Many thanks for your detailed description here. Like others I have spend whole weekend in trying to find the issue. Other reviews have been describing the MK3 so great and fantastic but not mentioning potentials issues at all. My one now goes back to the shop as I cannot afford doing product development for NI.
I think liking this keyboard will depend on 3 things, 1, your computers connectivity capabilities, 2 not running into any problems during setup, and 3 not having owned a previous generation kontrol before. For me, I was running it on a usb c capable macbook, so i never had issues with power, i did have issues with getting the thing activated, but I was patient, and im liking it so far. Another thing to note, if you are getting this keyboard and on a macbook that hasnt been updated to sonoma yet i would refrain from upgrading past Monterey if it hasnt already, due to the fact that sonoma isnt fully supported, it does work for me but i did run into some weird issues which disappeared on their own eventually.
I was on Ventura, but I truly think this unit was an early unit. If you take a loom at the hardware before it upgraded, it was early. I truly believe they are working out the bugs.
I have now had an S88 MK3 for about a week or so, from Sweetwater. Thanks to your video I was able to sidestep any setup issues, and I have not had any power issues plugged directly into my MacBook Pro. I also have a powered USB hub, and will see how it works with that. As far as the keybed feel, it is slightly firmer than my Steinway L piano. The depth/throw, carefully measured with a depth gauge, is within hundredths of an inch identical to my piano. Very little sponginess, the keybed itself is pretty quiet (though owners of MK1 and MK2 keyboards say that the clunkiness develops over the course of a year or two). The keys feel substantial, though a little slick; I wouldn't mind a bit of texturing. I am a huge polyAT proponent, if anything I would prefer a little less sensitivity; with Pianoteq I do see some polyAT messages coming thru when playing fortissimo. I am playing it with the Soft 2 Velocity with a slightly adjusted curve in Pianoteq. I think the fact that you got a bad unit may have shaded your overall feelings about the S88, which is very understandable. Also agree that the Studiologic SL88 Grand might be a great alternative; Studiologic won't say if they are coming out with a new version with the TP/40WOOD keybed and polyAT, but you may see a drop in the current prices sometime in the future. I would definitely check it out, because I am more interested in the MIDI Keyboard functions and less so in the Kontrol software.
I really wanted the S88 MK3 to be the only board but think I may have a better solution (except for the Komplete functionality.) but I I still do have the S61 and that is really where I need the Komplete control.
@@Cre8ivKeyboards I am about 2 ½ weeks in, and my main complaint at this time is how heavy the keybed feels. "Keydown" weight on my piano is 48-49 grams at middle C, pretty standard. I measured the S88 MK3 at 63-65, pretty heavy for my taste. My Sweetwater rep informed me that the majority of people like it, but the significant minority that don't are pianists. Still giving it a couple more weeks, because otherwise it would be a perfect board for my needs. btw- quite a few people have had the same Firmware update issues as you described.
@@marzzz1 hi - what did you use to measure keydown force? I should do some measurements (I assume you just used a dial gauge for depth) I may be in a somewhat similar situation to you (though not at your level) - the current house digi piano is a Kawai MP11SE I do have an Osmose and the poly aftertouch (and MPE in general) is an area I'm moving toward and mission critical for me now the osmose feels completely different sure, but I think it's related to the function) It does lead me to a question about "sponginess" -- is that from depth sensitivity in the AT as opposed to (static) pressure sensitivity ? (I get that it's still prob all pressure just with elostomers) -- I don't gel with the manual on the hydrasynth deluxe at all..the light "synth" action is too light for me. BUT ALSO the AT is more static pressure at bottom and I feel like I'm pressing into a countertop. So I suppose in that sense I like sponginess I guess I'm a bit in a fish-nor-foul type situation where a "pianolike" action feels right(it doesn't have to by a fully die hard hammer&escapement emulation, but moew on the piano side of things) yet I want depth sensitivity as well and I want it to cost a dollar, and I want a hamburger, no a cheeseburger, I want a hot dog, I want a milkshake... YOU'LL GET NOTHING AND LIKE IT
@@jimwinger Just saw this. I used ideas from this video- ruclips.net/video/4qS8uQSfOLk/видео.htmlsi=Vhkz2nbTClwEQ1pF I need something that more closely resembles a piano touch, but with polyAT; the historic best was the Kurzweil MIDIBoard, unfortunately mine bit the dust last year. But any MIDI controller with any kind of AT will be some compromise- it can't be helped. Personally, I like a firm aftertouch feel, not too squishy, but definitely should not feel like trying to dig your fingers into concrete (the big problem with the Roland A-80 back in the day (and despite further resistor mods)). I am not interested in the Osmose, the keys are just too dissimilar to an actual piano touch for me to actually even consider it. Still hoping to see an updated Studiologic SL88 Grand.
