Mechanicals on ELK... Should You? Let's have a discussion...
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- MECHANICALS ON ELK... Should You?
Behind the scenes at the Elk Immersion Experience - Dan and Wild Bill are discussing archery shots on elk, broadhead selection and recovery protocols to a group of newer archery elk hunters.
Wild Bill is 72 years young and has arrowed 50+ elk with a bow!
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I ve killed 5 elk with the dead meat mechanical broadhead. 430 grain arrow and a 70lb draw. 25 yards to 72 great blood trails. If it isnt broke dont fix it. Ive tinkered and gone down many rabbit holes with archery gear and spent alot of money. Shot placement, confidence, practice and patience.
In 2019 myself and my BIL shared elk camp with Bill. Not only was he a super nice guy but full of elk hunting knowledge. We were newbies, only our second DIY elk hunt. Bill helped us out and was super cool. Bill ended up killing an elk that week and we got the opportunity to help him pack it out. I'm pretty sure the elk he killed was at the top of the mountain we were hunting and he climbed it like he lived there. We were 1/2 his age and couldn't keep up. Not sure if he remembers us, but we still talk about that week. Hope you're well Bill!
Lungs are not ballon’s they do not pop. So many people think if you just barley cut a lung it pops nothing even close. Please stop using a ballon as a lung reference.
When I was a teenager I developed a condition where I had small holes in my lungs called blebs that would cause my lungs to collapse. Eventually I had about half of my left lung removed. I learned a lot about how the lungs work during that time and it makes me laugh when I hear some of the stuff the experts say when talking about shooting animals through the lungs.
I’m not a vet or a doctor so maybe there’s something different about an elk’s respiratory system vs a human’s, but anyone who’s taken a first aid course knows that if someone has a penetrating wound in the chest cavity they are in real big trouble. If air gets into the otherwise sealed “compartment” that houses the lungs, then the diaphragm can’t operate properly, more air will get sucked into the cavity every time you breather, and eventually you’ll suffocate and die.
There’s so many stories of elk getting away with one lung hit that I can’t just discount them but I don’t understand how that’s physically possible
@@ratherbefishing4225 the word your looking for is Pneumothorax. There’s many different types not all are fatal there is a lot of variables. I just had a conversation with my RN sister with many years in the ER waiting for this comment. It’s definitely not a good thing but not simply having a hole into the chest cavity isn’t always gonna kill the animal. It can cause only parts of the lung to collapse and lungs have many lobes. So in theory you could have 30% Pneumothorax and have up to 70% lung function in that lung. Maybe later if I care enough I’ll get her direct quote. My main point is lungs don’t simply pop due to the smallest cut or hole and can collapse but a ballon is a terrible way to describe how it actually works.
@@daltonbbf756 that makes sense and you’re right they’re definitely not balloons.
It is a figure of speech. We all know they are not balloons. Not to be taken littery.
This is probably my first comment on anyone’s video. This topic definitely deserves the support, we are a niche archery community “Elk Bow Hunters” and should not be divided on this subject. We all have our Broadhead preferences and mine happens to fall right in line with Dans, maybe not the exact brands but in philosophy. If someone else chooses differently fine I just hope they have put thought into their choice. Together we are stronger.
I feel the same as you - I don't care what others shoot - I just want them to be thoughtful about it and not just screw any head onto an arrow or take any shot angle at any distance. The game losses in archery reflect on all of us, so I want everyone to think through their choices. You make a great point about solidarity among the community.
Its all about views and also our mass media has done a good job on dividing everyone on everything..@richarddean3154
Dan, IMO this is one of your most valuable vids. As an IW fanboy, I didn’t need to be convinced. I will adopt the idea of carrying one SEVR Titanium for follow ups. As a fellow septuagenarian, my hat’s off to “Bill” too. Thanks.
I hope to be half as healthy as bill at that age!!!! Wow absolutely phenomenal! Great video!
This! It was amazing to be in a group with him and to watch how he was still learning and developing his skills. He talked about tactics and technology tools he was learning about and using that some 30 year olds refuse to take the time to learn. If I can be half as open to learning and growth at 78, I consider that a win!
I’ve never shot an elk and probably never will but I’ve shot a pile of whitetail. I’ve used allot of different broadheads. I’ve never had a fixed fail on me. I have had mechanicals fail. You are definitely correct in your assumption of tuning being key. On my elk hunts I’ve always shot fixed. If it can go wrong it probably will is how I see it with mechanicals. Great video Dan. It doesn’t just apply to elk. It applies to all animals. Peace.
interesting. Shot placement should be priority. Plenty of game has been taken with mechanical heads. IronWill Bill was just on Kifarucast with Aaron and acknowledged the benefits of mechanical. This isn't the late 90's early 00's, technology has advanced since then.
Animals move. You’re not as good as think you are
@@bigz5262 animals move, you’re range isn’t what you think it is with a fixed head and a poorly tuned arrow ✌🏻
@@Chriis_Perry16 if you knew how to tune a bow you wouldn’t need a mechanical
nope. Laziness pure and simple.
@@Chriis_Perry16If you’re a responsible hunter, you’re range will be the same regardless of head
Great video Dan. Straight up no BS no script. Just plain raw and to the point.
If beast broadheads are dropping Cape buffalo and giraffes I think they are good for elk. Shot placement over everything however.
