About IDW's placement relative to the games - *Frontiers still hasn't happened yet.* Every IDW issue so far (barring the Classic comics or the short Frontiers tie-in) have all taken place between Forces and Frontiers, I believe Ian Flynn said so himself on an old episode of his podcast. I think this is somewhat shown by the fact that Sage hasn't been present whatsoever in the comics. IDW still hasn't caught up to Frontiers and we don't know when it will.
@@KOTSOSMC2002 Nope! TMOSTH is not canon! Yes, Barry and the Conductor/his wife do appear, so the *characters* from TMOSTH are canon, but the game itself definitively is not, as confirmed by I believe both Ian Flynn and Evan Stanley? Or maybe it was Katie, the social media manager. I forgot who exactly confirmed it, but it's confirmed nonetheless. Supposedly, *similar* events did canonically happen *before* Frontiers, from what I've heard.
@@FlamingFoxProd Evan said it isn't, Ian said it is. Here's the reason why it is canon: Cause it's not stated otherwise and it doesn't contradict anything. That is literally how it has always worked in the entire franchise's history. Shuffle, Battle, Rush, Advance, Rivals, all of them dropped in a similar fashion. Yes, it is canon. Only reason y'all think it isn't is because it was released on the first of April. We don't have to be told it's canon. The fact that it's a spin-off that got released in the modern day with what's obviously the main cast makes it canon.
I'd say Wisper is a representation of Force's as a whole as her background takes place entirely within its narrative while also being very similar to Infinite's.
@plates7245 nice take! Forces has the potential there with the story and all, but it just wasn’t well executed. Makes sense that they’d want to keep some of the elements from there
@mavrickindigo @BeamR265OLD very interesting. Smart of them to get that out there since it offers plenty of leeway for how much they can do from here on out
If you put Surge in a game, Kit HAS to follow. He doesn’t get a choice in the matter. He was “programmed” to make sure Surge had a friend, and adding Surge to the games without Kit would entirely screw with that. Though I do want to say that the IDW comics being canon, to me, is a really good thing. There can be fun interactions and interesting world building added through the comics, that can play a role in what happens in the games, and vice versa. It’s just nice to keep it all to one timeline.
Fair point and I did consider that! All of the decisions were made based on how much they’ve grown in the story, and Kit just doesn’t have that currently. I would of course LOVE them both to come into the games since their powers are sick as hell
@@partyrock4144he's at home base making her food for after her battle, the little guy doesn't really seem to like fighting much anyway, more of a planner.
One thing that I feel hurts the comics being canon is that it makes certain characters hard to introduce in the games. Sure, characters like Tangle don’t really have much backstory, and Whisper’s origin could easily be a flashback, but an issue arises when you get to characters like Surge and Kit. Their backstory is incredibly important to their characters, and yet it’d be hard to fit an explanation into a game since their backstory is pretty long and involves a lot of context from the comics, including Starline who would be pretty hard to justify explaining in game considering he’s currently, y’know, dead. You’d need a pretty hefty recap to get non-comic readers caught up on certain characters, which makes them hard to introduce into more mainline projects
@MattGonYT I feel like this is why game manuals should’ve never left. Most characters stories can be summed up quite well in those. Maybe we should even go back to having character bios in the games too
8:49 technically in term of the whole lore I do believe Sonic 3 also takes place extremely close to the event of Sonic 2 since they're both heavily linked with the Death Egg falling into Angel Island and presumably Sonic & Tails taking chase immediately after Sonic 2, not that it really matter. Man I just realized I'm the "erm acktually 🤓" meme lol. Anyway good vid 👍
It does! In fact, 2 & 3 take place right after one another since super sonic arrives on Angel Island after crashing the death egg in Sonic 2. Happy you enjoyed the video as well🙂↕️
I honestly think Belle has a really good chance of getting in a game due to how big Sage is after her debut game There can be a really interesting dynamic between two of Eggman’s “daughters.” One he cares for and the other he doesn’t. Belle can hold resentment towards Sage because of this, while Sage would consider Belle her sister the same way she does Orbot and Cubot. Belle is more a mechanic/inventor, while Sage is more digitally/hacking based.
Makes sense in my book! That’s a good setup for a story about coming to understand one’s place in the world and the circumstances they find themselves in given the context around how they came to be.
I think lanolin really needs some attention alone, one reason I think the hate hasn’t stopped or let up is because after her first sort of important role where the new diamond cutters were established, she’s stuck only sharing panels with other characters, only making it worse when her only notable lines are one off commands trying to keep tangle in line, rather than allowing her to come full circle in a arc, she makes bad decisions you’d expect at the start of a character arc, but it doesn’t get expanded on enough, to the point by now it’s hard to tell if the writers are giving her character one massive character arc, or if they don’t know what to do with her
I think it may be the latter unfortunately. They’re in a hard spot I can imagine since a Lanolin one-shot may/may not sell well. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t maybe
she better have an arc with duo where she kills him, i want mimic DEAD. But it would also be good for lanolin ig, and would allow her, whisper, and silver to mend thejr bridges a bit.
I kind would argue Surge + Kit being a package deal as well. While Surge can 100% stand on her own without Kit, I feel like Kit's the kinda of character that benefits more from having someone to actively bounce off of. He's actively programmed to be supportive of Surge or someone that he feels can fill Surge's spot if she's removed. Would make a good secondary antag role, if someone removed Surge from the main narrative. Then Kit just spirals a bit as he either try to support someone he thinks he can trust (ala Knuckle's 1st encounter with Eggman), or become a completely unhinged antag that's just ready to lash out against the world. Gives Kit a reason to be an re-occuring antag in a plot, but it might also get Surge to consider the fox's feelings more actively since she doesn't give him too much thought of he's not already in the room with her.
Oh most definitely. My thought process was just that he didn’t have much outside of that currently. I em turned a few times, but I’m about 4/5 issues behind the current arc, so that would explain that flub. I hear that Kits morphing into a solid character though!
Indeed. Bro gets washed by Sonic and I guess draws(?) with Shadow of you want to use 06 as a point of reference. Neither one has the combat experience of a Knuckles or Shadow, but do utilize their gimmicks to the maximum potential. I doooo have a video on this if you led like to know more about my standpoint 👀
@@Jiggyx3 Sonic never beats Silver in 06 canonically. He got saved by Amy blocking Silver in their first encounter He got saved by Shadow blocking Silver in their second encounter And then he never fights Silver again in that game.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on excluding Rough and Tumble. If you're going to have Clutch, then they can very well serve as an underling bosses for his faction since Clutch employs genuine people while Eggman is strictly robots. Also, if your going to have Surge, you NEED to include Kit since their pretty much a package deal. Jewel, I can see working as a mission control for the Restoration and the Neo Diamond cutters and basically distributes objectives. Belle and Dr. Starline are pretty much the only two I can agree with, unless they have Belle serving as a mechanic role for obtaining and upgrading gear.
I’m game. I appreciate how they’re basically the team rocket of the IDW-verse and they do have some decent moments. Given that the 10 I mentioned are the most notable newcomers of the series, I had to make some unfortunate cuts😔 putting Clutch in with no named minions was the only choice I could make given the circumstances, but he was the best villain outside of surge/mimic. As for the Kit cut, same thing honestly. As of rn, Surge clears him as a character, BUT having both is an absolute dream
I recall a podcast episode with Ian specifically stating the comics weren’t canon. Is there something that came out recently that changes that decision? And no tangled being mentioned in frontiers doesn’t count it was a cute Easter egg but doesn’t make the whole comic series canon
I mostly agree but i say instead of getting information from robotic Chao we can get information or quests from Jewel in the games so she can be in the games since she is Tangle's best friend she would appear in the games in some kind of way anyways +excluding Kit while Surge is there would be weird their stories interwined so if Surge is there Kit must appear in the games too and lastly Dr.Starline MUST come back in some ways he was such a good villian everytime he was on a scene you felt like something bad is going to happen he was a real threat and a breath of fresh air (also i would've probably exclude Clutch but i dont mind including him too its always good to have more standalone villians)
Ooooo that Jewel one is a solid choice! As for my Kit omission, hard cuts had to be made, but I hear that he’s forming into this solid character in the current arc, so I may have to retract that omission soon. If we can get Starline back in a game where that’s the whole plot, then that’d be sick too!
Let Starline stay dead. He was a good villian, but arc and personality are finished. He was there to criticise and highlight Eggmans personality traits in a natural way, a good way of establishing what Eggman is and how he will act in the comics. And he died after serving this role. Any comeback will have to either basically reinvent the character or just pointlessly repeat all of the old bits again.
@@Jiggyx3I dont think Kit is an interesting character either and i dont really care about him but his story is interwined with Surge so only having one of them would be weird unless they kill him off or smth
@@АлексейЮрловскийHis arc is not finished at all he started to became independent from Eggman and he became much more interesting but before we can get development on that he vanished he would be a very good addition to the series
@Relicsplace I get what you’re saying. From what I understand, Kit is kind of coming into his own in the current arc, so I may have to back peddle my statement soon
I don't believe it will actually be canon in practice. Whenever a show, movie, or game has a comic series, they always say that it's canon until the original show, movie or games overrides what happens in the comic. Canon in name only or canon until it's not.
That's already not the case tho. The EggNet (an IDW creation) was integral for the story of Sonic Frontiers and had a whole Egg Memo regarding it, Tangle was mentioned, Tangle, Whisper and Surge have appeared in games (Sonic Dash, Sonic Speed Battle, Sonic Speed Simulator), Tangle and Whisper have their own merch too for what it's worth. Frontiers was the first mainline game after IDW started and the comics already affected it in some ways.
Kit's whole deal atm - or at least what they're setting up for - is to be the one character that prolongs Surge's need to keep existing. If he can't be there to see essentially *herself* through, then it all comes crashing down for him. I think Surge's character arc is crucial to Kits, and vice-versa. The trio package comic they released with stories about Surge & Kit, Knuckles and Mimic explains what I mean better than I can.
I’ll be sure to check that out then. I have to definitely read these last few issues of the comic currently, as I was waiting for the riders arc to finish before I completed it, but seems like I’ve missed out on a decent bit of info
9:00 it can't be after Battle for Angel Island because everyone still thought Eggman was the reformed Mr Tinker. All games must happen after the Metal Virus saga is over. I'd say TSR happens between Metal Virus and Bad Guys.
I have 3 lists of IDW characters who should be in the games: In: . Surge *&* Kit (They’re a package, you can’t have one without the other) . Tangle . Whisper . Lanolin . Mimic Still in but relegated to just Plot or NPCs: . Jewel . Starline (Because he’s currently dead) . Clutch Out: . Rough & Tumble . Belle
Belle should be in because of how she can bounce off sage. Sage values family more than anything and Belle has been doing everything to distance herself from her family. In fact how Eggman interacts with sage is a interesting middle ground between his cartoonishly evil portrayal and his Mr. Tinker persona. A “little sister” could be exactly what brings Belle out of being so uninteresting according to you (I actually find her very interesting but I’m starting to believe that’s just preference)
A team choxoixs visual novel game with a mix of spying would be cool since you wanna use them. Also I feel they could have used Gadget from forces (the red wolf) Personally I would keep the avatar forever but oh well putting IDW could be interesting. Just hope it's written well.
That’s all I can really ask for; Well written stories that make the characters worth caring about, ya know? I wouldn’t mind a swappable avatar model for Sonic in these games though!
