This is all nice but why the part about humans being wicked or evil, is there any historical proof of humans being extra evil than regular or something?
There’s one major connection that all of you RUclipsrs who do these old scriptures and old stories It down yet I continuously here The stories being analysed in a literal sense you or Dr Sledge or anyone else for that matter really talk about the esoteric implications of the story which is where the actual truth lie because you know as well as I do there was no God who killed humanity because they were too loud which created a flood why aren’t you talking about the deeper truths as to what this means, because everything that’s happening in your story is occurring in the stars above and in the human body and its relation to a growing consciousness yet no one ever talks about this and I have a feeling it’s because of you go off of the current ideology that it’s not in the mainstream view You can’t talk about it, which is really sad because that’s the opposite of truth and wisdom .
@@iam.reverence Perhaps it is you who is blinding yourself to truth and wisdom. Your conception of God is akin to karma, but not everything that happens in the stars above, happens in the human body. You are not God. Stop preaching and start learning.
For me, the most interesting thing about such ancient stories is what they reveal about humanity. Our need to ascribe meaning to events, our inherent struggle with guilt and conscience, our hope for justice and atonement, and our desire to live forever.
Well put. Most religions, even non-theistic ones like Buddhism, promise some form of cosmic justice. I've long wondered why this is so important to the human species (there is evidence that it is of concern to several other primate species as well). I doubt that many people long to be punished for their own misdeeds, so the desire for "ultimate justice" is likely about resentment towards others who seem to be unfairly wealthy or powerful and others who seem to have "gotten away" with evil deeds.
It absolutely makes sense that the Mesopotamian dimensions of the boats would be 14,400. Since that number is itself 24 x 24 x 24 plus 24 x 24. Or 24³ + 24². Which would have been a very nice round number in the base 60 number system that ancient Mesopotamia used. Since 24 is two full hands of finger digit segments that the ancient Mesopotamians would have used for counting on their hands at the time. And it also makes sense why the Hebrew tradition would round that up because the Hebrew language used a quasi decimal system which would have been a strange fit for the Mesopotamian base 60. It seems that whoever wrote the original Mesopotamian flood myth really liked round numbers and consider them very important considering how much time they spent describing the dimensions of it.
One system of finger-counting uses the thumb passing over each phalanx of the other fingers. 3 phalanges times 4 remaining fingers = 12. If you do this with two hands, you can count to 24
There was also an Ancient Greek flood story, where Zeus flooded humanity and only Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha survived by hiding in a floating chest, then repopulated the world by throwing stones over their shoulders, which turned into new people as they hit the ground.
@@noah4822 Occasionally I have dreams where I am at the toilet urinating, and I just keep going & going & going for what seems like a few minutes before I wake up - think "WTF was that about?" - then go back to dreaming other goofy dreams.
There is evidence that the flood did happen, with wave marks on Madagascar that are too far to be from normal waves, pointing to a giant crater in the Indian Ocean, likely by a meteor.
@@WolfeSaber9933 Yes, that was just one of many floods, not THE Flood. There were giant floods here & there across the planet since humans have been around. But there was no worldwide Biblical Flood caused by a Biblical God. If a meteor caused the flood in the Indian Ocean that would not be the Biblical Flood.
Dr. Irving Finkel is amazing! Not only is he a great lecturer who makes the "dry" subject of ancient languages engaging, but he also has a dry wit that makes me laugh out loud.
He's hilarious, yet terribly well respected. There's an awesome video here on YT where he gives a presentation on his findings regarding the ark tablet. It's highly interesting and of course he interjects this with top shelf humour.
Its also amusing that (as far as i know) the Noahs Ark game was the only unlicensed SNES game that you could buy in stores. I remember seeing it in the Christian book store as a kid. It was also ridiculously expensive for the time. It had a slot on top of the cartridge where you would insert any other SNES game, and it would bypass the lockout chip. Since... it was unlicensed. Lol. Idk if thats considered a sin, but its funny. The sin was probably the price and how bad the games were. It was really just ripoffs of other games
the bible didnt copied from the epic of giglamish noah flood is real and its historical event and becuaze of that you can find the story in independent story around that word in asutrlia china canda india egypt and other
@@booqueefious2230 Yeah, thats because the company behind them sold or at least tried to sell their games in regular stores and Nintendo basically said if you keep selling unlicensed games you wont be allowed to sell any licensed games so they were dropped by every store but instead of giving up they came up with the bright idea of rebranding themselves as a christian game company and sell their games in christian bookstores as Nintendo had no leverage there.
@@nicenice3509 A historical event that makes zero sense and cant be proven isnt a real historical event. Its a myth which is proven by the fact there are different versions of the same story from different reagions and centuries.
Me picturing Enlil as a Bronze Age deity: I find no relation to this individual Me picturing Enlil pressing both ends of the pillow against his ears just to wearily get off the bed and angrily poke the roof of his heavenly abode with a broomstick: he just like me fr fr
Perhaps the fact that the same event is depicted in multiple religions on separate parts of the planet furthers the truth of the event, rather than diminishes?
also worth noting that hinduism has a story of Vishnu in his fish form Maysya, warning Manu (the first man) of a catastrophic flood and bringing him a boat
There's a similar story in a Hindu purana called Matsya purana.Matsya is an avatar of lord Vishnu who tells a king to build a boat and take a pair of every living things with him but in this story he also tells the king to take 7 Rishis with him to preserve the knowledge of the vedas.
i want to say, yesterday my cat died. she was my whole world and i am beyond devastated. i don't know how to continue on with my life without her. today, after i woke up and rerealized that she is gone, i've found solace in your videos. something about the academic outlook on religion and spirituality is really healing for me. i have a personal strained relationship with religion and spirituality, but learning about how humans have interacted with these concepts throughout the ages, is really helpful too me. i am not the first one to lose a beloved pet, and i'm not the first one to struggle with my spirituality. it's reminding me how i am one in humanity and that it will be okay. i've loved to watch these videos for awhile, and want you to know how healing an academic outlook on religion can be. thank you for putting out these videos. it means a lot to me.
had mine for 17 years before he suddenly passed away. it hurts, but give yourself time to grieve and experience these emotions fully. the grief never fully disappears, but it does get easier. videos like this definitely provided me with peace during some of the worst times in my life, i hope you continue to find solace here
Humans live a lot longer than cats... so that's a natural part of life, that happens to all but the most decrepit or unlucky cat owners. There will be another cat. There always is, unless you're allergic. Even then, sometimes it happens.
It's really interesting seeing the culture difference between "nature is dangerous but the heroic gods will save us" and "Our God controls all of nature, when disasters happen he's punishing us".
The cube ark wasn’t described as definitively a cube when you read out the translation though, it was the same description of a round coracle as the description in the previous story from my perspective, it says the boat should be as wide as it is long and that description is equally accurate if it is describing a circle as if it was describing a square so there’s no reason to know with certainty that it was a cube instead of a circle that the writer was envisioning when they made that description unless at that time in history they were starting to make a lot of cubic boats and the previously popular round boats were less popular than the new square ones at that time in history, from only the words as translated in this video both shapes are equally possible so we could both be correct.
"there’s no reason to know with certainty that it was a cube instead of a circle" There's no reason to believe a flood happened as described by the bible
Yeah. I concur. The previous, circular boat was also described as being equally long and wide. Seems like maybe he was making the evidence fit his hypothesis a little. Nonetheless, super fascinating stuff. Love his content.
@@mg-ew2xf I wasn’t talking about the story of the flood in the bible at all, I was talking very specifically about one specific earlier flood story, I think it was maybe the second earliest one mentioned, and the difference between the author’s perspective of the boat he was describing versus the interpretation of what the boat was described as looking like by a later academic who was cited in this video as describing the boat as a cube. The stories being fiction or nonfiction have little to do with the argument I was presenting.
@@MissMeganBeckett Yeah, I also thought that it might be square-shaped, but not a cube. "As wide as it is long" doesn't say how high. But I agree with your thought of looking at how boats were normally built at the time.
I always love hearing alternate flood stories. I don't really like my name, but the story it comes from has always fascinated me (although I'd rather have been named Ziusudra or Atrahasis lol)
Ziusudra and Atrahasis are very cool names. Even if you don't change your first name, you could think about adding one of them as a middle name. My grandfather went by his middle name except when at work, you could well do the same.
I was reading my daughter, the epic of Gilgamesh, for a bedtime story when we came across the proto Noah's Ark story. It absolutely blew my mind. I had no idea this was a common myth in the region.
This and the story of the Tower of Babel are my favorites primarily because of the engineering challenges in building such. Imagine building a large boat that can carry a lot of animals (never mind all animals in pairs) and supplies for a prolonged voyage and it needs to be sturdy and seaworthy enough to survive the whole wait. And the fantastical embellishments later religions add to the story makes it even more interesting (like the lower decks being lighted by shining gemstones)...
They're my favorite too, along with the Exodus, because the challenges are so insurmountable that they're obviously myths. Anyone who believes in them is obvious a rube you can fool pretty easily. No surprise who they're voting for lol
@@mg-ew2xf As a kid that came out of a Christian school, it's easy to get people believing when you start them in pre-k. there's still lessons from the religion that I enjoy, but these are myths for sure! lol
@@mg-ew2xf for Zelenskyy?! What, you are so ignorant you think the world is just USA?.. Like why are Americans so keen on confirming the stereotype of you acting like either Karens or Reddit mods all the time.
