Don’t Fall For The Braid To Fluorocarbon Hype
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- Опубликовано: 2 фев 2023
- Randy lays out his opposition to braid the flurocarbon…#bassmaster #fishing #bassfishing #bass #fishingdaily #angler #angler #catchandrelease #fishinglife #fishingtrip #fish
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I save a fortune in line using braid to fluorocarbon. My line isn't free
same here brother some of those guys are out of touch with the rest of the fishing community when it comes to not having free shit given to them
U said it
Same! It allows you to buy premium fluorocarbon without completely breaking the bank.
No doubt!
That’s exactly why I do, the cash I save allows me to buy line like Shooter or Seaguar
Worth it to avoid all the line twist and coils. Still getting bites.
The reason to use it is the sensitivity of braid but with a low visibility advantage of fluoro. The FG knot is easy to tie and I personally don’t think the fish are concerned about a piece of line 20’ away. The biggest issue is straight fluorocarbon is a nightmare on a spinning reel. I’ve tried it and it sucks horribly.
I could not agree more. I have tried straight flouro on everything and it always ends the same way. A massive blow-up of line, line twist, loops and F-bombs. Some of my all time best cuss fits have occurred using a spinning reel sans braid. And, I AM CAREFUL. I manually close my bail every time and follow that by pulling the slack out. I try to feather the line going out on every cast with my index finger. Flouro/mono is still gonna twist. I have really tried fishing a jerkbait w/a spinning reel. Always ends the same. A blow up and massive F-bombs. Best of luck with the straight flouro. I'll stick to my yeller braid.
I have issues with it on my baitcasters. I tried to run straight fluoro on my cranking rod. It’s a Denali attack series and I could feel anything. I literally hooked a fish first day with it and didn’t even know till I got it almost to the boat. Not to mention all the casting issues I had. I still run a 20-25’ leader on that setup but with the braid it’s a night and day difference
@@billpatterson6249 tie your floro to something after you spool it. walk back while letting line out a little further than you can cast. Now, stretch the floro line for a minute or two. It really helps with the memory and it's a game changer......for me at least! Tight Lines
My thoughts exactly. Straight Fluorocarbon is a bird nest waiting to happen. I use moss green braid with a 15 foot fluorocarbon leader, which works great on both spinning and casting rigs for jigs, senkos, drop shotting, any slow feel the bite type presentations. The only other line I use is straight monofilament for cast and retrieve type baits like spinnerbaits, crankbaits, top waters, jerk baits, etc..... Mono is much more forgiving than fluorocarbon when casting. It does have more stretch, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
@@throwluckfishing5785 I use this method for mono and it works great!
Braid to fluoro = No line twist (eliminates bird's nests), longer casts ( more bites), saves money (more $ to spend on fishing), more sensitive (catch more fish by using a "crank set"). Learn how to tie an Alberto knot, use a long leader to avoid braid knot abrasion and you will actually catch more fish than using straight fluoro. I know this through experience. I also know controversy gets more RUclips hits. Mission accomplished Randy. 🙂
Get good with floro and you never have issues. Complaining about floro is like complaining about backlashing. Braid / leaders is a waste of time. I stay in the water all day. Problem in line, cut it out and move on. My buddy is sitting there reting leaders in the rain 😂
Well all that knowledge just went right over your head lol
if you tie the FG knot correctly it will absolutely not break. After youve tied it over and over it is not hard to tie either, Youre weaving the line. when you watch someone else tie it it looks hard, but really isnt. I honestly cannot remember ever breaking an FG knot and if i did it was when i first started tying it and was tied incorrectly. I feel braid to leader has many benefits over straight fluoro. Its much easier to manage on the spool, you can use different sized lines just by retying the leader, its much cheaper, hooksets on long casts seem better etc. Its all personal preference though. But to say someone is going to break an FG knot that is tied correctly ,I dont think so. The lines going to break before the knot slips. Alot of guys use it because of the many benefits.
Also I’ve never have a double uni knot fail so his partner must have just sukt 😭
FG is a standard with me from braid to mono leader.… in the surf,...I have a 20’/25’ top shot/ shock leader on all of my multiplier reels for the surf, ... Baitcasting for bass is enough over hand and wrapped around the spool 2/3 times, ... The FG knot works so smoothly through the guides… it's as slick as slug snot, ....this knot has never failed me.… I’ve only cracked off when I try to whip the shit out of my 12’ heaver but the FG knot and braid is never the weak point… FG is slick as slug snot.… thing about fluoro, ... whatever works for you, ... I don't miss out on many fish..!
👌😎🤙
I agree, but it is a major pain in the ass to tie on the water.
@@Fords_N_Fishinthis. It’s literally impossible an FG will break before your knot at the lure will.
I just like it because I can change line weight without re spooling my reel. I only have 2 spinning rods so it just gives me alot of versatility. I don't have the money to be changing out my line all the time. That braid lasts me all year. So for me it's convenience and cost savings. I use the Alberto which is pretty easy for me. Also, i like the lack if line twist. But, I couldn't care less what anyone else does. Whatever works for someone works.
While I don’t recommend it I had a friend use the same braid for 3 years before changing it
I think braid to fluoro is good in clear water on pressured bass but not necessary. My favorite knot for it is the Crazy Alberto knot. Much faster than the FG and its 90% as clean.
Braid pros for me
1) Can respool lees often
2) No memory issues
3) Limited space on the kayak and can make less rods work for more things by changing leader size
4) More sensitive
Cons
1) Breaking off and having to put on new leader
2) Apparently scaring fish and less bites
3) doesn’t come through guides as easy
I don’t think you’re scaring fish, especially with moss green. Also, I haven’t broken off a leader since learning the FG knot. It’s a game changer. And you barely notice it coming through the guides
@@Mbtharp1I think it matters in very clear water. That being said, I use straight braid on most my spinning setups because the water I fish is pretty heavily stained.
What no one has mentioned is the increased hookset penetration with braid to flouro vs straight flouro. Definitely makes a difference. I enjoy the increased sensitivity in finesse situations. The longer casts are an asset in heavily pressured waters. The idea that my line is spooking fish and keeping them from biting may carry some merit, but we run trolling motors and sound producing electronics. So the farther I can cast, with better hookset percentage, and most importantly I have confidence in it.