At 70+ yards as well pretty insane if you ask me
You only saw the one when it worked.
Sam Davis, Aaron snider, brian barney, and levi Morgan are guys that use mechanicals on pretty much everything.
Shot placement is key. I think its important to shoot what gives you confidence.
One thing to consider - have you shot bows with any of those individuals? I have. They are nowhere near average so take that into consideration please! Thanks for watching! -DS
@@ElkShape I've shot with both Sam & Brian. They are great shooters. I've also shot with Lampers, Gritty, Brad Hunt & a few other recognizable names. Honest questions, if the performance of the broadhead doesn't change does the shooter really matter (regardless of fixed or mechanical)? Why should someone take into consideration who the shooter is when deciding between a fixed or mechanical?
Not trying to be a hater or keyboard Karen. I watch & appreciate all your content. Truly curious why you think it matters?
@@ElkShape I guess my big question is this. If the best of the best won't settle with anything less than the best why do these individuals choose mechs? I'm sure that they could shoot anything they want and can shoot fixed broadheads just as well as anyone.
I am very precious minded and like mechs because they are more forgiving in technical shooting situations. But with that being said I will be using fixed broadheads for elk this year.
Thanks for the video and good luck this season! 😁
@@jackbuendgen389 they choose mechanicals because they are paid to. The stuff these influencers say isn’t gospel
@@bigz5262 just like how ranch fairy, iron will bill, and the hunting public push heavy arrows and fixed blade broadheads!
Let's be honest though. All of those guys I mentioned in my original comment, and this reply all LOVE bowhunting and choose the equipment they believe will bring them success.
You've 100% convinced me on NOT using mechanicals. Was on edge but the MANY whitetail vids with HALF the arrow sticking outwith mechs had me 90% there to fixed blades. Been researching fixed for 3 weeks now. Other advise is DAMN GOOD too!
Killed a 6x6 bull in Montana in 2022. Rage Trypan, 540 grain 5mm fmj, 72#. Frontal at 22 yards, buried to the fletch, went 50 yards and fell over. Mechanicals work fine if you make good shots. You miss with a fixed results are the same as missing with a mechanical. I choose them for the cutting diameter and long range accuracy. 2 days later, watched my buddy kill his 6x6 with the exact same setup but 500 grain arrow and the arrow flew to infinity after going all the way through.
Iron will single bevels will always be my go to. I touch them up right out of the package and get them razor sharp with buffing compound. Nothing compares imo.
My iron wills are surgically sharp I buff wheel the lot mirror polished I’m a knife maker so I’m OCD sharpening
Are they harder to sharpen because they are harder material?@@stanlong-rangepensionerman3363
This video, to me, was very informative! I’ve never shot an elk with a bow so I have zero experience but to see an unscripted conversation between two guys that have been very successful was great to watch!
Had 1 bad experience with a rage broadhead. Switched to fixed blades with a 480 grain arrow setup. I’ve had nothing but pass throughs & dead animals ever since.
Best broadhead discussion I heard in a long time. Get Bill on more video’s!!! Nice job Dan….good information.
Finding Backcountry podcast - Jeremy Duggar did the data collection, and has the details.
As for myself, I have shot several elk using both style of head, and have had great success with both. In the end, it always comes down to shot selection and placement. I will say, if you didn't kill a bull with a certain type of broadhead and weren't able to autopsy it, you MISSED what you were shooting at. Period.
It doesn’t matter how good you are if the animal moves
@@bigz5262 That could be said of any archery setup... but being accurate on the ones they don't move on, and having a larger trauma path through the animal can lead to recovery, or a faster recovery in the event of missing the "spot" or misjudging the angle of the animal.
Wow probably the best video you have ever posted
outstanding video. the fact you didn't know it was being recorded just makes it that much more authentic.
Awesome Information for the season. Thankyou
I’m gone play devils advocate Dan.
I’m not following the concept and of a mech being good for a follow up shot but not the first shot?
It’s like oh my fixed blade didn’t kill it, let me grab the mechanical that I just gave all these reasons to not shoot and kill it.
So the bull you described that live for 50’ish minutes. I would think that a 2”mech would have done more damage and died faster. I just think everything is situational and we can’t put blanket over it and say only 1 is good to use. Food for thought.
I thought the same thing but rationalized it this way,,, post first shot, improper form due to excitement and a HR of 170, add in added distance, the mech has better chance of hitting its target.
I wouldn’t use one but that’s likely the rationale
@@ryanderlago I can see your point but in your scenario wouldn’t the mech make the most sense under your parameters?
I’ve shot severs the past few years and don’t see a weakness to them. And the Beast looks to be even better. For me personally some of these mech heads are making fixed blades with small cutting diameters seem primitive.
@@deanbrantley can’t see how arrows going completely through an animal is primitive. That said, if I had a 30” draw and shot 80 pounds with a 500 grain arrow pushing 300fps then by all means I’d shoot an expandable. That’s just not reality for most hunters.
Elk or moose size animals are a whole different target to shoot through vs most game hunters pursue. Use what you’re confident with and live with the results. For me, game pushing 1000 pounds only get fixed blades shot at them,,, especially with my 66 pounds at 28”.
