Hey everyone! Hope you’re enjoying some different content as we drive ever closer to the big TV reviews for 2022. Let me know what you think! Also, I’m taking a big trip to Southern California next week. Any guesses what for?
I assume Vizio’s flying you out first class to Irvine with 5-star accommodations so they can give you the royal tour of their 2022 product lineup in person at corporate HQ.
Does Sony still require acceptance of Google Terms and Services in order to proceed with the function of a person brand new smart TV? It appears there is no denial of terms option that then allows the continued full function of your TV should the agreement not be checked off during set up. Your thoughts please!
Dennis why don't you ever mention HTC... ( Home Theater Computer).It's like they don't exist to you guys ...I get the best of both worlds Smart TV and a computer...windows on my htc blows a half baked TV OS out of the water...You want processor power how about an I7 or I9 ...not that you need that but I7s are cheap these days ....I use my HTC 90 % of the time ..I'm using it now ..I almost never use the lame TV OS. When you talk about gaming or Netflix it's always Xbox or PlayStation....my htc crushes my Xbox and my PlayStation...just adding a cordless keyboard and mouse to your laptop works well for that matter. But nope computers and TV's don't go together as far as you guys are concerned. But hey you guys just keep being fish for the Corp's and me and my friends will just keep watching what we want when we want...in 4k too.
That's what I already do. Half of these "smart" platforms suck anyway. Especially Google tv, which at this point is just a glorified billboard at this point anyway...
Or even better would be for Tv manufacturers to stop cashing in on our data, and start selling display only TVs. I don’t know a single person that uses their smart Tv features. Literally everyone I know uses an external device for their streaming and gaming. LG made almost as much money selling personal viewer data, than they made selling the shitty TVs that stole it. It’s time consumers demand a return to Non-smart TVs.
I really wish we could just buy a panel only, with an external box that contains signal processing and smart features and could be replaced over time. They already do this kind of stuff for Micro LED walls and really high end projection rooms, but it shouldn't be impossible to get it down to consumer high end levels.
You might not realize, but your gripes about Smart TVs also apply to cars. It is easy to see the trajectory that cars will have more and more built-in features and OS standardization. If we don't solve this issue for TVs now, cars will only magnify the issue as you can't just make your car into a 'dumb car'. The security issues are especially concerning in that industry.
Yes you are absolutely correct .Better option would be a dumb tv with detachable tv streaming device, so that even the software outdated we can easily replace the streaming device. Sadly manufacturers are not ready to provide such a good option to consumers.
Congratulations on the transformation from 0:42 to the better color grading seen on this video. All prior videos were really green in hue, so this is a welcome change. No hate. No shade. a genuine compliment on your development as a fellow AV colleague. Good work.
Have seen some of your videos and I like your content bro. It’s great seeing you showing positivity. I think all AV people should come together to help us consumers make good TV choices.
Same here I have 15 years old 50 inch 1080p Sony Bravia plugged in to first gen Apple TV and I find it a better set up than most of my friends with their fancy LG OSs or smart identity stealing androids
Good video. And necessary. Ads on TVs is gross. So is the crazy level of data collection. As long as Apple makes a streaming device, I will have one if for no other reason than being ad-free. But privacy is a huge issue either way. You shouldn’t have to read War and Peace level fine print or be forced into massive data collection to watch the news.
My ideal next TV would be a simple video display device. No speakers, tuner, apps, OS, etc. It would just display the video from whatever source I choose, Apple TV, Roku, STB, etc. and display the video from that source. Audio and input switching would be handled by my AVR. Updates to input devices could be done at my discretion and not dependent on whether my TV manufacturer decides to continue supporting new versions of apps.
I think my Vizio TV was literally bricked from some bad update. Apps do not work as it claims there is no net connection, even though it says it's connected under menu options. Yet my other TV connects fine. Resetting the TV to previous firmware also doesn't work.
That already exists. There's a category of products called "Large Format Displays" or "Big Format Gaming Displays", basically computer monitors that are the size of a TV. I think they're generally quite a bit more expensive than comparable TVs though, being something of a niche product.
My nostalgia when it comes to TVs involves when they were just simple display devices, much like computer monitors. Just some inputs, a few outputs, and a way to switch between inputs and tinker with the image settings. If I were to buy a 'smart TV' today, I'd want to set it up as a 'dumb' TV, and use it solely to display content from a connected PC and consoles. I already got all the streaming services I use on said PC, why would I want to have a less secure, ad-filled and likely slower/glitchier experience on the TV's built-in 'PC' instead? On that note, more analogue inputs to support retro consoles would also be highly welcome. Those TRRS-style 'AV adapter' inputs most TVs come with nowadays (if anything at all) that require custom dongles are just worthless. Low-latency QD-OLED/MicroLED TV (one can dream) for large-screen retro fun, anyone? :)
Samsung still makes a dumb TV, it has HDMI, Optical Audio out, but no analog inputs, and the series goes in size from 43" to 75". It is called BET-H Series Crystal UHD 4K Pro TV. I feed the PC signal to it like a big monitor.
"much like computer monitors" ... Funny you should phrase it that way, because recently monitors started getting shipped with smart features that get their internet access via the same cables as the display input which makes them even worse than Smart TVs. Give it a few years and no one would even understand that analogy. Whereas you can circumvent the smart TV privacy issues by physically disconnecting the WiFi card and never giving it an ethernet connection, as long as your computer has internet access your smart monitor will be able to monitor your usage of your computer and share it with a 3rd party. Actually, with a USB-C connection, they could probably even start scanning your hard drive without your permission, which I imagine they'd initially excuse with the pretense of trying to stop illegal files in their various forms (like Apple and Google is already doing on their phones) but it won't stop there. Considering what happened to the dumb TV market I am very much concerned that I may soon lose the ability to purchase a dumb monitor.
@@PrimalMiltos That's not actually a TV and it's not completely "dumb" either. That's sold as a display screen for businesses, so it's not optimized for in home viewing. For example, it's only 60 hz refresh rate while my 4k dumb TV from 5 years ago which cost less than half that price has a 120 hz refresh rate. While they don't have the same smart features as most smart TVs, because they are marketed for business displays they come equipped with business apps preinstalled which you cannot uninstall. They also come with built in WiFi which make up the vast majority of EMFs released by the device so you'd need to physically open up to remove if you want to use as a TV and don't want interference affecting the devices you actually use. It's a step up from a smart TV in that it is "almost dumb", but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a dumb TV. Any device that comes with apps that wirelessly interact with other software is, by definition, a smart device.
I think this is an extremely important discussion. I sometimes get angry because my LG C8 is still having the same bad version of Web OS which lacks a looot while the picture quality is still solid even in 2022. I’m also bothered by the super annoying bugs on my Sony X90H, such as wifi turning off suddenly and without reason and I have to restart the TV to fix it. TVs MUST be treated differently in terms of chipset choice. I don’t know why all companies aren’t even bothered about such a thing!! Thank you Caleb, appreciate it.
I understand that the chipset that are being used on smart TVs are specialised for picture processing but Smartphone SoC are a lot powerful and have a good security while also having a great image processing for it's camera. We should start getting the same CPU and GPU power on our TV at least at the level of midrange smartphone.
I think a modular system for TV's is needed. That way if the display it self could be upgraded by swapping out a plug and Play device. Like if you don't want the tuner you could add an additional HDMI port making a 3 port tv a 4 port. Another benefit is support for future HDMI standards when let's say HDMI 5 gets here all you have to do is swap out the old HDMI boxes and slide in the new ones.
One thing that he hasn't mentioned, and I don't think many people think about, is Android TV Custom ROMs. Companies that make Android TVs should have all their drivers for all the functionality of the TV available as Open-source in the Android Kernel, and have an unlockable bootloader, so that the community can build fully featured Custom Android TV ROMs for these TVs. This is probably wishful thinking and isn't going to happen, but Custom ROMs could also help with long-term security updates.
@@PrimalMiltos if the rules say you have to be vaccinated to sit at a café and you aren’t vaccinated when sitting there…you’re just breaking the rules. You could have known so the arrest is justified. Any other breaking of rules would have had the same result. You will be arrested too in the US for breaking the rules.
The idea of a “smart tv” is the dumbest and most pointless thing imo. However, data has value, and that data is why TVs cost what they cost. That said, I would pay more to have everything “smart” ripped out of my tv.
Having just bought the A80j last year i have a smart TV but can see it will become dumber over time hence my Shield box. Having multiple ways to get to the same content is problematic for some in my house but the ads on each platform drive everyone crazy. The idea of subscription hardware makes no sense unless the initial outlay is removed to become more like a rental model.
