His needs was a meal. This is why Satan rules these churches because thier a business. Its for pay, not compensation but pay. So,we're gonna start firing these pastors since its for pay.
@@creativeroom365 thats the old testament. Either your under the law, or your under grace. The old testament is the old covenant. The new is the Law of Christ. You have to choose. Read galatians 2,3,4,5 6. Follow any of the law you have fallen from grace.
@@sonoftheday8249 then you’re saying that churches shouldn’t read any Old Testament? If church can ask for tithing and that was in Old Testament then what you’re talking about?
I been playing in church for about 5 years and work a job 60+ hours a week. Its a real sacrifice taking time out of my day and away from my family to practice and get better. If i was compensated I could cut back working so much and spend more time on the keys and get better. It seems that my church is no okay with paying the musicians. Normally my schedule is work at 4am to 430pm and play at church Tuesday, Thursday and twice on Sundays. I love God and my church. I do it because I love God and his people. Its a tough rode too walk.
I agree with your church. Listen brother when these men stand before our Lord,he will tell them "YOU'VE BEEN PAID ALREADY" Dont let that be you. Scarface for our Lord as you been doing he will repay.
Will he tell the electrician the same message as the musician what about the members who only sit in the pew. Will he say these musician actually labor more than 90% of my church every musician can clean the church and pass out flyers and say let the lord use u and many can preach too it's. Very interesting that the one thing that all the other members can't do gets so condemn and is such a topic... 2nd your investing in your musician not paying them church invest in its members and building and God.
@@goodday104 here is a good question why is a church willing to pay a visiting pastor who comes for a revival which is one week. But have a problem with paying a member who gives his labor 52 weeks to the church the pastors are not jesus charity should start at home it takes time to be even decent on the organ it is way harder than being a plumber and an electrician for the sound and commitment to the church. U can train a plumber in 2 weeks no way u can train anyone to give u sunday's best performances on an hammond organ n 2 weeks.. be blessed
Playing off key will drive members away sounding a hot mess and that's not the musicians speaking this it's the church attendance comparison between levels of pastoring and musicianship... The word keeps you. Keep humble love the lord enjoy life bless others and always be your for you are the one who is judge. And if your heart is right and u belong to God nothing else matters
Thank you Terrence for speaking up on behalf the Techs and Engineer ls that are behind the scenes. They definitely need to get paid and also have the necessary equipment to do the best job possible to assist the music/worship team!
*I can't believe we are still having this discussion.* It's either you want men and women of God and are professional or a bunch of volunteers who are less skilled. It's that simple.
What makes a musician “professional”? Just bc you are a volunteer doesn’t mean you are less skilled. it could just mean the person heart is I want to give what was given to me.
@@1kaveena I meant to say as a general rule of thumb. Exceptions are never the rule. I am myself am a professional musician and I volunteer for stuff quite frequently.
There are churches that utilize musicians you see touring the world as volunteers, the only difference is, the church is also a place for them to network and receive other opportunities by those who may attend the church or work at the church. Sad to say, store front churches aren't providing opportunities of this magnitude.
There is absolutely no way that we could do this for free. For one too much is required of us as far as our time, effort, and talent, for two we’re often mistreated, and thirdly the requests, complaints, and expectations are excessive a lot of times.
This is quite a good indepth discussion,I'm a muso and at the Church I was at we all used IEs and had an ap on our phones which gave us all access to the main desk so each person could adjust what they were receiving in their own IEs,it was like a full mini sound desk which was brilliant and worked really well.Having no stage foldback speakers really cleared up the stage which made it look so much better.
Good Convo. Our musician have a good relationship with my pastor. My pastor is very personable and talks to him mostly every Sunday. We're a small church. Our musican has been with us over 15yrs and travels an 1hr away to play for us so community is very important. We do have budget as well set a side for music ministry/salaries and it is a must like you said.
No one is asking the question, "should choir members get paid along with the musicians?" They too show up for rehearsals, show up on Sunday mornings and minister through song using their gifts. Some choir members have taken professional singing lessons to enhance their gifts just as some musicians have taken professional courses to enhance their gifts. Who's cut'en their checks? Now if the musicians are being hired to play for a church, then they should ABSOLUTELY get paid! But if they're members of that church just as the choir members are, then NO ma'am NO sir they should NOT get paid. And let's be mindful of the other ministries in the church were others aren't being paid.
Actually!! There are other people who are taking the time in perfecting whatever lane they are in. Should everyone one get paid now?? If I’m a minister I have to study I may even go to school. I’m taking time out to be better. But if GOD called me and or gave me this gift I have to give my gift to benefit the body of believers. I’m a believer that God will bless the sacrifice
All points are valid few things missing there are a million choir members not a million organist to give the services required other wise every church would have the best organist..... No way 1 member out of 10 singers can do what one great organist does sunday in sunday out....