@@marzzz1 thanks for the info! yeah the Osmose is a totally different beast - I think of it as a completely alternative controller that's "manual shaped" if that makes sense..it's sort of special purpose IMO got a midiboard a bit ago but it was damaged in shipping and the sensors weren't working evenly too bad, b/c the mechanicals were so nice and I liked the front panel response controls..I was sooo disappointed it had problems (I wonder about the sensor split mod I read about - there was some damage, but I think the sensors had some problems to due to age) any thoughts on that new Native Instruments? anyway, thanks for the info
I just bought one and got it put on my desk. I only saw a tiny little USB cable in the box which isn't long enough for me so I thought I'd look and see if it was supposed to come with anything else lol. Apparently not haha. Hopefully I don't have any trouble with getting it to play. My computer is 11 years old so USB C doesn't exist for it. Looks like I'll be cable shopping tomorrow and getting a sustain pedal.
I had a Mk3 but the Keybed on the S49 was not properly secured to the chassis. However it was necessary to have both USB-C cables connected in order to properly power and run the new mk3.
I’ve been following your quest on trying to find a great controller and I’ve went through a similar process. As much as I’d like to think these companies will offer what most are looking for quality keybeds with great controller features. It’s simply not been possible to find, unless we venture to the workstations and or digital keyboards or older controllers when quality was a thing. Good luck with your search. I had the Studiologic SL studio, it was pretty decent, but if you want a great action, which I know is personal for us, but I’d recommend an older workstation with controllers on board, such as Roland Korg or Yamaha.Thanks for sharing your process. There’s countless individuals going through this process as well and were grateful for your videos.
I just received my S88 mk3 yesterday ... and it likewise has power issues: no matter how many power sources I use, the screen only reports 'low power' and does nothing else. I will say that Musician's Friend is taking GREAT care of me on both the return and the replacement that's coming. I am pretty well tied to NI gear since I have their samples collection, so not looking for alternative products (at this point), but there's at least another datapoint involving 'power issues'... and a disappointment.
@@Cre8ivKeyboards2 updates: (1) I purchased a specific 20-25W USB-C "power delivery" device ($15 at walmart) and it does successfully power the board sufficiently to move on in the installation process. My 10-to-12 watt power supplies did not provide enough juice. (2) However... now I'm having USB issues with the computer: "Device Descriptor Request Failed". Windows 10 isn't recognizing the keyboard device (which prevents firmware updates). The driver was installed, but no dice there. I've taken a few steps to try and resolve that issue, but nothing so far. Starting to wonder if the ghost of my prior board (s88 mk2) might somehow be interfering with the process... don't have a chance yet to chase that rabbit down, but will do so in due course. So at this time... still not getting anywhere.
I had my Komplete MKII 88 for around 1 year and decided to move on and upgrade to StudioLogic Numa X GT which has the TP-400 keybed and difference was day & night. All my vst sound amazing with the TP-400 action, im super happy with my 🆕 keyboard and by the way it has great inboard sounds for live use if something goes on with your PC/Macbook your 💯 backed up.
Well, maybe it's a blessing in disguise. The power issue made it easier for you to pass on the feel of the keybed. Sometimes it's hard to tell if it's operator error or not though. When I received my first Behringer 2600, the tuning of all three oscillators drifted really bad...even after an ample warm-up period. But one of the lights on a fader would blink out now and then, which was enough for me to send it back for a replacement. But even though I have 40 years of experience with synths of all designs, I still wasn't convinced I didn't have it set up incorrectly somehow. The replacement had no issues. Bummer, man. Thanks for sharing!
Yes I think you are right. I would have stuck with this solution if it worked for weeks if not months. But the touch was really not what I was looking for. I need to DIG into those piano notes!
I just got an s88 mk3 and the firmware won't update. I've tried every suggestion NI has to offer but still no joy. I'm sending it back. Oh yeah the box had been opened and resealed and the thing was covered in dust.
@utProductionCo.Would you care to elaborate on that a bit for those of us struggling with the same problem? I'm now on my 3RD keyboard and I can't get NI support to stop treating my request like I'm a child. I'd also be curious why -- if it's truly a Windows issue -- that it's not broken for everyone.
Do you suspect you both (@Cre8iveKeyboards and you) might have gotten 'refurbed' (ie. broken and 'fixed') keyboards? The dust on the one on this video was an immediate worry - they should come to you dustless and smelling of that cyclohexane smell they use to clean devices when new. Or did Sweetwater substitute a 'refurbed' unit to you? Either way, a new keyboard should a) work out of the box and b) not have dust on it when you buy it. That's why you buy these things new lol!
