gavintoobe why do you have such a specific non discreet percentage? Did you run through all of the comments and divide the null responses by the total and multiplied by 100?
gavintoobe tbh, It’s a shame the masses could care less about this stuff, they just want to point and shoot, no research no technical jargon, BUT, I care, the difference between knowing and not knowing is a finger(s), hand, or a life. Plus exploring the technical aspect of it is something people should research more. I’m a student nurse anesthetist, we get a lot of preventable trauma cases like people trying to quick draw a Glock 22 like it was a revolver in their back yard. But anyway keep educating, it will save lives, is a great help to occupational health and prevents them from becoming a training tool for me in the OR.👍🏽 Def worth subscribing too!
@@joshmai8462 It's 5.56 MM - look on a military ammo crate/can. Do people say 556? Yes. Do people say 5.56 Yes. Do they mean the same thing? Absolutely.
@Patrick Flatley apples and oranges.... Your arguments right. But. Not the right argument for this topic. Your explaining cost isn't important. when your life is on the line. I agree totally. BUT, your shooting 5.56 NATO. Not .223 (are you not)? I have never seen .223 green tip bullets. I would love to buy them if they make it. My point was totally different! My point was saying why we shoot 5.56 in our .223 (primarily the early mini 14). And the cost of .223 is significantly higher than 5.56. I hope you can understand the thread now. Out of respect, I do not wish to troll you. My MAIN point, nobody has ever seen a .223 rifle blown up running. 5.56 in it. And we run 5.56 in our .223 due to cost.
@Patrick Flatley Your fine: I have a early mini . I have only shot a few hundred rounds of 5.56 in it never a ftf. But I do run brass, Never steel. Generally I fire other guns more. Moreover, every gun Smith I meet, I ask if he's ever seen a .223 blown up running 5.56 in it. So far, none have. One guy saw a ar (homebuilt Anderson) blow up running too hot hand loaded 5.56 in it. I guess the scales were off. Human error! Federal used to have factory loads too hot sometimes, (lot of lots recalled) a uncle if mine had a savage 99 blow up when he had some 'double' loads in it. (2 sets of powder, and 2 bullets in 1 case). Federal bought him a new savage. - long time ago. Barnes had a book with tables off, I was running 124 grains of hmr 3540 in a 30-378 weatherby in a sako action. MAX was 114 grains! Gun held the super over pressure, though when primers started to vaporize I stopped shooting and found the issue. Point is, guns are built a lot stronger than rated. Anyhow, have a nice day. Welcome home!
In the late 60’s all of my military training was with the M-14 a big heavy weapon. Once I got to Vietnam with no training whatsoever I was given M-16. A bit of a shock but that lightweight rifle could pound out some round.
@@billg4369 lol!!! I love you veteran's!! The guy I respect the most in this world was a Vietnam veteran he ran a M60 . whenever he tells me about his time over there it's crazy!! I have so much respect for what you guys went through!!! Man sometimes when he just talks nonchalant about daily life during that time it blows me away!!!one time I said I couldn't amagine being a tunnel rat in war and he responded we were all tunnel rats! You've never been more scared in your life!! They took turns I guess and sometimes they used dogs to but no matter a guy had go in two!! I don't think this nation has people like you anymore and it's scary as hell! This woke military now is just sad! Not to say their all that way....but come on!!! WTF happened to are pride and patriotic beliefs!!! Jesus Christ Biden is in the Whitehouse!!!! Every generation before gen z knows who he is and always has been!!! Now is older people have to stand up and try to be as great as you guys were!! Hard thing to do! Anyways god bless Jerry Smith!! A man worthy of mention! Yet he'd just say I was just doing my job!!! ........god bless America and long live the Republic!!!!
Sir, I discovered your site a few weeks ago by a lucky accident. While I have served in the Marines for almost 20 years, I have experience with many firearms from Flint & Wheel locks, Bolts to Pumps, Hand&Long guns to Howitzers and calibers from .117 to 120mm. I have made gunpowder from scratch and enjoyed the reputation of being a Weapons Expert. What I have lacked is the knowledge of reloading. I want to express my gratitude to your channel for the explanation of how and why on reloading. Thank you and God bless. L.D. Morris
Hopefully your children will remember what every generation of my family since we gave up our Titles from George respected... Never give up your arms or Society will become communist and disregard human life
Dear Gavin Toobe, Yes we do need another 5.56 vs. 223 video. This was explained beautifully and cleared up a lot of questions I had. I thought I knew it all after shooting my AR 23 for years and the M16 in the Marine Corps. Thank you.-Paul
Paul, I've not shot a .223 but I own a .222 rifle. I trained with the M14 during basic but learned to shoot the M16 after I received my orders to head to Vietnam. I'm sure the ammo and the firearms are very different now than they were then. Time has a way of resolving the problems which the early models have since they don't always identify the issues until later on.
Excellent information. I recall when I bought my first AR-15 I was a little freaked out about all the confusion surrounding 5.56 and .223. Once I learned that as long as I bought a 5.56 rifle I could shoot either I relaxed.
I used an M16 when I was in the Army but didn't train on it until I got my orders to go to Vietnam. It's over 50 years ago, so a lot of things have changed. I read the early models of the M16 had issues with jamming but after we got out of Vietnam they found out the reason. Some idjit in the Ordnance Dept. changed the specs to ball powder instead of the long powder the manufacturer specified.
@@Harry-zz2oh Fisrt off thank you sir for your service. My dad and uncle's talking about the jamming issues they experienced in Vietnam kept me away from ARs. I've always been an AK guy. I traded around on a AR in my teens that looking back was built wrong and it really reinforced my disdain for the platform. A few years ago I decided to build an AR and wow it's not at all what I thought. Still love my AKs but I love my ARs too!
Yeah then explain why thousands of shooters use 5.56 x45 in 233 chambers without problems or why reloads aren't blowing up guns that have more pressure than any commercial loads. This is another b.s. video from an idiot that addmited in the video he did the research meaning the idiot doesn't have any personal hands on experiences with this subject. The fool is just regurgitating hear say information . You can just liar Adam Schiff as well as this fool.
Would you be thinking 7.62x54r? Those are similar based yet the difference that I know of is that the 7.62 has the boat tail and casing sizes are much more different.
This is a very high level, well-researched vid packed with great info about the neverending 5.56/223 saga. I downloaded it to be replayed when I am in a bourbon induced coma and therefore more receptive to watching in its entirety (maybe even comprehending) in one sitting.
And you can if it's marked for a 5.56. But that's why I like my Galil, it's good for any and all of those cartridges, my Valmet was too. Hope those guys that stole them get their faces blown off!
I've always heard that a simple rule of thumb is that you can shoot 223 in any 5.56 chambered rifle but you should not shoot 5.56 in a 223 chambered rifle.
I have been informed by a former homeland security guy that I trust that 223 wylde is the only chamber that can fire both just fine. In fact he has been a family friend for over 20 years
Got over 30 years experience with firearms (military, law enforcement, & F/A instructor), and now I actually understand the difference. Not a reloader but it was an interesting presentation. Plus I liked the additional points on the tracer rounds. Nice job and thanks.
I'm new, and want to make good purchases. Watching vids. AR or AK? I saw a couple vets with combat experience totally and equally make cases for both in the same video and both comfortable with their decisions. as non-combat vet, I have no clue. But when it matters I want to have the right equipment. Thanks brother.
@@ethoslogospathos Both are effective. It really depends on the purpose for the the rifle. I don't hunt anymore, so the larger caliber isn't necessary. Generally, my intent is home defense and range time. Between the two, I prefer the AR, it's a reliable and easy to shoot accurately, easy to maintain, and ammo is decently priced. Most importantly, my wife can also effectively handle it, which makes it extremely useful in potential home defense situations.
During emergency situations at Clark AB Philippines in 1988-1990, I actually carried an early Colt production US Government owned AR-15s (no where on the rifle was "M-16" written) with XM-148s attached. The serial numbers were within the first 10,000 rifles produced, and caliber was listed as ".223 Remington".
Thanks for sharing Earl. I am retired USAF myself and this seems typical as the Air Force would be the last to change out our small arms. My 1st side arm in the 80's was a six shot .38 SPL revolver from the 1950's. Army was converting from the 1911 to the 9mm Beretta M9 during this time frame. Not knocking the USAF.....we are not a ground combat force and we simply use whatever Big Army uses for small arms...after the Big Army is equipped first.
@@TheKCaryer When I got to Clark in 1988, the Law Enforcement troops in the 3rd LES were all carrying M-9s. The Security Specialists in the 3rd SPS (which I was one) were generally carrying M-16s, M-203s, and M-60s. During emergency situations where we needed more people armed in both Squadrons we'd issue the Colt AR-15 601s with XM-148. When I got to the 97th SPS at Eaker AFB Arkansas in 1990, the LE troops were still carrying the .38 Special S&W M-15s. I also got a brand new M-16A2 at Incirlik AB Turkey in 1994, but had to switch back to an old M-16 at Minot AFB ND in 1995. What you carried depended on in which Major Command you were in. PACAF & USAFE got first dibs on new weapons, SAC & USAFSC had to wait. I'm sure Curtis E. LeMay is spinning in his grave knowing that his beloved SAC, & to a lesser extent Space Command, were getting "Shafted".
General Curtis LeMay had originally gotten the AR-15 for the Air Force; the ones noted here were probably from that batch. The Army initially didn't want this rifle, and it was the Army's production contract that brought changes that differentiated the Colt AR-15 from the M-16.
Been reloading for the AR for years without any problems. Yet this video did open my eyes with new thoughts. Thanks will look deeper into this. I use 24.5 grns CFE223 and a 62gn bullet. Great combo. Plus as far as the primer ring I had always beveled the ring and had pretty good success. Reason I do this is I had heard that removing the ring causes loose primers due to the excess space from the ring being removed. I'm not saying I'm right but it has worked for me.
Thanks for sharing. What is your method for beveling? I can imagine a stationary motor with grinding stone and you handle the brass one at a time working over the stone. Am I close?
Big difference between design specifications, machining tolerances, and practical example. Some of the chamber differences between .223 and 5.56 fall within machine tolerances of production weapons. The M16 was designed for rapid mass production. They are not hand-crafted precision instruments.
Pressure is created, as soon as a bullet starts to engage the rifling. The rifling is slowing the forward progress of the projectile, and imparting a spinning motion. The bullet basically hits the brakes, when the rifling grabs hold of it. This creates added pressure, from the gases that are behind it, trying to propel it down the barrel. Basically, a .223 chambered firearm has LESS space between the chamber and the rifling(free bore, then throat). It's called bullet jump. Add THAT to the fact that a 5.56 bullet is designed to contact the rifling sooner anyway, because of its longer profile(where the bullet begins to curve to a point), and you have A LOT of added pressure created. I hope this adds to his explanation... Very good video!
