223 -vs- 5.56: FACTS and MYTHS
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- Опубликовано: 25 янв 2025
- Full Story: bit.ly/2neNXAS
Here it is! Essential facts and common misconceptions related to both 223/5.56 ammunition, as well as 223/5.56 rifles. Don't forget to check out the full write-up! (see link above).
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89.6% of the comments left on this video are from people that obviously didn't watch the entire video. PLEASE WATCH FIRST, THEN COMMENT! :)
gavintoobe why do you have such a specific non discreet percentage? Did you run through all of the comments and divide the null responses by the total and multiplied by 100?
Lemurai satire lost here - but the actual numbers can’t be far from that! 😂
gavintoobe tbh, It’s a shame the masses could care less about this stuff, they just want to point and shoot, no research no technical jargon, BUT, I care, the difference between knowing and not knowing is a finger(s), hand, or a life. Plus exploring the technical aspect of it is something people should research more. I’m a student nurse anesthetist, we get a lot of preventable trauma cases like people trying to quick draw a Glock 22 like it was a revolver in their back yard. But anyway keep educating, it will save lives, is a great help to occupational health and prevents them from becoming a training tool for me in the OR.👍🏽 Def worth subscribing too!
@@joshmai8462 It's 5.56 MM - look on a military ammo crate/can. Do people say 556? Yes. Do people say 5.56 Yes. Do they mean the same thing? Absolutely.
Is shooting 5.56 in a 223 chambered rifle equivalent to the incremental damage done to a none nato specified handgun shooting 124gr or more ammo?
Another fun fact, as we all recently learned, a .223 round is capable of nearly severing an arm.
It will be leaving you wanting a medic I hear.
The most unfortunate thing about that issue is Communists are too stupid to learn. If that wasn't so, they would be constitutionalists not communists.
Hahahahahaha
@ Steve Witte. Crap.. that’s just a little ol’ .22. Hell, they were hurling .69 cal at each other during the civil war.
Crazy what kinetic energy can do even in such a small projectile.
Best 223 vs 556 discussion ever. Lots of facts, no speculation, appropriate warnings, and, greatly appreciated, no wasted words. Thank you.
@@Fister_of_Muppets if you want to live and love your life do not listen to this guy. He is dead wrong
@@baybreederbayarea510 🤦♂️🤡
Cost..... 223 is 5 or 6 bucks a box of 20. More of a hunting round. 5.56 is $.29 a round...
@Patrick Flatley apples and oranges.... Your arguments right. But. Not the right argument for this topic. Your explaining cost isn't important. when your life is on the line. I agree totally. BUT, your shooting 5.56 NATO. Not .223 (are you not)? I have never seen .223 green tip bullets. I would love to buy them if they make it.
My point was totally different! My point was saying why we shoot 5.56 in our .223 (primarily the early mini 14). And the cost of .223 is significantly higher than 5.56.
I hope you can understand the thread now. Out of respect, I do not wish to troll you.
My MAIN point, nobody has ever seen a .223 rifle blown up running. 5.56 in it. And we run 5.56 in our .223 due to cost.
@Patrick Flatley Your fine: I have a early mini . I have only shot a few hundred rounds of 5.56 in it never a ftf. But I do run brass, Never steel. Generally I fire other guns more.
Moreover, every gun Smith I meet, I ask if he's ever seen a .223 blown up running 5.56 in it. So far, none have.
One guy saw a ar (homebuilt Anderson) blow up running too hot hand loaded 5.56 in it. I guess the scales were off. Human error!
Federal used to have factory loads too hot sometimes, (lot of lots recalled) a uncle if mine had a savage 99 blow up when he had some 'double' loads in it. (2 sets of powder, and 2 bullets in 1 case). Federal bought him a new savage. - long time ago.
Barnes had a book with tables off, I was running 124 grains of hmr 3540 in a 30-378 weatherby in a sako action. MAX was 114 grains!
Gun held the super over pressure, though when primers started to vaporize I stopped shooting and found the issue. Point is, guns are built a lot stronger than rated.
Anyhow, have a nice day. Welcome home!
Doesn’t matter here in Summer 2020. Can’t find either.
Preach 😩
I couldn't find any either untill I shopped local. Go to a mom and pops gun store. I found plenty then.
really ? I just bought a 300 blackout :) happy now.
I just got 500 rounds of each in Orange a county
@@angelespino2513 Florida or Cali, never mind both are a disgrace.
In the late 60’s all of my military training was with the M-14 a big heavy weapon. Once I got to Vietnam with no training whatsoever I was given M-16. A bit of a shock but that lightweight rifle could pound out some round.
Wow one of those Guys too? I was Given an M16 and thought it was Fake! LOL.
@@billg4369 lol!!! I love you veteran's!! The guy I respect the most in this world was a Vietnam veteran he ran a M60 . whenever he tells me about his time over there it's crazy!! I have so much respect for what you guys went through!!! Man sometimes when he just talks nonchalant about daily life during that time it blows me away!!!one time I said I couldn't amagine being a tunnel rat in war and he responded we were all tunnel rats! You've never been more scared in your life!! They took turns I guess and sometimes they used dogs to but no matter a guy had go in two!! I don't think this nation has people like you anymore and it's scary as hell! This woke military now is just sad! Not to say their all that way....but come on!!! WTF happened to are pride and patriotic beliefs!!! Jesus Christ Biden is in the Whitehouse!!!! Every generation before gen z knows who he is and always has been!!! Now is older people have to stand up and try to be as great as you guys were!! Hard thing to do! Anyways god bless Jerry Smith!! A man worthy of mention! Yet he'd just say I was just doing my job!!! ........god bless America and long live the Republic!!!!
Thank you for your service. Many of us Americans appreciate your service more than we could ever possibly put into words.❤
Sir,
I discovered your site a few weeks ago by a lucky accident. While I have served in the Marines for almost 20 years, I have experience with many firearms from Flint & Wheel locks, Bolts to Pumps, Hand&Long guns to Howitzers and calibers from .117 to 120mm.
I have made gunpowder from scratch and enjoyed the reputation of being a Weapons Expert. What I have lacked is the knowledge of reloading. I want to express my gratitude to your channel for the explanation of how and why on reloading.
Thank you and God bless.