Fixed blade is best for the first shot because it gives you the best penetration and chance of a lethal hit. Once it is hit, it’s all about getting more arrows in it for a faster death. Even if it doesn’t get as much penetration, like just one lung, it’s still more bleeding. You don’t want one lung or under penetration as your first and possibly only shot.
@@D_Boone i get putting more arrows in it for sure. But the point that im missing is why not have a quiver full of fixed blades then? Dan has vids of 90-100 yard shots with a fixed blade. So a follow up shot shouldnt be to hard. Im just not seeing how wounding it to death with a mechanical after the fixed blade didnt hit its mark. Its an endless debate i know.
That was great . That gent had some experience for sure .
I personally think that shot placement is number one before choosing broadheads. More people need to practice with their equipment and take ethical shots. Be the absolute best that you can be to ensure you can ethically take that game. Yes, things do happen, but the more you perfect your craft, the less likely you are to make a bad shot. Never in a million years would I take a frontal shot on any animal period with a bow. But that's just me. I know a ton of hunters in my area don't even start practicing until September when season comes in in October when I've never stopped practicing from the following year. Regardless of what broadhead you are using, if it's a bad shot, then it's a bad shot. You may not find. Especially when shooting a fixed blade, you don't get the large cutting hole and much less blood. If you're using a mechanical however, you will get much better blood resulting in a higher chance to not only find the animal, but also the odds of them bleeding out are much, much higher. And yes, I'm using a mechanical Sevr Hybrid. I'm not speaking negatively of fixed blade broadheads by any means either. If I were to ever shoot fixed, it probably would be the Iron Wills as those things are just devastating.
Yet you can’t guarantee shot placement making fixed blades superior
@HSeaward3 there is no factual data showing one better than other. And yes, you can guarantee shot placement if we as hunters do what we're supposed to. Take ethical shots, and practice, practice, practice. You're more likely to make a bad shot with fixed blades than mechanicals, especially as most people using fixed blades don't actually take the time to tune and shoot for fixed blades. They shoot field points and then throw on a fixed blade expecting it to shoot the same and then make a bad shot because of accuracy problems out of fixed blades.
Totally agree with you - you have to put the arrow where it belongs. I shoot so much in the spring and summer that my neck starts to hurt. But when I am hunting, I don't have to think about the shot process and can concentrate on the "hunting aspects" of the encounter - range, body angle, clear lane. This has eliminated my mistakes and calmed me down "in the moment". Great point about being the best you can be.
@richarddean3154 absolutely buddy. You make a very good additional point with the calming you down in the moment. That part is so hard to do but oh so important.
@@user-nx8kk9no3x the problem is one is actually better than the other, if one has a way of failing or not deploying while the other doesent how could you not say one is superior? A fixed blade will never not deploy, so granted you tune your bow for what broadhead your shooting, and its sharp, mechanicals can never be as reliable it’s just facts
Thank you for your honesty! Gained a lot of respect for you off this one. My husband shot a bull last year with a popular Hybrid broadhead. The arrow went in perfect double lung and hit a rib on the other side. The broadhead broke off at the Ferrell. We recovered the bull but learned our lesson. Fixed blade for Bulls.
I agree with alot of comments on here and also with my own experience sometimes we believe our shot is perfect when alot of times its not but hearing the older gentleman and others in general say oh i hit them perfect in the boiler room with a mechanical and they still survived. All that is bs. No matter what broadhead fixed, mechanical, or even a fieldpoint hits both lungs of any animal it will be dead in minutes impossible to survive.
"Right through the lungs" and saw it three weeks later. I'm sure that's all true...
I agree if you hit something in the lungs it’s going to die. There’s no way it’s still living three weeks later if you hit him in the boiler room or lungs!
When you first hand see the will of an elk to survive, it will humble you... I'm glad that hasn't happened to you yet.
@@burrito4x4 I hear you but no matter what it is you hit something’s in the lungs or the boiler room they are going to die they don’t heal up.
@@burrito4x4 the will of an elk to live doesn’t beat animal physiology
This was a good discussion. I have harvested 17 elk with archery equipment including the dreaded frontal. I think I have also screwed up every way possible. The best shots are when the elk are not aware that you are there and stop moving on their own. The next best is to stop them with a call or noise. If they are quartered to you (hard to tell sometimes), just wait, they will turn and you can stop them for a much higher percentage shot. Do not try a frontal over 15 yards, they can and will jump the shot and almost always duck their head while turning. I know a lot of guys that are call shy when the bull gets close and afraid to stop the elk (I used to be), don't worry just do it and then don't rush the shot.
Thank you for this. Would love to see an interview with Bill. What's his fitness regimen? Hunting tips, etc. Thank you!
This year is my first archery hunt. Glad I got quality fixed broadheads. Can't wait!
It’s my opinion that when the arrow stays in the animal it keeps all the holes lined up so more blood comes out. Once they start running the hide and muscle lungs etc shift. I just want to state I’ve never hunted elk but the idea works across all animals. I’m also not say 6” of penetration either but up to the vanes and it stops or hits the offside shoulder, I’m not upset about it.
Thanks for this video, I've been hunting for 6 years and haven't killed an elk, yet. This video was very helpful. I have annihilator broadheads and feel confident with them. I feel like my self as an amateur need to remove as much variables as I can. Same reason I trust a whisker biscuit. Just fewer moving parts. As I hope to find success this year I am finding the most comfort and confidence with keeping things simple.