I don't know that that's completely true, Jamie. Outside of unusual profile bullets, that longer throat isn't making that much of a difference. As evidence, have you ever found 55 grain "5.56" bullets for reloading as distinguishable from 55 grain ".223" bullets for reloading? And how can one set of reloading dies reload for both the .223 and 5.56? It's because they ARE identical for all PRACTICAL purposes so long as you are not dabbling in exotic composition bullets (like the tracer round profiled in the video). The longer freebore in a 5.56 chamber is so that it can reliably chamber a multitude of military loads (from various supply sources) in dirty battlefield conditions. You are not going to blow up a .223 chamber by firing the M193 and M855 5.56 loadings that get sold to us in the civilian market. And if you look at reloading manuals, you will see load data for longer bullet profiles (way over the 62 grain weight) in the .223 section. If the shorter freebore in the .223 is so dangerous, how can you load heavier (longer) bullets in it which either extend further into the freebore or sit back further in the case ... both of which increase pressure? We live in a day and age where everyone wants to limit liability. This is why the confusion. When asked point blank, no industry member will tell you it's OK to shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber. But yet how many label their products (ammo boxes, gun manuals, etc.) in such a way to caution you from doing so? It's because their lawyers haven't made them print the material that way ... because no one is suing them over blown up .223 chambers. It's a boogeyman and nothing more. Follow the money.
All this video showed me is to not fire 5.56 NATO tracer ammunition in a .223 Remington chambered rifle even though it shouldn't hurt the rifle or the shooter. People have been seating bullets out to just touch the rifling for well over 120 years for better accuracy. It is when you jam the bullet into the rifling that pressure problems occur, If the bolt closes easily then there should be no problem.
I've found that the Hedge is more than just a bit more than Subsonic compared to the speed of my customized souped up acurized Silverado and especially on Fridays when I am on the way to the bank to get my check in before the bill collectors cash what I wrote out, they just can't get off to the hiway shoulder faster than a souped up Super Sonic Silverado goes by... Therefore Hedge Hogs are confirmed Subsonic critters...
@@RolandArthur Are you trying to dazzle a ballistics expert from Camp Perry and LE June Champion from 1990 on up? You are so full of shit and left fucking field you fucking stink... A 223 round and 5.56 Nato both leave the barrel almost 3,000 miles per hour. The problem with round has never been velocity.. It's been a distance and striking capacity issue... Nothing else... Now go back to the fucking Porn Channels where you are an authority on the subject matters..
Same here, .223W handles both very nicely. It's all about the leade or freebore as it's called in the video. Good video by the way. 1.2k thumbs down, that's 1.2k owners that shouldn't.
I’m in the process of building a short barrel pistol. I purchased a .223 Wylde. I want to be able to shoot both .223 and .556. Additionally I want to buy the conversion BCG kit that will allow .22LR..
@@madcratebuilder i dont get how the freebore distance from about .0025 to .005 could really make so much difference, has anyone proven the accuracy is better
@@skie6282 Example if you put a round and the bullet is actually jammed in the rifling before you take a shot it will tend to produce more pressure. Could be 8,000 psi higher than the same round that has some free bore. An analogy. If your car tire is up against a curb vs the tire is 2 feet from the curb. In which case do you have to apply more gas to get over the curb? Usually a rolling start will get you over it faster. Same thing with a bullet in the lands vs having some free bore. AR-15 are meant to handle auto fire (even though they are semi) so they are built with more slop in the chamber. They can shooter better dirty, and it various temperature ranges than a gun with tighter tolerances in the chamber. If you want better accuracy just buy a bolt gun, they can deal with tighter chambers better.
Reloading, fun to mention, how to do ball ammo, ever try a 4inch block of aluminum afor smelting for wind roosters or mail box tops? The ball does alot more then a lead reload,quess the rest.
Great video. One other item to consider is the tolerances accepted with .223 and 5.56 ammo. The 5.56 chamber allows for operation with ammunition loaded to the loosest tolerances. Run a couple hundred rounds of nato 5.56 over a chronograph and you will see the standard deviation is much higher than the commercial .223 ammo. This is because the tolerances are wider for the 5.56 load.
do you mean to say that 5.56 has more misses on targets than 0.223? trying to understand your comment. Use 5.56 or 0.223 in an AR? new to the conversation and looking to make purchases for what's coming. Thanks
@@ethoslogospathos 5.56 is just less consistent. For most shooting you will never know the difference. The only time I have a noticeable difference is when shooting through a really accurate rifle or shooting over the chronograph. The average ar with a 5.56 chamber will shoot under 3 moa with any ammo. Cheap 5.56 ammo will be within that standard as well. Assuming you want to have a decent supply for personal use and possibly bartering, I would buy as much as you can afford at the cheapest price possible... Whatever that may be. Steel case stuff is fine if your rifle will function with it, just make sure to try it before you buy a bunch. It also may be less desirable in a bartering world since other folks rifles may not function with it.
I want to add my voice to the others saying that this was the best, most concise explanation vid that I've seen. OP put it exactly as my FFL guy did when I bought my M&P15X. Well done, good sir!
I recall shooting green tip ammo in the late 80's and we never considered it as "Armor Piecing" during the debates over banning such ammo however I had some 9mm steel core and 30;06 black tip solid steel armor piecing that was not good for the bore but could go through one inch T1 steel plates at 100 yards , that was real armor piecing. Depleted uranium is the mother of armor piecing .
I'm new to this small arms world (I "grew up" with an M14), and one of my main questions was answered: Can both cal. cartridges be fired from both cal. rifles? Well, just a few weeks ago I bought a 5.56 rifle and both .223 and 5.56 ammo. Glad to know it's the right cal. rifle.
Very relevant and important information for my reloading method as I use both .223 and .556. My main varmint rifle is a Remington 700 with a heavy 1:12 , 26" barrel. Then three AR's. Two 1:7 and one 1:9. I have been using the AR's with low quality bullets to ring steel at 440 yards. A lot of fun to use open sights.
Thank you for this video :o I hear locals talking about how .223 & 5.56 are pretty much the same ammo. But none of them have mentioned or explained to me more in details what differs the 2 from each other like what I have learned from this here.
gavintoobe, have you ever heard of anyone blowing a rifle changing from one to the other? Your explanation is spot on about pressure testing and chamber dimensions and I can see where one might think it's dangerous. In reality, I've shot both cartridges in both chamber configurations since the late 60s, early 70s in AR's, various bolt rifles and a couple of single shot (T. C. Contenders and Ruger #1) with no ill effects. If there is a substantial difference, it would probably be in accuracy. Then again, maybe after thousands of rounds down range, I was just extremely fortunate.
I purchased a Ruger Mini 14 at the Marine Corps Exchange on base not long before I discharged the Corps. Soon after I got into reloading and purchased a Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading when it was a new book, dated June 1973. On page 72 loading data for the Remington 223 has an introductory paragraph or two about the 223. First line of the second paragraph states: "The prospect of surplus military cartridges and a plentiful supply of once fired military brass for the 223 has encouraged predictions that this round will ultimately surrpass the 22 Remington Magnum in popularity." This was of course long before the current trendy thought came along and it simply states the obvious simple facts. There are different primer pockets on current military brass yes, but some say it was not always that way, and it doesn't really matter. The primers on today's military brass are different. But the only real difference between the 5.56X45 NATO and the 223 Remington is marketing. "Buy this 5.56 and it is better than that other guys 223 Remington." In fact, you could never, never find any load data for a 5.56 NATOin any loading manual until that all came about, and it has now gone so far, to please those owners of rifles marked 5.56 that they now print loading manuals with different loads for 5.56 and 223 Remington rounds. Now the millenials are beginning to say the 7.62 X 51 NATO is not really the same as a 308 Win. Marketing, that is the difference between the two, and that is it.
.223 Wilde is slightly tighter than 5.56 and slightly looser than .223 and will handle both, with a possibility of greater accuracy with the 5.56 loads.
@@georgesakellaropoulos8162 5.56mm = 0.2189" which is a full 0.0045" smaller than 0.223" is. So going even tighter than 5.56mm is heading in the wrong direction if you're looking for compatibility. Being as 5.56mm is already too tight as it is.
Got certified FFL and ship to all states.. ammunition available are: 9mm, 5.56, 223, 45acp, 65creedmor, 22lr, 380,and more .. Dm us if interested and purchase up your ammo online
I've seen what 5.56 does to the chest of a human body first hand, tiny hole and massive internal damage, due to hydra-shock, small exit wound. Resume: Disabled combat veteran, 2003 Iraq, Najaf, Karbala, Baghdad and Fallujah.
I have an ar, its well used.. but I am concerned with the many stories of "skinnies" and I use that word because it allows for what I've heard can happen.. with less tissue to pass through the bullets can go right through without the use of hp rounds as NATO demands. So the round can go straight through a thinner person and keep going without massive damage. Lots of stories have come out with enemies being struck multiple times in center mass and they walk away.. not exactly ideal in combat.. lots of times there's just a straight .22 hole pass through without significant damage.
roger buss III if I read correctly that's because they were using the armor peircing green tips, which would work better against Armor obviously. And also I read another story about it in Afghanistan where the green tips combined with terrorists being hopped up on heroine, made the bullet seem useless. Not sure though.
@@iamtj111 Green tip is not an armor piercing round. And even if they were, the terminal ballistics of the 556 round are good, going straight through a target and the target still fighting had less to do with its terminal ballistics and more to do with the fact that alot of enemy combatants were hyped up on all sorts of drugs.. pcp.. lsd.. you have it, there were bad guys on it. That's why we started training failure drills, the infamous 2 to the chest, one to the head.
Appreciate the technical explanations, but I feel your warning for .223 rifle owners to avoid 5.56 ammo is based more on theory than reality. In my youth I was a military instructor, and I owned a Remington 700 in .223. For years I shot 5.56mm and .223 ammo interchangeably with no pressure signs whatsoever. Time for a reality check: The .223 and 5.56 have been around for 60 years, and billions of rounds have been fired, often in cross-platform chambers. I have never heard of any - repeat ANY - .223 rifle failures traced to using 5.56mm ammo. No breakage, no damage, no injuries. In 60 years. The simple fact is that if you fire 5.56mm in a .223 rifle you may be adding a bit of stress to the action, but I suspect it's no more than the load-to-load variations found in factory ammo and chamber variations. Conclusion: You're not "risking your life" when you fire 5.56 mm ammunition in a .223 rifle. Let's lower the drama and keep it real. Thanks again for a great presentation.
I see this comment in .223/5.56 threads quite often. Having .223 that I've fired 5.56 through, I've never experienced failures in my firearms, either. I get the geometry is slightly different which leads to pressure differences, but I've never noticed a difference. I don't make a habit of firing 5.56 in .223, but it's never been an issue for me.
