Gran Turismo 2: CHEATING AI
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2019
- Gran Turismo 2's races are filled with cheats - cars that exceed the events' power restrictions and cars that exceed their own power restrictions!
In this video, we're going to take a look at all of them (not just the Ford GT40 at Historical Rome...), so if you've ever been out-paced by the AI - particularly when you're driving the same car as they are - you'll finally know why this is. You didn't just forget to buy an extra power upgrade; the AI is cheating to win.
A big thanks to Toyota SPRINTER TRUENO 1986 for the thumbnail! / @toyotasprintertrueno1...
Music credits:
Jazzy Ryuuji - Air Flow
/ @jazzyryuuji
/ lee_ryuuji
/ jazzy_ryuuji
Folamour - Kickflippin' That Stuff
/ folamour
/ folamourmusic
/ moonrise-hill-material
/ folamour
Munir - Feels Around You
/ muniritmo
/ muniritmo 
Игры
![Eminem - Houdini [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/22tVWwmTie8/mqdefault.jpg)
atleast all the other races are beatable, unlike this mf-40 in rome
11 hours later...
Of course, the GT40 in Rome is hell, because it has DOWNFORCE to get through corners with ease, that's why we need racing modification for aerodynamics to get through the cheating opponents
bruh what about the vector m12
Have you tried using a Datsun 240ZG yet? I really think you should try using the Datsun Z, just saying.
BK4 you are literally everywhere and I love it
I knew the AI cheats. Nobody believed me. They all thought I was crazy.
I guess now everyone will believe you
they called u crazy conspiracy theorist
i knew it too
it doesnt only happen in gt2 but in all gt games
NFS has the worst cheating AI
@@mecca6801 no way which NFS ?
My theory is the AI isnt as good at cornering as a real player and during testing they realised it was too easy. So they ramped the horsepower up to compensate
Yeah I was thinking the same like that's there way of making the AI hard by giving them more power
It’s better than slow AI though
Definitely, they brake way too much a lot of the time and don't accelerate early enough out of the corners.
Makes sense. The Vector might be a small error, but nothing special. Having ultra dificult AI makes racing fun, because you really need to get strategies to beat it. It reminds me of facing Senna in Super Monaco GP on the Mega Drive, where he was ultra strong in the first races, until you overtake him, but overtaking him was almost impossible
That's exactly what I thought, and the cheating is much worse on games like forza motorsport 4, 6 and 7 (I haven't played 5, I don't know for sure about that one). On those games if you get more than one opponent ahead of you, even though they are not supposed to be on the same team, the one in first will drive as fast as possible and any cars between you and first will slow down on the corners to block you and force you to try to pass awkwardly, way off the driving line where you have no chance of taking the corner fast enough to pass. Essentially you have to push these opponents out of the way (a risk if you race with simulation damage) and I'd rather race against opponents who aren't a team even if they have an unfair power advantage. I only wish Gran Turismo had kept it's former level of detail in upgrades and tuning, I still don't know what to make of the differential tuning menu on GT Sport.
The amount of times I spent as a kid buying the car that was dominant in a race to beat it only to still be beaten by the car still. ***Controller has exited window successfully***
Now you know why. :)
Opponents= *uses GTLM or LM cars*
Xantia driver= it's fine,ill race anyways
Race modded cars are a fairly sizeable upgrade over non race modded ones. The RX7 A-Spec GTC for example. The race version that you can buy is actually better despite the road going one that you can win having a higher maximum power but it can't be race modded.
ShiningJudgment666 Is this due to the downforce on the race variant, or are there other differences as well? Is it lighter, or...?
[Kind of banking on you to have free time to check, but nonetheless I am extremely interested]
@@anubeia The downforce is a big difference since you can adjust it and yes, I believe the full on race variants are lighter (though the Toyota GT One road car and race car are I believe the same weight) though race modding a car does give a further weight reduction and unlocks downforce tuning for the car. Some cars can end up on par or greater than race cars after race mods like the R34 GTR. There's also the Lotus Elise GT1 and TVR Speed 12 (both require a lot of tuning or they'll oversteer big time) though they're both special model cars (the latter being a prize car).
Cheers. I've always wondered why this was so when I was younger.
FIA looking over the entry paperwork...
Nissan Skyline Super GT500 = Check
GT1 Dodge Viper = Check
Lister Storm = Check
Toyota Supra GT500 = Check
Corvette C5R = Check
Bone Stock Xantia with street tires, and like 190 horsepower if he's lucky = *FUCK IT HE PAID THE ENTRY FEE?*
MORE LIKE CHEA-T40 AMIRITE
Guakstick yes
N I C E
Cheaty 40
YEAH
Guakstick YELLOW EVO 5 WILL SAVE US
Ever since I was a kid I knew something was up with the AI in GT2. I specifically remember buying a Honda CRX Si-R for one of the beginner events. It was at Tahiti Road and I was up against some slow little kei cars. Should've been easy, right? Nope. No matter how hard I pushed in the corners the AI would fly past me on the straightaways. They'd even out accelerate me uphill. In their puny little kei cars! Thank you for confirming my suspicions. Great work as always!
Those cars you mention actually have very little more power than stock (around 120hp for the more powerful ones from memory). What you experienced was the strong rubberbanding present in Sunday Cup races. They are programmed to have about 20% increase in performance at about 50m behind you, and to slow down when they're in front, down to about 50% their normal speed. Even if they wanted to, they actually can't outrun you with a CRX unless you yourself are going slow ;)
Thanks Sean!
@@MattJ155 i bet the one driving the M12 LM in Trial Mountain 30lap race is Maki Nishikino, the rich girl.
I’ve been playing GT2 recently, and I swear the god damn Renault Clio V6’s in the 296 hp events are overpowered
@@orcastrike7750 yes. By only 1bhp.
I can hear BK4 is typing
Edit : He's There! Pinned comment!
Redza: Malaysian Crossover the pinned comment
And he got pinned
Oh Hello AGAIN other yellow evo
@@Tim_Martin Hello
who? oh dont worry i dont give a shit
To be fair from the CPU's perspective the humans are the cheaters. We can move off the racing line. Make tactical decisions. Hell, even restart if we lose! We're so OP!
And we can be time lords with savestates.
