🌱 WoW Player Reacts to FF14 ULTIMATE DSR - Echo Clear
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
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Fun fact: You can’t let anyone die to Hraesvelgr’s attacks or else he will enrage and wipe the party because he broke his vow to Shiva.
Someone mentioned that
Yoshi P saw that mech and said, let's do that, let's add body checks for every mechanic and TOP was created.
It's worth mentioning that Echo "taking 6 months to clear DSR" isn't 6 months of prog, since both their DSR and their TOP prog had some long breaks in there because this was a side thing and a lot of stuff same up that pulled people away. But it was still real hefty prog.
Also: The "stop dps" call at the end of Purple Thordan (the phase after rewind) is because it's possible to kill Thordan there, but you can't complete the fight if you do, you have to get him to 3% so he falls down and let him get back up+fly away. In the cutscene before the final phase, the two eyes from Estinien spawn + you can't kill them because Haurchefant is alive, so you don't get the buff you need to damage the one that you get in the first version of Eyes phase. Thordan needs to be alive to take the eyes to save Estinien, though he goes Dragon-King in the process.
Would love to see your reaction to a video essay about DSR by Rinon called "The raid that changed FFXIV history", such a good video to get an idea of how Ultimate felt on release from a viewer prospective.
This, 100%. I can't recommend it enough. Absolutely worth the 57 minutes length.
I was just thinking that! Yeah this video's fantastic and a really cool exploration of what this fight was like when it was being progged blind.
yep yep yep
I've rewatched it 3 times now because I enjoyed it so much and it's such a good video. I hope it gets more reaction videos.
It's probably my favorite bit of content to watch these days.
Rinon uploaded the TOP documentary earlier and I watched the whole thing even if I understood ZERO of the mechanics and all that xD
Hey psy, just a RUclips watcher here- but if you’re interested in DSR lore+players reaction, I recommend rinon’s DSR vid. It goes into detail about DSR in game details, touching on DSR mechanics and the tidbits, as well as the prog of the race at the time. Idk if you watched it on stream so that’s why I’m recommending
WoW has test realms before the raids are out so players and pros already know the fight before it comes officially out for everyone. In FF14 it comes out with the patch already tested by devs and everyone progs it blind which makes it a more satisfying prog and experience overall from my experience.
Wow Raider: I did test realms so this is what we do.
FF Raider: THE BOSS IS TWERKING WHAT DOES IT MEAN!!?!? *wipes*
@@NeroLucifarious And thats the fun part, the boss sneezes "wipe"
"Tested" like how top was "tested"? lol
Wow has the test realms and every raid still comes out buggy and needing to be hotfixed. lol
The alternate time line goes
We save Haurchefant, and because he doesn't die, we don't have the same rush to get to azys lla.
This gives time for thordan to figure out dragon controlling tech and he controls vidofnir and friend.
We fight thordan after he is empowered by dragons, and after taking him to the brink of death, he begs for his life.
If we save him or not splits the timeline again. Double Dragon phase happens, but if we killed thordan, someone else happens when we need to save estinein.
Since neither ysale and Haurchefant dies, we don't have their powers to break the eyes control over estinein, and nidhogg revives and kills us.
IF we spare thordan, like in the clear video, he comes in when nidhogs eyes are exposed and he rips the eyes from estinein himself and we proceed to the final phase and finally we put an end to thordan.
It's a really cool "what if" for the dragon song war.
Kind of makes me wonder what consequences this alternate timeline would have for the subsequent expansions as well...
I never bought this alternate story, because we didn't even rush to Azys Lla when Haurchenfant died. We took time to visit Edmont and probably some other stuff (it's been a long time since HW came out). We already know we need to chase the Pope, he's why we even went through The Vault, like would we really just sit on our hands? I don't know why people keep saying this but, then again, people keep asking for Necromancer.
@@Boyzby I don't think this is like the most logical alternative. It's just how the minstrel chose to tell it.
Huarchefant's death did give purpose for the chase rather than anything else.
