Shooting with Expired Medium Format Film from eBay
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- I recently got my hands on some expired Fuji NPS 160 and figured it would be the perfect film to run through my new-to-me Mamiya M645 1000S.
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At first I was like, "wow Canada looks a lot like the UK" then I realised...
Franatixx Me, too!
For expired film, the colors look really good. Every time I see people shoot expired film even when overexposing you can definitely tell it’s expired film but those colors look pretty accurate
I do the 1 stop for every 10 years rule and then add an extra .5 stop just to be safe.
..and then add extra 5 stops, just to be sure. 🤣
Really happy I found your channel. So cool to see experiments and I'm picking up such valuable tips along the way to improve my photography skill.
Thanks for watching, Tom. Glad you’re enjoying the content.
Happy to find this channel !
Agree 100% about shooting subjects you don't necessarily find interesting. It make you get creative or try new things to MAKE it interesting. I have the exact camera and love it. Versatile system with tons of accessories still available. Just found your channel - subscribed.
Thanks Kyle. Always fun to travel along on a photo walk with you. I'm currently shooting digital - but still love watching your videos on film photography.
Thanks Sarah!
@@KyleMcDougall - I'm enjoying your podcast so much too, Kyle. Listening to each one as they come out. Whether they're an interview or a solo podcast. Thank you for making them!
Man that was a great stock, I used to shoot it in the early 2000s in 35mm. I rarely ever shoot color anymore, but in a location with nice greenery, it worked well.
Very well done, you were being brave with the old stock, which made it extremely interesting.
Great that you did it .
Cheers
Thanks, Gary.
Keeping my fingers crossed for a video about metering with that 308. Loved your video with the 558, and would be curious to hear how you approach a scene with an incident and reflective meter (instead of a spot).
Got one planned for the near future. 🙂
I had the same lightleak issues with my M645 1000S and its a known issue. Get a new sealing kit from Ebay. Takes you about an hour and your camera is as good as new! Do make sure you do all the light seals. Good luck fixing!
I like the colors. Nicely saturated. Green light often reflects onto nearby objects from foliage. Also enjoying the podcasts, Kyle. Keep up the good work.
Thank you! 🙂
Love this man! Never shot expired film - will have to see if I can try pick some up!
Thanks for this thoughtful video. I don't have any experience shooting film that is more than two to five years expired, but I imagine that buying a whole package of expired film would allow you to experiment with the first roll and then adjust exposure with the remaining rolls. Keep up the good work.
For sure. Unfortunately I shot all of the rolls at once!
I feel like this stock lends itself to long exposure landscapes, lovely greens, but as you said, it needed more light. I think blue hour, couple minute exposures would look v nice
Agreed. Next time I won’t hold back on giving it some extra light.
Great video. I shoot a lot of expired film. Portra 160 NC, various versions of Ektachrome, Fuji Reala, RMS 120, various Superia, Agfa RSX2.
For the C41, definitely go for at least 1 full stop per decade it's expired. Usually get lovely results.
For E6, much more tricky. For the E6 rolls I have that have been stored cold I try to stick closer to half a stop per decade. Some of it I don’t even need to overexpose at all. A test roll is normally necessary for the E6.
I think it’s a lot of fun to shoot expired film. I encourage everybody try it out once in a while. Good luck.
Recognised the shots in Wokingham where I grew up :-)
I shoot expired film from pretty much anytime that slide E-6 came out till now. Great stuff and you experience a lot of the old slide films that were more saturated or have that classic Chrome look.
Great video. I love that film! I have a few boxes in my fridge. I feel that it’s really great for portraits in flattering light.
Thanks man. Yeah I’d love to shoot some of this that maybe wasn’t as old. I feel like this film wasn’t stored in the best conditions.
Love my Mamiya 645, have the normal and the 1000s version. Recently got the 80mm 1.9 so I’m keen to play with it!
Love the photos of the church at dusk..
As someone who shoots a lot of expired film I can tell you your friend is right. This film needs light. 50 iso. Also, whomever you've bought it from, stored it really well. Save for the underexposure, it looked about as good as it gets for expired film. Love shooting it!
