I totally forgot to mention this in this video, but I do not get paid to play in my local church. I made this video more for the perspective of people getting invited to play at churches or church events that they don't weekly attend or call their church home.
Has your local church ever offered to pay you? I don’t demand to be paid when I go to visit other churches, however they generally have the etiquette to pay me anyways. I’ve only had one church in my life that demanded I give them a price. I was just helping them out and I didn’t care about the money but I did tell them a price eventually because they kept bugging me. I head the music and art department and I’m the worship coordinator at my local church. I get paid and proudly say that my church takes care of me because I take care of God’s people in worship. If they say hey we can’t pay you anymore I would still do what I’ve been doing for free. I make sure every musician who plays at the church gets paid. You don’t know their story and what financial bind they’re in. I remember waiting until Sunday to get my check because my cell phone was scheduled to be disconnected on Monday lol
@@DOC2089you are definitely right about not knowing someone’s story, and how they’ve sowed in times of feast and famine. The true problem today is some people forget that musicians (etc) are a part of the body that needs care…….
As a pastor and musician, I can tell you biblically you are worthy to be paid. I've yet heard anyone question if the musicians for secular artist are paid. Great video.
Good video. I played keyboard at my church for two years, yes, people don't realize the time sacrifice of practice, rehearsal, live performance, cost of song and instrument material, learning your craft so yes I believe a musician should be compensated from time to time.But other members volunteer and contribute without compensation. I contributed time doing several other duties at my church without compensation. Our service is a ministry for Christ not a pay job, but I feel a love offering should be given to musicians from time to time.
@@ronhoffman7941 Noone is saying He is not playing FOR GOD... IT is biblical to pay your Levites.. Some churches don't pay their musicians and if that is their way of doing work fine. Then as a musician you have the right to do as you want whether to play or not. Getting paid or not does not make you a better follower of Christ. It is when people who get paid jump from sermon to sermon and forget about the needs and the importance of their home church that it then becomes an issue.
I grow up in the church I’m professional musician, i did worship many years for free, but sometimes the people and the churches don’t understand the sacrifices that a musician go trough, the 90% of professional musician who made music college and all of that, they can’t work a normal job because they spend 4 or 8 years or their life in a university to obtain a degree in music. They can choose to play with real artist the can show to play with non Christians bands, but they doesn’t do it because they love God. nothing will happens if the church pay their musicians. You’re not God to judge them first thing first. you’re part of a family that help others. Let’s said the truth there’re churches that their pastor get paid better than any executive and CEO..
I played for mega and mid to small churches as well as a bass guitar player. I truly put God first in my life. I think there should be a pay compensation why then hire snd pay a minister of music to play piano and organ yet not pay the other musicians. but these churches will pay music artists such as Kirk Franklin , Yolanda Adams and so on who all will get in front of an audience and tell you all about praising God and you not to put God first . then why pay them and why are they taking money so why is it different fir any other musician. then they got corruption going on up to sometimes the church leadership. Come on I gotta have Record out on the airwaves to get paid at a church while all the while tell others to just have faith when you want things. quit the brainwashing. The minister of music gets paid why???
Speaking for myself only! To me it's not about money, it's about serving the lord with the talent that he gave me! I'm happy just seeing somebody enjoy my music, the smiles or a tear of happiness.
This is how I have always felt . I don't ask to get paid . It's for the Lord .. and my gift is to be used to win souls . That isn't the only thing I do for the Lord . But its for the Lord
Imagine if the pastor changed the set list last minute on you though... If you're being paid, it's fine. If you're not paid, you just wasted a couple hours learning songs.
@GingerJoberton lol idk if u or anyone who plays by set list will be able to Play with our praise team . We play by improvising . We learn the songs that are new . But after learning the chord progression we just play . Sometimes we pull out something we haven't played in years and u learning it as we play . But again we let the holy ghost lead our services and in us . Haven't fail yet and yea maybe we miss a note here and there but it's all playing music by ear .
@GingerJoberton like I said .. this is me personally. I do it for God . Only Jesus. If people want to offer to give me a love offering for playing music in there church .. then fantastic . But I don't need money to play music I love being where the holy ghost is . I love doing anything and everything for God just because I love it . I work tho . So I'm not even hurting for money.. bur I have had people offer to pay me . And I declined . It's not about them it's not about me it's not about the music it's about Jesus and his spirit moving through people it's about in hopes someone's surrenders and start praying though the holy ghost .. shot .. sometimes the spirit moves so strong .. I step down from playing.. and go praise and worship and pray for others who are close to getting the holy ghost
@@bryanrios146 careful of your holier than thou way you're writing dude, I think you're trying to be nice through gritted teeth. It's not nice. Enjoy your music. I agree with the video. Pay musicians, don't degrade art. Freebies are ok.
Having been self employed for the past 20+ years... keep doing what you're doing! I would say change the wording of your question from "Is there a budget...?" to "What is the budget...?". If they truly don't have a budget they'll tell you, but if they do have a budget they generally won't say no. "Is there a budget" gives them wiggle room. It's subtle but effective.
I just had a conversation with my mom about this on Sunday. Some feel they shouldn't pay musicians if they are members of the church. They think you should be using your talents for God and not for pay. But like you said, all the hours you put into learning songs, rehearsals, and providing your expertise should be rewarded. Also, getting a return on the investment of your instruments, equipment and musical education is no different from a Pastor getting paid to prepare sermons and having to pay for his theology education. Thanks for the video Travis
Also, there are others on the payroll who DO NOT put in the work nor the dedication that these musicians are and are still getting some type of appreciation.
"all the hours you put into learning songs, rehearsals, and providing your expertise should be rewarded" It is. Your reward is the ability to play music in praise of the Lord. If you don't get that, then church ain't for you. #YallNeedJesus
@@DarylDCChestnut So... you're envious? Ya know that's a sin right? Seriously, y'all are REALLY only going to church for the social club aspect. Just go play bars or clubs. Sounds like that's what you wanna do anyways.
I know exactly what your saying. "You have a guitar. Your supposed to know every song ever written". One @$$#○£€ complained that we spent "too much time tuning up". In one church, some of the congregants said I was too big and "scary looking" to play on the worship team, even though I was the only member who could read and transpose music. I was even told at one church not to "play too well, because it would hurt another member's self confidence". I WILL NEVER, EVER PLAY MUSIC AT A CHURCH, EVER AGAIN. EVER. WHETHER THEY PAY ME OR NOT. I spent 12 years dealing with this churchy Bu//$#¡T. Never again. Now I ONLY play secular gigs......for MONEY.
@@m.loughlin1915completely agree with the preconception many members have on their musicians. Especially when it comes to ones who play instruments, the other I was told to tone down my playing as "it was distracting the vocalists and they can't hold a tune." The same vocalists in questions without fail, never practice the songs, never remember the lyrics, and skulk whenever notes are given at practice. I get that there's time where my sound isn't what the song calls for or I'm either rushing or dragging a bit. That's on me. But I'm not gonna play a completely different song or simplify a song for those who don't care enough to know how the opening harmonies go to the song we're playing.
Thank you for the excellent topic and video. I personally went from a gigging musician in bars/weddings for 30-years to only playing in my church (now for 3-years). For me personally, I am most grateful for the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ; He saved me. So I am glad to serve, not entertain. May he use us all to reveal His glory.
In our church we are given a love gift. No fixed value though but it feels great that our efforts get recognized by our church leaders as much as we get recognized by God
Very important topic! It’s good to have both perspectives. I typically go in expecting nothing and only accept or decline based on whether I’m cool with that or not. IF I am paid, it is always a blessing. Either way, I’m pouring my heart and soul into learning and mastering the setlists. God sees it all and will bless either way.
Travis, thank you so much for this very insightful video. I’ve been a professional bass player for almost 40 years now living in Nashville Tennessee. I played at a very prominent church in Nashville for over 18 years(that was my home church) and never received any pay for that and I was OK with that. That said, I have been asked to play at many churches, both in Nashville, and also out of town. I do not have another day job, my job is being a musician. Let me preface that my father was a pastor for over 25 years so I understand “ministry“&”calling “. But I also reference the scripture that says “a workman is worthy of his hire”(Luke 10:7). While talking about money in the church can be awkward, it doesn’t have to be. There were times when churches would hire me, and then all of a sudden, they would say, “we’re not going to pay any more.” While I understand, giving your gifts to the church, and even volunteering. As a professional, this is what I do for a living and so many times, I am not paid for the hours of preparation(woodshedding,traveling,writing charts, etc) that I do to bring my proverbial A game to whatever setting I am playing. There was one instance, where a church decided after a couple of years of paying me to come and play that they weren’t going to pay me again to which I said to them if the air conditioning went out in their church, they wouldn’t expect a repairman to come and fix it for free. Some(no all) churches want professional musicians to raise the bar of musicianship, but guilt them into feeling like “if you love, Jesus, you’ll do this for free”. Again, thank you so much for this wonderful video and God bless you and your family. 🙏🏼
There’s a Harvard lecture series on RUclips called “Doing the Right Thing” that set me straight on getting paid for my art. The basic concept is that our labor belongs to God, so we’re not at liberty to give it away. If I wanted to offer my services to a church in the form of music, and my other gigs or my day job covered my expenses, I’d negotiate something like $10 to pay for a sandwich. There has to be something, or else the transaction is a sin from both sides - particularly covetousness from the side of the recipient. Of course our sins are forgiven, but we’re entitled to compensation for our labor. I’d say if the church leaders won’t at least provide you a modest lunch for your efforts, then you’re fine to decline - but I doubt a church would decline a great deal for ten bucks.
I've played in praise bands for 20 + years and never thought about being paid. I started playing in the church I'm in now and was shocked when they said they were paying me and I struggled with it for about six months. Now I'm at the point that I realize, it is work no matter how much fun it is and it does take away from family life, but I also take it more seriously as a job and put more time into practice.
Thank you Travis for a very insightful video. Congregants have no earthly idea how much time, effort, and money it takes to play an instrument in a worship setting. I have made it a ministry my whole life starting at the age of 12 playing in church. I have also worked in traveling groups. 95% of the time I took no money even for expenses because I have been financially blessed by my regular job. Your handling of the matter is perfect. Keep on sharing and expanding the horizons of ministry leadership.
I agree with you Travis. What you are doing by coaching, teaching, mentoring other musicians and also playing for certain events you should get paid. That should be talked about from the church perspective up front before you even show up especially if you are driving several hours and spending the night in a hotel. I like what you posted afterward about not being paid by your local church. The way I look at this is I am using my talents that the Lord has given me as a drummer for the Lord and giving back to my church. The Lord does not want us to simply give money to the church. He wants us to give of our talents as well. Thanks for the great content and for speaking on that "taboo" subject of getting paid by the church.
Thank you for addressing this. I appreciate how professional you are, and really seem to have a great spirit. I help out a few churches and get paid to play bass. This is a big help to them on either short-term (like their bassist is on hiatus), or longer term giving them a little boost in musicianship. I'm upfront about what I'm able to do practice-wise (no mid-week practice), and that I ask for payment. In return they get an experienced musician who: show's up on time and prepared, dresses appropriately for the type of church, and has a positive and friendly attitude. I'm greatful for them all, and I believe they are happy to have me.
