I know somewhere in the comments this had to be mentioned but industrial safety guidelines state that all electrical components in an explosive environment must be hermetically sealed and intrinsically safe. Brushless or not, unless it’s approved for this type of operation it’s really a big deal and could result in a fire or explosion if the vapors are concentrated enough. I investigated a aerosol recycling plant explosion several years ago. They started to evacuate the propellant and after about 20 minutes realized the scrubber fan was off. They turned it on and blew the roof half off killing three inside. Stay safe out there everyone.
Lol, like someone in youtube would know more than Josef Prusa himself. The dude invented the Prusa printers, I am sure that if he can invent this he knows more than enough, notice he even mentioned about working in a ventilated area and the fire risks of the dangerous chemical Acetone. Im very happy with my Original Prusa i3 mk3, its a beast so i don't have doubts about what he says.
@@teresashinkansen9402 lol, get your nose out of his arse. He may be smart, but does he know everything? Of course not. As if he's the smartest man on RUclips.
PLA can be vapor smoothed; ive done it numerous times. The thing is you need a plastic/solvent combination that acts quite fast, so you can hit the surface without melting down the interior. And temperature plays a big role in this. It just so happens that acetone-ABS works fine around room temperature. Ethyl-acetate works quite fine for most PLAs, but you need to do it in a box around 50-60c; otherwise the vapor pressure of the stuff is too low, and you will get similar 'rubberization' problems as with plain acetone+PLA. Playing with heat and volatile chemicals may not be everyones cup of tea; but putting a water bath with possibly a thermostat heater in the bottom of your plastic box is quite safe. Just stay under the boiling point of whatever volatile substance you are working with; that goes for acetone as well.
Thank you for the suggestion. I've had a lot of PLAs lying around so feels like kind of a waste getting other filament materials just to try the acetone smoothing as of now. Will try them.
so for clarification, if I have a PLA model, say the size of a helmet, and have it on a stand in a box with a fan, with a layer of Acetone under the helmet (not touching the helmet) and then have that box in a hot water bath at 50 deg C, after 20 minutes the PLA should be smooth? and how much acetone do you think would be required for such a project?
I appreciate the video, but feel like it's a shame that the hotbed underneath the smoothing station was not mentioned. I built almost an identical box, with a slightly different shaped clear PP container and was so confused when after a couple of hours my prints had not been smooth at all. Turns out, the acetone is actually being heated in this video by the standalone printer bed.
Making a part stronger would make sense since a smoother surface also means a surface with fewer stress crack initiation sites as increased smoothness reduces stress concentration sites. Although, given that, I'm not sure why the tensile strength would be reduced.
I totally agree with your analysis on crack initiation sites on the surface for Sharpy and adherance tests. Concerning the tensile strength, this probably have something to do with the orientation of your print. For instance a specimen printed horizontally or vertically don't have the same tensile strength. I assume that printing horizontally (where layer are in the same direction as the force you apply) is much stronger when confronted to tensile stress. Therefore, the melted part might tend to loose the cohesion between layers which result in a lower tensile resilience.
@@dr.hawaske8488 it's actually the exact opposite of this. the tests in the video showed that layer adhesion was increased from vapor smoothing as it effectively fused the layers together which is why you cant really see the layer lines. this is also probably why the samples performed slightly better in the impact resistance, as better layer adhesion would probably have some effect in an impact. however, the parts had worse tensile strength because some of the acetone was likely still in the parts, and the actone itself would weaken the part, I mean it literally melted it which is why the parts were smooth. Hope this answered any questions you had.
Well there goes my weekend, my immediate thought was that I'd try this and insert my hand into the hot acetone vapor. I guess I'll have to just make do with ordinary water steam.
For about a year I was exposed to Acetone and Toluene vapours at work. Over that year I started to become very irritable and angry. My fume hood wasn't working properly, and so I continued to get major doses of this. Please, be careful with Acetone. It's highly volatile and absorbs quickly. Wear gloves and work in very well ventilated areas. You do not want to experience the personality changes brought about by acetone poisoning.
In the layer-adhesion test, the better mechanical load capability is clearly due to the changed geometry of the radius. It got alot bigger and thus didn't function as a weak point anymore
This is similar to Case Hardening with metals. The tests point to that as well. The outer structure has been optimized while in inside remains relatively the same. Try tumbling them in media or a light shot peening and I’d be they get even marginally better.
From what i can see you add acetone on the bottom of the tank,put abs parts on some sort of platform,close down the tank and turn on the fan. You are using acetone vapour to smooth abs prints. Very clever!
