If I had a penny for every time someone told me that the hobby was dying. It is not dying. There is no need to worry. People are fascinated by scale models, always has been, for thousands of years. It is in our DNA. That fascination will never die. There you have it, it will never stop, there will always be "something".
I fully agree and that is essentially my stance in the video. Like I said, we had some bad news at the start of the year but it hasn't really changed anything in the grand scheme of things. We modellers are stubborn and even if all the manufacturers shut down tomorrow I think the hobby would still survive for decades afterwards. Thanks for watching 👍
Just started a 11ft x 4ft oo gauge for my son with all the bachmann thomas trains really enjoying building it even if it does hit my pocket but I know that I can do bits at a time.
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 Yep, good post. I can't see many newcomers coming into the hobby. It's all debatable but I'll tell you this, there's absolutely no way it's thriving...
Some years ago we had the same problems here in Germany too. The Austrian company "Roco" went bankrupt, the German brands "Märklin", "Kibri" and Vollmer. Today all this brands are still existing, but with new owner. Good luck for your hobby in UK. 👍
If anything that just goes to show that, even if certain companies go bankrupt, there's enough interest in the hobby for people to revive the brands. Similarly if in the UK Hornby went bankrupt, I imagine someone would buy the brand and keep producing models under that name because it's so well known - just like Triang did decades ago. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Thanks for reading my comment, Sir. I Guess our hobby is a little bit out of time.. The Xbox and Co has captured the youth. Therefore so many bankruptcy in GB and Germany / Austria. But some young people (Like you) are infected with the Modell railway virus. And those people will ensure that this hobby will never die. Big ❤️ To GB. 😉
@danielkaufmann15 Not really, companies have to adapt too. Young people are looking for different things. Looking at wargaming, there's massive potential for complementary offerings, for example.
@@danielkaufmann15 As someone from the internet generation who also dabbles in model railroading, I feel the German industry has slept way too long to modernize itself and adjust to contemporary demands and needs. The brands were (and to a degree still are) marketing themselves to older generations which also shows in their portfolio of products, younger people (not even kids, but legit younger adults) as customer group were not taken seriously or ignored for a long time, the cost for models has risen significantly due to increased digitalization and oftentimes enforced bloated functionality, starter segments were very much neglegted or non-existent etc.. While it does make sense to cater to older generations to a degree since they tend to be the ones with more disposable income for such an expensive hobby, solely relying on it blocks yourself off from new fresh blood entering the scene and ensuring longterm survivability. And I feel this is why a lot of brands and companies from the industry, small and big alike, have been struggling to stay afloat over the last 10-20 years - at least. The lucky ones found new owner, but many others disappeared altogether. Established companies were complacent for too long and lost customers to other industries. And while model railroading certainly isn't a hobby for the mainstream anymore as it used to be during the times of our fathers and grandfathers, it still is very much viable as a strong niche hobby. Just look at how much drones for example have been booming over the last years, combining interest for electronics with model building (in a broader sense). In recent years, some of the bigger names out there have been making a turn and been doing better again, but there's still a lot of work that need to be done to catch up with current times.
As someone who has tried to enter the model railway world post covid, the gate-keeping point you made is really key to the future of the hobby - and in my experience almost comes more from the retailers than the clubs - what in several cases amounted to sneering condesension and almost mockery I recieved as an outsider trying to get started and join in means my money and time has gone elsewhere. Yes, I know it happens in all specialist interests, and often these types of intricate, detailled hobbies and interests attract intensely passionate individuals who might not have the social skills to realise how their behaviours are recieved but I ended up walking away and starting to model R/C vehicles which has been much less intense. a more chilled outlook on life and remembering that first and foremost, it is about having some fun and relaxation, distracting from the day to day world. I still visit the local model railway shows but none of my time or money goes into the trade
I have to admit I've experienced that attitude from some retailers too - usually it's the smaller more local model shops rather than the big retailers (in my experience anyway) and then people wonder why the newcomers prefer to shop online instead. The last section on your comment though is pretty much the entire reason I started this channel. It's a bit of fun, it's meant to be enjoyed and everybody should be made to feel welcome, regardless of their skill level. Thanks for watching 😃
Which is why I think the best course of action for Model Railway Clubs is to show people it's much cheaper to be part of a club than it is to build your own layout. Everybody wins that way. Thanks for watching 👍
@@Wembley76 hmm. Here in Germany it depends on the features you're expecting. If you prefer a Loco with sound, digital interface, Kondensator and super scaled.. 🙄 400 - 500 Euros. But if you chose the same loco, without sound, without interface, without Kondensator.. Around 180 - 220 Euros. I beg your pardon, actually I don't know how to change the British pound to €. It changes on a dayli base. By the way.. The Brits doing a good job in Paris.. Respect 👍
If you look at European (and some North American stuff) our high fidelity modern models are cheaper. Brand new models are luxury items, but with a bit of patience and shopping around you grab some brand new bargains, such as Hornby Sentinel for £60 or Hornby Departmental Terrier for £77 at Rails of Sheffield. If you go second hand it becomes cheaper - going for older second hand models cheaper still. Also, if you're on a budget, modelling a smaller scene like a BLT or a small shunting yard reduces the amount of stock required to adequately operate it. I have a very small shunting puzzle, less than 5ft (without the fiddle yard). If I had anything bigger I would struggle to stock it, as I can only afford around £150 of loco/stock purchases per year. Adjusted for inflation, the cost of models has risen only slightly from 30 years ago while the fidelity has increased enormously. I think the bigger pressure is loss of consumer purchasing power due to stagnant wages and increased costs of living.
People have been saying “the hobby will die soon” for the last 100 years. Problem is that the manufacturers are pricing out us folks on a budget, meaning the companies still make big bucks but in doing so they push away many people who would otherwise be making models. It doesn’t help that many of the “model railway on a budget” series have started severely pushing the limits of the average person’s disposable income (looking at you, Hornby Magazine). I have no doubt that the hobby will outlast me, but I don’t know if I’ll last with the hobby (so to speak). Hopefully the bubble will burst or a new company will show up that will let people like me get back into the game.
Like I said in the video, I feel like there's a really big opportunity for Model Railway Clubs to bring in new members because it's cheaper to join them rather than build an entire layout yourself. But I agree, a lot of the budget projects either seem to be done on rather large budgets or assume you have lots of existing tools/resources to work from... sometimes both! Alternatively there are budget projects that are made for absolutely nothing but everything looks like it's made from card, which is absolutely fine, but I think there is a middle ground where realistic results can be achieved on a tight budget and it's definitely something I'd love to explore one day. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyi still have my ews class 58 in box i bought new on a paper route money for £33 to adjust for inflation using a banks calculator it would be £58.58p in 2024 please tell me where i can get a full size NEW co-co locomotive for that price and i will agree that the hobby isn’t dying
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyoh and the whole club thing, my local club wont take on new members under the age of 50 so your telling me my choice is drive 3 hours each way or wait 14 years!!!!!! Absolutely delusional
Thanks! There's actually a large gap on the wall at the moment where something is away being fitted for a frame... hopefully we'll have it in position soon enough. Thanks for watching 😃
Which is what Hornby are trying to get away from by announcing products closer to their release dates. The problem is everyone is criticising them for not announcing much at the moment because they need time to get their new products through the pipeline... it's pretty much a carbon copy of what Bachmann went through a few years ago. Thanks for watching 👍
My personal thoughts is that the hobby isn't dying, but it's in a delicate place. Yes, there's more variety of engines and rolling stock than there ever has been before, and for those with masses of disposable income it's never been better, but the pricing of everything seems to have gone up massively, and I think that this is going to alienate people who want to get into the hobby. Take the generic Hornby trainset 0-6-0 (Class 08, Jinty, GWR Pannier, E2, whatever version you want). Only a few years ago, I went down to Hornby's shop in Margate and bought a brand new set of an engine with 3 wagons for about £50. Nowadays, the absolute cheapest price for an engine on the same chassis is £65, and a similar "cheap engine with 3 wagons pack" (albeit with an 0-4-0 instead of an 0-6-0) is now £120! It's a textbook definition of paying more for less. The hardcore hobbyist who only buys the expensive superdetail stuff doesn't notice this increase as much, but those of us on a budget and those looking to get into the hobby do. I think that the lack of accessible sets for newcomers to the hobby and the fact that pretty much every new engine has a price in triple digits is going to be what causes the "end" of the hobby. After all, it doesn't matter how many models are being announced if nobody can afford them.
This is why I think Model Railway Clubs should be bringing in new members under the basis that it's cheaper to join a club than it is to build your own layout. A lot of clubs have bigger layouts than what can be realistically built at home and they're always looking for people to help operate them. Then if you don't have the cost of building an entire layout, some of that can go towards saving up for your favourite loco and some rolling stock to run at the club. We don't all have to have huge collections or massive layouts and there are plenty of ways to engage in the hobby without having tons of cash. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyYou're definitely right, I have been in this hobby for quite a few years at this point and the first thing I did was join my local club when I realized that I didn't have enough room for any layout. I personally think that joining a club as a brand new is extremely useful and nearly a must do, I was clueless on everything and being able to get help by people who has been in this hobby for over 40 years was a real eye opener.
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy This is a good point, but think about it this way; Does someone who hasn't even bought their first model railway engine yet know about model railway clubs? Do they even have a local club? I know that I don't. It's hard to think about the perspective of an outsider when you've been so engrained in the hobby for years. Realistically, someone looking to get into model railways is going to look at a big manufacturer like Hornby, see the massive prices, and be subsequently scared away from the hobby because the "budget" options are nearing to breaking triple digits. There needs to be an accessible way for someone to start their own layout that doesn't cost a fortune. Without a way to bring new people in, things will stagnate. I've seen it in other hobbies I've partaken in, and I reckon that without someone to cater to the budget market, the supply of new people coming in will dry up. It won't die outright, but I reckon that without change, it won't be in a good position after the next 5-10 years or so.
Which is why I think the clubs need to be doing more to reach out to newcomers and promote themselves. A lot of them seem to be very old fashioned in how they operate but perhaps by engaging with the newcomers into the hobby, especially through social media, they can not only offer the skills people need to get started but a place where they can put them to use without breaking the bank.
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Perhaps. But it still doesn't solve the issue for the people who don't have a local model railway club. Regardless of how good one particular service is, at the end of the day it's the overall experience that matters. Good clubs, good shops, and good exhibitions are important for keeping people in the hobby, but the best way to get people in is with accessible budget options, like how the Hornby Railroad range used to be 5-10 years ago.
It seems there are still plenty of people able and willing to spend hundreds of pounds every month on shiny new locos and rolling stock. Not me, but I'm happy enough buying secondhand and not caring what anyone else thinks of my stuff. Plenty of alternative approaches to the hobby.
I honestly think those people are in the minority. Most people tend to have more modest collections but as you've discovered there are lots of ways to enjoy this hobby without needing tons of cash. Thanks for watching 😃
"Self-appointed Gatekeepers". You hit it on the head there. These kinds of people tend to infect many of our hobby clubs. I have personally encountered them everywhere - Re-enactment societies, gun clubs, fishing clubs .... Loftily trying to make up their own rules, swaggering around, smugly boasting about their own expensive equipment. Often dissuading beginners to the hobby with their attitudes.
Not just hobby but work too sadly. As someone who works in media/filming, I constantly come up against pseudo-filmmakers who say "you can do things like that". It's an attitude that really annoys me across the board and I'd say it's one of the driving factors behind my ethos for this channel to be a welcoming space everyone, regardless of skill level. Thanks for watching 😃
Brilliant to see such an honest, rational, reasonable, sensible and above all positive presentation. I find myself strongly agreeing with everything you have said in this video. What a breath of fresh air in contrast to those who seem obsessed with damaging the hobby by trying to put people off buying products. I have bought several items from my local model shop that had had negative RUclips reviews and have been pleased with all of them. I no longer take any notice of certain channels that always seem to have some terrible bad luck with their purchases, but only from certain manufacturers!
I'm glad the video has resonated with you so much and I do like to focus on the positive side of the hobby, even if just to try and offset those who tend to be more negative. Honestly I think there are very few models (if any) these days that aren't fit for purpose and while there are some I'd recommend more highly than others, generally I think we've reached a certain standard across the hobby. Like you I do find it interesting that some channels always seem to have the worst luck with the same manufacturers. Thanks for watching 😃
It is still alive and well in my garage. I am just about to start building layout number 6! This will be a round layout that will be portable and on dry days will take a place on a round table on my patio. It's going to be landscaped and the aim is to make everything lightweight to enable easy portability. I am looking forward to developing it with skills learned from various RUclips channels including yours of course. It will be set on 9mm ply, have a single track and a siding or two. Can't wait to get started later today when my local builders yard deliver the base ready for me to cut to shape, brace and away we go!
Amazing, that's absolutely fantastic to hear and it sounds like a really exciting project! Glad you've found the channel useful and best of luck with the build. Thanks for watching 😃
Couldn’t agree more with you about everything you’ve said, but in particular the level of harshness that’s been levelled at Hornby with their releases, you make such a good point about the general backlash they’ve had with releases. The ‘recovery’ phase is still ongoing and I do think they need to be cut more slack in this regard. Well said, and thoughtful, thank you!
The phrase "damned if they do, damned if they don't" comes to mind. I suspect those who are complaining now would complain the same amount had Hornby changed nothing. Thanks for watching 😃
Great stuff! Your content is excellent, but even if it wasn't I'd still subscribe due to your positive outlook on the hobby. The hobby is certainly changing, with new(ish) manufacturers maturing and expanding, the existing model shops expanding - and improving - to fill the space vacated by Hatton's, and the online "club" scene thriving. Hornby is struggling at the moment, but some of its recent releases show what it's capable of at its best.
Agreed and if the hobby stayed exactly the same I don't think that would be a good thing. That fact that it continues to evolve and develop shows to me that it's still got legs... it's when there's no more enthusiasm to adapt and keep going that things would start to take a turn and I don't think we're anywhere near that point. Thanks for watching 😃
As someone primarily buying from the second hand market I can tell you that it is alive and well and often overpriced, which rather demonstrates that thousands of people haven't abandoned the hobby and flooded the market
If people are still buying at today's prices, it does tend to suggest that they're very much still engaged in the hobby. And that's just those who buy the latest releases.. as you've demonstrated yourself, there is more than one way to take part in this hobby. Thanks for watching 😃
Every hobby seems to have the accusation leveled at them that they are dying out. I play wargames, a lot, and have been hearing that for decades. I used to go to model train expo's in the 70's and 80's and people were fearing the same back then. There are retailers out there looking out for us in both hobbies. There's also the 3D printing side of things. If we can print scenery for wargames the same is true for model trains and some of that scenery is superb. Please keep going with the trains, the attention to detail on the scenery is beautiful to see and seeing a train going around the track brings back happy memories Best wishes to you all
I once saw a letter that (I presume) was sent into a model railway magazine that dated back to the 40s that stated the hobby was dying out back then so it does seem to be a perpetual fear among some. 3D printing is well supported within the model railway community, from smaller one-man-band type operations to those like Modelu creating high detailed figured from scans of real people. Fantastic stuff and it's great to see how the hobby has evolved thanks to the advent of new technology. Thanks for watching 😃
I've actually done more model railway stuff in the last 6 months than in the previous 30 years! In the garden I've built myself a nice little shelf-line for my Mamod steam engine; behind me in the dining room I've vastly improved my son's table-top layout; in the living room all my bits of bespoke pointwork is coming along nicely; and right in front of me sprawled out all over my desk are bits of Hornby's live steam Rocket all being cleaned and restored!
N scale modeller here! I’ve actually seen more announcements for this scale since September than I have before. Kato, Revolution Trains, Graham Farish and even Tomix have been revealing new toolings and highly requested models both new and old and Revolution in particular are catering the most to modern British modellers with their soon to arrive Class 313/314, their Class 175 and 180 AND they have the Electrostar EMU and a OO scale Class 321 in the works, so this hobby is far from dying
Great to hear that there's lots going on in the N Gauge world too. I don't really pay it a huge amount of attention as it's been a while since I modelled in that scale but it's always nice to know that things are looking good across the board. Thanks for watching 😃
We had a similar scare over here a couple years ago when Trainfest (the largest model railroad show in the Midwest, featuring a large manufacturers booths section) ended. Since then, the National Model Railroad Association has stepped in and the show is being re-energized to start again next year. The local organizers are made up of people who have been involved in the show for several years as well as being involved in other nearby shows, including the Mad City Model Railroad Show in Madison. That and all the new announcements from manufacturers like Scale Trains, Rapido and others in the US, I am optimistic about the hobby.
Great to hear that the NMRA have stepped up to help save the show. I suspect that often it's not because shows are under-attended that they end up closing but because they've grown so much that at some point the original organisers just can't keep up anymore and have to step away. Thanks for watching 😃
Basically it's not dying but it is becoming more nicheey and rich man only type thing. Others going into 2nd hand and scratch building more etc. Plus 3D printing, I got a range (channel link) fir example and I think this is how things are going more. Paying £250-300 for a 4-6-2 when they used to be £100 or less yet still 'super detailed' is prohibitive, plus RTR quality control is iffy and a risk take which is off putting.