Thank you for this honest and genuine commentary. I believe church musicians should be paid and taken care of by the ministry. I pray more ministries come to this understanding. Thanks and blessings for your input.
Nope, it’s already enough that our lord gifted me the ability to play instruments, the least I could do is use that gift to worship him, sacrifice time if necessary, he will bless me in his own ways for my sacrifices.
This is your first video that I have watched and the financial point you have raised is a very close matter of my heart. I have made a video, specifically a sermon upon this 'touchy' subject. The gist of the sermon is this: God understands the need for musicians in worship, and God meets the needs of the musicians. We see the above two aspects in the Old Testament's account of public worship in Israel. God has chosen the Levites as labourers initially while Israel was travelling to the promised land. In the promised land, the Levites were the musicians leading the people in public worship. Yes, God has chosen the musicians [Levites] to worship Him in this way: totally dedicated musicians. God has also made provision for the needs of the Levites. Apart from dwelling places around the temple, they were also provided 48 cities with their suburbs [for grazing their livestock]. FURTHER MORE, GOD COMMANDED THE REST OF THE TRIBES TO PAY THEIR TITHES TO THE LEVITES! The Levites in turn were asked to pay their tithes to the priests, this being called as the tithe of tithes. In the New Testament, all believers are called to be priests, our chief priest being Jesus Christ. Christians are asked to sing while suffering in the world just as Jesus sang a hymn after the last supper and while on the cross. Paul and Silas sang when in prison and the so did the persecuted early church at Rome when thrown to devouring beasts. I doubt whether present day musicians would have the courage to take up their drums and guitars to play music while the suffering Christians were singing:). In a church, believers are asked to: Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. Pay attention to these phrases in the above two verses: 'SPEAKING TO YOURSELVES', SINGING AND MAKING MEODY TO THE LORD', and 'TEACHING AND ADMONISHING ONE ANOTHER' Consider these three phases and you will have a good sermon from them. The mention of PSALMS in both the verses above imply this: the singing has to be accompanied by the playing of music instruments and, if this playing is done by skilful musicians, the worship will be elevated to a greater level of joy and unity. In the early church the Apostles gave their services freely and paid with their lives for the faith. Paul worked for his livelihood as a tent maker but was used by God to carry out a ministry, along with Silas, to turn the world upside down. Paul exhorted the elders of the church at Ephesus not to covet gold and silver and lucre and gave himself as an example of such a life. The very same Paul also mentions that elders who labour in the Word and worthy of double honour and that the labourer is worthy of hire. A church elder [be he an apostle, prophet, evangelist or pastor and teacher] is qualified to receive WAGES only, not TITHES. Now what about skilled musicians being paid for their services? Let me state that the Levites had not only the role of leading worship but also had other duties to perform such as keeping charge of the temple and teaching the public about the law of God. There is no free ride in the church FOR ANY BELIEVER! Every saint has to do a work in the church! Seeing the importance of music and singing in church services, it will be nice for the church to appoint called and talented musicians to be elders or deacons for the church and, apart from playing instruments/singing at church services, use them for meeting the other needs of the church in the ministry. Such musical elders and deacons can be paid wages by the church.
My wife and I have been worship leaders in our own local churches, and we've never been paid or offered. Small churches, about 5 hrs per week total effort prep and performing no bid deal. When we've accepted invites to other congregations, they've always offered to pay us, and we've always politely declined. Nothing wrong with offering or accepting payment, we just prefer to serve without it.
I am a volunteer bassist for my church. We have 3 other volunteer bassists, 4 drummers, 2 guitarists, all volunteers. The keyboard/piano player is paid and a pro musician. I have learned sooo much from the other bassists- who are 🔥, by the way, I get to play through a state of the art, professional concert sound system that is just stupidly loud and clear because we just recently built a new church that we saved for 20 years to build and it is such a blessing from God! I’m ok with not being paid money to play bass on the praise team because I’m getting so much more out of serving God on this ministry. HOWEVER, I completely understand that if playing bass is how you make a living to support your family and yourself, then absolutely you should be paid, and paid well. ❤
I am totally against it. I am a musician and I know from experience that it's wrong. And most of them are only playing for money. And some don't live for God. They only do it for money. But this is not all of them. You just have to be careful and not put a burden on the members for the greed of musicians. And again, this ain't all musicians. I've seen many of them brag about just playing, not working and having sex. But doing it on the level you Travis does it, by driving 4 hours, learning lots of songs, then yeah get paid. But make sure it's for the glory of God 1st. 12:25
Great video, Travis demonstrating a day in the life of a church musician that travels. The line, “Man, we’re asking a lot of him and we don’t even have a budget?” is especially right on when you’re expected to play for free. Well done addressing a topic that needs to be addressed more in the church! (Numbers 18:21-32)
I play bass at my church. I started playing for free 7 years ago. A couple years ago they offered to pay me they had been paying the pianist/vocalist. I appreciated them recognizing my growth and commitment as a musician. I never though I would say I was a paid musician.
You’re not a paid musician. You got a donation. People go to church to worship Christ, not see you play your U2 cover band. They’d still be there if you weren’t there.
@@adamg.manning6088 how do you know who I am out what I get? I get a check for a set amount as does our drummer and pianist. I don't know what church you go to but maybe you need go upgrade to a better grade of musician. Or is it you wish you had an iota of musical ability that someone would pay you 🤷🏿♂️
I think it’s great that you are sharing the grind of a working musician. There is a lot of sacrifice and time that is not seen. Your content is entertaining, informative and enlightening! Keep killing it on the bass!!💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
I think we should get a little something maybe not every week. But sometimes. I've been blessed with money lunch and other things. And I didn't ask for anything. But churches should consider this. Music is a big part of the service.
Travis as the bass player at the church I attend , I agree with you , after Jesus said a workman is worthy of his hire as the son of a preacher I know when they preach out , they usually get paid something , if a musician is asked to travel and play then they should be compensated . Lol my church only has 2 musicians ... nothing fancy going on here just sing unto the lord hymns luv you bro.
You have an excellent perspective and approach to this very touchy topic. Long ago I was a volunteer musician at my church. (Definitely not professional grade!) we had a mix of of volunteers and paid pros. It was never a conflict and I learned a ton! As a full time musician you need to be able to support your family.
@@spiffymongo4030 preachers get payed also we dont expect to be payed but some apreciation for your time and effort is not out of place and I specifically mean service outside of your home church because if someone asks you to play somewere then you ar emost likely leaving your own place making time for said event its not wrong to accept a compensation
It depends on the church, their budget, does the worship team bring in money, how many practices and time is put in, etc. I played drums at a well known church at the age of 13-17 and we were professionals. Other churches reached out to us for events or as an example for their church and we would get paid aka an offering of thanks. He were a pretty big group including air instruments. We had to travel in a bus. We also brought in money for the church therefor the church would share it with us in order to help pay for gas, meals, upgrading/maintenance on our instruments, etc. our church became very financially blessed largely in part due to our worship team. We played English and Spanish songs including writing our own music. We played in white, Hispanic, black, and Asian churches. With all that said, it was some what of a partime-full time job for some of us due to the time we took in writing the music, practices, etc. Did we expect to get paid? No of course and at first we didn’t receive anything until we began bringing a significant amount of money.
You handled this with beautiful grace. Totally get your heart. Never heard anyone talk about this before. I am a professional musician and music teacher. I have given up a night's teaching to attend rehearsals as well as learn the material throughout the week. Would be nice to be paid a small amount to cover the evening's income, but.... I consider this as a part of my offering to the church and the privilege it is to play for the King of Kings.
I’ve been playing and leading worship from the keyboard for over 20 years now. For the first 15 years I never got paid. It was always an act of service. However, when the church asked me to become the worship Director, it required additional responsibilities. We have a monday meeting for Planning services and debrief. We have several monthly meetings to discuss technical elements of the service, on boarding new musicians, and planning for special events. It also requires me to spend about 3 to 5 hours per week, organizing songs, preparing for the service, making sure musicians are available and ready, and showing up early and leaving late on Sundays. The church begin to pay me, and it was just enough for me to be able to justify quitting my job and picking up other part-time work. If the church was not paying me, I would not be able to be at any of these meetings. It wasn’t until I laid out the fact that I was spending nearly 15 hours a week, working on services, programs, music, and meetings that they realized that it was more than just playing on Sundays
As a photographer, I have found that when you do work for free or at a discount, the recipient places no value on your skills, time, expenses, etc. ...and generally more demanding of what you provide, especially weddings.
I’m speaking as a guitar and piano player who’s played for little to no money over 20 + years. The answer is, unequivocally YES! With that said, it looks so bad when musicians don’t feel like part of the service, except for the part when they are on. Specially with the you get kids, who constantly complain for not having platforms in church and for not getting enough attention from the church. Yet, once they’re done singing/playing they run to the courtyard, to the other parts of the sanctuary and completo disregard other parts, especially the sermon.
A few comments… One, bro your videos are great! The B roll, the sounds fading in and out, I watched the whole video from start to finish and that’s hard for me. Cheers to your content consumption, I can tell you’ve been doing research. Two, the way you gracefully presented this topic as well as giving instruction on how to address it professionally is essential. It lets the younger cats know how to handle it, in any music gig scenario. Three, and I’ll close here. I’ve been playing in church for most to all of my Music career, heck, my life. It wasn’t until parents called it out that I was the only one not getting paid because I was a teen, or maybe not as valuable. But I didn’t mind because I was also taught servitude and how everything I do, I should do it for Gods glory. So I found joy in just playing. Also, For months at my other church, I was driving 30/40 minutes 3-4 times a week to play, rehearse, teach, and record because of that joy of doing it for God, and getting the resume experience…until I realized that my gas tank needed a drink. While it was not in the budget for the church to do checks at the time, someone from the church covered my gas the whole time. Since then I’ve been getting paid and given gear as well. So this topic is scenario based. For any musician out there playing in church, you should play for God. When you play for God, you get paid by God in some way. Also, yes it is a ministry and also ran by humans who can and will use “servitude” as the title of the door mat they make you. My pastor said once, “don’t be a door knob and let everyone use you.” (It was really “don’t let everyone get a turn” but he was talking abo…nvm) Thanks for the vid, it’s needed.
It is a touchy subject. But if the church hires musicians then yes. I always asked to be a part of the praise team. As a volunteer, then no. I felt it was a calling to do play a t church. Was honored to do so. The rewards that came from God was more than any church could ever pay me.
Yes... I'm a preacher's kid so I grew up in church. If a musician is professional (or more than a beginner player) they should be paid. They're paid to make sure they've practiced and have the proper gear. That said a lot of churches don't pay their musicians and if they can't that's fine. But I've seen churches that are not hurting for money not pay their musicians while expecting way too much from them (Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, funerals, weddings, practices, etc...) I've seen a lot of musicians get burned out. If they just want to play for the Lord they can always donate the money back. Quoting Jesus in Luke 10:7 "...the laborer deserves his wage..."