"I need around 10 minutes from Wipe to pull in WoW".........Meanwhile Me: "Well 10 minutes are around 7-8 Pulls on your first Ultimate Day" 😂😂
more like 20 if you go blind
The heavy mechanics phases where the boss is untargetable is called a “Trio” in the community due to the ones in the first ultimate UCoB being called stuff like “Quickmarch Trio”
You need to watch the Rinon video about DSR launch, it was the biggest community event we got on twitch by a mile, pretty awesome stuff
"Ahh, Haurcefant, it's the bridge where he died"
"Anyways I want to rewind a bit"
Foreshadowing
Something else that's very cool and shows the consistency of the lore, even within mechanics, is that enemies always have the same mechanics. So like, as far back as Coils, but as recent as DSR and the 3rd deep dungeon, dragons have a tendency to do variations of the same mechanics. (Dragons like to do Twisters, Hot Tail/Hot Wing, Dives)
I'd suggest for possible next ultimate reaction watching the fight in one go without analyzing too much to get a big picture first, then have another go with more emphasis on trying to figure out the minor details on the mechanics. Pausing breaks the pacing of the fight so some more intense sections may not seem as intense when you might miss how little reaction time there is figure out what's coming at you. Otherwise pretty neat insight and indeed, ffxiv is harder as twitch chat concluded
agreed. I appreciate the interest in understand the mechanic firsthand, that's half the fun. But I don't think any of his viewers are expecting him to understand it right off the bat with just a few pauses either. It wouldn't be an ultimate if he could simply decode it by rewinding once or twice from a pause and just looking at debuffs, there's more intricacies than just a skim of what's displayed. All in all, good react content, would love to see him prog it someday.
yeah the reasoning to do something because this happens gets missed.
I love how the music is perfectly timed with the combat. This makes the fight much more intense.
Masaki Nakagawa is the developer of ff14 combat, especially Ultimate.
Ultimates are rarely truly blind progged, theyre more comunity progged. If someone finds a good strat on stream other teams usually take them as well. In savage its different, many statics just avoid streams and make their own.
7:40 Don't get too down on yourself for losing some uptime, especially on first clears! Sacrificing uptime to stay alive is always the right choice because not only do you still get downtime while you lay there dead, but you also get that rez sickness stat debuff after Raise, and you lose any job gauge resources which throws off your whole rotation, and all of that is way worse than choosing not to hit the boss a few times lol
I also recommend you take a look at Rinon's video if you are interested in this fight and its impact on the FF community!
And another small comment: you said in the beginning that you need a shield healer for this fight. Actually the best/most cursed healer comp for this fight is double shield healer :D because there are not that much raw healing they can't handle and the extra mitigation they provide is really handy.
Posting this before finishing the video for an explanation about the nidhogg mechanic with numbers.
The numbers indicate in which order you'll get dived by nidhogg's clones, 1 goes first, then 2, then 3.
When you get dived, a tower will appear, the other debuff will tell you where the tower appears (those circles with a white pillar from the center that players have to stand in to soak)
When the cast "Dive from grace" ends, people will get their 2nd debuff, its either "High Jump" (blue circle), "Spineshatter dive" (arrow facing up) and "Elusive Jump" (arrow facing down), these represent where your tower will land, if its High jump, it appears right on top of you, if its Spineshatter, you drop it in the direction you are facing, roughly the boss' hitbox in distance away from you, and if you are Elusive, you will drop it roughly the same distance but behind you.
Who gets each number is entirely random, but overall there will always be 3 people with number 1, 2 people with number 2 and 3 people with number 3, you cant get more than one number
On top of that, each number set will always be either all high jumps or 1 of each, so all 1s could have high jump or each 1 will have either 1 high jump, 1 spineshatter or 1 elusive, when it comes to 2 they will either all have high jump or one will have spineshatter and one will have elusive. There will always be at least one set of arrows but there can be two, thats random.
Now on top of that, Nidhogg is casting either "Lash and Gnash" or "Gnash and Lash", he does this twice during the mechanic and he will do this randomly, he can cast the same one twice or just keep it entirely random, both of this are 3 step mechanics.
Lash and gnash = Stack > Donut-shaped aoe > Point blank aoe.
Gnash and lash = Stack > Point blank aoe > Donut-shaped aoe.
The stack happens immediately after the cast finishes, so after you deal with that, you need to be ready to dodge whatever aoe comes to you, thats where the "in" and "out" calls come into place, if its lash you go in and if its gnash you go out (from the boss).
Thats the idea of the mechanic, the mechanic is timed so the stacks happen at the same time as the dives from 1 and 3 happen, so for the first stack, 1s have to be away, and for the second stack, 3s have to be away.
Hope this helps.
Your video came up randomly on my feed, and I hit subscribe as soon as you said you are going through the content min ilvl and blind. Lots of respect for you, man! I hope you're enjoying your time in FFXIV! Always happy to see players from other MMOs trying FFXIV, and vice versa. Plenty to love throughout the genre!
Soooo happy you reacted to this! It’s an amazing fight. Don’t worry there’s still some cool little environment things to see when you do it
Cool, nice to see your reaction, its cool to see you being able to recognize some mechanics faster now. This ultimate is super interesting, because they went way more direct on the what if story, usually the what if events are a bit vauge and up to interpretation, but this one they changed it up a bit and I think it worked out pretty well. Its very cool to see events that would have happened had we done things differently in the msq.
