It's a good video bro. Pretty through. Probably spent too much time on whoever that random documentary guy was. I guess for me, what would be really compelling is if you did something way outside of your expertise, which is a statistical informational analysis based on the information density over time, and how much information we would expect to be preserved based on the events depicted. My current stance is that all we would expect to have from so back is the ancillary evidence. At least from the pre-saul era that is. But If that were demonstrated to be false, then that would, ya know, make the lack of evidence actually unexpected.
@ReligionForBreakfast In the Hebrew Bible the river is called "Jordan River" and the Sea is called ים פלשתים (yām pə-li-tמm) "Sea of Palestine". “From the river to the sea Palestine will be free,” part of it "sea Palestine " is Biblical. 3000 years ago the sea was "Sea of Palestine"
Imagine being Amminadab, fresh into the iron-age, with your iron tools and your iron weapons, meanwhile your dad, Ram, is still living in the bronze-age, embarassing you in front of your friends with his inferior alloys.
The point is the quality of use, whats the point of nice bronze sword if it cant compete with Iron Sword? Unless u want to store it for Future Generation lol@oivinf
That “commemorative plaque” in Saudi Arabia says right on it that it is “Red Sea Coastal Survey”. So it is what it says a survey marker, not a commemorative plaque.
@@hokton8555 Could be because its located in an inconvenient place and it happens that they need to tidy up the place. Like, for reasons unrelated to archeology at all.
@@hokton8555 the kingdom has a history of removing shrines and historic monuments to discourage religious "innovation". It's why the tombs and shrines of the sahabah have been removed when the ruling family took control and moved the kingdom towards a strict salafih form of Islam. Salafihs are very extreme with what they consider innovations and harmful to Islam. Many Sufi practices are considered innovations by Salafis. It's harming and changing religious cultural practices in historically Hanafi and Sufi regions that have a large influx of Saudi funding and tourism.
@@ahmedisl8As it turns out he may not have been selling bad copper after all but rather had a few customers that tried to scam him over the years. We don't actually know the truth and it's a shame that the negative interpretation of the man has become so famous.
I heard him say that name and every time I thought: "That sounds like something or someone I know, but what?!" It was Shawshank, thank you, it annoyed me greatly that I couldn't remember... ;-)
I really liked this and love the collaboration, but I have some quibbles as someone trained in Archaeology. Matt Baker should point out that thinking you can find archaeological evidence of someone specifically from the Bronze age is just really Bizarre. Egypt and Babylon were almost unique on having writing as a common-ish technology. We don't have names from the Minoan Civilization, or really from Mycenaeans either. The Homeric Epics are from Mycenaean origins, but don't provide a name list. I think this point should be framed as the kind of evidence of individuals that exist from the Iron age was a result of the shift to all sorts of new technologies. It just wasn't a thing in the Bronze age. Any evidence of Moses should be treated with the greatest skepticism on simple dating. It's is as bad as wondering why you don't find steel, because it's the Bronze age and they didn't do that then.
So Ron found a 3000 year old pillar in Egypt that had carvings when he found it, and in the same location within a few years all the carvings had eroded away? 🤔🤔
About the disarticulated bones from the sea floor, I was under the impression that they dissolve in about 5 years, but I just looked it up and they can dissolve in about 1 years time.
17:24 “people erect religious monuments all the time”. Although not religious, Hans Brinker immediately crossed my mind. He was made up by an American author, based on an older story. It’s about a boy that saved the day by putting his thumb in a hole in a dyke. A lot of Americans thought it really happened, so when they visited the Netherlands asked where it happened. So the Dutch put up a statue of made up Hans near Haarlem, a city close to Amsterdam. It’s now imported Dutch folklore. There is actually a real story that is a bit similar. In 1953, with the North Sea Flood, a piece of a dyke near Rotterdam was destroyed by the water. Thousands of lives were in danger. A captain nearby drove his boat in the gap and saved Rotterdam and environment. This is also what really happens when a dyke break through. When you see water coming through the dyke, it’s already too late. That part of the dyke will collapse soon.
The part of this which interests me is that "based on an older story.". I wonder if anyone has traced the story back to folklore and if the folklore comes out of Dutch colonial America. Perhaps not. But the story does seem like it COULD come out of that kind of cultural history
I always thought that Judeans/Israelis being "slaves in Egypt" and then being "freed" might just be some memory of Egypt conquering them before they regained their independence.
I believe there's a theory that the Hyksos, mentioned as adversaries of the Egyptians, were a Semetic people who ruled over them and were driven out of Egypt at one point. Perhaps the Exodus is a culture memory of this?
@@natybar-yosef9931 its a reference to "team ups" from American comic books. The "avengers" and the "justice legue" are teams made up of diverse groups of heros who are also famous on their own (superman and batman in the justice league, for example) who combine their skills. This video is similar in that its several existing religious studies channels who have brought their specific skills together to examine the same topic.
At about 22:00 you write off Moses as a literary character. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It would most likely be safer to say that he has not been attested to in the archeolgical record. On the other hand, you omit a huge Bronze Age Biblical reference which was not attested to in the archeological record -- until it was. This is the Hittites. Until the mid-19th century, the only references to the Hittites were in the Bible. This Bronze-age culture was lost to the Greeks and the Romans. Yet the Bible not only mentions them at the appropriate times, but also accurately alludes to their changing political structures - something that would have been virtually impossible for Babylonian-exile-era writers to do in an age before archeology..
@@jehl1963 How could archeologists know the Hittites existed without evidence? And your quote *Yet the Bible not only mentions them at the appropriate times* Joshua puts the Hittites in Canaan, a mortal enemy of Egypt who ruled Canaan. How? The writers were unaware that Egypt ruled Canaan. The Egyptians did not get along with the Hittites. Battle of Kadesh (1274 BCE) Egypt and the Hittites battle to a draw
Conspicuous absence of evidence IS evidence of absence. The Egyptians documented everything, but there is no mention anywhere of a series of plagues followed by a widespread slave rebellion led by an Egyptian prince that resulted in massive losses for the Egyptians. There isn't even any evidence that Israelites WERE ever enslaved by Egypt. The entire Exodus story is made up.
@@fordprefect5304 I'm not sure if you are inaccurately attributing the modern idea of a border to the ancient world. Borders in the ancient world tended to be a geographic feature like a river, with occasional guard-houses on the main roads. Nothing like the the Berlin wall. Also, just because politically the Egyptian government didn't get along with the Hittite Government didn't mean that they removed every last Hittite who might be in the land when the boarder moved. There would be traders, nomadic farmers and others who would move around. The Bible doesn't suggest that there were cities of Hittites are anything like that, but rather individuals -- which is why Abraham was referred to as negotiating with Ephron from " the sons of Heth" ( חֵֽת׃ לִבְנֵי־ ), and later in that section Ephron is referred to as "THE Hittite" ( הַחִתִּ֤י). He wouldn't be referred to as "THE Hittite" if there were thousands of Hittites around. Not to mention, as Gilan wrote in his article "Hittites in Canaan", there are relatively numerous Hittite finds in Palestine dating to the empire period, which is unlike other areas outside Anatolia, where their traces are few. For example Hittite cremation burials have also been found near the modern Amman airport -- cremation was unknown among the Canaanites. Hittite jugs were found in a Megiddo tomb dating from about 1600-1200 BCE. A 14th Century BCE Hittite document titled "Deeds of Suppiluliuma" recounts how the "...sons of Hatti, and carried them to Egypt". Note the expression "sons of Hatti", paralleling the Biblical "sons of Heth". Archibald Henry Sayce in 1905 also found Hittite "Trichromatic Cappadocian Ware" in Gezer, -- dated to the 12th Dynasty of Egypt. So the archeology actually does support the Bible in regards to Hittites in Palestine during the 20th to 18th centuries BCE.
6:07 - It actually doesn't say 'the Shaddai gods' on the inscription, but rather, 'the Shaddaiyin' or, if we actually translate it, 'the Almighty Ones'. It's the Aramaic masculine plural of Shaddai, translated 'Almighty' usually in the Bible. The language of this remarkably underappreciated inscription has many similarities to the Book of Job, which is credited to Moses. The Septuagint version of Job even says that Job is written about in an Aramaic (Syriac) book. Ah, I spoke too soon. 6:12 🧐😎
The search continues, I really appreciate these videos. I grew up with a few people encouraging me to read Ron Wyatts Books, even as a kid I smelt something fishy. Just his story about "finding the Ark of the covenant, with living blood of Jesus" was way too fantastical. Then recently after a crisis of Faith someone tried to say how Ron Wyatts books will help me "Believe" more deeply, and while the person was good natured I nearly laughed in his face, but I thanked him and politely said not to worry I KNOW who Ron is. Great breakdown, you just keep brining me in. :P I love this because, while I am 100% open to Biblical figures being historic, I hate the Lying and misdirection many people use to pretend there's more solid evidence than we actually have. I personally see that as very immoral as it, 1) warps peoples perception on how Science works 2)Makes people assume there's a major cover up on the "Obvious evidence" causing a lot of hostility.