It's nice to see this being mentioned at all, so many people just don't seem to care these days until something goes wrong. 😞 In your section about different rules for different countries and dismissing it for being too hard, it wouldn't be. They already put different firmware on phones depending on where they're going, also different plugs too and that's a physical difference not something easy to change like firmware. Regulation is probably required, not just for "Smart TV" but for anything which can be exploited, without rules requiring updates for X time the manufacturers expend as little effort on updates as they can get away with, often this drops to zero after an update to address any bugs in the initial firmware and then you're on your own. I'm quite surprised none of the phone manufacturers have started offering a subscription for getting ongoing updates, I guess the problem is that once updates go out people will share them via the internet through places like XDA. So they'd need to make it cheap enough that people will just choose it and make the updates really easy to do. This shouldn't be too hard as custom Android firmware is beyond most users! It wouldn't be too hard to sell either, it has a positive effect on the environment as individuals can choose to not contribute to the e-waste problem by keeping their old phone longer. Of course that starts to hurt the companies revenue so there isn't much incentive to do it, at least they'd get a bit or revenue via a subscription to keep the phone software up to date.
If Sony wants to do an update that would please every user, adjust the ASPECT RATIO. Constantly seeing 2cm of screen never being utilized at the bottom, makes me wonder if I should’ve gone with the 75” x95 LCD. Feels like I’m only getting 75 as is 😒. I love everything about this television except the aspect ratio that never seems to fit. I reverted my Sony a80j 77 inch to Basic mode & disconnected the internet. I stream through my Xbox, which updates far more often than my TV 📺. Consoles can handle everything you throw at them & are a fraction of the cost to replace or upgrade. I know the dumb tv tactic apparently failed in the past. But today anyone with a console 🎮 doesn’t need it. That’s why I wish instead of charging $3,000 for that a80j, I wish a non smart option was available for less with the same amazing evo panel. Choice is 🔑. I enjoyed Google TV for a minute. But it + having the internet fluctuations seem to put more stress on the OS than I was comfortable with. Slowdown & minor interface errors would crop up after a Saturday or Sunday heavy use day. Yes, a restart cleared this. But just having to do that was a turnoff, pun intended. I owned an LG OLED for 6 years & never used it as a smart TV even though available. I believe this is one if not the primary reason that set was still good as new when I sold it to my friend.
The upgradeabilty is why boxes like AppleTV and Roku are better options than a more powerful TV. This would suggest the TV be less smart and more a simple HMI display. No need for the software updates or security updates to the display then. Ads are not welcomed in a device you pay full price for. Ads should be removed unless they want to reduce the price of the TV.
100% on this. Recently my LG CX has started randomly changing inputs on me. I'll be watching the built-in Netflix app and all of a sudden my input will change to the PS5 and then the PS5 turns on and boots up of course. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the setting that allows auto-power on/off device control.
Yeah that sounds like a issue with hdmi CEC. My original ps4 (before I upgraded to the Pro) used to have this issue so I ended up disabling that feature to stop that as I always have the remote with me anyway.
Maybe you got unlucky? CEC works perfectly for me. A quick tap of the PlayStation button when it's already on switches to the PS5 input and if I tap the home button on my Chromecast remote, it'll switch to that input. I've never had it randomly do anything though. Are you sure you don't have a cat/dog pressing buttons from where you can't see? 😄
Hi I live in Australia and I can remember a time when we had to have a television licence, I’m in my 60’s and although most Australians will not remember this, it was the case and doesn’t seem very different to your monthly subscription thought.
Regulation sounds good but that ignores the sad fact that 90% of the language of almost every regulatory bill passed by Congress is provided to the legislators by lobbyists' working on behalf of the very business interests that are being regulated. The end result will be the business interests with the deepest pockets will be given tools that will make it easier for them to corral the industry and make it impossible for people to circumvent their interests. For instance, "dumb" user controllable TV's will be regulated out of existence, requiring the ability to filter content "for the public good".
Hi Caleb. Enjoyed your video. Here are some basic questions: 1. Why is your video way better than those DBVision on Netflix on my Sony X95H? I have a 50Gbs connection? 2. We pay the same to Netflix, but get only 25% of what's available in US. Geolocking should be abolished... 3. DBVision, HDR do not play any better on my Sony. Are these just marketing gimmicks we see in shops' demos? 3. IPTV at some stage should be legal. 4. User interface could and should be improved on TV. Mouse, pointers, keyboards...more think ing in this area. Ok Google is Ok, except when I really need it. Sometimes i ask Google to play a movie on Netflix, it would open RUclips....the control of apps thru Google is lacking. So there's a mouthful. Keep up the good work.👍 Oh, more software means more crap.😁😁😁
Honestly, is making the TV smarter really needed? Here in the UK most people have Sky, VM, Firestick, PS5, PS4, X Box, Apple TV under their TV and use it to watch the content they want. I’m sure the USA has similar cable boxes. TVs being smart isn’t really that necessary unless it’s to give a better picture/sound
Hoping for that giveaway 🙏 but yes your point about subscription based hardware would kill home theaters. As a IT & Telecom professional for over 30+ years I despise subscription based software, much less hardware, no way, subscription based hardware would not be popular.
Caleb, I applaud the drive for "dumb TV". I already have NVidia Shield and Apple TV, not to mention laptops with HDMI out. Please do highlight this option (eg "Basic TV") on every review you make. It will be very appreciated!
i agree with the dumb TV Option. my Living room tv is highly spec'd out... my bedroom tv however crashes upon crashes... i like the idea to get minimal updates... but since it's going to crash anyways... due to the slow processor (-_-) allow me to get my 10 years out of it being dumb with a dongle attached to the back.... it'll even freeze when switching inputs --_ for something only 3 years old I'm appalled!! and all tv's should come with an ethernet option at this point.... smh
Way ahead of you. I use my LG C1 as a dumb screen connected to 2 PC's. One is my old PC which I just use as a Media Center/NAS and the other is my Work and Gaming PC. I don't use any TV apps and I don't even have free to air Tv channels tuned in. I only connect to the internet when I know there is an OS update and then disconnect.
You are correct. I have had to go back and reset my TV (Sony A90J) a few times now to eliminate the obtrusive Google items. Based on the lack of ongoing support expected by Smart TVs I believe I will be returning my A90J and going back to an older 1080P TV until it dies and can not be resuscitated. As you said Caleb where are the security updates? not to mention keeping up with App updates allowing them to function well into the future. The screen and picture quality are important but using weak CPUs coupled with limited memory is like rowing a boat with the anchor in the water.
I have chosen the Dumb TV option with my LG CX. There are a couple of streaming services I use that are not available for LG, so since I had to buy a streaming stick anyway, why bother with the LG nonsense?
Still love my lg TV. If there's ads I haven't seen them. Menu is super simple and snappy... also easy to customize. The remote is amazing because it works like a wii remote with a cursor that moves with the remote movement. I have to say that from my perspective none of these concerns applies to my tv. Even the data sharing option is always available in the options. It's a CX btw. Also as someone who's lived in Germany a long time... many European tvs already have different model numbers. Between the apps used in different places plus the way the herz works in Europe and even the voltage in the wall... I think most tvs are designed for a particular part of the world.
When it comes to regulations, it won't necessarily be such a big problem as long as different jurisdictions don't have contradictory standards. If the EU implemented greater privacy protection (because lets face it, the EU will do it before the US), there's nothing stopping manufacturers using the same configuration in the US and having greater protection than required by US law. Just like with GDPR, a lot of sites implement it worldwide because that's just easier. But it's a problem if the US decides to implement their own standards which aren't just more or less strict, but incompatible with the EU ones.
I couldn’t agree more in this video especially at 6:10 he talks about YOU being FORCED to use the smart features that involve ads and apps. I have a Samsung Crystal 4KUHD 65” TU7000 series, and I’ve found a way to bypass downloading any apps or activating the smart tv features(no hacking or mods) . I just disconnect my internet from tv before it goes to download everything after I accept the “terms and use policy” this way I won’t get a big green message every second telling to finish up setting up my tv(meanwhile I already did but didn’t turn on the smart features and app downloads) The mean reason is because ALLL SMART TVS take up about75% or more of the TV’s Ram/Memory which actually does more harm then good because your tv actually takes longer to process,think, input lag, and MOST IMPORTANTLY when your in your tvs menu and it’s glitching or slow. Since I bypassed this I have only 45% of my TU7000’s Ram/memory used and it makes a real difference. I literally don’t buy TV’s for their smart app features, in fact I don’t use it at all. I let my Xbox series X console (or previous xbox consoles) do the app streaming. This bypass I found works on All Crystal 4KUHD Samsung’s tv series TU/AU7000, TU/AU8000 and TU/AU9000. But a lot of people do use the smart features on their new TVs
Actually Samsung & Vizio came out with options that were ahead of their time and may have not worked at that time but would be perfect today. Samsung's Evolution Kit Vizio's Theater Displays. TVs did not have tuners People could purchase theater displays and choose as an option to add or upgrade tuners, speakers, processors and operating systems.