@@thepunslinger9349 lol i thought I was the only one who does that.
We live in a simulation
Last turn on Trial Mountain First few turns on Apricot Hill
Damn. I knew this game was classy. They are cheating to be fair!
That race with the Vector is unexpectedly heart-pounding. I sat on the edge of my seat the whole race. I expected you to beat it with dirty methods like ramming it off the track (after all we're talking 300+ hp difference here), but no, it's legit racing and pit tactics.
And it's good to see that vector get beaten, as I never managed to win that race myself. Kudos to you, good sir..
SAGHW Team I just quit and reenter until it dissapears
Thanks, man. Yeah, I was determined to beat it legitimately to show it can be done. If the AI had a better pit strategy, it would have been impossible, but that's probably too much to expect from a 20-year-old video game.
For me i can beat Vector M12 LM using Mitsubishi Galant VR4 race mod NA.
Not the most powerfull car to beat that cheater but yeah pit strategy.
Once the M12 LM pit, i'm not gonna pit at 4 laps.
I can race that AWD salon with almost red tires so i thats why i smoke that 2 M12 LM with 1 lap down.
I remember overtaking it early in traffic & just viciously ramming it into walls whenever that cheap bastard came near.
I basically overdosed on irony by entering that race with the Ford GT40 (edited of course).
Only a Yellow Evo 5 can beat the GT40 around Rome
Wrong I used a Tommy kaira to beat it
Saxo kit car :p and lotus europa if i remember right
alien demio can beat it even easier
Fully upgraded Demio A-Spec.
91 Nissan Primera user
I really respect the amount of research and work that go into these videos. You drive every car in every event just to show how unfair the ai is. Thanks again!
Same here
Yeah i really loved that M12 vs Concept Viper race. Quality content!
jouna lehtiö Viperconcept is bae
Thanks! I appreciate it!
Welcome to the Salty Spittoon. How tough are ya?
How tough am I? I won every race on Gran Turismo 2 NTSC ver 1.0
Yeah, so?
Without any tuning
Uh, right this way, sorry to keep you waiting.
*without breaking the game's codes
😂😂
How'd you get International B license in your username?
Motherfuckin Animals channel support member
@Chief Deebo are u sure??
GT40 on Rome is the biggest cheater ever!
Vector M12 LM:Hold my beer.
*Vector M12 LM went to 30 Laps Trial Mountain*
*Brawhalla!*
@@ryanc00p3r3 GT40 LM hold MY beer 😂.
The R34 beating the hp limit by 50: *am i a joke to u*
@@ryanc00p3r3 ''GT40 Left the chat''
What impresses me about this is the fact that these AI cars have horsepower values at all. This must mean they drive themselves in a more player-like way than other similar games. For instance, the Toca Touring Car games have 2 set lines around the track, and with defined maximum and minimum speeds at various points.
You're right. Ai opponents in GT2 don't have a visible power output but because they're using power multipliers, you can easily calculate it. I also think that GT2 uses 2 ai racing lines, one for best trajectory, and one for passing, unless passing is programmed into the ai but i have no real proof so far.
Researching the track files is pretty tough due to the amount of things in one file lol
However what little info i have gathered is that the ai actually dynamically determines when to brake according to how sharp and how close a turn is, and that they know to slow down when they have little grip, and i've found that there is some setting for speed through corner, as well as corners possibly being bezier curves (that one needs to be researched more...)
Japanese devs vs Western devs...
23:29 it isnt cheating, its just takumi driving it
Yeah😅😅.with the Hardtop 4AGE Engine on it .
@@bhartishingole854 I agreed there .maybe he swapped with R Spec engine.
And at 43:59, it's not cheating as well, it has Keisuke as the AI.
is rubber banding opponents, because run much faster than you, and when you try it like the opponents, this don't work for players
Fujiwara baby
Ford GT40: You cannot defeat me.
Me: I know, but he can.
*Yellow Evo 5*
20:16 GT2 was released in '99. the evo 7 was released in 2001. the ai cheated by basically breaking the laws of time, allowing them to get a car that didn't exist then
edit: 21:03 1 bhp away from perfection
It's a evo 6 in the race
It sounds more like dicks d8
He meant Evo VI.
_Two devs at Polyphony_ :
"Hey man, I think we got an issue."
-"What is it?"
"Our AI is rather crap, they can't compete with the player all that well."
-"Tried rubber banding?"
"Ech, doesn't really work."
-"Just give the AI higher powered variants of some cars to balance it out and make it more challenging."
"I don't know, that will make quite a lot of cars exceed the BHR limit at some events, which is kinda cheating."
-"Just do it, trust me. People will complain it's too easy."
5:18 - It's funny these two cars race each other. Lotus/Chapman designed the car in a bid for the... Ford GT40 project!
14:14 - I think the Wiki says that if you switch languages from any in the PAL version to English, you can race both Opel and Vauxhall. Apparently even the completion percentage gets higher than it should.
14:34 - Probably the only race it would ever win(and still didn't against you), it was a crappy attempt at a GT2 car. Drove 3 times, retired 3 times, then got converted into it's successor. That means both the Vectors shown are cheaters too :P
10:11 - Doesn't it say VI(6) instead of VII(7) though?
23:10 - 24:16 - So we effectively have Initial D and Over Rev! cheaters here, Itsuki, Takumi and Ryoko Shino. The power advantage of the Eight-Six isn't wrong though, that's just Takumi as the AI ;)
30:45 - 31:23 - Great, now it's a bit of Sailor Moon(a never made Coupe version of the 2000 GT shows up there) abd Wangan Midnight.
35:53 - 36:10 - éX-Driver car now aswell.
41:15 - Doesn't that say '91 though?
Those Tommykairas seem to be the "popular" choice(alongside Clios, GT40s and Elises for example) by the devs as cheat car.
I appreciate the anime refences
"Great, now it's a bit of Sailor Moon(a never made Coupe version of the 2000 GT shows up there)" - The coupe was the normal production version. It's the convertible that is the rarity with only two being made for the 1967 Bond film "You Only Live Twice"
@@seantaylor2683 I thik I made a mistake as I meant the Convertible, as such an example showed up in the Sailor Moon anime.
@insidetodecide Yet the cheat makes them go faster on the straights than the corners, while Takumi "cheats" in corners :p
Special model? The Shuichi Shigeno version with the black hood?