Given that less than 5% of the land of the Bible has been excavated, there have been some wonderful finds. Check out Expedition Bible (RUclips), the Associates for Biblical Research (RUclips), and books and talks by Dr. Titus Kennedy. Importantly, all of these address the limits of archaeology, what is or is not reasonable regarding expectations of finds, and red tape and biases that can hinder digs and the publishing of research, etc.
There's a lotta great evidence for prominent Biblical accounts and little ones as well, but Ron Wyatt is no source of serious information on the subject, that's for sure
OMG... When I was a teenager in the 1990's, I sent a letter to a dinosaur comic book. Then I start getting mail from some disciple of Wyatt's trying to convince me that this fellow has found Noah's Ark and this and that. Luckily I had enough knowledge in both geology and theology to refute his Creationism, but not enough to experience to not bother replying at all 😆
For what it’s worth, the story of Aladdin is beloved by many Americans. There’s even an American movie with Robin Williams as the voice of the genie. However, I don’t think it would be accurate to claim “One Thousand and One Nights” is an American folk tale. Same thing applies to Jewish stories about locations like the Cave of the Patriarchs. While I don’t for a second believe it’s the actual burial place of any Patriarchs, it seems weird to describe a story that predates the birth of Muhammad by hundreds of years as an “Islamic tradition.”
As a Christian, I don’t know why there was even a mention of it….since we all know the Quran doesn’t have substance compared to the Bible. I’m with you, why trust the accounts of a culture that dates thousands of years after the original descendants of a different religion that never claimed to know where their body is/was. Very misleading and wasteful on a video that could’ve actually talked about Bronze Age places that relate to these characters such as Moses & Joseph with Avaris.
Because it was Islam that preserved the site and kept the tradition? Would you say that the Dome of the Rock is not part of Islamic tradition? It's literally based on the same exact myth.
The physical building is Islamic, just as the movie Aladdin is American. The story, however, is exactly as Islamic as the story of Aladdin is American.
On a related note, is Caliph Umar actually verified by contemporary sources? My understanding is that Umar is not mentioned by name in the writings of Sophronius and is not attested in any contemporary epigraphy, numismatics, or other written sources. I believe that Mu'awiya is actually the first safely attested non-Byzantine ruler of the Levant in the 7th century.
Great video, I love having all of the different voices from their backgrounds, I found ravens critique, to be disappointing and more of her just explaining what she found on a few quick Google searches
The account in the Book of Exodus dovetails nicely from the reign of Ramseses 2 to Ramseses 3. Just before the Bronze Age Collapse and into the Iron Age.
Definitely true in a lot of cases. There’s so many instances of things that were so ubiquitous to people in the ancient/classical world that they didn’t even feel the need to write it down. It’s like how we don’t have books written about how to use can openers today.
I find it very logical that you wouldn’t find « scientific » proof of many of these things. It happened way too long ago. And scientists don’t take into account the miracle aspect which make them unable to correctly research those things. For instance in one of his videos he claimed Solomon’s army never existed because such a huge army would let traces. But here is the thing, I don’t know if bout the Bible but the Quran says Solomon’s army counted animals and djinns which explains the huge army. But scientists would never consider that therefore they’re inept to learn about those things since they already assume it doesn’t exist and they know everything
32:36 The only real conclusion I can draw from this is. How poorly we have recorded our own history. We are truly a species of amnesia. But, honestly that's the only constant besides time you can count on. The fact that what is written and recorded doesn't do what really happened justice. Even, now days with cameras. They don't do it justice.
What about the Pharoah?, he’s mentioned in the exodus as well. We know a lot about the late Bronze Age Pharoahs of the New Kingdom. Many people have pointed to Ramses II or Thutmose III to be this person. However, just like Hammurabi, there’s no 100% concrete mention but these Pharoahs may have ruled around 500 years before Shoshenq I.
The fact that the text does not mention the name of the pharaoh indicates that he's simply being used as a stock character rather than representing someone specific.
~10:20 Small correction, while Proto-Sinaitic is ancestral to many Alphabetic scripts, it is not technically an Alphabetic script itself, instead being an Abjab like its Phoenician and Paleo-Hebrew descendants (the Phoenician script is often erroneously called an alphabet itself, so this kind of confusion is pretty common)
Why no mention of the Ipuwer papyrus that talks about the plagues and calamities brought on Egypt through Moses? Also archaeologist Joel Kramer has a channel here called Bible expedition with solid archaeological evidence for the events in the old testament.
This was very interesting! Some religious people don't seem to understand that even if all of the people in their religious texts were historical figures thats not evidence that anything supernatural happened.
That's like saying there is evidence for all the gods of people who were killed by Christians for not converting. Dying for your belief isn't evidence that belief is true.
@@aaaaaaa7697 Because, it is quite common for people to believe things happened that did not actually happen. You could start with the unreliability of eyewitness testimony and keeping going to delusions and so on.
@@aaaaaaa7697 I see this. But there really is not any real way to for you to reasonably rebut. Is it more probable that a particular group of people on an occasion had a common human experience, or magic is real. The more probable is the former and not the latter.
@@aaaaaaa7697 I am not sure you understand the assertion. Of course it is more probable, even if the number of deluded where in the millions. When considering a common human experience, one would have billions of exemplars across the entirety of human existence. For the empirically verifiable instances of magic, one has precisely zero instances ever. With regards to your statement; "the persecution that each were willing to face." That is a complete non-sequitur to the issue of probability of belief. That is an indication that you fail to understand the line of argument.
What a banger episode!!! Several of my fave RUclipsrs joining their scholarly forces for the good of all YT! Plus some people who are new to me expanding the range of perspectives on this topic. Will be exploring those channels, too. 🙂
Can you all do a video on David Rohl's New Chronology and whether or not you believe in it or not? Also, good video btw, I hope you do more of these soon.
As far as I can tell, pretty much the only qualified Egyptologist who thinks there is any merit in Rohl's New Chronology is Douglas Petrovich, whose theories are equally fringe. The channel Ancient Egypt and the Bible has a video explaining why it isn't taken seriously in academia (basically that it is incompatible with dozens of synchronisms - pieces of evidence that two people lived at the same time).
No one should try to defend Ron Wyatt's methods and haphazard work. But that does not mean Ron was completely wrong. Matt said Egypt 🇪🇬 loves checking on things for tourism. Well, that's what Turkey did with that ark thingy. Turkey declared it the ark for tourism. More and more experts are coming to the realization that Mt. Sinai is in northern Saudi Arabia, which means Ron's guess of where the Crossing was is worth more research.
I just want to personally thank you Matt. As someone who recently (within the last few years) left a Christian cult your videos have given me such clarity and direction. You are truly doing more than presenting facts, you are offering a “healing balm” of sorts for those of us most deeply wounded by the fanatically religious. 🙏
For some reason i can't explain.. such topics fills me with pride and nostalgia to the good old days when I was a kid living in peace with my family in Syria
@@i.willacceptfood9352 People who would have been atheists if they weren't under threat of being excommunicated, exiled, or executed if they honestly expressed themselves?
@@i.willacceptfood9352 I think you're seriously missing the joke. Pareidolia is, to quote Meriam-Webster, "the tendency to perceive a specific, often meaningful image in a random or ambiguous visual pattern," playing on the idea of 1) people seeing Jesus's face on toast, a famous example of this phenomenon, and 2) Ron Wyatt supposedly seeing Hebrew or Phoenician traits and inscriptions on a pair of otherwise nondescript and poorly-recorded pillars.
I would like to see a video in this format about the tribes of Israel. I would also like to echo another comment I saw asking for a video about the God Yahwey. I'd be curious to see what the real archeology says. I'd also like to see a video about early Christianity circa 200ad and thereabouts. Only real archeological finds. Thanks!