George Smith reaction to realizing what he translated when he worked on the flood tablet would have been worth a little mention. It's a classic and it's hard to fathom how revolutionary it was for the time.
The video says the accounts share so many details they must be copied from each other. Consider another explanation. They share so many details because they are separate accounts of the same event. Realize there are HUNDREDS of Flood accounts from cultures all around the earth which also share certain of these details. Punishment for wickedness, a righteous man and his family building an Ark. All types of animals collected. Raven or doves released. A sacrifice of thanks offered. Is it thought these all copied each other? Not possible since they are from all around the earth from unconnected cultures. Thus, the copied from Sumerian assumption does not work. Also, these accounts are from long before Christianity was in the region so that is not the source. Isn’t it reasonable that memories of such a profound event as the Flood would be retold by descendants as they spread about the earth. Some details might be adjusted to local boat types and deities, but the overall account and memorable details remain. Such corresponding accounts are wonderful evidence that the Flood was a real event and that the Bible is true. Here is intriguing discussion of similarities among some 500 accounts: wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1992041?q=Flood+accounts&p=doc
Turns out, Hollywoods been making remakes for a LOOOOTT longer than we realized. But seriously, that’s sorta how it feels like. Just newer authors taking the stories they grew up with, making a couple changes and then releasing it into the world, just that back then, stories held even more power. (Though looking at Scientology, it’s still possible to make a religion based on a story considering that started when a scifi writer decided to make his sci-fi stories into a religion)
It's incredibly interesting to see how different people struggled (and still struggle tbh) with our cruel and random world. It's difficult to accept that sometimes bad things happen. You can't control it at all. No matter how righteous you are, no matter how much you give to the gods - nobody will safe you from the unpredictable flood
From all these civilizations, the jewish people are the only people that were, are and will be till the end of the day, while all others today they are vanished into history. Today no ancient sumerians, no ancient greeks, no ancient Babylonians, nobody, but the jewish people continuously are keeping all these stories accordingly written in a canon, not in diffuse pieces of archeology of doubtful reliability. So there you have who is telling just stories and who actually tells the truth from Heaven
@@Duiker36thats what op is trying to say? That these people tried to use reason and greater stories to explain such horrific events, such as a god doing it to save the world. You simply just proved op's statement.
@@daviddavids2884 I just mean being able to see how earlier stories influenced later ones. With so many similar details between the different flood stories, you can see one one influenced the other. It's cool to see the flow of cultural exchange
This was excellent! I also recommend watching Irving Finkel (cited several times); there are many YT videos of him (on various topics), and he is a very entertaining speaker.
It's clear that the flood myth originated in Mesopotamia where natural floods were common, sometimes disastrous. The south-eastern part of Mesopotamia, where Tigris merges with Euphrates, was particularly vulnerable. It is easy to imagine that at times a body of water would be created that would look like an open sea, hence the myth about the whole world being flooded. As to the blame game… in all cases, including Genesis, a deity is responsible for the event, angry at people for whatever reason, all equally absurd.
6 kybp was still ~3 deg hotter, with much warmer oceans, and precitation well above today's. It subsided very slowly. Even Xenophon mentions Ephratus area as savanna with rich life. It is ikely that using boats to keep your household alive during floods was a normal way of life, and the Biblical flood is simply the last huge one.
"As to the blame game… in all cases, including Genesis, a deity is responsible for the event, angry at people for whatever reason, all equally absurd." That's a modern perspective. In the ancient world, when natural disasters could rise up without warning and decimate the population, these kinds of myths were ways to explain what happened. Nature indeed can be very capricious and cruel from a human perspective. These myths can also be a way for people to try to exercise some kind of control, whether through good behavior or through sacrifices meant to appease these capricious gods. I would further add that even today people often have a similar response to major natural disasters. Humans are always looking for meaning, and we are also always looking for some measure of control, some way to say either we are somehow responsible for it or we can prevent it from happening again - or both.
It’s interesting that the seemingly banal detail about including a window in the shelter permeates in each version of the myth. It is even included in a similar Zoroastrian myth, in which the god Ahura Mazda tasks the hero Yima (later known in Persian as ‘Jamshid’ from his Avestan name and epithet Yima xšaēta) with building some sort of large enclosure called a Vara to shelter humans and animals-not from a flood-but from the coming “evil winters.” Ahura Mazda instructs Yima: “That Vara you shall seal up with your golden seal, and you shall make a door, and a window self-shining within.” (Vendidad, Fargard 2.30)
That is interesting. I wonder if there's any significance to that or if it's just a narrative detail in the building of the vessel that was kind of copy pasted, so to speak
There's a fair amount of archaeological evidence that there was some manner of great cataclysm 10,000-20,000 in the ancient near east or Indus valley. Some argue it could be a collapse of an ice dam at the end of the ice age. Others speculate an impact event in the Indian ocean. But something happened
Even if "something happened", we would need to establish that this was indeed the event that the stories were inspired by, i.e. find some form of connection. Just pointing at any major flood and assuming by default that this is "the one" (or assuming that there even is _one single_ event that these stories are referring to), is not really sound history.
@@miguelatkinson Ancient people wouldn't fully know how big the world is. There was a child who survived the EF5 Moore tornado in 2013 in one of the two elementary schools that were hit. He later commented it was like the world was gone when he saw the destruction. Tornadoes have a really small destruction path compared to a large flood. A flood left by a tsunami or by a natural dam bursting would be apocalyptic. For a couple of generations people may only interact with other people who were impacted by the disaster in some way. That would be their entire world even if it wasn't the entire planet. People who believe the entire world was literally flooded are a minority. That minority would probably not watch a video like this as it calls their beliefs into question. You're spamming the comments of people who watch religious history videos and arguing about specific religious beliefs that aren't presented by the video or believed by the majority of the audience.
@@tiryaclearsong421 I agree with what you said in the first part of your comment but I would have to disagree with the second part you would be surprise by how many people actually take a literal interpretation of the flood story in the bible especially in third world countries which I live in one my self maybe due to high religiosity,lack of proper education,religious indoctrination or having no exposure to opposing veiws tend to end up believing in and taking alot of things in the bible literally like the flood story for instance maybe in more develop countries and even that might be not be the full picture seeing how such people are regarded as people regarded as a minority
Fun fact: Early Irish monks used coracles to REACH FRANCE to go proselytize on the Continent and/or visit Rome. I saw an example of one of these at a museum in Northern Ireland and could not imagine a monk in a wool robe and a paddle making their way to France but that’s what history says.,
Small correction. The flood in Genesis didn't last for 40 days, but actually close to a year. The water rose for 40 days and then stayed at that level for most of a year before it started to go down. The flood, in total, lasted almost a year.
Since you are flinging out claims without evidence, I might as well contribute. The flood was caused by a meteorite impact somewhere in the polar region as can be seen from the direction of the flood waters and also the direction of several large underwater land slides. A very obvious one is just off the coast of Sicily and Italy and it's landfall on the north African coast is easy to locate. This is the origin of the great stony desert of Libya and all the sand dunes of the Sahara. None of the gravel dunes in Libya can be explained by wind, but they are consistent with a very large tsunami.
@@anthonyernst999so do you. It’s all “ the bible tell me so “. The ark story has been debunked with evidence to prove it many time over. Same as the story about the exodus.
"Since God cannot be the villain, genesis focuses on the wickedness of humanity." In the earlier versions, the gods were capricious and culpable. In the Christian version God is divine, so the sin must be the humans'... and that's where the Christian ethics of guilt and self-blame become ingrained.
I wish humans would actually follow those ideals and take responsibility for their actions for once instead of blaming things like climate change on some outside magical force despite ALL evidence pointing it's mankind's folly. 2000 years of Christianity and majority didn't learn that Adam blaming everyone but himself was in the wrong smh. Western ideology: let millions die so we can get cheap Chinese crap and fast fashion!
Evil people obviously exist and sin has its natural consequences. Guilt is your conscience telling you that what you did was wrong. People who don't feel guilt are called psychopaths.
@@Willy_Tepes how does it make sense to say that floods and other natural disasters happen because some people are evil? There is no scientific evidence to support the thesis that tolerating evil causes natural disasters. The OP described how this works metaphorically, where it mandates victim-blaming. What do you see as beneficial about blaming the population for every earthquake and volcanic eruption?
@@margaretwordnerd5210 When did I ever bring the Bible up as an argument? You are fighting wind mills here Miss. I was pointing at geological evidence.
A further allusion to the flood myth comes from the Sumerian King List. As the name implies it's just lists kings, how long they ruled, the city they were ruling and maybe an epithet or short phrase to go along with them if the scribe felt like it. But starting off the list are 8 kings with reigns lasting tens of thousands of years each. They rule over five cities before "the flood swept over" and the subsequent kings have reigns of mere centuries. Not only the commonality of the flood but the names of the antediluvian cities match those founded in the Sumerian Flood Story.
I am fascinated by the Sumerian civilization - I'd appreciate more videos in the future regarding the intersection of the Sumerians and the proto-judeo cultures.
It's interesting that even though the biblical story only has one god, it still ends with a promise that the Flood will never again be repeated. Could this be an echo of the condemnation appearing in the earlier stories?