I smoothed PLA topologies with dichloromethane. Worked pretty nicely, though not quite as good as ABS with acetone. For referece: Printed in REAL PLA silver and red. Though I understand that DCM is not easily available.
@@CambridgeSuper8 I'm a chemist working in a lab, only using it with proper safety measures is a given. The carcinogenic properties for DCM are established in animals but not humans, meaning if it is indeed seriously carcinogenic in humans we would have known so for a long time.
@@Doping1234 i am a chemist in the lab as well! it is serious for human, it is being established in mammals! Banned in many labs unless no alternative solvents, normal gloves dont protect with DCM. Not available for the untrained people and very bad for the environment. This solvent and DMF should not be recommended for work outside a ventilated fumehood.
@@CambridgeSuper8 ofc it is for use in professional context alone. The fact that carcinogenity is likely alone is not particularly relevant because it is qualitative, if the effect size is so small that finding conclusive evidence is hard that is relevant in assessing its danger, too. Or would you equate ingesting alpha emitters with dcm?
Its funny to me how many precautions are given regarding acetone in handy work type videos. Yet it goes on the hands, feet and nails of millions of adults and children that paint their nails or use various types of nail extensions
It would be safer to design a fan where the motor is outside the box and the axle enters through a small hole, like how a convection oven is usually built. With the fan motor directly exposed to the vapours, there is an explosion risk if the motor fails, or if you unwittingly use a brushed motor.
Yeah but it is like a closed system and it needs to be closed or the acetone gets out. The fan needs to be inside the chamber and it cannot pull fresh air. So there is no good way to place the fan outside. An oven is not fully closed. It pulls fresh air and air can escape through the sides. You normally can feel it. There are closed ovens but they have fans that can resist the temperature but that is again the same as the acetone chamber and the fan is literally inside.
What about dimensional stability? Can you explore PVB more since it requires just IPA? How does part strength and flexibility compart to PLA, nylon, ASA, PETG, etc?
According to wikipedia ethylacetate and pyridine can be used to smooth PLA. In general, just take a solvent which is able to dissolve the plastic (there is always one, but be aware of the safety rules).
The only thing I know is that PLA is really soluble in organochlorides like dichloromethane or trichloromethane (Chloroform). They are even videos on RUclips of people using them to smooth PLA. But of course organochlorides are all pretty toxic and should be handled with coution although DCM is a little bit less toxic then the rest.
Idea :print extra rough. Throw watery gypsum at it. Works for precise negatives from clay. Gypsum becomes more gooey and less watery over time, so that's for very freshly made gypsum water . Could make big prints look really nice n well, manual, for cheap. You can take sandpaper to it too.
I've done smoothing of PETG with Acetone and it works great. I think it's important to get the part in the smoothing box right away after printing though.
Great video! I bought some FiberSmooth PVB filament and I plan to use this method, except with isopropyl alcohol. PVB is supposed to print like PLA but smooth with isopropyl alcohol.
This is a great video. I make lots of huge 3D printable projects and a lot of the stuff covered in this video could make my life a lot easier. Will absolutly try some of this out on some of my future projects. Thanks for sharing, liked and subscribed
Josef Prusa, i like your ideas how to improve things, but.... Vapours, dust, heath and sparking are dangerous . I know quiet a lot of explosion enviroments as i work in such. I would move electronic parts outside of the container and drill a hole in a lid for rod an put on the fan blades or make it similar as magnetic pump for liquids.
That's illogical - the last thing you want is to be forcing air into the box, the acetone needs moving *around* the box. Use a smaller box, use as little liquid as possible, shouldn't be an issue anyway - brushless motors.
we even made a acetone 'baker' out of an discarded crockpot with a stand in it to put the things on.. a little acetone in the bottom, then the vapors would atomize and smooth.. did this couple years back.. everyone was asking us how we got the finish so smooth... too bad doesn't work on the new pla plus stuff..
I've worked with Acetone, and Paint thinner almost every day for 13 years in the advertising business. I'm as healthy as a horse. No health-related issue whatsoever. Of course, the place was well ventilated.
@@littlejacob25 THIS only if you need highest possible standards.. since there's a difference between a room temperature 10cent goldfish and a 100dollar sweet or salt water tropical fish ;)
If i am not mistaken, many of theese fans use comutated brushed motor, a potential source of sparks. I am not sure whether it is safe tu use in flammable atmosphere. Otherwise i enjoy the video, thanks for the content of such a quality.
PC fans use brushless motors , and have done for many years. Depending on the plastic used in the fan, there may be some effect from the acetone vapour, but ignition risk is likely to be very low.