Really guys, thats the problem, many churches don't know what direction that they want to go. So, to have a conversation with musicians about the kind of church they want to have - wont happen. I grew in a church that didn't have any musicians, when I expressed that I wanted to play music in church - they got behind me - prayed for me and the pastor said, didn't we pray for you to play - why aren't you playing - there's the piano ain't nobody on it - go play! It was horrible, my church suffered with me for years. My mother played a major part in my music development - she paid for the lessons out of the grocery money. The church definitely was the major part of my spiriual development. So with that, what I have to offer any church is both those aspects if I command money for that - yes I should be paid. There is a lot more that I could say but, I'll stop right there.
The sad part about this topic is that the church never asks should hey have to pay any other service provider tbh it is biblical to pay your musicians the tithes as supposed to go to the levites so if you dont want to pay the levites then you really shouldnt be asking for or accepting the tithe it was never intended to pay your light bills
@@shanneemars4351 the people’s jobs also consisted of herding cattle and tilling the ground so whats your point? Is it that people aren’t levites because they don’t maintain cities because then i can say you aren’t a congregant because you don’t raise cattle its a dumb point to make if that is your point
Good discussion, however THE WORD above all is the most important in the context that after the music, singing, dancing and emotional aspects of a worship service ends, it's the rightly divided word of God that is going to save and keep you!
My sister i totally agree with you, and that word is not the bible its Jesus Christ. People got this thing mixed up. The Bible is The Holy Scriptures. The word of God is his Son in whom all the words of God dwell. Sister I would like for you to find and read the holy scriptures. In this book has 80 books not 66. In it is the 14 books removed by the catholic church and in will explain a lot more.
WHY IS THIS EVEN A QUESTION??? Should someone who works at a grocery store "for the glory of god" get paid, lol? I hate that we as the church are so horrible with money and paying ppl in excellence. We are apart of the Kingdom of God but the ppl in the world are more excellent in the way they pay their workers... We Gotta Do Better yall!!!
Your mixing business gig and church, money was mention a lot in the bible never you find a verse that can apply in to what your saying,, going to church today is becoming a "feel good" show music event with lights and smoke machines, this is something new that just became super important
If I were a musician at some of these churches, i wouldn't, they don't respect musicians, they either brag or use most of us for their selfish gain, that's why you see musicians slowly leaving these churches today and pewers being empty because of it. Blame it on ya'll selves and and have some answers for God.
They should be given a basic stipend so they can be on the staff of the church and employed by the church . Not just hirelings coming in and doing the job , getting paid and moving on to the next job . Being part of a worship service is not a job
You go to school to earn a degree in your field so you can make a living for yourself and your family. Music is a field, you earn your degree, you should be compensated. If you don’t agree and don’t want to pay, have service without it. Simple as that. There are other avenues for musicians to get paid. The so called church always wants something for free.
Than the pastor should only be volunteer also. For the kingdom or nothing after all. Also, usher do not have to show up for rehearsals and you don’t have to spend years honing in on the craft of ushering, or clean, or cook. This also means that any professional service should only if ever volunteer at the church... if the church needs to call a plumber, better find one willing to volunteer their services for it is for the Lord... need an attorney to represent the church in court if someone warts to sue for slipping on the ice in the parking lot? That attorney ought to be a volunteer since this is for the house of the Lord.
The musicians first and foremost is responsible for his or her own spiritual growth in Christ, because the word says workout your OWN soul salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord. However, if the musician is a hireling with the intent not to be discipled by the church they play for than that's between them and God. If someone renders there time and service or profession they should be payed period or the organization stands in judgement for withholding good to whom good is due when it was in their power to act on it. Playing in the church is one of the oldest professions in the bible look up the Tabernacle of David ..under his leadership all the musicians where paid and taken care of. The real issue is not whether or not musicians should be payed the real issue is that leaders want these musicians to enhance the experience of their organizations but won't let go of a welfare mentality.
Seeing that cogic is a business, before saving souls. It would make sense considering what the church has deteriorated to. My early life , coming from a pentecostal backings, and teachings. People performed their gift of God, as far as praise and worship, they would never consider being paid. Seeing that Jesus came to serve 🙏, not get served, I believe this conversation is a black-eye for the church, and won't entertain listening to this any further
Yes because most musicians aren't members of the church, yet pastors that are sent by God should not be paid, 2nd Corinthians chapter 2 verse 17 explains but musicians, custodians and lawn maintenance yes
PASTORS MOST DEFINITELY SHOULD BE PAID AND THAT’S BIBLE. They feed us spiritual things and they are suppose to eat of our carnal things. That means MONEY.
