I want to make it super duper clear my points about a potential difference in social circles/generations is just a theory about why Kimberly Gordon was so shocked and unprepared for the backlash!! Not saying that all people 35 or older are pro-AI at all, or that only younger people wear Selkie (I also stress this in the video). I know a lot of you are around her age and very anti-AI!! I just think the people Kim surrounds herself with likely are not of that mindset, and that if she interacted more with her wider consumer base she would have understood their political opinions more 🫡
I think this theory is actually really interesting because in America for a while there was not a lot of funding for the arts and that was when the millennials were in school. Then when we got funding for art in school again, it was gen z that was benefiting from it and most millennials had graduated by then. Learning art in school helps with critical thinking and problem solving. Also side note, I just looked up where Kimberly went to college and found out it was a college I am local to. This community college has some art classes but it is not a priority at all there. I am curious what her experience there was like and how much she had to learn on her own.
Honestly it reminds me of the NFT debate! Older people/tech people were so so in love with the moneymaking potential of NFTs and were so shocked when young people/art professionals were against it. I talked with a Google engineer about it in the heat of the NFT craze and he hadn't heard almost any backlash before I referenced it. Like it really feels like the pro AI group are in extreme bubbles and its super jarring for them to encounter someone who doesn't think it's ~the future~
Tech bro bubble is so real. They are all constantly trying to leverage the newest technology to stay afloat (or become the next big start-up) in that world that they don't have time or care to think about the ethics of those decisions until after they have made things. Social media is a great example, I remember articles around the guy working on Facebook algorithm realising how bad it was - not leaving his job - just making sure his children weren't affected. It's like the ultimate frontier of workers trying to break the class bubble and become capitalists. It doesn't matter if you are morally reprehensible because you will be monetarily rewarded.
In my opinion, NFTs could have worked liked commissions. I blame those stupid monkey NFTs due to the audience and how the creators didn’t pay the artist well.
As a 40 year old traditional artist (I do embroidery) I don’t really feel like AI has a place in art. I can see where it can be useful in coding and things like that but what makes art so special (in my humble opinion) is that a real human being created it.
it seems that only people who exist in a space away from artistry and especially spaces that value monetary profit are the ones that are no issue since it doesn’t affect them
I’m not an artist but I 100% agree with this take. AI can help us by doing tedious tasks, the ones that are a chore, the ones that take time AWAY from the time that could be spent making art. Using AI to make art instead of paying an artist almost implies that art is a frivolous and unneeded thing… instead of… one of the most human things we can do lol
You are so right about the generational divide on this topic. I am 36 and am constantly shocked that people in my age-group are soooooo pro-AI art. Wild.
Gosh SAAMEE, like…If you’ll pardon a lil soapbox-ing here: I get that we grew up on the cusp of a LOT of technological change. It gave us a hope and kind of optimism towards technology and what it could do to improve our lives. Some still chase their dream of “Scholastic Utopia” without grasping the true scope, true impact A.I will have (IS having) on society. Change CAN be celebrated, but it shouldn’t be without THOUGHT to consequences. Our Utopia is still out there, but we gotta question and reflect on how we’re getting there and for whom it’s for.
Yeah I’m almost 40 and I’m seeing a shocking amount of people in my cohort who dgaf about the ethics around AI art. That said tho, most of my actual friends who are of like minds on most things are also horrified. So it’s another “not all elder millennials” lol
@@r.coachman3499We have to be clear about what kinds of Machine Learning we are aiming at though (which is why I hate the term AI) because it is not all created equal. Being able to analyse millions of data points about insects or that compares millions of frames of sattelite imagery to find illegal logging that no human would be able to do in a life time - awesome. Stealing work, replacing already unstable work and flooding the market with even more low quality nothing to consume - awful. Machine learning itself is not unethical, but the way humans choose to apply it can be.
as an artist myself it feels like a slap in the face. what the hell am i paying for if I'm buying something made with ai?? barely any effort was put into those prints and it shows. art should be about the creativity and talent of real people, not instant gratification.
I haven't ever bought anything from selkie, but I reaally wanted to get one of their dresses someday. However, this situation has totally turned me off, and I will probably never buy from them in the future either. As an artist and a fashion designer I'm really scared of the use of AI in the future, and don't want anything to do with it. It should be a tool to help artists and other workers, not something to replace them.
I hate finding out when a brand that is generally plus size friendly, they always end up being unethical in someway. as a plus size, princess-dress-wearing-girlie I would have love to buy from them but now as an artist who is very anti-AI art I simply will not. this Valentine’s Day line would have been very cute if they didn’t use art from robots!!! (your hair is super cute btw!!💗)
Capitalizing AI art is so offensive to every single artist. It directly affects a group of workers who already usually can't live off of their art or commision income. I hope they listen to us and stop using ai art in their future releases
I think y’all made a really good point about the generational divide on AI. There is a big divide on it between older millennials and Gen Z when it comes to AI usage and why it’s a bad thing/why it’s not a content solution
I just commented that I don`t think it`s generational but fair point that it might be older millenials because I am on the younger side. My brother is literally in the zone where he is one or the other depending on the person asked (we are 2 1/2 years apart).
@Hopischwopi I am older millennial, in my generation it's more about wether or not you are an artist, or in arts spaces. Most artists hate ML (I don't call what is actually ML (machine learning ) AI, because it isn't making choices) and many in the tech industry believe it is a good thing. Those not in either tend to not understand the issues of ML so use it as a tool without considering the ethics of it. Much like any other technological adoption we have been handed throughout our lives. Ignorance and ease of use can do a lot of evil.
@@Jellibox thank you for that insight. Until now I had maybe played around with the AI stuff (I know not all or most aren`t real AI) but your comment made me reconsider using it at all. There is so much inspiration out there and many very capable people that I can pull inspiration from and support them by interacting with them instead of AI/ML/etc..
That makes me sad. I saw clips of their fashion show and it was genuinely so diverse. They had disabled models, plus sized models. It made me so happy to see.
You made some great interesting points on the specific intersection of AI with the fashion industry!! One of my biggest issues with AI in general, which is a common concern I see around, is whether the AI is trained on art that the company does not have permission to use, which further leads to your point of taking away work from artists (who are already devalued and underpaid)! Ty for the video!
ok, so that lolita transormation caused such a glow up!! (i also loved your style before that but maaaan i love it even more now) but yes, this generational thing is something ive also noticed! also such an interesting RGUMENT I HAVENT RElly seen being brought up, and in my humble opinion its quite valid!
I saw an interview with Duran Duran recently, and they were saying how great it was that they used AI for their latest music video, because it saved them weeks of time and having to hire loads of animators and I was so shocked that as so-called "artists" they couldn't see the issue with that. IMO AI should be a tool to do the menial jobs so we have more time to make art, not the other way round! I'm 37 BTW, I disagree it's an age thing because older people are more likely to have their entire careers destroyed by it and let me tell you, we are worried.