My Sony Bravia from 2007 is perfect as far as user experience goes. Analogue and digital tuner, composite, component, VGA and HDMI inputs so I can still run my retro gaming machines and modern devices. I'm ok with the 1080p resolution. No apps built in. I use a Chromecast and I've upgraded it once. TV is fine alone and I have the latest Chromecast access. Done. Easy.
The satellite service from Sky has long been the leading pay TV service in the United Kingdom. The service is a broadcaster in its own right. Recently they introduced an alternative: a range of TVs called Sky Glass which uses the internet for the TV service instead. The purchase comes with a Sky subscription of course. Without a subscription, it is still possible to use streaming apps, but it is still necessary to have a Sky account linked. To get a fairly large range of free broadcast channels you would need to connect an antenna. Of course you can always connect external devices to an HDMI port. Sky has been owned by Comcast since 2018.
I’d like to see the software layers split apart on smart TVs (and other IOT devices). The basic operating system should, in my opinion, be open source based like Google has done with Android for smart phones. This OS layer should be automatically updated frequently to address security and functionality issues as well as extensions. Layered onto the basic OS would be the hardware specific support drivers from the manufacturer. This should be updated as needed by the manufacturer to address problems or provide new functionality. The next layer is the application operating environment. This is what the user interacts with and I’d like to see alternative offerings from the open source community as well as the product the manufacturer provides. The final layer is the Apps themselves and they should be organized like the well developed smart phone marketplace. Updated frequently and with a broad selection of functionality. These layers would provide enhanced security, more end user functionality as well as choice, and the opportunity for manufacturers to customize their products to make them attractive to the buyers.
@@jcgw2 Sorry, my bad. Android TV is, indeed, open source. I’d like to see more than one because monopolies are never good, but the phone heritage is certainly a feature.
Quick question for You. How can I get rid of the ads on RUclips??? Every time I’m watching RUclips the show I’m trying to watch keeps getting interrupted by ads that I have to skip. Some ads can’t be skipped. So how can I get rid of them???
I'd also add the lack of gigabit ethernet ports on these TVs. Cloud gaming apps coming to TVs in the very near future, and gigabit ethernet would help these $3K+ products deliver great performance well into the future. Also, 4K/8K streaming works more consistently on a gigabit ethernet connection. This is probably by design, though.
I just wanted to say something about ad free subscription thing: PLEASE dont give them ideas. its should be a flat fee you pay for when you buy your TV. maybe $100 or $200 max. we do not need another subscription and the next thing you know Phone OEMs start to get ideas
Yeah I really was surprised when he used the kindle example then jumped straight to subscription. I don't have to pay a subscription to avoid ads on it (as much amazon would love to do it, I don't think book lovers would stand for it). I guess the idea was to support constant update? But we don't even get that with the ad infested version we have now.
I have a shield (I believe the 2017 model). I can't believe how well NVIDIA does with updates. Aside from my iPad air 2, this thing has gotten a lot of updates. I believe I received an update 2 months ago. It now runs Android TV 11. -Think it shipped with 9-. Shipped with 7
How much would a TV cost retail without the data collection and ads? Would there be a significant price increase? Are TVs cheaper to produce now due to competition, tech improvements, manufacture in low wage economies etc?
yo this is awesome content. i love seeing a bigger name in media start to call out and push issues that are always looked over by the rest of the industry. I think rtings have excellent reviews but would love to see them ping scores for these banti consumer trends
Great video Caleb. In an era of updates, I think that we should expect manufacturers to update the tvs with better software. If you get a Samsung phone on day one, after a couple Of updates and months the phone is more stable, has bette battery life and even takes better photos and has more features! Sony stated that their magic is jot in the number of zones but what they do with it, that means that it's a software based advantage. Meaning that updates can be sent to improve picture quality! Lastly the idea of a dumb TV is AMAZING... Especially since TV manufacturers are notoriously bad at updates. An nvidia shield may be expensive but it provides so many brilliant features that it easily replace the tvs os
Yes, well, I have always hated when Apple would update and change the whole interface and its not always nicer. I would much prefer to have automated security updates but keep the visual changes optional.
I am happy to have made all my "smart" TVs dumb for past many years. Like many commenters, I use dongles/add-on hardware plugged into my TV HDMI port. Once these dongles/add-on hardware no longer get updates, I send them for recycling and get a new one while retaining my TV :-). Only connect my "smart" TV to the internet on the first/second year just to get picture/sound updates for the TV.
Good ideas here. My favorite takeaways are the dumb TV option with picture quality updates only. As far as the ads, rather than pay to not see them, I would rather TV manufactures sell a slightly more expensive dumb TV since there is no subsidy from advertisers, and let the people that want a smart TV with ads pay a little less. Kind of like Amazon selling Kindles for less if you take the ads.
Spent 3K on a new 77" Sony OLED recently. First thing I did was switched it to dumb mode and plugged in my AppleTV. I've learned from MANY years of owning MANY smart TVs is that the OS apps will always be inferior to the ones on "smart boxes". Why makers still want to invest time with their baked in menus and OS is beyond me? You can always easily replace/upgrade a roku box or appletv very cheaply.
Any smart TVs can be made dumb. You don’t need a special option. Just go to wifi settings and disconnect it from your home network. I choose to use a (Roku) anyway because all of my apps are never available on the smart TVs and as you pointed out, smart TVs get really slow and underpowered after about three years anyway. Why fight it? An external device is an inexpensive solution.
Around 10 years ago, some of the lower end brands (lower at the time anyway) like Hisense and Element had "Roku Ready" TVs that had MHL HDMI ports. You could plug a special Roku stick into the port and the TV remote controlled all aspects of the TV and stick. For some reason Roku never made an upgraded version of the stick and TV makers quit putting MHL HDMI ports on their TVs and the whole concept died. Today this makes more sense than ever. Just have an MHL enabled HDMI port on your TV and pick your favorite MHL adapter. If you like Roku, get Roku, if you want Fire TV get that, the possibilities are limitless, why didn't this take off?
The ads on my Samsung TV drove me crazy. It's insane that they can be allowed to push ads on a product that you own and have paid for. I have now blocked them by using AdGuard DNS in the settings :) But you should not have to go to lengths like that to enjoy an add-free tv-experience.
I bought a TV the same hear Adele's "Hello" came out. And already it's dying due to incompatibility with new apps. There's no HBO, Paramount, Disney, Apple, or Peacock apps. And even apps like Pluto are being dropped when the TV doesn't support the new version that came out a year or two ago. It's so infuriating, because it was among the brand's top-of-the-line at the time.
How about a lowjack feature? We can find and disable most smart phone and a myriad of computers and tablets. But not yet TVs. Another feature we need is the ability to incorporate a VPN to increase security.
Honestly either these tv need to not have a custom os and stick to just using machine learning chips to enchance the image on the screen or they need to have a upgrade-able external module attached to the tv with the ability for the display to still function without the module attached to it if they're so determined to make us do everything on the TV. That said, I don't really care for the OS side of thing for TVs as I use a xbox one s for all my streaming needs so the idea of updating the core features of the TV (like better upscaling or being able to accept VRR signal) apart from the OS itself would be pretty nice and would probably help with realistically holding on to a TV for a decade. Government regulation need to ban ads on the TV OS and just keep it on their respective stores. I don't even want suggested content as I see that as ads too. They also need to mandate years long support for these TVs with them being "unlocked" on end of support so someone could just load their own OS to keep it going if they wanted to. I really want to see efforts taken on reducing E-waste as much we can by extending the life of these "smart" TVs. No reason other then pure greed to not keep the current trend on holding on to TVs for a decade or more.
Upgradability is something of the 90/00’s, it’s all about dumping your 2yo device on a landfill in an African country, so you can buy a newer model with small incremental updates and more ads on it!
