I really like Samsung, but the ads make the UI laggy and ultimately make me want to buy other brands. My Q90T is great, but I would much rather have a 65” 240hz monitor with VRR.
Ads opens up the whole can of worms of mentioning something among friends with your phone or smart speaker or whatever near by and getting ads for that thing soon after. The proliferation of joint sales of casting services is another, so browsing say a fire stick and finding a movie or show only to learn its through another streaming platform I don’t subscribe to is annoying. I don’t know how to fix this because it is all joint agreements to protect each vendors catalog and revenue stream. It was better or at least so much easier when Netflix was really the only game in town and everything was there.
Good call Caleb! A big reason I personally just have the external Google tv...I don't like the association/linkage of your Samsung/Prime (Amazon TV) accounts to the tv for a more intrusive approach disguised as personalization. Some of the intrusion is unavoidable but it's getting a bit too much
THIS!!!!! I WANT THIS TOO!!!! I have a Pioneer ATMOS home theater and an Xbox Series X....I don't want built in Smart hub or speakers!!!! Just a single HDMI input I can run from my AVR because everything I own plugs into it!!!
I find myself using my 5 year old "dumb" 50" TV running off a Win-10 Intel NUC much more than my far newer 70" Hisense smart TV. It's just so much cleaner, more versatile and any content is still easily available. I feel far more in control.
I got a Sony that has the Pro Mode option back in 2018, the first thing I did was boot it into pro mode with only the basic features. The second thing I did was get rid of the microphone remote and replaced it with a universal. Even if a hacker got into the TV they would not be able to listen to my and my family that way. Google phones and devices used to log short recordings anytime the Google assitant was triggered even accidently and the recordings could be found (the entire history in mp3) in your Google account settings. Not sure its that way anymore but I don't trust that there could be activations and its stored on the TV and oops from Google updates that cause similar issues in future. I use a HTPC for all my apps and streaming. At least that is a full firewall and security and I feel much better. I think most modern TVs also never shut off fully so they are available 24/7 to hackers in standby state. With my Sony if I unplug it from the wall and plug it back in it goes through a full boot and you see Android TV on he screen during that. When just using the remote to shut off and on, it never boots, just turns on the screen.
@@DrBernon Not surprised. With smart appliances and cars using Google services on the rise, they will learn your habits, where you go and when, what you cook for dinner and how old the food is in your fridge. AI will have all that knowledge eventually. Home Depot just started DRM using bluetooth in power tools to apparently deter theft lol. That is the first step, next will be using an app every time you use a tool. AI will learn all those habits and tool performance metrics as that catches on in the industry.
As a smart home systems integrator for 20 years we have always recommended external smart devices like Nvidia shields or Apple TV’s. 1. They allow easy upgrades separate from the tv. 2. They are typically better performing. 3. They allow IP control from Control4 or savant control systems. 4. They are more secure. 5. They allow us to create a standard interface across multiple tv models throughout a home. (LG vs Samsung vs projector….oh yeah you forgot projectors) 6. If an Apple TV breaks, it’s easily replaceable. 7. Centralizing sources like a streaming device allows us to share them throughout the house using video distribution. So…please give us a dumb option with ultra high end visuals and super reliable IP control (or RS232) And while we are at it…remove premium sound options. We can take care of audio externally just like the “smart tv” functions. Great video👍
i agree, i have apple tvs on all my tvs, but the only thing is it's inconsistent to airplay pornhub from a macbook, and i cant airplay pornhub while playing music through apple tv to homepods.
Been feeling like this for years. I always add a set top box (Smart Device). I'd prefer a "Dummy TV" option. Only need online connectivity for updates.
I totally agree with a universal implementation similar to Sony’s basic mode. Bottom line is that TV’s should 100% be usable with or without an internet connection. I’d go a step further and add a physical switch to the IO to turn off the wifi antennas like some routers do. Especially now that TV manufacturers are pushing add/suggestions/services on 50%+ of our Home Screen real estate. Speaking of, I’d like to see more options to customize home screens just like tablets/phones to completely remove unnecessary clutter. Many buy TVs for their elderly parents and I haven’t seen a single TV so far that does this well. Like I’m talking about truly simple that even a grandma can use without feeling intimidated or stupid (as they all say they do). So absolutely there’s areas for improvement.
@@wrzl1675 of course that’s true. But you would still need to learn 2 OS at least for navigation and 2 remotes for when accessing the tv menu is required. What I meant with my comment was a basic mode that is tailored more to seniors. I install TV’s for a living (you can guess where) and 8/10 times when it’s a senior person they absolutely need just the basics. LG web OS is the absolute worst for that kind of stuff. I have THOUSANDS of installations under my belt and I’m telling you man the “smarter” the TVs get the dumber they make seniors feel. Or people with mental handicap, etc…there are areas of improvement on simplicity
why does a slow OS kill it for you? No one uses that shit anyways when externals are 10x better and NOT expensive at all. I literally bought TWO Vizio P Series BECAUSE their UI sucked but the value on the rest of the unit was FANTASTIC. So THANKS for smack talking Vizio and getting them to drop their price for me. LUL
Here's a way we could improve smart TVs: give them a lobotomy. Going back to dumb TVs would solve all of this. Let the display be nothing but a display, and handle the intelligence externally with a low-cost device (Google TV, Apple TV, PC) that can be replaced as needed to keep pace with newer more demanding software. I hate the idea of being pushed out of using a high quality display because its software has gone to heck. I'm still using my sony XBR8 from 2009 and it is 100% as functional as the day I bought it because the software has never been updated. Planned obsolescence is the only reason for smart TVs, and we all know it. Improving the security flaws will not change that.
I think it's really wrong that if you want the optical settings and everything your to TV can do, you have to allow the manufacturer to access your data. That should be illegal.
Thank you so much for talking about the Privacy and security problems on these devices. TVs, Soundbars, etc. should all have a physical hardware switches to turn off all microphones/cameras.
This was a nice change of pace from the usual spec and product review front. Some "TV theory". Would like to see more stuff like this Caleb. Good stuff 👍
I have always thought that making TVs "smart" was a pointless, expensive gimmick. An accurate image and product reliability are all I really need from my TV. If I want better sound I can add a good soundbar or a home theater system. If I want a "smart" interface I can choose from a wide variety of electronic devices that I can connect to my TV. As others have said here, the only intelligence my TV needs is the ability to receive firmware updates that improve basic performance. I also have no interest in smart appliances. Our electric utility recently had a power interruption that burned out the circuit board of my sister's new refrigerator, an $800 repair. My "stupid" refrigerator remained in perfect condition.
Smart everything is coming. It's more important for companies to gather big data like John Deere did, corner the market and take advantage as much as possible. Also they build a detailed profile of you and can target content and ads very effectively. Soon companies will know what food you have in your fridge and when and where you bought it, what brands and when you cook it. Maybe when things get really crazy that info will be accessed by insurance companies and you'll pay more for coverage if considered unhealthy eating all the time! That is one simple example of thousands that is coming in the long term future I think with smart products.
2 года назад
Smart TVs make some sense when it comes to various functionality that they just make easier. I mostly watch RUclips on my TV. I stream local video content over the air via its built in media server. I often use it with my bluetooth headphones when my wife is remote working and needs silence. I would need a separate device for all of this if it was just a dumb screen.
"the only intelligence my TV needs is the ability to receive firmware updates that improve basic performance." And it should only need that if it literally outlives the current broadcast standard.
@@gags730 🍷Besides whatever happened to curved screens? Don't hear much about them these days. The obvious thing I hate are the widescreen ratio options that always leave me wanting for more vertical height no matter how big the TV screen is. Never quite satisfies the true theater screening experience, something just never felt right with modern Tv screen ratios in general.
Words can't express my appreciation for this video. Consumer rights and our responsibility when it comes to understanding our tech is overlooked and ignored by so many every day. As a tech enthusiast, and a technician working in related fields, I can't tell you how frustrating the ignorance and lack of education on this matter is. I refer to "Smart" devices as DUMB devices every single day at work. However, the people that buy into a product at a basement level price, who expect top-tier performance, should also be held accountable. Manufacturers need to be held to higher standards. Longer warranties, less or no extensive agreements upon setup, and choice in level of features should be mandated. If our government won't do it, either because of a lack of ability to because of too many pitchforks, we need to demand it as consumers. The IoT and smart features are making everything worse, more than they are making things convenient and easy. And we could all do well with more homework before spending our hard earned money on devices.
All smart TVs should come with a slot in the back where you can replace the "smart" hardware for up-grade components or the OS of your choosing... like the raspberry pi.
Huge issue. Thanks for bringing it up. I’d like an option on my LG to just let Apple TV take over as the main OS. Modular TVOS computer modules that are upgradeable would be nice.
Caleb, you bring up a very valid point. I will even say it is a major one for the elderly who are not as tech savvy as most of your viewers are. For them, a Smart TV is a nightmare. Where are the days when you just pressed the On/Off button and rotated the dual to the desired channel? That sort of simplicity is what is missing
I set up a TCL set not long ago, for an older couple. The included Google TV thing is totally disastrous for simple TV watching, there seems no way to just have the TV turn on and go direct to broadcast TV, instead you have to run an 'app' for TV. So frustrating for these guys, and I'd imagine most other regular folks too.
@@zybch I ran into the same thing setting up for an older person and the Google TV screen was overwhelming for them. They thought they could watch everything there and didn't understand those were only links to shows Google believes they would be interested in and they may not own them. Turned it Google TV to App Only but it is still an exercise to just get the FIOS cable to work properly. Sorry I have to run because the phone is ringing for TV support. And I thought the days of the VCR having be on Channel 3 or 4 were tough to explain.
This is my problem. My elderly mother hates cell phones and prefers an old fashion house phone, which I am glad that I can still set up. Her "dumb" TV broke after 20 years of use and nearly all the stores around me are selling nothing but "smart" TV's and she hates them. I have to now go out of my way to Best Buy which has the only dumb TV in town so she has something simple to work with. Unfortunately, most other people I know have smart TV's and they love them, so I think this trend will continue until the software updates stop and they are forced to get another TV, which will become a burden on most families.
When I first saw 'smart TVs' appearing, I thought they were a bit of a gimmick. Then suddenly every 'TV' is now a 'Smart TV'. Heck, I'd say that the streaming contracts and advertising deals 'TV manufacturers' have these days are an essential part of their business plan by now. Smart TVs are also why I'm not remotely interested in TVs these days. If I'll want a big screen at some point, I'll get a Large Format Gaming Monitor, as they're called instead. They're now the 'dumb TVs', it would seem. That said, they have all the features a regular ol' TV used to have, like a screen, and inputs and a remote control. Maybe not a tuner, but heck, who still watches TV these days? :) I feel that hooking up an HTPC of some description (even an old laptop or desktop PC) is in so many ways superior to the 'Smart TV' experience. Not only do you get to stream from the same 'apps' as with a 'Smart TV', but you also control the hardware, the OS and its updates. Leaving that to some random manufacturer would seem... unwise, to put it mildly. Plus you can also play games and other things on this HTPC, using your own Steam or GoG library or DOSBox or whatever. So much better than one of those dumb 'Smart TVs', if you ask me.
