Watching this after Wutville was added is interesting. I wasn't even aware of the issues with this map because I only played it like twice for the contract, simply because the gimmick spam was so bad. Every Halloween, one has to slog through maps that may have been great on their own, but instead have a decade's worth of Halloween gimmicks slapped on top. The first time I played Bloodwater, I got spawncamped three or four times in a row due to bosses and random crits. Bosses were never even designed to fight outside of their home maps and are supposed to be tough enough that both teams have to work together to kill them (hence why a truce period was added to the original Monoculus and Merasmus fights). The constant bosses, spells, and gimmicks are what really ruins SF for me every year and why I tend to stick to older event maps or just regular Casual if I want to actually have fun. I'm not sure why having pumpkin bombs, crit pumpkins, and random crits is still not enough RNG for mapmakers.
I wouldn't be surprised if Halloween updates were handled automatically, since Volvo doesn't even wanna touch this game anymore. We can only hope now that one day they'll return to it...
Ever since WutVille was added to the game, that was the final nail in the coffin for me. The TF Team is nonexistent and Valve doesn't seem to care about their game anymore. All we've gotten in the last three years were Halloween and Smissmas updates, and they seem to get worse each year. Valve is all about quality, and yet these maps are anything but that.
I like Bloodwater simply because of that chaos factor. You don’t hop onto Bloodwater to play a regular game of Payload, you hop onto Bloodwater when you’re bored and want uncontrollable chaos.
I know I’m a bit late to this, but still. You’re honestly claiming that this entire update is ruined (12:05) because of an event Halloween Map (a map group known for being completely unbalanced it’s entire existence) with a few minor graphical and balence issues, that were both patched after its release. I understand not liking a map, but trying to rally people against Valve, and saying that an entire update was a waste just because you have issues with this kinda flawed map, which is one of four, is really stupid. However, I’ll admit that the video quality itself is really good, and I agree the argument has some merit. Keep up the good work.
@@verisimuli Yes, valve hasn't done anything to stop the bots, which Valve is to blame. But I don't think that this map is a problem in the grand scheme of things. They selected a somewhat flawed map, which was fixed in like 2 weeks. That's it. I mean, even Uncle Dane enjoyed it so... he is nitpicking about something completely wrong.
I actually only liked hassle castle this year, not that im complaining about getting maps, but I dont think anyone was expecting these maps to get in. I didnt even know they existed, I was really under the impression that more polished maps such as spellway, hearth, dustbowl event and maybe farmageddon was gonna get in, but in turn we got (and no disrespect to the map creators) some pretty mediocre maps. Because to me looks/originality is just as important as gameplay to make a map well loved. But anyway, amazing vid, really high quality for a 100 sub channel, keep up the good work!
I think most of the maps submitted this year, like farmageddon, dustbowl event and such were submitted too late to be even considered. All these maps picked up were maps that are older. Atleast year or two. Perhaps next year there is more chances for any older map or maps submitted within recent months. Or could be they just announce that they are do with old maps, make some new ones like 2015.
Unpopular opinion: As bad as it is, I still think Bloodwater is better than Badwater for one single reason. Thanks to the spells/bosses, it doesn't stalemate into boring 10-minute fuckfests every round.
They also reduced the spawnrates for Monoculous and HHH, so the linchpin of this video has been rendered obsolete (although it could be argued that that's also the case on account of it not having been Scream Fortress for a month). Maybe it's because I didn't get around to playing it until it was patched or maybe it's just my love of the Scream Fortress aesthetic, but I enjoyed this map a lot when I played it. Should they have been fixed before it was added? Of course. But they did put in the effort to rebalance and fix it post-release and I think that's worth acknowledging, especially when there's a _certain other map_ that has yet to see that treatment.
It was not the spawn rates that were the issue, it was the spawn times. Bosses could certainly work, as long as they're not being spawned in almost right on top of each other. All the bosses would have been less aggravating if they only had the chance to spawn once a round. On the surface, it sounds like just reducing the chances of a certain boss spawning is good. But just because there's a lower chance for a boss to spawn doesn't mean that it's solved the problem. It just makes the problem less likely to happen, instead of trying to solve the problem outright. Which is why HHH was ultimately removed, as the "fix" didn't end up fixing the problem. Removing HHH was the ultimate band-aid fix, as the map maker couldn't think of any way to properly fix the spawn times.
