So yeah a couple of sims that were left out (purely by mistake i'll add) R3E - Pure sim. It looked pretty dated by today's standard, but this is an awesome sim for those who aren't interested in driving GT3s at Spa over and over again (Tho you can do that if you want). It also has the Group 5 cars which are probably the most difficult/rewarding cars available to drive in any sim LFS - I've honestly not played enough of this to give a proper opinion (my sim racing 'career' started with rF1) I'd love to hear your thoughts tho. GTR 2 - At the time i'd label it as a pure sim, but given advances this game sorta falls into the Sim-ish catagory. Still an amazing game and definitely worth the effort of booting up every now and then. GPL - I've never got this game working correctly so I can't comment. Ask GPLaps!
As a sim drifter/racer and real life drifter/racer also. I would degrade AC to simlatourish, it needs the ACC physics at least. But from what i heard and search also looked around i would but LFS on above Pure Simulator. I could say it's a physics book copied to an app that have car's in it. Also comes R3E after it but also needs few modifications. For my opinion i don't care much about sounds and graphics i care more about driving so that's my opinion and those are facts.
Just because it's a common trend doesn't mean it's horrible, I find tier lists hilarious when the person doing the list is engaging and has some spicy takes lol
@@turtlepowa What do you want to simulate? You can't really do realistic racing without a steering wheel, but there are other options. I'm tempted to say the most serious racing game that actually works well is Trackmania, the skill ceiling is massive and it's perfectly viable with a keyboard. For other types of games, I do like Snowrunner a lot.
Happy to see Pyongyang Racing finally get the credit it deserves as the greatest racing sim of all time! 😁 Its only problem is that I can only finish second to this Kimi Jung Il guy.
@@vitreo1363 Kim is the greatest Teletubby of them all, and such an all round nice guy. A finely honed athlete, master of diplomacy and a champion of free speech... surely a candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize? He could share it with that other paragon of virtue, Vladimir Putin. ☠️💩
What was great about PC2 was that it made Sim racing accessible to a whole load of people that never would have thought about buying a PC & a Wheel to get into it proper. I made a load of exotic, historic, rare cars & circuits available off the shelf to console users. For that it holds a special place for me & many of my friends.
I agree 100%. We had an Xbox league in Denmark with about 16 people in PC2 and that period was what really got me into simracing. Now i got a pc, direct drive, simrig etc.
PC2 is how I really got into sim racing as well! Lots of great memories learning the ropes and racing online. But now, after getting a taste of the higher level stuff, PC2 feels really iffy.
@@JubbLaRacing The perfect opposite for me. I don't know why but I never managed to get a feel in my wheel in assetto corsa where I could (after getting the custom FFB files) in PC2. Assetto's settings always felt numb and heavy so it stayed unplayed during my PC2 time. I think I sould try again now and fight to find a setting that feels right with it.
I love that there are great games in every category. If I don't feel like getting sweaty af in Mario Kart, I can always sit back and relax with some Assetto Corsa
I worked on the original _Need For Speed_ PS1 and it is amazing to see the progress of racing games. We ran our physics at 100 Hz with rendering at 30 Hz. Some of the racing games are running their tire sims at 600+ Hz today!
@@superluismigueL100 which is worth it, far cheaper than when I was doing golfing, and at that level of intensity its more of a hobby on its own rather than being lumped in with gaming
Oh, yes we are, and many of us keep asking for more. I honestly feel bad for devs because many of them put in all the work and get shit on for it anyways
Arcade games is what got must of us into motorsport and cars in general, let's be real here. I still remember playing NFSU2 and getting excited about Fast and Furious movies as a teen and I am still nostalgic about old racing games. Playing with a proper steering wheel was a thing you did in arcades if you were lucky, nowadays it's a lot more accessable and you don't need a masters degree to make it work on your home system.
@@hileutewie nfsu2 and colin mcrae rally were the 2 games that started my love for cars and i was like 5 or 6 years old when playing those games when they came out...and after that the best one was deffinetly nfsc and fast and furious franchise especially tokyo drift which is my favourite
So my takeaway from this, as a relative newcomer to sim-racing (and only plays console atm), is that I gravitate towards games that are somewhere in between pure simulators and arcade-y racing games, as I mainly go for Project Cars 2, F1 22 (and F1 2019 for classic cars), and Gran Turismo 7, while occasionally dabbling in the Assetto Corsa series. Also not ashamed to say that you, Jimmy, are the guy that got me into sim-racing. Your videos are fun and informative and you seem to be a really nice guy in every one of them.
The more you play Wreckfest, the more arcadey it starts to feel. At first, it does feel pretty decent, but as time passes and you figure out how to actually drive fast, you notice just how weird the physics are. After 1600 hours, i've figured out nothing that you'd do in a sim is going to make you fast there :P
What sucks about it atm (on PS4 at least) is that people turn off all the fun stuff. You can't troll or get trolled in it anymore :( That was the reason I played it, to see how good I could do before a combine harvester intentionally going the wrong way smashed me into a pink bus with a sharkfin on it or something. Every stupid scenario I survived made me ecstatic, and every one I didn't made me laugh.
yea it was fun for the wrecking ngl, but at some point you realize that you can get away by just holding down the gas. im no sim racer, but the "go full speed at all times" type of games dont rub me the right way either
Would’ve love to seen Live For Speed in this list, even if it’s 20 years old, intoday’s world it’s handling and tyre physics are still debatable to be the best.
Came for this comment right here, I've played, asseto, beamNG, project cars, dirt rallies, and always and always come back to live for speed.... I'm so stunned how is this game so much ignored by the youtubers....
LFS has been in the shadows for well over a decade. And i hope it stays like that. The community is pretty damn pure when compared to the rest. Yeah, theres some shitty brasil drivers here and there but its so clean vast majority of the time and I just love everyone that holds it close to them. It's special in so many ways and is the BEST recipe for turning yourself into a weapon on four wheels.
I think that SMS would be very happy with "middle of the road". Accessibility was exactly its strength. Hugh amount of content, engaging enough to think about the ideas behind racing (even if some of them don't quite work right). It was exactly how I got in to sim racing. Most importantly "sim vs arcade" is independent of "enjoyable vs not enjoyable"
Yeah and those games are very important, because they are the wa, of entry for new players. Just look at the Combat Flight Sim community, before War Thunder and IL-2 Great Battles they had massive problems getting new players in. And thanks to WT people got into this starting with arcade then "realistic" and then "Sim Battles" making the progression from pure arcade to Arcade-like ( realistic Battles), and then to middle of the road ("Simulator Battles "). And when they got bored of that they wen to IL-2 Great Battles (Simulator-ish) ad stayed there for a while. After that some went on to the pure Simulator tier where there are DCS World, Il-2 Cliffs of Dover and Falcon BMS. Now most of us hate WT for how much of a Cashgrab it has become, being actually more expensive than DCS, and how much of it's potential it has squandered. But at least it has brought all those new players to the community and has revitalized the genre.
Putting it in the same tier as Wreckfest is WILD. It should be sim-ish. Wreckfest is just damage, that’s it. Everything else is barely realistic at best.
@@dylanzrim3635 Plus, I have never had more fun in any racing game than doing a multi class endurance race with firends in random weather. PC2 is just so much more fun that other sims ive tried.
Got AMS because of this channel, ended up getting AMS2 after enjoying AMS. I love the way 2's tracks look and love the day/night and weather. Probably my favorite sim, and all because you recommended the first one. The only other game I play as much as automobilista 2 is ACC. Reiza does an excellent job with project cars' engine. And really when it comes down do it when I am playing other games with the same tracks as AMS2 I prefer the AMS2 track. I won't say criticism of AMS2 isn't valid, or whatever, but what Reiza is doing is perfect for me, and not many games let you race f1 2022 cars against superKarts and copa trucks at silverstone while it is pouring rain.
GT7 is the only game on the list that keeps me coming back. I also think putting it middle of the road is a good choice. It really is flexible enough that you can get it to sim-ish if you tweak the settings and use a proper sim rig or get it arcade-ish if you just want to turn on all the assists and play on the couch with a controller.
"Middle of the road" is I think also exactly what games like Forza and Gran Turismo are vying for; the range and flexibility to turn assists off with a force feedback wheel / pedals setup and race in leagues where you have to select and tune your cars correctly for the best balance of pace versus fuel burn and tyre wear, but also games where you can put on some of the driver assists and plug in your favourite controller and still have a good time doing laps of whatever circuit in whatever car. They're about the most "sim" a lot of more casual racing fans are going to want to play (speaking from personal experience on this one), and cover a broad enough range those drivers can happily progress their skills a lot with those games, but also arcade-y enough to always be approachable mainstream and console-playable titles maximizing the ability for more people to get into "sim" racing in the first place. People who know they want to do sim racing but want to ease themselves in, people who know they don't want to do true sim racing but want something approaching the "sim experience", and people who don't really care that much about sim vs arcade and just want good mainstream racing titles to enjoy all happily playing through the singleplayer experience and joining online lobbies together.