L.D. Morris
I just forgot all of my children's birthdays to make room for all that information.
Lord of the Plains holy shoot that made me cackle
LOL. I can identify!
Hopefully your children will remember what every generation of my family since we gave up our Titles from George respected... Never give up your arms or Society will become communist and disregard human life
LOL
Reason #14 why I don't have children
I kept imagining all the people watching this video with their eyes glazed over going “I just wanted to know if I could shoot this 5.56 in my AR”
Consult you manufacturer.
And you can if it's marked for a 5.56. But that's why I like my Galil, it's good for any and all of those cartridges, my Valmet was too. Hope those guys that stole them get their faces blown off!
@@Sealacamp my Springfield Saint will fire both also. I agree with you sentiment.
You sound like you watch Tim Pool. Lol.
Thats why I am here, but I am glad to have learned more than what I came for.
Dear Gavin Toobe, Yes we do need another 5.56 vs. 223 video. This was explained beautifully and cleared up a lot of questions I had. I thought I knew it all after shooting my AR 23 for years and the M16 in the Marine Corps. Thank you.-Paul
Paul, I've not shot a .223 but I own a .222 rifle. I trained with the M14 during basic but learned to shoot the M16 after I received my orders to head to Vietnam. I'm sure the ammo and the firearms are very different now than they were then. Time has a way of resolving the problems which the early models have since they don't always identify the issues until later on.
what is a AR 23 ?
During emergency situations at Clark AB Philippines in 1988-1990, I actually carried an early Colt production US Government owned AR-15s (no where on the rifle was "M-16" written) with XM-148s attached. The serial numbers were within the first 10,000 rifles produced, and caliber was listed as ".223 Remington".
Thanks for sharing Earl. I am retired USAF myself and this seems typical as the Air Force would be the last to change out our small arms. My 1st side arm in the 80's was a six shot .38 SPL revolver from the 1950's. Army was converting from the 1911 to the 9mm Beretta M9 during this time frame. Not knocking the USAF.....we are not a ground combat force and we simply use whatever Big Army uses for small arms...after the Big Army is equipped first.
@@TheKCaryer When I got to Clark in 1988, the Law Enforcement troops in the 3rd LES were all carrying M-9s. The Security Specialists in the 3rd SPS (which I was one) were generally carrying M-16s, M-203s, and M-60s. During emergency situations where we needed more people armed in both Squadrons we'd issue the Colt AR-15 601s with XM-148. When I got to the 97th SPS at Eaker AFB Arkansas in 1990, the LE troops were still carrying the .38 Special S&W M-15s. I also got a brand new M-16A2 at Incirlik AB Turkey in 1994, but had to switch back to an old M-16 at Minot AFB ND in 1995. What you carried depended on in which Major Command you were in. PACAF & USAFE got first dibs on new weapons, SAC & USAFSC had to wait. I'm sure Curtis E. LeMay is spinning in his grave knowing that his beloved SAC, & to a lesser extent Space Command, were getting "Shafted".
General Curtis LeMay had originally gotten the AR-15 for the Air Force; the ones noted here were probably from that batch. The Army initially didn't want this rifle, and it was the Army's production contract that brought changes that differentiated the Colt AR-15 from the M-16.
This may have been the rifle without a forward bolt assist. It was called the Air Force model. I qualified with it in AIT at Fort Gordon Gorgia.
@@earlwyss520
I don’t know about everybody else here, but I found this interesting.
I learned something.
Thanks for putting this video together. 👍🏼
This guy appears to be an engineer, so I learned something for sure.
Mikevdog - nothing wrong with being an engineer. 👍🏼 😉
no one can know about everyone else....can they🤔
same here, because I am over 1/2 century old and new to reloading. I am taking all the precautions I can.
Of all the 1000s of vids on the topic, this ones the most concise, thoroughly explored, and well explained. Thanks for the info. Nicely done!
Yeah then explain why thousands of shooters use 5.56 x45 in 233 chambers without problems or why reloads aren't blowing up guns that have more pressure than any commercial loads.
This is another b.s. video from an idiot that addmited in the video he did the research meaning the idiot doesn't have any personal hands on experiences with this subject.
The fool is just regurgitating hear say information .
You can just liar Adam Schiff as well as this fool.
I've always heard that a simple rule of thumb is that you can shoot 223 in any 5.56 chambered rifle but you should not shoot 5.56 in a 223 chambered rifle.
I always thought that 223 caliber was a small 6mm. So it's actually 5.56mm?
I have been informed by a former homeland security guy that I trust that 223 wylde is the only chamber that can fire both just fine. In fact he has been a family friend for over 20 years
@@kinnordjhs8694 facts
@@kinnordjhs8694 my father was a marine, police, and in homeland security.
You can shoot both out of a 5.56 chambered rifle all day everyday.
@@SubBubz oh. I didn’t know that. Only abt the one barrel cause it’s the one I have. Good to know
Your explination of the differences between the two cartridges is the best I've heard yet. Thank you.
Chuck
... explanation* ...
Got over 30 years experience with firearms (military, law enforcement, & F/A instructor), and now I actually understand the difference. Not a reloader but it was an interesting presentation. Plus I liked the additional points on the tracer rounds. Nice job and thanks.
I'm new, and want to make good purchases. Watching vids. AR or AK? I saw a couple vets with combat experience totally and equally make cases for both in the same video and both comfortable with their decisions. as non-combat vet, I have no clue. But when it matters I want to have the right equipment. Thanks brother.
@@ethoslogospathos Both are effective. It really depends on the purpose for the the rifle. I don't hunt anymore, so the larger caliber isn't necessary. Generally, my intent is home defense and range time. Between the two, I prefer the AR, it's a reliable and easy to shoot accurately, easy to maintain, and ammo is decently priced. Most importantly, my wife can also effectively handle it, which makes it extremely useful in potential home defense situations.
Who's part of the 10.4% that watched the entire video? Happy shooting and happy reloading!
Reloading, fun to mention, how to do ball ammo, ever try a 4inch block of aluminum afor smelting for wind roosters or mail box tops? The ball does alot more then a lead reload,quess the rest.
not me... looking just for the answer to sum up an otherwise uninteresting video
Jeffrey P - I had to get out 1/3 the way through video to prevent wasting any more of my evening.