I think Wyatt made some interesting discoveries especially in Midian to be fair He did say the Saudi Arabian Authorities took his camera equipment for that Pillar I don't think it's conclusive evidence of anything but interesting none the less
Maybe I'm misunderstanding a part here. When Matt Baker says that the Bronze age sections were written in the Iron age does he mean created or transcribed? Religions "stories", or "texts", are famous for being very persistent over centuries even in oral traditions which is what Bronze age would have been. We can trace Aboriginal American stories back though images for centuries. I would assume that if we had a Time Machine we could take our story of Ruth back to the 12th or 14th century BC and Priests would be completely familiar with it in detail. I would also assume they would have the same knowledge of its Historicity as we do. Which ain't much. I think we can also assume they would have "stories" that weren't preserved and different versions of "stories" that were. I also would not be surprised to find a few of the "stories" of that period were created new during the exile.
Matt has consistently sided with the sceptical end of scholarship which believes that none of the books existed in the bronze age. Realitically, it's only the five books of the Torah and the book of Joshua which could have existed as early as the Bronze age. The appearance of Israelite culture in the archaeological record is pretty much at the transition point between the late bronze age and early iron age periods (which is one of many reasons why most of those scholars who think the Exodus happened date it to the 13th century BC). When it comes to the book of Ruth, it's a story about King David's grandmother. So if the story is true then it almost certainly happened in the 11th century BC.
@@stephengray1344 Thanks. I always felt the extreme skeptical end of this ignored too much broader cultural and archaeological context. But - that's fine.
@@stephengray1344 *Realitically, it's only the five books of the Torah and the book of Joshua which could have existed as early as the Bronze age* No they date themselves as iron Age creations. They mention peoples and places that did not exist in the Bronze age.
@@fordprefect5304 My point was that these are the only narrative books whose events even take place in the Bronze Age - with Joshua being set pretty much at the transition point between Bronze Age and Iron Age I'm struggling to think of any people or places mentioned in these texts that did not exist in the Bronze age. I can think of elements of the text that look like they are at least based on Bronze Age sources (the structure of the Mosaic covenant in both Exodus and Deuteronomy being the same as those of the Hittite kings, the Exodus route matching the period of the 18th Dynasty).
@@stephengray1344 [Genesis 11] 11:27 Now these are the descendants of Terah. Terah was the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran was the father of Lot. 11:28 Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his birth, in * of the Chaldeans* *The Chaldeans do not take control of Babylon (UR) until 616BCE* [Genesis 36] 31 These are the kings who reigned in the *land of Edom* , before any king reigned over the Israelites. 32 Bela son of Beor reigned in Edom, the name of his city being Dinhabah. 33 Bela died, and Jobab son of *Zerah of Bozrah* succeeded him as king. The Edomite capital of Bozrah. When excavated Bozrah was discovered to have come into existence no earlier than the 8th century BC (the 700's BC)! Dated to 725BCE
You know what’s funny, it’s the fact that this channel (Useful Chart) Matt baker has done multiple videos featuring other RUclipsrs who he tries to represent to us as unbiased or purely secular (including himself), since he purports to be a progressive/cultural jew he saw no issue nor any unbalance in inviting atheists/agnostics and a Muslim to this Video. I guess he thinks that he will remain to be viewed as unbiased no matter how many unbalanced choices for guests he makes. In his other series regarding the historicity of Moses/Jesus/Mohammed. Which is the funniest thing ever, since he - not believing in the inspiration of the torah, nor in any other book of the Old Testament, nor their historicity - choose to pick Moses; concluding his video by saying that “Moses was most likely a myth” I assume cause he viewed himself as a “jew”. But get this, the figure of Jesus Christ was picked by the channel (Let’s talk religion), which is run by a person who thinks that, questioning the existence of Jesus is not illogical or historically illiterate; entertaining all sorts of whacky theories about Christ. Finally, he ends his video about Jesus by saying that “Jesus probably existed”, while still allowing room for Jesus mythicist to be credible and feel comfortable in their “improbable assumptions” since he didn’t rule it out. Finally, Al Muqaddimah run by a Muslim and not a cultural muslim, but a regular doctrine believing muslim. He picked Muhammad. Shocking am i right? Sigh.. the conclusion of his video ends with the statement that “Mohammed most likely existed”, adding the caveat That if Mohammed didn’t exist, we should be careful & considerate not to announce that to the world since there’re more than 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, who it would be problematic for them to hear that. Hmmm… why would Truth need to worry about the reaction of the masses? Be they Muslims, Christians, or of any other religious affiliation? Sounds like an extremely fair and an unbiased presenter who - not wanting to upset the muslim umma if the truth was in fact that Mohammed didn’t exist - chose implicit scare tactics to honest scholars out there. I know that this is a lengthy comment, whether you’re a Christian or not, Just be very careful whenever you watch something from the aforementioned channels since they’re credibility or whatever is left of it is not that much. May god guide us and those Presenters to the truth. 🌹
Saudi Arabia has always taken its role as the guardian of Islam against all other religions seriously. Since Islam was created after Mohammed was not allowed to convert to Judaism, it has a hatred of Judaism (and its off-shoot Christianity) from its beginning, so the Saudis have blocked official archaeology studies of areas under their control that support acts mentioned in the Hebrew Tanakh (a.k.a. "Old Testament"). The primary one is the area that meets ALL the descriptions of the Mt. Sinai encampment listed in the Old Testament/Tanakh.
Following up on an earlier comment, I'm not ascribing any ill intent to Syawish Rehman for attributing the association of the Cave of the Patriarchs to "the traditions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam." Whether Abraham was buried in this cave or if he even existed is a question of theology and belief. However, the reason this site is known as the Cave of the Patriarchs has nothing to do with Christian or Islamic tradition, as Syawish claimed. I don't think anyone disputes that it's a historical fact supported by archeological evidence that Jews were claiming this to be the location where Abraham was buried for literally thousands of years before Christianity or Islam existed. I certainly agree with the larger point that the existence of this tradition about where Abraham is buried is by no means evidence of Abraham himself. However, while Christianity and Islam may share this tradition, it is simply incorrect to say the association with the Patriarchs is in any way "because of" those traditions, as it significantly predates them. It would sort of like saying "according to Christian tradition, the Colosseum in Rome was the site of mock battles and fights among gladiators." Maybe not "wrong," but highly misleading, and I hope we can agree that getting the order of events right is an important aspect of archeology.
On the Sinai Tablets, Maat is a sensible translation. But I have serious contention with the growing idea in academia that Mashe or Moshe means "born of". The text in the book of Exodus clearly states his name was derived from "מְשִׁיתִֽהוּ" or "mshjthv", whose base word is "drawn from". I also believe it is a egyptian word. The hieroglyphic sign is three waves followed by a tether, followed by a tether. To corral from as if with rope.
When you said Matt Baker it made me think of Boney M's Ma Baker hahaha! Don't anybody move, the money or your lives! Freeze, I'm Ma Baker. Put your hands in the air and gimme all your money!
@@kellydalstok8900 Haha! I'm actually 35. I'll be 36 this year. I know them because of my baby boomer parents, aunts and uncles heh heh! I dig oldies! My dad worked for the Brazilian MTV when I was little.
Hi Mr Baker @usefulcharts, I’m a great admirer of your work. Thanks for educating us. I have a question regarding Your comment in 21:10 re: Joseph. In the Patterns of Evidence “Exodus” film (2014), that I’d think you’ve probably have seen, they explain additional evidence that leads to believe it was actually Joseph’s house (pyramid like tomb, a house with 12 pillars and 12 tombs, etc). Wouldn’t this movie pose a solid case for the evidence of the Exodus?… I’m not an expert; just curious. Thanks for your consideration.
I am disappointed that perspective of this video implies if there are no actual names from the Bronze Age verified in outside sources that Biblical material set in the Bronze Age is inauthentic. Consider: 1. Ancient names are notoriously difficult to ascertain between cultures and languages - especially ancient. 2. Mat or Maat is an ancient Egyptian goddess/concept. It would make sense for her to be mentioned in Sinai. However, the "W" like letter in the Sinai inscriptions is indeed very like that which makes the "S" sound in modern semitic languages. 3. There is much cultural evidence in the Bible that fits with the Bronze Age which would not have been known in later ages, until rediscovered in the 19th-21st centuries (personal name styles, customs, laws, etc.) 4. Archaeological evidence such as the Mount Ebal tablet, Hittites and strata of Jerico (beyond Kathleen Kenyon's conjecture) sets the milieu of accuracy for Bronze Age Biblical stories. This is disregarded. 5. TREND is the operative word. The trend in archaeological discoveries tends to confirm, rather than contradict, settings and situations, and at times people, in the Bible.
