remove the Flex ability (letting you wield a versatile weapon 1-handed while still getting the 2-handed damage). Okay, sounds fine - it was a pretty dogshit mastery ability that only added 1 extra damage per round on average. But that's the thing... the *reason* they removed the mastery was, because according to them, Flex was too STRONG. They thought Flex was overpowered!
Their design philosophy is ass-backwards.
Wizards of the Coast is doing a phenomenal job with this Pathfinder 2e ad campaign.
IIRC 5E (and by extension OneD&D) is designed such that it can be run entirely without any magical equipment. Therefore a fighter doing "well into the 100s" of damage with a two-handed longsword is going to have that damage halved against most enemies in the late game. Perhaps the goal is that the Monk's individual attacks are doing double damage compared to a fighter. But then the purpose of magical equipment is in part to allow the matrials to catch up to casters so this still doesn't make any sense ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Oh yeah One D&D is a thing
Ngl I was happier when I forgot it did
Yea, four elements monk’s ability to change damage type is also made useless by the monk’s ability to do force damage at lvl 6… it’s basically just flavor at that point
Also kinda makes me think they won't do the Ascendant Dragon monk here either
They nerf the Monk any time we work out a way to make them not suck
The insane part is that it still got 70% approval. So a bunch of chodes that never played the monk and never played the playtest decided that since it looks better on paper than the PHB monk and subclasses that that’s good enough even though it’s still much much worse than all every martials in the playtest. Insanely people are pointing out that once this is approved and still seen as bad, then WOTC will just decide to delete the monk and make it a fighter subclass… which is horrible for the game
Honestly, I always felt that Monk should have the Extra Attacks 2 and 3 as well as Fighters.
I feel like some of these changes came from them listening to some of the "problems" people have complained about online. Like you said, people said Stunning Strike was broken because it could stunlock things, and their nerf specifically counters that. A lot of posts online have people complaining about how broken some martial classes are and how weak casters are, with most of the examples being a mix of people misunderstanding mechanics or DMs targeting casters because of how strong they were, making casters weak in that game and martials strong in that game. People complain about Fighters being so bland and boring, some calling them weak because they just keep using Extra Attack and in their games they were useless against something immune or resistant to non-magical damage and their DM hadn't given them a magical weapon. Most simply, it's anecdotes based on very niche situations that end up getting a lot of attention and spread as though they are commonplace problems, and that's what they are changing things based on.
I will say, however, that the Way Of The Elements level 11 feature, giving you a fly speed and swim speed when you use Step of the Wind, I don't feel it makes the level 9 ability to run up walls and across water useless. It requires using Step of the Wind, which requires a Discipline Point to use. And while it lasts 10 minutes and you can fairly easily regain Discipline Points, it's still a resource that you may want to save for other things, while the mobility one is completely free. And sometimes, even when resources aren't an issue, it's better to be able to run along a vertical surface or across water than it is to fly or swim fast. And even then, abilities and spells are typically just better replacements for lower level options. I'm not trying to say that one thing means Monks haven't been nerfed, just that I don't find that specific thing pointless or stupid. I do agree that they've been overall nerfed.
Honestly, the lack of damage would be fine if they were better at stacking those conditions and debuffs, like fear and stun and such. Like it was a trade-off, with Monks being better at giving conditions and Fighters at dealing damage, giving a benefit to choosing them instead of a Fighter. But as you said, Fighters do both better. And it's very disappointing, because Monks could be so unique for Martials if they let them, but it seems almost like they feel the need to make Discipline Points be used for everything, even stuff other classes get for free. That alone would help buff them, making it so things other classes can do for free, they can do for free, with Discipline Points being used for things unique to them. Or, let them get those features early at the cost of Discipline Points, and at the levels other classes get them free, either the cost is removed, or it gets buffed to be worth the added resource.
See, I'm a big fan of the 5e Monk. I fully acknowledge that it does way less damage than the other martials, but that's not why I loved it. I loved them because they had a fairly wide variety of things they could do to support the party with Stunning Strike and breaking enemy concentration and because I just found it very fun to be speedy and punching things. So, speaking as someone who is not hugely concerned with damage, this Monk just seems so much lesser. Monk does need more damage, without a shadow of a doubt, but they also need that capacity to support the more powerful members of the party and this just has neither. Outlaw is right, they need to look at what Larian did with the Monk in BG3 for it's damage potential but then build off of that. Look at all the other martials and see what gap there is between them and get the monk to fill it. There is so much potential to make the Monk both cool and powerful but it's just being completely ignored.