The condemnation is still there its just been moved to Exodus Chapter 32. The Noah story is supposed to be read in a three fold structure with Lot and Moses but most analyses miss the Lot/Noah connection by censuring the linking sexual humiliation element by skipping the second halves of Genesis 9 and 19.
If god would have bothered to read the book about himself he would have realised its a bad idea to allow satan to tempt mankind and then drowning them after the fact wont make anything better either.
@@TheZodiacRipper do you seriously assume men having so little responsibility in their own action, it's always someone else tempting you? Reminds of that pastor who claimed the 8 year old boy "seduced" him. Temptation, satan, demons, that's all in your head. The whole point about temptation stories, is about men picking up responsibility for ONCE instead of pulling an Adam with his "ShE MaDe Me Do It".
It’s so weird how these earlier three tales were a story of more complexity, where some gods were wise and some thought themselves above humanity, which they technically were due to their power, but they still shouldn’t abuse said power and then the Hebrews decided to make it morally binary and boring and they didn’t even do a good job you mean to tell me that literally every human had only evil thoughts ever except for Noah and his family and the people they decided to marry i’m sorry, but describing the story of Noah’s flood as more ethical than it’s three prior versions is something that I’ll just never understand
I love Irving Finkel 🥰 his book The First Ghost is great and his talk on Noah and the Ark is hilarious!!! Hope to catch another of your live talks soon, I miss them lol
I've seen a documentary on this subject. They tried building a huge coracle, but it wouldn't really stay afloat without taking on a lot of water. In my opinion, the whole story is a myth, but preserves a collective memory of a large flood event.....either the flooding of the Black Sea (some solid evidence of this) or the Persian Gulf (no real evidence but still possible). These flood events probably occurred at the end of the last Ice Age, when the sea levels rose. At a much earlier time...and again with no real evidence....the same thing MIGHT have happened with the Mediterranean, with the seas overflowing the Gibraltar Strait. All of this is speculative (except for the Black Sea flood), but it's all very possible. Early man may have lived in the Persian Gulf valley, and be driven out by the rising water...ie...flood. The same could have happened in the Mediterranean valley. But until solid evidence is found, we will never know.
I’m from the Netherlands, there were many epic floods the last 2000 years. In 1995 250,000 people and 1 million animals were evacuated from an area between several rivers.
@@LyleFrancisDelp I thought it could be different floods. When I only think of the numerous floods here. When you see older maps a lot of what is now water used to be land. There’s a flood in the Middle Ages where more than 20,000 people died.
That's the fun part about these sorts of stories. In both Judaism and Islam, stories were made about the minutaie of the boat and how it is run like how the lower decks are lighted with shining gemstones and how the quarters for animals and humans are divided along the sides of the body of Adam that they carried with them. One rabbi jokingly describes the Ark as a freaking submarine! In Islam, the boat is described as looking like the chest of a certain bird...
I'd love an indepth video on animal sacrifices, and especially fatty animals. Were these religions a way for priestly figures to get the best food types available in the region at no cost as "sacrifices"? Were they eaten or wasted?
This might be random but there are few people I could trust on the topic. I really wanna own and read a version of the modern bible that has notes historically contextualising every bit of it, like your videos. Do you have any good recommendation?
The Flood stories including Deucalion from Ovid's Metamorphosis, and Utnapishtim from the Epic of Gilgamesh have always fascinated me. Their similarity Noachian Flood story in Genesis suggest that the story might have been influenced by, and in turn influenced other flood stories.
It is interesting that many of these stories come from a region surrounded by rivers and subjected to frequent floods that fertilize the soil, but which have a potential to cause destructive floods.
The flood story is also different in Genesis by suggesting that we have some control over our fate through our actions, implying that not everything good or bad that happens in our lives is purely arbitrary. By living a moral life, we can navigate the tragedies we face and/or avoid them altogether.
It would be surprising if it were exclusive to the Bible. It is a truth you discover as you live your life. Bad things happen like a flood, and some may think the gods just hate me. That's the original story. The Bible in the revised story is saying, "Do bad things, bad things will happen." Being a raging alcoholic, you're probably gonna to find it hard to keep a job and have stability. Lose your job when you're not a raging alcoholic. You're probably gonna get back on your feet quickly without compounding the problem for yourself. A rule of thumb of life for sure, and of course, there are always exceptions to rules of thumb.
@@eddiezanryder anyone denying man made climate change at this point is a conspiracy nut. No, the world won't just flood completely, but it will have other cataclysms, like heat waves RIGHT NOW, tornadoes, quakes, or climate anomalies like snow in summer. ALL because of men's folly. Look at russia, it's burning, flooding and having locust swarms... for funnier event, they had worshipers at military temple of war struck by lightning. Of course our Ukrainian drones can do God's will and help. But the climate? Thanks to ExxonMobil, Total, BritishPetroleum and Lukoil... No sane person would defend oil companies, regardless of your beliefs and political stance. There's a saying "after us, the deluge". This is what the story is about. Corrupt people not caring what happens after them and dooming everybody else... don't need to read to see fossil fuel billionaires destroying our planet.
I'm sure there are many gaps in our understanding of ancient mythology, but there is still a tangible progression in how this story evolved over time. The irony of a loving god eradicating humanity with a flood makes a lot more sense when you realize that one "god" was originally a villain-hero god pair.
What if it was the opposite chronology though? I could imagine people not liking the idea of the Genesis justice and this coming up with a duality of power instead
Wish you mentioned how Dr. Finkel commissioned the construction of an ark based on the description in the tablet he studied. It successfully floated, and was quite large and roomy.
No particular man named Noah, but I think the fact these stories of a huge flood are recorded across multiple cultures makes me think that there is likely something more to it.
There is just so much richness to our world and collective human history. This video covers so many interesting myths from completely different cultures and time periods, but how many countless more must there have been that we’re not even aware of?
It reminds me of the film Prometheus made by Ridley Scot wherein the Engineers who ( according to the script ) had created Humans subsequently decided to finish their botched project , ...anyway this way of dealing with humanity was the reason why Marcion of Sinope came to believe that the God of the Old Testament Bible could not be the genuine Christian God .
Minute 18:34 Just as "the gods only jeopardized their own livelihood in destroying their human sources of support", so humans are only destroying their own livelihood by destroying their natural sources of support. It's important to allow the old stories into one's imagination.
This is great. I delight in filling in the gaps to understanding about this particular subject. If I could return to school, I would absolutely major in Assyriology.
One thing I've always found hilarious about biblical narrative is just how low of an opinion it has on humanity. Like the older myths were all "oh yeah this god was annoyed cause he couldn't sleep" meanwhile the Bible is all "you're all terrible people and deserve to die" LOL
The Bible holds emphasis on the wickedness of human hearts because of just how incongruent it is with how HIGH an opinion God has for us. Humans are made in the image of God! We were originally made to stand in the presence of the thrice holy God - to be rulers and subjugators of creation around us, but corrupted by our sins we no longer reflect that reality. You focus too much on the judgement of old when salvation is at hand for you today! Repent of your sins and submit your life to Christ that you may find redemption and salvation. His yoke is easy and his burden is light, go to him if you are weary in soul.
@@zr3.145I scrolled for 15 minutes and finally found one sane comment. God bless you brother. Let them subjugate and try to edify their uncongenial higher sense of moral that came from ___? Blank. Notice how its all based on a presumptuous consensus yet approached from an adhering of disbelief in God, obviously. Still waiting for science to clash with the Bible, let alone the generalization of the historicity depicted. Even when watching these videos through the lens of an "atheist" which in of itself is a religion according to the U.S. Supreme Court legally abided by the first amendment, still doesn't disprove which what was seemingly trying to be portrayed in the(se) videos, the Bible and Christianity.
Flood story, similar to the 4 ancient Middle-Eastern myths explained in this video, also exists in Chinese mythology. Similar to the Sumerian, Atrahasis and Gilgamesh flood stories, the Chinese one also involved two different deities: (1) Gong Gong, the God of water and (2) Nüwa, the Goddes who created humans. In our myth, Gong Gong had a disagreement with Zhu Rong, the God of Fire, and lost. In a fit of rage, Gong Gong destroyed the jade pillar, Mount Buzhou, which supported heaven and earth, turning earth into an ocean. Nuwa then saved the earth and humanity, which she created, by mending the sky with colorful stones. My people, the Chinese Hakka, still celebrate Sky Mending Day to this day. Notice that in the Chinese flood story, we humans are not blamed for the flood. Contrast that with Yahweh (the God of Abraham), which put the blame on humans.
In the book of Enoch, humans are really not the only reason why YHWH sent the flood. I believe you know the reason why the flood happened in the book of Enoch.
So Chinese also refuse to accept that it's fracking and drilling Earth for resources with no care in the world destroys our planet? Not even surprised, it's CCP's policy "after us the deluge". LITERALLY. My city is near the shore and in a few hundred years it will be underwater because of PEOPLE, not some magic spirits. @@edward1412 Enoch is not canonical though. Like a fanfic.
@@liammiskell3522 I know. I’m just wondering when in the Hebrew tradition it entered the mainstream and how early was Yahweh the one causing it. Since he was originally a storm god, it could have started with him in the forefront, but it depends on when it entered the mains stream since the religion was henotheist or polytheist until the second temple era when Yahwism became closer to what we recognize as modern day Judaism.