I personally have no issue whatsoever with the comics being canon, what to me always made Sonic stand out from Mario IMO was it's focus on characterization, lore and continuity, so allowing a space for these aspects to breathe and shine is a major plus for me. (Though I do wish SEGA would get over their fear of the human race and allow for human characters and background dressing again not named Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik or Witchkart) On the subject of timeline placements, while I won't speak on Frontiers since that seems to have already been pointed out, I do want to mention the comic does sprinkle hints of when some game games happen relative to each other. For instance, the 30th Anniversary issue which takes place shortly after Mania + show off the Hooligans and Metal Knuckles and Tails Doll, showing that not only does Mania take place after Sonic the Fighters and Sonic R but given Bean's comment Fighters might be one of the earlier spin offs. Onto the final subject of the IDW making their video game debut, while I mostly agree there are two characters I disagree on. First off is Kitsaumi, they are a packaged deal in my eyes and you can't have one without the other. Sure he is support for Surge and can't be anything more but thats the point and the horror of the character. Starline has robbed him of being independent. However, on the other hand, he genuinely grounds Surge and keeps her getting herself killed with her reckless actions and her trauma from swallowing her. Without Kit Surge just isn't going to last and will self destruct. The other character that I feel that needs to come in is Belle. I know that she can't do anything gameplay wise but IMO the Sonic games were the ones that didn't focus entirely on gameplay anyways. (the Adventure duology, S3&K, etc.) Belle is the unwanted daughter of Eggman and what happens when family seeking Sage finds her? Now that Ivo is more receptive to the idea of being a father has his opinion on Belle changed and if so will he go out of his way to make her rejoin the "family" like he did to Metal? (reprogram her rebellious streak out of her to be loyal) While making Belle a damsel in distress is not a popular trope in today's culture, tropes are tools and this family drama deserves to be center stage more then anything Clean Sweep can come up with. (Plus it potentially allows for Gemeral to make a reappearance as a bonus)
Appreciate you voicing your opinion and information! As for the two characters, I just figured out thanks to this video that both Kit and Belle have tons of fans, which is good! I only omitted them to try and keep some uniformity between the diamond cutters, which would fit the Sonic’s franchise’s emphasis on everyone “belonging to a team”. I hear that Kit is getting a lot of character development recently, which makes me happy, and someone also brought up that Belle could have a sort of rivalry with Sage
I didn’t know they had this many fans, but it’s good to see that people are just blindly agreeing with me! I’d want all the characters to get in, but I know most things are based on how popular the developers think a character is
Checks out for the most part, though it is hard to imagine Surge without Kit, most of the others on the out list are fairly situational - except for Rough & Tumble, who would be cool rival characters, and I could see fitting in game using Clutch... assuming Clutch survives his almost inevitable death at this point. Kit is Tails to Surge as Sonic, that was the whole point behind their original conception and both characters serve as foils to their more clear-cut heroic counterparts. Having them both show up as rivals in a Heroes-esque game I can see working phenomenally. As for Lanolin, yeah, seeing the full Diamond Cutters team show up in games would be great, but first I feel like she needs to be given a redemption arc in the comics first, otherwise I seriously doubt it'd go well UNLESS she got one through the game. The one minor issue I have, though. Sage and Belle. Say anything you want, but they are the singular thing that throw a wrench into this whole thing simply for them both being Eggman's creations and his portrayal around them both is a bit contradictory. Otherwise, yes. I want them all in the games! It'd be awesome, not much more to say than that.
Glad you found some value out of the video! Same here though, I agree. Lanolin should most definitely have some kind of turn around so that the masses don’t continue to hate on her and Belle would be very redundant since we have Sage, like you mentioned
(Commenting after I watched this video, fyi responders) If we're talking about the characters you'd like in a game [first I'm shooken that you didn't include Whisper in the discussion, lol.] but with the characters included, I feel like even though you don't see much going on with Kit at the moment, not including him and including Surge takes away from Surge herself. Let's say you're right, and Kit brings nothing to the table other than wanting to help Surge and being smart. Surge has nothing to go on then. Kit was made specifically to support her, and in the comics she's grown to listen to his plans and use him for support. She beat Metal Sonic using Kit for help, she got the upper hand and overpowered Starline to get his glove with Kit's help, using Kit's plan to not only get to the point where they were going to eliminate Sonic, Eggman and Starline in one area, but when she wanted to be a hero in the racing section of the comics Kit again made a plan to help her break out of Clutch's control, which even got Mimic almost in trouble, forcing him to go along with the new Diamond Cutters to Clutch's ship or risk Surge exposing him. Kit is to Surge what Tails is to Sonic, just not as much. Kit isn't able to stand on his own at the moment, and who knows how long it'll be before he can become independent, but at the same time Surge can't really stand much on her own either, she'll rashly go into things and get into trouble without someone there to keep her from constantly going berserk. So if you include Surge, I still believe you should include Kit. I'm fine with most everyone else, but I will say if Whisper isn't in a game then you can't include Mimic, since his whole goal is to get revenge on her. So I'd swap Mimic out and put Rough & Tumble in his place, to act as mini bosses/goons for Clutch still.
But I did include Whisper at the end😭 everything you said was valid though! I’ve been waiting for the riders arc to clonclude, so that flub is on me tbh. In a perfect world, everyone makes a seamless transition over to the games, but we can only hope
tangle is mentioned in frontiers and i want both a game with plot involving the comic characters and for the comics to catch up to and move past frontiers
tbh i like the angle that they seem to be going with kit in the annual, where it's implied he's going to diverge from surge as she goes anti-hero and he sticks villain in order to give surge someone to fight against and get positive affirmation for doing so, with his kind of detatched personality concluding its the most logical way to keep surge happy based on how she recieved people's praise in the riders arc. nothing's come of it yet but i think kit has enough substance to keep surge and him a package deal in the games. i see why you think he's kind of lacking tho, surge is a show-stealer and kit hasn't shined that bright so far.
I haven’t caught up with the riders arc entirely as I’m waiting for a couple of more issues to drop, but that’s good to know! The “self sacrificing friend” trope is actually one of my favorite in media too
@@Jiggyx3 2024 annual has so many good little reads! my only problem is that they refer to unpublished comics as of release, which was really weird, but if you're reading it later with those unreleased issues then that's a solved problem!
IDW has been stated to take place after Forces but before Frontiers. Currently Frontiers is the furthest along in the continuity. They’ve mentioned Sage will show up eventually, but she isn’t in IDW rn cuz Frontiers hasn’t happened yet, but that’s apparently a long way off As for characters I’d want to see in the games, I’d love Tangle and Whisper to be playable at some point. Whisper especially could end up being an improvement on the Forces Avatar, being able to use different Wisps in her gun. It could be some cool customisation. But the sonic games can barely even get characters like Knuckles or Shadow to be playable these days so I’m not holding much hope 😔
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1xwhat I meant was, that characters other than Sonic haven’t been playable in ages. Sonic Frontiers has Amy, Tails and Knuckles in the dlc, and we’ve recently gotten Shadow Generations, but the last time they were playable was Sonic 06. So.. my point was the even if IDW characters were in the games, there’s no telling when they would be playable, if ever
@Slimeonian Whisper would so good in a Sonic Heroes remake especially. Imagine her as a flight-type but being able to use her other wispon weapons too? She’d probably be broken lmao
If an IDW comic character like Tangle or Whisper end up in a game, I'd be very on board to buy it. I haven't bought a Sonic game since Mania, nothing's really doing it for me. I don't even read the comics, not sure if I'd keep up with them, but just knowing of the characters, I'd love to play as or alongside them in a really good plot.
And that’s absolutely fair! I will say that Shadow Generations is a good time if it La peaked your interest even remotely, but Tangle and Whisper selling you on getting back into things is a good start as well. My fingers are crossed 🤞🏾
I can imagine that it’d be something of a goofy Crash Bandicoot type of boss fight where they have slight chance to damage each other just because they’re doing too much on stage lol
Tangle and Whisper have a great chance of making it into a game, I don't know if Lanolin makes it into it but I think those two do, not only are they probably the most popular IDW original characters, especially when it comes to shipping, but those two are perfect for an open world game. After the final horizons update of Sonic frontiers and especially the open zone white space of Shadow generations, it is clear that Sega fully intends to make open world the future of Sonic. And Tangle climbing abilities are perfect for an open world game and they can easily make creative use of the wisp powers in an open world game
I heard someone say that the Doom Morph from Shadow Generation is a perfect sample of how Tangle the Lemur could play also, now I'm curious at your view at the statement of Prime being canon to the games and IDW
Oooo maybe show was the prototype for her🤔🤔🤔 ahhhh man. Sonic Prime is something. I’ll have to power through the last few episodes of the most recent season, but I’d be down to take a crack at analyzing that!
This is a good video but I do disagree on the points that Starline is one noted, him being obsessed with Eggman is definitely a key trait but I feel like you overlooked what he did with Surge and Kit adds a lot to him: he abducted two random civilians, brainwashed them and made them into cyborgs, he is shown to be overall manipulative but also flounder when Eggman confronted him. I don’t know what you personally define as one noted but I feel like he at least has a personality with some depth even if his screen time been short. I also don’t like the “in and out” section because I feel who Sega wants to add is ultimately up to them or how they view fan reception but I feel like your bias kinda clouded the fact all the characters you think are one noted would benefit from being in the games. (Also no offense but no way in HELL would they not include Kit with Surge. They are a pair and Kit could get more to do if he was added in a game) But that said still a good vid, I’ve been watching your stuff since the female sonic character video and I’m glad you talked about the comics.
No offense taken, and I said it to someone else , but I’m glad that no one has just blindly agreed with me! I called Starline one-note because (almost) everything he did was related to Eggman in some way. You could argue that makes Eggman himself one-note as well honestly, but the thing that makes him different imo is the fact that his goal isn’t to destroy Sonic, it’s to rule the world and he does it for himself. Starline is def a character that I’d love to see fleshed out more since his potential was cut way too short. While admittedly, there was bias when it came to the list, I attempted to be as objective as possible with facts that we currently have in comics. The Kit omission was a hard cut, but as I’m about 4/5 issues behind, I was not familiar with his game as of the current issues
And that’s completely fair! I know Sonic Team (if they do it) wouldn’t introduced everyone at the same time since that’d be an over-saturation of characters way too quickly, but if we’re drip-fed characters then that’s fine too
Personally, I'm a bit biased due to not being super in love with the comics. Despite being considered canon, I feel like it either adds nothing or just holds them back due to being tied to the games. They still feel like two different entities to me. Not many will agree, but I would prefer if any characters brought over weren't supposed to be the same person. For example, if tangle shows up outside of a reference, it would be someone with the same traits as their comic version with a different backstory or something of the sort to fit into game canon. I think there would be too much baggage if you tried to bring over the character wholesale into the games.
I actually like that. They can be slightly different versions with simpler backstories so that they fit a bit better into the overall story. People would find it easier to understand as well
@Jiggyx3 also these games could be the return of the avatar, which was a cool concept, imagine the avatar returns to help clear cities for the restoration
@RealKingCRK I wouldn’t mind the Avatar returning too. Creating your own character is always nice, but I feel like it should be a bonus that you can access after a certain point and not a main feature
It being canon is perfect since I adore it, but my only concern is the voices should the IDW characters appear in a game. Whisper has to sound like 2B, Starline has to be German because it just fits, Surge being anything BUT generic angry girl would probably mess with my understanding of reality, Lanolin can stay in the comics, and Tangle is Australian to me because idk I couldn't think of anything else when I was reading.
you almost not including whisper on the IN list was gonna start a rant, you did that intentionally to put tangle and whisper fans on edge, them 2 i'd say are a duo just like sonic and tails, mighty and ray, silver and blaze, shadow and rouge + omega, tangle and whisper are just goated and have made me cry a few times reading the comic's
That, my friend, is the art of suspense building 🙂↕️ you’re right about them being one of the best duos/trios though! Quite literally the golden retriever + black cat combo and I love their dynamic
I can agree a little bit but that because I don't know if that idw team can do story adaptation of current games story i.e sonic frontier and yes I attempted to ask Ian Flynn but never got my answer so yeah
I feel as though the only course of action for the IDW folks to show up in game would be to just throw them in, and have a specific character bio in-game detailing a bit more about them, as well as maybe a couple of panels from the comic that they were introduced in. Sorta like how the mega collection games did back in the day
You are kind of misinformed. No where was it said that they always want the sonic comics to be ahead of the games. In fact, currently the comics are behind frontiers and Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog. Sage clearly being nowhere in the comics is also an obvious clue to this. I also consider both surge & kit a package deal, considering his entire character is to support surge, so…
@charismaentertainer1657 I’ve since learned 😔 I apologize for this transgression. My brain probably flipped the games + comics, hence the flub, but we informed now so that’s the best part. As for the Kit+Surge, yeah I get that. I knew some hard cuts had to be made, but Kit apparently is shaping up to be a decent character in the current issues from what I’m hearing
Personally, I don’t think the IDW Comics creating & using what would’ve been great game stories is a fault with IDW. It would be a poor deal if IDW Sonic could only be canon if the stories it made weren’t as good the games & would just result in a boring canon Sonic Comic. IDW Stories being too good compared to the games is more of game issue, and the people incharge of the games should buck up with their stories (which tbf, they have recently). Also, there’s really nothing stopping Sega/Sonic Team from adapting stories like ‘The Battle For Angel Island’ or ‘The Metal Virus’ into full on games. It’s just the hubris of Sega of Japan & Sonic Team to not do that, which is there fault Also also, I’m pretty sure the current timeline status of the IDW Sonic in the main canon is that it is all still Post-Forces, Pre-Frontiers and that a small time jump for Post-Frontiers is planned to happen soon. It’s just that the IDW Writers want to finish the stories they’re telling & have a smooth transition into the next phase for IDW Sonic, rather than interrupt the comic whenever a new game comes out (which by the way, they already make special Tie-In comics for new games, so nothing is really lost)
@theevildalek5425 I appreciate all of your insight! You’re right on the IDW stories for sure; I’m just frustrated because, although the recent game stories have been good, I’ve always loved the idea of a Sonic zombie apocalypse, even as a kid. Flynn being on the game narrative team now is a good thing, and I hope they can give him a bit more freedom soon
(Commenting this before watching, fyi responders) My only issue with Forces is sort of like what happened to the Halo games, where in 5 you needed to read like 15 different books to know everything going on. If any IDW comic exclusive character ever came to a game, let's just say Starline for example, it'd be a bit out of place. I know they've done this before, if you just play some of the games you probably don't know who Trip is and she was brought back recently in the games, and you can get away with doing it with Tangle probably, but some characters like Starline, Surge, Whisper, would definitely need some form of explanation to include them if they ever came to the games, like Eggman's memos in Frontiers, or some form of collectable to get some backstory on who they are and such. It's not impossible, and I'd love to see it happen, but it'd be pretty hard to do I think. And if IDW is canon but continues to add things that don't get included/mentioned in the games then it'd grow disconnected. Or worse, if Sonic in the next game just randomly references the Metal Virus out of nowhere and no one reacts or goes further into detail, a lot of people would just have no idea what they're talking about, lol.