Having a fan inside the box could be a fire risk. When a dc motor ins it can create sparks on the brushes. There is a motor rating in chemistry to prevent motor ignition of flammable chemicals
I dunno. everyone I've heard talking about resin says that, while it looks amazing and it's great for miniatures and the like, it has absolutely no give, so if it's a functional part and you need smooth detail for that function, like a small gear that needs enough detail to let the teeth of other gears smoothly enter and exit, something that's been acetone smoothed will have a longer working life because it'll be able to deal with the stress for longer without breaking.
I imagine it's forcing the imperfections to mould together making a tighter hold, the same way they treat glass on smartphones to make them stronger or like the old German glass that never breaks just without the heat.
Really nice video. Dont you fear your fan could cause an ignition of the vapors due to electric arcs in the dc motor? or do you use a brushless fan? i would like to build such a box but i am very uncomfortable with a dc motor and combustable vapor
As beginner been looking for some advice. And now have even more questions. So: fan most of them are made of abs how long they last? Hi concentration vapours can ignite easily with electrostatic discharges which sometimes occurs on fast moving plastic parts, also even brushless motors can generate tiny sparks, heat, and magnetic field all of them can ignite vapours off different chemicals. Box how long it lasts for? And another I had a a lot of occasions to play with the strength tester. With numerous different materials and there is some behaviours tendency especially characteristic to plastics I never had situation that piece was weaker to pull force than twist or share. Are you sure that tested piece wasn't faulty? Dipper you dig more things to learn you find.
We used a PP (Polypropylene) storage box from IKEA. It's mentioned in the article linked in description - there you can find out more information about chemical smoothing various materials.
There's an article linked in the video description that talks about it ;) "There is one more (and cheap) method how to make every model smooth evenly - and that is warming the acetone. But be aware that this method is dangerous and we cannot stress this more - if you decide to heat acetone, you are doing it at your own risk. Do it as far as possible from anything flamable, wear protective equipment (face shield, gloves etc.) and always check the box (stay in a distance and always watch it). Working in a safe environment is absolutely essential - we can’t stress that enough. If you are not sure about it, use the cold method or buy a professional smoothing station. Better safe than sorry! Now, if you aren’t discouraged by our safety warnings, let’s see the list of recommended hardware. As we said, we’re going to heat up the acetone bath. Its fumes will increase in volume and if there would be a source of ignition in the sealed box, it could cause an explosion. Please, keep in mind that the box must not be perfectly sealed to prevent pressure build-up inside. We recommend using a light plastic plate with no locks (just lying on top of the box) and making a couple of tiny holes in the lid to help acetone fumes escape. Under no circumstances a box with rubber isolation and any type of locks should be used!" blog.prusaprinters.org/improve-your-3d-prints-with-chemical-smoothing_36268/
After proper cleaning it is. Smoothing is even recommended to reduce the surface area on which bacteria and fungi can grow. But be sure to use FDA compliant filament because most of the filament in the market isn't. There are some helpful articles out there how to print FDA compliant parts including lists of safe materials and how to smooth them out.
Does the acetone warp the plastic container you put it in? I would be afraid it would eat through it. or at least warp it. Also does 10-15 minutes of acetone vapor cause deformation or do you have to keep it in a lot longer (ASA I'm talking about) ?
PVB seems really neat. But just by quick search PVB seems to be, at least in the US, a unicorn. Wonder why this type isn't more widely used. It says that it has alot of print characteristics of PLA when printed but can be smoothed with IPA as you said
Hi, I'm curious to know if I intend to vapor smooth PVB (or any oter filament), is it better to align the seams, or to choose a random pattern ? Because I wonder if the rim created by the aligned seem will also be blended evenly as the rest (my intuition says no...)
Here is an idea, use an air assist nozzle like commonly used on small lasers, but put the air pump in a container with acetone in... so the air it blows at the "welds" contains the vapor as it prints...
It is risky, indeed. We didn't have any trouble so far with Noctua fan inside our box but still, safety first. This process is only for people who can make enough safety peracutions. Those who are not sure enough should use a cold method or professional smoothing station mentioned in our article.
@@kopykat9993 Maybe if you mounted a motor outside the box and the fan blades inside, connecting them with a shaft? If only I knew of a way to quickly and cheaply manufacture plastic parts...
Attention, the fans mounted in a potentially explosive environment, and this is it, must comply in Italy with the Atex standards, if there should be a breakage of the bearings, short circuits deriving from the corrosion of the cables, sparks would arise and a fire would be triggered. Attention.
You might have been printing with one of the ABS materials that we mentioned in the video. They print and warp a bit better, but cannot be significantly smoothed. (e.g. ABS-T) - Mikolas
@@Prusa3D I did a test and even the Hatchbox would not completely melt so after all of the brands I tried I then knew what the issue was and that they were not 100% ABS. To get 100% ABS the price would 1.5 to 2x in the USA or around 40-50 USD per kilo.