@@RiteTheWrongs Yahweh was never a storm God. He was always the creator of everything. The religion has never been polytheist. Try and read a Bible for God's sake.
@@Willy_Tepes The biggest issue with that is that each local culture for the most part has a very different flood myth. The flood myth of egypt for example talks about how egypt was invaded by barbarians, and in order to stop them the gods flooded the nile with wine. The barbarians, thinking the wine was blood, all drank themselves to death. That is a very different story than the tigris/euphrates valley flood myth. Also the flood of the (i believe maya, might be aztec) was about a hurricane that destroyed structures, not an ark from which all humans descend from.
Thanks for clarifying how the different pre-Biblical flood stories fit together. I am mostly familiar with the one in Gilgamesh and didn’t know how Atrahasis fit.
1:16 is incorrect. What really happened is that there was a decent amount of trade going on for centuries in the Fertile Crescent, until 1200 BCE, and during that time, traders also transported stories. It is incorrect to say that one group took from another group's story; rather, the story was told in both the East and the West, and people wrote it down at different times and in different versions.
@@bocoom 8000 years ago, people had just started making boats, but no ships. A ship is not just "a big boat", it is a different concept. Therefore, the story of an ark cannot have existed 8000 years ago.
I left Christianity years ago and have since began a more polytheistic/pantheistic approach to my spirituality and so it's really interesting how the change from a polytheistic story to a monotheistic story ends up putting the blame on humanity for the actions of God. We're just too evil, too corrupt to be allowed to live. This is extended into Christian theology and really finds its ultimate form with the invention of "Original Sin" and the need for Jesus to save us from hell (instead of just not sending us to hell in the first place)
I came to the same conclusion. Left Catholicism years ago and now fully embracing my ancestral spirituality: Chinese syncretism, which a combination of a lot of things: ancestral worship, polytheism, animism and practice of philosophy. I can’t be happier!
We are definitely too evil and corrupt. But that's what makes the Gospel so Wonderful, that even despite our corruption - even in Noah's time, The Lord God loved us so as to bring a way of redemption and salvation from our wicked and sinful heart. And as you rightly say, salvation and redemption finds its ultimate form in the incarnation of God in Jesus Christ. Repent and believe in him again, only through him will you be saved.
It’s amazing, if not spooky, at how many myths parallel only to become less different the further back you go. It really sets an idea that every religion is based on a long lost central one.
Absolutely. The same goes with languages and genetics, they all point to common ancestrality the further back one goes. Speaking of languages, scriptures say they were of one language before the tower of Babel overthrow. They were dispersed as they could no longer understand each other, went and settled in their divisions and became nations. Having similar origins, it's not surprising their tales about their origins, the flood, sound similar, with some cultural twists. God choosing one man, Abraham to teach his descendants His ways, makes sense as men all went their ways which are not always according to God's will.
Another key similarity among all four myths is the resulting age of the hero. You mentioned the meaning of the names of the earlier heros, and they all explicitly or implicitly say that they ended up living long - or immortal - lives. With the Genesis myth, Noah is described to die at the ripe old age of 950 and that he "walked with God" - both old and kinda immortal.
Get a free copy of the 80,000 Hours in-depth career guide: 80000hours.org/rfb
This is all nice but why the part about humans being wicked or evil, is there any historical proof of humans being extra evil than regular or something?
There’s one major connection that all of you RUclipsrs who do these old scriptures and old stories It down yet I continuously here The stories being analysed in a literal sense you or Dr Sledge or anyone else for that matter really talk about the esoteric implications of the story which is where the actual truth lie because you know as well as I do there was no God who killed humanity because they were too loud which created a flood why aren’t you talking about the deeper truths as to what this means, because everything that’s happening in your story is occurring in the stars above and in the human body and its relation to a growing consciousness yet no one ever talks about this and I have a feeling it’s because of you go off of the current ideology that it’s not in the mainstream view
You can’t talk about it, which is really sad because that’s the opposite of truth and wisdom .
@@iam.reverencebecause it'll probably offend the Christians
@@iam.reverence Perhaps it is you who is blinding yourself to truth and wisdom. Your conception of God is akin to karma, but not everything that happens in the stars above, happens in the human body. You are not God. Stop preaching and start learning.
@@Christianityisamyth since when did the truth worry about peoples feelings?
Please do an in-depth video adam and eve and its pre biblical origins
Excellent idea
I second this!!
@@ReligionForBreakfast waiting for it
When you say pre biblical are you saying it's older than Judaism?
@issiacmoonstrolleryour comment seems popular, but I don’t understand how genetics is opening that window. Would you mind elaborating?
For me, the most interesting thing about such ancient stories is what they reveal about humanity. Our need to ascribe meaning to events, our inherent struggle with guilt and conscience, our hope for justice and atonement, and our desire to live forever.
Guilt, justice, atonement, forever. Such interesting human conceptions. Studying their origins is a very rewarding hobby of mine.
Well put. Most religions, even non-theistic ones like Buddhism, promise some form of cosmic justice. I've long wondered why this is so important to the human species (there is evidence that it is of concern to several other primate species as well). I doubt that many people long to be punished for their own misdeeds, so the desire for "ultimate justice" is likely about resentment towards others who seem to be unfairly wealthy or powerful and others who seem to have "gotten away" with evil deeds.
Lol
42 words in your comment... and it is a perfect sermon and a PERFECT COMMENT (to a near perfect video.) 🙂
@@DonnyOsmosis does this relate to Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy?
Too late for breakfast unfortunately. Will save this video for later during dinner.
Somehow ReligionForDinner sounds like a much, much worse channel.
ReligionForDessert
@@danem.9402ReligionIntheDesert
I've finished mine in seven minutes. The rest for later. Great content ReligionForFood bro!
ReligionforLunch here
It absolutely makes sense that the Mesopotamian dimensions of the boats would be 14,400. Since that number is itself 24 x 24 x 24 plus 24 x 24. Or 24³ + 24². Which would have been a very nice round number in the base 60 number system that ancient Mesopotamia used. Since 24 is two full hands of finger digit segments that the ancient Mesopotamians would have used for counting on their hands at the time. And it also makes sense why the Hebrew tradition would round that up because the Hebrew language used a quasi decimal system which would have been a strange fit for the Mesopotamian base 60. It seems that whoever wrote the original Mesopotamian flood myth really liked round numbers and consider them very important considering how much time they spent describing the dimensions of it.
Wait, how the f were their fingers structured to have 12 segments/5 fingers?
One system of finger-counting uses the thumb passing over each phalanx of the other fingers. 3 phalanges times 4 remaining fingers = 12. If you do this with two hands, you can count to 24
Great comment bro
Ancient maths nerds criticising capricious gods. Very relatable.
Unoriginality is something that does not surprise me!
There was also an Ancient Greek flood story, where Zeus flooded humanity and only Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha survived by hiding in a floating chest, then repopulated the world by throwing stones over their shoulders, which turned into new people as they hit the ground.
I had a dream it rained, once
@@noah4822 Occasionally I have dreams where I am at the toilet urinating, and I just keep going & going & going for what seems like a few minutes before I wake up - think "WTF was that about?" - then go back to dreaming other goofy dreams.
The Deucalion flood tale also loosely borrows from the Atrahasis family of flood stories.
There is evidence that the flood did happen, with wave marks on Madagascar that are too far to be from normal waves, pointing to a giant crater in the Indian Ocean, likely by a meteor.
@@WolfeSaber9933 Yes, that was just one of many floods, not THE Flood. There were giant floods here & there across the planet since humans have been around. But there was no worldwide Biblical Flood caused by a Biblical God. If a meteor caused the flood in the Indian Ocean that would not be the Biblical Flood.
Dr. Irving Finkel is amazing! Not only is he a great lecturer who makes the "dry" subject of ancient languages engaging, but he also has a dry wit that makes me laugh out loud.
Hey a fellow who also watches Dr. Finkel! Glad to see you here! His ghost stories are top notch along with his project the first ark. Loves those!
@@NCR-Trooper2Another Finkel fan here! Had the pleasure of shaking his hand in London!
I too have been Finkled and very jealous of @obsidianrazor for meeting him. His lecture on the building of the ark is a must see.
I loved when he showed and played a reconstruction of a board game from Mesopotamia that used D4’s
@@AloisWeimar The royal game of Ur! I own a board, very fun game.
be prosperous and multiply, but always keep the noise level at your parties reasonable 'less you wish to drown the world
unbelievably based
I prefer “be excellent to each other and party on dudes”
read this as "be preposterous and multiply" - I think this suits today's world better
oooh, shoutout of Irving Finkel! He is excellent. British tweed man with amusing name and wizard-level head and facial hair who can read cuneiform.
He's hilarious, yet terribly well respected. There's an awesome video here on YT where he gives a presentation on his findings regarding the ark tablet. It's highly interesting and of course he interjects this with top shelf humour.
@@eumaeus plenty of videos. Even one where he teaches how to use a stylus to write cuneiform on a clay tablet.
Wait - his facial hair can read cuneiform? 🤨
Dr. Finkel is a wizard.
@@discontinuedmodel232 It would not surprise me -he's that good.
0:19
The fact that this game was on the Super Nintendo and not Sega GENESIS is quite amusing
Its also amusing that (as far as i know) the Noahs Ark game was the only unlicensed SNES game that you could buy in stores. I remember seeing it in the Christian book store as a kid. It was also ridiculously expensive for the time.