I just shot my first roll of Fuji NPS 160 expired in 2002! Rated the film at 40ISO. Some of the images were almost pure green, definitely didn't get the result you did! Hopefully, the next couple of rolls will turn out better! Keep up the good work
Thanks, Matias.
I loved it!
You can actually buy the new variant of this film (Pro 160NS) on Amazon Japan and they do ship outside of Japan. Cost me 50 euros for the film, shipping and the import duties (handled immediately at purchase) for a 5 pack of 120.
Kyle, I bought a 5-pack of expired Fuji NPS160 in 120 format that expired in 2003 relatively recently. I wasn't sure how the film was stored prior to my purchase, so I shot a test roll. I shot 3 different scenes at different exposure levels. I used a scene in full sun, a scene with high contrast, and a scene in full shade. I shot each scene at box speed, -1, +1, and +2 stops of exposure. In the end, I liked the way the film looked when shot at ISO 80 best.
In 120 I have also shot expired Fuji Superia 200 and Kodak Tri-X with quite good results. In 35mm I have shot expired Ektar and Superia 800.
GREAT vid!
Awesome combo! Shot the first 2 rolls on my new m645 two weeks ago, and the first one was actually a Fuji NPS160 (exp). I metered for 40 asa. Still waiting for the results, but I’m really looking forward to them after seeing this vid!
Awesome. That extra stop should help things out.
Expired film is always a fun adventure:)
Thanks for the video! I have been shooting some 135 film that expired in 2000 and even though I overexposed by two stops it has a lot of grain. I have three M645's (ebay and wine do not mix) and like the camera. It is much lighter and more portable than the RB67 which I also own.
Based upon your video and my own experience I think that I will stick to unexpired film in the future.
:)
Thanks Trent. I think I will as well. 🙂
I had the exact same experience as you with that film. Green cast and underexposed looking shadows. Gonna try rating it at 50 the next time!
really love your videos !
Thank you. 🙏
When looking at the scene for the shot at 2:12, I was thinking "hmm, how would I shoot this" and then we cut to the shot and I'm like "Oh yeah. That's a Kyle McDougal shot, you can just tell."
Good video, my dude.
Expired film, always a gamble! I shot some Portra 800 recently that was from the early 2000s and rated at 100 and it was still grainy AF and underexposed. 🤷♂️
😁 Thanks dude. Yeah, I feel like for the right creative project it could work well. But the unpredictability isn’t for me, especially if I’m trying to create images for a portfolio of mine.
I had the exact same leak from my Mamiya 645 1000S. Interesting! Great video man.
Hearing that from others as well.
Why so, guys? Is it a shutter problem?
Андрей Синицын not sure really. At first I thought it might be the sealed film back letting it in - so I covered the back and sides in gaff tape but still ended up getting leaks. Could be a shutter issue. Not sure!
I think the colour quality of this film is lovely. But as you said, the shadows seemed a bit shonky and not ideal. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on a mate's expired film stash later this week and will run it through my Mamiya 7 - whoop whoop! No idea what I'm doing so will look further into best way to rate it.
Hope you have fun with this. I shot with a Mamiya 645 (1978-1982), started in Germany. Believe me when I say it was great. I only shot out of date film for the M645. I never had any real bad issues with it. At the moment I have a number of Mamiyas (M645, M645 Super TL, and M645AF). These are all great cameras. Have fun.
Thanks Lee. Enjoying the camera so far, but I don't think it'll replace my Pentax.
Hey, don't worry. I have two Pentax and a Bronica to test out also. You are not working if you are enjoying what you like. Keep a sharp eye for your next creation
man that light leak is a pain. And those Sekonic l308 meters are awesome I got two.
Also you might want to try out the superior budget friendly Bronica ETR camera. Lenses are priced well and built quality is great.
I’ve still yet to try a Bronica but heard so many good things from people. Will have to try and get my hands on one soon.