All very solid points, my friend. I think the egg memos and/or character bios are the least intrusive way to go about this kind of thing. If players are genuinely curious about the law new characters they’ll see in game, then they’ll have all the info they need right there in said game
I prefer them not being canon. Seeing as it's incredibly hard for the average person to read every comic, it is unreasonable to expect everyone to read it. Also the comics don't do shadow any justice. I haven't read much of it, it's not available in my region. It's sort of isolating in a way to make them a required reading for anything.
I get you. If they somehow able to properly catch people up in who these characters are if/when they show up the games, then I feel as though it’d be fine? But that’s a whole different task at hand. Shadow has gotten done completely wrong in the comics though for sure
That's the thing though, you don't have to, the only people who will want to read the comics are people who are deep diving into lore and connects, the average player doesn't need to do that, most people didn't read the game manuals for the older games so this isn't that different. Don't view it as a burden, view it as an external experience.
Good take. Fingers crossed that we can see the seeds they’ve planted with this decision grow soon! A mention isn’t enough, we gotta be able to play as these characters 🙂↕️
You’ve been here for quite a few videos, and the SSJ Blue is memorable lmao. I’m glad that im creating things you enjoy and of course appreciate you tuning in!🙂↕️
@mavrickindigo I just assumed that they were keeping it a secret from the rest of the cast that she was alive, only to have her show up in a big reveal. What you’re saying does make sense though !
It all boils down to characterization. She came in hot when it came to being an official part of the restoration as an officer of sorts and holds everyone to a high standard/criticizes them when they make dumb decisions. It’s really no different than Cream, Shadow, or Espio getting mad at Sonic for the Metal Virus arc even happening.
Tangle was designed to be plopped into a game on her own--maybe with Jewel as a gameplay mechanic like Jewel could become hook points for Tangle to Swing
This is ridiculous. Being canon means that the IDW writers need to be weary of whatever the games may decide to do. There are going to be contradictions and contrivances. You can't expect consistency between a bunch if different writers. Take Belle and Sage- same concept done twice. Both are Eggman's daughters, but Eggman only cares about one of them.
7:45 to be fair, if we're being real with ourselves we never going to get this games anyway. not that i wouldn't be hyped as fuck for them but like come on...we're talking about sequels to games that are old enough to drive and it's pretty clear sonic team has moved on by now.
I just want Whisper and Tangle to appear in the games, and maybe even have the former interact with Shadow. In fact, I kind of want Surge and Kit to interact with Shadow, too. Partially because I want to see the Shadow to fight Surge compared to her fights with Sonic, but mostly because he can relate to those characters and even sympathize with them. Also, it'd be fun to see recognize the Shadow as the Ultimate Lifeform from the outside, but slowly get to know him for who he truly is.
I can imagine Surge being flabbergasted at how everyone got Shadow and Sonic confused, especially based in their personalities. They’d probably really connect over how annoying Sonic is in their eyes lol
@@Jiggyx3 Maybe, but Shadow would probably have a limit to how much Surge can trash talk about Sonic, since he holds a great deal of respect for the Blue Blur (at least the REAL Shadow would, anyway). Once that conflict is done + an emotional heart to heart as living weapons with a level of established trust, they'd probably be good friends.
I'm fairly certain that IDW is at present, soft-canon in relation to the games if anything at this point. Its stuck in pre-Frontiers world where humans don't exist and the world is populated by animals only where as the games have pretty much moved past that. I also doubt Sonic Team would let themselves be beholden to the comics (having to account for stuff that goes on in it when coming up with stories for their games) and more so see it as ancillary material, so if any characters were to make the jump to a mainline game, I wouldn't be surprised if much of the comics events surrounding them were ignored where possible. In terms of who gets makes the jump, Tangle and Whisper both have popularity and simplicity on their side. They don't have any baggage tied to them that can't be mostly ignored so they can just be plopped into the games. Surge is probably the only other comic OC who has a shot since she also has popularity, but bringing them along also requires you bring in Kit and Starline and explain her whole deal with them and a bunch of esoteric comic stuff that a might confuse those who don't read the comics. They could say screw it and add her anyway, but I think regardless of whether they bring all 3 of them together or not, they're liable to be treated as new characters rather than expecting the player to have kept up with the comics.
First off; love the pfp. Purah for the win. Secondly; Yep, the concept of these characters coming to the games would most likely best be handled by them not having any attachment to their origin stories. I can only assume that’s what they’re doing with Sticks in the games, since BOOM was considered to be its own canon, yet she’s mentioned at the end of Frontiers.
Felt that. The two arcs I mentioned are pretty good concepts imo and fingers crossed one day SEGA/Sonic Team allow themselves to have some fun along the line
I like to think that when they say that idw is "canon," it actually means that the games and comics share events, but how those events play out arent one to one the same. For example, in the comic prequel for frontiers Sonic, Tails, and Amy catch on that Eggman was already on the starfall Islands but in the game they seem to only be going there to investigate why the emeralds were gathering there and seemingly had no idea eggman was even on the island. Both the comic and game have similar events, but the way things happened are different. So that means in the game universe, a version of the battle for angel island took place, and a version of the metal virus took place, etc.
My theory regarding Lanolin is that she, storywise, was heading towards starting a more neutral, militant, rival faction to the restoration. Alternatively, with GUN becoming more prevalent in media again she could join them. Kit and Starline are too important to cut out for Surge. Stareline is her backstory and Kit and her are enablers of each others bad choices. The best thing for both legitimately would be to not be around each other so that can't happen.
The Lanolin to GUN pipeline is one I hadn’t considered, and I feel like once the restoration officially disbands, that could be the case. Starline being in the weird “is he gone or not” limbo is why I had to cut him out. Kit though was definitely a hard cut for me
The idw comics are like most of the games to me, I absolutely love the simplicity of these characters just going in adventures, meeting new characters and fighting the bad guy of the week, or just hanging out and doing whatever the day brings, but at the same time, it can feel like a nothing burger, things stay one note for so long you don’t really expect much, there’s little growth and stuff just kind of happens but when there is a big moment the characters reset like nothing previous happened lol And with the mandates it can really hold the writers back of their true creativity to shine, and I can’t even tell what’s supposed to be canon or not with the idw comics, but I will say in general I still like the idw comics, though I prefer the classic era comics, they’re simple but they know what to do with the characters and plot, personalities don’t feel overdone and characters have their own strengths and don’t just play follow the leader with Sonic, and important moments actually stick, but that’s just me. In terms of games I’m looking forward to seeing what Sega has in store after Sonic Frontiers and Shadow Generations and I hope they get addressed soon in the comics.
For sure , and we need some more real stakes in IDW just so there can be real substance to these events. Losing a character or two never hurt anybody, but if we want them in the games, then I guess that can wait
One issue I have with IDW being canon is that they don’t include any human characters. It’s too late to pretend they were here all along, so how will they address that?
One scenario I can imagine is maybe having them be in their own pocket city or something like that. I know Shadow Generations and Tails Tube seem to be hinting at the fact that humans are most definitely still a thing
I personally adore Dr starline and I do hope he could return at some point be it in the comic or the games themselves even though he’s y’know… kinda dead
I think the biggest problem is the Nerf, you see Sonic having difficulty with a robot made by a child, it's sad, and metal is the most nerfed, metal in IDW can't destroy glass
@@Jiggyx3 Yep, but really, I'm just a huge Surge fan. I never thought I would write a fanfiction until Surge! I'm only reading Idw because of her and I don't think I ever finished a sonic game, but I certainly will if she's in a good game lol.
I dont like IDW being canon because it limits what IDW can do in its stories. They mostly focus on their original characters bc Sega is less likely to say "no" to the writers, and the game characters cant go through developments too big. I'd rather it be its own continuity and go crazy. That being said, I would not object to seeing Tangle and Whisper show up in the games (like... for real).
The freedom they have with the OCs is a good and bad thing, sorta like you referenced. I will say that Flynn did a good job with addressing Tails in both the beginning of IDW and in Frontiers though, so there’s hope somewhere in there
I like Lanolin, especially her design. I just don’t like some of her actions, especially since the writers go out of their way to make her blissfully unaware sometimes
These characters seem to be just relevant to outside of japan, and Sonic team, im sure have no idea or reason to care about the IDW cast where they would want to implement them into the game's story. Makes mores sense to just let the comic just do its own thing, without having to restrict writers the games canon
I see what you’re getting at. Especially since the Japan audience just started to actually care about Sonic as a whole not so recently. Could be detrimental to introduce too many characters at once
@Jiggyx3 I would be keen to see sega try keep consistency with what's established in the comics and even implement a char or 2 into the games, but knowing sega I feel that it's inevitable they will end up stepping on their own toes, with keeping consistent with established lore. If something established gets in the way of what they want to put into a new story, they are notorious for just ignoring/changing it, So I feel it's a fruitless effort. Just let the games have their own canon and keep the comics as their own thing imo
@joshtheoriginal10 precisely. They can’t be all gung-ho about everything anymore which sucks, but that quality is so much more important right now that the quantity
If I may give my opinion; while I know the IDW comics are currently canon, I don’t think that means you could bring their characters into the games. And if you did want to bring them into the games, you’d have to give up on the comics being exactly canon to allow for a game to netflix-style adapt their stories into the games. Reason being that, with the exception of characters like Tangle, Lanolin, and the radio birds; most IDW characters are cool in large part because of their complex backstories. Backstories the gaming audience does not know, cannot be reliably expected to learn by reading the comics themselves, and you cannot get around this by explaining their intricate backstories in brief cutscenes or god-forbid audio logs. Like, imagine there was no Adventure 2; and you learned Shadow’s backstory with some unlockable documents from Heroes detailing the adventure. That would not work. It would be no different for Whisper or Surge. So you need to adapt them into the games if you want to include them going forward. But you can’t _just_ adapt stories the comic reading audience already read; this is for them and that’d be a boring waste of a game that’ll take years to make. That’s where I think the tricky part is: you need to adapt their introductions inside a new story. Some of these are easier than others. For example; -Belle is pretty easy, even though Eggman hasn’t had amnesia, we aren’t making him have amnesia, and we especially aren’t saying he had amnesia and was cured off-screen. We can just say Belle was made by Eggman to help around one of his amusement parks; one actually designed for people. But since she was designed to be a good-hearted helper; when she found out how Eggman went about making his Eggmanland, she had a crisis and run off. All this sounds complicated; but you could establish it all in a minute-long cutscene and go from there. -Everything Diamond Cutter related needs the right game; but is generally doable. Tangle can kind of just be dropped in us as another hero you play as in an Adventure-style game. After a level getting used to her, introduce Whisper to her story, then spend around 2 levels and a boss adapting Tangle & Whisper mini-series (include Lanolin and you can basically skip Urban Warfare). Add in one last level to tie back in with whatever the A-plot of the game is and the Diamond Cutters are good to go. -Surge & Kit though…I don’t know how to adapt them without making their whole intro game Identity Crisis; a story comic fans already read. Which would be bad, to be clear. But how would you make Surge & Kit’s antagonism with Sonic, the plot with their brainwashing, everything with Starline/whoever we’re making responsible for their predicament…not take up an entire game’s story? Like, even just ending their intro game with them in a state of balancing their freedom & desire to find themselves with their hatred for Sonic, so game writers can play around with their characters properly going forward, sounds incredibly complicated. So they’re easily the trickiest to adapt; which is a shame because they’re probably the most popular.