@@Jakapoa But when it's weighted to spawn skeletons much more it doesn't break the pace in the same way that the bosses do. In fact, I kind of found myself enjoying the small skeletons being around because it made the walk from spawn to the cart more engaging in a simple (admittedly potentially obnoxious) way. I don't really think there's a problem with the occasional boss spawn, and that's the state it's currently in.
4:27 Atleast there's a cool feature where you can use the pumpkin bombs to bomb jump into the little building leading to red spawn. It's hard to pull off but it was very satisfying when I did it as engie and got a teleporter there :)
Bloodwater actually would be pretty good for someone trying out the halloween style for the first time, but y'know, this is official so they don't get that "first time" pass.
FYI, Valve does not fix community maps, the creators of those maps do the changes, and valve just updates them into the game. I also know that even if you do a lot of work for a map and think its at quite good level, when 100 000 people get to roam in it, theres always something found that you missed while mapping.
I'm confused if you actually watched the video. At no point do I ever say that Valve needs to fix this, or if Valve should fix this (I am well aware of Valve's role in adding community content). And while some issues were definitely unnoticeable, needing to fix the lighting in two whole sections of the map shouldn't be something that takes a large amount of players to be pointed out.
It’s sad how Valve has put the TF2 community in a state where the community is so desperate for content they’ll accept anything no matter how bad it is
Oh my god this map was awful. I litterally couldn't leave spawn as the blue team to reach the final point because by the time I got there, multiple enemies would've scattered my team all over the place making Red's job basically a clean up job. The map was indeed way too dark and the chokepoints make spells absolutely broken and overpowered. But ya know, I thought it was just me being grumpy. It was just a scream fortress map i thought, some players in my matches seemed to enjoy it. I'm sure it's actually okay. Now that I've seen your video I completely agree with what I thought earlier. The map is even more broken than I thought. Great video!
Very nicely put together video, you didn't sound overly angry at any point. Proper and accurate criticisms all-throughout. You've earned yourself a subscriber my friend.
Gimmicks should be reserved for new maps specifically designed around them, not for spooky reskins of old maps. Except for Helltower because Hightower is already a clusterfuck so adding even more bullshit on top of that just adds to the experience.
I didn't have a problem with this map and i liked the new maps, granted i came back to tf2 after the first bloodwater patch, for me bloodwater was just bad water with spells and a few bosses, most of the issues were cosmetic and I'd actually have a problem if it had exploits or fps drops but no it was just some hardly noticeable cosmetic stuff that i didn't notice outside of your video, maybe the lighting thing but overall my only complaint was me never liking bosses and they could have done more stuff with the blood, just that 1 pool that slightly changes how you capture 3rd was too little, but i like spells and the pits being on 1v1 areas instead of on big choke points was an interesting style, like that one on the corner at last makes those 1v1's faster, i like the spells and badwater and that map has both of those things, also pumpkin cart sounded like one of those soundboard effects some players have which i thought were weird so i ignored them, with all the gunfire it isn't a big distraction
10:45 Audio: Having these set at these delay times may make it balanced for Helltower but for Bloodwater it makes the map even more of a chaotic mess! Gameplay: saves himself with jar of bread flavoured substances and with only 4hp leftover but then dies after jumping off the balcony.
Yea I actually don't mind bosses too much in halloween maps, but like you say , in plr_helltower you have no time limit. And in Manor, the HHH often is not going to go to the capture point. In Bloodwater, the many different types of bosses that appear all the time REALLY get in the way of trying to capture the payload cart objectives. I was doing halloween contracts on this map, and I started to really hate it because of all the boss spam. At one point the skeleton king, who spawns outside of blue forward spawn.. did just that.. and blue team (us) were locked in our spawn room for >2 minutes, as players would spawn in, walk out of the door, lure the HHH back towards the door, etc, repeat x50. It was horrific! And that would be fine if we had had a second way out of spawn, like if the author realised "oh this could be an issue, I'll design around this issue", but that didn't occur. I am also a bit annoyed! It makes me think the map wasn't playtested before it was added to the game. Which is , as you say , and I agree, an embarrassment.