SEEN TOO many of these STUPID videos ALREADY! 😡
Obviously NOT the Idiot who disagrees.
This is a very high level, well-researched vid packed with great info about the neverending 5.56/223 saga. I downloaded it to be replayed when I am in a bourbon induced coma and therefore more receptive to watching in its entirety (maybe even comprehending) in one sitting.
A fellow gentleman of class and status, I see.
Class act
@@joshuabeck6008 Lol
I am on the coma, i know what you try to say 🙂
Excellent information. I recall when I bought my first AR-15 I was a little freaked out about all the confusion surrounding 5.56 and .223. Once I learned that as long as I bought a 5.56 rifle I could shoot either I relaxed.
I did the same.
it is the way
It is the way , nice
I used an M16 when I was in the Army but didn't train on it until I got my orders to go to Vietnam. It's over 50 years ago, so a lot of things have changed. I read the early models of the M16 had issues with jamming but after we got out of Vietnam they found out the reason. Some idjit in the Ordnance Dept. changed the specs to ball powder instead of the long powder the manufacturer specified.
@@Harry-zz2oh Fisrt off thank you sir for your service. My dad and uncle's talking about the jamming issues they experienced in Vietnam kept me away from ARs. I've always been an AK guy. I traded around on a AR in my teens that looking back was built wrong and it really reinforced my disdain for the platform. A few years ago I decided to build an AR and wow it's not at all what I thought. Still love my AKs but I love my ARs too!
You delivered an exceptional, highly detailed description like no one else. Thank you!
Pressure is created, as soon as a bullet starts to engage the rifling. The rifling is slowing the forward progress of the projectile, and imparting a spinning motion. The bullet basically hits the brakes, when the rifling grabs hold of it. This creates added pressure, from the gases that are behind it, trying to propel it down the barrel. Basically, a .223 chambered firearm has LESS space between the chamber and the rifling(free bore, then throat). It's called bullet jump. Add THAT to the fact that a 5.56 bullet is designed to contact the rifling sooner anyway, because of its longer profile(where the bullet begins to curve to a point), and you have A LOT of added pressure created. I hope this adds to his explanation... Very good video!
Thanks, Bob.
I don't know that that's completely true, Jamie. Outside of unusual profile bullets, that longer throat isn't making that much of a difference. As evidence, have you ever found 55 grain "5.56" bullets for reloading as distinguishable from 55 grain ".223" bullets for reloading? And how can one set of reloading dies reload for both the .223 and 5.56? It's because they ARE identical for all PRACTICAL purposes so long as you are not dabbling in exotic composition bullets (like the tracer round profiled in the video). The longer freebore in a 5.56 chamber is so that it can reliably chamber a multitude of military loads (from various supply sources) in dirty battlefield conditions. You are not going to blow up a .223 chamber by firing the M193 and M855 5.56 loadings that get sold to us in the civilian market. And if you look at reloading manuals, you will see load data for longer bullet profiles (way over the 62 grain weight) in the .223 section. If the shorter freebore in the .223 is so dangerous, how can you load heavier (longer) bullets in it which either extend further into the freebore or sit back further in the case ... both of which increase pressure? We live in a day and age where everyone wants to limit liability. This is why the confusion. When asked point blank, no industry member will tell you it's OK to shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber. But yet how many label their products (ammo boxes, gun manuals, etc.) in such a way to caution you from doing so? It's because their lawyers haven't made them print the material that way ... because no one is suing them over blown up .223 chambers. It's a boogeyman and nothing more. Follow the money.
All this video showed me is to not fire 5.56 NATO tracer ammunition in a .223 Remington chambered rifle even though it shouldn't hurt the rifle or the shooter. People have been seating bullets out to just touch the rifling for well over 120 years for better accuracy. It is when you jam the bullet into the rifling that pressure problems occur, If the bolt closes easily then there should be no problem.
the main difference between mm AND calibre is one measures from the barrel inside diameter --->O
4/1000 (0.223 - 0.218897 = 0.004103)
Great video. One other item to consider is the tolerances accepted with .223 and 5.56 ammo. The 5.56 chamber allows for operation with ammunition loaded to the loosest tolerances. Run a couple hundred rounds of nato 5.56 over a chronograph and you will see the standard deviation is much higher than the commercial .223 ammo. This is because the tolerances are wider for the 5.56 load.
That would also make scence to me as ex army .
do you mean to say that 5.56 has more misses on targets than 0.223? trying to understand your comment. Use 5.56 or 0.223 in an AR? new to the conversation and looking to make purchases for what's coming. Thanks
@@ethoslogospathos 5.56 is just less consistent. For most shooting you will never know the difference. The only time I have a noticeable difference is when shooting through a really accurate rifle or shooting over the chronograph. The average ar with a 5.56 chamber will shoot under 3 moa with any ammo. Cheap 5.56 ammo will be within that standard as well.
Assuming you want to have a decent supply for personal use and possibly bartering, I would buy as much as you can afford at the cheapest price possible... Whatever that may be.
Steel case stuff is fine if your rifle will function with it, just make sure to try it before you buy a bunch. It also may be less desirable in a bartering world since other folks rifles may not function with it.
Now, we got that a side, how about .308 vs 7.62 x 51?
There's a much more apparent difference there, particularly when you consider gas guns with goofy operating rods.
Gregory Park I was going to say the same thing
Would you be thinking 7.62x54r? Those are similar based yet the difference that I know of is that the 7.62 has the boat tail and casing sizes are much more different.
He means .308 Winchester vs 7.62 x 51 Nato
50k CUP is much closer to 62k PSI than people think. There is 7.62 surplus that is higher pressure than commercial .308
I had heard the 5.56 free bore was larger than .223 but holy cow, double...... Thanks for clearing that up
As an Armourer in the Army, and hunter, it's a good article. True to detail.
Compound this by modern commercial ammo that is marked ".223/5.56" on the box.
Glad you made this video. I have been trying to explain this for 30 years.
I've been reloading since dirt. Your info is very accurate. I've reloaded thousands of 223 ammo. Excellent factual video
This explains some of the accuracy differences I have had with a Rutgers #1 in 223 when shooting 556 in it. Thanks for the explanation.
