Are Video Games Literature?
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
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I'm a Videogame Designer and a Booktuber, so this video was pretty interesting to watch :)
Videogames ARE ART, that's a fact, to create a videogame I have to draw, I have to create characters, landscapes, animate the characters, we have to CREATE an history, just like authors do, and that's some of the things that make us artist, so when people say videogames are not art, it freaks me out, cause they don't know all the artistic work we do!
So, Videogames are not Literature, but are ART just like Literature :)
PS: I love your eyebrows, am i weird? hahaha
I don't think video games are literature, but some games contain literature. The Ace Attorney series is a great example. It's basically a playable graphic novel. Overall I don't think games are even attempting to be literature, just a new form of art.
i think that video games are more of an art form than literature personally. For example a painting can tell a person a story, but I wouldn't call it literature. There is a great documentary on netflix right now about the evolution of video games from when they were first created to now and its future as an art form. it touches upon how now some video games are now these really complex stories these days.
What's the documentary called?
Angelica Cofer Video Games: The Movie
Video games these days have such a great story. But you'd have to pick one that has one. There are so many crappy games out there and if you only ever played Flappy Bird or Candy Crush of course you don't fully know what's out there and how Important some games could be to someone, because their story affected them so much.
And Ariel you said in the video that everyone these days can make a game, that's not fully true, you'd have to learn at least the basics first to do so, and that applies to book writing as well. I'm not a good writer but I could write a book as well. There are so many publishers out there these days that it's a lot easier to get your book published.
People can do a lot of things now, because there are way more opportunities. If you're going to make a game for the first time and you don't know what you're doing it's probably going to be crappy, if you're going to write a book and you don't know a lot about writing it's going to be a crappy book.
I just think video games can be very meaningful and important sometimes and they should not be written off by people just like that. There's good and bad in everything, you can pick up a really terrible book as well, just like you can pick up a really terrible game. Both of those, books and video games, have really great stories in them if you look for it though.
bebravekatniss Right, but how do you quantify or qualify what's good and what's bad?
well I'd say "bad" is a game like "grass simulator" (you do literally nothing but watch the grass) and good would be a game like "The Last of Us"
but yeah everyone defines good and bad differently.
Video games, in my opinion, are not literature, but some video games do have literature in them, if that makes sense. There are a lot of video games nowadays that have stories in them, and I count stories as literature. Games like Minecraft, The Sims, and Super Smash Brothers are not literature and do not have any literature traits, but games like Spyro the Dragon (specifically Year of the Dragon), The Last of Us, Beyond Two Souls, Heavy Rain and more video games that actually have a story to them are not completely literature, but they do contain literature.
I don't think it can be literature, but I think it can be art. I think the same thing about films. To me literature is the written or spoken word. I also think there's a difference between the writer/reader relationship and the creator/player one. In literature there is a large element of interpretation. You read between the lines, you picture the characters according to your own experience. In a video game you are always limited by what the game allows you to see and hear. The focus is more on problem solving (which can only be done in the ways that the game allows) rather than imagination. Both have their merits and use different thinking skills.
Videogames are not art.
the thing about literature is not only a written work. it does not always have to count just because it is a well structured work tho. it CAN be a game or even a speech 🤷🏽 but i do get your point :)
I believe video games ARE a source of literature - I mean, I play RPGs and I love books. RPGs are basically stories in which YOU control the character. There is a story there and it's amazing how some of these stories can make my heart wrench just as much as books. Sure, it's a team effort but without it, it'll take years for one game to even publish - if any since there's the writer, the graphic designers, the artists, just everyone collaborating to make a single awesome entity.
A few recommendations for you, Ariel: (They're all for the PS3, I really hope you have one, because we're talking about DIAMONDS here) :
*1) Journey*
This game, in my opinion is the most accurate representative of videogames in the art community. No dialogue, no tutorials and pop-ups. Just the amazing soundtrack, the stunning visuals and and a storyline that every person perceives differently... If you don't have a PS3, I strongly recommend you watch a RUclips walkthrough (without commentary) at least! The whole game is less than 2 hours long and trust me, you won't regret it.
*2) Heavy Rain*
This game is like a movie and the best part is that every action and decision that you make shapes the course of the story. Consequently, the ending is different everytime you play. It's a great example of an "interactive novel". it takes around 3 or 4 days to finish playing it.
*3) The Last of Us*
This game is amazing: The soundtrack, the storyline, the gameplay and the actors' performances are flawless. The protagonists and the ending will stick with you for a long time... A beautiful experience.
Videogames are art, just the way movies are art. Let's not forget that when movies were just starting to become popular, they were also considered as "fake" art. No one believes that anymore, because it takes time to accept change, and in the meantime, cinema had the chance to prove itself, by giving birth to some amazing movies that are considered masterpieces today. Videogames are going to be accepted as a form of art, but it will take some time. The videogame industry is still new to the art world, but it has already given us some amazing games that critics see as art pieces. It's a promising art form, and I think the best is yet to come! :)
I think you're totally right! Video games offer us entertainment. Literature, on the other hand, makes us wiser, well-educated people. The difference is really conspicuous after all !
Beautiful video! I never really thought of this before, but you brought up some intruiging and wonderful points.
I wouldn't call video games literature but definitely an art form (popular culture is catching on to this, as shown in the MoMA's acquisition of 14 video games).
Ooh, really? What kind of video games did they select for their collection?
I can't remember all, but I know Pac-Man was one of them.
Classic MoMA.