Just look at Samsung... They could easily have made their TVs really smart by putting all the intelligence in the One Connect Box instead, and then just let you upgrade that box when needed. Because the actual display will last way longer than the CPU power. Until they do that they should not be allowed to mention anything about how they plan for low environmental impact with their production and their products.
I would love a newer 4k or 8k tv without any smart functionality. Have ethernet port for patch and updating firmware etc. Double the hdmi inputs and then just use apple tv or one of the other streaming boxes
Just made the U8G as dumb as possible and hooked up the Roku Ultra. I was getting more than a little fed up with the Android system and its constant little glitches anyway. Thanks for the push!
Like many I don't (and won't EVER) pay for, or even think about thinking about, using RENTAL SOFTWARE period. I simply won't EVER use anything which is supplied on a rental basis no matter how much "better" it is. I either buy it outright or go without. No negotiation, no discussion, and personally I'd like to see forced rental outlawed endof. If someone really want's to rent then thats fine - but there should always always always be a purchase option for those of us who don't.
All I need or want is a high quality display device for the AV system, including a NUC brick PC with a wireless keyboard/mouse pad that does way more than any Smart TV ever will and the software is continually updated.
You should cover the new mediatek Pentonic 2000 the power is at the same level with high end phones it will power new 8k tvs in 2022 it should be a hub for all your smart home and will change the current situation
I doubt monitor mode is the best option, if manufacturers were to do this, they might s well just make the TV dumb and sell them with a stick. The biggest problem is that they are all hardware manufacturers who don't really get software, so like your pc is layered so you can replace your graphics card and one drive update later it all works d it used to, TV manufacturers should store their sugar the same way. Then, they should be able to support old models without problem. If they did that they could also then offer an api so anyone found replace the ui or apps themselves, outsourcing the cost of development to the app dev or just open source devs. After using MyStuff on a Topfield pvr, this would be awesome. But the reasons they don't, first crap software with no updates, encourage us to buy new TVs. The second is that their own ui allows them to sell us to the advertisers. This drive to rip us off even more is irresistible to the manufacturers.
TV’s are different depending where you buy them, the TV model code dictates what internet and TV services you get or more importantly don’t get Geo locking your TV.
I would love a tv without any smart platform that I can use with a streaming device. Speaking of which, if I plan to use the tv with a fire stick or another streaming device, which tv should I consider?
Instead of government regulations I’d seriously like to see someone like Underwriter‘s Laboratories take the lead on security and privacy. Published requirements that are updated regularly to address changing threats and technology that companies must comply with to get the sign off (label/license). The whole organization paid for by fees levied upon the manufactures and passed through to the customer.
if I actually have to pay to keep my TV being a TV then that to me sounds like laws should be passed to prevent such nonsense. As for adding more power to TVs, make no mistake TV manufactures and app makers are in cahoots, and the apps would just be made to use that additional power and quickly so in 2 or so years you all of a sudden are once again not getting updates because your TV is now considered weak. They don't call it planned obsolescence for no reason. Lastly about the ads, when you buy a TV, it should be ad free. matter of fact I paid for it to be ad free when I bought the TV in the first place and my TV should not be cramming ads down my throat and this only makes me want to build a pi-hole even more. That's the only sort of regulation I want to see when it comes to ads on the OS side of smart TVs currently. I shouldn't be crammed with an ad when I want to use my TV, sure put them in the apps but not on the home screen.
"I think that smart TV's should have the same kind of processing power as AT LEAST mid-tier phones!" Well said, I could not agree more! It's 2022, you should be able to run ALL the same apps that you can run on your phone directly on your TV, with an integrated webcam for video conferencing without needing any extra equipment! The lingering pandemic alone is enough to justify the need for this, as non-tech people NEED access to these technologies to communicate! Also agree about advertising - there should be 2 options for ALL streaming services (like there already is for RUclips) but unlike Netflix, Amazon Prime currently-not-included videos, etc.. should allow a subscription which you pay for which is adverts free OR a no-money subscription with advertisements in their content. Sky TV are just CRAZY by charging for access to their channels AND STILL forcing you to watch adverts - there should be the option of 1 or the other (paid subscription for advert free or FREE subscription with adverts - with the advertiser paying for you to watch the content.)
I agree with all that, except that I'd rather there were no integrated webcams in TVs. Especially with how insecure smart TVs are, it'd just be a way for people to spy on you through it. I don't even like the fact that you can't get a laptop these days without an integrated webcam.
I bought VIZIO 55" 4k 'smart' TV in 2018 because I couldn't get a proper non-'smart' TV. I have never connected it to my network or allowed network access, so I essentially have a non-'smart' TV.
I think TV manufacturers should have an upgradability option just like what Samsung used to do with their Evolution Kits in their pre-2015 models. I wonder why Samsung stopped making those.
The main problem is the whole App concept per se. Why do you need a specific App or let it call it what it is an application to play a specific service? Imagine you have a PC and have to install a specific program for visiting Facebook, another one for Google and a third one for reading the New York Times. That is ridiculous and to avoid this nightmare common standards have been established by the W3C and other organizations. The whole Internet was invented around the idea that only open standards can survive in the long term. Or think about the invitation of Java, a program code which can be downloaded and executed anywhere, even on your toast oven if you like. When browsing the web it doesn't make a difference if you are using a Mac, a Windows PC or a Linux Desktop and in my opinion this is the only way to go. Hence, it shouldn't matter if you are using a Samsung TV, LG or Sony TV or even something else. We have so much web technology that it would be a easy task to define a framework and every content producer could make its own website or application or whatever you what to call it and it would work nearly everywhere. Simply run this inside a virtual machine in your TV and even the most security concerns should be fixt as well. It's not magic, everything we need is already invited and it would be quite easy to get going. The real reason why companies try to force you using apps is that they what to stay the gate keeper, They what to control which content you can see and what content providers are allowed to deliver to you. Do you remember the times of Compuserve, America Online or MSN? It's the same problem had the days back than and the costumer must stand up and demand more. More freedom, more choice and more independent. That's my words!
I would be quite happy with a ‘dumb’ tv that I can plug my streaming box of choice into. I have an LG C1 and WebOS is painfully slow on it, to the point that it’s just annoying. Also, apps crash regularly and the interface is an ad-laden mess. Plugging in an Apple TV makes the user experience a hell of a lot better for me, plus I have a bunch of apps available that are not available in LG’s App Store. The C1 is not a cheap tv so this is just not acceptable in my view.
Hey everyone! Hope you’re enjoying some different content as we drive ever closer to the big TV reviews for 2022. Let me know what you think! Also, I’m taking a big trip to Southern California next week. Any guesses what for?
Disneyland? Del Taco? Visiting my mom?
I assume Vizio’s flying you out first class to Irvine with 5-star accommodations so they can give you the royal tour of their 2022 product lineup in person at corporate HQ.
Visit to Sony?
Does Sony still require acceptance of Google Terms and Services in order to proceed with the function of a person brand new smart TV?
It appears there is no denial of terms option that then allows the continued full function of your TV should the agreement not be checked off during set up.
Your thoughts please!
Dennis why don't you ever mention HTC... ( Home Theater Computer).It's like they don't exist to you guys ...I get the best of both worlds Smart TV and a computer...windows on my htc blows a half baked TV OS out of the water...You want processor power how about an I7 or I9 ...not that you need that but I7s are cheap these days ....I use my HTC 90 % of the time ..I'm using it now ..I almost never use the lame TV OS. When you talk about gaming or Netflix it's always Xbox or PlayStation....my htc crushes my Xbox and my PlayStation...just adding a cordless keyboard and mouse to your laptop works well for that matter. But nope computers and TV's don't go together as far as you guys are concerned. But hey you guys just keep being fish for the Corp's and me and my friends will just keep watching what we want when we want...in 4k too.
The best thing smart tvs can do is have a monitor mode. I would not mind upgrading an attached device every few years.
You already have that today. The moment you attach a streaming box the role of the tv is reduced to a monitor.
@@dhruvsingh78 Yeah, but the OS still gets in the way. I'd rather just be able to select an input and call it a day.
That's what I already do. Half of these "smart" platforms suck anyway. Especially Google tv, which at this point is just a glorified billboard at this point anyway...
@@illegalalien6542 not really i have never seen anytging half as good as my nvidia shield
Or even better would be for Tv manufacturers to stop cashing in on our data, and start selling display only TVs.
I don’t know a single person that uses their smart Tv features. Literally everyone I know uses an external device for their streaming and gaming.
LG made almost as much money selling personal viewer data, than they made selling the shitty TVs that stole it.
It’s time consumers demand a return to Non-smart TVs.
