London-Made Lorenzonis Repeating Flintlocks
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- / forgottenweapons
A 7-shot repeating handgun before cartridges had been invented? Yep, long before. These two pistols are London-made examples of the Lorenzoni system, in which a gun was made with internal magazines of powder and projectiles and a rotating central loading spindle like a modern reloading powder throw. By rotating a lever on the left side of pistol 180 degrees and back, a shooter could load a ball into the chamber, load powder behind it, recock the action, prime the pan, and close the frizzen all in one automated sequence.
This system originated with a German gunsmith named Kalthoff in the mid 1600s, but it was an Italian by the name of Lorenzoni who made it more practical and began building pistols of the type. Lorenzoni is the name that has been generally applied to the system as a result. These two were made by a gunsmith named Glass in London in the mid 1700s - in these days of hand-made firearms ideas and systems like this would slowly spread and be adopted by craftsmen who were capable of producing them and thought they could find an interested market for them.
The Lorenzoni system offered unmatched repeating firepower for its time, but was hampered by its complexity. Only a very skilled gunsmith could build a reliable and safe pistol of the type, and this made them very expensive.
Another example of a Lorenzoni pistol: • Lorenzoni Repeating Fl...
/ forgottenweapons
The Flintglock
Underrated Comment.
The folt
Can't even imagine cleaning this thing. Would have to have precision tools to do that (well for that time at least, tool set as much as gun set)
@@davephillips9389 A set of wire brushes is really all you need, ranging from barrel scrubs to q-tip style scrapers. Probably custom made for each gun. Probably wouldn't take much longer than 20-25 minutes, as compared to the 3 minutes it takes to clean firearms today lol.
@@Mygg_Jeager And the internals that will get fouled and you need the tools to take it apart :)
"Pull the lever, Kronk!"
*Lorenzoni explodes*
"Wrong LEVERRRRR"
Why do we even *have* that lever!?
LOL
I'm imagining pirates drooling over this gun in a 1700's gun magazine.
I'm sure some got it mail ordered too. Lucky dogs! Probably also mounted their tactical lanterns to blind their enemies with a strobe effect.
Dave Smith Don't forget the under mountd cutlass.
@@indiomoustafa2047 yarr, in camo gold! Just like me ship, so that the scurvy dogs won’t find me
I can imagine them arguing about shot placement and "those new Italian wonder-36-bores".
Louis L’Amour’s Barnibus Sackett liberated two of these from a pirate hoard. His son Jubal used them.
Those novels take place in the 1600s .
I'm waiting to hear Ian say this: "Next week, I'll be showing you a gun that I bet you have never heard of. It was made in 1705, it's a development of the Lorenzoni system that is self cocking via a gas pressure system. Yes, it's a full auto, wheel lock, from 1705. The inlay and engraving is out of this world. See you next week, here on Forgotten Weapons."
ruclips.net/video/rCuVMx5h1x0/видео.html
@@dmitryskliarenko2451 NGL I’m kind of disappointed this isn’t a rickroll.
@@dmitryskliarenko2451 damn, I expected it to be those weird Muslim video from bots, but it turned out to be a Forgotten Weapons video
@@hoppinggnomethe4154 I know right? The f*ck is up with all those? Lol
It's fascinating to me how these guns would have been made by hand, without power tools or electricity. I wonder how many hours of effort went into each of these guns, not even counting the decorations.
i would love to buy this if they re make this with today tools
Robert Hooke was making watches in the late 17th century. Precision machining was starting to be doable bootstrapped by horologists making machines to make it easier to make better machines to make watches. Amazing achievement still.
I think it's quite likely that many gunsmiths were using water power for some operations (from a wheel in a creek or river) for a couple hundred years before steam engines. so there were SOME power tools, probably including saws, primitive lathes, and mills. it's already massively helpful to just be able to make something spin with some force to ahape round parts as if you were wood turning, as opposed to trying to make something round without rotating it.
@@Ass_of_Amalek And don't forget the common potters wheel and wood lathe, powered by assistants using foot pedals.
I'm pretty sure they would've used water wheels.
"The gun will then explode, and do really bad things to your hand."
lol I love it when he points this stuff out
South paw problems.
@@andrewlaco1776 As in you'll be a southpaw after a poorly-made example takes your right hand (or at least some fingers) off? Yeah, probably.