It had a slot on top of the cartridge where you would insert any other SNES game, and it would bypass the lockout chip. Since... it was unlicensed. Lol. Idk if thats considered a sin, but its funny. The sin was probably the price and how bad the games were. It was really just ripoffs of other games
The funny thing is that that game was a blatant Doom knockoff
the bible didnt copied from the epic of giglamish
noah flood is real and its historical event and becuaze of that you can find the story in independent story around that word
in asutrlia china canda india egypt and other
@@booqueefious2230 Yeah, thats because the company behind them sold or at least tried to sell their games in regular stores and Nintendo basically said if you keep selling unlicensed games you wont be allowed to sell any licensed games so they were dropped by every store but instead of giving up they came up with the bright idea of rebranding themselves as a christian game company and sell their games in christian bookstores as Nintendo had no leverage there.
@@nicenice3509 A historical event that makes zero sense and cant be proven isnt a real historical event. Its a myth which is proven by the fact there are different versions of the same story from different reagions and centuries.
Irving Finkel mention I already know this is going to be good
Love Irving's videos... :)
Irving Finkel and Thomas Römer in one video is like a fantasy come true
That guy’s got some wizard level hair
Live in an apartment, and you'll understand Enlil's actions.
Most relatable religious myth ever.
Totally agree. Slept regularly with earplugs, that don’t really help. The first time I heard that story, it was so relatable.
Fr, I'm with Enlil and all his fellow Gods realising that too many humans on earth are a problem.
Me picturing Enlil as a Bronze Age deity: I find no relation to this individual
Me picturing Enlil pressing both ends of the pillow against his ears just to wearily get off the bed and angrily poke the roof of his heavenly abode with a broomstick: he just like me fr fr
#Enlildidnothingwrong
Last time I was this early Christianity was still an underground cult
Bazinga
@@il3077 le bazinga le sheldon le xD
It soon will be in England…
Last time I was this early was the meeting where we named dirt
@@stereomachine x33!
“Can I copy your homework?”
“Ok but don’t make it too obvious”
They kinda failed though, it's still really obvious.
@@chlorophyllphileThat's the joke.
Sumerian authors: _holds the Atrahasis epic_
YHWH: "You made this?"
_takes it_
YHWH: "I made this."
Well said.
Perhaps the fact that the same event is depicted in multiple religions on separate parts of the planet furthers the truth of the event, rather than diminishes?
also worth noting that hinduism has a story of Vishnu in his fish form Maysya, warning Manu (the first man) of a catastrophic flood and bringing him a boat
Indeed and the Sumerians may have come from the east. Did they bring a proto-Hindu flood story with them?
But Matysa Purana was composed between 250 to 500 AD.
Probably the opposite@@tadcastertory1087
@@tadcastertory1087On the contrary, the Sumerians existed before the Indus valley
Civilizations near a big river usually have some sort of flood myth.
There's a similar story in a Hindu purana called Matsya purana.Matsya is an avatar of lord Vishnu who tells a king to build a boat and take a pair of every living things with him but in this story he also tells the king to take 7 Rishis with him to preserve the knowledge of the vedas.
i want to say, yesterday my cat died. she was my whole world and i am beyond devastated. i don't know how to continue on with my life without her. today, after i woke up and rerealized that she is gone, i've found solace in your videos. something about the academic outlook on religion and spirituality is really healing for me. i have a personal strained relationship with religion and spirituality, but learning about how humans have interacted with these concepts throughout the ages, is really helpful too me. i am not the first one to lose a beloved pet, and i'm not the first one to struggle with my spirituality. it's reminding me how i am one in humanity and that it will be okay.
i've loved to watch these videos for awhile, and want you to know how healing an academic outlook on religion can be. thank you for putting out these videos. it means a lot to me.
I am so sorry for your loss. I am certain that your dear girl had a wonderful life with you. This channel is a favorite of mine as well.
Pets have an appropriate place in life
had mine for 17 years before he suddenly passed away. it hurts, but give yourself time to grieve and experience these emotions fully. the grief never fully disappears, but it does get easier.
videos like this definitely provided me with peace during some of the worst times in my life, i hope you continue to find solace here
Dr. Henry might know some necromancy, if that helps
Humans live a lot longer than cats... so that's a natural part of life, that happens to all but the most decrepit or unlucky cat owners. There will be another cat. There always is, unless you're allergic. Even then, sometimes it happens.
I highly recommend everyone listen to Finkle’s presentation if you haven’t already. He’s a joy to listen to.
It's really interesting seeing the culture difference between "nature is dangerous but the heroic gods will save us" and "Our God controls all of nature, when disasters happen he's punishing us".
Oh there was plenty of punishment let out by the old gods too.
I JUST saw a clip of Eoin Reardon and others making a coracle. He's a charismatic Irish traditional woodworker
Did you add the hyperlink on coracle or is RUclips doing that ...?
@@FarimiraSounds like you might have a virus
The cube ark wasn’t described as definitively a cube when you read out the translation though, it was the same description of a round coracle as the description in the previous story from my perspective, it says the boat should be as wide as it is long and that description is equally accurate if it is describing a circle as if it was describing a square so there’s no reason to know with certainty that it was a cube instead of a circle that the writer was envisioning when they made that description unless at that time in history they were starting to make a lot of cubic boats and the previously popular round boats were less popular than the new square ones at that time in history, from only the words as translated in this video both shapes are equally possible so we could both be correct.
"there’s no reason to know with certainty that it was a cube instead of a circle" There's no reason to believe a flood happened as described by the bible
Great comment bro
Yeah. I concur. The previous, circular boat was also described as being equally long and wide. Seems like maybe he was making the evidence fit his hypothesis a little. Nonetheless, super fascinating stuff. Love his content.
@@mg-ew2xf I wasn’t talking about the story of the flood in the bible at all, I was talking very specifically about one specific earlier flood story, I think it was maybe the second earliest one mentioned, and the difference between the author’s perspective of the boat he was describing versus the interpretation of what the boat was described as looking like by a later academic who was cited in this video as describing the boat as a cube. The stories being fiction or nonfiction have little to do with the argument I was presenting.
@@MissMeganBeckett Yeah, I also thought that it might be square-shaped, but not a cube. "As wide as it is long" doesn't say how high. But I agree with your thought of looking at how boats were normally built at the time.
I always love hearing alternate flood stories. I don't really like my name, but the story it comes from has always fascinated me (although I'd rather have been named Ziusudra or Atrahasis lol)
Hey, people change their phone number, their address, Native Americans have different names throughout their lives - change yours!
Ziusudra and Atrahasis are very cool names. Even if you don't change your first name, you could think about adding one of them as a middle name. My grandfather went by his middle name except when at work, you could well do the same.
I was reading my daughter, the epic of Gilgamesh, for a bedtime story when we came across the proto Noah's Ark story. It absolutely blew my mind. I had no idea this was a common myth in the region.
Sounds like Gilgamesh was being told to construct a Lament Configuration. Best crossover ever! "Gilgamesh, we have such sights to show you!"
This and the story of the Tower of Babel are my favorites primarily because of the engineering challenges in building such. Imagine building a large boat that can carry a lot of animals (never mind all animals in pairs) and supplies for a prolonged voyage and it needs to be sturdy and seaworthy enough to survive the whole wait. And the fantastical embellishments later religions add to the story makes it even more interesting (like the lower decks being lighted by shining gemstones)...
They're my favorite too, along with the Exodus, because the challenges are so insurmountable that they're obviously myths. Anyone who believes in them is obvious a rube you can fool pretty easily. No surprise who they're voting for lol
@@mg-ew2xf As a kid that came out of a Christian school, it's easy to get people believing when you start them in pre-k.
there's still lessons from the religion that I enjoy, but these are myths for sure! lol
@@mg-ew2xf”Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong” 10/10 logic
@@mg-ew2xf for Zelenskyy?! What, you are so ignorant you think the world is just USA?.. Like why are Americans so keen on confirming the stereotype of you acting like either Karens or Reddit mods all the time.
Yeah I mean he's right in this instance. @@pelinalwhitestrake1176
The bird release story seems be a just-so story to explain why doves and swallows like to live with people but ravens do not.
I suppose, but it doesn't seem to explain it, just establish that it exists of old.
The ravens that live around my house disagree.
It's a holdover from the Earth Diver origin myths.
Would love to see a video on the history and origins of the Book of Job! One of the weirdest books from the Bible
George Smith reaction to realizing what he translated when he worked on the flood tablet would have been worth a little mention. It's a classic and it's hard to fathom how revolutionary it was for the time.
It needs to be a movie. It could start as Smith translating with completed passages as scenes.
That photo of Dr. Irving Finkel looked really cool.
I couldn't possibly get enough of biblical videos, there's so much to investigate
Irving Finkel is brilliant his speech on the ark is one of the most entertaining I have ever listened to.
Last time I was this early Judaism was still henotheistic
Last time I was this early Yahweh and El were still two separate gods and Asherah was in the picture
Last time I was this early, we still worshipped the deities at Göbekli Tepe.
Last time I was this early Hermes Trismegistus was drawing the blueprints for Göbleki Tepe
@@htwtrbg1damn, I’m still trying to figure out how rocks work, you’re so advanced!