What is more important Music or the word ? 6:12 that question is insane Lol... If i use your same bible logic well, did Jesus carry a guitar and was singing to people, did he performed his ministry with a any music group ? yes music is important but what was said on that question is moronic
Are the musicians saved? Are the musicians apart of the church they play? Does the musicians church hop? It depends… if other people are on salary then musicians shouldn’t be “excluded” from being paid. Period. Will the musicians follow the same rules and guidelines like other musicians? Are they hirelings? They are answer if you want quality but not asking if they are ministers. Where is God in this conversation? Musicians and pastors are pimping the church. Filling the seats with entertainment. “A modern church” or “Gods church? God wasn’t welcome into this conversation. Did Jesus have high value in healing? How much did Jesus charge for healing? How much did God charge us for salvation?
Since you mentioned tithing, it was for certain people- JEWS, for a different time, old testament. Has no bearing on anyone walking and breathing today. I believe sanctification has lost its priority as part of the church. The Bible says, come from among them. Meaning, you should be different than the world 🌎 Which has become hard to distinguish the two. I come from the old COGIC area
Most of musicians are players and not prayers. They love to play their instruments more than they love to pray. The place where most musicians are failing are in their prayer life.
The musicians have the churches held hostage. Music brings in the funds and that's all most pastors care about. Musicians are not saved-most of the time. They should be taught that music is one of the most powerful weapons that the church Should Have!!! Casting out demons? How- when the musician just left the club. Start over and only pay musicians who are a part of the ministry and is saved. If they want a JOB ONLY then go secular. We are a luke- warm greedy people. It goes far beyond the musician. Go back to the alter and get saved FOR REAL !!!!
For sure this comment is a HUGE part of the issue. In essence gifts can be used in any spectrum. I play for churches, I’m a worship pastor, and I also sing/play in other genres of music. Classical, being the main one. Do I need to go back to the “altar” because I perform a Mozart piece? No. Or if I happen to sing a wedding and perform a song by Luther Vandross. From elementary school through college I was trained and groomed to do what I’m doing now. I expect compensation for that. Even the church I serve at I was sought after because of the skill AND demonstration of my anointing to exhort.
Just like the Pastors should have a job and not get paid by the church then musicians should not get paid. True ministry isn't looking for a pay check. Get a job like the rest of us. We all have gifts and talents and don't get paid for it so why are you so special? Stop looking to get paid if you are truly doing ministry. So tired of these so called "Ministers" of music expecting a pay check. If I choose to gift you with money for playing then so be it. If I don't then so be it. If you want to get paid for playing, make an album or have a concert. Just don't equate getting paid to play for ministry. Ministry is free. If Christ looked for a paycheck every time He gave a sermon, God help us.
Tell me where in the Bible ppl used their gifts and weren’t paid in some form! In the Bible days ppl were hosted fruits , food etc but obviously in the year 2021 those things aren’t used to live off therefore it would be money. Stop using god as an excuse to be indecent
You are right. One of the men said, "In 2021 a different expectation is required" This type thinking is wide spread and reflects what we see in majority of churches - a conglomerate enterprise that celabrate sensationalism. It may benefit pastors to sit the entire auxiliary down and let everyone pat their feet, clap their hand and sing to the radio to rid this nonsense. The heart is too abstinent.
As a PK, I grew up serving in the church playing piano, singing, and leading the worship ministry, FOR FREE. I did not mind doing it for free either, because its unto God. However, I was reaching a point in my life where I was struggling financially. I had pastors telling me that I should not get paid, that God will reward me. I got a few secular jobs by God's grace I worked it for years, but found myself to be miserable. I did this while serving in the church. I went back to school and finished my Bachelors degree hoping I would get a secular job that would allow me to make a living in which I could stand on my own feet. However, it did not work out. I kept asking God why. I'm doing everything that I can. I'm serving faithfully without taking a dime from the church, but I'm struggling and can't even find.a decent job that will help me to even afford a studio apartment. and YES, I was tithing. Long story to cut it short, God opened the door for me to step into full time ministry. I almost did not step into it, because I was CONVINCED that I needed to work a full time job and serve in the church. It is in the full time ministry position that I've been able to stand on my feet, by HIS grace, get married, and start a family. The pay isn't spectacular, but God is good! I think it's very dangerous to just say and assume that everyone should not be paid and just get a regular job.