I've never been more torn about a game then GT7... I don't have time to play online and that's where it really shines... Collecting cars is great and racing is fun... I just wish it offered a more realistic career mode with qualifying rounds and a schedule... Gets boring starting in last place every race
@@TehFrenchy29 Totally agree. I love Gran Tursimo for what it's there for. It's initial position is definitely to keep accessibility for a wider range of people. Full sims (Cars/Planes/Especially Helicopters) simply are not accessible to the majority. I also adore Beamng and AMS 1 but I can absolutely understand how people would shy away from full-on sims due to difficulty. Although in reality I don't think it's only difficult to drive the cars but difficult to drive without feeling g-forces through a screen and applying driving logic only through sight on a screen no matter what sim rig you may have. For an example, my wife doesn't know how to drive or drive a car at all and doesn't care to know. To stress how bad she is, she has to ask if the gas pedal is always the right one..... When she tries AC she literally can't keep the car straight or go through a turn smoothly at all. When I take her karting, although she's not the fastest, she's definitely MUCH better behind the wheel of a kart than a screen. She still made some miscalculations but her awareness was far above what I thought it would be and after about 5-10 minutes she could consistently go around the track relatively smoothly.
I think the list is almost completely spot on though I would put Automobilista 2 in the Pure Simulator section. I think you are right that after all of these years, Assetto Corsa is still a beast in the pure simulation space. It is a shame they gave up development on it but thank you modders for keeping it alive! BeamNG continues to surprise me which is a good thing.
Ams2 is based on pcars2 physics engine and it has major flaws. You can't feel understeer or any loss of lateral grip. Also, if you yank the wheel to full lock while on throttle in an RWD car, it doesn't spin out. It goes straight. It doesn't feel right
@@akosabraham7914 You can absolutely feel understeer and loss of lateral grip along with more stuff. Dont know what car you was driving that you dont spin or how you was doing, but I still to see a car at AMS2 that will not spin under braking or use of throttle if you do it wrong.
@@IronwillNeo I swear 99% of the people that criticizes AMS 2 only played the beta and never touched the game again it received some massive improvements, specially in the relatively recent 1.4 update, and Jimmy is yet to try that update.
AMS2 is where I end up 95% of the time now. To be honest, I will never have the experience of what a real race car feels like at the limit, so I can't make good judgements on what is "real" sim or not. I enjoy AMS2 for what it is, and that's good enough for me.
Automobilista 2 is actually the best sim now after 1.4 and it's as much a sim as AC/ACC/RF2/iRacing are. I think that it's even more sim then AC in general (most played stuff online in AC is driving or drifting in some traffic in Japan; is that sim? It doesn't feel sim to me AT ALL). No need to see Jimmy's subjective list as objective, it's just his opinion and he's completely wrong with Automobilista 2 in my opinion.
@@turbohenk702 I boot up AMS2 every other week or so for a bit of casual fun and unfortunately... There are still some things that just feel a bit "off" in AMS2, and that's with the good cars. Some cars are just way off. Supposedly a recent update has helped things, but when I tried the ARC and V8 supercar earlier this year they were horrific. The lower tier GT cars like the Ginettas also seem very neglected physics-wise. I tend to stick with the GT3s and GTEs because every time I tested out another car category I was left disappointed. Most of the people who I've seen heap praise on AMS2 seem to live in open wheelers, so maybe it's stronger there? I'm not an open wheeler guy so I couldn't say. I do race in real life also (nowhere near Jimmy's level of course), and I'd say AMS2 is good but not quite top tier sim yet IMO. I agree with Jimmy's placement.
after doing ACC leagues and iracing, i gave all those up and now i just mostly do ams2, good cars, good tracks.. and great vr. i hated the ffb in the beginning, but it is now my favorite of the lot and the physics have gotten to be absolutely spot on.
I boot up AMS2 more than anything else these days. While its certainly not perfect I love the content it provides, especially the Brazilian Stock Car Series. Its has stuff that is different from the mainstream.
I suddenly recalled that many years ago I worked on improvements of realistic specifications and parameters for rFactor1 mod about Group B bolides and tyre modelling for it ( I was just pissed off about all unrealistic aspects and just wanted to run for myself), but didn't finished and forgot about it on my old pc. Damn, after this Jimmy's video I caught myself thinking about that with some wishes to find and continue that "mini-project" ..
Agreed! I love seeing Beamng in the top tier, definitely my number 1 of all and improves with every update. Few tweaks for me is I'd ALMOST bump Snowrunner up to simulator-ish, it's unique in what it does even though wheel support isn't great. If you had Dirt 3 on the list, it would deserve a Middle of the Road spot, certainly higher than Dirt 5. I'd might even add My Summer Car to Middle of the Road MAYBE simulator-ish.
Fantastic list. I agree with 99% of your choices. GT7 being the one I thought should be at least one tier up. I LOVE me some racing games. Gots me a wheel and all and truly makes the difference.
@@leruty that isn't what determines simulator!... Simulator is how accurate it is to real racing, and coming from a guy been lucky enough to actually go race I can say it comes much closer than other's on the list definitely, should be 1 notch up...
Agreed. The driving physics of gt3 and gt4 cars is accurate enough that I was able to pretty seamlessly go between ACC and GT7 without much adaptation. Gt7 just simplifies things a lot online by removing car/tire setting adjustments and lacks a bit of force feedback. Overall though, feels pretty similar to race on either.
GT7 never was in that simulator-ish, and will never be since it's not what they want. They wand a racing game that takes the most fun of the sims racing, and can be played with controler by everyone. This means having sone concessions to make it fun and understandable for most. IMO they should keep going down that road wich is the way to open this genre to more people
Mario Kart 8 is pure sim, being hit by a blue shell with an angry Luigi giving you the stare down on his way by while using a magic mushroom is exactly like the real thing
Gtr2 with the NAP mod, blasting through spa with an mc12 GT1 is still one of the most satisfying thing I've ever tried. I'm surprised you didn't put it on the list
@@felipetartas5434 I actually don't know anymore, here in italy i downloaded it from a website called "drivingitalia", but i think you can still get it from some sim racing forum or similar
The thing I love about GT7 is the Dualsense support. Being able to tell grip from the feel of the pedals isn't something you get in real cars but it's a really good replacement for butt feel. For me at least, I'm faster than with a force feedback wheel.(I don't own a wheel so it's at least partially lack of practice) Also Wreckfest is the BEST Dualsense game on PS5
You're faster because of practice like you said and because you probably don't know how to left foot brake anywhere near as precisely as you can left finger break lol
I don't get the point of even commenting this if you don't have a wheel. Who cares about controller vibration dude. Get a wheel or go drive a real car/bike.
@@Cymanytb I disagree - he makes a good point. For the (many) people who either can't afford, don't have the space for or plain and simple don't want a wheel... the haptic feedback is fantastic on GT7. I've put my wheel away and play GT7 on pad as the haptics give such good feedback you know what's going on.
I do notice just how much assistance you get in dirt rally with a wheel, even with the assistance as turned off as possible, makes it more difficult in my opinion.
Surprised that Live For Speed was not included in the list. Interested to hear in which category Jimmer and others would put it in? If you reply, please base the rating on your experience.
I played Live for speed as a kid before i knew it was a sim. I just knew it was the most realistic racing game i could find. Playing on keyboard, I learned all about tuning, tire wear, and how to burn through a clutch lol. I remember LFS lets you see all the forces acting on each tire and that was so useful for figuring out oversteer/understeer as well as brake bias. I still wish there was a view like that in all the other sims but i figured its kind of cheating lol. But if u havent seen it coming, it’s a full simulator for me lol.
Still playing LFS in a daily basis just because I have some sort of connection to it, I say it's definitely nothing less than a pure simulator. And plus, here is an interesting thing: LFS is one of the least problematic sims ever. It's literally plug and play on every occasion, any spec pc, any racing equipment, etc. If you just want to do some hotlaps or hang out with friends online in servers, it's special. And the physics and the way the car works feels so direct and so "real-time" and dynamic to me.
I think he went for the most actual ones. It lacks RBR rally, Toca race driver 3, Live for Speed, and some other classic driving games people love from other decaded.
AMS 1 absolutely blew my mind, when I first played it. The handling is stunning and also the force feedback is absolutely on point. The driving in BeamNG ist getting better with every update in my opinion and it can be taken seriously nowadays.
Project Cars 2. Where it all began for me. A missionary at my church left his PS4 for the kids there, and after the service my brother and I would do countless laps. I really wish i could get this game for PC now.