@myspleenisbursting4825 - I am here early (for me!). The last time I was, the Atlanteans were still trying to decide what a pyramid would look like!
Good stuff Dr. Henry, great video, I shared it to some christian friends of mine who are interested in Gilgamesh Tablet 11
I used the various flood myths information for a research paper in my Comp ll class…I was shocked by the students’ fascination with the topic.
The video says the accounts share so many details they must be copied from each other. Consider another explanation. They share so many details because they are separate accounts of the same event. Realize there are HUNDREDS of Flood accounts from cultures all around the earth which also share certain of these details. Punishment for wickedness, a righteous man and his family building an Ark. All types of animals collected. Raven or doves released. A sacrifice of thanks offered. Is it thought these all copied each other? Not possible since they are from all around the earth from unconnected cultures. Thus, the copied from Sumerian assumption does not work. Also, these accounts are from long before Christianity was in the region so that is not the source.
Isn’t it reasonable that memories of such a profound event as the Flood would be retold by descendants as they spread about the earth. Some details might be adjusted to local boat types and deities, but the overall account and memorable details remain. Such corresponding accounts are wonderful evidence that the Flood was a real event and that the Bible is true. Here is intriguing discussion of similarities among some 500 accounts:
wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1992041?q=Flood+accounts&p=doc
Turns out, Hollywoods been making remakes for a LOOOOTT longer than we realized. But seriously, that’s sorta how it feels like. Just newer authors taking the stories they grew up with, making a couple changes and then releasing it into the world, just that back then, stories held even more power. (Though looking at Scientology, it’s still possible to make a religion based on a story considering that started when a scifi writer decided to make his sci-fi stories into a religion)
TIL Hollywood is 4000 years old
You realize That cult will investigate you now. Probably me to.
@@FrankSwancey they have no right to do anything. Great america
It's incredibly interesting to see how different people struggled (and still struggle tbh) with our cruel and random world. It's difficult to accept that sometimes bad things happen. You can't control it at all. No matter how righteous you are, no matter how much you give to the gods - nobody will safe you from the unpredictable flood
From all these civilizations, the jewish people are the only people that were, are and will be till the end of the day, while all others today they are vanished into history. Today no ancient sumerians, no ancient greeks, no ancient Babylonians, nobody, but the jewish people continuously are keeping all these stories accordingly written in a canon, not in diffuse pieces of archeology of doubtful reliability. So there you have who is telling just stories and who actually tells the truth from Heaven
Except every single one of these flood myths has a god literally saying, "Do this to save yourself from the flood."
@@Duiker36thats what op is trying to say? That these people tried to use reason and greater stories to explain such horrific events, such as a god doing it to save the world. You simply just proved op's statement.
@@yeetmeister3055 you athiest have no concept of a world with god bro smh
@@Leeoffaith It's super-easy to have the concept. It's just hard to believe something with zero evidence.
Religion for brunch today!
"...everyone else is left out to dry. So to speak."
I lol'ed
When the Babylonians saw the French Bulldog, they wrote an exception in the codex and threw the poor animal overboard.
Sadness is constant.
The French Bulldog breed of dog did not exist at the time. It is completely man made. /pedant
@@obsidianjane4413 I'm sorry that you missed the humor.
That was rrrufff… 🤷🏻♂️🤣
@@luiszuluaga6575 🤣
Being able to see the direct inspiration for such ancient stories is so fascinating ✨
wut??!?! define 'direct inspiration'
@@daviddavids2884 I just mean being able to see how earlier stories influenced later ones. With so many similar details between the different flood stories, you can see one one influenced the other. It's cool to see the flow of cultural exchange
You're content is always so compelling. Who knew? Thanks
Most religious scholars.
Not only is Mr Breakfast a good researcher, he is a great story-teller. A good video relies on both (AND good video skills).
@@MossyMozart"mr. Breakfast" lol
Yay! I love your videos, you cover the exact stuff thst i hyperfixate on, thank you for always posting well researched AND entertaining videos! ;D
This was excellent! I also recommend watching Irving Finkel (cited several times); there are many YT videos of him (on various topics), and he is a very entertaining speaker.
He is an absolutely amazing speaker. Very fun lectures to watch.
It's clear that the flood myth originated in Mesopotamia where natural floods were common, sometimes disastrous. The south-eastern part of Mesopotamia, where Tigris merges with Euphrates, was particularly vulnerable. It is easy to imagine that at times a body of water would be created that would look like an open sea, hence the myth about the whole world being flooded. As to the blame game… in all cases, including Genesis, a deity is responsible for the event, angry at people for whatever reason, all equally absurd.
6 kybp was still ~3 deg hotter, with much warmer oceans, and precitation well above today's. It subsided very slowly. Even Xenophon mentions Ephratus area as savanna with rich life. It is ikely that using boats to keep your household alive during floods was a normal way of life, and the Biblical flood is simply the last huge one.
@@mikets42 it's likely the flood didn't happen as described by the bible, similar to the exodus myth
"As to the blame game… in all cases, including Genesis, a deity is responsible for the event, angry at people for whatever reason, all equally absurd."
That's a modern perspective. In the ancient world, when natural disasters could rise up without warning and decimate the population, these kinds of myths were ways to explain what happened. Nature indeed can be very capricious and cruel from a human perspective. These myths can also be a way for people to try to exercise some kind of control, whether through good behavior or through sacrifices meant to appease these capricious gods.
I would further add that even today people often have a similar response to major natural disasters. Humans are always looking for meaning, and we are also always looking for some measure of control, some way to say either we are somehow responsible for it or we can prevent it from happening again - or both.
@@ritawilbur6128and some humans refuse meaning no matter what.
Hey diety's get upset too. Can you blame him. It's a tough thankless job plus a lot of people question his existence.
Always love how informative your videos are and also wanted to say I really like the editing it’s very smooth
*Irving Finkel*
One of the best public speakers. Energetic, joyous, and informative.
It’s interesting that the seemingly banal detail about including a window in the shelter permeates in each version of the myth. It is even included in a similar Zoroastrian myth, in which the god Ahura Mazda tasks the hero Yima (later known in Persian as ‘Jamshid’ from his Avestan name and epithet Yima xšaēta) with building some sort of large enclosure called a Vara to shelter humans and animals-not from a flood-but from the coming “evil winters.”
Ahura Mazda instructs Yima: “That Vara you shall seal up with your golden seal, and you shall make a door, and a window self-shining within.” (Vendidad, Fargard 2.30)
That is interesting. I wonder if there's any significance to that or if it's just a narrative detail in the building of the vessel that was kind of copy pasted, so to speak
Once ready story of Matsya Avataram of Hindu Puaranas. It talks about the great flood too
There's a fair amount of archaeological evidence that there was some manner of great cataclysm 10,000-20,000 in the ancient near east or Indus valley. Some argue it could be a collapse of an ice dam at the end of the ice age. Others speculate an impact event in the Indian ocean. But something happened
All likely but one thing for sure it isn't the global flood
@@miguelatkinson oh, yeah. Not a "global" flood. But something happened
Even if "something happened", we would need to establish that this was indeed the event that the stories were inspired by, i.e. find some form of connection. Just pointing at any major flood and assuming by default that this is "the one" (or assuming that there even is _one single_ event that these stories are referring to), is not really sound history.
@@miguelatkinson Ancient people wouldn't fully know how big the world is. There was a child who survived the EF5 Moore tornado in 2013 in one of the two elementary schools that were hit. He later commented it was like the world was gone when he saw the destruction. Tornadoes have a really small destruction path compared to a large flood. A flood left by a tsunami or by a natural dam bursting would be apocalyptic. For a couple of generations people may only interact with other people who were impacted by the disaster in some way. That would be their entire world even if it wasn't the entire planet.
People who believe the entire world was literally flooded are a minority. That minority would probably not watch a video like this as it calls their beliefs into question. You're spamming the comments of people who watch religious history videos and arguing about specific religious beliefs that aren't presented by the video or believed by the majority of the audience.
@@tiryaclearsong421 I agree with what you said in the first part of your comment but I would have to disagree with the second part you would be surprise by how many people actually take a literal interpretation of the flood story in the bible especially in third world countries which I live in one my self maybe due to high religiosity,lack of proper education,religious indoctrination or having no exposure to opposing veiws tend to end up believing in and taking alot of things in the bible literally like the flood story for instance maybe in more develop countries and even that might be not be the full picture seeing how such people are regarded as people regarded as a minority
Fun fact: Early Irish monks used coracles to REACH FRANCE to go proselytize on the Continent and/or visit Rome. I saw an example of one of these at a museum in Northern Ireland and could not imagine a monk in a wool robe and a paddle making their way to France but that’s what history says.,
Amazing video, ancient literature is one of my favorite topics together with ancient religion, can't thank you enough for this
Small correction. The flood in Genesis didn't last for 40 days, but actually close to a year. The water rose for 40 days and then stayed at that level for most of a year before it started to go down. The flood, in total, lasted almost a year.
Since you are flinging out claims without evidence, I might as well contribute. The flood was caused by a meteorite impact somewhere in the polar region as can be seen from the direction of the flood waters and also the direction of several large underwater land slides. A very obvious one is just off the coast of Sicily and Italy and it's landfall on the north African coast is easy to locate. This is the origin of the great stony desert of Libya and all the sand dunes of the Sahara. None of the gravel dunes in Libya can be explained by wind, but they are consistent with a very large tsunami.