There didn’t seem to be the protective cover over your keyboard screen, which leads me to believe it was a return/refurbished keyboard. I say this because I bought my S61 MK3 from Guitar Center about a month after release and the “new” keyboard the clerk retrieved out of the back for me was very obviously opened and resealed. It was so soon after launch I couldn’t imagine they had enough returns to warrant trying to get over on me, but I now believe that was the case seeing all the reports of issues similar to yours. I luckily pointed out the box had been opened and the clerk at GC reluctantly went back and got me a new one, but I believe buyers need to beware of this, particularly on the S88 since the manufacturing was not sufficient to satisfy initial orders. My belief is that NI or the retailers have had a lot of returns of these that had issues and immediately sold them again without informing the new buyer it was a return having assumed the power and windows update issues were user errors. Guitar Center is NOTORIOUS for doing this, but this type of thing from Sweetwater is surprising…although they did recently get new investors, so possible.
Those keybeds get improved all the time, so its not the same one that was in their previous keyboards. It's like buying a car. The model name might be the same, but they still iterate on it
Yep, but it is modified especially for poly after touch I believe. I kind of have mad respect for Fatar after Dr. Mix’s video touring the facility in Italy.
When I played a while with the S88MK3, I took a closer look at the new Chinese processing (my last MK2 was from Tunisia). The screen, the control knobs and the light guide are absolutely great, it could be so nice, but the new updated Fatar keybed is the same crap as in the MK2 in my opinion (minor update w. aftertouch strip). I aligned all 8 rubber pads so that the keyboard fit snugly on my desk. After a few days of playing, some of the keys start making noises (rattling keys) again. If you move the case slightly at one corner by a few mm, you can see how the whole case moves... 13.5 KG and nothing is stable, that doesn't work for long for me, and for this price, no way, that's why I sent mine back. If I want a real good piano keyboard I'll stick with Yamaha or Kawai, but for the Computer/MIDI world, I would just like to have an 88's with the key's from the S61MK3 then it would be perfect and no problems with that "noisy weighted" keys.
Well the mk2 61 I have is a pretty average synth keybed. But everything out there in synth keys is pretty average. The S 88 was solid, just not something I can dig into.
I'm not a pianist and in my opinion I would say that both are identical. Even if the TP/100LR was slightly modified, in my opinion only the aftertouch strip was added. On the whole, it would actually be a good keyboard if it were in a sturdier case and used a better sensible felt. At some point various keys clatter/rattle while playing and it just annoys me. I had 3 MK2s and had the same experience each time, hoping the MK3 would be better but unfortunately it isn't.@@MusicAlfon
I am primarily a piano player, but also needed a versatile 88-key controller with polyphonic aftertouch. Your comments are very helpful. If the SL-88 was upgraded for polyphonic aftertouch, I might like it better.
@@Cre8ivKeyboards That is my thought also- SL/Fatar can't say anything officially, but I know it is something they want to do. Polyphonic aftertouch is extremely important to me for controlling synths. If I wanted a controller solely for playing piano, it would be the Kawai MP11SE. Fortunately I have an actual acoustic grand, so I am willing to have some compromise of piano feel in my MIDI controller, but there is no way of knowing until you actually play one.
couldbe worse, my wife got rid of the house harpsichord...she's happy, but I'm screwed then again, burnishing pearwood jacks with graphite powder is a chore I don't miss
If you seek for a realistic piano touch, have a look to the Roland A-88 MK2. I had a mk1 and it was as good as a piano keybed can be. Escapement but no aftertouch though, but I think that's the tradeoff.
Sorry to hear about the trouble. It definitely looks like a good keyboard. I have played on the fatar key beds and the sl88 grand. I definitely prefer the sl88
It is designed to be a stage piano or living room piano. It wasn't really designed to be a MIDI controller. There's a big difference when you're designing them for certain uses.
My understanding is that the word Komplete is not in the name anymore. I don’t know about these not having one that is not possible so I rely on YT presentations about them. I have a Native instruments Komplete M32. So I have taken note that these are minus Komplete. Am I wrong?
You are correct! It is now called "Native Instruments Kontrol S88 Mk3 88-key Smart Keyboard Controller" but it still uses the Komplete Kontrol software.
I'd bet any money it's just not getting enough juice, even on my S49MK3 I had to use Phone charger and USB-C. I LOVE this Midi keybaord, thought the screen was just a gimmick, nope it's the real deal.
@@Cre8ivKeyboards Its a bit of a misunderstanding to just use a phone charger. it has to support PD, power delivery. which is allot more powerfull. On some equipment underpowering to the level where it turns off or boots, you run the risk of corrupting flash memory. just som info from a electronics engineer.
