This SIMPLE CONCEPT is Why You Never Kill Elk
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2024
- Cliff dives into the concept of time management when it comes to hunting deer, elk and bears in the Western States, on public land. If you apply some discipline around the concepts in this video you will be more successful.
It's that simple.
#elk #archeryelk #elkhunting #muledeer #pursuitwithcliff
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Random thoughts from an idiot rookie:
- Two things I always tell myself, "You don't know this area until you glass it in the morning", and " Try to sleep where you glass".
- In the AM, I like to be setup before the first rays of gray light start showing over the eastern ridges, though family obligations don't always allow for it during summer, so I end up leaving at like 3 AM and still not make it in time.
- Afternoon "geezer naps" are the bomb!
- Thermal shifts, it puts a time limit, and it varies on time of year and location, but it's usually like clockwork in it's timing, and something to plan for.
- The sun/shadow line is another time limit, once that sun is overhead, everything changes.
- Being "in the bubble" is exhausting. So I try and ration it. The trick is knowing when you need to step it up and get into the bubble. I've blown an entire herd by bumping a single cow from 100 yards away. Though I was quiet, I was NOT in my bubble so the cow saw me before I saw her. That had repercussions the following day, cause all the elk were gone.
- Depending on hunting pressure, and how hot it is, elk are like a tide in the ocean. The tide comes in from private at night, and could go back out to private about 30 minutes after first light. I know this cause I could hear them at night. It also means the window of opportunity is SUPER narrow.
Personally, my BIGGEST fault, is not hunting the evening hours as much as I know I should. It's a conscious decision since i'm almost always solo. The rational is if I step into some shit in the dark in the morning hours, I know daylight is coming and I have all day to unfuck myself. In the evening, that isn't the case, though I will hunt the evening depending on the terrain, location, and elk activity. (IE risk management) I've had them come in on me in the evening, 5 minutes before shooting hours ends, and i was getting ready to pack it up. You just never know.
Tons of great, succinct tips here. Thanks. Pinned it to the top.
Hunt where elk are...rule #1 and #99
Funny, I've never had any luck in the morning. Every archery bull I've killed has been after 6:45pm. I hunt in the depths of a high pressure OTC unit though.
@@craigleonardjr Ive only had luck at night myself but it has always ended up being a complete nightmare in the moment and I regret until the next morning when the meat is cooling.
The night can be a long, and lonely when you have an arrow in an elk and it doesn’t drop dead in its tracks.
@@Dyl_crafter Oh man, isn't that the truth... Long nights with a headlamp, sweating when you're working and freezing when you stop to rest. haha
Cliff we’re going to watch the video no matter what you name it just post it we get the alert we click and watch that simple lol. Thanks for everything my guy
Bwhaha! Thanks Nick 👍
@@CliffGraythis is true
@@CliffGray 100% true. Any video you put out is much appreciated. If you justify spending time making the video then it must be worth it.
💯. I've guided for 20+ years and it's amazing how very few understand this. They almost always want to call it quits an hr or so before dark. The last half hr (5 mins of legal light) is when we get most all our elk in the evening. They get excited when we first set down for the evening then prime time comes and there not looking anymore. I look (glass) harder the later it gets. Love a good evening hunt!
I sent this video to my hunting partners (my sons) to help explain "the quit feeling" because they get exhausted by putting too much energy in the wrong places at the wrong time. Thanks Cliff.
👍👍👍
I don’t know if you have ever done a video on “Overcoming the fear of Solo hunting in the dark” but if you do, I bet it will be popular. A lot of us “Tough guys” don’t wanna admit it, but that’s the reason most of us head to the truck at 4pm in the afternoon. That fact alone is why 90% of us don’t kill elk….. we wait till sun up to get on the mountain while the 10 percenters are already quartering their kill before the rest of us leave the road.
Ain’t nothing there in dark that isn’t there in the light Shane
@@africanjew1596bahahaha this is literally what I was told when I was 10 and had issues with the dark.
It's a fact that almost everyone is afraid of the dark. Almost everyone denies it. It just takes some getting used to and then you're golden. I don't even use a head lamp most of the time.
