I live in the Netherlands. To hear this from people from other countries makes me happy. My dad and my mom both had a full time job while growing up. My dad at night and my mom during the day. So i saw them both a lot. Now my dad is working part time so he can do more fun stuff. Its weird to hear thats not normal in other countries
One thing that is worth mentioning is that next to the equality there is also the discussion of whether men and women actually want the same things. Being equal doesn't mean you're the same. So there is a bit of a stress point between on the one hand getting more women into certain jobs but on the other hand not all women necessarily wanting to do those jobs. I'm Dutch by the way but I think that it's important that women shouldn't be forced to do jobs just so we can put a number on equality. Both men and women should have the same options and opportunities but I think it would go too far if we started forcing people into jobs or choices they don't actually want to make. That's why I'm against this idea of 50/50 in every job because some jobs you will have more women and some you will have more men. We just need to make sure that the reasons for that difference are a matter of personal choice and not because of a lack of opportunity.
I agree. It should me equality of opportunity but not equality of outcome. Forcing someone in a jab just to get equal outcome is't how you want equality.
@@paolagrando5079 Sometimes when people are out of a job and receive welfare, they have to apply to or do any job that is available, otherwise they loose (part of) their payments.
This is something that makes me feel proud of my country, the Netherlands that is. I really love this channel; you folks make such influential material.
Research in Norway shows that the more the genders have equal opportunity the more gender specific choices in education and jobs become. Care is a career mostly choosen by women and engineering mostly by men, given a free choice. So the end of the video "we are not there yet" seems nonsensical to me because we have not defined where we want to be. To me it should be that we want people to have a free choice independent of gender. True equality is not possible because of biological and cultural gender differences, but I believe we have attained the highest level possible in freedom of choice.
Perhaps the pay gab will be closed when men start to work more parttime as well. The pay gab for women in higher educated jobs is a bit weird since usually you are able to set the salary you want. If I was a woman I think I would just tell in job interview you want the same salary as a man in that position. If that is a problem then this is probably not the company for you....
In my opinion Jelle is spot on with this comment. At least in the Western world. You can not add all the salaries of men together and then add all the salaries of women together divide them by the number of people in each group and say see there is a difference. It doesn't work that way. You have to look at choices the men and women make and then say there is a difference. Of course if you take a male doctor and you compare his income with a female worker at McDonnalds, you can not say there is a gender pay gap it's a different line of work. So is the calculation with the gender pay gap it's not based on the different fields of work. The actual difference in the pay gap is due to men working longer hours. I believe the difference is around 7% and the difference of men working more hours is about that amount as well. So basically there is not really a noticable pay gap. So as long as studies are committed in a wrong way the mith of the gender pay gap will exist
It also has to do with the fact that women care more about people, and man care more about things. Hence why women are more likely choose a job where you're involved with closer contact to people and man tend to choose jobs more involving handling things and products.
There is no pay gap in the Netherlands....If you work, in the same job as a man, AND do the same number of hours, you earn the same! Stop saying otherwise and do your research.
What your saying is true only to a certain degree, there are fixed hourly (minimum, depending on age and sometimes experience) wages for jobs like working at the supermarket or a call center. But in many functions in branches like accountancy, enginering, software, nursing etc you can negotiate your salary, and statistically speaking are men often better off by a few percentage points. Fan of Guust Flater here :)
@@beschuitig That's what I'm saying....if women do the same job as men, they earn the same. In your example they are not the same...some men are selling themself better then some women. If you can negotiate better, you are better and if the job is for example a salesfunction, your employer might find that skill helpful and is willing to pay for that. This all can also apply to women, some women can negotiate better then men and get the job.
@Mark Blokland People have the right to their own opinion, people, including you, have not the right to their own facts. The pay gap is a multi factor issue, not male/female.
@Mark Blokland there might be a wage gap but you fail to see why there is a gap. the gap is totally explainable and shouldnt be closed. unless you want to live in a communistic country where there is no incent to make you work harder faster stronger. this has nothing to do with women/men discrimination but more to do with what they are willing to do for their job. thus man and women are equal 100%. so please stop being an asset to destroying equallity!!! go look at the nordic countries,, what you are implying completely failed there.. people are equal but devide themselves by choice.. so no men in teachers positions no men as nurses. getting women on the top manditory would get unqualified people at the top. 1 person in the video had it right.. we are looking for the best person for the job, it doesnt matter who it is.
The pay gap is because men work less in part time and more in full time, which means we accumulate experience faster which also means we have more pay. Also men are more likely to ask for a raise then a woman. Its just facts. Pretty sloppy research for a teacher. The pay gap is a myth in the Netherlands. Other than that, nice video.
And they are working overtime, they are more likely to move for a job, they are generally more ambitious, they are less agreeable. Women are actually privileged in the netherlands. As a man, i'm fine with that, as long as the feminists shut their stupid mouth with their lies and complains.
woman can work as much as they like. men do not judge... women who work 40+ hours dó get questions like "why don't you work 4 days... your husband makes enough"..... by other women. I heard a lot of women colleagues say "I don't have to work here, my partner makes enough money". never heard a man say that
@@marieketeeffelen9095 And most important part of this, I assume, is the communication and support between your parents. That is where a lot starts. =)
@@marieketeeffelen9095 me and my girlfriend both have parttime jobs because we both make enough and it was, tax wise, barely any different between us working 32 or 40 hours. So why work 40 hours if you make roughly the same 32 hours and give up a free day, so your loonstrook just has a slightly bigger number before taxes. (This depends on the scale your salary is in, though). Having kids, this extra day is worth so much more.
@@kitchfacepalm are there any womens groups in Holland close to where you live ,where you can share your experiences with other dutch women and learn from each other and give one another emotional support and growth? I think it would be a very positive thing for you.
I'm a new Engineering graduate in France, from China. Lived in Israel as well. Gender equality is one of the most present things in my philosophy and as a woman in Engineering I certainly have some position to say. Gender equality doesn't exist yet, but countries like France and the Netherlands are quite good. That's one of the reasons why I couldn't stay in Israel. The achievement of gender equality needs the efforts from both women and men. Women need to know that you're completely capable of everything that men can do. Nowadays most productions rely on technology rather than physical efforts before the Information Era. I'm an engineer. Lots of things, like engineering, driving and so on, have nothing to do with gender.