#justMoMAthangs
Duplicitous sorry to ask but whats Moma? Whats portal? What are u guys talking about? Just curious sorry I dont know things
Yes, why not! :) I love the loosening of word usage with poetic license; I think it expands our minds to be able to rerrange categories like this. I love the idea of video games being their own kind of 'literature', and paintings and films being their own kinds too. The literal definition is 'any written work', also extended to include some spoken or sung text. I see literature as more than one thing: the literal definition, and a more expansive interpretation that spans art, conversation, and events. What a great topic, I love this video and I'm glad you brought up the question. :) Nice work.
This video made me think of the Telltale games, specifically The Walking Dead ones that bring me to tears every time I finish an episode. It doesn't feel like a game to me because I'm so brought into the world, the story, the fact that I must react and pick one of four dialogue choices, action choices, the fact that I will get a different ending than other people do... Games are evolving to the point that I don't even know what they are other than art and specifically with the Telltale games, the writing that is required to put together that story makes me feel like that's every bit as much literature as any novel I've ever read has been. Great video, Ariel!
It's all I was thinking of too! Especially The Wolf Among Us as it was adapted from part of the graphic novel series Fables.
Ariel,
Wait what.
? :)
Super old video, I know, but I want to add something:
Whether video games are literature or not, many of their stories are worthy of study, much like we do films these days. They can be a powerful storytelling medium, like novels and films, and can be analyzed in similar ways.
Also pointing at your example, "Gone Home", it is true you cannot affect the outcome of the story, but you can control how deeply you explore it by spending more time finding clues in the house. The order in which you discover these clues also alters the playing experience. These things make Gone Home an interactive story.
Interaction is not only about changing the outcome, but about how you experience the outcome, as well. And I believe that has value.
You are always so insightful Ariel and have the most interesting point to discuss every time without fail!!
A new Ariel video
God damn i love your videos Ariel.
Super interesting discussion Ariel!
"Just entertain this, as a thought experiment. If a hundred artists create art for five years, how could the result not be art?" - Tycho (Penny Arcade)
I love the way you talk
Love the nintendo 3ds Zelda limited. I also have one. I also got my bookmarks yesterday and I love them. They are in the next 6 books on my tbr list.
I agree with your arguements. The similarity in all medias is that there is always a story. But does that make everything a book just because it has a story behind it? It does not. Everything is just trying to do its own thing, to not live in the shadow of the ones before them. Pretty much just like us humans and trying to escape living under the shadow of a family member we're compared to a lot, a classmate, co-worker, etc.
I believe we make things more complex and confusing than what they naturally mean to be.
I did my capstone on the Mother series. They're definitely literature.
I just loved every word you said.
This video is fantastic! So many things to think about, so many questions to ask. Never stop wondering!
I love these discussions😻
Omg I love your necklace!
I just wanted to say I absolutely adore your discussions! Your mind works in such a unique, captivating and profound ways and I'm always thoroughly impressed.
You are awesome Ariel. It was amazing. All you discussions are mind blowing. Tnx for making these kind of videos.
I wouldn't call video games "literature", but I could call them an art form. I mean, I could never make a video game. It blows my mind that it's even possible. That someone can create code that tells a character in a game to do ANY and EVERY possible thing, so that the player can do any and every possible thing. Books win awards, and movies win awards. Movies win awards for music, and cinematography, and acting. Video games are definitely an art form that need to be recognized. They are fun, and interactive, and have great graphics, fun story lines, and exciting plot points. Video games are created with lots of hard work, and it's definitely something great. Not literature. But art. Sure.
I was talking about this with someone one time. There’s so many indie games that are story based and so games can teach people along with books.
MARY-O PARTY
Ariel, have you ever watched the RUclips channel PBS Idea Channel? I feel like you would really like their videos. They do stuff that's kinda like this, and a lot of people think that they over-analyze things, but they have some really great discussions on a variety of topics, and the host is just SO LIKEABLE.
Food for thought, man! What I guess I keep coming back to is the idea of taste in this video and the assumption you point out at the beginning: that we sort of take for granted that, for some reason, everyone thinks literature is better than video games. But there's literature books and then there's general popular fiction - people don't often see the DaVinci Code or Nicholas Sparks as "literature" but the form of text on a page in a codex has potential to become literature, if you write a certain genre and do it "well" (whatever "well" even means, Bourdieu and objectifying cultural capital blah blah blah). I'm not a gamer at all, I never have been, so I know nothing about this really (derp sorry), but as far as I know, there isn't really a video game that the general public accepts as on the plane of literature (yet). Ie/ though film and art are different modes of story telling and reading, people respect Rothko and Kubrick as equivalent artists to Nabokov and Eliot - just different mediums. I'm not sure if there's a name from the video game world that could also occupy that tier. But there could be, maybe not now, but in the future. (and imho, I do think in a few years, video games will be at the MOMA or in libraries - already there are people in English departments writing on video games).
I think a useful comparison here could be comic books. Like video games, comics are a derided form and a largely dismissed genre (or were, rather, though the general sentiment of 'they're not *real* literature' is alive and well), but over time, comics became more legitimate and accepted as a form of lit. Chris Ware (who wrote Jimmy Corrigan) now occupies space in the New Yorker alongside Miranda July and George Saunders - I don't know if that kind of level playing field has existed for too long. But maybe something similar could happen with video games. They're still such a young genre - they've really only existed for a few decades. But in time, they might become more legitimate.
- Though becoming legitimate - what does that entail? Does it mean losing what makes them fun and accessible? Becoming serious and "ARTISTIC" (MASSIVE AIR QUOTES HERE) in a way they weren't before? Because a lot of seminal comics (like Civil War) are classics to comics nerds, but that shiz does not invade the New Yorker. How will this genre be pressured to change, in order to be respected?