Christian here. The Bible is not a science document. Even St. Augustine and other church fathers said as much. And while it is fun to dunk on evangelical literalist nonsense like this, James Hoffmeier is an Egyptologist that has produced well-reviewed, highly cited, peer-reviewed papers for decades. So let’s make sure we highlight the believing scientists/archaeologists that produce good work too. I just hate it when the charlatans make us all look bad.
Is your faith predicated on the historicity of any of the stories from the Hebrew Bible? If so, why? Wouldn’t it be more likely that the Hebrew Bible represents people trying to relate to the divine in their own context rather than god revealing himself once and for all to one small, select group?
@@Exjewatlarge it's more of a bridge between the material world and the divine, and the stories are in many way parables on how the be in tune with the divine and how to be a moral and upstanding person based on the the moral baseline of (in this case Jesus Christ/God) and no, it is not as simple as to say being moral (based on Christian ethics) is a natural thing without having the Bible. As history has shown before, during and after the revelations of God, we humans are quite creative in hurting each other for as sorts of reasons, majority of which have been for non-religious reasons.
@@maverick7291 this is not the place to argue over what has motivated the most human malice throughout history but even if the majority of it were motivated by “non-religious” reasons, whatever that means, it doesn’t get organized religion off the hook even in the least. Besides, the reasons for human malice or goodwill can all be attributed to stories, narratives and meanings that we ascribe. It’s a matter of which story leads to the most human flourishing and in my experience, while it seems to enrich some people’s lives, religious narratives fall short of that when compared to what they offer.
There is no evidence at all of a large population of people wandering around the Sinai for 40 years. However, there is evidence that the Canaanites are actually the people who became known (around the time of the Late Bronze Age collapse) as Israelites.
The whole Moses yarn is obviously made up. Just the fact that the pharaoh goes unnamed, just like every king, queen, prince and princess in fairytales, is a dead giveaway. It’s not easy to make up stories that were supposed to be written several centuries before when you don’t know much about the places where they are set.
Always funny when these videos bring out both the "The bible is 100% literally true" Christians AND the "The bible is 100% completely false and made up" Atheists. There's the real ambitious crossover
The Bible is nothing like Harry Potter. The Harry Potter series was written by a single author with a single goal (to tell a good story) and it was completed within a relatively short frame of time. The Bible, on the other hand, is a mix of many genres written by dozens, if not hundreds of different people over a timespan of at least 1000 years, during which time the motivations for writing changed significantly. For example, the Book of Kings is quite clearly primarily a historical book (albeit with some supernatural elements added, which was common for all cultures at the time) and this is evidenced by the amount of archaeological finds that back it up. In contrast, the Flood narrative is quite clearly mythology. So, the OP is spot on. The two sides both believe that the Bible is just one thing and that broad, sweeping generalizations can be said about it when in reality this is not true.
@UsefulCharts The Bible is a fictional story about people with magical powers that contains real historical events- Just like that commentor said, and just like Harry Potter. The comparison was It's content, not it's authorship and composition. No one said anything about that. Your response is surprisingly bad faith, just to paint a dishonest equivalency between people who think the Earth is 3000 years old and people who don't believe in magic.
@@JebeckyGranjolaAspiringauthor here. Fiction is an often misused comparison when people discuss the Bible. Fiction as we know it is almost entirely modern.
@@JebeckyGranjola He mentioned the authorship, timeframe, motivation and literary conventions, all of which are different to Harry Potter. It's not a good comparison and it's dishonest to frame it as if it were. If Harry Potter is eventually compiled from dozens or hundreds of different authors following different conventions and making different points on theology, law, ethics, history and the fate of a people then I could start seeing strong similarities. As it stands now it's an oversimplification and a bad faith argument that only serves to devalue the Bible ("it is just fiction with supernatural elements"). I'm not Jewish or Christian but I love the Bible from a scholarly lens, and as personal as this feels for me it's even more disrespectful to people who hold the text as sacred. Just don't.
Get a 7-day free trial and 40% off Blinkist Annual Premium by clicking bit.ly/UsefulChartsMay24 or by scanning the QR code.
It's a good video bro. Pretty through. Probably spent too much time on whoever that random documentary guy was.
I guess for me, what would be really compelling is if you did something way outside of your expertise, which is a statistical informational analysis based on the information density over time, and how much information we would expect to be preserved based on the events depicted.
My current stance is that all we would expect to have from so back is the ancillary evidence. At least from the pre-saul era that is. But If that were demonstrated to be false, then that would, ya know, make the lack of evidence actually unexpected.
Why the archeologist just use Carbon dating?
The rashidun caliphate did extract a special tax from non Muslims.
@ReligionForBreakfast
In the Hebrew Bible the river is called "Jordan River" and the Sea is called ים פלשתים (yām pə-li-tמm) "Sea of Palestine". “From the river to the sea Palestine will be free,” part of it "sea Palestine " is Biblical. 3000 years ago the sea was "Sea of Palestine"
@@ShalomSalam-jw7ot by that logic Jews are Palestinians
Imagine being Amminadab, fresh into the iron-age, with your iron tools and your iron weapons, meanwhile your dad, Ram, is still living in the bronze-age, embarassing you in front of your friends with his inferior alloys.
😂
The point is the quality of use, whats the point of nice bronze sword if it cant compete with Iron Sword? Unless u want to store it for Future Generation lol@oivinf
🤣it could have been me, all right. i embarrassed my children on daily bases. LOL
200th like
Hahahahaha
What an honor to appear alongside so many great RUclipsrs! Thanks for the invite!
What a pleasure to see you guys working together!
Absolute dream mashup, so cool of you to do this!
Love your stuff, Andrew. I watch *religiously*
Love you channel as well. Thanks.
Top 10 greatest youtube crossovers
That “commemorative plaque” in Saudi Arabia says right on it that it is “Red Sea Coastal Survey”. So it is what it says a survey marker, not a commemorative plaque.
😂😂😂😂 Nice one. 👍
also why would Saudi Arabia remove it?
its not about or smth which would damage Saudi Arabia's ruling dynasty or smth
@@hokton8555 Could be because its located in an inconvenient place and it happens that they need to tidy up the place. Like, for reasons unrelated to archeology at all.
@@hokton8555 the kingdom has a history of removing shrines and historic monuments to discourage religious "innovation". It's why the tombs and shrines of the sahabah have been removed when the ruling family took control and moved the kingdom towards a strict salafih form of Islam. Salafihs are very extreme with what they consider innovations and harmful to Islam. Many Sufi practices are considered innovations by Salafis. It's harming and changing religious cultural practices in historically Hanafi and Sufi regions that have a large influx of Saudi funding and tourism.
@@eveninghousetechnician832 Inlaws are coming over! ALL OF THEM!
“We do have the name of someone from the Bronze Era you probably know”
Me: “Ea-Nasir?????”
Bad copper
@@ahmedisl8Very bad copper
@@ahmedisl8As it turns out he may not have been selling bad copper after all but rather had a few customers that tried to scam him over the years. We don't actually know the truth and it's a shame that the negative interpretation of the man has become so famous.
This weird joke doesn't ever die.
@@SAOS451316 Found Ea-Nasir's brother's account. Let it rest man, it's been millennia.
With the Egyptian Pharoah being the oldest confirmed person on this list, does it make it "Shoshenq's Redemption"?
lol I had the same thought, I was just casually listening but that suddenly caught my attention like "wait, did he just say Shawshank?"
Next up, The Phantom Merneptah, followed by Attack of the Cush, and Revenge of the Seth.
@@BrandanLee I love and hate those puns in equal measure. Bravo.
😆😂🤣🤣😂😅😁 As a former mentor for Education for Ministry, this is the best set of puns yet!
I heard him say that name and every time I thought: "That sounds like something or someone I know, but what?!" It was Shawshank, thank you, it annoyed me greatly that I couldn't remember... ;-)
So silly of me to forget to take photos of the archaeological evidence I find when filming my history-changing documentary.
LOL
Honest mistake
happens to the best of us...
Graduate of Trust Me Bro University
@julieblair7472 à la Ron Wyatt? Yeah, funny how that always happens 😅...
Thanks so much for having me! Had a lot of fun researching Mat the miner! Good company to be in.
Mat the Miner sounds like a character from a children's book. It was a nice presentation, thank you!
Most ambitious crossover since Endgame.
