The Story of Indian Scripts - Part 2 | The potshard inscriptions of Keeladi
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- Опубликовано: 16 фев 2023
- Is Tamil Brahmi older than the Brahmi script? Could the Indus Valley script, which was in use in north-western India over 4500 years ago, be related to Tamil Brahmi, that was used in South India? Which are the oldest dated inscriptions in India? What languages and scripts are those inscriptions in?
In 2015, archaeologists excavated a host of ancient artefacts from a place called Keeladi near Madurai. Among other things, they found many potshards with different sets of inscriptions. While some of the inscriptions were in Tamil Brahmi, the oldest potshards had graffiti marks that looked a lot like the script of the Indus Valley Civilisation. That script remains undeciphered to this day. What does this discovery at Keeladi tell us about the evolution of scripts in India?
In this video (the second in a two-part story), we continue tracing the fascinating journey of Indian scripts and languages. In the first part that you can view here: • The Story of Indian Sc... , we explored the evolution of scripts over the last 2000 years. In this video, we go even further back to explore how writing systems developed in India over the last 5000 years!
This video is brought to you in partnership with Tamil Nadu Tourism, Saint Gobain and the Department of Museums
Editing credits: Venkat Krishna
Music, Sound Design, Mix & Master: Vishwi www.vishwimusic.com
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IMAGE CREDITS: To view attributions for images used in this video, click on this link -
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Greetings from China. Indian scripts are so fascinating and ancient; their history is unparalleled. Loved both videos!
thank you :)
[7/3, 3:14 PM] purushothaman p: Interesting.. is there any reference to Indus and Sumerian..
And this Brahmi could be seen as agamei agam+mei
Now having few insights into Indus and Sumerian..I thought of looking into Chinese and Japanese to have additional insights.. let me see..
In Tamil Lord Murugan and Agasthya are associated..the archetypes of both Murugan & Agasthya are just about the same, the inner mind.. say Muru+ga >> muru+agaa...agaa ...is agam inner mind like Anuman..the muruga could be seen as Child ego, the inventor.. further note Tholkappiam meipattiyal and pirappiyal, and Valluvar first poem agara..aga..ra.. these show how languages not only of human but of any being have evolved..
The above thoughts are initial thoughts.. let us see..
ruclips.net/video/Yz5OYW_8R2E/видео.htmlsi=tfdDgOeC9-7Jrf37
[7/3, 3:14 PM] purushothaman p: Now let us presuppose clusters of population...
Egypt
Sumerian
Anatolian
Persian
Elam
Asia minor
Indus
Gangetic
Dolavira Maharashtrian Magan
Dilmun Kerala
Kanyakumari
Madurai
Kaveri Poompatinam
Kanchipuram
Srilanka
Australia
Ethiopia
So on all coexisting some 2000 BC...were speaking and having arts on rocks, pots, woods.. etc...
Now
Tamilnadu.. we have an education system teaching children how to read.. that has one element Amma, mother abstracted as A,a...another read pictures only and tell stories.. the later is akin to Indus, former is Sumerian..
Where are those Chinese people.. I suspect they knew writing development in their own country, South, Northern parts of ancient India and elsewhere.. they should have all the hidden knowledge of writing evolution world over..
Chinese had trade relations with Tamil or Dravidian speakers of Southern parts...
So in essence we have to slowly build up and explain iteratively..
Sumerian spoke and wrote Tamil..
ra of Sumerian is both aram, aRam, arai... respectively sawing tool, virtues, half.. even parasu (ram) as axe could be seen in Sumerian..
Indus the Rosetta stone is Dholavira wall sign.. that wall sign reflects the city name as passed down and the fort archeological evidences... That is in Tamil or could be read even in Hindi or any Dravidian languages...dolak as pallak or kaavadi refers to carrying goods, Veera is soldiers.. our sangam poems few tell us how business people got kings support to protect their goods...
Chinese were on Indian East coast both travellers and business people..
Sumerian used a river double. curved line as scripts or pictogram to represent river with phonetic value of a, A.. in Tamil.. same letter is used to indicate many other words..
The point we could welcome ideas and proposals how these things would match or not...
[7/3, 3:14 PM] purushothaman p: Ofcourse this was a year ago, but didn't take into account our Keezhadi scripts dating to 600 BC...and our archeological scholars proposing that writing in Southern parts of India was wide spread as noted by common people writing on clay pots.. this scratching method in Tamil is kiiruthal and the Sumerian did use the root syllable, "ge" to scrible and write.. we have a poet by name Nak.kiiran the writer who is great.. though we interpret his name differently..
If we consider the word Brahmi came from interactions with Sumerian, we can reconstruct it with Sumerian syllables.. ra+mi where already we have shown ra as aRam and take mi or me as shining, bright, intelligent, truth etc.. now we have in present form of Tamil as aRam mei ..the truth of virtues..
Note one of my proposal tells how the word Kali Yuga itself would have been constructed from Sumerian written days as things are changing ka for mouth, saying, libi or liko or lika as written saying..