If you’re running a decent flouro leader, you’re not spooking fish. This dude is just old and doesn’t like change.
easy to break braid to flouro the braid is a lot stronger so it can cause the flouro to break hell I break braid all the time
@@Mbtharp1 Old? The guy is only 50 yo. I'm 52 and have fished mono of every type most of my life. I've also used fluorocarbon extensively. Apart from a tiny few drawbacks, nothing competes with a braid and fluorocarbon leader in the hands of an experienced angler. Amongst the extensive experience that I have, is also the experience of practically all long-time anglers throwing their poorly reasoned confirmation biases into their genuine hard won knowledge. They assume their guesses of multiple variables that they don't have solid evidence for are correct by sheer dint of their experience, and not just a subjective shot in the dark. This guy is a classic case of that. He favours straight flouro, good for him, but it's a biased opinion based on limited subjective experience. I specialise in fishing for bass (sea bass) here in Ireland and a number of traditional long held beliefs about what "spooks them" in regards to end-tackle used has turned out to be mostly bullshit, from hard evidence. Certain species of fish have broad habits, but the number of variables that govern exactly what they do are constantly in flux. Experience counts for a lot, but astute awareness of provable facts counts for more.
Fluoro doesn’t stretch, so it should hook the same
@Satansoft Yes it does.
Every time I try straight fluorocarbon I get nothing but a mess. Knots, line twist, and birds nest. I’ve tried a few different brands and same frustration. I personally know guys that use braid to fluorocarbon and catch thousands of smallmouth each season. I usually agree with your opinions, but not so much on this one.
It’s because this opinion is complete nonsense
Are you saying braid doesn't tangle ?
Yes, floro is a skill issue for most people. Complaining about how floro handles is like complaining about backlashing. Get good and it almost never happens. Youre a floro noob, what do you expect?
@@cautionfiamableI cannot get the fluoro to stay spooled up tight on the reel....it always fluffs up,
Fluoro has line memory, so how do you prevent it from wanting to straighten?
@jw-lk1pe i use higher end shimano or daiwa spinning reels. Usually 4000 size. The larger spool diameter helps. I also use quality soft floro like tatsu. 12lb is about as high as i go. Then switch to hybrid. reel spool it face up.
Just use straight braid and call it good.
Fewer bites? I dunno. Consider that we know bass will hit an unpainted rectangular block of wood with some hooks hanging off of it, and that they routinely hit all sorts of gadgets with spinners, propellers, metal flaps and clangers, etc. that don't look a darn thing like anything that does or - even could - exist in nature. And yet despite that, somehow a few inches of line is the thing that's going to scare them off? Having a hard time buying it.
Then again, I very rarely fish in crystal clear water. Most of my bass fishing has always been in heavily tannin stained "blackwater" creeks and rivers, or farm ponds. If I were fishing in places with water with 20 ft of visibility instead of 4 inches, maybe I would have a different position on this, based on experience. But plain braid has always worked fine for me.
Some good points
I agree with you on that it always worked for me when I had 20 ft or more of a leader.
And with a good tide FG knot it does not come undone and when I get caught on something I pull and I break off mi or I still have my FG knot tied to my leader.
Yep.....Marling Baits proved that a bass will hit a stick or a block of wood with treble hooks on it.
With the diameter of say 10 lb test braid having the same diameter of 4 lb test mono there's really no reason you can't use straight braid. The bass are only focused on the lure. Last year I did try braid/floro and lost more bass on setting the hook than I did when using straight braid. Unless you are fishing highly pressured or crystal clear water there's no reason you can't fish straight braid.
On a side note I did see a video where somebody put some hooks on a GoPro camera and caught a bass. If they are hungry they will bite anything.
Double uni knots work great for me. I mainly fish rivers so cranks jerks and jigs get where they need to be.
Yep double uni knot is the best unless your going from smaller diameter braid to big FC like 80lb then a Albright or one of its variations. Or FG if you want to waste time LOL 😂😂😂
Same. Been using double Uni for braid to fluro for smallies and stripers with no issues.
@@BassManStrikes I can tie an FG in about a minute. I tie enough leader I can retie several times before I have to tie another leader. If I have to retie in windy / bad conditions I'll use a uni to uni. FG doesn't really waste time, its a better knot but sometimes its just too tough with rocking boats, wind, and my old man eyes...
I pull in fish on 10lb braid with 20lb leader that would swallow a bass whole.
University of Washington did a study comparing fishing line types and they found that fish (mainly bass) rely on their lateral line sensing over their sight and that the thicker line you have the easier it is for bass to since it and not eat your lure. So their conclusion was that straight braid was the best for almost all waters due to the line diameter being so thin. The bass couldn’t since it as much. Additionally, bass do not see light refraction the same way humans do. Just because it’s hard for us to see floro under water doesn’t mean bass do. Their eyes are made to see and since objects under water, our eyes are not.. So if I am fishing open water with little brush and rocks I use just straight braid and a medium weight and moderate rod. This goes for cranks, spinners baits, jerks baits, and plastics. I get more bites than my braid to floro buddies and just straight floro. But it’s absolutely imperative that you do not use a fast or extra fast rod. You will rip that lure right out of the basses mouth. It has to be moderate. If I am fishing rivers with lots of rocks and other objects then I will use mono and a fast or extra fast rod. This is due to mono being much more abrasion resistant vs floro and braid. The only issue is, you have to buy really good mono. If you don’t you will have bird nests all day.
Ive used nothing but Trilene XL for 40 years. I have no problem catching tons of fish.