@@Cre8ivKeyboards oh ok, just making sure because I did see the part when you said the keys felt “spongie” lol. Also, for the power issue, you may have needed the additional USB TYPE C power cable.
You got a lemon. Otherwise, this would be a reason for them to have pulled the product. Plenty of good reviews out there. Sorry you had a bad time. I use to LOVE my S88 MK2. Trying to get away from DAW, but lack of anything NEW and innovative coming out, here I am back to NI looking at MK3 stuff. All major manufacturers keep repacking same old software in a box synths and old tech with new higher prices, same old cr&p. Feel like the industry has gone cold when it comes to being creative. ALL are just continuing to go the marketing money grab route.
I agree with you completely. It’s up to us now to Frankenstein stuff together. I have a video coming about building my “own” S88 kind of. But even watching NAMM this year, did you see any new keyboards that were truly innovative?
@Cre8ivKeyboards Not a thing beyond more analogs. I need/want a workstation. What is sad is I have to pay 3k for a Roland Fantom this is now at least 4 years old. Then I have to pay another 400.00 more to get it updated to the latest model software. Fantom EX and the 3.0 upgrade before it w the wave step and advance sound shaping. Money grab. That is almost all we see. Same old tech, updated, sometimes repackaged. Nothing New. The big boys are counting on the fan boys and youtube to promote them. Hats off to Behringer for being one of the few to bring affordability and countless new hardware to the table. Korg repackage how many vsts in a box this year ? I lost count. 😞 Roland just moves bits and pcs of existing software around to make 'new' packaging and different layouts of same ol. I would mention the k2700, but that is also a repackage. Akai, they give us a toy keyboard version of mpc instead of a true 88 key mpc x se.
Kawai MP11 is the best if your playing piano, nothing is really going to compare. BTW I returned my SL88 to Sweetwater. Kawai MP11 kicked it's Ass. hope u found a good one.
I'm sure. I plan on selling in upgrading from the S 61 Mark two to the Mark three very soon soon. But this was more about the keyboard, not feeling right for me. Even if the keyboard had worked, and I had not had power issues, while the interface and workflow would have worked, most important thing for me with the 88 note keyboards is that they feel right. And for me, this was not right.
Love my S88 mk3 I had the opposite problem, Didn’t have usb C so needed separate power supply which I got. USB a to c will not power it, the instructions tell you that but not in an obvious way (I didn’t realise when i bought it and had to wait a day for a power supply from Amazon) I used my own usb cable and it wouldn’t update, kept failing Tried NI cable and it updated first time in under a minute. It’s the same Keybed as the mk2 except they added after touch, actual Keybed is the same, as you say the Arturia key lab mk2 also uses the same keybed (although Arturia action is heavier) I think you’re being slightly unfair about the action , not that you’re wrong, it’s just that almost all multi purpose controllers Keybed are similar. If you want to play the piano, none of them are really suited, you need to buy a slab designed primarily for the piano. if I compare my S88 mk3 to my Casio px 870, the Casio feels very like playing the piano whereas the S88 feels like playing a weighted keyboard (hope that makes sense)
Native instruments is an excellent music software company, but it looks like their hardware division is not up to par with other dedicated hardware manufacturers like Roland Akai korg Yamaha and a few others, I think that native instruments is farming out hardware production to a lesser quality contractor, maybe I'm right maybe I'm wrong but why take the chance and buy this keyboard. Native instruments gets a C for trying.
Many thanks for your detailed description here. Like others I have spend whole weekend in trying to find the issue. Other reviews have been describing the MK3 so great and fantastic but not mentioning potentials issues at all. My one now goes back to the shop as I cannot afford doing product development for NI.
I think liking this keyboard will depend on 3 things, 1, your computers connectivity capabilities, 2 not running into any problems during setup, and 3 not having owned a previous generation kontrol before. For me, I was running it on a usb c capable macbook, so i never had issues with power, i did have issues with getting the thing activated, but I was patient, and im liking it so far. Another thing to note, if you are getting this keyboard and on a macbook that hasnt been updated to sonoma yet i would refrain from upgrading past Monterey if it hasnt already, due to the fact that sonoma isnt fully supported, it does work for me but i did run into some weird issues which disappeared on their own eventually.
I was on Ventura, but I truly think this unit was an early unit. If you take a loom at the hardware before it upgraded, it was early. I truly believe they are working out the bugs.
What is the problem if someone having owned before a previous generation of kontrol?