HHH goes only to the nearest capture point when it cannot see enemies who are IT or within 1000 hammer units or so. I think this map pretty much copies not only helltower, but also hellstone that uses the bosses on each point as well as skeletons and monoculus spawning with the clock event, but with less thought way.
I need to see a pl map with 3 segments with each segment having 3 points, having skelies king skelly, merasmus cards and himself, horseless headless horseman, monoculus, spells, hell, pumpkin realm, and pretty much all the halloween gimmicks
I liked blood water, it was stupid fun. The only thing that bothered me was the lights on the first point (a problem with current Christmas map). Sure it's kinda bad that valve seems not to care for the quality on the new content, but it's also true that it's not the end of the world, I mean maps can be updated, specially with the spaghetti code that tf has.
I'm glad someone else took issue with this year's Scream Fortress. If you ask me, there seems to be a persisting trend of Halloween Payload (not Payload Race) maps being the epitome of lazy design. Nearly every -stone suffixed map has some sort of issue with their overuse or poorly implemented bosses. The only one I consider passable is Gravestone(?) the one based on Grindstone(?, the lumberyard map). Hellstone or whichever one that has the winner decided by a bumper cart race is EXTREMELY unsatisfying to play when the winner is not decided by who defends or attacks successfully, it's about who wins the arbitrary go-kart race at the with wonky exaggerated physics. It doesn't work like Carnival of Carnage which has relatively short rounds with lengthy mini-games, it is a 3+ point Payload map with tight corridors and very annoyingly close spawn locations. I could write rants about most, if not all, Halloween Payload maps being painfully generic and unfulfilling to play. However, I feel like I'd be alone is mentioning how frustrating for an objective-based mode to be constantly hampered by these gaudy, festive inclusions. (And despite being somewhat inspired, Precipice's sightlines, lengthy walk to the frontlines, and obnoxious pumpkin placement still makes it the worst in my opinion.)
map's still fun, no matter what grievances the community may have. Above all, I'm just upset that it's accepted as an official map, but that would almost be ignoring the fact that almost _every_ official map has had to undergo changes since their addition to the game. If this were a community map, it would be one of my favorites. I feel like to a lot of people, mapping is more about standards rather than how much fun the maps actually are.
Bruh why do you sound so angry? I played this map for the whole Halloween event and I wasn’t bothered by a single thing. There’s no need to sound like you just watched Logan Paul’s apology. Take a chill pill man.
Idk, I really enjoyed my time on this map. I think I played mostly after the patch, but it was a lot of fun either way. There were glitches, but as long as they didn't open things up for people to build sentries under the map it didn't get me hot and bothered or anything. And sure, the shadow areas do make things a bit scary when you never know who or what could be in there, but I suppose that's part of the challenge and the point. It is a spooky map for a competitive game after all. My only gripe is that the one large deathpit on the less trafficked route is a bit too large and unlit. Beyond that, the rest are fine. The one in that cubby by the first point is good for pyros' airblasts and to reduce the turtling that can happen in that spot on regular badwater. Beyond the technical issues though, I think the theme here is just a different matter of taste. Is this map everything and the kitchen sink? Yeah, and I'm here for it. I love the insanity of the map, and so do a lot of other folks. For a more traditional playstyle, though, other maps (including OG Badwater) still exist.
My conspiracy theory is that Valve just wants us to understand they dont give a damn about tf2 anymore so they're also forcing us to hate it, slowly but gradually.
i appreciate the deep dives into the programming behind the maps - and how stunningly lazy the devs of bloodwater seemingly are. it really is a shame that the majority of the tf2 fanbase will just accept this because they're so starved for content that literally anything they get is considered the second coming. how about instead of clapping like seals, we actually say to valve that this is not fucking good enough and we expect actual quality if they're going to bother updating the game in the first place?
I think this Spawn rules would be good on something like.... Player Destruction is it? the TDM one. Imagine having a halloween Team Deadmatch where its two teams, hordes of skeletons and every now and then a boss. Monoculous if it was me. Could be a really cool and chaotic gameode to mess around with. In a large enough map of course.