If that logic doesn’t fly with the utility companies or any craftsman that’s contracted by the church to do repairs to the building then it shouldn’t fly with the musicians, custodial staff, secretary ET see. To your point a talent doesn’t require compensation it requires support however, when the talent becomes a discipline it then becomes a a skill. Skills are cultivated because of discipline and skills should be compensated.
And we wonder why the music department stay tore up smh. What happened to love, devotion and relationship with Christ? Everybody want wages to play an instrument. The wages of sin is death! These people will walk into small churches with 25 members and demand a salary and haven’t had any professional training. If you’re that desperate to be paid at least link with a MEGA ministry that can probably afford to pay you. And for the people comparing PASTORS to musicians, there is no comparison! Pastors are suppose to eat of our carnal things because they feed us spiritual things and that’s Bible....Read it. Musicians don’t feed us. This is so sad tbh.
Let me be devil's advocate for a quick second. I'm assuming you don't play an instrument? Let's say you do. If you played guitar, the average cost of an intermediate guitar is $450. Let's say you have pedals for effects, the average cost for ONE effects pedal is $100. Most guitar players have 5. Cables depending on preference can be $30 and up. Average cost of a guitar amp is $500. So as is, we are looking at about $1200 in cost for just the guitar player. If all he is asking for is $150 a sunday that will cover transportation to rehearsal and back home and to church and back home, plus for upkeep and maintenance on the gear they use, is he really tearing up the music department? And who is walking into a 25 member church and asking for a salary? As musicians, the services we render are unto the Lord. Anytime I get a call to play at a local church and their is compensation, it's fair based on the time constraints and what they are asking of me. NOBODY gets rich playing in church, so you can kill that narrative. I've had the pleasure of working in churches since I was 17, I can tell you this, I don't look at that compensation as my way to retire early. And when it comes to mega churches, for some you are contracting yourself to a full time position so the opportunity to explore any other musical opportunities isn't allowed based on responsibilities. Lastly, music is just as important to God as the preached word. I've seen demons casted, bondage broken, and lives brought to Christ from just music. We can't be quick to make statements without looking at ALL of the things that surround it.
Nope! Stop paying them and you'll see who loves the Lord and understands how to give the gift back without payment. The devil's that aren't serving Christ will leave .
Have a conversation with a musician and you will see that there are more of us who will serve and help out a ministry for the love of God and building the kingdom.
This is a topic, because there are ministries that value solid musicianship and worship leading as a means of effectively leading people to the Lord through song.
This is not a ? If you play in don’t get paid you slow time is money at home we’re working on music while y’all are sleeping in you think you not going to pay me
I agree that many don't understand and see the background work it takes for learning material, attending rehearsals, and even the years we spent working on our craft to get to our level. At the same time, I believe ministries can mold how and what they choose to focus on, but if so the expectation of mega ministry quality should not be forced on their departments.
So sad! I’ve been a dancer for over 20 years and it’s been a taxing commitment. Do I get paid? NO! I’ve had proper professional training, I’ve spent thousands on garments and flags, traveled, etc. So what is this arrogant attitude of being paid all about? Low, you have your reward.
No, you don’t pay the singers. They are expected to volunteer. If it’s your church, you should volunteer your services. A church musician should not be your job. Get a job and play voluntarily.
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i am a pastor and paul says i labor with my own hands for my needs so if the pastor can get paid musicians should get paid
His needs was a meal. This is why Satan rules these churches because thier a business. Its for pay, not compensation but pay. So,we're gonna start firing these pastors since its for pay.
Gond me a scripture that backs musicians getting paid?
@@ignatius3079 read NEHEMIAH 10:31-33
@@creativeroom365 thats the old testament. Either your under the law, or your under grace. The old testament is the old covenant. The new is the Law of Christ. You have to choose. Read galatians 2,3,4,5 6. Follow any of the law you have fallen from grace.
@@sonoftheday8249 then you’re saying that churches shouldn’t read any Old Testament? If church can ask for tithing and that was in Old Testament then what you’re talking about?
I been playing in church for about 5 years and work a job 60+ hours a week. Its a real sacrifice taking time out of my day and away from my family to practice and get better. If i was compensated I could cut back working so much and spend more time on the keys and get better. It seems that my church is no okay with paying the musicians. Normally my schedule is work at 4am to 430pm and play at church Tuesday, Thursday and twice on Sundays. I love God and my church. I do it because I love God and his people. Its a tough rode too walk.
I agree with your church. Listen brother when these men stand before our Lord,he will tell them "YOU'VE BEEN PAID ALREADY" Dont let that be you. Scarface for our Lord as you been doing he will repay.