You're an engineer and probably more than 80% of your class were dudes. So of course you earn more in engineering than in a social field were 90% of the class are women. Just ecological fallacy
TBH, almost all of the statistcs at the end are the result of the actions of women. 1. Women with the same degree have the same chance of gettig the job. 2. Women still tend to take up the role of primary care giver or have trouble working full-time. Anecdotal but my mom and a few friends are perfect examples of this. Two of my female friends have been expressing that they 'need more time for themselves' and have switched from a full-time position to a part time position even before they had kids. My mom and one of those two wanted to be full-time mothers so they quit their jobs. I have only one female friend that is in her thirties as is still pursuing her career to the fullest. For my male friends it's roughly 80% full-time 20% something else. 4. When they expressed that their male counterparts were earning more I asked if they were asking for raises. Two even told me 'I shouldn't have to ask for that', I was shocked. So, take note; ASK FOR A RAISE, THEY AREN'T JUST GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU. 5. Referring to point 2 on this. If you know anything about statistics you know that in a normal distribution the ends amplify the differences in the middle. With the difference of being work centered between women and men on average I don't find it odd that even less women are willing to do the 80 hours week that some men do to get into a top posittion. Now we have quota that are only going to diminish the accomplishments of women who actually worked for it. Simply because of people will start feeling that they are only there to fill the quotum. So I really have a lot of problem with seeing the choices people make and are happy with as a problem. (88% of us dutchies say they are happy) "So, even in the Netherlands there is still a long way to go in term's of 'emancipatie van vrouwen) emancipation of women..." In my opinion this has very little to do with emancipation but more with indiviual interest and choice. I mean if we're going to talk about equality of outcome here don't you think it's kinda self-defeating to say: "By the way... the team of the Dutch Summer School and Dutch Winter School consists of 85% women... So, Happy Women's Day to our teachers!" I mean if outcome is a valid datapoint to measure emancipation then that looks like you lot are being pretty sexist towards men with so little representation.
@@utilitymonster8267 Read what I wrote again. Women get paid more when they are starting their career (for the same job). Yet somehow men end up outearning women in the same job after x number of years. I am saying that this could largely be explained by women being less likely to ask for a raise. Ergo, the individual choice of a woman.
haha ''Dutch men dont help with ur seats and opening doors'', thats bc we actually think that due to the fact women should be treated equal we shouldnt help women with those things bc u can actually....do these things aaallll by yourself just as good as men can do them.. women are also born with arms and legs and can use them perfectly to open doors for instance. u should try it, in stead of looking around for men to open a door for u, then u will see that this is actually no real issue in life and u can focus on the real problems
Also that's not a Dutch thing... I'm Dutch, I've lived in the UK, US and am currently in Australia and no men has opened door for me, and I don't care lol
To comment on the lower income for woman on the same jobs. From what I heard it is mostly coming from men (usually) getting more into debate when it comes to salary, while woman tend to accept what is offerd them sooner then men. Of course this isnt the case for everyone, it is why i used the word usually.
> A parental leave that is also available to the father. I bet most fathers will decline. In the United States, as soon as a man becomes a father, he works measurably harder.
this is true tough it is changing. partly this comes from when children boys and girls were giving a diferent kind of upbringing girls were tought to be me quite and polite when boys were tought to be more outgoing and negotiate. however this difference in education and upbringing is changing in the good way and more girls are being tought to speak up as well and hopefully learn to be able to negotiate better. i think this is really just a product of how society "used" to have gender roles but with time it wil become better.
The dog actually said he thinks the gender issues amongst humans are minor in his opinion. As he emphasized the relativity of the issue, he elaborated with a comparison of the way people treat dogs around the world and then he brought an argument about dog rights and you could tell he really was passionate about the whole situation
i think germany has more woman in top positions because of the commitment to their work, bit of a stereotype but a stereotype is a stereotype for a reason.
Please don't start that wage gap myth again. It has been proven time upon time that it is just that: a myth. . There is a huge difference between equality in opportunities and equality in outcome.
DOGGO!! Most amazing part of this video! I really do think that women are equal to men in this country. I don't think people look at you weirdly when you're a woman with a job in any position. The downside that I've noticed is when you're a single parent who is supposed to go back to work even though your child isn't going to school just yet. No matter the gender, you're supposed to go back to work.
A lot of people don't realize that equality of opportunity doesn't result in equality of outcome. Meaning the statistics at the end don't say anything about the opportunities people have. Even if they did, all thing considered everything is pretty equal. Two average are in practice never the same. Take for example the average income of tall vs short people, I'll bet that there is also an income difference there. Let's also have a quick look at the percentage of women in top positions (11%). How do you expect this to be 50/50 when 68% of women work part time vs 13% of men at 31-35 years. A quick calculation shows that this would end at around 27% if we only based it upon the work time, factor in other variables and I'll bet you end up somewhere around the 11%. 27% explained: full_time_women = 100 - 68 = 32 (assuming a pool of 100 woman) full_time_men = 100 - 13 = 87 (assuming a pool of 100 men) full_time_workers = full_time_women + full_time_men = 32 + 87 = 119 percentage_women = full_time_woman / full_time_workers * 100 = 32 / 119 * 100 ≈ 26,89%
For the above calculation to be more accurate, I'll need the ratio men/women in the Netherlands and the ratio working/non-working for both men and women.
As someone who is gender fluid and was raised in The Netherlands I wouldn't agree with the part that you're seen as a human first, and then as your gender. If you're gender-conforming that's true, but if you're gender non-conforming the mentality of "doe maar normaal" ('just be normal') is still pretty strong, and although it's usually only strangers that act like this, it sucks bitterballen to be stared at. It's just much more invisible than it would be in other countries, which is a good thing but also tricky because we think we're completely detached from focusing on gender but we're definitely not there yet in my opinion. Other than that, it's very equal, and when you get to know people they usually don't care anymore.
They don’t have to but have to accept the decreased earnings, impact on career progression, reduced pension and if un married, they will have little financial protection if their partner leaves.
Their decision. You can’t have all in life. Making a certain decision will automatically have effects. This is with everything, footballers, CEO’s and so on. Also having children is the effect of a decision they made themselves, no one forces you to have kids.
It's actually illegal to pay differently for the same job here. So if it does happen you can simply take it to court. That women earn less on average is by choice of field and number of hours. Ie a free choice.
@@Joe-ff4uk You convinced me with your elaborate arguments disproving the fact that is actually is illegal to pay women less than men for the same job in the Netherlands.
Are baby boys circumcised? How's the sentencing lengths for men versus women? How skewed are custody cases? How awful are divorce settlements? Can men punch women back? Does the law recognize that men can be raped? I'm curious if men have actual proper real legal equality, and am less curious about women using freedoms to make decisions to be happy which skews statistics.