@@AtlasJotun There are no historical accounts of these ever exploding. They required a Trade Guild's Seal of a
Approval before you were allowed to commission and make these kinds of weapons. And over the centuries, dozens of Gunsmiths produced hundreds of them, seeing service in the Danish Military during the Scanian War.
I love how Ian typically uses the RUclips-friendly phrase "...and then bad things happen to whoever the barrel is pointed at". This was a great reversal!
"From this side, it looks like your typical
assault-lock repeating side clipazine"
@Love Law He's making a joke about anti-gunners.
@@lucifer2b666 im 93% sure this was a joke about how insanely complicated this mechanism is.
@@malo9792 Nope, definite fudd pisstake.
So it's an assault flintlock?
On a more serious note, that really is an amazing piece of craftsmanship and ingenuity.
Fully semi-selfloading.
What's the earliest firearm you've seen?
The very early firearms developments are so interesting, especially during the 16th century; mug cartridge breech-loading guns - only ever seen the degraded salvage from the Mary Rose (triple barrel cannon, swivel guns, some lantern shields that apparently contained pistols).
I know this question was meant for Ian, but in case it's of interest...
The earliest firearms we see around here regularly are typically matchlocks (more often of Japanese design), though we do also receive some hand cannons from time to time.
You could use these in a screen adaptation of Louis L'Amour's book "Jubal Sackett." L'Amour had a fondness for putting rare and unusual historical firearms in his books -- in one he has the protagonist acquire a Ferguson rifle, and in another, the main character uses a Walch 12-shot revolver. In "Jubal Sackett" the titular character, who is a 17th century frontiersman, has a matched pair of Lorenzoni pistols, though the ones in the story were made by an Italian, rather than an English gunsmith.
I'd love to see someone make a reproduction Lorenzoni, but given the complexity, and given how closely fitted the parts have to be to prevent a flashover from igniting the powder magazine (and the attendant liability concerns) we probably never will see it happen.
You forget that aircraft engine precision is a thing. We could easily manufacturer these in a factory environment to 0.0001" of precision, lol.
@@Mygg_Jeager Easily to .1 mil precision, that is an exaggeration. 1 mil of precision is fairly easy, beyond that is specialized equipment. But, 1 mil is way more precision than is necessary for this, so agree that they can be fairly easily produced.
@@Mygg_Jeager I don't forget anything. I understand that kind of precision is possible. But I also understand that the United States is the most litigious society on earth in the 21st century. I think a company's lawyers would take one look at this and say "nope," just because of the _possibility_ of flashover, and what would happen if it occurred. Everyone is terrified of liability these days. If there were enough market demand, it might very well overcome that fear, but most people, even ones knowledgeable about firearms, have never heard of the Lorenzoni system, and people can't demand what they don't even know about, so....
@@Hibernicus1968 Well now you're just talking out your ass because there are companies that manufacture functional replicas of these, in the EU and USA.
@@Jeremiah90526 If by "specialized equipment" you mean gyro stabilized CNC machines, then yeah. Those are kinda everywhere in the 21st century lol.
Every modem shop has at least 1, often 2 or 3.
Hypothetically this would make loading very easy. There's no need to pre-pack a pistol cartridge, bite, spit, pour into the pan, then down the barrel, stuff, ram, return, then give fire. If one carried a flask of black powder, and a sack of loose ammunition balls then they could probably within 20 seconds about the time it took to load one musket, already have 7 shots and powder reloaded. Perhaps adding the additional side mounted belt prong clip to put it away, or a sheath for it, & even a spring loaded bayonet. This could be a very nice close quarters weapon. I could definitely see this on some sort of noble officer in the grenadier guards or something.
provided at time frame, there was a bunch of experienced gunsmiths in order to manufacturing that hypothetically self loading black powder rifle, and of course any party wanting to pursues the said rifle have to be exremely rich. Which means, the self-loading rifle would a specialized items, means to provided nothing sort of King's man bodyguard corps.
@oron61 he explained why. It was expensive to make and required a master gunsmith to make it or else it was unsafe to fire.
you are not meant to spit in any step of the loading process. why would you want to risk making the powder wet?