Side note: Even though Forza Horizon is aimed to be arcadish, it shares the same physics model as Forza Motorsport. Both Forza's and GT7 I think deserve a single bump upward. Solid List!
it's more in depth than forza 7 no matter what he thinks. forza doesnt have fuel consumption, working gauges, etc so that if of itself puts it on top lol
@@michaelspyker8390 forza doesnt even have the top speed and corner speeds right in the mclaren mercedes GT3. Jan Seyffarth found so many issues in Forza 7, its embarassing. Putting PC2 on same level as forza and wreckfest is so unbelievable wrong by him, wow. I didnt expect that from Jimmy :x
I thought Project Cars 2 had pretty awful physics. Doesn’t matter how much depth and variety they have if they completely miss on the fundamentals. In that respect, I’d play GT7 and Forza 7 every time over it. I can confidently play Assetto Corsa even with a controller because the physics are so intuitive. Project Cars 2 was consistently baffling and made no sense.
Since you are a real racer, that lends credibility to the list. I don't see Lando or Max doing this (I can't believe they wouldn't have the time or anything). Of the ones I've played, I like your ratings. I think I would have given AMS2 a "pure simulator" rating, but I've never raced a real car. Thanks for the video!
With Horizon and Need For Speed in the list I wished for the original TDU Test Drive Unlimited to have made it on the list, too ...but interesting video anyway.
God I loved TDU. SO SO MUCH. I wish forza horizon 5 had simulator mode and VR and full wheel and pedal support. I still remember just cruising around for hours in “simulator mode“ aka floaty cars in TDU and just enjoying it so much. I hope the new TDU is gonna be a banger!
God I loved TDU. SO SO MUCH. I wish forza horizon 5 had simulator mode and VR and full wheel and pedal support. I still remember just cruising around for hours in “simulator mode“ aka floaty cars in TDU and just enjoying it so much. I hope the new TDU is gonna be a banger!
@@FPV_sk8 I think the PC2 sim rating depends on a lot which car and which track you drive, too. If uneven quality results in no-sim, then the rating was correct. If you consider best cars on best tracks, PC2 is at least simulator-ish. If you take the worst cars on worst tracks, it's arcade-ish.
It is now 2024. I agree with where you placed all those games and how you categorized them. You may want to look at AMS2 again with their newest patch they did. Others say AMS2 is much better experience now. RF2 also updated and added better online ratings.
wow, i could barely tell the difference between project cars 2 and assetto corsa back when i first got into sim racing, i have not played pc2 in years so i cant judge it. but i wouldve definitely thought it would have been classed as 'simulator-ish' due to the physics, the weather, the pitting etc. 'middle of the road' does seem a bit unfair on it. again, i have not played it recently and it may be way more arcade than i rememeber. edit: plus for its time it had decent wheel support/ ffb, it had VR support. it may have been lacking in the physics department but it had a lot of other realistic/ sim aspects going for it. i personally am insulted he put pc2 in the same tier as a forza game, lol. but thats okay, im sure he knows what he is talking about. also, i love dirt rally 2.0, its literally my favourite game. or was, these days it ties with assetto corsa, with ams2 not far behind. but its not thaaat much of a sim. it just doesnt have much competiton. like, i only ever played the rally cross in pc2 once or twice, but that felt more realistic than the rally cross in dirt rally 2.0 for example. i feel like dirt rally 2.0 tries to capture the feeling of driving a rally car, slightly more than the realism. plus it has famously got bad tarmac physics, and despite what people say, it is quite forgiving. i think (apart from tarmac, and rwd) they nailed the rally sim genre with that game. its sim, but not too sim to lose the thrill of driving a rally car. wreckfest in the same tier as pc2? holy damn, lol. he really is trying to trigger us. i hate wreckfest... :) so if he is putting beam ng at the top because technically it is a simulator. a crash simulator. a car simulator. not a racing simulator. why does pc2 not go higher, its not a good racing simulator either, but it is a good weather simulator, a good racing career simulator etc ;)
I played every game from here and I need to say, that the ac and pc2 feel completely different to be honest. Understeer on pc2 is incredibly high to the point when it's sometimes not enjoyable to drive. Weather system is nice, not incredible tho. And carrer is ok. Talking about dirt however, it's not a sim, just like you said. Putting it where it is was the best option. RBR is the only real rally sim on the market
If you haven't give Circuit Superstars ago, it's similar to Art of Rally but with Track Racing and a fixed pov like a sim version of Micro Machines. It has loads of different classes from Vintage F1 to Trucks. It's great fun and really addictive.
15:56 I've never played iRacing so I didn't know it locks you to the cockpit view, but I whole-heartedly agree with this philosophy. A SIMULATION should be exactly that, real life drivers can't drive from T-cam so neither should sim racers.
If you haven't played iracing, I'd say it's probably best not to start lol. I absolutely love iracing, the competition, the way the cars feel, HOWEVER!!!!!!! I had no idea how much money I was gonna have to spend on it. Not only is it subscription based, but if you want to run a complete series you need to buy the cars and tracks to do so, I dropped $48 this morning on 4 tracks to compete in the series I run.. FML
The Vee in AMS2 is much better than iRacing and the Brazilian Stockcar at least on the same level. GTE/GT3 feels great in rF2 only for me, but AMS2 has the best karts in sim-racing. Where was Kartkraft btw?
Having Project Cars 2 in the same category as Forza Motorsport 7 and Wreckfest is insane. As a person who's played every game on this list other than Mariokart and Nascar, having PC2 in anything less than Simulator-ish is not doing it justice. And you already have AMS2 up there which is literally running on the same proprietary physics engine that was originally built for PC2.
As a fellow sim racer, I urge you to play LFS.....also, its still obtainable and being developed on....and has great VR support...could be on this list;) completely agree with your tier list by the way...great stuff
you knew that was going to be controversial and it was. Gran Turismo 7 is a car collection game and I agree with the part you put it for that reason. However I feel the the esports section is a whole other game having really competitive lobbies which for that I would out in pure simulator. With those things combined, IT SHOULD GO IN SIMULATOR-ISH
Haven't played all of these but I pretty much agree with the positions of those that I have. I still long for a modern true rally simulation, I really enjoy both DR2.0 and WRC10 but apart from the various physics issues one of the biggest things I don't like about them is they are way too forgiving in terms of crash damage, which is something Richard Burns Rally nailed. I know on hardcore damage mode it is possible to totally wreck your car in DR2.0 but most of the time what happens even on that setting is you hit a tree at 140mph and now your radiator is broken and you have a puncture. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've actually retired from a rally completely because the car was undrivable, which given how terrible my driving is shouldn't be the case.
Jimmy. I can't tell you how happy I am for you that you can add "real life racer" to your ethos. Keep making it happen, you seem like such a down to earth guy
PC2 had a weird update right before the release of PC3, like literally a month before. idk if you've played it sense, but at least on the GT3s and Formula Renault, the made the tyres better. Not 100% fixed, but for a while, there were a lot of people online. not just because PC3's failure, as it wasn't out yet, but it was actually fun to drive and killing your tyres was fast at first, but only for a lap. The overheating was a big improvement. I still think it's middle of the road as well, but only just barely. I also haven't played it in 2 years but you know
Here I was, getting geared up to give you a complete roasting, and you saw the light at the eleventh hour and put Pyongyang Racer in its rightful place. Spot on tier list, Jimmer.
You should do a tier list of pre-2000s simulators, such as all the Sierra/Papyrus (Nascar series, IndyCar series, GPL) and Crammond's Grand Prix series.
As a sim racer that rejoined the hobby playing Pcars 2, my idea of the ultimate simulator would be Pcars 2 with iRacing competition system and R3E sound.
What I understood by the tiers: Pure Simulation: Why are you playing this with a controller? Simulator-ish: Better on wheel, but it isn't a total torture to play on controller Middle of the road: Fun enough to play with controller, "Real" enough to play with a wheel, best of both worlds. Arcade-ish: Better on controller, but it isn't a total torture to play with wheel Full Arcade: Why are you playing this with a wheel? Exception: Beam NG
Bang on, agree with everything bar AMS2 (in my opinion of course) - i think it's come leaps and bounds with the latest updates and has basically replaced AC as my VR racing addiction. Def worth another go if you haven't played recently. It's hard to get more consistent AI opponents in any other sim right now, handy for those that don't race online much!