@@Willy_Tepes I made zero claims without evidence. I hope you get help with your psychotic delusions.
@@Willy_Tepes You just made a bunch of claims with zero evidence
@@anthonyernst999so do you. It’s all “ the bible tell me so “. The ark story has been debunked with evidence to prove it many time over. Same as the story about the exodus.
@@willmind4296 I don't believe in the Bible. I was just pointing out that he's a hypocrite and you got defensive for no reason
"Since God cannot be the villain, genesis focuses on the wickedness of humanity."
In the earlier versions, the gods were capricious and culpable. In the Christian version God is divine, so the sin must be the humans'... and that's where the Christian ethics of guilt and self-blame become ingrained.
Problem is uhh well the problem of evil
I wish humans would actually follow those ideals and take responsibility for their actions for once instead of blaming things like climate change on some outside magical force despite ALL evidence pointing it's mankind's folly. 2000 years of Christianity and majority didn't learn that Adam blaming everyone but himself was in the wrong smh. Western ideology: let millions die so we can get cheap Chinese crap and fast fashion!
Evil people obviously exist and sin has its natural consequences. Guilt is your conscience telling you that what you did was wrong. People who don't feel guilt are called psychopaths.
@@Willy_Tepes how does it make sense to say that floods and other natural disasters happen because some people are evil? There is no scientific evidence to support the thesis that tolerating evil causes natural disasters. The OP described how this works metaphorically, where it mandates victim-blaming. What do you see as beneficial about blaming the population for every earthquake and volcanic eruption?
@@margaretwordnerd5210 When did I ever bring the Bible up as an argument? You are fighting wind mills here Miss.
I was pointing at geological evidence.
A waterborne Borg cube made of reeds, nice!
resistance is futile
A further allusion to the flood myth comes from the Sumerian King List. As the name implies it's just lists kings, how long they ruled, the city they were ruling and maybe an epithet or short phrase to go along with them if the scribe felt like it. But starting off the list are 8 kings with reigns lasting tens of thousands of years each. They rule over five cities before "the flood swept over" and the subsequent kings have reigns of mere centuries. Not only the commonality of the flood but the names of the antediluvian cities match those founded in the Sumerian Flood Story.
I am fascinated by the Sumerian civilization - I'd appreciate more videos in the future regarding the intersection of the Sumerians and the proto-judeo cultures.
It's interesting that even though the biblical story only has one god, it still ends with a promise that the Flood will never again be repeated. Could this be an echo of the condemnation appearing in the earlier stories?
Interesting point. "Sorry, my bad." lol
The condemnation is still there its just been moved to Exodus Chapter 32. The Noah story is supposed to be read in a three fold structure with Lot and Moses but most analyses miss the Lot/Noah connection by censuring the linking sexual humiliation element by skipping the second halves of Genesis 9 and 19.
If god would have bothered to read the book about himself he would have realised its a bad idea to allow satan to tempt mankind and then drowning them after the fact wont make anything better either.
@@TheZodiacRipper do you seriously assume men having so little responsibility in their own action, it's always someone else tempting you? Reminds of that pastor who claimed the 8 year old boy "seduced" him. Temptation, satan, demons, that's all in your head. The whole point about temptation stories, is about men picking up responsibility for ONCE instead of pulling an Adam with his "ShE MaDe Me Do It".
@@KasumiRINA Always bringing gender into it smh.
It’s so weird how these earlier three tales were a story of more complexity, where some gods were wise and some thought themselves above humanity, which they technically were due to their power, but they still shouldn’t abuse said power and then the Hebrews decided to make it morally binary and boring and they didn’t even do a good job you mean to tell me that literally every human had only evil thoughts ever except for Noah and his family and the people they decided to marry i’m sorry, but describing the story of Noah’s flood as more ethical than it’s three prior versions is something that I’ll just never understand
It's really hard to do better than the Epic of Gilgameš, the most famous story of it's time.
Fun fact: TEVAH, or תיבה in Hebrew is a chest, like a box to store things.
Omg the clip of The Cube at the University of Michigan (11:43) sent me, I didn't expect my alma mater to be featured like this 😂
Hearing these older versions of the story is really neat! Thank You!
Reepicheep, the swashbuckling rat from The Voyage of the Dawn Treader captains his own little coracle
*mouse 🐭
There’s an ancient Hindu story about flood too
Insomniac here, Enlil was justified.
Amen
I love Irving Finkel 🥰 his book The First Ghost is great and his talk on Noah and the Ark is hilarious!!!
Hope to catch another of your live talks soon, I miss them lol
Keep up the amazing job, Dr Henry 👍
I've seen a documentary on this subject. They tried building a huge coracle, but it wouldn't really stay afloat without taking on a lot of water.
In my opinion, the whole story is a myth, but preserves a collective memory of a large flood event.....either the flooding of the Black Sea (some solid evidence of this) or the Persian Gulf (no real evidence but still possible). These flood events probably occurred at the end of the last Ice Age, when the sea levels rose. At a much earlier time...and again with no real evidence....the same thing MIGHT have happened with the Mediterranean, with the seas overflowing the Gibraltar Strait.
All of this is speculative (except for the Black Sea flood), but it's all very possible.
Early man may have lived in the Persian Gulf valley, and be driven out by the rising water...ie...flood. The same could have happened in the Mediterranean valley.
But until solid evidence is found, we will never know.
calling it a myth isn't opinion, it's scientific fact
I’m from the Netherlands, there were many epic floods the last 2000 years. In 1995 250,000 people and 1 million animals were evacuated from an area between several rivers.
@@jannetteberends8730 Yes, using modern technology and boat building and zoological knowledge, and. well, you get the drift.
@@LyleFrancisDelp I thought it could be different floods. When I only think of the numerous floods here. When you see older maps a lot of what is now water used to be land. There’s a flood in the Middle Ages where more than 20,000 people died.
@@jannetteberends8730
That boat must have smelled really bad!
They had dung beetles.
It's fiction so they get to ignore that part
That's the fun part about these sorts of stories. In both Judaism and Islam, stories were made about the minutaie of the boat and how it is run like how the lower decks are lighted with shining gemstones and how the quarters for animals and humans are divided along the sides of the body of Adam that they carried with them. One rabbi jokingly describes the Ark as a freaking submarine! In Islam, the boat is described as looking like the chest of a certain bird...
I'd love an indepth video on animal sacrifices, and especially fatty animals. Were these religions a way for priestly figures to get the best food types available in the region at no cost as "sacrifices"? Were they eaten or wasted?
This was a fun learning session for me.
This might be random but there are few people I could trust on the topic. I really wanna own and read a version of the modern bible that has notes historically contextualising every bit of it, like your videos. Do you have any good recommendation?
Damn, that ark tablet looks delicious! (sorry, I'm hungy)
Bro's eating rocks
The Flood stories including Deucalion from Ovid's Metamorphosis, and Utnapishtim from the Epic of Gilgamesh have always fascinated me. Their similarity Noachian Flood story in Genesis suggest that the story might have been influenced by, and in turn influenced other flood stories.
The story of Deucalion is much older than Ovid though.
What if they just all remembered the same flood?
It is interesting that many of these stories come from a region surrounded by rivers and subjected to frequent floods that fertilize the soil, but which have a potential to cause destructive floods.
Great presentation; I’ve read the research on this but this media format is nice and concise
My favorite guy!! Dr. Finkel!! I’m so glad you are making some videos on this subject. You’re phenomenal ❤
But don't you worry. The story of Noah's was real. The lion said when it was over the scenery was boring but the buffet was great.
😂
The flood story is also different in Genesis by suggesting that we have some control over our fate through our actions, implying that not everything good or bad that happens in our lives is purely arbitrary. By living a moral life, we can navigate the tragedies we face and/or avoid them altogether.
Ephesians 2:8-9
@eddiezanryder that thinking isn't unique to the bible and isn't well let's just say corresponds to reality too well
It would be surprising if it were exclusive to the Bible. It is a truth you discover as you live your life. Bad things happen like a flood, and some may think the gods just hate me. That's the original story. The Bible in the revised story is saying, "Do bad things, bad things will happen." Being a raging alcoholic, you're probably gonna to find it hard to keep a job and have stability. Lose your job when you're not a raging alcoholic. You're probably gonna get back on your feet quickly without compounding the problem for yourself. A rule of thumb of life for sure, and of course, there are always exceptions to rules of thumb.
@@eddiezanryder anyone denying man made climate change at this point is a conspiracy nut. No, the world won't just flood completely, but it will have other cataclysms, like heat waves RIGHT NOW, tornadoes, quakes, or climate anomalies like snow in summer. ALL because of men's folly.
Look at russia, it's burning, flooding and having locust swarms... for funnier event, they had worshipers at military temple of war struck by lightning. Of course our Ukrainian drones can do God's will and help. But the climate? Thanks to ExxonMobil, Total, BritishPetroleum and Lukoil...
No sane person would defend oil companies, regardless of your beliefs and political stance. There's a saying "after us, the deluge". This is what the story is about. Corrupt people not caring what happens after them and dooming everybody else... don't need to read to see fossil fuel billionaires destroying our planet.
@@eddiezanryder You are not spared from suffering just because you are a good person. Both suffering and happiness is a test.
