Does Acetone also work for welding and smoothing PLA 3D printed parts?
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- Опубликовано: 8 дек 2016
- Supposedly you can use Acetone not just for welding and smoothing ABS, but also for PLA.... or can you? Only one way to find out!
Acetone is highly flammable (as it says on every jar). Please be safe when trying this!
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Hi Tom, I have been smoothing ABS and PLA for at least three years on at least a daily basi, and three years ago I made an experiment comparing different substances and their effect on ABS and PLA, I still have the 28 yodabudas (1 ABS, 2 PLA for each substance) from my test exposed in my house. I also test various coatings on parts.
What I found out is that even though some PLAs *are* affected by acetone, in the long run (weeks or months afterward) *all of them degrade and crack*, I have a few pictures if you want.
On the other hand, in this test I also found three substances that work well with PLA. In order of strength (less strong first): tetrahydrofuran, dichloromethane, chloroform. These work so well that sometimes after finishing the part is so smooth that it is actually indistinguishable from a inject plastic part - you might _suspect_ you have a printed part due to the _absence_ of injection seams and marks. Notice that these are all lab liquids, and must be handled with protection and extra care. All of them must be vapor smoothing, and you can also make an analogous with 'abs juice' with all of them. However, specially for chloroform, you might want to coat them with lacquer or varnish afterwards (XTC-3G works well) because further exposition to elements will otherwise slowly create minuscule cracks after a couple months.
Ah, and last but not least: ethyl acetate *does not work* for PLA. It has some residual effect but it is much like that of acetone, and the part starts degrading and cracking in a few weeks.
BTW: sorry to correct you, but the part does not 'melt' with the vapor smoothing. It dissolves, which is a completely different phenomenon. The engineer withing me cringes every time someone mistakes melting for dissolving or vice-versa.
*****
I have not yet tried butanone, good advice, I will try it, thanks. And sorry for my aggressive way of speaking, I know you know the difference, it is just that I police myself so much not to confuse these things that something 'tingles' in me when I read other people confusing.
To buy these solvents in Brazil (where I live) it is even more complicated. I had to request federal permission to be able to buy them, including acetone, and you have a limit of 2 liters per month. And now I am in the process of requesting permission from the army to buy hydrofluoric acid (maximum 2 liters I think).
Theres DCM at amazon.es perhaps you can have it delivered to Germany as I've bought stuff from amazon.de in the past and deilvered to my home in Spain. Or I can get you a bottle if interested. Or we can share 50% of a bottle if you want hehe
Kann man hier kaufen: www.hood.de/i/dichlormethan-reinst-99-9-225-ml-53476385.htm nur sind mir die Sicherheitsbedenken zu groß.
Ahmad Firdaus Ismail there is no secret. I vapor smooth them. I have a chemical enclosure with an industrial exhaust at my lab where I heat a becker via an electrical heater (so that it does not generate flames or sparks). I wait for the chloroform to start boiling then I dip the part with tongs in the becker for about 10 to 40 seconds. I use a full-face gas mask, nitrile gloves and lab coat to deal with it, and after I finish I let the exhaust take care of the vapors for about 5 minutes until I turn it off.
Weld-on #4 is primarily dichloromethane. I use it for gluing pieces together.
tetrahydrofuran is what you want to weld PLA - it works insanely well. It's pretty safe for a solvent, but more volatile than acetone and can form explosive peroxides if exposed to UV light for extended periods of time - so is sold in brown glass bottles. It'll do PLA, ABS, HIPS and PVC. Give it a shot if you can find some locally! It's stupidly thin though... get a very fine applicator.
If it's very thin try touching seamlines of your join with a brush loaded with the liquid and let capillary action draw it around to all the joints that you're welding. It's a technique we use alot in the plastic modelling world with Tamiya Extra Thin polystyrene cement.
Maker's Muse Thanks for that info Angus I'll start looking for some of that.
Be aware that it is supposedly carcinogenic, and its vapors are very flammable. Use in small quantities in a well vented environment only, and don't sniff. :-)
Just go get some PVC glue or PVC cement (it's usually mostly stabilized THF) at your local hardware or home depot store. Just make shure to read the safety data sheet and instructions before use. As with all solvents, be careful, stay safe and protect yourself. We don't need more people making the news because they set a house on fire because of an abusive use of 3D printers and chemicals/hairsprays... ;)
Chloroform and dichloromethane too, read my post.