It is possible every one with vested interests started hiding Sumerian linkages..
I have also postulated that the priests of Sumerian migrated back to India as priests of our modern days... I also the poets banan banani aswell migrated from Sumeria to India..
I postulate that Decan Platue was origin of Indus scripts or earlier form of Indus scripts in art & pictogram forms... from here people went to Mesopotamia and Indus..
Mesopotamian wrote a+5+a as Aya as father..by a complex system that is very close to Indus aswell, except for using different scripts but same reading methodology..
I could read an Indus seal based on Kangali's inputs as a poem in Tamil on rain water harvesting...
Indus is deciphered but no uniformity because very nature of the lessons taught in schools in Tamilnadu involve same method..involved students imaginations and word power to tell stories looking at pictograms.. how did such teaching methods is present in Tamilnadu if we could not trace it evolution of scripts..
Keezhadi has already been dated to 800 BC now. We need more excavations to be conducted in Vaigai and Porunai basin.
no no scientifically . they say maybe . but it is not confirmed yet .
@@sohamshinde7978 ever heard of carbon dating
@@maghee83 i know but it is dated to 5th century bce not 8th century bce .
@@sohamshinde7978 it is date from 800bc to 300 bc somewhere
@@birdsfly259 Bisnupriya Basak questioned whether the sherds actually came from the same level that was dated to the 6th century BCE. Some of the marks might have been made during the pottery-making process. Archaeologist E. Harsha Vardhan commented that “we cannot state scientifically that the Tamil-Brahmi script belongs to the sixth century BC” on the basis of this report.[17]
As tamilian, we still have the habit that scratching name on pot or vessels before giving presentation or gift to our neighbors. Just difference between old & present is clay pot & nowadays metal vessels. Putting name habit on vessel still continues. 100% sure vessels must have name that who presented it, then nothing will not be anymore.
Intresting fact is that i am sitting in a remote village of Uttar Pradesh 2500 kms away from tamilnadu and this same tradition of engraving name on the vessel is practiced here.
And not only in Uttar Pradesh but you will find this in whole north India.
So the more you will search, the more will find oneness.
Yes, this is very true. It served a practical purpose when you live in a community of knowing whose dishes are whose. Even today in India it is very common to write ones initials or name on stainless steel or silver vessels.
@@nopek1405 North Indians are ancient Tamils.
Tamil is mother of languages including Sanskrit as proved by Nostratic studies.
@@TSR64 Please can you direct me to some English content on this subject? Does this have anything to do with the theory of Dr K Loganathan?
I believe that they have written their names in them so as to identify and differenciate them.
This proves that even the commoners were literate unlike other societies of that time
As a Punjabi I am happy the Tamils are the inheritors of Indus Valley civilization just like us plus they can tell me more about Indus Valley.
😂
This comment is definitely by a Dumeelian 😂
After over the past 8 to 10 years watching these types of documentaries on Indian history, I found your presentation very well prepared and non-ideological. It discussed the topics with clarity and logic, without a need to descend into hyperbole or nationalistic fervor. I wish that other Indian historical producers would follow your very clearly enunciated style and projection of the facts as opposed to opinions. It certainly adds credibility unlike some others who even though may had very important things to say, waffled on & left it up to the watcher/listener to 'fill in the gaps'. Extremely well done, in my opinion! Like some of the other commentaries below, I look forward to presentations. I also suggest that you extend your research to Sri Lanka because I am absolutely certain that South Indian history extends into this area as well. Perhaps a joint research project with Sri Lankan counterparts may lead to discoveries not even envisaged about the Tamils & their ancient history? Congratulations to both presenters.
Tamil Brahmi is the oldest known script in out country!!!! Even older than Brahmi script! --- That's an eye-opener and every Indian should know about this! WOW! BLOWN AWAY...
Harappa script oldest
Given that Sanskrit didn't fall from the sky and belongs to the Indo-European family of languages, and all the Indo-European languages outside India adopted the Phoenician alphabet, it is imperative that Sanskrit either took the same script or found an alternative script that originated in the Indian subcontinent, i.e., the script used for Tamil.
India means modern india
In past even iranians are vedic people
Gandhar become kandhar
Uttar kuru become xingjiang
Saka peple are from uttar kuru
Xerxes from movie 300
Real name is Khshayarsa hindi name
@@shirokun4742why not publish a paper abt it?
@@shirokun4742 Kandhar always a Kandhar only.. It did not derieve from Gandhari..
@@vinodhsivaprakasam4923 kandhar infact derived from Gandhar
@@avinash801 Lord Karthikeya was also called as Kandha as the influence of Lord Shiva and Subramanya is very well spread in the middleEast till northern Africa. Hence Kandha/Skandha -> Kandhar
The Missing Link of Indian History is the Keeladi. The single most important discovery of Indian history is the Indus Valley Civilisation. Keeladi perhaps will be the next important discovery as it will certainly link back to the Indus Valley Civilisation. It will no doubt rewrite the history of India. Just a matter of time. Unbiased video. Kudos!