Anyway, one last thought: choose your own adventure books are a lot like video games. Also, the codex itself isn't super far from the form of a game: you can mark your spot (save your progress), you can use cheats and skip ahead (but you'll miss out), you are kinda forced by the form to use a certain pace either reading or playing.
There's a lecture by a book historian named Peter Stallybrass here where he talks about the shift from scroll to codex and argues the codex - how it stores and relays information - is like a computer.Could be a neat way to argue video games and books are similar - throw out the taste stuff and just talk about similarities in form and function? vimeo.com/14679034
Watchmen was considered a novel by Time magazine, so comics are considered literature(not all, but some)
Ah, keeps coming back to what do we respect as art and why do we respect it. Very interesting! I should read the comments section more often.
John Smith Yup. I'd add Percepolis to that (sp?), and a handful of other graphic novels. Plus comics are in pretty great form right now.
This video is so on point. I've been thinking about this a lot lately, the stigma surrounding video games vs. books. I'm an english major and I love video games as well, but I've been judged in the past for loving games as much as I do. I think your point about being a co-author is so interesting because I think its accurate for a large portion of the games on the market. Take RPG's, like Skyrim or Dragon Age, for example. These games allow for an array of decisions to be made from what role your character is going to play, to the person they're going to romance, and you get to make every choice. So wouldn't that make the player a co-author in a way? Video games probably aren't literature, but I agree with you that they don't want to be literature either. I think video games, much like novels and movies or stage productions, are a method of storytelling. Storytelling is the word, for me, that encompasses all of these genres.
Videogames are not necessarily a method of storytelling, in Dustforce for example, there is absolutely none. Though, it's a great game, with good visuals, soundtracks, level designs, gameplay! :]
Lily Iggy You must not have played or have seen anyone here on RUclips play The Last Of Us. That one has so much dialogue and story telling. Plus it has FANTASTIC visuals, character traits, voice actors, and a soundtrack that you could either listen to on here or itunes (pretty sure Itunes has it because I know you can get them on android devices). Plus TLOU has won over 240+ gaming awards. I reccommend you buy it! It is INCREDIBLE! If you decide to play it you should RUclips message me and tell me how you like it. I have reccommended this game to girls and guys that hate video games or haven't played it and they get HOOKED right from the beginning. Trust me you wont regret it. :)
ciera jackson I am very well aware of games such as TLOU, and I play quite a lot myself. I think you misunderstood my point there :)
OP stated that games are "a method of storytelling". I do agree that they CAN be a method of storytelling, TLOU and others being a perfect illustration of this aspect of the genre. However, a game doesn't need to tell a story to be good.
IMO that's the strength of videogames : they have many aspects which can make them good, depending on if you want a good story, neat gameplay, etc.
I don't think a game without story but challenging and fun to play is worse than a game with a great story : they're just good in their own category, though it's possible you prefer one category over another.
I appreciate the effort you put into promoting TLOU though aha
Starting a series on video games as literature. I studied Lit and language in college along with screen writing, film directing and Chinese language/history of all things, haha. I just favorited this vid. Super helpful and really drives home the point I am trying to make about gaming being the new end all be all medium. Its a second life or new intermediary experience. I currently work in Hollywood but I'm making the transition to game development, specifically VR/AR game development.
The Moldy Peaches? That's awesome, Ariel.
You remind me of Drew (MyToeCold) plus mermaid hair, PLUS books!!
.... I'm sold! Subscribed! :D
Alright, I have a few articles from my video games and literature course I took (yes, I really took one), but they won't link on here. The short answer is, yes, video games can be classified as literature. My professor pointed out that part of what makes literature, literature is the idea of immersion. Video games have this too. We played really basic text adventures which gave a few students some form of immersion, but others not so much.
A lot of games now have gotten much better with this because of their insane detail and desire to pull you in. More people get immersed in games like The Last of Use and Far Cry 4 because of how they're made. Especially, games where your choices really do have an effect on the game play. This is becoming much more common. You have a 3DS. So do I. I remember playing Pokemon growing up as a kid. I've even played older games as an adult. It's fun, but the new games for the 3DS are much more immersive and they pull you in.
I took this class a year ago so there's a lot I don't remember, but I know immersion was a part of it. If you want to look up some of the people we had to read, I have their last names the article titles. I scanned these out of books and made them into PDFs. I don't know how to link them on here, but if you want me to e-mail them to you, I will.
Gallagher-Rise of Fictionality
Ryan-Narrative as Virtual Reality
Manovich-Language of New Media
Montfort-The Pleasure of the Text Adventure
Steiner-A Brief History of Man and Algorithms
There was another one by Baudrillard, but it was dull. And I don't think anyone read it. It was called Simulacra and Simulations if you're interested. Just let me know if you want me to e-mail you the actual PDFs
Ariel, I agree with you. It is NOT Literature, because Video Games are their own thing. It is a new form of artistic expression. And just as in literature, movies and all types of art, you can distinguish the best ones from the comercial ones.
Love the hat! :) (the video is pretty awesome too) ;)
When I was younger I use to always look down on video games and how my brothers would always play them while I would read my books. Then one day my mom bought me a DS with a Pokemon and sonic Olympic game I fell in love with them because it told a story but I was controlling how the story went. Even though now I don't play video games anymore I can still appreciate them to this day. :)
I cannot stop thinking of Myst and Riven right now x) Those games are so amazing! :D
Ariel, there's a documentary called: VideoGames:The Movie, and it actually defines videogame as an art form along with giving you a history on it along with showing you how they develop games and their characters. I think you'd enjoy it. It's on Netflix.