I've been waiting for a while for someone to explain precisely what is "wrong" with the physics in PC2. I'm not certain I completely agree with your categorization of it but I respect the fact that you have far more experience in both real life racing and a whole lot more simulators than I do! I recently got AMS2, and I'm probably going to be moving completely away from PC2 as a result now, as I also want to play more ACC, and I have a custom ATCC championship in AC that I want to focus on as well
He says it in the video, everything understears it makes no sense how cars behave in that game. If you have PC2 and assetto corsa, is easy to see that there is a world of difference between car behaviours. But I don't get what's the problem, this sim pride. Being in the middle of the list it means an awesome entry for everyone and an awesome game for people that just want to drive and feel part of the full sim experience. Full sims doesn't have that straight forward fun and also require you to jave a lot of time to spare till you can enjoy good driving
@@umbium My post was actually acknowledging his explanation (which was better than everything I've heard before which is the equivalent of "PC2 sucks, AC is the best") FWIW, I don't really play PC2 anymore (I've moved to AMS2 instead), but I also play AC, ACC, and RF2 - have put plenty of time into all these sims and out of all of them I would actually have to say I found AC the most problematic when it comes to handling, the sense of speed doesn't seem to match what you're seeing and how the car behaves. In any case, I can swap seamlessly between any of the above sims and I don't feel like I need to particularly change my driving style all that much outside of when you're driving different cars.
i think PC2 should be higher, and AMS2 is everything PC2 wasnt. yes, both have failings so in my view AMS2 is sim, and PC2 is almost sim (slightly higher than sim-ish)
I've tried to like that game but the FFB was so broken (or inconsistent?) that I couldn't rate it a more realistic driving experience than GT7. It felt glitchy as heck, at least on consoles.
Bang on Jimmy, I fully agree with your list. For me, Automobilista 2 and Project Cars suffer more or less from the same physics quirk. And the original Assetto Corsa, I also always thought that the way the road car tires feel here are just bang on, Racing tires and slicks maybe not so much, but normal road cars are sweet!
Real comment now that I've watched. AMS2 had a huge update like two or three weeks ago. Physics, AI twerks, graphics optimizations - my potato VR rig can run 24 AI cars all drawn with medium lag as a test for shits & giggles(compared to 9 max in AC or 11 with 6 drawn at once in RF2 for rig reference). Give it another go when if you ever get a bored minute man. Jet Fuel Gelato, if you were wondering what I was smoking. Cheers all.
agree with your list but I still love AMS2 especially for VR racing i think AMS2 is pure heaven to race in vr the sense of speed and the detail you get is actually incredible I can't get that from any other sim
about Wreckfest : it's all about difficulty settings, it can be very arcadey as it can be absolutely unforgiving. Like in "normal" damage mode you can get rekt a few times and still continue the race, then you have "realism" and "intense" damage settings where one hard landing with suspensions too hard will fuck you up for good.
So yeah a couple of sims that were left out (purely by mistake i'll add)
R3E - Pure sim. It looked pretty dated by today's standard, but this is an awesome sim for those who aren't interested in driving GT3s at Spa over and over again (Tho you can do that if you want). It also has the Group 5 cars which are probably the most difficult/rewarding cars available to drive in any sim
LFS - I've honestly not played enough of this to give a proper opinion (my sim racing 'career' started with rF1) I'd love to hear your thoughts tho.
GTR 2 - At the time i'd label it as a pure sim, but given advances this game sorta falls into the Sim-ish catagory. Still an amazing game and definitely worth the effort of booting up every now and then.
GPL - I've never got this game working correctly so I can't comment. Ask GPLaps!
What about rFactor 1?
As a sim drifter/racer and real life drifter/racer also. I would degrade AC to simlatourish, it needs the ACC physics at least. But from what i heard and search also looked around i would but LFS on above Pure Simulator. I could say it's a physics book copied to an app that have car's in it. Also comes R3E after it but also needs few modifications. For my opinion i don't care much about sounds and graphics i care more about driving so that's my opinion and those are facts.
@@LibLanguageUK 1:18
LfS is a classic trust me you will be amazed by the physics that old game has 100% recommendable also rfactor where almost all mod maps where born
GPL should be in the GOAT category! 24 years old and still going strong! We have some guys that can help you have it up and running in no time.
iRacing is also the only sim that simulates how expensive motor racing is.
It's like DCS but they removed one wing
I don’t understand how this comment only has 24 likes😂😂😂😂😂
Best comment
Dcs is free
@WadeLofton ohhhh boy...
"Sim racer and occasional real life racer" My brother in Christ you won a Britcar championship, you're a seasoned racing driver
Surprised he didn't include b-footage of his budding trophy collection
Absolutely right
Jimmer doin a humble
Totally agree, put some respect on your name jimmer :)
Seasoned indeed - some salt and a lot of spice :D
Just because it's a common trend doesn't mean it's horrible, I find tier lists hilarious when the person doing the list is engaging and has some spicy takes lol
Yep
Are there any good simulators for people withougt a steering wheel?
Cigarettes fell into this trap
@@turtlepowa What do you want to simulate? You can't really do realistic racing without a steering wheel, but there are other options. I'm tempted to say the most serious racing game that actually works well is Trackmania, the skill ceiling is massive and it's perfectly viable with a keyboard. For other types of games, I do like Snowrunner a lot.
It's boring only when you see a lot of people doing just because of the trend with an aleatory theme witch is not the case
Happy to see Pyongyang Racing finally get the credit it deserves as the greatest racing sim of all time! 😁
Its only problem is that I can only finish second to this Kimi Jung Il guy.
Well that only means it's 1000% more realistic than real life, as our dear leader is the greatest athlete in the history of the world.
@@vitreo1363 Kim is the greatest Teletubby of them all, and such an all round nice guy. A finely honed athlete, master of diplomacy and a champion of free speech... surely a candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize? He could share it with that other paragon of virtue, Vladimir Putin. ☠️💩
Sorry to be that guy, but Kim Jong Il died years ago. The silly fat guy they have now is Kim Jong Un.
It is once rumored that the great Jeddah_Racing honed his skills at Pyongyang Racer
What was great about PC2 was that it made Sim racing accessible to a whole load of people that never would have thought about buying a PC & a Wheel to get into it proper. I made a load of exotic, historic, rare cars & circuits available off the shelf to console users. For that it holds a special place for me & many of my friends.
I agree 100%. We had an Xbox league in Denmark with about 16 people in PC2 and that period was what really got me into simracing. Now i got a pc, direct drive, simrig etc.
Whilst PC2 certainly had some impact at the time, I really don't think it holds a candle to the absolute GOAT, Pyongyang Racer
PC2 is how I really got into sim racing as well! Lots of great memories learning the ropes and racing online. But now, after getting a taste of the higher level stuff, PC2 feels really iffy.
@@JubbLaRacing The perfect opposite for me. I don't know why but I never managed to get a feel in my wheel in assetto corsa where I could (after getting the custom FFB files) in PC2. Assetto's settings always felt numb and heavy so it stayed unplayed during my PC2 time.
I think I sould try again now and fight to find a setting that feels right with it.
@@ThePEagle I should probably give PC2 one more try since Assetto Corsa keeps forgetting my binds and my new shifter has never worked in this game 😭
I love that there are great games in every category. If I don't feel like getting sweaty af in Mario Kart, I can always sit back and relax with some Assetto Corsa
Haha! True 😄
Id swap dirt rally 2 and project cars 2 , Vice versa. And give snow runner one position higher on sim scale.
I worked on the original _Need For Speed_ PS1 and it is amazing to see the progress of racing games. We ran our physics at 100 Hz with rendering at 30 Hz. Some of the racing games are running their tire sims at 600+ Hz today!
I think Beamng is at 2kHz. Not sure if it's tire physics or everything.
@@harzer99 nodes/beams are definitely simulated at 2kHz, i know that for sure.
@@harzer99 no shit my pc wants to dien whenever i spawn traffic
@@kjp-sy8uf can confirm, i used to play it on a Dell laptop back in 2015, it'll melt your shit if you aren't careful
salute to you for working on such a great game!
Mario Kart is my all time favorite sim, how dare you put it at the bottom.
It has real cars like Mercedeses.
@@endgamerplays ikr
i play it with my fanatec setup
Now I want jimmy to do a 100% force feedback challenge in mario kart lol
Mario Kart doesn't have Nurburgring, Imola, Silverstone and not even Spa Francorchamps. Mario Kart doesn't support Heusinkveld pedals either. Rubbish!
Raceroom is also a good sim with the best sounds imo
Def a pure simulator and the sound engine is amazing but I wished the game engine could support night and rain
Oh I completely forgot about that game. The sounds of it were brutal though, I loved it. Guess I have to play it again.
Can't wait to see Jimmy refer to himself as occasional real life racer after winning Le Mans or something like that
Right?! I would give my eye tooth to do the racing our friend Jimmy has done! Good post.
praga cup
Becomes a nine time F1 Champion. "Yeah I race in real life occassionally"
@@marcusmiller8267I would give both my eye teeth
Isn't it cool tho how atleast 20 of these games are worth spending time in/are fun to play?
we're spoiled these days!