Good to know about acetone welding PLA. I'd been trying some different epoxies and glues but haven't been impressed. I'll be trying this on my coffee table! Thanks
the welding technique you use , is actually the same technique we used at my shop to weld abs binding strip to wood for decorating guitars body and necks . and it works very well !
i didn't know that too - so thank you very much for testing. now i could eventually weld some of my 3D prints as i ever wanted to do - but without a 3D Printer with a heated bed i wasnt able to print abs. So, yea great stuff. And as always, thank you for your videos!
I've been experimenting with acetone and regular PLA and have noticed that the layers tend to fuse together and smooth over when the acetone is applied with a towel. Also have had interesting results using 2k grit sandpaper and acetone.
Great video! I'm watching & learning, so that soon I can custom print a cab for my 14th scale RC semi truck!
thanks for the welding tip :D keep up the top work!
Thanks Tom. I had no idea this was possible, although I rarely print with PLA. (Just now starting to use some derivatives)
I love this experimental stuff directly showing whats going on.
Thank you! I had always wondered about this and your research is appreciated!
I used this method for my controlled asessment, and I want to thank you for sharing your Acetone Welding tutorial :)
Great information! Thanks for sharing this.
The Bonding of PLA with acetone is really helpfull. Now I know that I don't have to use Superglue. Thanks!
when you get superglue stuck where it shouldnt be .. acetone ... yup it softens that too ... also known as nail polish remover
@@0623kaboom i feel like acetone is worse, some 120 grid sandpaper does the tric as well, but acetone can really damage your skin
I like to use Nitrocellulose Clear guitar laqure spray. if you spray heavy it does melt the PLA layers whilst also giving your print a smooth shiny waterproof hard surface
I've found acetone is pretty decent for paint prepping pla parts when I'm not smoothing them and want to pain parts en masse, I'll pour some over a part or dunk a part in and then let it all air out for a day or two and it ends up, at least with the white pla I use, with a nice matte finish that paint sticks to really well and while it takes longer to get all nice and ready it's more thorough and involves less effort than priming for a pretty similar effect.
I have noticed similar results with acetone on Colorfabb & ProtoPasta PLA. I did however notice model cements containing MEK worked quite nicely when brushed on a model to smooth stuff over!
Acetone on my Colorfabb PLA HP doesnt really do anything. I tried sanding and then applying the acetone on both sides, but it does not react in the slightest. Did you try another application method?
Totally going to try and weld pieces together with acetone
Tom. PLA and PLA based filaments can be smoothed with Chloroform (CHCl3). Works like acetone with ABS.
Regards,
Matej
With basic white PLA for me it kinda did, not as smooth as ABS but it did fuse the layers of my comb together and added some flex.
Very cool Tom!
I didn't know about this until well just now, I like that it can be used for adhearing two parts together👍👍
Thanks for sharing and as always keep building👍
I've found that n-butylacetat (the stuff that Revell contacta glue is made of) works really well to glue pla parts together, that and the very fine needle like tip that comes with the glue bottles makes it easy to use, so that's what i usually use.
One thing that works for me is pouring acetone on a paper towel and rubbing PLA vigorously - it really polishes the surface quite well, but for thicker lines, you will still need to use sandpaper.
I love your videos!
Great video!! 👏👏👏👏
Tried dissolving some PLA leftovers in pure Aceton to make a printbed slushy but even after weeks it did not dissolve visibly.
You did another video where you strength-tested various adhesives for PLA - it would be REALLY useful to test the strength of acetone welded PLA compared to your preferred LocTite superglue solution.
For strength you dunk the part in acetone for about 10 seconds. Make sure your part has at least 2mm of wall thickness. I noticed when sanding that there where no layer lines. The part came out exceedingly strong to say the least.
I'd love to see an overnight set for the vapor smoothing
Important note here this does not work with *pure PLA*.
But since most commercial available PLA filaments are blends with other stuff in it to improve printing characteristics chances are very high that it works. And from what I have seen the paint bucket method with very little and cold acetone vapor over long time period (6h+) works best.
As usual Tom tests and answers all the questions for us.
Didn't expect the PLA to glue with acetone, gonna give it a try next time instead of superglue.
Mith busters stile? :) As always very interesting! Thanks Thomas!!!
*myth *style
I bought some isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol) from my local electrical store, just for cleaning the printer bed, but Apparently it can smooth PLA. I believe it's what the Polysher is based on.