Brilliant!
I think video games are texts, certainly, in the same way a piece of music or a painting is a text, and can be 'read'. I don't think they're literature, though.
I also think there's a huge intellect surrounding video games at adult level, and I feel much more uneducated around gaming nerds than I do around someone who, say, is an expert on Greek Literature. Also, the video game circle has all sorts of poisonous, sexist territory that I'm not okay with.
I think video games are smart, creating them is smart, playing them can allow people to access other imaginative worlds in the way that reading books allows other people! It's weird, everything is a narrative and sometimes we're writing and sometimes we're watching and other times we're the main characters and real life happens WHOOP.
Hey look at that long comment, lookachu provoking thoughts.
***** I was just acknowledging that the sexism in games puts me off getting involved in that community, it has nothing to do with why I do or do not consider it as literature. Apologies for the poor wording leading to your misinterpretation :)
***** Wow, I love that question! "Is the sexist behavior in books even more dangerous that video games, due to their high acclaim?" I think that's a really interesting thing to think about (even if it seems we're getting a little steered away from what candysomething actually meant). I tend to think that because of the respect given to literature, and literature always being, sort of impulsively interpreted, that such things like sexism are not as harmful (since they're constantly being called out, examined, and discussed). So then, other sexist things that aren't as well respected or looked at as closely seem more harmful, since the audience is receiving it with out analyzing or thinking too much about it. Although that's my view, I'm still arguing against myself in my head. What do you think?
***** Yes! That is exactly one of the things I was arguing with myself with: there is a lot of critical thinking and a discussion about problematic things in video games, and it's not fair to discredit that. And I found something you said particularly interesting: it's that when we read these classic and see racism, sexism, homophobia, etc, we (the royal we) brush it off saying it was "of its time," as if that somehow makes it acceptable. But then when we play video games (something undeniably of THIS time) we still EXPECT to see these things. Which, when you think of it, is kind of horrifying. And, at least to me, it seems like expecting it from new media is just as dismissive as expecting it from old media. Because, I've definitely had that experience of playing video games with a friend or somebody and saying "wow, that's incredibly sexist," and their response being, "Well, it's a video game, what do you expect?" And I'm not sure I can grasp how, in fact, that's different from being in class, making that same comment, and the professor replies, "Well, it was written in 1920, what do you expect?"
But the truth is, there are plenty of books from past times that do not perpetuate these regressive ideas. Same with movies, music, videogames, etc. So giving it a pass because "Well, what do you expect," isn't really ever helpful and, now that I think about it, is starting to sound a bit like complacency. So, I'm going to revise my opinion, and say that one is not really more or less damaging -- to condone it in classics, but not video games is still condoning it, and vice versa. The truth is that all of it, even the old books from a "different time" are still very much part of this time. Maybe Shakespeare whatever wasn't written in "this time," but I don't think anyone can deny that it's still very much part of our culture and still shapes it. And I agree, we shouldn't overlook these harmful morals in literature or in video games, or anywhere else for that matter. And, while we're at it, is still brings up what really "of this time" even means -- there's a whole discussion on what contemporaneity is happening right now that I've recently read a bunch of really interesting essays on.
So, yes, it's extremely interesting to think about, and there are so many different thoughts and questions that it branches out into. And I just want to say, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts with me! This conversation is awesome. You are awesome.
I would be interested to know what you believe to be sexist in video games or in video game culture. Most video games portray women as powerful and badass.
jess3336677 Not to answer for Candy, but the video game women that are portrayed as powerful and badass often get their power from their sexuality. Whereas men are never powerful BECAUSE of their sexuality, rather they are powerful and sexual as separate entities.
If you want to hear some more about this and other similar ideas and want specifics I'd say to check out Feminist Frequency. She talks about the tropes of women in video games and how they can be problematic.
Choose your own adventure stories? Is that a better link?
Of all the things you said, the one that struck me and made me want to comment was what you said about being a co-author. You said you didn't want to be a co-author when reading a book, which is a fair statement, but I wonder if you could stretch the term 'author' and think of yourself as an interpreter and participant in the book while reading it? I don't mean literally in writing it, but would you agree that when you read it through your own interpretive lens you may read it differently than other people might read it? Would that make you a sort of co-author because you are reading it in your own way and analyzing it? The author only has so much authority on what the text means once it is in your hands. Just a thought, very interesting video. As for are video games literature? I'd agree with you, no they are not.
Ah, great comment! It reminds me a lot of Barthes. Do you know him? He wrote "Death of the Author," which was a pretty revolutionary work of literary criticism that basically argues that once a book has been published it belongs to the reader, and anything the author hoped or intended doesn't matter, and the only thing that matters is what the reader gets from it. I tend to agree with that way of thinking, though not entirely. I don't think a book can every really escape its author: whether it's using biographical context to better understand old books or John Green giving interviews about his water motifs, I think the author's influence does stay there, and analyzing a book is almost incomplete without acknowledging (or at least trying to figure out) what was the author's intent -- I can't tell you how many essays I've written that were based off of "the author thought he was saying this, but he really ended up saying this." And that brings me to the idea of co-authorship. After literature is published, reactions to the book, personal attachments to it, reviews, criticism -- it all becomes part of that work of literature. Maybe we can call that co-authorship. Personally, I don't think I would use that terminology, but it's certainly an idea I can relate to. Anyway, just a thought on your interesting thought!