Although titled as a versus video, I found it to be a good "know your load data for cartridge" video. Nice job. I haven't used this cartridge since my 70s days in the USMC and I don't own an AR, but I do own a.308 bullpup and find it to be more suitable for my preferences. I did think the M16 was easy to shoot and my last score in 1977 was 248/250 for Qualification.
bought a colt AR-15 back in 70s and used both .223 and 5.56. Back then they were considered one and the same. never had a problem with factory or my reloaded ammo. That was thousands of rounds. nor could I tell the difference when firing them. Im tired of this argument. Just open both rounds up and see the powder loads (mainly Ball powder). same powder grain wts and matched the documented data from the ammo manufacturers at the time.
Colt SP-1's of 1970's vintage had 5.56 chambers.. If you listened to the presentation you would know that all variations of .223 and 5.56 can be fired safely from a 5.56 chamber as its the largest, longest free bore chamber available in the AR Platform.
I over heard a moron PUNK gun counter boy at Cabala's telling customers the 5.56x45 blows up guns marked 223 like a bomb ! The jackass then said the sound of 5.56x45 was loader than a 50 BMG . This is a big gripe of mine that these stores hire such dumb asses to sell guns to possibly people who want there first gun and believe the person behind the counter is a gun expert. The next week I was again at the same Cabala's story watching another stupid PUNK gun counter boy telling customers that all guides in Alaska use for bear hunting is Glock 9mm pistols, so all they need is a good 9 mm for all Alaska hunting.
@@frigglebiscuit7484 that being said by a punk ass idiot addicted to fuck up video games that used some crap photo for the channel you have. If you can't stand truthful information from a gun builder and Alaskan hunting guide don't read it.
This is the most detailed explanation I've yet seen on the differences and similarities between 223 and 5.56. Now do one on the 308 vs 7.62 NATO debate.
I found that .223 load data is ever so slightly lighter on pressure at max loads. Now I don't load max loads so it's a non issue for me. I load to a spec within both 5.56 and .223 and just swage the primer pocket on 5.56 before loading.
Excellent video. Thank-you! I re-watch this video about once a year. It is full of quality information from start to finish. Thank-you once again for posting this. 👍👍👍
John Mediadozena the 5.56 was derived from the .223 which was American, that a consortium of international governments made unnecessarily complicated - hows that???
Here I sit at my desk once again attempting to dodge work and responsibility yet appear to be doing both, I find myself in shock and disbelief. This highly educational and well researched video reignited the ember of hope I was clinging to that reason, research, and critical thinking may still exist.
". . . reason, research, and critical thinking may still exist." They all still exist, but have always been rare and hard to find. For what it's worth, I am retired and my boss/wife knows I'm just wasting time on the internet. She's fine with that. ;-)
5.56 vs .223 ammo sounded good, but I worked at Lake City. At the time, ATK operated Lake City Army Ammunition Plant and also owned Federal (among many other shooting-related companies). We would often move overproduction 5.56 at Lake City to Federal and sell it as American Eagle 223. The lucky soles purchasing those rounds would get mil-spec ammo (and precision) at hillbilly ammo prices.
It was never even an issue untill recently. The 5.56 was the military designation for the Remington .233. i owned an old Mini 14(the one with the wood handguard) and fired thousands of 5.56 ammo with no issues. It seems the difference is 5.56NATO is loaded to mil spec and .223 is SAAMI spec.
Verry well said safety first. I have been reloading over 40 years with no accidents that's because Dad taught me to be safe when reloading ammo.dont reload when when u don't feel good or don't have time.be careful and be safe 🤔
I’ve wondered about this for years but never did the research. When I was stationed in Hawaii back in the 90s we had one of the units in our brigade have a parade ceremony for, I’m assuming, their battalion commander who was retiring. They were carrying their M16s, slung on their shoulders. The story that went around was that a soldier had gotten divorced and his wife and family had left the island. This soldier, again here-say, supposedly went into Mililani and bought some .223 rounds. As they were returning their weapons to the armory, this guy dropped a mag of .223s in the rifle, charged it and tried to shoot his platoon leader who was on the phone at the CQ desk, but the rifle misfired, he pulled SPORTS on the rifle and dropped the lieutenant then put two more in his head and chest. I had spent the night with a family that had kind of taken me under their wing and Sgt. Thompson was dropping me off at the barracks, as I came around the corner there were soldiers running everywhere with M16s, I can remember hearing pops echo through the buildings and just as I peaked around the edge I saw the guy shoot himself under the chin and the top of his head flip up like a bottle cap. The crazy thing was, they left that soldiers body lay there in that field all night right in front of the barracks. Haven’t thought about that in 30+ years. Guess the point is, like you said .223 will work in 5.56 chamber.
I've been working under the assumption that it is safe 5.56 brass using .223 data even for my 5.56 chamber, since I have a mixture of both kinds of brass. I haven't seen any blown out cases so far.
I would also assum that would be the safe. I mean were not needing any super long ojive bullets and were 223 is lighter on pressuere lighter is always more safe.
Thank-you so much for putting this story together. I appreciate easy to understand explanations, and yours were/are. You answered many questions other shooters and I had. Look forward to seeing some of your other productions.
Thank you for the vid brother; my father was an army ranger who died very young in my life. It’s videos like this that allow me to learn and hopefully make my pops proud; The gun community is really toxic to newcomers and videos like this create a nonjudgmental viewpoint on how to explain SIMPLE things. Thanks man
Sorry to hear about the toxicity. We all have to start somewhere unless be become ignorant. Ignorance and deadly weapons make a deadly combination. Best of luck!
I purchase a colt ar 15 in 1980 in 223 Remington. It is stamped on the barrel. I called colt about shooting 5.56 nato in this rifle and they said that it was ok. No problem.
Thank you SO much for an incredibly informative video on this contested subject! One of my rifles is an older Ruger Mini-14 and I would never dream of loading 5.56 simply because .223 is stamped on the gun. I'm just getting into reloading and you've provided a wealth of information as well as a solid foundation from which to explore. Thank you sir! Safe shooting and have a fantastic day!
I bought a new Ruger Mini 14 in 1982 I still have the gun and owners manual that came with it. The receiver is stamped Cal .223. The owners manual clearly states that either 5.56 NATO or Remington .223 can be safely fired in the Mini 14. Ruger should know!!!
It’s my understanding that Ruger marked early Mini 14 receivers .223 Remington only because there was no SAAMI standard for 5.56 NATO, but all of them have 5.56 NATO chamber dimensions (except the Target model as mentioned). So I think you can fire 5.56 safely from any Ranch model. But then, not much difference in cost of ammo and never hurts to err on the side of safety.
Good explanation of why not to use 5.56 in 223 and very interesting explanation of different pressure measurement, thank you. Any chance you could do the same comparison for the 308 vs 7.62x51 ?
As a handloader, my AR is stamped 5.56 so I load everything to 5.56 specs. As far as the leade goes, anyone loading ammunition should know that bullet seating depth insures that there is enough leade to allow the bullet to start moving so peak pressure is lower when the bullet enters the rifling, no excessive pressure. A round without enough leade will cause signs of excessive pressure, blown primers, etc. Military ammo varies with the type of bullet. A tracer, with an ogive differing from ball ammo may fit great in a 5.56 chamber but go too far into the leade in a .223 chamber, causing excessive pressure. Not an absolute, but it is a possibility. Good video explaining that the great difference between the two rounds is really in the chamber, not the case.
The difference is the case. Military brass is thicker, because they have to use them if fully automatic weapons that have a nasty habit of tearing the heads off the cartridge cases. So the military brass has a slightly smaller case capacity. If you load both with the same charge and bullets, the military brass will develop higher pressure since the same volume of gas is being generated in a smaller space.
UNITED POLICE STATES OF AMERICA look another RUclips punk bull shitter giving reloading advice from playing fucked up video war games. What you wrote tells every experienced shooter and reloaded that you never touched a real gun you're life.
Rara, I have been shooting for 40+ of those 13 years and reloading for over 30 years. Plus 14 years in the Marine Corps shooting the M-16A1 and A2. I will assume that if you have nothing to say except to try to insult someone you don't know, then you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation. Some reasons for pressure can be not enough leade, to much crimp on a bullet case mouth, too much powder, an obstruction in the bore, and many others. Pick up a reloading manual and read, there are different min and max dimensions for loading ammo. If there isn't enough room for the bullet to move forward prior to being swaged into the rifling, it will result in high pressure. Sometimes enough to blow up the gun.
This is one of the most informative, well thought out videos I have seen on this subject. I worked on these guns in the military. The chambers ARE different. The chamber specs are not even called off the same point. The US military uses the intersection of the body line and shoulder to call length. SAAMI uses a ball system. In theory, the numbers come out the same, but ammunition specs are so loose that it does not always work out. Throw in European CIP specs and things can get "Iffy". I have not really kept up on the .223/5.56, but the military case used to be much heavier, especially at the neck. This is a critical point in chamber allowance.
Thanks for the review. So much to learn, this was another piece of the pie. From someone who is old school thinking 30-06 in my M1 Garand was minimal stopping power
You win. This is the best video I've ever seen on this subject and I've heard ALL kinds of crap. Do this, don't do this, only on a full moon, ask your mom, blah, blah, blah. Subscribed.
Thanks for a great video. Both my ARs have multi-cal chambering. They have eaten 5.56 and .223 without complaint, but I primarily shoot 5.56, std ball. I clean after every shoot, so the barrels & chambers always get a good look-see with the LED snake.
Actually if you look at load data for the two. The 5.56 does have a bit larger powder charge than the 223. Such as Accurate 2230 for the 62 gr m855 in 223 calls for 21.4 to 23.8gr of powder. The same powder charge, same bullet in the 5.56 calls for 22.8 to 25.3gr of powder.
Daniel Myers-Cowan that effects material cost in manufacturing asa whole smaller load less casing material , had they just did one case size they would essentially being throwing money away
Yeah this is not like the case of .38 Special vs .357 Magnum or .44 Special vs .44 Magnum where they made it slightly longer so you could load magnum into a non-magnum chamber, right from the start on that cutaway you can see differences in the thickness of the rim and dimensions of the primer pocket.