There's lots of ways to enjoy the hobby of course and it's not all about having the latest super detailed release or limited editions. Even then, some people may have one of that type of model but the rest of their collection is more modest. But equally, a few decades ago when I was a kid I don't remember model railways being cheap then either. While we have seen price increases lately, back then a loco was still something my parents had to save up for if I really wanted one for Christmas. Thanks for watching 😃
I was an avid customer of Hattons. I ordered from overseas, and made great use of their trunk service. One thing that I think we lost with Hattons was their ability to sell some of the more hard to come by models at fairly reasonable prices. For example, my Silver Jubilee condition Silver Link model (from the Hornby Silver Jubilee Collection, which I want to say was from like 2015) which I got on Hattons for under 120 pounds will now run you over 200 at a lot of other places.
I think some of the other retailers have good deals too... TMC and Rails Of Sheffield both spring to mind. It's keeping an eye on them regularly so you're aware of what they have on sale at any given moment. Thanks for watching 😃
There are model train shows and railroad prototype modelers meets going on in the United States. I go to them with my dad and brother mostly in the Chicagoland area. I went to one with them last month and it was the St. Louis area railroad prototype modelers meet in Collensville Illinois. It was in an big convention center and half was for the modelers with their displays and the other half for the sellers and the companies who make the model trains. Two companies sold their items they made which was Tangent and Class One Modelworks. While the other companies just had displays of upcoming items to buy at the hobby / model train shops. I bought an Tangent HO Scale model of an North American style caboose done up in Burlington Northern with working lights with an magnetic wand to operate the lights and from Class One an North American style double stack container car that was built for intermodal containers that have heavier loads than the standard double stack cars that could handle. Trailer Train company had an fleet of them custom built and they used custom made trucks imported from Germany and use leaf springs instead of coil springs. There are still some on the rails in the United States and Canada and some even was rebuilt and repainted.
Yep there are plenty of model railway shows (big and small) happening here in the UK. The reality is one of the shows decided they weren't going to continue in their current format and as a result 3 new shows have sprung up to fill the gap. Definitely doesn't sound like a hobby that's dying to me. Thanks for watching 😃
Hattons “trunk” service was invaluable to me as an overseas customer. Since the “coof” postage costs have gone beserk. So being able to accumulate items and post them in a bundle kept the postage down. Now as soon as a pre-order of even a single item such as a wagon arrives it’s posted off to me. Postage almost matches the item purchased sometimes 🤷♂️ My latest pre-order was sent to me and blew up my bank account as I had no warning of its arrival and posting to me. A heads up used to be sent but times are changing I suppose 😂
I believe some of the other retailers are looking into starting a similar service to the Hattons Trunks. I didn't want to mention it in the video as I don't know a huge amount and didn't want to get the details wrong... but keep an eye out as I'm sure they'll want everyone to know when it does eventually break cover. Thanks for watching 😃
I'm much the same. I've not bought anything from the UK since Hattons closed. I *have* been buying stuff from Japan, from a store that will hold preorders and ship them on a monthly basis. That, and a more varied inventory, helps massively with the shipping costs.
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Thanks for the video. With all the crap going on in the UK at the moment I was worried that another English pastime had suffered 🤦♂️ I live in Australia and watch in disbelief how it is there. Keep doing your great videos 😉
Sort of like the quote attributed to Mark Twain..."the reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated." While the hobby may morph here and there, manufacturers reevaluate their priorities or even take a break now and then, I'm pretty sure it'll be here for some time to come. Especially if there's money to be made. Most of the products you've reviewed here are strikingly attractive and/or technologically amazing. It doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon!
Yeah for all the noise and complaints we've heard from some corners, there really doesn't seem to be any sign of things slowing down in a meaningful or long lasting way. Thanks for watching 😃
Well I’m back to the hobby after a 35 year break, building a tt:120 layout, I’ve spent £225 on an easterner set, £175 on track, purchased a few peco building kits and have a large layout built in my spare room, while £400 appears expensive, in the grand scheme of things and it will cost a little bit more for scenery etc, with inflation it’s really not much more than my parents paid in the 1970’s. I’m happy to be back and it’s such an enjoyable hobby which I’ll be introducing to my grandson when he is old enough. Definitely need a reasonably priced starter set for the scale, perhaps something less detailed too for small clumsy hands.
Great to hear that you've returned to the hobby - it does seem like TT:120 has drawn a lot of people back in. The good news is that the most expensive part is behind you, scenics don't tend to be as costly in my experience and the materials tend to go further than you think. Best of luck with it and thanks for watching 😃
I agree with you, It was a shock at the beginning of the year, but that's it, it hasn't stopped any models from coming out, and yeah it has made the model railway community stronger 😀
Yeah in the grand scheme of things, nothing has really changed and apocalypse of the hobby that many were predicting hasn't come to pass... it's almost like some people over-reacted 😅 Thanks for watching 👍
I would love to see Hornby make a build&paint it yourself kit, that gives you a running DC loco by the end of it. I don't have much disposable income to get more than a starter set, but thoroughly enjoy the building/painting/learning/playing elements of tabletop wargaming. There is a huge opportunity for cross pollination with wargaming that would bring in a lot of youth, in my opinion. Instead of a railroad range for TT120 they could try the build it yourself route. They could lean into social media with painting tutorials, and community interaction etc. it would also allow Hornby to push sales of their Humbrol paint range. Rant over Great video as always. 😆
It would be cool to see a kit of that nature but I suspect it wouldn't be profitable in the long run. You do tend to see this sort of thing more in the larger garden scales though. I don't think there will ever be a Railroad range for TT:120 either since the 00 Railroad range is all built on Hornby's older, less detailed toolings from decades ago - which they don't have for TT being a new scale. Thanks for watching 😃
This year is actually the first time I properly got back into the hobby after 15 years, I've made a good start on my OO gauge shunting layout and have been to model railway shows over the months but nothing new really interests me simply because of how expensive it is, even preowned stuff is getting expensive. The hobby won't die, not unless every single person who does the hobby drops out from it.
Awesome, that's great to hear! Keep an eye on Rails Of Sheffield and TMC, they've both had some really amazing deals on locos and rolling stock lately but you do need to check in with them regularly. Thanks for watching 😃
100% agree with your sentiments here. The doomsayers seem to quantify the success of the industry on one company, Hornby. The fact that in the last 5 or so years we've had Accurascale come into mix and sell out of nearly everything they produce. Rapido and Dapol stepping up massively with their production of locos and rolling stock, as well as other manufacturers. These people seemed to have ignored all of that. Not too mention other modelling companies that focus on the scenics bringing out new products. If anything, the hobby has never been better. It's far better now than it was when I was growing up in the 90's.
Exactly, if the hobby was really in that dire of a position then we simply wouldn't be seeing new companies join the party or existing companies like Bachmann launching whole brand new ranges. They are here to make money after all and it if it wasn't profitable in some way they just simply wouldn't do it. I agree that we've never had it better. People complain about the prices in comparison to older models but personally I'd rather have the detail and the running capabilities of today's models. Thanks for watching 😃
Great to revisit this subject. The hobby is evolving, some people are frightened by change and so go on negative rants, it’s same in many other hobbies. It’s also important to understand that social media doesn’t represent the hobby, just a part of it, the ‘commentators’ are irrelevant it’s the makers, the creators and the enthusiasts that make the hobby. 👍
I don't think we can completely ignore social media though at the "commentators" are often just normal people who are also the makers/creators/enthusiasts too. That's the great thing about social media is that is gives everyone a voice... that bad thing with social media is that it gives everyone a voice 😅 Obviously those with the negative experiences tend to shout loudest but disregarding them entirely is not the way to go. Instead I think we should exercise caution and more healthy moderation when possible. Thanks for watching 👍
Was 100% the right call from the Warley club. When was a kid we travelled from Suffolk with a huge Blue Grey layout to attend but when we turned up turns out it wasn't so huge, the exhibition was a behemoth of an exhibition. Well as got older I moved a lot lot closer so attended every year and my old Dad would make the trip from Suffolk. It just got to the point it wasn't worth it anymore. With all due respect to them their quality went downhill massively. Thanks for reading :p
I visited last year for the first time and my overall reaction was that it was too big. Luckily I was going to see specific layouts and manufacturers otherwise it would have been impossible to know where to start. I can't speak to the quality having only visited once but I do feel like this new Statfold Barn show is a fresh new start and I wish the team all the success in the world with it. Thanks for watching 😃
It isn't dying its still getting more popular and the scale behind you does seem to be a popular one for those entering the hobby or those who are getting back into it. I have been tempted by TT:120 but being a GWR western region fan mostly I am waiting till the GWR items to come out.
For all the hate TT:120 gets it's done wonders for bringing new people into the hobby. What I suspect irks some people is that those newcomers aren't often necessarily concerned with doing things the "proper" way. Thanks for watching 😃
One thing I’d like to see from the TT120 range is a smaller starter set. Theoretically the smaller scale would allow my son to be able to have a layout in his bedroom where 00 wouldn’t fit and he’d be dead keen to get into modelling as a 9-year-old, however the buy-in at ~£200 is just too high for now.
I suspect we will see one in the future, perhaps even next year, either with the J50 once that's been released or with the Class 08. Thanks for watching 😃
I think it’s worth mentioning that some manufacturers are consistently making their models ‘limited edition’, with only 500 units or so being made. All this does in the long term is harm the consumer as it keeps prices higher initially AND maintains higher second hand costs too. I want to get a Class 221 in XC livery for my daughter as she won’t shut up about it, but they’re as rare as hens teeth and for a reasonable example, you’re looking at £350+ second hand.
Having spoken to many of the manufacturers most of them make smaller batches these days (regardless of whether they're limited editions or not) simply because that's what the market can sustain. Several manufacturers business model is to make enough to cover pre-orders to avoid having extra costs/surplus stock. Often though if a model is very popular we see it make a return further down the line. The Stirling Single is a good example of this: Secondhand prices went crazy so Rapido announced a new run of them and only raised the price by £50 - which is pretty impressive considering the extra work that has gone into this updated model (not to mention inflation too). That said, there are lots of locomotives available out there at lower prices but those looking for bargains have to be less choosy in that instance. If you want a very specific model that is highly sought after... well the reason the price is high is because everyone wants one. Thanks for watching 👍
Over here in the US, I've noticed a tick up in Narrow Gauge modeling. mainly due to digital media, such as Railroads: Online, and the ongoing development of Century Of Steam. However...that's not to say we're running into issues....notably...Tofu dregs overseas, national debt, inflation, and in general competition from the digital market. An example is the Big Boy...a manufacture makes 4014 and maybe one or two other locomotives in the 4000 class, and you MAYBE get ONE, however, I buy/download one Big Boy digitally, and I have the entire class and don't have to worry as much about storage.
There's definitely been an increase of narrow gauge modelling in the UK too now that 009 is supported quite well with a wide range of RTR products. I do feel one of the big advantages of narrow gauge is that you can fit more into the available space giving the sense of a much larger or more expansive railway. Thanks for watching 😃
I feel that the hobby has never been threatened with an end at all. Some channels used it as clickbait to drive channel views. However, I do feel that the huge price hype with Bachmann and Hornby will ultimately drive most into an increasingly more vibrant second-hand market. Hornby just announced 12.5% price increase against a 2% inflation rate. Apparently Bachmann selling the highest-priced 08 around. All that said yes youngsters and other adults will enter this great hobby, but not by purchasing new models. That will become the preserve of a few who can afford to do so. I feel that manufacturers must pay attention to alienating the future clients that in time they will come to rely upon. cheers Paul
To be honest I felt that most of the RUclipsrs were pretty restrained. From what I saw most took the opinion that it was sad but not the end of everything. Meanwhile there are groups of diehard modellers who often whip themselves up into a frenzy and this was the topic of the moment. As I've said in response to other comments, yes the prices are going up in some places and some models, like the new 08, do command a big price tag if you want all the new special features. But equally there are budget options on the market. The Dapol Hawthorn & Leslie springs to mind and Oxford Rail's upcoming J26 are both very keenly priced despite being highly detailed models. Thanks for watching 😃
Great update on the earlier video, I fully agree with your viewpoint. Your channel is doing wonders to help the hobby which I am sure is in a better place than some armchair-experts might say.
Glad to hear I'm not alone with my thinking! I have to admit I really don't understand why there is so much negativity in a hobby that is meant to be about pure enjoyment. Thanks for watching 🤩
Another point is that those of us born in the 60's and 70's that had to stop due to jobs, familes etc. Now I have more disposable income. I'm actually down to the choices between Lenz and Digitrax (Brit that lives in US) The deciding factor is not so much the money but the availability of components. Best sound decoders to retrofit older Hornby and Triang stock, which automation system to use, etc etc. But point is I have bigger money to spend now than I did as a 15 yo.
I think this is partly where the problem lies is that the hobby covers a range of people at different stages of life with different budgets to spend. In some ways that's a good thing, it shows the hobby has a wide reach. But it does mean that the manufacturers, when given a choice, will develop products for people like yourself who have more money to play with and are willing to spend it to get what you want. Thanks for watching 😃
For me these events signalled a big change in the hobby. The dreaded pre order syndrome fully took over and manufacturers making sufficient numbers of products stopped which only panders to the 'collectors' take over. That said there are still good things going on. It's worth pointing out your own significant achievement here! You have 30k+ subscribers and on this video 30k+ views, that's the highest engagement/subscription count I've ever seen. Well done 👍
To be honest I think we reached that point a long time ago. Having spoken directly with many of the manufacturers though I fully understand why that has to be the case these, especially for the newer entrants to the hobby. It's also important not to judge the entire channel on the success of one video... my ego's already big enough 😅 Videos like these do tend to touch a nerve and bring people out of the woodwork though. Thanks for watching 👍
I think Hornby had some serious QC problems with the TT 120 which quite possibly dented their profits. Hopefully things are getting better and they get it all sorted. I know 4 out of my 6 locos have had to be sent back, stupid things that should never have been allowed. Rear couplings falling off my 08, drive shafts falling out of my class 50, and stupid other niggling problems. With a bit bit of luck it onwards from here on.
I can't say I've had any issues with the TT models myself and while I don't want to dismiss your own experience, if it was a really widespread problem I would have thought people would have given up on the scale before it really got going. Thank for watching 👍
I definitely think some people blew the issue out of proportion 😂 personally I’m kinda neutral on this though. While I don’t think the hobby is at its end, I don’t think it’s in the best place. Personally Hattons and other retailers closing was a reminder that we need to support our retailers to keep them in business, not only because they are a great place to buy model railway items, but also because people have jobs at them and personally I think more people are likely to get started with model railways if they see them in person. In terms of Warley I think that it is sad to see the show go, and it is a little worrying that there weren’t enough younger volunteers interested in helping to keep it going. I find some clubs are quite strict about accuracy and younger people joining them, and I can’t help but feel that this is an issue for the hobby, as people who are young now will eventually be the “elders” in our hobby, if you get what I’m saying. I also think one of the biggest issues is not having enough budget models. While Hornby have their Railroad range, no other manufactures really have budget options available, and even most of the Hornby railroad stuff is getting quite pricy (Ie: their upcoming re-release of Tornado is going to cost the same as a Dapol Manor despite the Dapol Manor being much higher spec). I can’t help but feel that a lot of manufacturers could release budget models but don’t, as Hornby seem to have a habit of putting their older models in their main range, Bachmann have some old toolings in their range that could and should be sold as budget models, and it would be nice to see some other manufactures being out more budget options! I’m not at all against extremely accurate top of the line models, but I think it needs to be considered that lots of people are on tighter budgets, and lots of slightly older versions of models (ie: Bachmann Class 37, Hornby Black Five, Bachmann Class 47, Bachmann V2, Hornby 9F) are still good, just less detailed than their newer counterparts, but would make good models for being between the Hornby Railroad Range and top of the line models, and the manufactures still have these toolings but they aren’t being used. This is all just my opinion of course, but I feel that it is important to get as many people involved in the hobby as possible, and I feel like this would be a great way of achieving that goal! I also totally agree with what you said about Hornby! Hornby are far from my favourite manufacturer, as I feel their quality, treatment of retailers, customers and manufacturers has left a bit to be desired, however they are improving and I’m glad to see that TT has been relatively successful!!