Get Bill on the podcast. Seems like a super humble guy with a ton of experience
A lot of good info as always. I dont have the experience that these guys have but i have learned a ton from my own experiences and ive been on 4 archery hunts that brought an elk down and one more that didnt.
I have always thought of shot placement and being accurate is always key. And it is but the one elk that got away from me was a huge learning moment for me. Called in a spike bull had him broadside at 30 shot him top of the heart but right away knew i was in trouble. No penetration. Was using a slick trick 29 draw as 70lbs. It was raining and we were able to track him to the tree line but lost it in the rain. Did see him later in the day but ran off and never saw him again. Did everthing right but in the following months of conversation realized how important it is to have a sharp broadhead. Never thought of it, i even killed an antelope so not thought much of it. Since then ive killed 3 bulls all with the slick tricks. Shape slick tricks.
The only bull out of these that wasnt my kill was one where i was using mechanicals. A friend and i were out and my friend arrowed a bull. We were separate but i saw the shot through the binos on the exit side of the bull. He saw unrealized to him a quartering to him shot. Got single lung and liver. I learned that day that at least in our area a wounded elk will find the denses cover and bed down. We gave him 4 hours tracked him and i found him alive looking at me bedded down. I figured he is alive if i can get more arrows in him even though not ideal it is just gonna slow him down more. So i figured i could get a single lung frontal shot. Shot once he didnt move. Shot him again he didnt move. And i thought on both shots that i missed cause the brush was opening the blades. So the last arrow i moved two steps over to see his throat and figured i put one in his wind pipe. Shot him hear the loudest thunk and get stood up with 3 arrows in him took one step and died. Hit him ever time. With the front shots it was to much for the mechinals but they did get 2 into the lungs as they broke.
Slick tricks have worked well for me but always looking for better field point accuracy. Tempted to try the shackwer. But i will always fall back on the slick tricks
I have been on two elk hunts in my 32 years of bowhunting. I was not successful on my first hunt in 2017. 3 years later I killed a 5x6 in Colorado. I was pulling 70lbs, my arrow weight 500grains and I was using the QAD Exodus broadhead. The bull came in to a water hole and was slightly quartering away, my first shot glanced of a rib bone and cut the hide right behind the shoulder. I looked up and the elk was standing 39 yards away facing me, I took the second shot and my arrowed went completely through the bull. We found him 80 yards from the second shot. I believe shot placement is key on any animal! I have used mechanical broadheads since the late 90's that was the first time using a fixed blade since I killed my first whitetail when I was 12.
Spot on Dan and bill. If a guy like Bodie, shoots 12s can use whatever he pleases. I'm using the Qad exodus for my elk set up. Also it takes guts to share a horror story like that. Hunters never want an animal to suffer. Keep up the great knowledge and info. Enjoy all your videos
Whatever it is make sure it's sharp! I've been through a lot of changes on my archery elk hunting journey. I started with fixed blades and lost a bull, looked and seemed like a good shot. With time I got into tuning my bow once I learned it could be but had a hard time getting it tuned well and then had a hard time getting fixed blades to fly with my field points so I switched to a mechanicals, never got a shot on a bull with it but I did learn to tune my bow and I have now switched back to fixed blades for elk. Each year I've learned more and found more things I can do to increase my odds of getting what I hit. One of those things has been sharpening the broadheads straight out of the package and check them regularly because riding in the quiver and in and out can dull them. Get them sharp! If they're sharp already, get them sharper. You can pretty much always improve them, even if it's already sharp and you run a leather strop on them to get them scary sharp.
You preach the truth!!
I tried the old school Rocky Mountain broadheads. Great expandable broadheads!! Wish I could get them
Today. However rage bought them out:(.
I am now shooting tooth of the arrow 4 blade. So accurate with my bow!! Shot an elk at 80 yards as well
As a javalina at 20!!!!
Shot placement is key with any broadheads but I agree. Fixed is best.
So I’ve personally lost a deer and and elk in the same year to an expandable broadheads
Please help to push the naritave.
Watched your you tube channel for quite a while. Bought some
Crispi Colorado boots because
Of your review!!!
Keep it up and continue to speak the truth!!!
Very Dynamic subject, but great that its discussed openly . Less screws and moving parts for piece of mind, made from 1 piece fixed and shot placement is what gives me my shot placement. Like the Nomad Broadheads.
Phenomenal video brother
Great discussion, this is a topic that will be debated heavily for a long time. Some of the best hunters and archers swear by mechanicals. To be up front I have used both fixed and mechanicals and have both great success and disappointing failures with both. Both will be in my quiver for the elk woods this year. If accuracy and forgiveness is your top priority, nothing will be more accurate than a mechanical. If penetration is your top priority a fixed blade will be your choice. In both cases shot placement is the key. Definitely important things for each hunter to think about. Most importantly what ever you choose, you had better have the utmost confidence in the business end of your arrows.
I've shot both, i think shot placement and situation is the key. However, yes, fixed blades are the most forgiving in the heat of the moment and give you the best odds when accounting all the variables. I carry three fixed and two expandable in my quiver. Much like the shot process, you need to be aware of what's happening in the moment, and your quiver to rest, arrow selection is as important as staying engaged and remembering to look through the peep, level and follow through!
Outstanding group discussion! Thanks for sharing this, Dan!