The only thing which strikes me as weird is the fact that those statistics never take the personal reasoning into account. One reason more women tend to work part time than men is because they enjoy taking care of the children and that's a choise. Same principle applies for salaries in the same position, men tend to feel more comfortable in negotiating their salary and tend to go a little further with it. The only equation which could be checked for facts based on only statistics is whether men and women have the same opportunities
11% females in top positions. There are plenty of legit explanations for that which have nothing to do with discrimination. A job in a top position means you have to be ready for your job at every single given moment, that you have to travel, do overhours, be very flexible, and that sometimes means putting your job before your family. Men in the Netherlands might care more for their children than men in many other countries, but it often still comes down to women spending most time with the kids. Most women start working part time after getting kids, as the statistics show, it's impossible to have a top position if you only want to work 20h a week. A top position requires your full 40h a week and usually a bunch of extra hours, work at home, work during the weekend, ... And many women don't want that because they want to be there for their children after school, in the weekends, on wednesday afternoons, during school breaks. Generally, it's impossible to combine a top position with caring for a family half the time. That is why there's only 11% women in these positions, not because employers discriminate against women. As a woman, I proudly say that my career is the most important thing in my life and by not wanting kids, I immediately have a much higher chance of getting a higher position one day.
One problem here is that women do not make 5-7% less per hour for the same job, it all lies in experience and women also fewer ask for raises, it is by law forbidden to pay less and if that were the case entire companies would have the cheaper women working for them. Just wanted to tell that, cuz I don’t like lies being told. The top positions I can’t speak about tho.
Its becaus dutch woman only work an average of 26 hours while Dutch men work 36 the more you work the more you get paid. If Dutch woman work the same hours they get the same payment!
We have CAOs here (collective work agreement) which makes it impossible for employers to pay women less that men. What salary you make is dictated by your CAO, not your sex.
hey bart,, ik ben een nederlander die in rusland is opgegroeid en daarnaast nog eens half amerikaan is .. verder veel plekken geweest maar blij om terug te zijn.. ik heb n vriendin die braziliaans/italiaans is DUS IK SNAP WAT JIJ DOET GABBER.
Of course it's mostly the opinion of people from abroad living here but still interesting to see. There's actually more women doing higher education than men, but they tend to choose different fields of interest with a different payment. I always encourage women to be the best they can be, but I also like cooking and can do everything myself. Still I hold the door open and present the seat when in a restaurant. A lot of women also can do everything themselves. These self confident women might come across as bossy or arrogant to males that are thought that they rule the house. They are intimidated by it. They can't act out their cultural alpha role here but have to earn the respect of the woman. The Dutch couples work more as a team I would say.
For something like this I would say the opinion of foreigners who have been in the Netherlands for a while has a higher value than anyone born/raised/living in the Netherlands. :-)
@@autohmae I would disagree. Just living here for a few years means you did not have experience with all aspects of lives and therefore your opinion is biased.
@@autohmae Yes. And I understand they don't know the details. And it can be good to have fresh eyes look at some aspects of life. But you can't judge a society on that. If anything women are massively benefited in The Netherlands.There's a huge women privilege here.
pay gap doesn't account for the differences between part-time vs full time, it is too general it goes away when u compare full time to full time and part-time to part-time, often depending on how u break down the statistics u would find woman getting paid more especially in their twenties when thinking of family is not an "issue". The moment u cross the threshold when most start a family or think of starting a family u will start to see differences...obviously. not to say improvement is not good to strive for but the data falsely presented should not drown out the reasons for the manifestation of any differences.
www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/maatwerk/2016/47/gelijk-loon-voor-gelijk-werk-banen-en-lonen-bij-de-overheid-en-bedrijfsleven-2014 Page 6, diagram 2.1. That is the figure for 2014, the most recent figure I could find. It says that the difference is 5% with government jobs and 7% in companies. The figure is corrected for many parameters - so that people for same job, same education, same background etc. are compared.
@@LearndutchOrg These only take the branch into the count, not the actual job. An IT specialist in the goverment makes more then a front desk worker at your local townhall... It is not made well enough to sustain the statement of "the same job". Another example, I do an IT study. Out of 250 students that started we had less then 10 females. Care workers had the same number but turned around. 240 females, 10 males. Care workers get paid maybe 60% of what IT pays... the same problem is still kinda in there. On another count, it will never be 100% equal as that is not possible. And another thing, this data is 5 years old...
Please read... this is not about comparing front desk worker and IT specialist -> diagram 2.1 is the 'corrected figure': copy paste from page 5 and 6: In dit onderzoek ‘Gelijk loon voor gelijk werk?’ is gekeken naar de e ecten van een groot aantal werknemers- werkgevers- en baankenmerken, namelijk: − Kenmerken van de werknemer: geslacht, lee ijd, herkomst, opleiding (-niveau en -rich ng), werkervaring, arbeidshandicap, huishoudenssitua e, inkomen partner; - Kenmerken van de werkgever: sector, aantal werknemers, percentage vrouwen, winstgevendheid, ves gingsregio; − Kenmerken van een baan; beroepsniveau, contractvorm, vol jd/deel jd, soort arbeidsrela e, leiding geven, managemen unc e. Na correc e voor verschillen in bovenstaande kenmerken blij bij de overheid een loonverschil tussen vrouwen en mannen van 5 procent bestaan. In het bedrijfsleven is dat 7 procent (zie guur 2.1).
Who cares about less pay or not, it is equal opportunity not outcome. You want more you demand more. If you are viewed as important enough you get it otherwise you simply make what you are worth to that business. It is every individual for himself in this society!!!
Man and woman are not equal, just like two people from the same gender are not equal. The question must be "Are women and man treated equal in the Netherlands?"
I think they used this one: www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2014/47/gender-pay-gap-fact-or-fiction- They're also creative with not looking what's happening below 25 years, women have a higher wage for the same job than men. So if this new generation is indicative of what's going to happen in the future we may actually end up with a completely new wage gap where men are paid less.
@@Trazynn below 25 is mostly pre-children. The pay gap difference only exists between women with children vs everyone else: men (with and without children) and women without children
reason for equality between man and woman here is because we have a sober mentality meaning most of us dont complain about beign treated unfair and just put in the effort to get respect instead of demanding it. sadly there are allot of younger people who have a different mentality because they think american culture applies to us.
Possibly because they are the ones left one step behind. But equality is great for everybody. The fact that more dad what to do their part of parenthood is great for them, for the kids and for their partners, for example.
@@cerisetrala1 lower jobs? Excuse me? I aint a historian but i dont think it was the women fighting in wars, mining for coal in dangerous tunnels, cleaning chimney's and having to crawl in them, and if they got stuck have to break a limb, working in factories (women did that later in ww1 and ww2 because the men where dying at the front). But while men where doing all that, the women where cooking dinner and looking after their kids... and about rights, the only right theg didnt have was to vote, which sounds big. But when everyone could vote for if women could vote, most women voted no. And do you know why? Because, traditionally, if you wanted the right to vote, you had to sign up for the draft and other emergency and dangerous occupations, like firefighter if a wildfire would start and there wherent enough MEN, or nurse for if a deseas struck the land and there wherent enough doctors. Women where afraid they would have to sign up for those too if they wanted to vote. But ofcourse, like always, an exception was made for those poor fragile people, and now they can vote without those dangers. And about the so called "paygap" it has been proven to not exist. When they studied it, they just did TotalFemaleIncome/TotalMaleIncome, completely disregarding that men take less sickdays, care more about money and less about familly, so work more hours, more overtime, and just dont do the same jobs. And quick logic; do you understand economics? If something is cheaper, but would work just as good (women according to you), then companies would only hire women, untill the point that unemployed women become rare, and if something is rare, it costs more. Do you really think companies care more about giving privilege to men then about making money? I hope this short explaination explains my point.