I started using braid to flouro (or mono) about 6 years ago, when I first tried ned rigging. I fish natural lakes in MN which aren't clear except early spring. What surprised me and ended up hooking me to this line/leader combo was how often I would "see" the bite long before I could feel it. Those bass so often would pick up the jig and swim sideways or towards the boat... and I felt absolutely nothing. But I could see the bright yellow or green line start moving and was able to react accordingly. I tried fishing a ned this last summer on a spinning rig with 8lb straight flouro, and it was a horrible experience, like I was fishing blind! I get my rods rigged up prior to fishing usually with an FG knot, but if I break off or my knot fails while fishing, I can easily tie a crazy alberto to a new leader, even in the wind. And with the low visibility of some of the lakes I fish (2-5 ft), I'll often use a mono leader, which seems to hold knots better for me. Had up to 65 bass caught by myself in less than 5 hours with such a setup. So for me the key is enhanced bite detection, the lowered cost of braid is gravy.
Randy, as always, thank you for the time and energy you spend to bring us this fishing information. As a 95% fly fisherman/5-10% spin casting/bait fishing my life has revolved around tying leaders to fly line with an overwhelming number of variations depending on target species, types of water, water conditions, etc. Quite frankly it is exhausting. And you are right, dealing with knot tying over 50 is a PIA. I have played the flouro vs braid game on spinning/baitcasting rods. I can appreciate the numerous comments below about the frustration with straight fluoro and it's memory causing frequent line messes and hours of frustration for many anglers. COULD YOU PLEASE DO A FOLLOW-UP VIDEO ON TIPS AND TRICKS TO AVOID LINE TANGLING, TWISTS AND MESSES WITH STRAIGHT FLUORO. It would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Randy gets his line for free. He probably respools every weekend. He doesn’t have these problems because he is completely out of touch.
To really blow your mind lol....I've fished mono my whole life. I've been fishing with 2 friends for a long time who, for a couple years now, have been using braid. One uses straight braid with no leader, as do his kids. One uses braid to a mono leader. We are fishing in a murky lake and primarily weightless with senkos. We all catch the same amount of fish. I never would've believed it with out being there.
I save a ton of coin in lures using straight braid with a thin wire jig. I can bend that hook 50 times on stumps and rocks before loosing it. Casting is important when finish from the shore of the river. I agree that mono /fluorocarbon only in the boat works good but shore fishing or jigging vertical, I have always hooked up more walleyes using 8lb Fireline. Worked very well for me in the past yet all to their own. If you want more fish, it simply boils down to spending time fishing, knowing where to fish, what rigs work and keeping your lines in the water. If you know the spot and how to fish it, you will know how to avoid all the snags and get the fish too. Fished bass a lot when I was a child and the amount of time you spend on bass is better spent fishing for small mouth, panfish, perch, pike and walleye. They all taste better, and you can get your children to appreciate the sport a lot more because the shorter learning curve, cost and casting skills don't prevent you from being able to get started quick. A bass boat is the most useless boat out in water where you will have an occasional 3 or 4 ft wave. They are cool but just about worthless as a trout or walleye fishing tool when you have to go into a real river or lake. To all your own.
No hate here. Just my reasons why I do….8 out of 10 of my rods are braid to floro including all my spinning rods. Here is my list of why I use this set up. #1 I don’t want to change out my floro line 2 to 3 times a year. To expensive. #2 If you tie your B2L knot correctly you don’t need to re-tie it during a day of fishing. Re-tie at home the night before #3 Very Very rarely have a broken out at my B2L knot. When I snag and pull to break off, it’s always at my knot to my lure. #4 I don’t use high-vis braid for some reasons Randy said. #5 I don’t have $400 Megabass rods so having braid makes my set up more sensitive #6 You won’t lose more fish because of the lack of stretch because if you have your drag set right and you are using the right rod you’re good. #7 FG knot is great ONLY if you tie it 100% perfect. I use the Alberto knot and it never fails. #8 You can go from swimming a small swimbait to a bottom contact ned rig on the same line set up. 15lbs braid to 8lb floro cover 90% of what I through. And you CAN throw a jerkbait with this.
Next time you bring out client for a jerkbait lesson you should fish the whole day with B2F while you client fishes with floro and see you lands more for science.
This is great!
And haha I’d wager the professional bass fisherman would catch more than his clients if he was using a friggen ice fishing rod. All it proves is that experience matters more than what fishing line you’re using.
I wouldn't recommend a beginner to do it or someone who doesn't like to retie but. If u know ur lines and ur rods and how they correlate to one another and what type of line would work best with that rod but. I personally haven't had any issues with braid to leader and don't think it has cost me any bites at all cause. I'm catching fish that other people aren't in my area or literally fishing right near someone and I'm smacking em and there not. An I've used in crystal clear water where trout are stocked and smacked the hell em there to and my best day on swimbaits was at that lake with braid to leader.
Well hey if Randy is so correct then can you tell me how an earth do I use straight fluorocarbon or straight monofilament on my baitcaster without getting phrase or bird nests in my real when I cast and when I literally try to prevent bird nests!!!?????
@@silentnight2292 Setting your reel brakes correctly will help tremendously. Tighten your spool brake all the way...hold the rod at the 2 o'clock position and press the thumb bar. When set correctly when the lure hits the ground there should be very little overrun at the spool. As for the centrifugal brake on the left side of the reel...when I started using a baitcaster I had mine turned all the way up and over time I've gotten to where I can back it off about half way. I'm sure there are others with better advice. Good luck and tight lines.
Easily!!! I used mono in my baitcasters and get no birdsnest unless it's super windy @silentnight2292
My buddy and I caught 30 and 50 on consecutive days this weekend on pressured lake....all my fish were caught on braid to flouro....no problems ....I did break off a few times...the FG never failed it either broke at the lure or the line broke...why not just say this is what works for me...as for yellow line and clear water...i grew up out west a trout fisherman both spinning and fly fishing..flyline is yellow the leader is 9 to 12 feet and the water is gin clear and shallow....and caught a ton of fish 🤔
Agreed. I have been using braid to go fluoro for more than a decade. Have never lost a fish at the FG knot. Neither have I lost a rig because of a failed FG knot when snagged badly, every failure was at the hook knot or swivel. FG knots are stronger than any other knot of a fluoro and hardly ever fail if tied properly.
Recently switched my baitcasters from braid to fluoro, to just straight fluoro to try it out. I was definitely in the category of new to fishing when I set up braid to fluoro and was told it was the way to go. Made the change to form my own opinion on it. Excited to experiment and get a idea of what I like better. What you said in this video makes a lot of sense to me though.