You should try adding a soaked pad in front of the part cooler while printing to test layer bonding. Or try a slightly soaked dust cleaner on the filament.. maybe it stays long enough on the surface to increase layer adhesion. Or it just burns in the nozzle...
Interesting!
I make an acetone-abs slurry and paint it on my parts when i need a really strong piece but don't need quality. you should try it.
Ok if you have some PETG parts lying around, please do testing on vapor smoothing PETG with Acetone. :D
just started to do smooth experiments..i bought a dremel 3d45 and was using their complimentary "eco abs" which is just pla plus i guess. Anyway...i dunked and vapor bathed..for like 24 hours lol. gave it a glossy finish at the end though. Then i remembered back in the chemical room at work we have Toluene....i mixed it with acetone and damn...results were fantastic. with ABS itll be immaculate guaranteed
Another awesome video, Thanks for sharing Tom.
I can see an influx of people printing multi part prints and using the Solvent Welding method instead of messing around with Glue.
I couldn't see in the Video but what did the seem end up looking like between the parts?
Thomas Sanladerer So no crazy unremovable white stains like Super Glue. I asked about the seam quality to see if it would actually weld an fill tight joints or if it just bonds them together. 👍 Keep up the great tests Tom it's always a pleasure watching your Channel.
cool video and awesome info as always beother
I've just tried the welding trick with some black Jandex PLA, and there was no adhesion whatsoever. The acetone didn't cover the surface like in your video but was sucked up immediately, making the surface dull and a little soft. Oh, and the Acetone did leave white marks wherever even a tiny droplet splashed. So, as usual, YMMV, I guess...
Zoidberg can't get squishy enough.
Has any one heard any updates on the PollySmooth filiment that was supposed to start shipping this month "DEC" ?
Also I have tried acetone with the cheep PLA plastics from ebay and never been able to weld parts that way or even get a sticky surface, what I get is the PLA with take on a white or gray hazzy look.
Hello, love the video. Can you tell me how to prevent resin from sticking to pla printed molds. Thank you.
thanks for the tips
A question for smoothing and PLA, is heat tempering in an oven (50°C) a viable smoothing option for PLA?
Yes, often called annealing
The song is feel something by aveno
What about cyclohexanone? I used to use that when I built disposable blood collection kits. We bound vinyl to acrylic, and there were other plastic parts, but I don't know if it was PLA, ABS, or PVC.
Interesting Tom. Can you test for us the effects on a variety of brands. I suspect there could be trace amounts of other plastics, or chemical reactions in the dyes that are causing this reaction compared to other users anecdotes of no reactions.
Wow !
I've used this for other formulations of PLA and had no effect whatsoever. You really have to test what you've got. Not all PLAs are equal.
Same here. I have been testing this for three years.
Cláudio Sampaio I have done extreme acetone vapor by suspending my PLA print in a 4 liter jar with 2 liters of acetone for 24 hours at about 15 degree C. The print absorbed acetone and became soaked, expanded to about 120% of its original size, became soft and squishy, and no polishing whatsoever.
Yup
Are you recommending using acetone to weld PLA parts together permanently or will the part degrade over the weeks as you pointed out with the dunking process?
Nice idea, how long did you soak the 3D printed items into acetone ? thanks
Try paint stripper. The stuff that has the warning not to use in a bathtub. Make sure it's done with a garage door open or outside though. The fumes are hard to stay safe from in an enclosed space. Even a respirator is only effective for a short period of time. It's known to punch holes in filters...so if u need to actually strip a bathtub I recommend a supplied air system lol. I know from welding acrylic that stripper is much stronger than acetone. I also know the little bottle acctached to the side of large cans is misleading, it said stripper sprayer ...idk why the club bouncers escorted me out 😂
Beside using acetone, is wet sanding a good move for finishing a PLA printed part or is water going to compromise its internal structure?
From a chemist: PLA is a polar compound meaning it has a charge. This is why it is water sensitive. To dissolve any type of PLA you need a polar solvent, such as Ethyl Acetate
Does this Ethyl Acetate require a well ventilated work space? Anything to know?
Sevendogtags Its not bad. Treat it like acetone. Yiu can distill it from non-acetone nail polish remover
Tesla Do you have a link to the process of how to distill it?