I don’t think it’s should be purely down to us to keep a retailer open. If the main reason for Hattons closing was a lack of customers (which may or may not be the case) then those customers were going to other retailers and it’s on Hattons to figure out why. Warley isn't really an issue in my opinion. Better equipped companies have stepped up in to take over the NEC show while the current Warley members have setup a more manageable show with it’s own USP. It seems like the best course of action all round. Other manufacturers don’t have a large back catalog of old tooling like Hornby do. The closest might be Bachmann but I suspect they would have to drop some of their other ranges to be able to accommodate it. In my opinion Bachmann consider themselves more a premium brand. But I think we forget that using an old tooling doesn’t automatically make the production of those models cheap. There are lots of factors to consider across the board. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy yes there are other factors that played into Hattons for sure, I’m saying it was more of a message to retailers/customers in general. Warley closing wasn’t a HUGE loss, what I feel the bigger issue is the lack of younger members willing to step up. I know other manufacturers don’t have massive back catalogs like Hornby and Bachmann, but both those companies sometimes release older models (Bachmann have the B1, Ivatt 2 Tank, V1/V3 to name a few, Hornby have the 4F, 2P and Pug), which are all quite dated and yet are still sold for high prices. The other thing to consider is that the tooling costs for these would be long covered, so now the manufacturer just needs to keep reproducing them, which is much cheaper than tooling up a new model, especially if these older, more dated models are less complex to assemble as well. Let’s also not forget Bachmann used to have their junior range and they have their Thomas range, both of which aren’t exactly premium
Like you I don't really worry much about the future of the hobby but it is definitely changing. Most new modellers are not part of a club (including myself) preferring the RUclips life but this does mean that I attend exhibitions but don't actually help with them which is a widespread and increasing issue. I do worry about Hornby more though. With the exception of brief period around Covid there has been major losses on losses each year for a long time. How long can this go on for? The other aspect is if you compare the number of new tooling releases. Even across TT:120 and 00 combined this lags behind new and established players such as Bachmann combined with EFE and Accurascale / Rapido. This to me suggests they overstreched themselves in past few years but this may have a much longer impact in that the costs need recoup. They also need to make the most of their existing tooling suites better IMO. Coronation Scot coaches haven't been seen in Maroon / Dublo A3's and Merchant Navy's haven't been seen for a while. The Gresley LNER coaches are superb but haven't been released in several liveries for a long time pushing ebay prices to silly money as another example. They seem to be leaving a lot on the table. The poaching of diesel and electric locos left right and centre with minimal response also is a worry as these were previously considered market leading and solid models that could command a premium price. They now have to discount or not compete at all. I think their price point for what you get is slightly out compared to the market today especially as I believe Colletts models have said there's a 10% increase coming in September. Compare the RRP for a Class 80x series of around £500 to what IRM (Accurascale) are doing with the Class 22000 railcars for the same money as an example. Bearing in mind it's a niche product as well (compare mk2 prices for example as the IRM ones do command an understandable premium). The June annoucnement with the Grand Central HST issues to me shows that Hornby still have a heck of lot to learn, even with the new management and if they don't improve for me it suggests that Hornby could be in trouble without a change of direction. I can certainly see them live on as brand releasing basic train sets and being nearly entirely railroad only that can be sold on the high street (noting Mike Ashley's recent stake).
Interesting that you feel that Hornby aren't releasing many new toolings in comparison to other manufacturers when, in the last 18 months, they've released 7 different locos and 13 different types of rolling stock for TT:120 alone (with more due before the end of the year). Have any other manufacturer achieved that in a single scale in the same timeframe? Equally I fully understand why they haven't made more announcements regarding maroon Coronation coaches or more LNER teaks. As I said in the video their production capacity hasn't increased and their focus at the moment is on delivering what they have already announced rather than adding more to the pot. I'm sure in time we'll see some of these announced, most likely when they're closer to arrival. Hornby are making changes but it's not going to happen overnight. In the meantime we have to be patient while they go through this transition period, just like Bachmann did a few years ago. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy you what know fair point. I hadn't appreciated there was quite that many TT:120 releases but when you take a step back and look it is pretty extensive. To be fair even as I think a bit more there have been a good number of OO releases, just very few that have interested me hence why it's felt quite lacklustre for me compared to others. Those that have have often also had frustrating niggles that get 95% of the way there which has taken some of the shine off them as well. They can also make themselves an easy target with decisions like the Grand Central HST not having the distinctive buffers as they've gone for Railroad tooling rather than full fat alongside the somewhat dry presentation style. I think you touch on interesting point however around the production capacity not increasing. To me this is an odd move when trying to ramp up TT:120. Hornby are in the unique position of trying to maintain a full fat range and the basic range and now TT:120 it's only natural that the others see less releases going forward. It'll be interesting where the balance lies in the future. The capacity constraints have also been part of the reason they haven't been able to respond to the competition on in diesels as readily as they did with the class 91? I joined the hobby pretty much as Bachmann started the quarterly announcements so don't have that frame of reference but from what I have seen the new style of media presence hasn't given me a lot of confidence yet but I do wish them well nevertheless. I do hope 2026 will bring more than one new tooling announcement for OO though!
You know thinking about it, I believe I read somewhere that Hornby did say they were using a different factory for TT:120. I can't remember what the source was on that though so perhaps don't take that as gospel. And additionally I'm not trying to go back on my earlier comments, this has only just occurred to me now. But generally I was referring to the 00 gauge not having any additional capacity and Hornby needing to catch up on their backlog there. Personally I feel like Hornby have made a decision to not go after the diesels lately and focus on what their core market wants - which tends to be big express engines or cute quirky industrials. Similarly Bachmann have leaned into the diesel side of things with very few (if any) steam announcements in 00 lately. Meanwhile Accurascale also started out by focusing on the large diesel market (though they're now expanding) and Rapido have carved out a niche for themselves with lots of pretty Pre-Grouping locos. I think it's all about the manufacturers finding their own little corners to be honest.
Yep there's an entire video series here of the progress on the TT:120 layout: ruclips.net/p/PLrxCs5t2FkmwORIf4ZAU7jUUfK2fsx056 It's not finished yet but will be soon as it's appearing at an exhibition in September. Thanks for watching 😃
You're welcome, there should be new episodes throughout the rest of the Summer. And if you happen to be near Tunbridge Wells you can come see the finished layout in person at Spa Valley Railway on the 21st/22nd of September 😃
I have to agree with a fellow named Zed Lewis. It's not dying, but there's some model railway influencers who make me sick to my stomach when they give models shit for not having "1000% extra fine detail" and companies charging ridiculous amounts of money. There will be that one person that justify "It's a rich man's hobby". Cute. Because I and many other "smart" modellers out there are able to make layouts for less out of our own creative minds by utilizing material around us and not having to give into ridiculous prices for scenery (assuming we've got the tools and have been in the hobby for a while). I still dont understand Hornby TT:120, OO is your money maker. Simon Kohler also flat out lied to me about how they were treat their Brick and Mortar businesses a few years ago which also was a bit of a turnoff for me.
There does seem to be a trend with some people where deliberately creating a bad review or trashing a company has become the norm. Sadly negativity does get you more views/engagement/etc. Personally when I review locos I never shy away from the faults if I pick up on them, but I always try to approach them with a positive attitude. I definitely agree that there are lots of ways to enjoy the hobby even on a smaller budget. Sometimes a lack of money or space can end up producing some really creative results. TT:120 for Hornby is essentially the same as 009 is for Bachmann. It's a niche scale intended to appeal to a different type of audience, in this case newcomers to the hobby who aren't so fussed about creating a prototypical layout but still want a decent amount of detail for their money. On that front it's doing very well and has allowed Hornby to create a market where, in the UK, the are the biggest fish in the pond. Thanks for watching 😃
Hobby and leisure always gets hit hardest and first in a recessionary environment. Discretionary spending continues to fall as costs increase. I see more people shifting towards budget builds and more interest in the secondhand market.
Very true and I think there's a lot of opportunity to be had with building layouts on a budget. Let's not forget there will be a portion of modellers who have already completed their layouts and are happy with all the models they've got who won't necessarily need to spend anymore money, but will still be engaging in the hobby. Thanks for watching 😃
It is my view that as the model enthusiast demographic is naturally replaced with the tech savvy modeller, things are moving increasingly online. The days of having to go to a shop to get informed on a particular item there are channels such as this that do reviews etc and a purchase can be made online. While this is a shame for various reasons and the loss of large shows is not ideal I don’t think the hobby is in jeopardy.
I don't think that's limited to just model railways either. Lots of younger people are taking up new hobbies all the time but often they engage with it in the ways they're familiar using technology and social media. We haven't really seen a loss in large shows though - like I said in the video, one show ended and three more have replaced it so not a bad result at the end of the day. Thanks for watching 😃
Well thought out on what you are saying, somehow people prefer to be on a downer, instead of looking at the positives, this was one of the reasons I don't by newspapers and binned the TV 15 years ago too much doom and gloom.
Yes I've never understood why people take a hobby that's intended to be fun and only focus on the negatives. That's not to say we should ignore valid concerns... but at the same time if you're still able to play trains and have fun does it really matter? Thanks for watching 😃
Warley was pretty fair about their reasons for closure, but they do have enough entire youth section (that I’m in) and some younger adults as well, so they’re doing fine in that regard
Like I said in both videos, it seems odd that they would highlight the lack of (relatively) younger members willing to take over if that wasn't the case. With the announcement of the new Statfold Barn show, from an outside perspective it does give the impression that the enthusiasm to organise a show was there but the infrastructure to hand over the huge NEC event wasn't. I don't disagree with decision or the reasoning behind it, but I do feel it could have been worded better. Thanks for watching 👍
TT layout looks great behind and looking forward to the next episode in the build 👍. I can’t keep up with Hornbys TT releases this year wallets taking a bashing. I also went to Doncaster at the beginning of the year my first exhibition experience and it was rammed. Couldn’t move for people. Loads of great layouts and lots of young kids which was great to see.
Thanks, I'm slowly getting there with the TT layout but it's really starting to take shape. The next few episodes are really exciting! Yes a lot of exhibitions do seem to be nice and busy. I help out with the Spa Valley Railway's show and last year was pretty rammed their too. Thanks for watching 😃
The hobby is not "dying" bachmann Lionel dapol And many other are still in business, this to me is like when life like, ahm, and Tyco went out of business Even in the 1990s people were complaining about the hobby "dying"
Which was essentially the point of my original video. This follow up was to highlight what has changed in the months since to show how the hobby has adapted, changed and even grown despite starting the year on a bit of a bad note. Thanks for watching 👍
What would make the train shows better is to have every major city have at least three shows a year for more swapping train selling it would be more open to the public a new person to get involved finding the products that he needs to build train layout as a young child I had trouble finding the things I needed. Yes we have eBay but the shipping costs are high for the youngsters.
To be completely honest that's an unrealistic prospect. Who is going to organise and fund three shows a year in every major city? There are plenty of model railway shows around already, the key is not quantity but quality. As long as the current shows are well attended, which most are, then that implies that the hobby is doing well. Thanks for watching 👍
The 1990s and 2000s were the Golden Age of the hobby. With costs going up, the hobby will go back to what it was in the 1970s, a upper middle class hobby.
If high prices wee going to cause the end of the hobby then I think it would have happened a while ago and that isn't really the point of discussion here. As it seems to be a popular topic I'll probably do a dedicated video on it at some point but essentially while prices are going up there are still plenty of ways to enjoy the hobby in a more budget friendly way. Personally I think that's the route the clubs should go to entice new/younger members. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Interesting point. Clubs were never as much of a factor here in the US. There are some, but in dense populated areas of the Northeast US. Most people had to engage in the hobby without much involvement beyond family members. So, I think generational change is also a factor over hear.
Pete Waterman said that the hobby has been on it's last legs since he was a child. There only has to be a major retailer close and a major exhibition or two that's not going to happen again and the doom and gloom brigade are trumpeting the end of the hobby. To me there's a useful four letter word and the doom and gloom brigade are full of it. The hobby is far from dying and is just changing as it always has.
Yes there always seems to be someone saying the hobby is on the way out and it's survived so far. Like I said in the video, we modellers are a stubborn lot and we don't give up easily. Thanks for watching 😃
It's not really dying, as it is becoming less "Brick and Mortar" and more online order, as well as more people are wanting the highest detailed product and that stems from "demand" of said product making them more expensive in the process.
I think the hobby went online a long time ago to be honest. I've had this channel for over 5 years now and I was nowhere near the first on the scene. I do agree that modellers are wanting more and more detail and extra features on their models but that they're not willing to pay the price for them. I wouldn't want to be a manufacturer at all! Thanks for watching 😃
TMC has been a godsend for me the past few weeks. They've got plans to open their own Trunk service, and have been gracious enough to allow me to message their customer support team with any orders I place so that they can move them into the Trunk.
Yes I did know TMC were planning something although I didn't want to go into too many specifics as I wasn't sure what was public knowledge yet... so that's why I only briefly referenced it in the video. Great to hear that they're helping you though! Thanks for watching 😃
Amazing talk on the shape of things. I remember saying that this hobby won't die, not yet anyway, when the year started. I think as long as there is interest and someone to show people the way this hobby will be around for decades to come.
Agreed, I really can't see the hobby going away any time soon. Look at all the modellers working in obscure scales like S or 3mm. If they've managed to keep going all this time without much RTR support, then even if all the manufacturers and retailers imploded overnight the rest of us would still have plenty of resources to work from. Thanks for watching 🤩
Because I was talking specifically about the Warley show and the subsequent new shows that have popped up in it's place at the NEC. Thanks for watching 👍
Hornby have quietly been canceling some of their previously announced models, but yeah, it doesn't really matter what happens with the big companies anymore, all the electronic parts can be bought from china or japan and with 3d printers all the rest can be easily made at home.
In some ways it makes sense to cancel some products if there isn't much interest and they haven't sold well on pre-order. That'll open up the production slots for the stuff that is more popular and helps Hornby get back on track, though hardly ideal. Thanks for watching 😃
For any hobby to survive it needs to attract young people into it without that there are no customers for retailers or manufacturers. You can only join a model railway club if you have one in your area and be able to afford membership. Yes there are benefits of joining a club like been able to run your locomotives on a layout and will help with mental health well been. But today's young people are more technology minded and have grown up with the Internet unlike the previous generations who are likely to want a physical layout. Building a lay is costly so is buying rolling stock and locomotives it is much easier and cheaper to buy computer games with incomes limited especially if you are paying rent and bring up a family it is not possible to buy a £200 plus locomotive. No the hobby is not dying and is changing towards becoming a very niche hobby based on technology or if people want a physical layout they might buy estate collections. Hatton closed due to bad business decisions with little chance of economic turnaround. Hornby's quarterly statement was neither good or bad I find it interesting that Mike Ashley has shares in Hornby he usual buys shares in companies that he might have a chance in buying cheap from creditors then sell on for millions even if it's just the name.
Like I said in the video, a lot of the people I speak to at exhibitions these days are teenagers or families who have just started, or are looking to start their first layout. Where I live there are 3 towns nearby with 4 model railway clubs between them - I'm not suggesting that's the case everywhere in the country but with a bit of work you can find something. Even if you don't have a nearby club, most areas have exhibitions - you can go to one of those and chat to the layout operators, or even those running the exhibition, make friends and ask if they need any help at further shows. There are lots of different ways to get involved and joining a club is cheaper than building your own layout. I agree a lot of younger modellers and newcomers are turning online when it comes to engaging with the hobby (which is where I feel clubs are missing a trick) but building a layout also doesn't have to expensive. My first serious layout was made using not much more than secondhand track, an old shelf and some Metcalfe buildings. It won't win any awards but it was enough to get me started in the hobby. There seems to be this assumption that newcomers will immediately be faced with buying a £200 super detailed loco and a full rake of coaches, then have a huge layout... when in actual fact it's often a slower much more gradual process or starts with purchase of a set. At the end of the day, those who are genuinely interested and want to participate in the hobby will find a way to make it work for them. Thanks for watching 👍
It's not dying. A re-adjustment is needed. Prices are getting too high for younger audiences. Hattons website was a terrible example of how to do e-commerce so it's not surprising they didn't survive in this day and age.
I don't think price is really the issue here. If it was then the hobby would have already died out but instead it's still going strong. Personally I found the Hattons website fine - not the best but not the worse. I think loosing Hornby and Bachmann from their range was probably a bigger issue to be honest but I doubt we'll ever know the full story. Thanks for watching 👍
Everybody was dismayed at Hattons closing down but no-one thought about the reasons why The cost of manufacturing models and auxiliaries went through the roof and customers dropped off Hattons was a business that had to make some profit to stay viable so it closed as for Hornby their product control is non existence they turn out crap after crap and jack up their prices by 40---50% Its no wonder the customers have gotten tired of it This is only two examples
If that was the case then surely it would have been the same for all the major retailers, not just Hattons. We'll probably never know the full story but I can't imagine loosing both Hornby and Bachmann from their range can have helped. As for Hornby's quality control, I appreciate it's not always perfect (no company is) but some of their recent models have been outstanding. The 2MT, 9F and P2 all spring to mind. Thanks for watching 👍
People can get confused between 'dying' and 'adapting'. With recent companies like Modelu, Rapido, Accurascale etc. coming to the fore, older more established companies may fall away or even disappear altogether but the 'industry' continues, just in different hands. Eg. If Hornby collapsed and went bankrupt, we'd all be shocked and would talk about their history and the good things they achieved but would still be placing orders with their competitors and the hobby would continue. Personally, I believe the hobby is growing.