I did the same and I'm ready to switch back. The line memory and backlashes are the main reason for switching back.
More backlashes with straight floro? Was thinking about making th switch from jbraid but now I’m reconsidering. My lead is just too long
For the conditions I fish-crystal clear Ozarks creeks for smallmouth-10 lbs braid to a 6-8 lbs flouro leader, 12 feet long, is the only way to go. It doesn’t matter if it’s a spinning rod or bait caster.
Edit: I should add, I fix the issue of not having give in the line by only using medium or medium-light rods.
Randy I can't say your advice is any more or less helpful than any other influencers on RUclips,but you are the best of all at starting debates and at times rubbing your viewers the wrong way with your opinions.I have actually grown to like your new channel much better as it is (thus far at least) all fishing tips without the opion pieces.
I believe the fish feel the line in the water regardless of type, unless it is not moving at all. I use braid because I don't like respooling due to memory. I don't fish all the time and braid just makes more sense to me, but I think fish just don't care overall.
I like it because I do not have to re-spool as often and loose the spinning reel line twist issues. I used to fish local tournaments with an older fisherman we fished against. Normally we were fishing for second when he showed up. He kicked our butts all the time fishing straight 50+ pound braid on everything. We asked him want that scare the fish? He said how else is the fish going to find your bait.
Fluorocarbon is better if you fish all the time but if you only go fishing once a month the memory in fluoro is gonna curl your line and cause you to backlash more which sucks
Exactly correct.
I somewhat agree although the other advantage you didn't mention is the hookset on a long cast. I've found that on topwater straight braid floats better and is in essence an advantage because your lure will have the proper action with the line floating. Use Fluorocarbon on something like a frog or a stick bait or popper and it sinks killing the action. I think there's a time and a place for braid to fluorocarbon. I use it throwing large swimbaits and I usually put about a 25 foot leader of 20 pound Fluorocarbon with 65 pound test braid main line. I think its an advantage *sometimes. Theres always a time and a place for any strategy or tactic and to completely write it off is kinda narrow minded. With the bigger heavier hooks on a swimbait, the sensitivity and low stretch allows much better feel for when to set the hook and gives the leverage needed on a super long cast to hook the fish and keep it pinned with heavy pressure with such a large bait. I've hooked and lost fewer bass (and ones that count) fishing large swimbaits on braid to fluorocarbon than I ever did with straight fluorocarbon or mono. I never use braid to fluorocarbon on a spinning reel. No need. It's usually fluorocarbon or copolymer, the latter being my favorite due to its higher knot strength and having a bit of stretch. In other words, depending on what or how I'm fishing dictates what type of line and what gear I'm using, just like rod and reel setup. To completely write it off limits you as an angler. I guess it's all personal preference and to each their own.
I know getting the fish to bite is important. Thats is why I like to use a flurocarbon leader with braid. If all you fish for is bass in muddy or stained water it doesn't really matter. But some people get into a lot of clear water with pressured fish. Ever see what braid looks like on an underwater camera? It looks like rope.
Braid to fluorocarbon HANDLES SO MUCH BETTER. I never have to worry about line twist. That itself makes the choice for me.
I'll stick with my braid to flourocarbon. Less line twists, better sensitivity, lasts longer than just flouro alone. If I usually break a fish off its at the knot on the end of the line and not at the braid/flouro connection and yes that's because I'm too lazy re-tie. I used to fish flouro only and I can honestly say my bites and land ratios went up when I switched to braid/flouro. That's just me experience. I think everyone should try both ways and compare for themselves. Use what works.
It’s definitely much more sensitive than straight fluoro. I used to use straight fluoro, now I use braid with an FG to a fluoro leader. I initially did it to save money, but couldn’t see myself going back now because of the sensitivity and ease of hooksets especially on longer casts.
While I do agree 100% of what You're saying . . . I have some 'but's'.
100% fluro on a spinner is expensive and a pain to manage.
You need to change the fluro more frequently if you spool up 100%. Think 'Slinky Nightmare'.
I don't fish tournaments, so 'every bite' isn't critical to me. Braid to fluro is convenient.
Most of my lakes / waters have stained or dirty water so stealth concerns aren't a factor.
I do fish straight fluro on jerks & cranks, chatter baits, spinerbaits etc.
But on a light spinning rod application . . . there are some definite benefits of braid to fluro for the non-tournament angler.
I agree with you about fish being able to seeing braided line, esp the bright stuff! I've experimented quite a bit with that. BUT, I use an 8-12 foot leader of green power pro with a mono or flouro leader, tied with just back to back uni knots. I jerbbait fish largemouth with this in the midwest and have caught dozens and dozens of bass over 5 pounds with this combo and really never have breakoffs at the knot. I have also caught dozens of smallmouth between 4 and 7 lb's in the great lakes fishing the same setup, with jerks and with stuff like ned rigs. They don't spook from the green Power Pro that is 10 feet away. The advantages with this are way longer casts, much better hooksets at the end of long casts, increased sensitivity on longer casts and very little issues with coils on the spool. Plus, you could literally not change your line for years and be okay with that stuff (just change the leader). Spooling all up with flouro isn't as good of an option in my opinion. The use of baitcasting gear brings up different things but for spinnng the above is what I believe works best! (I go either all braid or all flouro in most instances with baitcasting gear)...
I use moss green braided line. But I use flourocarbon as well but not together. They both have they're own purposes. Thanks for the info Randy.
But you're not worried about the bass seeing thick wires of an Alabama rig?? Or a jerkbait Alabama rig? LMAO.
I’m a Muskie fisherman, and the purpose of using a fluorocarbon, or steel leader is a necessity. The Muskie are not too sensitive with the leader material, so long as the leader doesn’t effect the lures action. The braided line weight is #80 strength, and most leader break strength is #125. These toothy predators are hard on line without protective leaders.