Tesla
Yes, some explanation about distilling nail polish remover would be much appreciated. :)
www.phillysim.org/newmanual/Dist_nExptB.pdf
I tried to vapor smooth one of my PLA prints and it worked really good with acetone. For that I used some acetone I got from the pharmacy and poured some of that into a big glass with a lid. Then I put the closed glass onto the heat plate (heated to 100°C) of my printer and let the acetone vaporize for a bit. Next I got a little piece of wire and attached it to my print and hung it into the glass for about a minute keeping the lid closed. The material I used was FormFutura's EasyFil PLA. Here's the result: envent.de/pics/PLA_acetone_print.jpeg
You country might be selling pure acetone on pharmacies. Mine does not, it sells something mixed with alcohols and water, and besides not working properly for parts, it has a terrible effect of degrading and blemishing on the surface. So be advised.
I've been curious about what solvent could work on PLA parts. I have access to some pretty strong chemicals, such as Methyl Ethyl Ketone, and I was going to do some tests to see if any of them will effectively smooth out PLA.
I'm going to test these on Monday. I'll let you know what I find out.
After 5 years what is the result 😄 is any chemicals smoothing pla?
The result was instant death.
I have 99% iso alcohol can I use a paint brush to smooth and weld the lines together?
And if I put it in a spray bottle and put it on mist would that work as well?
I also got some ABS filiment so not sure if that can even be done using 99% iso alcohol?
I wonder if a redesigned 3D printer could apply a solvent vapor during printing to make the layers adhere better? I see there could be complications to this, I'm just trying to think outside the box a bit.
Would be expensive to not only engineer the safety but in materials used as to not be susceptible to degradation from acetone exposure. It’s a dangerous process when you have flammable fumes in an enclosed area around active electronics… deffff best to keep those processes separate!
Also, acetone is not an appropriate smoother for PLA, in general it does not work, and will cause micro cracks internally (since it’s absorbed into the part) that often won’t reveal how structurally compromised the part is until weeks/months later
Cheers
Chloroform or Tetrahydro-furan is working pretty well for PLA.
Nice. Have you tried to vapor PLA in Ethyl Acetate?
For PLA plastic use the CH2Cl2
Hi Thomas, do you climate control your room? Reason I ask is how do you get all of your air-exposed filament on the racks behind you from drying out?
Hi Thomas, just wondering: you put your fingers in the acetone without any gloves on. I thought acetone is bad for the skin?
From what I’ve seen acetone effects some pla's more than others, on paper ethyl acetate is the chemical of choice for pla, I have some waiting at the post office to clean out a rather well jammed nozzle.
i've done extensive testing with PLA, and dichloromethane (DCM) is the only true PLA solvent i've found which works with _all_ PLA. acetone doesn't even scratch most PLA, and tetrahydrofuran (THF) works only very weakly.
look for scigrip weld-on #4. it works on PLA like acetone works on ABS.
Gentlemen, now that my eythl acetate arrived today and after soaking some bits for only a few hours the pla "welded" to them has become soft and could be scrapped off with ease, i'm putting them back in overnight to see how well it does with a decent soak along with a very clogged hexagon hotend :D
Chloroform is even better than dichloromethane actually. I use it all the time nowadays.
Try using acetone to make PLA parts flexible, but having little to no infill and only one to two outer shells. Then put then in acetone for a few hours.
well it only really works for that particular PLA, most pla is totally unaffected
I’ve heard dichloromethane works much better for PLA
Hi Tom, acetone-smoothing invariably causes shrinkage in my ABS parts. a good 2% - 10% How come no one talks about this?
I smooth PLA with acetone but use the acetone as a heat carrier, I boil the acetone and dip the part in the vapor layer. It takes 5 seconds to smooth. Please note while this method is highly effective it is also highly dangerous, I use a glass beaker so i can see where the super heated vapor is (it has a visible condensation line), like Thomas mention highly flammable (I use a lab heated magnetic stirrer.. NO OPEN FLAMES) and a fume hood.
can i mix acetone with epoxy? Because i am not sure if acetone is going to work on my pla parts.
I'm, not a chemist or anything, but I've heard that acetone has an effect on metals. So you should use strong plastic or ceramic containers.
i wonder if you could bake and acetone polish them in the oven at the same time for a stronger bond. but i wouldnt recommend it because acetone is really flammable, also acetone vapor is not very good for you, please use it in a ventilated area.
ps. finally got my printer! i build it in 2 days, i didnt do the calibration or software setup yet but im taking it slow and enjoying the build. (geeetech prusa i3 pro c)
What coarseness sandpaper do u use for std pla to get a matte smooth finish?
How pure is the PLY you used? Might the acetone have been affecting an additive instead of the PLA itself?