@@tristanlassche3560 are you from the 18th century? Reading your message truly made me sad, because you seem the embodiment of the sexist,patriarcal men that once decided they are simply feeling threatened by the female sex and that they had to dominate them in every single aspect of their lives, to obtain a superior position in society. Women are different from men (biologically) and what you are doing is comparing them to men and the standards that men have created for themselves. How about accepting the fact that women have been surpressed by men because men felt the need to dominate them and therefore assign them very fixed genderroles, instead of blaming women for working ‘less hard’ or ‘being affraid’. You can not just decide for men and woman what there priorities are in life. Not all men care more about money and less about family and the fact that you actually still have this rigid way of thinking says more than enough about your intelligence.
I think one of the reasons women here work is because it's a really expensive country. There is noway my boyfriend and I can have an okay life and own a house when I don't work
This is a bit misleading, don't get me wrong women are not free here than most places. But if we would use salary gaps and stuff like that as metrics, it wouldn't look so great. Most Dutch women work part-time and that would show on the pay gap stats.
Women here do not earn less per hour for the same job, that's fucking bullshit. Unless you bring up lifestyle choices that affect the amount they earn, which is an entirely different thing altogether. Someone who works part time after she starts a family shouldn't earn as much as someone who has been slaving away for years who does a lot more overtime.
What do you expect, the Dutch are a seagoing people and men were often absent so the women organized family live etc. and are since long very independent. It's a cultural affaire.
I am Dutch and my parents both work part-time (4 days a week). When I was younger I would go to daycare three times a week and when I went to school that became after school care. Later my grandpa looked after me and my sister ones a week so then I only had to go to after school care twice a week. The household chores are also divided equally between my parents. Though there are also a lot of families were only the mom works part-time or where the mom doesnt work. Care is also pretty expensive over here. Besides that I also think there is still much inequality on the workfloor.
Bit of a weird question, but do you ever feel like you would have rather had your mother or father care for you 7 days a week? My mother took care of me 7 days a week, and it's tough to imagine how it would have compared to a situation like yours. I would have seen my father more often, and lots of other children/ people, but I think that I am pretty happy with how that part of my childhood played out.
@@lystic9392 I am also curious about your question. In my case my mother was there for me all the time, but my mother and father didnt gave me the safety and freedom a child needs.. I can only visualize but I think it could be ok to go to day care a couple of days a week if you feel safe there. And that if you are home as a child you can feel safe there too. That's what I think... Maybe I am wrong.
@stephan dijk a shortage of enough talented people exists. And only reason women get paid less is because the men are more aggressive in asking for a raise.
@@autohmae - That is not the only reason. One of the other reasons is that people think women will eventually get pregnant and perhaps work part-time in future, so they invest more in their male workes. Another reason is that there is still the subconscious idea that man are more reliable in their job than women.
@@maryhunter6389 more reliable ? Who comes up with these ideas ? well, I guess so far men have yet to be pregnant. So maybe their is some truth to it at least :-)
We are there actually. Women just choose to work part time. And men choose to work full time. That's not going to change, its a choice women make. My gf and I have it the other way around. I work part time and my gf works full time, mostly because I'm in a it, and can be in part time and still make good enough money, and my gf likes working full time.
They ''choose'' to work part-time because of a social pressure. I don't think that The Netherlands is as equal as they claim to be. Most of women here are not financially independent.
Wow, how biased. It's all about rights for women, but nobody talks about the rights for men, or women's duties. In the Netherlands still only men can be forced into military service. Only male children can be legally genitally mutilated. There are no shelters for male victims of domestic violence. Boys and men are ignored in primary and secondary education, resulting in them being only 41% of university students, Men's life expectancy is still 6 years shorter than women's. Men have no reproductive rights. Men have fewer parental rights than women. There are quotas and social programs to benefit women, but none for men. Parental fraud is not considered a crime. There is a major shortage of teachers due to the school environment being hostile to (straight) men. A male victim of unwanted heterosexual intercourse is legally not considered a rape victim. Sorry, the Netherlands is far from gender equal.
@@Kutford True, it's a pervasive problem, but nobody seems to care about it. It's only profitable for women, who pay the same for old age pension, but get to benefit from it for >50% longer.
Men cant be forced in to military, yes we still have requered service but the law has changed so you dont have to go if you are being called for service. Get ur facts straight sweetie.
@@Grace-nu9zy I'll bet you that if the Netherlands (or any other Western country) goes to war long enough, then men will start to be forced to die for the state. A state that treats them as second class citizens. And I don't need to be Dutch to know that the Dutch state discriminates men, as it's the same all over the West.
In the West women and girls have far more "equality" than men and boys do. And most women are completely (and happily) blind to this gross inequality. Give men *actual* equality under the law and give men reproductive rights. We're nowhere close to "equality" until that's done. "Equality" is a simply feminist term for female supremacy. Oh, and women should of course also start doing all those types of jobs that they always leave to men: Mining, farming, sewage work, construction etc. Stop demanding female quotas for the "top" jobs in society unless you also start filling positions on the "bottom" of society as well. And stop talking about a "wage gap" when men work way more than women. And don't forget to become homeless without gender-biased help. And go to prison, in cases where the other gender simply gets a slap on the wrist or doesn't even go to court. And especially, go to prison, lose your job, or your education when your ex-spouse or date accuses you (without much evidence) of rape or incest, either because of regret of having sex with you, or wanting to steal your children from you with the help of the power of the state. How can women be so blind to all this? And I haven't even mentioned all the "men" that have now been raised by feminist societies to accept whatever women throw at them. Way to go, "equality"! Until Western women get off their asses and fix this total gender bias against men and boys, March 8th will forever be a day that symbolises the utter hypocrisy of women. The reason that Men's Rights groups exist is not that they are "misogynists", but because of reasons like the ones stated above. There is *NO* equality in the West. Men and boys are *FAR* behind - and we're not going to take it much longer, so fix this.
And then they put this in the discription: "By the way... the team of the Dutch Summer School and Dutch Winter School consists of 85% women... So, Happy Women's Day to our teachers!" LMAO. I think they should add 'hypocrisy' to their teaching curriculum...