Broke everything down in a nice, concise manner! I feel like the complexity of bringing the IDW characters to the games might get handled in a manner that you mentioned, and that Shadow gens handled the retelling of Shadow 05; a cutscene that gives a bit of background before the arc of the story happens, and leave it up to players if they want to seek out additional media. Sadly, it’s probably gonna work out that way, but at least we’ll have them in some capacity
@@Jiggyx3 Oh it would be so disappointing to introduce major IDW characters with that kind of recap cutscene. I mean a recap cutscene can work as, y'know, a recap to a character you expect most of your audience already knows; but it would be a horrible way to introduce a character. (Especially when, since neither Surge or Whisper are likely to be a focus of the game where this happens, their recap cutscenes might be even shorter and more concise than the Shadow gens recap cutscene) I can see something that absolutely _killing_ any interesting in their characters for people who aren't already familiar. Which is gonna be a lot of them; since this is a plan for putting them in front of a new audience. No, if they're brought into the games, I really think it'd have to be as if it's their first appearance; Game!Tangle first meeting Game!Whisper, Game!Surge's first meeting & fight with Sonic, etc. That's how you strike the same cord they did in comic readers with the gaming audience. That's how you get Surge in the same vein of popularity as Shadow or Metal Sonic (Silver as worst).
It'd truly be a shame, and I hope I'm wrong in my estimations. I'd rather a few side-games that maybe act as preludes to whatever main game a bunch of the cast will be in too. Your breakdown does make the most sense from a business prospective though.
The comics to me haven't had a good start and I largely blame that on the overbloated Metal Virus and Forces. Forces screwed the comic over by being the basis. Basically acting as both clean up and damage control after that game bombed. So too much time is spent on the aftermath and not enough on world building. And not long would the Metal Virus pop its ugly head at issue 13. The Metal Virus is a good idea, but it's execution is horrendous. It happens far too early to have significant impact and as a result it has no stakes because the comic just started and can't take out large locations people are familiar with cause there are none nor any characters. Oh sure a ton of them got infected, but having this story early means no one can have any serious deaths. An event like this only works if the reader is familiar enough to care about the world. The world hasn't developed so we are just seeing random locations and characters we only know so much about getting attacked. This kind of event only works way later down the line. And because it was so early this meant readers couldn't even get a big event after cause naturally we still need time to build the world not to mention that we can't have any consequences from the Metal Virus since it had none to begin with. It's a bad story that's pointless and wastes your time on hot air waiting for it to end except that it took around 17 issues to be done
It is the fact the metal virus was really traumatic for quite a few characters, but once it ends they just get over it in a heartbeat, it’s just back to the status quo, like I know most of these characters are super optimistic but man, there could be some interesting moments that leads to characters expressing themselves more and some growth, I know not every arc has to have some deep complex in depth type of moments but like, the metal virus was so intense and horrifying, and just for these characters to go about their daily lives is like, wow. But I feel bad for the idw comics team honestly, the team is working hard and doing their best with what they have and what they’re allowed to do, but man those mandates hold them back majorly, and I understand why the mandates are there, but I wish Sega would let them do some things they would like to do, cause I like the idw comics but it feels like so many things are happening but not happening at the same time that idk how to feel about it most of the time lol
@superherochestsymbol1032 that's why I said it happens too early. When the universe has just started and you pull a stunt like this you can't have any real consequences. You know that they can't risk it as there's nothing to risk whatsoever. The comic is wasting your time with a bad event and not giving itself time to build itself
@sho829 @superherochestsymbol1032 you both bring up some good points. In retrospect…yeah the metal virus did pop up too early. Imagine it started at like, issue 60 and someone like Belle was a serious casualty (I think it’d be fine since she’s a puppet). Arguably, that make her death more emotional and seriously tick off a lot of other characters since Eggman was technically the one to kill his own daughter.
@Jiggyx3 that's why when it happens to characters like Tangle and Jewel you feel nothing as they haven't had enough time to really get fleshed out and I hate that. This event sucks cause we don't have any stakes due to this as a problem. Not to mention it lasts 17 issues.
@Jiggyx3 not to mention this story came out during "The Virus" so everyone who wants an escape from the real world could not enjoy it! Wanna see Sonic and friends go on adventures? TOO BAD! YOU GET NOTHING, BUT PAIN! REMINDERS OF HOW BAD REALITY IS RIGHT NOW! oh and as a result the wait for issues got longer. As for actual consequences? 4. You get 4. Starline's detraction from Eggman which would have happened whether Metal Virus happened or not, the Zeti still being around, but who cares, Surge and Kit have it in their bodies, and the biggest one? Dry trees. That's allyou get for this mid story
@@Jiggyx3 Not necessarily. They really would only need to introduce them in a way that summarizes the character and how they know the game cast. As opposed to randomly name-dropping them as if we're supposed to know them and know that whatever they're from, be it IDW for Tangle or Boom for Sticks, is canon to the mainline series, or that a version of them exists in mainline. Yes, I'm ranting about Frontiers writing.
Telling the comic writers to not write the stories they want because they're wasted on a comic book is an insane anti-art stance. Like "Nooooo, you wasted the cool idea YOU came up with on this pathetic medium that doesn't hold a candle to video games"
If that’s how that part of the video came across, I’d like to clear up that, that’s wasn’t my intention. I’d rather we got these stories in some capacity other than none and frankly, as optimistic of me as it would be, SonicTeam/Sega would NEVER allow a Sonic-Zombie game to exist in game since they know that’s where the majority of the audience lies. Parents buy these games for their kids, and I doubt Sonic Team wants to miss out on that market.
No, they shouldn't be cannon. They're from a whole different media that fans don't care enough to read. Not every game fan reads these comics. If they're gonna be in the games they're gonna need to reintroduce themselves. They've got no business being cannon, they'll ruin everything.
They’d for sure need some kinds of easily accessible medium that game only players could look into for who these people are. That, or have them do a basic introduction of themselves in a character bio or something
@@KingOfFools784I don’t think that was his decision, SEGA seems to just wanna make everything canon regardless of if it makes sense or is a good idea. Otherwise why would Sonic Prime apparently be canon?
@@KingOfFools784 Im well aware of that it Ian's work on Archie is actually my fav pieces of Sonic but his idw work. Anti-Sonic works because he had reason and depth. Surge was literally just made to be a discount Sonic. Im also certainly not bitter given the fact despite my gripes with IDW i like some arcs like scrapnik and some of the zombot arc
About IDW's placement relative to the games - *Frontiers still hasn't happened yet.* Every IDW issue so far (barring the Classic comics or the short Frontiers tie-in) have all taken place between Forces and Frontiers, I believe Ian Flynn said so himself on an old episode of his podcast. I think this is somewhat shown by the fact that Sage hasn't been present whatsoever in the comics. IDW still hasn't caught up to Frontiers and we don't know when it will.
I hope it will soon, I really want the tone and growth of the characters from Frontiers to continue in the idw comics, that’s just me though.
It's basically implied that everything after Winter Jam is post-Frontiers cause they showed Mûrder of Sonic the Hedgehog characters.
@@superherochestsymbol1032it is JUST YOU cause the characters were terribly written.
@@KOTSOSMC2002 Nope! TMOSTH is not canon! Yes, Barry and the Conductor/his wife do appear, so the *characters* from TMOSTH are canon, but the game itself definitively is not, as confirmed by I believe both Ian Flynn and Evan Stanley? Or maybe it was Katie, the social media manager. I forgot who exactly confirmed it, but it's confirmed nonetheless. Supposedly, *similar* events did canonically happen *before* Frontiers, from what I've heard.
@@FlamingFoxProd Evan said it isn't, Ian said it is. Here's the reason why it is canon: Cause it's not stated otherwise and it doesn't contradict anything. That is literally how it has always worked in the entire franchise's history. Shuffle, Battle, Rush, Advance, Rivals, all of them dropped in a similar fashion.
Yes, it is canon. Only reason y'all think it isn't is because it was released on the first of April. We don't have to be told it's canon. The fact that it's a spin-off that got released in the modern day with what's obviously the main cast makes it canon.
whisper kinda fits the" avatar stand in " more so than lanolin to me
I'm pretty sure that's kinda the whole reason her character exists, to keep the wisp related weapons mechanics, same with tangled for the werehog.
@KidKuma never saw it like that🤔 you may be onto something there tbh
I'd say Wisper is a representation of Force's as a whole as her background takes place entirely within its narrative while also being very similar to Infinite's.
@plates7245 nice take! Forces has the potential there with the story and all, but it just wasn’t well executed. Makes sense that they’d want to keep some of the elements from there
@@TiredMoonRabbit i honestly never thought of tangle being like the werehog before but it makes sense
8:27 idw is currently after forces and before frontiers
To add on to this, as confirmed by Ian Flynn on Bumblecast, when Sage appears in the comics, Frontiers will have happened.
There’s also a voice line in direct reference to Tangle in Frontiers.
@mavrickindigo @BeamR265OLD very interesting. Smart of them to get that out there since it offers plenty of leeway for how much they can do from here on out
@@DrChaotix21 at some point idw will be before and after frontiers, unless the comic gets cancelled soon or somethibt
If you put Surge in a game, Kit HAS to follow. He doesn’t get a choice in the matter. He was “programmed” to make sure Surge had a friend, and adding Surge to the games without Kit would entirely screw with that. Though I do want to say that the IDW comics being canon, to me, is a really good thing. There can be fun interactions and interesting world building added through the comics, that can play a role in what happens in the games, and vice versa. It’s just nice to keep it all to one timeline.
Fair point and I did consider that! All of the decisions were made based on how much they’ve grown in the story, and Kit just doesn’t have that currently. I would of course LOVE them both to come into the games since their powers are sick as hell
No, Idw is one thing, Games are a different matter.
That’s easily hand waved.
Player: “Where’s the blue one?”
Surge: “I’m not his mother.”
@@partyrock4144he's at home base making her food for after her battle, the little guy doesn't really seem to like fighting much anyway, more of a planner.
One thing that I feel hurts the comics being canon is that it makes certain characters hard to introduce in the games. Sure, characters like Tangle don’t really have much backstory, and Whisper’s origin could easily be a flashback, but an issue arises when you get to characters like Surge and Kit. Their backstory is incredibly important to their characters, and yet it’d be hard to fit an explanation into a game since their backstory is pretty long and involves a lot of context from the comics, including Starline who would be pretty hard to justify explaining in game considering he’s currently, y’know, dead. You’d need a pretty hefty recap to get non-comic readers caught up on certain characters, which makes them hard to introduce into more mainline projects
to be fair a lot of sonic games don't introduce the lore of their characters past their first games
I'd much rather that the IDW comics weren't canon and that the games simply took elements from them
It was in 2018 and now in 2022 it create numerous contradictions
Just introduce them like you would any other Sonic character. They don't have to show Shadow's entire backstory every time he shows up in a game.
@MattGonYT I feel like this is why game manuals should’ve never left. Most characters stories can be summed up quite well in those. Maybe we should even go back to having character bios in the games too
The thumbnails just like the Good, the Bad, and the Lanolin. 😂
My girl is in a perpetual state of “do the people still hate me?” Lmao 💀
@@Jiggyx3 I personally don’t hate her, it’s nice to have a character with flaws, but at the same time, sis *really* needs a good hug or something lol
@@superherochestsymbol1032 She WILL need that hug after Neo is Mimic reveal lol
Lanolin best girl.
@sliceninja4546 A cute and one of the best. Alongside Amy.
10:44 the 2024 annual is implying that kit will try to orchestrate disastors for surge to avert and save people from, setting hik up as a villain
I’d love to see that happen and it’s honestly within his character. If that’s his motive, then he may move up the list for me
8:49 technically in term of the whole lore I do believe Sonic 3 also takes place extremely close to the event of Sonic 2 since they're both heavily linked with the Death Egg falling into Angel Island and presumably Sonic & Tails taking chase immediately after Sonic 2, not that it really matter. Man I just realized I'm the "erm acktually 🤓" meme lol. Anyway good vid 👍
It does! In fact, 2 & 3 take place right after one another since super sonic arrives on Angel Island after crashing the death egg in Sonic 2. Happy you enjoyed the video as well🙂↕️
I honestly think Belle has a really good chance of getting in a game due to how big Sage is after her debut game
There can be a really interesting dynamic between two of Eggman’s “daughters.” One he cares for and the other he doesn’t.