I have now had an S88 MK3 for about a week or so, from Sweetwater. Thanks to your video I was able to sidestep any setup issues, and I have not had any power issues plugged directly into my MacBook Pro. I also have a powered USB hub, and will see how it works with that. As far as the keybed feel, it is slightly firmer than my Steinway L piano. The depth/throw, carefully measured with a depth gauge, is within hundredths of an inch identical to my piano. Very little sponginess, the keybed itself is pretty quiet (though owners of MK1 and MK2 keyboards say that the clunkiness develops over the course of a year or two). The keys feel substantial, though a little slick; I wouldn't mind a bit of texturing. I am a huge polyAT proponent, if anything I would prefer a little less sensitivity; with Pianoteq I do see some polyAT messages coming thru when playing fortissimo. I am playing it with the Soft 2 Velocity with a slightly adjusted curve in Pianoteq. I think the fact that you got a bad unit may have shaded your overall feelings about the S88, which is very understandable. Also agree that the Studiologic SL88 Grand might be a great alternative; Studiologic won't say if they are coming out with a new version with the TP/40WOOD keybed and polyAT, but you may see a drop in the current prices sometime in the future. I would definitely check it out, because I am more interested in the MIDI Keyboard functions and less so in the Kontrol software.
I really wanted the S88 MK3 to be the only board but think I may have a better solution (except for the Komplete functionality.) but I I still do have the S61 and that is really where I need the Komplete control.
@@Cre8ivKeyboards I am about 2 ½ weeks in, and my main complaint at this time is how heavy the keybed feels. "Keydown" weight on my piano is 48-49 grams at middle C, pretty standard. I measured the S88 MK3 at 63-65, pretty heavy for my taste. My Sweetwater rep informed me that the majority of people like it, but the significant minority that don't are pianists. Still giving it a couple more weeks, because otherwise it would be a perfect board for my needs. btw- quite a few people have had the same Firmware update issues as you described.
@@marzzz1 hi - what did you use to measure keydown force? I should do some measurements (I assume you just used a dial gauge for depth)
I may be in a somewhat similar situation to you (though not at your level) - the current house digi piano is a Kawai MP11SE
I do have an Osmose and the poly aftertouch (and MPE in general) is an area I'm moving toward and mission critical for me
now the osmose feels completely different sure, but I think it's related to the function)
It does lead me to a question about "sponginess" -- is that from depth sensitivity in the AT as opposed to (static) pressure sensitivity ? (I get that it's still prob all pressure just with elostomers) -- I don't gel with the manual on the hydrasynth deluxe at all..the light "synth" action is too light for me. BUT ALSO the AT is more static pressure at bottom and I feel like I'm pressing into a countertop.
So I suppose in that sense I like sponginess
I guess I'm a bit in a fish-nor-foul type situation where a "pianolike" action feels right(it doesn't have to by a fully die hard hammer&escapement emulation, but moew on the piano side of things) yet I want depth sensitivity as well
and I want it to cost a dollar, and I want a hamburger, no a cheeseburger, I want a hot dog, I want a milkshake...
YOU'LL GET NOTHING AND LIKE IT
@@jimwinger Just saw this. I used ideas from this video- ruclips.net/video/4qS8uQSfOLk/видео.htmlsi=Vhkz2nbTClwEQ1pF I need something that more closely resembles a piano touch, but with polyAT; the historic best was the Kurzweil MIDIBoard, unfortunately mine bit the dust last year. But any MIDI controller with any kind of AT will be some compromise- it can't be helped. Personally, I like a firm aftertouch feel, not too squishy, but definitely should not feel like trying to dig your fingers into concrete (the big problem with the Roland A-80 back in the day (and despite further resistor mods)). I am not interested in the Osmose, the keys are just too dissimilar to an actual piano touch for me to actually even consider it. Still hoping to see an updated Studiologic SL88 Grand.
@@marzzz1 thanks for the info!
yeah the Osmose is a totally different beast - I think of it as a completely alternative controller that's "manual shaped" if that makes sense..it's sort of special purpose IMO
got a midiboard a bit ago but it was damaged in shipping and the sensors weren't working evenly
too bad, b/c the mechanicals were so nice and I liked the front panel response controls..I was sooo disappointed it had problems
(I wonder about the sensor split mod I read about - there was some damage, but I think the sensors had some problems to due to age)
any thoughts on that new Native Instruments?
anyway, thanks for the info
I just bought one and got it put on my desk. I only saw a tiny little USB cable in the box which isn't long enough for me so I thought I'd look and see if it was supposed to come with anything else lol. Apparently not haha. Hopefully I don't have any trouble with getting it to play. My computer is 11 years old so USB C doesn't exist for it. Looks like I'll be cable shopping tomorrow and getting a sustain pedal.
I had a Mk3 but the Keybed on the S49 was not properly secured to the chassis. However it was necessary to have both USB-C cables connected in order to properly power and run the new mk3.