Will he tell the electrician the same message as the musician what about the members who only sit in the pew. Will he say these musician actually labor more than 90% of my church every musician can clean the church and pass out flyers and say let the lord use u and many can preach too it's. Very interesting that the one thing that all the other members can't do gets so condemn and is such a topic... 2nd your investing in your musician not paying them church invest in its members and building and God.
I could see truth in both perspectives.
@@goodday104 here is a good question why is a church willing to pay a visiting pastor who comes for a revival which is one week. But have a problem with paying a member who gives his labor 52 weeks to the church the pastors are not jesus charity should start at home it takes time to be even decent on the organ it is way harder than being a plumber and an electrician for the sound and commitment to the church. U can train a plumber in 2 weeks no way u can train anyone to give u sunday's best performances on an hammond organ n 2 weeks.. be blessed
Playing off key will drive members away sounding a hot mess and that's not the musicians speaking this it's the church attendance comparison between levels of pastoring and musicianship... The word keeps you. Keep humble love the lord enjoy life bless others and always be your for you are the one who is judge. And if your heart is right and u belong to God nothing else matters
Thank you Terrence for speaking up on behalf the Techs and Engineer ls that are behind the scenes. They definitely need to get paid and also have the necessary equipment to do the best job possible to assist the music/worship team!
Yes! Church musicians definitely should get paid!
*I can't believe we are still having this discussion.* It's either you want men and women of God and are professional or a bunch of volunteers who are less skilled. It's that simple.
What makes a musician “professional”? Just bc you are a volunteer doesn’t mean you are less skilled. it could just mean the person heart is I want to give what was given to me.
@@1kaveena I meant to say as a general rule of thumb. Exceptions are never the rule. I am myself am a professional musician and I volunteer for stuff quite frequently.
If I am not mistaken by definition a professional is someone who receives compensation for what they do.
HELL IS A HORRIBLE PLACE.!!!!!!!
There are churches that utilize musicians you see touring the world as volunteers, the only difference is, the church is also a place for them to network and receive other opportunities by those who may attend the church or work at the church. Sad to say, store front churches aren't providing opportunities of this magnitude.
Played organ for 42years. Never received a dime. Im now a homeless musician but at least i go to church and do it without every getting anything.
My response to the question is LOVING GOD DOESNT MEAN BE A FOOL OR SLAVE
HELL IS A HORRIBLE PLACE.
@@sonoftheday8249so r u
Great discussion! There are a ton of good points! Thanks for this!
There is absolutely no way that we could do this for free. For one too much is required of us as far as our time, effort, and talent, for two we’re often mistreated, and thirdly the requests, complaints, and expectations are excessive a lot of times.
This is quite a good indepth discussion,I'm a muso and at the Church I was at we all used IEs and had an ap on our phones which gave us all access to the main desk so each person could adjust what they were receiving in their own IEs,it was like a full mini sound desk which was brilliant and worked really well.Having no stage foldback speakers really cleared up the stage which made it look so much better.
A crucial conversation is not whether or not to pay the church musicians, a crucial matter today is the lust and molestation in the church❤️🖤💚
Good Convo. Our musician have a good relationship with my pastor. My pastor is very personable and talks to him mostly every Sunday. We're a small church. Our musican has been with us over 15yrs and travels an 1hr away to play for us so community is very important. We do have budget as well set a side for music ministry/salaries and it is a must like you said.
That is awesome! I think the community of the body of Christ is one of the most valueble aspects of serving.
No one is asking the question, "should choir members get paid along with the musicians?" They too show up for rehearsals, show up on Sunday mornings and minister through song using their gifts. Some choir members have taken professional singing lessons to enhance their gifts just as some musicians have taken professional courses to enhance their gifts. Who's cut'en their checks?
Now if the musicians are being hired to play for a church, then they should ABSOLUTELY get paid! But if they're members of that church just as the choir members are, then NO ma'am NO sir they should NOT get paid. And let's be mindful of the other ministries in the church were others aren't being paid.
Actually!! There are other people who are taking the time in perfecting whatever lane they are in. Should everyone one get paid now?? If I’m a minister I have to study I may even go to school. I’m taking time out to be better. But if GOD called me and or gave me this gift I have to give my gift to benefit the body of believers.
I’m a believer that God will bless the sacrifice
AMEN.
All points are valid few things missing there are a million choir members not a million organist to give the services required other wise every church would have the best organist..... No way 1 member out of 10 singers can do what one great organist does sunday in sunday out....
A skilled singer IS a musician. Their voices are their instruments. They just happened to be born with theirs built in.
Indeed, they MUST BE PAID as well
Scripture is needed in this conversation
AMEN.