Nice video. I haven’t shot any expired film yet but I am thinking of buying some Fuji Astia 100.
Those light leaks are super common on the Mamiya 645. The trick is to replace all the light seals on the film door and cracks around it. Once I did that I never got one again
I love shooting expired Kodak Gold in particular. Generally I shoot fresh film, but expired Gold just works for me and is worth the risk.
Kodak gold is a great film.
Have yet to shoot any expired medium format. Really want to try some 400vc or 400nc. If you ever get the chance to shoot fujicolor super HG ii on 35mm, definitely try it out, I think you will enjoy. Great vid as always man!
Thanks dude! I’ll have to look up super HG. Seems like there are all sorts of Fuji options from the past. Too bad we still don’t have that variety!
Crazy haha, I basically only shoot expired stuff of eBay. I also just sold my Mamiya 645 for a Bronica 6x6!
I believe that light leak sometimes comes from the aperture preview setting on the lens which lets you see things brighter through the viewfinder and ground glass. Check your lens and make sure it’s set to M not A on the side and see if that makes a difference.
Good suggestion! I sometimes get similar light leaks with my Mamiya 645 1000s. I'll give this a try.
I have the same issue! I changed the light seals and I still have it. I will shoot it on M setting.
Little update, might be the light seal on the back door.
the part in the song at 2:13 reminds me of the part at 3:50 of science fair by black country new road
wow, I just sold like 6 rolls of Fujifilm Velvia 120 film on ebay that expired in 2007 assuming it wasn't useable. now I think I should have kept it!
NPS160 was designed and marketed directly to wedding photographers. I know this as I owned an operated the ONLY wedding and portrait studio with our own on site Fuji approved Pro Lab in the Southwest UK - Gloucester. Later I went on the lecture circuit for Fuji where my mission was to extol the proponents and virtues of using NPS and NHG 400 to other wedding photographers for exactly the reasons you state. As for landscape it was ok but had issues (you had to warm it up considerably Colour Temp wise) - most 'scapers' used Velvia - I know this too as we also had E6 processing. Coupled with the Mamiya RZ, as I used, Fuji was simply a match made in heaven. I now use GFX 50s- but am just swapping it for a Hass 907X (Moon Edition) - nothing wrong with the GFX - it is just that the Hass is smaller and lighter to carry about for the 'scapes' I do now.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing your experience!
I’ve never shot expired film (well deliberately). There was one time I shot a slightly expired Polaroid Originals 600 film pack, and I know I did not entirely like some of the colours. I really wanna shoot more expired film
I always want to try expired film, BUT it always takes me ages to finish a roll of film because I don't want to waste a frame. And there's so much thought that goes into each picture, so I don't want to end up with crappy shots, just because the film fails me. So I stick with the new stuff.
0:58 I LOVE Mamaya Cameras!
I shot a roll of RDP3 220 expired 2003 and another one of Fortia SP expired 2006, both have magenta-ish
Fuji NPS160 is actually the first expired film I tried. I bought way too much of it (3 220 packs) and have yet to finished it all. I really like the saturated colors but, as you said, the unpredictability is sort of a double edged sword: It's certainly exciting, but it's also a turnoff especially when the pictures are great but the results are underwhelming. I usually rate it at 80iso, but mine expired in 2007.
Nice
Kyle never shot expired film so it was interesting to see the experiment... Wondered why you got the Mamiya 645 1000s & what you think of it compared to other 645's you've shot... Thinking your Pentax & Fuji...
Anyway this is such a timely vlog for I have just acquired a mint Bronica Etrsi (price just too good) having originally been looking for a Pentax or Mamiya & also managed to buy locally an unseen camera case for £10 which contained 'camera stuff' & included some expired Portrait 160 & Fuji FP4, HP5 & Delta 120 film stock. Thanks for sharing All The Best David
Thanks David. I picked up the Mamiya for my visit here in the UK. My Pentax was back in Canada, so I figured I’d try this out. Definitely don’t enjoy it as much as the Pentax. Enjoy the Bronica!