16:23
That was Dancers Improvisation channel. Its a HoT and, if triggered before it ends, a groupwide shield.
I still love the lore enrage if hrasvelgar kills anyone.
Phase 1: You fight the knights above the vault on the bridge where Haurchefaunt blocks the spear. (All 3 knights at once instead of 1 at a time like the dungeon).
Phase 2: Skips to the Thordan trial fight. A checkpoint starts here since the first phase is reoccurring kind of.
Phase 3: Nidhogg in Dragoon form.
Phase 4: The eyes begin to separate from Estinien. Haurchefaunt and Ysayle's spirits grant you a buff to be able to damage the eyes. Completing this phase sends you back to the last part of Phase 1 where Haurchefaunt is about to block the spear. But you retain the limit break gauge that you were building up from Phase 2 to 4.
Intermission: Failing to time the tank LB3 right and healing Haurchefaunt (letting him die) means you loop back to phase 2, because essentially the time line never changed.
Phase 5: "Dark Thordan". Since Haurchefaunt doesn't die you have less motivation to chase Thordan. He reaches Azys La and is now able to mind control dragons. You find him in the Aery with his knights and some dragons. You have the "choice" of killing him or letting him live below 3% of his HP here. This matters for later.
Phase 6: Hraesvelgr and Nidhogg together. Controlled by Thordan. After defeating both, the eyes again separate from Estinien. This time, as Haurchefaunt and Ysayle are not dead, their spirits never come back to give the the buff to damage the eyes. If you let Thordan live in Phase 5, he jumps in, killing Estinien and absorbing the eyes for himself. If you killed Thordan, you are unable to kill the eyes and die to enrage.
Phase 7: Dragon-king Thordan. This one is pretty obvious. After Thordan is killed for good, the result is you saved Ysayle and Haurchefaunt, but Hraesvelgr and Estinien were killed instead.
We like to meme on Echo for that 6 months clear, but in reality they took a looong break from progging in the middle, i think Scripe took a parental leave since he just had a child born, then a couple folks from this prog group participated in some WoW events, so they took a break from ff14 too... So overall it took them a couple weeks, still a lot, but not as bad as 6 months 🤣
appreciate how much time you take to "digest" the fight as you call it, so many reacters just skim through and don't care to learn or understand anything
Nidhogg and Thordan are generally considered some of the greats of the extremes. Zurvan's generally thought of as one of the worse ones, precisely because there's stuff you can miss even on MINE - makes it feel like it wasn't quite tuned properly.
There's only one low point in Stormblood as far as Extremes design, so by and large it oughtta be a blast for you.
When bosses become unattackable is the best time to snack on some tasty /riceball Ultimates truly are unfair with their difficulty denying you vaulable snacking time by needing to move.
(edit: just got to the part of the video where someone in stream explained it! im leaving the comment though since i already typed this all out > . < )
for the estinien phase with the limit cut you asked about, basically the numbers tell you what order you are dropping the towers at (when the estinien clones dive on you they leave a tower someone has to soak or you wipe) and the 2nd debuff people get will tell you where the tower will be dropped.
if the arrow is pointing down it will drop about the distance of the boss' hitbox behind you, an arrow up is the same but in front of you, and then the circle is directly on top of you. for that mechanic you basically have to drop 3 towers at east, west and south of the boss's hitbox if youre 1 / 3, and then if youre 2 you drop it at NW/NE of the boss. during each drop everyone else not that number has to be north of the boss to soak a stack too, and the numbers also assign you to which tower you need to soak
usually limit cut numbers tell you multiple things, you will see later on as you go further through the game. as they are used to not only tell you when you are executing said mechanic, but also when you need to do another mechanic. e.g. if youre 1 and an E/W tower drop, you have to soak the respective NE/NW towers the 2 players drop, if youre S 1 tower, you soak the S 3 tower.
another layer of RNG ontop of all that is your position for E/W/S, the only way to figure out where you are is agreeing on a priority system among the group, usually the circle has priority south, but then its free reign for the E/W players so you have to hope everyone is quick with deciding.
as you can tell it can get quite confusing! and its a mechanic thats really easy to mess up especially if you have an arrow, since the DPS check is tight you cant just stop dpsing and face away too long, you have to aim it right before it drops. but if youre facing a bit off to the side youre likely doomed since the IN/OUT mechanic happens at the same time (its RNG if its in and out (lash and gnash) or out and in (gnash and lash) which is why he calls it out)
overall though its one of my most favorite phases from any fight in the game, its punishing but fun to execute correctly!
"This is the best song in the game." Answers is gonna come for your head.
The difference in difficulties is since FF14 fights are 8man: more agency on the individual, lots of mechanics all 8 have to do it correctly. Great breakdown though.