Too many hunters confuse camping with hunting. Leave late because they have to have a big breakfast or come in early to do like you said, need to get dinner going, cutting wood, go to the bathroom etc. Then stay up too late organizing camp, talking, camp talk is part of hunting but manage your time so you can have new stories. One other thing use your standard vision to look around on occasion not just through your glass.
Excellent subject and info as always Cliff 👍
Having harvested the VAST majority of my elk in the last bit of shooting light of the day, I couldn't agree more with you about just how critical good time management is. As well as adjusting your "normal" routine to the hunt.
This man knows what he is talking about, i was a guide in Big Horn Wyoming and the Elk and Mule deer are really smart, which makes for a very fair chase hunt. Which also teaches you to be a better hunter. Great stuff, listen to this guy.
Shhh! I hunt public land and see this all the time. If you tell people though, by the last few days of an archery hunt, when they usually head home, they'll still be there. It'll lower my odds!
Seriously though, I had to learn this stuff too though. The organization and times are really important and then when you actually start a stalk, it's the wind. Elk are places for a reason. Keep checking the wind. The wind changes and the animals know where and when it changes. The closer you get the more you need to check.
Cliff, this is gold information! I got into hunting later in life and feel like I’m losing precious time. My partner and I have bow-hunted elk for 8 years. We have done our “e-research,” hunted hard, and been very successful at finding elk, but still 0-8 on even getting close enough to drawing our bows. Thank you for sharing this information. We hope to use these tools in this coming season.
Cliff you have produced a lot of very good videos…..this one ranks right at the top. I am a seasoned western hunter and found plenty of new things to contemplate from your advice. Appreciate your content.
Just scored on a returned idaho elk tag sale. Brushing up on my Cliff elk knowledge, this concept is super valuable to me as a newer elk hunter. This will be my fourth elk trip. I was able to tag my first idaho bull on my third trip. Hoping to carry that successful momentum into my hunt this year! Keep up the awesome videos. Love the game processing information too! Good luck this season.
Awesome! Good luck on the hunt this Fall 👍
Been hunting elk 15 years in same area northern Colorado. I’m 67 and hunt strictly nasty timber and there is no glassing and I do this solo. I’m not afraid of the dark and I know I’m missing some great action but navigating this sh- - in the dark for a mile or two is more than I want to do at my age. BUT this year I’ll give it a go. I drew an Elk and Mule deer archery tag. Great video as always, you never stop learning. 🏹🏔️🌲⛺️🦌
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Specific tactics for thick country: Use white retro reflective tacks to mark your trail in. No matter what you hear on the way, continue to your spot (putting yourself in range of their travel route, but understanding the thermals in your area). Your route in is very important. Do not cross their travel path. You should get settled approximately 1 hour before it’s light. Don’t call. Just listen and learn. Do this for a few days and you’l either kill one or may discover you should be at a different location…and start the process over. Works where I hunt…and it’s thick here. Virtually no glassing. Once you find “the spot” you may enjoy years of success.
@@JohnPhillips-qw4db I have a huge tree rubbed so I know there in there.
Cliff, thanks for making this point. We aren’t the super heroes we think we are sometimes.
I am glad my son likes to fish during the heat of the day, and we usually hit the hunting spots in the mornin and evenings.
That’s a great way to do it 👍
I’ve cheated most my life because I had mules and packed into wilderness areas as a young man and now as an older man I have private lands that hold Elk. Elk are pretty easy to hunt, but can be damn hard to find. I’ve ridden thirty miles in a day in a loop around a wilderness camp and nada. And three days later it’s like the heavens opened and Elk fell out. Sometimes it’s easier to wait for them to come to you than for you to go to them. Hats off to the backpack hunters in wilderness areas. Should be an Olympic sport. Always thought of you with a cold beer in my hand sitting in a saddle and looking back at 2 mules, 4 quarters and horns a head and a cape. Now I do a ebike and lots of trail cameras and hunting blinds. Patterns develop and you just have to wait for them to cross the fence back over onto your place. And hope the neighbor doesn’t score first. Which happens….
Your content constantly improves. Delivery, editing, camera angles, topics, guests and formats. I've watched em all Cliff. Large sample size. Your work is elite.
Cliff you make some good points but also some poor ones. I’ve had a lot of mule deer success packing to stay out all day. Eat lunch in the field, nap in the field mid day. Glass more and move less. I see so many hunters tromping around the sage country not seeing any of the deer I’m watching all day. Your on point though that you have to have the stamina to stick with it and focus during prime time. This approach has resulted in a good number of field dressed deer in the dark and late night pack outs. Pack and plan for that and success rates go up.