I really wish we could just buy a panel only, with an external box that contains signal processing and smart features and could be replaced over time. They already do this kind of stuff for Micro LED walls and really high end projection rooms, but it shouldn't be impossible to get it down to consumer high end levels.
You might not realize, but your gripes about Smart TVs also apply to cars. It is easy to see the trajectory that cars will have more and more built-in features and OS standardization. If we don't solve this issue for TVs now, cars will only magnify the issue as you can't just make your car into a 'dumb car'. The security issues are especially concerning in that industry.
Yes keyless entry is not a good thing for security.
Yes you are absolutely correct .Better option would be a dumb tv with detachable tv streaming device, so that even the software outdated we can easily replace the streaming device. Sadly manufacturers are not ready to provide such a good option to consumers.
Samsung tried this back in 2013. They quickly dropped it a few years later, I think it was called the Samsung Evolution Kit.
RUclips literally played an ad right after you stopped talking about the ad free option.........It is hard to believe how badly smart TVs are managed.
Congratulations on the transformation from 0:42 to the better color grading seen on this video. All prior videos were really green in hue, so this is a welcome change. No hate. No shade. a genuine compliment on your development as a fellow AV colleague. Good work.
Have seen some of your videos and I like your content bro. It’s great seeing you showing positivity. I think all AV people should come together to help us consumers make good TV choices.
I'd be interested in just a straight up 100-inch OLED tv with no smart features. Apple TV 4k is basically all I've ever needed.
Same here I have 15 years old 50 inch 1080p Sony Bravia plugged in to first gen Apple TV and I find it a better set up than most of my friends with their fancy LG OSs or smart identity stealing androids
This Dumb Tv option is the Samrther Tv request. And I'm in for it.
Good video. And necessary. Ads on TVs is gross. So is the crazy level of data collection. As long as Apple makes a streaming device, I will have one if for no other reason than being ad-free. But privacy is a huge issue either way. You shouldn’t have to read War and Peace level fine print or be forced into massive data collection to watch the news.
My ideal next TV would be a simple video display device. No speakers, tuner, apps, OS, etc. It would just display the video from whatever source I choose, Apple TV, Roku, STB, etc. and display the video from that source. Audio and input switching would be handled by my AVR. Updates to input devices could be done at my discretion and not dependent on whether my TV manufacturer decides to continue supporting new versions of apps.
Same here. I would actually pay more for such a device. Give me a good quality screen and HDMI capability.
I think my Vizio TV was literally bricked from some bad update. Apps do not work as it claims there is no net connection, even though it says it's connected under menu options. Yet my other TV connects fine. Resetting the TV to previous firmware also doesn't work.
@@overnightdelivery Happened to my friend with a Phillips TV as well. Nice downgrade from 10 year old TVs that work perfectly for years.
Just did this with my new Sony. The appletv interface and menus give me more control over content than the stock OS on a TV.
That already exists. There's a category of products called "Large Format Displays" or "Big Format Gaming Displays", basically computer monitors that are the size of a TV. I think they're generally quite a bit more expensive than comparable TVs though, being something of a niche product.
My nostalgia when it comes to TVs involves when they were just simple display devices, much like computer monitors. Just some inputs, a few outputs, and a way to switch between inputs and tinker with the image settings.
If I were to buy a 'smart TV' today, I'd want to set it up as a 'dumb' TV, and use it solely to display content from a connected PC and consoles. I already got all the streaming services I use on said PC, why would I want to have a less secure, ad-filled and likely slower/glitchier experience on the TV's built-in 'PC' instead?
On that note, more analogue inputs to support retro consoles would also be highly welcome. Those TRRS-style 'AV adapter' inputs most TVs come with nowadays (if anything at all) that require custom dongles are just worthless. Low-latency QD-OLED/MicroLED TV (one can dream) for large-screen retro fun, anyone? :)
Samsung still makes a dumb TV, it has HDMI, Optical Audio out, but no analog inputs, and the series goes in size from 43" to 75".
It is called BET-H Series Crystal UHD 4K Pro TV.
I feed the PC signal to it like a big monitor.
"much like computer monitors" ... Funny you should phrase it that way, because recently monitors started getting shipped with smart features that get their internet access via the same cables as the display input which makes them even worse than Smart TVs. Give it a few years and no one would even understand that analogy. Whereas you can circumvent the smart TV privacy issues by physically disconnecting the WiFi card and never giving it an ethernet connection, as long as your computer has internet access your smart monitor will be able to monitor your usage of your computer and share it with a 3rd party. Actually, with a USB-C connection, they could probably even start scanning your hard drive without your permission, which I imagine they'd initially excuse with the pretense of trying to stop illegal files in their various forms (like Apple and Google is already doing on their phones) but it won't stop there.
Considering what happened to the dumb TV market I am very much concerned that I may soon lose the ability to purchase a dumb monitor.
@@PrimalMiltos That's not actually a TV and it's not completely "dumb" either. That's sold as a display screen for businesses, so it's not optimized for in home viewing. For example, it's only 60 hz refresh rate while my 4k dumb TV from 5 years ago which cost less than half that price has a 120 hz refresh rate. While they don't have the same smart features as most smart TVs, because they are marketed for business displays they come equipped with business apps preinstalled which you cannot uninstall. They also come with built in WiFi which make up the vast majority of EMFs released by the device so you'd need to physically open up to remove if you want to use as a TV and don't want interference affecting the devices you actually use.
It's a step up from a smart TV in that it is "almost dumb", but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a dumb TV. Any device that comes with apps that wirelessly interact with other software is, by definition, a smart device.
I think this is an extremely important discussion. I sometimes get angry because my LG C8 is still having the same bad version of Web OS which lacks a looot while the picture quality is still solid even in 2022. I’m also bothered by the super annoying bugs on my Sony X90H, such as wifi turning off suddenly and without reason and I have to restart the TV to fix it.
TVs MUST be treated differently in terms of chipset choice. I don’t know why all companies aren’t even bothered about such a thing!!
Thank you Caleb, appreciate it.
Stop using the stupid built in “smart” features. Problem solved.
Just buy a cromecast if you want something cheap or a nvidia shiled if you want perfornce amd stop using the tv's os
My LG 65C8OLED I've had for about 3 years now has had at least 5 or 6 updates so LG seems to be doing a good job.
I understand that the chipset that are being used on smart TVs are specialised for picture processing but Smartphone SoC are a lot powerful and have a good security while also having a great image processing for it's camera. We should start getting the same CPU and GPU power on our TV at least at the level of midrange smartphone.
I think a modular system for TV's is needed. That way if the display it self could be upgraded by swapping out a plug and Play device. Like if you don't want the tuner you could add an additional HDMI port making a 3 port tv a 4 port. Another benefit is support for future HDMI standards when let's say HDMI 5 gets here all you have to do is swap out the old HDMI boxes and slide in the new ones.
One thing that he hasn't mentioned, and I don't think many people think about, is Android TV Custom ROMs. Companies that make Android TVs should have all their drivers for all the functionality of the TV available as Open-source in the Android Kernel, and have an unlockable bootloader, so that the community can build fully featured Custom Android TV ROMs for these TVs. This is probably wishful thinking and isn't going to happen, but Custom ROMs could also help with long-term security updates.
I’m so happy to live in Europe where we have quite strict regulations on privacy.
I don’t see adverts on the main screen of the tv.
Really you think your strict Regulations are protecting you. Lol you really think you have privacy? 🤦🏼♂️ You don’t
@@CaptGus more than in the USA
@@palantir135 OK if you think so
Yeah but in Europe they arrest you for not being vaccinated drinking coffee at a Paris cafe.
@@PrimalMiltos if the rules say you have to be vaccinated to sit at a café and you aren’t vaccinated when sitting there…you’re just breaking the rules. You could have known so the arrest is justified. Any other breaking of rules would have had the same result. You will be arrested too in the US for breaking the rules.
The idea of a “smart tv” is the dumbest and most pointless thing imo. However, data has value, and that data is why TVs cost what they cost. That said, I would pay more to have everything “smart” ripped out of my tv.
Having just bought the A80j last year i have a smart TV but can see it will become dumber over time hence my Shield box. Having multiple ways to get to the same content is problematic for some in my house but the ads on each platform drive everyone crazy. The idea of subscription hardware makes no sense unless the initial outlay is removed to become more like a rental model.
It's nice to see this being mentioned at all, so many people just don't seem to care these days until something goes wrong. 😞
In your section about different rules for different countries and dismissing it for being too hard, it wouldn't be. They already put different firmware on phones depending on where they're going, also different plugs too and that's a physical difference not something easy to change like firmware.