I really liked this and love the collaboration, but I have some quibbles as someone trained in Archaeology. Matt Baker should point out that thinking you can find archaeological evidence of someone specifically from the Bronze age is just really Bizarre. Egypt and Babylon were almost unique on having writing as a common-ish technology. We don't have names from the Minoan Civilization, or really from Mycenaeans either. The Homeric Epics are from Mycenaean origins, but don't provide a name list. I think this point should be framed as the kind of evidence of individuals that exist from the Iron age was a result of the shift to all sorts of new technologies. It just wasn't a thing in the Bronze age. Any evidence of Moses should be treated with the greatest skepticism on simple dating. It's is as bad as wondering why you don't find steel, because it's the Bronze age and they didn't do that then.
👏
You could do a collab with Esoterica channel for a timeline chart of Yahweh.
Absolutely!
This!! Tbh Esoterica's Yahweh series is so long that I get lost listening to it. A chart would go a long way
@@stereomachine Yes.
I guess the vibes do not mix.
But hey, anyone can dream
Esoterica is an amazing and well made Channel. 👏 🎉
So Ron found a 3000 year old pillar in Egypt that had carvings when he found it, and in the same location within a few years all the carvings had eroded away? 🤔🤔
Press X to doubt?
He found a historic piece that became pre historic. LoL
It hit the expiration date, happens more than you'd think
This is like Woodstock for no-nonsense educational Biblical archaeology. Now we just need to get Miniminuteman in here.
Don't forget Milo. Need an Ancient Historian.
Has he covered any bible topics? I love him, just not sure this is his area
Also need Dan McClellan
Was hoping Stefan Milo would join but it didn't work out.
@@UsefulChartsthat would have been such a good addition. Love that guy.
About the disarticulated bones from the sea floor, I was under the impression that they dissolve in about 5 years, but I just looked it up and they can dissolve in about 1 years time.
17:24 “people erect religious monuments all the time”. Although not religious, Hans Brinker immediately crossed my mind.
He was made up by an American author, based on an older story. It’s about a boy that saved the day by putting his thumb in a hole in a dyke. A lot of Americans thought it really happened, so when they visited the Netherlands asked where it happened.
So the Dutch put up a statue of made up Hans near Haarlem, a city close to Amsterdam. It’s now imported Dutch folklore.
There is actually a real story that is a bit similar. In 1953, with the North Sea Flood, a piece of a dyke near Rotterdam was destroyed by the water. Thousands of lives were in danger. A captain nearby drove his boat in the gap and saved Rotterdam and environment.
This is also what really happens when a dyke break through. When you see water coming through the dyke, it’s already too late. That part of the dyke will collapse soon.
The part of this which interests me is that "based on an older story.". I wonder if anyone has traced the story back to folklore and if the folklore comes out of Dutch colonial America.
Perhaps not. But the story does seem like it COULD come out of that kind of cultural history
So much bad history boils down to “just because something looks like something doesn’t mean that it is that something.”
3 of my favorite channels in a colab. This must turn out good.
4:10 I love that this came out in time for parshat Balak, the weekly Torah reading where Balaam makes his appearance!
I always thought that Judeans/Israelis being "slaves in Egypt" and then being "freed" might just be some memory of Egypt conquering them before they regained their independence.
I believe there's a theory that the Hyksos, mentioned as adversaries of the Egyptians, were a Semetic people who ruled over them and were driven out of Egypt at one point. Perhaps the Exodus is a culture memory of this?
I heard a theory that Israel was a mix of escaped Egyptian slaves and Canaanites and maybe the escaped Egyptian slaves became the story of Exodus.
@@Darthweezeripuwer papyrus?
Ipuwer papyrus?
@@JP-te5en ?
Religious Studies Justice League! Academic Avengers Assemble!
Love the trio
☪️✝️✡️
What do you mean
@@natybar-yosef9931 its a reference to "team ups" from American comic books. The "avengers" and the "justice legue" are teams made up of diverse groups of heros who are also famous on their own (superman and batman in the justice league, for example) who combine their skills. This video is similar in that its several existing religious studies channels who have brought their specific skills together to examine the same topic.
@@imaginarycartography
You understand how the bible work ?
Tell us how the Bible work@@natybar-yosef9931
At about 22:00 you write off Moses as a literary character. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It would most likely be safer to say that he has not been attested to in the archeolgical record.
On the other hand, you omit a huge Bronze Age Biblical reference which was not attested to in the archeological record -- until it was. This is the Hittites. Until the mid-19th century, the only references to the Hittites were in the Bible. This Bronze-age culture was lost to the Greeks and the Romans. Yet the Bible not only mentions them at the appropriate times, but also accurately alludes to their changing political structures - something that would have been virtually impossible for Babylonian-exile-era writers to do in an age before archeology..
*This is the Hittites* Hatta the Hittite capital existed in Anatolia. It was ruled by the Ottomans who did not let Christians explore. Simple as that.
@fordprefect5304 I'm not sure that I get your point. Could you explain it further?
@@jehl1963 How could archeologists know the Hittites existed without evidence?
And your quote
*Yet the Bible not only mentions them at the appropriate times*
Joshua puts the Hittites in Canaan, a mortal enemy of Egypt who ruled Canaan.
How?
The writers were unaware that Egypt ruled Canaan.
The Egyptians did not get along with the Hittites.
Battle of Kadesh (1274 BCE) Egypt and the Hittites battle to a draw
Conspicuous absence of evidence IS evidence of absence. The Egyptians documented everything, but there is no mention anywhere of a series of plagues followed by a widespread slave rebellion led by an Egyptian prince that resulted in massive losses for the Egyptians. There isn't even any evidence that Israelites WERE ever enslaved by Egypt.
The entire Exodus story is made up.
@@fordprefect5304 I'm not sure if you are inaccurately attributing the modern idea of a border to the ancient world. Borders in the ancient world tended to be a geographic feature like a river, with occasional guard-houses on the main roads. Nothing like the the Berlin wall. Also, just because politically the Egyptian government didn't get along with the Hittite Government didn't mean that they removed every last Hittite who might be in the land when the boarder moved. There would be traders, nomadic farmers and others who would move around. The Bible doesn't suggest that there were cities of Hittites are anything like that, but rather individuals -- which is why Abraham was referred to as negotiating with Ephron from " the sons of Heth" ( חֵֽת׃ לִבְנֵי־ ), and later in that section Ephron is referred to as "THE Hittite" ( הַחִתִּ֤י). He wouldn't be referred to as "THE Hittite" if there were thousands of Hittites around.
Not to mention, as Gilan wrote in his article "Hittites in Canaan", there are relatively numerous Hittite finds in Palestine dating to the empire period, which is unlike other areas outside Anatolia, where their traces are few. For example Hittite cremation burials have also been found near the modern Amman airport -- cremation was unknown among the Canaanites. Hittite jugs were found in a Megiddo tomb dating from about 1600-1200 BCE. A 14th Century BCE Hittite document titled "Deeds of Suppiluliuma" recounts how the "...sons of Hatti, and carried them to Egypt". Note the expression "sons of Hatti", paralleling the Biblical "sons of Heth". Archibald Henry Sayce in 1905 also found Hittite "Trichromatic Cappadocian Ware" in Gezer, -- dated to the 12th Dynasty of Egypt. So the archeology actually does support the Bible in regards to Hittites in Palestine during the 20th to 18th centuries BCE.
6:07 - It actually doesn't say 'the Shaddai gods' on the inscription, but rather, 'the Shaddaiyin' or, if we actually translate it, 'the Almighty Ones'. It's the Aramaic masculine plural of Shaddai, translated 'Almighty' usually in the Bible. The language of this remarkably underappreciated inscription has many similarities to the Book of Job, which is credited to Moses. The Septuagint version of Job even says that Job is written about in an Aramaic (Syriac) book.
Ah, I spoke too soon. 6:12 🧐😎
I look forward to watching your new video, at last, simple and easy English to non-native like me❤❤❤
Correction. "By the time they put pen too paper" that lasted till our age. They made copies of old stuff back then as well.
I was absent from watching RUclips vids on a regular-basis for a good 12 years. Now that I've discovered your channel I'm back to it, keep it up!
What an epic episode!! So enjoyable
The search continues, I really appreciate these videos. I grew up with a few people encouraging me to read Ron Wyatts Books, even as a kid I smelt something fishy. Just his story about "finding the Ark of the covenant, with living blood of Jesus" was way too fantastical. Then recently after a crisis of Faith someone tried to say how Ron Wyatts books will help me "Believe" more deeply, and while the person was good natured I nearly laughed in his face, but I thanked him and politely said not to worry I KNOW who Ron is.
Great breakdown, you just keep brining me in. :P I love this because, while I am 100% open to Biblical figures being historic, I hate the Lying and misdirection many people use to pretend there's more solid evidence than we actually have. I personally see that as very immoral as it, 1) warps peoples perception on how Science works 2)Makes people assume there's a major cover up on the "Obvious evidence" causing a lot of hostility.