I fully agree. Letting the hobby evolve over time is a good thing, the worry would be if it started to stagnate, which we're definitely not seeing. Even if Hornby were to collapse, I bet the name would continue to live on in someway because the brand recognition is very valuable in the world of model railways - just like Triang did decades ago. Thanks for watching 😃
@ThatModelRailwayGuy Great video BTW. I think you and your fellow RUclips creators have become vital spokespersons and influencers who are helping to turn the hobby from an 'underground' hobby into a national and international past . Keep it up, thank you.
I'll be honest, I don't like the term "influencer" as I'm definitely not here to tell anyone how they should enjoy or participate in their hobby, nor am I here to try and sell things to anyone 😅 But I appreciate it's more of a catch all term these days and as long as people are enjoying and learning from the videos, that's the most important thing in my eyes.
Why are you lost with TT? It's just another option and one that seems to be pretty popular so far, especially with newcomers. Meanwhile N gauge still has a solid fanbase and is well supported by several manufacturers. I'm not sure what your point is here. Thanks for watching 👍
Of course it's changing. If anything it's good that the hobby continues to evolve and adapt... what would be worrying is if it starts to stagnate. But as you've already discovered there are multiple ways to enjoy this hobby without buying the latest super detailed models on release. Thanks for watching 😃
I've been thinking about making a huge layout w/ multiple gauges (Yes, I'm very ambitious lol).. I know to use HO/OO and OO9, but I was wondering whether I should use N scale or TT:120 for Miniature Gauge. What do you think?
I'd say TT:120 would be very large for a miniature railway.. although to be honest so would N Gauge. Ultimately it's up to you but if you've already gone down the 009 route perhaps you can make use of the common track gauge with N. Thanks for watching 👍
I had to quit the hobby because it's far too expensive these days. About 20 years ago, I had the late 90's Twin Train Freight, GWR Mixed Traffic and Inter City 225, back then it all cost around £300. Back then, you could actually have a decent amount of stuff to get going for a full baseboard layout.... I've considered making a multi inglenook shunting layout though. The hobby is always at the back of my mind.
That's a shame. I would argue that there are plenty of ways to enjoy the hobby on a lower budget though. Joining a club would actually be a lot cheaper than building your own layout in some instances, or like a say something smaller like an inglenook could be put together for not too much. Maybe check out some of my earlier videos about Pickwick Yard. I built that layout using secondhand track and a few Metcalfe kits on an old shelf a while it's not super detailed I was pretty happy with it. Thanks for watching 😃
Maybe take a look at the techniques finescale modellers use then as they tend to build everything from scratch themselves. It can take a lot longer but produces some fantastic results 👍
I love this hobby as does my son, yet with the proces it has become unreachable for those on a smaller buget, after 3 years of buying 2nd hand or unwanted bits we have a small working layout, perhaps they could reduce the costs as even Hornby are mostly made in china
The thing is making models in China doesn't necessarily mean cheap prices anymore. Hornby have their Railroad range for those on a tighter budget but even there we've seen necessary increases. That said I do believe it is possible to build a layout without breaking the bank. One of my earlier layouts Pickwick Yard was a good example of this as it was fairly simple but still looked decent (in my opinion at least!). Thanks for watching 😃
Bachmann also owns Liliput and Bachmann China which is under a name I can't remember, one releases mostly German epoch III and IV trains, The bad German Dictator era to the 1970s. the other, Chinese and German trains.
The Bachmann Group as an entity is owned by Kader which might be what you're thinking of. They have their own factory (factories?) which is why they're able to produce so many products. Thanks for watching 😃
Those who already own most of the rolling stock and most of other items they want will keep going, perhaps limiting their yearly purchase or slow it down. I never understood why somebody shops 10 locomotives or more per year anyways. But in a cost of living-crisis the hobby lacks rather beginners, so we will see consequences not now but in the years coming. There could be a decade or more with relatively few pensioners doing model railroading resulting in less grandchildren getting into contact with the hobby.
To be honest I think TT:120 has brought a huge amount of people (especially younger people) into the hobby. Most I've spoken to about it are those who haven't had a layout before for one reason or another. So there are still new people joining the hobby. Thanks for watching 😃
Here in Norway the hobby is struggling. Especially with recruting. It's much more expencive here as well, if you want to collect norwegian stock. You in the UK complain, but due to many more customers and larger badges of stock, I believe you have half the price we have.
Absolutely, for all the price increases we've had here in the UK recently, we're still quite a way off from the prices most of Europe pays - all while the detail and quality of our models continues to increase. Thanks for watching 😃
Hobby ain't dying, after all Companies like Evemodel wouldn't be constantly offering inexpensive products at an accelerating place, having launched several more US and European wagons and modestly priced american and European locos and from Model power, Piko and Rivarossi-Jouef Moulds. Their houses come from revamped old VERO and pola moulds.
The bigger point here is that the UK branch of the hobby that this channel is focused on is very isolated against the wider hobby worldwide. Even if the UK branch were to somehow die out completely, the greater hobby would probably barely notice. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy And this is the UK branch's problem with so many modelers and companies trying to make it some exclusive club, instead of adhering to the standards of the worldwide hobby. Hornby should have went HO, which is what lima and Rivarossi both tried to do for UK railways, however that would have prevented them from using The old Tri-ang moulds. Also If lima had held on to O instead of doing the bankrupcy producing Lima NOVA models in HO We'd have UK and continental O for not much more than HO. All of Lima's modern image stuff for the most part is all Lima moulds anyway.
The UK hobby scene didn't create 00 just to be different, it was born out of necessity at a time where motors were too big to fit into the substantially smaller bodies of UK prototypes. 00 has since grown to be the most popular scale over here (despite it's shortcomings) so trying to convert everyone back over to H0 would be a disaster and would do more damage to the hobby in the long term.
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Maerklin invented OO, in fact Fleischmann's locos from the early era were actually OO for the same reason but the wagons were mostly HO, except for the Donnerbuchsen coaches which were 1:80 scale.
More programming of what? More shows, more layouts? Most clubs have enough work trying to put on one show a year as it is. As someone mildly involved in the organisation of an exhibition I can tell you that a huge amount of work goes into putting these events on. Thanks for watching 👍
When I grew up we didn't have shows of train layouts we just had swap meets a different locations. National Guard Armory and a fire station Hall School gymnasiums but there are more of them to go to local city.
It's not a question of negativity but of demand and practicality. I think this video proves that I have a very positive outlook for the UK branch of the hobby in comparison to most people. But unless you are offering to both fund and organise all these events I can't see how or even why it would be worth increasing the number of events.
Ive been into this hobby since 1986. The problem os ...the "old guard" or ...the all of the generations prior to the Boomer generation are no more. Those guys were the great pioneers and really kept the hobby going. The boomers are really the last gen now to really remember these locomotives and the times these layouts represent and they're slowing down a bit. Sad but true
I find it's less about age and more about attitude. At shows I've met plenty of older modellers who are genuinely enthusiastic about helping others within the hobby. I've also met younger modellers who resist engagement and refuse to share "their secrets". Thanks for watching 😃
Amazing! Yeah I definitely agree that those two new pieces of technology are really changing the way model railways can be built. Thanks for watching 😃
Yes I suspect international customers have been the hardest hit by Hattons closure. But maybe check out The Model Centre. They do international shipping and I believe are working on a Trunk service similar to what Hattons used to have. Thanks for watching 😃
It will never end, look at the pioneers just after ww2 like the Rev Denny and Cyril Freezer. Most of the model railways had to be scratch built back then unless you wanted just a train set oval. A problem nowadays is not the loss of skill it is the lack of spare time and short attention time spans. Wealthier people should also note that the current financial problems have really hit middle as well as lower income housholds. As to oversesas manufacture are Chinese products really cheaper when retailed here than if British made nowadays. Finally I feel the keyboard and the screen are here to stay.
I remember seeing an letter from someone who had written into a modelling magazine back in the 1940s saying that the hobby was dying back then and wouldn't last until the end of the decade 😅 As for whether it's still cheaper to manufacturer models in China in comparison to the UK - categorically yes. Wages are increasing in China but they're still no where near the level that people would want paying over here. It's also skilled work too, skills that we don't have in general supply in this country so that will require training and not to mention that lack of infrastructure and equipment over here to start producing mass producing our models again. All this comes at a price which, some at least would have to be passed onto the customer. Why would the manufacturers take this route when the current system works. There are some exceptions, PECO, Dapol and Gaugemaster all spring to mind, but these generally tend to be smaller companies working on smaller batches for more simple models. The only high detailed models I know of that are produced in the UK are from 00 Works and they come at a high price indeed. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Well lets have a hundred British companies manufacturing for our hobby not just two majors what after all are just brand names. We are allowing the globalist world to flourish. British manufacturing is now less than 10% of our econmy.
In India this kind of hobby is very costly, I tried purchase cost us 14000rs one locomotive, it's like my half salary, So I purchased from US shop second hand with some more sets and it costed 12000rs, locomotive not working so I repaired, Actually cost is very high, PCB, motor, metal spares simple cost is very high, So I made custom, it takes so much time, companies need to reduce cost, increase sale so everyone can have enjoy, Only monopoly will kill this hobby
For as much as we moan in the UK about everything costing too much, we often forget that prices tend to be even higher around the world. As you've discovered, building everything yourself is a lot more cost effective but it takes more time. It does show though that there are multiple ways to enjoy the hobby and it's not all about how much money you spend. Thanks for watching 😃
Huh... this doesn't make any sense. In case you haven't noticed there are lots of model railway companies, many of which are doing very well with more springing up all the time.
Nice video, but it could be cheaper, or actually make the railroad sets cheaper (because 40 pounds for a 20 year old tooling is ridiculous) I’m sure they can make the prices cheaper for some of the older toolings like the rapido ones or lima ones
The cost of a new model is less determined by the age of the tooling these days and more to do with the assembly. While the Railroad locos are simpler models on that front, they do still require workers to make and assemble the various parts. With workers wages in China having risen, so then do the cost of the locos. Obviously this is an over simplification but generally that's a big reason why the cost of models has gone up across the board. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Even if they are paying workers in China more I’m sure they can release them for cheaper than 30 pounds for a 20 year old loco, but I’m happy they are being payed more
Wouldn't say dying but I watched a review of a class 25, stunning model but base price was £200 then £260 with DCC chip then over £300 for deluxe model, so mucg gets packed into a model these days
And the reason there's so much packed into models these days is because that's what modellers have been asking for. Alternatively, Dapol have just released their brand new Hawthorn Leslie for £106 while Oxford have their J26 (a larger tender engine) on the way for £110. While it's easy to focus on the higher end of the scale, there are models out there for lower price points too. Thanks for watching 😃
Awesome, great to hear you're finally getting involved with the hobby! Hopefully the basement will give you lots of space to work with. Best of luck and thanks for watching 😃
Which hobby stores are these? Because there's plenty of retailers out there still open and still selling models... an interestingly it tends to be the more expensive sound fitted deluxe versions which sell out first these days. Thanks for watching 👍
Hornby need to change what they are doing, at the moment the company is bleeding to death and will die in the medium tern if this is not resolved. However I am not sure if slowing up new model releases, TT and pushing up prices to Marklin / Trix levels while delivering models with at least one major failing is going to resolve this. But it is their business and I respect that.
But... they are changing what they're doing, that's what I was trying to highlight in the video. It won't all happen overnight though. While there has to be a transition period, hyper-fixating on every move Hornby make is more likely to jeopardise their plans than help. I say let them get on with it and in the meantime there's plenty of other manufacturers to get excited about. Thanks for watching 👍
Sorry you misunderstood, I was agreeing with you as they do need to change as the 2017 "Simon" strategy failed to turn the corner despite the early promise. However so far I am sceptical of what the new strategy is. But as I said it is their business and I respect that so happy to let them get on with it.
My bad! I have to do a lot of moderation on these sorts of videos and they all tend to blur a bit 😅 For the moment I think the strategy is simply to catch up their existing announcements before adding too much more to the list. Presumably when they do start making more major announcements in 00 it'll be much closer to the release date similar to how Bachmann now annouces/releases new models.
The hobby may be in decline due to the manufacturers pushing ever higher prices, but it'll survive whatever happens. Maybe with 3D printing advancements we might see more independent makers undercut the mainstream manufacturers. The hobby certainly won't die that's for sure.
We've seen lots of new entrants into the market recently such as Accurascale and Rapido who have been with a generally positive response. Personally I think 3D printing is better suited to companies such as Modelu rather than the locomotive manufacturers but the technology does have its uses. Thanks for watching 😃
The hobby appears to be dying because it is becoming extremely exclusive. I have bought three 0-8-0 USRA heavy switchers, two matching tenders, seven matching tank cars, and two and a half cabooses (the half one only has one truck and no wheels), all are parts of the Shell Oil company HO scale model train collectables that came out in the 80's-90's. In total I have spent less than $50 for all of that, but to buy just one 0-6-0 switcher engine with tender in HO that is powered would cost over $300. Bigger engines that can actually pull more than a few cars at a time range from $400-$700 each, and every unit of rolling stock is $30-$50. As more and more companies prioritize profits per sell over overall sells during the worst time in the global market of our time since the great depression, of course everyone is going to take a huge hit. And other scales don't offer any better options either. Hobbies in general have been all but wiped out in the age of $20 an hour isn't enough to survive on, even full time RUclipsrs have given up and gone back to working real jobs after struggling for years to make it. No, the hobby isn't dead, but it might as well be for 90% of the people that would love to participate but can't without going hungry. It's sickening to keep hearing how a $500 starter set is considered "affordable" when I make less than $25,000 a year. A hobby is alive and well when it is easily accessible to everyone.
I can't speak for the US or the rest of the world but here in the UK I don't think that is the case at all. While people love to have a moan about prices (and there are some expensive models around) there are also plenty of locomotives available for much more reasonable prices. Dapol have just released a little tank engine for £106 and Oxford Rail have a J26 coming that will be about £110... both of these in US dollars would be under $150. So while there is a premium side to the hobby that can be quite expensive, there are options out there for everyone. Thanks for watching 😃
Glad you enjoyed it. I do like to keep things positive on this channel and since there are a few out there who do like to highlight all the negatives, it's always good to remind people that this hobby is meant to be fun. Thanks for watching 😃
We haven't been told yet. I wouldn't consider any previous dates to still be valid as there would have been quite some disruption caused from one company closing down and another taking over the project. Rails Of Sheffield have said they will next update us production in complete and the models are in transit which is when they will start to transfer the previous Hattons orders over to their own system. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 😃
It's a fine line between creating too much stock and having it end up in bargain bins a few months later, or not creating enough stock and it ending up on eBay for twice the price. Predicting which way each model will go is not a job I'd want. Thanks for watching 👍
Surely there will never be a proper "flag in the ground" type moment for thr death of the hobby. Surely it would just slowly fade away and become more niche. Or will someone come round and confiscate all my models at the defined death day?????
There's a fleet of blacks vans with incinerators inside that will visit every person that has ever bought something model railway related 😅 Thanks for watching 👍
If I had a penny for every time someone told me that the hobby was dying. It is not dying. There is no need to worry. People are fascinated by scale models, always has been, for thousands of years. It is in our DNA. That fascination will never die. There you have it, it will never stop, there will always be "something".
I fully agree and that is essentially my stance in the video. Like I said, we had some bad news at the start of the year but it hasn't really changed anything in the grand scheme of things. We modellers are stubborn and even if all the manufacturers shut down tomorrow I think the hobby would still survive for decades afterwards. Thanks for watching 👍
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 I still plan to make a model railway in the near future
Just started a 11ft x 4ft oo gauge for my son with all the bachmann thomas trains really enjoying building it even if it does hit my pocket but I know that I can do bits at a time.
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 Yep, good post. I can't see many newcomers coming into the hobby. It's all debatable but I'll tell you this, there's absolutely no way it's thriving...
@@TheSps24 Its not dying either.
Some years ago we had the same problems here in Germany too.
The Austrian company "Roco" went bankrupt, the German brands "Märklin", "Kibri" and Vollmer.
Today all this brands are still existing, but with new owner.
Good luck for your hobby in UK. 👍
If anything that just goes to show that, even if certain companies go bankrupt, there's enough interest in the hobby for people to revive the brands. Similarly if in the UK Hornby went bankrupt, I imagine someone would buy the brand and keep producing models under that name because it's so well known - just like Triang did decades ago. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Thanks for reading my comment, Sir.
I Guess our hobby is a little bit out of time.. The Xbox and Co has captured the youth. Therefore so many bankruptcy in GB and Germany / Austria.
But some young people (Like you) are infected with the Modell railway virus.
And those people will ensure that this hobby will never die.
Big ❤️ To GB. 😉
@danielkaufmann15 Not really, companies have to adapt too. Young people are looking for different things. Looking at wargaming, there's massive potential for complementary offerings, for example.