There's a lot of talking smack on the internet regarding 5.56 v. .223 Remington. Here's the skinny: They are dimensionally very similar. The difference between the two types of ammunition lies in the difference between civilian and mil-spec. chambers/throats in carbines/rifles, and also the materials/workmanship of the respective cartridges and their components. Civilian hunting arms for example, even semi-auto variety, are not designed to be fired in long, rapid strings of fire. They have tighter chamber/throat dimensions to enhance accuracy, at the cost of some reliability and accuracy when hot. This is true of some, but not all, civilian carbines/rifles in .223 Remington. Mil-spec. rifles/carbines in 5.56 NATO, however, are purposely-designed to have more-generous chamber/throat dimensions to enhance reliability when the weapon is dirty, hot and fouled. These characteristics also enhance function with belted/linked ammunition or when a weapon is fired in full-auto - or both. Similarly, the 5.56 NATO case is made more-stoutly, with heavier, thicker walls and annealing. Again, the added material in the case is to allow the cartridge to withstand full-auto operation, or operation under tough and dirty field conditions - or both. The military trades a bit of accuracy potential to achieve these characteristics. Civilian .223 Remington chambers, such as those used in match-grade service rifles with Wylde Chambers, can be tighter since they are not called upon to function under the same set of conditions as mil-spec. arms. The overall tighter dimensions and more-stringently observed construction allow the rifle to be significantly more-accurate. But at the cost of reliability when dirty, hot or fouled. The online myth is that 5.56 is loaded to "higher pressures" than civilian ammunition. This is often false. Civilian .223 hunting ammunition, not falling under NATO guidelines, is free to be loaded to hotter, higher pressures than mil-spec. ammo. or not, as the manufacturer pleases. Since NATO brass is thicker and more-rigid on the whole than civilian .223 brass, it needs 1-2 grains less in charge of a given powder to produce the same MV as its civilian .223 counterpart, bullet weights identical. The proviso not to use .223 ammo in 5.56 rifles/carbines perhaps stems from this difference,and from the fact that NATO-spec brass is tougher and less-likely to be torn upon extraction. Another caution is that since 5.56 NATO chamber dimensions are more-generous, the .223 Rem. case is -or may not be - as well-supported as in a .223 civilian-spec arm.
The allowances and tolerances are not only variable between gunsmith companies, there will be variation from the beginning to end of a single run as the production tooling wears. When purchasing industrial market thread taps (as an easy example), you must specify the overage, 3mil 7mil etc, this overbores the threads. While a 7mil over is a sloppier fit than 3 mil the 7mil tap will last more than twice as long on the production line as it has an extra 4mils of to wear down. Also interesting is that both will have equally tight and the closest dimensions at their max wear just before they are replaced. An external tool like a thread die is the opposite, they all start at minimum tolerance end loose. So if you get a new tap and new die you will have a very loose fit, a worn tap and worn die will be a tight fit; this is called "tolerance stacking". A custom machine builder whether firearms or engines will "blueprint" their inventory of parts to match tolerances, over with over, under with under, to reduce tolerance stacking and get better consistancy.)
Glad I did my homework before I purchased my AR 15 5.56 mil spec ... Thanks for the confirmation that my choice was correct 👍 On another note .... I've always been amazed how many "experts" claim .223 & 5.56 are the same .... Clearly the pressure dictate to the contrary. Education is paramount in ballistics and firearms ... your life depends on it!
Finely a wonderful video covering the true differences with the 223 and the 5.56. Well done I hope to view more of your informative videos in the future.
Awesome! I needed to watch this to verify the strength of my AR-15 223. I was worried that this gun might not be as strong as I thought. No I see its much stronger than I thought! Thanks brother!👍👏✝️
Quite the detailed vid. Thank you. I’m very fortunate as my Springfield Armory Saint cycles both .223 and 5.56. When at the range, I train with .223 as the cartridges are cheaper than 5.56. My go bag mags are loaded with Hornady Black 5.56 62gr FMJ.😎
All technicalities aside, when Ruger says my early model Mini-14 can fire either cartridge, I believe them. They built the thing, they know its capabilities!
It was my experience, and I read others with the same issue, that the early model Mini-14's would typically hold a 6" group at a hundred yards. Could that have been from machining the chambers to allow for the increased free bore distance of the 5.56? That way it could have shot either caliber safely, but when they tightened up the chambers to increase accuracy on later models, maybe they quit saying it was OK to use either caliber. I don't know. Just raising the question.
@@WesB1972 My sentiments exactly! As for accuracy, the rifle is more accurate than I am these days (80+ years old). A 6 inch group of five shots at a hundred yards would be really great, IMO!
Excellent video ! I did watch the entire video. Stellar information on such an back and forth on the construction of 5.56 and .223. Top notch display, and visual aids to explain. I plan to watch your entire series. Thank you ! JP
Gavin is a wealth of knowledge and certainly makes it easier to understand. I would love to hear him give his insight to the .223 Wylde chamber, and loading for it.
Very useful detail. I'm in the middle of a huge reloading progject for AR rifles, and my brass is completely mixed. This has given me a LOT to think about!
Meh. Most of us just want our constitutionally protected Rights to be honored as we don't understand how we can be punished after we've paid our debt to society.
From the Ruger owners manual for 180 series: Any Ruger Mini14 is capable of using EITHER .223 or 5.56 ammunition . Manual is avaliable online. Note that this is from the 180 series annual. Get your correct manual and RTF...
89.6% of the comments left on this video are from people that obviously didn't watch the entire video. PLEASE WATCH FIRST, THEN COMMENT! :)
gavintoobe why do you have such a specific non discreet percentage? Did you run through all of the comments and divide the null responses by the total and multiplied by 100?
Lemurai satire lost here - but the actual numbers can’t be far from that! 😂
gavintoobe tbh, It’s a shame the masses could care less about this stuff, they just want to point and shoot, no research no technical jargon, BUT, I care, the difference between knowing and not knowing is a finger(s), hand, or a life. Plus exploring the technical aspect of it is something people should research more. I’m a student nurse anesthetist, we get a lot of preventable trauma cases like people trying to quick draw a Glock 22 like it was a revolver in their back yard. But anyway keep educating, it will save lives, is a great help to occupational health and prevents them from becoming a training tool for me in the OR.👍🏽 Def worth subscribing too!
@@joshmai8462 It's 5.56 MM - look on a military ammo crate/can. Do people say 556? Yes. Do people say 5.56 Yes. Do they mean the same thing? Absolutely.
Is shooting 5.56 in a 223 chambered rifle equivalent to the incremental damage done to a none nato specified handgun shooting 124gr or more ammo?
Best 223 vs 556 discussion ever. Lots of facts, no speculation, appropriate warnings, and, greatly appreciated, no wasted words. Thank you.
@@Fister_of_Muppets if you want to live and love your life do not listen to this guy. He is dead wrong
@@baybreederbayarea510 🤦♂️🤡
Cost..... 223 is 5 or 6 bucks a box of 20. More of a hunting round. 5.56 is $.29 a round...
@Patrick Flatley apples and oranges.... Your arguments right. But. Not the right argument for this topic. Your explaining cost isn't important. when your life is on the line. I agree totally. BUT, your shooting 5.56 NATO. Not .223 (are you not)? I have never seen .223 green tip bullets. I would love to buy them if they make it.
My point was totally different! My point was saying why we shoot 5.56 in our .223 (primarily the early mini 14). And the cost of .223 is significantly higher than 5.56.
I hope you can understand the thread now. Out of respect, I do not wish to troll you.
My MAIN point, nobody has ever seen a .223 rifle blown up running. 5.56 in it. And we run 5.56 in our .223 due to cost.
@Patrick Flatley Your fine: I have a early mini . I have only shot a few hundred rounds of 5.56 in it never a ftf. But I do run brass, Never steel. Generally I fire other guns more.
Moreover, every gun Smith I meet, I ask if he's ever seen a .223 blown up running 5.56 in it. So far, none have.
One guy saw a ar (homebuilt Anderson) blow up running too hot hand loaded 5.56 in it. I guess the scales were off. Human error!
Federal used to have factory loads too hot sometimes, (lot of lots recalled) a uncle if mine had a savage 99 blow up when he had some 'double' loads in it. (2 sets of powder, and 2 bullets in 1 case). Federal bought him a new savage. - long time ago.
Barnes had a book with tables off, I was running 124 grains of hmr 3540 in a 30-378 weatherby in a sako action. MAX was 114 grains!
Gun held the super over pressure, though when primers started to vaporize I stopped shooting and found the issue. Point is, guns are built a lot stronger than rated.
Anyhow, have a nice day. Welcome home!
Another fun fact, as we all recently learned, a .223 round is capable of nearly severing an arm.
It will be leaving you wanting a medic I hear.
The most unfortunate thing about that issue is Communists are too stupid to learn. If that wasn't so, they would be constitutionalists not communists.
Hahahahahaha
@ Steve Witte. Crap.. that’s just a little ol’ .22. Hell, they were hurling .69 cal at each other during the civil war.
Crazy what kinetic energy can do even in such a small projectile.
Doesn’t matter here in Summer 2020. Can’t find either.
Preach 😩
I couldn't find any either untill I shopped local. Go to a mom and pops gun store. I found plenty then.
really ? I just bought a 300 blackout :) happy now.
I just got 500 rounds of each in Orange a county
@@angelespino2513 Florida or Cali, never mind both are a disgrace.
In the late 60’s all of my military training was with the M-14 a big heavy weapon. Once I got to Vietnam with no training whatsoever I was given M-16. A bit of a shock but that lightweight rifle could pound out some round.
Wow one of those Guys too? I was Given an M16 and thought it was Fake! LOL.
@@billg4369 lol!!! I love you veteran's!! The guy I respect the most in this world was a Vietnam veteran he ran a M60 . whenever he tells me about his time over there it's crazy!! I have so much respect for what you guys went through!!! Man sometimes when he just talks nonchalant about daily life during that time it blows me away!!!one time I said I couldn't amagine being a tunnel rat in war and he responded we were all tunnel rats! You've never been more scared in your life!! They took turns I guess and sometimes they used dogs to but no matter a guy had go in two!! I don't think this nation has people like you anymore and it's scary as hell! This woke military now is just sad! Not to say their all that way....but come on!!! WTF happened to are pride and patriotic beliefs!!! Jesus Christ Biden is in the Whitehouse!!!! Every generation before gen z knows who he is and always has been!!! Now is older people have to stand up and try to be as great as you guys were!! Hard thing to do! Anyways god bless Jerry Smith!! A man worthy of mention! Yet he'd just say I was just doing my job!!! ........god bless America and long live the Republic!!!!
Thank you for your service. Many of us Americans appreciate your service more than we could ever possibly put into words.❤
I don’t know about everybody else here, but I found this interesting.
I learned something.
Thanks for putting this video together. 👍🏼
This guy appears to be an engineer, so I learned something for sure.
Mikevdog - nothing wrong with being an engineer. 👍🏼 😉
no one can know about everyone else....can they🤔
same here, because I am over 1/2 century old and new to reloading. I am taking all the precautions I can.
Sir,
I discovered your site a few weeks ago by a lucky accident. While I have served in the Marines for almost 20 years, I have experience with many firearms from Flint & Wheel locks, Bolts to Pumps, Hand&Long guns to Howitzers and calibers from .117 to 120mm.
I have made gunpowder from scratch and enjoyed the reputation of being a Weapons Expert. What I have lacked is the knowledge of reloading. I want to express my gratitude to your channel for the explanation of how and why on reloading.
Thank you and God bless.
L.D. Morris
I just forgot all of my children's birthdays to make room for all that information.
Lord of the Plains holy shoot that made me cackle
LOL. I can identify!