Yeah will need to do that!
I’ve been following your quest on trying to find a great controller and I’ve went through a similar process. As much as I’d like to think these companies will offer what most are looking for quality keybeds with great controller features. It’s simply not been possible to find, unless we venture to the workstations and or digital keyboards or older controllers when quality was a thing. Good luck with your search. I had the Studiologic SL studio, it was pretty decent, but if you want a great action, which I know is personal for us, but I’d recommend an older workstation with controllers on board, such as Roland Korg or Yamaha.Thanks for sharing your process. There’s countless individuals going through this process as well and were grateful for your videos.
I think I have a solution if the SL Grand is the touch I’m looking for.
I just received my S88 mk3 yesterday ... and it likewise has power issues: no matter how many power sources I use, the screen only reports 'low power' and does nothing else. I will say that Musician's Friend is taking GREAT care of me on both the return and the replacement that's coming. I am pretty well tied to NI gear since I have their samples collection, so not looking for alternative products (at this point), but there's at least another datapoint involving 'power issues'... and a disappointment.
I have felt your pain my friend.
@@Cre8ivKeyboards2 updates: (1) I purchased a specific 20-25W USB-C "power delivery" device ($15 at walmart) and it does successfully power the board sufficiently to move on in the installation process. My 10-to-12 watt power supplies did not provide enough juice.
(2) However... now I'm having USB issues with the computer: "Device Descriptor Request Failed". Windows 10 isn't recognizing the keyboard device (which prevents firmware updates). The driver was installed, but no dice there. I've taken a few steps to try and resolve that issue, but nothing so far. Starting to wonder if the ghost of my prior board (s88 mk2) might somehow be interfering with the process... don't have a chance yet to chase that rabbit down, but will do so in due course.
So at this time... still not getting anywhere.
I had my Komplete MKII 88 for around 1 year and decided to move on and upgrade to StudioLogic Numa X GT which has the TP-400 keybed and difference was day & night. All my vst sound amazing with the TP-400 action, im super happy with my 🆕 keyboard and by the way it has great inboard sounds for live use if something goes on with your PC/Macbook your 💯 backed up.
Yes I am in complete agreement. The TP400 Wood makes playing any piano sample magical!
Well, maybe it's a blessing in disguise. The power issue made it easier for you to pass on the feel of the keybed.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if it's operator error or not though. When I received my first Behringer 2600, the tuning of all three oscillators drifted really bad...even after an ample warm-up period. But one of the lights on a fader would blink out now and then, which was enough for me to send it back for a replacement. But even though I have 40 years of experience with synths of all designs, I still wasn't convinced I didn't have it set up incorrectly somehow. The replacement had no issues.
Bummer, man. Thanks for sharing!
Yes I think you are right. I would have stuck with this solution if it worked for weeks if not months. But the touch was really not what I was looking for. I need to DIG into those piano notes!
I just got an s88 mk3 and the firmware won't update. I've tried every suggestion NI has to offer but still no joy. I'm sending it back. Oh yeah the box had been opened and resealed and the thing was covered in dust.
Wow, same.
Hopefully, you haven't sent it back because It's an issue within Windows and not NI.
@utProductionCo.Would you care to elaborate on that a bit for those of us struggling with the same problem? I'm now on my 3RD keyboard and I can't get NI support to stop treating my request like I'm a child. I'd also be curious why -- if it's truly a Windows issue -- that it's not broken for everyone.
Do you suspect you both (@Cre8iveKeyboards and you) might have gotten 'refurbed' (ie. broken and 'fixed') keyboards? The dust on the one on this video was an immediate worry - they should come to you dustless and smelling of that cyclohexane smell they use to clean devices when new. Or did Sweetwater substitute a 'refurbed' unit to you? Either way, a new keyboard should a) work out of the box and b) not have dust on it when you buy it. That's why you buy these things new lol!
There didn’t seem to be the protective cover over your keyboard screen, which leads me to believe it was a return/refurbished keyboard. I say this because I bought my S61 MK3 from Guitar Center about a month after release and the “new” keyboard the clerk retrieved out of the back for me was very obviously opened and resealed. It was so soon after launch I couldn’t imagine they had enough returns to warrant trying to get over on me, but I now believe that was the case seeing all the reports of issues similar to yours. I luckily pointed out the box had been opened and the clerk at GC reluctantly went back and got me a new one, but I believe buyers need to beware of this, particularly on the S88 since the manufacturing was not sufficient to satisfy initial orders. My belief is that NI or the retailers have had a lot of returns of these that had issues and immediately sold them again without informing the new buyer it was a return having assumed the power and windows update issues were user errors. Guitar Center is NOTORIOUS for doing this, but this type of thing from Sweetwater is surprising…although they did recently get new investors, so possible.