@@polyliker8065 I can't help feeling sorry for the men attending who feel pressured to go on video and talk nicely about "equality". There's bound to be someone who only goes along with all the PC in order to not stick out as a "misogynist", but feels like crap on the inside while doing so.
@@tumarfa OR imagine some men do not agree with you and are telling the truth. You just hope you aren't the only misogynistic man, so you project your opinions on other men so you don't feel like the asshole.
I think this video, mostly shows how the Netherlands actually is. But the leftist tone in it is rather disturbing, even worse the comments that seem rather pro feminist instead of actually getting the point. Too many people still have tunnel vision, in the meanwhile things seriously deteriorate for men to insane levels. Yet that part is ignored.
3:56. Im a woman living in America and i kinda disagree. Its mostly if you can do a mans job. If you cant physically handle the hard work like construction for example, your not gonna get paid much. It just depends on what your capable of.
So fascinating, I thought so before I left the Netherlands, returning has shown me, women aren’t as equal as it seems. Just look at the Forbes list, only 2 women are ceos in the Netherlands who got there on merit. All others are heirs or through family. This is of course subject and objective , is it better than a lot of countries yes, do we have a far way to go … absolutely.
How many women start their own company and how many men do? The difference in numbers there is as big as it is with CEO's of big companies. Are women not allowed to start a company? Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome, is it so hard to understand. Another example, there has been quite a big campain to get more women into IT. And now after many years there are still like 95% men and we gave up. Why? Women dont want to work in IT. Do you want to force them? How would you feel if you are not allowed to do the work you love to do but you get forced to do some shitty job that makes you miserable but you earn 50% more? Is that a step back or forward?
i would not mind giving up 50% of the time working if its for my children or if my wife got more working ambition then i do. the reason more women have part time jobs later on its because they don't want/or think its to expensive to pay for a babysitter/ or (what we have here is a sort of a school where only baby's go and there are multiple people to look after them ) in the case both parents want to work. for all i know. its basically the same for women and men. i have worked in more company's where there is a female boss or higher positioned women . i truly cannot c a gap between women and men. and if i ask my coworkers if they earn more or less money. its always the same . only the difference is time spend at a company, and function. it goes like this, up to the age of 23 u get payed by minimum going up by +/- 1 euro a year .after this you get a static pay like any other. female or male it does not matter. after that you can grow in function. and you get more money or raises the longer you work for the company, i never heard or seen someone my age doing the same work earn less money . BUT there are instances that help you look for jobs nad u can get a job by going through those instances, by doing it this way you always earn less and different amounts of money since every instance that you work for will take some money from you for providing you work, and the cost for that is different for every instance. this is my experience and my opinion. i am 31 and am a full dutch guy. hope this was informative.
It is not so much that they get paid less if they are in the same pay scale, for example, that is not allowed by law, but the will less quickly make a promotion then men and therefore fall behind in wages over the entire period that they work until they retire. The numbers also look at the total working population, so also by the age group of 50 ~ 60 plus, fewer women will work in the same position than men in that age group. Furthermore, there will be a break in the career of many women due to pregnancy and as a result, they will have also incurred a pay gap. If you compare that with other countries with the same criteria, we are not doing so badly, but the difference is there.
@@NL2500 But that would mean that women do not get paid less, they work less. There is a difference. And stating that women get a promotion lesss quickly than a man is also not true. In fact, by law, women get promotions sooner than men.
When i hear these people talk this beautiful about our country i just think back in history because just less than a year ago it wad completely different
Sources for the statistics, please. I am willing to accept them, but only because I read an article about women not knowing how to negotiate for a raise. (Will put a source in if I can find it again, was in the news about half a year ago) That is however not an inequality problem, women are not prevented from asking for a raise, they just don't know how to go about it. Secondly, do women want those top positions? Most women around me don't want to. Should we force them to do so against their will, because it will improve equality statistics? I would rather have someone motivated and capable.
That is our direct culture, and has nothing to do with rudeness, if it was rude, he would have said it differently, like > : ( because you come from a shithole like syria) now that is rude
Another reason to live in the Netherlands, hardly any racism or sexism. No discrimination hardly. Some countries could really benefit from them. Love the Netherlands! The fact that fathers take care of their babies.
What do you mean "we're not there yet"? Women earn slightly less because they get much more time off from work when they get kids, don't work as much overtime and they pursue promotions less. That's it
@@timm8998 It looks so perfect because it is controlled so much. It is why for example K-pop culture is so big cause the rich control that industry and push it hard to make it look perfect while in reality it is hard
The reason women 25 and under have more of an equal job opportunities is do to the fact that the majority of Dutch women don’t have kids before that age; whether they’re married or just paired up. Once children are in the picture; especially in marriage it is expected that if the mother chooses to work, most likely it will be part time, full time is 4 days.
Anyone seen that clip of Morgan Freeman saying racism can easily disappear if you just stop talking about it, pro or against? Same is here: We don't care about if it's truly equal or not, we just make it normal for everyone. Our news channels don't talk about races, sexes and whatnot on a daily basis.
ultimately your gender, race or sexuality is irrelevant most of the time. "multicultural" is a bit of a misnomer though, seeing as culture is the #1 reason for people to clash, not race or sex.
Of course there is some difrence. But if i have a companie and i have a top seat vacant and only 20% of the people that are interested in that job is women than ofcourse 20% of all my topjobs is only women. As for the payment. I never say yes to the first option sell yourself as high as posible. I do think that men are doing that more than women. This all dousnt say that all is equil but it put thing in perspective.
Compared to many of their countries of origin we indeed have much more respect and opportunities. However, the income disparity is still very much a thing, as is the much lower chance of getting hired in top management positions. I'm a highly educated woman (2 degrees & extra certificates), hard working, ambitious and in my particular field I excell in certain specialisations. Unfortunately I experience(d) both the income gap as well as difficulties getting promoted - even over less qualified men. What's worse: in companies with a rather high % of men I was often not taken seriously at all when I started and had to prove myself over and over (remember one meeting where I was the only female besides the secretary. I was actually going to lead said meeting, but the people from outside of the company or new male colleagues immediately assumed I was there to get their coffee and make notes, instead of being only secondary to the CEO. Disgusting behaviour and not that long ago either). The only plus side about it is that men like that always underestimate women (like me) and therefore usually fall flat on their faces when it comes to discussions and negotiations. But it remains very frustrating. I'm well aware of the fact that not all Dutch men are like that, but the phrase "old boys network" or the idea that "women can't do xyz" is one that's still prevailing in too many sectors, as well as too many minds. Sadly the extra result of it is that men who would love to be a stay-at home- dad or become an aestethician (to name sth) aren't taken seriously either or are being made fun of. Men and women should both have the right and opportunity to follow a dream, their heart and talent. For the same salary and with the same respect. We're further than several other countries in Europe but certainly not far enough.