I get paid to play for each service, events, and more for the church I play for. Practice usually takes 30-40 minutes which covers the entire weekend. Everyone comes prepared as it is required to come prepared. Occasionally if its something last minute we all listen and learn the song the day of rehearsals. Other than that, it is my full time job on the weekend. It covers my bills cuz musicians gotta eat and as a full time musician, this is my bread and butter, or bread and wine as one might say. =) -- This has also opened relationships to other musicians playing with choral groups, jazz groups, and local studio sessions which also paid well. I am very thankful for the church i am thankful for the opportunities they give me.
For me personally I get paid at church. Im currently a college student and most college students I know at my university rely soley on church pay because it helps us with our field of study (music major) and it also helps us keep the sound sounding good (bass strings, amp, etc.) So i feel like there is really no down side to paying them.
Fellow college student, and I completely feel your brother. I don't get payed, but the experience in playing, practicing and performing certainly does help. But I'm happy you're living best life and getting help doing it! :)
I didn’t see anytime where you prepared yourself spiritually. Personally, that’s more of important than preparing musically. I’ve had this conversation many times and it is a very touchy situation. My experience has been that of the piano player is the only one that gets paid in church and the reason given was if I, the drummer can’t be there the service can go on without me and with a piano player. I came out of a professional setting where I toured for 38 years and accepted Jesus, turned from the world and play in church only now. Church is a whole experience within itself, I’m encouraged not to say anything to weak musicians as to not hurt their feelings and discourage them where in a pro setting feelings don’t matter, playing the music right does. I don’t get paid, never get a Thankyou, I just serve my God with the gift He gave me. The time put into playing in church is around 12 to 15 hours a week, it’s important to me to play skillfully and most important to be spiritually intact while doing it. It’s a selfless task, nobody appreciates you unless your not there then your unfaithful. I do this because I love God.
Great video! I wondered where you'd be playing when you said Columbus, and I've lived within a couple miles of that church for most of the past 20 years. Outside of my time as a staff member, I have always expected and been willing to play as a volunteer in my home church (and the churches I've been a part of have been pretty small). But when I'm asked to play away from my home church on a Sunday, compensation is definitely an important consideration. And similarly, I would never expect an outside musician to come play for a service I was leading without being compensated. What is feasible within a particular congregation's budget is always going to vary, but the intent to treat musicians well is important. And, like you, I have also been blessed well beyond expectation by generous folks in the past. Thanks for an honest approach to a difficult subject!
I have been playing for churches for more than 20 years… Yes you should pay your musicians. When I was younger, I didn’t care either way but the more you realize the time that is spent on rehearsals, and practicing and services, it’s worth compensation. People have to understand that for some musicians we are the ones turning the lights on in the church and sometimes the last one to leave.
did it a decade nearly i was first in last out every week nearly. I ran the sound and was lead guitar then had to install all new live sound and run the show and perform. its not easy to do 85% of the workload yourself behind this im also tuning drums prior to start dialing in ear monitoring the house and wedges for the vocals and making a lot of the creative choices in new songs
There is no faster way to lose your anointing than to demand payment for your worship. Music ministry is a labor of love, and carries great responsibility towards the congregation. If you are a Christian, then you'll understand.
@@spiffymongo4030 I personally have never demanded to be paid. But you do have to know your worth. I have been favored enough to not have to demand but the day I have to, I have to retire. So I guess when a pastor gets paid for his sermons, he losses his anointing? No because they will say “oh we’re just taking care of the pastor” lol
I played for the Lord.... 2 services a Sunday and also had a Christian band that played Saturday nights.... We never charged.....the place we were playing might take up a love offering but we would give it back to the venue to help with the Lord's work..... It was our sacrifice and appreciation to the Lord.... It's all about Him..... Not about you and your wanna be Christian star.... The christian music business is a BUSINESS But not God's... Wake up..... We all had day jobs and tithed, but we looked at our abilities as gifts from God to serve him and proclaim His glory and share the good news
I, like many, have been playing for years and didn’t think about getting paid. My payment was having the opportunity to share my ministry gift; it always made me feel good in my soul. If anything, I was given a special offering and even then, really felt bad accepting. But my parents taught me, “don’t take away from someone else receiving a blessing so accept it.”
I play music, take care of the sound system and also as multimedia in our village ( Malaysia,Sabah ) church almost every week of the year. I never ask to be paid or paid to do all this, but there is a time when I miss worshiping in church without any service. most memorable for me was dividing my time in the rehearsals.I'm just small farmer.
I been playing for 18 years and never charged a dime. You have time in your schedule to practice and perform without charging, give God his time. I believe that we are all compensated when we are in heaven for our works. Paying for lodging and transportation is a must I would agree. If your in a church less then 300 members find a job and devote your time to the lord and start slacking off during sermon backstage . Get your butt in the chair and here the word of God.
If a church organization has the funds, then yes. Bless the musicians…. Specially if the expectations are high. It takes years of practice, knowledge, and a lot of money in gear to give what a lot of churches are asking for.
It's simple - pay the musicians!!! There is nothing wrong with getting paid to sustain your life even if working as a worship musician - all the better! New to this channel, Travis you are genuine and humble and really appreciated you were courageous enough to address the topic. People take for granted the music happens spontaneously - it's a ton of work!
Not sure why this is still a touchy topic for anyone in 2023. Of course they should. AND WELL!!!!! Especially, if they’re a professional. We have families and bills to pay too. And most of us have gotten in debt to study the craft and play at the level we do. Have respect for the gifts. Can’t conceive how this isn’t a common practice and principle in the year of our Lord 2023 lol. It’s amazing how we laud and say how pivotal it is to the human experience and in the same breath devalue it and take it for granted.
35+ years as a career musician here. Of all the church gigs I've done, the best churches always pay their personnel something substantial to keep them interested in showing up every Sunday, Wednesday and Saturday for rehearsal/Saturday service. The churches that expected everyone to show up and play for free oftentimes ended up calling me in as a sub because they couldn't keep a drummer, and those music programs were usually the same five songs every week. Not exactly inspiring to a congregation. Paying people for their talent endows a blessing unto them,and that blessing shall be returned one-hundredfold in enthusiasm and willingness to show up and be a part of the "production team" and give the people what they want, a good show!
I’m one of the few musicians not paid in my team and I won’t take it either because I can’t afford to leave work for additional services and events when I can’t be there. Yes, it’s a lot of work to practice and taking my own time but I do it with a giving heart and love it. Also fortunate and blessed to have a church that can pay for my gear and accessories needed.
Well said brother and spirit filled commentary.... also, there are scriptures about musicians being Levites and a portion of the tithing was reserved for them as well after rendering service in the tabernacle (local church) and temples. Numbers 18:24....2Timothy 3: 16- 17...and there is nothing wrong with getting compensation from your local church as long as you are a Tither.
I’m 44 yrs old, I’ve been leading/playing music in church since I was 16, never have I desired to get paid, this is my service to my Lord as a grateful response to His wonderful saving grace.
Thank you for covering this touchy topic. You did it with respect, class and an unbiased perspective. You have a great spirit and your heart is in the right place. Again, I can’t thank you enough. -A former church musician who still plays out on occasion.
I am very thankful that you highlighted that Music is a ministry and not just a payday. We have to realize the importance of music and how this reaches people. But also on the other hand, we have to care for our musicians as they do for our ministries.
@@thymick5581 I don't understand your comment. All I am saying is that if preachers are being paid (Salary or through the offering), then others who help outed out with the service should be paid too.
There are several cases, parables and requests in the bible for paying pastors/priests and workers within the church. Its been commonplace to pay pastors/priests since the beginning of the church. Most sects require seminary school or some sort of school of theology and the guiding principle is that if you are working a 40 hour full time job you are just limiting the time that the priest/pastor can attend to their church so you only hurt the church if you dont pay the pastor/priest church workers. Most churches pay the priests/clergy by providing for their needs and given them stipends In reference to the necessity of ensuring that clergy and church workers are well taken care of: 2 Thessalonians 3:7-10 , "For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat." A parable or reference to what happens when the clergy is well taken care of : Philippians 4:16-19 , "Even in Thessalonica you sent me help for my needs once and again. Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that increases to your credit. I have received full payment, and more. I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God. And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus." In reference to ensuring that clergy are paid and taken care of so that they can attend to their spiritual duties . 1 Corinthians 9:9-14 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel. St Luke also appeals to paying pastors/priests basically saying do you want your priests to serve tables or serve the church in Acts 6:2 "And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables.”" There are plenty of references. Technically its more against the bible not to pay for people who work for the church.
Yes!! The church should absolutely pay their musicians for the services rendered. The world pays their guest musicians handsomely, why shouldn't the church? Now, I get that some churches can only give so much and I've helped minister in many of those churches; those experiences were a blessing to me. I gigged from the mid 90's to the mid 2000's as a sax player. I played at many churches and only a handful paid me. Of course, my focus was serving Jesus and the church, but it got to the point where I was losing money. I also understand the saxophone is an auxiliary instrument and not the core of the band, but every dollar amount helps, large or small.
As long as we're separating the premise of a musician in the local church vs a "guest musician", this makes sense. If you're being brought to another church to supplement/sit in/train, then I see nothing wrong with getting paid/receiving a love offering. And the only situation where I feel it's appropriate for local church musicians getting paid is if that is now their livelihood, hired as staff. I think most praise teams are made up of members who have regular jobs and, as you mentioned, this is a ministry and service to the body of Christ and that church.
I feel ya bro 😎 in every sense. There was this church in Pico Rivera that I used to help out, and they used to give me $20 but that church was fire 🔥 and I felt a sense of belonging, even-though it wasn’t my church. So sometimes your spirit will tell you to go because you’re gonna get blessed in a miraculous way!!
Hey Travis, I am Andrue from Jamaica. Love your presentation brother; I couldn't agree with you more with all that you've said. I'm a bass player myself, and have treated like as you were. But that's a nice gesture. Thanks for using this medium to express how you feel about how musicians have been treated over the years; and this is something that the Church and other organizations need to look into. After all, why should we be less treated, when we are always playing that integral part at the different events, shows, concerts
Great video and a conversation that must be had if this is how you make a living. In my area, unfortunately, the big churches with multi-million dollar budgets usually run on volunteers (ie. free). They have 3 services a week and a day for practice but aside from the music pastor, and maybe one chief musician, musicians generally don't get paid. And on the flip side, I know of smaller Presbyterian, methodist churches (50-75 people) who may only have the budget for one pianist, but they pay that person per service. Unbelievable. What ends up happening in the big churches is musicians get burned out so they don't commit...they get put on a schedule about once a month, and unfortunately the music sounds ok but could be better. Personally, I think it's shameful when big mega-churches don't do any budget for the musicians, I mean, these churches have coffee shops and even a free coffee (good coffee) goes a long way. More often than not, the musicians themselves, or volunteers in the church end up buying food (I'll bring the bagels, someone else the juice, someone else, fruit, etc) for the team. I'm down with volunteering and yes, it is a ministry, but I wish mega-churches (in my area at least) put a little bit higher value into the volunteerism that happens (from musicians, to production team, the people running the cameras, sound board, the teleprompters, etc)....Just my 2 cents.