@@LarsonChristopher Projectors keep getting 'smarts' added too these days. And that's when you even have a setup that lends itself to using a projector.
"who still watches TV these days?" me sometimes, but less each year, mostly live news and also it feels more real-time less lonely for some reason. My elderly mother only watches TV never anything streaming. If there is an update or if mom presses a wrong button and a menu pops up she has to call me to ask how to get out of it.
"who still watches TV these days?" Let me stop you right there. If that is the case, then you probably have another huge problem: no quality public tv.
I think a small but well written law would help a lot. Something like "manufacturers have to provide security updates for at least 10 years after the customers purchase and release those not later than the updates for their newest or highest-end products".
Or better yet.....have all features advertised work, regardless of software version, and implement real warranties. Like, 5 years minimum! We shouldn't need 3-4 updates for our 4k120hz or Dolby Atmos support to work. Either the TV has it, or it doesn't.
@@BoondockSaintRyan I couldn't agree more. That's why you always buy a TV based on what's available the moment you take it out of the box instead of waiting on future firmware updates.
I'm a 3rd party vendor w/ a TV manufacturer selling their TVs in a major retailer on the weekends. This is something I mention to folks often when they start asking questions about it. Some people think that they need a new TV when all they need to do is plug in a Roku or Firestick.
I've never used a TV's apps for content. Anything I watch I do it through a device. Same goes for speakers. I never use the TV speakers, no matter how good they are, because even the best TV speakers can't really match an affordable soundbar. I'm looking to buy a new one in the next year or so, and the only thing I really care about is: does it have HDMI 2.1, eArc, and all the HDR formats, 120Hz. Everything else doesn't matter. If you could strip away all that extra stuff, would that reduce the cost of the TV? As far as software, I'd rather have some ability for the TV to self calibrate using my phone's camera or some such rather than run Netflix.
I Absolutely agree! I'm so glad this topic was brought up. Ever since smart TVs became widespread, I have been saying I would much rather buy a regular tv and use a streaming device.
Features I like to see on all TVs: 1. One touch switch between cable and streaming services. 2. LG like pointer interface 3. Apple tv/Google tv like interface where I can search a title across all streaming services. 4. A single place to keep my watch list. 5. Decent in-built speakers
Someone finally mentioned internal speakers. I think this is important, why should I have to go out and buy a sound bar when they can create a decent sound. However now I am see the return of decent sound on Tv, Sony got their acoustic surface audio and Samsung in 2022 will be coming out with Dolby Atmos on the internal speakers.
Bought my smart tv around 2017, screen is great however after time the apps such as Netflix and RUclips became very slow as the hardware hasn’t kept up with software, plus Disney plus doesn’t work on it so it was supposed to be a new tv £600 but then I discovered a fire stick for £15 runs everything perfect, be careful as I nearly threw away a perfectly good tv
I dont even plug my tv into the internet. I use a roku box for streaming. Maybe its better these days, but the built in aps always felt slower and more clunky than something dedicated to streaming.
Absolutely spot on. I was just beating my head against a wall because I couldn't get my mom's "smart" Samsung TV to download the Disney+ app. A few RUclips videos later I realized that even though it's a 2015 UHD flat screen that works perfectly, it's too old to run Disney+ (womp, womp). Thanks to one of your other videos we are bypassing the TV's dated OS and purchasing a new Apple TV box that does have the hardware and software to run Disney+.
Thanks for calling attention to this massive annoyance. I see the corporate lock in to content providers and their various Destructive Restriction Mechanisms (DRM) as the core of the problem. I've recently searched extensively for an "intellegent" TV (as opposed to Smart TV) and they are nowhere to be found -- apparently the content provider subsidies and licensing deals provide too much profiteering incentive. Separation between content providers and content carriers, e.g. Net Neutrality and passive delivery devices, is a necessity for resolving this expanding disease of privacy invasion and consumer abuse.
Thanks Caleb , I was just talking about this all week . I purchased a new Sony X91J 85" TV for my dedicated home theater and it has been a total nightmare !!! I have a full 7.3.4 Atmos set up consisting of , Denon AVR-X3700H + Denon POA-8300 three chan. power amp (powering the front stage)with a Sony BD-X800 M2 Blue Ray player and a brand new Fire TV Max and it is controlled with a Harmony Elite remote , and every time it turn on the system the TV decides to pick what source I am using !?!?! The remote tells it to use HDMI 4 input but it sees the fire stick and the Blue Ray player and usually picks the player instead of the Fire TV !!!! I just need this TV to be a video display and nothing more , just give me the best picture it can produce and the rest of my system will do the rest!!!! I do not understand why these TV manufacturers don't have a way to simply turn off the smart/stupid TV functions , or better yet offer the same TV as a video display only , call it Theater View -no smart features and no speakers etc . We pay for all this stuff we don't need and it just makes setting up a home theater 10x harder !!!!! Love your show and the stuff you cover !!!!!!
i had a vizio when smart tvs were a new thing. the smarts crapped out in about 3 years, but the tv still works. most apps literally cant run on it anymore because they updated out of the tvs abilities. the display still works fine
Exact problem. Smart TV apps no longer run even with a good internet connection. Regular TV works ok MOST of the time but lately the screen has been randomly turning off, with sound still working. Needs to be rebooted to work again. Smart BS is making TVs slow and less reliable.
We do not use any built in apps. We watch all our content on Apple TV because it tracks what we are watching accross all apps, has no adds, and works well with our other apple devices.
Thank you so much for bringing this up! I subscribed to this channel initially for reviews of TVs that I can never buy. But this time you really open my eyes to something much more important and serious. I believe it is a great service to many casual tech users who are yet to understand what it means for TVs, or even a lot more appliances, going 'smart'. The update issue that forces ppl to retire their TVs, the security and privacy issues. A lot more things must be done to address the issues. I think both the consumers and the law makers would need to act, so as to ensure that we do not fall into some sort of techno-dystopia.
Good Points. I, for one can not understand why anyone would allow an Amazon Ecco or similar device into their private domain. Convenience? Well, kind of but I wish people would understand the true cost of the privacy given up and the enduring data dossier detailing your private life.
I couldn’t agree more. I bought a vizio tv a year or so ago, and while the picture is great, the software experience is awful. It’s not even that smart cast is slow (which it is) or has limited apps and no App Store, but the actual tv software itself is super buggy. It sometimes doesn’t turn on or locks up the remote, and will require unplugging/plugging back in or a full reset every month. And yeah that’s not that huge a deal to do, but i bought a product expecting it to work reasonably and reliably, I shouldn’t have to reset everything except maybe once a year just to freshen things up. I bought an Apple TV and the experience is light years ahead of whatever chipset they use in the television and I’ll never use a smart tv OS again.
I have a 65" Vizio that won't even connect to the streaming apps anymore. My internet connection is fine and it says it's connected on the TV. But the Vizio apps will simply not run saying it can't connect to the internet. The screen also randomly turns off watching regular TV, even though the sound is still working. All this built-in smart tech is making TVs less reliable.
Smart TV's have never been usable. I have always relied on an external streaming box, an external box can be replaced when something better comes out for not much money. I believe smarts should be removed altogether. As Elon Musk says, the best part is no part. Streaming boxes are hidden behind the TV anyway. One solution would be to have a user replaceable module so the smart system can be upgraded (or removed).
LG turning webOS’s clean ribbon into a full screen spread with ads and apps from different ecosystems is one of the worst unforced errors a television maker has ever made. And this clown actually championed it.
100% - One big frustration is those TOS contracts. I can't use half of the products and services out there these days because I do read them, and they're not acceptable. It says a lot that the click wrap software never has the option to decline the TOS. It's designed as a hoop to jump through, not a decision that people will really make (Do you accept the TOS, Yes or Yes). Another is feature changes are forced, bundled with necessary bug fixes, or can't be rolled back. Consumers deserve the right to the software, hardware, and services that were in place at the time they purchased the product. If I buy a $1000 TV, no-one should be able to change the features of that product without my permission. If I can't choose to use software and services that were in place when I made my purchasing decisions, I should have the option to return the product for a full refund of the hardware and unused service fees. Google and Sony lost me as a future customer with exactly that sort of nonsense when they added advertisements to my expensive Bravia TV home screen 3 years after I purchased it. They even added a special flag so, while it appears in the list of home screen features, it can't be turned off (unlike all of the other home screen features). Google is doing many other things that discourage me from using its other products too, like nasty contracts on some of their services and apps, and updates on my expensive Chromebook that are making what was a powerful and snappy product into something that's slow, runs hot, and has a terrible battery life.
Just got my first "smart" TV a couple months ago and have never connected it to the internet or used the built-in apps. It really blows my mind that there are no options anymore for a TV without all that bs. From the research I did, it seems that most of the problems TVs have nowadays are caused by the OS, apps, and firmware updates bricking them. This is why I stuck with my previous 10+ year old 720p TV 'til the wheels fell off.
@@Ben-Rogue I had an expensive 1440p 165Hz Gsync monitor and it looked like garbage. Really hard on my eyes and I got tired of always being confined to a desk. Monitor features are really lacking when compared to TVs too.
I use mostly the native apps on my TVs. I use my console for crunchy roll and yeah the LG not having HBO max was irritating for a while. The common user may not have the luxury of overlap of having a smart tv, 2 next gen consoles and maybe an external streaming device. I agree with the issues brought up in this video.
So funny my older Samsung didn't have some of the Apps like HBOMax, Disney+, and others available. I purchased and set up a Fire Cube to have access to those apps and some others. You can do the same thing with a gaming console but I don't have a console on every TV. .
The portability of a desktop gaming rig... The privacy and security concerns of a smartphone... The user interface of a Gameboy Advance... The business model of a sketchy social media company... The startup speed of a coal-fired power plant... The reliability of 90s-era dial-up Internet downloads... It's THE SMART TV! Our next TV is going to be a computer monitor.
Just get rid of all the bloatware! (sorry, I mean ''apps''). - Cheaper TVs - More stable - Better privacy If you REALLY want these stuff, then get yourself a laptop an an extra HDMI cable.
@@Stars-Mine I think with or without the smart features the price will be the same. They use these smart feature to generate more profit. So basically they are advertising to us.
I just had that conversation 2 weeks ago. I would love to have a "dumb" TV with no smartfeatures at all besides Software updates and of corse image enhancments and add my own streaming device. This way I could have the OS that I want with the TV that I want without having it be slowed down by heavy software and could just upgrade the streaming device if I felt like I need an upgrade.
@@LarsonChristopher I mean from what I see they are double the price of an similar non pro model. If money would not be an issue than I would just upgrade the TV every year. But thanks fot he suggestion non the less
@@maximm.6969 if we even ever get a dumb tv, they are going to be MORE expensive than smart tv's. Why? Because tv's are subsidized by their contracts with streaming platforms. I would suggest to just get a tv that would go directly to hdmi ( most tv's), and plug your streaming device as you would like to.