Through 6yrs of R&D on our heads with most of our test subjects being wild hogs, shot placement is always key. That said I took what would be considered “unethical” shots on several with our fixed and mechanical on some of these hogs. Another conclusion found, have a well built head. Preferably steel or Ti ferrule.
Rear deploy mech style always outperformed over the top for us.
In fixed a single bevel with a 1.25-1.5” cut was always superior. (Lots of small details in all of this too)
Last year I shot my bull at 35yds, 70lb bow, 450g arrow and our smaller mechanical head (1.65” cd) and hit a rib going in and out with a complete pass through.
As stated earlier though, shot placement is key. I have some awesome video of what happened to a Tule Elk with a frontal shot this July.
Grim reapers and annialators for me. I blew right through a bull at 88 yds, no problem with a GR hybrid perfectly placed shot. Blew through a oryx at 63 yds with the annialator,perfect shot placement and at this moment Ive learned is that it doesn’t matter I couldn’t recover either animal. Call it unethical but I spent days looking for both. Do I feel bad , of course
Lungs are adhered to the chest wall completely. There is no area unattached.
Literally had some mechanicals in my cart but this video convinced me to stay with fixed blade.
Great content. Agree with pretty much everything. Did mechanicals once. That was one and done. Fixed broadheads for sure. I poked needles in lungs all the time. The lungs do fill the chest cavity whether in inspiration or expiration. It always fills its chamber. Unless you poke it. Even small holes can collapse a lung. Can’t imagine many scenarios where an arrow does not collapse the lung. Certainly a one lunged elk can survive. Have experienced that. Thank you!
Great video i always have the internal debate with myself even on whitetail and usually end up with fixed just to ease my nerves
One hell of a knowledge bomb.
Thanks for the information Dan!
2 blade broadheads have been around for thousands of years stone points now we have so many choices I use 150 gr stinger 2 blades pass through every single time shoot what you want I believe shot placement is key keep’em close odds of failure decrease
Great video! Back to classic Elkshape, just talking elk and good tactics.
This applies to all bow hunting not just elk great information here
It's really simple imho... fixed broadheads are plan A and they are the best option for an individual striving to give an old warrior a fast exit.
It’s crazy how much variation and conflicting opinions there are on this subject. Even among the pros. You got guys like Dan and Remi who swear by only fixed, and have a ton of elk kills. Then you have guys like Dan Pickar, Sam Davis, and Brian Barney who also have a pile of dead elk and swear by the mechanical… I hear the arguments and can honestly see it both ways. I’ve never shot a mechanical on elk, but I’m definitely leaning that way. This year I’ll have QAD exodus and IW standard in my quiver for 0-50 yards. Anything over that will be follow up shots with the evolution outdoors Hyde. 460gr and 290fps. Good luck to everyone out there hunting elk this year 🤙🤙
Definitely a fan of the hybrid Evolution Outdoors HYDE... I also like that it is modular and can be built as a JEKYLL fixed blade as well.
Very factual based video! I do like how the end to these discussions are always to each their own. Pros and cons to both fixed and mechanicals, so many variables to consider in elk hunting. Never a right or wrong answer.
Hey man, GREAT Video. I am mainly a whitetail hunter in the south. However, I've hunted and killed Elk in Colorado and Idaho. I've been trying to explain the dynamics of fixed blades compared to mechanicals for years to people and most are hard headed. I will not shoot a mechanical under any circumstances even on a whitetail. I lost an Elk with a cut on impact broadhead and you're right, It's not fun at all. It wasn't the broadhead. It was me. I think that I hit one lung because I had frothy blood a couple of times but we never recovered him. It hurt me. That was my first shot at an Elk with a bow. Thank You for your effort in getting info out to us. Good Hunting. Mike
One thing that I didn’t see discussed that is extremely important is the quality of the steel in the broadheads. A huge majority of mechanicals and quite a few fixed blades have poor quality steel. They bend or break and they don’t stay sharp. A good broadhead has to be super durable and stay sharp after impact. It doesn’t matter how sharp you think it is in your quiver. It matters how sharp it is when it enters the vitals.
A popular sentiment is, "shot placement is key." I agree with that, I think we all do, so that's why I shoot mechanicals. They shoot better. Of course you can make fixed fly as straight as a field point... maybe. But you gotta do a ton of work to get there and 99% of archers just don't. But that'll all be out the window as soon as the wind blows. A stiff wind effects fixed blades vastly different. I learned this while the wind was blowing one night and I decided to see how wind effected my broadheads. I couldn't believe it. I was missing by 2 feet from 30 yards. I switched to mechanicals because they fly just like field points and have killed elk, moose, deer, antelope, and turkeys. I've never had a failure, I miss WAY, WAY fewer animals than before I switched and I've never lost an animal I hit since switching. (I lost 2 deer and an antelope with fixed blades). Everything I shoot dies much faster. It's just a no-brainer. I started with rage, but I switched to shwacker pretty quickly because they cut through a groundblind screen without opening and of course, they're just the best.
I'm excited to hear this discussion! I'm trying it for the first time this year (on deer first) because my pin seems to sit really heavy on the high lung on every critter I've harvested.. it is unconscious!