I hear ya Tim. I don’t think we disagree. I wish I would have made this more clear in the video that it isn’t about never glassing/hunting during off prime times. More about being 100% present at the prime times and then do what you can and what makes sense for the specific hunt your on. Thanks 👍
Mostly agree with this stuff. Napping midday can be tough when it's bright warm outside. Maybe a catnap or two but 3-4 hours is a tall order for me. Navigating in the dark can be dangerous. It isn't the predator issue so much as slipping or tripping on things I can't see well. Plus, the deer can see perfectly well while we can't see them at all. So I won't let myself be too exposed until I can see at least enough to know if there's deer in my immediate area. Oddly, in a spot I've gotten to know very well, the earliest hours have some activity but a lot of activity happens at the thermal shift when the winds are stagnant or moving back/forth -- giving them a chance to know what is both ahead and behind them. The deer move quickly during that hour to get themselves into position before the winds shift uphill -- often running from place to place, stopping occasionally to read the wind & then running another 100 yards or so. Maybe it's a local phenomenon but it's pretty reliable in my mountains. But, yes! Time management is a HUGE issue in people's success and failure. Early season archery, there's a huge chunk of time to kill midday but it's pretty intense from evening until late the next morning. Late season, it's an intense day and a very relaxing evening & night where I have time to read books in the tent & relax. But field life should always revolve around those prime hours, whatever they are -- couldn't agree more.
Great comment. Thanks.
Agreed on thermal shift… I should have put that in here as an example of prime movement time for mountain hunting.
Cliff I really don't like you telling my hunting competition about this stuff. ;) Honestly though this content is great and right on the money. The only thing I would add is that we have been blessed on many occasions by having lunch with a group of hunters watching a prime mountainside or draw. No glassing, just BSing and something pops up. I've spent too many hot days behind glass and my eyes were super tired come prime time in the evening. Not worth it at all.
Absolutely. It’s a really good point… amazing how much just watching without glass, resting/eating, over a good area can turn something up.
Cliff love your show please don’t turn into a sellout. Your content is always much appreciated especially by us blue collar working guys. Your you don’t need all this no bs is what got you here keep up the great work.
I’m out two hours before daylight locating bugling bulls . If you’re leaving camp when it’s daylight …you’re too late .
Great video, Cliff, not boring at all. The great temptation for me to get back to camp too early is simply that I hate hiking through deadfall in the dark. It's inevitable; it's necessary; it's no fun at all.
I totally get it
A lot of this happens naturally as you get older. I’m 60 now and I relax mid day (unless you’re actually hunting a water source), eat a nice lunch, have a good nap. You’re forced to prioritize time, become more efficient and hunt prime times because you don’t have endless energy like you’re 25. And I kill more game now too, if I want to…
I think this is a great point. I noticed it with my clients… some older guys that I’d consider “intense hunters” but only on a schedule
How do fall bear compare to spring bear in terms of the time of day that they are most active
Pretty close to the same. First 30min to hr of day and last two hours.
The funny part is that I used to tease my old man for taking naps in the middle of the day. But as I got more hunts under my belt, I started understanding why he always wanted to take naps during the middle of the day. Now we both take naps during the middle of the day! 😂
Cliff i love all the content! Ive learned so much from your videos. I was able to harvest my first Muledeer last year! Thank you!
Thanks Cliff, I’m revising my hunt plan based on your advice. Makes so much sense but I never thought of it this way.
Fascinating I never made these correlations before. Thank you 🙏 I’ve seen elk, deer, bear just as you described.
Good stuff Cliff Makes perfect sense to what your saying. Thanks for all the good info
My girlfriend likes to join my archery elk hunts, and she hates walking in the dark. We inevitably get in a fight where she says, "Can't we just hunt during the day and not walk in the dark?" Um, no, we can't.
On my deer hunt last year, the only time i saw mule deer was around 11:30 in the afternoon moving down the canyon I was hunting.
I caught a quick flash of as two deer stepped out between two trees and promptly jumped into a ravine disappearing out of sight.