@@danielkaufmann15 As someone from the internet generation who also dabbles in model railroading, I feel the German industry has slept way too long to modernize itself and adjust to contemporary demands and needs. The brands were (and to a degree still are) marketing themselves to older generations which also shows in their portfolio of products, younger people (not even kids, but legit younger adults) as customer group were not taken seriously or ignored for a long time, the cost for models has risen significantly due to increased digitalization and oftentimes enforced bloated functionality, starter segments were very much neglegted or non-existent etc.. While it does make sense to cater to older generations to a degree since they tend to be the ones with more disposable income for such an expensive hobby, solely relying on it blocks yourself off from new fresh blood entering the scene and ensuring longterm survivability. And I feel this is why a lot of brands and companies from the industry, small and big alike, have been struggling to stay afloat over the last 10-20 years - at least. The lucky ones found new owner, but many others disappeared altogether. Established companies were complacent for too long and lost customers to other industries. And while model railroading certainly isn't a hobby for the mainstream anymore as it used to be during the times of our fathers and grandfathers, it still is very much viable as a strong niche hobby. Just look at how much drones for example have been booming over the last years, combining interest for electronics with model building (in a broader sense). In recent years, some of the bigger names out there have been making a turn and been doing better again, but there's still a lot of work that need to be done to catch up with current times.
Being part of European trade myself, it's safe to say that the hobby is far from 'dead', even though on hobby fairs the heads are almost all grey.
As someone who has tried to enter the model railway world post covid, the gate-keeping point you made is really key to the future of the hobby - and in my experience almost comes more from the retailers than the clubs - what in several cases amounted to sneering condesension and almost mockery I recieved as an outsider trying to get started and join in means my money and time has gone elsewhere. Yes, I know it happens in all specialist interests, and often these types of intricate, detailled hobbies and interests attract intensely passionate individuals who might not have the social skills to realise how their behaviours are recieved but I ended up walking away and starting to model R/C vehicles which has been much less intense. a more chilled outlook on life and remembering that first and foremost, it is about having some fun and relaxation, distracting from the day to day world. I still visit the local model railway shows but none of my time or money goes into the trade
I have to admit I've experienced that attitude from some retailers too - usually it's the smaller more local model shops rather than the big retailers (in my experience anyway) and then people wonder why the newcomers prefer to shop online instead.
The last section on your comment though is pretty much the entire reason I started this channel. It's a bit of fun, it's meant to be enjoyed and everybody should be made to feel welcome, regardless of their skill level. Thanks for watching 😃
Because of the high prices it's becoming more of a niche market
Which is why I think the best course of action for Model Railway Clubs is to show people it's much cheaper to be part of a club than it is to build your own layout. Everybody wins that way. Thanks for watching 👍
Or like you, teach people (like me) to build inside a suitcase (which I have) which is a good cheap entry to the hobby.
@@Wembley76 hmm. Here in Germany it depends on the features you're expecting.
If you prefer a Loco with sound, digital interface, Kondensator and super scaled.. 🙄 400 - 500 Euros.
But if you chose the same loco, without sound, without interface, without Kondensator.. Around 180 - 220 Euros.
I beg your pardon, actually I don't know how to change the British pound to €.
It changes on a dayli base.
By the way.. The Brits doing a good job in Paris..
Respect 👍
Buy second hand.
If you look at European (and some North American stuff) our high fidelity modern models are cheaper. Brand new models are luxury items, but with a bit of patience and shopping around you grab some brand new bargains, such as Hornby Sentinel for £60 or Hornby Departmental Terrier for £77 at Rails of Sheffield.
If you go second hand it becomes cheaper - going for older second hand models cheaper still. Also, if you're on a budget, modelling a smaller scene like a BLT or a small shunting yard reduces the amount of stock required to adequately operate it. I have a very small shunting puzzle, less than 5ft (without the fiddle yard). If I had anything bigger I would struggle to stock it, as I can only afford around £150 of loco/stock purchases per year.
Adjusted for inflation, the cost of models has risen only slightly from 30 years ago while the fidelity has increased enormously. I think the bigger pressure is loss of consumer purchasing power due to stagnant wages and increased costs of living.
People have been saying “the hobby will die soon” for the last 100 years.
Problem is that the manufacturers are pricing out us folks on a budget, meaning the companies still make big bucks but in doing so they push away many people who would otherwise be making models. It doesn’t help that many of the “model railway on a budget” series have started severely pushing the limits of the average person’s disposable income (looking at you, Hornby Magazine). I have no doubt that the hobby will outlast me, but I don’t know if I’ll last with the hobby (so to speak). Hopefully the bubble will burst or a new company will show up that will let people like me get back into the game.
Like I said in the video, I feel like there's a really big opportunity for Model Railway Clubs to bring in new members because it's cheaper to join them rather than build an entire layout yourself.
But I agree, a lot of the budget projects either seem to be done on rather large budgets or assume you have lots of existing tools/resources to work from... sometimes both! Alternatively there are budget projects that are made for absolutely nothing but everything looks like it's made from card, which is absolutely fine, but I think there is a middle ground where realistic results can be achieved on a tight budget and it's definitely something I'd love to explore one day. Thanks for watching 😃
I rarely buy new models, they will retain some value but there's a market for any budget.
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyi still have my ews class 58 in box i bought new on a paper route money for £33 to adjust for inflation using a banks calculator it would be £58.58p in 2024 please tell me where i can get a full size NEW co-co locomotive for that price and i will agree that the hobby isn’t dying
Oh btw i bought it in 2003
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyoh and the whole club thing, my local club wont take on new members under the age of 50 so your telling me my choice is drive 3 hours each way or wait 14 years!!!!!! Absolutely delusional
I love the background with the TT 120 running around and the various train-related things on the wall!
Thanks! There's actually a large gap on the wall at the moment where something is away being fitted for a frame... hopefully we'll have it in position soon enough. Thanks for watching 😃
One problem with the hobby is that when you order anything sometimes it takes a year to get it, A lot of people are not going too order anything.
No company wants to stock anything anymore.
Which is what Hornby are trying to get away from by announcing products closer to their release dates. The problem is everyone is criticising them for not announcing much at the moment because they need time to get their new products through the pipeline... it's pretty much a carbon copy of what Bachmann went through a few years ago. Thanks for watching 👍
My personal thoughts is that the hobby isn't dying, but it's in a delicate place. Yes, there's more variety of engines and rolling stock than there ever has been before, and for those with masses of disposable income it's never been better, but the pricing of everything seems to have gone up massively, and I think that this is going to alienate people who want to get into the hobby.
Take the generic Hornby trainset 0-6-0 (Class 08, Jinty, GWR Pannier, E2, whatever version you want). Only a few years ago, I went down to Hornby's shop in Margate and bought a brand new set of an engine with 3 wagons for about £50. Nowadays, the absolute cheapest price for an engine on the same chassis is £65, and a similar "cheap engine with 3 wagons pack" (albeit with an 0-4-0 instead of an 0-6-0) is now £120! It's a textbook definition of paying more for less.
The hardcore hobbyist who only buys the expensive superdetail stuff doesn't notice this increase as much, but those of us on a budget and those looking to get into the hobby do. I think that the lack of accessible sets for newcomers to the hobby and the fact that pretty much every new engine has a price in triple digits is going to be what causes the "end" of the hobby. After all, it doesn't matter how many models are being announced if nobody can afford them.
This is why I think Model Railway Clubs should be bringing in new members under the basis that it's cheaper to join a club than it is to build your own layout.
A lot of clubs have bigger layouts than what can be realistically built at home and they're always looking for people to help operate them. Then if you don't have the cost of building an entire layout, some of that can go towards saving up for your favourite loco and some rolling stock to run at the club. We don't all have to have huge collections or massive layouts and there are plenty of ways to engage in the hobby without having tons of cash. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyYou're definitely right, I have been in this hobby for quite a few years at this point and the first thing I did was join my local club when I realized that I didn't have enough room for any layout.
I personally think that joining a club as a brand new is extremely useful and nearly a must do, I was clueless on everything and being able to get help by people who has been in this hobby for over 40 years was a real eye opener.
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy This is a good point, but think about it this way; Does someone who hasn't even bought their first model railway engine yet know about model railway clubs? Do they even have a local club? I know that I don't.
It's hard to think about the perspective of an outsider when you've been so engrained in the hobby for years. Realistically, someone looking to get into model railways is going to look at a big manufacturer like Hornby, see the massive prices, and be subsequently scared away from the hobby because the "budget" options are nearing to breaking triple digits.
There needs to be an accessible way for someone to start their own layout that doesn't cost a fortune. Without a way to bring new people in, things will stagnate. I've seen it in other hobbies I've partaken in, and I reckon that without someone to cater to the budget market, the supply of new people coming in will dry up. It won't die outright, but I reckon that without change, it won't be in a good position after the next 5-10 years or so.
Which is why I think the clubs need to be doing more to reach out to newcomers and promote themselves. A lot of them seem to be very old fashioned in how they operate but perhaps by engaging with the newcomers into the hobby, especially through social media, they can not only offer the skills people need to get started but a place where they can put them to use without breaking the bank.
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Perhaps. But it still doesn't solve the issue for the people who don't have a local model railway club. Regardless of how good one particular service is, at the end of the day it's the overall experience that matters. Good clubs, good shops, and good exhibitions are important for keeping people in the hobby, but the best way to get people in is with accessible budget options, like how the Hornby Railroad range used to be 5-10 years ago.
It seems there are still plenty of people able and willing to spend hundreds of pounds every month on shiny new locos and rolling stock. Not me, but I'm happy enough buying secondhand and not caring what anyone else thinks of my stuff. Plenty of alternative approaches to the hobby.
I honestly think those people are in the minority. Most people tend to have more modest collections but as you've discovered there are lots of ways to enjoy this hobby without needing tons of cash. Thanks for watching 😃
I like the sneak peak of the progress on the TT layout!
You ain't seen nothing yet! The majority of the progress is actually behind where I was sitting. Thanks for watching 😃
"Self-appointed Gatekeepers". You hit it on the head there. These kinds of people tend to infect many of our hobby clubs. I have personally encountered them everywhere - Re-enactment societies, gun clubs, fishing clubs .... Loftily trying to make up their own rules, swaggering around, smugly boasting about their own expensive equipment. Often dissuading beginners to the hobby with their attitudes.
Not just hobby but work too sadly. As someone who works in media/filming, I constantly come up against pseudo-filmmakers who say "you can do things like that". It's an attitude that really annoys me across the board and I'd say it's one of the driving factors behind my ethos for this channel to be a welcoming space everyone, regardless of skill level. Thanks for watching 😃
Brilliant to see such an honest, rational, reasonable, sensible and above all positive presentation. I find myself strongly agreeing with everything you have said in this video. What a breath of fresh air in contrast to those who seem obsessed with damaging the hobby by trying to put people off buying products. I have bought several items from my local model shop that had had negative RUclips reviews and have been pleased with all of them. I no longer take any notice of certain channels that always seem to have some terrible bad luck with their purchases, but only from certain manufacturers!
I'm glad the video has resonated with you so much and I do like to focus on the positive side of the hobby, even if just to try and offset those who tend to be more negative. Honestly I think there are very few models (if any) these days that aren't fit for purpose and while there are some I'd recommend more highly than others, generally I think we've reached a certain standard across the hobby. Like you I do find it interesting that some channels always seem to have the worst luck with the same manufacturers. Thanks for watching 😃
It is still alive and well in my garage. I am just about to start building layout number 6! This will be a round layout that will be portable and on dry days will take a place on a round table on my patio. It's going to be landscaped and the aim is to make everything lightweight to enable easy portability. I am looking forward to developing it with skills learned from various RUclips channels including yours of course. It will be set on 9mm ply, have a single track and a siding or two. Can't wait to get started later today when my local builders yard deliver the base ready for me to cut to shape, brace and away we go!
Amazing, that's absolutely fantastic to hear and it sounds like a really exciting project! Glad you've found the channel useful and best of luck with the build. Thanks for watching 😃
Couldn’t agree more with you about everything you’ve said, but in particular the level of harshness that’s been levelled at Hornby with their releases, you make such a good point about the general backlash they’ve had with releases. The ‘recovery’ phase is still ongoing and I do think they need to be cut more slack in this regard. Well said, and thoughtful, thank you!
The phrase "damned if they do, damned if they don't" comes to mind. I suspect those who are complaining now would complain the same amount had Hornby changed nothing. Thanks for watching 😃
Great stuff! Your content is excellent, but even if it wasn't I'd still subscribe due to your positive outlook on the hobby.
The hobby is certainly changing, with new(ish) manufacturers maturing and expanding, the existing model shops expanding - and improving - to fill the space vacated by Hatton's, and the online "club" scene thriving.
Hornby is struggling at the moment, but some of its recent releases show what it's capable of at its best.
Agreed and if the hobby stayed exactly the same I don't think that would be a good thing. That fact that it continues to evolve and develop shows to me that it's still got legs... it's when there's no more enthusiasm to adapt and keep going that things would start to take a turn and I don't think we're anywhere near that point. Thanks for watching 😃
As someone primarily buying from the second hand market I can tell you that it is alive and well and often overpriced, which rather demonstrates that thousands of people haven't abandoned the hobby and flooded the market
If people are still buying at today's prices, it does tend to suggest that they're very much still engaged in the hobby. And that's just those who buy the latest releases.. as you've demonstrated yourself, there is more than one way to take part in this hobby. Thanks for watching 😃
Every hobby seems to have the accusation leveled at them that they are dying out. I play wargames, a lot, and have been hearing that for decades. I used to go to model train expo's in the 70's and 80's and people were fearing the same back then.
There are retailers out there looking out for us in both hobbies. There's also the 3D printing side of things. If we can print scenery for wargames the same is true for model trains and some of that scenery is superb.
Please keep going with the trains, the attention to detail on the scenery is beautiful to see and seeing a train going around the track brings back happy memories
Best wishes to you all
I once saw a letter that (I presume) was sent into a model railway magazine that dated back to the 40s that stated the hobby was dying out back then so it does seem to be a perpetual fear among some.
3D printing is well supported within the model railway community, from smaller one-man-band type operations to those like Modelu creating high detailed figured from scans of real people. Fantastic stuff and it's great to see how the hobby has evolved thanks to the advent of new technology. Thanks for watching 😃
I've actually done more model railway stuff in the last 6 months than in the previous 30 years! In the garden I've built myself a nice little shelf-line for my Mamod steam engine; behind me in the dining room I've vastly improved my son's table-top layout; in the living room all my bits of bespoke pointwork is coming along nicely; and right in front of me sprawled out all over my desk are bits of Hornby's live steam Rocket all being cleaned and restored!
This is great to hear. Sounds like you've got plenty of projects there to keep you busy! Thanks for watching 😃
N scale modeller here! I’ve actually seen more announcements for this scale since September than I have before. Kato, Revolution Trains, Graham Farish and even Tomix have been revealing new toolings and highly requested models both new and old and Revolution in particular are catering the most to modern British modellers with their soon to arrive Class 313/314, their Class 175 and 180 AND they have the Electrostar EMU and a OO scale Class 321 in the works, so this hobby is far from dying
Great to hear that there's lots going on in the N Gauge world too. I don't really pay it a huge amount of attention as it's been a while since I modelled in that scale but it's always nice to know that things are looking good across the board. Thanks for watching 😃
We had a similar scare over here a couple years ago when Trainfest (the largest model railroad show in the Midwest, featuring a large manufacturers booths section) ended. Since then, the National Model Railroad Association has stepped in and the show is being re-energized to start again next year. The local organizers are made up of people who have been involved in the show for several years as well as being involved in other nearby shows, including the Mad City Model Railroad Show in Madison. That and all the new announcements from manufacturers like Scale Trains, Rapido and others in the US, I am optimistic about the hobby.
Great to hear that the NMRA have stepped up to help save the show. I suspect that often it's not because shows are under-attended that they end up closing but because they've grown so much that at some point the original organisers just can't keep up anymore and have to step away. Thanks for watching 😃
Basically it's not dying but it is becoming more nicheey and rich man only type thing. Others going into 2nd hand and scratch building more etc. Plus 3D printing, I got a range (channel link) fir example and I think this is how things are going more. Paying £250-300 for a 4-6-2 when they used to be £100 or less yet still 'super detailed' is prohibitive, plus RTR quality control is iffy and a risk take which is off putting.
There's lots of ways to enjoy the hobby of course and it's not all about having the latest super detailed release or limited editions. Even then, some people may have one of that type of model but the rest of their collection is more modest.
But equally, a few decades ago when I was a kid I don't remember model railways being cheap then either. While we have seen price increases lately, back then a loco was still something my parents had to save up for if I really wanted one for Christmas. Thanks for watching 😃
I was an avid customer of Hattons. I ordered from overseas, and made great use of their trunk service.
One thing that I think we lost with Hattons was their ability to sell some of the more hard to come by models at fairly reasonable prices. For example, my Silver Jubilee condition Silver Link model (from the Hornby Silver Jubilee Collection, which I want to say was from like 2015) which I got on Hattons for under 120 pounds will now run you over 200 at a lot of other places.