Yeah, it doesn't encourage honest dialog, it's plain lying. Plus isn't the whole point of faith to believe in the absence of evidence?
Given that less than 5% of the land of the Bible has been excavated, there have been some wonderful finds. Check out Expedition Bible (RUclips), the Associates for Biblical Research (RUclips), and books and talks by Dr. Titus Kennedy. Importantly, all of these address the limits of archaeology, what is or is not reasonable regarding expectations of finds, and red tape and biases that can hinder digs and the publishing of research, etc.
There's a lotta great evidence for prominent Biblical accounts and little ones as well, but Ron Wyatt is no source of serious information on the subject, that's for sure
OMG... When I was a teenager in the 1990's, I sent a letter to a dinosaur comic book. Then I start getting mail from some disciple of Wyatt's trying to convince me that this fellow has found Noah's Ark and this and that. Luckily I had enough knowledge in both geology and theology to refute his Creationism, but not enough to experience to not bother replying at all 😆
What a feast of history, religion and archeology!!❤😍 totally enjoyed the vid thx for it
For what it’s worth, the story of Aladdin is beloved by many Americans. There’s even an American movie with Robin Williams as the voice of the genie. However, I don’t think it would be accurate to claim “One Thousand and One Nights” is an American folk tale. Same thing applies to Jewish stories about locations like the Cave of the Patriarchs. While I don’t for a second believe it’s the actual burial place of any Patriarchs, it seems weird to describe a story that predates the birth of Muhammad by hundreds of years as an “Islamic tradition.”
As a Christian, I don’t know why there was even a mention of it….since we all know the Quran doesn’t have substance compared to the Bible. I’m with you, why trust the accounts of a culture that dates thousands of years after the original descendants of a different religion that never claimed to know where their body is/was. Very misleading and wasteful on a video that could’ve actually talked about Bronze Age places that relate to these characters such as Moses & Joseph with Avaris.
Because it was Islam that preserved the site and kept the tradition? Would you say that the Dome of the Rock is not part of Islamic tradition? It's literally based on the same exact myth.
The physical building is Islamic, just as the movie Aladdin is American. The story, however, is exactly as Islamic as the story of Aladdin is American.
On a related note, is Caliph Umar actually verified by contemporary sources? My understanding is that Umar is not mentioned by name in the writings of Sophronius and is not attested in any contemporary epigraphy, numismatics, or other written sources. I believe that Mu'awiya is actually the first safely attested non-Byzantine ruler of the Levant in the 7th century.
@@NB-qo4dsCorrect
First topic was Balaam, just in time for Parashat Balak. Well done!
Balaam sounds like an interesting character. When the donkey starts talking I was utterly charmed.
Great video, I love having all of the different voices from their backgrounds, I found ravens critique, to be disappointing and more of her just explaining what she found on a few quick Google searches
And she is suuuuuper annoying
The account in the Book of Exodus dovetails nicely from the reign of Ramseses 2 to Ramseses 3. Just before the Bronze Age Collapse and into the Iron Age.
History the thing people think is not that important but is.
Definitely true in a lot of cases. There’s so many instances of things that were so ubiquitous to people in the ancient/classical world that they didn’t even feel the need to write it down. It’s like how we don’t have books written about how to use can openers today.
I find it very logical that you wouldn’t find « scientific » proof of many of these things. It happened way too long ago. And scientists don’t take into account the miracle aspect which make them unable to correctly research those things. For instance in one of his videos he claimed Solomon’s army never existed because such a huge army would let traces. But here is the thing, I don’t know if bout the Bible but the Quran says Solomon’s army counted animals and djinns which explains the huge army. But scientists would never consider that therefore they’re inept to learn about those things since they already assume it doesn’t exist and they know everything
I love these occasional collabs between all my favourite religious studies channels!❤
32:36 The only real conclusion I can draw from this is. How poorly we have recorded our own history. We are truly a species of amnesia. But, honestly that's the only constant besides time you can count on. The fact that what is written and recorded doesn't do what really happened justice. Even, now days with cameras. They don't do it justice.
Phenomenal video, as always. Was lovely to hear some different intelligent voices I never would’ve heard otherwise.
This collab is huge. I've watched a few videos from each of those channel, and seeing them collaborate is incredible 🥲
What about the Pharoah?, he’s mentioned in the exodus as well. We know a lot about the late Bronze Age Pharoahs of the New Kingdom. Many people have pointed to Ramses II or Thutmose III to be this person. However, just like Hammurabi, there’s no 100% concrete mention but these Pharoahs may have ruled around 500 years before Shoshenq I.
The fact that the text does not mention the name of the pharaoh indicates that he's simply being used as a stock character rather than representing someone specific.
Thanks for the update and great collaboration here just saying
11:04 those translations are so wildly different that it brings in to question if they even know how to teanlste that language
That is one of the big issues with the "Moses" translations . Scholars aren't sure we can 100% decipher these writings yet.
The crossover episode I didn't think of but now realize I greatly needed!
Dr David Falk has a large Playlist discussing ancient Egypt and the Exodus on his channel "Ancient Egypt and the Bible". Any comments on his work?
Would love to have him on here. Ip too.
So important that we have such scientific discussions.
~10:20 Small correction, while Proto-Sinaitic is ancestral to many Alphabetic scripts, it is not technically an Alphabetic script itself, instead being an Abjab like its Phoenician and Paleo-Hebrew descendants (the Phoenician script is often erroneously called an alphabet itself, so this kind of confusion is pretty common)
Taught me a new word. Abjab.
Paleo-Hebrew and Phoencian are almost identical, and Phoencian and Hebrew were dialects of the same language.
@@user-sh3cf7kd6e The difference between dialect and language is somewhat arbitrary to begin with, so that really isn't saying much.
@@Llortnerof
Well, that is also very important in what period exactly. They both began as the same and slowly diverged from one another.
Fascinating! Thank you for the scientific process and for inviting specialists for each domain!
Most ambitious crossover since the Doctor Who Series 4 finale
Is that comment inspired by a certain bow tie wearing gent?
"We couldn't bring up the artifacts because they don't tell the story we like"
- Story of History
Crossover episode awesome
This looks like the start of the Biblical Archaeology Cinematic Universe
Ramesses II belongs to the 19th, not the 18th dynasty.
Great video!
It's allway a pleasure to see Raven.
Excellent Matt, as always 👏👏
Why no mention of the Ipuwer papyrus that talks about the plagues and calamities brought on Egypt through Moses? Also archaeologist Joel Kramer has a channel here called Bible expedition with solid archaeological evidence for the events in the old testament.
finally! A usefulcharts and religionforbreakfast crossover!!!
This was very interesting!
Some religious people don't seem to understand that even if all of the people in their religious texts were historical figures thats not evidence that anything supernatural happened.
That's like saying there is evidence for all the gods of people who were killed by Christians for not converting. Dying for your belief isn't evidence that belief is true.
What historical event is "relatively impossible" without a miracle? Thought I would have heard about that one somewhere?
@@aaaaaaa7697 Because, it is quite common for people to believe things happened that did not actually happen. You could start with the unreliability of eyewitness testimony and keeping going to delusions and so on.
@@aaaaaaa7697 I see this. But there really is not any real way to for you to reasonably rebut.
Is it more probable that a particular group of people on an occasion had a common human experience, or magic is real. The more probable is the former and not the latter.
@@aaaaaaa7697 I am not sure you understand the assertion.
Of course it is more probable, even if the number of deluded where in the millions.
When considering a common human experience, one would have billions of exemplars across the entirety of human existence. For the empirically verifiable instances of magic, one has precisely zero instances ever.
With regards to your statement; "the persecution that each were willing to face." That is a complete non-sequitur to the issue of probability of belief. That is an indication that you fail to understand the line of argument.
This was a very good one, Thanks a lot!
13:48 Ron Wyatt has 'discovered' or 'found' every biblical artifact ever mentioned. 😂
What a banger episode!!! Several of my fave RUclipsrs joining their scholarly forces for the good of all YT! Plus some people who are new to me expanding the range of perspectives on this topic. Will be exploring those channels, too. 🙂
Can you all do a video on David Rohl's New Chronology and whether or not you believe in it or not?
Also, good video btw, I hope you do more of these soon.
No need for a video. I don't believe it.