Belle can hold resentment towards Sage because of this, while Sage would consider Belle her sister the same way she does Orbot and Cubot. Belle is more a mechanic/inventor, while Sage is more digitally/hacking based.
Makes sense in my book! That’s a good setup for a story about coming to understand one’s place in the world and the circumstances they find themselves in given the context around how they came to be.
I think lanolin really needs some attention alone, one reason I think the hate hasn’t stopped or let up is because after her first sort of important role where the new diamond cutters were established, she’s stuck only sharing panels with other characters, only making it worse when her only notable lines are one off commands trying to keep tangle in line, rather than allowing her to come full circle in a arc, she makes bad decisions you’d expect at the start of a character arc, but it doesn’t get expanded on enough, to the point by now it’s hard to tell if the writers are giving her character one massive character arc, or if they don’t know what to do with her
I think it may be the latter unfortunately. They’re in a hard spot I can imagine since a Lanolin one-shot may/may not sell well. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t maybe
she better have an arc with duo where she kills him, i want mimic DEAD. But it would also be good for lanolin ig, and would allow her, whisper, and silver to mend thejr bridges a bit.
I kind would argue Surge + Kit being a package deal as well. While Surge can 100% stand on her own without Kit, I feel like Kit's the kinda of character that benefits more from having someone to actively bounce off of. He's actively programmed to be supportive of Surge or someone that he feels can fill Surge's spot if she's removed.
Would make a good secondary antag role, if someone removed Surge from the main narrative. Then Kit just spirals a bit as he either try to support someone he thinks he can trust (ala Knuckle's 1st encounter with Eggman), or become a completely unhinged antag that's just ready to lash out against the world.
Gives Kit a reason to be an re-occuring antag in a plot, but it might also get Surge to consider the fox's feelings more actively since she doesn't give him too much thought of he's not already in the room with her.
Oh most definitely. My thought process was just that he didn’t have much outside of that currently. I em turned a few times, but I’m about 4/5 issues behind the current arc, so that would explain that flub. I hear that Kits morphing into a solid character though!
Tangle akin to Silver in combat experience? The kid who is often stuck in a bad future and is often always fighting in a time of misery? That Silver?
Indeed. Bro gets washed by Sonic and I guess draws(?) with Shadow of you want to use 06 as a point of reference. Neither one has the combat experience of a Knuckles or Shadow, but do utilize their gimmicks to the maximum potential. I doooo have a video on this if you led like to know more about my standpoint 👀
@@Jiggyx3 Sonic never beats Silver in 06 canonically.
He got saved by Amy blocking Silver in their first encounter
He got saved by Shadow blocking Silver in their second encounter
And then he never fights Silver again in that game.
@itsfayevi ah so, that wasn’t me saying Sonic did in 06, I was talking about Shadow. That was in reference to Sonic Gens
I'm going to have to disagree with you on excluding Rough and Tumble. If you're going to have Clutch, then they can very well serve as an underling bosses for his faction since Clutch employs genuine people while Eggman is strictly robots. Also, if your going to have Surge, you NEED to include Kit since their pretty much a package deal.
Jewel, I can see working as a mission control for the Restoration and the Neo Diamond cutters and basically distributes objectives. Belle and Dr. Starline are pretty much the only two I can agree with, unless they have Belle serving as a mechanic role for obtaining and upgrading gear.
I’m game. I appreciate how they’re basically the team rocket of the IDW-verse and they do have some decent moments. Given that the 10 I mentioned are the most notable newcomers of the series, I had to make some unfortunate cuts😔 putting Clutch in with no named minions was the only choice I could make given the circumstances, but he was the best villain outside of surge/mimic.
As for the Kit cut, same thing honestly. As of rn, Surge clears him as a character, BUT having both is an absolute dream
I recall a podcast episode with Ian specifically stating the comics weren’t canon. Is there something that came out recently that changes that decision?
And no tangled being mentioned in frontiers doesn’t count it was a cute Easter egg but doesn’t make the whole comic series canon
Ian has said it's canon, it's been referenced in Canon, the Sonic social media has stated it's canon, etc.
@@SillyTron_ thank you
@@SillyTron_ so Flynn changed his mind? When did this happen?
I mostly agree but i say instead of getting information from robotic Chao we can get information or quests from Jewel in the games so she can be in the games since she is Tangle's best friend she would appear in the games in some kind of way anyways +excluding Kit while Surge is there would be weird their stories interwined so if Surge is there Kit must appear in the games too
and lastly Dr.Starline MUST come back in some ways he was such a good villian everytime he was on a scene you felt like something bad is going to happen he was a real threat and a breath of fresh air
(also i would've probably exclude Clutch but i dont mind including him too its always good to have more standalone villians)
Ooooo that Jewel one is a solid choice! As for my Kit omission, hard cuts had to be made, but I hear that he’s forming into this solid character in the current arc, so I may have to retract that omission soon. If we can get Starline back in a game where that’s the whole plot, then that’d be sick too!
Let Starline stay dead. He was a good villian, but arc and personality are finished. He was there to criticise and highlight Eggmans personality traits in a natural way, a good way of establishing what Eggman is and how he will act in the comics. And he died after serving this role. Any comeback will have to either basically reinvent the character or just pointlessly repeat all of the old bits again.
@@Jiggyx3I dont think Kit is an interesting character either and i dont really care about him but his story is interwined with Surge so only having one of them would be weird unless they kill him off or smth
@@АлексейЮрловскийHis arc is not finished at all he started to became independent from Eggman and he became much more interesting but before we can get development on that he vanished he would be a very good addition to the series
@Relicsplace I get what you’re saying. From what I understand, Kit is kind of coming into his own in the current arc, so I may have to back peddle my statement soon
I don't believe it will actually be canon in practice. Whenever a show, movie, or game has a comic series, they always say that it's canon until the original show, movie or games overrides what happens in the comic. Canon in name only or canon until it's not.
That's already not the case tho. The EggNet (an IDW creation) was integral for the story of Sonic Frontiers and had a whole Egg Memo regarding it, Tangle was mentioned, Tangle, Whisper and Surge have appeared in games (Sonic Dash, Sonic Speed Battle, Sonic Speed Simulator), Tangle and Whisper have their own merch too for what it's worth. Frontiers was the first mainline game after IDW started and the comics already affected it in some ways.
Egg Net was a thing in Archie as well
@@playerback7722 That's irrelevant here. Archie was its own universe, IDW introduced it to the main timeline and Frontiers immediately used it.
SEGA has been attempting to make things work together recently. It hasn't always worked, but they're trying.
@Obi-Wan_Kenobi I can see them doing a “yeah this runs side by side with the games” and never introducing comic characters as well unfortunately
Kit's whole deal atm - or at least what they're setting up for - is to be the one character that prolongs Surge's need to keep existing. If he can't be there to see essentially *herself* through, then it all comes crashing down for him. I think Surge's character arc is crucial to Kits, and vice-versa. The trio package comic they released with stories about Surge & Kit, Knuckles and Mimic explains what I mean better than I can.
I’ll be sure to check that out then. I have to definitely read these last few issues of the comic currently, as I was waiting for the riders arc to finish before I completed it, but seems like I’ve missed out on a decent bit of info
9:00 it can't be after Battle for Angel Island because everyone still thought Eggman was the reformed Mr Tinker. All games must happen after the Metal Virus saga is over.
I'd say TSR happens between Metal Virus and Bad Guys.
I like that deduction honestly. That would also explain where the emeralds went after the end of the metal virus arc
Can't cause Zavok was on Team Eggman that time for some reason while IDW he tried to killed him numerous times
@@Jiggyx3 The IDW comics is currently having some people have the emeralds. For instance, Rouge has one when she trickced Tangle into helping her
@@playerback7722 We can safely assume any game made before Frontiers was made before IDW was rendered canon.
@@mavrickindigo IDW was canon the moment it began, which was during and after Forces' release.
Removing Kit is a crime
He’s apparently getting good develop lent in the latest issues, and I’m about 4/5 behind so that was a flub on my end
Kits is meh same with Surge
I have 3 lists of IDW characters who should be in the games:
In:
. Surge *&* Kit (They’re a package, you can’t have one without the other)
. Tangle
. Whisper
. Lanolin
. Mimic
Still in but relegated to just Plot or NPCs:
. Jewel
. Starline (Because he’s currently dead)
. Clutch
Out:
. Rough & Tumble
. Belle
Fair list honestly! Those first “5” have always had the most potential
Belle should be in because of how she can bounce off sage. Sage values family more than anything and Belle has been doing everything to distance herself from her family. In fact how Eggman interacts with sage is a interesting middle ground between his cartoonishly evil portrayal and his Mr. Tinker persona. A “little sister” could be exactly what brings Belle out of being so uninteresting according to you (I actually find her very interesting but I’m starting to believe that’s just preference)
Solid counterpoint! I hope that we do get some kind of interaction with the two soon, whether that be in game or comics 😭
Cant wait for more content!
I appreciate the excitement and for you watching 😭 I’ll be sure to keeping handing out banger after banger 🔥
A team choxoixs visual novel game with a mix of spying would be cool since you wanna use them.
Also I feel they could have used Gadget from forces (the red wolf)
Personally I would keep the avatar forever but oh well putting IDW could be interesting.
Just hope it's written well.
That’s all I can really ask for; Well written stories that make the characters worth caring about, ya know? I wouldn’t mind a swappable avatar model for Sonic in these games though!
I personally have no issue whatsoever with the comics being canon, what to me always made Sonic stand out from Mario IMO was it's focus on characterization, lore and continuity, so allowing a space for these aspects to breathe and shine is a major plus for me. (Though I do wish SEGA would get over their fear of the human race and allow for human characters and background dressing again not named Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik or Witchkart)
On the subject of timeline placements, while I won't speak on Frontiers since that seems to have already been pointed out, I do want to mention the comic does sprinkle hints of when some game games happen relative to each other. For instance, the 30th Anniversary issue which takes place shortly after Mania + show off the Hooligans and Metal Knuckles and Tails Doll, showing that not only does Mania take place after Sonic the Fighters and Sonic R but given Bean's comment Fighters might be one of the earlier spin offs.
Onto the final subject of the IDW making their video game debut, while I mostly agree there are two characters I disagree on. First off is Kitsaumi, they are a packaged deal in my eyes and you can't have one without the other. Sure he is support for Surge and can't be anything more but thats the point and the horror of the character. Starline has robbed him of being independent. However, on the other hand, he genuinely grounds Surge and keeps her getting herself killed with her reckless actions and her trauma from swallowing her. Without Kit Surge just isn't going to last and will self destruct.
The other character that I feel that needs to come in is Belle. I know that she can't do anything gameplay wise but IMO the Sonic games were the ones that didn't focus entirely on gameplay anyways. (the Adventure duology, S3&K, etc.) Belle is the unwanted daughter of Eggman and what happens when family seeking Sage finds her? Now that Ivo is more receptive to the idea of being a father has his opinion on Belle changed and if so will he go out of his way to make her rejoin the "family" like he did to Metal? (reprogram her rebellious streak out of her to be loyal) While making Belle a damsel in distress is not a popular trope in today's culture, tropes are tools and this family drama deserves to be center stage more then anything Clean Sweep can come up with. (Plus it potentially allows for Gemeral to make a reappearance as a bonus)
Appreciate you voicing your opinion and information! As for the two characters, I just figured out thanks to this video that both Kit and Belle have tons of fans, which is good! I only omitted them to try and keep some uniformity between the diamond cutters, which would fit the Sonic’s franchise’s emphasis on everyone “belonging to a team”. I hear that Kit is getting a lot of character development recently, which makes me happy, and someone also brought up that Belle could have a sort of rivalry with Sage
Like with a lot of people are saying. Kit and Bella should make the ‘in’ list, unless they get killed off beforehand.
I didn’t know they had this many fans, but it’s good to see that people are just blindly agreeing with me! I’d want all the characters to get in, but I know most things are based on how popular the developers think a character is
Checks out for the most part, though it is hard to imagine Surge without Kit, most of the others on the out list are fairly situational - except for Rough & Tumble, who would be cool rival characters, and I could see fitting in game using Clutch... assuming Clutch survives his almost inevitable death at this point. Kit is Tails to Surge as Sonic, that was the whole point behind their original conception and both characters serve as foils to their more clear-cut heroic counterparts. Having them both show up as rivals in a Heroes-esque game I can see working phenomenally. As for Lanolin, yeah, seeing the full Diamond Cutters team show up in games would be great, but first I feel like she needs to be given a redemption arc in the comics first, otherwise I seriously doubt it'd go well UNLESS she got one through the game. The one minor issue I have, though. Sage and Belle. Say anything you want, but they are the singular thing that throw a wrench into this whole thing simply for them both being Eggman's creations and his portrayal around them both is a bit contradictory. Otherwise, yes. I want them all in the games! It'd be awesome, not much more to say than that.