Thanks for sharing!
You bet!
It's the same Fatar TP-100 keybed as the previous, with aftertouch.
Those keybeds get improved all the time, so its not the same one that was in their previous keyboards. It's like buying a car. The model name might be the same, but they still iterate on it
Yep, but it is modified especially for poly after touch I believe. I kind of have mad respect for Fatar after Dr. Mix’s video touring the facility in Italy.
When I played a while with the S88MK3, I took a closer look at the new Chinese processing (my last MK2 was from Tunisia). The screen, the control knobs and the light guide are absolutely great, it could be so nice, but the new updated Fatar keybed is the same crap as in the MK2 in my opinion (minor update w. aftertouch strip). I aligned all 8 rubber pads so that the keyboard fit snugly on my desk. After a few days of playing, some of the keys start making noises (rattling keys) again. If you move the case slightly at one corner by a few mm, you can see how the whole case moves... 13.5 KG and nothing is stable, that doesn't work for long for me, and for this price, no way, that's why I sent mine back. If I want a real good piano keyboard I'll stick with Yamaha or Kawai, but for the Computer/MIDI world, I would just like to have an 88's with the key's from the S61MK3 then it would be perfect and no problems with that "noisy weighted" keys.
Interesting comment, I am deciding between mk2 and mk3. How would you describe the keybed action vs the s88 mk2?
Thanks for experience!
Well the mk2 61 I have is a pretty average synth keybed. But everything out there in synth keys is pretty average. The S 88 was solid, just not something I can dig into.
I'm not a pianist and in my opinion I would say that both are identical. Even if the
TP/100LR was slightly modified, in my opinion only the aftertouch strip was added.
On the whole, it would actually be a good keyboard if it were in a sturdier case and used a better sensible felt.
At some point various keys clatter/rattle while playing and it just annoys me. I had 3 MK2s and had the same experience each time, hoping the MK3 would be better but unfortunately it isn't.@@MusicAlfon
Exactly what I thought a very expensive gadget. Thanks
I am primarily a piano player, but also needed a versatile 88-key controller with polyphonic aftertouch. Your comments are very helpful. If the SL-88 was upgraded for polyphonic aftertouch, I might like it better.
I would bet they may upgrade the SL line with this, but after touch is not that important to me.
@@Cre8ivKeyboards That is my thought also- SL/Fatar can't say anything officially, but I know it is something they want to do. Polyphonic aftertouch is extremely important to me for controlling synths. If I wanted a controller solely for playing piano, it would be the Kawai MP11SE. Fortunately I have an actual acoustic grand, so I am willing to have some compromise of piano feel in my MIDI controller, but there is no way of knowing until you actually play one.
couldbe worse, my wife got rid of the house harpsichord...she's happy, but I'm screwed
then again, burnishing pearwood jacks with graphite powder is a chore I don't miss
If you seek for a realistic piano touch, have a look to the Roland A-88 MK2.
I had a mk1 and it was as good as a piano keybed can be. Escapement but no aftertouch though, but I think that's the tradeoff.
Thanks! I have found my baby in the SL88 Grand.
Sorry to hear about the trouble. It definitely looks like a good keyboard.
I have played on the fatar key beds and the sl88 grand. I definitely prefer the sl88
Thanks Nick! Yeah I think this is actually going to work out for the best! The SL88 Grand Unboxing review will be coming soon!
Did you ditch the Yamaha P-515?
Yeah, had to. Just wasn’t the best MIDI Controller. I have found as good an action though in the StudioLogic SL88Grand!
@@Cre8ivKeyboards what makes the P-515 inferior as a MIDI controller?
It is designed to be a stage piano or living room piano. It wasn't really designed to be a MIDI controller. There's a big difference when you're designing them for certain uses.
What keyboard stand are you using?
Same question from me.
Great video @Cre8ivKeyboards. Thank you
I've had it for years. It's a WS-550. Useful for many things. www.quiklok.com/product/ws-550-heavy-duty-mixer-stand/
Does it have aux?
Dont remember. Check the photos.
My understanding is that the word Komplete is not in the name anymore.
I don’t know about these not having one that is not possible so I rely on YT presentations about them. I have a Native instruments Komplete M32. So I have taken note that these are minus Komplete. Am I wrong?
You are correct! It is now called "Native Instruments Kontrol S88 Mk3 88-key Smart Keyboard Controller" but it still uses the Komplete Kontrol software.
I'd bet any money it's just not getting enough juice, even on my S49MK3 I had to use Phone charger and USB-C.