What will happen to North Indian Hindu nation Brahmin supremists, the RSS stooges?8
@juniper7905Proof? I think you have deciphered Indus Valley script!
I think korkai dated to 800BC also obtained potsherd bearing name "athan" in tamil brahmi. Korkai also older capital of pandiyas before keeladi(madurai). In srilanka there is seal called Anaikoddai seal dated to iron age(1000BC-300Bc) bear both megalithic graffiti and tamil brahmi popularly know as monolingual biscript.
And Kannada is the most underrated Language by archaeologist
But Kannada is the only language in the world that we reads like what it is written and we writes like what it is read
💛❤️
Most Abiguda languages are like that.
i am confused, isn't Hindi like that too? The devnagri script is written according to the words pronunciation. Or is Kannada more nuanced in that regard?😅
@@geisha-12 probably he didn't refer to any other Indian languages.
more nuanced
@@geisha-12
I really like the neutral tone of the story. Great work. The politics around the oldness of languages is based on educated guesses of Historians. The end of the video sums it up really well, that such theories are based on evidence which might not be self sufficient.
Only the Tamizhi Script found in the upper layer is dated to be 600 BC. The Grafitti and Grafitti + Tamizhi found in the lower layers were not at all dated. Considering that artifacts in the lower layer could be 300-400 years easily older than the upper layer. We can easily see that the Grafitti is older than 1000BC. Unlike North, the excavations in Tamil Nadu are not funded properly and are not followed up properly. Also the number of scripts found in North and South is so different. In south atleast 800-1000 inscriptions are found in just 3 excavations done where as after so many excavations of North only Brahmi which is from that 7 places have been found. The Evidence is clear but the political interventions are not allowing the facts to come up.
Even North also many tamil inscriptions are found.
@@motherearth5229 oh... 👌
Interesting can you please give some details?
Exactly. Whichever the evidence is unearthed, appreciate it and be proud of it whether its north or south… politicians have agenda .. but atleast scientific community and readers should only have focus on unearthing the facts.
In North no Tamil inscriptions exist but proto-Dravidian and North Dravidian language inscriptions like Kurukh and Malto exist. Tamil only existed in Tamil Nadu and Kerala regions, Uttar Pradesh region spoke other Dravidian languages, not Tamil.
@@nilipertamaprakoso4156 I have never said Tamil was found in North. My point is by the amount of inscriptions older than 500 BC that is available in TN, it can be easily inferred that Brahmi inscriptions are derived from Tamil Inscriptions. Also only in Tamil nadu sites only you can observe the evolution of Tamili Script from Indus Script.
Appreciate the channel for the clear presentation of the facts without distortions. Such presentations are much needed for Indian society to who we are!
K. Amarnath Ramakrishna, who excavated Keezhadi and led the first two seasons of excavations between 2014 and 2016, submitted his 982-page report to ASI Director General V. Vidyavathi recently. The report has 12 chapters explaining the historical background and objectives of the excavation. Based on the results of stratigraphy of the cultural deposits found in the first two phases, the period of the Sangam era archaeological site has been placed between 8th century BCE to 3rd century CE.
Sangam age was believed to be between 300 BCE to 300 CE. The new report repositions the Sangam age between 800 BCE and 300 CE.
Is the report available for public to read? If yes, can you tell me where I can find it?
@@Woongiboongi Same question I have. I am deeply interested to read the report of the Archeologists.
@@dmandal.jaalcaryes it is. Go to : keezhadi.tamilheritage.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Amarnath-keezhadi-excavation-p3.pdf
@@dmandal.jaalcarthere are free pdf online, just search it up. Or if you know tamil, listen to his speech about the evacuations !
As I Tamilian I Salute ur Great Work
The stories are getting really interesting.
Its not just a story. Epigraphy is a science. Facts will emerge as part of this study.
The history of Tamizh people and the Tamizh language in the deep south of India is so so fascinating, its like forgotten roots linking somewhere... but where and how? Are we all linked to the Indus Valley civilisation? Did some kind of god or being came down to earth on this part of the world and created a civilisation? Just so fascinating. In years when AI has achieved super intelligence, all this will be deciphered.
U guys are very under rated
I step towards deciphering IVC script ❤️
So excited 🙂
Super nicely presented . Great job. Nice job. wonderful presentation.
Thanks Storytrails, what's incredible is that all this and more is emerging as we speak at the Keezhadi excavation sites. Truly fascinating & thanks for explaining all this with such clarity!
Keep up the good work. You are unbiased and stick to the facts, without wild leaps of imagination and hence more credible. Good show and stay out of ideology. More power to you.
Very very High Quality Videos. Kudos to your team
Why is it Tamil Brahmi, while it is supposed to be just Tamili. The archeological evidence shows Tamili evolved and had been in laymen use much earlier than Brahmi.
It is called Tamil Brahmi (just like the North version is called Ashokan Brahmi) because the word 'Brahmi' means 'created by Lord Brahma'. Lord Brahma is the creator deity in Hinduism, the largest indigenous religion of pan-India. If we just say Tamili then Tamils get arrogant and start claiming whole India as theirs, so God's name is given to the script so that nobody can 'claim' it as theirs and then start showing social arrogance.