Nehemiah 13:11-13
Really guys, thats the problem, many churches don't know what direction that they want to go. So, to have a conversation with musicians about the kind of church they want to have - wont happen. I grew in a church that didn't have any musicians, when I expressed that I wanted to play music in church - they got behind me - prayed for me and the pastor said, didn't we pray for you to play - why aren't you playing - there's the piano ain't nobody on it - go play! It was horrible, my church suffered with me for years. My mother played a major part in my music development - she paid for the lessons out of the grocery money. The church definitely was the major part of my spiriual development. So with that, what I have to offer any church is both those aspects if I command money for that - yes I should be paid. There is a lot more that I could say but, I'll stop right there.
It’s up to the individual and the church. Some churches don’t pay anybody for their services including the pastor.
Great commentary!
Thank You!! What other subjects would you like to see discussed?
Great convo
Thanks greatly! Any other topics you'd like to see discussed?
The sad part about this topic is that the church never asks should hey have to pay any other service provider tbh it is biblical to pay your musicians the tithes as supposed to go to the levites so if you dont want to pay the levites then you really shouldnt be asking for or accepting the tithe it was never intended to pay your light bills
@@shanneemars4351 the people’s jobs also consisted of herding cattle and tilling the ground so whats your point? Is it that people aren’t levites because they don’t maintain cities because then i can say you aren’t a congregant because you don’t raise cattle its a dumb point to make if that is your point
Good discussion, however
THE WORD above all is the most important in the context that after the music, singing, dancing and emotional aspects of a worship service ends, it's the rightly divided word of God that is going to save and keep you!
My sister i totally agree with you, and that word is not the bible its Jesus Christ. People got this thing mixed up. The Bible is The Holy Scriptures. The word of God is his Son in whom all the words of God dwell. Sister I would like for you to find and read the holy scriptures. In this book has 80 books not 66. In it is the 14 books removed by the catholic church and in will explain a lot more.
WHY IS THIS EVEN A QUESTION??? Should someone who works at a grocery store "for the glory of god" get paid, lol? I hate that we as the church are so horrible with money and paying ppl in excellence. We are apart of the Kingdom of God but the ppl in the world are more excellent in the way they pay their workers... We Gotta Do Better yall!!!
Your mixing business gig and church, money was mention a lot in the bible never you find a verse that can apply in to what your saying,, going to church today is becoming a "feel good" show music event with lights and smoke machines, this is something new that just became super important
The only time a musician should be compensated is when church duties overlap with your livelihood.
If I were a musician at some of these churches, i wouldn't, they don't respect musicians, they either brag or use most of us for their selfish gain, that's why you see musicians slowly leaving these churches today and pewers being empty because of it. Blame it on ya'll selves and and have some answers for God.
Musicians and pastors are service members not to be paid but to service I believe both should get an offering for their services
Proof from the Bible?
They should be given a basic stipend so they can be on the staff of the church and employed by the church . Not just hirelings coming in and doing the job , getting paid and moving on to the next job .
Being part of a worship service is not a job
Thank you! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Realistically, how much do you think a musician gets paid a service on Sundays? Y'all making it seem like it's big baller money being made.
You go to school to earn a degree in your field so you can make a living for yourself and your family. Music is a field, you earn your degree, you should be compensated. If you don’t agree and don’t want to pay, have service without it. Simple as that. There are other avenues for musicians to get paid. The so called church always wants something for free.
Exactly, well said
Then, the ushers should get paid, cleaners cooks,ministers. Either for the kingdom or nothing.
AMEN.
Than the pastor should only be volunteer also. For the kingdom or nothing after all. Also, usher do not have to show up for rehearsals and you don’t have to spend years honing in on the craft of ushering, or clean, or cook. This also means that any professional service should only if ever volunteer at the church... if the church needs to call a plumber, better find one willing to volunteer their services for it is for the Lord... need an attorney to represent the church in court if someone warts to sue for slipping on the ice in the parking lot? That attorney ought to be a volunteer since this is for the house of the Lord.
Yes. Biblically labourers MUST BE PAID
@@jerryKJose so enjoy your reward.
The musicians first and foremost is responsible for his or her own spiritual growth in Christ, because the word says workout your OWN soul salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord. However, if the musician is a hireling with the intent not to be discipled by the church they play for than that's between them and God. If someone renders there time and service or profession they should be payed period or the organization stands in judgement for withholding good to whom good is due when it was in their power to act on it. Playing in the church is one of the oldest professions in the bible look up the Tabernacle of David ..under his leadership all the musicians where paid and taken care of. The real issue is not whether or not musicians should be payed the real issue is that leaders want these musicians to enhance the experience of their organizations but won't let go of a welfare mentality.