I got a crested gecko articulated print that is very scrappy, I need to know how to smooth it without getting rid of the bumps. And I don't know what to paint it with. Please help me.
After testing and much thought I must disagree with this method because: 1. If you use the wrong fan that has brushes the sparks could cause ignition. Also the fan just causes the acetone to evaporate. If you want to do this way then do Outdoors. for safety reasons such as fire risk. 2. If acetone would simply be kept contained in an enclosed container the vapor pressure alone will get the acetone fumes to maximum concentration but it will take 2 or more hours to smooth.
@@Prusa3D I've had same results. Fan is absolutely necessary. Btw. the Ikea Samla box (used in the video) is really ideal for this application. It is PP and its lid is very loose and it easily flies of in case of combustion.
I know somewhere in the comments this had to be mentioned but industrial safety guidelines state that all electrical components in an explosive environment must be hermetically sealed and intrinsically safe. Brushless or not, unless it’s approved for this type of operation it’s really a big deal and could result in a fire or explosion if the vapors are concentrated enough. I investigated a aerosol recycling plant explosion several years ago. They started to evacuate the propellant and after about 20 minutes realized the scrubber fan was off. They turned it on and blew the roof half off killing three inside. Stay safe out there everyone.
an* 😈
Lol, like someone in youtube would know more than Josef Prusa himself. The dude invented the Prusa printers, I am sure that if he can invent this he knows more than enough, notice he even mentioned about working in a ventilated area and the fire risks of the dangerous chemical Acetone. Im very happy with my Original Prusa i3 mk3, its a beast so i don't have doubts about what he says.
Teresa Shinkansen yes but this is a warning to be wary and safe
if u want put inside a fan, search on internet for ATEX Fans. ATEX is all the thing can put in hazard place like a fan or a motor. bye/
@@teresashinkansen9402 lol, get your nose out of his arse. He may be smart, but does he know everything? Of course not. As if he's the smartest man on RUclips.
The amount of work that went into this video is insane!
PLA can be vapor smoothed; ive done it numerous times. The thing is you need a plastic/solvent combination that acts quite fast, so you can hit the surface without melting down the interior. And temperature plays a big role in this. It just so happens that acetone-ABS works fine around room temperature. Ethyl-acetate works quite fine for most PLAs, but you need to do it in a box around 50-60c; otherwise the vapor pressure of the stuff is too low, and you will get similar 'rubberization' problems as with plain acetone+PLA. Playing with heat and volatile chemicals may not be everyones cup of tea; but putting a water bath with possibly a thermostat heater in the bottom of your plastic box is quite safe. Just stay under the boiling point of whatever volatile substance you are working with; that goes for acetone as well.
Thank you for the suggestion. I've had a lot of PLAs lying around so feels like kind of a waste getting other filament materials just to try the acetone smoothing as of now. Will try them.
so for clarification, if I have a PLA model, say the size of a helmet, and have it on a stand in a box with a fan, with a layer of Acetone under the helmet (not touching the helmet) and then have that box in a hot water bath at 50 deg C, after 20 minutes the PLA should be smooth? and how much acetone do you think would be required for such a project?
@@stevoz748 no you need ethyl-acetate for PLA, not acetone; and its boiling point is more like 70C if I recall.
@eelcohoogendoorn8044 thanks for the clarification
The video is about acetone smoothing, so no, it cannot be vapor smoothed using methods in this video.
So this is kinda like anti-aliasing but for 3d-prints :)
Yeah, but it's not crappy.
@@squirrelrobotics lol hi
the first comment I check i see you xD
@@augiespear8804 Hello!
More like blur
Well yea, kinda
I appreciate the video, but feel like it's a shame that the hotbed underneath the smoothing station was not mentioned. I built almost an identical box, with a slightly different shaped clear PP container and was so confused when after a couple of hours my prints had not been smooth at all. Turns out, the acetone is actually being heated in this video by the standalone printer bed.
Most solvents don’t really evaporate at a significant level unless heated
the sun works, put it outside
Thank you, I was feeling really stupid at this point.
Making a part stronger would make sense since a smoother surface also means a surface with fewer stress crack initiation sites as increased smoothness reduces stress concentration sites. Although, given that, I'm not sure why the tensile strength would be reduced.
I totally agree with your analysis on crack initiation sites on the surface for Sharpy and adherance tests.