@@nilipertamaprakoso4156 that's means hiding the facts too😂... Hinduism was not pan indian religion.... Have you ever heard about Aaseevagam. It is the ancient tamil religion, its significance is nature and ancestral worship (more like the religions still found in africa)... It disappeared when divinity concept of hinduism seeped down South... We tamils believes murugan as our ancestor and ravanah as our king... And you should learn who coined the term brahmi... When they say it is brahmi, they try to prove sanskrit is first... But they say the fact, I.e., thamizhi, it definitely means tamilians are more indigenous to this land....
@@whoops0 Aaseevagam is a word literally taken from Sanskrit word 'Aajivika' lmao. Because you old Tamils couldn't pronounce 'J' so you changed it to 'S' lmao.
Anyways, Sanskrit Ajivika was part of Hinduism. Maybe when it became corrupted into Tamil as 'aseevagam' nobody took it seriously because you just copied it instead of using your own religion. It's definitely not ancient Tamil religion. Ancient Dravidian religion (of which Tamil is a part) is called Tirāviṭa nāṭṭuppuṟa camayam. Yes, that was a separate religion from Hinduism but later they accepted that their practices are similar to what Hinduism prescribes.
Worship of nature and ancestral worship is integral part of Hinduism even in 2023, you are so ignorant you don't even know that. It's not unique to Tamils, even Uttar Pradeshis do it to this day. They pray to their ancestors in Haridwar where the holy Ganga flows.
Murugan is the son of Lord Shiva, and we call him Karthikeya and we pray him as well (less than Shree Ganesha, but still we pray him from time to time). So no, he's not solely Tamil property AT ALL. Gods are NEVER a state's property. Murugan is mine too, he belongs to Gujarat as much as he belongs to Kerala.
@@whoops0
Ravana is the villain in Ramayana. He's the king of Sri Lanka, not the king of Tamil Nadu. Tamil Nadu is not a part of Sri Lanka. And if you ever read Kamba Ramayanam, you will see that Tamil Thaaye (the ancestral goddess of Tamil people) HERSELF blessed Shree Rama, despite him coming from North, to slay Ravana because of his evil deeds. Now you want to go against your own ancestral Tamil Thaaye to justify Tamil extremism and separatism and your urge to cause civil war in India? NO NO NO we North Indians know already what you guys want and we will make sure you fail.
Sanskrit's script was never first. In terms of writing Tamils may be first because they didn't have the memorizing power of Indo-Aryans ever in the history of the world. Imagine, Tamils wrote their language first, but Sanskrit STILL lived and became more popular despite not being written and just being passed from one generation to another through oral tradition. SHAME for you guys huhuhuuu.
Tamils came from Elam region of South Iran, you are definitely not 'more' indigenous to this land at all. You are Iranians, just like Aryans are Central Asians. You are as foreign as we are. If you try to cause civil war to send us back to Central Asia, we will make sure every one of you flees like a herd of buffalos back to Iran and then get diminished by the Islamic population there today HAHAHAAHA.
@@whoops0 I don't think your old religion or old script exists today.
mr kamalakara and sara mohan are intelligent, articulate and easy on the eye. very informative films.
As a north indian Its so idiotic and unjust how these civilization chapter are not as well known and spread we should try to find such sites in all parts of the country... Simply fascinating 🔥
Thank you for bringing such an enlightening video
Very interesting, and very well presented too. One has to approach knowledge with an open mind, accepting the ideas conveyed by new findings and develop or adapt inferences based on such evolving findings from progressing excavations. That only will lead to truth, even if it takes a long time to get there.
Great work dear ones we very much appreciated your work.
Superb video. Learning about the Indian evolution of languages.
A very nice post. Thank you.
Very well presented 👍👍
You have quite tantalizing eyes, Ms. Mohan, and a soothing voice.... Great work on your communication skills... 👏👏
Good work guys! Keep it up. Unlike western archeological studies, the ones in our side of world has not been that encouraged. So much needed research work is still required!
now we have poompuhar
Post a video about it.your both voice is so soothing and clear ❤️
Absolutely gripping! I'm learning so much from you guys :)
Very neat explanation...kudos
Good..Very Good,, Beautiful presentation.. Keep doing.
Very useful and informative vdo. Thanks
Potsherds with brahmi inscriptions discovered in Anuradhapura were dated to sixth to early fourth century BCE. There, Brahmi script is used to write in a Prakrit. This shows that the brahmi script was common in the South few centuries before the Mauryan empire.
Recently, an amateur researcher named Mr. Yajnadevam published a paper on Academia titled 'Deciphering Indus Script As Cryptogram.' In this paper, he used 'ta' and 'da' from the Brahmi script, which have the same symbols in the Harappan script, to crack the code. Miraculously, he was able to complete the decipherment. You can read his paper or watch his presentation on the Sangam Talks channel. According to his theory, the Brahmi script is the standardized form of the Harappan script.