Maybe they don't need to do as much damage as a Fighter but if that's true, then they need to be doing something else that other martials can't. There's so many cool ideas you can bring in from both real world and fictional martial arts that could make the Monk awesome. Maybe instead of being huge on damage, you could have them being more about inflicting conditions on enemies that makes life easier for the other characters. Judo throws to inflict prone, pressure point strikes to give enemies disadvantage on attacks, or even maybe a way to break armour to give enemies an AC drop so that the Fighter or Barbarian will definitely be able to rush in and deal the final blow. Maybe the Monk wouldn't be racking up monster kills, but I think it would be cool if they were the ones with the highest number of assists.
#GETMONKSBUFF
the biggest problem with monk is the price paid vs what they actually do.
Compare the uses of ki vs, say, the Cunning action from the rogue. The monk uses ki or "discipline points" (fucking hate the new name) to do the almost same things, which means it's worse because they spend a resource for it. In fact, there's not much you can do as monk that you can't do as a rogue, and the rogue gets to deal more damage too, something that matters in a game like DnD.
Before supporting others, the monk class needs to support itself. It doesn't matter what buffs, debuffs or whatever it applies, if it has a saving throw (like stunning strike, one of the weakest feats) it's probably going to fail, because it's a M.A.D Class. At the end of the day, the monk needs to be a good class on it's own right, and that means fixing the Multiple Ability Dependent nature of it, it means improving the damage, the defense/survivability, and overall access to forms of regenning Ki, as well as improving what Ki can do
My Aasimar Sun Soul Zealot still isn’t allowed to combine his Con into his AC. Also, he isn’t allowed to be an Aasimar. They’ve magically gone extinct.
Honestly 5e/Playtest Monk just needs to be more like Pathfinder Monk
Oh yeaaaaah this is the revoew content I'd been waiting for
Yeah old Shadow Monk got to cast Silence, Darkness, Darkvision, and Pass without a trace as spells. These cost 2 KI points. So the new version you get Darkvision, instead of the ability to cast it. If your party has a lot of players without darkvision that's a potentially big nerf otherwise having it for free is probably a buff. No Silence, or Pass without a trace is a pretty huge nerf. The new version of darkness and you basically getting devil sight is probably a buff. But it's a buff that most people hate. That devil sight playstyle is real strong from an optimization standpoint but it drastically hampers the rest of the parties ability to fight. Them reducing the casting cost to 1 ki point is nice. So you are taking the monk class that's supposed to be good at stealth and subterfuge and you took away some of the features that really made it banging at those things. Kind of a big slap in the face to intended concept. Like darkness is probably better than silence. But the issue is you cast darkness and whammo a big black dome everyone can see. It aint subtle. Silence on the other hand no one who's not inside of the dome is going to have any idea it was cast at all.
that 'nani' is so relatable
They took my boy and shanked him in the kidney then put a bandaid over the wound and called him fixed. I read that damage increase when I checked it and got so excited and then whiplashed hard when I saw everything else
I sitll cannot get over the fact the only way WotC seems to know how to fix Monk is to reduce it to a shitty Bard subclass.
I'm wondering if there's something about the way we play dnd vs the way WotC plays dnd where they believe Monks are actually super strong
The Dancer Bard is a better Monk than the actual Monk class.
@6:00 The issue with the Monk is that it is a Martial Support Class that REQUIRES SUPPORT. Now that you have only one chance to do your Stunning Strike- on a Constitution save, you need support. You need a Divination Wizard with Portent, or Silvery Barbs, or some Bard thing to make your stunning strike land. The issue is, Players want THEIR CHARACTER to do something cool. They don't want to use their feature on your stunning strike... especially, when we are forcing a con save that has Low likelihood to land.
I believe this design is intentional. They should tell people in the Class Description that you will need teamwork to make stuff happen. Right now, you are going to try and play a martial and you will end up playing a less cool bard (reference to the support stuff in the class).
Deflect Missiles should've been just Deflect. That would be fun.
Hey outbeat, im asking out of curiosity (and im sorry if this somehow annoys you):
Did you try pathfinder 2e (if yes, what did you think of it) and why not, if not?