I think some of the other retailers have good deals too... TMC and Rails Of Sheffield both spring to mind. It's keeping an eye on them regularly so you're aware of what they have on sale at any given moment. Thanks for watching 😃
There are model train shows and railroad prototype modelers meets going on in the United States. I go to them with my dad and brother mostly in the Chicagoland area. I went to one with them last month and it was the St. Louis area railroad prototype modelers meet in Collensville Illinois. It was in an big convention center and half was for the modelers with their displays and the other half for the sellers and the companies who make the model trains. Two companies sold their items they made which was Tangent and Class One Modelworks. While the other companies just had displays of upcoming items to buy at the hobby / model train shops. I bought an Tangent HO Scale model of an North American style caboose done up in Burlington Northern with working lights with an magnetic wand to operate the lights and from Class One an North American style double stack container car that was built for intermodal containers that have heavier loads than the standard double stack cars that could handle. Trailer Train company had an fleet of them custom built and they used custom made trucks imported from Germany and use leaf springs instead of coil springs. There are still some on the rails in the United States and Canada and some even was rebuilt and repainted.
Yep there are plenty of model railway shows (big and small) happening here in the UK. The reality is one of the shows decided they weren't going to continue in their current format and as a result 3 new shows have sprung up to fill the gap. Definitely doesn't sound like a hobby that's dying to me. Thanks for watching 😃
Hattons “trunk” service was invaluable to me as an overseas customer.
Since the “coof” postage costs have gone beserk. So being able to accumulate items and post them in a bundle kept the postage down.
Now as soon as a pre-order of even a single item such as a wagon arrives it’s posted off to me. Postage almost matches the item purchased sometimes 🤷♂️
My latest pre-order was sent to me and blew up my bank account as I had no warning of its arrival and posting to me.
A heads up used to be sent but times are changing I suppose 😂
I believe some of the other retailers are looking into starting a similar service to the Hattons Trunks. I didn't want to mention it in the video as I don't know a huge amount and didn't want to get the details wrong... but keep an eye out as I'm sure they'll want everyone to know when it does eventually break cover. Thanks for watching 😃
I'm much the same. I've not bought anything from the UK since Hattons closed. I *have* been buying stuff from Japan, from a store that will hold preorders and ship them on a monthly basis. That, and a more varied inventory, helps massively with the shipping costs.
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Thanks for the video. With all the crap going on in the UK at the moment I was worried that another English pastime had suffered 🤦♂️
I live in Australia and watch in disbelief how it is there. Keep doing your great videos 😉
Sort of like the quote attributed to Mark Twain..."the reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated." While the hobby may morph here and there, manufacturers reevaluate their priorities or even take a break now and then, I'm pretty sure it'll be here for some time to come. Especially if there's money to be made. Most of the products you've reviewed here are strikingly attractive and/or technologically amazing. It doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon!
Yeah for all the noise and complaints we've heard from some corners, there really doesn't seem to be any sign of things slowing down in a meaningful or long lasting way. Thanks for watching 😃
Well I’m back to the hobby after a 35 year break, building a tt:120 layout, I’ve spent £225 on an easterner set, £175 on track, purchased a few peco building kits and have a large layout built in my spare room, while £400 appears expensive, in the grand scheme of things and it will cost a little bit more for scenery etc, with inflation it’s really not much more than my parents paid in the 1970’s.
I’m happy to be back and it’s such an enjoyable hobby which I’ll be introducing to my grandson when he is old enough.
Definitely need a reasonably priced starter set for the scale, perhaps something less detailed too for small clumsy hands.
Great to hear that you've returned to the hobby - it does seem like TT:120 has drawn a lot of people back in. The good news is that the most expensive part is behind you, scenics don't tend to be as costly in my experience and the materials tend to go further than you think. Best of luck with it and thanks for watching 😃
I agree with you, It was a shock at the beginning of the year, but that's it, it hasn't stopped any models from coming out, and yeah it has made the model railway community stronger 😀
Yeah in the grand scheme of things, nothing has really changed and apocalypse of the hobby that many were predicting hasn't come to pass... it's almost like some people over-reacted 😅 Thanks for watching 👍
I would love to see Hornby make a build&paint it yourself kit, that gives you a running DC loco by the end of it.
I don't have much disposable income to get more than a starter set, but thoroughly enjoy the building/painting/learning/playing elements of tabletop wargaming.
There is a huge opportunity for cross pollination with wargaming that would bring in a lot of youth, in my opinion.
Instead of a railroad range for TT120 they could try the build it yourself route. They could lean into social media with painting tutorials, and community interaction etc. it would also allow Hornby to push sales of their Humbrol paint range.
Rant over
Great video as always. 😆
It would be cool to see a kit of that nature but I suspect it wouldn't be profitable in the long run. You do tend to see this sort of thing more in the larger garden scales though.
I don't think there will ever be a Railroad range for TT:120 either since the 00 Railroad range is all built on Hornby's older, less detailed toolings from decades ago - which they don't have for TT being a new scale. Thanks for watching 😃
This year is actually the first time I properly got back into the hobby after 15 years, I've made a good start on my OO gauge shunting layout and have been to model railway shows over the months but nothing new really interests me simply because of how expensive it is, even preowned stuff is getting expensive. The hobby won't die, not unless every single person who does the hobby drops out from it.
Awesome, that's great to hear! Keep an eye on Rails Of Sheffield and TMC, they've both had some really amazing deals on locos and rolling stock lately but you do need to check in with them regularly. Thanks for watching 😃
100% agree with your sentiments here.
The doomsayers seem to quantify the success of the industry on one company, Hornby.
The fact that in the last 5 or so years we've had Accurascale come into mix and sell out of nearly everything they produce. Rapido and Dapol stepping up massively with their production of locos and rolling stock, as well as other manufacturers. These people seemed to have ignored all of that. Not too mention other modelling companies that focus on the scenics bringing out new products.
If anything, the hobby has never been better. It's far better now than it was when I was growing up in the 90's.
Exactly, if the hobby was really in that dire of a position then we simply wouldn't be seeing new companies join the party or existing companies like Bachmann launching whole brand new ranges. They are here to make money after all and it if it wasn't profitable in some way they just simply wouldn't do it. I agree that we've never had it better. People complain about the prices in comparison to older models but personally I'd rather have the detail and the running capabilities of today's models. Thanks for watching 😃
Great to revisit this subject. The hobby is evolving, some people are frightened by change and so go on negative rants, it’s same in many other hobbies. It’s also important to understand that social media doesn’t represent the hobby, just a part of it, the ‘commentators’ are irrelevant it’s the makers, the creators and the enthusiasts that make the hobby. 👍
I don't think we can completely ignore social media though at the "commentators" are often just normal people who are also the makers/creators/enthusiasts too. That's the great thing about social media is that is gives everyone a voice... that bad thing with social media is that it gives everyone a voice 😅
Obviously those with the negative experiences tend to shout loudest but disregarding them entirely is not the way to go. Instead I think we should exercise caution and more healthy moderation when possible. Thanks for watching 👍
What a refreshing take on things.
Thanks Trevor, really glad you felt so. Thanks for watching 😃
Was 100% the right call from the Warley club. When was a kid we travelled from Suffolk with a huge Blue Grey layout to attend but when we turned up turns out it wasn't so huge, the exhibition was a behemoth of an exhibition. Well as got older I moved a lot lot closer so attended every year and my old Dad would make the trip from Suffolk. It just got to the point it wasn't worth it anymore. With all due respect to them their quality went downhill massively. Thanks for reading :p
I visited last year for the first time and my overall reaction was that it was too big. Luckily I was going to see specific layouts and manufacturers otherwise it would have been impossible to know where to start. I can't speak to the quality having only visited once but I do feel like this new Statfold Barn show is a fresh new start and I wish the team all the success in the world with it. Thanks for watching 😃
It isn't dying its still getting more popular and the scale behind you does seem to be a popular one for those entering the hobby or those who are getting back into it. I have been tempted by TT:120 but being a GWR western region fan mostly I am waiting till the GWR items to come out.
For all the hate TT:120 gets it's done wonders for bringing new people into the hobby. What I suspect irks some people is that those newcomers aren't often necessarily concerned with doing things the "proper" way. Thanks for watching 😃
As a Canadian who only likes British trains the lack of hattons kinda sucks but rails has really stepped up
Yeah I suspect we will see other retailers start to fill to void... TMC has pretty good international shipping as well I think. Thanks for watching 😃
One thing I’d like to see from the TT120 range is a smaller starter set. Theoretically the smaller scale would allow my son to be able to have a layout in his bedroom where 00 wouldn’t fit and he’d be dead keen to get into modelling as a 9-year-old, however the buy-in at ~£200 is just too high for now.
I suspect we will see one in the future, perhaps even next year, either with the J50 once that's been released or with the Class 08. Thanks for watching 😃
I think it’s worth mentioning that some manufacturers are consistently making their models ‘limited edition’, with only 500 units or so being made.
All this does in the long term is harm the consumer as it keeps prices higher initially AND maintains higher second hand costs too.
I want to get a Class 221 in XC livery for my daughter as she won’t shut up about it, but they’re as rare as hens teeth and for a reasonable example, you’re looking at £350+ second hand.
Having spoken to many of the manufacturers most of them make smaller batches these days (regardless of whether they're limited editions or not) simply because that's what the market can sustain. Several manufacturers business model is to make enough to cover pre-orders to avoid having extra costs/surplus stock.
Often though if a model is very popular we see it make a return further down the line. The Stirling Single is a good example of this: Secondhand prices went crazy so Rapido announced a new run of them and only raised the price by £50 - which is pretty impressive considering the extra work that has gone into this updated model (not to mention inflation too).
That said, there are lots of locomotives available out there at lower prices but those looking for bargains have to be less choosy in that instance. If you want a very specific model that is highly sought after... well the reason the price is high is because everyone wants one. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy if a model is very popular, then clearly the market/manufacturers can sustain more of them being produced, no? 🤔
Over here in the US, I've noticed a tick up in Narrow Gauge modeling. mainly due to digital media, such as Railroads: Online, and the ongoing development of Century Of Steam. However...that's not to say we're running into issues....notably...Tofu dregs overseas, national debt, inflation, and in general competition from the digital market.
An example is the Big Boy...a manufacture makes 4014 and maybe one or two other locomotives in the 4000 class, and you MAYBE get ONE, however, I buy/download one Big Boy digitally, and I have the entire class and don't have to worry as much about storage.
There's definitely been an increase of narrow gauge modelling in the UK too now that 009 is supported quite well with a wide range of RTR products. I do feel one of the big advantages of narrow gauge is that you can fit more into the available space giving the sense of a much larger or more expansive railway. Thanks for watching 😃
I feel that the hobby has never been threatened with an end at all. Some channels used it as clickbait to drive channel views. However, I do feel that the huge price hype with Bachmann and Hornby will ultimately drive most into an increasingly more vibrant second-hand market. Hornby just announced 12.5% price increase against a 2% inflation rate. Apparently Bachmann selling the highest-priced 08 around. All that said yes youngsters and other adults will enter this great hobby, but not by purchasing new models. That will become the preserve of a few who can afford to do so. I feel that manufacturers must pay attention to alienating the future clients that in time they will come to rely upon. cheers Paul
To be honest I felt that most of the RUclipsrs were pretty restrained. From what I saw most took the opinion that it was sad but not the end of everything. Meanwhile there are groups of diehard modellers who often whip themselves up into a frenzy and this was the topic of the moment.
As I've said in response to other comments, yes the prices are going up in some places and some models, like the new 08, do command a big price tag if you want all the new special features. But equally there are budget options on the market. The Dapol Hawthorn & Leslie springs to mind and Oxford Rail's upcoming J26 are both very keenly priced despite being highly detailed models. Thanks for watching 😃
Great update on the earlier video, I fully agree with your viewpoint. Your channel is doing wonders to help the hobby which I am sure is in a better place than some armchair-experts might say.
Glad to hear I'm not alone with my thinking! I have to admit I really don't understand why there is so much negativity in a hobby that is meant to be about pure enjoyment. Thanks for watching 🤩
Another point is that those of us born in the 60's and 70's that had to stop due to jobs, familes etc. Now I have more disposable income. I'm actually down to the choices between Lenz and Digitrax (Brit that lives in US) The deciding factor is not so much the money but the availability of components. Best sound decoders to retrofit older Hornby and Triang stock, which automation system to use, etc etc. But point is I have bigger money to spend now than I did as a 15 yo.
I think this is partly where the problem lies is that the hobby covers a range of people at different stages of life with different budgets to spend. In some ways that's a good thing, it shows the hobby has a wide reach. But it does mean that the manufacturers, when given a choice, will develop products for people like yourself who have more money to play with and are willing to spend it to get what you want. Thanks for watching 😃
For me these events signalled a big change in the hobby. The dreaded pre order syndrome fully took over and manufacturers making sufficient numbers of products stopped which only panders to the 'collectors' take over. That said there are still good things going on. It's worth pointing out your own significant achievement here! You have 30k+ subscribers and on this video 30k+ views, that's the highest engagement/subscription count I've ever seen. Well done 👍
To be honest I think we reached that point a long time ago. Having spoken directly with many of the manufacturers though I fully understand why that has to be the case these, especially for the newer entrants to the hobby.
It's also important not to judge the entire channel on the success of one video... my ego's already big enough 😅 Videos like these do tend to touch a nerve and bring people out of the woodwork though. Thanks for watching 👍
I think Hornby had some serious QC problems with the TT 120 which quite possibly dented their profits. Hopefully things are getting better and they get it all sorted. I know 4 out of my 6 locos have had to be sent back, stupid things that should never have been allowed. Rear couplings falling off my 08, drive shafts falling out of my class 50, and stupid other niggling problems. With a bit bit of luck it onwards from here on.
I can't say I've had any issues with the TT models myself and while I don't want to dismiss your own experience, if it was a really widespread problem I would have thought people would have given up on the scale before it really got going. Thank for watching 👍
I definitely think some people blew the issue out of proportion 😂 personally I’m kinda neutral on this though. While I don’t think the hobby is at its end, I don’t think it’s in the best place. Personally Hattons and other retailers closing was a reminder that we need to support our retailers to keep them in business, not only because they are a great place to buy model railway items, but also because people have jobs at them and personally I think more people are likely to get started with model railways if they see them in person. In terms of Warley I think that it is sad to see the show go, and it is a little worrying that there weren’t enough younger volunteers interested in helping to keep it going. I find some clubs are quite strict about accuracy and younger people joining them, and I can’t help but feel that this is an issue for the hobby, as people who are young now will eventually be the “elders” in our hobby, if you get what I’m saying. I also think one of the biggest issues is not having enough budget models. While Hornby have their Railroad range, no other manufactures really have budget options available, and even most of the Hornby railroad stuff is getting quite pricy (Ie: their upcoming re-release of Tornado is going to cost the same as a Dapol Manor despite the Dapol Manor being much higher spec). I can’t help but feel that a lot of manufacturers could release budget models but don’t, as Hornby seem to have a habit of putting their older models in their main range, Bachmann have some old toolings in their range that could and should be sold as budget models, and it would be nice to see some other manufactures being out more budget options! I’m not at all against extremely accurate top of the line models, but I think it needs to be considered that lots of people are on tighter budgets, and lots of slightly older versions of models (ie: Bachmann Class 37, Hornby Black Five, Bachmann Class 47, Bachmann V2, Hornby 9F) are still good, just less detailed than their newer counterparts, but would make good models for being between the Hornby Railroad Range and top of the line models, and the manufactures still have these toolings but they aren’t being used. This is all just my opinion of course, but I feel that it is important to get as many people involved in the hobby as possible, and I feel like this would be a great way of achieving that goal!
I also totally agree with what you said about Hornby! Hornby are far from my favourite manufacturer, as I feel their quality, treatment of retailers, customers and manufacturers has left a bit to be desired, however they are improving and I’m glad to see that TT has been relatively successful!!
I don’t think it’s should be purely down to us to keep a retailer open. If the main reason for Hattons closing was a lack of customers (which may or may not be the case) then those customers were going to other retailers and it’s on Hattons to figure out why.
Warley isn't really an issue in my opinion. Better equipped companies have stepped up in to take over the NEC show while the current Warley members have setup a more manageable show with it’s own USP. It seems like the best course of action all round.
Other manufacturers don’t have a large back catalog of old tooling like Hornby do. The closest might be Bachmann but I suspect they would have to drop some of their other ranges to be able to accommodate it. In my opinion Bachmann consider themselves more a premium brand. But I think we forget that using an old tooling doesn’t automatically make the production of those models cheap. There are lots of factors to consider across the board.
Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy yes there are other factors that played into Hattons for sure, I’m saying it was more of a message to retailers/customers in general.
Warley closing wasn’t a HUGE loss, what I feel the bigger issue is the lack of younger members willing to step up.
I know other manufacturers don’t have massive back catalogs like Hornby and Bachmann, but both those companies sometimes release older models (Bachmann have the B1, Ivatt 2 Tank, V1/V3 to name a few, Hornby have the 4F, 2P and Pug), which are all quite dated and yet are still sold for high prices. The other thing to consider is that the tooling costs for these would be long covered, so now the manufacturer just needs to keep reproducing them, which is much cheaper than tooling up a new model, especially if these older, more dated models are less complex to assemble as well. Let’s also not forget Bachmann used to have their junior range and they have their Thomas range, both of which aren’t exactly premium
Like you I don't really worry much about the future of the hobby but it is definitely changing. Most new modellers are not part of a club (including myself) preferring the RUclips life but this does mean that I attend exhibitions but don't actually help with them which is a widespread and increasing issue.