12:20 minutes non stop, no editing, no Bull SH, pure facts and good info for the beginner? WOW! Awesome
I want to add my voice to the others saying that this was the best, most concise explanation vid that I've seen. OP put it exactly as my FFL guy did when I bought my M&P15X. Well done, good sir!
5.56 vs .223 ammo sounded good, but I worked at Lake City. At the time, ATK operated Lake City Army Ammunition Plant and also owned Federal (among many other shooting-related companies). We would often move overproduction 5.56 at Lake City to Federal and sell it as American Eagle 223. The lucky soles purchasing those rounds would get mil-spec ammo (and precision) at hillbilly ammo prices.
I recall shooting green tip ammo in the late 80's and we never considered it as "Armor Piecing" during the debates over banning such ammo however I had some 9mm steel core and 30;06 black tip solid steel armor piecing that was not good for the bore but could go through one inch T1 steel plates at 100 yards , that was real armor piecing. Depleted uranium is the mother of armor piecing .
I shoot M855 green tip through my rifle, it's considered armor piercing and I have noticed more damage to targets with those rounds.
piercing, not piecing
@@brycefrazier8173 ahh yes the grammar police have arrived I thank you for your service
@@brycefrazier8173 get a life
Outstanding presentation. I am an instructor (50 years & a reloader & military retired) excellent training film.
Perhaps the finest comparison of these two rounds I have ever seen. Great job!
Been reloading for the AR for years without any problems. Yet this video did open my eyes with new thoughts. Thanks will look deeper into this. I use 24.5 grns CFE223 and a 62gn bullet. Great combo. Plus as far as the primer ring I had always beveled the ring and had pretty good success. Reason I do this is I had heard that removing the ring causes loose primers due to the excess space from the ring being removed. I'm not saying I'm right but it has worked for me.
Thanks for sharing. What is your method for beveling? I can imagine a stationary motor with grinding stone and you handle the brass one at a time working over the stone. Am I close?
I’ve wondered about this for years but never did the research.
When I was stationed in Hawaii back in the 90s we had one of the units in our brigade have a parade ceremony for, I’m assuming, their battalion commander who was retiring. They were carrying their M16s, slung on their shoulders.
The story that went around was that a soldier had gotten divorced and his wife and family had left the island. This soldier, again here-say, supposedly went into Mililani and bought some .223 rounds. As they were returning their weapons to the armory, this guy dropped a mag of .223s in the rifle, charged it and tried to shoot his platoon leader who was on the phone at the CQ desk, but the rifle misfired, he pulled SPORTS on the rifle and dropped the lieutenant then put two more in his head and chest.
I had spent the night with a family that had kind of taken me under their wing and Sgt. Thompson was dropping me off at the barracks, as I came around the corner there were soldiers running everywhere with M16s, I can remember hearing pops echo through the buildings and just as I peaked around the edge I saw the guy shoot himself under the chin and the top of his head flip up like a bottle cap.
The crazy thing was, they left that soldiers body lay there in that field all night right in front of the barracks.
Haven’t thought about that in 30+ years.
Guess the point is, like you said .223 will work in 5.56 chamber.
From the Ruger owners manual for 180 series: Any Ruger Mini14 is capable of using EITHER .223 or 5.56 ammunition . Manual is avaliable online. Note that this is from the 180 series annual. Get your correct manual and RTF...
True, the Mini uses the deeper jump chamber.
gavintoobe, have you ever heard of anyone blowing a rifle changing from one to the other? Your explanation is spot on about pressure testing and chamber dimensions and I can see where one might think it's dangerous. In reality, I've shot both cartridges in both chamber configurations since the late 60s, early 70s in AR's, various bolt rifles and a couple of single shot (T. C. Contenders and Ruger #1) with no ill effects. If there is a substantial difference, it would probably be in accuracy. Then again, maybe after thousands of rounds down range, I was just extremely fortunate.
Big difference between design specifications, machining tolerances, and practical example. Some of the chamber differences between .223 and 5.56 fall within machine tolerances of production weapons. The M16 was designed for rapid mass production. They are not hand-crafted precision instruments.
the M16 is exactly the AR or worse, trying to understand. thx
Everyone saying "this was pointless they're basically the same", you absolutely missed the point of the video lmao
Both rounds are exactly the same,only different.
It was never even an issue untill recently. The 5.56 was the military designation for the Remington .233. i owned an old Mini 14(the one with the wood handguard) and fired thousands of 5.56 ammo with no issues. It seems the difference is 5.56NATO is loaded to mil spec and .223 is SAAMI spec.
@Slow Flight Thank you Sir!
@@joerobo682 I have mini 14 ranch and shot both .223 and 5.56. I had fte on 5.56 and no fte on .223. Both had same grains.
Verry well said safety first. I have been reloading over 40 years with no accidents that's because Dad taught me to be safe when reloading ammo.dont reload when when u don't feel good or don't have time.be careful and be safe 🤔
I'm new to this small arms world (I "grew up" with an M14), and one of my main questions was answered: Can both cal. cartridges be fired from both cal. rifles? Well, just a few weeks ago I bought a 5.56 rifle and both .223 and 5.56 ammo. Glad to know it's the right cal. rifle.
Okay, so as a newb who is looking to but an AR (because the AG in my state is trying to ban them) I just want to be clear; if what I buy is chambered for 5.56 would I be perfectly fine feeding it .223?
James Allen yes
Fake Name Thank you for the reply!
But if you buy a .223 it is recommended that you do not use 5.55.
5.56 NATO chambered rifles can fire both, both .223 cannot fire 5.56 NATO... Well, it can, but it's well advised against it.
5.56 barrel can fire .223 no problem. .223 barrel is not advised to shoot 5.56. And. .223 Wylde barrel can shoot 5.56 no problem as well.
"SUBERSONIC" - So, neither subsonic, nor Supersonic, but right inbetween. Just Sonic. Or, as fast as a hedgehog.
It can be both supersonic and subsonic while in between, depending on altitude :)))))
Trans-sonic ammunition
I've found that the Hedge is more than just a bit more than Subsonic compared to the speed of my customized souped up acurized Silverado and especially on Fridays when I am on the way to the bank to get my check in before the bill collectors cash what I wrote out, they just can't get off to the hiway shoulder faster than a souped up Super Sonic Silverado goes by... Therefore Hedge Hogs are confirmed Subsonic critters...