@@luansagara He's referring to paper cartridges containing the loading components, which were generally torn open with one's teeth. One would then spit out the bit of paper on the ground. Here's a crusty old potato-vision video from 2007 of a chap with a Brown Bess demonstrating the technique quite rapidly:
ruclips.net/video/SJMbxZ1k9NQ/видео.html
@@luansagara You need to spit the paper out of your mouth and on to the ground.
Ingenious system. I wander why was it never perfected, this system could be used to completely avoid any casing on the bullet!
Things get forgotten and cast aside when they shouldn't be sometimes.
@@TheZombieburner true
Maybe some issues on thr battlefield. Remember first prussian rifles wich they wanted as single shot to not cover doir view with to much powder smoke.
@@shibo8707 and the fact that paper Dreyse cartridges don't do well in a magazine? It was improved, they're called "kammerlader" (chamber loaders). having a cartridge loading, single shot weapon, or a revolving cylinder of chambers was much cheaper and safer than this, and took inspiration from the rotating breech idea. Revolvers took some inspiration from this idea, with Wheeler & Collier patent flintlock arms (which , in turn, inspired Sam Colt, who's improvements inspired the Wesson Bro's, Adams, and the Remingtons). Post 1770 or so, intellectual property rights became a big deal, and commercial firearms development basically revolved around everyone chasing each other's improvements and working around patents or waiting for patents to expire, and then adopting that improvement. That is why most commercial firearms designed after 1950 or so are almost identical in function and design, the patents are expired and everyone is using everyone else's improvements.
well, besides the issues of safety and machining quality mentioned in the video, I'm sure you can load cartriges or even hand-load single shots much more precisely than by relying on gravity to fill a consistent amount of powder without visually checking it, so the lorennzoni system probably delivers pretty inconsistent velocities and thus bad accuracy or sometimes even insufficient penetration.
Those things sometimes converted themselves from firearms into grenades
Rarely, as they were only made by the best gunsmiths.
@@powderslinger5968
How would we know? For self explanatory reasons, there are no surviving examples of cheaply made pistol-grenades... ;)
@@Mygg_Jeager because they have no such reputation, the pistol might blow up but the beople around the shooter and maybe even the shooter survive
@@kino_61 So I've read about these extensively and there are absolutely zero reported instances of these exploding.
Between 1620 - 1730, there was an absolute minimum of 19 recorded gunsmiths who were recognized and certified to produce these weapons for elite military units of the Danish Empire and Holy Roman Empire. They've even been documented as having been used in the Scanian War, with no reported failures.
It seem reasonable to extrapolate that there simply were NO cheap varieties of these having been made, as it required a Guild or Trade Seal of Approval to commission and fabricate them. These were top notch weapons for top notch soldiers, and came at a top notch price.
I would imagine that a high humidity day would probably cause the powder to clump some if the pistol hadn't been freshly loaded. :)
Or, god forbid, actual rain.
Those are fantastic. It’s hard to comprehend the workmanship it took to make something so intricate in pre- industrial Europe.
This is the most ingenious gun I've ever seen for the 18th century, it's like a bullet maker lol.
Funny how the ingenuity of people who've lived hundreds of years ago can still amaze you today. First time I've ever seen that system explained and while the mechanics involved are pretty incredible, I gotta agree that this doesn't seem like the safest firearm (for the shooter). I wonder how common accidents were with these types of guns and what they would've been used for. I can't imagine this being an effective weapon in combat - I'd worry about the magazine "leaking" or the mechanism jamming or, indeed, about the gun blowing up in my hand. Plus it was probably way too expensive for the common soldier.
It was probably a well understood dangerous mechanism. But when you're in a situation where you need multiple shots and the only real option at the time is to carry 2 or 3 pistols... or one of these and perhaps a sword in addition it'd probably be worth it to the rich able to afford it (not to mention confuse his opponents after he discharges his single barrel pistol and then proceeds to shoot at them again).
This was actually a common strategy as repeating rifles came into their own; you fire one shot, the enemy charges, you use the rest of your shots to drop them.
Elegant, ingenious - that's what I love about the design and engineering you so brilliantly demonstrate and explain on this channel.
Messier Lorenzonis, thou art a genius!
And Messier Ian , I humbly raise my hat and bow in astonishment! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
The cookson rifle was demonstrated by cookson in a thunderstorm to show it was waterproof, he was then struck by lightning after 3 shots
Like a cannon you'd have to make sure that it was completely extinguished Sono burning embers remained when you introduce the fresh powder to the chamber
My grandma was a Kaltoft, a direct descendant of the Kaltoft you cite. So fun to see the mechanism etc
this is incredible! I had no idea that any repeating Flint/wheel lock firearms even existed!