I ever go to a mega² church which is one of the biggest in the world I get the opportunity to go behind the scenes and know their budget for musician and all (my close friend is the brother of their main guitarist) They do mix of volunteers and paid What i see is that the volunteers were usually ppl that have work/business of their own, and the paid musicians is the one that just play music for living And also they have like a buffet of foods every service (for ppl who serve only) Its a really nice food, ranged from like pizza to sushi and stuffs
Great approach about this subject, nobody can imagine the number of hours for a musician get ready with any new song. And this cost should be compensated. I love your bass tips.
Travis...love the channel. I have played in and out of church for over 30 years and never been paid for a church gig. I also havent had to choose between a paid gig and serving in church and that would definitely put a different perspective on it. I have a good job and am able to only play what i want, when i want and do so just for my enjoyment not financial gain. My $.02.
I have never had a problem with bringing up money in the church! Most churches want dependable and capable people to handle the service. It cost to have musicians that can carry out the duties of a worship service!!! Great video sir!!!!
I think that's the right mindset to have. I don't think musicians should ever ask to be paid, because they shouldn't have to. I think the church leadership should be the ones to acknowledge the time spent and willingness to serve and be willing to give back to those that do.
The pastor gets paid, WHY not the ministry of music? The Levite musicians got benefits for the tithes as well as the priests. IT was their job. They had no part in the division of the promised land. It's likeness of being dependent on the congratulation's tithes for their living.
I played lead guitar at my local church and the time involved was considerable. When they didn’t have a specific instrument covered they would hire someone but we were not paid.
I’ve played in churches over 50 year span. Never once even thought of getting paid for it. God gave the talent to worship him. I can’t think of charging him for playing. It’s much deeper than this. Glory to God always!
I Thank you very much for this video. At times I do feel musicians are not truly respected. I am a bassist and a guitarist. Been playing for many years At one point felt depressed. I own several basses and guitars as well. Was about to sell everything just give it all up. I felt at one point it was just a total waste. A friend of mine I ran into have not seen in many years. We had a conversation about how i felt he’s a singer. He said to me it is a gift God has given me, no one can do what you can do , how you do itI froze when he said that. I went back to scriptures psalms 149 and 150. “Praise him with the strings and pipe”. It hit me like a bolt of lighting the Lord doesn’t just honor singers!!. I am just as important to God as the singer.. It is a gift from God that I play bass and guitar he wants me to praise him with both of them…your video is a confirmation of the importance of rehearsal the sacrifice it takes to perform .I for now on play both my instruments as long as I live.. Thanks again Travis on this video it is a blessing to me
I recently stepped into my music full-time (not really by choice), and having grown up playing in church, I found hiring myself out to other churches to be a solid way to bridge the gap. My pastor and I actually spoke about it the other week and he brought up the point that having to work on Sunday isn't an evil thing, and pastors are "working" on Sundays, too. He also reminded me that it doesn't matter so much what church you go to, as long as you're a part of the global Church, despite denominations or granular beliefs. You video was a great insight into what it's like to actually be a paid professional in the field.
This is a great video. I've been a working church musician since I was 12 years old and received $30 per month as a salary. I've played for churches that paid musicians and I have played for those that didn't. Over 40 years I've seen this debate go back and forth and I will say this - if the musician is a blessing to the church then the church should be a blessing to the musician. In college, I worked full-time as a TSA, 20 hours in the engineering lab, and played for 3 different churches in 3 different cities to get through college (I was an electrical engineering major with a whole load of classes simultaneously). I was so exhausted that I fell asleep in the middle of the day while driving and totaled my car. I'm blessed to be alive. A friend of mine that played for the college choir told me about a church that needed a musician. I reached out to them. I was interviewed and after the interview they hired me. That church paid me $200 a week to be the church musician and to work with 5 different choirs but that was enough money for me to get another car, get married to the love of my life, and graduate with my engineering degree. When the church as a whole starts to look at the roles they have that they can compensate I think they should. You don't know what that can do for a musician and his family. Biblically, I think in Number 18, it talks about how all the offerings were taken to take care of the temple. That included an offering for the Levites - the musicians. I could be wrong on that but I do believe it is right to take care of your musicians financially. Thanks for this video.
Only speaking for myself. I will occasionally volunteer my time and skills to my home church. However, I've ceded all my other church gigs. Between California's gig law, and then COVID, my $300 four-hour (rehearsal, two services) gigs became "we can W-2 you @ $24/hr - or < $100 gross. I admit my sense of goodwill expired. It pains me to hear from choirs and members of the congregation how the quality of musicianship has suffered, but I just figure - hey, let the young cats take the $100 gigs. Time for me to pass the work on to the next generation.
Same here, bro. I helped out at many different churches for a decade and just called it a day. I constantly heard from church leaders how their music needed to improve, but when it came to compensation...crickets.
Great advice. The world of flesh and blood operates on money, regardless of our spiritual triumphs and connections. We have spent a LOT of time and money on learning how to be good musicians. A church is a business, every single one. Musicians need to understand this. We need to eat, just like the pastor and the deacons, we deserve to get paid.
I have been blessed to play in churches for about 30 years ( side note, I should be better than I am for the time I’ve been playing) and the majority has been free. Especially if it was my home church. The first church I got paid at was so small I felt too bad taking their money so I put it back in the offering. That said I have played a few churches that paid regularly and the standard rate has been $75 per service.
I used to make the exact same statement ten years ago, but I have since forgiven myself for only being as good as I am (after all 40+ years). You and I got started before RUclips and the host of other free (or nearly free) online resources were a thing. I bet you: 1. don't play to put food on the table 2. that you didn't go to school for music and 3. that you have a day job. Take advantage of the resources that are available now, but also give yourself a break.
It's always a tough call doing work for churches...and you're right, the church's budget is what it is...some churches have a budget and some dont. I've always gone by...if I can personally afford the gas, time, travel expenses etc...sure I'll help a church out. But...this is also your profession...so there's nothing wrong with being paid for what you do. It does make it awkward having God in the mix...some people use that point to manipulate and get stuff for free and some use God to bless outside musicians, producers, etc financially. I love your tip about opening the door to talk about finances...it's actually the same way I handled it..the "what is your budget for this..." is perfect!
If other members of the church staff expect to be compensated (ie pastoral staff, music director, bookkeepers, etc) why would there be a different expectation for musicians?
@@thymick5581 With respect and love, I disagree… especially in the context of a person like Travis who supports his family as musician. If an individual wants to volunteer their services, great! (I’ve been a volunteer musician and FOH sound tech) but what the video addresses is the often significant time required and expense that putting on quality production requires.
I have to say Travis that you did a wonderful job of covering this topic. I just entered my sixth decade of playing music for which I have been paid to play though often not very much lol. There was a period in Sydney when playing guitar supplemented by FOH work was my primary source of income. These days I'm in south Florida playing small secular gigs and have found my first ever calling to play in a praise band at a local church. Initially I volunteered my time even though I knew other musicians were being paid. Everyone in the band either is or has been a professional musician. A few months ago a new pastor came in, heard the band and insisted that due to the time commitment I should be paid as well and after much thought and prayer I accepted. I based this on the pastor's sincerity on wanting me to accept and the fact that the hours I put into the guitar parts for five songs every week are far greater than the money I receive. Your video made me feel a lot more comfortable with my decision.
This is a totally valid statement about that. You can tithe the time and expenses or return a portion of the money, but there IS a lot of work, gear, travel, time and also it is part of your worship life. Not everyone can do music in front of hundreds or thousands of people! It is a skill just like all other aspects of jobs in the church. People SHOULD be offered the chance to be paid for it as the budget allows. How many people change churches or go to other services BECAUSE of the music and how it enhances worship and helps people come closer to God?!? Please talk to your pastors people. It helps as now you get a clue that it isn't just showing up and playing. Most groups invest 3-10 hours a week in rehearsal for a service or mass before they play. That doesn't usually include independent practice time. That also doesn't always include travel. Most church musicians have full time jobs outside of their music ministry.
Solid points done very tactful. I would say when it comes to a home church, my approach is voluntary. Our church gives so much back that it would feel like robbery to take a salary as a “staff guitarist”. However, as you’ve pointed out so well, when it’s outside of that scope there should be some kind of compensation.
I’ve been paid for playing churches for over 35 years. Played for free at my home church for 16 years. The paid Church Guitarist “career” just came to me without seeking it. I believe the Lord led me into it, and I continue to get hired at churches at age 65. I’ll keep playing as long as the Lord gives me the ability.
Thank you for this content. I too am a musician in both the secular stance and worship. Things changed for me when a key member of the media team left now I am more in an engineering roll and what you have said still holds true. On top of all this I also have a day job that really restricts my flexibility but allows me use both sides to make a service special.. it is not easy... So I thank The Lord for you and the content you published for both sides to consider, Stat Blessed!
I totally forgot to mention this in this video, but I do not get paid to play in my local church. I made this video more for the perspective of people getting invited to play at churches or church events that they don't weekly attend or call their church home.
Are you with UPC? And, why don’t you get paid? I’m sorry to hear that.
Has your local church ever offered to pay you? I don’t demand to be paid when I go to visit other churches, however they generally have the etiquette to pay me anyways. I’ve only had one church in my life that demanded I give them a price. I was just helping them out and I didn’t care about the money but I did tell them a price eventually because they kept bugging me. I head the music and art department and I’m the worship coordinator at my local church. I get paid and proudly say that my church takes care of me because I take care of God’s people in worship. If they say hey we can’t pay you anymore I would still do what I’ve been doing for free.
I make sure every musician who plays at the church gets paid. You don’t know their story and what financial bind they’re in. I remember waiting until Sunday to get my check because my cell phone was scheduled to be disconnected on Monday lol
@@DOC2089you are definitely right about not knowing someone’s story, and how they’ve sowed in times of feast and famine. The true problem today is some people forget that musicians (etc) are a part of the body that needs care…….
Travis, do you think musicians should get paid to play at their local/home church?
Exactly
As a pastor and musician, I can tell you biblically you are worthy to be paid. I've yet heard anyone question if the musicians for secular artist are paid. Great video.
Good video. I played keyboard at my church for two years, yes, people don't realize the time sacrifice of practice, rehearsal, live performance, cost of song and instrument material, learning your craft so yes I believe a musician should be compensated from time to time.But other members volunteer and contribute without compensation. I contributed time doing several other duties at my church without compensation. Our service is a ministry for Christ not a pay job, but I feel a love offering should be given to musicians from time to time.
You are suppose to be playing to and for God not money
@@ronhoffman7941 Noone is saying He is not playing FOR GOD... IT is biblical to pay your Levites.. Some churches don't pay their musicians and if that is their way of doing work fine. Then as a musician you have the right to do as you want whether to play or not. Getting paid or not does not make you a better follower of Christ. It is when people who get paid jump from sermon to sermon and forget about the needs and the importance of their home church that it then becomes an issue.