And mostly very cheap at this point. Just got Dirt Rally 2.0 with all DLC for $10
@@hacob2004 you can get AC and all of the DLC cars for like 8 bucks. Mine is console so it’s not the best but still unbeatable value
@@gabehowe2778 then you see iRacing...
@@superluismigueL100 which is worth it, far cheaper than when I was doing golfing, and at that level of intensity its more of a hobby on its own rather than being lumped in with gaming
Oh, yes we are, and many of us keep asking for more. I honestly feel bad for devs because many of them put in all the work and get shit on for it anyways
LOVELY touch with the Pyongyang Racer mention….I mean, how can you do this list without mentioning the GOAT??
I think arcade is really important and valuable part of the racing genre
I agree, I think that the tier list should have been split between arcade and sim.
Arcade games is what got must of us into motorsport and cars in general, let's be real here. I still remember playing NFSU2 and getting excited about Fast and Furious movies as a teen and I am still nostalgic about old racing games. Playing with a proper steering wheel was a thing you did in arcades if you were lucky, nowadays it's a lot more accessable and you don't need a masters degree to make it work on your home system.
@@imbackforgood Doesn't that miss the point of the video completely?
@@hileutewie nfsu2 and colin mcrae rally were the 2 games that started my love for cars and i was like 5 or 6 years old when playing those games when they came out...and after that the best one was deffinetly nfsc and fast and furious franchise especially tokyo drift which is my favourite
Many grew up with Daytona and don't forget Outrun
So my takeaway from this, as a relative newcomer to sim-racing (and only plays console atm), is that I gravitate towards games that are somewhere in between pure simulators and arcade-y racing games, as I mainly go for Project Cars 2, F1 22 (and F1 2019 for classic cars), and Gran Turismo 7, while occasionally dabbling in the Assetto Corsa series.
Also not ashamed to say that you, Jimmy, are the guy that got me into sim-racing. Your videos are fun and informative and you seem to be a really nice guy in every one of them.
The more you play Wreckfest, the more arcadey it starts to feel.
At first, it does feel pretty decent, but as time passes and you figure out how to actually drive fast, you notice just how weird the physics are.
After 1600 hours, i've figured out nothing that you'd do in a sim is going to make you fast there :P
And it's a hell of a lot more fun than anything higher up the list.
What sucks about it atm (on PS4 at least) is that people turn off all the fun stuff. You can't troll or get trolled in it anymore :( That was the reason I played it, to see how good I could do before a combine harvester intentionally going the wrong way smashed me into a pink bus with a sharkfin on it or something. Every stupid scenario I survived made me ecstatic, and every one I didn't made me laugh.
@@Randomii666 Poop Sock's Shlt show is where its at!!!
@@HeavenhoundGiuseppe Not Beamng or modded Assetto Corsa, at least for me.
yea it was fun for the wrecking ngl, but at some point you realize that you can get away by just holding down the gas. im no sim racer, but the "go full speed at all times" type of games dont rub me the right way either
After All these years Assetto Corsa Still Triumphs at the top
Only because of mods. As far as the actual racing goes, it’s one of the worst of the modern sims.
@@Logan912 true
I own all his "sim tier" games and yes Assetto Corsa is the best and most beautiful of them all. Even tops Iracing
rFactor2 has been around longer and is still alive and kicking a*se too . Love them both ❤
Assetto Corsa is easily at the top still, it is not that hard to get running unlike other sims, it still looks good and the mods.. oh baby
"Occasional real life racing driver" Inaugural Praga Cup Champion Jimmy Broadbent
Would’ve love to seen Live For Speed in this list, even if it’s 20 years old, intoday’s world it’s handling and tyre physics are still debatable to be the best.
LFS would fit in the GOAT category but in a good way. The tyre physics is still unmatched.
Came for this comment right here, I've played, asseto, beamNG, project cars, dirt rallies, and always and always come back to live for speed.... I'm so stunned how is this game so much ignored by the youtubers....
@@DePistolero Same bro, nothing like the great LFS
I felt a little sad
LFS has been in the shadows for well over a decade. And i hope it stays like that. The community is pretty damn pure when compared to the rest. Yeah, theres some shitty brasil drivers here and there but its so clean vast majority of the time and I just love everyone that holds it close to them. It's special in so many ways and is the BEST recipe for turning yourself into a weapon on four wheels.
LFS oh man, that brings memories. Definitely a pure sim, that one.
Current BeamNG driving is definitely simulator worthy now. especially their changes!
Enjoy witness protection mate. 😉👍🏼
WITNES PROTECTION FOR WHAT!
@@Progamer-pu8dv "Doesn't look like any WitSec program I've ever heard of"
😂
I think that SMS would be very happy with "middle of the road". Accessibility was exactly its strength. Hugh amount of content, engaging enough to think about the ideas behind racing (even if some of them don't quite work right). It was exactly how I got in to sim racing. Most importantly "sim vs arcade" is independent of "enjoyable vs not enjoyable"
Which one is SMS?
SMS is not on the list he's talking about if it were on the list
@@babis8142 SMS is Slightly Mad Studios, the makers of the Project Cars games.
@@babis8142 Devs for PC2
Yeah and those games are very important, because they are the wa, of entry for new players.
Just look at the Combat Flight Sim community, before War Thunder and IL-2 Great Battles they had massive problems getting new players in.
And thanks to WT people got into this starting with arcade then "realistic" and then "Sim Battles" making the progression from pure arcade to Arcade-like ( realistic Battles), and then to middle of the road ("Simulator Battles ").
And when they got bored of that they wen to IL-2 Great Battles (Simulator-ish) ad stayed there for a while.
After that some went on to the pure Simulator tier where there are DCS World, Il-2 Cliffs of Dover and Falcon BMS.
Now most of us hate WT for how much of a Cashgrab it has become, being actually more expensive than DCS, and how much of it's potential it has squandered.
But at least it has brought all those new players to the community and has revitalized the genre.
PC2 got me into serious sim racing where GT Sport lacked, it really is a gateway game to stuff like iRacing ACC etc
Putting it in the same tier as Wreckfest is WILD. It should be sim-ish. Wreckfest is just damage, that’s it. Everything else is barely realistic at best.
People just seem to hate on pcars 2. Maybe they came from PC background.
If pc2 wasn’t on console I wouldn’t have continued with sim-racing
@@dylanzrim3635 Plus, I have never had more fun in any racing game than doing a multi class endurance race with firends in random weather. PC2 is just so much more fun that other sims ive tried.
@@ImKairyu pc2 was my gateway drug. I’m now addicted to AC and DR 2.0 lol
Same here. I would definitely put it above Forza Motorsport though. At least "simulator-ish", no doubt
Got AMS because of this channel, ended up getting AMS2 after enjoying AMS. I love the way 2's tracks look and love the day/night and weather. Probably my favorite sim, and all because you recommended the first one. The only other game I play as much as automobilista 2 is ACC. Reiza does an excellent job with project cars' engine. And really when it comes down do it when I am playing other games with the same tracks as AMS2 I prefer the AMS2 track. I won't say criticism of AMS2 isn't valid, or whatever, but what Reiza is doing is perfect for me, and not many games let you race f1 2022 cars against superKarts and copa trucks at silverstone while it is pouring rain.
Have you played Assetto Corsa?
@@e2rqey I want Assetto Corsa so badly but I’m on Xbox series X
@@e2rqey enjoying both games is valid
@@RukaGoldheart never said it wasn't
@@e2rqey on vanilla AC that’s not possible cuz there’s no rain
But with a ton of mods yeah you can do that
GT7 is the only game on the list that keeps me coming back. I also think putting it middle of the road is a good choice. It really is flexible enough that you can get it to sim-ish if you tweak the settings and use a proper sim rig or get it arcade-ish if you just want to turn on all the assists and play on the couch with a controller.
"Middle of the road" is I think also exactly what games like Forza and Gran Turismo are vying for; the range and flexibility to turn assists off with a force feedback wheel / pedals setup and race in leagues where you have to select and tune your cars correctly for the best balance of pace versus fuel burn and tyre wear, but also games where you can put on some of the driver assists and plug in your favourite controller and still have a good time doing laps of whatever circuit in whatever car. They're about the most "sim" a lot of more casual racing fans are going to want to play (speaking from personal experience on this one), and cover a broad enough range those drivers can happily progress their skills a lot with those games, but also arcade-y enough to always be approachable mainstream and console-playable titles maximizing the ability for more people to get into "sim" racing in the first place.
People who know they want to do sim racing but want to ease themselves in, people who know they don't want to do true sim racing but want something approaching the "sim experience", and people who don't really care that much about sim vs arcade and just want good mainstream racing titles to enjoy all happily playing through the singleplayer experience and joining online lobbies together.