Those flintlocks are amazing masterpiece IMHO.
Most early verison of auto guns bruh this guy master at work
This is so mind blowing.. imagine this is the result of a single gunsmith not a corporation or anybody today who already knows the concept of repeating firearms.
Well, the concept was around for one hundred years before this example was made...
This is the "Forgotten Weapons" video that I've enjoyed most so far, and I've seen quite a damn lot of them they're great. Very interesting.
+Forgotten Weapons Heh, what a coincidence. I've been talking with a friend just yesterday and we got down to not being able to figure out why there were no repeating or revolving mechanisms around, to help with the whole muzzle-loading early guns. From a technical point of view, the mechanics and principles should have been known and understood since at least when the Antikythera mechanism was built and it seems painfully obvious to offload the long loading cycle to a mechanism, resulting in an increased RoF, especially in military terms. Thanks for providing the answers to the question we never asked to you and also supplying an example of such a potential mechanism at the same time. You are awesome. And apparently a psychic ;)
Lindas verdadeiras obras de arte.
Ha, only a week ago i asked for a video of the Kalthoff rifle/musket, and here i have it! Well not a kalthoff, but darn close! You deliver the goods, Ian!
So I take, from the Dannebrog in your thumb, that you know of the 50 'kunstrør' ('artsy pipes' ) that 'Tøjmester' Kalthoff (Master of the Royal Armoury) in Copenhagen produced for the Royal Guards on Foot in 1658 used agains the attacking Swedes? And that the Royal Guards discarted them as 'being to fickle'? Did you check the video from Tøjhusmuseet, about the Kalthoff?
If you hafe an interest in the periode, 1657-60, I would love to chat.
Guns like these make me want to start collecting guns.
Don't do it! They're like potato chips but worse lol!
You can't collect *just* one...
Wow that's an amazing piece in terms of mechanisms and the artwork!
Amazes me that such contraptions could be made to work at all.
That degree of ingenuity is just amazing ! What a tremendous advantage it would give someone in those days ! I'm truly awestruck ! ! ! THANKS
🙂😎👍
Excellent video Ian (as usual). I once owned a Ruger Old Army cap and ball revolver and I always made sure that there was an ample amount of Vaseline covering each loaded port in the cylinder so as to prevent flashback, thus igniting any other chambers that shouldn't have been ignited during firing. I don't think I would feel comfortable using a firearm like the abovementioned without the thought going through my head regarding such 'flashback'. I'm happy that you brought up this point during the video. Great work and thanks for your wonderful videos. I've even put links to your RUclips channel on my website because of your great information for firearms enthusiasts like myself.
There's a reason it didn't catch on.
the Kalthoff repeating muskets (not rifles) were manufactured by the Kalthoffs, a Danish gunsmith family in an area of slesvig-holstein, that is now a part of Germany. At the time, that area was Danish.
I would love to see a video on the Kalthoff repeating muskets if you guys can get your hands on one, there is very little information on these guns online, and the mechanism is quite stunningly genius. Most beautiful gun I've ever held
I would like to, but I've never seen one in person.
@@ForgottenWeapons There's also one in Livrustkammaren, a museum in Sweden. There's another one in Windsor Castle.
Yes, that is correct. They originated from the Kultenhof Estate near Dänischehagen in what is today the northwestern part of Germany. I'm in fact an ancestor of that metallurgy specialist family of foundry owners and gun smiths. (Kolthoff / Kalthoff - different branches of the same family). I've never seen one of those rifles myself. The ones still existing today are either royal collectables, museum pieces or both. The ones I know of are in Denmark, Sweden, Russia and England. My guess is there are probably a few less known specimens in Germany and France too, although unconfirmed.
Anyway - just wanted to say thank you to Forgotten Weapons for mentioning my family and keep up the good work!
@@Andraanwish granted
Love that reference there, Ringo. Best channel on RUclips.
The progression of firearms that led up to repeaters is fascinating.
with guns like this that have some way of internal loading and the lead ball rolls free how do they stop the ball rolling out of the barrel when its tilted
The ball stops when it hits the rifling, until the pressure of firing presses it down the barrel.