Hopefully your children will remember what every generation of my family since we gave up our Titles from George respected... Never give up your arms or Society will become communist and disregard human life
LOL
Reason #14 why I don't have children
Dear Gavin Toobe, Yes we do need another 5.56 vs. 223 video. This was explained beautifully and cleared up a lot of questions I had. I thought I knew it all after shooting my AR 23 for years and the M16 in the Marine Corps. Thank you.-Paul
Paul, I've not shot a .223 but I own a .222 rifle. I trained with the M14 during basic but learned to shoot the M16 after I received my orders to head to Vietnam. I'm sure the ammo and the firearms are very different now than they were then. Time has a way of resolving the problems which the early models have since they don't always identify the issues until later on.
what is a AR 23 ?
Excellent information. I recall when I bought my first AR-15 I was a little freaked out about all the confusion surrounding 5.56 and .223. Once I learned that as long as I bought a 5.56 rifle I could shoot either I relaxed.
I did the same.
it is the way
It is the way , nice
I used an M16 when I was in the Army but didn't train on it until I got my orders to go to Vietnam. It's over 50 years ago, so a lot of things have changed. I read the early models of the M16 had issues with jamming but after we got out of Vietnam they found out the reason. Some idjit in the Ordnance Dept. changed the specs to ball powder instead of the long powder the manufacturer specified.
@@Harry-zz2oh Fisrt off thank you sir for your service. My dad and uncle's talking about the jamming issues they experienced in Vietnam kept me away from ARs. I've always been an AK guy. I traded around on a AR in my teens that looking back was built wrong and it really reinforced my disdain for the platform. A few years ago I decided to build an AR and wow it's not at all what I thought. Still love my AKs but I love my ARs too!
Of all the 1000s of vids on the topic, this ones the most concise, thoroughly explored, and well explained. Thanks for the info. Nicely done!
Yeah then explain why thousands of shooters use 5.56 x45 in 233 chambers without problems or why reloads aren't blowing up guns that have more pressure than any commercial loads.
This is another b.s. video from an idiot that addmited in the video he did the research meaning the idiot doesn't have any personal hands on experiences with this subject.
The fool is just regurgitating hear say information .
You can just liar Adam Schiff as well as this fool.
Now, we got that a side, how about .308 vs 7.62 x 51?
There's a much more apparent difference there, particularly when you consider gas guns with goofy operating rods.
Gregory Park I was going to say the same thing
Would you be thinking 7.62x54r? Those are similar based yet the difference that I know of is that the 7.62 has the boat tail and casing sizes are much more different.
He means .308 Winchester vs 7.62 x 51 Nato
50k CUP is much closer to 62k PSI than people think. There is 7.62 surplus that is higher pressure than commercial .308
This is a very high level, well-researched vid packed with great info about the neverending 5.56/223 saga. I downloaded it to be replayed when I am in a bourbon induced coma and therefore more receptive to watching in its entirety (maybe even comprehending) in one sitting.
A fellow gentleman of class and status, I see.
Class act
@@joshuabeck6008 Lol
I am on the coma, i know what you try to say 🙂
You delivered an exceptional, highly detailed description like no one else. Thank you!
Your explination of the differences between the two cartridges is the best I've heard yet. Thank you.
Chuck
... explanation* ...
I kept imagining all the people watching this video with their eyes glazed over going “I just wanted to know if I could shoot this 5.56 in my AR”
Consult you manufacturer.
And you can if it's marked for a 5.56. But that's why I like my Galil, it's good for any and all of those cartridges, my Valmet was too. Hope those guys that stole them get their faces blown off!
@@Sealacamp my Springfield Saint will fire both also. I agree with you sentiment.
You sound like you watch Tim Pool. Lol.
Thats why I am here, but I am glad to have learned more than what I came for.
I've always heard that a simple rule of thumb is that you can shoot 223 in any 5.56 chambered rifle but you should not shoot 5.56 in a 223 chambered rifle.
I always thought that 223 caliber was a small 6mm. So it's actually 5.56mm?
I have been informed by a former homeland security guy that I trust that 223 wylde is the only chamber that can fire both just fine. In fact he has been a family friend for over 20 years
@@kinnordjhs8694 facts
@@kinnordjhs8694 my father was a marine, police, and in homeland security.
You can shoot both out of a 5.56 chambered rifle all day everyday.
@@SubBubz oh. I didn’t know that. Only abt the one barrel cause it’s the one I have. Good to know
Got over 30 years experience with firearms (military, law enforcement, & F/A instructor), and now I actually understand the difference. Not a reloader but it was an interesting presentation. Plus I liked the additional points on the tracer rounds. Nice job and thanks.
I'm new, and want to make good purchases. Watching vids. AR or AK? I saw a couple vets with combat experience totally and equally make cases for both in the same video and both comfortable with their decisions. as non-combat vet, I have no clue. But when it matters I want to have the right equipment. Thanks brother.
@@ethoslogospathos Both are effective. It really depends on the purpose for the the rifle. I don't hunt anymore, so the larger caliber isn't necessary. Generally, my intent is home defense and range time. Between the two, I prefer the AR, it's a reliable and easy to shoot accurately, easy to maintain, and ammo is decently priced. Most importantly, my wife can also effectively handle it, which makes it extremely useful in potential home defense situations.
Glad you made this video. I have been trying to explain this for 30 years.
During emergency situations at Clark AB Philippines in 1988-1990, I actually carried an early Colt production US Government owned AR-15s (no where on the rifle was "M-16" written) with XM-148s attached. The serial numbers were within the first 10,000 rifles produced, and caliber was listed as ".223 Remington".
Thanks for sharing Earl. I am retired USAF myself and this seems typical as the Air Force would be the last to change out our small arms. My 1st side arm in the 80's was a six shot .38 SPL revolver from the 1950's. Army was converting from the 1911 to the 9mm Beretta M9 during this time frame. Not knocking the USAF.....we are not a ground combat force and we simply use whatever Big Army uses for small arms...after the Big Army is equipped first.
@@TheKCaryer When I got to Clark in 1988, the Law Enforcement troops in the 3rd LES were all carrying M-9s. The Security Specialists in the 3rd SPS (which I was one) were generally carrying M-16s, M-203s, and M-60s. During emergency situations where we needed more people armed in both Squadrons we'd issue the Colt AR-15 601s with XM-148. When I got to the 97th SPS at Eaker AFB Arkansas in 1990, the LE troops were still carrying the .38 Special S&W M-15s. I also got a brand new M-16A2 at Incirlik AB Turkey in 1994, but had to switch back to an old M-16 at Minot AFB ND in 1995. What you carried depended on in which Major Command you were in. PACAF & USAFE got first dibs on new weapons, SAC & USAFSC had to wait. I'm sure Curtis E. LeMay is spinning in his grave knowing that his beloved SAC, & to a lesser extent Space Command, were getting "Shafted".
General Curtis LeMay had originally gotten the AR-15 for the Air Force; the ones noted here were probably from that batch. The Army initially didn't want this rifle, and it was the Army's production contract that brought changes that differentiated the Colt AR-15 from the M-16.
This may have been the rifle without a forward bolt assist. It was called the Air Force model. I qualified with it in AIT at Fort Gordon Gorgia.
@@earlwyss520
Been reloading for the AR for years without any problems. Yet this video did open my eyes with new thoughts. Thanks will look deeper into this. I use 24.5 grns CFE223 and a 62gn bullet. Great combo. Plus as far as the primer ring I had always beveled the ring and had pretty good success. Reason I do this is I had heard that removing the ring causes loose primers due to the excess space from the ring being removed. I'm not saying I'm right but it has worked for me.
Thanks for sharing. What is your method for beveling? I can imagine a stationary motor with grinding stone and you handle the brass one at a time working over the stone. Am I close?
Big difference between design specifications, machining tolerances, and practical example. Some of the chamber differences between .223 and 5.56 fall within machine tolerances of production weapons. The M16 was designed for rapid mass production. They are not hand-crafted precision instruments.
the M16 is exactly the AR or worse, trying to understand. thx
Pressure is created, as soon as a bullet starts to engage the rifling. The rifling is slowing the forward progress of the projectile, and imparting a spinning motion. The bullet basically hits the brakes, when the rifling grabs hold of it. This creates added pressure, from the gases that are behind it, trying to propel it down the barrel. Basically, a .223 chambered firearm has LESS space between the chamber and the rifling(free bore, then throat). It's called bullet jump. Add THAT to the fact that a 5.56 bullet is designed to contact the rifling sooner anyway, because of its longer profile(where the bullet begins to curve to a point), and you have A LOT of added pressure created. I hope this adds to his explanation... Very good video!
Thanks, Bob.
I don't know that that's completely true, Jamie. Outside of unusual profile bullets, that longer throat isn't making that much of a difference. As evidence, have you ever found 55 grain "5.56" bullets for reloading as distinguishable from 55 grain ".223" bullets for reloading? And how can one set of reloading dies reload for both the .223 and 5.56? It's because they ARE identical for all PRACTICAL purposes so long as you are not dabbling in exotic composition bullets (like the tracer round profiled in the video). The longer freebore in a 5.56 chamber is so that it can reliably chamber a multitude of military loads (from various supply sources) in dirty battlefield conditions. You are not going to blow up a .223 chamber by firing the M193 and M855 5.56 loadings that get sold to us in the civilian market. And if you look at reloading manuals, you will see load data for longer bullet profiles (way over the 62 grain weight) in the .223 section. If the shorter freebore in the .223 is so dangerous, how can you load heavier (longer) bullets in it which either extend further into the freebore or sit back further in the case ... both of which increase pressure? We live in a day and age where everyone wants to limit liability. This is why the confusion. When asked point blank, no industry member will tell you it's OK to shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber. But yet how many label their products (ammo boxes, gun manuals, etc.) in such a way to caution you from doing so? It's because their lawyers haven't made them print the material that way ... because no one is suing them over blown up .223 chambers. It's a boogeyman and nothing more. Follow the money.
All this video showed me is to not fire 5.56 NATO tracer ammunition in a .223 Remington chambered rifle even though it shouldn't hurt the rifle or the shooter. People have been seating bullets out to just touch the rifling for well over 120 years for better accuracy. It is when you jam the bullet into the rifling that pressure problems occur, If the bolt closes easily then there should be no problem.
the main difference between mm AND calibre is one measures from the barrel inside diameter --->O
4/1000 (0.223 - 0.218897 = 0.004103)
"SUBERSONIC" - So, neither subsonic, nor Supersonic, but right inbetween. Just Sonic. Or, as fast as a hedgehog.
It can be both supersonic and subsonic while in between, depending on altitude :)))))
Trans-sonic ammunition
I've found that the Hedge is more than just a bit more than Subsonic compared to the speed of my customized souped up acurized Silverado and especially on Fridays when I am on the way to the bank to get my check in before the bill collectors cash what I wrote out, they just can't get off to the hiway shoulder faster than a souped up Super Sonic Silverado goes by... Therefore Hedge Hogs are confirmed Subsonic critters...