I do worry about Hornby more though. With the exception of brief period around Covid there has been major losses on losses each year for a long time. How long can this go on for?
The other aspect is if you compare the number of new tooling releases. Even across TT:120 and 00 combined this lags behind new and established players such as Bachmann combined with EFE and Accurascale / Rapido. This to me suggests they overstreched themselves in past few years but this may have a much longer impact in that the costs need recoup. They also need to make the most of their existing tooling suites better IMO. Coronation Scot coaches haven't been seen in Maroon / Dublo A3's and Merchant Navy's haven't been seen for a while. The Gresley LNER coaches are superb but haven't been released in several liveries for a long time pushing ebay prices to silly money as another example. They seem to be leaving a lot on the table.
The poaching of diesel and electric locos left right and centre with minimal response also is a worry as these were previously considered market leading and solid models that could command a premium price. They now have to discount or not compete at all.
I think their price point for what you get is slightly out compared to the market today especially as I believe Colletts models have said there's a 10% increase coming in September. Compare the RRP for a Class 80x series of around £500 to what IRM (Accurascale) are doing with the Class 22000 railcars for the same money as an example. Bearing in mind it's a niche product as well (compare mk2 prices for example as the IRM ones do command an understandable premium).
The June annoucnement with the Grand Central HST issues to me shows that Hornby still have a heck of lot to learn, even with the new management and if they don't improve for me it suggests that Hornby could be in trouble without a change of direction. I can certainly see them live on as brand releasing basic train sets and being nearly entirely railroad only that can be sold on the high street (noting Mike Ashley's recent stake).
Interesting that you feel that Hornby aren't releasing many new toolings in comparison to other manufacturers when, in the last 18 months, they've released 7 different locos and 13 different types of rolling stock for TT:120 alone (with more due before the end of the year). Have any other manufacturer achieved that in a single scale in the same timeframe?
Equally I fully understand why they haven't made more announcements regarding maroon Coronation coaches or more LNER teaks. As I said in the video their production capacity hasn't increased and their focus at the moment is on delivering what they have already announced rather than adding more to the pot. I'm sure in time we'll see some of these announced, most likely when they're closer to arrival.
Hornby are making changes but it's not going to happen overnight. In the meantime we have to be patient while they go through this transition period, just like Bachmann did a few years ago. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy you what know fair point. I hadn't appreciated there was quite that many TT:120 releases but when you take a step back and look it is pretty extensive.
To be fair even as I think a bit more there have been a good number of OO releases, just very few that have interested me hence why it's felt quite lacklustre for me compared to others. Those that have have often also had frustrating niggles that get 95% of the way there which has taken some of the shine off them as well. They can also make themselves an easy target with decisions like the Grand Central HST not having the distinctive buffers as they've gone for Railroad tooling rather than full fat alongside the somewhat dry presentation style.
I think you touch on interesting point however around the production capacity not increasing. To me this is an odd move when trying to ramp up TT:120. Hornby are in the unique position of trying to maintain a full fat range and the basic range and now TT:120 it's only natural that the others see less releases going forward. It'll be interesting where the balance lies in the future.
The capacity constraints have also been part of the reason they haven't been able to respond to the competition on in diesels as readily as they did with the class 91?
I joined the hobby pretty much as Bachmann started the quarterly announcements so don't have that frame of reference but from what I have seen the new style of media presence hasn't given me a lot of confidence yet but I do wish them well nevertheless. I do hope 2026 will bring more than one new tooling announcement for OO though!
You know thinking about it, I believe I read somewhere that Hornby did say they were using a different factory for TT:120. I can't remember what the source was on that though so perhaps don't take that as gospel. And additionally I'm not trying to go back on my earlier comments, this has only just occurred to me now. But generally I was referring to the 00 gauge not having any additional capacity and Hornby needing to catch up on their backlog there.
Personally I feel like Hornby have made a decision to not go after the diesels lately and focus on what their core market wants - which tends to be big express engines or cute quirky industrials. Similarly Bachmann have leaned into the diesel side of things with very few (if any) steam announcements in 00 lately. Meanwhile Accurascale also started out by focusing on the large diesel market (though they're now expanding) and Rapido have carved out a niche for themselves with lots of pretty Pre-Grouping locos. I think it's all about the manufacturers finding their own little corners to be honest.
Too true.Thanks for posting. The model in the background, have you done any videos on it?
He did a whole series which is on his channel
Yep there's an entire video series here of the progress on the TT:120 layout: ruclips.net/p/PLrxCs5t2FkmwORIf4ZAU7jUUfK2fsx056
It's not finished yet but will be soon as it's appearing at an exhibition in September. Thanks for watching 😃
@@aberfordwest4003 Thank you
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Thank you for sharing this project. I very much look forward to watching all the episodes.
You're welcome, there should be new episodes throughout the rest of the Summer. And if you happen to be near Tunbridge Wells you can come see the finished layout in person at Spa Valley Railway on the 21st/22nd of September 😃
I have to agree with a fellow named Zed Lewis. It's not dying, but there's some model railway influencers who make me sick to my stomach when they give models shit for not having "1000% extra fine detail" and companies charging ridiculous amounts of money.
There will be that one person that justify "It's a rich man's hobby". Cute. Because I and many other "smart" modellers out there are able to make layouts for less out of our own creative minds by utilizing material around us and not having to give into ridiculous prices for scenery (assuming we've got the tools and have been in the hobby for a while).
I still dont understand Hornby TT:120, OO is your money maker. Simon Kohler also flat out lied to me about how they were treat their Brick and Mortar businesses a few years ago which also was a bit of a turnoff for me.
There does seem to be a trend with some people where deliberately creating a bad review or trashing a company has become the norm. Sadly negativity does get you more views/engagement/etc. Personally when I review locos I never shy away from the faults if I pick up on them, but I always try to approach them with a positive attitude.
I definitely agree that there are lots of ways to enjoy the hobby even on a smaller budget. Sometimes a lack of money or space can end up producing some really creative results.
TT:120 for Hornby is essentially the same as 009 is for Bachmann. It's a niche scale intended to appeal to a different type of audience, in this case newcomers to the hobby who aren't so fussed about creating a prototypical layout but still want a decent amount of detail for their money. On that front it's doing very well and has allowed Hornby to create a market where, in the UK, the are the biggest fish in the pond. Thanks for watching 😃
Hobby and leisure always gets hit hardest and first in a recessionary environment. Discretionary spending continues to fall as costs increase. I see more people shifting towards budget builds and more interest in the secondhand market.
Very true and I think there's a lot of opportunity to be had with building layouts on a budget. Let's not forget there will be a portion of modellers who have already completed their layouts and are happy with all the models they've got who won't necessarily need to spend anymore money, but will still be engaging in the hobby. Thanks for watching 😃
It is my view that as the model enthusiast demographic is naturally replaced with the tech savvy modeller, things are moving increasingly online. The days of having to go to a shop to get informed on a particular item there are channels such as this that do reviews etc and a purchase can be made online. While this is a shame for various reasons and the loss of large shows is not ideal I don’t think the hobby is in jeopardy.
I don't think that's limited to just model railways either. Lots of younger people are taking up new hobbies all the time but often they engage with it in the ways they're familiar using technology and social media. We haven't really seen a loss in large shows though - like I said in the video, one show ended and three more have replaced it so not a bad result at the end of the day. Thanks for watching 😃
Well thought out on what you are saying, somehow people prefer to be on a downer, instead of looking at the positives, this was one of the reasons I don't by newspapers and binned the TV 15 years ago too much doom and gloom.
Yes I've never understood why people take a hobby that's intended to be fun and only focus on the negatives. That's not to say we should ignore valid concerns... but at the same time if you're still able to play trains and have fun does it really matter? Thanks for watching 😃
Warley was pretty fair about their reasons for closure, but they do have enough entire youth section (that I’m in) and some younger adults as well, so they’re doing fine in that regard
Like I said in both videos, it seems odd that they would highlight the lack of (relatively) younger members willing to take over if that wasn't the case. With the announcement of the new Statfold Barn show, from an outside perspective it does give the impression that the enthusiasm to organise a show was there but the infrastructure to hand over the huge NEC event wasn't. I don't disagree with decision or the reasoning behind it, but I do feel it could have been worded better. Thanks for watching 👍
TT layout looks great behind and looking forward to the next episode in the build 👍. I can’t keep up with Hornbys TT releases this year wallets taking a bashing.
I also went to Doncaster at the beginning of the year my first exhibition experience and it was rammed. Couldn’t move for people. Loads of great layouts and lots of young kids which was great to see.
Thanks, I'm slowly getting there with the TT layout but it's really starting to take shape. The next few episodes are really exciting!
Yes a lot of exhibitions do seem to be nice and busy. I help out with the Spa Valley Railway's show and last year was pretty rammed their too. Thanks for watching 😃
The hobby is not "dying" bachmann Lionel dapol And many other are still in business, this to me is like when life like, ahm, and Tyco went out of business Even in the 1990s people were complaining about the hobby "dying"
Which was essentially the point of my original video. This follow up was to highlight what has changed in the months since to show how the hobby has adapted, changed and even grown despite starting the year on a bit of a bad note. Thanks for watching 👍
What would make the train shows better is to have every major city have at least three shows a year for more swapping train selling it would be more open to the public a new person to get involved finding the products that he needs to build train layout as a young child I had trouble finding the things I needed. Yes we have eBay but the shipping costs are high for the youngsters.
To be completely honest that's an unrealistic prospect. Who is going to organise and fund three shows a year in every major city? There are plenty of model railway shows around already, the key is not quantity but quality. As long as the current shows are well attended, which most are, then that implies that the hobby is doing well. Thanks for watching 👍
The 1990s and 2000s were the Golden Age of the hobby. With costs going up, the hobby will go back to what it was in the 1970s, a upper middle class hobby.
If high prices wee going to cause the end of the hobby then I think it would have happened a while ago and that isn't really the point of discussion here. As it seems to be a popular topic I'll probably do a dedicated video on it at some point but essentially while prices are going up there are still plenty of ways to enjoy the hobby in a more budget friendly way. Personally I think that's the route the clubs should go to entice new/younger members. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Interesting point. Clubs were never as much of a factor here in the US. There are some, but in dense populated areas of the Northeast US. Most people had to engage in the hobby without much involvement beyond family members. So, I think generational change is also a factor over hear.
Pete Waterman said that the hobby has been on it's last legs since he was a child. There only has to be a major retailer close and a major exhibition or two that's not going to happen again and the doom and gloom brigade are trumpeting the end of the hobby. To me there's a useful four letter word and the doom and gloom brigade are full of it. The hobby is far from dying and is just changing as it always has.
Yes there always seems to be someone saying the hobby is on the way out and it's survived so far. Like I said in the video, we modellers are a stubborn lot and we don't give up easily. Thanks for watching 😃
It's not really dying, as it is becoming less "Brick and Mortar" and more online order, as well as more people are wanting the highest detailed product and that stems from "demand" of said product making them more expensive in the process.
I think the hobby went online a long time ago to be honest. I've had this channel for over 5 years now and I was nowhere near the first on the scene.
I do agree that modellers are wanting more and more detail and extra features on their models but that they're not willing to pay the price for them. I wouldn't want to be a manufacturer at all! Thanks for watching 😃
TMC has been a godsend for me the past few weeks. They've got plans to open their own Trunk service, and have been gracious enough to allow me to message their customer support team with any orders I place so that they can move them into the Trunk.
Yes I did know TMC were planning something although I didn't want to go into too many specifics as I wasn't sure what was public knowledge yet... so that's why I only briefly referenced it in the video. Great to hear that they're helping you though! Thanks for watching 😃
Amazing talk on the shape of things. I remember saying that this hobby won't die, not yet anyway, when the year started.
I think as long as there is interest and someone to show people the way this hobby will be around for decades to come.
Agreed, I really can't see the hobby going away any time soon. Look at all the modellers working in obscure scales like S or 3mm. If they've managed to keep going all this time without much RTR support, then even if all the manufacturers and retailers imploded overnight the rest of us would still have plenty of resources to work from. Thanks for watching 🤩
Pity you didn’t mention the Stafford Exhibition the largest independent model Railway Exhibition 28th & 29th September 2024😊
Because I was talking specifically about the Warley show and the subsequent new shows that have popped up in it's place at the NEC. Thanks for watching 👍
Hornby have quietly been canceling some of their previously announced models, but yeah, it doesn't really matter what happens with the big companies anymore, all the electronic parts can be bought from china or japan and with 3d printers all the rest can be easily made at home.
In some ways it makes sense to cancel some products if there isn't much interest and they haven't sold well on pre-order. That'll open up the production slots for the stuff that is more popular and helps Hornby get back on track, though hardly ideal. Thanks for watching 😃
For any hobby to survive it needs to attract young people into it without that there are no customers for retailers or manufacturers. You can only join a model railway club if you have one in your area and be able to afford membership. Yes there are benefits of joining a club like been able to run your locomotives on a layout and will help with mental health well been. But today's young people are more technology minded and have grown up with the Internet unlike the previous generations who are likely to want a physical layout. Building a lay is costly so is buying rolling stock and locomotives it is much easier and cheaper to buy computer games with incomes limited especially if you are paying rent and bring up a family it is not possible to buy a £200 plus locomotive. No the hobby is not dying and is changing towards becoming a very niche hobby based on technology or if people want a physical layout they might buy estate collections. Hatton closed due to bad business decisions with little chance of economic turnaround. Hornby's quarterly statement was neither good or bad I find it interesting that Mike Ashley has shares in Hornby he usual buys shares in companies that he might have a chance in buying cheap from creditors then sell on for millions even if it's just the name.
Like I said in the video, a lot of the people I speak to at exhibitions these days are teenagers or families who have just started, or are looking to start their first layout. Where I live there are 3 towns nearby with 4 model railway clubs between them - I'm not suggesting that's the case everywhere in the country but with a bit of work you can find something. Even if you don't have a nearby club, most areas have exhibitions - you can go to one of those and chat to the layout operators, or even those running the exhibition, make friends and ask if they need any help at further shows. There are lots of different ways to get involved and joining a club is cheaper than building your own layout.
I agree a lot of younger modellers and newcomers are turning online when it comes to engaging with the hobby (which is where I feel clubs are missing a trick) but building a layout also doesn't have to expensive. My first serious layout was made using not much more than secondhand track, an old shelf and some Metcalfe buildings. It won't win any awards but it was enough to get me started in the hobby. There seems to be this assumption that newcomers will immediately be faced with buying a £200 super detailed loco and a full rake of coaches, then have a huge layout... when in actual fact it's often a slower much more gradual process or starts with purchase of a set.
At the end of the day, those who are genuinely interested and want to participate in the hobby will find a way to make it work for them. Thanks for watching 👍
It's not dying. A re-adjustment is needed. Prices are getting too high for younger audiences.
Hattons website was a terrible example of how to do e-commerce so it's not surprising they didn't survive in this day and age.
I don't think price is really the issue here. If it was then the hobby would have already died out but instead it's still going strong. Personally I found the Hattons website fine - not the best but not the worse. I think loosing Hornby and Bachmann from their range was probably a bigger issue to be honest but I doubt we'll ever know the full story. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyI mean 40 pounds for a an 040 shunted is ridiculous. Why is narrow guage so expensive as well
Everybody was dismayed at Hattons closing down but no-one thought about the reasons why The cost of manufacturing models and auxiliaries went through the roof and customers dropped off Hattons was a business that had to make some profit to stay viable so it closed as for Hornby their product control is non existence they turn out crap after crap and jack up their prices by 40---50% Its no wonder the customers have gotten tired of it This is only two examples
If that was the case then surely it would have been the same for all the major retailers, not just Hattons. We'll probably never know the full story but I can't imagine loosing both Hornby and Bachmann from their range can have helped.
As for Hornby's quality control, I appreciate it's not always perfect (no company is) but some of their recent models have been outstanding. The 2MT, 9F and P2 all spring to mind. Thanks for watching 👍
People can get confused between 'dying' and 'adapting'.
With recent companies like Modelu, Rapido, Accurascale etc. coming to the fore, older more established companies may fall away or even disappear altogether but the 'industry' continues, just in different hands. Eg. If Hornby collapsed and went bankrupt, we'd all be shocked and would talk about their history and the good things they achieved but would still be placing orders with their competitors and the hobby would continue. Personally, I believe the hobby is growing.
I fully agree. Letting the hobby evolve over time is a good thing, the worry would be if it started to stagnate, which we're definitely not seeing.
Even if Hornby were to collapse, I bet the name would continue to live on in someway because the brand recognition is very valuable in the world of model railways - just like Triang did decades ago. Thanks for watching 😃
@ThatModelRailwayGuy
Great video BTW. I think you and your fellow RUclips creators have become vital spokespersons and influencers who are helping to turn the hobby from an 'underground' hobby into a national and international past .