11:30 is not afternoon. Afternoon means after “noon” aka 12:00 lol
@@ski4life9 my bad. I should have said "in the morning"
@@nativewarrior5052 lol I’m just messing bro I don’t care.
Kifaru = #1> Tell Aron to get you two on a podcast together.
Great info once again. I have learned so much from your videos. Thanks again for making these.
Loved the video definitely going to help me a ton! This was definitely my biggest problem last year(first year hunting) figured hunting all day long would make up for missing the pre dawn glassing hours. No success and never saw any elk during archery yet saw all the freshest sign and was on their bedding in the early morning but never early enough. Got a 25/26 archery mule tag this year hope to see some flat tops guides in action while im out doing my thing!
Great information. Thank you.
Clif, I'm still a newbie so Please you know well how to do all of this so keep telling what we really need. Thank you for all your insight! I am learning a lot and beginning to learn my near by hunting areas.
I haven't been successful yet but got close to some elk last year & had fun. I just need to keep investing the needed time. Thanks again!
New to Western hunts, learning so much from your content. Thank you Cliff
What scares me about going mountain hunting in the dark is that I may end up being bear shit. The thought of going out like that is unnerving.
Bwhaha yeah I hear ya
Quality advice.. this flatlander appreciates your efforts… tks Cliff.
Thanks!
Really helpful information... I've never been a hunter, but want to this next season. I had no idea why I rarely ever see deer in the forest... now I know why there seems to be very little wildlife - I'm looking at the wrong times. Thanks Cliff!
Great content. Just the info I needed to hear that no one really talks about. Not sexy, but useful.
Thanks!
It's good to warn new people you hunt with not to pull the fire alarm if you're not back 1-2 hours after dark. I've made some people very uncomfortable by not warning them. Now i warn everyone as we are planning the hunt. So they can be prepared to be alone after dark for awhile.
Yeah that’s a great point. Thanks Vince
@@CliffGray sure thing. Only mention it cause some people don't even like to be in spike/base camp or waiting alone at the truck after dark and then they drop "turd bombs" as you say.
Honestly, I've been guilty of all the above at one time or another I'm sure, but I'm stubborn and never give up 😂
Great Video Cliff! ❤
Great video, I do pretty well as all of my harvests so far in Az have been in the morning. Maybe a reason as I’m always back to truck or camp before dark it seems. I’m about always by myself (unless helping another DV) and have that mentality of not getting stuck out overnight.
Totally get it.
My only input to this is to say, that when looking for animals, don't stare hard,all tense. Relax,you see movement in your peripheral areas of vision far better than you think. the time to look hard is when you have already identified movement.
I like it! Good stuff, man!
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Also adding to the nav, and i am sure this man knows this, but know your maps before you go, at least get a topo map for the area and understanding the topo. Knowing your roads where you could get to and knowing an exit (also because with elk, the kill is tough but the next part and taking care of the animal takes much longer than many people think) but if you can learn to use an analog watch as a compass is easy but can really help you with a topo map. I have saved many hours after kill, just knowing an easier access route to get your game to an easy transit situation and will make life much easier. I am sure he has talked about this but I just want to say this guy i really respect because he definitely knows his stuff. He has great info for all of you.
Agreed perfect example yz ranch and flat tops
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As I prepare for my first elk hunt, post rut at the end of rifle season on public land with 200 other hunters and average 23% success for this hunt I'm hoping to soak it as much elk knowledge as possible.
I plan to scout and glass for elk during the summer and the weeks leading up to my hunt.
I want to have an idea of where the elk are, and be able to track their movement as hunting pressure increases to increase my odds of harvesting.
CO 62??
Excellent.
Great stuff
Thank u
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I agree with you %99 Cliff. Admittedly, I fall into that trap myself a lot for the reasons you mention. Hard to face. Nonetheless, It's great advice! Thank you
I see and have many hunters admit fear. They DO NOT have the knowledge or skill of navigation. Most hunters are fearful of darkness and getting lost or killed by predators. Most hunters depend on modern technology and fear loss of service/battery life. Most hunters may not admit that fear KEEPS ANIMALS ALIVE....they also have time to kill, they don't make time to hunt. Hunting is easy. Making it a priority or lifestyle is hard
Outstanding! This is the God's truth. Bringing the behavioral features of civilization to the wild handicaps hunters. Spot on to manage time as Cliff suggests.