As far as I can tell, pretty much the only qualified Egyptologist who thinks there is any merit in Rohl's New Chronology is Douglas Petrovich, whose theories are equally fringe. The channel Ancient Egypt and the Bible has a video explaining why it isn't taken seriously in academia (basically that it is incompatible with dozens of synchronisms - pieces of evidence that two people lived at the same time).
Great video, really enjoy the format where you bring in various other scholars
So the old axiom “If Ron Wyatt said it, it isn’t true” still holds up! 😅
No one should try to defend Ron Wyatt's methods and haphazard work.
But that does not mean Ron was completely wrong.
Matt said Egypt 🇪🇬 loves checking on things for tourism. Well, that's what Turkey did with that ark thingy. Turkey declared it the ark for tourism.
More and more experts are coming to the realization that Mt. Sinai is in northern Saudi Arabia, which means Ron's guess of where the Crossing was is worth more research.
Ive never liked this question. Like just because some stuff in the bible is accurate doesn't mean other stuff is.
I just want to personally thank you Matt. As someone who recently (within the last few years) left a Christian cult your videos have given me such clarity and direction. You are truly doing more than presenting facts, you are offering a “healing balm” of sorts for those of us most deeply wounded by the fanatically religious. 🙏
I appreciate you Matt. Been watching for almost 3 years now. I watch every video multiple times.
For some reason i can't explain.. such topics fills me with pride and nostalgia to the good old days when I was a kid living in peace with my family in Syria
Ron Wyatt got his Ph.D. from Pareidolia University.
Their mascot is an image of Jesus on a piece of toast.
@@i.willacceptfood9352 People who would have been atheists if they weren't under threat of being excommunicated, exiled, or executed if they honestly expressed themselves?
@@i.willacceptfood9352 quick question, are you capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time?
@@pupyfan69 What?
@@i.willacceptfood9352 I think you're seriously missing the joke. Pareidolia is, to quote Meriam-Webster, "the tendency to perceive a specific, often meaningful image in a random or ambiguous visual pattern," playing on the idea of 1) people seeing Jesus's face on toast, a famous example of this phenomenon, and 2) Ron Wyatt supposedly seeing Hebrew or Phoenician traits and inscriptions on a pair of otherwise nondescript and poorly-recorded pillars.
I would like to see a video in this format about the tribes of Israel. I would also like to echo another comment I saw asking for a video about the God Yahwey. I'd be curious to see what the real archeology says. I'd also like to see a video about early Christianity circa 200ad and thereabouts. Only real archeological finds. Thanks!
I think Wyatt made some interesting discoveries especially in Midian to be fair He did say the Saudi Arabian Authorities took his camera equipment for that Pillar I don't think it's conclusive evidence of anything but interesting none the less
First and For all I think that this was a splendid idea. Several People introduced, always by a "special youtuber". That was a great watch.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding a part here. When Matt Baker says that the Bronze age sections were written in the Iron age does he mean created or transcribed? Religions "stories", or "texts", are famous for being very persistent over centuries even in oral traditions which is what Bronze age would have been. We can trace Aboriginal American stories back though images for centuries. I would assume that if we had a Time Machine we could take our story of Ruth back to the 12th or 14th century BC and Priests would be completely familiar with it in detail. I would also assume they would have the same knowledge of its Historicity as we do. Which ain't much. I think we can also assume they would have "stories" that weren't preserved and different versions of "stories" that were. I also would not be surprised to find a few of the "stories" of that period were created new during the exile.
Matt has consistently sided with the sceptical end of scholarship which believes that none of the books existed in the bronze age. Realitically, it's only the five books of the Torah and the book of Joshua which could have existed as early as the Bronze age. The appearance of Israelite culture in the archaeological record is pretty much at the transition point between the late bronze age and early iron age periods (which is one of many reasons why most of those scholars who think the Exodus happened date it to the 13th century BC).
When it comes to the book of Ruth, it's a story about King David's grandmother. So if the story is true then it almost certainly happened in the 11th century BC.
@@stephengray1344 Thanks. I always felt the extreme skeptical end of this ignored too much broader cultural and archaeological context. But - that's fine.
@@stephengray1344 *Realitically, it's only the five books of the Torah and the book of Joshua which could have existed as early as the Bronze age*
No they date themselves as iron Age creations. They mention peoples and places that did not exist in the Bronze age.
@@fordprefect5304 My point was that these are the only narrative books whose events even take place in the Bronze Age - with Joshua being set pretty much at the transition point between Bronze Age and Iron Age
I'm struggling to think of any people or places mentioned in these texts that did not exist in the Bronze age. I can think of elements of the text that look like they are at least based on Bronze Age sources (the structure of the Mosaic covenant in both Exodus and Deuteronomy being the same as those of the Hittite kings, the Exodus route matching the period of the 18th Dynasty).
@@stephengray1344
[Genesis 11]
11:27 Now these are the descendants of Terah. Terah was the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran was the father of Lot.
11:28 Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his birth, in * of the Chaldeans*
*The Chaldeans do not take control of Babylon (UR) until 616BCE*
[Genesis 36]
31 These are the kings who reigned in the *land of Edom* , before any king reigned over the Israelites. 32 Bela son of Beor reigned in Edom, the name of his city being Dinhabah. 33 Bela died, and Jobab son of *Zerah of Bozrah* succeeded him as king.
The Edomite capital of Bozrah. When excavated Bozrah was discovered to have come into existence no earlier than the 8th century BC (the 700's BC)! Dated to 725BCE
What a crossover, thanks!
When @DigItWithRaven was on, the captions were wonked up compared to the rest of the video.
I'll check it
@@UsefulChartsThanks to you and your collaborators for all the hard work!
This is great. It was a treat to have Digital Hammurabi on.
I love how you keep true with facts.
"Certain religious circles"
Roughly 2 billion people.
You know what’s funny, it’s the fact that this channel (Useful Chart) Matt baker has done multiple videos featuring other RUclipsrs who he tries to represent to us as unbiased or purely secular (including himself), since he purports to be a progressive/cultural jew he saw no issue nor any unbalance in inviting atheists/agnostics and a Muslim to this Video. I guess he thinks that he will remain to be viewed as unbiased no matter how many unbalanced choices for guests he makes. In his other series regarding the historicity of Moses/Jesus/Mohammed. Which is the funniest thing ever, since he - not believing in the inspiration of the torah, nor in any other book of the Old Testament, nor their historicity - choose to pick Moses; concluding his video by saying that “Moses was most likely a myth” I assume cause he viewed himself as a “jew”. But get this, the figure of Jesus Christ was picked by the channel (Let’s talk religion), which is run by a person who thinks that, questioning the existence of Jesus is not illogical or historically illiterate; entertaining all sorts of whacky theories about Christ. Finally, he ends his video about Jesus by saying that “Jesus probably existed”, while still allowing room for Jesus mythicist to be credible and feel comfortable in their “improbable assumptions” since he didn’t rule it out. Finally, Al Muqaddimah run by a Muslim and not a cultural muslim, but a regular doctrine believing muslim. He picked Muhammad. Shocking am i right? Sigh.. the conclusion of his video ends with the statement that “Mohammed most likely existed”, adding the caveat That if Mohammed didn’t exist, we should be careful & considerate not to announce that to the world since there’re more than 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, who it would be problematic for them to hear that. Hmmm… why would Truth need to worry about the reaction of the masses? Be they Muslims, Christians, or of any other religious affiliation? Sounds like an extremely fair and an unbiased presenter who - not wanting to upset the muslim umma if the truth was in fact that Mohammed didn’t exist - chose implicit scare tactics to honest scholars out there.
I know that this is a lengthy comment, whether you’re a Christian or not, Just be very careful whenever you watch something from the aforementioned channels since they’re credibility or whatever is left of it is not that much.
May god guide us and those Presenters to the truth. 🌹
I love ReligionForBreakfasts segment
good timing, balak and bilaam were last week's parasha
Very interesting. thanks
This is a great video. I think for a lot of people it can be hard to understand the scale of time that the Old Testament covers.
Saudi Arabia has always taken its role as the guardian of Islam against all other religions seriously. Since Islam was created after Mohammed was not allowed to convert to Judaism, it has a hatred of Judaism (and its off-shoot Christianity) from its beginning, so the Saudis have blocked official archaeology studies of areas under their control that support acts mentioned in the Hebrew Tanakh (a.k.a. "Old Testament"). The primary one is the area that meets ALL the descriptions of the Mt. Sinai encampment listed in the Old Testament/Tanakh.
Great Collab!
I may have missed it, but I do not yet see a link to Raven's book. Where could I (pre-)order that?
Thx. Added it.