He did and there are videos of it
@@shadow-faye thank you, but tbh honest, i didn't find them, wich video are you talking about exactly?
i feel self-conscious soying over how good pf2e is but leave it to wotc to be paizo's biggest hype man with these playtests
I've been trying to switch over to Pathfinder 2e, still store crawling for the player's handbook, but I really think Offbeat Outlaw would love some of the classes in there; definitely Magus
….might still be a good class…if you’re playing a deprivation quest with an abusive DM.
Pickpockets stole all your stuff, guards are after your head and your starving? No problem!
I for one sure am glad they gave the monk the overwhelming power of a greataxe at top levels. Sure, no GWM, which is a massive reason why great weapons are good to begin with, but...uhh.....why can't monks just add 1d6 to strikes on the levels they get bigger instead? They'd still be behind, but 4d6 per attack compared to 1d12 is *better*, right?
2d6 damage bonus is already better than GWM
It is not as if getting locked out of new GWM was a big deal
Pointing out that SS used to last until the end of your next turn, so u could take advantage of the stunned opponent but u couldnt keep doing it turn after turn, now you can potentially stun every turn
My prediction is that one dnd will be the new 4th edition
I want martials to be good, I really want to play a monk at a fighter level of damage. The fact that a fighter with a pike is a better staff fighter than the monk makes me sad
23:30 That's a lotta Damage!
But just as offbeat has mentioned.. it still wasn't enough
I have been messing around with monks having 2x kids points and changing stunning strike to a wis save and if the enemy fails they have a -1 to attack rolls and saving, this can stack to -10. This is from a thought point of stunning is not fun when it happens to you but this give more utility. Also bumping all the martial dice up one grade.
It’s ok but the issue is the amount of ki points required and the amount of unsuccessful saves the bbeg has to make to make it feel effective. A cloud giant has a 75% chance of saving a stunning string with a dc save of 15. Which means you have you would need to spend around 16 ki points to get the giant to have a -4 bonus to attack roll. Ya know something a level 1 cleric with the bame spell has access to.
Just let the monks stun…. Your bbeg has even higher con saves and your fights should have multiple versions of one enemy so you don’t care if one gets stunned. Or just have a enemy use a help action being stunned is literally only not fun when your not the DM
I made patient defense and furry of blows free along with adding all the tashas optional features it works pretty well but the monk doesn't have a lot to spend ki points on
They did what to my Quivering Palm!? The most decent feature that in 5e is "Die or massive damage." now is "Massive damage or half damage.". Wizard's of the coast are stupid.
Edit: Now that I end to see the video I can say this: The changes are not fine. I love playing martials more than casters and I can say casters are broken (spells that control people, FIREBALL, summon incredible beasts, FIREBALL, spells with no saving throws to avoid the effects, FIREFUCKINGBALL + any feature they have), even the half-casters are stronger than martials (Paladins are very tanky and can do more damage with Divine Smite, Rangers have a lot of versatility and Artificer just GUN and magic items gallore).
Meanwhile martials: Fighters are made to primarily attack, Barbarians are meat walls and damage sponges (High health, con and damage resistance) and Rogues are good for hit and run tactics, stealth and damage. Monks are just half of what a Rogue is, being only better in the movement department, which there are Rogue subclases that can do things better than a Monk.
Thanks for reading and remember, kill the caster first.
The only good thing coming out of 5.5 is the new exhaustion rules. Just a simple -X where X equals the level of exhaustion you have easy math. I'll stay with normal 5E or jump to PF 2E or Call of Cthulhu.
I'm just going to use the bg3 monk or make my own homebrew monk cause one d&d monk is insulting. Hell, bg3 nerfs stunning strike by tying it to standard attacks and all the monk subclasses feels a billion times better than paper cause larian actually playtested and improved the class ground up. Wotc just looks like they're guessing about what to do from random feedback.
I would be surprised if your campaigns even go past level 12 tbh
But hey! At least they upped the martial arts die! Sure are hitting at their weight class!
sadly it doesn't effect weapons so its basically a nerf
Feat:fork the costal wizards.
Req:monk (no multiclassing)
You deal 2x damage and anything you attack has disadvantage on saving throws on that attack.
I've gotten to the point I'm just ignoring One D&D entirely. There is pretty much nothing in there I care about at all.
The only good thing that I can recall from OneD&D is the weapon mastery system. It is a great idea.
Geez, if they don't want people to play monk they should just remove it from the class list. They've just ensured that there is absolutely no reason to ever roll up a monk.
How about we all just keep playing 5th edition and just port over some of BG3's rulings and changes? Like, maybe not the one where you can cast however many leveled spells you damn like in a turn, but Thief Rogue bonus actions and Monk changes are freaking great.