@@ForgottenWeapons I had wondered whether these were rifled, or if they simply had a slight 'shoulder' between the chamber and barrel, as on the screw-barrel pistols.
This gun is amazing especially for the 1700s, I wonder how well they actually worked. Seems like a lot of things could go wrong for a system that has so much going on.
Mommy, I want to buy an Ian, heard there's going to be a everything auction in RIA!
Wow. This was a brilliant idea for the time. A multiple shot flintlock! Who would’ve thought?!
3:06 LoL the funniest part "they don't wanna let me load emo up in here..
This is amazing never knew about this kind of system and always wondered if they did try to make some sort of repeating firearm before the 19 century. It seems like everything that's ever been done with firearms has been tried before, thanks Ian
This is freaking genius
Semi auto assault flintlock. Lol this one of the coolest things I've seen
Well, lever action assault flintlock.
Those seem like they were literally 100 years ahead of the technology of the time, awesome engineering, never seen this style anywhere before!
This is without a doubt my favorite channel.
Beautiful pair of pistoles for sure.
that's really cool! I thought the Henry was the first repeater, though I'm happy to know that they had actually make a flintlock repeater
other guns:
complex loading and feeding mechanisms
this gun:
G R A V I T Y
I found it interesting how I was watching this video amazed with the ingenuity of the pistols on a cell phone I don't give a second thought to.
Workmanship was just insanely beautiful back then. We've lost a lot through mass production
This is the stuff I love, the genius simplicity of it.
Loved the tombstone ref
A superb explanation......makes me wish I could own one...and of course Iain at the same time......
This is a super cool design.
Heard of these. Nice to see them. Best
That is amazing tech. Beautiful weapon.
Hot gas can not leak backwards around the spindle to the powder magazine because recoil press the spindle to the rear side of the round slot and locks the gas. It's a self obturation system like on a Sharps rifle. This is a very clever and robust design.
If it works like the Sharps system, they it *usually* works properly. :)
upside down Sharps system because it doesn't prevents gas escape between barrel and spindle but prevents gas escape between spindle and magazine :-) But I think that even gas escape between barrel and spindle was minimal due to the precise fit. By the way Lorenzoni system pistol was produced also Russian gunsmith Alexey Surnin
After one set loads fired, this intricate system would take some hours of thorough cleaning. But. many of these fancy guns were never used, they were "show off" guns, as are many modern ones, too.
Wonderful look at a unique gun, thanks for the update on a gun not often seen.
Very cool. I was completely unaware of these.
since i saw your first video about that gun some years ago, i always wondered about the priming charge :D
thank you very much for a second view on guns like these!
wow that's a pretty ingenious mechanism for the time, great video
i am surprised they did not go for more, just cause they are so rare, and unusual.
There's a guy here on RUclips who has made a repeating .22 somewhat like this but with electrical ignition. It's really pretty cool
This is like designing a robot to shift gears for you in your stick shift rather than designing an automatic transmission.
I was actually just thinking of doing something like this a few weeks ago; chambers on a gun for powder and bullets. My idea would not have been this elegant. Good to know it was pre-patent, so I can just copy their method. he he he
A work of art
awesome vid. i wanted to ask that perhaps another reason the spindle is brass is to prevent any unwanted sparks?
Here's a thought: add a rack-and-pinion, to a reciprocating forearm. Slide-action flintlock.
I love it when you have the chance to do those more esoteric weapons. Do you think those could have been ordered for dueling since there is a pair of them?
Perhaps though not likely. Dueling often had numerous rules involved that often changed by location and even per combatants. That said, shots of opposing duelists often happened in rounds, the number varying for the offense. Sometimes only a single volley was exchanged. Repeaters would've thrown a big wrench in either scenario.
Why have a dueling weapon that is designed to allow for "rapid" fire?
+Jorvard I suppose it certainly would have made things more interesting.
Maybe to shoot the opponents second so as to avoid any further negotiations of rules? (jk)
One ball for every time your honor was offended that day. And everyone knows that for an English Gentleman, that could still not be enough.
Finally, a British weapon.
A British weapon...apparently designed by a German and perfected by an Italian...
+Joel TheJackle rekt
+Joel TheJackle thats cold.😂
There are tons of British weapons on Ian's channel - he's got about four different Webley semi-autos alone.