@insidetodecide
Well, there's no question about it being a very obvious reference to Initial D - Shuichi Shigeno is the mangaka of Initial D(and MF Ghost too) :D
14:32 when you lied on your resume but you got the job anyway
Still the best car roster after 20 years.
*laugh in GT6 and MC3*
Gt4 wants to know your location.
@@mottdropsie GT4 wants to know your location, show you a car, then say good luck guessing which event you win this in and even better luck landing on the colour you want.
GT5's literally this roster and more
True story !
this video is the comfiest. if you could smell videos this one would smell like a coffee in a mug
Ideal watching for when you're in the bath.
If you see a GT40, bring a Yellow Lancer EVO V to terminate it
That's what I did
You say evo V, I'm say Nissan Primera 91 lol
12:50 i wouldnt call that a mis-match just a balls of steel moment
In Gran Turismo 4, there was an event where almost all of the AI cars were illegal, as in, if you try to drive them, the game wouldn’t let you, I think the rule was unmodified cars only, and you couldn’t use things like the Cadillac CIEN and the Volkswagen W12 Nardo, while the AI could.
I think you're talking about the Supercar Festival in the Professional Events Hall.
Yeah, that sounds right. :)
Anybody else remembers getting a "kiddie prize" in a license test? I remember the first time I got one I sat there wondering what the hell that was.
I did a little bit of research into the Kiddie Prize, if you're interested: ruclips.net/user/postUgzdtXabPyhUZ15KOdN4AaABCQ
@@MattJ155 no content
@@MattJ155 There is nothing on that channel you posted.
Ok so I think I said this before but I never had an issue with the Rome cup. I heard about the meme and decided to try to go on my game to see how hard it actually was and I was looking for the event and I couldn’t find it until I found out that I did do it with no issue so idk maybe I got lucky. I think there was a gt40 though.
It doesn't appear every time, and when it does it does not perform very well except on straightaways UNLESS ITS' RACING LINE IS INTERRUPTED BECAUSE IT FREAKS OUT IF THAT HAPPENS.
The Viper that keeps spinning in Laguna Seca must be driven by Romain Grosjean
That test was soo frustrating.
@? MEIN GOTT! MUSS DAS SEIN?! SO EIN BOCKMIST ABER AUCH!
Or Bottas
*cough* Sebastian Vettel *cough*
No, its driven by Mazespin
This happens in test drive 5 too!
You mean 6? God damn Elise and Cobra
@@Sapizanza Both!
I think all AI cars in TD5 act the same, and all top out at or above 197. Really makes the '71 'Cuda look like a good car.. lol
There was a guy that opened up the Test Drive 5 Files and found out all the AI cars using Nos. He released it as a gameshark code. So that's good.
Junior X The Inkling, Its so crazy seeing those cars just zip by in a matter of seconds. Costed me many victories, especially when police are involved...
(I just lost my very little (for once) wall of text by mistake, so i'm not gonna rewrite it)
Great video!
TL/DR of my previously lost comment is: The game only uses power multipliers and tires on all cars, except for the Test Course opponents that also have a full race transmission for speed.
That means the TK M30 is NA! Because it becomes a Turbo car when you upgrade it.
Also, the Logo and the Pirus both have a CVT so it's not alone. And I forget what my 3rd point was lol
Oh yeah, the GT40's a tough opponent because even though cars don't have proper tuing, it's still a race car at heart with decent suspension, grip and weight.
seems like the majority of cheating cars are just compensation for their supbar weight and grip
Power-to-weight ratio is the most important aspect. 1 HP to about 10 pounds, that's quite a bit...
One thing I was interested in knowing, but couldn't find out, was if there are any other cheating opponents in the Event Synthesizer / Generator. Do you have any info on this? :)
@@MattJ155 As far as i'm aware, even generator picks from existing opponent entries. If you pick a very fast car you have good chances of being pitted against Turbo N°1 opponents. I haven't see it load any race cars however. The even synth most likely if looking for a specific flag in order to choose cars it can and can't pick. We just don't know much about it yet.
However, you can be pitted against the VW Polo in it, despite that opponent being unused. If you drive a 100-115hp car you can meet it, because it has 2 entries made for the compact or K cup, i forget which.
Oh and at least on PAL, but both GT500 and GT500KR are used by opponents, depending on what race you're in. I forget which has what but i'm getting off-topic lol
The game also has LOADS of duplicate opponents (like, actual duplicate it could do without, 108 unused, 91 duplicates by my count, so about 199 opponents give or take 1 or 2. That's a lot of room for new opponents for modding~)
That poor Xantia... Great video as always!
Thanks!
I remember when that was amazing graphics and realism
Goner Those Days
Dude I love your content so much! GT2 is my absolute favourite and having these in depth videos about it is badass. Thank you for doing what you do!
Thank you for watching!
I actually like the hybrid cheats. It gives more challenge. It's just a way to compensate for the AI since they suck at corners and overtaking. Still better than the rubberbanding opponents of need for speed…
This has become a standard in racing games xD
This reminds me of one day where I was bored, so I picked up a GT40 Race Car, applied the best turbo kit available for the road car and proceeded to smoke the cheater in Rome. Gotta fight fire with more fire.
gotta fight fire with hell itself
The GT40 is Natural Aspiration...
Imagine putting a turbo to that CheaT40
@Resident Evil probably wasn't a metallica reference since it's a common phrase. But yea I always think of Metallica when I hear it.
@Resident Evil it's all good rock on dude! You oughta look up pessimist. They're a German thrash band. Pretty cool. Vocals take a bit to like but yea.
The Prius also has a CVT in the game
It was a single speed transmission not an actual cvt
@@ChoboUnjeon are sure ?
@@ChoboUnjeon i have never heard such a thing.
I've legit never known the Logo had a CVT too in this game, even after all these years, lol. The more you know (tm)
I miss the old circuits...
Me too...
R.I.P Old GT Circuits 1997 - IDK When They Were Removed
I love all this information what you bring us and I didn't know many of them, thanks Matt!
The Xantia driver was just a person coming home
from working overtime and he took a wrong turn.