As a monk main, i'm just gonna play an unarmed style Fighter if I ever wanna play a monk in DnD One, or a Druid and use a quarterstaff the entire time
Can you cover the new monk, which is at least much better and sort of justifies the insanity of them having a d8 hit dice?
Wizards hate monks always have always will look at dragon monk they showed a cool concept nerfed to hell with their ki abilities and the special fizban release promoted ranger dragon knowing full well we wanted to know about the monk. so yeah wizards hate monks
I always feel like the monk is supposed be able to do two things from what the design suggests: Be a great tank and control the battlefield by zipping around stuning people or knocking them over and such. The potential is there, bonus action dodge, ok if not great AC and awesome saves (dex and wis standard and the big proficiency buff latter) for tanking and things like stunning strike and great movement for controll. the problem is just they all have limited uses and other classes are just better.
Fighters outclass them in both roles depending on the subclass (battlemaster for control and cavalier for tanking or just any fighter thanks to heavy armor and extra feats) tbh I'd bump up their hit dice to a d10 like other martials, make patient defense and step of the wind cost no KI, mayber a base version thats free and an enhanced version for points like step of the wind is disengage or dash and does both with ki and patient defense being free and giving damage resistance if Ki buffed. And they would need to make stunning strike more effective, maybe something it does even if saved against or refunding the cost if it failed?
The class always has potential: it's a bit limiting in RP but very fun to play. It just needs like 20% more and a clearer identity to be an awesome class.
I will say that the change for grapple and push being attack actions helps the monk quite a bit. you could push over the enemy with your attack and still flurry on the prone enemy so at least there is potential for the judo/mma monk that we always tried and failed to build XD
Monk is my fav class, and without homebrew items i hate playing them because i feel like a shit fighter or bargain bin rogue. A friend played a sorlock with close quarters shooter so he could EB in melee with armour of Agathys just to flex how much monk sucks.
I know people love to dunk on 4e, but let's face it, 4e was the last time that monks, or just most martials, felt on a similar playing field to every other class
Monk needs the Dice damage from 3.5, it was the only change i made to monk in my games. That and you gain additonal ki points equal to your dex and wis modifier plus level. There monk is fixed
Honestly, if they still want to releae the 2024 ph/oneD&D/6th edition whenever they wanna call it they have about febbruary before things actually foing to print so probably what we see is close to what we'ill get, and we have still haven't seen the spells.
Deflect missiles is terrible now because of the save. The enemy takes no damage on a successful save. You know what ability is similar? Sacred Flame. Which is notoriously known to be a terrible cantrip. But at least it doesn’t cost a resource, like say a discipline point. Making deflect missiles worse than the worst cantrip in the game. Awesome.
STEP OF THE WIND got buffed. Now you perform both effects simultaneously as one bonus action. That's actually solid... but it still costs ki so it's crap until at least level 8.
It’s not enough, it’s meh
Now you can be useless twice!
@@OffbeatOutlaw Rogue's cunning action is better, no doubts about that. They also need to buff the monk instead of trying to balance something that isn't even broken.
It also costs a ki and eats a bonus action. Now you lose an attack and ki to do something a rouge can do for free.
You can make it so that each individual effect costs no Ki, both maybe costs 1, but this is still not an improvement when you can also just do more damage for that Ki point
Lvl 18 but i never see anyone at tht lvl
And this is another reason I am glad I moved to pathfinder.
That's terrible of them to do that. I have a friend who likes playing as a monk.
How can you nerf a class that is already not very powerful?
Simple, you listen to random people on the internet claiming things are strong rather than doing actual analysis of it in play
They removed Tongue of the Sun and Moon for fucking no reason and replaced it with an upgrade to Deflect Missiles that could have just been put into the feature Deflect Missiles and said "And then it can do this at 13th level" and instead of letting Monks just be immune to most status effects like Charm, Frighten, Poison, and Disease you instead have to waste your time using a bonus action to remove any condition that Stillness of Mind and Purity of Body made you immune to and also completely forgetting to do anything about Timeless Body which was cool as fuck. Monk was already weak in combat why did they have to nerf or outright remove the abilities that made them more utilitarian especially considering how high level those features were. They have just made everything about the Monk less cool less impactful and less capable of doing what Monk does.
Why... just why can't I play a guy who beats people with my kung Fu? This is Bullshit they HAVE to redo it
Monk is horrendeous in the playtest, but most of the other changes I am on board with.