I honestly liked blood water it did feel too gimmicky but I didn’t even realize the manor clip thing. However it woulda been nice to fix the spawn logic
I can't help but suspect that the authors don't actually know how map event logic works, so they just copied it. Like, they wouldn't even know how to fix it. Of course, the solution to that is to learn how to work with map events.
They are silly event maps not to be used in a serious competitive setting. Most of the issues dont fucking matter because it isnt to be taken seriously. This game was never a serious competitive shooter. Wutville has issues that i would class as actually mattering because theyre almost game breaking exploits. Setting up indestructible level 3 sentries under the map that can shoot you through the ground is annoying enough to be classed as an actual issue. The map being dark or a couple bosses being a small nuisance isnt really an issue. The holes in the map were an easy fix that even *I* could do. I think in terms of issues, this map is of little significance with its problems especially after the patch.
![[TF2] The Wonderful World of Spells](/img/1.gif)
"Bloodwater is an Embarrassment"
Wutville: becomes an official map
"Bloodwater is a Masterpiece"
lol
Tbh both run horribly in my potato laptop, that includes Hassle Castle and the sawmill map
@@leonardo9259 play on 2fort, Well and Turbine exclusively
@@karlbischof2807 nah, most of payload, attack/defend and 5cp run just fine. no need to go idle in a endless ctf match
@@leonardo9259 so now i wonder why you cant play on sawmill
Watching this after Wutville was added is interesting. I wasn't even aware of the issues with this map because I only played it like twice for the contract, simply because the gimmick spam was so bad. Every Halloween, one has to slog through maps that may have been great on their own, but instead have a decade's worth of Halloween gimmicks slapped on top. The first time I played Bloodwater, I got spawncamped three or four times in a row due to bosses and random crits. Bosses were never even designed to fight outside of their home maps and are supposed to be tough enough that both teams have to work together to kill them (hence why a truce period was added to the original Monoculus and Merasmus fights). The constant bosses, spells, and gimmicks are what really ruins SF for me every year and why I tend to stick to older event maps or just regular Casual if I want to actually have fun. I'm not sure why having pumpkin bombs, crit pumpkins, and random crits is still not enough RNG for mapmakers.
You can never have enough rng
As the sniper once said; Professionals have standards.
Memento mori
My standard have been letting me down for the past event maps. Should I lower them?
@@Justalilsilly yesn’t
Be polite...
I wouldn't be surprised if Halloween updates were handled automatically, since Volvo doesn't even wanna touch this game anymore. We can only hope now that one day they'll return to it...
"But valve only said:
Dota, Dota, CS:GO, Dota, Dota, CS:GO"
Wow. I didn't know volvo also worked in game development.
@@evanchismark3092 hahahhahahahahah
Abandon hope
Not to mention the Hawaiian punch "blood" that can hide buildings like mini sentries and teleporters.
I didn’t even know there WAS a death pit at the first point lol
it's honestly surprising that valve did manage to top precipice in "worst added event map"
if only you knew how bad things really are
@@cia4u401 yes wutville exists now
@@Acejacksonandfriends They can't help but exceed their own accomplishments. Truly, a gifted company.
and then wutville was added, which is in a league of its own
THANK YOU, SOMEONE WHO AGREES PRECIPICE IS GARBAGE
Surprisingly enough, 5 seconds is a shorter setup time than 1:10 seconds
I want to hope.. to believe Valve just cares even a little bit, but this is just embarrassing..
*cries in wutville*
I'm 200th like
ayy whats up alibi
bro the game is 14 yrs old yall lucky you keep getting any new maps at all
Ever since WutVille was added to the game, that was the final nail in the coffin for me. The TF Team is nonexistent and Valve doesn't seem to care about their game anymore. All we've gotten in the last three years were Halloween and Smissmas updates, and they seem to get worse each year. Valve is all about quality, and yet these maps are anything but that.
Add a community in denial that the game is still alive.
I like Bloodwater simply because of that chaos factor. You don’t hop onto Bloodwater to play a regular game of Payload, you hop onto Bloodwater when you’re bored and want uncontrollable chaos.
“Bloodwater is an embarrassment.”