I've never been more torn about a game then GT7... I don't have time to play online and that's where it really shines... Collecting cars is great and racing is fun... I just wish it offered a more realistic career mode with qualifying rounds and a schedule... Gets boring starting in last place every race
I think that the driving experience in GT 7 warrants it's inclusion as a Sim. @@TehFrenchy29
@@TehFrenchy29 Totally agree. I love Gran Tursimo for what it's there for. It's initial position is definitely to keep accessibility for a wider range of people. Full sims (Cars/Planes/Especially Helicopters) simply are not accessible to the majority. I also adore Beamng and AMS 1 but I can absolutely understand how people would shy away from full-on sims due to difficulty. Although in reality I don't think it's only difficult to drive the cars but difficult to drive without feeling g-forces through a screen and applying driving logic only through sight on a screen no matter what sim rig you may have. For an example, my wife doesn't know how to drive or drive a car at all and doesn't care to know. To stress how bad she is, she has to ask if the gas pedal is always the right one..... When she tries AC she literally can't keep the car straight or go through a turn smoothly at all. When I take her karting, although she's not the fastest, she's definitely MUCH better behind the wheel of a kart than a screen. She still made some miscalculations but her awareness was far above what I thought it would be and after about 5-10 minutes she could consistently go around the track relatively smoothly.
Nice list man. What about RaceRoom?
Kinda strange isnt it?
Well I guess it can’t really find its way on the list next to the titles like Ignition and Nfs Heat
the disrespect, it's one of the best
I was hoping RaceRoom's predecessor Race07 would be included.
Pure simulator
@@WeddingVegetablesoooooo race07 i have race the wtcc game and it is amazing
I think the list is almost completely spot on though I would put Automobilista 2 in the Pure Simulator section. I think you are right that after all of these years, Assetto Corsa is still a beast in the pure simulation space. It is a shame they gave up development on it but thank you modders for keeping it alive! BeamNG continues to surprise me which is a good thing.
Ams2 is based on pcars2 physics engine and it has major flaws. You can't feel understeer or any loss of lateral grip. Also, if you yank the wheel to full lock while on throttle in an RWD car, it doesn't spin out. It goes straight. It doesn't feel right
You can create oversteer situations that defy the laws of physics. Assetto Corsa has less detail in the feedback, but the physics is right
@@akosabraham7914 You can absolutely feel understeer and loss of lateral grip along with more stuff.
Dont know what car you was driving that you dont spin or how you was doing, but I still to see a car at AMS2 that will not spin under braking or use of throttle if you do it wrong.
@@IronwillNeo I swear 99% of the people that criticizes AMS 2 only played the beta and never touched the game again
it received some massive improvements, specially in the relatively recent 1.4 update, and Jimmy is yet to try that update.
@@akosabraham7914 Have you actually tried the sim, or are you just parroting 2 years old wisdoms, man?
To be fair, this is the man I want doing the sim tier list
PC2 on same level as Wreckfest or Forza 7 is plain wrong though
Non of these are true sims till you can fight the person who wrecked you in VR
My list would be really similar. GT7 probably pop that up to simulator-ish though.
Yeah wtf GT deserves better than this ranking...
That’s what I was thinking. I mean they do have GT academy and have made gt7 gamers into real racers lol
AMS2 is where I end up 95% of the time now. To be honest, I will never have the experience of what a real race car feels like at the limit, so I can't make good judgements on what is "real" sim or not. I enjoy AMS2 for what it is, and that's good enough for me.
Automobilista 2 is actually the best sim now after 1.4 and it's as much a sim as AC/ACC/RF2/iRacing are. I think that it's even more sim then AC in general (most played stuff online in AC is driving or drifting in some traffic in Japan; is that sim? It doesn't feel sim to me AT ALL). No need to see Jimmy's subjective list as objective, it's just his opinion and he's completely wrong with Automobilista 2 in my opinion.
@@turbohenk702 Preach
@@turbohenk702 I boot up AMS2 every other week or so for a bit of casual fun and unfortunately... There are still some things that just feel a bit "off" in AMS2, and that's with the good cars. Some cars are just way off. Supposedly a recent update has helped things, but when I tried the ARC and V8 supercar earlier this year they were horrific. The lower tier GT cars like the Ginettas also seem very neglected physics-wise. I tend to stick with the GT3s and GTEs because every time I tested out another car category I was left disappointed. Most of the people who I've seen heap praise on AMS2 seem to live in open wheelers, so maybe it's stronger there? I'm not an open wheeler guy so I couldn't say.
I do race in real life also (nowhere near Jimmy's level of course), and I'd say AMS2 is good but not quite top tier sim yet IMO. I agree with Jimmy's placement.
after doing ACC leagues and iracing, i gave all those up and now i just mostly do ams2, good cars, good tracks.. and great vr. i hated the ffb in the beginning, but it is now my favorite of the lot and the physics have gotten to be absolutely spot on.
I boot up AMS2 more than anything else these days. While its certainly not perfect I love the content it provides, especially the Brazilian Stock Car Series. Its has stuff that is different from the mainstream.
I suddenly recalled that many years ago I worked on improvements of realistic specifications and parameters for rFactor1 mod about Group B bolides and tyre modelling for it ( I was just pissed off about all unrealistic aspects and just wanted to run for myself), but didn't finished and forgot about it on my old pc. Damn, after this Jimmy's video I caught myself thinking about that with some wishes to find and continue that "mini-project" ..
Agreed! I love seeing Beamng in the top tier, definitely my number 1 of all and improves with every update. Few tweaks for me is I'd ALMOST bump Snowrunner up to simulator-ish, it's unique in what it does even though wheel support isn't great. If you had Dirt 3 on the list, it would deserve a Middle of the Road spot, certainly higher than Dirt 5. I'd might even add My Summer Car to Middle of the Road MAYBE simulator-ish.
Fantastic list. I agree with 99% of your choices. GT7 being the one I thought should be at least one tier up. I LOVE me some racing games. Gots me a wheel and all and truly makes the difference.
It first needs manual rolling starts and manual control in pitstops (at least optional) then we can talk about it again
@@leruty that isn't what determines simulator!... Simulator is how accurate it is to real racing, and coming from a guy been lucky enough to actually go race I can say it comes much closer than other's on the list definitely, should be 1 notch up...
I fully agree, I don’t think middle of the road is fair but I don’t think it’s a hardcore sim. So one up is perfectly fair.
Agreed. The driving physics of gt3 and gt4 cars is accurate enough that I was able to pretty seamlessly go between ACC and GT7 without much adaptation. Gt7 just simplifies things a lot online by removing car/tire setting adjustments and lacks a bit of force feedback. Overall though, feels pretty similar to race on either.
GT7 never was in that simulator-ish, and will never be since it's not what they want.
They wand a racing game that takes the most fun of the sims racing, and can be played with controler by everyone. This means having sone concessions to make it fun and understandable for most.
IMO they should keep going down that road wich is the way to open this genre to more people
Mario Kart 8 is pure sim, being hit by a blue shell with an angry Luigi giving you the stare down on his way by while using a magic mushroom is exactly like the real thing
Should have mentioned Raceroom Experience
@@pjludda4323 about $3000?
Gtr2 with the NAP mod, blasting through spa with an mc12 GT1 is still one of the most satisfying thing I've ever tried. I'm surprised you didn't put it on the list
Where I can get this mod?
@@felipetartas5434 I actually don't know anymore, here in italy i downloaded it from a website called "drivingitalia", but i think you can still get it from some sim racing forum or similar
The thing I love about GT7 is the Dualsense support. Being able to tell grip from the feel of the pedals isn't something you get in real cars but it's a really good replacement for butt feel. For me at least, I'm faster than with a force feedback wheel.(I don't own a wheel so it's at least partially lack of practice)
Also Wreckfest is the BEST Dualsense game on PS5
Agree. Also, Ride 4 has really good haptics if you like motorcycles.
You're faster because of practice like you said and because you probably don't know how to left foot brake anywhere near as precisely as you can left finger break lol
I don't get the point of even commenting this if you don't have a wheel. Who cares about controller vibration dude. Get a wheel or go drive a real car/bike.
@@Cymanytb I disagree - he makes a good point. For the (many) people who either can't afford, don't have the space for or plain and simple don't want a wheel... the haptic feedback is fantastic on GT7. I've put my wheel away and play GT7 on pad as the haptics give such good feedback you know what's going on.
@@BlayneyPS Dumbass thing to say and proves to me that you don't have a wheel.
I do notice just how much assistance you get in dirt rally with a wheel, even with the assistance as turned off as possible, makes it more difficult in my opinion.
I feel the same. Rbr should be more difficult, but since the control is unfiltered it's much easier.
Also in dirt rally the cars slide worse than if you would drive on ice.
Sim vs. arcade is just one dimension out of many. Nice video ftm.