Well said!!!👏🏾👏🏾
These people are not reading the same Bible I’m reading…. This is why the church looks like the world.
Seeing that cogic is a business, before saving souls. It would make sense considering what the church has deteriorated to. My early life , coming from a pentecostal backings, and teachings. People performed their gift of God, as far as praise and worship, they would never consider being paid. Seeing that Jesus came to serve 🙏, not get served, I believe this conversation is a black-eye for the church, and won't entertain listening to this any further
Yes because most musicians aren't members of the church, yet pastors that are sent by God should not be paid, 2nd Corinthians chapter 2 verse 17 explains but musicians, custodians and lawn maintenance yes
PASTORS MOST DEFINITELY SHOULD BE PAID AND THAT’S BIBLE. They feed us spiritual things and they are suppose to eat of our carnal things. That means MONEY.
What is more important Music or the word ? 6:12 that question is insane Lol... If i use your same bible logic well, did Jesus carry a guitar and was singing to people, did he performed his ministry with a any music group ? yes music is important but what was said on that question is moronic
Are the musicians saved? Are the musicians apart of the church they play? Does the musicians church hop? It depends… if other people are on salary then musicians shouldn’t be “excluded” from being paid. Period. Will the musicians follow the same rules and guidelines like other musicians? Are they hirelings? They are answer if you want quality but not asking if they are ministers. Where is God in this conversation? Musicians and pastors are pimping the church. Filling the seats with entertainment. “A modern church” or “Gods church? God wasn’t welcome into this conversation. Did Jesus have high value in healing? How much did Jesus charge for healing? How much did God charge us for salvation?
Since you mentioned tithing, it was for certain people- JEWS, for a different time, old testament. Has no bearing on anyone walking and breathing today. I believe sanctification has lost its priority as part of the church. The Bible says, come from among them. Meaning, you should be different than the world 🌎
Which has become hard to distinguish the two. I come from the old COGIC area
Most of musicians are players and not prayers. They love to play their instruments more than they love to pray. The place where most musicians are failing are in their prayer life.
That is indeed NOT AN EXCUSE for not paying a musician for his TIME, EFFORT, KNOWLEDGE etc.
The answer is no.
The musicians have the churches held hostage. Music brings in the funds and that's all most pastors care about. Musicians are not saved-most of the time. They should be taught that music is one of the most powerful weapons that the church Should Have!!! Casting out demons? How- when the musician just left the club. Start over and only pay musicians who are a part of the ministry and is saved. If they want a JOB ONLY then go secular. We are a luke- warm greedy people. It goes far beyond the musician. Go back to the alter and get saved FOR REAL !!!!
For sure this comment is a HUGE part of the issue. In essence gifts can be used in any spectrum. I play for churches, I’m a worship pastor, and I also sing/play in other genres of music. Classical, being the main one. Do I need to go back to the “altar” because I perform a Mozart piece? No. Or if I happen to sing a wedding and perform a song by Luther Vandross. From elementary school through college I was trained and groomed to do what I’m doing now. I expect compensation for that. Even the church I serve at I was sought after because of the skill AND demonstration of my anointing to exhort.
Lol
@@sirjazlivs Thank you!
no!
These nuts discussing whether you should get paid for you work is evidence itself that the church is crazy.
Just like the Pastors should have a job and not get paid by the church then musicians should not get paid. True ministry isn't looking for a pay check. Get a job like the rest of us. We all have gifts and talents and don't get paid for it so why are you so special? Stop looking to get paid if you are truly doing ministry. So tired of these so called "Ministers" of music expecting a pay check. If I choose to gift you with money for playing then so be it. If I don't then so be it. If you want to get paid for playing, make an album or have a concert. Just don't equate getting paid to play for ministry. Ministry is free. If Christ looked for a paycheck every time He gave a sermon, God help us.
Tell me where in the Bible ppl used their gifts and weren’t paid in some form! In the Bible days ppl were hosted fruits , food etc but obviously in the year 2021 those things aren’t used to live off therefore it would be money. Stop using god as an excuse to be indecent
You are right. One of the men said, "In 2021 a different expectation is required" This type thinking is wide spread and reflects what we see in majority of churches - a conglomerate enterprise that celabrate sensationalism. It may benefit pastors to sit the entire auxiliary down and let everyone pat their feet, clap their hand and sing to the radio to rid this nonsense. The heart is too abstinent.