Hope you keep enjoying your playthrough of 14
yes please I'd love a compilation of all your extreme clears! I'm in and out of stream all the time so I miss bits and bobs here and there.
Kudos to Echo for progging this for six months and still keeping it blind. Must have taken a lot of self-control.
One of the better WoW Players reacting to this. Quite good instincts on eyeballing what was happening to them based on what you would've experienced thusfar. Kudos.
nice reaction, one of the best in YT because you try to understand the mechanics and all
Ultimate fights in FFXIV are on another level. You just wipe and learn, it is not about gear it is about just knowing the dance.
Ultimate fights are supposed to be really hard. Just look how Omega broke everyone including the hardcore lol. People say like "well, wow is like FF14, each one has their own extremely difficult fights" The thing with wow is that you can use add ons AND practice that fight. In ultimate you go in blind, with no add-ons (allegedly)and you are forced to learn the fight and wipe x1000 times
Sekiro 🤝 Ultimate
FF14's Ultimates, Unreals , and even some Savage raids, are 100% harder than anything WoW has to offer. Mainly cause your knowledge of the fight and the entire party knowing their role perfectly is the main thing that decides whether you clear or wipe. Especially since you're limited to 8 people, so the individual responsobility is much higher.
The best part is that its all 100% optional. You're not missing out on anything other than bragging rights and cosmetics by not doing these.
And even then, more casual players have the much more manageable Extremes if they want to dip their toes into harder content.
You should definitely react to TOP. Its even more insane and difficult to clear. So difficutl that we have made SIMs entirely focused on mechanics to learn and clear it. I have done them all and TOP definitely takes the crown in difficulty.
30:30 it has to do with fight design. If you have the boss targetable here, your melees are either forced to not have uptime if they have to run away from the boss (which can change DPS requirements for enrage), or you have to design the fight to be full uptime which limits what you can do with an encounter. Some fights suffer from the boss being taken away as that could make the fight harder, but that's just the masochist in me. It does feel bad in P6 in this fight when depending on the divebombs you can just be forced to have downtime *sometimes*. Something like P3 in TOP is full uptime, but the boss is MASSIVE so it's basically dummy rotation on an infinite sized target, which is lame imo. That's why P3 Nidhogg in DSR is such a crazy good mechanic, full uptime and crazy mechs.
Yes dude, upload all the EX clears! \o/
I hold Dragonsong Reprise Ultimate to still be the best fight in the game. There are a lot of things I love about each Ultimate, but nothing hits quite like DSR showing us a completely new reality that might’ve happened potentially. It’s absolutely phenomenal.
Man, just wait till you get into the Stormblood Ex fights. You gonna love them, you might even rrrrrrrevel in some!
i do remember Asmongold actually almost break on Thordan because how brutal the fight is
probably if you do want to go blind you need a static commitment to it because Ultimate is the hardest difficulty in the game its so hard that Echo even have to take a break form it and go back to WoW to do the race.
To be fair, he was doing Thordan Extreme with minimum iLv and no Echo. So he technically beat the hardest possible version of that fight, aside from doing it Solo.
And, yeah, Ultimates are basically the video game equivalent of bashing your head against a brick until one or the other breaks.
I cannot express how much I would loath being in a group run by someone who gets to 2% and goes "nah just wipe because I don't feel like I understand the fight as much as I should"
I think it's different when 7 people are there for that 1 person to see and experience the fight. If you were in an ultimate clear and wiped at 2% to "see more of the fight" that'd be ridiculous
there's zero reason to not clear and just queue again. like the "we cleared, but I wanna get better so we're doing it again" perfectly fine with me. calling a wipe on a pull that will clear right before the clear is the epitome of wasting everyone else's time.
Yes please upload extreme trial kills!!!! Even do multiple videos if you can't kill in one session!
I dunno of it was mentioned but when your fighting Nidhogg and Hraesvelgr if Hraesvelgr kills a party member he will go mad from breaking his promise to Shiva and 1 shot the rest of the party one by one.
Ultimate players are amazing
The editing on this is really bad, does anyone have the complete vod link?
Im kind of disappointed that the Warring Triad didn't get to be a Ultimate
Yo where you get that otter snuggie?
haha im here a lil early
Ffxiv is harder than wow nodders.
drachen lachen
I like the ideas of ultimates, but locking major story content behind an activity only 1-2% of the community can do is so effing stupid. 😊
@@StunEdgeDstill, keep the gear locked behind the hardest difficulty, but let the fights be doable at a much lower difficulty with checkpoints for people just wanting to experience it/ to practice
It's not the canon story, it's a "what if this other thing happened INSTEAD" situation.
Is just so annoying that you keep pausing and going back, can you just go throw the whole thing once and talk about it...