@@srivera001995 glory be to God the giver of all gifts also if he is not playing for God whats he doing there the musicians i know playing at church
I grow up in the church I’m professional musician, i did worship many years for free, but sometimes the people and the churches don’t understand the sacrifices that a musician go trough, the 90% of professional musician who made music college and all of that, they can’t work a normal job because they spend 4 or 8 years or their life in a university to obtain a degree in music. They can choose to play with real artist the can show to play with non Christians bands, but they doesn’t do it because they love God. nothing will happens if the church pay their musicians. You’re not God to judge them first thing first. you’re part of a family that help others. Let’s said the truth there’re churches that their pastor get paid better than any executive and CEO..
I played for mega and mid to small churches as well as a bass guitar player. I truly put God first in my life. I think there should be a pay compensation why then hire snd pay a minister of music to play piano and organ yet not pay the other musicians. but these churches will pay music artists such as Kirk Franklin , Yolanda Adams and so on who all will get in front of an audience and tell you all about praising God and you not to put God first . then why pay them and why are they taking money so why is it different fir any other musician. then they got corruption going on up to sometimes the church leadership. Come on I gotta have Record out on the airwaves to get paid at a church while all the while tell others to just have faith when you want things. quit the brainwashing. The minister of music gets paid why???
Speaking for myself only! To me it's not about money, it's about serving the lord with the talent that he gave me!
I'm happy just seeing somebody enjoy my music, the smiles or a tear of happiness.
This is how I have always felt . I don't ask to get paid . It's for the Lord .. and my gift is to be used to win souls . That isn't the only thing I do for the Lord . But its for the Lord
Imagine if the pastor changed the set list last minute on you though... If you're being paid, it's fine. If you're not paid, you just wasted a couple hours learning songs.
@GingerJoberton lol idk if u or anyone who plays by set list will be able to Play with our praise team . We play by improvising . We learn the songs that are new . But after learning the chord progression we just play . Sometimes we pull out something we haven't played in years and u learning it as we play . But again we let the holy ghost lead our services and in us . Haven't fail yet and yea maybe we miss a note here and there but it's all playing music by ear .
@GingerJoberton like I said .. this is me personally. I do it for God . Only Jesus. If people want to offer to give me a love offering for playing music in there church .. then fantastic . But I don't need money to play music I love being where the holy ghost is . I love doing anything and everything for God just because I love it . I work tho . So I'm not even hurting for money.. bur I have had people offer to pay me . And I declined . It's not about them it's not about me it's not about the music it's about Jesus and his spirit moving through people it's about in hopes someone's surrenders and start praying though the holy ghost .. shot .. sometimes the spirit moves so strong .. I step down from playing.. and go praise and worship and pray for others who are close to getting the holy ghost
@@bryanrios146 careful of your holier than thou way you're writing dude, I think you're trying to be nice through gritted teeth. It's not nice. Enjoy your music. I agree with the video. Pay musicians, don't degrade art. Freebies are ok.
Having been self employed for the past 20+ years... keep doing what you're doing!
I would say change the wording of your question from "Is there a budget...?" to "What is the budget...?".
If they truly don't have a budget they'll tell you, but if they do have a budget they generally won't say no. "Is there a budget" gives them wiggle room. It's subtle but effective.
I just had a conversation with my mom about this on Sunday. Some feel they shouldn't pay musicians if they are members of the church. They think you should be using your talents for God and not for pay. But like you said, all the hours you put into learning songs, rehearsals, and providing your expertise should be rewarded. Also, getting a return on the investment of your instruments, equipment and musical education is no different from a Pastor getting paid to prepare sermons and having to pay for his theology education. Thanks for the video Travis
Also, there are others on the payroll who DO NOT put in the work nor the dedication that these musicians are and are still getting some type of appreciation.
Not if that talent is your work that feeds and pay your bills that’s a decision for the musician to make not the church.
"all the hours you put into learning songs, rehearsals, and providing your expertise should be rewarded"
It is. Your reward is the ability to play music in praise of the Lord. If you don't get that, then church ain't for you. #YallNeedJesus
THAT'S RIGHT!!! Ask a MEMBER of the church who's a contractor to add-on to a building project (or something)
what do you think would happen!??!
@@DarylDCChestnut So... you're envious? Ya know that's a sin right?
Seriously, y'all are REALLY only going to church for the social club aspect. Just go play bars or clubs. Sounds like that's what you wanna do anyways.
@Travis Dykes I am really greatful🙏 you checking into this boxes, I am anticipating on more videos of a life of musician behind the scenes.
As a bass player myself this was insightful and informative because most churches/people don't understand what goes on behind scenes 👍🏾
I know exactly what your saying.
"You have a guitar. Your supposed to know every song ever written". One @$$#○£€ complained that we spent "too much time tuning up".
In one church, some of the congregants said I was too big and "scary looking" to play on the worship team, even though I was the only member who could read and transpose music.
I was even told at one church not to "play too well, because it would hurt another member's self confidence".
I WILL NEVER, EVER PLAY MUSIC AT A CHURCH, EVER AGAIN. EVER. WHETHER THEY PAY ME OR NOT.
I spent 12 years dealing with this churchy Bu//$#¡T.
Never again.
Now I ONLY play secular gigs......for MONEY.
@@m.loughlin1915completely agree with the preconception many members have on their musicians. Especially when it comes to ones who play instruments, the other I was told to tone down my playing as "it was distracting the vocalists and they can't hold a tune." The same vocalists in questions without fail, never practice the songs, never remember the lyrics, and skulk whenever notes are given at practice. I get that there's time where my sound isn't what the song calls for or I'm either rushing or dragging a bit. That's on me. But I'm not gonna play a completely different song or simplify a song for those who don't care enough to know how the opening harmonies go to the song we're playing.
Thank you for the excellent topic and video. I personally went from a gigging musician in bars/weddings for 30-years to only playing in my church (now for 3-years). For me personally, I am most grateful for the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ; He saved me. So I am glad to serve, not entertain. May he use us all to reveal His glory.
Musician here. Thank you for a perspective from both sides my brother. This was really good. God bless
In our church we are given a love gift. No fixed value though but it feels great that our efforts get recognized by our church leaders as much as we get recognized by God
Very important topic! It’s good to have both perspectives.
I typically go in expecting nothing and only accept or decline based on whether I’m cool with that or not. IF I am paid, it is always a blessing. Either way, I’m pouring my heart and soul into learning and mastering the setlists. God sees it all and will bless either way.
that is why church is a good business, free workers
Travis, thank you so much for this very insightful video. I’ve been a professional bass player for almost 40 years now living in Nashville Tennessee. I played at a very prominent church in Nashville for over 18 years(that was my home church) and never received any pay for that and I was OK with that. That said, I have been asked to play at many churches, both in Nashville, and also out of town. I do not have another day job, my job is being a musician. Let me preface that my father was a pastor for over 25 years so I understand “ministry“&”calling “. But I also reference the scripture that says “a workman is worthy of his hire”(Luke 10:7). While talking about money in the church can be awkward, it doesn’t have to be. There were times when churches would hire me, and then all of a sudden, they would say, “we’re not going to pay any more.” While I understand, giving your gifts to the church, and even volunteering. As a professional, this is what I do for a living and so many times, I am not paid for the hours of preparation(woodshedding,traveling,writing charts, etc) that I do to bring my proverbial A game to whatever setting I am playing. There was one instance, where a church decided after a couple of years of paying me to come and play that they weren’t going to pay me again to which I said to them if the air conditioning went out in their church, they wouldn’t expect a repairman to come and fix it for free. Some(no all) churches want professional musicians to raise the bar of musicianship, but guilt them into feeling like “if you love, Jesus, you’ll do this for free”. Again, thank you so much for this wonderful video and God bless you and your family. 🙏🏼
This is just a "sick practice" that must be eradicate from the church.
There’s a Harvard lecture series on RUclips called “Doing the Right Thing” that set me straight on getting paid for my art. The basic concept is that our labor belongs to God, so we’re not at liberty to give it away. If I wanted to offer my services to a church in the form of music, and my other gigs or my day job covered my expenses, I’d negotiate something like $10 to pay for a sandwich. There has to be something, or else the transaction is a sin from both sides - particularly covetousness from the side of the recipient. Of course our sins are forgiven, but we’re entitled to compensation for our labor. I’d say if the church leaders won’t at least provide you a modest lunch for your efforts, then you’re fine to decline - but I doubt a church would decline a great deal for ten bucks.
OK if you're a professional musician and you're playing at somewhere other than your home church then that's a different scenario
I've played in praise bands for 20 + years and never thought about being paid. I started playing in the church I'm in now and was shocked when they said they were paying me and I struggled with it for about six months. Now I'm at the point that I realize, it is work no matter how much fun it is and it does take away from family life, but I also take it more seriously as a job and put more time into practice.
Thank you Travis for a very insightful video. Congregants have no earthly idea how much time, effort, and money it takes to play an instrument in a worship setting. I have made it a ministry my whole life starting at the age of 12 playing in church. I have also worked in traveling groups. 95% of the time I took no money even for expenses because I have been financially blessed by my regular job. Your handling of the matter is perfect. Keep on sharing and expanding the horizons of ministry leadership.
I agree with you Travis. What you are doing by coaching, teaching, mentoring other musicians and also playing for certain events you should get paid. That should be talked about from the church perspective up front before you even show up especially if you are driving several hours and spending the night in a hotel. I like what you posted afterward about not being paid by your local church. The way I look at this is I am using my talents that the Lord has given me as a drummer for the Lord and giving back to my church. The Lord does not want us to simply give money to the church. He wants us to give of our talents as well. Thanks for the great content and for speaking on that "taboo" subject of getting paid by the church.
Thank you for addressing this. I appreciate how professional you are, and really seem to have a great spirit. I help out a few churches and get paid to play bass. This is a big help to them on either short-term (like their bassist is on hiatus), or longer term giving them a little boost in musicianship. I'm upfront about what I'm able to do practice-wise (no mid-week practice), and that I ask for payment. In return they get an experienced musician who: show's up on time and prepared, dresses appropriately for the type of church, and has a positive and friendly attitude. I'm greatful for them all, and I believe they are happy to have me.
Absolutely…. Support goes both ways … money is just 1 way to honor your members
Thank you for this honest and genuine commentary. I believe church musicians should be paid and taken care of by the ministry. I pray more ministries come to this understanding. Thanks and blessings for your input.
Nope, it’s already enough that our lord gifted me the ability to play instruments, the least I could do is use that gift to worship him, sacrifice time if necessary, he will bless me in his own ways for my sacrifices.
@@miguelmedina1132that's your truth. Everyone has one.
This is your first video that I have watched and the financial point you have raised is a very close matter of my heart. I have made a video, specifically a sermon upon this 'touchy' subject. The gist of the sermon is this: God understands the need for musicians in worship, and God meets the needs of the musicians. We see the above two aspects in the Old Testament's account of public worship in Israel. God has chosen the Levites as labourers initially while Israel was travelling to the promised land. In the promised land, the Levites were the musicians leading the people in public worship. Yes, God has chosen the musicians [Levites] to worship Him in this way: totally dedicated musicians. God has also made provision for the needs of the Levites. Apart from dwelling places around the temple, they were also provided 48 cities with their suburbs [for grazing their livestock]. FURTHER MORE, GOD COMMANDED THE REST OF THE TRIBES TO PAY THEIR TITHES TO THE LEVITES! The Levites in turn were asked to pay their tithes to the priests, this being called as the tithe of tithes.