Concerning the tensile strength, this probably have something to do with the orientation of your print. For instance a specimen printed horizontally or vertically don't have the same tensile strength. I assume that printing horizontally (where layer are in the same direction as the force you apply) is much stronger when confronted to tensile stress. Therefore, the melted part might tend to loose the cohesion between layers which result in a lower tensile resilience.
@@dr.hawaske8488 it's actually the exact opposite of this. the tests in the video showed that layer adhesion was increased from vapor smoothing as it effectively fused the layers together which is why you cant really see the layer lines. this is also probably why the samples performed slightly better in the impact resistance, as better layer adhesion would probably have some effect in an impact. however, the parts had worse tensile strength because some of the acetone was likely still in the parts, and the actone itself would weaken the part, I mean it literally melted it which is why the parts were smooth. Hope this answered any questions you had.
2:36 Me and the bois at 9 pm
2:40 Me and the bois at 4 am
me the red one, almost dead but still going strong.
So ya bois inhale acetone ?😄
hahahaha
😂😂😂
I can see why your channel is so popular. Thank you.
fifteen second exposure to acetone in a double boiler (outside) works great too. Don't insert your hand into hot acetone vapor.
Kabooom!!!
Well there goes my weekend, my immediate thought was that I'd try this and insert my hand into the hot acetone vapor. I guess I'll have to just make do with ordinary water steam.
For about a year I was exposed to Acetone and Toluene vapours at work. Over that year I started to become very irritable and angry. My fume hood wasn't working properly, and so I continued to get major doses of this.
Please, be careful with Acetone. It's highly volatile and absorbs quickly. Wear gloves and work in very well ventilated areas. You do not want to experience the personality changes brought about by acetone poisoning.
There’s a seventh layer of hell for people that use unlabeled bar graphs
Apple approves.
They seem labelled to me
Big brain move: leave a customer abs order in the acetone chamber overnight and forget about it, come back in the next day to a flexi print
well if it was a Dildo it might still have use XD
pls be advised: it can build up an explosion with air: 2,5 Vol.-% up to 13 Vol.-%
In the layer-adhesion test, the better mechanical load capability is clearly due to the changed geometry of the radius. It got alot bigger and thus didn't function as a weak point anymore
I like how you explain diy setup for smoothing with an acetone by using old sheets, simple box... and expensive noctua fan to stir it up.
it makes sense, because cheaper fans usually use abs blades... that does not work for obvious reasons...
also, Noctua fans are made of glass reinforced PBT@@nobodygaming4248
Quite well packed video. Before I watched video, I thought that there's nothing to learn from it...but I was wrong..
This is similar to Case Hardening with metals. The tests point to that as well. The outer structure has been optimized while in inside remains relatively the same. Try tumbling them in media or a light shot peening and I’d be they get even marginally better.
From what i can see you add acetone on the bottom of the tank,put abs parts on some sort of platform,close down the tank and turn on the fan. You are using acetone vapour to smooth abs prints. Very clever!
I smoothed PLA topologies with dichloromethane. Worked pretty nicely, though not quite as good as ABS with acetone. For referece: Printed in REAL PLA silver and red.
Though I understand that DCM is not easily available.
Beware DCM gives cancer
@@CambridgeSuper8 I'm a chemist working in a lab, only using it with proper safety measures is a given. The carcinogenic properties for DCM are established in animals but not humans, meaning if it is indeed seriously carcinogenic in humans we would have known so for a long time.
@@Doping1234 i am a chemist in the lab as well! it is serious for human, it is being established in mammals! Banned in many labs unless no alternative solvents, normal gloves dont protect with DCM. Not available for the untrained people and very bad for the environment. This solvent and DMF should not be recommended for work outside a ventilated fumehood.
@@CambridgeSuper8 ofc it is for use in professional context alone. The fact that carcinogenity is likely alone is not particularly relevant because it is qualitative, if the effect size is so small that finding conclusive evidence is hard that is relevant in assessing its danger, too. Or would you equate ingesting alpha emitters with dcm?
Its funny to me how many precautions are given regarding acetone in handy work type videos. Yet it goes on the hands, feet and nails of millions of adults and children that paint their nails or use various types of nail extensions
Wow, you guy really took it to the next level!
It would be safer to design a fan where the motor is outside the box and the axle enters through a small hole, like how a convection oven is usually built. With the fan motor directly exposed to the vapours, there is an explosion risk if the motor fails, or if you unwittingly use a brushed motor.
Yeah but it is like a closed system and it needs to be closed or the acetone gets out. The fan needs to be inside the chamber and it cannot pull fresh air. So there is no good way to place the fan outside. An oven is not fully closed. It pulls fresh air and air can escape through the sides. You normally can feel it. There are closed ovens but they have fans that can resist the temperature but that is again the same as the acetone chamber and the fan is literally inside.