I’ve fished braid to floro for nearly a decade at this point. Tried fishing straight floro again last year and it’s too much of a pain and expensive. I use the blood knot on all my leaders for spinning and baitcasters; never had the knot fail me. Highly recommend trying that knot. TacticalBassin uses the blood knot as well, that’s why I started using it lol
I use the Alberto it’s a lot easier to tie and I haven’t had too many line breaks unless I’m not paying attention
I even do this with fly line I’ll slap either straight fluoro or a top mono with fluoro dropping in size
I can tell the difference with how the fish react in higher pressure areas they don’t bite as much when they see the line
@@cityslickadundee3720I’ve NEVER had a crazy Alberto be the reason for failure. It’s almost ALWAYS because I forget to feel the leader for abrasion.
@@Smiththebat you definitely right about that !
I appreciate your well thought out arguments.
That’s good to hear, I know we’re not alone, there’s a lot of fishermen just like us !!
Same...yes man, there are actual anglers out here that do shit based on logic and knowledge. However, we are rare. The vast majority of bass fisherman today watch some dude on RUclips trying to sell them something that's completely pointless and fall for it hook, line and sinker everytime. (No pun intended) Then they will argue you down about it when you tell them it's pointless like they're some kind of expert. 😂
Bass feel the presence of your line regardless of the size or visibility. It's really amazing they bite at all. For what it's worth I just use 8 lb mono on spinning reels and never lose fish. I feel the bites fine too. I think you just gotta do what works best for you with your budget and fish and water. FWIW I don't like using leader knots either.
This is the answer. Whatever works for you! I’m also in the camp that straight mono/flouro is better for SOME situations while braid is better for others.
Used to go braid to floro all the time, got pretty good with the fg knot. Closest I get lately is old braid as backing and about 100 yards of floro. Floro is expensive.
Before there was braid I learned to suicide finesse fish from a guy that won the Bassmaster Classic a few decades ago, his name? Guido Hibdon. He fished a light spinning rig with 8 pound mono or copolymer line in places most folks would have been using a heavy flipping set up with 50 pound braid these days. His theory behind it? You’ve got to get bit then worry about getting them to the boat, just like Randy said. He made this what seemed impossible combination work by simply applying light pressure on the fish and waiting on it swim out of the cover. Their natural instinct is to go to deeper water to get away. I’ve done this for decades and can count on one hand the number of fish I’ve broken off. None of the larger fish I’ve caught ever broke off. That being said, line selection does plays an important part. I used Bass Pro Shops Excel in 8 pound clear. Why? I was given a sample spool in 8 pound and I put it on my finesse spinning rig to fish a tournament on Fork. I flipped a 4 inch Texas rigged finesse worm into a bed of hydrilla and hooked a 3 to 4 pound largemouth and it balled up in that stuff and I couldn’t get it to come out. I finally decided to break it off and move on. I wrapped the line around my hand and started pulling and I pulled the fish and a ball of hydrilla bigger than the fish out and almost straightened the hook. I got the fish. It’s all about line selection.
That's true for freshwater fishing you don't necessarily need that set up but for saltwater fishermen I suggest you apply that technique braid to mono or fluoro,it makes a huge difference.
90% agree with 100% of what you’ve said 😂 I love straight braided line with no leader at all for jerk baits, poppers, and most hard baits. You’re going for a fast instinctive reaction bite as opposed to a slow retrieve natural presentation bite. The fish’s own action of biting then a gentle pull of the rod often sets the hook without some overt theatrical hook set. Not to mention less work on the rod and your arm after an entire weekend of fishing. In the end there is no argument. Always use what you’re comfortable with as an angler and whatever gets those bites for ya.
I crank with straight fluoro and use it on my jerkbait rod. That’s it. I just don’t want to respool every rod, every season. I can also switch from 12 to 20lb leader depending on the situation. FG knot isn’t hard. There’s a very boat friendly version of it you can watch on RUclips. Also Seth Fieder’s version is slip proof. I’ve fished Mohave and Havasu with it and had no issue getting bit. It makes sense to use straight fluoro in certain situations and it also makes sense to use straight braid. For everything else... there’s braid to fluoro or braid to mono(which I also love doing in certain situations).
Interesting ideas. I use both straight flourocarbon and flourocarbon to braid. Depends on the situation. You can achieve more casting distance on flourocarbon by using higher quality lines.
Why not the best of both worlds . I fill my spool halfway with 10lb braid & then anothe 50-80 yards of 8lb fc & I get the same advantages saving a lot of money
This is the way. I guess this would be braid backing instead of what Randy is talking about but I’m 100% with you. Even made a video saying the exact same thing!
Thank you for the advice. I will take this into consideration
Thank you for the video 🤠
Thanks for the insight and experience. Something to consider
Straight Fluorocarbon on spinning reels suck in my experience as well. Line was always getting twists and knots in it... even tried a barrel swivel with a 18 Inch or so leader to my texas rigged whatever or flukes. It was just a nightmare... switched to straight braid only, and only use moss green. But say I want to use the drop shot... what are your recommendations for doing that? Thanks in advance Randy. 🤙
Randy I agree with you on its fish catching advantages, but I think the reason most use it is due to braid having a longer lifespan on a reel. Flouro wears down faster. The only applications it makes sense for are if you need it to float (for top water) or you need increased sensitivity. But I’ve never understood the sensitivity part for Bass Fishing. I fish Lake St. Clair and the Bass in my lake like to murder whatever you throw at them so the sensitivity part is pointless. I use braid for vertical jigging Walleye on the Detroit and St. Clair rivers only because it’s paramount that I can detect bottom.
Yeah most of us don’t have the privilege of getting spools of flouro.
Yeah I don’t understand the sensitivity neater. I can feel a bite on any line lol.
Exactly! The amount of money I save every year is worth it alone but I also believe in the other advantages as well.
Consider yourself lucky that your bass are so aggressive. They’re lazy turds much of the time here will just inhale it and not move. It can be tough to tell sometimes when they hit, especially if it’s windy and choppy.
I started using braid to fluorocarbon because it helps my wife and son see and manage the line better. Then I realized it helped me a little bit except for jerkbait fishing.