In the New Testament, all believers are called to be priests, our chief priest being Jesus Christ. Christians are asked to sing while suffering in the world just as Jesus sang a hymn after the last supper and while on the cross. Paul and Silas sang when in prison and the so did the persecuted early church at Rome when thrown to devouring beasts. I doubt whether present day musicians would have the courage to take up their drums and guitars to play music while the suffering Christians were singing:).
In a church, believers are asked to:
Eph 5:19
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Col 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Pay attention to these phrases in the above two verses: 'SPEAKING TO YOURSELVES', SINGING AND MAKING MEODY TO THE LORD', and 'TEACHING AND ADMONISHING ONE ANOTHER' Consider these three phases and you will have a good sermon from them.
The mention of PSALMS in both the verses above imply this: the singing has to be accompanied by the playing of music instruments and, if this playing is done by skilful musicians, the worship will be elevated to a greater level of joy and unity.
In the early church the Apostles gave their services freely and paid with their lives for the faith. Paul worked for his livelihood as a tent maker but was used by God to carry out a ministry, along with Silas, to turn the world upside down. Paul exhorted the elders of the church at Ephesus not to covet gold and silver and lucre and gave himself as an example of such a life. The very same Paul also mentions that elders who labour in the Word and worthy of double honour and that the labourer is worthy of hire. A church elder [be he an apostle, prophet, evangelist or pastor and teacher] is qualified to receive WAGES only, not TITHES.
Now what about skilled musicians being paid for their services? Let me state that the Levites had not only the role of leading worship but also had other duties to perform such as keeping charge of the temple and teaching the public about the law of God. There is no free ride in the church FOR ANY BELIEVER! Every saint has to do a work in the church! Seeing the importance of music and singing in church services, it will be nice for the church to appoint called and talented musicians to be elders or deacons for the church and, apart from playing instruments/singing at church services, use them for meeting the other needs of the church in the ministry. Such musical elders and deacons can be paid wages by the church.
My wife and I have been worship leaders in our own local churches, and we've never been paid or offered. Small churches, about 5 hrs per week total effort prep and performing no bid deal.
When we've accepted invites to other congregations, they've always offered to pay us, and we've always politely declined. Nothing wrong with offering or accepting payment, we just prefer to serve without it.
Feel rhe very same way .
Thank GOD for this Brother Bass Player! Keep On Jammin' For Jesus!!! 👍💯
I am a volunteer bassist for my church. We have 3 other volunteer bassists, 4 drummers, 2 guitarists, all volunteers. The keyboard/piano player is paid and a pro musician. I have learned sooo much from the other bassists- who are 🔥, by the way, I get to play through a state of the art, professional concert sound system that is just stupidly loud and clear because we just recently built a new church that we saved for 20 years to build and it is such a blessing from God! I’m ok with not being paid money to play bass on the praise team because I’m getting so much more out of serving God on this ministry. HOWEVER, I completely understand that if playing bass is how you make a living to support your family and yourself, then absolutely you should be paid, and paid well. ❤
I am totally against it. I am a musician and I know from experience that it's wrong. And most of them are only playing for money. And some don't live for God. They only do it for money. But this is not all of them. You just have to be careful and not put a burden on the members for the greed of musicians. And again, this ain't all musicians. I've seen many of them brag about just playing, not working and having sex.
But doing it on the level you Travis does it, by driving 4 hours, learning lots of songs, then yeah get paid. But make sure it's for the glory of God 1st. 12:25
Great video, Travis demonstrating a day in the life of a church musician that travels. The line, “Man, we’re asking a lot of him and we don’t even have a budget?” is especially right on when you’re expected to play for free.
Well done addressing a topic that needs to be addressed more in the church! (Numbers 18:21-32)
I play bass at my church. I started playing for free 7 years ago. A couple years ago they offered to pay me they had been paying the pianist/vocalist. I appreciated them recognizing my growth and commitment as a musician. I never though I would say I was a paid musician.
Awesome!
You’re not a paid musician. You got a donation.
People go to church to worship Christ, not see you play your U2 cover band. They’d still be there if you weren’t there.
@@chillmusic5629
Yeah. Yeah they go to listen to your dreadful music. Of course.
And I’m the pompous one! 😂
@@adamg.manning6088 how do you know who I am out what I get? I get a check for a set amount as does our drummer and pianist. I don't know what church you go to but maybe you need go upgrade to a better grade of musician. Or is it you wish you had an iota of musical ability that someone would pay you 🤷🏿♂️
I just thank God for giving an opportunity to worship him. That’s all I need and am satisfied.
I think it’s great that you are sharing the grind of a working musician. There is a lot of sacrifice and time that is not seen. Your content is entertaining, informative and enlightening! Keep killing it on the bass!!💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
I think we should get a little something maybe not every week. But sometimes. I've been blessed with money lunch and other things. And I didn't ask for anything. But churches should consider this. Music is a big part of the service.
Travis as the bass player at the church I attend , I agree with you , after Jesus said a workman is worthy of his hire as the son of a preacher I know when they preach out , they usually get paid something , if a musician is asked to travel and play then they should be compensated . Lol my church only has 2 musicians ... nothing fancy going on here just sing unto the lord hymns luv you bro.
You have an excellent perspective and approach to this very touchy topic. Long ago I was a volunteer musician at my church. (Definitely not professional grade!) we had a mix of of volunteers and paid pros. It was never a conflict and I learned a ton!
As a full time musician you need to be able to support your family.
If you're a pro musician, do session work, or play gigs for your money.
It's wrong to expect payment for your worship.
Don't mess with God
@@spiffymongo4030 preachers get payed also we dont expect to be payed but some apreciation for your time and effort is not out of place and I specifically mean service outside of your home church because if someone asks you to play somewere then you ar emost likely leaving your own place making time for said event its not wrong to accept a compensation
It depends on the church, their budget, does the worship team bring in money, how many practices and time is put in, etc. I played drums at a well known church at the age of 13-17 and we were professionals. Other churches reached out to us for events or as an example for their church and we would get paid aka an offering of thanks. He were a pretty big group including air instruments. We had to travel in a bus. We also brought in money for the church therefor the church would share it with us in order to help pay for gas, meals, upgrading/maintenance on our instruments, etc. our church became very financially blessed largely in part due to our worship team. We played English and Spanish songs including writing our own music. We played in white, Hispanic, black, and Asian churches. With all that said, it was some what of a partime-full time job for some of us due to the time we took in writing the music, practices, etc. Did we expect to get paid? No of course and at first we didn’t receive anything until we began bringing a significant amount of money.
You handled this with beautiful grace. Totally get your heart. Never heard anyone talk about this before. I am a professional musician and music teacher. I have given up a night's teaching to attend rehearsals as well as learn the material throughout the week. Would be nice to be paid a small amount to cover the evening's income, but.... I consider this as a part of my offering to the church and the privilege it is to play for the King of Kings.
I’ve been playing and leading worship from the keyboard for over 20 years now. For the first 15 years I never got paid. It was always an act of service.
However, when the church asked me to become the worship Director, it required additional responsibilities. We have a monday meeting for Planning services and debrief. We have several monthly meetings to discuss technical elements of the service, on boarding new musicians, and planning for special events. It also requires me to spend about 3 to 5 hours per week, organizing songs, preparing for the service, making sure musicians are available and ready, and showing up early and leaving late on Sundays.
The church begin to pay me, and it was just enough for me to be able to justify quitting my job and picking up other part-time work. If the church was not paying me, I would not be able to be at any of these meetings.
It wasn’t until I laid out the fact that I was spending nearly 15 hours a week, working on services, programs, music, and meetings that they realized that it was more than just playing on Sundays
As a photographer, I have found that when you do work for free or at a discount, the recipient places no value on your skills, time, expenses, etc.
...and generally more demanding of what you provide, especially weddings.
I’m speaking as a guitar and piano player who’s played for little to no money over 20 + years. The answer is, unequivocally YES! With that said, it looks so bad when musicians don’t feel like part of the service, except for the part when they are on. Specially with the you get kids, who constantly complain for not having platforms in church and for not getting enough attention from the church. Yet, once they’re done singing/playing they run to the courtyard, to the other parts of the sanctuary and completo disregard other parts, especially the sermon.
A few comments…
One, bro your videos are great! The B roll, the sounds fading in and out, I watched the whole video from start to finish and that’s hard for me. Cheers to your content consumption, I can tell you’ve been doing research.
Two, the way you gracefully presented this topic as well as giving instruction on how to address it professionally is essential. It lets the younger cats know how to handle it, in any music gig scenario.
Three, and I’ll close here. I’ve been playing in church for most to all of my Music career, heck, my life. It wasn’t until parents called it out that I was the only one not getting paid because I was a teen, or maybe not as valuable. But I didn’t mind because I was also taught servitude and how everything I do, I should do it for Gods glory. So I found joy in just playing. Also, For months at my other church, I was driving 30/40 minutes 3-4 times a week to play, rehearse, teach, and record because of that joy of doing it for God, and getting the resume experience…until I realized that my gas tank needed a drink. While it was not in the budget for the church to do checks at the time, someone from the church covered my gas the whole time. Since then I’ve been getting paid and given gear as well.
So this topic is scenario based. For any musician out there playing in church, you should play for God. When you play for God, you get paid by God in some way. Also, yes it is a ministry and also ran by humans who can and will use “servitude” as the title of the door mat they make you. My pastor said once, “don’t be a door knob and let everyone use you.” (It was really “don’t let everyone get a turn” but he was talking abo…nvm)
Thanks for the vid, it’s needed.
It is a touchy subject. But if the church hires musicians then yes. I always asked to be a part of the praise team. As a volunteer, then no. I felt it was a calling to do play a t church. Was honored to do so. The rewards that came from God was more than any church could ever pay me.
Yes... I'm a preacher's kid so I grew up in church. If a musician is professional (or more than a beginner player) they should be paid. They're paid to make sure they've practiced and have the proper gear. That said a lot of churches don't pay their musicians and if they can't that's fine. But I've seen churches that are not hurting for money not pay their musicians while expecting way too much from them (Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, funerals, weddings, practices, etc...) I've seen a lot of musicians get burned out. If they just want to play for the Lord they can always donate the money back.
Quoting Jesus in Luke 10:7 "...the laborer deserves his wage..."
I get paid to play for each service, events, and more for the church I play for. Practice usually takes 30-40 minutes which covers the entire weekend. Everyone comes prepared as it is required to come prepared. Occasionally if its something last minute we all listen and learn the song the day of rehearsals. Other than that, it is my full time job on the weekend. It covers my bills cuz musicians gotta eat and as a full time musician, this is my bread and butter, or bread and wine as one might say. =) -- This has also opened relationships to other musicians playing with choral groups, jazz groups, and local studio sessions which also paid well.
I am very thankful for the church i am thankful for the opportunities they give me.