Copyrighted music brah. But I love the vid. Thanks for the good info
I use chloroform for smoothing PLA and making PLA glue to bind parts together. Allegedly DCM will work too, but never tried it. To be safe about it you have to vent the fumes somehow...If you don't have access to a fume hood, then you can build one, certainly not more complicated than the 3d printer itself.
Hey i not really sure if u already did this but, can you make a video like laser printer vs extrusion printer? And the time to print, witch one is faster, and etc PLEASE
yeah the SLA vs FDM
can you give link download the models used in the video?
can i make the same acetone bath That people use on ABS to smooth theirs prints but using chlorofome in PLA? im trying but dont know if its making any affect (obviusly im using gloves, mask, glases etc)
Welding with acetone is a great tip.
Does anyone know how it compares with regular glue? Acetone is probably cheaper.
What about the strength of the PLA acetone welding? Is it as strong as cyano glue?
You tried one PLA in one method.
One youtuber does varying PLA from different companies in a few methods with good results on some brands
I wonder if the paint can procedure will work with rubbing alcohol and polysmooth.
What about if you have it on a paper tower and lightly rub it on the surface?
also kann ich theoretisch mit normalem pla einen Flummi herstellen indem ich ,angenommen eine Kugel, in Aceton einlege?
You say (1:14) that a lot of strength is lost after treating with acetone. This is due to the acetone which has been absorbed into the plastic. I'm sure the part will regain its previous strength after all the absorbed acetone has evaporated away, perhaps after 24 hours?
I've noticed that with PLA, it depends on the brand and color. Some work, some don't.
Why did it make sense to you to heat the acetone prior to opening the can, letting tge vapor escape, then putting the 3d model in?
The acetone is probably acting more on the modifiers the manufacturers use in their PLA recipe than on the actual PLA resin.
Could you expound on what you mean by "modifiers"? Thanks!
@@mikebevan1034 The PLA filament you buy is not a pure product. Manufacturers add ingredients to control the melting point and flow characteristics along with cosmetic ingredients such as pigments and ingredients that create matte or "silky" textures.
Tom, I love your videos! keep up the good work. I linked to your channel in a video series I have been working on with my Delta Printer. checked it out if you would like.
Hey Tom,
PETG works with chloroform. Viel Spass! ;)
Ich hab genau die gleiche Acetonflasche daheim
What if you did the acetone vapour was in a heated chamber? that might be more effective.,
Dust Filament, do you possibly have a link, google search produced nothing
What about using commonly available PVC cement (as intended for plumbing)?? I had very good results laminating ABS sheets with it. I wonder if it would be an effective PLA cement... will have to try it. As for smoothing, I've been playing with a hot air pencil, the type used for reflow soldering. It has some promise, but the best results are for hot air welding of PLA. Overall, I just don't think PLA flows on its own like ABS. Thanks for the informative video!
PVC glue or cement is usually just stabilized Tetrahydrofuran (THF) anyway. It's known to act with PLA just like acetone does with ABS (works for smoothing too). So, you should get pretty good results using PVC cement. There could be other chemicals in PVC specific glue too, so maybe check the labels or look/ask on the manufacturer website to get some information on the composition. However, you have to keep in mind that not every PLA filament is the same, some have additives that can change the chemical properties so solvents don't work as good as with other manufacturers. Some "PLA" labeled filaments can even be smoothed pretty well with acetone as well. You basically have to do some experiments with different plastic blends from different sources to find the right composition.
i have had extremely poor results gluing PLA with THF.
the true PLA solvent is dichloromethane (DCM). it works great.
No, chloroform (trichloromethane) is better.
I've used yellow ABS cement for pipe on PLA and it works great for gluing parts together. I have used it on eSun PLA+ in Silver and Black.
Could a heat gun or propane flame be used to smooth the surface?
Yes you can use a heat gun or torch to smooth PLA. The major issue with these methods is trying not to overheat the part and causing it to melt. It is easy to melt a part with these processes. I've done it with varying results.
@@valveman12 heat gun with temperature control would be better option. but it is still knife's edge between soothing and totally melting.
you can vapor smooth pla with ethyl acetate my experience with acetone pla is that it depends on the pla. some pla are blends and those may vapor smooth. color fabb is one that I have heard will smooth with acetone vapor.however in general pla will not vapor smooth with acetone.
I acetone all my pla prints. They are smooth and retain far more detail than vapour and abs. I simply dont understand why people dont experiment more.
Try cpvc cement. The kind meant for fire protection not domestic plumbing.