I have yet to experience a decent blood trail, but always practice everything you preach so shot placement has been ZERO question!! 😎
I loved that. Thanks to the guy who recorded it and thanks for posting it. It’s a very well timed video for me right now because I have always used fixed blade heads, and I’m going to carry both in my quiver this year. The mech I settled on is the SEVR 1.5 hybrid, and only that one because (1) it has a non aluminum ferrule, (2) it has a fixed blade in it, and (3) the 1.5” diameter is only slightly larger than most fixed blades.
Glad you enjoyed it! -DS
I’ve struggled with trying to tune fixed heads, and decided last year that it was more important to hit what I was aiming at than to have the optimal cutting head.
Got a double lung broadside hit on a mature bull at 12 yards and he crashed within 100 yards, completely bled out. It was a 100 gr 2” Schwacker out of a 70 lb 29” bow doing almost 300 fps and the head poked a hole on the off side but didn’t fully come out.
My only experience with fixed heads on an elk was digging one out of a backstrap on a rifle-killed bull that my buddy put there 2 seasons before. Bull was 100% healthy.
This season I plan to use a fixed head that seems to finally be shooting well. More years will teach me more hopefully
I think this is the struggle with fixed heads: getting them to shoot as accurately as, say, a Sevr or pick any extremely accurate mechanical. I know many can get the fixed heads to fly accurately but many of us cannot, which leads to some doubt and a decrease in confidence. If I knew I could get my Iron Will to shoot like my Sevr hybrid or Deadmeat I'd without a doubt shoot it. But first you've got to hit the vitals and the top mechanicals are better at doing that - for most of us.
Thanks for the video.
@@toddzoro9831 my 1.5 Sevrs shoot better than my field points. Put them on a heavier arrow setup and they are lethal. Most of the mechanical haters out there don't shoot the heavier arrow with quality components
You should have Bill on the podcast.
Ageed! -DS
Many people pick fixed blade broadheads and think they're good to go, but some are not very sharp. Sharp broadheads are extremely important to get a good blood trail
Great content Dan! I agree completely on the mechanicals for Elk. I do have a different opinion on the frontal shot. Been on too many of those blood trails that completely dried up to ever take one again. Only tried a frontal once and the arrow hit the edge of the sternal hole at 11 yards. It ran along the outside of the ribcage just under his hide and stuck in the back leg. I stopped him again at 35 yards and got a double lung is the only reason he died that day and not a couple days later from infection. I know frontals can and do work at times, but with how many I've seen not work I cant ever justify taking one again on an animal I respect so deeply. Now on a wolf, Ill take that shot if all I can see is a hind leg!
People will say shot placement is key. You hunt long enough you’re not always going to make a perfect shot.
This video is fantastic, these are the discussions hunters need to have, even if you step on someone’s toes.
I’m 💯 fixed. Iron Wills as well as Grim Reaper Micro Pro Hades 3 blades.
People say Iron Wills are expensive and can’t afford them. Well guess what most people have an expensive bad habit that could easily buy them a couple packs of Iron Wills. Smokers, how many packs of cigarettes equal a pack of Iron Wills? Drinkers, how much do you spend on alcohol in a month? You look at your spending habits and you will easily find a way to have enough for a couple packs of Iron Wills.
My advice if you haven’t hunted much, head to a state with lots of small game specially wild boars. Get experience with your setup, shooting and killing. It will help.
You want advice on gear look towards the veterans. They are the ones who have good experience and bad experiences with equipment. There’s a reason they use what they use. No worse feeling than equipment failure. When it comes to Don’t look towards your favourite tv host personality who has a paid sponsor to choose your gear list. I guarantee give it a couple years and they’ll have a new broadhead sponsor down the road.
Great Video Dan! Hopefully the very important information given will help me have success this hunting season.
Your shot placement isn’t always money because of the fixed broadhead. Accuracy is affected way more by torque induced by the hunter in high pressure shots shooting a fixed head than with a mechanical. There are way more variables that can affect accuracy with a fixed head than with a mechanical. Number one thing while hunting anything with a bow is accuracy and shot placement! You put the mechanical where you’re aiming and it will do its job.
I agree with you regarding torque - it can throw the arrow off its mark. I am lucky that I don't get super excited anymore when I hunt. I can put off the anxiety and excitement until after the game runs off. It sure has made shooting them properly a lot easier. You made a great point about torque and the impact pressure can have on a hunter.
@@toddwolfe1978 fixed blades have no issues with flight if your bow is actually tuned the way it should be. If you are only shooting mechanical Broadheads because you can't get fixed to fly straight, that's on you and your bow
@@alexlaskowski3650 lol smh. That’s not at all what I said but thanks for your 2 cents.
@@alexlaskowski3650 we all know a well tuned bow will shoot just about anything you shoot through it and group good on a sunny day in your backyard with no pressure. We’re talking about variables that affect accuracy such as wind, and hand torque in a high stress shot just to name a couple. Those are magnified when you shoot a fixed head, period. Which effects accuracy.
@@toddwolfe1978 a fixed blades broadhead will not make any difference in those situations. You can't blame user error on the broadhead. Wind doesn't really effect fixed blades more then it would mechanical. The biggest surface area on the arrow is the fletching anyway, so if wind pushes it it once again isn't the broadhead
Could you please have that old guy on a podcast!! It wuld be cool to here some of his hunting stories, I'm sure he has a bunch.