I like the analogy of AI being a tool in someone's toolbox. That makes sense to me. 🩷🫶 I use AI at work - examples might be: "can you clarify the tone of this message?" "can you break down my tasks into smaller steps so I can get started?" "can you give me another word for [blank]" "I need to write a company wide communication on [this topic], can you check if my draft is in plain language and using easy read formatting?" It's something that has helped me a lot with executive dysfunction, planning and straightforward tasks that otherwise I struggle with really bad on poor mental health days. ❤ I would never and am very against the idea of AI being art... it hurts my creative soul. The human introjection of self into art is what makes art so beautiful and AI could never do such a thing. 🥺🫶🩷🌸
I'm not a painter so I don't know how much weight my opinion has but it just seems to indicate... a lack of quality control at best and laziness at absolute worst. Like, if the animals on the prints are coming out with too many toes, it makes it look like a human is BARELY reviewing the work before it goes out. and the designs are not even complex at ALL😭a human could have easily done that
@@feelzyfeelz like, I guess I can understand how AI could aid artists with some more difficult/tedious tasks, but that tedious task should not be the literal art-making💀and nobody needed help to make THESE designs, sorry lmao
The discourse around the use of AI for art really reminds me of the discourse around the use of CGI vs. traditional media and practical effects in films. As a tool it can be helpful but it is easy to lean on it too much and lose the human element all in the effect to speed up production and cut overhead costs. It's a really fine line between making Jurassic Park and making Transformers.
Simply because I always try to buy secondhand on principle, I had definitely been on the hunt for a good deal on a Selkie piece that I liked. I tend to remove my feelings about brands when I thrift pieces because I’m more concerned with material, structure, and longevity (but equally so to all of that is aesthetics). However, there are some brands whose actions end up putting a bad taste in my mouth and I’m not willing to wear their pieces and advertise them (so to speak). I feel like the Selkie look is so distinct and hard to separate from the brand no matter how far removed on the buying chain someone is, so now I probably won’t 😬 that isn’t to say I know the exact history of each piece I already own, but since I know I can’t ignore it
My take as a 40yr old creative that has worked in traditional and digital media plus dabbled with AI: I’m not 100% opposed to using AI as a helpful tool in certain circumstances but I am very much against using as a replacement for actual making art and training AI with the work of artists without consent. I think that AI “Art” has already made a huge mess of the small business world, sellers using AI images have popped up everywhere from print on demand t-shirt and sticker sellers to people selling their AI created images to people to use for print on demand. Websites like Creative Fabrica are even offering AI generated images that their employees have made with their own AI instead of actual art. The worst part is that it’s so poorly done! However, I can see the point of view from the owner, hiring an artist to design the prints for your clothing is very expensive. Digitally altering an AI image to fit your needs is not only cheaper but much faster. And with digitally created artwork on the rise, the artist you’ve hired could possibly be doing the exact same thing (unless you know 100% they make a traditional piece of art and scan it in for digitizing) I think the problem with Selkie is this has cheapen the brand and is exposing that they don’t make their own products. Creating a “custom” design to be printed on fabric which will be used to make the dresses is fine, But I have problems with the sweatshirts, so many problems! The first being that they are selling them in the first place, they don’t fit with their brand. The mockup images were very poorly done, it’s very obvious that this whole thing was done by someone with beginner level skills. And again, getting an image printed onto a sweatshirt is not inline with the brand. Everyone and their auntie can easily sell t-shirts and sweaters with a picture on it. For a brand like Selkie, the quality needs to be more than good, with an outstanding original design and a reason to buy it over others. Sadly I think that the owner started playing around with digital art, got overly excited and jumped into using it before she really learned about everything involved.
This!!! Like I understand hiring graphic designers is expensive, but as someone commented on their IG post- there is plenty of free to use vintage dog/cat art available atm since the licensing is so old it’s now free use. Selkie could of used those images for this collection, but they didn’t because they seem to want to cut corners and cheapen their brand as you stated. Also it’s fair enough if a brand wants to cut costs and try to make things cheaper, but charging the same price or more for lower quality designs isn’t it, and it’s just going to drive away their customer base- because the whole point of Selkie is them being a sustainable, size inclusive slow fashion brand. If you take 2 of those 3 things away- you don’t have much left of what your brands foundation was built on. 🤷♀️
Thank you for talking about this! AI makes me really nervous, especially since my dad is scared he’s gonna lose his job of 25+ years to AI. People need to keep talking about how unethical it is for businesses to cut corners with AI
AI generated images shouldn't be referred to as Art and I think if we as a whole stopped referring to it as art it might slow down. I think as a tool for designing clothes, or getting an idea on paper is great, but using it to make the whole thing and then calling it "my art!" Is insulting. I think there might be something there with the generational divide on the subject. My BF is a total techhead and is in love with this AI "art" trend and I grew up and am still in the art community and I can't get him to understand how detrimental this is to the art community as a whole. We just had the SAG/AFFA (I know I got those abbreviations wrong) strike over AI in movies and Hollywood. This is quite literally jobs and people's livelyhoods on the line because people will cut corners to save a buck for subpar work. If people would actually use it as a tool and not to bypass skilled work to cut costs it would be great! But it's not. I love living in the time line where people are working long hours for crap pay doing menial labor while robots get to make "art" 🙃
I'm 35 and I feel the same way. Though I felt that way when digital art started coming out. I couldn't understand why someone wouldn't want to paint or draw with paper and fun mediums.
Been waiting for this video since you mentioned it in the ✨sunday stream✨ and it is finally here! Also oh my god that hair. THAT HAIR. God I love that hair And that outfit. Chef's kiss.
I think a great example of AI being used well in art is "content aware fill," where if takes what you the artist have already drawn, and fills in the blank with that info. I've accidentally flattened images before realizing I needed to adjust/transform something leaving a gaping hole in the middle of the piece, and content aware fill saved my ass so many times 😂
unless i'm mistaken i think that what they were getting at is a hypothetical program that analyses a person's previous patterns in order to streamline the design process? like not creating patterns from scratch or stealing other people's, but replicating elements of your own previous work. at least that's what i think pixie meant!
Waaaahhh I thought it was the younger generation that was super into AI! In my experience online, I'm 30, and people older than me were really against it because they have been professional artists. And all the AI artists I come across are in their early 20's, so I think we'd need some proper statistics actually on that. Because yeah the 40 yr old graphic designers and artists I speak to absolutely hate AI and actually sometimes have no nuance and so yeah just straight up hate it, especially because they do have their careers to lose as well. Where as I do think we need to approach the conversation with nuance.
i agree w/ you here, i think it just really depends on the spheres you are in online and that it isn't just one age group that thinks AI is good and the other bad 😅
I’ve loved the Selkie dresses for ages and hoped I could afford one someday, but use of AI has made me hesitant to do that now. I’m hoping they’ll change their design process in the future to reflect the wishes of their customer base. If this is a one time thing then I personally wont mind as much.
yeah as an illustrator I'm anti AI (not in every field, but for creatives in general). If I ever buy Selkie it'll be secondhand (because I can't afford the extra costs that come with shipping to the EU :') ) so I wouldn't feel bad about doing that (same with fast fashion). I'm definitely interested in seeing where they go from here. I just hope the drama doesn't escalate; results in more defensiveness rather than actually learning from their consumer base
I'm 34 and my politics are very closely aligned with your own. I was probably around your age when I started coming to an understanding of systems of oppression. But you've addressed this in the comments so it's all good. My views on AI are both simple and complex. I will probably never use it in my own art, I don't trust it, I believe it is a violation of the rights of artists and that it compromises our already narrow future. At the same time, I have a friend who is a broke, disabled mom in recovery who has been using it combined with RPG maker to create a video game. That process has been extremely healing for them and is not something they would ever have the resources or ability to do without AI. I support them 100% (and the game is great), while at the same time fully understanding that established companies outsourcing art to AI is an awful thing. I will always leave room for creators to do better but if it becomes a pattern, you've lost me.