Yes yes yes! I had Barthes in mind while writing that and watching this video. While I don't agree with him, in that you can never fully escape the author's intention/biographical information/context, I think it's an interesting exercise to try and experience something without that knowledge. What happens when we read a poem without looking at the author and know instantly who wrote it? Common literary techniques, motifs, themes, dialogue- do these things characterize an author? Is it our job to notice these trends and point them out, associating them with an author, or to merely recognize them but not link them to the creator? This is probably off topic of Ariel's video, but I still find it so interesting to think about.
Hahaha, maybe it's off topic in a way, but the great part of her video is that it does bring up all these other great questions! Questions well worth thinking about, in my opinion.
And I'm so excited that you were also thinking about Barthes when you wrote this -- I feel so triumphant! :D And, on the topic of Barthes, and the questions you've posed, I think it can also hint at the problem with knowing the author and not really being able to escape the context of the work. A lot of times, especially in poetry, we tend to assume the author is the speaker, or that the book is, in fact, expression the author's direct views. And I do feel a lot of the time that's a fair assumption, but also, especially in classics where the author is super super dead, it's not totally fair to assume that just because the author loved cats, that the cat is always the hero and beacon of moral purity in every book he writes. Um... kind of a strange example I went for there, but you know what I mean! Anyway, yes! Ariel has giving us plenty of food for thought!
I absolutely completely agree with all your points, Ariel! Nothing else to add here, you summed it up perfectly xD
I believe to be literature you have to be a written work. But, I think that video games are definitely art and have great potential for storytelling. Video games are very different, and the important thing should be that we treat them as such. A lot of games tend to separate storytelling from gameplay, but we're seeing more and more games that are incorporating story elements into what makes video games unique, interactivity. While this is super cool, I don't think all video games need to be like this. Not all movies, books or visual art pieces are focused on being artistic and taking advantage of the medium and that's okay. There's plenty of room for that kind of game too.
all I can say after this beautiful discussion is that I hope to spot pass you one day. I'd totally share some puzzle pieces
AH! I am so glad somebody talked about this! I have been thinking about this same topic for a while. I think it is upsetting that games are completely looked down upon. I recently had to read a short book for class called Everything Bad Is Good For You and it talked about how video games are "lean forward" media and that they make us think. Video games can evoke an emotional response whether it be frustration or even sadness. Just look at a game like The Last Of Us (Which also won all the awards:) ). I agree that they may not be literature, but they can be analyzed and deserve much more credit. However, I do believe that there are also "sit back" games that don't require much thought or critical thinking. But I have wanted to make a video on the subject so maybe I should. I love your discussions!
Loved your video (in spite of some minor errors in the same). A video game may be regarded as literature- specifically if analyzed from a Bakhtinian perspective or by extending Linda Hutcheon's Adaptation Theory. In fact, my Ph.D. focuses on this aspect. Would love to see more videos in the future that expounds this notion from your standpoint. Regards.
Oh, what a good discussion starter! Personally, no, I don't think video games are literature, per say, because I see Literature as written word. I do think video games are an art form though, like music, movies, paintings, music videos, etc. It's unfortunate that video games have a bad reputation, because not only are they beautiful pieces of art and code but a lot of times there's under lying themes that relate to it's players on a deep personal level.
I'll be honest, I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to video games as literature before, so I don't really know if that is a current debate! However it's an interesting point about whether they have merit, and I think they do. When people view games as a waste of time they are sorely mistaken: they encourage critical thinking, problem solving, and the utmost concentration which I think has a great deal of merit! They are potentially an art form on some level, and shouldn't be sidelined.
I think I might understand the reference in the description and I love that.
It's common that people who are seen reading are treated like they have some sort of intellectual power over people who play video games, and I think that's absolute bull. I don't actually play video games, I watch people playing them because I have no talent in that area at all if it isn't Professor Layton or Animal Crossing, but it's got to the point where I'm sick and tired of people forming opinions on something they don't even understand properly. Video games can offer people the same escape we get with books. I get emotional over video games the same way I do books. And some video games or so beautiful and/or enjoyable that I can completely understand why they put the same money in to as I have with books.
I guess one problem I do have is the whole 'gamer guys' thing, but that's a completely different topic I'm not going to rant about because I'd go on forever. I've been called a nerd by people that play video games (shout out to my uncle and cousin) due to the fact that hey, I enjoy reading and they don't, but I refuse to remain bitter over it.
And I have no idea if this is related to topics you bring up as I haven't watched it just yet, but eh. Opinions, am I right?
What do you think of reading a book while you are listening to music?
video games and books are the best things
Are Video Games Literature? Hideo Kojima...enough said.
Thank you for an interesting video!
I agree in what you say about video games not being literature as such. If you were to ask "Are video games texts?", however, I would answer "Definately!". But then again, so is everything when you think of text as something more than just what is written.
CALL THE GESTAPO, WE'VE GOT A LIVE ONE HERE
From what country are you?
Just found you through Rosianna and I'm now binging throught your videos, and just had to stop myself to comment on this one, because it a topic too similar to something I've just read about in my Expressive Media class (I'd love to share it just in case anyone is interested, but it is in spanish).
The thing though is that the comparison made in what I read was between film and video-games, and a comparison with literature was something I've never even thought about. Contrary with what you said, the strenght of video-games precisely *isn't* narrative, isn't story - and that's the difference with film, and literature, and everything story-focused. Becase yes, there are many video-games that are narrative based, but as time passes and we start to discover the sheer possibilites allowed by video-games, these type of games are becoming less and less prominent and we're leaving behind these games that were basically an extension of film.