My first smart TV was my Samsung smart TV in the living room... ran it as-is for about a year then bought a cheap FireTV for the kids room... realized the FireTV had a better setup than Samsung did... So I bought a FireCube for my living room and now I bypass the Samsung "smart" features all-together... after that experience I upgraded my own bedroom TV and just bought a DUMB TV (no smart features at all) and plugged in a FireCube for it. They really should just go back to selling dumb TVs that are high quality otherwise... let people plug-in their Firesticks, AppleTV, Roku, NvidiaShield, etc and let the consumer choose what interface they want to use. That way if something becomes "out of date" its the plug-in device, not the expensive TV.
For me biggest issues are: 1.reliability( this new Tvs after 2 max years getting glitchy, staggering, burnt outs and they are ready for bin) -lack of efficiency 2. Security/Privacy- you are getting maybe 2 years update, in first year maybe 3 updates, in second year 1 or 2 updates and that's it 3.ads -Oh my God, what to say about that?! Tvs can't follow with bad and weak CPUs and GPUs. It's getting overwhelmed with so many features plus ads. This is getting a bigger issue, cuz people are more and more using tvs as their monitor for gaming, work and meetings and that is okey, once you try flagship TV, example gaming, you don't want anything else. The question is: How fast will TVs become main things for everything in households. When TVs become majority for work gaming, work and meetings that is the Day when competition will have to pleasure our need for efficency, reliability and satisfaction not for 2 years, but at least for 5 years. Great content and awareness as always! Keep going Caleb, great shirt BTW! 😀
@@SaifDia so I bought the Sony A80J OLED. I have it setup with all wireless Sonos speakers. The Soundbar, the surrounds and the Sub. I have no streaming device. I use the remote that came with the TV to control everything. It’s been SO nice to have one remote for everything. The streaming through the TV has been very smooth.
Not really a bad experience exactly but both my smart tvs (from like 2015-2017) are worse then using a console or computer when it comes to apps and I don't appreciate the fact that I can't update them anymore (they're still decent picture quality so why get rid of them?). Ads are a big concern for me whenever I upgrade in the future as I don't really want to get blasted in the face with ads as soon as I hit power on the remote. Security is also a issue as I don't need a device that's a liability in my own home. It's kind of to the point where I'm actually thinking about getting a apple tv (so I can do airplay as well as have a decent experience on netflix). Also hdr is kind of a big issue too; One of my tv was advertised as having hdr10 only to find out that the peak brightness is 400 nit and it only really does "hdr" by accepting a hdr signal (and looks worse then sdr due to no wide color gamut and low peak brightness). We need a tighter standard on HDR instead of this wishy washy "is it really hdr" game that I'm currently trying to play with on buying a second monitor eventually.
Exactly right. My 91-year-old father cannot even operate his "smart" TV without help. His Samsung TV stopped supporting RUclips after only a couple of years. This is outrageous, IMHO. A superior solution would be a dumb TV with an external box (FireTV/Roku/Google-doohickey). That way the box can be upgraded for $30-50 without disturbing the rest of the TV. Regarding security, the current success rate of hackers makes it foolhardy to even have features like a camera on the TV. Remove any junk that can be turned against the user. Just don't have it. And Chinese manufacturers? Ugh... HiSense and TCL have some incredibly good values, but they have been caught embedding back doors in hardware for years. I think we have to assume that any TV made in China is a security risk.
I really like how Benq has been handling this, by shipping a separate streaming stick along with their projectors. You don't have to install it if you don't want it
I use an Xbox Series X, and actually keep the wifi turned off on the TV unless I'm using specific apps or updating it. No use hogging more wifi needlessly.
This is fantastic! I've often thought about this very topic following the FBI's bulletin. Myself I prefer to keep my applications on all platforms (PC, smartphone, TV, streaming device) to a minimum to minimize security risks. I think you have to approach this from a few angles. 1) TV operating systems should have to meet a minimum security standard; 2) Our home networks need to have active monitoring to detect and address unusual activity from connected devices; 3) TV OS platforms need to agree to support a TV operating system and SoC for a minimum of seven years from date of purchase; 4) Any external streaming device needs to maintain backwards connectivity compatibility for TV inputs for the previous ten years of HDMI (or whatever else arises) standards; 5) TV manufacturers need to offer free scanning tools to check TVs for malware; 6) TV manufacturer application listings need to ensure that any and all applications are vetted such as those on Google Play or the Apple App Store.
I just got a smart TV for the first time last December and have since left it disconnected from the internet so I don’t have to see ads/suggestions every time I turn it on. Yet somehow they find a way to bug you with an annoying “Set up your TV now!” banner that never goes away
I love how manufacturers have to include these features to sell their product but don’t give the option to disable them unless you turn Everything off. Obviously you can’t include an option because it would make people think there is an underlying reason why they need to (harming brand image) but it’s almost a necessity in 3-4 years when the interface is too sluggish to be usable. I’m honestly just thankful that AirPlay/Display Mirroring is found on most brands and can be used without connecting to the internet.
Making the hardware more open for alternative firmware might be an option, like Cyanogen firmware keeps android phones alive a lot longer than the manufacturers
I have a 2017 Sony X900E 65" (X90E in other regions) and I use the built-in apps, though I sometimes feel like buying an Apple TV as the Sony doesn't use a BT remote and it sometimes lags. Otherwise, it works more than fine enough for me (4K HDR (no Vision but yes Atmos) still looks amazing and you can force 1440p 120Hz for gaming, though no adaptive sync). The TV has been updated to Android 9 and its last security update was March 5, 2021. Overall, it's fine for casual use and movie watching. Prefer it over my 2019 Samsung QLED as Android TV/Google TV is still, in my opinion, the superior TV OS. Also, for Sony TV's, they do have a "Basic TV" mode which fully disables all the smart functionality if you want to use a streaming box/stick. Once the TV starts getting really slow/laggy or outdated, I'm just going to keep using it with an Apple TV or Google TV (if they add AirPlay support to it).
Yes! Thank you for talking about this topic, 2020 & 2021 Samsung TVs are so frustrating with their connectivity issues and the low cpu performance. most definitely NOT smart TV
None of the issues that have been found with Smart TV's so far weren't anything that wasn't predicted from day one. I've got a very early Samsung "Smart TV" that I was given by my Aunt. At the time it was a range topping TV and years later it's completely useless with it's Smart features that haven't been removed. The big problem is the manufacturers don't have incentives to support the TV's for longer than 3 years or create apps for new streaming services. Adding apps doesn't sell new TV's, creating updates only costs money for them too. A external streaming box is always going to be better. Once it's finished support wise just replace it cheaply. My main living room Samsung TV never got Disney+ (it was 1 year too old) and it doesn't bother me because the picture is good enough and my AppleTV does everything I want and typically has any new streaming service app well before a Smart TV does. After Samsung experimented with showing their own ads over the apps on their TV's I don't even connect my Smart TV's to the network any more.
I’ve been running my CX with all the WebOS features turned off. Just have my game consoles plugged in and an Apple TV for streaming (which handles privacy much better than LG). All I really need from the tv is good picture quality and constant firmware support, which it has delivered just fine.
Awesome and much needed content! Apple TVs interface is best among all. I use built in OS in my Samsung Frame tv since I don't want to spent more after buying an expensive TV. Features I like to see on all TVs: 1. One touch switch between cable and streaming services. 2. LG like pointer interface 3. Apple tv/Google tv like interface where I can search a title across all streaming services. 4. A single place to keep my watch list. 5. Decent in-built speakers
If I could get a great TV that is "dumb", I'd get it. All my "smart" features can be handled by my Nvidia Shield which can run circles around any smart TV. My current 55" TV is about 10 years old and no apps will run on it any more. The smart feature is completely dead, but the TV still looks amazing. Best thing about an external device is, it's a lot easier to replace when it stops working.
I've been saying since the beginning of the "smart TV" that it's a dumb idea. The main reason why these manufactures want them installed is rather simple 1. They want you to buy a new TV like a cell phone (one to two years) by making sure that it's not upgradeable in 1-2 years 2. They harvest your data (even if you opt out) to make more profit, and/or get their money back if their selling them at a loss hardware wise. 3. They have more control of how you use your set, or even be able to fix/setup your TV. 4. ADs that don't even need to be explained in detail & falls into the third reason. I've always recommended to people to look for a TV without the smart features if your going over 32 inches even if it's a older model, getting a PC monitor if it's 32 inches or lower with a good small soundbar/PC Speakers , or going for a cheap 1080p~4K projector. Then you can hook up any external streaming, HDTV Tuner, and/or a cheap HTPC. Android/Google TV boxes become obsolete within 1-2 years so it's best to save money, and throw away a small device creating as little E-Waste as possible rather than a huge TV while wasting hundreds of dollars. The smartest way is a cheap SFF PC they'll last for up to ten plus years without the need to upgrade anything except software and can run Android X86 for those that want to use apps instead of a browser. Then connect a small stereo receiver with decent speakers to the onboard sound for a better sound than most commercial sound bars.
Dude, all good points. One that has just bugged the heck out of me is that damn handshake between devices like your TV and soundbar, i.e. CEC. Weird that there is one standard to rule them all.
This was a big reason why I went for the A80J. The Basic TV setup option in it is great (although not perfect). I have an AppleTV and use it exclusively. The only time I get into the “smart” side of the TV is for a firmware update. The UI design on all Smart TV’s are horrible, SOC’s are lacking, and networking speeds are way to low. I’d be happier if they ditched the Smarts (and the speakers) in lieu of higher quality thinner panels at the same prices points (more margin for them) or reduced prices.
Back in 2014 when I made the jump from CRT to flat. I was watching the performance bencmark videos playing on the TVs at electronics store. The store staff came on to me and I said I want something with good picture quality, but no internet or any extra apps that add to the prize. He told me that all the good quality screens come with smarts... I didn't want to pay for features that are totally unneccessary, so I ended up buying my friends old 2009 Panasonic high-end plasma TV for 200e. Still using it. It's connected to my desktop computer when I want to watch streams online.
I was starting to think to myself that TVs are getting too smart for their own good. I shouldn't have to waste time disabling or disagreeing to pages of stuff I don't want or intend to use. Plus all the privacy issues I have with most devices and software in general. I just want a 40" display with speakers and get OTA antenna capabilities. For the most part if I want a "smart" TV, I can connect my computer up and have way more smart than any TV could ever dream of offering.
I totally agree. I ended up just buying a Fire TV Stick for my expensive LG GX because I couldn't get all of the streaming services that I wanted to use. Yeah, I can now get HBO Max, but I still can't get Rakuten Viki. I'm in the process of removing/deregistering all of my streaming services on my LG since I don't even use them.
I couldn't agree with you more. I bought a premium Sony TV, the best for the year it came out, (paid loads of £££ as well), only to find that no updates are coming out and the CPU dealing with the Smart features, soon became too slow. Given the thousands of £ paid, it's deplorable that very quickly we had to get a streaming stick instead. Surely, ensuring that the smart aspects of a TV are kept up-to-date for maaaany years, must be the norm. 👍🏼
Connect it to the internet with a cable, helps a bit versus the WiFi that is not so responsive in general. Also if you don't log into LG, top row of "support apps" won't load/work and it will be a little quicker, but it will bother you to login to install apps from the store...