In GT4, the Cadillac Cien and VW W12 Nardo concept can appear in the super car cup, which allows production cars. the Chien and Nardo are Concepts
EA: we have the most unfair racing games thanks to rubberbanding.
KazYam: Hold my Ricciardo's shoe champagne.
Edit: I guess I hould the typo for too long.
jangelelcangry IT’S A JOKE! 5 SECO-
Oh wait wrong person
No you just suck
"hould" ? Read a book for wonce
"wonce" ? Reed a book four ounce
@@tfwnoyandere "ounce"? Read a buck for unce
Didn't expect to watch all of this... subbed.
Thank you! Welcome to the community. :)
That trial mountain endurance race was a fantastic battle to watch. Very entertaining!
No wonder I have a hard time beating those cars when I was a kid, I remember that grueling Grand Valley endurance race. Thanks for touching this topic up.
0:38 - 0:55
*BK4:* "AAAAAAAAAAAA"
*_BK4 has left the chat_*
20:14 That's a Lancer Evo 6 actually
That's Raidillon actually.
I'm going to go play GT2 and whoop these cheaters' asses. I thought I was a cheater, always using tuning, upgrades, and other similar cheats. I guess the playing field is more level than I thought.
It seemed like every time I went against the Vector Twin Turbo it wouldn’t even be the best car it would still get beaten by the other ai if it was driving a GT40
I tend to forget numbers I hear two seconds later, and that was a lot of numbers... Well I still went through it all. Gud video is gud.
Thanks!
oh boy its 46 minutes of cheating cars in gt2
A really interesting look into the data behind GT2, very well presented. Good of you to actually film the hybrid cheaters with you driving the equivalent car, to see how OP the extra power turns out to be. Good on you for proving that the Vector M12 LM can be beaten, as well! Wouldn't have figured the Dodge Concept Car would be that good.
One thing that I don't think was addressed in the video or the description: How did you get the BHP values for the AI cars in the first place? There's no obvious display and I can't remember the AI telemetry for GT2 being that detailed.
Other than that, the information was interesting and presented neatly. It did get a bit wearing to introduce every car with the "Here's the event HP limit, here's the car's power, that's an increase of XXX HP" format - maybe use percentages, fractions, or hell, entire cars that are equivalent to the HP difference to mix things up a bit. But really, that's nitpicking. Thanks for the research, the video and the nostalgia trip!
No wonder I was always wondering why my Gt40 race car was way underpowered while I was raging against the Ford Gt40 race car on the straights.
HE'S THERE!
Gran Turismo 2
The Real Loophole Exploit Simulator
Great video! Getting excited for Grab Turismo 7?
I always wondered why the car wash cost $5000. Never thought to try it!
@MattJ155 What emulator are you using as it doesn't look good stretched like that. You should try RetroArch and the Beetle Hardware emulator as it stretches to widescreen while keeping the proportions of the cars correct.
You can enter a race and still go 5 HP above restrictions. Tune your car to the limit of the HP restriction for that race, enter race and then add the chip which is usually around 5 HP.
20:09 - That's an Evo VI (6) fella, a genuine mistake I know but just saying. (;
Ha, I know!
There is a 3rd curiosity in GT2 1.0 NTSC, if you go to special events, and highlight the Muscle Car Cup, you notice it has 3 licenses, which are A, IC, and IB licenses, but when you select the category, all races are listed in IA licenses only, this was solved in the 1.2 version, which is now only IA license (not sure if it was solved for 1.1, I don't own it)
I guess this is why the developers allowed you to have the Suzuki Escudo Pikes Peak for most of the races :D
It's an overall great video, I actually did learn some new things about GT2. I honestly never new the opponents had higher stats like in the Grand Touring Car Trophy, I just assumed they were modded to the hp limit. Though, that's probably because I cheated myself using the Daishin Silvia JGTC, hehe. A similar case with other events in GT2.
The only cheating opponent I found troublesome was the Ford GT40 on Rome in the Historic Car Cup, but an upgraded Datsun/Fairlady 240ZG can take care of that.
Thank you!
0:19 HE'S THERE!
They are like racing teams irl always finding ways to sneak power into the car and find loopholes in the rules. Or sneak “illegal” cars in the race.
So, why are we not considering these as percentage differences?
For example, a 125bhp car will break away a lot more in a 100bhp race than a 225bhp car will in a 200bhp race. 487bhp in a 279bhp race means that it accelerates about 74% more than the same player car does which actually is huge. Some of the seemingly much lower, absolute differences in the lower races actually approach this same percentage difference.
Should try Forza 7 for cheating opponents, this video would be like 2 hours long then.
I remembered doing the indy races on "expert" and getting top 500 in the world in lap times only to gap my opponents by less than half a second a lap. Turns out the indy cars had about 70hp more than I did.
The worst offender of all was the 3 hour endurance race with the Ford GT lemans car where the AI were stupidly fast on the straights.
Why do you keep saying brake horse power when the game is saying horse power
BHP (Brake horsepower) is the same in US as Crank/flywheel Horsepower. That is the power the engine makes at the crankshaft. Thats how all manufactures rate their engines. EU call it Brake because it's tested the same which is through a dyno brake. EU just say Brake instead of US saying Crank or Flywheel. WHP (wheel horsepower) is what power output is at the wheels. As there is power loss through the transmission and driveline.
the squiggly line before the quoted horsepower means "roughly" or "estimated", maybe that has something to do with it?
eg. ~400hp means roughly 400hp
Yes that's it
The Ford Taurus cheated by being allowed to even compete in an event called "Luxury Sedan."
Gran Turismo 4 - Opel Speedster race. Check that out. Back in the days it was really difficult to master it for me.
Sam Ski Yes that championship is a NIGHTMARE for most average players. Problem is the other Speedsters are MAXED OUT to the limit. Not only that the AI skill is above average and they race very skillfully. So it requires pure raw skill to beat them.
@@WarpPal I was like 10 or 11 years old. Tuned my Speedster to the max and asked myself what I did wrong.
Solution was for me best tires only sport suspension and spoiler with maxed power.
Took some time, thought at that time, that I´m too stupid for this.
I think this should be explained, because this was the hardest training for me.
Sam Ski The worst thing we do is beat ourselves up instead of thinking realistically based giving ourselves a break and encouraging ourselves if in fact we find through logical deduction we are in fact not skilled enough.