LMFAO
@@RolandArthur Are you trying to dazzle a ballistics expert from Camp Perry and LE June Champion from 1990 on up? You are so full of shit and left fucking field you fucking stink... A 223 round and 5.56 Nato both leave the barrel almost 3,000 miles per hour. The problem with round has never been velocity.. It's been a distance and striking capacity issue... Nothing else... Now go back to the fucking Porn Channels where you are an authority on the subject matters..
As an Armourer in the Army, and hunter, it's a good article. True to detail.
I get all my replacement barrels chambered in .223 Wylde. Allows 223 accuracy with 556 NATO pressure safety
This ^
Same here, .223W handles both very nicely. It's all about the leade or freebore as it's called in the video. Good video by the way. 1.2k thumbs down, that's 1.2k owners that shouldn't.
I’m in the process of building a short barrel pistol. I purchased a .223 Wylde. I want to be able to shoot both .223 and .556. Additionally I want to buy the conversion BCG kit that will allow .22LR..
@@madcratebuilder i dont get how the freebore distance from about .0025 to .005 could really make so much difference, has anyone proven the accuracy is better
@@skie6282 Example if you put a round and the bullet is actually jammed in the rifling before you take a shot it will tend to produce more pressure. Could be 8,000 psi higher than the same round that has some free bore.
An analogy. If your car tire is up against a curb vs the tire is 2 feet from the curb. In which case do you have to apply more gas to get over the curb? Usually a rolling start will get you over it faster. Same thing with a bullet in the lands vs having some free bore.
AR-15 are meant to handle auto fire (even though they are semi) so they are built with more slop in the chamber. They can shooter better dirty, and it various temperature ranges than a gun with tighter tolerances in the chamber. If you want better accuracy just buy a bolt gun, they can deal with tighter chambers better.
Who's part of the 10.4% that watched the entire video? Happy shooting and happy reloading!
Reloading, fun to mention, how to do ball ammo, ever try a 4inch block of aluminum afor smelting for wind roosters or mail box tops? The ball does alot more then a lead reload,quess the rest.
not me... looking just for the answer to sum up an otherwise uninteresting video
Jeffrey P - I had to get out 1/3 the way through video to prevent wasting any more of my evening.
SEEN TOO many of these STUPID videos ALREADY! 😡
Obviously NOT the Idiot who disagrees.
This explains some of the accuracy differences I have had with a Rutgers #1 in 223 when shooting 556 in it. Thanks for the explanation.
Great video. One other item to consider is the tolerances accepted with .223 and 5.56 ammo. The 5.56 chamber allows for operation with ammunition loaded to the loosest tolerances. Run a couple hundred rounds of nato 5.56 over a chronograph and you will see the standard deviation is much higher than the commercial .223 ammo. This is because the tolerances are wider for the 5.56 load.
That would also make scence to me as ex army .
do you mean to say that 5.56 has more misses on targets than 0.223? trying to understand your comment. Use 5.56 or 0.223 in an AR? new to the conversation and looking to make purchases for what's coming. Thanks
@@ethoslogospathos 5.56 is just less consistent. For most shooting you will never know the difference. The only time I have a noticeable difference is when shooting through a really accurate rifle or shooting over the chronograph. The average ar with a 5.56 chamber will shoot under 3 moa with any ammo. Cheap 5.56 ammo will be within that standard as well.
Assuming you want to have a decent supply for personal use and possibly bartering, I would buy as much as you can afford at the cheapest price possible... Whatever that may be.
Steel case stuff is fine if your rifle will function with it, just make sure to try it before you buy a bunch. It also may be less desirable in a bartering world since other folks rifles may not function with it.
I want to add my voice to the others saying that this was the best, most concise explanation vid that I've seen. OP put it exactly as my FFL guy did when I bought my M&P15X. Well done, good sir!
I recall shooting green tip ammo in the late 80's and we never considered it as "Armor Piecing" during the debates over banning such ammo however I had some 9mm steel core and 30;06 black tip solid steel armor piecing that was not good for the bore but could go through one inch T1 steel plates at 100 yards , that was real armor piecing. Depleted uranium is the mother of armor piecing .
I shoot M855 green tip through my rifle, it's considered armor piercing and I have noticed more damage to targets with those rounds.
piercing, not piecing
@@brycefrazier8173 ahh yes the grammar police have arrived I thank you for your service
@@brycefrazier8173 get a life
11:46 "I hope that you found this video useful" I did. I love to hear the science behind it all.
I'm new to this small arms world (I "grew up" with an M14), and one of my main questions was answered: Can both cal. cartridges be fired from both cal. rifles? Well, just a few weeks ago I bought a 5.56 rifle and both .223 and 5.56 ammo. Glad to know it's the right cal. rifle.
5’3” girl vs 5’4” girl? Who cares get one of each.
SoCal Longie found the Mormon lol
more like 5'3" and 5'3.25"
Girls don't explode. Mistakenly loaded ammo does (5.56 ammo in .223 rifle). Of course .223 Wylde handles both.
I prefer my girls between 5'7 and 5'9.
@@wangjingze1367 uh correction.... You can't make a girl explode.... I can 😉
I had heard the 5.56 free bore was larger than .223 but holy cow, double...... Thanks for clearing that up
5'12" vs 6'
I see what you did there...
😂
Egglis Boingo 5’12” is usually legit, 6’ is usually 5’11-11.5”. Never trust 6’. Always carry 5’12”
6 vs half a dozen
72 inches vs 1828.8mm
I've been reloading since dirt. Your info is very accurate. I've reloaded thousands of 223 ammo. Excellent factual video
Very relevant and important information for my reloading method as I use both .223 and .556. My main varmint rifle is a Remington 700 with a heavy 1:12 , 26" barrel. Then three AR's. Two 1:7 and one 1:9. I have been using the AR's with low quality bullets to ring steel at 440 yards. A lot of fun to use open sights.
Thank you for this video :o I hear locals talking about how .223 & 5.56 are pretty much the same ammo. But none of them have mentioned or explained to me more in details what differs the 2 from each other like what I have learned from this here.
His video was bs. The max limits are not even close. The difference is so small you can fire 5.56 all day long in 223 with no issues.
Perhaps the finest comparison of these two rounds I have ever seen. Great job!
Compound this by modern commercial ammo that is marked ".223/5.56" on the box.
gavintoobe, have you ever heard of anyone blowing a rifle changing from one to the other? Your explanation is spot on about pressure testing and chamber dimensions and I can see where one might think it's dangerous. In reality, I've shot both cartridges in both chamber configurations since the late 60s, early 70s in AR's, various bolt rifles and a couple of single shot (T. C. Contenders and Ruger #1) with no ill effects. If there is a substantial difference, it would probably be in accuracy. Then again, maybe after thousands of rounds down range, I was just extremely fortunate.
its the end of august in 2020 and am pretty jelly of the amount of ammo this guys has.
If that's all he has he's not doing it right
It’s brass, next time pay attention.
riiiight i cant find 8mm mauser to save my life that isnt steel core
Then don't look in my safe.
@@NibNa5ty then just use the ap rounds lol.
I purchased a Ruger Mini 14 at the Marine Corps Exchange on base not long before I discharged the Corps. Soon after I got into reloading and purchased a Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading when it was a new book, dated June 1973. On page 72 loading data for the Remington 223 has an introductory paragraph or two about the 223. First line of the second paragraph states: "The prospect of surplus military cartridges and a plentiful supply of once fired military brass for the 223 has encouraged predictions that this round will ultimately surrpass the 22 Remington Magnum in popularity." This was of course long before the current trendy thought came along and it simply states the obvious simple facts. There are different primer pockets on current military brass yes, but some say it was not always that way, and it doesn't really matter. The primers on today's military brass are different. But the only real difference between the 5.56X45 NATO and the 223 Remington is marketing. "Buy this 5.56 and it is better than that other guys 223 Remington." In fact, you could never, never find any load data for a 5.56 NATOin any loading manual until that all came about, and it has now gone so far, to please those owners of rifles marked 5.56 that they now print loading manuals with different loads for 5.56 and 223 Remington rounds. Now the millenials are beginning to say the 7.62 X 51 NATO is not really the same as a 308 Win.
Marketing, that is the difference between the two, and that is it.
Personally,I’ve fired 5.56 in 223 rifles and 223 in 5.56 rifles, no issues. Many comment and clearly their info is theory based. Great info video.
Your tempo and oratory skills coupled with the wealth of accurate info you presented in this video is Superb. Great job 👏🏽 Sir 🫡
I've always heard the "rule" you mentioned: .223 & 5.56 can both shoot safely in a 5.56 barrel. So always get a 5.56 barrel and no problems.
.223 Wilde is slightly tighter than 5.56 and slightly looser than .223 and will handle both, with a possibility of greater accuracy with the 5.56 loads.
@@georgesakellaropoulos8162 5.56mm = 0.2189" which is a full 0.0045" smaller than 0.223" is. So going even tighter than 5.56mm is heading in the wrong direction if you're looking for compatibility. Being as 5.56mm is already too tight as it is.
@@1pcfred 5.56 is bore diameter. Add 7-9 (typically 8) thousandths for the grooves.
@@georgesakellaropoulos8162 projectiles still have to squeeze between the lands.
Got certified FFL and ship to all states.. ammunition available are: 9mm, 5.56, 223, 45acp, 65creedmor, 22lr, 380,and more ..
Dm us if interested and purchase up your ammo online
223 is useless ammo send me all you have for safe disposal 😝
🤣🤣🤣
Now that's funny right there...
Where do I send
Send to Me... I'll take those mean old useless rounds 🤭🤭🤭🤭😂😂😂😂😂
Ok send address and list of all Freedom tools in your inventory 😉
Outstanding presentation. I am an instructor (50 years & a reloader & military retired) excellent training film.
I love the way you call your videos, "stories." It sounds more accurate and pleasing than "articles" or "videos." :)
I've seen what 5.56 does to the chest of a human body first hand, tiny hole and massive internal damage, due to hydra-shock, small exit wound. Resume: Disabled combat veteran, 2003 Iraq, Najaf, Karbala, Baghdad and Fallujah.
I have an ar, its well used.. but I am concerned with the many stories of "skinnies" and I use that word because it allows for what I've heard can happen.. with less tissue to pass through the bullets can go right through without the use of hp rounds as NATO demands. So the round can go straight through a thinner person and keep going without massive damage. Lots of stories have come out with enemies being struck multiple times in center mass and they walk away.. not exactly ideal in combat.. lots of times there's just a straight .22 hole pass through without significant damage.
yes but 223 goes in tumbeling and dont always come out that can cause all kinda problems !
roger buss III if I read correctly that's because they were using the armor peircing green tips, which would work better against Armor obviously. And also I read another story about it in Afghanistan where the green tips combined with terrorists being hopped up on heroine, made the bullet seem useless. Not sure though.