Keep it up, thank you.
*time
I'll be honest, I don't like the term "influencer" as I'm definitely not here to tell anyone how they should enjoy or participate in their hobby, nor am I here to try and sell things to anyone 😅 But I appreciate it's more of a catch all term these days and as long as people are enjoying and learning from the videos, that's the most important thing in my eyes.
The Layout sure got grown up. It almost lookes like its real 😅
Just wait until you see the next few episodes... lots of big changes coming! Thanks for watching 😃
Still lost with Hornby TT. Never mind Hornby. What about Grafar, Dapol and the entrants who are making an entry in a sensible smaller gauge,
Why are you lost with TT? It's just another option and one that seems to be pretty popular so far, especially with newcomers. Meanwhile N gauge still has a solid fanbase and is well supported by several manufacturers. I'm not sure what your point is here. Thanks for watching 👍
I found a old set of mine the other day got me back into it got more track on the way
Awesome, that's fantastic to hear! Welcome back to hobby, I hope it provides you with plenty of fun. Thanks for watching 😃
It is changing. However I don’t ever buy new stuff. I allway buy used mostly from estate sales
Of course it's changing. If anything it's good that the hobby continues to evolve and adapt... what would be worrying is if it starts to stagnate. But as you've already discovered there are multiple ways to enjoy this hobby without buying the latest super detailed models on release. Thanks for watching 😃
Well said!
Glad you agree Ken! Thanks for watching 😃
I've been thinking about making a huge layout w/ multiple gauges (Yes, I'm very ambitious lol).. I know to use HO/OO and OO9, but I was wondering whether I should use N scale or TT:120 for Miniature Gauge. What do you think?
I'd say TT:120 would be very large for a miniature railway.. although to be honest so would N Gauge. Ultimately it's up to you but if you've already gone down the 009 route perhaps you can make use of the common track gauge with N. Thanks for watching 👍
The market adapts to changing circumstances. That's healthy.
I fully agree, it's when the hobby starts to stagnate that we should start worrying. Thanks for watching 😃
I had to quit the hobby because it's far too expensive these days. About 20 years ago, I had the late 90's Twin Train Freight, GWR Mixed Traffic and Inter City 225, back then it all cost around £300. Back then, you could actually have a decent amount of stuff to get going for a full baseboard layout.... I've considered making a multi inglenook shunting layout though. The hobby is always at the back of my mind.
That's a shame. I would argue that there are plenty of ways to enjoy the hobby on a lower budget though. Joining a club would actually be a lot cheaper than building your own layout in some instances, or like a say something smaller like an inglenook could be put together for not too much.
Maybe check out some of my earlier videos about Pickwick Yard. I built that layout using secondhand track and a few Metcalfe kits on an old shelf a while it's not super detailed I was pretty happy with it. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy I'm a guy that wants high detail of a layout. Thought about a club also. Not sure to be honest 😅
Maybe take a look at the techniques finescale modellers use then as they tend to build everything from scratch themselves. It can take a lot longer but produces some fantastic results 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy I'll look into it, thanks ;)
I love this hobby as does my son, yet with the proces it has become unreachable for those on a smaller buget, after 3 years of buying 2nd hand or unwanted bits we have a small working layout, perhaps they could reduce the costs as even Hornby are mostly made in china
The thing is making models in China doesn't necessarily mean cheap prices anymore. Hornby have their Railroad range for those on a tighter budget but even there we've seen necessary increases. That said I do believe it is possible to build a layout without breaking the bank. One of my earlier layouts Pickwick Yard was a good example of this as it was fairly simple but still looked decent (in my opinion at least!). Thanks for watching 😃
Bachmann also owns Liliput and Bachmann China which is under a name I can't remember, one releases mostly German epoch III and IV trains, The bad German Dictator era to the 1970s. the other, Chinese and German trains.
The Bachmann Group as an entity is owned by Kader which might be what you're thinking of. They have their own factory (factories?) which is why they're able to produce so many products. Thanks for watching 😃
Those who already own most of the rolling stock and most of other items they want will keep going, perhaps limiting their yearly purchase or slow it down. I never understood why somebody shops 10 locomotives or more per year anyways. But in a cost of living-crisis the hobby lacks rather beginners, so we will see consequences not now but in the years coming. There could be a decade or more with relatively few pensioners doing model railroading resulting in less grandchildren getting into contact with the hobby.
To be honest I think TT:120 has brought a huge amount of people (especially younger people) into the hobby. Most I've spoken to about it are those who haven't had a layout before for one reason or another. So there are still new people joining the hobby. Thanks for watching 😃
Here in Norway the hobby is struggling. Especially with recruting. It's much more expencive here as well, if you want to collect norwegian stock. You in the UK complain, but due to many more customers and larger badges of stock, I believe you have half the price we have.
Absolutely, for all the price increases we've had here in the UK recently, we're still quite a way off from the prices most of Europe pays - all while the detail and quality of our models continues to increase. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Yes, I envy you. I have travelled a lot by train in the UK, so I could defend having a british layout 😊 Keep up the good work.
Hobby ain't dying, after all Companies like Evemodel wouldn't be constantly offering inexpensive products at an accelerating place, having launched several more US and European wagons and modestly priced american and European locos and from Model power, Piko and Rivarossi-Jouef Moulds. Their houses come from revamped old VERO and pola moulds.
The bigger point here is that the UK branch of the hobby that this channel is focused on is very isolated against the wider hobby worldwide. Even if the UK branch were to somehow die out completely, the greater hobby would probably barely notice. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy And this is the UK branch's problem with so many modelers and companies trying to make it some exclusive club, instead of adhering to the standards of the worldwide hobby. Hornby should have went HO, which is what lima and Rivarossi both tried to do for UK railways, however that would have prevented them from using The old Tri-ang moulds.
Also If lima had held on to O instead of doing the bankrupcy producing Lima NOVA models in HO We'd have UK and continental O for not much more than HO.
All of Lima's modern image stuff for the most part is all Lima moulds anyway.
The UK hobby scene didn't create 00 just to be different, it was born out of necessity at a time where motors were too big to fit into the substantially smaller bodies of UK prototypes. 00 has since grown to be the most popular scale over here (despite it's shortcomings) so trying to convert everyone back over to H0 would be a disaster and would do more damage to the hobby in the long term.
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Maerklin invented OO, in fact Fleischmann's locos from the early era were actually OO for the same reason but the wagons were mostly HO, except for the Donnerbuchsen coaches which were 1:80 scale.
More programming gets more people involved. And that's what I would suggest to the model train clubs.
More programming of what? More shows, more layouts? Most clubs have enough work trying to put on one show a year as it is. As someone mildly involved in the organisation of an exhibition I can tell you that a huge amount of work goes into putting these events on. Thanks for watching 👍
When I grew up we didn't have shows of train layouts we just had swap meets a different locations. National Guard Armory and a fire station Hall School gymnasiums but there are more of them to go to local city.
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy negativity will get you nowhere.
It's not a question of negativity but of demand and practicality. I think this video proves that I have a very positive outlook for the UK branch of the hobby in comparison to most people. But unless you are offering to both fund and organise all these events I can't see how or even why it would be worth increasing the number of events.
Ive been into this hobby since 1986. The problem os ...the "old guard" or ...the all of the generations prior to the Boomer generation are no more. Those guys were the great pioneers and really kept the hobby going. The boomers are really the last gen now to really remember these locomotives and the times these layouts represent and they're slowing down a bit. Sad but true
I find it's less about age and more about attitude. At shows I've met plenty of older modellers who are genuinely enthusiastic about helping others within the hobby. I've also met younger modellers who resist engagement and refuse to share "their secrets". Thanks for watching 😃
Lol I'm just starting mine after planning for the last 50 years! with 3D printing and laser cutting its only getting better!
Amazing! Yeah I definitely agree that those two new pieces of technology are really changing the way model railways can be built. Thanks for watching 😃
Great video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching 😃
it's true, overseas here we miss eHattons indeed
Yes I suspect international customers have been the hardest hit by Hattons closure. But maybe check out The Model Centre. They do international shipping and I believe are working on a Trunk service similar to what Hattons used to have. Thanks for watching 😃
It will never end, look at the pioneers just after ww2 like the Rev Denny and Cyril Freezer. Most of the model railways had to be scratch built back then unless you wanted just a train set oval. A problem nowadays is not the loss of skill it is the lack of spare time and short attention time spans. Wealthier people should also note that the current financial problems have really hit middle as well as lower income housholds. As to oversesas manufacture are Chinese products really cheaper when retailed here than if British made nowadays. Finally I feel the keyboard and the screen are here to stay.
I remember seeing an letter from someone who had written into a modelling magazine back in the 1940s saying that the hobby was dying back then and wouldn't last until the end of the decade 😅
As for whether it's still cheaper to manufacturer models in China in comparison to the UK - categorically yes. Wages are increasing in China but they're still no where near the level that people would want paying over here. It's also skilled work too, skills that we don't have in general supply in this country so that will require training and not to mention that lack of infrastructure and equipment over here to start producing mass producing our models again. All this comes at a price which, some at least would have to be passed onto the customer. Why would the manufacturers take this route when the current system works.
There are some exceptions, PECO, Dapol and Gaugemaster all spring to mind, but these generally tend to be smaller companies working on smaller batches for more simple models. The only high detailed models I know of that are produced in the UK are from 00 Works and they come at a high price indeed. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Well lets have a hundred British companies manufacturing for our hobby not just two majors what after all are just brand names. We are allowing the globalist world to flourish. British manufacturing is now less than 10% of our econmy.
I think that's even less likely than manufacturing moving back to the UK in the first place.
In India this kind of hobby is very costly,
I tried purchase cost us 14000rs one locomotive, it's like my half salary,
So I purchased from US shop second hand with some more sets and it costed 12000rs, locomotive not working so I repaired,
Actually cost is very high, PCB, motor, metal spares simple cost is very high,
So I made custom, it takes so much time,
companies need to reduce cost, increase sale so everyone can have enjoy,
Only monopoly will kill this hobby
For as much as we moan in the UK about everything costing too much, we often forget that prices tend to be even higher around the world. As you've discovered, building everything yourself is a lot more cost effective but it takes more time. It does show though that there are multiple ways to enjoy the hobby and it's not all about how much money you spend. Thanks for watching 😃
One company , their rules !! . How about British Monopoly Regulater pulls their fingers out . Thanks guys . Dave
Huh... this doesn't make any sense. In case you haven't noticed there are lots of model railway companies, many of which are doing very well with more springing up all the time.
Nice video, but it could be cheaper, or actually make the railroad sets cheaper (because 40 pounds for a 20 year old tooling is ridiculous) I’m sure they can make the prices cheaper for some of the older toolings like the rapido ones or lima ones
The cost of a new model is less determined by the age of the tooling these days and more to do with the assembly. While the Railroad locos are simpler models on that front, they do still require workers to make and assemble the various parts. With workers wages in China having risen, so then do the cost of the locos. Obviously this is an over simplification but generally that's a big reason why the cost of models has gone up across the board. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Even if they are paying workers in China more I’m sure they can release them for cheaper than 30 pounds for a 20 year old loco, but I’m happy they are being payed more
Wouldn't say dying but I watched a review of a class 25, stunning model but base price was £200 then £260 with DCC chip then over £300 for deluxe model, so mucg gets packed into a model these days
And the reason there's so much packed into models these days is because that's what modellers have been asking for.
Alternatively, Dapol have just released their brand new Hawthorn Leslie for £106 while Oxford have their J26 (a larger tender engine) on the way for £110. While it's easy to focus on the higher end of the scale, there are models out there for lower price points too. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy just to say I'm not a modeller but the model is stunning
I only just started being serious about it, now that I'm retired and with a basement of my own and with a sympathetic wife.
Awesome, great to hear you're finally getting involved with the hobby! Hopefully the basement will give you lots of space to work with. Best of luck and thanks for watching 😃
The hobby stores are closed up because they can't afford to put the expensive stuff on the shelf and let it sit.
Which hobby stores are these? Because there's plenty of retailers out there still open and still selling models... an interestingly it tends to be the more expensive sound fitted deluxe versions which sell out first these days. Thanks for watching 👍
Chicagoland Hobbies train express Island train Madison Hardware . Countless of small train stores of closed.
I have a Andrew Barclay on preorder
Me too - I went for one of the open cab versions this time round! Thanks for watching 😃
Hornby need to change what they are doing, at the moment the company is bleeding to death and will die in the medium tern if this is not resolved. However I am not sure if slowing up new model releases, TT and pushing up prices to Marklin / Trix levels while delivering models with at least one major failing is going to resolve this. But it is their business and I respect that.
But... they are changing what they're doing, that's what I was trying to highlight in the video. It won't all happen overnight though. While there has to be a transition period, hyper-fixating on every move Hornby make is more likely to jeopardise their plans than help. I say let them get on with it and in the meantime there's plenty of other manufacturers to get excited about. Thanks for watching 👍
Sorry you misunderstood, I was agreeing with you as they do need to change as the 2017 "Simon" strategy failed to turn the corner despite the early promise.
However so far I am sceptical of what the new strategy is.
But as I said it is their business and I respect that so happy to let them get on with it.
My bad! I have to do a lot of moderation on these sorts of videos and they all tend to blur a bit 😅
For the moment I think the strategy is simply to catch up their existing announcements before adding too much more to the list. Presumably when they do start making more major announcements in 00 it'll be much closer to the release date similar to how Bachmann now annouces/releases new models.
The hobby may be in decline due to the manufacturers pushing ever higher prices, but it'll survive whatever happens. Maybe with 3D printing advancements we might see more independent makers undercut the mainstream manufacturers. The hobby certainly won't die that's for sure.
We've seen lots of new entrants into the market recently such as Accurascale and Rapido who have been with a generally positive response. Personally I think 3D printing is better suited to companies such as Modelu rather than the locomotive manufacturers but the technology does have its uses. Thanks for watching 😃
I dont think its the end i love videos on RUclips seeing them at shows
I fully agree with you on that one! Thanks for watching 😃
The hobby appears to be dying because it is becoming extremely exclusive. I have bought three 0-8-0 USRA heavy switchers, two matching tenders, seven matching tank cars, and two and a half cabooses (the half one only has one truck and no wheels), all are parts of the Shell Oil company HO scale model train collectables that came out in the 80's-90's. In total I have spent less than $50 for all of that, but to buy just one 0-6-0 switcher engine with tender in HO that is powered would cost over $300. Bigger engines that can actually pull more than a few cars at a time range from $400-$700 each, and every unit of rolling stock is $30-$50. As more and more companies prioritize profits per sell over overall sells during the worst time in the global market of our time since the great depression, of course everyone is going to take a huge hit. And other scales don't offer any better options either. Hobbies in general have been all but wiped out in the age of $20 an hour isn't enough to survive on, even full time RUclipsrs have given up and gone back to working real jobs after struggling for years to make it.
No, the hobby isn't dead, but it might as well be for 90% of the people that would love to participate but can't without going hungry. It's sickening to keep hearing how a $500 starter set is considered "affordable" when I make less than $25,000 a year. A hobby is alive and well when it is easily accessible to everyone.
I can't speak for the US or the rest of the world but here in the UK I don't think that is the case at all. While people love to have a moan about prices (and there are some expensive models around) there are also plenty of locomotives available for much more reasonable prices. Dapol have just released a little tank engine for £106 and Oxford Rail have a J26 coming that will be about £110... both of these in US dollars would be under $150. So while there is a premium side to the hobby that can be quite expensive, there are options out there for everyone. Thanks for watching 😃
fantastic video, great info and a huge Boom! to the scare mongers.
Glad you enjoyed it. I do like to keep things positive on this channel and since there are a few out there who do like to highlight all the negatives, it's always good to remind people that this hobby is meant to be fun. Thanks for watching 😃
Going to get i to TT120 this month ❤
Amazing! Best of luck with it, I hope you'll have a lot of fun with it. Thanks for watching 😃
Great video 👌Does anyone know any new date for the HATTONS batch 2 genesis coaches as the May/June date have passed?
We haven't been told yet. I wouldn't consider any previous dates to still be valid as there would have been quite some disruption caused from one company closing down and another taking over the project.
Rails Of Sheffield have said they will next update us production in complete and the models are in transit which is when they will start to transfer the previous Hattons orders over to their own system. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Thank you 👌
Hornby create their own problems by never producing enough stock of new launches.
It's a fine line between creating too much stock and having it end up in bargain bins a few months later, or not creating enough stock and it ending up on eBay for twice the price. Predicting which way each model will go is not a job I'd want. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy I work in inventory management so I would give it a go! 🤣
Surely there will never be a proper "flag in the ground" type moment for thr death of the hobby. Surely it would just slowly fade away and become more niche. Or will someone come round and confiscate all my models at the defined death day?????
There's a fleet of blacks vans with incinerators inside that will visit every person that has ever bought something model railway related 😅 Thanks for watching 👍