@@ironanvil1 you mean consealed attack-pliers? That's what's the brits carry these days (the poor bastards) www.dailywire.com/news/29224/heres-what-london-police-recovered-weapons-sweep-paul-bois
I think this is in fact a matching pair for one person to use - since you need both hands to operate it with that lever, a mirror image for left-hand-use is out of question I think
I have one of these from my heritage. Thinking of donating it to a museum or sell it. Unsure. It's covered in silver lines.
I see another potential problem and that is possibly having a air space between the powder and projectile which can create a gun kaboom as well.
Simply amazing! I'd never heard of anything like this, just brilliant!
From shooting flintlocks I struggle to believe this would work for more than a few shots before the fouling totally seized all the systems up.
....personal weapons of a 17th century rambo
That's a SNAPHANCE of an idea, so early on. It would prove to be right up there with a Monty Python dueling sense of humor. That is to say, if given the proper distance between duelist, as to allow misses between feverishly winding shots. -gilpin 9-7-16
I can totally see both being worn on a sash/belt across the chest for a right hander, and if you needed to you could fire one, then the other, and have sometime to duck behind cover to cycle their actions.
The amusing thing is that a pair of pistols is usually a dueling set. Would have been QUITE a duel with both contestants firing off five to seven shots, fiddling and cursing at their levers and shaking their guns to every which side feverishly.
I found this to be fascinating, I'd never heard of anything like this before. It would be interesting to know how must faster this would be to load versus a single shot flintlock pistol of the same time period. Given the age of these two I'd rather use a modern replica to do the test. Regardless, thanks for sharing these pistols, very interesting.
Thats exactly how a rotary powder measure works. I wonder which came first?
I bet they are a pain to clean!
Probably in the midst of a battle, one discharged all of the shots of one gun with the right hand, and then "holstered" it in one's belt, before, still with the right hand, taking the second gun to discharge all of its shots. That might be why they aren't mirror images: they're not supposed to be used simultaneously but one after eachother, because one single pistol needs both hands to be operated.... but yeah that'd have been cool :)
Cool design.
A bit complicated but very interesting design. I wonder if internal friction of the cylinder rotation might cause the powder storage to ignite. But very interesting! Nice video!
imagine a rifle with the lorenzoni system and the Wheel lock them gether, that would have been an amazing gun
Can barely believe these guns were actually used. Even with modern machining techniques it would be very easy (I think) for a spark to reach that powder magazine.
I think it's funny there was a rifle version of this from around the 1600s but ohhh the founding fathers could never have predicted that guns would shoot faster.
It's great to be a subscriber to such a cool channel. Keep up the awesome work you do Ian ;)
Why didn't this become a more popular system? It seems like this would be much better than a muzzle loader.
Thats basically saying why doesnt everyone drive Lamborghinis as they are so much better performing than ordinary cars, it simply comes down to cost.
Remember that every single one of these had to be forged, cut, hammered into shape and assembled entirely by hand by some of the best gunsmiths of the time. The sheer level of skill, time and materials that went into each of these guns cannot justify massed issue especially when a single manufacturing flaw wouldve resulted in the gun exploding with the force of a grenade.
fludblud yeah. I made this comment literally 10 seconds before he got to that point in the video. I instantly realized how silly it was. But I was too lazy to delete the comment
wow, what a cool system.
Amazing forward thinking but terrifying. Like holding a grenade.
*steampunk intensifies* Looks something a vampire hunter wouldve carried in those times...
Would love to see Ian in late 19th century clothing and a monocle, next time he reviews a 18th or 19th century oddball like this, or that weird revolver he did on sunday
What keeps the ball from simply rolling out of the end of the barrel?
The rifling.
How does the rifling stop the ball from rolling out?
the rifling is a slightly smaller diameter so it cuts into the ball to make it spin
and since when did muskets have rifling?
I thought these pistols were made in the 1600's and the repos made in the1700's
You would think someone would have tried to make a repeating light cannon out of this mechanism. Might have trouble getting military contracts like the puckle gun though.
The mechanism should be easier to build scaled up, and you could put a beefy spring in the powder and ball magazines to eliminate the need for tilting the durn thing forward.
I bet the failure to fire rate on this thing would be very high nevermind the inconsistency of the charge load
Hey uberti... id really like some of these...
Also vietnam has had some really cool guns throughout history.