P.S.: This is the only complete decipherment of the Harappan Script so far with all the seals deciphered.
Can you please provide the link of the paper. I am interested.. thanks
for me, all Indian languages and scripts are the cradle of civilization which gave the world loty more than we can imagine in the past and I am so excited to see we are getting close to deciphering Indus Script one of the oldest civilizations
The production values are so high in this channel. What a pity youtube has so few highly educated users or it would have a million subscribers.
Very well elaborated .
good unbiased presentation
South Indians mostly are knowledgeable & unbiased ❤️
No, they are chauvinist only where they want to claim invention of everything without enough evidences and but with fantastic marketing!
That is biased views. It is only because of current situation and current situation of northern India is bad is because of exploitation by british and frequent invasion of North India. You won't find temple older than 200-300 years.
@@rajendradangi2585 who needs a temple to find the history.... We people from South don't know our history from temples... We dig deep down the rivers and find these scripts.... And are you going to say that current historical situation is bad in North because British and mughal dug up all the evidence and erased the history?
@@rajendradangi2585 the current situation of South India because if north indian ruling united India. They require our tax money but don't want to give our share
@@parambariyam359 dont fall for propaganda…
Great informative video
Excellent video
The quality of the video is remarkable! Congratulations to the team.
EXCELLENT JOB
CONSIDER REFFERING TO LALIT VISTARA (BRAHMI OF 600 BCE) IN PART 3 .
Excellent. Thanks.
Perfect presentation 🎉❤
Requesting you to make videos on hero stones.
Explain certain points like origin of hero stones making, locations where these stones found, similarities and cultural links behind making of hero stones.
I am from Maharashtra and ancient hero stones are common findings in my native place. We even worship certain hero stones at certain parts of areas where my community lives in parts of Sahyadri range in northern Pune, western Ahmednagar, southern Nasik and eastern part of Palghar districts of Maharashtra.
I am curious to know my or I can say our heritage.
🙏
Those are chalco lithic culture warrior gods for particular area
thats a legacy of kannada kings
Thanks for the video
If the truth comes out, many people will go mad.
That is a very mind boggling discovery & presentation. The statement made by Amarnath about unrefined graffiti was very catchy.
It is but natural that anything to start with will be rudimentary and refinement comes over a period.
My observation; language always remains phonetic and script comes only in the later part of any human being life. It wasn't necessary in day to day life then.
And the initial graffiti found in pottery, meaning it could be a sign of identity of the pot-maker in a simple way, for advertising or exhibiting the skills, durability, longevity of the pots to consumer. It was also easy to print on clay (thus clay tablets could have be used as a form of advertising a particular brand of pots or other products). Just a thought. Good job. Keep going.
Yes people think that it was written by the pot maker, but it is ruled out. Pot maker will write on wet pot before heating it as it is easier to write on wet pot for the bulk of pot he was making, in this case it was written on the final finished pot by scratching on it. Only common man will do this, not the pot maker. In Tamil nadu even now in villages, we have the habbit of writing the names in stainless steel vessels.
@@eniyathendral2728 Brilliant connectivity. The Potter too was an ordinary or layman. He could've carved his SIGNATURE too.
I think amarnath indirectly pointing even pot makers know read write. Education was available to everyone in that society
@@balasubramanianmudisoodump2474 he was pointing all the public can read write and that is why the pot has graffiti letters in white scratched like lines, if pot maker would have made it then it will imprinted in the pot and the letters will be same color as pot color, not in white like scratch.
@@eniyathendral2728 agree
With meagre funds allotted by the Union, Keezhadi is slowly exposing itself one of the oldest civilization of the world and stepmotherly treatment by ASI is resented by all Tamils in TN.
It’s not just for Keezhadi. The ASI in general doesn’t get enough funds. We as Indians only like to boast about our past, but don’t really care to actually work on discovering and deciphering our history
@@health_ness i just hate how some political party even use basic civilisation and archeological discovery to the core of there people to divide and spread hatred in peoples heart Dravidian politics just can't get lower than this this thought of our race better than yours will surely not gonna help
In Sinauli, UP, recently a chariot and multiple male and female warrior burials were found. They were from 2000-1800 BCE. ASI took some stuff, burried everything and left. People are farming there now. Rakhigarhi is one of the largest and oldest indus valley sites. The 5000 year old pots and tools and bones are scattered all over the village. You yourself can go and pick them up and take them with you. Government has not even acquired the land. Those are also very important sites. Keezhadi seems like a good professional excavation on par with other sites. If there is some real issue, bring it to light and ask ASI to fix it. The whole country does not work to kill it's own history.
Anna very nice work 🙏🏾
Good presentation 🙂
I always thought why South people write names like Swathi,not Swati 😂
Now I know
thats how its sounds. foreigners will read swati as swa-T. actually spelling should be Swaathi
Why should we care how foreigners pronounce our names?