@@H3llb0und Yeah, definitely depends on how you use it. I do typically use it for Netflix and RUclips, so it's not that big of a deal considering there's a dedicated Netflix button and I usually cast content to RUclips anyway
The problem with smart TVs is that they’re only up to date when you buy them as soon as a new model comes out they’re forgotten, looking at you LG, I bought the LG C9 when it was the latest model back in 2019, then LG introduced the CX with a new UI and that UI never made it to the C9, that doesn’t happen with the Apple TV 4K I have connected to it, my Apple TV went from tvOS 14 to 15 and now all the sudden I have new features and can install the latest streaming apps without waiting for LG to add them to the store whenever they feel like it.
By refusing to connect my TV to WiFi and just using a Chromecast instead, I feel safer buying a Chinese brand TV like TCL which has good specs for a budget price.
I really would rather get a monitor (no smarts) and save some money. You will always get better app support on a streaming box. And you get to pick which one you want. Apple guy? Get Apple TV. Amazon person? Get a Fire TV. Google person? Get a Chromecast. Take out the apps & lower the price by $100 or so, and I can spend the difference on the streaming box of my choice. You are spot-on with this video.
Awesome video, I agree 100% with everything you said! A TV should be as sustainable as possible. Some trends are already good: 1. People are buying streaming sticks for handling most of their smart TV needs. 2. There's consolidation happening on the platform market: Android TV and Roku are being adopted by more and more manufacturers, so with less operating systems on the market and more market share for each, there's more motivation to keep them updated and secure. But the current state of those systems is not nearly there yet, so that's where we need to see improvement happening. I just bought a Panasonic JZW2004, because it's very solid hardware, it has a snappy, responsive operating system, and it's one of the few options that are also great for linear TV. Also, there's no user account needed to access apps, and there are not a lot of ads. And I hope that being a premium TV, it'll be supported for a long time. As soon as it doesn't receive updates anymore, switching to a streaming stick will be easy. Time will tell if I made the right decision. If I'd had more cash, I'd go for a small German company: Metz. They build premium hardware and have a minimal, streamlined approach to software. There's no app store, no ads, just HbbTV and a browser. And it does linear TV really well (something that's getting less and less important for most companies). For anything streaming, they tell you to use something like a Fire TV stick, and their remote will seamlessly work with it. If I had less money to spend, I'd probably go for a snappy, minimal system again, like Roku or Vidaa U, and as soon as the OS doesn't get any updates anymore, I'd switch to using a streaming stick for all things related to internet/streaming, and reset the TV and cut any internet connection from it, effectively making it a dumb TV. So why not Android TV when I first said I like that it's getting more and more market share? With limited and quickly aging hardware in a TV, it's just too sluggish most of the time, and I think that inside of a TV it's just trying to do too much. However, I think it's an awesome OS for a streaming stick that you can replace every couple of years.
I love my Sharp / ROKU TV, I put my old Sharp TV in the living room. My old Sharp’s Smart TV App is very lame, and my wife wanted the same functionality as my Sharp / ROKU TV, so got the standard hockey puck ROKU device and installed it. That was more of a patch than a fix for the TV, and needed both remotes to get anything done. Then I saw that one of the HDMI ports was also an “ARC” port. I found the ROKU Sound Bar also supported “ARC”. The “ARC” interfaced the ROKU remote into the TV. The interface in the living room was now almost exactly the same as that of the Sharp / ROKU TV in the bedroom. To make a long story short I agree with you how Smart TVs are a mess, but if we could keep the “ARC” interface in all TVs fixing security flaws could be as simple as replacing the appliance connected to the HDMI input port.
For my TV... I turned off all the internet accessibility and basically just made it a monitor. Broadcast reception only and connected devices (game console or PC). I'll control what I can from a connected device.
One of the worst things companies do is to close down the whole app market they created. I had this happen with one of my older Sony's and after 2 years of usage, they just shutdown the whole app market and only the apps with a shortcut on the remote control were active. Even those stopped getting updates.
I bought a Vizio TV 3 years ago, bought it at Walmart and who incidentally closed one month later. I was told this TV will do anything, I'm a truck driver so I did not need cable I wanted the antenna TV. The TV was about 13 or 14 hundred dollars. I hooked it up and no picture would come in. Come to find out it doesn't even have a tuner in it, so in the last 3 years I've had to buy three tuners from Best buy, all three tuners burnout exactly one year later I bought all 3 in May of 2022 2023 2024, they're selling these sets as TVs, but if the TV doesn't have a tuner. I don't believe it's a TV. It's a monitor. Beware stay away from Vizio.
We just got a 65" C1 and I mentioned how we'd never use the TV apps because we always have the Xbox hooked up but sometimes you don't feel like turning that thing on. I've used the built in streaming apps more in the last two weeks than I have for the rest of my life, it's just a convenience thing.
I have a smart TV, but I'm really considering getting a non-smart TV. I have 4 devices plugged into it a PS3, PS4, Cable box, and a Firestick that recently replaced a Roku device. The FireTV that basically do the same thing only better and in the case of the Firestick, much better. So in reality all that is needed is a really good display with a lot of HDMI connections and the ability to support external speaker systems and respond to commands like on/off and volume from an external device like a Firestick, Roku, etc. Would be very interested in a video on a setup that would accomplish this. Excellent video!
About 4 months ago we got a Sony X85J - not because it was smart, we wanted a slightly larger tv and this has ATSC - 3. We don't use the smart stuff - we use a Roku because we can set it at 720p - we have 6Mbs dsl and a low low data cap. If we ever get real broadband we'll probably try the built in Google tv - maybe? (I will add that the ATSC - 3 has required both our antennas and an amplifier - where we used to just use our big antenna - and there isn't anything more being broadcast than before - my husband's thinking was 'future proofed' - but as you pointed out we will only get so may updates. )
Very good video Caleb. The basic setup idea is a good one. There should always be a way to switch between inputs and picture functions without getting into the smart TV OS, and on some brands/models, maybe there already is. That being said, (without having done any research myself) I don't think it's very common that TV OS:s gets messed up. But as a fail safe, still being able to still use the TV in such a case is of course a plus. Cameras on TVs that can't easily be disconnected (physically) or have their lense covered is a very bad idea. Same goes for a microphones, although I think most TVs (up until now at least) that has one, has it built in to the remote control rather than on that actual TV. That will most likely change however, since more people tend to work from home now, and are more likely to use their TVs in multiple ways (voice in gaming, job meetings etc etc) where a microphone on the actual TV "could" become more useful. This is kind of basic stuff though, so I think most manufacturers are clever enough to figure this out. When it comes to ads I think it should be possible to turn them off completely. That being said, I am using both a Sony bravia and an LG Oled, and as of yet I can't really say I've had a problem with that, apart from annoying RUclips ads, but that's not really what we are talking about here. What bothers me more is going between the different remotes and different smart TV OS:es, it's a hassle. ;-) #welfareproblems
The thing that annoys me most is that smart TVs don't have actual profiles. Like on different apps you have different profiles and stuff but you can't do that on the tv. The worst part is that Samsung TVs have user profiles but they do NOTHING. WHY? and on Google tv they have it but only KIDS PROFILES!!! WHY???? WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT?????
I recently upgraded from my 55 inch Sony LED TV from 2010 to a 65" sony A80J. My old Sony tv stopped working with RUclips, Netflix and other apps about 2 years ago. The old tv was perfectly functional and still has a great picture. It just needs a streaming box like a fire stick or Roku box or something like that. It was very jarring to see how much info I needed to give Sony and Google and others in order to sign into the apps on my new Sony. I wish I could just sign in to the specific apps I want to use and didn't need a profile just to turn the tv on.
It just occurred to me that I didn’t even get into ads! Who else things we have a ton more ads coming at us on smart TVs?
I really like Samsung, but the ads make the UI laggy and ultimately make me want to buy other brands. My Q90T is great, but I would much rather have a 65” 240hz monitor with VRR.
Id tather not see these at all
Ads opens up the whole can of worms of mentioning something among friends with your phone or smart speaker or whatever near by and getting ads for that thing soon after. The proliferation of joint sales of casting services is another, so browsing say a fire stick and finding a movie or show only to learn its through another streaming platform I don’t subscribe to is annoying. I don’t know how to fix this because it is all joint agreements to protect each vendors catalog and revenue stream. It was better or at least so much easier when Netflix was really the only game in town and everything was there.
Like Roku overlaying its own ads on streaming content? Sadly It’s inevitable
Good call Caleb! A big reason I personally just have the external Google tv...I don't like the association/linkage of your Samsung/Prime (Amazon TV) accounts to the tv for a more intrusive approach disguised as personalization. Some of the intrusion is unavoidable but it's getting a bit too much
i would love a "monitor" option from companies, no smarts inside, even no speakers
^ THIS! Like I said on another comment.
Just give me the best panel possible and I choose what device I plug to it.
commercial displays! If you have a pretty penny
Gigabyte Aorus F048U 48" OLED lacks smart tv features
@@jpay show me a commercial display that is as good as a LG C1, I'll wait.
THIS!!!!! I WANT THIS TOO!!!! I have a Pioneer ATMOS home theater and an Xbox Series X....I don't want built in Smart hub or speakers!!!! Just a single HDMI input I can run from my AVR because everything I own plugs into it!!!
10 out of 10 need to bring back “dumb” TVs, or at least the option to disable the Smarts (like Sony).
I find myself using my 5 year old "dumb" 50" TV running off a Win-10 Intel NUC much more than my far newer 70" Hisense smart TV. It's just so much cleaner, more versatile and any content is still easily available. I feel far more in control.
I got a Sony that has the Pro Mode option back in 2018, the first thing I did was boot it into pro mode with only the basic features. The second thing I did was get rid of the microphone remote and replaced it with a universal. Even if a hacker got into the TV they would not be able to listen to my and my family that way. Google phones and devices used to log short recordings anytime the Google assitant was triggered even accidently and the recordings could be found (the entire history in mp3) in your Google account settings. Not sure its that way anymore but I don't trust that there could be activations and its stored on the TV and oops from Google updates that cause similar issues in future. I use a HTPC for all my apps and streaming. At least that is a full firewall and security and I feel much better. I think most modern TVs also never shut off fully so they are available 24/7 to hackers in standby state. With my Sony if I unplug it from the wall and plug it back in it goes through a full boot and you see Android TV on he screen during that. When just using the remote to shut off and on, it never boots, just turns on the screen.
@@practicalguy973 Of course it is still that way. They use those clips to train their AI.
@@DrBernon Not surprised. With smart appliances and cars using Google services on the rise, they will learn your habits, where you go and when, what you cook for dinner and how old the food is in your fridge. AI will have all that knowledge eventually. Home Depot just started DRM using bluetooth in power tools to apparently deter theft lol. That is the first step, next will be using an app every time you use a tool. AI will learn all those habits and tool performance metrics as that catches on in the industry.
Disabling (TV only mode) seems to be part of google TV (was Android TV) now. I have my doubts about how much gets disabled now. It was on my TCL TV.