Regulation is probably required, not just for "Smart TV" but for anything which can be exploited, without rules requiring updates for X time the manufacturers expend as little effort on updates as they can get away with, often this drops to zero after an update to address any bugs in the initial firmware and then you're on your own.
I'm quite surprised none of the phone manufacturers have started offering a subscription for getting ongoing updates, I guess the problem is that once updates go out people will share them via the internet through places like XDA. So they'd need to make it cheap enough that people will just choose it and make the updates really easy to do. This shouldn't be too hard as custom Android firmware is beyond most users!
It wouldn't be too hard to sell either, it has a positive effect on the environment as individuals can choose to not contribute to the e-waste problem by keeping their old phone longer. Of course that starts to hurt the companies revenue so there isn't much incentive to do it, at least they'd get a bit or revenue via a subscription to keep the phone software up to date.
If Sony wants to do an update that would please every user, adjust the ASPECT RATIO. Constantly seeing 2cm of screen never being utilized at the bottom, makes me wonder if I should’ve gone with the 75” x95 LCD. Feels like I’m only getting 75 as is 😒.
I love everything about this television except the aspect ratio that never seems to fit.
I reverted my Sony a80j 77 inch to Basic mode & disconnected the internet. I stream through my Xbox, which updates far more often than my TV 📺.
Consoles can handle everything you throw at them & are a fraction of the cost to replace or upgrade. I know the dumb tv tactic apparently failed in the past. But today anyone with a console 🎮 doesn’t need it.
That’s why I wish instead of charging $3,000 for that a80j, I wish a non smart option was available for less with the same amazing evo panel. Choice is 🔑.
I enjoyed Google TV for a minute. But it + having the internet fluctuations seem to put more stress on the OS than I was comfortable with. Slowdown & minor interface errors would crop up after a Saturday or Sunday heavy use day.
Yes, a restart cleared this. But just having to do that was a turnoff, pun intended.
I owned an LG OLED for 6 years & never used it as a smart TV even though available. I believe this is one if not the primary reason that set was still good as new when I sold it to my friend.
You do realize right after your complaint about ads, RUclips ran a short ad with the Beatles. Irony!
Curious … what happens if you don’t agree to the Terms and Conditions?
Nothing on my a80j, it would still allow me to use it as a smart tv. I just probably couldn’t claim the bonus offers from Sony 😉
For us cord cutters a way to more easily toggle between apps without having to close them first would be helpful.
Another argument for more processing power.
Juat buy am nviad shiled
The upgradeabilty is why boxes like AppleTV and Roku are better options than a more powerful TV. This would suggest the TV be less smart and more a simple HMI display. No need for the software updates or security updates to the display then. Ads are not welcomed in a device you pay full price for. Ads should be removed unless they want to reduce the price of the TV.
The lack of updateability also contributes to the growing e-waste problem.
100% on this. Recently my LG CX has started randomly changing inputs on me. I'll be watching the built-in Netflix app and all of a sudden my input will change to the PS5 and then the PS5 turns on and boots up of course. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the setting that allows auto-power on/off device control.
Yeah that sounds like a issue with hdmi CEC. My original ps4 (before I upgraded to the Pro) used to have this issue so I ended up disabling that feature to stop that as I always have the remote with me anyway.
Maybe you got unlucky? CEC works perfectly for me. A quick tap of the PlayStation button when it's already on switches to the PS5 input and if I tap the home button on my Chromecast remote, it'll switch to that input. I've never had it randomly do anything though. Are you sure you don't have a cat/dog pressing buttons from where you can't see? 😄
Hi I live in Australia and I can remember a time when we had to have a television licence, I’m in my 60’s and although most Australians will not remember this, it was the case and doesn’t seem very different to your monthly subscription thought.
Regulation sounds good but that ignores the sad fact that 90% of the language of almost every regulatory bill passed by Congress is provided to the legislators by lobbyists' working on behalf of the very business interests that are being regulated.
The end result will be the business interests with the deepest pockets will be given tools that will make it easier for them to corral the industry and make it impossible for people to circumvent their interests. For instance, "dumb" user controllable TV's will be regulated out of existence, requiring the ability to filter content "for the public good".
Set-up my Sony A80J without the GTV and attached a Roku Ultra to it, everything is working fine😃
Hi Caleb. Enjoyed your video. Here are some basic questions:
1. Why is your video way better than those DBVision on Netflix on my Sony X95H? I have a 50Gbs connection?
2. We pay the same to Netflix, but get only 25% of what's available in US. Geolocking should be abolished...
3. DBVision, HDR do not play any better on my Sony. Are these just marketing gimmicks we see in shops' demos?
3. IPTV at some stage should be legal.
4. User interface could and should be improved on TV. Mouse, pointers, keyboards...more think ing in this area. Ok Google is Ok, except when I really need it. Sometimes i ask Google to play a movie on Netflix, it would open RUclips....the control of apps thru Google is lacking.
So there's a mouthful. Keep up the good work.👍 Oh, more software means more crap.😁😁😁
Interesting thoughts! I was quite amused that your comment about needing less ads on smart TVs was interrupted by a youtube advert!
I've had my gaming PC connected to my TV for several years now and not looked back.
Honestly, is making the TV smarter really needed? Here in the UK most people have Sky, VM, Firestick, PS5, PS4, X Box, Apple TV under their TV and use it to watch the content they want. I’m sure the USA has similar cable boxes. TVs being smart isn’t really that necessary unless it’s to give a better picture/sound
Good to see someone calling out the scammers, they are on nearly every tech channel I've been on lately and a few random ones too.
Hoping for that giveaway 🙏 but yes your point about subscription based hardware would kill home theaters. As a IT & Telecom professional for over 30+ years I despise subscription based software, much less hardware, no way, subscription based hardware would not be popular.
Caleb, I applaud the drive for "dumb TV". I already have NVidia Shield and Apple TV, not to mention laptops with HDMI out. Please do highlight this option (eg "Basic TV") on every review you make. It will be very appreciated!
i agree with the dumb TV Option. my Living room tv is highly spec'd out... my bedroom tv however crashes upon crashes... i like the idea to get minimal updates... but since it's going to crash anyways... due to the slow processor (-_-) allow me to get my 10 years out of it being dumb with a dongle attached to the back.... it'll even freeze when switching inputs --_ for something only 3 years old I'm appalled!! and all tv's should come with an ethernet option at this point.... smh
Way ahead of you.
I use my LG C1 as a dumb screen connected to 2 PC's.
One is my old PC which I just use as a Media Center/NAS and the other is my Work and Gaming PC.
I don't use any TV apps and I don't even have free to air Tv channels tuned in.
I only connect to the internet when I know there is an OS update and then disconnect.
You are correct. I have had to go back and reset my TV (Sony A90J) a few times now to eliminate the obtrusive Google items. Based on the lack of ongoing support expected by Smart TVs I believe I will be returning my A90J and going back to an older 1080P TV until it dies and can not be resuscitated. As you said Caleb where are the security updates? not to mention keeping up with App updates allowing them to function well into the future. The screen and picture quality are important but using weak CPUs coupled with limited memory is like rowing a boat with the anchor in the water.
I have chosen the Dumb TV option with my LG CX. There are a couple of streaming services I use that are not available for LG, so since I had to buy a streaming stick anyway, why bother with the LG nonsense?
Still love my lg TV. If there's ads I haven't seen them. Menu is super simple and snappy... also easy to customize. The remote is amazing because it works like a wii remote with a cursor that moves with the remote movement. I have to say that from my perspective none of these concerns applies to my tv. Even the data sharing option is always available in the options. It's a CX btw. Also as someone who's lived in Germany a long time... many European tvs already have different model numbers. Between the apps used in different places plus the way the herz works in Europe and even the voltage in the wall... I think most tvs are designed for a particular part of the world.
When it comes to regulations, it won't necessarily be such a big problem as long as different jurisdictions don't have contradictory standards. If the EU implemented greater privacy protection (because lets face it, the EU will do it before the US), there's nothing stopping manufacturers using the same configuration in the US and having greater protection than required by US law. Just like with GDPR, a lot of sites implement it worldwide because that's just easier.
But it's a problem if the US decides to implement their own standards which aren't just more or less strict, but incompatible with the EU ones.
I couldn’t agree more in this video especially at 6:10 he talks about YOU being FORCED to use the smart features that involve ads and apps.