If the thing with the inaccurate dog-paw anatomy is correct then that is absolutely WILD like then it’s not even just about the AI art, but also about quality control LOL And I think that’s where your point is super accurate. I am on the same page regarding the usage of AI pretty much: it can be a helpful tool in some angles but the way it’s used rn is a whole other can of worms LMAO but one big thing about AI is also that it makes mistakes and sometimes can’t tell mistake from good outcome apart (e.g. the inaccurate number of toes on a dog’s paw) so it needs human attention to control it and if that’s not something that happened here it is really likely that AI wasn’t used as a tool for optimizing a technical process but as you said maybe more as a way to cut corners and push more product out in a shorter amount of time 🫠 Btw absolutely ADORE the fit and hairstyle 💕🩵🌈 so cute
My boyfriend is a graphic designer and he loves using AI at his job. He says it cuts down on the busy work and allows him to quickly get lots of thumbnails to a client. He says it speeds up the creative process between himself and the client and that he's not wasting a bunch of time creating 50 thumbnails that gave the potential to all be rejected. Now he can generate ideas in an unlimited fashion and when the client picks out a few then he knows exactly where to go from there. Then he can tweak and draw by hand (well digitally/) all the details for the final product.
that was a very cool and informative video! I had never considered about one's generation within the AI discourse and I think you bring a very interesting point about it. Keep videos like this coming, so cool!! ^^
havent finished the vid yet so idk if u mentioned it but they also shared kat von ds post a couple days ago which is….. not good if you know anything abt the path shes gone down
I wouldn't say Kelly Eden because they would still get controversy or get memed on at least but I get what you mean though. There are plenty of vintage pet artists (in fact I got one done of my cat).
I watched this video while sitting in one of my favorite blankets, drinking water and calming myself from a panic attack. But it calmed me down and im doing and feeling okay!!!!! Sorry if this was tmi I thought it was fitting.
I normally don't like getting into internet controversy, but this was very interesting, I appreciate how you explained it from multiple perspectives! I'm an artist who just started fashion design so these topics are both so relevant to me rn. Definitely think we need to have more conversations about AI art and how it can be applied in the industry. I'm not completely against AI art but I don't think we need to get rid of jobs for working artists and illustrators. especially in the fashion industry 😭
I am turning 30 this year and I can`t say that it`s generational? Maybe? At least me and my friend group all fear AI taking our job opportunities or that AI could be a helper. Like as you said for maybe moodboards to inspire stuff.
I have a few Selkie pieces and I will not be purchasing from them before. My issue isn't only about it ruins the integrity of art, but AI art references and steals from artist's work without compensation or permission. I don't want to support a company that partakes in plagiarism.
It also seems like more companies are getting comfortable with the use of AI. I just saw a post about, correct me if I’m wrong, Square Enix using more AI.
Love your commentary style videos and hearing you share your knowledge on various fashion-related topics. Also you look like a pastel princess in this video and I love it
One of my small artists friends is 40 something and she HATES anything related to AI. She and other small artists in her circle have being severely impacted by it to the point that it has become almost impossible to sell and promote their art.
Something that hasn't been mentioned in this video is that using the currently available AI systems for anything is unethical. Not just for the computers taking jobs from creatives, but all the data that the AIs were trained on were obtained unethically. They were used without paying/asking the actual creators! I own a selkie dress (dream dress I've planned on wearing to every possible event) as others have commented, size inclusivity and at least an effort to be sustainable is so rare to find together!!! Really disappointing. Hopefully no one buys these AI ones and they quit using it.
Bringing up the the age thing is so weird to me. Because I don’t know anyone in their mid to late 30s or older that is for AI “art”, and even AI as a whole. But, okay.
I love and hate the ai debate as i am a photographer and i mainly focus on product photo retouching as my main career. I use AI as a tool to remove specs on images possibly people in the background of the images however i have had people mention to me that i should use AI to basically do my job for me which is completely wrong. I get paid to do my job and there will be a day that means that possibly i will lose my job and therefore i am pro using AI as a tool, i am not for ai being used to take away from those who need their job i am glad this debate has come around as i have been on the recieving end of people telling me to use AI that could replace me.
It's really interesting being a textiles major during this time. We have a clause in our program that states that we are not allowed to use AI at all. It is considered plagiarism at my school. I am in support of this policy honestly. That said, we do have a guest speaker coming to discuss AI case studies. I am interested to see what he says.
+Pixielocks *I dialed up the Selkie Collectionᵀᴹ, and the dresses are neo-Regency (GBR).* Stays over chemises should be mandatory, if I'm reading correctly. Probably the artist used AI for calibrating the Jacquard machines.
AI shouldn’t be in the artistic/ creative industries as it is now. (Maybe in the future with a different program?) The programs are literally stealing art from other artists to even be able to create the AI “art” to begin with. It’s actually really insulting to all the other artists and creatives out there, to use AI especially as someone who claims to be an artist and graphic designer herself- idk what Selkies CEO is doing honestly. Even if it is a generational thing, you’d think that Kim would know better being a professional in her field and I wouldn’t be surprised if she was the first person to call out other people for stealing her art and designs if that ever happened. 🤷♀️ If just comes off as her being lazy and trying to capitalise and profit from other artists without actually paying them for their work, and it really questions the validity of their other claims like sustainability and being a true“slow fashion” brand, as there’s been talk about Selkie firing a lot of their graphic designers (and only Kim being the only GD employee atm) and their quality decreasing from outsourcing to Chinese manufacturers.
The thing that most people aren't talking about regarding AI outside of certain parts of the disability community and some folks in tech is that AI is a very broad term for a variety of types of technology and AI technology has been used for certain disability access tools for quite some time. The type of AI that people are taking issues with in regards to the art world to my understanding is mainly generative AI data bases. Some augmentive and alternate communication devices use a form of AI. As well as some electric wheelchairs. And that's only a couple examples. It's really unfortunate that so many people are using it to make plagerized and not well done art instead of the focus on the ways AI is used and being developed into helpful access tools for disabled people. Because of the ways that AI is quickly becoming so harmful there's alot of push to make AI as a whole illegal. The problem with that is that it's going to result in some very significant harm to the disabled community.
I'm 37 and a lot of people around my age in my streaming community are all very against AI art. I'm not saying it couldn't be a generational thing, more just informing that there are us near that age group that are super against it.
I will say that from what I know, the main demographic who really popularized her work, bought it and interacted with it were young women between the ages of 18 to 39- and the main drawing factor was that the pieces were mostly marketed as originally crafted through design and production. It was that labor of love aspect that really gave her notoriety to women who might’ve otherwise not have known her- So by her stepping into trying to launch a collection with lazy AI patterns on polyester fabric ,while still charging a pretty penny…. She was obviously going to lose A LOT of supporters. Because to them, the brand is visibly losing its integrity and initial appeal to those who appreciate genuine artistry in clothing.
My opinion on Ai is if it's a helpful tool, that's great, but having the Ai do the whole thing, then it's not. It's basically like having someone else do your research paper then saying it's yours when you turn it in, but if you find the sorces yourself and use those to help write your paper, then it's still your work.
i think blanketly calling procedural image generation "AI" is the worst thing that happened to the conversation around this. artificial intelligence has been used for many years and has thousands and thousands of different uses from video games to medicine. AI does not always equal procedurally generated images and text. that being said, i think it all depends on the way its being used. procedural image generation has its uses in art, but, like you said, should be kept to the thumbnailing and brainstorming step of art, and shouldnt really end up in the final process. i appreciate kim being open about using AI in the products instead of passing it off as all her own. the debate is very heated, very reactionary, and there are very strong feelings on both sides. procedural image generation should be used as a tool, not as a substitute for creativity.
i have been wanting to buy from selkie soooo bad but this was such a turn off to me and i think i will wait to see if they take consumer feedback into account before i decide to buy anything from them. i really cant support the use of ai while so many artists cant support themselves 😭
As an elder millennial and 90's baby (I'm turning 32 this year) AI in art just makes me sad, considering it was trained with art that wasn't obtained ethically. If the art uses to train the AI was obtained with the artists permission or an artist was commissioned for it or compensaited for it, AI would be so cool as (like you said) a tool for things!