Following up on an earlier comment, I'm not ascribing any ill intent to Syawish Rehman for attributing the association of the Cave of the Patriarchs to "the traditions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam." Whether Abraham was buried in this cave or if he even existed is a question of theology and belief. However, the reason this site is known as the Cave of the Patriarchs has nothing to do with Christian or Islamic tradition, as Syawish claimed. I don't think anyone disputes that it's a historical fact supported by archeological evidence that Jews were claiming this to be the location where Abraham was buried for literally thousands of years before Christianity or Islam existed. I certainly agree with the larger point that the existence of this tradition about where Abraham is buried is by no means evidence of Abraham himself. However, while Christianity and Islam may share this tradition, it is simply incorrect to say the association with the Patriarchs is in any way "because of" those traditions, as it significantly predates them. It would sort of like saying "according to Christian tradition, the Colosseum in Rome was the site of mock battles and fights among gladiators." Maybe not "wrong," but highly misleading, and I hope we can agree that getting the order of events right is an important aspect of archeology.
I was hoping you would mention the alleged mention of the "Ishmaelites" in the Sennacherib Annals (the "Sumu'ilu") on Column VII Row 96.
Not bronze age
On the Sinai Tablets, Maat is a sensible translation. But I have serious contention with the growing idea in academia that Mashe or Moshe means "born of". The text in the book of Exodus clearly states his name was derived from "מְשִׁיתִֽהוּ" or "mshjthv", whose base word is "drawn from". I also believe it is a egyptian word. The hieroglyphic sign is three waves followed by a tether, followed by a tether. To corral from as if with rope.
When you said Matt Baker it made me think of Boney M's Ma Baker hahaha! Don't anybody move, the money or your lives! Freeze, I'm Ma Baker. Put your hands in the air and gimme all your money!
Your age is showing 😄 (and so is mine for recognising it).
@@kellydalstok8900 Haha! I'm actually 35. I'll be 36 this year. I know them because of my baby boomer parents, aunts and uncles heh heh! I dig oldies! My dad worked for the Brazilian MTV when I was little.
@@kellydalstok8900 Cute cat!
Hi Mr Baker @usefulcharts, I’m a great admirer of your work. Thanks for educating us. I have a question regarding Your comment in 21:10 re: Joseph. In the Patterns of Evidence “Exodus” film (2014), that I’d think you’ve probably have seen, they explain additional evidence that leads to believe it was actually Joseph’s house (pyramid like tomb, a house with 12 pillars and 12 tombs, etc). Wouldn’t this movie pose a solid case for the evidence of the Exodus?… I’m not an expert; just curious. Thanks for your consideration.
My two favorite channels - religion for breakfast and usefulcharts in one video 🦄
Same. I love the format and delivery of both. I would love to see many more such collaborations, especially with Matt and Andrew.
Thanks for the video and information
I am disappointed that perspective of this video implies if there are no actual names from the Bronze Age verified in outside sources that Biblical material set in the Bronze Age is inauthentic.
Consider:
1. Ancient names are notoriously difficult to ascertain between cultures and languages - especially ancient.
2. Mat or Maat is an ancient Egyptian goddess/concept. It would make sense for her to be mentioned in Sinai. However, the "W" like letter in the Sinai inscriptions is indeed very like that which makes the "S" sound in modern semitic languages.
3. There is much cultural evidence in the Bible that fits with the Bronze Age which would not have been known in later ages, until rediscovered in the 19th-21st centuries (personal name styles, customs, laws, etc.)
4. Archaeological evidence such as the Mount Ebal tablet, Hittites and strata of Jerico (beyond Kathleen Kenyon's conjecture) sets the milieu of accuracy for Bronze Age Biblical stories. This is disregarded.
5. TREND is the operative word. The trend in archaeological discoveries tends to confirm, rather than contradict, settings and situations, and at times people, in the Bible.
Christian here. The Bible is not a science document. Even St. Augustine and other church fathers said as much. And while it is fun to dunk on evangelical literalist nonsense like this, James Hoffmeier is an Egyptologist that has produced well-reviewed, highly cited, peer-reviewed papers for decades. So let’s make sure we highlight the believing scientists/archaeologists that produce good work too. I just hate it when the charlatans make us all look bad.
These guys doing vids are the equivalent of university woke students. Hate their own culture and will not give a full view of things.
Bless you
Is your faith predicated on the historicity of any of the stories from the Hebrew Bible? If so, why? Wouldn’t it be more likely that the Hebrew Bible represents people trying to relate to the divine in their own context rather than god revealing himself once and for all to one small, select group?
@@Exjewatlarge it's more of a bridge between the material world and the divine, and the stories are in many way parables on how the be in tune with the divine and how to be a moral and upstanding person based on the the moral baseline of (in this case Jesus Christ/God) and no, it is not as simple as to say being moral (based on Christian ethics) is a natural thing without having the Bible. As history has shown before, during and after the revelations of God, we humans are quite creative in hurting each other for as sorts of reasons, majority of which have been for non-religious reasons.
@@maverick7291 this is not the place to argue over what has motivated the most human malice throughout history but even if the majority of it were motivated by “non-religious” reasons, whatever that means, it doesn’t get organized religion off the hook even in the least. Besides, the reasons for human malice or goodwill can all be attributed to stories, narratives and meanings that we ascribe. It’s a matter of which story leads to the most human flourishing and in my experience, while it seems to enrich some people’s lives, religious narratives fall short of that when compared to what they offer.
You had me at Religion For Breakfast
The last 11 verses were not included in the early manuscripts of Mark.
Awesome video..!!
There is no evidence at all of a large population of people wandering around the Sinai for 40 years. However, there is evidence that the Canaanites are actually the people who became known (around the time of the Late Bronze Age collapse) as Israelites.
The whole Moses yarn is obviously made up. Just the fact that the pharaoh goes unnamed, just like every king, queen, prince and princess in fairytales, is a dead giveaway. It’s not easy to make up stories that were supposed to be written several centuries before when you don’t know much about the places where they are set.
*Part of the Canaanites are Israelies. Phoenicians, Moabites... are also Canaanites. All speaking roughly different dialects of the same language.
amazing video I love itttt
can you do a timeline chart of the nations of the Near East? Like, when was Moab called Moab?
Matt's collabo game is next level!
Dr. Joshua Bowen is freaking handsome. I had no idea.
Excuse me while i go tribute Ishtar and ask her for a little favor.
Lol
As a side note: Moses's birth story is uncannily similar to Sargon of Akkad's birth story...but on a much grander scale.
It's a classic tale of "our guy is like your guy but better"
Always funny when these videos bring out both the "The bible is 100% literally true" Christians AND the "The bible is 100% completely false and made up" Atheists. There's the real ambitious crossover
I think you misinterpret the 100% Atheist side. It is like tha Harry Potter books. The are made up but stil have actual real events in them.
The Bible is nothing like Harry Potter. The Harry Potter series was written by a single author with a single goal (to tell a good story) and it was completed within a relatively short frame of time. The Bible, on the other hand, is a mix of many genres written by dozens, if not hundreds of different people over a timespan of at least 1000 years, during which time the motivations for writing changed significantly. For example, the Book of Kings is quite clearly primarily a historical book (albeit with some supernatural elements added, which was common for all cultures at the time) and this is evidenced by the amount of archaeological finds that back it up. In contrast, the Flood narrative is quite clearly mythology. So, the OP is spot on. The two sides both believe that the Bible is just one thing and that broad, sweeping generalizations can be said about it when in reality this is not true.
@UsefulCharts The Bible is a fictional story about people with magical powers that contains real historical events- Just like that commentor said, and just like Harry Potter. The comparison was It's content, not it's authorship and composition. No one said anything about that. Your response is surprisingly bad faith, just to paint a dishonest equivalency between people who think the Earth is 3000 years old and people who don't believe in magic.
@@JebeckyGranjolaAspiringauthor here. Fiction is an often misused comparison when people discuss the Bible. Fiction as we know it is almost entirely modern.
@@JebeckyGranjola He mentioned the authorship, timeframe, motivation and literary conventions, all of which are different to Harry Potter. It's not a good comparison and it's dishonest to frame it as if it were.
If Harry Potter is eventually compiled from dozens or hundreds of different authors following different conventions and making different points on theology, law, ethics, history and the fate of a people then I could start seeing strong similarities. As it stands now it's an oversimplification and a bad faith argument that only serves to devalue the Bible ("it is just fiction with supernatural elements").
I'm not Jewish or Christian but I love the Bible from a scholarly lens, and as personal as this feels for me it's even more disrespectful to people who hold the text as sacred. Just don't.