I have a Samsung Crystal 4KUHD 65” TU7000 series, and I’ve found a way to bypass downloading any apps or activating the smart tv features(no hacking or mods) . I just disconnect my internet from tv before it goes to download everything after I accept the “terms and use policy” this way I won’t get a big green message every second telling to finish up setting up my tv(meanwhile I already did but didn’t turn on the smart features and app downloads) The mean reason is because ALLL SMART TVS take up about75% or more of the TV’s Ram/Memory which actually does more harm then good because your tv actually takes longer to process,think, input lag, and MOST IMPORTANTLY when your in your tvs menu and it’s glitching or slow. Since I bypassed this I have only 45% of my TU7000’s Ram/memory used and it makes a real difference. I literally don’t buy TV’s for their smart app features, in fact I don’t use it at all. I let my Xbox series X console (or previous xbox consoles) do the app streaming.
This bypass I found works on All Crystal 4KUHD Samsung’s tv series TU/AU7000,
TU/AU8000 and TU/AU9000. But a lot of people do use the smart features on their new TVs
Thanks, Caleb! Yes, I believe this is the right direction.
I don't think saying smart TVs should like smartphones is a good idea. Most smartphones have a end day software update that is less than 5 years.
HAHAHA! I love how a couple Ads played right after the Ad-Free segment of the video.
Actually Samsung & Vizio came out with options that were ahead of their time and may have not worked at that time but would be perfect today.
Samsung's Evolution Kit
Vizio's Theater Displays. TVs did not have tuners
People could purchase theater displays and choose as an option to add or upgrade tuners, speakers, processors and operating systems.
My Sony Bravia from 2007 is perfect as far as user experience goes. Analogue and digital tuner, composite, component, VGA and HDMI inputs so I can still run my retro gaming machines and modern devices. I'm ok with the 1080p resolution. No apps built in. I use a Chromecast and I've upgraded it once. TV is fine alone and I have the latest Chromecast access. Done. Easy.
The satellite service from Sky has long been the leading pay TV service in the United Kingdom. The service is a broadcaster in its own right. Recently they introduced an alternative: a range of TVs called Sky Glass which uses the internet for the TV service instead. The purchase comes with a Sky subscription of course. Without a subscription, it is still possible to use streaming apps, but it is still necessary to have a Sky account linked. To get a fairly large range of free broadcast channels you would need to connect an antenna. Of course you can always connect external devices to an HDMI port.
Sky has been owned by Comcast since 2018.
Very good points!
I’d like to see the software layers split apart on smart TVs (and other IOT devices). The basic operating system should, in my opinion, be open source based like Google has done with Android for smart phones. This OS layer should be automatically updated frequently to address security and functionality issues as well as extensions.
Layered onto the basic OS would be the hardware specific support drivers from the manufacturer. This should be updated as needed by the manufacturer to address problems or provide new functionality.
The next layer is the application operating environment. This is what the user interacts with and I’d like to see alternative offerings from the open source community as well as the product the manufacturer provides.
The final layer is the Apps themselves and they should be organized like the well developed smart phone marketplace. Updated frequently and with a broad selection of functionality.
These layers would provide enhanced security, more end user functionality as well as choice, and the opportunity for manufacturers to customize their products to make them attractive to the buyers.
Isnt android tv open source too? I think is just a fork of android. Besides that. great idea. Sadly i dont think most non-programmers will understand
@@jcgw2 Sorry, my bad. Android TV is, indeed, open source. I’d like to see more than one because monopolies are never good, but the phone heritage is certainly a feature.
Or TVs can just NOT GIVE ADS. I pay SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS to buy the TV. I shouldn’t have to pay to get rid of your ads too
That's why I never buy flagship tvs. The tv I currently use is a 2018 Samsung 6 series 4K tv that I got on rollback at Walmart for $135.00.
Quick question for You. How can I get rid of the ads on RUclips??? Every time I’m watching RUclips the show I’m trying to watch keeps getting interrupted by ads that I have to skip. Some ads can’t be skipped. So how can I get rid of them???
I'd also add the lack of gigabit ethernet ports on these TVs. Cloud gaming apps coming to TVs in the very near future, and gigabit ethernet would help these $3K+ products deliver great performance well into the future. Also, 4K/8K streaming works more consistently on a gigabit ethernet connection.
This is probably by design, though.
I just wanted to say something about ad free subscription thing: PLEASE dont give them ideas. its should be a flat fee you pay for when you buy your TV. maybe $100 or $200 max. we do not need another subscription and the next thing you know Phone OEMs start to get ideas
Yeah I really was surprised when he used the kindle example then jumped straight to subscription. I don't have to pay a subscription to avoid ads on it (as much amazon would love to do it, I don't think book lovers would stand for it). I guess the idea was to support constant update? But we don't even get that with the ad infested version we have now.
I have a shield (I believe the 2017 model). I can't believe how well NVIDIA does with updates. Aside from my iPad air 2, this thing has gotten a lot of updates. I believe I received an update 2 months ago.
It now runs Android TV 11. -Think it shipped with 9-. Shipped with 7
Forcing more horsepower into TVs would attract even more hackers to use your TV for mining. ha ha
How much would a TV cost retail without the data collection and ads? Would there be a significant price increase? Are TVs cheaper to produce now due to competition, tech improvements, manufacture in low wage economies etc?
No Ads here in The Netherlands on my OLED55 8 series
As many posters are stating to connect an external device I am curious what everyone considers the best device for this at this time?
yo this is awesome content. i love seeing a bigger name in media start to call out and push issues that are always looked over by the rest of the industry. I think rtings have excellent reviews but would love to see them ping scores for these banti consumer trends
Great video Caleb. In an era of updates, I think that we should expect manufacturers to update the tvs with better software. If you get a Samsung phone on day one, after a couple Of updates and months the phone is more stable, has bette battery life and even takes better photos and has more features!
Sony stated that their magic is jot in the number of zones but what they do with it, that means that it's a software based advantage. Meaning that updates can be sent to improve picture quality!
Lastly the idea of a dumb TV is AMAZING... Especially since TV manufacturers are notoriously bad at updates. An nvidia shield may be expensive but it provides so many brilliant features that it easily replace the tvs os
Yes, well, I have always hated when Apple would update and change the whole interface and its not always nicer. I would much prefer to have automated security updates but keep the visual changes optional.
I am happy to have made all my "smart" TVs dumb for past many years. Like many commenters, I use dongles/add-on hardware plugged into my TV HDMI port. Once these dongles/add-on hardware no longer get updates, I send them for recycling and get a new one while retaining my TV :-). Only connect my "smart" TV to the internet on the first/second year just to get picture/sound updates for the TV.
Good ideas here. My favorite takeaways are the dumb TV option with picture quality updates only. As far as the ads, rather than pay to not see them, I would rather TV manufactures sell a slightly more expensive dumb TV since there is no subsidy from advertisers, and let the people that want a smart TV with ads pay a little less. Kind of like Amazon selling Kindles for less if you take the ads.
Spent 3K on a new 77" Sony OLED recently. First thing I did was switched it to dumb mode and plugged in my AppleTV. I've learned from MANY years of owning MANY smart TVs is that the OS apps will always be inferior to the ones on "smart boxes". Why makers still want to invest time with their baked in menus and OS is beyond me? You can always easily replace/upgrade a roku box or appletv very cheaply.
Any smart TVs can be made dumb. You don’t need a special option. Just go to wifi settings and disconnect it from your home network. I choose to use a (Roku) anyway because all of my apps are never available on the smart TVs and as you pointed out, smart TVs get really slow and underpowered after about three years anyway. Why fight it? An external device is an inexpensive solution.
Around 10 years ago, some of the lower end brands (lower at the time anyway) like Hisense and Element had "Roku Ready" TVs that had MHL HDMI ports. You could plug a special Roku stick into the port and the TV remote controlled all aspects of the TV and stick. For some reason Roku never made an upgraded version of the stick and TV makers quit putting MHL HDMI ports on their TVs and the whole concept died. Today this makes more sense than ever. Just have an MHL enabled HDMI port on your TV and pick your favorite MHL adapter. If you like Roku, get Roku, if you want Fire TV get that, the possibilities are limitless, why didn't this take off?
The ads on my Samsung TV drove me crazy. It's insane that they can be allowed to push ads on a product that you own and have paid for. I have now blocked them by using AdGuard DNS in the settings :) But you should not have to go to lengths like that to enjoy an add-free tv-experience.