As a smart home systems integrator for 20 years we have always recommended external smart devices like Nvidia shields or Apple TV’s.
1. They allow easy upgrades separate from the tv.
2. They are typically better performing.
3. They allow IP control from Control4 or savant control systems.
4. They are more secure.
5. They allow us to create a standard interface across multiple tv models throughout a home. (LG vs Samsung vs projector….oh yeah you forgot projectors)
6. If an Apple TV breaks, it’s easily replaceable.
7. Centralizing sources like a streaming device allows us to share them throughout the house using video distribution.
So…please give us a dumb option with ultra high end visuals and super reliable IP control (or RS232)
And while we are at it…remove premium sound options. We can take care of audio externally just like the “smart tv” functions.
Great video👍
i agree, i have apple tvs on all my tvs, but the only thing is it's inconsistent to airplay pornhub from a macbook, and i cant airplay pornhub while playing music through apple tv to homepods.
Why would anyone possibly need a "Smart" tv with a blue ray player with "Smart" functions and a terrestrial recorder with "Smart" same as the rest?
Consolidation is power. This trend isn't happening accidentally.
I am glad somebody's finally talking about this, it has been an issue for a while now.
I can’t watch a normal spectrum I’m channel without it saying unavailable at an annoying rate
Been feeling like this for years. I always add a set top box (Smart Device). I'd prefer a "Dummy TV" option. Only need online connectivity for updates.
100% Let us choose our "smart devices." I'll be dead before I buy a Roku powered TV.
how do you play movies?
@@SilkMilkJilk don't think evberyone has that
@@SilkMilkJilk ok. I don't like chromecast at all
Exactly. I use my xbox for all my streaming and apps
I totally agree with a universal implementation similar to Sony’s basic mode. Bottom line is that TV’s should 100% be usable with or without an internet connection. I’d go a step further and add a physical switch to the IO to turn off the wifi antennas like some routers do. Especially now that TV manufacturers are pushing add/suggestions/services on 50%+ of our Home Screen real estate. Speaking of, I’d like to see more options to customize home screens just like tablets/phones to completely remove unnecessary clutter. Many buy TVs for their elderly parents and I haven’t seen a single TV so far that does this well. Like I’m talking about truly simple that even a grandma can use without feeling intimidated or stupid (as they all say they do). So absolutely there’s areas for improvement.
I agree with you on all points. Great comment!
You don’t need to use any smart TV OS to use a smart TV as long as you’re using a cable box or streaming device.
@@wrzl1675 of course that’s true. But you would still need to learn 2 OS at least for navigation and 2 remotes for when accessing the tv menu is required. What I meant with my comment was a basic mode that is tailored more to seniors. I install TV’s for a living (you can guess where) and 8/10 times when it’s a senior person they absolutely need just the basics. LG web OS is the absolute worst for that kind of stuff. I have THOUSANDS of installations under my belt and I’m telling you man the “smarter” the TVs get the dumber they make seniors feel. Or people with mental handicap, etc…there are areas of improvement on simplicity
@@eliindy3851 Doesn't Roku TV's help with that??
Their menus are quite basic.
A Bad slow sluggish tv operating system really kills it for me.
Can anyone say vizio? Lol
Webos isn't sluggish its fast as apple 4k tv
@@arranstokes4080 I have the C1. WebOS is slow. Only fast part is launching the game bar.
why does a slow OS kill it for you? No one uses that shit anyways when externals are 10x better and NOT expensive at all. I literally bought TWO Vizio P Series BECAUSE their UI sucked but the value on the rest of the unit was FANTASTIC. So THANKS for smack talking Vizio and getting them to drop their price for me. LUL
@@MikeOnTrack it was as fast as my apple 4k tv on my cx so....
Here's a way we could improve smart TVs: give them a lobotomy. Going back to dumb TVs would solve all of this. Let the display be nothing but a display, and handle the intelligence externally with a low-cost device (Google TV, Apple TV, PC) that can be replaced as needed to keep pace with newer more demanding software. I hate the idea of being pushed out of using a high quality display because its software has gone to heck. I'm still using my sony XBR8 from 2009 and it is 100% as functional as the day I bought it because the software has never been updated. Planned obsolescence is the only reason for smart TVs, and we all know it. Improving the security flaws will not change that.
I have a 50 inch sony Bravia TV from 2012 that's still going strong. Best TV I have ever owned
Bought a smart toilet dispenser called the iPoop.
Knew it was a mistake when I farted and a voice said "excuse you"....
I think it's really wrong that if you want the optical settings and everything your to TV can do, you have to allow the manufacturer to access your data. That should be illegal.
Thank you so much for talking about the Privacy and security problems on these devices.
TVs, Soundbars, etc. should all have a physical hardware switches to turn off all microphones/cameras.
I would love to have a non smart tv with all the latest bells and whistles and pay less but that will probably never happen.
You would probably end up paying more. The manufactures make money off the ads.
@@flanigas This, the reason your 600 dollar smart TV doesn't cost 800 is because they'll feed you ads for 5+ years on that TV alone.
And when they’re removing features, get rid of the bad speakers to! One can dream…
@@krikkenstein yes!
@@flanigas This right here, 100%! E.g., the Amazon Kindle is more expensive if you opt for the ad free version.
This was a nice change of pace from the usual spec and product review front. Some "TV theory". Would like to see more stuff like this Caleb. Good stuff 👍
Glad you liked it! More to come!
I have always thought that making TVs "smart" was a pointless, expensive gimmick. An accurate image and product reliability are all I really need from my TV. If I want better sound I can add a good soundbar or a home theater system. If I want a "smart" interface I can choose from a wide variety of electronic devices that I can connect to my TV. As others have said here, the only intelligence my TV needs is the ability to receive firmware updates that improve basic performance. I also have no interest in smart appliances. Our electric utility recently had a power interruption that burned out the circuit board of my sister's new refrigerator, an $800 repair. My "stupid" refrigerator remained in perfect condition.
Smart everything is coming. It's more important for companies to gather big data like John Deere did, corner the market and take advantage as much as possible. Also they build a detailed profile of you and can target content and ads very effectively. Soon companies will know what food you have in your fridge and when and where you bought it, what brands and when you cook it. Maybe when things get really crazy that info will be accessed by insurance companies and you'll pay more for coverage if considered unhealthy eating all the time! That is one simple example of thousands that is coming in the long term future I think with smart products.
Smart TVs make some sense when it comes to various functionality that they just make easier. I mostly watch RUclips on my TV. I stream local video content over the air via its built in media server. I often use it with my bluetooth headphones when my wife is remote working and needs silence. I would need a separate device for all of this if it was just a dumb screen.
"the only intelligence my TV needs is the ability to receive firmware updates that improve basic performance."
And it should only need that if it literally outlives the current broadcast standard.
@@practicalguy973 Definitely count the government survallance and deep state in along with the insurance bozos. 🍷
@@gags730 🍷Besides whatever happened to curved screens? Don't hear much about them these days. The obvious thing I hate are the widescreen ratio options that always leave me wanting for more vertical height no matter how big the TV screen is. Never quite satisfies the true theater screening experience, something just never felt right with modern Tv screen ratios in general.
Words can't express my appreciation for this video. Consumer rights and our responsibility when it comes to understanding our tech is overlooked and ignored by so many every day. As a tech enthusiast, and a technician working in related fields, I can't tell you how frustrating the ignorance and lack of education on this matter is. I refer to "Smart" devices as DUMB devices every single day at work. However, the people that buy into a product at a basement level price, who expect top-tier performance, should also be held accountable. Manufacturers need to be held to higher standards. Longer warranties, less or no extensive agreements upon setup, and choice in level of features should be mandated. If our government won't do it, either because of a lack of ability to because of too many pitchforks, we need to demand it as consumers. The IoT and smart features are making everything worse, more than they are making things convenient and easy. And we could all do well with more homework before spending our hard earned money on devices.
@not tellin I guess people who spend on cheaper TVs and expect good performances
All smart TVs should come with a slot in the back where you can replace the "smart" hardware for up-grade components or the OS of your choosing... like the raspberry pi.
I would love if just about every device could do that. We constantly have to throw things out that had perfectly good hardware still.
That's why HDMI and display port exists. The TV shouldn't need new hardware, it should just take an input and display an image
Actually, I took a shortcut. I presently have a PC laptop connected to my TV via HDMI. I’m also considering a MAC mini.
Huge issue. Thanks for bringing it up. I’d like an option on my LG to just let Apple TV take over as the main OS. Modular TVOS computer modules that are upgradeable would be nice.
Caleb, you bring up a very valid point. I will even say it is a major one for the elderly who are not as tech savvy as most of your viewers are. For them, a Smart TV is a nightmare. Where are the days when you just pressed the On/Off button and rotated the dual to the desired channel? That sort of simplicity is what is missing
I set up a TCL set not long ago, for an older couple. The included Google TV thing is totally disastrous for simple TV watching, there seems no way to just have the TV turn on and go direct to broadcast TV, instead you have to run an 'app' for TV. So frustrating for these guys, and I'd imagine most other regular folks too.
@@zybch I ran into the same thing setting up for an older person and the Google TV screen was overwhelming for them. They thought they could watch everything there and didn't understand those were only links to shows Google believes they would be interested in and they may not own them. Turned it Google TV to App Only but it is still an exercise to just get the FIOS cable to work properly. Sorry I have to run because the phone is ringing for TV support. And I thought the days of the VCR having be on Channel 3 or 4 were tough to explain.
This is my problem. My elderly mother hates cell phones and prefers an old fashion house phone, which I am glad that I can still set up. Her "dumb" TV broke after 20 years of use and nearly all the stores around me are selling nothing but "smart" TV's and she hates them. I have to now go out of my way to Best Buy which has the only dumb TV in town so she has something simple to work with. Unfortunately, most other people I know have smart TV's and they love them, so I think this trend will continue until the software updates stop and they are forced to get another TV, which will become a burden on most families.
Hi Caleb, I use Apple TV4K with my old Sony Bravia XBR 5 and HomePod stereo speakers.
When I first saw 'smart TVs' appearing, I thought they were a bit of a gimmick. Then suddenly every 'TV' is now a 'Smart TV'. Heck, I'd say that the streaming contracts and advertising deals 'TV manufacturers' have these days are an essential part of their business plan by now.
Smart TVs are also why I'm not remotely interested in TVs these days. If I'll want a big screen at some point, I'll get a Large Format Gaming Monitor, as they're called instead. They're now the 'dumb TVs', it would seem. That said, they have all the features a regular ol' TV used to have, like a screen, and inputs and a remote control. Maybe not a tuner, but heck, who still watches TV these days? :)
I feel that hooking up an HTPC of some description (even an old laptop or desktop PC) is in so many ways superior to the 'Smart TV' experience. Not only do you get to stream from the same 'apps' as with a 'Smart TV', but you also control the hardware, the OS and its updates. Leaving that to some random manufacturer would seem... unwise, to put it mildly.
Plus you can also play games and other things on this HTPC, using your own Steam or GoG library or DOSBox or whatever. So much better than one of those dumb 'Smart TVs', if you ask me.
Or get a Sony projector - no apps. Set it correct = OLED quality.