In this series case its an anomaly far beyond any other championship that requires high skill with minimal room to cheat within the mechanics and rules of the game itself(meaning no cheat device). I raced the series recently and I beat it with a moderate to high level of difficulty. You think your attempt was hard try getting max A Spec points in that series making your car just fast enough to win but not too fast to lower the max A Spec points available😨😖😤.
@@WarpPal Almost 15 years ago I just wanted to win this race :D 100% was my target, but at 97,5%~ my savegame was corrupted.
6:24 WHEN THE IMPOSTER IS SUS😳
To be honest to measure the race requirements just by the Horse Power was wrong because In the end it comes down to racing performance and if you do the weight reductions, tire modifications, etc... You can cruise trough the game pretty easily if you invest in racing performance rather than just sheer power.
How do you manage a massive oversteer in lightweight MR cars like europa (or lotuses, ZZ-S? etc)? I Struggled with them, but it totally usless in my hands because just totally want to spin, especially on the bankings. I test my cars on red rock and 320hp europa has worse best laptime than 250hp miata (that heavier) and much worse average laptime because of unstability. I cant fix this with ESC or TCS, less downforce on front also do car less cornering but it still unstable.
so - thats - how you pronounce RUF, i've been saying "ruff"
G etting
T hrough the maximum power limit
2
never played GT coz I was only had PC, so I am curious how did you manage to get all the data of oponnent cars?
(footnotes taken as video was watched)
0:20 HEY! GUESS WHAT!? IT'S RANDOMIZED BEFORE THE RACE BEGINS, BUT AFTER YOU CHOOSE TO START THE RACE! How do I know this? It's been dug up by data miners. It was an attempt at some sort of opponent randomizer that would keep players on their toes. It only half-worked.
0:46 The power limit is 300 (something like this); the GT40 is not tuned but still has a lot of power-to-weight, so it definitely seems OP but it isn't. There are at least a hundred cars that could easily beat it. I know; I've never lost in that event with or without the GT40 as an AI opponent.
0:52 It says 295; it's 300 (rounded up to nearest ten/hundred), and the GT40's actual BHP is 290, not 305 which is maximum horsepower at about 6,600 RPM. All GT games account for the lower HP value, not the maximum. Power to weight ratio? High. Unbeatable? Nope, nope, nope. Oh, and yes, you can enter your own GT40 if you so choose. I don't recommend it; it's too powerful and too much weight on the back tires for a constrained city track.
1:22 No, it looks like that's the case, but it is not. Cars that are of the same model driven by AI have programming bugs in that some weird anomaly causes the game to give the AI a boost in power, which gives some negligible increases in overall performance. It only happens in some instances, and it's akin to the logic freaking out rather than some cheating mechanism. Doesn't change that it's frustrating...(it most certainly is)
1:50 THE ACTUAL LIMIT IS 400 HP. Always round those numbers up to the nearest ten/hundred for the ACTUAL LIMIT. Also, in the car parts and settings menu, this higher limit is confirmed and accurate. CHECK AND SEE IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME.
2:04 Nope, that would be six over, if it were looking for the maximum HP. The minimum HP is about 380. Also, (my experience) that fucker comes in LAST every time I race that event. I wonder why...
2:22 Try 376. That's the minimum. It's also faster than the Supra and usually finishes on my tail (second).
2:38 The limit is 500. None of the AI cars push more than 450-475 in my experience. IT'S AN EASY 20,000.
2:50 480 HP.
3:16 495 HP. Below by 5.
3:40 Nope, only outputs a max of 490. Minimum is 470. I have no trouble racing against this one.
3:54 Turbo Boosted 515 Maximum. Minimum is 460. Again, always finishes LAST.
4:20 That limit is 300. The GT40 outputs a minimum of 290. It's the 1969 model. OP, sure. Frustrating? For some, yes, for me, no because it's too easy to make the AI driver crash into walls by interrupting its' racing line.
(I'm not kidding-it's a surefire win)
4:52 POWER-TO-WEIGHT RATIO IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU DIDN'T MENTION.
5:06 O.o (sees most of the AI slamming into every single damn wall) Sure, if ya say so, lolz
5:24 1969 Camaro. Later, Ford! (yeah I use this one)
5:30 The limit is 400. The GT40 is less of a challenge here as it is not tuned up for the race. It's another one where the challenge lies in keeping the opponents off their racing line, but the GT40 rarely finishes in the top three here.
5:42 That car has a stock HP of 280. In this race, it's tuned to have a maximum output of 365, minimum 350. The driver always has issues with oversteer. e.e
5:48 No, that's what the game tells you in Arcade Mode, but it's incorrect. It was incorrect in GT1 as well.
6:06 The car weighs almost 4,000 pounds stock. The power-to-weight ratio. It's good for the quarter-mile.
6:18 The limit is 600.
6:30 Turbo Boosted to 620 maximum. It outputs a minimum of 580, and is hardly a challenge. It has turbo lag in spades and the driver tends to veer into the SAND a lot...
6:52 The AI were not programmed to use THE DAMN HANDBRAKE. They didn't get that right until GT4 (and not even then because there are instances where the AI still manages a big pile of crap).
7:50 I have this version. I also have the revision. Fun Fact: the code for a five thousand credit car wash is still in the game, just 'commented out'. This 'error' persisted from GT1, where the cost was fifty but the code for five thousand was still there and could even be triggered by a glitch. FTR, it was going to be five thousand credits but that was back when it was car maintenance which would of included oil, fuel and tires, only one of those features made it into the final release, and only for a few races. Car maintenance wasn't a thing until GT3 or 2000 (I have yet to play the latter so I am not sure).
8:06 That's Mark Martin's number from the early to late nineties. Great behind the wheel, socially inept otherwise (it is what it is-I can relate to a fashion).
8:14 It was removed at Mark's request, actually.
8:56 A fine example of unoptimized code. Actually, they only did it this way because at the time, the list was fourteen different vehicles, and all of the races were way different, and none of them had power limits (there also was only four races and they were all fifty laps at one of the four most 'technical' circuits-Rome, Laguna Seca, SS R5, and get this, High Speed Ring Reverse). They forgot to change this when redoing all the races.