Glad you found some value out of the video! Same here though, I agree. Lanolin should most definitely have some kind of turn around so that the masses don’t continue to hate on her and Belle would be very redundant since we have Sage, like you mentioned
Kid character development when I need it
(Commenting after I watched this video, fyi responders)
If we're talking about the characters you'd like in a game [first I'm shooken that you didn't include Whisper in the discussion, lol.] but with the characters included, I feel like even though you don't see much going on with Kit at the moment, not including him and including Surge takes away from Surge herself.
Let's say you're right, and Kit brings nothing to the table other than wanting to help Surge and being smart. Surge has nothing to go on then. Kit was made specifically to support her, and in the comics she's grown to listen to his plans and use him for support. She beat Metal Sonic using Kit for help, she got the upper hand and overpowered Starline to get his glove with Kit's help, using Kit's plan to not only get to the point where they were going to eliminate Sonic, Eggman and Starline in one area, but when she wanted to be a hero in the racing section of the comics Kit again made a plan to help her break out of Clutch's control, which even got Mimic almost in trouble, forcing him to go along with the new Diamond Cutters to Clutch's ship or risk Surge exposing him.
Kit is to Surge what Tails is to Sonic, just not as much. Kit isn't able to stand on his own at the moment, and who knows how long it'll be before he can become independent, but at the same time Surge can't really stand much on her own either, she'll rashly go into things and get into trouble without someone there to keep her from constantly going berserk. So if you include Surge, I still believe you should include Kit.
I'm fine with most everyone else, but I will say if Whisper isn't in a game then you can't include Mimic, since his whole goal is to get revenge on her. So I'd swap Mimic out and put Rough & Tumble in his place, to act as mini bosses/goons for Clutch still.
But I did include Whisper at the end😭 everything you said was valid though! I’ve been waiting for the riders arc to clonclude, so that flub is on me tbh. In a perfect world, everyone makes a seamless transition over to the games, but we can only hope
tangle is mentioned in frontiers and i want both a game with plot involving the comic characters and for the comics to catch up to and move past frontiers
Ideally the best outcome for all the players. That way people who read the comics and those who don’t can all have a refresh of sorts
Just imagining Tangle and Sticks meeting, since both were mentioned, lol.
@Fang1st YOOOOO you may have just cooked
tbh i like the angle that they seem to be going with kit in the annual, where it's implied he's going to diverge from surge as she goes anti-hero and he sticks villain in order to give surge someone to fight against and get positive affirmation for doing so, with his kind of detatched personality concluding its the most logical way to keep surge happy based on how she recieved people's praise in the riders arc. nothing's come of it yet but i think kit has enough substance to keep surge and him a package deal in the games. i see why you think he's kind of lacking tho, surge is a show-stealer and kit hasn't shined that bright so far.
I haven’t caught up with the riders arc entirely as I’m waiting for a couple of more issues to drop, but that’s good to know! The “self sacrificing friend” trope is actually one of my favorite in media too
@@Jiggyx3 2024 annual has so many good little reads! my only problem is that they refer to unpublished comics as of release, which was really weird, but if you're reading it later with those unreleased issues then that's a solved problem!
@oisinman5 so much reading to do, yet so little time 😭 I truly am excited to get my hands on those though!
IDW has been stated to take place after Forces but before Frontiers. Currently Frontiers is the furthest along in the continuity. They’ve mentioned Sage will show up eventually, but she isn’t in IDW rn cuz Frontiers hasn’t happened yet, but that’s apparently a long way off
As for characters I’d want to see in the games, I’d love Tangle and Whisper to be playable at some point. Whisper especially could end up being an improvement on the Forces Avatar, being able to use different Wisps in her gun. It could be some cool customisation. But the sonic games can barely even get characters like Knuckles or Shadow to be playable these days so I’m not holding much hope 😔
No, for Tangle to show up you'd have to get her to reintroduce herself.
Shadow literally became playable this year with his own game!
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1xwhat I meant was, that characters other than Sonic haven’t been playable in ages. Sonic Frontiers has Amy, Tails and Knuckles in the dlc, and we’ve recently gotten Shadow Generations, but the last time they were playable was Sonic 06. So.. my point was the even if IDW characters were in the games, there’s no telling when they would be playable, if ever
@Slimeonian Whisper would so good in a Sonic Heroes remake especially. Imagine her as a flight-type but being able to use her other wispon weapons too? She’d probably be broken lmao
@@Slimeonian no one event wants them in the games 1st of all.
If an IDW comic character like Tangle or Whisper end up in a game, I'd be very on board to buy it.
I haven't bought a Sonic game since Mania, nothing's really doing it for me. I don't even read the comics, not sure if I'd keep up with them, but just knowing of the characters, I'd love to play as or alongside them in a really good plot.
And that’s absolutely fair! I will say that Shadow Generations is a good time if it La peaked your interest even remotely, but Tangle and Whisper selling you on getting back into things is a good start as well. My fingers are crossed 🤞🏾
I think most of the IDW is confirmed to take place before frontiers but some of it does happen after I’m pretty sure
I just caught onto that thanks to this video! Glad I was able to be corrected
Okay but I would love a rough and tumble boss fight.
I can imagine that it’d be something of a goofy Crash Bandicoot type of boss fight where they have slight chance to damage each other just because they’re doing too much on stage lol
I would really love to see tangle and whisper in the games because that would be really awesome
I feel like heir dynamic and abilities would transfer over to a game really really well
@@Jiggyx3 indeed they would be tons of fun to plat.
i think the time line well be more concert once we get more mainline enters and then the comics time line well probably be allowed to go forward.
Honestly. It’ll happen before the end of this decade for sure, but the thought of being able to play as these characters is exciting
Tangle and Whisper have a great chance of making it into a game, I don't know if Lanolin makes it into it but I think those two do, not only are they probably the most popular IDW original characters, especially when it comes to shipping, but those two are perfect for an open world game.
After the final horizons update of Sonic frontiers and especially the open zone white space of Shadow generations, it is clear that Sega fully intends to make open world the future of Sonic.
And Tangle climbing abilities are perfect for an open world game and they can easily make creative use of the wisp powers in an open world game
I love the way you think. Maybe all we needed to get more characters was a full playground for them to be in 😭
I heard someone say that the Doom Morph from Shadow Generation
is a perfect sample of how Tangle the Lemur could play
also, now I'm curious at your view at the statement of Prime being canon to the games and IDW
Oooo maybe show was the prototype for her🤔🤔🤔 ahhhh man. Sonic Prime is something. I’ll have to power through the last few episodes of the most recent season, but I’d be down to take a crack at analyzing that!
This is a good video but I do disagree on the points that Starline is one noted, him being obsessed with Eggman is definitely a key trait but I feel like you overlooked what he did with Surge and Kit adds a lot to him: he abducted two random civilians, brainwashed them and made them into cyborgs, he is shown to be overall manipulative but also flounder when Eggman confronted him. I don’t know what you personally define as one noted but I feel like he at least has a personality with some depth even if his screen time been short. I also don’t like the “in and out” section because I feel who Sega wants to add is ultimately up to them or how they view fan reception but I feel like your bias kinda clouded the fact all the characters you think are one noted would benefit from being in the games. (Also no offense but no way in HELL would they not include Kit with Surge. They are a pair and Kit could get more to do if he was added in a game) But that said still a good vid, I’ve been watching your stuff since the female sonic character video and I’m glad you talked about the comics.
No offense taken, and I said it to someone else , but I’m glad that no one has just blindly agreed with me! I called Starline one-note because (almost) everything he did was related to Eggman in some way. You could argue that makes Eggman himself one-note as well honestly, but the thing that makes him different imo is the fact that his goal isn’t to destroy Sonic, it’s to rule the world and he does it for himself.
Starline is def a character that I’d love to see fleshed out more since his potential was cut way too short. While admittedly, there was bias when it came to the list, I attempted to be as objective as possible with facts that we currently have in comics.
The Kit omission was a hard cut, but as I’m about 4/5 issues behind, I was not familiar with his game as of the current issues
I mean there's definitely some cons and pros but i do love the fact it's canon.
Which is completely fair I may add. Neither medium is perfect, but I do like what I’ve seen conceptually overall thus far
I feel like all 10 of those characters deserve a place in the games, playable or not.
And that’s completely fair! I know Sonic Team (if they do it) wouldn’t introduced everyone at the same time since that’d be an over-saturation of characters way too quickly, but if we’re drip-fed characters then that’s fine too
Personally, I'm a bit biased due to not being super in love with the comics. Despite being considered canon, I feel like it either adds nothing or just holds them back due to being tied to the games. They still feel like two different entities to me. Not many will agree, but I would prefer if any characters brought over weren't supposed to be the same person. For example, if tangle shows up outside of a reference, it would be someone with the same traits as their comic version with a different backstory or something of the sort to fit into game canon. I think there would be too much baggage if you tried to bring over the character wholesale into the games.
I actually like that. They can be slightly different versions with simpler backstories so that they fit a bit better into the overall story. People would find it easier to understand as well
I feel like the stories in IDW just be adapted into a few games, with a little less story
Pretty cool idea honestly . I would want the full metal virus story though😭 I’m just a sucker for zombies
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it! Hope you stick around for more of the fire videos on the way!
Its a good thing cuz it could lead to a cod zombies clone based off the metal virus arc
Either that or or or…. a dynasty warriors type of deal as well👀
@Jiggyx3 that could be cool too, or a l4d clone, or a Ghost of Tsushima legends type game
@RealKingCRK There are so many possibilities that it irks me we haven’t gotten any of this yet 😭
@Jiggyx3 also these games could be the return of the avatar, which was a cool concept, imagine the avatar returns to help clear cities for the restoration
@RealKingCRK I wouldn’t mind the Avatar returning too. Creating your own character is always nice, but I feel like it should be a bonus that you can access after a certain point and not a main feature
How did you forget 1/2 of sonic's power couple?
I included her, I promise 😭 (if this is about whisper)
It being canon is perfect since I adore it, but my only concern is the voices should the IDW characters appear in a game. Whisper has to sound like 2B, Starline has to be German because it just fits, Surge being anything BUT generic angry girl would probably mess with my understanding of reality, Lanolin can stay in the comics, and Tangle is Australian to me because idk I couldn't think of anything else when I was reading.
Not the random Lanolin stray😭 pretty spot on with everything else though
@Jiggyx3 Tbh I'd probably have her with a stern but exhausted voice. Really wound up and strict and fed up with all the chaos.
@Kitty255Again Makes sense for her current character. Any fan VA castings specifically?
@@Jiggyx3 Nah not really. Idk any voice actors to save my life, let alone female ones. I know Troy Baker???
@Kitty255Again lmao well that’s fair. Troy Baker is a solid one to know 😭
you almost not including whisper on the IN list was gonna start a rant, you did that intentionally to put tangle and whisper fans on edge, them 2 i'd say are a duo just like sonic and tails, mighty and ray, silver and blaze, shadow and rouge + omega, tangle and whisper are just goated and have made me cry a few times reading the comic's
That, my friend, is the art of suspense building 🙂↕️ you’re right about them being one of the best duos/trios though! Quite literally the golden retriever + black cat combo and I love their dynamic
I can agree a little bit but that because I don't know if that idw team can do story adaptation of current games story i.e sonic frontier and yes I attempted to ask Ian Flynn but never got my answer so yeah
I feel as though the only course of action for the IDW folks to show up in game would be to just throw them in, and have a specific character bio in-game detailing a bit more about them, as well as maybe a couple of panels from the comic that they were introduced in. Sorta like how the mega collection games did back in the day
You are kind of misinformed. No where was it said that they always want the sonic comics to be ahead of the games. In fact, currently the comics are behind frontiers and Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog. Sage clearly being nowhere in the comics is also an obvious clue to this.
I also consider both surge & kit a package deal, considering his entire character is to support surge, so…
THE GOAT
@charismaentertainer1657 I’ve since learned 😔 I apologize for this transgression. My brain probably flipped the games + comics, hence the flub, but we informed now so that’s the best part.