I love love love the way the selkie dresses look but I recently saw a lot of people talk about how the quality is not great (no lining etc) so I was discouraged from buying one, and then this thing happens.. 😬 The whole AI thing is very difficult to navigate because I'm sure that it can be helpful and useful in some ways, but also I feel like creativity is not going to be appreciated the same way in the future if AI becomes the norm. I've recently been looking for jobs to use my uni degree with (creative and professional writing and English language) and over half of the jobs to have anything to do with that are AI based 😕
Great video! Gen x artist, author, wifi tech support here... so lots of different angles. I don't trust most AI for a lot of reasons. I havent seen a generational divide with ai in person. your thoughts about her circle's influence are on point! I have have non-conservatives on both sides of fence. My art friends and techie ones feel like ai can be used in harmful ways... So many more things to say!
You look so so cute!!!!! Extremely fairy tea party coded. Also, it’s tough to boycott when I wasn’t already dropping $300 on a dress, but now they’re never getting it from me. I’d rather shop at a place local to me like Bonne Chance
I'm disappointed but not surprised. I agree there's ways to use AI ethically to help aid in the process, not replace. Let's hope that the conversation progresses the way NFTs did
I have a sweater from Selkie (no idea where I would wear one of those dresses lol) and I love it! so comfy and soft. I was hoping to buy a dress from them someday. If they learn from this and don't do it again then I would probably still buy from them in the future. But if they do what some companies do and just think they can get away with it and keep doing it then no, I will not be purchasing from them again. They have an opportunity to give business to some amazing artists, no idea why they would go with AI over that.
This reminds me a lot of when LS Dunes (band Frank Iero is in) dropped an entirely AI-generated music video a few months ago, their fans were pissed!!! I think the generational divide theory could definitely apply here too, those guys are all gen x (I think) and their audience is (mostly) younger people/gen z, and they also got defensive and stood their ground in the instagram comments. Really weird!!!! Anyway epic video as always Pixie I hope yous have a beautiful week :)
I do have painter friends who use AI for concept then paint what the AI generates after editing it. They also use AI generated captions to get engagement. Its very personal and controversial, but I just wanted to say its VERY common for painters to use AI now. (EDIT: they are all under 25)
In some cases, AI is great to help/assist. But that's it. Only to assist. Not to do the work for us. In terms of graphic art, I see AI used in the selection tool in photoshop, on fonts in Illustrator. And even to make mockups in Illustrator. That's great! I love it! But I'm not a fan much of the whole AI generative images they've made a thing on these programs.
I’ve ordered from Selkie before (from Australia so US/Canada might be different) but my item was shipped directly from China, unlike being made in China, then shipped to the US for distribution. Obvi doesn’t change the validity of all ur other points in this amazing and well put together video just wanted to put it out there on the environmental ethics side of things.
i agree with everything you said in this video. it's a shame because selkie's products are absolutely beautiful but this has kind of put me off supporting them, especially since their products are kind of expensive. like why would i pay $200 for a sweater with a six toed dog created by a computer? i think ai can definitely have its uses in something like healthcare, helping to detect diseases or something like that, but why are we trying to use it to replace the humanity and joy in creating art???
I own two Selkie pieces and it broke my heart to see them use AI. I will not be purchasing from them directly in the future unless they prove their prints were made by a real person. (I may purchase some older dresses secondhand, but no new AI ones.)
I am an artist and art teacher. I am excited for what AI /could/ be. I love the idea of having a program where I could upload my own art or the art of others that has been moved into the public domain so that I could use AI to help me come up with a new concept or composition. I would love to then use the AI generated images as a means to create real art, changing the sketching phase of creation into something new and different. As of right now, AI programs work off of databases that scraped the internet for artists and their work without getting permission, making current AI unethical. If artists were paid, gave permission to companies for their work to be used to train AI, then that would be so cool! Imagine the new ways that we could use this technology in the creative arts areas. It's all just terrible, at the moment, though. Edit to add my age: I am 32, so a middle-to-young millenial
I don't quite agree with the generational thing--in that, within art & design spaces, I don't think you'll find many Millennial or Gen X artists & designers who are okay with the broad usage of AI (&... there's really not the big divide you imply there is between folks in their 20s & 30s in online spaces). If anything, it'd be that those generations are also cursed with a higher density of Tech Bros who, IMO, are the real driving force behind disasters like this (see also: NFTs).
I am kind of against selkie because of their use of polyester in a significant amount of their dresses (I took a peek just now and their top 10 dresses on the home page still contain poly somewhere).This ai stuff brings them back down a notch from where incorporating nature fibres took them.
I have really mixed feelings about this as well because on the one hand I don't think we should be putting energy into automating tasks that humans *enjoy* doing and find meaning in when we could be automating tasks and professions that people should not have to do (i.e., professions that are dangerous, undesirable, poorly paid, etc.). However, I also understand that fast fashion companies especially would be stealing this art from small artists anyway, and it's preferable for them to AI generate something instead of doing that, so idk
this is a really interesting point, although i think it's worth keeping in mind that ai steals from countless artists including those with relatively small followings, so even if what it creates is a sort of remix of other's work as opposed to a direct copy i'm not sure that's necessarily any better?
I want to make it super duper clear my points about a potential difference in social circles/generations is just a theory about why Kimberly Gordon was so shocked and unprepared for the backlash!! Not saying that all people 35 or older are pro-AI at all, or that only younger people wear Selkie (I also stress this in the video). I know a lot of you are around her age and very anti-AI!! I just think the people Kim surrounds herself with likely are not of that mindset, and that if she interacted more with her wider consumer base she would have understood their political opinions more 🫡
I think this theory is actually really interesting because in America for a while there was not a lot of funding for the arts and that was when the millennials were in school. Then when we got funding for art in school again, it was gen z that was benefiting from it and most millennials had graduated by then. Learning art in school helps with critical thinking and problem solving. Also side note, I just looked up where Kimberly went to college and found out it was a college I am local to. This community college has some art classes but it is not a priority at all there. I am curious what her experience there was like and how much she had to learn on her own.
Honestly it reminds me of the NFT debate! Older people/tech people were so so in love with the moneymaking potential of NFTs and were so shocked when young people/art professionals were against it. I talked with a Google engineer about it in the heat of the NFT craze and he hadn't heard almost any backlash before I referenced it. Like it really feels like the pro AI group are in extreme bubbles and its super jarring for them to encounter someone who doesn't think it's ~the future~
omg the queens know each other !
Tech bro bubble is so real. They are all constantly trying to leverage the newest technology to stay afloat (or become the next big start-up) in that world that they don't have time or care to think about the ethics of those decisions until after they have made things. Social media is a great example, I remember articles around the guy working on Facebook algorithm realising how bad it was - not leaving his job - just making sure his children weren't affected. It's like the ultimate frontier of workers trying to break the class bubble and become capitalists. It doesn't matter if you are morally reprehensible because you will be monetarily rewarded.
In my opinion, NFTs could have worked liked commissions. I blame those stupid monkey NFTs due to the audience and how the creators didn’t pay the artist well.