What makes games interesting, and so compelling, is their 'playabilty' in these sandbox games, and even when there is a central narrative involved we're more concerned with exploring the affordances the universe of the game is offering us. A good point in relation to this is how difficult - and often resulting in failure - it is when they try to adapt games into film, or even literature.
I'm not much of a video-game player myself, so I don't know how much of these hold true or even how universally applied this can be. I do know that most games I enjoy playing are sandbox games with little to no narrative, and that in many cases when I've been told about interesting narratives in games, I've never throught 'Oh, I'd like to play that', I usually just wish there was a film or book on it.
I never look at games for their narrative or even anything close to that, and I'd never call them literature - not because they don't 'deserve it' or they are less than that, but merely because I don't think that that is their focus or what they want to be, at least in video-games in general.
an issue definitely is how over bloated a vidgame can get, similar to movies. a massive team for a multi million dollar made for a movie/vidgame, unless there is a strong director the overall expression of the piece will get clouded. there needs to be a strong direction for any project really, whether there's a thousand people working on it or just 1.
@BooksandBabbles, videogames most certainly do teach people about themselves though, and it is an art form (art is expression). Admittedly, it does depend on what videogame. Even a mobile game Thomas Was alone is incredible at doing this in under two hours.
That's the beautiful thing about video games: they aren't just one thing! Video games are art(graphic design/the "world"), literature(the lore/storyline), music(the soundtrack/voices/effects), and interactivity(your role) all in one! The best video games also pose moral questions and reflect humanity when actually contemplated.
They're both art
I think they are because their are video games where it's inspired by a book like a visual novel video game.
What about games like Syrian where you can change what you do and what order you do them in and even if you doing all the different things? Very interesting video also, crash bandicoot on ps1 was like THE game of my childhood and cool hat :P
You raise some interesting points! Video games are, I think, more of an interactive form of storytelling, but it's yet to be taken as seriously as novels. On a side note, literary authors have tried to venture into the interactivity found in video games in the 1990s (I'm talking about hypertext fiction - although it was more of a failed experiment than a pioneering new genre).
It could be, there are video games of books (harry potter is one example). There's a lot of interesting video games, with wonderful stories, and books inspired on video games, like the resident evil books, so in a sense a video game is not literature but it could inspire or be inspired on it
Are vg (video games) artistic? Check.
Are vg philosophical? Check
Do vg have plots? Check
Are vg intellectually stimulating? Check
Do vg require studying to be fully understood? Check
Do vg have themes? Check
Do vg have lasting impressions that last generations? Check
Do vg require a sort of mastery to be created? Yes
Have you played Assassin's Creed?
Zelda as a new ethical literacy. It explains Plato's Tripart soul and begs the player/reader to interpret ethics in the moment of existential crisis. Also, since the main character is silent, Link could be considered the reader since he is "passively" accepting the narrative of the story/game. And I like Zelda a lot and you can map Joseph Campbell's trial of the hero onto most of the Zelda games. Nerdy ready/nintendo boy is a nerdy ready/nintendo boy.
I have been watching your videos for a while now, but because of the nature of this video I felt compelled to comment. Great video and a really interesting discussion, but Literature to me, by its very definition is something written and that fact alone makes me question whether video games are literature. Having a narrative, visual stimulus and plot line etc..(which not even certain novels have re.plot) makes me think video games are more akin to film. However video games are more a product of technological advances and the modern ages need for quick, easy and gratifying escape which is what film was back in the day. Personally I think to call video games art is a stretch, art is something,in my humble opinion, which question our perceptions but more importantly teaches us something about ourselves,which I do not believe video games achieve .Phew this is along comment, sorry. :D
That's an interesting perspective, but I think video games can question our perceptions (Monument Valley) and teach us things about ourselves (Mass Effect) through the choices we have to make in them and the way we choose to play them. And, as someone in the arts industry, I know there is actually a lot of literal *art* that actually goes into them! :)
Oh that is an interesting point, I never thought of that way. I am not a huge gamer, but I do enjoy them, so I can't really comment with much authority, despite my previous comment. ha. It is an interesting discussion and I love the differing opinions it produces :D
Maybe the way in which video games are qualified as art depend upon how they are used! For example, if the player gets something out of the game it can mean something to her, but another player could just find it to be entertainment.
Angelica Cofer Maaaybe... but I'm not sure that's a satisfying way to look at it. It completely removes the artists involved (storyboard artists, character design artists, environment artists, concept artists, etc).
Personally, I'm not too keen on omitting the creator from the definition of the creation myself... If I, as the viewer, don't understand a modernist sculpture, that doesn't mean it's not art. Or if I, as the reader, don't think The Handmaid's Tale is deserving of its 'modern classic' status, that doesn't mean it wasn't an influential piece of literature. I can understand why it's difficult for non-gamers especially to see video games as art...but I'm not sure that negates that it is. Especially since 'art' is such an amorphous concept anyway. Is art always visual and flat and static and on museum walls? I would say no; art is more flexible than that. I guess these are some of the very kinds of questions certain movements like Dadaism, Modernism, Pop Art and others were exploring.
((I say all this as an illustrator with artist friends in the video games industry so maybe I'm biased?))
Angelica Cofer Oh, but I agree that the same thing can be different things to different people, of course! But I don't know if those interpretations necessarily mean that it *isn't* whatever it *is*...yknow?
What about Text-Based Games, Choose Your Own Adventure, and Visual Novels? Are they literature or games?