LMFAO
@@RolandArthur Are you trying to dazzle a ballistics expert from Camp Perry and LE June Champion from 1990 on up? You are so full of shit and left fucking field you fucking stink... A 223 round and 5.56 Nato both leave the barrel almost 3,000 miles per hour. The problem with round has never been velocity.. It's been a distance and striking capacity issue... Nothing else... Now go back to the fucking Porn Channels where you are an authority on the subject matters..
Good explanation of why not to use 5.56 in 223 and very interesting explanation of different pressure measurement, thank you. Any chance you could do the same comparison for the 308 vs 7.62x51 ?
I purchased a Ruger Mini 14 at the Marine Corps Exchange on base not long before I discharged the Corps. Soon after I got into reloading and purchased a Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading when it was a new book, dated June 1973. On page 72 loading data for the Remington 223 has an introductory paragraph or two about the 223. First line of the second paragraph states: "The prospect of surplus military cartridges and a plentiful supply of once fired military brass for the 223 has encouraged predictions that this round will ultimately surrpass the 22 Remington Magnum in popularity." This was of course long before the current trendy thought came along and it simply states the obvious simple facts. There are different primer pockets on current military brass yes, but some say it was not always that way, and it doesn't really matter. The primers on today's military brass are different. But the only real difference between the 5.56X45 NATO and the 223 Remington is marketing. "Buy this 5.56 and it is better than that other guys 223 Remington." In fact, you could never, never find any load data for a 5.56 NATOin any loading manual until that all came about, and it has now gone so far, to please those owners of rifles marked 5.56 that they now print loading manuals with different loads for 5.56 and 223 Remington rounds. Now the millenials are beginning to say the 7.62 X 51 NATO is not really the same as a 308 Win.
Marketing, that is the difference between the two, and that is it.
its the end of august in 2020 and am pretty jelly of the amount of ammo this guys has.
If that's all he has he's not doing it right
It’s brass, next time pay attention.
riiiight i cant find 8mm mauser to save my life that isnt steel core
Then don't look in my safe.
@@NibNa5ty then just use the ap rounds lol.
I've been working under the assumption that it is safe 5.56 brass using .223 data even for my 5.56 chamber, since I have a mixture of both kinds of brass. I haven't seen any blown out cases so far.
I would also assum that would be the safe. I mean were not needing any super long ojive bullets and were 223 is lighter on pressuere lighter is always more safe.
I get all my replacement barrels chambered in .223 Wylde. Allows 223 accuracy with 556 NATO pressure safety
This ^
Same here, .223W handles both very nicely. It's all about the leade or freebore as it's called in the video. Good video by the way. 1.2k thumbs down, that's 1.2k owners that shouldn't.
I’m in the process of building a short barrel pistol. I purchased a .223 Wylde. I want to be able to shoot both .223 and .556. Additionally I want to buy the conversion BCG kit that will allow .22LR..
@@madcratebuilder i dont get how the freebore distance from about .0025 to .005 could really make so much difference, has anyone proven the accuracy is better
@@skie6282 Example if you put a round and the bullet is actually jammed in the rifling before you take a shot it will tend to produce more pressure. Could be 8,000 psi higher than the same round that has some free bore.
An analogy. If your car tire is up against a curb vs the tire is 2 feet from the curb. In which case do you have to apply more gas to get over the curb? Usually a rolling start will get you over it faster. Same thing with a bullet in the lands vs having some free bore.
AR-15 are meant to handle auto fire (even though they are semi) so they are built with more slop in the chamber. They can shooter better dirty, and it various temperature ranges than a gun with tighter tolerances in the chamber. If you want better accuracy just buy a bolt gun, they can deal with tighter chambers better.
I have a broad question. I own 2 Ruger Mini-14s. Both specify .223 Caliber on the back of the rifle. Ruger states you can shoot 5.56 but I have stuck with .223 Remington as I don’t want a catastrophic result. Any idea of why they are saying that or would you happen to know anything regarding the Mini-14 chambering? One is a 1983 year and the other is year 2000. Thanks 😊
Did you actually do a chamber check with your Ruger? If the manufacturer is OK with it then don't worry about it..
I've always heard the "rule" you mentioned: .223 & 5.56 can both shoot safely in a 5.56 barrel. So always get a 5.56 barrel and no problems.
.223 Wilde is slightly tighter than 5.56 and slightly looser than .223 and will handle both, with a possibility of greater accuracy with the 5.56 loads.
@@georgesakellaropoulos8162 5.56mm = 0.2189" which is a full 0.0045" smaller than 0.223" is. So going even tighter than 5.56mm is heading in the wrong direction if you're looking for compatibility. Being as 5.56mm is already too tight as it is.
@@1pcfred 5.56 is bore diameter. Add 7-9 (typically 8) thousandths for the grooves.
@@georgesakellaropoulos8162 projectiles still have to squeeze between the lands.
Got certified FFL and ship to all states.. ammunition available are: 9mm, 5.56, 223, 45acp, 65creedmor, 22lr, 380,and more ..
Dm us if interested and purchase up your ammo online
Very relevant and important information for my reloading method as I use both .223 and .556. My main varmint rifle is a Remington 700 with a heavy 1:12 , 26" barrel. Then three AR's. Two 1:7 and one 1:9. I have been using the AR's with low quality bullets to ring steel at 440 yards. A lot of fun to use open sights.
Now that we know! the thing im wondering is what are the facts and common misconceptions about the AR-15 vs a Phased plasma rifle in the 40 Watt range?
You can fire 5.56 in your Phased Plasma rifle. But, never fire 40 Watt plasma in your AR.
@@redguard2529 I think its more accurate if you fire it out of your ass. Hence the Nagasaki
@@redguard2529 mm'
Rifle is chambered for the .223 Wylde how does that compare to the .223 and the 5.56?
5'12" vs 6'
I see what you did there...
😂
Egglis Boingo 5’12” is usually legit, 6’ is usually 5’11-11.5”. Never trust 6’. Always carry 5’12”
6 vs half a dozen
72 inches vs 1828.8mm
I purchase a colt ar 15 in 1980 in 223 Remington. It is stamped on the barrel. I called colt about shooting 5.56 nato in this rifle and they said that it was ok. No problem.