Braid to floro is great because it makes your setup more versatile and saves you money on floro. If you need stronger line you can cut the leader off and go straight to your 50+ lb braid for example. It also gives the the ability to fine tune your setup on the fly based on the fish and line weight you need at the time by changing out your leader line. Also braid last significantly longer on a spool
Randy I tried man. I really did. But I can't get rid of the line twist. And I spool it the right way, and stretch my line and use line conditioner.
I think his ulterior motive is to increase sales of fluoro line..... If people through their fluoro birdsnests in the water, Randy might rethink things.
Did you see any benefits? I made a braid to flouro video a couple weeks ago and I can’t really see the benefits of using straight flouro.
@FullTimeFishing he's right about the benefits. Not having a leader knot, mainly. But I've never had a leader knot break, and it outweighs the amount of line twist and "loops" that are such a pain in the neck. Line management is the reason I use braid to flouro
The Crazy Alberto knot is the best I have found for this. The double Uni consistently fails with lighter line.
P-Line Floroclear is pretty good stuff ! Fluorocarbon coated co-polymer . Casts like mono , and invisible . I use it for mainline and leader line in different situations! Can retie with a palomar knot too without knot cutting it self ! I don’t like tying a knot with 3 standing ends ! I fish primarily in Florida and Floro knots catch grass to much !
That p-line cast a mile !! Lol
my favorite line.... it's on most of my reels
Thank you for the advice 👍
I agree with what you are saying, But after 50+ years of fishing, I tried the braid with mono leader and it does not twist and wad up on my reels. In the last few years, it seems I've been having to change the mono or flurocarbon on my spinning reels every couple trips and baitcasters, not far behind. What's changed with the mono to create all the line memory.
Fishermen from Malaysia. This is my opinion and experience. I use yellow braided line with FC leader on FG knot, for both my Casting and Spinning setup for throwing lures targeting Snakehead and Peacock Bass. Never a problem. The FG knot never fails if tied properly, it is always the mainline breaking first or the FC leader gets bitten or abrasion from gill plates and rocks. I used to fill spools with dark green or black lines so fish wouldn't see line but it really didn't make much or any noticeable difference. I prefer to use bright color lines like Yellow, Red or Blue so it would be easy to track where my line is both when casting lures and when fighting fish in grassy waters, especially during low light conditions. The reason I prefer FC leader is that it cast further (smoother) than Mono and is relatively invisible underwater. FG knot takes practice and patience. Before mastering FG, I was using Albright to connect braid to mono but the bulky knot affects my casting distance and accuracy as the knot bumps the guide rings during the cast. Again, these are my experience. Peace.
What is your favorite flourocarbon for filling a spinning reel? For less wind knots ? In 6 lb line?
Im going to side with the best finesse fishermen of all time Aaron Martens. From what I know he used braid to Floro leader. He was the most detailed angler I had ever seen and if it passed his test then I’m comfortable using it. I don’t discount your opinions but I don’t always agree with them Randy and that’s the great thing about life we don’t have too always agree. Cheers and I hope you catch them this season.
I fished in the bassmaster tour in 2000 and 2001, I remember a couple pros who fished with females would set them up with braid to mono back in the day to help them feel the bite with a drop shot rig.
I fished with Aaron Martins 4 times and I never seen him fish a drop shot with braid!
Absolutely right, I'm an sea surfcasting/ spining fisherman since young, one of the first rules I learned with the older fisherman at the time, NEVER underestimate the fish, soon our baits, weights, hooks, lures and lines hit the water, they will be in contact in the FISH environment, keep it simple, including the baits presentation as simple as possible.
Another rule, if you fish at the sea on the verge of a rock casting near or far in calm and clear water, your presence will spook the fish, specially the biggest fish, only the bait fish will not go to far from you, anyway, cast from a reasonable distance or behind a rock for example. Line colours and braids are important too, if you can fish with line colours matching the waters colour or transparent lines in conttact with water. Keep all the fishing gear as simple as possible.
Very helpful. Appreciate your input. I do only salt marsh fishing (specs, reds, flounder) fishing with a spinning reel and would truly like to go to straight fluorocarbon for the very reasons you're highlighted. One question, how do you feel about adding a fluorocarbon leader to a 20 lb fluorocarbon main line?
I have found no disadvantage using braid to leader on my spinning rods. On my baitcast I primarily used straight fluoro, except for my bait finesse type setups I use braid to fluoro.
I switched to fluorocarbon line just this year. The reason I didn't use it was the fear of tangles on my spinning reel. In January I spooled up a new reel with mono and went out and fished the next day. I had tangles more times than I could count. That week I changed to fluorocarbon. I have not had a single tangle since spooling with fluorocarbon. Not one! Saying that, I also spooled carefully per your suggestions. I will never go back to mono. I fish exclusively in super clear ozark streams, so fish can clearly see line. Fishing with fluorocarbon should really help me this year when targeting smallies. Thanks for the tip! I would have never switched without your tip.
Randy , I have been using leader on braid for 50 years , just the way I was taught to baitcast. Fishing mostly in New Hampshire a leader with braid is a must.
However I can admit to only putting braid on the spinning rods for the last 12 years and it has made a huge difference in castability and made it almost frustration free.
I think you come at this from a different angle than the average fisherman.I get to fish 2-3 times per week during soft water season. Most of us are not respooling with free line every trip so those spinning reels with Fluoro are twisting up and getting memory looping , Braid eliminates that and yes the leader needs to be retied after it has been cut back a few times but not so bad when using a Alberto knot . Alberto knot is much easier to tie in the boat than an FG. As we all know Braid is by far more durable and I usually don't need to respool but one every year or two. Braid saves lures, and cuts weeds. I loose fewer lures with Braid .
I agree that fluorescent or bright colors of braid may be a negative but other colors are available , Green, Black and camo . I will even break up the solid color Braid with a Sharpie for flipping if I don't have camo .
I fish straight dark green or gray brade for most of my tackle and love it. I fish fluorocarbon when it is windy. As a bank angler i like the strenght of braid as well as the sensitivity. I learnt to give the fish a bit extra time before i set the hook in a less manner as i used to with fluorocarbon line. However, i cannot argue with you Randy as you are a pro and i am a teacher at a high school.