*Wutville would like to know your location.*
I know I’m a bit late to this, but still. You’re honestly claiming that this entire update is ruined (12:05) because of an event Halloween Map (a map group known for being completely unbalanced it’s entire existence) with a few minor graphical and balence issues, that were both patched after its release. I understand not liking a map, but trying to rally people against Valve, and saying that an entire update was a waste just because you have issues with this kinda flawed map, which is one of four, is really stupid. However, I’ll admit that the video quality itself is really good, and I agree the argument has some merit. Keep up the good work.
^
Someone missed the point
Completely agree. This guy is nitpicking and over exaggerating like hell
Valve deserves the nitpicking.
@@verisimuli Yes, valve hasn't done anything to stop the bots, which Valve is to blame. But I don't think that this map is a problem in the grand scheme of things. They selected a somewhat flawed map, which was fixed in like 2 weeks. That's it. I mean, even Uncle Dane enjoyed it so... he is nitpicking about something completely wrong.
If only we would know what a horrid map is to come. The word we all dread, wutville
I like blood water for some reason.
Maybe it's because I have poor tastes, or maybe I just enjoy badwater a whole lot.
I enjoyed it for the stupid amount of chaos.
Nothing wrong with enjoying sth bad like Bloodwater
The design is good because it's badwater. This guy is nitpicking.
Very few things can be considered poor tastes
Me watching this video knowing damn well my maps will never be this good
I actually only liked hassle castle this year, not that im complaining about getting maps, but I dont think anyone was expecting these maps to get in. I didnt even know they existed, I was really under the impression that more polished maps such as spellway, hearth, dustbowl event and maybe farmageddon was gonna get in, but in turn we got (and no disrespect to the map creators) some pretty mediocre maps. Because to me looks/originality is just as important as gameplay to make a map well loved.
But anyway, amazing vid, really high quality for a 100 sub channel, keep up the good work!
I think most of the maps submitted this year, like farmageddon, dustbowl event and such were submitted too late to be even considered. All these maps picked up were maps that are older. Atleast year or two. Perhaps next year there is more chances for any older map or maps submitted within recent months. Or could be they just announce that they are do with old maps, make some new ones like 2015.
>dustbowl
>not a mediocre map
megalo decent lot of fun for a koth map a little open but fun
"Professionals have standards"
- Mun-dee, 1970's
Unpopular opinion: As bad as it is, I still think Bloodwater is better than Badwater for one single reason.
Thanks to the spells/bosses, it doesn't stalemate into boring 10-minute fuckfests every round.
Just had a bad match?
They also reduced the spawnrates for Monoculous and HHH, so the linchpin of this video has been rendered obsolete (although it could be argued that that's also the case on account of it not having been Scream Fortress for a month). Maybe it's because I didn't get around to playing it until it was patched or maybe it's just my love of the Scream Fortress aesthetic, but I enjoyed this map a lot when I played it. Should they have been fixed before it was added? Of course. But they did put in the effort to rebalance and fix it post-release and I think that's worth acknowledging, especially when there's a _certain other map_ that has yet to see that treatment.
It was not the spawn rates that were the issue, it was the spawn times. Bosses could certainly work, as long as they're not being spawned in almost right on top of each other. All the bosses would have been less aggravating if they only had the chance to spawn once a round.
On the surface, it sounds like just reducing the chances of a certain boss spawning is good. But just because there's a lower chance for a boss to spawn doesn't mean that it's solved the problem. It just makes the problem less likely to happen, instead of trying to solve the problem outright. Which is why HHH was ultimately removed, as the "fix" didn't end up fixing the problem. Removing HHH was the ultimate band-aid fix, as the map maker couldn't think of any way to properly fix the spawn times.
@@Jakapoa But when it's weighted to spawn skeletons much more it doesn't break the pace in the same way that the bosses do. In fact, I kind of found myself enjoying the small skeletons being around because it made the walk from spawn to the cart more engaging in a simple (admittedly potentially obnoxious) way. I don't really think there's a problem with the occasional boss spawn, and that's the state it's currently in.
4:27 Atleast there's a cool feature where you can use the pumpkin bombs to bomb jump into the little building leading to red spawn. It's hard to pull off but it was very satisfying when I did it as engie and got a teleporter there :)
"I can't see shit" -me during the time I played in this map.