@@LarsonChristopher Projectors keep getting 'smarts' added too these days. And that's when you even have a setup that lends itself to using a projector.
"who still watches TV these days?" me sometimes, but less each year, mostly live news and also it feels more real-time less lonely for some reason. My elderly mother only watches TV never anything streaming. If there is an update or if mom presses a wrong button and a menu pops up she has to call me to ask how to get out of it.
"who still watches TV these days?" Let me stop you right there. If that is the case, then you probably have another huge problem: no quality public tv.
@@completelymindfucked 4k over the air is coming out soon, ATC3.0 tuner needed. 2-3 years for small towns.
I think a small but well written law would help a lot. Something like "manufacturers have to provide security updates for at least 10 years after the customers purchase and release those not later than the updates for their newest or highest-end products".
try to get that past a republican lol
Or better yet.....have all features advertised work, regardless of software version, and implement real warranties. Like, 5 years minimum! We shouldn't need 3-4 updates for our 4k120hz or Dolby Atmos support to work. Either the TV has it, or it doesn't.
@@BoondockSaintRyan I couldn't agree more. That's why you always buy a TV based on what's available the moment you take it out of the box instead of waiting on future firmware updates.
I'm a 3rd party vendor w/ a TV manufacturer selling their TVs in a major retailer on the weekends. This is something I mention to folks often when they start asking questions about it. Some people think that they need a new TV when all they need to do is plug in a Roku or Firestick.
Please return to long form videos, this deserved a good half hour analysis in depth.
“Smart TVs” have never been smart, we as the user have to do all the work. I agree with what is being stated.
I've never used a TV's apps for content. Anything I watch I do it through a device. Same goes for speakers. I never use the TV speakers, no matter how good they are, because even the best TV speakers can't really match an affordable soundbar.
I'm looking to buy a new one in the next year or so, and the only thing I really care about is: does it have HDMI 2.1, eArc, and all the HDR formats, 120Hz. Everything else doesn't matter. If you could strip away all that extra stuff, would that reduce the cost of the TV? As far as software, I'd rather have some ability for the TV to self calibrate using my phone's camera or some such rather than run Netflix.
If you strip them, they would cost more since they are subsidized by ads.
I Absolutely agree! I'm so glad this topic was brought up. Ever since smart TVs became widespread, I have been saying I would much rather buy a regular tv and use a streaming device.
I recently bought sony x85J.
But yeah, only using it with firestick of course.
Features I like to see on all TVs:
1. One touch switch between cable and streaming services.
2. LG like pointer interface
3. Apple tv/Google tv like interface where I can search a title across all streaming services.
4. A single place to keep my watch list.
5. Decent in-built speakers
Someone finally mentioned internal speakers. I think this is important, why should I have to go out and buy a sound bar when they can create a decent sound. However now I am see the return of decent sound on Tv, Sony got their acoustic surface audio and Samsung in 2022 will be coming out with Dolby Atmos on the internal speakers.
Bought my smart tv around 2017, screen is great however after time the apps such as Netflix and RUclips became very slow as the hardware hasn’t kept up with software, plus Disney plus doesn’t work on it so it was supposed to be a new tv £600 but then I discovered a fire stick for £15 runs everything perfect, be careful as I nearly threw away a perfectly good tv
I dont even plug my tv into the internet. I use a roku box for streaming. Maybe its better these days, but the built in aps always felt slower and more clunky than something dedicated to streaming.
Absolutely spot on. I was just beating my head against a wall because I couldn't get my mom's "smart" Samsung TV to download the Disney+ app. A few RUclips videos later I realized that even though it's a 2015 UHD flat screen that works perfectly, it's too old to run Disney+ (womp, womp). Thanks to one of your other videos we are bypassing the TV's dated OS and purchasing a new Apple TV box that does have the hardware and software to run Disney+.
Thanks for calling attention to this massive annoyance. I see the corporate lock in to content providers and their various Destructive Restriction Mechanisms (DRM) as the core of the problem. I've recently searched extensively for an "intellegent" TV (as opposed to Smart TV) and they are nowhere to be found -- apparently the content provider subsidies and licensing deals provide too much profiteering incentive. Separation between content providers and content carriers, e.g. Net Neutrality and passive delivery devices, is a necessity for resolving this expanding disease of privacy invasion and consumer abuse.
Step one keep your tv offline and use it as a good looking monitor
Step two just buy a media player that controls cec
Step three, win
I've been really happy with Sony Android TV implementation. Vizio is trash though.
Thanks Caleb , I was just talking about this all week . I purchased a new Sony X91J 85" TV for my dedicated home theater and it has been a total nightmare !!! I have a full 7.3.4 Atmos set up consisting of , Denon AVR-X3700H + Denon POA-8300 three chan. power amp (powering the front stage)with a Sony BD-X800 M2 Blue Ray player and a brand new Fire TV Max and it is controlled with a Harmony Elite remote , and every time it turn on the system the TV decides to pick what source I am using !?!?! The remote tells it to use HDMI 4 input but it sees the fire stick and the Blue Ray player and usually picks the player instead of the Fire TV !!!! I just need this TV to be a video display and nothing more , just give me the best picture it can produce and the rest of my system will do the rest!!!! I do not understand why these TV manufacturers don't have a way to simply turn off the smart/stupid TV functions , or better yet offer the same TV as a video display only , call it Theater View -no smart features and no speakers etc . We pay for all this stuff we don't need and it just makes setting up a home theater 10x harder !!!!! Love your show and the stuff you cover !!!!!!
i had a vizio when smart tvs were a new thing. the smarts crapped out in about 3 years, but the tv still works. most apps literally cant run on it anymore because they updated out of the tvs abilities. the display still works fine
Exact problem. Smart TV apps no longer run even with a good internet connection. Regular TV works ok MOST of the time but lately the screen has been randomly turning off, with sound still working. Needs to be rebooted to work again. Smart BS is making TVs slow and less reliable.
We do not use any built in apps. We watch all our content on Apple TV because it tracks what we are watching accross all apps, has no adds, and works well with our other apple devices.
Thank you so much for bringing this up! I subscribed to this channel initially for reviews of TVs that I can never buy. But this time you really open my eyes to something much more important and serious. I believe it is a great service to many casual tech users who are yet to understand what it means for TVs, or even a lot more appliances, going 'smart'. The update issue that forces ppl to retire their TVs, the security and privacy issues. A lot more things must be done to address the issues. I think both the consumers and the law makers would need to act, so as to ensure that we do not fall into some sort of techno-dystopia.
Good Points. I, for one can not understand why anyone would allow an Amazon Ecco or similar device into their private domain. Convenience? Well, kind of but I wish people would understand the true cost of the privacy given up and the enduring data dossier detailing your private life.
I couldn’t agree more. I bought a vizio tv a year or so ago, and while the picture is great, the software experience is awful. It’s not even that smart cast is slow (which it is) or has limited apps and no App Store, but the actual tv software itself is super buggy. It sometimes doesn’t turn on or locks up the remote, and will require unplugging/plugging back in or a full reset every month. And yeah that’s not that huge a deal to do, but i bought a product expecting it to work reasonably and reliably, I shouldn’t have to reset everything except maybe once a year just to freshen things up. I bought an Apple TV and the experience is light years ahead of whatever chipset they use in the television and I’ll never use a smart tv OS again.
I have a 65" Vizio that won't even connect to the streaming apps anymore. My internet connection is fine and it says it's connected on the TV. But the Vizio apps will simply not run saying it can't connect to the internet. The screen also randomly turns off watching regular TV, even though the sound is still working. All this built-in smart tech is making TVs less reliable.
Smart TV's have never been usable. I have always relied on an external streaming box, an external box can be replaced when something better comes out for not much money.
I believe smarts should be removed altogether. As Elon Musk says, the best part is no part. Streaming boxes are hidden behind the TV anyway.
One solution would be to have a user replaceable module so the smart system can be upgraded (or removed).
That's a pretty cool shirt, Caleb's gotten some real style going for him lately
LG turning webOS’s clean ribbon into a full screen spread with ads and apps from different ecosystems is one of the worst unforced errors a television maker has ever made.
And this clown actually championed it.
100% - One big frustration is those TOS contracts. I can't use half of the products and services out there these days because I do read them, and they're not acceptable. It says a lot that the click wrap software never has the option to decline the TOS. It's designed as a hoop to jump through, not a decision that people will really make (Do you accept the TOS, Yes or Yes). Another is feature changes are forced, bundled with necessary bug fixes, or can't be rolled back. Consumers deserve the right to the software, hardware, and services that were in place at the time they purchased the product. If I buy a $1000 TV, no-one should be able to change the features of that product without my permission. If I can't choose to use software and services that were in place when I made my purchasing decisions, I should have the option to return the product for a full refund of the hardware and unused service fees. Google and Sony lost me as a future customer with exactly that sort of nonsense when they added advertisements to my expensive Bravia TV home screen 3 years after I purchased it. They even added a special flag so, while it appears in the list of home screen features, it can't be turned off (unlike all of the other home screen features). Google is doing many other things that discourage me from using its other products too, like nasty contracts on some of their services and apps, and updates on my expensive Chromebook that are making what was a powerful and snappy product into something that's slow, runs hot, and has a terrible battery life.
Just got my first "smart" TV a couple months ago and have never connected it to the internet or used the built-in apps. It really blows my mind that there are no options anymore for a TV without all that bs. From the research I did, it seems that most of the problems TVs have nowadays are caused by the OS, apps, and firmware updates bricking them. This is why I stuck with my previous 10+ year old 720p TV 'til the wheels fell off.
I would recommend a monitor, but they're crazy expensive and often lack a lot of features compared to most less expensive TVs.
@@Ben-Rogue I had an expensive 1440p 165Hz Gsync monitor and it looked like garbage. Really hard on my eyes and I got tired of always being confined to a desk. Monitor features are really lacking when compared to TVs too.
I never use the build in apps.
Always an external device...( Shield tv)
I use mostly the native apps on my TVs. I use my console for crunchy roll and yeah the LG not having HBO max was irritating for a while. The common user may not have the luxury of overlap of having a smart tv, 2 next gen consoles and maybe an external streaming device. I agree with the issues brought up in this video.
So funny my older Samsung didn't have some of the Apps like HBOMax, Disney+, and others available. I purchased and set up a Fire Cube to have access to those apps and some others. You can do the same thing with a gaming console but I don't have a console on every TV. .
The portability of a desktop gaming rig...
The privacy and security concerns of a smartphone...
The user interface of a Gameboy Advance...
The business model of a sketchy social media company...
The startup speed of a coal-fired power plant...
The reliability of 90s-era dial-up Internet downloads...
It's THE SMART TV!
Our next TV is going to be a computer monitor.
I just want a TV that has great picture and build quality and doesn't have any smart apps and whatnot. I use a separate Roku and I love it this way.
Just get rid of all the bloatware! (sorry, I mean ''apps'').
- Cheaper TVs
- More stable
- Better privacy
If you REALLY want these stuff, then get yourself a laptop an an extra HDMI cable.
getting rid of bloat ware would not make cheaper TVs, they are cheap because of the smart features these days.