10:18 The limit is 600, but ALL ENDURANCE RACES WITH LIMITS ATTACHED TO THEM WILL ON OCCASION NOT CHECK FOR THIS (it happens to me like maybe once in twenty times). Why the check is not performed every time is not something I know, but all the same, it means that one could enter the Esukudo into the 30 Laps at Trial Mountain, though that would be pointless.
11:12 The car in question has a power-to-weight ratio akin to the GT40. 320 HP, about 2,600 pounds.
11:42 One more thing the AI is not programmed to do is coast. Coast and handbrake. Yeah. I haven't seen this done properly in any racing sim I've played yet. :shrug:
13:58 The code for this car exists in all versions; it is 'commented out' in non-PAL versions due to Opel and Vauxhall being competing licensees at the time (this came to an end around the end of 2000 or so). NTSC releases had Opel cars instead of Vauxhall. A pity because I like Vauxhall cars just that much more...
14:32 THIS IS A GLITCH AND IT ONLY HAS LESS THAN 0.325% CHANCE OF OCCURING. Yes, one damn time I saw this, but it is still beatable because the car has super soft compound tires and pits in every six to nine laps. It also suffers from AI freak out if you interrupt its' racing line (I didn't even do this on purpose-next thing I knew it slammed into the wall and was there for ten seconds). It finished in fifth. The only reason it didn't finish in sixth was because the trailing pack racer was in the pits. ON THE LAST LAP. xD
20:52 It's a programming error as aforementioned. The logic is saying 'Uh oh, we have duplicate cars, what do we do, DAMMIT MIKE WHAT DO WE DO.'
27:36 This is an example of one car having two different versions in the code, and both exist despite only one being available to the player. This is a bug that was never addressed or fixed.
30:34 That's because the AI Mustang has in fact the 2000 model specs. The code for this being available to the player was 'commented out' but was left alone by mistake for the AI.
31:38 You're supposed to be able to get 426 maximum HP with the Taurus. What happened, I dunno.
34:26 The MS Elise has some bad code in it that is fixed for the AI.
42:32 Noting here that the specs given for every Spoon Motors car in every GT game they can be found in are completely and thoroughly inaccurate, and this stirred Spoon's ire something fierce...
42:50 Fun Fact: The actual fully-tuned HP of the Spoon Civic v1 is 600 HP.
43:20 I've run into the weirdness of performance checks in NA and Turbo cups that if one car has both sets of parts, it can enter either one with either set installed. It doesn't always work but I give it a one in eight chance, and those are good odds...lol
44:40 ALL THE TRD CARS IN GT2 ARE BROKEN FOR THE PLAYER. This persists from GT1.
All these 'cheats' are 99% bugs with the code. As with GT1, this game was released a broken mess that worked just barely at all, and is easily broken with glitches akin to Final Fantasy VII and VIII. Yeah, that bad; multi-disc games are the easiest to have lots and lots of bugs. They also mucked up things by removing Drag Racing.
But yeah, the performance limits are deceiving, and the settings and parts menus will confirm this. A car with 599 HP will be able to enter a race with 591 HP as the limit because it is 600 instead. Why they ended up doing this rounding up thing, or if it was accidentally done and never addressed, I have no idea.
Okay, there's a lot to go through, and a few questions I have... so. Let's go lol
0:46 Power limit is indeed 300... PS.
0:52 300PS limit again, but you're wrong on the GT40's power output. It's about 309-310PS, which makes it 305HP. PS x 0.986 = HP, HP x 1.014 = PS (there's a roughly 1.4% difference between the 2 units). "All GT games account for the lower HP value, not the maximum" Could explain what you mean? And no, you cannot enter with a GT40 (or show me the source please). The game checks your car's PS output against the power restriction, there is no way you'll be able to enter if it determines you have more than the maximum authorized.
1:22 "No, it looks like that's the case, but it is not. Cars that are of the same model driven by AI have programming bugs in that some weird anomaly causes the game to give the AI a boost in power, which gives some negligible increases in overall performance." Wrong. The GT40 shown at this moment is one that's got more power than the player's car, because PD made an opponent entry with a power multiplier of 130%, making it 639HP. It's used in all GT All Stars events. I suggest you go and have a look at this page that shows a *lot* of datamined data from a speedrunner called Adeyblue. gt2.airesoft.co.uk/usa/races.html#GTA0001
1:50 400PS yup, however, the parts and settings menu is misrepresentative. It actually shows your car's PS output, despite it saying HP. That is why power levels there are always higher than in your garage.
2:04 406HP, so 411-412PS is higher than 400PS, so it's cheating. Again, please explain what you mean by "minimum HP".
2:22 same as above.
2:38 & 2:50 500PS (yes i'm gonna list all of them :p), 498HP = ~505PS. Experience doesn't mean they don't make that much power. All of GT2's opponents are easily beatable because they don't have anything else than power multipliers and tires. Their weight is stock, transmission is stock (except Turbo's Test Course), brakes etc are stock, so they seem slower (and are) than what they could be.
3:16 500PS, 509HP = 516PS, false check again.
3:40 501HP = 508PS, same thing as above.
3:54 523hp = 530ps. Way too high. Power to weight stil sucks, like any other opponent that's not a GT40 & Race Car.
4:20 (lol) see 0:52 comment.
4:52 you're right, it is important, but the reason why the GT40 is that much faster, is because it's got race suspension, virtually race car base grip levels (that affects their cornering speed), race-quality clutch and brakes. It's virtually a slow race car with less downforce.
5:30 400Ps, also the GT40 is indeed not much better at 345hp. However...
5:42 ...the Corvette C2 427, despite being bad, is still making 433HP, which is its stock HP output, not 280 (you may have forgotten how GT1 and 2 had the better of the C2 Corvettes, before they used the 250hp one in later games)
5:48 again, Corvette 427 Stingray. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_(C2) "427 in³ Big-Block Tri-Power V8" between 400 and 435hp (435hp version used)
6:18 600PS, yup.
6:30 Stock HP @634, the car has a 1.0 multiplier. it's bone stock, and has a bad transmission x)
6:52 indeed, as far as i'm aware, every GT until at least GT6 uses neutral to rev out their engines, which is why you can see them creeping while launching, and also why the GT2 reverse glitch exists, the car is trying to rev, but it's rolling back, so it brakes, and revs fall, repeat. Non use the handbrake ever.