What about dimensional stability? Can you explore PVB more since it requires just IPA? How does part strength and flexibility compart to PLA, nylon, ASA, PETG, etc?
According to wikipedia ethylacetate and pyridine can be used to smooth PLA. In general, just take a solvent which is able to dissolve the plastic (there is always one, but be aware of the safety rules).
The only thing I know is that PLA is really soluble in organochlorides like dichloromethane or trichloromethane (Chloroform). They are even videos on RUclips of people using them to smooth PLA. But of course organochlorides are all pretty toxic and should be handled with coution although DCM is a little bit less toxic then the rest.
Dude is so rich he uses a Noctua fan for his print smoothing box
it logical since the cheaper fans use lower quality plastic,
which means their easier to get affected and damage by the vapor!
@@g60force wrong. mechanical stability is not chemical resistance.
@@David-cy5zu you've been misinformed
@g60force any fan made of ABS would kinda melt, so its more about the type of plastic than the quality of plastic
Thought I was the only one that noticed hahaha
Acetone smoothing actually does work for PETG also, it doesn't melt it as much but still does a great job of smoothing and polishing the outside.
Idea :print extra rough. Throw watery gypsum at it. Works for precise negatives from clay. Gypsum becomes more gooey and less watery over time, so that's for very freshly made gypsum water . Could make big prints look really nice n well, manual, for cheap. You can take sandpaper to it too.
I've done smoothing of PETG with Acetone and it works great. I think it's important to get the part in the smoothing box right away after printing though.
Why's that? I'm curious. I figured there would be no difference.
COOL video! I wasn't aware that the fan would help with this process, prior to watching this video. You've earned my subscription!
Thanks for the sub!
Great video! I bought some FiberSmooth PVB filament and I plan to use this method, except with isopropyl alcohol. PVB is supposed to print like PLA but smooth with isopropyl alcohol.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR
This is a great video. I make lots of huge 3D printable projects and a lot of the stuff covered in this video could make my life a lot easier. Will absolutly try some of this out on some of my future projects. Thanks for sharing, liked and subscribed
Every filament with an S (styrol) in the name can be solved or smoothed in acetone.
Josef Prusa, i like your ideas how to improve things, but.... Vapours, dust, heath and sparking are dangerous . I know quiet a lot of explosion enviroments as i work in such. I would move electronic parts outside of the container and drill a hole in a lid for rod an put on the fan blades or make it similar as magnetic pump for liquids.
That's illogical - the last thing you want is to be forcing air into the box, the acetone needs moving *around* the box. Use a smaller box, use as little liquid as possible, shouldn't be an issue anyway - brushless motors.
we even made a acetone 'baker' out of an discarded crockpot with a stand in it to put the things on.. a little acetone in the bottom, then the vapors would atomize and smooth.. did this couple years back.. everyone was asking us how we got the finish so smooth... too bad doesn't work on the new pla plus stuff..
I was wondering. Fan has a motor. Motor sparks sometimes. Sparks + acetone = boom!!
i just burned my house, ty for the video..
Should’ve done it outside?
I've worked with Acetone, and Paint thinner almost every day for 13 years in the advertising business. I'm as healthy as a horse. No health-related issue whatsoever. Of course, the place was well ventilated.
Is there any material for 3D printers, I can use inside an aquarium, that's food save?
PET, PET-G, HIPS, and nylon-6
I believe PLA is fine
PLA since it is basically protein so it is organic
@@bl4ckr4bbit And what about the colors and will it get softer over time when in contact with water?
@@littlejacob25 THIS only if you need highest possible standards.. since there's a difference between a room temperature 10cent goldfish and a 100dollar sweet or salt water tropical fish ;)
If i am not mistaken, many of theese fans use comutated brushed motor, a potential source of sparks. I am not sure whether it is safe tu use in flammable atmosphere. Otherwise i enjoy the video, thanks for the content of such a quality.
PC fans use brushless motors , and have done for many years. Depending on the plastic used in the fan, there may be some effect from the acetone vapour, but ignition risk is likely to be very low.
Next up, lets improve the acitone!
*prusa: so lets try some acid.
The 2k @ 60fps really makes this video pop. Wow!
I’ve been thinking of printing more in ABS just for this reason alone
Having a fan inside the box could be a fire risk. When a dc motor ins it can create sparks on the brushes. There is a motor rating in chemistry to prevent motor ignition of flammable chemicals
tutorial on how to make the smoothing box?
If you need that level of smoothing and detail though, you probably want to just use a resin printer.