I'm sure there are many gaps in our understanding of ancient mythology, but there is still a tangible progression in how this story evolved over time. The irony of a loving god eradicating humanity with a flood makes a lot more sense when you realize that one "god" was originally a villain-hero god pair.
What if it was the opposite chronology though? I could imagine people not liking the idea of the Genesis justice and this coming up with a duality of power instead
@@CalebNasiatka If you watched this video then it should be obvious that's not what the historical evidence suggests for this myth's evolution.
Wish you mentioned how Dr. Finkel commissioned the construction of an ark based on the description in the tablet he studied. It successfully floated, and was quite large and roomy.
Thanks for this video/research. I always assumed Gilgamesh story was the first.
Yet I still don’t know what Gofer wood is
The world may never know 😂
Wood coated with Kopher.
Some say it's a mistranlation of Ophir.
So, in conclusion, the story of Noah's Ark, is no less a myth than the myths that preceded it. No earth wide flood, no ark, no Noah.
Then how did every single ancient civilization around the world have the same flood noah boat story
No particular man named Noah, but I think the fact these stories of a huge flood are recorded across multiple cultures makes me think that there is likely something more to it.
@@UmmerFarooq-wx4yo They don't.
@@fordprefect5304 next you're going to tell me all atheists were molested into being atheists
@@fordprefect5304 next you're going to tell me that all atheists were molested into atheism
Mother nature is powerful and a huge flood like that isn't impossible but putting every pair of animal species on that boat is diabolical
To be fair, if you believe in God, God can 100% make that both happen and work.
Would it have to be every species though? Would some variety be able to be gained in a few millennia like Darwin's finches?
Props to you for figuring out a way to include the Noah's Ark SNES game in one of your videos.
Oh, and now I know what Reepicheep's boat was in "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader."
There is just so much richness to our world and collective human history. This video covers so many interesting myths from completely different cultures and time periods, but how many countless more must there have been that we’re not even aware of?
It reminds me of the film Prometheus made by Ridley Scot wherein the Engineers who ( according to the script ) had created Humans subsequently decided to finish their botched project , ...anyway this way of dealing with humanity was the reason why Marcion of Sinope came to believe that the God of the Old Testament Bible could not be the genuine Christian God .
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The classics have been fooling people for thousands of years.
Minute 18:34 Just as "the gods only jeopardized their own livelihood in destroying their human sources of support", so humans are only destroying their own livelihood by destroying their natural sources of support. It's important to allow the old stories into one's imagination.
This is great. I delight in filling in the gaps to understanding about this particular subject. If I could return to school, I would absolutely major in Assyriology.
One thing I've always found hilarious about biblical narrative is just how low of an opinion it has on humanity. Like the older myths were all "oh yeah this god was annoyed cause he couldn't sleep" meanwhile the Bible is all "you're all terrible people and deserve to die" LOL
The Bible holds emphasis on the wickedness of human hearts because of just how incongruent it is with how HIGH an opinion God has for us. Humans are made in the image of God! We were originally made to stand in the presence of the thrice holy God - to be rulers and subjugators of creation around us, but corrupted by our sins we no longer reflect that reality. You focus too much on the judgement of old when salvation is at hand for you today! Repent of your sins and submit your life to Christ that you may find redemption and salvation. His yoke is easy and his burden is light, go to him if you are weary in soul.
@@zr3.145I scrolled for 15 minutes and finally found one sane comment. God bless you brother. Let them subjugate and try to edify their uncongenial higher sense of moral that came from ___? Blank. Notice how its all based on a presumptuous consensus yet approached from an adhering of disbelief in God, obviously. Still waiting for science to clash with the Bible, let alone the generalization of the historicity depicted. Even when watching these videos through the lens of an "atheist" which in of itself is a religion according to the U.S. Supreme Court legally abided by the first amendment, still doesn't disprove which what was seemingly trying to be portrayed in the(se) videos, the Bible and Christianity.
Flood story, similar to the 4 ancient Middle-Eastern myths explained in this video, also exists in Chinese mythology. Similar to the Sumerian, Atrahasis and Gilgamesh flood stories, the Chinese one also involved two different deities: (1) Gong Gong, the God of water and (2) Nüwa, the Goddes who created humans. In our myth, Gong Gong had a disagreement with Zhu Rong, the God of Fire, and lost. In a fit of rage, Gong Gong destroyed the jade pillar, Mount Buzhou, which supported heaven and earth, turning earth into an ocean. Nuwa then saved the earth and humanity, which she created, by mending the sky with colorful stones. My people, the Chinese Hakka, still celebrate Sky Mending Day to this day.
Notice that in the Chinese flood story, we humans are not blamed for the flood. Contrast that with Yahweh (the God of Abraham), which put the blame on humans.
In the book of Enoch, humans are really not the only reason why YHWH sent the flood.
I believe you know the reason why the flood happened in the book of Enoch.
So Chinese also refuse to accept that it's fracking and drilling Earth for resources with no care in the world destroys our planet? Not even surprised, it's CCP's policy "after us the deluge". LITERALLY. My city is near the shore and in a few hundred years it will be underwater because of PEOPLE, not some magic spirits. @@edward1412 Enoch is not canonical though. Like a fanfic.
Didn’t Yahweh also start as a storm god back when the Hebrew religion was polytheistic? Wonder how early the flood myth entered the Hebrew tradition.
The flood myth is one of if not the oldest creation myth in existence. Pretty much every culture has had a version of it.
@@liammiskell3522 I know. I’m just wondering when in the Hebrew tradition it entered the mainstream and how early was Yahweh the one causing it. Since he was originally a storm god, it could have started with him in the forefront, but it depends on when it entered the mains stream since the religion was henotheist or polytheist until the second temple era when Yahwism became closer to what we recognize as modern day Judaism.
@@liammiskell3522 Which indicates that it actually happened and on a global scale.
@@RiteTheWrongs Yahweh was never a storm God. He was always the creator of everything. The religion has never been polytheist. Try and read a Bible for God's sake.
@@Willy_Tepes The biggest issue with that is that each local culture for the most part has a very different flood myth. The flood myth of egypt for example talks about how egypt was invaded by barbarians, and in order to stop them the gods flooded the nile with wine. The barbarians, thinking the wine was blood, all drank themselves to death. That is a very different story than the tigris/euphrates valley flood myth. Also the flood of the (i believe maya, might be aztec) was about a hurricane that destroyed structures, not an ark from which all humans descend from.
I just got home and got some food what a great addition thanks for the vid
Thanks for clarifying how the different pre-Biblical flood stories fit together. I am mostly familiar with the one in Gilgamesh and didn’t know how Atrahasis fit.
1:16 is incorrect. What really happened is that there was a decent amount of trade going on for centuries in the Fertile Crescent, until 1200 BCE, and during that time, traders also transported stories. It is incorrect to say that one group took from another group's story; rather, the story was told in both the East and the West, and people wrote it down at different times and in different versions.
Seems like history is always "it's not that simple".
Pretty much all of these myths go at least as far back as 5000 to 6000BC.
Probably much further.
@@liammiskell3522
Highly unlikely.
@@ricksimon9867 Why do you say that?
@@bocoom
8000 years ago, people had just started making boats, but no ships. A ship is not just "a big boat", it is a different concept. Therefore, the story of an ark cannot have existed 8000 years ago.
I left Christianity years ago and have since began a more polytheistic/pantheistic approach to my spirituality and so it's really interesting how the change from a polytheistic story to a monotheistic story ends up putting the blame on humanity for the actions of God. We're just too evil, too corrupt to be allowed to live. This is extended into Christian theology and really finds its ultimate form with the invention of "Original Sin" and the need for Jesus to save us from hell (instead of just not sending us to hell in the first place)
I came to the same conclusion. Left Catholicism years ago and now fully embracing my ancestral spirituality: Chinese syncretism, which a combination of a lot of things: ancestral worship, polytheism, animism and practice of philosophy. I can’t be happier!
We are definitely too evil and corrupt. But that's what makes the Gospel so Wonderful, that even despite our corruption - even in Noah's time, The Lord God loved us so as to bring a way of redemption and salvation from our wicked and sinful heart. And as you rightly say, salvation and redemption finds its ultimate form in the incarnation of God in Jesus Christ. Repent and believe in him again, only through him will you be saved.
It’s amazing, if not spooky, at how many myths parallel only to become less different the further back you go.
It really sets an idea that every religion is based on a long lost central one.
Absolutely.
The same goes with languages and genetics, they all point to common ancestrality the further back one goes. Speaking of languages, scriptures say they were of one language before the tower of Babel overthrow. They were dispersed as they could no longer understand each other, went and settled in their divisions and became nations. Having similar origins, it's not surprising their tales about their origins, the flood, sound similar, with some cultural twists.
God choosing one man, Abraham to teach his descendants His ways, makes sense as men all went their ways which are not always according to God's will.
@@bbl5499 so we making stuff up now, cool bro. You are no different form all religion's authors, all with bizarre imagination.
Another key similarity among all four myths is the resulting age of the hero. You mentioned the meaning of the names of the earlier heros, and they all explicitly or implicitly say that they ended up living long - or immortal - lives. With the Genesis myth, Noah is described to die at the ripe old age of 950 and that he "walked with God" - both old and kinda immortal.