I use both. My waters are clear with visibility of 20 feet and more. Only using braid for better long distance hookset and when I have to go through plastic before getting into the fish. Randy points are very valid.
Randy my main concern considering the 2 different line options is that the coils that come off a fluorocarbon. the line twist and coils are difficult to deal with and often mess up a cast whereas with braid you get a clean cast without any spring like coils. With the thinner braid you can use the double unit knot to make the line to leader connection and that's a fairly easy not to tie.
What are your thoughts about the line coiling characteristics of flurocarbon?
Good Evening Mr. Randy, I enjoyed this video on Braid to Fluorocarbon as you discussed on this topic. I respect your insight when you go into detail on ALL your video's! 🙂Keep up the awsome footage! Sincerely, Mr. Carl J. Gwizdala aka "Desperado."
Respect your opinion, but I'll still continue to fish braid to whatever. Changing 10ft of fc or mono if needed isn't hard. A LOT less expensive then respolling my reels so I have full reels. Don't have $$$ to buy lots of fc to change often. But if you're sponsored so be it. I'll save my money on fc for my forward facing sonar......lmao
Here's a detail you fail to mention to 99.9% of your base audience is the cost of a decent flouro. It's not a con to you because I'm sure BaitWRX is giving you a healthy discount. COST. A spool of braid will last me 2 seasons fishing 2 to 3 times a week. Flouro may last 2 or 3 months and at 40 bucks a re-spool for a good flouro....I'll stick to braid/leader. I will agree for moving baits it's a little stiff but for bottom baits it saves me a significant amount of money. We aren't all Pros Randy.
I know this is the oldass video but I'm saying I don't think it's really a reason based technique I think it's more of a style technique and if you like the style of braid the leader. So wouldn't that make the person more confident if they enjoy fishing that style as opposed to just having a reason to do it? I personally like it because it gives me a lot more feel and a lot more confidence in knowing that I don't have to respond my line with fluoro all the way as a main line because I would choose that over braid any day. But I do like the feel of braid I like to be able to have full sensitivity in my rod and seeing how I fish a lot of soft plastics and single hook baits I like to have that feeling. It's basically having your cake and eating it to.
Pros of braid to fluorocarbon
1. It cast farther.. great for bank fishing
2. Braid last longer
3. Better hook-sets with shaky heads
4. Better sensitivity
5. Saves money over time
6. No memory
Cons
1. Fish can see my mainline 10 feet way from the bait and get suspicious 😂.. Fish aren’t that smart. They eat A-Rig’s with 5 feet of stainless steel wire attached to it like a candy chandelier 🤷♂️
I use the Alberto knot, I can tie it in 30 seconds. When I get snagged and break off, it breaks at the lure 99% of the time.. Power Pro Super Slick V2 and Seaguar fluorocarbon combo has served me well. I’ve never had a wind knot with Super Slick V2, but I have with every other braid I’ve used at some point. Thats been my setup for 3 years now on spinning gear, and I fish near 100 days a year. Last season while bass fishing I caught a 10lb hybrid on 10lb line (mainline and leader), everyone knows they pull like a truck!.. That being said, I’m not a fan of braid to fluorocarbon on baitcasters.
I never paid to much attention to the braid or no braid argument and I use braid to leader exclusively because im on a budget and it seriously helps out...both sides of the argument makes complete sense and everyone should use what fits the best for them and I am really at a loss why people get so offended by this, it's insane!
I'm not a tournament fisherman but I do fish a LOT! After years of fishing mono, stepping up to flouro, I switched to braid a couple years ago. I fish straight Power Pro (moss green), no leader. Now I admit I may be too set in my ways but I primarily only fish jig, large plastic worms, and top water. I catch tons of fish on these three and never have had the need to vary away from them. Having said that, I have found that not only do I detect more bites on braid, I also have a higher hookup and landing ratio with it. I think one factor that is missed in the debate of braid vs flouro is the fact that regardless of which one you use, your technique of fishing it has to be adjusted. For example, I learned that the hook set with braid is not accomplished with an aggressive set that is afforded on flouro. You can definitely rip the hook out of a fishes mouth easily because of the lack of stretch. Another thing is that with added sensitivity of braid, setting the hook to quick can be an issue. Just means I had to adjust a bit and be more patient before getting the hook set. As far as the debate on fish being able to see the braid? I don't care if they do or not when I am having more success putting fish in the boat using it! Yes bass are smart but I seriously doubt they see a line in the water and panic because they don't want to get caught! lol
I guess what I'm getting at is that there are tons of different opinions on this topic but it all boils down to what you are comfortable with and what works for you. You may totally disagree with my reasons for using braid and I certainly respect that. If something else works better for you then thats what you should be doing. We are all different.
Unfortunately he doesn't respect you or me. He says as much in the video. Dudes a hypocrite. Hopefully no one using braid even considers switching to fluro bc it's different from person to person
@@rileymcgill9893
I don't think he was knocking braid. I think it was more about using a fluorocarbon leader with braid. I agree with him, this is unnecessary. I use dark green braid (15-20lb not 50lb) most of the time and have no problems what so ever.
Let me start by saying I use braid to floro on almost all of my setups. It is what I am confident in, its what works for me.
I do agree with the statement 'you don't need to use braid to floro.' Growing up we didn't even have braid... and we still caught fish.
In my opinion and experience, it truly comes down to what you are confident in. If you aren't confident in your setup, you won't catch anything. Use what works for you, and be willing to try something new (or old).
I guess it appeals to the guys that only have a couple spinning rods and don’t fish everyday. Very versatile have the option of both. I like the floro leader when I need to get finesse but also like to skip docks with straight braid so it works for me. Randy is the man !