This is awesome. Glad I went to your page from 6.5 guys. Great info, going to be sharing this one with my buddies.
Thanks! Glad to have you here.
@@Ultimatereloader I agree
I was in the US Army in September 1989 in South Korea; in fact, I had just arrived in country. Within a week of arrival, we moved up to the DMZ, I was a Cavalry Scout in the 2ID Cavalry Squadron 5-17 CAV. We started train up for a day and night patrol on the DMZ. It was to give the Infantry Battalion a day of for some R&R. Before we went out on patrol, we had to turn in our M16A1's and were issued M16A2's. I was told then that the ammo between the M16A1 & M16A2 were different and to make sure we only used the green tipped ammo. After I left the Army, I have been told so many times that there is no difference between the two rounds and told how stupid I was. I am very glad to see you saying what I said all along.
I didn’t even know I wanted to know all of this. As always, man, I’m leaving your video smarter than this morning. Thanks, Gavin.
@ Jony Van; thanks,
I couldn't have said it better. 👍
5’3” girl vs 5’4” girl? Who cares get one of each.
SoCal Longie found the Mormon lol
more like 5'3" and 5'3.25"
Girls don't explode. Mistakenly loaded ammo does (5.56 ammo in .223 rifle). Of course .223 Wylde handles both.
I prefer my girls between 5'7 and 5'9.
@@wangjingze1367 uh correction.... You can't make a girl explode.... I can 😉
It is my understanding that Ruger says its M14 clone in .223 Remington can fire either the .223 Remington or 5.56 Metricrap interchangeably.
I found that .223 load data is ever so slightly lighter on pressure at max loads. Now I don't load max loads so it's a non issue for me. I load to a spec within both 5.56 and .223 and just swage the primer pocket on 5.56 before loading.
Excellent video. Thank-you! I re-watch this video about once a year. It is full of quality information from start to finish. Thank-you once again for posting this. 👍👍👍
Thank you for this video :o I hear locals talking about how .223 & 5.56 are pretty much the same ammo. But none of them have mentioned or explained to me more in details what differs the 2 from each other like what I have learned from this here.
His video was bs. The max limits are not even close. The difference is so small you can fire 5.56 all day long in 223 with no issues.
Personally,I’ve fired 5.56 in 223 rifles and 223 in 5.56 rifles, no issues. Many comment and clearly their info is theory based. Great info video.
Dude just straight nerded out on this ammo comparison... nice
All technicalities aside, when Ruger says my early model Mini-14 can fire either cartridge, I believe them. They built the thing, they know its capabilities!
That's fine because a mini 14 has a sloppy chamber and it will shoot all of it, but none of it well.
It was my experience, and I read others with the same issue, that the early model Mini-14's would typically hold a 6" group at a hundred yards. Could that have been from machining the chambers to allow for the increased free bore distance of the 5.56? That way it could have shot either caliber safely, but when they tightened up the chambers to increase accuracy on later models, maybe they quit saying it was OK to use either caliber. I don't know. Just raising the question.
My 1982 mini 14 owners states either cartridge can be safely fired in the rifle. Ruger should know.
@@WesB1972 My sentiments exactly! As for accuracy, the rifle is more accurate than I am these days (80+ years old). A 6 inch group of five shots at a hundred yards would be really great, IMO!
Your tempo and oratory skills coupled with the wealth of accurate info you presented in this video is Superb. Great job 👏🏽 Sir 🫡
The allowances and tolerances are not only variable between gunsmith companies, there will be variation from the beginning to end of a single run as the production tooling wears. When purchasing industrial market thread taps (as an easy example), you must specify the overage, 3mil 7mil etc, this overbores the threads. While a 7mil over is a sloppier fit than 3 mil the 7mil tap will last more than twice as long on the production line as it has an extra 4mils of to wear down. Also interesting is that both will have equally tight and the closest dimensions at their max wear just before they are replaced.
An external tool like a thread die is the opposite, they all start at minimum tolerance end loose. So if you get a new tap and new die you will have a very loose fit, a worn tap and worn die will be a tight fit; this is called "tolerance stacking". A custom machine builder whether firearms or engines will "blueprint" their inventory of parts to match tolerances, over with over, under with under, to reduce tolerance stacking and get better consistancy.)
Great video brother! Thanks for taking the time to make and upload this video.
Here I sit at my desk once again attempting to dodge work and responsibility yet appear to be doing both, I find myself in shock and disbelief. This highly educational and well researched video reignited the ember of hope I was clinging to that reason, research, and critical thinking may still exist.
I too an dodging work watching this video lol
@@curtismundie4931 Damn -- busted. Me too!
And you should all be proud of your self's.
What fine people you must be.
". . . reason, research, and critical thinking may still exist." They all still exist, but have always been rare and hard to find. For what it's worth, I am retired and my boss/wife knows I'm just wasting time on the internet. She's fine with that. ;-)
@@charlessmith6412 LMAO
11:46 "I hope that you found this video useful" I did. I love to hear the science behind it all.
I just purchased a Ruger Mini 14. The barrel is stamped for either round. On of the reasons I bought it was because it doesn’t look like an “assault rifle” but will do most anything an AR will do.
......I have never heard the term subersonic.... Are you sure you didn't mispell Supersonic?
I saw that, too at 1:09 .
Context led me to rule out misspelling of "subsonic." "Subersonic" fits with "Supperession" IMHO.
quaak !
No. Its a bullet made from a scrapped subaru
How could he misspell a word you heard?
Quick observation, I have reloaded thousands of 223 ammunition as well as 556 and have seen many shells labeled as 223 to have the crimped primer. Not quite accurate that only 556 has that feature
Yes, almost all my ammo has it, even the 223
Thanx for your comprehensive and detailed clarification. Answered my questions.
He answered questions i didn't even know I had. Good vid.
My Windham barrel says .223 but when I reached out to them they said it was also rated for 5.56... just to confuse things even more
looking at those BAGS of ammo just makes me sad.
Casings
Brass
Come over to my range.. I've got thousands of brass casings that need picking up..