I LOVE this Midi keybaord, thought the screen was just a gimmick, nope it's the real deal.
Yeah probably. I will be selling my S61 MK2 and getting the MK3 so NI will get another chance (and another review!)
@@Cre8ivKeyboards Its a bit of a misunderstanding to just use a phone charger. it has to support PD, power delivery. which is allot more powerfull. On some equipment underpowering to the level where it turns off or boots, you run the risk of corrupting flash memory. just som info from a electronics engineer.
Go Knights!
I hope he pulled the sponge from underneath the white keys out lol
They actually do ship with a sponge under the 49 and 61 note version but not this one! ;)
@@Cre8ivKeyboards oh ok, just making sure because I did see the part when you said the keys felt “spongie” lol. Also, for the power issue, you may have needed the additional USB TYPE C power cable.
I had major software issues with this. Now I have them sorted its good.
Glad to hear you got them solved. I'm sure it will be great for so many folks!
You got a lemon. Otherwise, this would be a reason for them to have pulled the product. Plenty of good reviews out there. Sorry you had a bad time. I use to LOVE my S88 MK2. Trying to get away from DAW, but lack of anything NEW and innovative coming out, here I am back to NI looking at MK3 stuff. All major manufacturers keep repacking same old software in a box synths and old tech with new higher prices, same old cr&p. Feel like the industry has gone cold when it comes to being creative. ALL are just continuing to go the marketing money grab route.
I agree with you completely. It’s up to us now to Frankenstein stuff together. I have a video coming about building my “own” S88 kind of. But even watching NAMM this year, did you see any new keyboards that were truly innovative?
@Cre8ivKeyboards Not a thing beyond more analogs. I need/want a workstation. What is sad is I have to pay 3k for a Roland Fantom this is now at least 4 years old. Then I have to pay another 400.00 more to get it updated to the latest model software. Fantom EX and the 3.0 upgrade before it w the wave step and advance sound shaping. Money grab. That is almost all we see. Same old tech, updated, sometimes repackaged. Nothing New. The big boys are counting on the fan boys and youtube to promote them. Hats off to Behringer for being one of the few to bring affordability and countless new hardware to the table. Korg repackage how many vsts in a box this year ? I lost count. 😞 Roland just moves bits and pcs of existing software around to make 'new' packaging and different layouts of same ol. I would mention the k2700, but that is also a repackage. Akai, they give us a toy keyboard version of mpc instead of a true 88 key mpc x se.
Kawai MP11 is the best if your playing piano, nothing is really going to compare. BTW I returned my SL88 to Sweetwater. Kawai MP11 kicked it's Ass. hope u found a good one.
The Sl88GRAND is my keyboard. I’m done. I have found her.
😊😊😊😊
I’d probably redact your serial number. Not ideal having it on display for your viewers
Why? I sent it back.
anecdotal report, not representative of the product in general.
I'm sure. I plan on selling in upgrading from the S 61 Mark two to the Mark three very soon soon.
But this was more about the keyboard, not feeling right for me. Even if the keyboard had worked, and I had not had power issues, while the interface and workflow would have worked, most important thing for me with the 88 note keyboards is that they feel right. And for me, this was not right.
Love my S88 mk3
I had the opposite problem,
Didn’t have usb C so needed separate power supply which I got.
USB a to c will not power it, the instructions tell you that but not in an obvious way (I didn’t realise when i bought it and had to wait a day for a power supply from Amazon)
I used my own usb cable and it wouldn’t update, kept failing
Tried NI cable and it updated first time in under a minute.
It’s the same Keybed as the mk2 except they added after touch, actual Keybed is the same, as you say the Arturia key lab mk2 also uses the same keybed (although Arturia action is heavier)
I think you’re being slightly unfair about the action , not that you’re wrong, it’s just that almost all multi purpose controllers Keybed are similar.
If you want to play the piano, none of them are really suited, you need to buy a slab designed primarily for the piano.
if I compare my S88 mk3 to my Casio px 870, the Casio feels very like playing the piano whereas the S88 feels like playing a weighted keyboard (hope that makes sense)
Thank you!
Junk.
Yamaha mox8 weighted touch..
I hate instruments that won't play out of the box. This obviously isn't for players, it's more for knob twiddlers.
I think it was just an early build due to the firmware.
@@Cre8ivKeyboards A company of this size should know better than to send out defective instruments.
Native instruments is an excellent music software company, but it looks like their hardware division is not up to par with other dedicated hardware manufacturers like Roland Akai korg Yamaha and a few others, I think that native instruments is farming out hardware production to a lesser quality contractor, maybe I'm right maybe I'm wrong but why take the chance and buy this keyboard. Native instruments gets a C for trying.