The rest is still true
@@Stars-Mine I think with or without the smart features the price will be the same. They use these smart feature to generate more profit. So basically they are advertising to us.
I just had that conversation 2 weeks ago. I would love to have a "dumb" TV with no smartfeatures at all besides Software updates and of corse image enhancments and add my own streaming device. This way I could have the OS that I want with the TV that I want without having it be slowed down by heavy software and could just upgrade the streaming device if I felt like I need an upgrade.
Get a sony pro display.
@@LarsonChristopher I mean from what I see they are double the price of an similar non pro model. If money would not be an issue than I would just upgrade the TV every year. But thanks fot he suggestion non the less
@@maximm.6969 if we even ever get a dumb tv, they are going to be MORE expensive than smart tv's. Why? Because tv's are subsidized by their contracts with streaming platforms.
I would suggest to just get a tv that would go directly to hdmi ( most tv's), and plug your streaming device as you would like to.
My first smart TV was my Samsung smart TV in the living room... ran it as-is for about a year then bought a cheap FireTV for the kids room... realized the FireTV had a better setup than Samsung did... So I bought a FireCube for my living room and now I bypass the Samsung "smart" features all-together... after that experience I upgraded my own bedroom TV and just bought a DUMB TV (no smart features at all) and plugged in a FireCube for it.
They really should just go back to selling dumb TVs that are high quality otherwise... let people plug-in their Firesticks, AppleTV, Roku, NvidiaShield, etc and let the consumer choose what interface they want to use. That way if something becomes "out of date" its the plug-in device, not the expensive TV.
For me biggest issues are:
1.reliability( this new Tvs after 2 max years getting glitchy, staggering, burnt outs and they are ready for bin) -lack of efficiency
2. Security/Privacy- you are getting maybe 2 years update, in first year maybe 3 updates, in second year 1 or 2 updates and that's it
3.ads -Oh my God, what to say about that?! Tvs can't follow with bad and weak CPUs and GPUs.
It's getting overwhelmed with so many features plus ads.
This is getting a bigger issue, cuz people are more and more using tvs as their monitor for gaming, work and meetings and that is okey, once you try flagship TV, example gaming, you don't want anything else.
The question is: How fast will TVs become main things for everything in households. When TVs become majority for work gaming, work and meetings that is the Day when competition will have to pleasure our need for efficency, reliability and satisfaction not for 2 years, but at least for 5 years.
Great content and awareness as always!
Keep going Caleb, great shirt BTW! 😀
Apple TV 4K is a must in my book if you’re buying a high-end TV and care enough
Then you’re stuck with that “dumb” remote control.
@@michaelpalermo9278 hdmi cec
We use Apple TV 4K for streaming and we use the remote from my TV instead of from the ATV.
@@SaifDia so I bought the Sony A80J OLED. I have it setup with all wireless Sonos speakers. The Soundbar, the surrounds and the Sub. I have no streaming device. I use the remote that came with the TV to control everything. It’s been SO nice to have one remote for everything. The streaming through the TV has been very smooth.
Not really a bad experience exactly but both my smart tvs (from like 2015-2017) are worse then using a console or computer when it comes to apps and I don't appreciate the fact that I can't update them anymore (they're still decent picture quality so why get rid of them?). Ads are a big concern for me whenever I upgrade in the future as I don't really want to get blasted in the face with ads as soon as I hit power on the remote. Security is also a issue as I don't need a device that's a liability in my own home. It's kind of to the point where I'm actually thinking about getting a apple tv (so I can do airplay as well as have a decent experience on netflix).
Also hdr is kind of a big issue too; One of my tv was advertised as having hdr10 only to find out that the peak brightness is 400 nit and it only really does "hdr" by accepting a hdr signal (and looks worse then sdr due to no wide color gamut and low peak brightness). We need a tighter standard on HDR instead of this wishy washy "is it really hdr" game that I'm currently trying to play with on buying a second monitor eventually.
Don't forget the "HDMI 2.1a" debacle while you're at it...
This is an exceptional video young man. Please expand this topic. Kudos 👍
Exactly right. My 91-year-old father cannot even operate his "smart" TV without help.
His Samsung TV stopped supporting RUclips after only a couple of years. This is outrageous, IMHO.
A superior solution would be a dumb TV with an external box (FireTV/Roku/Google-doohickey). That way the box can be upgraded for $30-50 without disturbing the rest of the TV.
Regarding security, the current success rate of hackers makes it foolhardy to even have features like a camera on the TV. Remove any junk that can be turned against the user. Just don't have it.
And Chinese manufacturers? Ugh... HiSense and TCL have some incredibly good values, but they have been caught embedding back doors in hardware for years. I think we have to assume that any TV made in China is a security risk.
I really like how Benq has been handling this, by shipping a separate streaming stick along with their projectors. You don't have to install it if you don't want it
I use an Xbox Series X, and actually keep the wifi turned off on the TV unless I'm using specific apps or updating it. No use hogging more wifi needlessly.
This is fantastic! I've often thought about this very topic following the FBI's bulletin. Myself I prefer to keep my applications on all platforms (PC, smartphone, TV, streaming device) to a minimum to minimize security risks.
I think you have to approach this from a few angles.
1) TV operating systems should have to meet a minimum security standard;
2) Our home networks need to have active monitoring to detect and address unusual activity from connected devices;
3) TV OS platforms need to agree to support a TV operating system and SoC for a minimum of seven years from date of purchase;
4) Any external streaming device needs to maintain backwards connectivity compatibility for TV inputs for the previous ten years of HDMI (or whatever else arises) standards;
5) TV manufacturers need to offer free scanning tools to check TVs for malware;
6) TV manufacturer application listings need to ensure that any and all applications are vetted such as those on Google Play or the Apple App Store.
I just got a smart TV for the first time last December and have since left it disconnected from the internet so I don’t have to see ads/suggestions every time I turn it on. Yet somehow they find a way to bug you with an annoying “Set up your TV now!” banner that never goes away
I love how manufacturers have to include these features to sell their product but don’t give the option to disable them unless you turn Everything off. Obviously you can’t include an option because it would make people think there is an underlying reason why they need to (harming brand image) but it’s almost a necessity in 3-4 years when the interface is too sluggish to be usable. I’m honestly just thankful that AirPlay/Display Mirroring is found on most brands and can be used without connecting to the internet.
Making the hardware more open for alternative firmware might be an option, like Cyanogen firmware keeps android phones alive a lot longer than the manufacturers
I´ve been using the apple tv 4k second generation and it´s great. TVos is just so much better!
I have a 2017 Sony X900E 65" (X90E in other regions) and I use the built-in apps, though I sometimes feel like buying an Apple TV as the Sony doesn't use a BT remote and it sometimes lags. Otherwise, it works more than fine enough for me (4K HDR (no Vision but yes Atmos) still looks amazing and you can force 1440p 120Hz for gaming, though no adaptive sync). The TV has been updated to Android 9 and its last security update was March 5, 2021. Overall, it's fine for casual use and movie watching. Prefer it over my 2019 Samsung QLED as Android TV/Google TV is still, in my opinion, the superior TV OS.
Also, for Sony TV's, they do have a "Basic TV" mode which fully disables all the smart functionality if you want to use a streaming box/stick. Once the TV starts getting really slow/laggy or outdated, I'm just going to keep using it with an Apple TV or Google TV (if they add AirPlay support to it).
I love my 900E.
Yes! Thank you for talking about this topic,
2020 & 2021 Samsung TVs are so frustrating with their connectivity issues and the low cpu performance. most definitely NOT smart TV
I don’t use built in tv apps. If I could buy a dumb tv with a great screen and save a few bucks, I would.
itd cost you money, they make buckets off of ads
Apple TV on all of my tvs. Slick user interface and we get the same experience no matter what tv we’re using
Yeah, but the remote control sucks.
@@michaelpalermo9278 Apple Watch 👍🏼
@@michaelpalermo9278 i never use the remote. The iPhone works perfectly!
@@MrDexterSr does the iPhone turn your tv on?
@@michaelpalermo9278 yessir it does. As long as your TV supports CEC, you can turn and off your tv from the iPhone’s digital remote
None of the issues that have been found with Smart TV's so far weren't anything that wasn't predicted from day one. I've got a very early Samsung "Smart TV" that I was given by my Aunt. At the time it was a range topping TV and years later it's completely useless with it's Smart features that haven't been removed. The big problem is the manufacturers don't have incentives to support the TV's for longer than 3 years or create apps for new streaming services. Adding apps doesn't sell new TV's, creating updates only costs money for them too. A external streaming box is always going to be better. Once it's finished support wise just replace it cheaply. My main living room Samsung TV never got Disney+ (it was 1 year too old) and it doesn't bother me because the picture is good enough and my AppleTV does everything I want and typically has any new streaming service app well before a Smart TV does. After Samsung experimented with showing their own ads over the apps on their TV's I don't even connect my Smart TV's to the network any more.
I’ve been running my CX with all the WebOS features turned off. Just have my game consoles plugged in and an Apple TV for streaming (which handles privacy much better than LG). All I really need from the tv is good picture quality and constant firmware support, which it has delivered just fine.
Awesome and much needed content!
Apple TVs interface is best among all. I use built in OS in my Samsung Frame tv since I don't want to spent more after buying an expensive TV.
Features I like to see on all TVs:
1. One touch switch between cable and streaming services.
2. LG like pointer interface
3. Apple tv/Google tv like interface where I can search a title across all streaming services.
4. A single place to keep my watch list.
5. Decent in-built speakers
If I could get a great TV that is "dumb", I'd get it. All my "smart" features can be handled by my Nvidia Shield which can run circles around any smart TV. My current 55" TV is about 10 years old and no apps will run on it any more. The smart feature is completely dead, but the TV still looks amazing. Best thing about an external device is, it's a lot easier to replace when it stops working.
It really is redundant having a smart TV but you have to buy an additional streaming device because your TV doesn't have the apps you want.
I've been saying since the beginning of the "smart TV" that it's a dumb idea. The main reason why these manufactures want them installed is rather simple 1. They want you to buy a new TV like a cell phone (one to two years) by making sure that it's not upgradeable in 1-2 years 2. They harvest your data (even if you opt out) to make more profit, and/or get their money back if their selling them at a loss hardware wise. 3. They have more control of how you use your set, or even be able to fix/setup your TV. 4. ADs that don't even need to be explained in detail & falls into the third reason. I've always recommended to people to look for a TV without the smart features if your going over 32 inches even if it's a older model, getting a PC monitor if it's 32 inches or lower with a good small soundbar/PC Speakers , or going for a cheap 1080p~4K projector. Then you can hook up any external streaming, HDTV Tuner, and/or a cheap HTPC. Android/Google TV boxes become obsolete within 1-2 years so it's best to save money, and throw away a small device creating as little E-Waste as possible rather than a huge TV while wasting hundreds of dollars. The smartest way is a cheap SFF PC they'll last for up to ten plus years without the need to upgrade anything except software and can run Android X86 for those that want to use apps instead of a browser. Then connect a small stereo receiver with decent speakers to the onboard sound for a better sound than most commercial sound bars.