Great video thanks for posting. I have the same camera. Did you get any issues with camera shake. I have the metered prism and shot most images at 1/125 and got a decent amount of shake on some images. I don’t know if the metered prism is off.
Try sum seattel film works film i think they only made it in 35mm
Low kye like light leaks lot of the time just adds more feeling to the picher
I shoot expired film most of the time because it's cheaper for me; and I always overexpose. You should try Fujifilm NPC 160. I love it.
I’ll check it out. Thanks.
I have the same light leak on my 645. It’s hard to tell where the it is coming from. It seems like a blue light leak, which I’ve heard means it is passing through glass (as opposed to red/orange/yellow colored light leaks which are often signs of direct exposure to light, and from the film backs of most cameras). But when I examine my negatives I find that the leak is exposed across the entirety of the negative.
Hey Luis, there's been a few people saying the same thing, and it sounds like it could be a curtain issue.
I aquired some 40 year old(expired 9/1981) 120 Kodak VPS iso 100 . Overexposed 4 stops in bright daylight came out pretty good. I find 120 holds up better than 35mm.
Nice! That’s quite old. Cool that it still held up.
Portra VC would be interesting
I like your camera strap!☺️can you recommend us a nice place for straps that suit the mamiya 645 strap system?
This one is the OP/TECH strap for the 645.
Hi Kyle, nice video as always. i have a question: you exposed for the shadows and get up a step?(so the shadows where in zone VI) or you mesured the shadows? (the shadows where in zone V) thank you.
Hey Louie, since I wasn’t using a spot meter, it wouldn’t be that accurate. All that I meant is that I favoured the shadows when measuring. So with the incident mode, I was placing my meter in the shadows, or shading the dome with my hand.
How do you fix all the light leaks in post production? 😀
Great stuff man, I pretty much end up only shooting expired film somehow haha
You are dressed like a false postman! 😂😂
Btw, cool vintage look. It make me think of Ireland in the '60s. 🙂
I am shooting on expired portra 160 exp. in 2019/14/09. Let you know how it turned out.
Great stuff. I shot a roll of this on a 6x17 Malefic recently and it was great shot at 100 iso. Be interested to know your thoughts on the light here, are you finding it very different? Can I also recommend that when Armageddon is over you might try a trip to St Ives in Cornwall, the light there is very special.
The strange thing is that since I've been here it's been sunny every day, for almost 2 months. So it's definitely not been what I've expected.
Hey Kyle, I have the same problem with my Mamiya M645 that I bought from ebay a couple years ago. I thought it was the light seals and paid Aperture in London £144 to fix it. Unfortunately, the problem persisted even after this; apparently, it is to do with the shutter and cannot be fixed unfortunately. However, one way of alleviating this I have found is shooting at slow shutter speeds (all rolls where I have exclusively shot long-exposures do not have the blue streak).
Thanks for letting me know this. Hoping that’s not the issue with mine. I’m going to try and replace the seals myself and we’ll see.
Great video, did you process the film yourself?
Thanks. This was done at a lab.
You should have done a 'Clip Test' . cutting the film as do when using outdated film of UNKNOWN STORAGE. I have outdated Fuji NPS 160 and rate it at 100 and it comes out well -- some 35mm 'Truprint' 200 and 400 ' I was sent was rubbish -- bad storage -- waste of time - Mine is all in a fridge keeping cold and well.
Nice video and shots you got. :)
Did the strap come with the camera or was it bought separately? I find the lack of camera strap one of the main reasons why I don't shoot enough with M645 1000s.
Thanks Tom. I had to buy this separately. Got it off of Amazon. Honestly, it’s not the most stylish strap, but it’s comfy.
@@KyleMcDougall Thanks, will need to check Amazon. Given that 645 is quite hefty camera it is comfiness that counts. :)
How did you shot these Mamiya close-ups in the grass? They look gorgeous!
Handheld, 60fps, Leica 15mm 1.7 wide open.