Bloodwater actually would be pretty good for someone trying out the halloween style for the first time, but y'know, this is official so they don't get that "first time" pass.
Well done, nice seeing more of the technical side of things. Subbed.
Suddenly bloodwater looks like a much better map after wutville.
Because bloodwater at its core is still Badwater.
FYI, Valve does not fix community maps, the creators of those maps do the changes, and valve just updates them into the game.
I also know that even if you do a lot of work for a map and think its at quite good level, when 100 000 people get to roam in it, theres always something found that you missed while mapping.
I'm confused if you actually watched the video.
At no point do I ever say that Valve needs to fix this, or if Valve should fix this (I am well aware of Valve's role in adding community content). And while some issues were definitely unnoticeable, needing to fix the lighting in two whole sections of the map shouldn't be something that takes a large amount of players to be pointed out.
@@Jakapoa You did say "Valva patched the map" so i guess i jumped into conclusions.
4:34 You can tell that Pyro was waiting there for ages for someone to come by so they could use the death-pit.
It’s sad how Valve has put the TF2 community in a state where the community is so desperate for content they’ll accept anything no matter how bad it is
Oh my god this map was awful.
I litterally couldn't leave spawn as the blue team to reach the final point because by the time I got there, multiple enemies would've scattered my team all over the place making Red's job basically a clean up job.
The map was indeed way too dark and the chokepoints make spells absolutely broken and overpowered.
But ya know, I thought it was just me being grumpy. It was just a scream fortress map i thought, some players in my matches seemed to enjoy it. I'm sure it's actually okay.
Now that I've seen your video I completely agree with what I thought earlier. The map is even more broken than I thought. Great video!
Wow our standards were a lot higher back then. Every map added since has just gotten worse and worse in terms of polish and balance.
Map creators gangsta until the guy who knows how to use hammer editor shows up
I actually like that there is A map that can potentially show off the horseman's boss-attacking behavior. that amuses me.
Otherwise, bloodwater sucks.
i'm actually friends with one of the devs, iron!
That undertale music though when you explained the horseman logic
Very nicely put together video, you didn't sound overly angry at any point. Proper and accurate criticisms all-throughout. You've earned yourself a subscriber my friend.
and then wutville
2:35 *inhales*
VISIBLE
NODRAW
Gimmicks should be reserved for new maps specifically designed around them, not for spooky reskins of old maps. Except for Helltower because Hightower is already a clusterfuck so adding even more bullshit on top of that just adds to the experience.
I didn't have a problem with this map and i liked the new maps, granted i came back to tf2 after the first bloodwater patch, for me bloodwater was just bad water with spells and a few bosses, most of the issues were cosmetic and I'd actually have a problem if it had exploits or fps drops but no it was just some hardly noticeable cosmetic stuff that i didn't notice outside of your video, maybe the lighting thing but overall my only complaint was me never liking bosses and they could have done more stuff with the blood, just that 1 pool that slightly changes how you capture 3rd was too little, but i like spells and the pits being on 1v1 areas instead of on big choke points was an interesting style, like that one on the corner at last makes those 1v1's faster, i like the spells and badwater and that map has both of those things, also pumpkin cart sounded like one of those soundboard effects some players have which i thought were weird so i ignored them, with all the gunfire it isn't a big distraction
I love how bloodwater is just fucking utter chaos, reminds me of 2fort and I love that playstyle
it gives me so much nostalgia and its super fun because its chaotic, you probably play comp every day and mge
10:45
Audio: Having these set at these delay times may make it balanced for Helltower but for Bloodwater it makes the map even more of a chaotic mess!
Gameplay: saves himself with jar of bread flavoured substances and with only 4hp leftover but then dies after jumping off the balcony.
B-b-but unkle dan said this map is funi!!!!!
Yea I actually don't mind bosses too much in halloween maps, but like you say , in plr_helltower you have no time limit. And in Manor, the HHH often is not going to go to the capture point. In Bloodwater, the many different types of bosses that appear all the time REALLY get in the way of trying to capture the payload cart objectives. I was doing halloween contracts on this map, and I started to really hate it because of all the boss spam.