I follow along and I think this is my favorite video you've done.
Thanks for sharing, I’ll use this knowledge this year.
love to see someone so concerned with the animal!
This video is so damn informative years of hunting in 26 minutes
I have used all kinds of fixed blade broadheads over years of bowhunting and sharp cut-on-contact are my go-to broadhead of choice. Personally, don't trust mechanical in the case they fail. Hard enough to have everything work out perfectly for that prime shot opportunity to have the most important part of your equipment not perform correctly. Shot placement, proper arrow setup (FOC) and SHARP cut-on contact broadheads will never let you down. Just my two cents. Another great video, thank you!
Great conversation. I think the biggest takeaway is "experience." I've seen a lot of bulls taken with mechanicals, but all by very experienced hunters and archers. Hunters like Randy and Rusty Ulmer, who developed a devastating "Ulmer Edge"....aka gen 1 sever , had amazing success, but again, aren't the average Joe when it comes to elk hunting. Thanks for sharing.
Accuracy is always #1, always. Mechanicals are more accurate, the will fly the same as your field point if your bow is proper tune. Second, the firefighter was correct before Dan changed it, the fastest way to kill anything is by oxygen loss, not blood.
I’m from Australia and closet kind of deer we get are sambar, not as big but ranked just under elk for largest sized deer. I’ve been considering using a 4mm shaft with the “terra firma gladius”. I would love to see these guys give the broad head a test or get an opinion from someone who’s got more experience. Only been shooting for 7months and haven’t taken a shot at a live animal yet as I’ve really wanted to hone my accuracy at distances up to 60m (65yards) and get the stalking and tracking down packed.
2nd year hunting white tail only for now because of geographical location not having elk near by. Shot mechanical last year and was successful and decided this year I was going to a fixed blade to see the difference. Went micro hades 4 blade 125. GLTA! Thanks for the Info Dan!
Setting grim reapers and iron will wides for the Deer 🇦🇺 in Australia
My thoughts iron wills up to 30 yards ish grimrepers after that out 50 yards
The idea is nice for sure, Only problem is when the animal is coming In you don't have time to change arrows once they are past 30 yards. You have to trust what you knock for all distance.
Interesting discussion and thoughts. I think a good follow up discussion would be to listen to John Dudley’s Podcast with guest Dr. Peter Attia and they discuss arrow trauma and how the animal dies from a medical perspective.
Never used a mechanical in my life and don’t plan on changing… I’ve tracked many bulls that buddies shot with mechanical only to find that they got no penetration or the blades didn’t open… sure when they work they work well but I want something that works 100 percent of the time and is sharp ready to do work…
Good Lord. We're still talking about "the void" after all these years. The lungs are literally glued to the chest cavity. Breathing comes from contraction and relaxation of the diaphragm. The lungs don't create a void during exhalation. There is no void. There may be areas of the lungs that are less lethal for arrow placement. But there's still no void. In summary, there is no void. Nevertheless, you may wonder, is there a void? There is not. No void. None. In summary, there is no void. Finally, no void exists. Why? Because there's is no void. Any questions?
I liked how you summarized so many times.
@@Johnbobon are you sure? are you positive? Are you freaking serious? Backstrap?
@@Johnbobon I liked the post, humorous. But might want to adjust the lung terminology a smidge. lungs are not glued. A surfactant substance helps lubricate as lungs expand and contract freely expanding and contracting in contrast to diaphragm movement which creates the negative pressure and allows air to enter and expand lungs. Not sure about the void talk but lung expansion size vs depressed size are different. You can hit chest cavity and not hit a lung. Not easy with penetrating objects but can happen. Also, we can have tension pneumothorax, hemothorax filling chest cavity between chest wall and lung tissue causing pressure and “collapse” of one or both lungs (because the lungs are not glued to the chest wall. lol 😉) Single shot lung or a nick to a lung can take a while for a large animal for an elk to expire as the chest cavity pressure increases and lung is compressed under pressure.
Good video. I agree completely
If you hit to far back, you will wish you had a mechanical. If you hit bone you will wish you had fixed. Pros and cons to everything. I just cary fixed up front in my quiver with a mech or 2 if I need a long range followup shot
Have you ever tried the 125gr Zeus Broadhead, they have seemed pretty stout and durable when it comes to Large Big Game from Elk to water buffalo. It's what I feel the Beast was designed to be very similar to the Zeus Broadhead. Penetration with them are really good in my experience.
Great information, thanks for sharing! I can’t comment on this, I’ve never shot an elk, but i can tell you that my quiver will be full of annihilator broad heads. I have experience taking many white tails, and a few bear, yes mechanicals cut a big hole, but that slows the arrow, and there is always a question in the back of your mind, fixed blades, just are going to work, I’m at the point of my life that I want to take my equipment out of the equation. I just know it’s gonna work all I have to worry about is me, making the shot, I’m the weak link, i can control that.
3 fixed and 2 expandable in a 5 arrow quiver. All Valkyrie and SHARP
I have elk hunted for 25 years, & strive to keep my shots ethical & under 40 yards...prefer 25 yards. Broadside. You need to get pass through in both lungs. Elk have a thick hide & lots of heavy hair that absorbs the blood. Marginal hits happen. Been there a time or two. I use fix blades only. QAD Exodus has .040 blades. Iron Will would be another great choice. Agree that after the shot you take a deep breath & wait at least 45 minutes before tracking. Flag your position & the blood trail. I solo hunt, so you can't take every elk that comes in to your setup. Learn to engrain a shot cycle mantra. Mines the 3 C's. Stay Cool, Calm , & Collective....pick a spot. Absolutely enjoy elk hunting with a bow...its a tough hunt.