I'm a metap gear solid fan. The game was considered argueably a movie and they tend to ramble on for hours. MGS 4 had two 90 minute cutscenes. When was the last time someone talked to you about Ray Kurzwiel's idea of nanomachines and the intelligent internet? Anyone ever play Metal Gear Solid and see what it has to say about nanotechnogy? I think in the end we aren't talking about literature...
We are talking about perspective and psychology, and culture as we relate those themes to each other.
Have you seen any PBS Idea Channel on RUclips Ariel? I think you'd really enjoy the majority of their videos and they have a video talking about similar things you are (:
I really like your discussion videos, yet this one really made me wonder about its purpose. Because for me, the question "Are Video Games Literature?" is like asking "Are Apples Bananas?" - to me, they both belong to the categories of art, entertainment and narrative media, just like apples and bananas are fruits. But I'd never even have thought to try and pass one off as the other - why would I? During the whole video, I had one question in mind: "What's so special about literature that some other form of entertainment has to be compared to it?" Because in my opinion, video games and literature are two completely different and yet completely equal forms of entertainment and art, and I was thrown off by the idea of placing one above the other by asking wheter one could be considered as a sub-category of the other. As you said in the end, video games don't even try to be literature, because they are a category (with many sub-categories) by themselves. Just like books, there are good games and bad games, some with a message, some without, some are long, some are short, some have a great idea behind them and are badly implemented, some have an incredibly simple concept and are still amazingly fun to play. It's all about what you pick up to read or play, and how you reflect on what you've just consumed.
Also, I don't think that a player can be considered a co-author in the game they're playing, simply because even though the game provides you with choices, they are still pre-defined by the team behind the game. The video game industry gets consistantly better at providing the illusion of the gamer having infinite choices, but in the end, everything is pre-defined. (Though I'm looking forward to No Man's Sky, because it seems like it's gonna provide so many choices that the illusion of free choice might be perfect) I don't think it's a bad thing that players can't freely choose what to do - they still have more choices than when reading a book or watching a movie. But the choices are predetermined by other people nontheless - just because it appears to be a freedom of choice, it, ultimately, is not.
Hi. Cool video. Your rhetoric is intriguing. I have subscribed to you. I hope to see more interesting videos from you.
That aside, I think the reason why people see vgs as lit is because their is narrative involved, but narrative is only 1/3rd a part f most games, but some games don't even have a narrative, so its not an essential component to what a game could be. However, like I said, most games have a narrative, even early games like Pac-Man, Galaga and Space Invaders. The narrative in these games are miniscule and simple, but its still narrative. Than there are games like Tetris, where, there is no narrative in the game, what so ever, and that is completely fine. Tetris doesn't need narrative to be a good game.
However, I wouldn't write off vgs as not literature. The lit factor, to me, comes from the involvement of theme, setting and plot in a form of a story, whether it be novel or script, and most of the time these are formed from a single mind. Now even though this may as well be the case for many stories, like I've said before, narrative is just one possible factor in mediums like theatre, film and vgs. You could say that literature is an ingredient to these mediums, but not completely defined by literature.
The Fallout series is definitely literature.
Hmmm... I'm honestly not sure what I think. Before reading the comments, I thought I would no doubt consider video games literature, but I'm seeing a common thread of video games as an art form, but not literature. Now I'm trying to figure out what divides art from literature, or if there is even a division between the two.
DnD is the most interactive game in which you are in the position to change and be part of the story.
As for myself, i like the idea of games like The Walking Dead. The point where we can trully make our unique experience through gaming is yet far away, but we can feel like part of the story.
In TWD, for exemple, even though you can make many choices through the game, you end up with more or less a defined outcome, but these choices have the purpose to pull you deeper into the experience, letting you choose some elements of the story, and making you, as yourself said, somehow a co-author.
Oh man! I have a limited edition zelda 3DS and I've ONLY been playing Animal Crossing NL! I got really excited when you showed that XD Can I add you? 0_0 lol
I don't necessarily think that I'd consider video games to be *literature* either at this point, but I can definitely see where they have room to grow into that category. I'm looking at it this way: books have become pretty interactive these days, what with fanfics and photoshop and discussion boards (like this one!), which, while not being canon, gives readers almost the same level of interactiveness that hitting RESET or reaching a check point on a video game would give players. Video games have a definite timeline/story arc, and eventually all players take the same actions to get to the ending. It's just in the middle you have some of that "choose your own ending" experience. I've never actually thought about video games and lit before, lol. Thank you for making this!
Hey Ariel, I just watched your "Is fan fiction literature?" video and I was very influenced by your "are video games literature?" video on there so I just wanted to collect my thoughts under this video. I want to comment on not taking fan fiction as canon. What I believe is that fan fiction gives you the opportunity to take the world, universe, characters etc. of the content and make it yours. You can take whatever you want from a book and surround it with what you want. It gives you all the power, you have a say on the content. I realized that it's just like a video game in the sense of not giving you a path to follow but giving you the choice, then you shape your story out of your choices. So I prefer choosing the fan fiction as canon for my mind instead of canon material. I don't know if fan fiction is literature or not. I do think it doesn't have to be literature just like video games don't have to be literature. I've put these two concepts in a one little cubicle in my head now; video games and fan fiction "the things that give control to you and they don't have to be literature". Thank you for discussing these with us, it was lovely to hear your thoughts and compare them with mine. I just love it when you make me think think think.