As for the Kit+Surge, yeah I get that. I knew some hard cuts had to be made, but Kit apparently is shaping up to be a decent character in the current issues from what I’m hearing
Personally, I don’t think the IDW Comics creating & using what would’ve been great game stories is a fault with IDW. It would be a poor deal if IDW Sonic could only be canon if the stories it made weren’t as good the games & would just result in a boring canon Sonic Comic. IDW Stories being too good compared to the games is more of game issue, and the people incharge of the games should buck up with their stories (which tbf, they have recently).
Also, there’s really nothing stopping Sega/Sonic Team from adapting stories like ‘The Battle For Angel Island’ or ‘The Metal Virus’ into full on games. It’s just the hubris of Sega of Japan & Sonic Team to not do that, which is there fault
Also also, I’m pretty sure the current timeline status of the IDW Sonic in the main canon is that it is all still Post-Forces, Pre-Frontiers and that a small time jump for Post-Frontiers is planned to happen soon. It’s just that the IDW Writers want to finish the stories they’re telling & have a smooth transition into the next phase for IDW Sonic, rather than interrupt the comic whenever a new game comes out (which by the way, they already make special Tie-In comics for new games, so nothing is really lost)
@theevildalek5425 I appreciate all of your insight! You’re right on the IDW stories for sure; I’m just frustrated because, although the recent game stories have been good, I’ve always loved the idea of a Sonic zombie apocalypse, even as a kid. Flynn being on the game narrative team now is a good thing, and I hope they can give him a bit more freedom soon
how i see it is that tangle and stick are canon but not the storys. these character will appear as sonics friends but not acknowledge how they met.
Mmmmmm interesting take. Maybe like a “oh it’s been a while since I’ve seen you” kinda deal whenever Sonic runs into them
That's just not correct but alright
Metal sonic is so good in these comics and so is most of the characters (metal virus shadow)
Metal has gotten some pretty fire moment ngl! Especially towards the end of the metal virus
(Commenting this before watching, fyi responders)
My only issue with Forces is sort of like what happened to the Halo games, where in 5 you needed to read like 15 different books to know everything going on. If any IDW comic exclusive character ever came to a game, let's just say Starline for example, it'd be a bit out of place. I know they've done this before, if you just play some of the games you probably don't know who Trip is and she was brought back recently in the games, and you can get away with doing it with Tangle probably, but some characters like Starline, Surge, Whisper, would definitely need some form of explanation to include them if they ever came to the games, like Eggman's memos in Frontiers, or some form of collectable to get some backstory on who they are and such.
It's not impossible, and I'd love to see it happen, but it'd be pretty hard to do I think. And if IDW is canon but continues to add things that don't get included/mentioned in the games then it'd grow disconnected. Or worse, if Sonic in the next game just randomly references the Metal Virus out of nowhere and no one reacts or goes further into detail, a lot of people would just have no idea what they're talking about, lol.
All very solid points, my friend. I think the egg memos and/or character bios are the least intrusive way to go about this kind of thing. If players are genuinely curious about the law new characters they’ll see in game, then they’ll have all the info they need right there in said game
I prefer them not being canon. Seeing as it's incredibly hard for the average person to read every comic, it is unreasonable to expect everyone to read it. Also the comics don't do shadow any justice.
I haven't read much of it, it's not available in my region. It's sort of isolating in a way to make them a required reading for anything.
I get you. If they somehow able to properly catch people up in who these characters are if/when they show up the games, then I feel as though it’d be fine? But that’s a whole different task at hand.
Shadow has gotten done completely wrong in the comics though for sure
That's the thing though, you don't have to, the only people who will want to read the comics are people who are deep diving into lore and connects, the average player doesn't need to do that, most people didn't read the game manuals for the older games so this isn't that different. Don't view it as a burden, view it as an external experience.
Ian has said that IDW isn't needed if IDW characters and stuff appear in the game.
In my opinion it is a very good thing
Good take. Fingers crossed that we can see the seeds they’ve planted with this decision grow soon! A mention isn’t enough, we gotta be able to play as these characters 🙂↕️
Neat, I was mentioned.
@rossjones8656 Had to include my goat in there 🐐
@Jiggyx3 aww, this is the first time I'm noticed like this so thanks. Also I do like your content.
You’ve been here for quite a few videos, and the SSJ Blue is memorable lmao. I’m glad that im creating things you enjoy and of course appreciate you tuning in!🙂↕️
@Jiggyx3 thanks again.
Idw is currently before frontiers. They don't want the comics to be ahead of the games now.
What really???!
Makes sense. Having to worry about messing with canon from the comics being ahead when making the games would just be unnecessarily complicated
@@PompeiSurvivor And idw kinda feels complicated enough already, or maybe that’s just me, idk.
@@Jiggyx3 Weren't you wondering why Sage hasn't showed up?
@mavrickindigo I just assumed that they were keeping it a secret from the rest of the cast that she was alive, only to have her show up in a big reveal. What you’re saying does make sense though !
Wait and see
@Themasktrooper This is the realest comment I’ve ever seen. Genuinely, I applaud you 🙂↕️
i Have A Question Why Do People Hate Lanolin? Is She Just Too Stern For Some?
It all boils down to characterization. She came in hot when it came to being an official part of the restoration as an officer of sorts and holds everyone to a high standard/criticizes them when they make dumb decisions.
It’s really no different than Cream, Shadow, or Espio getting mad at Sonic for the Metal Virus arc even happening.
Okay Then
Tangle whitout whisper don't work, good that you put her in the list
Tangle was designed to be plopped into a game on her own--maybe with Jewel as a gameplay mechanic like Jewel could become hook points for Tangle to Swing
@mavrickindigo But now she have to be together with Whisper
@pensandoemalgo I had to build some suspense for the people, ya know? Keep everyone engaged lol
@@Jiggyx3 and it worked
The Good, The Bad and... The Ugly? (No. Lanolin is not The Ugly, but I know you're defending Lanolin.)
Someone else mentioned the same thing lmao. I had draw people in with the mystery of what exactly I meant
This is ridiculous. Being canon means that the IDW writers need to be weary of whatever the games may decide to do. There are going to be contradictions and contrivances. You can't expect consistency between a bunch if different writers.
Take Belle and Sage- same concept done twice. Both are Eggman's daughters, but Eggman only cares about one of them.
Understandable frustration. Apparently Ian said that Sage will be introduced way later , so I’m curious as to how that’s going to work
7:45 to be fair, if we're being real with ourselves we never going to get this games anyway. not that i wouldn't be hyped as fuck for them but like come on...we're talking about sequels to games that are old enough to drive and it's pretty clear sonic team has moved on by now.
Yeah😔 I’m glad they onto bigger and better things, but sometimes the nostalgia glasses are stuck to my face
@@Jiggyx3 also upvoted the video cuz lanolin is in fact over hated.
@angrybrony #StopLanolinHate2025
Lmao thank you though! Hope you also enjoyed the video 🙂↕️
I just want Whisper and Tangle to appear in the games, and maybe even have the former interact with Shadow. In fact, I kind of want Surge and Kit to interact with Shadow, too.
Partially because I want to see the Shadow to fight Surge compared to her fights with Sonic, but mostly because he can relate to those characters and even sympathize with them. Also, it'd be fun to see recognize the Shadow as the Ultimate Lifeform from the outside, but slowly get to know him for who he truly is.
I can imagine Surge being flabbergasted at how everyone got Shadow and Sonic confused, especially based in their personalities. They’d probably really connect over how annoying Sonic is in their eyes lol
@@Jiggyx3 Maybe, but Shadow would probably have a limit to how much Surge can trash talk about Sonic, since he holds a great deal of respect for the Blue Blur (at least the REAL Shadow would, anyway). Once that conflict is done + an emotional heart to heart as living weapons with a level of established trust, they'd probably be good friends.
I hope humans keep appearing in the games at least
I really like Maria and Gerald’s design in Shadow Generations! Fingers crossed that one stays around
I'm fairly certain that IDW is at present, soft-canon in relation to the games if anything at this point. Its stuck in pre-Frontiers world where humans don't exist and the world is populated by animals only where as the games have pretty much moved past that. I also doubt Sonic Team would let themselves be beholden to the comics (having to account for stuff that goes on in it when coming up with stories for their games) and more so see it as ancillary material, so if any characters were to make the jump to a mainline game, I wouldn't be surprised if much of the comics events surrounding them were ignored where possible.
In terms of who gets makes the jump, Tangle and Whisper both have popularity and simplicity on their side. They don't have any baggage tied to them that can't be mostly ignored so they can just be plopped into the games. Surge is probably the only other comic OC who has a shot since she also has popularity, but bringing them along also requires you bring in Kit and Starline and explain her whole deal with them and a bunch of esoteric comic stuff that a might confuse those who don't read the comics. They could say screw it and add her anyway, but I think regardless of whether they bring all 3 of them together or not, they're liable to be treated as new characters rather than expecting the player to have kept up with the comics.
First off; love the pfp. Purah for the win. Secondly; Yep, the concept of these characters coming to the games would most likely best be handled by them not having any attachment to their origin stories. I can only assume that’s what they’re doing with Sticks in the games, since BOOM was considered to be its own canon, yet she’s mentioned at the end of Frontiers.
Yeah.
I like it, if anything SHOULD be canon from comics, it’s IDW stuff
Felt that. The two arcs I mentioned are pretty good concepts imo and fingers crossed one day SEGA/Sonic Team allow themselves to have some fun along the line
I like to think that when they say that idw is "canon," it actually means that the games and comics share events, but how those events play out arent one to one the same. For example, in the comic prequel for frontiers Sonic, Tails, and Amy catch on that Eggman was already on the starfall Islands but in the game they seem to only be going there to investigate why the emeralds were gathering there and seemingly had no idea eggman was even on the island. Both the comic and game have similar events, but the way things happened are different. So that means in the game universe, a version of the battle for angel island took place, and a version of the metal virus took place, etc.
Mmmmmmm YOOOO ok ok now things are making sense . Like an alternate dimension, but not really?
@Jiggyx3 yeah it's like an alternate reality where things are similar and follow the same key beats but are different in little minute ways
Starline's dead
I do indeed say that in the video, but Ian himself says that’s nothing is impossible
My theory regarding Lanolin is that she, storywise, was heading towards starting a more neutral, militant, rival faction to the restoration. Alternatively, with GUN becoming more prevalent in media again she could join them.
Kit and Starline are too important to cut out for Surge. Stareline is her backstory and Kit and her are enablers of each others bad choices. The best thing for both legitimately would be to not be around each other so that can't happen.
The Lanolin to GUN pipeline is one I hadn’t considered, and I feel like once the restoration officially disbands, that could be the case.
Starline being in the weird “is he gone or not” limbo is why I had to cut him out. Kit though was definitely a hard cut for me
Surge is sort of like Bass from Mega Man. Made to replace and destroy sonic. Instead she wants to prove herself better at everything
I’m rooting for her, but I doubt that’d happen💀 then again, she did almost uhhhh, send Sonic on a trip in that one fight they had
@@Jiggyx3 Evan seems to be making her a antihero, while Ian wanted her to be more villain when he was in charge of her
Personally I don't mind the comics being Canon
Same! I just hope it amounts to something good and not a time waster
The idw comics are like most of the games to me, I absolutely love the simplicity of these characters just going in adventures, meeting new characters and fighting the bad guy of the week, or just hanging out and doing whatever the day brings, but at the same time, it can feel like a nothing burger, things stay one note for so long you don’t really expect much, there’s little growth and stuff just kind of happens but when there is a big moment the characters reset like nothing previous happened lol
And with the mandates it can really hold the writers back of their true creativity to shine, and I can’t even tell what’s supposed to be canon or not with the idw comics, but I will say in general I still like the idw comics, though I prefer the classic era comics, they’re simple but they know what to do with the characters and plot, personalities don’t feel overdone and characters have their own strengths and don’t just play follow the leader with Sonic, and important moments actually stick, but that’s just me.
In terms of games I’m looking forward to seeing what Sega has in store after Sonic Frontiers and Shadow Generations and I hope they get addressed soon in the comics.
For sure , and we need some more real stakes in IDW just so there can be real substance to these events. Losing a character or two never hurt anybody, but if we want them in the games, then I guess that can wait
One issue I have with IDW being canon is that they don’t include any human characters. It’s too late to pretend they were here all along, so how will they address that?