Wizards got an unnecesary buff, still hoping they are nerfing some spells in return.
There is a ton of places where I would like to see bolder bigger changes, but also a lot of possitives out there. Look at the new rogue, gotten a big boost.
So yeah, I am pretty sure the internet and the survey tore them a new one on the monk, so hopefully the next one will be better.
As to how this happened, WotC don't put balance first, it is an after thought for them. They put fun, and flow of the game first. So my guess is stunning strike made monk turns take too long, because, you have to do one attack at a time, because as soon as they fail that save, you have advantage on the rest of your attacks. So you do your attacks one at a time, and then also between each attack the DM has to make a roll. That can slow the game a lot, so I think they wanted to minimize that.
Anyway, that is a fine goal, but they have to compensate the monk with a lot more than they got.
This why homebrew will always be more rewarding than relying on a fat company who doesn’t care about its players. One empty promise after another, leads me to just give up on WotC’s ability to make the game fun.
Obviously because monks have too much damage and health /s
What did the balder's gate monk change?
I have been avioding the game like a plauge in case I eventually want to play it blind, but I am a little curious.
More ki, other ways to regain ki, more damage and extra bonus actions (2 flurry of blows for example, 3 turns, once per day) in open hand monk, a feat that significantly increases strength monk damage
Then there's the items, lots of items to help monks out and help them deal more damage.
imagine if your ki pool and dps weren't garbo
basically that
What the other two said. More Ki, more tailored magic items than Wizards of the Coast cares to give, and actual buffed features that makes even the weakest monk a powerdhouse among its other class piers.
Its worth playing BG3 just to play a monk alone tbh
Ngl monk is such a fun class it’s one of my favorites. But every time I’m begging my dm for magic boxing gloves or something. It is severely underpowered. With like 59 gazillion different options it’s kinda confusing but at the same time it’s USELESS beyond level 5.
Patient defence and step of the wind should be free bonus actions, balances with rogue, monk ac is bad, dodge action and hide are both good survivability options.
Enhanced metabolism should just be, if you have zero ki points, you get proficiency bonus ki points back when you roll iniative.
Nerf to stunning strike is super unecessary. Just let monks do monk things.
Not sure why they are afraid to give monks aggressive unarmed damage scaling. D8 at level 1 is still super fine. 3d6 by late game would feel good
i don't care if they remove stunning strike. i just want two things a good monk and martials and casters on the same level. i will never get the second one but at least the monk.
Okay before i watch. There is no way they nerfes the monk without trying to imporve some quality of it. I will comment my thoughts after watching 😊
I actually really like the 9th level feature stuff like that always makes me feel like a naruto char. I understand changing stunning strike to try to make you do other stuff. A monk feels more like a bother on the battle feild. Something of gorilla tatics. Also why is the lv 6 feature so weak wtf. Also defey death is cool
After watching and reading more. I dont think they made it terrible but the really did nerd the damage dropped. So this is kinda crazy
Hey, I liked 4th edition.
One DnD just needs to copy BG3
Can i know your opinion on why you think warlock got buffed as a warlock player me and a lot of other people think its both worse and no longer has a personality
You still have invocations, you got pact magic back with the recent one dnd changes, and you get more spell slots.
Straight up insanity! One of the worst, weakest classes in the game and they NERFED them and BUFFED virtually all the other martial classes. Who is responsible for this travesty?
So glad Pathfinder 2e exist.
Pathfinder monk is fucking awesome.
What was so bad about 4e?
I have one buff that could help Monk's.
Ki Regen: Whenever you make an attack, every d20 you rolled regenerates a Ki Point, regardless if you hit or miss.
The changes are fine...
Because nobody is gonna play this thing thanks to stuff like this
I just wanna say my theory is that one dnd is really just consolidating all the books from 5e with some random phoned in changes or even worse just pointless name changes- as a means to transition their platform entirely online, which is entirely unethical in their approach to ownership of content, homebrew, unfriendliness to gms, pricing, its pretty much a dnd 5e battlepass which is fucking awful for roleplaying gaming. This demonstrates to me that the design ethic is change for the sake of change.
If the game prioritised flavour and storytelling more than damage even then the monk would suck- they still haven't fixed the glaring writing problems not to mention the fact that damage alone is the sole defining factor of every fight, there is no strategy, just maximise damage until you are out of resources
Pfft... Design Philosophy?