At one point the skeleton king, who spawns outside of blue forward spawn.. did just that.. and blue team (us) were locked in our spawn room for >2 minutes, as players would spawn in, walk out of the door, lure the HHH back towards the door, etc, repeat x50. It was horrific! And that would be fine if we had had a second way out of spawn, like if the author realised "oh this could be an issue, I'll design around this issue", but that didn't occur.
I am also a bit annoyed!
It makes me think the map wasn't playtested before it was added to the game. Which is , as you say , and I agree, an embarrassment.
HHH goes only to the nearest capture point when it cannot see enemies who are IT or within 1000 hammer units or so. I think this map pretty much copies not only helltower, but also hellstone that uses the bosses on each point as well as skeletons and monoculus spawning with the clock event, but with less thought way.
Compared to Wutville, this video comes across as nitpicking.
I need to see a pl map with 3 segments with each segment having 3 points, having skelies king skelly, merasmus cards and himself, horseless headless horseman, monoculus, spells, hell, pumpkin realm, and pretty much all the halloween gimmicks
I would ask for your opinions on Wutville but I'm not sure you or I are really prepared for the absolute marathon of a video it'd be.
Amazing video. Really in-depth, clear and straight to the point.
I liked blood water, it was stupid fun. The only thing that bothered me was the lights on the first point (a problem with current Christmas map). Sure it's kinda bad that valve seems not to care for the quality on the new content, but it's also true that it's not the end of the world, I mean maps can be updated, specially with the spaghetti code that tf has.
This is a good vid. ZF reference is a throwback TBH.
“You’ve got to have standards, even as painful as it may be.”
lmao and then we got wutville
I'm glad someone else took issue with this year's Scream Fortress. If you ask me, there seems to be a persisting trend of Halloween Payload (not Payload Race) maps being the epitome of lazy design.
Nearly every -stone suffixed map has some sort of issue with their overuse or poorly implemented bosses. The only one I consider passable is Gravestone(?) the one based on Grindstone(?, the lumberyard map). Hellstone or whichever one that has the winner decided by a bumper cart race is EXTREMELY unsatisfying to play when the winner is not decided by who defends or attacks successfully, it's about who wins the arbitrary go-kart race at the with wonky exaggerated physics.
It doesn't work like Carnival of Carnage which has relatively short rounds with lengthy mini-games, it is a 3+ point Payload map with tight corridors and very annoyingly close spawn locations.
I could write rants about most, if not all, Halloween Payload maps being painfully generic and unfulfilling to play. However, I feel like I'd be alone is mentioning how frustrating for an objective-based mode to be constantly hampered by these gaudy, festive inclusions.
(And despite being somewhat inspired, Precipice's sightlines, lengthy walk to the frontlines, and obnoxious pumpkin placement still makes it the worst in my opinion.)
Fun fact, all -stone maps (and two others, Erebus and Terror) are made by the same person
So, because one map is bad, the entire update is bad?
map's still fun, no matter what grievances the community may have. Above all, I'm just upset that it's accepted as an official map, but that would almost be ignoring the fact that almost _every_ official map has had to undergo changes since their addition to the game. If this were a community map, it would be one of my favorites. I feel like to a lot of people, mapping is more about standards rather than how much fun the maps actually are.
Bruh why do you sound so angry? I played this map for the whole Halloween event and I wasn’t bothered by a single thing. There’s no need to sound like you just watched Logan Paul’s apology. Take a chill pill man.
I mean i liked bloodwater
But i know it had a shitload of issues
I’ve played this map before, and it really is that dark. I didn’t even realize how shitty that made it until I watched this, that was years ago
dude you should make more vids like this, its awesome
Blood water is more like hell than hell tower
I *despise* skeletons and bosses, which sucks because it feels like *every* Halloween map has them.
I love the idea of bloodwater beeing a Halloween badwater but why are there these 200000000000 other gamemodes and so fucking bad lighting
what are we complaining about again?
Idk, I really enjoyed my time on this map. I think I played mostly after the patch, but it was a lot of fun either way. There were glitches, but as long as they didn't open things up for people to build sentries under the map it didn't get me hot and bothered or anything. And sure, the shadow areas do make things a bit scary when you never know who or what could be in there, but I suppose that's part of the challenge and the point. It is a spooky map for a competitive game after all.