Bro, Jimmer makes life worth living
Surprised that Live For Speed was not included in the list. Interested to hear in which category Jimmer and others would put it in? If you reply, please base the rating on your experience.
I played Live for speed as a kid before i knew it was a sim. I just knew it was the most realistic racing game i could find. Playing on keyboard, I learned all about tuning, tire wear, and how to burn through a clutch lol. I remember LFS lets you see all the forces acting on each tire and that was so useful for figuring out oversteer/understeer as well as brake bias. I still wish there was a view like that in all the other sims but i figured its kind of cheating lol. But if u havent seen it coming, it’s a full simulator for me lol.
I opened comments to search for "live for speed" because I played (and will continue to play) it the most of anything on PC. Category: pure sim.
Still playing LFS in a daily basis just because I have some sort of connection to it, I say it's definitely nothing less than a pure simulator. And plus, here is an interesting thing: LFS is one of the least problematic sims ever. It's literally plug and play on every occasion, any spec pc, any racing equipment, etc. If you just want to do some hotlaps or hang out with friends online in servers, it's special. And the physics and the way the car works feels so direct and so "real-time" and dynamic to me.
I think he went for the most actual ones.
It lacks RBR rally, Toca race driver 3, Live for Speed, and some other classic driving games people love from other decaded.
AMS 1 absolutely blew my mind, when I first played it. The handling is stunning and also the force feedback is absolutely on point.
The driving in BeamNG ist getting better with every update in my opinion and it can be taken seriously nowadays.
Project Cars 2. Where it all began for me. A missionary at my church left his PS4 for the kids there, and after the service my brother and I would do countless laps. I really wish i could get this game for PC now.
Side note: Even though Forza Horizon is aimed to be arcadish, it shares the same physics model as Forza Motorsport. Both Forza's and GT7 I think deserve a single bump upward. Solid List!
Raceroom? I would have put AMS2 where you put it up to the 1.4 release. Since then I've been really enjoying it.
Would love to know if he's played v1.4 (maybe he has, I don't know)
@@JBVXR Given the rigor of his other AMS2 videos, it's doubtful. He admitted in this video that he hasn't spent much time in it.
No Richard burns rally and no Raceroom , terrible list jimmer ! 😂😂
Project Cars 2 was a massive step from the original. I think it’s borderline between middle of the road and simulator-ish…
Yeah. Tge weather simulation us actually top tier. Even snow is available
it's more in depth than forza 7 no matter what he thinks. forza doesnt have fuel consumption, working gauges, etc so that if of itself puts it on top lol
@@michaelspyker8390 forza doesnt even have the top speed and corner speeds right in the mclaren mercedes GT3. Jan Seyffarth found so many issues in Forza 7, its embarassing.
Putting PC2 on same level as forza and wreckfest is so unbelievable wrong by him, wow. I didnt expect that from Jimmy :x
I thought Project Cars 2 had pretty awful physics. Doesn’t matter how much depth and variety they have if they completely miss on the fundamentals. In that respect, I’d play GT7 and Forza 7 every time over it. I can confidently play Assetto Corsa even with a controller because the physics are so intuitive. Project Cars 2 was consistently baffling and made no sense.
@@De-M-oN they can all be in the same category and PC2 can still be the most realistic out of the 3.
Since you are a real racer, that lends credibility to the list. I don't see Lando or Max doing this (I can't believe they wouldn't have the time or anything). Of the ones I've played, I like your ratings. I think I would have given AMS2 a "pure simulator" rating, but I've never raced a real car. Thanks for the video!
No Live For Speed? 😮
I’d put that in Full Simulator. Love that game.
Art of Rally is a wonderful game. Once you start getting the flow going... It's amazing.
With Horizon and Need For Speed in the list I wished for the original TDU Test Drive Unlimited to have made it on the list, too ...but interesting video anyway.
TDU was one of the GOATs, but the car handling was rubbish. And the "blocky" roads were very annoying. Still a great experience though.
Haha yes TDU was nice 😀
TDU always be one of the best racing game of all time for me.
God I loved TDU. SO SO MUCH. I wish forza horizon 5 had simulator mode and VR and full wheel and pedal support. I still remember just cruising around for hours in “simulator mode“ aka floaty cars in TDU and just enjoying it so much. I hope the new TDU is gonna be a banger!
God I loved TDU. SO SO MUCH. I wish forza horizon 5 had simulator mode and VR and full wheel and pedal support. I still remember just cruising around for hours in “simulator mode“ aka floaty cars in TDU and just enjoying it so much. I hope the new TDU is gonna be a banger!
Missing Live for speed and RBR in the full sim tier. The rest is as I'd put it basically, the only difference is I'd pop GT7 into simulator-ish.
16:16 is what you came for
Automobilista 1 needs sooooo much more respect, and I'm really happy to see you give it some :)
ams2 has improved a lot recently. i would put it on pure-sim
It is hard to feel the breaks lock in AMS2 and production cars are so wobbly.
Maybe a 3rd of the cars are actually decent now, even excellent. The rest are ruining the sim for many people. The vintage cars are just painful.
@@FPV_sk8 I think the PC2 sim rating depends on a lot which car and which track you drive, too. If uneven quality results in no-sim, then the rating was correct. If you consider best cars on best tracks, PC2 is at least simulator-ish. If you take the worst cars on worst tracks, it's arcade-ish.
Raceroom, LFS, GTR2
'physics based' is almost like 'based on a true story'
It is now 2024. I agree with where you placed all those games and how you categorized them. You may want to look at AMS2 again with their newest patch they did. Others say AMS2 is much better experience now. RF2 also updated and added better online ratings.
We need a part 2, to add in the titles you missed! GTR2, Race07, Live for Speed, RBR, KartKraft, GT Legends, Ride 4, Power and Glory, etc.
GT Legends .... my absolute favorite ... first love.
No matter if it is a simulator or arcade game. The racing is real in all of them!
wow, i could barely tell the difference between project cars 2 and assetto corsa back when i first got into sim racing, i have not played pc2 in years so i cant judge it. but i wouldve definitely thought it would have been classed as 'simulator-ish' due to the physics, the weather, the pitting etc. 'middle of the road' does seem a bit unfair on it. again, i have not played it recently and it may be way more arcade than i rememeber.
edit: plus for its time it had decent wheel support/ ffb, it had VR support.
it may have been lacking in the physics department but it had a lot of other realistic/ sim aspects going for it. i personally am insulted he put pc2 in the same tier as a forza game, lol. but thats okay, im sure he knows what he is talking about.
also, i love dirt rally 2.0, its literally my favourite game. or was, these days it ties with assetto corsa, with ams2 not far behind.
but its not thaaat much of a sim. it just doesnt have much competiton. like, i only ever played the rally cross in pc2 once or twice, but that felt more realistic than the rally cross in dirt rally 2.0 for example.
i feel like dirt rally 2.0 tries to capture the feeling of driving a rally car, slightly more than the realism. plus it has famously got bad tarmac physics, and despite what people say, it is quite forgiving. i think (apart from tarmac, and rwd) they nailed the rally sim genre with that game. its sim, but not too sim to lose the thrill of driving a rally car.
wreckfest in the same tier as pc2? holy damn, lol. he really is trying to trigger us. i hate wreckfest... :)
so if he is putting beam ng at the top because technically it is a simulator. a crash simulator. a car simulator. not a racing simulator. why does pc2 not go higher, its not a good racing simulator either, but it is a good weather simulator, a good racing career simulator etc ;)
I played every game from here and I need to say, that the ac and pc2 feel completely different to be honest. Understeer on pc2 is incredibly high to the point when it's sometimes not enjoyable to drive. Weather system is nice, not incredible tho. And carrer is ok. Talking about dirt however, it's not a sim, just like you said. Putting it where it is was the best option. RBR is the only real rally sim on the market
If you haven't give Circuit Superstars ago, it's similar to Art of Rally but with Track Racing and a fixed pov like a sim version of Micro Machines. It has loads of different classes from Vintage F1 to Trucks. It's great fun and really addictive.
Yeah I love Circuit Superstars for some couch entertainment too it's a great game 👍
Beamng's driving is getting fantastic, once they introduce tire thermals it will become the most realistic simulator on this list.
I wish raceroom was on the list, Would have been interesting to see where you placed that
Probably sim ish. It's a decent game to say the least but it lacks the car feel that acc and iracing have.
I love acc
It's 100% sim
15:56 I've never played iRacing so I didn't know it locks you to the cockpit view, but I whole-heartedly agree with this philosophy. A SIMULATION should be exactly that, real life drivers can't drive from T-cam so neither should sim racers.