@@iamtj111 Green tip is not an armor piercing round. And even if they were, the terminal ballistics of the 556 round are good, going straight through a target and the target still fighting had less to do with its terminal ballistics and more to do with the fact that alot of enemy combatants were hyped up on all sorts of drugs.. pcp.. lsd.. you have it, there were bad guys on it. That's why we started training failure drills, the infamous 2 to the chest, one to the head.
Would these doped-up dudes keep coming at you if you plugged them with a 30-06 round from an M-1?
Appreciate the technical explanations, but I feel your warning for .223 rifle owners to avoid 5.56 ammo is based more on theory than reality.
In my youth I was a military instructor, and I owned a Remington 700 in .223. For years I shot 5.56mm and .223 ammo interchangeably with no pressure signs whatsoever.
Time for a reality check:
The .223 and 5.56 have been around for 60 years, and billions of rounds have been fired, often in cross-platform chambers.
I have never heard of any - repeat ANY - .223 rifle failures traced to using 5.56mm ammo.
No breakage, no damage, no injuries. In 60 years.
The simple fact is that if you fire 5.56mm in a .223 rifle you may be adding a bit of stress to the action, but I suspect it's no more than the load-to-load variations found in factory ammo and chamber variations.
Conclusion: You're not "risking your life" when you fire 5.56 mm ammunition in a .223 rifle. Let's lower the drama and keep it real.
Thanks again for a great presentation.
It's not drama, because - lawyers.
I see this comment in .223/5.56 threads quite often. Having .223 that I've fired 5.56 through, I've never experienced failures in my firearms, either. I get the geometry is slightly different which leads to pressure differences, but I've never noticed a difference. I don't make a habit of firing 5.56 in .223, but it's never been an issue for me.
here here
Now this is what my personal experiences have been .
Truth. I was taught in the military 35yrs ago that the rounds were completely interchangeable in either barrel.
Although titled as a versus video, I found it to be a good "know your load data for cartridge" video. Nice job.
I haven't used this cartridge since my 70s days in the USMC and I don't own an AR, but I do own a.308 bullpup and find it to be more suitable for my preferences. I did think the M16 was easy to shoot and my last score in 1977 was 248/250 for Qualification.
bought a colt AR-15 back in 70s and used both .223 and 5.56. Back then they were considered one and the same. never had a problem with factory or my reloaded ammo. That was thousands of rounds. nor could I tell the difference when firing them. Im tired of this argument. Just open both rounds up and see the powder loads (mainly Ball powder). same powder grain wts and matched the documented data from the ammo manufacturers at the time.
Colt SP-1's of 1970's vintage had 5.56 chambers.. If you listened to the presentation you would know that all variations of .223 and 5.56 can be fired safely from a 5.56 chamber as its the largest, longest free bore chamber available in the AR Platform.
I over heard a moron PUNK gun counter boy at Cabala's telling customers the 5.56x45 blows up guns marked 223 like a bomb !
The jackass then said the sound of 5.56x45 was loader than a 50 BMG .
This is a big gripe of mine that these stores hire such dumb asses to sell guns to possibly people who want there first gun and believe the person behind the counter is a gun expert.
The next week I was again at the same Cabala's story watching another stupid PUNK gun counter boy telling customers that all guides in Alaska use for bear hunting is Glock 9mm pistols, so all they need is a good 9 mm for all Alaska hunting.
@@rainmechanic you will have zero issues..zero, if you fire 5.56 in a 223. The specs are so high the loads dont even remotly come close.
@@Lure-Benson i think you need to see a psychiatrist.
@@frigglebiscuit7484 that being said by a punk ass idiot addicted to fuck up video games that used some crap photo for the channel you have.
If you can't stand truthful information from a gun builder and Alaskan hunting guide don't read it.
This is the most detailed explanation I've yet seen on the differences and similarities between 223 and 5.56. Now do one on the 308 vs 7.62 NATO debate.
7.62 x51 Nato is a .308 round.There is no debate.
@@larrynew7258 Says the guy who is debating me.
@@Paladin1873 what kind of fish are de baits for?
@@shawntailor5485 Don't use de bait. You might get hookworm.
@@shawntailor5485 If you get hit by either something called a 308 or 7.62x51...you will be cut bait.
I found that .223 load data is ever so slightly lighter on pressure at max loads. Now I don't load max loads so it's a non issue for me. I load to a spec within both 5.56 and .223 and just swage the primer pocket on 5.56 before loading.
Excellent video. Thank-you! I re-watch this video about once a year. It is full of quality information from start to finish. Thank-you once again for posting this. 👍👍👍
short version, leave it to the gov to make things unnecessarily complicated!
Obviously you're not a veteran or familiar with the many different bullet specs for same rounds in military chambers.
theres a difference between the same round with different specs ie .556 that AP, tracer, etc - than a round that is +/- 0.00whatever different
John Mediadozena
the 5.56 was derived from the .223 which was American, that a consortium of international governments made unnecessarily complicated - hows that???
@John Mediadozena 5.54?
That's what we pay them for, isn't it? And we expect them to take as long as possible to do it.
Here I sit at my desk once again attempting to dodge work and responsibility yet appear to be doing both, I find myself in shock and disbelief. This highly educational and well researched video reignited the ember of hope I was clinging to that reason, research, and critical thinking may still exist.
I too an dodging work watching this video lol
@@curtismundie4931 Damn -- busted. Me too!
And you should all be proud of your self's.
What fine people you must be.
". . . reason, research, and critical thinking may still exist." They all still exist, but have always been rare and hard to find. For what it's worth, I am retired and my boss/wife knows I'm just wasting time on the internet. She's fine with that. ;-)
@@charlessmith6412 LMAO
5.56 vs .223 ammo sounded good, but I worked at Lake City. At the time, ATK operated Lake City Army Ammunition Plant and also owned Federal (among many other shooting-related companies). We would often move overproduction 5.56 at Lake City to Federal and sell it as American Eagle 223. The lucky soles purchasing those rounds would get mil-spec ammo (and precision) at hillbilly ammo prices.
I didn’t even know I wanted to know all of this. As always, man, I’m leaving your video smarter than this morning. Thanks, Gavin.
@ Jony Van; thanks,
I couldn't have said it better. 👍
Everyone saying "this was pointless they're basically the same", you absolutely missed the point of the video lmao
Both rounds are exactly the same,only different.
It was never even an issue untill recently. The 5.56 was the military designation for the Remington .233. i owned an old Mini 14(the one with the wood handguard) and fired thousands of 5.56 ammo with no issues. It seems the difference is 5.56NATO is loaded to mil spec and .223 is SAAMI spec.
@Slow Flight Thank you Sir!
@@joerobo682 I have mini 14 ranch and shot both .223 and 5.56. I had fte on 5.56 and no fte on .223. Both had same grains.
Verry well said safety first. I have been reloading over 40 years with no accidents that's because Dad taught me to be safe when reloading ammo.dont reload when when u don't feel good or don't have time.be careful and be safe 🤔
I’ve wondered about this for years but never did the research.
When I was stationed in Hawaii back in the 90s we had one of the units in our brigade have a parade ceremony for, I’m assuming, their battalion commander who was retiring. They were carrying their M16s, slung on their shoulders.
The story that went around was that a soldier had gotten divorced and his wife and family had left the island. This soldier, again here-say, supposedly went into Mililani and bought some .223 rounds. As they were returning their weapons to the armory, this guy dropped a mag of .223s in the rifle, charged it and tried to shoot his platoon leader who was on the phone at the CQ desk, but the rifle misfired, he pulled SPORTS on the rifle and dropped the lieutenant then put two more in his head and chest.
I had spent the night with a family that had kind of taken me under their wing and Sgt. Thompson was dropping me off at the barracks, as I came around the corner there were soldiers running everywhere with M16s, I can remember hearing pops echo through the buildings and just as I peaked around the edge I saw the guy shoot himself under the chin and the top of his head flip up like a bottle cap.
The crazy thing was, they left that soldiers body lay there in that field all night right in front of the barracks.
Haven’t thought about that in 30+ years.
Guess the point is, like you said .223 will work in 5.56 chamber.
This has to be the most comprehensive discussion on the debate. Thank you so much.
I've been working under the assumption that it is safe 5.56 brass using .223 data even for my 5.56 chamber, since I have a mixture of both kinds of brass. I haven't seen any blown out cases so far.
I would also assum that would be the safe. I mean were not needing any super long ojive bullets and were 223 is lighter on pressuere lighter is always more safe.
Thanx for your comprehensive and detailed clarification. Answered my questions.
He answered questions i didn't even know I had. Good vid.
Thank-you so much for putting this story together. I appreciate easy to understand explanations, and yours were/are. You answered many questions other shooters and I had. Look forward to seeing some of your other productions.
Wylde chambered will safely accept either ammo without issue. 👍
12:20 minutes non stop, no editing, no Bull SH, pure facts and good info for the beginner? WOW! Awesome
Thank you for the vid brother; my father was an army ranger who died very young in my life. It’s videos like this that allow me to learn and hopefully make my pops proud;
The gun community is really toxic to newcomers and videos like this create a nonjudgmental viewpoint on how to explain SIMPLE things. Thanks man
Sorry to hear about the toxicity. We all have to start somewhere unless be become ignorant. Ignorance and deadly weapons make a deadly combination. Best of luck!
I purchase a colt ar 15 in 1980 in 223 Remington. It is stamped on the barrel. I called colt about shooting 5.56 nato in this rifle and they said that it was ok. No problem.
Thank you SO much for an incredibly informative video on this contested subject! One of my rifles is an older Ruger Mini-14 and I would never dream of loading 5.56 simply because .223 is stamped on the gun. I'm just getting into reloading and you've provided a wealth of information as well as a solid foundation from which to explore. Thank you sir! Safe shooting and have a fantastic day!
Ruger has stated that all their minis with the exception of the Target models can shoot either
I bought a new Ruger Mini 14 in 1982 I still have the gun and owners manual that came with it. The receiver is stamped Cal .223. The owners manual clearly states that either 5.56 NATO or Remington .223 can be safely fired in the Mini 14. Ruger should know!!!
It’s my understanding that Ruger marked early Mini 14 receivers .223 Remington only because there was no SAAMI standard for 5.56 NATO, but all of them have 5.56 NATO chamber dimensions (except the Target model as mentioned). So I think you can fire 5.56 safely from any Ranch model. But then, not much difference in cost of ammo and never hurts to err on the side of safety.
@@WesB1972 Thanks for the info. I lost my original owner's manual, but purchased mine in the early 2000's so I assume the same applies.
Good explanation of why not to use 5.56 in 223 and very interesting explanation of different pressure measurement, thank you. Any chance you could do the same comparison for the 308 vs 7.62x51 ?