7:50 hmm i didn't know that. Very interesting. Was the executable ever decompiled somehow to know this? I don't know if it can be understood from looking at the hexadecimal data :c (that would be very powerful for modding). I also wasn't aware of GT2 ever featuring that many maintenance stuff o.O, however 5000 might be a Yen value, like GT uses for the japanese versions of the games. 5000yen is about 45 us dollars (current exchange rate) so it's most likely this reason for the high price. GT3's hidden Skyline R34 M-spec is 100 000 000 cr iirc, which makes it 1M western credits for the same reason (but they didn't accomodate so it's 100M oof).
8:14 huh, that's interesting to know
8:56 source please?
10:18 600PS. Also unless that's a US 1.0 specific glitch, no, entering a race with more HP than allowed can't happen.
13:58 actually, Vauxhall cars are simply flagged out. Car structures have a region flag, while race events can have regional filters. You'll never see Acura opponents on PAL, despite every opponent entry for them existing on there, and vice versa, Honda for US versions for the same reason. VX only appears on PAL-E, while French, Spanish, German, and Italian all get Opel variants. (Also applies to Esso/Exxon cars)
14:32 no, it's not a glitch, it's an actual mistake, just like how Matt described it. Indexes are messed up in USA especially, but in PAL as well (the 306 remains, despite every endurance events being fixed). Each opponent entry has an index value attached to it, events have index slots, 16 of them to be exact. And because the index was altered, when rebuilding their game, PD overlooked the race event entries most likely, and so this happened.
20:52 Nope. Race 2's Starlet 82 (actually a 78) has a 347% power increase from 70hp to 242. It's genuinely cheating. The 1987 Starlet has a 243% increase, making it go from 99 to 241hp. In fact, that 347% increase is the biggest AI power multiplier in the whole game. Also, @MattJ155, it has stock gears, so I don't know about the top speed thing.
27:36 No again. The GT40 Race Car has a 120% increase from 492 to 589hp. there are multiple GT40 Race Car entries in the game. 3, in fact. ID 572 with 130%, ID 1173 with 120%, and ID 1206 with 100% power multiplier, making it actually stock. Opponent entries =/= what the player can buy. They can cheat, we can't.
30:34 When in 2000 did Ford produce a 490 hp Mustang? The Cobra R featured in GT3 is 390. This one's a Mustang Cobra non-R, which is rated at 320hp irl, 318hp in the game. I don't know where you got that commented out part from, but no, the Mustang Cobra only has 3 stages of NA tuning, al of which are available to the player. AI opponents only use power multipliers, so they can do anyhing, including having more power than what's available for the player. This particular entry has a 154% increase, and goes from 318hp to 490hp. Still heavy and all stock parts though, except for Medium tires.
31:38 source? The Taurus doesn't have any hidden parts so...
34:26 again, source? Power multipliers can do aything to any car. The MS Elise has no hidden parts, so why this claim?
42:32 hah, i didn't know that one. But i wonder why PD would make up such specs, and especially, never fix it for all the series?
42:50 whoa
43:20 False. The game prevents you from entering with a nice screen saying "This is for cars with superchargers / turbos. You cannot enter." for the NA cup (tested with a AE86 Levin with turbo installed and na bought) and a "This is for naturally-aspirated cars. you cannot enter." screen for the turbo cup (with na installed). Yes, they are swapped. I'm on PAL. Unless it's again a US 1.0 specific bug.
44:40 There are no TRD cars apart from the 3000GT in GT1, and it's no broken, it has the specs given to the 1994-95 Supra RZ, if that's what you meant by broken.
Wrong again, not bug with any code, the opponent entries are made that way, the TRD2000GT has a 236% increase from 266 to 628hp.
And finally, back to my 1:50 comment, you're wrong. Parts and settings display the PS value with hp attached, you cannot enter a race with a garage power higher than the event displayed power limit. If your car makes 593hp, it's above 591hp. 593hp is 601PS, which itself is above 600PS. Both checks fail therefore you can't enter, period. If your car's output in the parts and settings menu says 599hp, then your garage hp is 590hp, which fits under the rule and you can enter. Once again, PS x 0.986 for HP, HP x 1.014 for PS.
This rumour that cars with more hp than the displayed limit can enter is a total misinformation coming from a mistake in the parts and settings menu that displays "hp"
Phew! That took a while. First saw this comment at 2.45 am on my phone, but i couldn't nitpick then x)
@@submaniac93 'Commented out' refers to code that is disabled by using a disabling symbol (in Ruby it is #), but not all coding uses the same terminology.
So, it tells the player one measurement and uses another measurement internally. Good job Polyphony; way to mislead people.
Sources: Gaming magazines long out of print, good luck finding them (it was GamePro or something like that).
I only ran across that opponent one time in the Trial Mountain Endurance, and mayhaps I was lucky that they chose to pit so often, I dunno. I'd have to find my 1.0 copy and try it again at some point.
Multipliers? Ahn?
Yeah, Spoon Sports, they don't fuck around when it comes to their tuning.
Okay. When it comes to horsepower/PS/kW, the measurement you're given is the maximum output; said output is measured at peak RPM, as is torque. You don't have that much power constantly, it is a range, between idling and peak, though usually the range is measured from initial acceleration to peak. The minimum is measured at about two to three thousand RPM, or one-third the red-line RPM, whichever is lower.
(this is what I remember about how this is measured on a dyno-it's been some time since then)
@@AmyraCarter (minimum power) Ah i see! Yeah it makes sense now. But you're giving too much credit to PD if you think they fitted that into their formulas haha.
As for multipliers yeah, every opponent car has a byte or 2 (probably 2 so that they can actually make a car 347% as a byte would be limited to 255) tha are a multiplier. It takes whatever the car's current output is, including upgrades and does what it's named. so if a car is 100hp, a power multiplier of 200% (100% is 1.0x power) would make the car 200hp. Simple as that. The problem is that PD used this for every opponent in GT2. There are none that are properly tuned.
The Turbo Cup's opponents on Tes Course are the only cars to have a transmission upgrade,for higher top speed. That's a massive wastes opportunity that they couldn't take advantage of due to the short dev time.