Nope. They're two different mediums. There is absolutely literary merit in (some) video game narratives and they have the power to explore stories in new, powerful ways, that doesn't mean that it is "literature"....but it also doesn't mean it is lesser. It's just a different, equally as effective medium which should be equally as respected. As for the less cerebral/narrative video games out there, I guess they could be compared to a lot of the crappy books there are out there. It kind of sucks that a whole industry could be judged on one facet of its whole and consequently packaged as "smart" (ie books/literature) or "unproductive, violent waste of time" (ie video games).
Games like COD and Mario are probably what people generally think of when they think of video games. I would consider them pretty light entertainment to pass the time and, on the scale of literary merit, I would rate them quite low for that. So I can see why popular opinion (if those are the types of games someone is basing their entire understanding of video games on) would lead people to assume all video games are like them and that video games on the whole are not on the same level as anything that could be considered 'literature'.
But I feel like there's the tendency to want to make video games 'respectable'/'legitimate' by rejecting the fact of what they are and can do in favour of relabelling them as something that already has that respect (literature) even though it's a different thing. To me, that's the wrong approach and means that people will never respect the medium of video games for what it is because all the 'more intellectual' parts of it get relabelled as something else that's seen as more high brow ('literature'), when really it IS that medium you thought was rubbish that actually has value and is just as intelligent as other traditionally respected mediums.
Not sure I agree with the multi-author suggestion, though. Not just because I don't think people generally scoff at anthologies and assume them to be crap because it has many authors, but because I think game studios ARE seen as the 'authors'. UsTwo (Monument Valley), Gearbox (Borderlands), BioWare (Mass Effect), Rockstar (Grand Theft Auto), That Game Company (Journey) - they ARE the 'authors'. (And they're damn good!) :)
The whole time I was just yelling at my screen
LITERATURE ARE WRITTEN WORKS
EMPHASIS ON WRITTEN
WRITTEN DAMMIT IT'S NOT WRITTEN
what about audiobooks?
melany momsen thats just reading written books. Source material was originally written
I agree with you to an extent, but playing Devil's Advocate: What about dialogue scripts in video games, if you consider gaming to be a platform, a stage and sprites to be actors telling a story, than can their scripts be considered a form of literature, just as Shakespeare's are? And going beyond that could their coded scripts, all the ones, zeros, and commands, be counted as a story written in a foreign tongue?
***** thats a funny way of looking at it, written in code. But some do yes, but theyre different storytelling mediums. This is Literature and that is Video Gaming. Why the need to label an entirely different medium Literature?
I think of literature as a part of the arts, and video games, while also part of the arts, are a separate category. It's like how Biology and Chemistry are both sciences but they're separate categories of science.
I consider video games as art. I don't know if literature but definitely art. I find them really fascinating, I mean.. There are those with incredibly stories and they allow you to "be" in that story, to play an important part. That, to me is priceless.
By the way, we have the same 3DS edition! :D
You should totally add some of your subscribers to your friend list ;) haha
Actually, video games are a evolved form of literature. At the begining they were only text like plays where we can chose the path that a character can or cannot take. An example of that is ¨Rayuela¨ by Julio Cortazar, and that is only one of I can think of. Then this stories changed with time becoming more visuals allowing us to become us an active part of them. Technically, they are literature, like all kind of story, the only difference is the way that we see it and the rol that we play.
Nice discussion :)
I couldn't help but comment on this video just because of the topic. I felt like I HAD to insert my opinion. Personally, I feel like video games aren't literature, yet are quite related. When I hear the word literature, I think of a book, or the written word to be more specific. But diving deeper into the thought, technically movies can be literature too, along with Tv shows, because of the fact that they are based off of scripts. Video games also follow the script format, making them literature in the beginning stages of their creation. But, in my opinion, video games morph into something that isn't really literature, because of their animated presentation and what not, yet they still keep close to my basic comprehension of the word literature thanks to their complex storytelling (personally, some of the best stories I have ever heard have come from certain video games). Yeah, I'm just kinda torn between whether video games are a form of literature or not; I feel like they should be but they just seem so different. I am leaning more to the not side though, sadly, so yeah. But I change my mind a lot, so idek XD
I don't think it is. However, I believe a strong argument could be made in disagreement. Such an awesome topic for conversation!
I believe video games will be like that in the very soon future. There are few little features in some games that indicates this is coming soon. I'm not a video game player or expert but i know about software and system development and i think the type of video games you want are kind of like what we call an artificial intelligent system, i don't know if there is a game that has been build based on such a system but i guess it could be done if the game have a great plot idea.
What i mean is, the idea exists and is possible but it hasn't been thought of maybe..!
vid games have literature in them, but they arent exclusively that. it's definitely a multimedia extravaganza
video games are different medium of art
When I was little, I didn't want to play games. I just wanted to watch others play. A lot of people thought it was weird but I just compared it to watching a movie. When I was older and decided to game myself, I favoured rpgs and games where the story interested me. It's an interesting medium to tell a story. Also there's many games where your actions directly effect the ending and others in the game if people are interested in directly efficient the story. But I agree, not literature.
Naked Came the Stranger is a novel written by 24 people.
Speaking of that independent genius, the creator of a widely popular game: Five Night's at Freddy's. Compare it, for example, to The Harry Potter series. Both have a large fanbase that the consumer(fan) can start to create their own works related i.e. fanfiction, fanart, ect. Both have plot holes and narrative that's widely debated and sparks creativity in the fans. Both use the internet. The internet has provided this sort of bridge between the creator and consumer. It grows as this mass of theories, thoughts, ideas, and dreams that anyone can use at their disposal. Books and video games are actually very similar but not exactly. I do agree with you on how they don't have to be EXACTLY the same. IDK i just felt really strongly abut writing this. just my rambles