Thank you for the vid brother; my father was an army ranger who died very young in my life. It’s videos like this that allow me to learn and hopefully make my pops proud;
The gun community is really toxic to newcomers and videos like this create a nonjudgmental viewpoint on how to explain SIMPLE things. Thanks man
Sorry to hear about the toxicity. We all have to start somewhere unless be become ignorant. Ignorance and deadly weapons make a deadly combination. Best of luck!
short version, leave it to the gov to make things unnecessarily complicated!
Obviously you're not a veteran or familiar with the many different bullet specs for same rounds in military chambers.
theres a difference between the same round with different specs ie .556 that AP, tracer, etc - than a round that is +/- 0.00whatever different
John Mediadozena
the 5.56 was derived from the .223 which was American, that a consortium of international governments made unnecessarily complicated - hows that???
@John Mediadozena 5.54?
That's what we pay them for, isn't it? And we expect them to take as long as possible to do it.
Very useful detail. I'm in the middle of a huge reloading progject for AR rifles, and my brass is completely mixed. This has given me a LOT to think about!
Just load em up
I'm wondered if mixing the two cartridges in the same magazine is advisable or not.
Not a problem if you are running a chamber that's safe...
If your barrel says 223 , when that 556 is fired it most likely won't be ejected, it will get stuck in the chamber.
@@troyb.4101 : Nope. Fired thousands of 5.56 in .223 chambers. Never a stuck cartridge.
@Fart Zilla Maybe at medium (225yds) distance, but it's non critical. More like 1/16-1/32" difference. I've done this while hunting, and still head shot the rabbits, regardless of which one was chambered. What makes the range accuracy different, is different bullet weights. actually, I've found the 62gr, runs best out of my 1:9 barrel, and 70+ grain is better out of my 1:7. 55gr, also runs nicely out of my 1:9. The 55gr bullet will come apart from the 1:7 twist barrel sometimes.
This is the most detailed explanation I've yet seen on the differences and similarities between 223 and 5.56. Now do one on the 308 vs 7.62 NATO debate.
7.62 x51 Nato is a .308 round.There is no debate.
@@larrynew7258 Says the guy who is debating me.
@@Paladin1873 what kind of fish are de baits for?
@@shawntailor5485 Don't use de bait. You might get hookworm.
@@shawntailor5485 If you get hit by either something called a 308 or 7.62x51...you will be cut bait.
Thank-you so much for putting this story together. I appreciate easy to understand explanations, and yours were/are. You answered many questions other shooters and I had. Look forward to seeing some of your other productions.
i bought a .223 when i was young and was told i could use 5.56 surplus ammo, which i did because it was cheap. i fired hundreds of rounds and never had a problem, but maybe i was lucky. its a mini 14, not sure if that matters.
Ruger knows their customers are clueless. They made their rifle with NATO sized chambers. It says so in the owner's manual.
Appreciate the technical explanations, but I feel your warning for .223 rifle owners to avoid 5.56 ammo is based more on theory than reality.
In my youth I was a military instructor, and I owned a Remington 700 in .223. For years I shot 5.56mm and .223 ammo interchangeably with no pressure signs whatsoever.
Time for a reality check:
The .223 and 5.56 have been around for 60 years, and billions of rounds have been fired, often in cross-platform chambers.
I have never heard of any - repeat ANY - .223 rifle failures traced to using 5.56mm ammo.
No breakage, no damage, no injuries. In 60 years.
The simple fact is that if you fire 5.56mm in a .223 rifle you may be adding a bit of stress to the action, but I suspect it's no more than the load-to-load variations found in factory ammo and chamber variations.
Conclusion: You're not "risking your life" when you fire 5.56 mm ammunition in a .223 rifle. Let's lower the drama and keep it real.
Thanks again for a great presentation.
It's not drama, because - lawyers.
I see this comment in .223/5.56 threads quite often. Having .223 that I've fired 5.56 through, I've never experienced failures in my firearms, either. I get the geometry is slightly different which leads to pressure differences, but I've never noticed a difference. I don't make a habit of firing 5.56 in .223, but it's never been an issue for me.
here here
Now this is what my personal experiences have been .
Truth. I was taught in the military 35yrs ago that the rounds were completely interchangeable in either barrel.
As a handloader, my AR is stamped 5.56 so I load everything to 5.56 specs. As far as the leade goes, anyone loading ammunition should know that bullet seating depth insures that there is enough leade to allow the bullet to start moving so peak pressure is lower when the bullet enters the rifling, no excessive pressure. A round without enough leade will cause signs of excessive pressure, blown primers, etc. Military ammo varies with the type of bullet. A tracer, with an ogive differing from ball ammo may fit great in a 5.56 chamber but go too far into the leade in a .223 chamber, causing excessive pressure. Not an absolute, but it is a possibility. Good video explaining that the great difference between the two rounds is really in the chamber, not the case.
The difference is the case. Military brass is thicker, because they have to use them if fully automatic weapons that have a nasty habit of tearing the heads off the cartridge cases. So the military brass has a slightly smaller case capacity. If you load both with the same charge and bullets, the military brass will develop higher pressure since the same volume of gas is being generated in a smaller space.
UNITED POLICE STATES OF AMERICA look another RUclips punk bull shitter giving reloading advice from playing fucked up video war games.
What you wrote tells every experienced shooter and reloaded that you never touched a real gun you're life.
Rara, I have been shooting for 40+ of those 13 years and reloading for over 30 years. Plus 14 years in the Marine Corps shooting the M-16A1 and A2. I will assume that if you have nothing to say except to try to insult someone you don't know, then you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation. Some reasons for pressure can be not enough leade, to much crimp on a bullet case mouth, too much powder, an obstruction in the bore, and many others. Pick up a reloading manual and read, there are different min and max dimensions for loading ammo. If there isn't enough room for the bullet to move forward prior to being swaged into the rifling, it will result in high pressure. Sometimes enough to blow up the gun.
Wylde chambered will safely accept either ammo without issue. 👍
Guys I have a bolt gun (Savage Axis) in 223. On occasion I have shot 5.56 that was intended for my ARs mostly by mistake. Do you feel the pressure increase was significant enough to cause a problem? I'd once heard that modern bolt actions could easily handle the overpressure and didn't think much of it but now I wonder if that's incorrect.