One scenario I can imagine is maybe having them be in their own pocket city or something like that. I know Shadow Generations and Tails Tube seem to be hinting at the fact that humans are most definitely still a thing
I personally adore Dr starline and I do hope he could return at some point be it in the comic or the games themselves even though he’s y’know… kinda dead
@jaxp3950 with comics, there’s always a chance from what I’ve learned over the years of reading Marvel and DC lol. Starline for sure was gone too soon
I think the biggest problem is the Nerf, you see Sonic having difficulty with a robot made by a child, it's sad, and metal is the most nerfed, metal in IDW can't destroy glass
He’s had sooome good moments, but you’re right he’s kinda just fodder most of the time which sucks, but I have hope as always with this series
If Surge gets into the games it’s a good thing, if not it’s a bad thing.
Simple and Clean, I can respect that lol. Give us more Sonic rivals that STAY rivals
@@Jiggyx3 Yep, but really, I'm just a huge Surge fan. I never thought I would write a fanfiction until Surge! I'm only reading Idw because of her and I don't think I ever finished a sonic game, but I certainly will if she's in a good game lol.
@shinkai9kami162 I’ll be waiting on that day🙂↕️ #KeepSurgeARival2025
I dont like IDW being canon because it limits what IDW can do in its stories.
They mostly focus on their original characters bc Sega is less likely to say "no" to the writers, and the game characters cant go through developments too big. I'd rather it be its own continuity and go crazy.
That being said, I would not object to seeing Tangle and Whisper show up in the games (like... for real).
The freedom they have with the OCs is a good and bad thing, sorta like you referenced. I will say that Flynn did a good job with addressing Tails in both the beginning of IDW and in Frontiers though, so there’s hope somewhere in there
I like Lanolin, especially her design.
I just don’t like some of her actions, especially since the writers go out of their way to make her blissfully unaware sometimes
I can agree with that! I also take it as a “I need to prove myself, so let me be this stern person to prove as such”
These characters seem to be just relevant to outside of japan, and Sonic team, im sure have no idea or reason to care about the IDW cast where they would want to implement them into the game's story.
Makes mores sense to just let the comic just do its own thing, without having to restrict writers the games canon
I see what you’re getting at. Especially since the Japan audience just started to actually care about Sonic as a whole not so recently. Could be detrimental to introduce too many characters at once
@Jiggyx3 I would be keen to see sega try keep consistency with what's established in the comics and even implement a char or 2 into the games, but knowing sega I feel that it's inevitable they will end up stepping on their own toes, with keeping consistent with established lore.
If something established gets in the way of what they want to put into a new story, they are notorious for just ignoring/changing it,
So I feel it's a fruitless effort. Just let the games have their own canon and keep the comics as their own thing imo
@joshtheoriginal10 precisely. They can’t be all gung-ho about everything anymore which sucks, but that quality is so much more important right now that the quantity
If I may give my opinion; while I know the IDW comics are currently canon, I don’t think that means you could bring their characters into the games. And if you did want to bring them into the games, you’d have to give up on the comics being exactly canon to allow for a game to netflix-style adapt their stories into the games.
Reason being that, with the exception of characters like Tangle, Lanolin, and the radio birds; most IDW characters are cool in large part because of their complex backstories. Backstories the gaming audience does not know, cannot be reliably expected to learn by reading the comics themselves, and you cannot get around this by explaining their intricate backstories in brief cutscenes or god-forbid audio logs.
Like, imagine there was no Adventure 2; and you learned Shadow’s backstory with some unlockable documents from Heroes detailing the adventure. That would not work. It would be no different for Whisper or Surge.
So you need to adapt them into the games if you want to include them going forward. But you can’t _just_ adapt stories the comic reading audience already read; this is for them and that’d be a boring waste of a game that’ll take years to make. That’s where I think the tricky part is: you need to adapt their introductions inside a new story.
Some of these are easier than others. For example;
-Belle is pretty easy, even though Eggman hasn’t had amnesia, we aren’t making him have amnesia, and we especially aren’t saying he had amnesia and was cured off-screen. We can just say Belle was made by Eggman to help around one of his amusement parks; one actually designed for people. But since she was designed to be a good-hearted helper; when she found out how Eggman went about making his Eggmanland, she had a crisis and run off. All this sounds complicated; but you could establish it all in a minute-long cutscene and go from there.
-Everything Diamond Cutter related needs the right game; but is generally doable. Tangle can kind of just be dropped in us as another hero you play as in an Adventure-style game. After a level getting used to her, introduce Whisper to her story, then spend around 2 levels and a boss adapting Tangle & Whisper mini-series (include Lanolin and you can basically skip Urban Warfare). Add in one last level to tie back in with whatever the A-plot of the game is and the Diamond Cutters are good to go.
-Surge & Kit though…I don’t know how to adapt them without making their whole intro game Identity Crisis; a story comic fans already read. Which would be bad, to be clear. But how would you make Surge & Kit’s antagonism with Sonic, the plot with their brainwashing, everything with Starline/whoever we’re making responsible for their predicament…not take up an entire game’s story? Like, even just ending their intro game with them in a state of balancing their freedom & desire to find themselves with their hatred for Sonic, so game writers can play around with their characters properly going forward, sounds incredibly complicated. So they’re easily the trickiest to adapt; which is a shame because they’re probably the most popular.
Broke everything down in a nice, concise manner! I feel like the complexity of bringing the IDW characters to the games might get handled in a manner that you mentioned, and that Shadow gens handled the retelling of Shadow 05; a cutscene that gives a bit of background before the arc of the story happens, and leave it up to players if they want to seek out additional media. Sadly, it’s probably gonna work out that way, but at least we’ll have them in some capacity
@@Jiggyx3 Oh it would be so disappointing to introduce major IDW characters with that kind of recap cutscene. I mean a recap cutscene can work as, y'know, a recap to a character you expect most of your audience already knows; but it would be a horrible way to introduce a character. (Especially when, since neither Surge or Whisper are likely to be a focus of the game where this happens, their recap cutscenes might be even shorter and more concise than the Shadow gens recap cutscene) I can see something that absolutely _killing_ any interesting in their characters for people who aren't already familiar. Which is gonna be a lot of them; since this is a plan for putting them in front of a new audience.
No, if they're brought into the games, I really think it'd have to be as if it's their first appearance; Game!Tangle first meeting Game!Whisper, Game!Surge's first meeting & fight with Sonic, etc. That's how you strike the same cord they did in comic readers with the gaming audience. That's how you get Surge in the same vein of popularity as Shadow or Metal Sonic (Silver as worst).
It'd truly be a shame, and I hope I'm wrong in my estimations. I'd rather a few side-games that maybe act as preludes to whatever main game a bunch of the cast will be in too. Your breakdown does make the most sense from a business prospective though.
God I hate Lanolin
edit: Y'know what? Fuck it! I hate the Metal Virus too!
You’ve just punched your 1 “I hate Lanolin” ticket for the train. We ask all passengers to keep said ticket on them at all times
Lanolin good.
The comics to me haven't had a good start and I largely blame that on the overbloated Metal Virus and Forces. Forces screwed the comic over by being the basis. Basically acting as both clean up and damage control after that game bombed. So too much time is spent on the aftermath and not enough on world building. And not long would the Metal Virus pop its ugly head at issue 13. The Metal Virus is a good idea, but it's execution is horrendous. It happens far too early to have significant impact and as a result it has no stakes because the comic just started and can't take out large locations people are familiar with cause there are none nor any characters. Oh sure a ton of them got infected, but having this story early means no one can have any serious deaths. An event like this only works if the reader is familiar enough to care about the world. The world hasn't developed so we are just seeing random locations and characters we only know so much about getting attacked. This kind of event only works way later down the line. And because it was so early this meant readers couldn't even get a big event after cause naturally we still need time to build the world not to mention that we can't have any consequences from the Metal Virus since it had none to begin with. It's a bad story that's pointless and wastes your time on hot air waiting for it to end except that it took around 17 issues to be done
It is the fact the metal virus was really traumatic for quite a few characters, but once it ends they just get over it in a heartbeat, it’s just back to the status quo, like I know most of these characters are super optimistic but man, there could be some interesting moments that leads to characters expressing themselves more and some growth, I know not every arc has to have some deep complex in depth type of moments but like, the metal virus was so intense and horrifying, and just for these characters to go about their daily lives is like, wow.
But I feel bad for the idw comics team honestly, the team is working hard and doing their best with what they have and what they’re allowed to do, but man those mandates hold them back majorly, and I understand why the mandates are there, but I wish Sega would let them do some things they would like to do, cause I like the idw comics but it feels like so many things are happening but not happening at the same time that idk how to feel about it most of the time lol
@superherochestsymbol1032 that's why I said it happens too early. When the universe has just started and you pull a stunt like this you can't have any real consequences. You know that they can't risk it as there's nothing to risk whatsoever. The comic is wasting your time with a bad event and not giving itself time to build itself
@sho829 @superherochestsymbol1032 you both bring up some good points. In retrospect…yeah the metal virus did pop up too early. Imagine it started at like, issue 60 and someone like Belle was a serious casualty (I think it’d be fine since she’s a puppet). Arguably, that make her death more emotional and seriously tick off a lot of other characters since Eggman was technically the one to kill his own daughter.
@Jiggyx3 that's why when it happens to characters like Tangle and Jewel you feel nothing as they haven't had enough time to really get fleshed out and I hate that. This event sucks cause we don't have any stakes due to this as a problem. Not to mention it lasts 17 issues.
@Jiggyx3 not to mention this story came out during "The Virus" so everyone who wants an escape from the real world could not enjoy it! Wanna see Sonic and friends go on adventures? TOO BAD! YOU GET NOTHING, BUT PAIN! REMINDERS OF HOW BAD REALITY IS RIGHT NOW! oh and as a result the wait for issues got longer. As for actual consequences? 4. You get 4. Starline's detraction from Eggman which would have happened whether Metal Virus happened or not, the Zeti still being around, but who cares, Surge and Kit have it in their bodies, and the biggest one? Dry trees. That's allyou get for this mid story
No. Because you're now expected to know and care about a LONG series of comics to understand a god dang videogame.
Fair! They’d have to do soft reboots of these characters if the goal is to have players not totally lost
@@Jiggyx3
Not necessarily. They really would only need to introduce them in a way that summarizes the character and how they know the game cast. As opposed to randomly name-dropping them as if we're supposed to know them and know that whatever they're from, be it IDW for Tangle or Boom for Sticks, is canon to the mainline series, or that a version of them exists in mainline. Yes, I'm ranting about Frontiers writing.
Telling the comic writers to not write the stories they want because they're wasted on a comic book is an insane anti-art stance.
Like
"Nooooo, you wasted the cool idea YOU came up with on this pathetic medium that doesn't hold a candle to video games"
If that’s how that part of the video came across, I’d like to clear up that, that’s wasn’t my intention. I’d rather we got these stories in some capacity other than none and frankly, as optimistic of me as it would be, SonicTeam/Sega would NEVER allow a Sonic-Zombie game to exist in game since they know that’s where the majority of the audience lies.
Parents buy these games for their kids, and I doubt Sonic Team wants to miss out on that market.
Worst comment, I shall direct you to the bottom of the comment trash pile.
No, they shouldn't be cannon. They're from a whole different media that fans don't care enough to read.
Not every game fan reads these comics. If they're gonna be in the games they're gonna need to reintroduce themselves.
They've got no business being cannon, they'll ruin everything.
They’d for sure need some kinds of easily accessible medium that game only players could look into for who these people are. That, or have them do a basic introduction of themselves in a character bio or something
Welp, it is
@@SillyTron_ *"wElp It iS"*
@@ataladin87 you sound butthurt cause people read the comics. Did you complain when the Archie comics existed to?
@@whateverwhatever4476 are you limited in cranium space???
The comics being canon is just so Ian can pull a Penders and make his OC's canon. He literally made a discount worse scourge
Your nostalgia seems to make you bitter. You know Flynn wrote for Archie and especially the “Scourge” debut issue right?
@@KingOfFools784I don’t think that was his decision, SEGA seems to just wanna make everything canon regardless of if it makes sense or is a good idea. Otherwise why would Sonic Prime apparently be canon?
I will say that until SEGA/Sonic team can decide concretely on what’s canon vs not, we’ll probably be stuck with that “Everything is Canon” tweet lmao
@@KingOfFools784 Im well aware of that it Ian's work on Archie is actually my fav pieces of Sonic but his idw work. Anti-Sonic works because he had reason and depth. Surge was literally just made to be a discount Sonic. Im also certainly not bitter given the fact despite my gripes with IDW i like some arcs like scrapnik and some of the zombot arc
@@zephyrorsomethinh1528 that’s on me for assuming. I’m just so sick of seeing borderline obsessive hate for this one guy over Sonic The Hedgehog