As a 40 year old traditional artist (I do embroidery) I don’t really feel like AI has a place in art. I can see where it can be useful in coding and things like that but what makes art so special (in my humble opinion) is that a real human being created it.
it seems that only people who exist in a space away from artistry and especially spaces that value monetary profit are the ones that are no issue since it doesn’t affect them
I’m not an artist but I 100% agree with this take. AI can help us by doing tedious tasks, the ones that are a chore, the ones that take time AWAY from the time that could be spent making art. Using AI to make art instead of paying an artist almost implies that art is a frivolous and unneeded thing… instead of… one of the most human things we can do lol
You are so right about the generational divide on this topic. I am 36 and am constantly shocked that people in my age-group are soooooo pro-AI art. Wild.
Gosh SAAMEE, like…If you’ll pardon a lil soapbox-ing here:
I get that we grew up on the cusp of a LOT of technological change. It gave us a hope and kind of optimism towards technology and what it could do to improve our lives. Some still chase their dream of “Scholastic Utopia” without grasping the true scope, true impact A.I will have (IS having) on society. Change CAN be celebrated, but it shouldn’t be without THOUGHT to consequences. Our Utopia is still out there, but we gotta question and reflect on how we’re getting there and for whom it’s for.
Yeah I’m almost 40 and I’m seeing a shocking amount of people in my cohort who dgaf about the ethics around AI art. That said tho, most of my actual friends who are of like minds on most things are also horrified. So it’s another “not all elder millennials” lol
@@r.coachman3499We have to be clear about what kinds of Machine Learning we are aiming at though (which is why I hate the term AI) because it is not all created equal. Being able to analyse millions of data points about insects or that compares millions of frames of sattelite imagery to find illegal logging that no human would be able to do in a life time - awesome. Stealing work, replacing already unstable work and flooding the market with even more low quality nothing to consume - awful. Machine learning itself is not unethical, but the way humans choose to apply it can be.
@@Jellibox EX👏ACT👏LY!👏 YES!
My biggest problem with ai imagery is that it steals from other artists. That’s why it’s extra painful when an artist uses it, it’s a betrayal:(
as an artist myself it feels like a slap in the face. what the hell am i paying for if I'm buying something made with ai?? barely any effort was put into those prints and it shows. art should be about the creativity and talent of real people, not instant gratification.
Selling AI art is like selling instant coffee in a specialty coffee shop
"death of the sweetness of art" this, exactly
I haven't ever bought anything from selkie, but I reaally wanted to get one of their dresses someday. However, this situation has totally turned me off, and I will probably never buy from them in the future either. As an artist and a fashion designer I'm really scared of the use of AI in the future, and don't want anything to do with it. It should be a tool to help artists and other workers, not something to replace them.
I hate finding out when a brand that is generally plus size friendly, they always end up being unethical in someway.
as a plus size, princess-dress-wearing-girlie I would have love to buy from them but now as an artist who is very anti-AI art I simply will not.
this Valentine’s Day line would have been very cute if they didn’t use art from robots!!!
(your hair is super cute btw!!💗)
Capitalizing AI art is so offensive to every single artist. It directly affects a group of workers who already usually can't live off of their art or commision income. I hope they listen to us and stop using ai art in their future releases
I think y’all made a really good point about the generational divide on AI. There is a big divide on it between older millennials and Gen Z when it comes to AI usage and why it’s a bad thing/why it’s not a content solution
I just commented that I don`t think it`s generational but fair point that it might be older millenials because I am on the younger side. My brother is literally in the zone where he is one or the other depending on the person asked (we are 2 1/2 years apart).
@Hopischwopi I am older millennial, in my generation it's more about wether or not you are an artist, or in arts spaces. Most artists hate ML (I don't call what is actually ML (machine learning ) AI, because it isn't making choices) and many in the tech industry believe it is a good thing. Those not in either tend to not understand the issues of ML so use it as a tool without considering the ethics of it. Much like any other technological adoption we have been handed throughout our lives. Ignorance and ease of use can do a lot of evil.
@@Jellibox thank you for that insight. Until now I had maybe played around with the AI stuff (I know not all or most aren`t real AI) but your comment made me reconsider using it at all. There is so much inspiration out there and many very capable people that I can pull inspiration from and support them by interacting with them instead of AI/ML/etc..
That makes me sad. I saw clips of their fashion show and it was genuinely so diverse. They had disabled models, plus sized models. It made me so happy to see.
You made some great interesting points on the specific intersection of AI with the fashion industry!!
One of my biggest issues with AI in general, which is a common concern I see around, is whether the AI is trained on art that the company does not have permission to use, which further leads to your point of taking away work from artists (who are already devalued and underpaid)!
Ty for the video!
ok, so that lolita transormation caused such a glow up!! (i also loved your style before that but maaaan i love it even more now) but yes, this generational thing is something ive also noticed! also such an interesting RGUMENT I HAVENT RElly seen being brought up, and in my humble opinion its quite valid!
THANK U I love how this lewk turned out 🥺💕🌈
I saw an interview with Duran Duran recently, and they were saying how great it was that they used AI for their latest music video, because it saved them weeks of time and having to hire loads of animators and I was so shocked that as so-called "artists" they couldn't see the issue with that. IMO AI should be a tool to do the menial jobs so we have more time to make art, not the other way round! I'm 37 BTW, I disagree it's an age thing because older people are more likely to have their entire careers destroyed by it and let me tell you, we are worried.
Replying to boost this comment.
Yes to all of this. The age comment is unnecessary. It seems to be a job issue not an age issue as related to art.
The new heart bangs + side fringe + rainbie bun is *chefs kiss* so beautiful
I like the analogy of AI being a tool in someone's toolbox. That makes sense to me. 🩷🫶
I use AI at work - examples might be:
"can you clarify the tone of this message?"
"can you break down my tasks into smaller steps so I can get started?"
"can you give me another word for [blank]"
"I need to write a company wide communication on [this topic], can you check if my draft is in plain language and using easy read formatting?"
It's something that has helped me a lot with executive dysfunction, planning and straightforward tasks that otherwise I struggle with really bad on poor mental health days. ❤ I would never and am very against the idea of AI being art... it hurts my creative soul. The human introjection of self into art is what makes art so beautiful and AI could never do such a thing. 🥺🫶🩷🌸
I'm not a painter so I don't know how much weight my opinion has but it just seems to indicate... a lack of quality control at best and laziness at absolute worst. Like, if the animals on the prints are coming out with too many toes, it makes it look like a human is BARELY reviewing the work before it goes out. and the designs are not even complex at ALL😭a human could have easily done that
Yeah, did you see how blocky those sweatshirts were!? Like they literally slapped this image on the shirt and called it a day. 🤢🤮
@@feelzyfeelz like, I guess I can understand how AI could aid artists with some more difficult/tedious tasks, but that tedious task should not be the literal art-making💀and nobody needed help to make THESE designs, sorry lmao
The discourse around the use of AI for art really reminds me of the discourse around the use of CGI vs. traditional media and practical effects in films. As a tool it can be helpful but it is easy to lean on it too much and lose the human element all in the effect to speed up production and cut overhead costs. It's a really fine line between making Jurassic Park and making Transformers.
I feel like that comparison isn't really correct? AI steals art from artists, you can't really say that about cgi
@@Saturnm0ssYeah, I'd agree. CGI still involves artists, they are making things themselves. :(
I feel like ai should supplement art, not completely replace it.
I'm a 33 millennial baby I would never ever use AI for art.