There is a reason that there are more men working in the top positions. You shouldn't hand out jobs just because someone is a woman but based on skill and experience. Now a days company names are being put on a list if there are not enough women. Pretty crazy imo.
Robert Straatman well, I Dont care If they wanna think that. People will always have an opinion. I will not let myself affect by that.... and there is nothing wrong with Gay People by the way :D
i take home flowers for my man too its just a little gift and the best part is that its not seen as werid when the woman brings home some flowers wich is nice c:
@@melissabeekers5487 Most men don't like flowers.... We have different tastes than women. Don't treat us completely equal. We are not equal. The equal part you want in a society is opportunity for happiness.
I think it is important that women stay independent also in a marriage and that they have their own salary, when the marriage isn't work, they can support themselves with their own income. I think that is very very important.
Culturally we believe that a woman is strong enough to be indepedent and be all she can be. So, of course we can be a gentleman and help you in your chair and all stuff like that. There's still a place for shivalry. But after that, things become logical. If she wants to pay for it, by all means - the guy will pick up the bill next time. We ask for her input in suggestions where to go. Men here do take initiative but the end-result is always due to cooperation.
I don't know how to tell you this but in the video people give their opinion on what they have generally experienced in the country. In no one group of people everyone will think the same and of course there will be discrimination in any country. The difference being that these people apparently don't feel like the consensus is that they aren't equal because of their race. As an example, if nine Dutch people don't discriminate against me and one does I would probably feel that Dutch people are very excepting. That one person was just an asshole.
dr is niet echt een bias tegen ras tho, mensen maken wel grappen natuurlijk, maar het blijft ook bij grappen, en natuurlijk gaan mensen je niet aannemen bij een nederlands call center als je geen nederlands spreekt
Male voting rights in Netherlands: 12 december 1917 Female voting rights in Netherlands: 28 september 1919 nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algemeen_kiesrecht Yup, ALL of us have only had voting rights for just over a 100 years. And when I learned about this a little while back, I was super surprised this wasn't widely celebrated here in the Netherlands back in 2017 and 2019. I mean, I was personally under the impression all men got it back somewhere in 1650, and women only got it in 1973, by the way the "evil male history" is portrayed by some, but let's not get too political and think too much into why it isn't common fact among Dutch people we've just passed our 100 years of voting rights for all, because when I learned about it and mentioned it in conversations, no one knew it was this close together. I mean, I could talk for hours about how "populism" seems to be the super bad word of today, but the opposite of populism is elitism, which is what we had before 100 years ago, for thousands of years, but again, let's not get too political and celebrate the idea that one of the first things Dutch men did when given the vote themselves was give the vote to their women as well.
Cool videos and generally good to hear. Only last part is a bit off, opinions are opinions of course. But the last shot with the factsheet are not right. First of all you only use age as condition for the first two points. That is especially a miss on the second last point, because young women these days already earn more than there male peers (in general, not for the same job but i get back on that later). The pay gap comes from the older generation of which a lot of women don't work, work less or didn't work all their years, meanwhile the men of that group worked there constant their whole life which results in high salaries. So for this group there is a pay gap, but nothing unfair. It has more to do with life choices, than with gender. These days these life choices can be made more fair then back in the days. Also for most of the jobs there simply is a collective contract/agreement which makes it impossible to pay less to woman. This is a hard myth and doesn't make sense at all. It should not be given as a fact to begin with, because people build their opinions on a wrong fundation.
I live in the Netherlands. To hear this from people from other countries makes me happy. My dad and my mom both had a full time job while growing up. My dad at night and my mom during the day. So i saw them both a lot. Now my dad is working part time so he can do more fun stuff. Its weird to hear thats not normal in other countries
Too bad about the conclusion.
They r all lying women and man dont earn the same money in the Netherlands if both persons do the same work men get more money than women
One thing that is worth mentioning is that next to the equality there is also the discussion of whether men and women actually want the same things. Being equal doesn't mean you're the same. So there is a bit of a stress point between on the one hand getting more women into certain jobs but on the other hand not all women necessarily wanting to do those jobs. I'm Dutch by the way but I think that it's important that women shouldn't be forced to do jobs just so we can put a number on equality. Both men and women should have the same options and opportunities but I think it would go too far if we started forcing people into jobs or choices they don't actually want to make. That's why I'm against this idea of 50/50 in every job because some jobs you will have more women and some you will have more men. We just need to make sure that the reasons for that difference are a matter of personal choice and not because of a lack of opportunity.
I agree. It should me equality of opportunity but not equality of outcome. Forcing someone in a jab just to get equal outcome is't how you want equality.
EyesOfGehenna who is forcing somebody else to do a specific job?
@@paolagrando5079 I've literally never heard anyone asking for strict 50/50 everywhere nor forcing anyone to do a specific job...
@@paolagrando5079
Sometimes when people are out of a job and receive welfare, they have to apply to or do any job that is available, otherwise they loose (part of) their payments.
@@Wuppie62 Sure, but that doesn't have anything to do with forcing somebody to do a job because they are a woman or a man.
This is something that makes me feel proud of my country, the Netherlands that is.
I really love this channel; you folks make such influential material.
Leto85 uhh, lekker ge-engelst man, vmbo?
@@jansenquinn298 Moet dat nu? 😂
@@Leto85 ik zie eigenlijk geen probleem met je engels in die zin
@@jansenquinn298 😂 doe jij VWO dan je bent rustig ook gwn een vmbo'er 🤣😭💀.
Fout vrouwen krijgen minder betaald voor hetzelfde werk dit moet stoppen
Research in Norway shows that the more the genders have equal opportunity the more gender specific choices in education and jobs become. Care is a career mostly choosen by women and engineering mostly by men, given a free choice. So the end of the video "we are not there yet" seems nonsensical to me because we have not defined where we want to be. To me it should be that we want people to have a free choice independent of gender. True equality is not possible because of biological and cultural gender differences, but I believe we have attained the highest level possible in freedom of choice.
Right On! I would love a choice and The Netherlands has IT!
Perhaps the pay gab will be closed when men start to work more parttime as well. The pay gab for women in higher educated jobs is a bit weird since usually you are able to set the salary you want. If I was a woman I think I would just tell in job interview you want the same salary as a man in that position. If that is a problem then this is probably not the company for you....