As a handloader, my AR is stamped 5.56 so I load everything to 5.56 specs. As far as the leade goes, anyone loading ammunition should know that bullet seating depth insures that there is enough leade to allow the bullet to start moving so peak pressure is lower when the bullet enters the rifling, no excessive pressure. A round without enough leade will cause signs of excessive pressure, blown primers, etc. Military ammo varies with the type of bullet. A tracer, with an ogive differing from ball ammo may fit great in a 5.56 chamber but go too far into the leade in a .223 chamber, causing excessive pressure. Not an absolute, but it is a possibility. Good video explaining that the great difference between the two rounds is really in the chamber, not the case.
The difference is the case. Military brass is thicker, because they have to use them if fully automatic weapons that have a nasty habit of tearing the heads off the cartridge cases. So the military brass has a slightly smaller case capacity. If you load both with the same charge and bullets, the military brass will develop higher pressure since the same volume of gas is being generated in a smaller space.
UNITED POLICE STATES OF AMERICA look another RUclips punk bull shitter giving reloading advice from playing fucked up video war games.
What you wrote tells every experienced shooter and reloaded that you never touched a real gun you're life.
Rara, I have been shooting for 40+ of those 13 years and reloading for over 30 years. Plus 14 years in the Marine Corps shooting the M-16A1 and A2. I will assume that if you have nothing to say except to try to insult someone you don't know, then you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation. Some reasons for pressure can be not enough leade, to much crimp on a bullet case mouth, too much powder, an obstruction in the bore, and many others. Pick up a reloading manual and read, there are different min and max dimensions for loading ammo. If there isn't enough room for the bullet to move forward prior to being swaged into the rifling, it will result in high pressure. Sometimes enough to blow up the gun.
This is one of the most informative, well thought out videos I have seen on this subject. I worked on these guns in the military. The chambers ARE different. The chamber specs are not even called off the same point. The US military uses the intersection of the body line and shoulder to call length. SAAMI uses a ball system. In theory, the numbers come out the same, but ammunition specs are so loose that it does not always work out. Throw in European CIP specs and things can get "Iffy". I have not really kept up on the .223/5.56, but the military case used to be much heavier, especially at the neck. This is a critical point in chamber allowance.
looking at those BAGS of ammo just makes me sad.
Casings
Brass
Come over to my range.. I've got thousands of brass casings that need picking up..
Thanks for the review. So much to learn, this was another piece of the pie. From someone who is old school thinking 30-06 in my M1 Garand was minimal stopping power
Great explanation, easy to follow. Appreciate the time taken to make it quick and simple for those new to the long gun world 👍
You win. This is the best video I've ever seen on this subject and I've heard ALL kinds of crap. Do this, don't do this, only on a full moon, ask your mom, blah, blah, blah. Subscribed.
I know. this was the most informative video if you listen to the message.
Thanks for a great video. Both my ARs have multi-cal chambering. They have eaten 5.56 and .223 without complaint, but I primarily shoot 5.56, std ball. I clean after every shoot, so the barrels & chambers always get a good look-see with the LED snake.
They are the same thats not multi caliber the dimensions of both are the same
Dude just straight nerded out on this ammo comparison... nice
I had always believed. 223 Remington was 5.56 with the same casing and projectile but a smaller powder load, good to know I was flat out wrong 😂
Actually if you look at load data for the two. The 5.56 does have a bit larger powder charge than the 223.
Such as Accurate 2230 for the 62 gr m855 in 223 calls for 21.4 to 23.8gr of powder. The same powder charge, same bullet in the 5.56 calls for 22.8 to 25.3gr of powder.
Daniel Myers-Cowan that effects material cost in manufacturing asa whole smaller load less casing material , had they just did one case size they would essentially being throwing money away
Yeah this is not like the case of .38 Special vs .357 Magnum or .44 Special vs .44 Magnum where they made it slightly longer so you could load magnum into a non-magnum chamber, right from the start on that cutaway you can see differences in the thickness of the rim and dimensions of the primer pocket.
Glad you still have all your fingers!!
There's a lot of talking smack on the internet regarding 5.56 v. .223 Remington. Here's the skinny: They are dimensionally very similar. The difference between the two types of ammunition lies in the difference between civilian and mil-spec. chambers/throats in carbines/rifles, and also the materials/workmanship of the respective cartridges and their components.
Civilian hunting arms for example, even semi-auto variety, are not designed to be fired in long, rapid strings of fire. They have tighter chamber/throat dimensions to enhance accuracy, at the cost of some reliability and accuracy when hot. This is true of some, but not all, civilian carbines/rifles in .223 Remington. Mil-spec. rifles/carbines in 5.56 NATO, however, are purposely-designed to have more-generous chamber/throat dimensions to enhance reliability when the weapon is dirty, hot and fouled. These characteristics also enhance function with belted/linked ammunition or when a weapon is fired in full-auto - or both. Similarly, the 5.56 NATO case is made more-stoutly, with heavier, thicker walls and annealing. Again, the added material in the case is to allow the cartridge to withstand full-auto operation, or operation under tough and dirty field conditions - or both. The military trades a bit of accuracy potential to achieve these characteristics. Civilian .223 Remington chambers, such as those used in match-grade service rifles with Wylde Chambers, can be tighter since they are not called upon to function under the same set of conditions as mil-spec. arms. The overall tighter dimensions and more-stringently observed construction allow the rifle to be significantly more-accurate. But at the cost of reliability when dirty, hot or fouled. The online myth is that 5.56 is loaded to "higher pressures" than civilian ammunition. This is often false. Civilian .223 hunting ammunition, not falling under NATO guidelines, is free to be loaded to hotter, higher pressures than mil-spec. ammo. or not, as the manufacturer pleases. Since NATO brass is thicker and more-rigid on the whole than civilian .223 brass, it needs 1-2 grains less in charge of a given powder to produce the same MV as its civilian .223 counterpart, bullet weights identical. The proviso not to use .223 ammo in 5.56 rifles/carbines perhaps stems from this difference,and from the fact that NATO-spec brass is tougher and less-likely to be torn upon extraction. Another caution is that since 5.56 NATO chamber dimensions are more-generous, the .223 Rem. case is -or may not be - as well-supported as in a .223 civilian-spec arm.
The allowances and tolerances are not only variable between gunsmith companies, there will be variation from the beginning to end of a single run as the production tooling wears. When purchasing industrial market thread taps (as an easy example), you must specify the overage, 3mil 7mil etc, this overbores the threads. While a 7mil over is a sloppier fit than 3 mil the 7mil tap will last more than twice as long on the production line as it has an extra 4mils of to wear down. Also interesting is that both will have equally tight and the closest dimensions at their max wear just before they are replaced.
An external tool like a thread die is the opposite, they all start at minimum tolerance end loose. So if you get a new tap and new die you will have a very loose fit, a worn tap and worn die will be a tight fit; this is called "tolerance stacking". A custom machine builder whether firearms or engines will "blueprint" their inventory of parts to match tolerances, over with over, under with under, to reduce tolerance stacking and get better consistancy.)
Glad I did my homework before I purchased my AR 15 5.56 mil spec ...
Thanks for the confirmation that my choice was correct 👍
On another note ....
I've always been amazed how many "experts" claim .223 & 5.56 are the same ....
Clearly the pressure dictate to the contrary.
Education is paramount in ballistics and firearms ... your life depends on it!
The round is the same.The casing and the powder charge are just very slightly different.Try reloading.You will learn something.
@@larrynew7258 "The round is the same, except these two major things"
Finely a wonderful video covering the true differences with the 223 and the 5.56. Well done I hope to view more of your informative videos in the future.
Awesome! I needed to watch this to verify the strength of my AR-15 223. I was worried that this gun might not be as strong as I thought. No I see its much stronger than I thought! Thanks brother!👍👏✝️
Quite the detailed vid. Thank you.
I’m very fortunate as my Springfield Armory Saint cycles both .223 and 5.56. When at the range, I train with .223 as the cartridges are cheaper than 5.56. My go bag mags are loaded with Hornady Black 5.56 62gr FMJ.😎
Love this video! Very informative and explained in a way that is easy to understand. Can you do .308 vs 7.62?
7.62x51 has 50,000 psi while .308 has 62,000 psi, so get a .308 so you can shoot both
@@nicholasdeathgem8447 Yes.....it's funny that 7.62 is opposite...
@@nicholasdeathgem8447 That's the difference in the powder charge.The round is the same.
Lesson learnt:
Use the specified ammo whenever you can (find, afford, etc...)
All technicalities aside, when Ruger says my early model Mini-14 can fire either cartridge, I believe them. They built the thing, they know its capabilities!
That's fine because a mini 14 has a sloppy chamber and it will shoot all of it, but none of it well.
It was my experience, and I read others with the same issue, that the early model Mini-14's would typically hold a 6" group at a hundred yards. Could that have been from machining the chambers to allow for the increased free bore distance of the 5.56? That way it could have shot either caliber safely, but when they tightened up the chambers to increase accuracy on later models, maybe they quit saying it was OK to use either caliber. I don't know. Just raising the question.
My 1982 mini 14 owners states either cartridge can be safely fired in the rifle. Ruger should know.
@@WesB1972 My sentiments exactly! As for accuracy, the rifle is more accurate than I am these days (80+ years old). A 6 inch group of five shots at a hundred yards would be really great, IMO!
Excellent video ! I did watch the entire video. Stellar information on such an back and forth on the construction of 5.56 and .223.
Top notch display, and visual aids to explain.
I plan to watch your entire series.
Thank you !
JP
i need to buy a few bags like that for 556
No, you need a few thousand round cases. Not a few bags.
I have seen and heard the differences explained before, but not this clearly! Excellent diagrams and clear explanations! Thanks
Thanks Gray!
Gavin is a wealth of knowledge and certainly makes it easier to understand. I would love to hear him give his insight to the .223 Wylde chamber, and loading for it.
Very useful detail. I'm in the middle of a huge reloading progject for AR rifles, and my brass is completely mixed. This has given me a LOT to think about!
Just load em up
Three out of three violent felons oppose the defensive use of 223 during mostly peaceful protests/ riots.
Heh heh... Thanks for the chuckle 😁👍
Kyle " the cleaner " rittenhouse
If only Ashli Babbit could attest to it, too bad she only shot with a pistol caliber :/
Kyle 2.0 drinks red bull and gives pedos wings
Meh. Most of us just want our constitutionally protected Rights to be honored as we don't understand how we can be punished after we've paid our debt to society.
Great info, I knew there was a difference but didn’t know where. Thanks for the information, I learned a lot.
Watching this video a few days after shooting an M-4 Carbine for the first time! :)
From the Ruger owners manual for 180 series: Any Ruger Mini14 is capable of using EITHER .223 or 5.56 ammunition . Manual is avaliable online. Note that this is from the 180 series annual. Get your correct manual and RTF...
True, the Mini uses the deeper jump chamber.