Simply because I always try to buy secondhand on principle, I had definitely been on the hunt for a good deal on a Selkie piece that I liked. I tend to remove my feelings about brands when I thrift pieces because I’m more concerned with material, structure, and longevity (but equally so to all of that is aesthetics). However, there are some brands whose actions end up putting a bad taste in my mouth and I’m not willing to wear their pieces and advertise them (so to speak). I feel like the Selkie look is so distinct and hard to separate from the brand no matter how far removed on the buying chain someone is, so now I probably won’t 😬 that isn’t to say I know the exact history of each piece I already own, but since I know I can’t ignore it
My take as a 40yr old creative that has worked in traditional and digital media plus dabbled with AI:
I’m not 100% opposed to using AI as a helpful tool in certain circumstances but I am very much against using as a replacement for actual making art and training AI with the work of artists without consent.
I think that AI “Art” has already made a huge mess of the small business world, sellers using AI images have popped up everywhere from print on demand t-shirt and sticker sellers to people selling their AI created images to people to use for print on demand. Websites like Creative Fabrica are even offering AI generated images that their employees have made with their own AI instead of actual art. The worst part is that it’s so poorly done!
However, I can see the point of view from the owner, hiring an artist to design the prints for your clothing is very expensive. Digitally altering an AI image to fit your needs is not only cheaper but much faster. And with digitally created artwork on the rise, the artist you’ve hired could possibly be doing the exact same thing (unless you know 100% they make a traditional piece of art and scan it in for digitizing)
I think the problem with Selkie is this has cheapen the brand and is exposing that they don’t make their own products. Creating a “custom” design to be printed on fabric which will be used to make the dresses is fine, But I have problems with the sweatshirts, so many problems!
The first being that they are selling them in the first place, they don’t fit with their brand. The mockup images were very poorly done, it’s very obvious that this whole thing was done by someone with beginner level skills. And again, getting an image printed onto a sweatshirt is not inline with the brand. Everyone and their auntie can easily sell t-shirts and sweaters with a picture on it. For a brand like Selkie, the quality needs to be more than good, with an outstanding original design and a reason to buy it over others. Sadly I think that the owner started playing around with digital art, got overly excited and jumped into using it before she really learned about everything involved.
This!!! Like I understand hiring graphic designers is expensive, but as someone commented on their IG post- there is plenty of free to use vintage dog/cat art available atm since the licensing is so old it’s now free use. Selkie could of used those images for this collection, but they didn’t because they seem to want to cut corners and cheapen their brand as you stated.
Also it’s fair enough if a brand wants to cut costs and try to make things cheaper, but charging the same price or more for lower quality designs isn’t it, and it’s just going to drive away their customer base- because the whole point of Selkie is them being a sustainable, size inclusive slow fashion brand. If you take 2 of those 3 things away- you don’t have much left of what your brands foundation was built on. 🤷♀️
Thank you for talking about this!
AI makes me really nervous, especially since my dad is scared he’s gonna lose his job of 25+ years to AI. People need to keep talking about how unethical it is for businesses to cut corners with AI
AI generated images shouldn't be referred to as Art and I think if we as a whole stopped referring to it as art it might slow down. I think as a tool for designing clothes, or getting an idea on paper is great, but using it to make the whole thing and then calling it "my art!" Is insulting.
I think there might be something there with the generational divide on the subject. My BF is a total techhead and is in love with this AI "art" trend and I grew up and am still in the art community and I can't get him to understand how detrimental this is to the art community as a whole. We just had the SAG/AFFA (I know I got those abbreviations wrong) strike over AI in movies and Hollywood. This is quite literally jobs and people's livelyhoods on the line because people will cut corners to save a buck for subpar work.
If people would actually use it as a tool and not to bypass skilled work to cut costs it would be great! But it's not.
I love living in the time line where people are working long hours for crap pay doing menial labor while robots get to make "art" 🙃
I keep getting disappointed that I'm seeing brands I'm interested in starting to use AI in their advertisements
I'm 35 and I feel the same way. Though I felt that way when digital art started coming out. I couldn't understand why someone wouldn't want to paint or draw with paper and fun mediums.
Been waiting for this video since you mentioned it in the ✨sunday stream✨ and it is finally here!
Also oh my god that hair. THAT HAIR. God I love that hair And that outfit. Chef's kiss.
YAY thank u for the hype and the sweetness :D 🌈💕✨🩷
I think a great example of AI being used well in art is "content aware fill," where if takes what you the artist have already drawn, and fills in the blank with that info. I've accidentally flattened images before realizing I needed to adjust/transform something leaving a gaping hole in the middle of the piece, and content aware fill saved my ass so many times 😂
Just in time for my lunchbreak!! 🎉
Wait did I just hear the name Kelly Eden? In the year of our lord 2024??
Pattern drafters and graders are also jobs. I wouldn’t want to see that replaced with AI either.
unless i'm mistaken i think that what they were getting at is a hypothetical program that analyses a person's previous patterns in order to streamline the design process? like not creating patterns from scratch or stealing other people's, but replicating elements of your own previous work. at least that's what i think pixie meant!
I’m talking about a hypothetical tool to aid pattern drafters, not supporting any sort of job replacement.
Hot tea while I’m making myself some lunch (spaghetti)? Yes please!
"Why didnt you hire Kelly Eden?" LITERALLY
i was about to comment the same thing 😭 i love her sm
Waaaahhh I thought it was the younger generation that was super into AI! In my experience online, I'm 30, and people older than me were really against it because they have been professional artists. And all the AI artists I come across are in their early 20's, so I think we'd need some proper statistics actually on that. Because yeah the 40 yr old graphic designers and artists I speak to absolutely hate AI and actually sometimes have no nuance and so yeah just straight up hate it, especially because they do have their careers to lose as well. Where as I do think we need to approach the conversation with nuance.
I know I'm a cusper really at 30
i agree w/ you here, i think it just really depends on the spheres you are in online and that it isn't just one age group that thinks AI is good and the other bad 😅
OMG I LOVE YOUR HAIR IN THIS VIDEO 🤧🤧🤧🤧 YOU'RE LOOKING LIKE A PRINCESS !!!!!!! 💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖
I love your outfit this video! The heart necklace is everything!!!❤
Eeeee thank u I made the necklace recently hehe
I’ve loved the Selkie dresses for ages and hoped I could afford one someday, but use of AI has made me hesitant to do that now. I’m hoping they’ll change their design process in the future to reflect the wishes of their customer base. If this is a one time thing then I personally wont mind as much.
yeah as an illustrator I'm anti AI (not in every field, but for creatives in general). If I ever buy Selkie it'll be secondhand (because I can't afford the extra costs that come with shipping to the EU :') ) so I wouldn't feel bad about doing that (same with fast fashion). I'm definitely interested in seeing where they go from here. I just hope the drama doesn't escalate; results in more defensiveness rather than actually learning from their consumer base
Great analysis! It was clear, concise and you brought up some good points that I hadn't yet considered.
I'm 34 and my politics are very closely aligned with your own. I was probably around your age when I started coming to an understanding of systems of oppression. But you've addressed this in the comments so it's all good. My views on AI are both simple and complex. I will probably never use it in my own art, I don't trust it, I believe it is a violation of the rights of artists and that it compromises our already narrow future. At the same time, I have a friend who is a broke, disabled mom in recovery who has been using it combined with RPG maker to create a video game. That process has been extremely healing for them and is not something they would ever have the resources or ability to do without AI. I support them 100% (and the game is great), while at the same time fully understanding that established companies outsourcing art to AI is an awful thing. I will always leave room for creators to do better but if it becomes a pattern, you've lost me.