How do you not shoot the Porsche in the drive @ 6:33
Not a light leak, its a shutter issue. I would say since it is bright on the curtain edge and not the frame edge, it is your top cutain. It is sticking when fired. Dark bottom sections would mean the bottom curtain is stickin when firing. White bottom edge is a bottom curtain sticking when winding. Dark top sections means the shutter is not winding to the top.
Thank you for this. I'm leaning towards that being the issue.
I like the look! Maybe not for pro work, but for personal projects.
I'm still a bit confused about how you expose your images. You said you were exposing for the shadows, but all photos are quite moody and dark, with some dark shadows still visible. I would expect the shadows to be bright (medium grey) when they are exposed and metered. What happened there? Did you tell the lab to do something different to the film? Did you already darkened/edited/compensated the overexposure in the photos when you show them at the end?
I'm really curious. I've just rolled into medium format and I want to get it right. And I read and hear a lot about "exposing for the shadows" or "overexposing 2-3stops" for best colors (on Fuji 400H). Coming from digital, I would expect images to be a lot brighter overall when overexposing. Though I understand that film is less linear than digital. Shadows get brighter when overexposing, but highlights retain their info. But then I see this video and again I have the same question and confusion ha. Also watched your Lomo 400 test in the previous video and I just confused how the images seem to look exactly the same and only loose some contrast and punch when testing from -3 to +5. Do you just do those exposures on the camera, rewind the roll, drop it off at the lab without any instructions or scan them yourself and show them in the video? Or is there a step I'm missing? Or do you compensate the overexposure in Lightroom? Or is there no need for special treatment and they just come out like this and film just reacts to overexposure in that way?
I’ll be doing a video on this exact topic soon. But basically when the film is scanned the lab will always try to correct the image to look as ‘normal’ as possible, regardless of how you exposed. The more light film gets, the more dense areas become, the less light, the thinner they’ll be. The idea with a bit of overexposure is to make sure there’s density in the shadow areas so when you scan you aren’t getting too much noise. I did a video a while ago called ‘Top 3 things if you’re new to film photography’. Check it out as I go over it in that.
Hopefully you can get the light leak issue sorted out. Aside from that, would be interested on your thoughts between the Mamiya 645 vs the Pentax 645, I've been looking at both of these...
Thanks John. I’ll be doing a video between the two, but I can already tell you I like the Pentax better.
@@KyleMcDougall I had a feeling that might be the case, the Pentax seems to be very popular. Cheers Kyle.
Where can you buy expired film? Do you develop your own film? How do you scan the image to digital?
Amazing. One thing I would like to Ask you, as u rated ISO 100 , did you develop the film normally like ISO 160? If not then what happened if it's develope the film normally like ISO 160 by not telling the lab that u shot at ISO 100?
Yes, was just developed normally. Nothing was said to the lab. The adjustments would be made during the scan.
Kinda surprised to hear you are so lukewarm on the results. The stock is really giving some nice character to the images.
Yeah, I'm back and forth between how much I like them.
Yo Kyle I got the same Model of the M645 and can pretty surely tell you that the light leaks ur experiencing are from a badly or not even at all sealed filmback. The backdoor of the FIlmback on these 645s had some pretty poorly done seals, which get really bad after a few years till they break out. With mine i got the same kind of light leaks and first thought it was a shutter issue till it taped the backdoor with black gaffa tape and had the film come out without any light leaks at all. Perhaps give this a try. The sealing foam can be bought on ebay as repair kid and is fairly simple to install.
The strange thing is that the seals were apparently brand new. I’ll try the gaff trick though and see what happens. Thanks!
@@KyleMcDougall Surely if the light seals were shot the leaks would appear on all the exposures? My money is on the trailing shutter curtain getting stuck. I wonder if the leak appears on every other exposure? Needs a CLA in my opinion.
Nice video thanks, Kyle. Guess I'll never get the expired film "thing." Why fly fish with a cracked rod or ride a road bike with shitty wheels? But, it's fairly popular so there must be something to it. Just escapes me. Too bad about the light leak.