I dunno. everyone I've heard talking about resin says that, while it looks amazing and it's great for miniatures and the like, it has absolutely no give, so if it's a functional part and you need smooth detail for that function, like a small gear that needs enough detail to let the teeth of other gears smoothly enter and exit, something that's been acetone smoothed will have a longer working life because it'll be able to deal with the stress for longer without breaking.
that all depends on a per-use-case item
I imagine it's forcing the imperfections to mould together making a tighter hold, the same way they treat glass on smartphones to make them stronger or like the old German glass that never breaks just without the heat.
Really nice video. Dont you fear your fan could cause an ignition of the vapors due to electric arcs in the dc motor? or do you use a brushless fan? i would like to build such a box but i am very uncomfortable with a dc motor and combustable vapor
I was wondering the same thing when I saw that.
Noctua fans use brushless motors
As beginner been looking for some advice. And now have even more questions. So: fan most of them are made of abs how long they last? Hi concentration vapours can ignite easily with electrostatic discharges which sometimes occurs on fast moving plastic parts, also even brushless motors can generate tiny sparks, heat, and magnetic field all of them can ignite vapours off different chemicals. Box how long it lasts for? And another I had a a lot of occasions to play with the strength tester. With numerous different materials and there is some behaviours tendency especially characteristic to plastics I never had situation that piece was weaker to pull force than twist or share. Are you sure that tested piece wasn't faulty?
Dipper you dig more things to learn you find.
Where can I find the CAD for those chess pieces?
How did you build that hot plate? any Ideas for a simple DIY?
good job bro. very comprehensive and informative video.
Thank you for such a detailed video man :)
I’m just getting started 3D printing. I’m looking at UV resin machines. Does this work on that type of material?
I need a perfectly smooth finish because I'm making molds out of a 3d printed dice.
you need a resin 3d printer for that task, not a filament one
Better than a bead blasting cabinet
Cool how about details on the vapor box you used in this video please?
We used a PP (Polypropylene) storage box from IKEA. It's mentioned in the article linked in description - there you can find out more information about chemical smoothing various materials.
Was the fan a noctua?
at 2:58 you have the heat bed plate, does it mean we should heat up the bottom of the box to get better results?
There's an article linked in the video description that talks about it ;)
"There is one more (and cheap) method how to make every model smooth evenly - and that is warming the acetone. But be aware that this method is dangerous and we cannot stress this more - if you decide to heat acetone, you are doing it at your own risk. Do it as far as possible from anything flamable, wear protective equipment (face shield, gloves etc.) and always check the box (stay in a distance and always watch it). Working in a safe environment is absolutely essential - we can’t stress that enough. If you are not sure about it, use the cold method or buy a professional smoothing station. Better safe than sorry!
Now, if you aren’t discouraged by our safety warnings, let’s see the list of recommended hardware. As we said, we’re going to heat up the acetone bath. Its fumes will increase in volume and if there would be a source of ignition in the sealed box, it could cause an explosion. Please, keep in mind that the box must not be perfectly sealed to prevent pressure build-up inside. We recommend using a light plastic plate with no locks (just lying on top of the box) and making a couple of tiny holes in the lid to help acetone fumes escape. Under no circumstances a box with rubber isolation and any type of locks should be used!"
blog.prusaprinters.org/improve-your-3d-prints-with-chemical-smoothing_36268/
Love this! Would this also work with Resin prints?
What's model equipment did you use for tensile and strength testing?? So cool!
Do you wash it immediately after? using PLA and will get isopropilic alcohol. How many hours should work? as you say it takes longer? thanks
Will is slowly dissolve the plastic container?
Will this method work for PETG?
Do you think asethone remains on the stuff? for example if I do it to the spoon is it healty to use it?
After proper cleaning it is. Smoothing is even recommended to reduce the surface area on which bacteria and fungi can grow. But be sure to use FDA compliant filament because most of the filament in the market isn't. There are some helpful articles out there how to print FDA compliant parts including lists of safe materials and how to smooth them out.
@@Nickrii Okay, thank you.
Are we going to see a video like this but more in depth for PVB?
Does the acetone warp the plastic container you put it in? I would be afraid it would eat through it. or at least warp it. Also does 10-15 minutes of acetone vapor cause deformation or do you have to keep it in a lot longer (ASA I'm talking about) ?
Very nice, I like. I very happy Kazakhstan use the 3d printers now.
PVB seems really neat. But just by quick search PVB seems to be, at least in the US, a unicorn. Wonder why this type isn't more widely used. It says that it has alot of print characteristics of PLA when printed but can be smoothed with IPA as you said
Hi, I'm curious to know if I intend to vapor smooth PVB (or any oter filament), is it better to align the seams, or to choose a random pattern ? Because I wonder if the rim created by the aligned seem will also be blended evenly as the rest (my intuition says no...)