And anyways, Tamils write their language name as 'Tamizh', why don't you use your logic there that 'omg, foreigners might read this wrong'. Why only use this logic for Sanskrit names like Swati (Swathi), Saraswati (Saraswathi) etc. and not for pure Tamil names like Vetrimaran, Kolagatti etc.? You guys just unnecessarily want to 'otherize' North Indians and everything associated with them that's why you make such unnecessary changes
@@nilipertamaprakoso4156 its Vetrimaaran 🤣
not only foreigners we want every one to pronounce our name correctly.
and thats not logic thats how sound of a letter is properly used😂
and we write Tamil as Tamizh coz we have ழ ள ல 3 "la" in which ழ sounds different and other 2 similar for which "l" can be used but for ழ there's no letter available in English alphabet.
"zh" is officially a letter for ழ declared by us. so theres no any logic to be implemented here.
@@user-qxpkwl
Don't cry for one 'a'. We write 'Tamil Nadu' but we pronounce 'Tamil NAAdu' only.....same can apply for Vetrimaaran
And okay, if you have three L's, make a new style of 'L' letter instead of putting two random letters (z and h) which have nothing to do with 'L'' lmao.
For example, L̅ (It's 'L' but with a special symbol on top to distinguish it from the normal 'L', it's way more logical to use something like this instead of random 'zh')
@@user-qxpkwl Also, my original comment was for the fact that you guys only change 't' to 'th' and 'd' to 'dh' in Sanskrit/North Indian names.
Why don't you say 'Kezhaadhi' instead of 'Keezhadi'? Why don't you say 'Thirunelveli' instead of 'Tirunelveli'? Or why don't you say 'Madhurai' instead of 'Madurai'?
C'mon, stop lying now. This extra 'h' rule is only for Sanskrit/non-Tamil names like Ranjith, Swathi, Saraswathi, Hindhi etc. You guys made this rule so you can differentiate North Indian culture from Tamil culture and promote discrimination against non-Tamil culture and non-Tamil languages. Tell me ONE pure Tamil name where you put 'h' in front of 't' or 'd'.
I humbly request this video makers to - not to use the word STORY "Previous story" when speaking of Keeladi.
It's HISTORY not STORY.
Excellent research team and narration. 🙏 A big thank you for the tremendous effort in identifying original sources of Indian languages and their archeological links.
Clarity👍
Very nice
கல் தோன்றி மண் தோன்றாக் காலத்தே முன் தோன்றி மூத்தக் குடி தமிழ் குடி
We need to make further study on Poompuhar. What was thought to be a 2500 years old civilization is being described as a 15,000 years civilization now.
Great video, but note that Norse runes became simpler over time: Younger Futhark is simpler than Older Futhark.
Hope the marks with the Indus graffiti and Tamili serve as the Rosetta stone for the Indus script...
Super News Video
Vanakam! --You two are simply beautiful. -- I really love all of these very calming presentations -- Tell us a little about Sanskrit and the development of the Indo-European languages please!
Malayalam in Kerala and Tamil in Tamil Nadu have no connection whatsoever to Sanskrit, correct?
I am Irish born and raised. We have Gaeilge (Irish) as well as using English.
நன்றி வணக்கம் Nanri and Vanakam!
Malayalam, Tamil, Kannada and Telugu don't have same origin as Sanskrit.
BUT, it is not that they don't have any connection at all. There are many lexical connections between Sanskrit and Tamil, Telugu, Kannada and Malayalam.
I became passionate to learn the ancient civilizations around the world from beginning when humans began the written language because Egyptian hieroglyphics not know what the symbols meant until Napoleon brought a linguist on the military campaign against the British with the Rosetta Stone found then brought back to France with another linguist finally understood that stone with Greek and Latin with corresponding Egyptian hieroglyphics thus History became my passion because archeology digs never stop digging lower and lower because the new built upon the population that occupied along the rivers for trade and fresh water required for all animal and plant life including bugs. India has the oldest civilization of mankind that the West doesn't want to acknowledge.
Thanks
Thank you!
The one thing that is clear is that knowledge and understanding of both the past and what future beholds is ever evolving. Keep an open mind - we are all rich for knowing it and not for claiming supremacy one over the other.
Some north's shouting in comments
That from north brahmi only Tamil brahmi or tamizhi have been evolved.
It is like saying motor cycles evolved to simpler form of bicycle by removing the complex engines and then human tried to forgot wheels and then learned to walk. 🤣
Every one should accept the truth that Tamil is the ancient language still living and every one in India should be proud for that.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 well said... ego is the matter here... north people never accept that tamil is oldest.
@@balajipandian2147 tamil is oldest bruh.
@@Deepak_Dhakad so sorry my dear brother.... most of the people know that. But refuse to accept that. Edicated people and the people who are accept that tamils are also indians will agree the truth like you.....!!!!!
@@balajipandian2147 Sanskrit is a Indo European language
Don't forget that Sanskrit did not attested a written script until 1st century BCE onwards
@@balajipandian2147 why will north Indians never accept?
I think the hate/lies in SOME Tamils, invented by their own people against north Indians for (Dravidian) political purposes, have been believed.
First, you create an enemy of your own countrymen, coz some troll says something on social media, propagates it like the whole of north India says that, and then spreads hate.