In my opinion Jelle is spot on with this comment. At least in the Western world. You can not add all the salaries of men together and then add all the salaries of women together divide them by the number of people in each group and say see there is a difference. It doesn't work that way. You have to look at choices the men and women make and then say there is a difference. Of course if you take a male doctor and you compare his income with a female worker at McDonnalds, you can not say there is a gender pay gap it's a different line of work. So is the calculation with the gender pay gap it's not based on the different fields of work. The actual difference in the pay gap is due to men working longer hours. I believe the difference is around 7% and the difference of men working more hours is about that amount as well. So basically there is not really a noticable pay gap. So as long as studies are committed in a wrong way the mith of the gender pay gap will exist
Jelle Alkema I've heard of that research in Norway but I'm curious to know if there there isn't a difference gender wise in how kids are brought up.
It also has to do with the fact that women care more about people, and man care more about things. Hence why women are more likely choose a job where you're involved with closer contact to people and man tend to choose jobs more involving handling things and products.
3:46 lol that dog was so random. Didn't expect to see that
even dogs are more equal in the netherlands
There is no pay gap in the Netherlands....If you work, in the same job as a man, AND do the same number of hours, you earn the same! Stop saying otherwise and do your research.
What your saying is true only to a certain degree, there are fixed hourly (minimum, depending on age and sometimes experience) wages for jobs like working at the supermarket or a call center. But in many functions in branches like accountancy, enginering, software, nursing etc you can negotiate your salary, and statistically speaking are men often better off by a few percentage points. Fan of Guust Flater here :)
@@beschuitig That's what I'm saying....if women do the same job as men, they earn the same. In your example they are not the same...some men are selling themself better then some women. If you can negotiate better, you are better and if the job is for example a salesfunction, your employer might find that skill helpful and is willing to pay for that. This all can also apply to women, some women can negotiate better then men and get the job.
Guust exactly!!
@Mark Blokland People have the right to their own opinion, people, including you, have not the right to their own facts. The pay gap is a multi factor issue, not male/female.
@Mark Blokland there might be a wage gap but you fail to see why there is a gap. the gap is totally explainable and shouldnt be closed. unless you want to live in a communistic country where there is no incent to make you work harder faster stronger. this has nothing to do with women/men discrimination but more to do with what they are willing to do for their job. thus man and women are equal 100%. so please stop being an asset to destroying equallity!!! go look at the nordic countries,, what you are implying completely failed there.. people are equal but devide themselves by choice.. so no men in teachers positions no men as nurses. getting women on the top manditory would get unqualified people at the top. 1 person in the video had it right.. we are looking for the best person for the job, it doesnt matter who it is.
The pay gap is because men work less in part time and more in full time, which means we accumulate experience faster which also means we have more pay. Also men are more likely to ask for a raise then a woman. Its just facts. Pretty sloppy research for a teacher.
The pay gap is a myth in the Netherlands.
Other than that, nice video.
And they are working overtime, they are more likely to move for a job, they are generally more ambitious, they are less agreeable. Women are actually privileged in the netherlands. As a man, i'm fine with that, as long as the feminists shut their stupid mouth with their lies and complains.
@@Tom-sd2vi I am happy atleast some fellow countrymen still have some sense.
'The pay gap is a myth in the netherlands'
Did you mean 'the pay gap is a myth in west europa and the USA'?
sjaak trekhaak I would exclude the USA, it's different from state to state there and not very comparable
It is a myth everywhere. Feminism is synonymous to 'lying your *ss off to obtain more privileges'.
woman can work as much as they like.
men do not judge...
women who work 40+ hours dó get questions like "why don't you work 4 days... your husband makes enough"..... by other women.
I heard a lot of women colleagues say "I don't have to work here, my partner makes enough money".
never heard a man say that
My dad doesn’t have a full ime job because my mom makes enough money. It does happen a lot
@@marieketeeffelen9095 and that is 1 great example
@@marieketeeffelen9095 And most important part of this, I assume, is the communication and support between your parents. That is where a lot starts. =)
@@marieketeeffelen9095 me and my girlfriend both have parttime jobs because we both make enough and it was, tax wise, barely any different between us working 32 or 40 hours. So why work 40 hours if you make roughly the same 32 hours and give up a free day, so your loonstrook just has a slightly bigger number before taxes. (This depends on the scale your salary is in, though). Having kids, this extra day is worth so much more.
Helping with your chair ??? Do you think you're a princess or something wrong with your hands ?
It is one one the ways that men show respect to a woman. How do dutch men show respect to their Mothers?
@@kitchfacepalm are there any womens groups in Holland close to where you live ,where you can share your experiences with other dutch women and learn from each other and give one another emotional support and growth? I think it would be a very positive thing for you.
Martijn Vv. I think they are talking about that because in their country it's what they are use to.
@@paolagrando5079 And in their country, do women have greater equality measured in financial terms or representation in positions of power?
@@robertarisz8464 Why are you asking me that?
I'm a new Engineering graduate in France, from China. Lived in Israel as well. Gender equality is one of the most present things in my philosophy and as a woman in Engineering I certainly have some position to say.
Gender equality doesn't exist yet, but countries like France and the Netherlands are quite good. That's one of the reasons why I couldn't stay in Israel.
The achievement of gender equality needs the efforts from both women and men. Women need to know that you're completely capable of everything that men can do. Nowadays most productions rely on technology rather than physical efforts before the Information Era.
I'm an engineer. Lots of things, like engineering, driving and so on, have nothing to do with gender.
You're an engineer and probably more than 80% of your class were dudes. So of course you earn more in engineering than in a social field were 90% of the class are women. Just ecological fallacy
France and the Netherlands, worst antisocial and boring countries in the world, so full of themselves... 🤯😵
TBH, almost all of the statistcs at the end are the result of the actions of women.
1. Women with the same degree have the same chance of gettig the job.
2. Women still tend to take up the role of primary care giver or have trouble working full-time.
Anecdotal but my mom and a few friends are perfect examples of this. Two of my female friends have been expressing that they 'need more time for themselves' and have switched from a full-time position to a part time position even before they had kids. My mom and one of those two wanted to be full-time mothers so they quit their jobs. I have only one female friend that is in her thirties as is still pursuing her career to the fullest. For my male friends it's roughly 80% full-time 20% something else.
4. When they expressed that their male counterparts were earning more I asked if they were asking for raises. Two even told me 'I shouldn't have to ask for that', I was shocked. So, take note; ASK FOR A RAISE, THEY AREN'T JUST GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU.
5. Referring to point 2 on this. If you know anything about statistics you know that in a normal distribution the ends amplify the differences in the middle. With the difference of being work centered between women and men on average I don't find it odd that even less women are willing to do the 80 hours week that some men do to get into a top posittion. Now we have quota that are only going to diminish the accomplishments of women who actually worked for it. Simply because of people will start feeling that they are only there to fill the quotum.
So I really have a lot of problem with seeing the choices people make and are happy with as a problem. (88% of us dutchies say they are happy)
"So, even in the Netherlands there is still a long way to go in term's of 'emancipatie van vrouwen) emancipation of women..."