Allow me to overthink this... first: Randy has way more experience than me and I liked the vid; so I will retry straight-flouro (SF). Can't hurt to re-evaluate. Also: Braid makes more noise going through water (bad), though I use long leader...That said, perhaps it was too strong to say "no advantages" of braid-to-flouro (BTF) other than casting. 1) Cost savings. I like Tatsu. A spool of that tho: $$$. 2) Line watching. I know: nice rods reduce need of this in many applications; I still find line watching to be helpful (and fun) as bite indicator, especially with semislack line. Randy is right: does that early bite detection risk early hookset? Might depend on angler and situation, but maybe. Jerkbaits: Randy is right. The delay of SF helps. But I do not use BTF then. 3) Big one: the FUN that the increased sensitivity provides, even when not getting bites let alone when getting bit. I LOVE BTF on a high end rod. No twists, feel everything, fun. 4) Reduced twist. Actually this is #1 to me. Randy must be doing something right, or maybe I fish lures that line-twist more (dropshots, etc). Also, I use spinning gear a bunch... there it is... SF kinda sucks for that: TWISTS. Contra BTF: I use 20ft leaders. If you are using short leaders, Randy's argument on high-vis braid scaring off bites is even more on point. I was once fishing a winter school and couldn't get a bite until the moment that I lengthened my leader and got that braid out of their face. Maybe one gets slightly longer casts with braid but that knot may also hurt the cast. And yeah Randy is right: The hassle and risk of knots is real. I will retry SF, try harder to reduce twist, and re-assess. Maybe a high-vis marker on some of my flouro, where it lands near my rod tip (to regain some hi-vis, like a metered line with the last 20 foot as clear). .... Ha, maybe some RX fishing glasses is the real solution for my old eyes.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge sir.
Totally agree Randy! Tied braid to floro before and just got frustrated with the connection knots!
Necessary? No.
Advantageous? I can make an argument for yes.
Another commenter mentioned cost. Cost effectivenes is the 2nd advantage you've overlooked.
Rod, reel, line, leader. Every one of those is a variable.
You play sensitivity as a disadvantage. But sensitivity is a factor of ROD and line (and to some extent reel and leader too).
I can use less expensive, less reactive, very moderate and forgiving rods and still maintain excellent feel. The same variables factor into stretch and give. I don't tend to lose fish to over-reacting.
I know you use braid too and I surmise that you tie on a fluorocarbon leader using a barrel swivel for some techniques: Three weak points.
Big fan of the channel. Keep challenging us to think. Thanks for all the content Mr. B. Tight lines.
Good talk. I only use braid to leader. LOL I grew up fly fishing and tying my own 4 to 6 part leaders. We would have 4 to 6 different mono sizes that we would tie together to form the leader. I can tie a blood knot and surgeons knot and Uni knots with my eyes closed literally. I have done it many times. But I have never liked Floro had to many bad experiences with it. But I have never tried some of the newer higher dollar Floro. I might give it a try someday.
But for those of us on a budget,…. But I hear you!!!
Braid to fluorocarbon works for me however I do respect your opinion. I've found that the SC knot works well joining the two lines and zero failures to date, just my opinion.
I agree with you on this thanks for your video and good fishing 🎣
The reason I use braid to floro. Is because braid main line will save me several hundred dollars a year in fishing line, bottom line. I've never lost a big fish because my knot failed, matter of fact I've never lost a fish period because my knot broke. I guess if I had the bad luck you've had with knots breaking and if I ever do have that kind of trouble I will change. Until then, I'll be spending money on jerkbaits instead of fishing line. BTW, to say I can't catch a fish on jerkbait with a spinning rod that is braid to floro. Is a very interesting statement. Maybe we can go head to head on that some day.
I tried running straight fluoro on my spinning reels when it started getting popular many years ago, and I hated it. So much memory.
I actually throw jerkbaits on braid to leader and have had 100 plus fish days doing it, rarely losing fish. I use technique specific rods and I’ll dial back my drag. I can bomb my casts and feel the strikes really well at the end of a long cast, and just reeling into them, I get a good hookup. One other thing I don’t like about straight fluoro with jerkbaits is the loops it can leave in the line can affect the baits ability to truly stay motionless on the pause.
As for not changing leaders enough, the distal end of the leader is where you usually get damage from contact with cover or fish’s teeth. I check my knot connection throughout the day, but I’m not typically getting abrasion on the proximal end.
Another technique where I like really long casts is when throwing little paddle tails on light jig heads or Okishira heads. With a Flyssa and 10lb braid I can throw those things a mile and still get a good hookup at the end of the cast.
I saltwater fish alot in the Tampabay area of Florida. I fish around many rocks, oysters and barnacles on the rocks. That's why I use a fluorocarbon leader to my green braid. A Snook will create abrasion to the leader and you will have to change it when it abrasive.
How do you explain saltwater anglers using braid to flourocarbon or mono to catch fish that would make a nice snack out oh a 10# bass.
I think he’s specifically talking about freshwater bass fishing…
This was awhile ago but I think he was making a point that the connection would be a weak point. My point is that catching 100# fish with braid to fluorocarbon and using snaps disproves this weakness issue. The same goes for using a drag and not back reeling. Its not 1973 and we're not using Mitchell 300s anymore. I use my Vanford 3000s for bass and saltwater species. No back reeling.
An advantage to using braid to a slightly lower breaking strength fluorocarbon (or mono) gives the line a place to break when you want to break it. That way you're not leaving some ridiculous length of line attached to a snagged lure junking up the lake bottom.
I use straight braid for deep panfish in gin clear
How do you feel about straight braid for top water? Also something that has baffled me is how a bass will hit an a rig with all the metal and blades. Also treble hooks on jerkbaits. I agree with you and have been making more of a change back to fluoro for many reason you have mentioned. But in my case being a guy that gets out to pleasure fish 4-6 times a month I do find benefit to braid in many ways. Thanks for all the content Randy. You’ve been fishing long enough to make me all ears.
Braid is perfectly fine for top water and crank baits, I only use florocarbon leaders when going after fish like pike and walleye
I can’t argue with most of your points. I mainly use it so I don’t have to deal with line memory
Thank you so much . I hand caught only 6 bass with braid and mono. Going back to 8 lb Florocarbon
I've gone back to straight mono for everything. Just adjust my line strength for different presentation's.
Thank u...I appreciate ur honesty and courage to call out your opinion on this matter...I'm agreeing with u :)
Thanks for the info . This was my first year using braid . But I didn't do a leader , just straight 50 lb braid to texas rig . Seemed to do ok . However I did not use this set up in places I knew would be full of snags.