For me personally I get paid at church. Im currently a college student and most college students I know at my university rely soley on church pay because it helps us with our field of study (music major) and it also helps us keep the sound sounding good (bass strings, amp, etc.) So i feel like there is really no down side to paying them.
Fellow college student, and I completely feel your brother. I don't get payed, but the experience in playing, practicing and performing certainly does help. But I'm happy you're living best life and getting help doing it! :)
I didn’t see anytime where you prepared yourself spiritually. Personally, that’s more of important than preparing musically.
I’ve had this conversation many times and it is a very touchy situation. My experience has been that of the piano player is the only one that gets paid in church and the reason given was if I, the drummer can’t be there the service can go on without me and with a piano player. I came out of a professional setting where I toured for 38 years and accepted Jesus, turned from the world and play in church only now. Church is a whole experience within itself, I’m encouraged not to say anything to weak musicians as to not hurt their feelings and discourage them where in a pro setting feelings don’t matter, playing the music right does.
I don’t get paid, never get a Thankyou, I just serve my God with the gift He gave me. The time put into playing in church is around 12 to 15 hours a week, it’s important to me to play skillfully and most important to be spiritually intact while doing it.
It’s a selfless task, nobody appreciates you unless your not there then your unfaithful.
I do this because I love God.
Great video! I wondered where you'd be playing when you said Columbus, and I've lived within a couple miles of that church for most of the past 20 years.
Outside of my time as a staff member, I have always expected and been willing to play as a volunteer in my home church (and the churches I've been a part of have been pretty small). But when I'm asked to play away from my home church on a Sunday, compensation is definitely an important consideration. And similarly, I would never expect an outside musician to come play for a service I was leading without being compensated. What is feasible within a particular congregation's budget is always going to vary, but the intent to treat musicians well is important. And, like you, I have also been blessed well beyond expectation by generous folks in the past.
Thanks for an honest approach to a difficult subject!
Thanks for sharing your perspective and insight.
I have been playing for churches for more than 20 years… Yes you should pay your musicians. When I was younger, I didn’t care either way but the more you realize the time that is spent on rehearsals, and practicing and services, it’s worth compensation. People have to understand that for some musicians we are the ones turning the lights on in the church and sometimes the last one to leave.
did it a decade nearly i was first in last out every week nearly. I ran the sound and was lead guitar then had to install all new live sound and run the show and perform. its not easy to do 85% of the workload yourself behind this im also tuning drums prior to start dialing in ear monitoring the house and wedges for the vocals and making a lot of the creative choices in new songs
There is no faster way to lose your anointing than to demand payment for your worship.
Music ministry is a labor of love, and carries great responsibility towards the congregation.
If you are a Christian, then you'll understand.
@@spiffymongo4030 I personally have never demanded to be paid. But you do have to know your worth. I have been favored enough to not have to demand but the day I have to, I have to retire.
So I guess when a pastor gets paid for his sermons, he losses his anointing? No because they will say “oh we’re just taking care of the pastor” lol
@Spiffy Mongo pastor gets paid nuff said..
I played for the Lord.... 2 services a Sunday and also had a Christian band that played Saturday nights.... We never charged.....the place we were playing might take up a love offering but we would give it back to the venue to help with the Lord's work..... It was our sacrifice and appreciation to the Lord.... It's all about Him..... Not about you and your wanna be Christian star.... The christian music business is a BUSINESS But not God's... Wake up.....
We all had day jobs and tithed, but we looked at our abilities as gifts from God to serve him and proclaim His glory and share the good news
I, like many, have been playing for years and didn’t think about getting paid. My payment was having the opportunity to share my ministry gift; it always made me feel good in my soul.
If anything, I was given a special offering and even then, really felt bad accepting. But my parents taught me, “don’t take away from someone else receiving a blessing so accept it.”
I play music, take care of the sound system and also as multimedia in our village ( Malaysia,Sabah ) church almost every week of the year. I never ask to be paid or paid to do all this, but there is a time when I miss worshiping in church without any service. most memorable for me was dividing my time in the rehearsals.I'm just small farmer.
I been playing for 18 years and never charged a dime. You have time in your schedule to practice and perform without charging, give God his time. I believe that we are all compensated when we are in heaven for our works. Paying for lodging and transportation is a must I would agree. If your in a church less then 300 members find a job and devote your time to the lord and start slacking off during sermon backstage . Get your butt in the chair and here the word of God.
Thaks for sharing, we need more open conversations and awareness!
If a church organization has the funds, then yes. Bless the musicians…. Specially if the expectations are high.
It takes years of practice, knowledge, and a lot of money in gear to give what a lot of churches are asking for.
It's simple - pay the musicians!!! There is nothing wrong with getting paid to sustain your life even if working as a worship musician - all the better! New to this channel, Travis you are genuine and humble and really appreciated you were courageous enough to address the topic. People take for granted the music happens spontaneously - it's a ton of work!
Not sure why this is still a touchy topic for anyone in 2023. Of course they should. AND WELL!!!!! Especially, if they’re a professional. We have families and bills to pay too. And most of us have gotten in debt to study the craft and play at the level we do. Have respect for the gifts. Can’t conceive how this isn’t a common practice and principle in the year of our Lord 2023 lol. It’s amazing how we laud and say how pivotal it is to the human experience and in the same breath devalue it and take it for granted.
Love this video. This is definitely a conversation that needs to be had more often in the church. Thank you for shining the light
35+ years as a career musician here. Of all the church gigs I've done, the best churches always pay their personnel something substantial to keep them interested in showing up every Sunday, Wednesday and Saturday for rehearsal/Saturday service.
The churches that expected everyone to show up and play for free oftentimes ended up calling me in as a sub because they couldn't keep a drummer, and those music programs were usually the same five songs every week. Not exactly inspiring to a congregation.
Paying people for their talent endows a blessing unto them,and that blessing shall be returned one-hundredfold in enthusiasm and willingness to show up and be a part of the "production team" and give the people what they want, a good show!
I’m one of the few musicians not paid in my team and I won’t take it either because I can’t afford to leave work for additional services and events when I can’t be there. Yes, it’s a lot of work to practice and taking my own time but I do it with a giving heart and love it. Also fortunate and blessed to have a church that can pay for my gear and accessories needed.
Well said brother and spirit filled commentary.... also, there are scriptures about musicians being Levites and a portion of the tithing was reserved for them as well after rendering service in the tabernacle (local church) and temples. Numbers 18:24....2Timothy 3: 16- 17...and there is nothing wrong with getting compensation from your local church as long as you are a Tither.
I made it in the Vlog 🙌🏼
I was the second kid in the suit who waved his hand at 7:40
This is so cool because this Vlog took place at my church!
Bruh, I don't know who you are; but, I looked for you.
...And, I waved back. 👋🏽
@@PunkIsDead...LikeMe why thank you, how polite 😌
@@carsonrogersstudio Well, you're very welcome!!
I’m 44 yrs old, I’ve been leading/playing music in church since I was 16, never have I desired to get paid, this is my service to my Lord as a grateful response to His wonderful saving grace.
Thank you for covering this touchy topic. You did it with respect, class and an unbiased perspective. You have a great spirit and your heart is in the right place. Again, I can’t thank you enough.
-A former church musician who still plays out on occasion.
Unbiased!
Dude is literally the one trying to get paid!
I am very thankful that you highlighted that Music is a ministry and not just a payday. We have to realize the importance of music and how this reaches people. But also on the other hand, we have to care for our musicians as they do for our ministries.
Love the dialogue. We are in ministry but pay needs to be a part of it.
@@thymick5581 If Preachers are paid, then others should be paid too.
@@thymick5581 I don't understand your comment. All I am saying is that if preachers are being paid (Salary or through the offering), then others who help outed out with the service should be paid too.
@@thymick5581 Agreed
There are several cases, parables and requests in the bible for paying pastors/priests and workers within the church. Its been commonplace to pay pastors/priests since the beginning of the church. Most sects require seminary school or some sort of school of theology and the guiding principle is that if you are working a 40 hour full time job you are just limiting the time that the priest/pastor can attend to their church so you only hurt the church if you dont pay the pastor/priest church workers. Most churches pay the priests/clergy by providing for their needs and given them stipends
In reference to the necessity of ensuring that clergy and church workers are well taken care of: 2 Thessalonians 3:7-10 , "For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat."
A parable or reference to what happens when the clergy is well taken care of : Philippians 4:16-19 , "Even in Thessalonica you sent me help for my needs once and again. Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that increases to your credit. I have received full payment, and more. I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God. And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus."
In reference to ensuring that clergy are paid and taken care of so that they can attend to their spiritual duties . 1 Corinthians 9:9-14 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?
Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.
St Luke also appeals to paying pastors/priests basically saying do you want your priests to serve tables or serve the church in Acts 6:2 "And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables.”"
There are plenty of references. Technically its more against the bible not to pay for people who work for the church.
@@thymick5581 because most of the pastors serves full time. They still need to eat and buy basic necessities.
Yes absolutely. It requires slot of practise time.. To do it right it takes slot of time.
Yes!! The church should absolutely pay their musicians for the services rendered. The world pays their guest musicians handsomely, why shouldn't the church? Now, I get that some churches can only give so much and I've helped minister in many of those churches; those experiences were a blessing to me. I gigged from the mid 90's to the mid 2000's as a sax player. I played at many churches and only a handful paid me. Of course, my focus was serving Jesus and the church, but it got to the point where I was losing money. I also understand the saxophone is an auxiliary instrument and not the core of the band, but every dollar amount helps, large or small.
We need more brass in the church. :)
And the church should absolutely be paying taxes.
As long as we're separating the premise of a musician in the local church vs a "guest musician", this makes sense. If you're being brought to another church to supplement/sit in/train, then I see nothing wrong with getting paid/receiving a love offering. And the only situation where I feel it's appropriate for local church musicians getting paid is if that is now their livelihood, hired as staff. I think most praise teams are made up of members who have regular jobs and, as you mentioned, this is a ministry and service to the body of Christ and that church.
I feel ya bro 😎 in every sense. There was this church in Pico Rivera that I used to help out, and they used to give me $20 but that church was fire 🔥 and I felt a sense of belonging, even-though it wasn’t my church. So sometimes your spirit will tell you to go because you’re gonna get blessed in a miraculous way!!
I live in Pico Rivera
Hey Travis, I am Andrue from Jamaica. Love your presentation brother; I couldn't agree with you more with all that you've said. I'm a bass player myself, and have treated like as you were. But that's a nice gesture. Thanks for using this medium to express how you feel about how musicians have been treated over the years; and this is something that the Church and other organizations need to look into. After all, why should we be less treated, when we are always playing that integral part at the different events, shows, concerts
Great video and a conversation that must be had if this is how you make a living. In my area, unfortunately, the big churches with multi-million dollar budgets usually run on volunteers (ie. free). They have 3 services a week and a day for practice but aside from the music pastor, and maybe one chief musician, musicians generally don't get paid. And on the flip side, I know of smaller Presbyterian, methodist churches (50-75 people) who may only have the budget for one pianist, but they pay that person per service. Unbelievable. What ends up happening in the big churches is musicians get burned out so they don't commit...they get put on a schedule about once a month, and unfortunately the music sounds ok but could be better. Personally, I think it's shameful when big mega-churches don't do any budget for the musicians, I mean, these churches have coffee shops and even a free coffee (good coffee) goes a long way. More often than not, the musicians themselves, or volunteers in the church end up buying food (I'll bring the bagels, someone else the juice, someone else, fruit, etc) for the team. I'm down with volunteering and yes, it is a ministry, but I wish mega-churches (in my area at least) put a little bit higher value into the volunteerism that happens (from musicians, to production team, the people running the cameras, sound board, the teleprompters, etc)....Just my 2 cents.