I have seen nothing but hate for north Indians by SOME Tamils. and I have seen MANY north Indians being extremely accepting that Tamil could be India's oldest language.
It just feels like you want to create enemies so that you can feel better about yourself.
The EGO seems with Some Tamilians.
According to linguistics , sanskrit is a indo iranian language, where as south indian languages are part of dravidian language family. Please do a talk on this topic too.
Please remove the "notifications sounds" throughout the video, it is really annoying while watching the video; otherwise the content is really good. Thank you very much!
I have given the clue to decipher the Indus script to Mr Balakrishnan IAS quite recently in a phone conversation. If he follows with available resources it WILL BE DECIPHERED.
All dravidian scripts originally did not have stress words like Kha, Gha, Cha, Jha etc. Where as the same old script has been retained in Tamil, other language scripts epecially Telugu script gone into reformation by adding a lot of stress letters similar to Sanskrit. This was necessiated when writing sanskrit slokas, scripts, suktas in telugu script for proper proununciation. By this addition of stress alphabets in script, it helped to translate and write perfectly in telugu script, many Sanskrit slokas, suktas, vedas etc to maintain the pronunciation similar to Sanskrit. It is presumed that Vedas are specially sound based rhytematic chants and need a perfection to learn them as they contain Mantra Beeja. Any misproununcation and change in rhythm and kramapatha (regular sequence) leads to nullify the effect of Mantra. Thats why there are many additions to the scripts to accommodate different sounds.
Dravidians and tribal people are the real descendants of Harappan people. Aryan destroyed the remainings of Harappan civilization which was already declined.
Just because Dravidians are descendants of Harappan doesn't mean they have any special rights to India. Even before Harappans the great Andamanese people came from Africa to India and became its first human settlement. You bloody Dravidians displaced them and sneakily removed all their culture and languages to establish yours as the dominant one. Aryans came peacefully, you tribal Dravidians didn't. Aryans didn't destroy anything, Aryans continued the civilization of Harappans with their own knowledge and humility towards the Indian culture. That's why in Hinduism, Dravidian God Shiva has same place as Aryan God Vishnu. Aryans came after Tamils but they were whole heartedly accepted both by Tamil Thaaye and Bharatha Matha because they brought natural unity and enriched culture to whole India, which Tamils couldn't bring from Zagros Mountains of South Iran (their place of origin).
@@nilipertamaprakoso4156 bro doesn't know history, neither he knows science.... Bro only knows ideology and religion... So u r saying the andhamanese and dravidians are different? But dna results says the other way... 😅... Andhamanese and deaviduans, especially thamizhilians are same people. They just developed in differently because of the division of the land mass... Ams we dravidians have more genetic resemblance with the africans.... So bad that u ignored this fct 😂
@@whoops0 Sis doesn't know history, nor science nor ideology nor religion and nor how to spell names and speak with people haha. I respect you though, you are just a tribal with no civil sense...I can't blame you.
Andamanese are 100% different from Tamils. Andamanese have totally different genetics from the South Iranian Dravidians lmao. Just because you are black skinned like them doesn't mean you and them are same. Otherwise we have black skinned people in UP and Bihar also, does this mean they are Dravidians? ahhaha please don't make us laugh.
Andamanese are original inhabitants of India who came from Africa.
Dravidians came from South Iran (Elam region nearby Zagros Mountains) and brought farming and bloodshed to India by displacing the Andamanese-type people from mainland India.
Then Indo-Aryans came and peacefully settled with Dravidians, mixed their language and culture with them and brought the glory of Sanskrit and Hinduism to whole India all the way to Tamil Nadu and even Sri Lanka.
@@whoops0 also; what is this 'AnDHamanese'? The 'h' rule doesn't apply to English words silly. Andaman is an English word.
Will you say 'Englandh' or 'Unitedh States'? Stop behaving like illiterate and learn to spell names first, then talk to me about history lol.
@@whoops0 well look at odisha people from odisha are a mixture or Aryans Dravidian and tribal people they share all the blood same with Aryans they didn't force other they grew together.
This is a superb series - knowledgeable, fact-based and clearly presented.
Thanks for about Tamizh ❤️ .. Most of Tamils Hatters here in India 🇮🇳
Well it simply means people from Indus Valley migrated to different places…. And more proficient and socially acceptable language ultimately turns out to be most spoken…. Hindi became most spoken and easily understood, accepted language in last few hundred years…. And most likely in future upcoming centuries, English will become most spoken language in India eclipsing all regional language. People can’t swallow ego to understand, certain language are always going to be geographically bound. The only language that will prevail are non discriminatory and neutral ones….History will just show natural course of time not dictate future🙏🏻
It is evident that it isn't one language. It is an amalgamation of several languages. Brahmi(Sanskrit, Tamizh) + Iranian are some of the common links.
just throwing the idea around, if yu can identify the contents of the things kept in those pots using carbon analysis or spectral analysis and corelate the word used in old tamil for the things inside the pot, then use it to decypher the indus valley script as generally what you write on the pot is what is kept inside it for easy identification...