It may handle it for a while. However, because of the lack of “head space” where tip of bullet enters bore in a 223 chambered rifle, the 5:56 round will eventually start to ware on the chamber entrance. This will over time contribute to double feeds and poor brass ejection.
Sorry Big Mac. I see you have a bolt action. The brass ejection part doesn’t apply to you.
@@michaelpetty8416Thanks
I've seen what 5.56 does to the chest of a human body first hand, tiny hole and massive internal damage, due to hydra-shock, small exit wound. Resume: Disabled combat veteran, 2003 Iraq, Najaf, Karbala, Baghdad and Fallujah.
I have an ar, its well used.. but I am concerned with the many stories of "skinnies" and I use that word because it allows for what I've heard can happen.. with less tissue to pass through the bullets can go right through without the use of hp rounds as NATO demands. So the round can go straight through a thinner person and keep going without massive damage. Lots of stories have come out with enemies being struck multiple times in center mass and they walk away.. not exactly ideal in combat.. lots of times there's just a straight .22 hole pass through without significant damage.
yes but 223 goes in tumbeling and dont always come out that can cause all kinda problems !
roger buss III if I read correctly that's because they were using the armor peircing green tips, which would work better against Armor obviously. And also I read another story about it in Afghanistan where the green tips combined with terrorists being hopped up on heroine, made the bullet seem useless. Not sure though.
@@iamtj111 Green tip is not an armor piercing round. And even if they were, the terminal ballistics of the 556 round are good, going straight through a target and the target still fighting had less to do with its terminal ballistics and more to do with the fact that alot of enemy combatants were hyped up on all sorts of drugs.. pcp.. lsd.. you have it, there were bad guys on it. That's why we started training failure drills, the infamous 2 to the chest, one to the head.
Would these doped-up dudes keep coming at you if you plugged them with a 30-06 round from an M-1?
I love the way you call your videos, "stories." It sounds more accurate and pleasing than "articles" or "videos." :)
Quite the detailed vid. Thank you.
I’m very fortunate as my Springfield Armory Saint cycles both .223 and 5.56. When at the range, I train with .223 as the cartridges are cheaper than 5.56. My go bag mags are loaded with Hornady Black 5.56 62gr FMJ.😎
Thank you SO much for an incredibly informative video on this contested subject! One of my rifles is an older Ruger Mini-14 and I would never dream of loading 5.56 simply because .223 is stamped on the gun. I'm just getting into reloading and you've provided a wealth of information as well as a solid foundation from which to explore. Thank you sir! Safe shooting and have a fantastic day!
Ruger has stated that all their minis with the exception of the Target models can shoot either
I bought a new Ruger Mini 14 in 1982 I still have the gun and owners manual that came with it. The receiver is stamped Cal .223. The owners manual clearly states that either 5.56 NATO or Remington .223 can be safely fired in the Mini 14. Ruger should know!!!
It’s my understanding that Ruger marked early Mini 14 receivers .223 Remington only because there was no SAAMI standard for 5.56 NATO, but all of them have 5.56 NATO chamber dimensions (except the Target model as mentioned). So I think you can fire 5.56 safely from any Ranch model. But then, not much difference in cost of ammo and never hurts to err on the side of safety.
@@WesB1972 Thanks for the info. I lost my original owner's manual, but purchased mine in the early 2000's so I assume the same applies.
Thanks for the review. So much to learn, this was another piece of the pie. From someone who is old school thinking 30-06 in my M1 Garand was minimal stopping power
My rifle has a Wylde chamber. I can use either, and frequently do, with no issues. I confirmed this with Smith & Wesson.
Does your POI change much between rounds?
@@2ndAveScents Not at 200+ yards, and only about 1/8 of an inch at 100 yards.
@@dragunovbushcraft152 interesting, thanks for the feedback
@@2ndAveScents Yer welcome. :)
When I went shopping for an inexpensive AR-15, I wanted one that shot both rounds. The _'Anderson AM-15'_ is marked on the barrel. _'Multi caliber',_ meaning it shoots both.
Lesson learnt:
Use the specified ammo whenever you can (find, afford, etc...)
I am a Range Safety Officer in a 4,000 member club. I was watching a member trying to hammer a cartridge into his AR15. I took it away from him because I expected an out of battery incidend. When I checked the barrel is was a 223 chamber and the dealer had sold him 556 ammo telling him if was the same. The case was a quarter inch out of the chamber and would NOT go further. None of the rounds he had would chamber. I am told the 556 chambers are more tolerant of size variance whereas a 223 chamber is NOT. Basic rule of thumb is "shoot the cal printed on your barrel". Simple rule that will keep you save. Similar yes, and you can shoot 223 in a 556 chamber but NOT the other way around. Stay safe and follow the rules. A receiver blowing off the top of your firearm might leave you damaged.
Thats basically all you need to know. If you have .223 rem on barrel, you can take the chance of blowing your face off w/ a 5.56, if it fits, and if you have a 5.56 on the barrel, you can, (I currently am) use .223 Remington. But good, ish, almost, video. And no, OP- I won't wait to watch vid to post, how errogant to even post that on yr own vid then pin at top. Who hangs out to chat after video ends on such an over explained boring video.
I had always believed. 223 Remington was 5.56 with the same casing and projectile but a smaller powder load, good to know I was flat out wrong 😂
Actually if you look at load data for the two. The 5.56 does have a bit larger powder charge than the 223.
Such as Accurate 2230 for the 62 gr m855 in 223 calls for 21.4 to 23.8gr of powder. The same powder charge, same bullet in the 5.56 calls for 22.8 to 25.3gr of powder.
Daniel Myers-Cowan that effects material cost in manufacturing asa whole smaller load less casing material , had they just did one case size they would essentially being throwing money away
Yeah this is not like the case of .38 Special vs .357 Magnum or .44 Special vs .44 Magnum where they made it slightly longer so you could load magnum into a non-magnum chamber, right from the start on that cutaway you can see differences in the thickness of the rim and dimensions of the primer pocket.
Glad you still have all your fingers!!
Probably the best most informative information on this topic, short and sweet, thank you.
This has to be the most comprehensive discussion on the debate. Thank you so much.