If the thing with the inaccurate dog-paw anatomy is correct then that is absolutely WILD like then it’s not even just about the AI art, but also about quality control LOL
And I think that’s where your point is super accurate. I am on the same page regarding the usage of AI pretty much: it can be a helpful tool in some angles but the way it’s used rn is a whole other can of worms LMAO but one big thing about AI is also that it makes mistakes and sometimes can’t tell mistake from good outcome apart (e.g. the inaccurate number of toes on a dog’s paw) so it needs human attention to control it and if that’s not something that happened here it is really likely that AI wasn’t used as a tool for optimizing a technical process but as you said maybe more as a way to cut corners and push more product out in a shorter amount of time 🫠
Btw absolutely ADORE the fit and hairstyle 💕🩵🌈 so cute
My boyfriend is a graphic designer and he loves using AI at his job. He says it cuts down on the busy work and allows him to quickly get lots of thumbnails to a client. He says it speeds up the creative process between himself and the client and that he's not wasting a bunch of time creating 50 thumbnails that gave the potential to all be rejected. Now he can generate ideas in an unlimited fashion and when the client picks out a few then he knows exactly where to go from there. Then he can tweak and draw by hand (well digitally/) all the details for the final product.
My jaw dropped when you mentioned Kelly Eden. I LOVE HER WORK
Your hair is SO. FREAKING. CUUUUUTE!!! Thank you for the info!
that was a very cool and informative video! I had never considered about one's generation within the AI discourse and I think you bring a very interesting point about it. Keep videos like this coming, so cool!! ^^
havent finished the vid yet so idk if u mentioned it but they also shared kat von ds post a couple days ago which is….. not good if you know anything abt the path shes gone down
Omg no I did not know that 😭
I wouldn't say Kelly Eden because they would still get controversy or get memed on at least but I get what you mean though. There are plenty of vintage pet artists (in fact I got one done of my cat).
Perfect timing, just started my makeup 🩷🩷🩷
AI feels like a mistake, man. The world may as well be on fire at this point. 🔥
I watched this video while sitting in one of my favorite blankets, drinking water and calming myself from a panic attack. But it calmed me down and im doing and feeling okay!!!!! Sorry if this was tmi I thought it was fitting.
I normally don't like getting into internet controversy, but this was very interesting, I appreciate how you explained it from multiple perspectives! I'm an artist who just started fashion design so these topics are both so relevant to me rn. Definitely think we need to have more conversations about AI art and how it can be applied in the industry. I'm not completely against AI art but I don't think we need to get rid of jobs for working artists and illustrators. especially in the fashion industry 😭
I am turning 30 this year and I can`t say that it`s generational? Maybe? At least me and my friend group all fear AI taking our job opportunities or that AI could be a helper. Like as you said for maybe moodboards to inspire stuff.
I love AI in general and letting people have the freedom to do what they want without being judged.
I have a few Selkie pieces and I will not be purchasing from them before. My issue isn't only about it ruins the integrity of art, but AI art references and steals from artist's work without compensation or permission. I don't want to support a company that partakes in plagiarism.
It also seems like more companies are getting comfortable with the use of AI. I just saw a post about, correct me if I’m wrong, Square Enix using more AI.
As a digital artist, I’ve found it hard to get commissions without cutting my prices.
Love your commentary style videos and hearing you share your knowledge on various fashion-related topics. Also you look like a pastel princess in this video and I love it
One of my small artists friends is 40 something and she HATES anything related to AI. She and other small artists in her circle have being severely impacted by it to the point that it has become almost impossible to sell and promote their art.
Something that hasn't been mentioned in this video is that using the currently available AI systems for anything is unethical. Not just for the computers taking jobs from creatives, but all the data that the AIs were trained on were obtained unethically. They were used without paying/asking the actual creators!
I own a selkie dress (dream dress I've planned on wearing to every possible event) as others have commented, size inclusivity and at least an effort to be sustainable is so rare to find together!!! Really disappointing. Hopefully no one buys these AI ones and they quit using it.
Bringing up the the age thing is so weird to me. Because I don’t know anyone in their mid to late 30s or older that is for AI “art”, and even AI as a whole. But, okay.
I love and hate the ai debate as i am a photographer and i mainly focus on product photo retouching as my main career. I use AI as a tool to remove specs on images possibly people in the background of the images however i have had people mention to me that i should use AI to basically do my job for me which is completely wrong. I get paid to do my job and there will be a day that means that possibly i will lose my job and therefore i am pro using AI as a tool, i am not for ai being used to take away from those who need their job i am glad this debate has come around as i have been on the recieving end of people telling me to use AI that could replace me.
No idea what’s going on but excited to hear your thoughts! 💕💗
It's really interesting being a textiles major during this time. We have a clause in our program that states that we are not allowed to use AI at all. It is considered plagiarism at my school. I am in support of this policy honestly. That said, we do have a guest speaker coming to discuss AI case studies. I am interested to see what he says.
+Pixielocks *I dialed up the Selkie Collectionᵀᴹ, and the dresses are neo-Regency (GBR).* Stays over chemises should be mandatory, if I'm reading correctly. Probably the artist used AI for calibrating the Jacquard machines.
Your fit, makeup and accessories look AWESOME this video! ❤
AI shouldn’t be in the artistic/ creative industries as it is now. (Maybe in the future with a different program?) The programs are literally stealing art from other artists to even be able to create the AI “art” to begin with.
It’s actually really insulting to all the other artists and creatives out there, to use AI especially as someone who claims to be an artist and graphic designer herself- idk what Selkies CEO is doing honestly. Even if it is a generational thing, you’d think that Kim would know better being a professional in her field and I wouldn’t be surprised if she was the first person to call out other people for stealing her art and designs if that ever happened. 🤷♀️
If just comes off as her being lazy and trying to capitalise and profit from other artists without actually paying them for their work, and it really questions the validity of their other claims like sustainability and being a true“slow fashion” brand, as there’s been talk about Selkie firing a lot of their graphic designers (and only Kim being the only GD employee atm) and their quality decreasing from outsourcing to Chinese manufacturers.
The thing that most people aren't talking about regarding AI outside of certain parts of the disability community and some folks in tech is that AI is a very broad term for a variety of types of technology and AI technology has been used for certain disability access tools for quite some time. The type of AI that people are taking issues with in regards to the art world to my understanding is mainly generative AI data bases. Some augmentive and alternate communication devices use a form of AI. As well as some electric wheelchairs. And that's only a couple examples. It's really unfortunate that so many people are using it to make plagerized and not well done art instead of the focus on the ways AI is used and being developed into helpful access tools for disabled people. Because of the ways that AI is quickly becoming so harmful there's alot of push to make AI as a whole illegal. The problem with that is that it's going to result in some very significant harm to the disabled community.
I am 38 and an artist I Agee with you about AI and so do all my friends are the same opinion and some of them are older that me and younger!
I'm 37 and a lot of people around my age in my streaming community are all very against AI art. I'm not saying it couldn't be a generational thing, more just informing that there are us near that age group that are super against it.
Soooo when are u gonna drop how to do those bang ❤❤❤
Completely unrelated but I LOVE your shirt/dress (?) In this video. It's so cute 💖
I will say that from what I know, the main demographic who really popularized her work, bought it and interacted with it were young women between the ages of 18 to 39- and the main drawing factor was that the pieces were mostly marketed as originally crafted through design and production.