Tamil Brahmi (Tamil Nadu) and Bhattiprolu Script(Andhra) are different.
So, if Tamil Brahmi evolued as Brahmi and sent to North then Why between Bhattiprolu script have different script?
Tamil Brahmi script maybe oldest evidence and independent script for Tamilbut not transformed as Brahmi for Prakrit..
If it is really transformed we could have get those evolutionary changes due to mass usage of that script particular
+Even telugu and kannada dont use tamil brahmi script but how can prakrit used tamil brahmi?
+funny part is linking tamil Brahmi with 2500BC Indus script with 500BC Tamil Brahmi script
(My question is why script not evolved between these years?)
+Indus script is dead but Indus civilization have connections with Indian sub continent societies
This assumption that simpler script means older than sophisticated script is a garbage theory. Then, the current Tamil containing only 18 consonants is older than much elaborated scripts like Brahmi or Grantha script? The famous neutral indologist Harry Falk, wrote that these findings of earliest supposed inscriptions are not Brahmi letters at all, but misinterpreted Megalithic graffiti symbols, which were used in South India for several centuries during the pre-literate era. Falk considers these reports of Dr. Rajan as "regional chauvinism" just like the Sri Lankan claims of their island being the origin of Brahmi script development from Anuradhapur.
At the end of the day there is really no point in arguing about which came earlier. In all likelihood, everything got mixed up as people interacted all over ancient India. This is the same as arguing whether Mesopotamia or IVC came earlier, only to be discovered that people across these great civilizations inter mixed quite well.
Exactly i dont know why southies and northies arguing over this silly things. But this hatred started by northies and other southies who claimed tamils as sudras so now they are giving back
India's civilization started from south. Oldest part of the world is deccan plateu. Civilisation spread from south to north and not from north to south. Science will prove this.
So what about indus valley civilization
Egypt is older. Don't let ideology get into the way of science
Why start in South India? You could say it started in Ceylon, or even in some mythical continent (Eelam) in the Indian Ocean which has disappeared from sight.
Lol, I love how shamelessly anti-Indian and racist Tamils immediately start hijacking the name 'India' the moment they show that Tamil is older/more ancient than anything from North. But otherwise they will keep crying for separate country and stuff.
Even if it is proven that Tamil is older than Sanskrit, Sanskrit would continue to be respected as is and we'll continue to pray in it and consider it out civilizational gem. Tamil will also get respect, but at the same level it gets today. Just because Tamils is proven to be older doesn't mean it gets any special treatment over other Indian languages.
Now keep crying for separate country...we are not even gonna give you that even if you make an Indian LTTE.
Deccan plateau is called older because of the Indo - Eurasian plate Collison event.. read books dude.
Wish the best . To make video on korkai.
Please consider my proposal.
We need 3rd part on Adhichanallore findings and oldest ironage settlement Mayeadumparai findings.
Quite informative video
Can u do one for Aryan theory?
Hasn’t that been debunked multiple times?
Forget the Aryan Theory. Try Aryan Practical, just take a DNA Ancestry, results will tell you how much 'R' haplogroup(Aryan/Steppe) presence in admixture.
All ancient cultures trickle down in South...where they get frozen 🙂
Ikr?We have everything here - Vedic stuff, pre Vedic stuff, everything.
@@eshwarprasad524 yes & better than north culture 👍🏽
@@shubh1754 we dont hate you. You are a part of us how can we hate you
@@shubh1754 isme hate kya hai....sach hai ye.
@@shubh1754 ASI didnt give TN gov permission to do the excavation ,plus ASI transferred amarnath sir to north east ..... no ncert history books cover us, union gives more funds to dig illusion river saraswathi , but for keeladi civilians share their money .... etc etc
so its natural for common tamilian to be little harsh bro
Tamil❤
which application used to edit videos and from where picture are taken
Waiting for new videos
The present day tamil alphabets is the simplified version developed by Veeramamunivar [Constantine Joseph Beschi]. He simplified the script to adapt tamil to print it on paper. Prior to that all the other sounds [kha,pha, etc,,] had their own alphabet. The present day alphabet group [Uyir and Mei] is the simplified version derived by him.
You idiot. The language Tamizh is always having two hundred and forty seven letters. Those unnatural Kha, pha, dha sounds are not belong to Tamizh. They belong to sanskrit.
History left the chat😂
@@whoops0 😂
Heard about Tholkapiyam?
Dint ashokas inscription mention that he could not invade the persistent tamizh lands ? 🤔
The Indus Valley Civilization with 5 million inhabitants ended in 1900bc more likely evacuated and migrated to southIndia.
The pots likely had initials not full names scratched on them. Hence it looks like graffitti. This practice is still prevalent today where people gifting metal vessels and other artifacts have their own and/or the receiver's initials engraved. Serves the simple but important purpose of identification. In a lot of ways not much has changed in the last 2500yrs!!
The argument that Tamil Brahmins may be older to Ashokan script is convincing.
But I am not convinced abt the antiquity of Tamil Sangham literature.