I shoot the QAD Exodus as well - great broadhead.
I agree with Dan on his points, my only question would be something along the lines of the Muzzy Trocar Hybrid. 2 fixed blades and 2 expandable blades, strictly thinking with my “but what about” brain on that one. I don’t shoot IW yet, just have not decided to buy once cry once. But some day!
Grimm Reaper pro tip 3 blade mechanical all day.
504gn arrow @ 284fps complete pass through on 2 young bulls
1 @ 19yds
and 1 @ 40 yds
I watched them drop with in 20yds both broad side behind the shoulder
Running grim reapers hades and beast 2.3” this yr!
I like the forgiveness of a solid mechanical head in fairness I have not shot an elk with anything but a fixed so I might find my plan will fail. I’m confident at 70 lbs 30.5 inch draw a 460 grain arrow and staying off the 10 ring looking for 8’s my Thrive 2 blade will be effective. But I tinker so I can learn I will have a fixed evolution in the quiver just in case why not have options for scenarios?
Thank you for this. Although it would be a dream to elk hunt. Could you possible do a quick video of similar content on whitetail hunting from a tree stand 🍻🍻
I haven’t read through all comments so I don’t know if the podcast was mentioned about the Jeremy Duggar data collection in his shop out of New Mexico. But as many others have stated it comes down to shot placement and shot selection first. No matter what head you choose to put on the end of your arrow. If you know where to aim and you hit the spot you are aiming at, you will get your animal. If you don’t hit your point of aim sure some broadheads perform better than others. Fixed heads can be steered off course easier than mechanicals. Just more surface area for wind to grab. Just science. I’ve only bowhunted with fixed heads my whole life and now about to try a mechanical due to accuracy and less wind drift. They’ve come a long way in design and performance. I feel personally and everybody is different, that I personally have more confidence hitting my point of aim with the mechanical. But don’t quote me on this but according to Jeremy Duggar’s data, out of 511 data points (with more points being mechanicals) fixed heads resulted in 23% wound rate vs mechanicals at 12% wound rate. Now we don’t know what shot angles were taken and how much practice these people have but it’s certainly eye opening to say the least. But we are all on one team. At the end of the day, put on a broadhead that you are most confident in shooting accurately and don’t take shots you know you can’t make. Good luck out there boys and girls.
Shot placement is key but i would highly recommend watching born and raised shoulder video (last month) top dog mechanical (sevr/shwacker/grimreaper) failed top dog two blade single bevel (iron will/grizzly stick) failed three blade with hardened tip were the only ones at 10yds to penetrate and the most realistic test i think you can do.
You explained the amount of energy required to push through - there is your answer. Check out some youtube videos in Africa even with Sevr - so many with questionable penetration on elk size animals. This is why so many PH's or game ranch's wont have mechanicals on farm.
I had the same experience as bill last year. 35 yards broadside, mechanical head, shot was forward and stuck in the offside shoulder. Absolutely crushed me to not find that bull.
@jakehollenbeck583 Are you saying you lost the bull because the arrow didn't penetrate through the offside shoulder?
@codysmith8042 I lost it because of subpar shot placement, and in my mind not getting the penetration I believe I could have gotten with a solid fixed head. Obviously there's no replacement for good shot placement. Could just be a one off circumstance but it wrecked my confidence for the rest of the year.
I would use Rocket Steelheads in a heartbeat, but no matter what, it's sharp blades and shot placement. When I switched to NAP Hellrazors I wasn't getting good blood trails until I sharpened them. They used to be scary sharp out of the package. The 2 inch cut mechanicals just dont seem like a good idea to me.
I love videos like this and the guys at elkshape keep it up! As someone who has never been elk hunting yet it makes me really think more on my set up.
I look at it as why would i spend that kind of money time and effort into something and not run the best option i could...a fixed blade... to give myself as much room for error as possible. I set up for elk bc i always want to be ready for when i get the opportunity and if it will kill an elk it will surely kill a deer
Wyoming is legal for dogs. Mom and wife are running tracking dogs this year to try and help hunters. Great video man ❤
That is awesome! 🙏
Love the content keep it up.
Question though, if you dont trust a mechanical as your 1st shot, why would you trust it at a 60yd follow up?
Rarely do you get a follow up shot - so that 1st one is gonna be with a Fixed - now - in the event you get a follow up, could be a triple digit distance shot and an additional hole could be helpful. In that event, given a long shot, that's where a expandable would come into the scenario based on long distance flight characteristics - apparently I didn't make that clear! Thanks for watching. -Dan
@@ElkShape i understand the flight characteristicts argument but if it wont deploy consistantly up vlose why would it work at distance with less speed and kinetic energy? I prefer your properly tuned fixed blade argument overall.
65 pounds bow 29 and a half inch draw prime bow shooting gold tip series 22 arrow weight is 366 and arrow speed is 319 with a spitfire max broadhead i shot my elk last year at 74 yards and my vanes was the only thing that didn’t blow through the other side