Dude, all good points. One that has just bugged the heck out of me is that damn handshake between devices like your TV and soundbar, i.e. CEC. Weird that there is one standard to rule them all.
I, for one, prefer my "non-smart" TV. Dumb TVs are better. I don't need the OS or the ads. I was just thinking about this the other day. Great video!
This was a big reason why I went for the A80J. The Basic TV setup option in it is great (although not perfect). I have an AppleTV and use it exclusively. The only time I get into the “smart” side of the TV is for a firmware update. The UI design on all Smart TV’s are horrible, SOC’s are lacking, and networking speeds are way to low. I’d be happier if they ditched the Smarts (and the speakers) in lieu of higher quality thinner panels at the same prices points (more margin for them) or reduced prices.
Back in 2014 when I made the jump from CRT to flat. I was watching the performance bencmark videos playing on the TVs at electronics store. The store staff came on to me and I said I want something with good picture quality, but no internet or any extra apps that add to the prize. He told me that all the good quality screens come with smarts... I didn't want to pay for features that are totally unneccessary, so I ended up buying my friends old 2009 Panasonic high-end plasma TV for 200e. Still using it. It's connected to my desktop computer when I want to watch streams online.
AMEN 🙏 100% on board with making option for “dumb tv” set up. Samsung has apps I don’t need and lacks one I need 😎
I was starting to think to myself that TVs are getting too smart for their own good. I shouldn't have to waste time disabling or disagreeing to pages of stuff I don't want or intend to use. Plus all the privacy issues I have with most devices and software in general. I just want a 40" display with speakers and get OTA antenna capabilities. For the most part if I want a "smart" TV, I can connect my computer up and have way more smart than any TV could ever dream of offering.
As a former TV engineer all you need is a screen add the box of your choice.
And sound system of your choice.
And a way you go your sorted .
I totally agree. I ended up just buying a Fire TV Stick for my expensive LG GX because I couldn't get all of the streaming services that I wanted to use. Yeah, I can now get HBO Max, but I still can't get Rakuten Viki. I'm in the process of removing/deregistering all of my streaming services on my LG since I don't even use them.
I couldn't agree with you more. I bought a premium Sony TV, the best for the year it came out, (paid loads of £££ as well), only to find that no updates are coming out and the CPU dealing with the Smart features, soon became too slow. Given the thousands of £ paid, it's deplorable that very quickly we had to get a streaming stick instead. Surely, ensuring that the smart aspects of a TV are kept up-to-date for maaaany years, must be the norm. 👍🏼
Ever more, people demand less for their hard earned money!
Smart tv manufacturers should definitely buff up their security game and also have a regular tv setup option just as Sony tv’s have :)
Just ordered a C1 and i'm already dreading the new WebOS on it. I loved how nonintrusive the original WebOS was on my 2015 LG TV
Connect it to the internet with a cable, helps a bit versus the WiFi that is not so responsive in general. Also if you don't log into LG, top row of "support apps" won't load/work and it will be a little quicker, but it will bother you to login to install apps from the store...
It is the only thing I don't like about my C1. But then again, I only use it as a "dumb" display connected to my PCs
@@madant7777 Thanks for the advice. I've heard that you can also block ads from showing up if you blacklist certain addresses on your router?
@@H3llb0und Yeah, definitely depends on how you use it. I do typically use it for Netflix and RUclips, so it's not that big of a deal considering there's a dedicated Netflix button and I usually cast content to RUclips anyway
Webos on cx was great i dont knwo what they changed however
The problem with smart TVs is that they’re only up to date when you buy them as soon as a new model comes out they’re forgotten, looking at you LG, I bought the LG C9 when it was the latest model back in 2019, then LG introduced the CX with a new UI and that UI never made it to the C9, that doesn’t happen with the Apple TV 4K I have connected to it, my Apple TV went from tvOS 14 to 15 and now all the sudden I have new features and can install the latest streaming apps without waiting for LG to add them to the store whenever they feel like it.
By refusing to connect my TV to WiFi and just using a Chromecast instead, I feel safer buying a Chinese brand TV like TCL which has good specs for a budget price.
I really would rather get a monitor (no smarts) and save some money. You will always get better app support on a streaming box. And you get to pick which one you want. Apple guy? Get Apple TV. Amazon person? Get a Fire TV. Google person? Get a Chromecast. Take out the apps & lower the price by $100 or so, and I can spend the difference on the streaming box of my choice. You are spot-on with this video.
Awesome video, I agree 100% with everything you said! A TV should be as sustainable as possible. Some trends are already good: 1. People are buying streaming sticks for handling most of their smart TV needs. 2. There's consolidation happening on the platform market: Android TV and Roku are being adopted by more and more manufacturers, so with less operating systems on the market and more market share for each, there's more motivation to keep them updated and secure. But the current state of those systems is not nearly there yet, so that's where we need to see improvement happening.
I just bought a Panasonic JZW2004, because it's very solid hardware, it has a snappy, responsive operating system, and it's one of the few options that are also great for linear TV. Also, there's no user account needed to access apps, and there are not a lot of ads. And I hope that being a premium TV, it'll be supported for a long time. As soon as it doesn't receive updates anymore, switching to a streaming stick will be easy. Time will tell if I made the right decision.
If I'd had more cash, I'd go for a small German company: Metz. They build premium hardware and have a minimal, streamlined approach to software. There's no app store, no ads, just HbbTV and a browser. And it does linear TV really well (something that's getting less and less important for most companies). For anything streaming, they tell you to use something like a Fire TV stick, and their remote will seamlessly work with it.
If I had less money to spend, I'd probably go for a snappy, minimal system again, like Roku or Vidaa U, and as soon as the OS doesn't get any updates anymore, I'd switch to using a streaming stick for all things related to internet/streaming, and reset the TV and cut any internet connection from it, effectively making it a dumb TV.
So why not Android TV when I first said I like that it's getting more and more market share? With limited and quickly aging hardware in a TV, it's just too sluggish most of the time, and I think that inside of a TV it's just trying to do too much. However, I think it's an awesome OS for a streaming stick that you can replace every couple of years.
I love my Sharp / ROKU TV, I put my old Sharp TV in the living room. My old Sharp’s Smart TV App is very lame, and my wife wanted the same functionality as my Sharp / ROKU TV, so got the standard hockey puck ROKU device and installed it. That was more of a patch than a fix for the TV, and needed both remotes to get anything done. Then I saw that one of the HDMI ports was also an “ARC” port. I found the ROKU Sound Bar also supported “ARC”. The “ARC” interfaced the ROKU remote into the TV. The interface in the living room was now almost exactly the same as that of the Sharp / ROKU TV in the bedroom.
To make a long story short I agree with you how Smart TVs are a mess, but if we could keep the “ARC” interface in all TVs fixing security flaws could be as simple as replacing the appliance connected to the HDMI input port.
I definitely think having a dumb tv and buying a streaming box is the best option imo
For my TV... I turned off all the internet accessibility and basically just made it a monitor. Broadcast reception only and connected devices (game console or PC). I'll control what I can from a connected device.
One of the worst things companies do is to close down the whole app market they created. I had this happen with one of my older Sony's and after 2 years of usage, they just shutdown the whole app market and only the apps with a shortcut on the remote control were active. Even those stopped getting updates.
This was a needed video. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
I bought a Vizio TV 3 years ago, bought it at Walmart and who incidentally closed one month later. I was told this TV will do anything, I'm a truck driver so I did not need cable I wanted the antenna TV. The TV was about 13 or 14 hundred dollars. I hooked it up and no picture would come in. Come to find out it doesn't even have a tuner in it, so in the last 3 years I've had to buy three tuners from Best buy, all three tuners burnout exactly one year later I bought all 3 in May of 2022 2023 2024, they're selling these sets as TVs, but if the TV doesn't have a tuner. I don't believe it's a TV. It's a monitor. Beware stay away from Vizio.
We just got a 65" C1 and I mentioned how we'd never use the TV apps because we always have the Xbox hooked up but sometimes you don't feel like turning that thing on. I've used the built in streaming apps more in the last two weeks than I have for the rest of my life, it's just a convenience thing.
I have a smart TV, but I'm really considering getting a non-smart TV. I have 4 devices plugged into it a PS3, PS4, Cable box, and a Firestick that recently replaced a Roku device. The FireTV that basically do the same thing only better and in the case of the Firestick, much better. So in reality all that is needed is a really good display with a lot of HDMI connections and the ability to support external speaker systems and respond to commands like on/off and volume from an external device like a Firestick, Roku, etc. Would be very interested in a video on a setup that would accomplish this. Excellent video!
I don't use the redundant apps on the TV.
About 4 months ago we got a Sony X85J - not because it was smart, we wanted a slightly larger tv and this has ATSC - 3. We don't use the smart stuff - we use a Roku because we can set it at 720p - we have 6Mbs dsl and a low low data cap. If we ever get real broadband we'll probably try the built in Google tv - maybe? (I will add that the ATSC - 3 has required both our antennas and an amplifier - where we used to just use our big antenna - and there isn't anything more being broadcast than before - my husband's thinking was 'future proofed' - but as you pointed out we will only get so may updates. )
This is why when I finally buy one (this year?), I will use a google or roku external device. But man, my plasma still works.....
Very good video Caleb. The basic setup idea is a good one. There should always be a way to switch between inputs and picture functions without getting into the smart TV OS, and on some brands/models, maybe there already is. That being said, (without having done any research myself) I don't think it's very common that TV OS:s gets messed up. But as a fail safe, still being able to still use the TV in such a case is of course a plus.
Cameras on TVs that can't easily be disconnected (physically) or have their lense covered is a very bad idea. Same goes for a microphones, although I think most TVs (up until now at least) that has one, has it built in to the remote control rather than on that actual TV. That will most likely change however, since more people tend to work from home now, and are more likely to use their TVs in multiple ways (voice in gaming, job meetings etc etc) where a microphone on the actual TV "could" become more useful. This is kind of basic stuff though, so I think most manufacturers are clever enough to figure this out.
When it comes to ads I think it should be possible to turn them off completely. That being said, I am using both a Sony bravia and an LG Oled, and as of yet I can't really say I've had a problem with that, apart from annoying RUclips ads, but that's not really what we are talking about here. What bothers me more is going between the different remotes and different smart TV OS:es, it's a hassle. ;-)
#welfareproblems
The thing that annoys me most is that smart TVs don't have actual profiles. Like on different apps you have different profiles and stuff but you can't do that on the tv. The worst part is that Samsung TVs have user profiles but they do NOTHING. WHY? and on Google tv they have it but only KIDS PROFILES!!! WHY???? WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT?????
I recently upgraded from my 55 inch Sony LED TV from 2010 to a 65" sony A80J. My old Sony tv stopped working with RUclips, Netflix and other apps about 2 years ago. The old tv was perfectly functional and still has a great picture. It just needs a streaming box like a fire stick or Roku box or something like that. It was very jarring to see how much info I needed to give Sony and Google and others in order to sign into the apps on my new Sony. I wish I could just sign in to the specific apps I want to use and didn't need a profile just to turn the tv on.