As a PK, I grew up serving in the church playing piano, singing, and leading the worship ministry, FOR FREE. I did not mind doing it for free either, because its unto God. However, I was reaching a point in my life where I was struggling financially. I had pastors telling me that I should not get paid, that God will reward me. I got a few secular jobs by God's grace I worked it for years, but found myself to be miserable. I did this while serving in the church. I went back to school and finished my Bachelors degree hoping I would get a secular job that would allow me to make a living in which I could stand on my own feet. However, it did not work out.
I kept asking God why. I'm doing everything that I can. I'm serving faithfully without taking a dime from the church, but I'm struggling and can't even find.a decent job that will help me to even afford a studio apartment. and YES, I was tithing. Long story to cut it short, God opened the door for me to step into full time ministry. I almost did not step into it, because I was CONVINCED that I needed to work a full time job and serve in the church. It is in the full time ministry position that I've been able to stand on my feet, by HIS grace, get married, and start a family. The pay isn't spectacular, but God is good!
I think it's very dangerous to just say and assume that everyone should not be paid and just get a regular job.
If that logic doesn’t fly with the utility companies or any craftsman that’s contracted by the church to do repairs to the building then it shouldn’t fly with the musicians, custodial staff, secretary ET see. To your point a talent doesn’t require compensation it requires support however, when the talent becomes a discipline it then becomes a a skill. Skills are cultivated because of discipline and skills should be compensated.
Should a baby eat
😂😂😭
No.
And we wonder why the music department stay tore up smh. What happened to love, devotion and relationship with Christ? Everybody want wages to play an instrument. The wages of sin is death! These people will walk into small churches with 25 members and demand a salary and haven’t had any professional training. If you’re that desperate to be paid at least link with a MEGA ministry that can probably afford to pay you. And for the people comparing PASTORS to musicians, there is no comparison! Pastors are suppose to eat of our carnal things because they feed us spiritual things and that’s Bible....Read it. Musicians don’t feed us. This is so sad tbh.
Let me be devil's advocate for a quick second. I'm assuming you don't play an instrument? Let's say you do. If you played guitar, the average cost of an intermediate guitar is $450. Let's say you have pedals for effects, the average cost for ONE effects pedal is $100. Most guitar players have 5. Cables depending on preference can be $30 and up. Average cost of a guitar amp is $500. So as is, we are looking at about $1200 in cost for just the guitar player. If all he is asking for is $150 a sunday that will cover transportation to rehearsal and back home and to church and back home, plus for upkeep and maintenance on the gear they use, is he really tearing up the music department? And who is walking into a 25 member church and asking for a salary? As musicians, the services we render are unto the Lord. Anytime I get a call to play at a local church and their is compensation, it's fair based on the time constraints and what they are asking of me. NOBODY gets rich playing in church, so you can kill that narrative. I've had the pleasure of working in churches since I was 17, I can tell you this, I don't look at that compensation as my way to retire early. And when it comes to mega churches, for some you are contracting yourself to a full time position so the opportunity to explore any other musical opportunities isn't allowed based on responsibilities. Lastly, music is just as important to God as the preached word. I've seen demons casted, bondage broken, and lives brought to Christ from just music. We can't be quick to make statements without looking at ALL of the things that surround it.
Nope! Stop paying them and you'll see who loves the Lord and understands how to give the gift back without payment. The devil's that aren't serving Christ will leave .
Have a conversation with a musician and you will see that there are more of us who will serve and help out a ministry for the love of God and building the kingdom.
People like you is why churches are drying up. Quit trying to God guilt musicians because YOU don't think they should get paid.
Why is this even a topic??? Are y’all playing as unto the Lord or for entertainment?? Lord have mercy on your people Jesus 🙏🏾🤦🏾♂️
This is a topic, because there are ministries that value solid musicianship and worship leading as a means of effectively leading people to the Lord through song.
Smh
This is not a ? If you play in don’t get paid you slow time is money at home we’re working on music while y’all are sleeping in you think you not going to pay me
I agree that many don't understand and see the background work it takes for learning material, attending rehearsals, and even the years we spent working on our craft to get to our level. At the same time, I believe ministries can mold how and what they choose to focus on, but if so the expectation of mega ministry quality should not be forced on their departments.
So sad! I’ve been a dancer for over 20 years and it’s been a taxing commitment. Do I get paid? NO! I’ve had proper professional training, I’ve spent thousands on garments and flags, traveled, etc. So what is this arrogant attitude of being paid all about? Low, you have your reward.
No, you don’t pay the singers. They are expected to volunteer. If it’s your church, you should volunteer your services. A church musician should not be your job. Get a job and play voluntarily.
Nonsense, learn the holy Bible. It is not your subjective notions that matter here