Even when you know most of the info to be true, it can be hard to fight the internal demons, so hearing it over and over it helpful! I always struggle with what to do after the good morning hours as mainly a bow hunter in Utah where season opens mid August. There is just so much time to kill I either wind up on 8 mile expeditions aimlessly wandering through good country like an idiot, or feeling like I'm not even trying by sitting in the same place fighting sunburn for 12 hours until it gets to be prime time again.
Yeah, I hear you. Long days can be tricky. Just find some ways to utilize the time. I mention it briefly in the video, but I spend a lot of midday time glassing bedding areas… low intensity glassing
I'm a rookie, but I feel this this is for me😂.
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Love your perspective Cliff! Always appreciate you sharing these fairly tidy videos about things we're probably messing up! To each their own, but I'll disagree on the "You shouldn't hunt all day" point. For some people, glassing/hunting in the morning, resting during the day, and glassing/hunting in the evening is a great system. Keeps them in it and keeps spirits high. But your point about wolves and cats only hunting in sprints just doesn't resonate with me. We're at the top of the food chain because we can do things they can't. African tribes used to run after dear until the dear quit and laid down. That's an extreme example, but I believe there are lots of opportunities to kill elk (especially herd bulls) and high country mule deer in the middle of the day!
have to move at the speed of nature not easy for the modern man
Good point!
I suck because I get impatient. Like with this, 30:36 video. I skimmed through and accidentally landed on 15 min in. Then I paid attention almost fully until 22min. Then skimmed to the end. But man, maximizing the three hours a day when I’m functional, yeah! Then dedicating off hours to other chores. I get that and thank you for explaining that to my squirrel brain.
I hear a lot of guys talk about glassing for tracks in the snow, but I've never heard what to actually do when you find them. Are there any videos out there on the topic?
Cliff - you’re the hook, don’t sweat the title.
Thanks PIMP! ❤
Let’s go!
💪🏻👍💪🏻
Been diy hunting for the past six seasons. I have definitely made all of these mistakes. Thanks
To be fair I think not living is North America or the Americas as a whole is also limiting my elk and bear killing 😅🙃😛
So would you say it is safe to say that as hunting pressure increases the time animals spend out in the open during shooting hours decreases to the point where if there is really heavy hunting pressure they could become almost completely nocturnal. For example in coastal logging country where during rifle season for elk the hunting pressure is very intense especially because of all the roads and 4 wheelers and side by sides driving around almost constantly. Do you think in these situations the elk would only feed in the clearcuts at night and then by first light be in the timber or reprod on the way to thier beds? This has at least been my experience. There are tons of elk in these kinds of areas with lush clearcuts for food and pockets of timber checkerboarded across the landscape but they are extremely difficult to glass up and kill. Especially older bulls. Could treestand or still hunting trails to bedding areas be more productive than glassing in this case?
In cases where they can get feed, elk will do this… 100%. Never leave the timber. Places like the pnw where grass grows in the timber is like that. CO, WY, ID, MT they can get pretty close to nocturnal but usually they have to come out some during daylight just to get the calories they need. The conifers in the mountain west usually have minimal grasses growing under and among them.
Cliff create an elk knife for backpack elk hunting
I wish you would stop giving away all the secrets 😂😂
I love these hunters!
If these new hunters would listen to you they would save their self years of mistakes
Haha! 👍thanks
Scared of the dark like me ? Buy night vision 😂
Yet another tease with the Kifaru shirt. Looking forward to the Cliff Gray/Aron Snyder meeting of the minds.
Bwhaha I’ll get with Aron at some point.
It’s about hunting smarter - not longer.
As I have aged, life has humbled me, thank God. Realizing that a few years ago, I started trying to be more efficient with my time and energy. It's been good for my hunting. I am scared of Bigfoot after dark, constantly checking my back trail.
Bwhaha I hear ya! 👍
Whitetail hunters in the western world lol
I dont hunt your title nor appreciate it. Bye
If your gonna kill a black tail deer in nor commifornia. It’s gonna be at 10am. You’ll catch em on their way back to bed becouse their all nocturnal out there. There’s too many people after them.
To be fair I think not living is North America or the Americas as a whole is also limiting my elk and bear killing 😅🙃😛