If you haven't played iracing, I'd say it's probably best not to start lol. I absolutely love iracing, the competition, the way the cars feel, HOWEVER!!!!!!! I had no idea how much money I was gonna have to spend on it. Not only is it subscription based, but if you want to run a complete series you need to buy the cars and tracks to do so, I dropped $48 this morning on 4 tracks to compete in the series I run.. FML
@@flatlandAutoSales The cost is why I haven't even started and probably will not start in the future either.
@@flatlandAutoSales The cost is the reason why I have stayed away from it.
If I were defensive about sims I'd just create a tier list of Jimmy Broadbent's face and put the chin at the top. But I'm not. You're lucky.
I'd move GT7 and AMS2 up one but understand why Jimmy did what he did. I wish literally any game allowed you to feel the tyres like RF2 does.
100%
Yah I feel like gt could easily move up if you were only looking at the potential of daily races with like A/A+ lobbies
The Vee in AMS2 is much better than iRacing and the Brazilian Stockcar at least on the same level. GTE/GT3 feels great in rF2 only for me, but AMS2 has the best karts in sim-racing. Where was Kartkraft btw?
GT7 and LFS are the only two sims that give proper tyre feel.
AMS 2 was by far the most unfair
Jimmy didn't even tried the most recent updates that improved the physics by quite a lot in comparison to the beta
Having Project Cars 2 in the same category as Forza Motorsport 7 and Wreckfest is insane. As a person who's played every game on this list other than Mariokart and Nascar, having PC2 in anything less than Simulator-ish is not doing it justice. And you already have AMS2 up there which is literally running on the same proprietary physics engine that was originally built for PC2.
As a fellow sim racer, I urge you to play LFS.....also, its still obtainable and being developed on....and has great VR support...could be on this list;)
completely agree with your tier list by the way...great stuff
LFS?
Bro where is Raceroom? You've raced that a few times.
Raceroom sits in the corner.
you knew that was going to be controversial and it was. Gran Turismo 7 is a car collection game and I agree with the part you put it for that reason. However I feel the the esports section is a whole other game having really competitive lobbies which for that I would out in pure simulator. With those things combined, IT SHOULD GO IN SIMULATOR-ISH
Haven't played all of these but I pretty much agree with the positions of those that I have. I still long for a modern true rally simulation, I really enjoy both DR2.0 and WRC10 but apart from the various physics issues one of the biggest things I don't like about them is they are way too forgiving in terms of crash damage, which is something Richard Burns Rally nailed. I know on hardcore damage mode it is possible to totally wreck your car in DR2.0 but most of the time what happens even on that setting is you hit a tree at 140mph and now your radiator is broken and you have a puncture. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've actually retired from a rally completely because the car was undrivable, which given how terrible my driving is shouldn't be the case.
Jimmy. I can't tell you how happy I am for you that you can add "real life racer" to your ethos. Keep making it happen, you seem like such a down to earth guy
Sad raceroom isn't in the list
PC2 had a weird update right before the release of PC3, like literally a month before. idk if you've played it sense, but at least on the GT3s and Formula Renault, the made the tyres better. Not 100% fixed, but for a while, there were a lot of people online. not just because PC3's failure, as it wasn't out yet, but it was actually fun to drive and killing your tyres was fast at first, but only for a lap. The overheating was a big improvement.
I still think it's middle of the road as well, but only just barely. I also haven't played it in 2 years but you know
Only the most original content on the James Broadbanson channel
Jimmy, you have missed a really important racing sim game - Live for Speed
Here I was, getting geared up to give you a complete roasting, and you saw the light at the eleventh hour and put Pyongyang Racer in its rightful place.
Spot on tier list, Jimmer.
Pc2 definitely deserved sim-ish, still love ya jimmy
You should do a tier list of pre-2000s simulators, such as all the Sierra/Papyrus (Nascar series, IndyCar series, GPL) and Crammond's Grand Prix series.
GPL would be instant GOAT tier
As a sim racer that rejoined the hobby playing Pcars 2, my idea of the ultimate simulator would be Pcars 2 with iRacing competition system and R3E sound.
Agree. And I was on the PC2 team
What I understood by the tiers:
Pure Simulation: Why are you playing this with a controller?
Simulator-ish: Better on wheel, but it isn't a total torture to play on controller
Middle of the road: Fun enough to play with controller, "Real" enough to play with a wheel, best of both worlds.
Arcade-ish: Better on controller, but it isn't a total torture to play with wheel
Full Arcade: Why are you playing this with a wheel?
Exception: Beam NG
Bang on, agree with everything bar AMS2 (in my opinion of course) - i think it's come leaps and bounds with the latest updates and has basically replaced AC as my VR racing addiction. Def worth another go if you haven't played recently. It's hard to get more consistent AI opponents in any other sim right now, handy for those that don't race online much!
I've been waiting for a while for someone to explain precisely what is "wrong" with the physics in PC2. I'm not certain I completely agree with your categorization of it but I respect the fact that you have far more experience in both real life racing and a whole lot more simulators than I do! I recently got AMS2, and I'm probably going to be moving completely away from PC2 as a result now, as I also want to play more ACC, and I have a custom ATCC championship in AC that I want to focus on as well
He says it in the video, everything understears it makes no sense how cars behave in that game.
If you have PC2 and assetto corsa, is easy to see that there is a world of difference between car behaviours.
But I don't get what's the problem, this sim pride. Being in the middle of the list it means an awesome entry for everyone and an awesome game for people that just want to drive and feel part of the full sim experience. Full sims doesn't have that straight forward fun and also require you to jave a lot of time to spare till you can enjoy good driving
@@umbium My post was actually acknowledging his explanation (which was better than everything I've heard before which is the equivalent of "PC2 sucks, AC is the best")
FWIW, I don't really play PC2 anymore (I've moved to AMS2 instead), but I also play AC, ACC, and RF2 - have put plenty of time into all these sims and out of all of them I would actually have to say I found AC the most problematic when it comes to handling, the sense of speed doesn't seem to match what you're seeing and how the car behaves. In any case, I can swap seamlessly between any of the above sims and I don't feel like I need to particularly change my driving style all that much outside of when you're driving different cars.
i think PC2 should be higher, and AMS2 is everything PC2 wasnt. yes, both have failings so in my view AMS2 is sim, and PC2 is almost sim (slightly higher than sim-ish)
Pc2 is a sim, with a bunch of weak spots
The cars in PC2 might not be perfect but the track simulation is really good,
I'd stick it in "Simulation-ish" because of the track evolution
I've tried to like that game but the FFB was so broken (or inconsistent?) that I couldn't rate it a more realistic driving experience than GT7. It felt glitchy as heck, at least on consoles.
It was the absolutely loony AI that drove me away from Project Cars 2.
@@TheChannel1978 I must say, I did a bit of AC last night (well more like 5am) and the fbb did feel very different to pc2
@@captainunderpants200 I mostly did online racing so I didn't worry too much about the AI
"Wirtual where are you my guy?"
The world is small that was amazing lmfao
Richard Burns Rally is the Goat of Rally Sims, you not having it on the list makes this video an instant Joke
Bang on Jimmy, I fully agree with your list. For me, Automobilista 2 and Project Cars suffer more or less from the same physics quirk. And the original Assetto Corsa, I also always thought that the way the road car tires feel here are just bang on, Racing tires and slicks maybe not so much, but normal road cars are sweet!
Finally a tier list we can trust and take to the bank to carve in stone for the new gospel maidens to chant. Cheers Jimmy.
Real comment now that I've watched. AMS2 had a huge update like two or three weeks ago. Physics, AI twerks, graphics optimizations - my potato VR rig can run 24 AI cars all drawn with medium lag as a test for shits & giggles(compared to 9 max in AC or 11 with 6 drawn at once in RF2 for rig reference). Give it another go when if you ever get a bored minute man.
Jet Fuel Gelato, if you were wondering what I was smoking. Cheers all.
@@Rebar77_real he gets annoyed the most by ams2 and we love watching him get less and less annoyed with new updates.
imagine not having Big Rigs on here.
Mario Kart full arcade?
That's the most realistic game ever made.
Have you ever tried driving a kart over a banana peel before Jimmy?
Basically the racing game industry needs more pure-sims and more pure-arcade racing games.
I think pc2 would’ve been in the simulator ish sector. But nonetheless solid list jimmy!
How did you forget RACEROOM RACING EXPERIENCE???????
Is it a good sim ?
Raceroom is missing 👀
agree with your list but I still love AMS2 especially for VR racing i think AMS2 is pure heaven to race in vr the sense of speed and the detail you get is actually incredible I can't get that from any other sim
about Wreckfest : it's all about difficulty settings, it can be very arcadey as it can be absolutely unforgiving. Like in "normal" damage mode you can get rekt a few times and still continue the race, then you have "realism" and "intense" damage settings where one hard landing with suspensions too hard will fuck you up for good.