It was that labor of love aspect that really gave her notoriety to women who might’ve otherwise not have known her-
So by her stepping into trying to launch a collection with lazy AI patterns on polyester fabric ,while still charging a pretty penny…. She was obviously going to lose A LOT of supporters.
Because to them, the brand is visibly losing its integrity and initial appeal to those who appreciate genuine artistry in clothing.
My opinion on Ai is if it's a helpful tool, that's great, but having the Ai do the whole thing, then it's not. It's basically like having someone else do your research paper then saying it's yours when you turn it in, but if you find the sorces yourself and use those to help write your paper, then it's still your work.
i think blanketly calling procedural image generation "AI" is the worst thing that happened to the conversation around this. artificial intelligence has been used for many years and has thousands and thousands of different uses from video games to medicine. AI does not always equal procedurally generated images and text.
that being said, i think it all depends on the way its being used. procedural image generation has its uses in art, but, like you said, should be kept to the thumbnailing and brainstorming step of art, and shouldnt really end up in the final process. i appreciate kim being open about using AI in the products instead of passing it off as all her own.
the debate is very heated, very reactionary, and there are very strong feelings on both sides. procedural image generation should be used as a tool, not as a substitute for creativity.
i have been wanting to buy from selkie soooo bad but this was such a turn off to me and i think i will wait to see if they take consumer feedback into account before i decide to buy anything from them. i really cant support the use of ai while so many artists cant support themselves 😭
As an elder millennial and 90's baby (I'm turning 32 this year) AI in art just makes me sad, considering it was trained with art that wasn't obtained ethically. If the art uses to train the AI was obtained with the artists permission or an artist was commissioned for it or compensaited for it, AI would be so cool as (like you said) a tool for things!
I love love love the way the selkie dresses look but I recently saw a lot of people talk about how the quality is not great (no lining etc) so I was discouraged from buying one, and then this thing happens.. 😬 The whole AI thing is very difficult to navigate because I'm sure that it can be helpful and useful in some ways, but also I feel like creativity is not going to be appreciated the same way in the future if AI becomes the norm. I've recently been looking for jobs to use my uni degree with (creative and professional writing and English language) and over half of the jobs to have anything to do with that are AI based 😕
Great video! Gen x artist, author, wifi tech support here... so lots of different angles. I don't trust most AI for a lot of reasons. I havent seen a generational divide with ai in person. your thoughts about her circle's influence are on point! I have have non-conservatives on both sides of fence. My art friends and techie ones feel like ai can be used in harmful ways... So many more things to say!
You look so so cute!!!!! Extremely fairy tea party coded. Also, it’s tough to boycott when I wasn’t already dropping $300 on a dress, but now they’re never getting it from me. I’d rather shop at a place local to me like Bonne Chance
Ladys and gents! (and everything inbetween and around)...
Fast fashion, is of the old age...
WELCOME! to the NEW AGE...
TURRRBO FASHION!!! 🎉
I'm disappointed but not surprised. I agree there's ways to use AI ethically to help aid in the process, not replace. Let's hope that the conversation progresses the way NFTs did
I have a sweater from Selkie (no idea where I would wear one of those dresses lol) and I love it! so comfy and soft. I was hoping to buy a dress from them someday. If they learn from this and don't do it again then I would probably still buy from them in the future. But if they do what some companies do and just think they can get away with it and keep doing it then no, I will not be purchasing from them again. They have an opportunity to give business to some amazing artists, no idea why they would go with AI over that.
At this point AI Art is on the same level of corporate clip art.
This reminds me a lot of when LS Dunes (band Frank Iero is in) dropped an entirely AI-generated music video a few months ago, their fans were pissed!!! I think the generational divide theory could definitely apply here too, those guys are all gen x (I think) and their audience is (mostly) younger people/gen z, and they also got defensive and stood their ground in the instagram comments. Really weird!!!!
Anyway epic video as always Pixie I hope yous have a beautiful week :)
I do have painter friends who use AI for concept then paint what the AI generates after editing it. They also use AI generated captions to get engagement. Its very personal and controversial, but I just wanted to say its VERY common for painters to use AI now. (EDIT: they are all under 25)
In some cases, AI is great to help/assist. But that's it. Only to assist. Not to do the work for us. In terms of graphic art, I see AI used in the selection tool in photoshop, on fonts in Illustrator. And even to make mockups in Illustrator. That's great! I love it! But I'm not a fan much of the whole AI generative images they've made a thing on these programs.
I’ve ordered from Selkie before (from Australia so US/Canada might be different) but my item was shipped directly from China, unlike being made in China, then shipped to the US for distribution. Obvi doesn’t change the validity of all ur other points in this amazing and well put together video just wanted to put it out there on the environmental ethics side of things.
Ohhhh amazing thank u I was so curious about that!!!
i agree with everything you said in this video. it's a shame because selkie's products are absolutely beautiful but this has kind of put me off supporting them, especially since their products are kind of expensive. like why would i pay $200 for a sweater with a six toed dog created by a computer? i think ai can definitely have its uses in something like healthcare, helping to detect diseases or something like that, but why are we trying to use it to replace the humanity and joy in creating art???
Commenting before watching, but I HAD to tell you.
That. Necklace. Is. Lifegiving.
-Rene
I own two Selkie pieces and it broke my heart to see them use AI. I will not be purchasing from them directly in the future unless they prove their prints were made by a real person. (I may purchase some older dresses secondhand, but no new AI ones.)
I am an artist and art teacher. I am excited for what AI /could/ be. I love the idea of having a program where I could upload my own art or the art of others that has been moved into the public domain so that I could use AI to help me come up with a new concept or composition. I would love to then use the AI generated images as a means to create real art, changing the sketching phase of creation into something new and different. As of right now, AI programs work off of databases that scraped the internet for artists and their work without getting permission, making current AI unethical. If artists were paid, gave permission to companies for their work to be used to train AI, then that would be so cool! Imagine the new ways that we could use this technology in the creative arts areas. It's all just terrible, at the moment, though.
Edit to add my age: I am 32, so a middle-to-young millenial
Pixie u are so funny and informative 💖💖💖
I hate AI. Was Jillian in thisvideo ? I can't remember the color code
Jill & Flora 🥰
I don't quite agree with the generational thing--in that, within art & design spaces, I don't think you'll find many Millennial or Gen X artists & designers who are okay with the broad usage of AI (&... there's really not the big divide you imply there is between folks in their 20s & 30s in online spaces). If anything, it'd be that those generations are also cursed with a higher density of Tech Bros who, IMO, are the real driving force behind disasters like this (see also: NFTs).
I am kind of against selkie because of their use of polyester in a significant amount of their dresses (I took a peek just now and their top 10 dresses on the home page still contain poly somewhere).This ai stuff brings them back down a notch from where incorporating nature fibres took them.
I would suspect it's social class as opposed to generational.
yeeesss spill the fashion world tea ☕️
I have really mixed feelings about this as well because on the one hand I don't think we should be putting energy into automating tasks that humans *enjoy* doing and find meaning in when we could be automating tasks and professions that people should not have to do (i.e., professions that are dangerous, undesirable, poorly paid, etc.). However, I also understand that fast fashion companies especially would be stealing this art from small artists anyway, and it's preferable for them to AI generate something instead of doing that, so idk
Replying to boost this comment.
this is a really interesting point, although i think it's worth keeping in mind that ai steals from countless artists including those with relatively small followings, so even if what it creates is a sort of remix of other's work as opposed to a direct copy i'm not sure that's necessarily any better?
@jessicalanger7599 that's also completely true!
I really don't understand what's wrong with using AI to create stuff 🤷♀️🤷♀️