For sure. Not for everyone, and I’m not sure it’s for me. It was still fun to experiment with though.
sup Kyle, was thinking's for a while now about that m645 as a first step to medium format. thoughts? maybe somethin else to recommend?
Have only used it a little bit so far, but it seems like a great camera. I do prefer the Pentax 645 though.
I shoot a lot of expired film, i love kodak, for the most part, it ages really well, and really predictably, regardless, for the most part, of heat. I love experimenting with all of the weird 35mm rolls from literally every company under the sun, but my favorite is signature color 200iso. Also, word to the wise, b&w film almost doesn't degrade due to age, so you can cut the timescale for expired film in half. Also if you have any tips on shooting expired e-6, please post a video about it because i've been having so much trouble with it. Thanks, Have a good one!
Thanks. No tips on expired E-6. I do have some expired Ektrachrome that is expired that I need to shoot. It'll be the first for me though.
@@KyleMcDougall Gotcha, can't wait to see it!
Light leaks are a blessing. Don't fix that camera and use it to shoot expired film for maximum lomo effect.
Same exact light leak I have with mine
Checkout my comment for the fix :)
Did you get light leak sorted? .My 1000s presented a similar leak. It is in the shop now getting seals re-done.
Yep. The seals on this camera were apparently brand new as well.
what made you pick up the mamiya 645? I am currently trying to decide between the pentax645n and mamiya645. The only reason I am considering the mamiya is that 1.9 80mm.
Just bought it to test out while I’m in the UK. My Pentax is back in Canada. I definitely prefer the Pentax.
Overexpose first roll by a half stop and do a clip test. Easy.
Interesting results!
I would shoot at 100 and develop the film at say 200 or 400 to give the shadows a chance to get some shadow details!
Also there is a comment from a user with a yelloish coloured bean as a avatar that is a hijacked channel that via a bot posts spam comments, delete the comment!
Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the heads up. 🙏
@@KyleMcDougall blaide is also a bot spam channel
I literally bought an M645 1000s a few days ago.
Enjoy!
nps 160 in 120 is still available fresh... in japan lol. its my favourite colour 160 film in 120 haha
Would love to shoot some fresh stuff!
@@KyleMcDougall It is still available in stock in some european countries. For example in Romania, were I live, you can find it on some online retailers. And they deliver to UK if you want to try it.
ah. its pro 160ns, the next improved formulation of nps 160
Still very cool. I’ll look some up. Thanks!
Hey Kyle. Can you tell me what monitor do you use? Any recomendations of a monitor?
I’m currently using an LG Ultrafine 5K. If you’re looking for something a little cheaper BenQ have some nice 27” models that calibrate well and cover AdobeRGB.
@@KyleMcDougall Thanks! I'll look into Benq!
Did you ever figure out where your light leaks are from? My RB67 produced veeeerrrryyy similar light leaks when I shot it on a bright day.
Not yet. Haven't looked into it any further.
Is it possible the light leaks are imperfections from the expired film?
Don’t think so. There too consistent in the same area.
I just exposed fuji pro 160ns that is expired for one year. Exposed it like iso 100 on my mamiya 645. It’s okay, but it has the same lines of light as you have on the video. First I thought it’s a shutter trouble. But line is all over the film width, not only on the frame window
Yeah, seems like it may be a common problem with these cameras.
Interesting video, particularly as I have a freezer loaded with expired leftovers from past photo trips. However, when I consider the time, effort and money I spend on photography apart from the cost of film, I have to say that I think shooting expired film, particularly if having paid someone for it, Is the very definition of penny wish, pound foolish.
I’d generally agree, with the caveat that if you set your expectations low it can be fun. Especially because you can shoot some neat stocks that are out of production. I’ve been having a great time shooting Retrochome 400 from FPP for example.
Did you have a UV filter on the lens?
Nope.
Mamaya Papaya
i hope fuji stop discontinuing film stocks
Were those home scanned and develop? or you sent to a lab?
These were lab scans. Noritsu.
How come you've ended up in England?
Making the move over here to be closer to family.
tell us about your boots!!!!!
😁