2:47 about which one filament you talking ? I don't understand the name
PVB ;)
Here is an idea, use an air assist nozzle like commonly used on small lasers, but put the air pump in a container with acetone in... so the air it blows at the "welds" contains the vapor as it prints...
Do you see any risk in putting an electrical fan inside a box full of aceton vapours?
It is risky, indeed. We didn't have any trouble so far with Noctua fan inside our box but still, safety first. This process is only for people who can make enough safety peracutions. Those who are not sure enough should use a cold method or professional smoothing station mentioned in our article.
@@kopykat9993 Maybe if you mounted a motor outside the box and the fan blades inside, connecting them with a shaft? If only I knew of a way to quickly and cheaply manufacture plastic parts...
Kopykat99 those fans are all brushless by the way
Do you use fans with brushless motors since you are placing the fan inside a box full of alcohol or acetone fumes.
Z jakiego materiału pudło na suszarkę, żeby aceton nie rozpuścił?
Thank you for the information!
0:43 Whats that base and for what they used ?
Does anyone know where to get the body print at 00:12
Does this work for resin 3d printers?
Does smoothing change the permeability of the print? If so, it might be useful for metal casting.
It will but only for the outer surface properties
how do i find a fan that is acetone safe
I have problem, if i try smoothing ASA filamentum then surface will not change.
It just softens the entire printout :/ Can you help me?
will it work on metal 3d printed green parts?
Based on this video, smoothing also makes the prints look glossy and shiny. Is this the case for most fillaments?
for smoothing PVB, the IPA needs to be applied directly? or only de "fumes" ? didnt quite got it from the video
Both methods work, aplying it directly smooth is more and faster. -Mikolas
ok dumb question maybe but what are those magnetic things you used to set up that elevated platform?
Very informative video. I just concern Is there any ways I can make 3D print stuff food safe? Thanks
blog.prusaprinters.org/how-to-make-food-grade-3d-printed-models_40666/ :)
Attention, the fans mounted in a potentially explosive environment, and this is it, must comply in Italy with the Atex standards, if there should be a breakage of the bearings, short circuits deriving from the corrosion of the cables, sparks would arise and a fire would be triggered. Attention.
I gave up on this years ago as I never could get any ABS filament to work doing it.
You might have been printing with one of the ABS materials that we mentioned in the video. They print and warp a bit better, but cannot be significantly smoothed. (e.g. ABS-T)
- Mikolas
It might have not actually been ABS. I gave up on it because it is a pain in the ass.
@@Prusa3D I did a test and even the Hatchbox would not completely melt so after all of the brands I tried I then knew what the issue was and that they were not 100% ABS. To get 100% ABS the price would 1.5 to 2x in the USA or around 40-50 USD per kilo.
Nice sample size
Tnx a lot u are Print Savior! loks like i need some aceton to buy!
What if I use ABS, but for functional parts? with vapour smoothing screw up the clearances?
How well does PETG get smoothed with this vapor smoothing method?
You should show how to diy build the electronic one.
Must the fan blow towards the object? Or backwards like an exhaust fan ?
At the 44 second mark, what are the red slots in your box? are they just more vents? or do they actually act as supports for the shelf?
Yes and what are they made of? Not PLA or ABS?
I wouldn't put a fan in there with electrical current in a highly flammable container. Put the fan outside with a funnel into the chamber.
I got a crested gecko articulated print that is very scrappy, I need to know how to smooth it without getting rid of the bumps. And I don't know what to paint it with. Please help me.
Will this work with resin? I used to clean with acetone during the ipa shortage.
With regards to mechanical properties, on tensile the strength was lower, but how did the elongation compare?
After testing and much thought I must disagree with this method because: 1. If you use the wrong fan that has brushes the sparks could cause ignition. Also the fan just causes the acetone to evaporate. If you want to do this way then do Outdoors. for safety reasons such as fire risk. 2. If acetone would simply be kept contained in an enclosed container the vapor pressure alone will get the acetone fumes to maximum concentration but it will take 2 or more hours to smooth.
When we tested smoothing without the fan, the top of the model was barely smoothed at all while the bottom was already dissolved too much.
- Mikolas
@@Prusa3D I've had same results. Fan is absolutely necessary. Btw. the Ikea Samla box (used in the video) is really ideal for this application. It is PP and its lid is very loose and it easily flies of in case of combustion.
I seriously doubt you can find any computer fans that used brushed motors. Id be more concerned that the acetone would destroy the fan itself.