I bet the Senior Pastor makes six figures tho'
I ever go to a mega² church which is one of the biggest in the world
I get the opportunity to go behind the scenes and know their budget for musician and all (my close friend is the brother of their main guitarist)
They do mix of volunteers and paid
What i see is that the volunteers were usually ppl that have work/business of their own, and the paid musicians is the one that just play music for living
And also they have like a buffet of foods every service (for ppl who serve only)
Its a really nice food, ranged from like pizza to sushi and stuffs
You are such a humble.... May God bless your life brother
Much love and support❤
Great approach about this subject, nobody can imagine the number of hours for a musician get ready with any new song. And this cost should be compensated. I love your bass tips.
God Bless you for the time you have put into other ministries. The Lord knows how hard you work and how much time you put in. May He richly Bless You!
Praying for you and your ministry bro Travis Dykes. It's nice to see you at work in the realm of what you do 😊
Music in church is basically a luxury. The congregation has their voices,hands and feet to praise the Lord. Off course having live music is great !
Travis...love the channel. I have played in and out of church for over 30 years and never been paid for a church gig. I also havent had to choose between a paid gig and serving in church and that would definitely put a different perspective on it. I have a good job and am able to only play what i want, when i want and do so just for my enjoyment not financial gain. My $.02.
I have never had a problem with bringing up money in the church! Most churches want dependable and capable people to handle the service. It cost to have musicians that can carry out the duties of a worship service!!! Great video sir!!!!
Played in the worship band for 15 years and never once thought about getting “paid” It was our way of worshiping
But what about if you cant even get the privilige to
I think that's the right mindset to have. I don't think musicians should ever ask to be paid, because they shouldn't have to.
I think the church leadership should be the ones to acknowledge the time spent and willingness to serve and be willing to give back to those that do.
The pastor gets paid, WHY not the ministry of music? The Levite musicians got benefits for the tithes as well as the priests. IT was their job. They had no part in the division of the promised land. It's likeness of being dependent on the congratulation's tithes for their living.
@@austinwilson754 Tithes and offering to support the Levite services in the Tabernacle. Priests, singers, musicians....
That’s ridiculous
I played lead guitar at my local church and the time involved was considerable. When they didn’t have a specific instrument covered they would hire someone but we were not paid.
Appreciate the content, your heart, and talking about the monetary element of worship gigs. Blessing on your musical journey!
I’ve played in churches over 50 year span. Never once even thought of getting paid for it. God gave the talent to worship him. I can’t think of charging him for playing. It’s much deeper than this. Glory to God always!
I Thank you very much for this video. At times I do feel musicians are not truly respected. I am a bassist and a guitarist. Been playing for many years At one point felt depressed. I own several basses and guitars as well. Was about to sell everything just give it all up. I felt at one point it was just a total waste. A friend of mine I ran into have not seen in many years. We had a conversation about how i felt he’s a singer. He said to me it is a gift God has given me, no one can do what you can do , how you do itI froze when he said that. I went back to scriptures psalms 149 and 150. “Praise him with the strings and pipe”. It hit me like a bolt of lighting the Lord doesn’t just honor singers!!. I am just as important to God as the singer.. It is a gift from God that I play bass and guitar he wants me to praise him with both of them…your video is a confirmation of the importance of rehearsal the sacrifice it takes to perform .I for now on play both my instruments as long as I live.. Thanks again Travis on this video it is a blessing to me
Thanks for the insight! Appreciate your honesty & perspective.
I recently stepped into my music full-time (not really by choice), and having grown up playing in church, I found hiring myself out to other churches to be a solid way to bridge the gap. My pastor and I actually spoke about it the other week and he brought up the point that having to work on Sunday isn't an evil thing, and pastors are "working" on Sundays, too. He also reminded me that it doesn't matter so much what church you go to, as long as you're a part of the global Church, despite denominations or granular beliefs. You video was a great insight into what it's like to actually be a paid professional in the field.
This is a great video. I've been a working church musician since I was 12 years old and received $30 per month as a salary. I've played for churches that paid musicians and I have played for those that didn't. Over 40 years I've seen this debate go back and forth and I will say this - if the musician is a blessing to the church then the church should be a blessing to the musician.
In college, I worked full-time as a TSA, 20 hours in the engineering lab, and played for 3 different churches in 3 different cities to get through college (I was an electrical engineering major with a whole load of classes simultaneously). I was so exhausted that I fell asleep in the middle of the day while driving and totaled my car. I'm blessed to be alive.
A friend of mine that played for the college choir told me about a church that needed a musician. I reached out to them. I was interviewed and after the interview they hired me. That church paid me $200 a week to be the church musician and to work with 5 different choirs but that was enough money for me to get another car, get married to the love of my life, and graduate with my engineering degree.
When the church as a whole starts to look at the roles they have that they can compensate I think they should. You don't know what that can do for a musician and his family.
Biblically, I think in Number 18, it talks about how all the offerings were taken to take care of the temple. That included an offering for the Levites - the musicians. I could be wrong on that but I do believe it is right to take care of your musicians financially. Thanks for this video.
Only speaking for myself. I will occasionally volunteer my time and skills to my home church. However, I've ceded all my other church gigs. Between California's gig law, and then COVID, my $300 four-hour (rehearsal, two services) gigs became "we can W-2 you @ $24/hr - or < $100 gross. I admit my sense of goodwill expired. It pains me to hear from choirs and members of the congregation how the quality of musicianship has suffered, but I just figure - hey, let the young cats take the $100 gigs. Time for me to pass the work on to the next generation.
Same here, bro. I helped out at many different churches for a decade and just called it a day. I constantly heard from church leaders how their music needed to improve, but when it came to compensation...crickets.
Great advice. The world of flesh and blood operates on money, regardless of our spiritual triumphs and connections. We have spent a LOT of time and money on learning how to be good musicians. A church is a business, every single one. Musicians need to understand this. We need to eat, just like the pastor and the deacons, we deserve to get paid.
I have been blessed to play in churches for about 30 years ( side note, I should be better than I am for the time I’ve been playing) and the majority has been free. Especially if it was my home church. The first church I got paid at was so small I felt too bad taking their money so I put it back in the offering. That said I have played a few churches that paid regularly and the standard rate has been $75 per service.
I used to make the exact same statement ten years ago, but I have since forgiven myself for only being as good as I am (after all 40+ years).
You and I got started before RUclips and the host of other free (or nearly free) online resources were a thing. I bet you: 1. don't play to put food on the table 2. that you didn't go to school for music and 3. that you have a day job.
Take advantage of the resources that are available now, but also give yourself a break.
Love, Love, Love this. It's embarrassing at times to see how "some" churches view and treat their musicians.
The production quality of the video is so good, keep up the excelent work man.
+
It's always a tough call doing work for churches...and you're right, the church's budget is what it is...some churches have a budget and some dont. I've always gone by...if I can personally afford the gas, time, travel expenses etc...sure I'll help a church out. But...this is also your profession...so there's nothing wrong with being paid for what you do. It does make it awkward having God in the mix...some people use that point to manipulate and get stuff for free and some use God to bless outside musicians, producers, etc financially. I love your tip about opening the door to talk about finances...it's actually the same way I handled it..the "what is your budget for this..." is perfect!
I started playing for the church again and never knew or expected to get paid. Nice video!
If other members of the church staff expect to be compensated (ie pastoral staff, music director, bookkeepers, etc) why would there be a different expectation for musicians?
@@thymick5581 With respect and love, I disagree… especially in the context of a person like Travis who supports his family as musician. If an individual wants to volunteer their services, great! (I’ve been a volunteer musician and FOH sound tech) but what the video addresses is the often significant time required and expense that putting on quality production requires.
@@thymick5581 I disagree as well
I have to say Travis that you did a wonderful job of covering this topic. I just entered my sixth decade of playing music for which I have been paid to play though often not very much lol. There was a period in Sydney when playing guitar supplemented by FOH work was my primary source of income. These days I'm in south Florida playing small secular gigs and have found my first ever calling to play in a praise band at a local church. Initially I volunteered my time even though I knew other musicians were being paid. Everyone in the band either is or has been a professional musician. A few months ago a new pastor came in, heard the band and insisted that due to the time commitment I should be paid as well and after much thought and prayer I accepted. I based this on the pastor's sincerity on wanting me to accept and the fact that the hours I put into the guitar parts for five songs every week are far greater than the money I receive. Your video made me feel a lot more comfortable with my decision.
Man you are inspiring, I learn so much how you tell your story and approach
This is a totally valid statement about that. You can tithe the time and expenses or return a portion of the money, but there IS a lot of work, gear, travel, time and also it is part of your worship life. Not everyone can do music in front of hundreds or thousands of people! It is a skill just like all other aspects of jobs in the church. People SHOULD be offered the chance to be paid for it as the budget allows. How many people change churches or go to other services BECAUSE of the music and how it enhances worship and helps people come closer to God?!? Please talk to your pastors people. It helps as now you get a clue that it isn't just showing up and playing. Most groups invest 3-10 hours a week in rehearsal for a service or mass before they play. That doesn't usually include independent practice time. That also doesn't always include travel. Most church musicians have full time jobs outside of their music ministry.
Love this! Thank you for sharing this with us!
Solid points done very tactful.
I would say when it comes to a home church, my approach is voluntary.
Our church gives so much back that it would feel like robbery to take a salary as a “staff guitarist”.
However, as you’ve pointed out so well, when it’s outside of that scope there should be some kind of compensation.
Love the videos! Thanks so much for doing them!
Well said and well presented thank you for sharing
I’ve been paid for playing churches for over 35 years. Played for free at my home church for 16 years. The paid Church Guitarist “career” just came to me without seeking it. I believe the Lord led me into it, and I continue to get hired at churches at age 65. I’ll keep playing as long as the Lord gives me the ability.
This was great! Thank you for the info. God bless you.
Of course they should.
@@thymick5581 Do you work for free.
@@thymick5581 Playing music isn't. B ut putting in time to learn songs and traveling back and forth is work. Don't be a dummy.
@@thymick5581 what about the Levites?
@@jgooch99check and mate!
@@thymick5581 how many hours per week do you deem healthy in relation to volunteering your time? Are you married? Do you have kids?
Thank you for this content.
I too am a musician in both the secular stance and worship. Things changed for me when a key member of the media team left now I am more in an engineering roll and what you have said still holds true. On top of all this I also have a day job that really restricts my flexibility but allows me use both sides to make a service special.. it is not easy... So I thank The Lord for you and the content you published for both sides to consider, Stat Blessed!