I bought a TV the same hear Adele's "Hello" came out. And already it's dying due to incompatibility with new apps. There's no HBO, Paramount, Disney, Apple, or Peacock apps. And even apps like Pluto are being dropped when the TV doesn't support the new version that came out a year or two ago. It's so infuriating, because it was among the brand's top-of-the-line at the time.
How about a lowjack feature? We can find and disable most smart phone and a myriad of computers and tablets. But not yet TVs.
Another feature we need is the ability to incorporate a VPN to increase security.
Honestly either these tv need to not have a custom os and stick to just using machine learning chips to enchance the image on the screen or they need to have a upgrade-able external module attached to the tv with the ability for the display to still function without the module attached to it if they're so determined to make us do everything on the TV.
That said, I don't really care for the OS side of thing for TVs as I use a xbox one s for all my streaming needs so the idea of updating the core features of the TV (like better upscaling or being able to accept VRR signal) apart from the OS itself would be pretty nice and would probably help with realistically holding on to a TV for a decade.
Government regulation need to ban ads on the TV OS and just keep it on their respective stores. I don't even want suggested content as I see that as ads too. They also need to mandate years long support for these TVs with them being "unlocked" on end of support so someone could just load their own OS to keep it going if they wanted to. I really want to see efforts taken on reducing E-waste as much we can by extending the life of these "smart" TVs. No reason other then pure greed to not keep the current trend on holding on to TVs for a decade or more.
Upgradability is something of the 90/00’s, it’s all about dumping your 2yo device on a landfill in an African country, so you can buy a newer model with small incremental updates and more ads on it!
Just look at Samsung... They could easily have made their TVs really smart by putting all the intelligence in the One Connect Box instead, and then just let you upgrade that box when needed. Because the actual display will last way longer than the CPU power. Until they do that they should not be allowed to mention anything about how they plan for low environmental impact with their production and their products.
I would love a newer 4k or 8k tv without any smart functionality. Have ethernet port for patch and updating firmware etc. Double the hdmi inputs and then just use apple tv or one of the other streaming boxes
"The advertisers, they'll put ads on our eyeballs, if they could develop the technology." -- Ralph Nader
Just made the U8G as dumb as possible and hooked up the Roku Ultra. I was getting more than a little fed up with the Android system and its constant little glitches anyway. Thanks for the push!
Thanks for the video
No problem!
If they are going to force ads on things we are buying then they should be even cheaper.
I would prefer no os on a tv, just add your choice of stream box or stick. Manufacturers should offer the monitor only choice.
Like many I don't (and won't EVER) pay for, or even think about thinking about, using RENTAL SOFTWARE period. I simply won't EVER use anything which is supplied on a rental basis no matter how much "better" it is. I either buy it outright or go without. No negotiation, no discussion, and personally I'd like to see forced rental outlawed endof. If someone really want's to rent then thats fine - but there should always always always be a purchase option for those of us who don't.
All I need or want is a high quality display device for the AV system, including a NUC brick PC with a wireless keyboard/mouse pad that does way more than any Smart TV ever will and the software is continually updated.
You should cover the new mediatek Pentonic 2000 the power is at the same level with high end phones it will power new 8k tvs in 2022 it should be a hub for all your smart home and will change the current situation
I doubt monitor mode is the best option, if manufacturers were to do this, they might s well just make the TV dumb and sell them with a stick.
The biggest problem is that they are all hardware manufacturers who don't really get software, so like your pc is layered so you can replace your graphics card and one drive update later it all works d it used to, TV manufacturers should store their sugar the same way. Then, they should be able to support old models without problem.
If they did that they could also then offer an api so anyone found replace the ui or apps themselves, outsourcing the cost of development to the app dev or just open source devs. After using MyStuff on a Topfield pvr, this would be awesome.
But the reasons they don't, first crap software with no updates, encourage us to buy new TVs. The second is that their own ui allows them to sell us to the advertisers. This drive to rip us off even more is irresistible to the manufacturers.
TV’s are different depending where you buy them, the TV model code dictates what internet and TV services you get or more importantly don’t get Geo locking your TV.
If TV manufacturers offered a high-end TV with no smart features it would be an instant hit.
I would love a tv without any smart platform that I can use with a streaming device. Speaking of which, if I plan to use the tv with a fire stick or another streaming device, which tv should I consider?
Instead of government regulations I’d seriously like to see someone like Underwriter‘s Laboratories take the lead on security and privacy. Published requirements that are updated regularly to address changing threats and technology that companies must comply with to get the sign off (label/license). The whole organization paid for by fees levied upon the manufactures and passed through to the customer.
if I actually have to pay to keep my TV being a TV then that to me sounds like laws should be passed to prevent such nonsense. As for adding more power to TVs, make no mistake TV manufactures and app makers are in cahoots, and the apps would just be made to use that additional power and quickly so in 2 or so years you all of a sudden are once again not getting updates because your TV is now considered weak. They don't call it planned obsolescence for no reason. Lastly about the ads, when you buy a TV, it should be ad free. matter of fact I paid for it to be ad free when I bought the TV in the first place and my TV should not be cramming ads down my throat and this only makes me want to build a pi-hole even more. That's the only sort of regulation I want to see when it comes to ads on the OS side of smart TVs currently. I shouldn't be crammed with an ad when I want to use my TV, sure put them in the apps but not on the home screen.
"I think that smart TV's should have the same kind of processing power as AT LEAST mid-tier phones!" Well said, I could not agree more! It's 2022, you should be able to run ALL the same apps that you can run on your phone directly on your TV, with an integrated webcam for video conferencing without needing any extra equipment! The lingering pandemic alone is enough to justify the need for this, as non-tech people NEED access to these technologies to communicate!
Also agree about advertising - there should be 2 options for ALL streaming services (like there already is for RUclips) but unlike Netflix, Amazon Prime currently-not-included videos, etc.. should allow a subscription which you pay for which is adverts free OR a no-money subscription with advertisements in their content. Sky TV are just CRAZY by charging for access to their channels AND STILL forcing you to watch adverts - there should be the option of 1 or the other (paid subscription for advert free or FREE subscription with adverts - with the advertiser paying for you to watch the content.)
I agree with all that, except that I'd rather there were no integrated webcams in TVs. Especially with how insecure smart TVs are, it'd just be a way for people to spy on you through it. I don't even like the fact that you can't get a laptop these days without an integrated webcam.
I bought VIZIO 55" 4k 'smart' TV in 2018 because I couldn't get a proper non-'smart' TV.
I have never connected it to my network or allowed network access, so I essentially have a non-'smart' TV.
I think TV manufacturers should have an upgradability option just like what Samsung used to do with their Evolution Kits in their pre-2015 models. I wonder why Samsung stopped making those.
Smart TVs should offer more cloud services. For example my GoPro footage in 4k I would like to see without plugging in my GoPro camera.
Dude I love you Mr Denison!❤️
The main problem is the whole App concept per se. Why do you need a specific App or let it call it what it is an application to play a specific service? Imagine you have a PC and have to install a specific program for visiting Facebook, another one for Google and a third one for reading the New York Times. That is ridiculous and to avoid this nightmare common standards have been established by the W3C and other organizations. The whole Internet was invented around the idea that only open standards can survive in the long term. Or think about the invitation of Java, a program code which can be downloaded and executed anywhere, even on your toast oven if you like. When browsing the web it doesn't make a difference if you are using a Mac, a Windows PC or a Linux Desktop and in my opinion this is the only way to go.
Hence, it shouldn't matter if you are using a Samsung TV, LG or Sony TV or even something else. We have so much web technology that it would be a easy task to define a framework and every content producer could make its own website or application or whatever you what to call it and it would work nearly everywhere. Simply run this inside a virtual machine in your TV and even the most security concerns should be fixt as well. It's not magic, everything we need is already invited and it would be quite easy to get going.
The real reason why companies try to force you using apps is that they what to stay the gate keeper, They what to control which content you can see and what content providers are allowed to deliver to you. Do you remember the times of Compuserve, America Online or MSN? It's the same problem had the days back than and the costumer must stand up and demand more. More freedom, more choice and more independent. That's my words!
Agreed!
I literally made me tv a dumb tv and just left the Apple TV to do the rest. I really hate smart tvs
I would be quite happy with a ‘dumb’ tv that I can plug my streaming box of choice into. I have an LG C1 and WebOS is painfully slow on it, to the point that it’s just annoying. Also, apps crash regularly and the interface is an ad-laden mess. Plugging in an Apple TV makes the user experience a hell of a lot better for me, plus I have a bunch of apps available that are not available in LG’s App Store. The C1 is not a cheap tv so this is just not acceptable in my view.