Sucks for the sources, but they were most likly misinformed or hadn't gotten the correct info on some things. That's a rip.
and yeah, I knew a little of wat a ciommented out thing was in code. A friend of mine who's a programmer told me that even if soemthign had been commented out, it would've been ignored by the compiler upon building the game, so he doesn't think there could be any traces of the mistake in code for the car wash price.
@@submaniac93 Multipliers are for RPG stats, not this. Still...this was rushed out, and I see that many corners were cut (this has been the case apparently for every release hence why Prologues exist from GT3 onward). Code and code errors are kept from game to game, as are game assets like sounds and sometimes music even. I know that this is definitely so for Tourist Trophy...
It was the only info I had, and I don't remember it all either, just some of what was discussed.
Yeah, but the thing is, ignored or not, it still showed up because that portion of it is a static image. This was not so in GT1 (there was only the black background for a static image-everything else was a text/graphical object). They used a lot of static images in GT2 because those didn't take up as much space. They chose not bother with changing this, or hadn't the time, or what have ya.
They also never make mistakes usually. Rubber banding like mad. GT2 AI is terrible nowadays. It's like all the cars stay together as a pack rather than being spread out like later games. It's no surprise they use cheating cars lol.
*koff koff* Gran Turismo All Stars Red Rock Valley *koff koff*
Actually depends, usually there's 1-2 cars that break away from the pack that are faster than the others. But that's about it and they generally are too slow. I lapped them as a kid and I'm a far better driver now than I was then. I struggled with getting all golds at a kid. It only took me 3-4 hours to do it recently lol
@@Delimon007 it's all fine and dandy til you hit a wall. Then even slow cars catch up my GT One Road Car.
I remember a AI car that crashed in Laguna seca, and trying to get out of there, but all he ended up doing was reversing and then ramming the wall the whole race long at the S turn going downhill
The horsepower statement in this video is incorrect.
It is not a horsepower 'limit'.
In the UI you can see for example ~246hp.
The "~" sign means "Approximately".
So, ~246hp can be somewhere around that number of hp.
Yes it's true that the sign means approximately, however if you try to enter a car that is even one BHP over the limit, then you cannot enter. Therefore only the AI has this advantage.
Wait a bit, So there's only 5 racers in the Tahiti road endurance or does it get replaced?
That explains why I struggled against many cars on 80s races
Well, you get a ridiculously good car that changes the game if you win the last race. I like that it was a challenge
when you're too good you start calling your opponents *T R A F F I C*
I remember I defeated the m12 LM quite easy with dodge neon. using the shortcut near the end of the circuit, I was happy I thought I will win any secret car but turned out it's the same Denso Sard Supra.
What happend with the hks 180 in the test curse turbo with 1011 bhp ??
I knew something was off with gt40 race car on GT All star event, especially in Red rock, where it keeps up with toyota gt one.
Hybrid cheats aren't really noticable if you use OP cars for the HP, e.g. using race cars or road version of race cars (gt40, r390 gt1, toyota gt one, etc).
I remember there was an event at super speedway where a Mazda protege wagon would always gap me on the last turn. I used a tuned up Aston db5 and then a stock viper rt/10. Once I modded the viper I could beat it. But still....
How are you able to use the Dodge concept car with that power limit? I thought it had 500ish
Imagine finding yourself chilling in sunday cup, and you see ai pikes peak escudo
I won everything with that one car, it was like a cheat but in the form of a powerful turbo car.......
Meanwhile at 50 laps all night.
Driver: Uh Guys... I thought i'll be driving the Vector M12 LM, but this dosen't look very fast to me?
Pit crew: [looking at the Citroen Xantia in silent]
Team Manager: Ugh... This is why we should'nt have a sponsorship deal with the U.P.S.
Driver: •____• .....
Thank you! This was very interesting. I had no idea ☺ The following is a major digression, my apologies.
I really like the behind car camera in the early GT games. Up to GT3. In GT4 the camera began to get thighter attached to the cars movement. In GT5 it was horrible - every turn was dizzying and awkward. Haven't played GT6 so I can't comment on that one.
Luckily in GT SPORT you can adjust this! I was so happy when I found out. It is so much easier to tackle the racingline when I set the parameter to zero. Much like we see here in this video. Personally I think Forza Motorsport series has the near perfect follow car camera.
Sorry for ranting, but this has been important to me as I love Gran Turismo! This has been discussed over the years in several forums. I really hope Polyphony implement and develop the camera view options in coming GT games. Thank you for your time and attention. May your journey serve you well ☺
Shad0wplay Heres the cool thing about GT2 regarding cameras. If you go into the options menu, there are settings that allow you to change the position of the caméra relative to the car when it turns. In addition to the camera position(driver, chase1, chase2) there is chase view type(1 and 2) and view angle(narrow, standard, and wide). You can fix the camera behind the car like in GT4 or allow the car to pivot loosely in front of the chase camera like in GT3. You choose what you want.
But in future Gran Turismo games(disregarding Sport since I havent played that yet) these options are removed and the viee type is set permanently for the player, shame really.
Glad I'm not the only one here who thought GT5's camera was stiff; GT6 seems to be just as stiff from my experience.
More games need an adjustable chase cam, I remember the original Project Gotham Racing game having this.
Thanks for commenting; I enjoyed reading that. :)
While emulating, how do i get the arcade disc and simulation disc to sync to unlock the stuff in the arcade disc
I have a question on "NTSC 1.0" with save file overlap and broken cars?
So the lesson of the day is that GT40s and their drivers are cheating scumbags! :U
Awesome video, I didn't imagined GT2 had so many cheaters, though there were always something that put me off about the cars they drive. This also explains how the RX-7 A-Spec and the Mine's Evo ocassionally smokes the HKS drag cars on the Test Course race sometimes.
Cyoot profile pic X3
Thanks!
DON'T SKIP TO 06:24
WORST MISTAKE OF MY LIFE!
amogus
A far worse culprit is the Ridge Racer series, where no matter how good you are you will never be able to pass certain cars until a particular part of the race.
When you found confirmation to theories you had over a decade ago. I knew i wasn't crazy...
I think my best accomplishment was beating the M12 with an S2k
6:23 sus
Can you beat M12 with Rally mini? It's my weapon of choice for its fair acceleration and grip even with hard racing tyres