My only gripe is that the one large deathpit on the less trafficked route is a bit too large and unlit. Beyond that, the rest are fine. The one in that cubby by the first point is good for pyros' airblasts and to reduce the turtling that can happen in that spot on regular badwater. Beyond the technical issues though, I think the theme here is just a different matter of taste. Is this map everything and the kitchen sink? Yeah, and I'm here for it. I love the insanity of the map, and so do a lot of other folks. For a more traditional playstyle, though, other maps (including OG Badwater) still exist.
Thanks for the chadly breakdown of the map's logic, as an aspiring game dev this shit tasty.
My conspiracy theory is that Valve just wants us to understand they dont give a damn about tf2 anymore so they're also forcing us to hate it, slowly but gradually.
The dark lighting could have been turned into a cool mechanic where people have to use a flashlight.
Bloodwater is badwater but worse
guess you could say they should've named it "worsewater"
Well I really liked this map anyway
Wutville: hold my beer
Wutville: _Allow Me To Introduce Myself_
christ dude just have fun its not permanent
i appreciate the deep dives into the programming behind the maps - and how stunningly lazy the devs of bloodwater seemingly are.
it really is a shame that the majority of the tf2 fanbase will just accept this because they're so starved for content that literally anything they get is considered the second coming. how about instead of clapping like seals, we actually say to valve that this is not fucking good enough and we expect actual quality if they're going to bother updating the game in the first place?
I love all the meme and gimmick maps in the world, but not even I would touch bloodwater
As a Spy main I wish I would've known about that dark area beinga near flawless hiding spot. Would've been fun to fuck with Engineers back there.
The only good thing about the map is the blood water, the map name already tells you what's good, the literal blood, under the bridge.
i dong agree that the pits have to serve as a main obstacle but everything else is 100% correct
I think this Spawn rules would be good on something like.... Player Destruction is it? the TDM one.
Imagine having a halloween Team Deadmatch where its two teams, hordes of skeletons and every now and then a boss. Monoculous if it was me.
Could be a really cool and chaotic gameode to mess around with. In a large enough map of course.
Fun fact: you can easily crash bloodwater in casual by just having everyone play demo and shoot grenades and stickybombs
Stand User: Horseless Headless Horseman
Stand Name: King Crimson
I mean they must’ve made a really good Halloween map because the map design is horrifyingly bad
I honestly liked blood water it did feel too gimmicky but I didn’t even realize the manor clip thing. However it woulda been nice to fix the spawn logic
this is the scream fortress wutville of all time
This map is actually pretty good for Masochists who wants to play in the dark.
This map is just the 'haha chaos look at it go' type mindset, it's shit for general play and more.
you see, this is an mvm map mistakenly labeled as payload
Horsemen can also clip trough whole sections of maps
I don’t get what’s supposed to be wrong at 11:23
I can't help but suspect that the authors don't actually know how map event logic works, so they just copied it. Like, they wouldn't even know how to fix it. Of course, the solution to that is to learn how to work with map events.
they had a year to fix this :/
Not necessarily. While the map is (4) years old, Valve would not have notified the map creators until a few months prior.
So you thought bloodwater was bad? Well allow me to introduce Ghost fort.
Yeah that "official" map rly rly sucks.
the music timing is great
I think something about didn't like you saying bloodwater is a bad map because RUclips just closed when you said that.
little did he know of the horror wutville would bring
They are silly event maps not to be used in a serious competitive setting. Most of the issues dont fucking matter because it isnt to be taken seriously. This game was never a serious competitive shooter. Wutville has issues that i would class as actually mattering because theyre almost game breaking exploits. Setting up indestructible level 3 sentries under the map that can shoot you through the ground is annoying enough to be classed as an actual issue. The map being dark or a couple bosses being a small nuisance isnt really an issue. The holes in the map were an easy fix that even *I* could do. I think in terms of issues, this map is of little significance with its problems especially after the patch.
Have you ever tried map making?
*9:05** Can I copy your homework?*
*Yes, but change it a little.*
Calm down bro. It’s no wutville
Uh the video was made before wutville
What if merasmus was added to this map too....
Ah yes, bloodwater, the badwater update that fucked every good sniper sightline. Whoever made the map clearly does not like sniper.