In my opinion this has very little to do with emancipation but more with indiviual interest and choice.
I mean if we're going to talk about equality of outcome here don't you think it's kinda self-defeating to say:
"By the way... the team of the Dutch Summer School and Dutch Winter School consists of 85% women... So, Happy Women's Day to our teachers!"
I mean if outcome is a valid datapoint to measure emancipation then that looks like you lot are being pretty sexist towards men with so little representation.
you missed 3
Poly Liker, women in the Netherlands get payed 5% less in the exact same job, with the exact same amount of hours working.
@@utilitymonster8267 Read what I wrote again. Women get paid more when they are starting their career (for the same job). Yet somehow men end up outearning women in the same job after x number of years. I am saying that this could largely be explained by women being less likely to ask for a raise. Ergo, the individual choice of a woman.
Poly Liker, so? The result is that women get paid 5% less while doing the exact same thing. But you already agree on that right?
@@utilitymonster8267 Then what was the point of your initial comment?
haha ''Dutch men dont help with ur seats and opening doors'', thats bc we actually think that due to the fact women should be treated equal we shouldnt help women with those things bc u can actually....do these things aaallll by yourself just as good as men can do them.. women are also born with arms and legs and can use them perfectly to open doors for instance. u should try it, in stead of looking around for men to open a door for u, then u will see that this is actually no real issue in life and u can focus on the real problems
Also that's not a Dutch thing... I'm Dutch, I've lived in the UK, US and am currently in Australia and no men has opened door for me, and I don't care lol
@@EstherAdriana92 so when do u wanna get married?
Maybe what we should do is keep the door open for people, regardless of gender.
@@kitchfacepalm well said!
@@kitchfacepalm You are so true.
To comment on the lower income for woman on the same jobs. From what I heard it is mostly coming from men (usually) getting more into debate when it comes to salary, while woman tend to accept what is offerd them sooner then men. Of course this isnt the case for everyone, it is why i used the word usually.
> while woman tend to accept what is offerd them sooner then men
Yes, their slightly higher neuroticism makes them more shy at negotiation.
> A parental leave that is also available to the father.
I bet most fathers will decline. In the United States, as soon as a man becomes a father, he works measurably harder.
this is true tough it is changing. partly this comes from when children boys and girls were giving a diferent kind of upbringing girls were tought to be me quite and polite when boys were tought to be more outgoing and negotiate. however this difference in education and upbringing is changing in the good way and more girls are being tought to speak up as well and hopefully learn to be able to negotiate better. i think this is really just a product of how society "used" to have gender roles but with time it wil become better.
@@spiralofhope it is very common is the netherlands
@@spiralofhope most men in the netherlands do use their parental leave
3:46 they're gonna interview the dog too? I wonder what it's thoughts are.
The dog actually said he thinks the gender issues amongst humans are minor in his opinion. As he emphasized the relativity of the issue, he elaborated with a comparison of the way people treat dogs around the world and then he brought an argument about dog rights and you could tell he really was passionate about the whole situation
@@emoquent9447 lolz!!!
i think germany has more woman in top positions because of the commitment to their work, bit of a stereotype but a stereotype is a stereotype for a reason.
Please don't start that wage gap myth again.
It has been proven time upon time that it is just that: a myth.
.
There is a huge difference between equality in opportunities and equality in outcome.
yeah well, the "progressive" don't care very much about facts. It's all about their feelings.
DOGGO!! Most amazing part of this video!
I really do think that women are equal to men in this country. I don't think people look at you weirdly when you're a woman with a job in any position. The downside that I've noticed is when you're a single parent who is supposed to go back to work even though your child isn't going to school just yet. No matter the gender, you're supposed to go back to work.
A lot of people don't realize that equality of opportunity doesn't result in equality of outcome. Meaning the statistics at the end don't say anything about the opportunities people have. Even if they did, all thing considered everything is pretty equal. Two average are in practice never the same. Take for example the average income of tall vs short people, I'll bet that there is also an income difference there. Let's also have a quick look at the percentage of women in top positions (11%). How do you expect this to be 50/50 when 68% of women work part time vs 13% of men at 31-35 years. A quick calculation shows that this would end at around 27% if we only based it upon the work time, factor in other variables and I'll bet you end up somewhere around the 11%.
27% explained:
full_time_women = 100 - 68 = 32 (assuming a pool of 100 woman)
full_time_men = 100 - 13 = 87 (assuming a pool of 100 men)
full_time_workers = full_time_women + full_time_men = 32 + 87 = 119
percentage_women = full_time_woman / full_time_workers * 100 = 32 / 119 * 100 ≈ 26,89%
For the above calculation to be more accurate, I'll need the ratio men/women in the Netherlands and the ratio working/non-working for both men and women.
As someone who is gender fluid and was raised in The Netherlands I wouldn't agree with the part that you're seen as a human first, and then as your gender. If you're gender-conforming that's true, but if you're gender non-conforming the mentality of "doe maar normaal" ('just be normal') is still pretty strong, and although it's usually only strangers that act like this, it sucks bitterballen to be stared at. It's just much more invisible than it would be in other countries, which is a good thing but also tricky because we think we're completely detached from focusing on gender but we're definitely not there yet in my opinion. Other than that, it's very equal, and when you get to know people they usually don't care anymore.
Women are not yet there, but what if they don´t want to work 40 hours a week when they have little children?!?
They don’t have to but have to accept the decreased earnings, impact on career progression, reduced pension and if un married, they will have little financial protection if their partner leaves.
Their decision. You can’t have all in life. Making a certain decision will automatically have effects. This is with everything, footballers, CEO’s and so on.
Also having children is the effect of a decision they made themselves, no one forces you to have kids.
Don’t want to work or can’t work 40 hours ?
Maus anton This has been the main reason for the dutch gender wage gap.
MsGeorgeSR Im checking out by such a sexist comment like this. “Men force women all the time”
It's actually illegal to pay differently for the same job here. So if it does happen you can simply take it to court. That women earn less on average is by choice of field and number of hours. Ie a free choice.
Bullshit
@@Joe-ff4uk You convinced me with your elaborate arguments disproving the fact that is actually is illegal to pay women less than men for the same job in the Netherlands.
You're right. When a job has a CAO you're paid for the job you do, there's no difference between men and women.
The conversation is purely based on money and salaries, but can men and women truly be equal once children are added in the equation?
Vrouwen verdienen niet minder op uurbasis, wel op jaarbasis. Dat komt door keuzes, niet door discriminatie.
En wat voor keuzes bedoel je hiermee?
Are baby boys circumcised? How's the sentencing lengths for men versus women? How skewed are custody cases? How awful are divorce settlements? Can men punch women back? Does the law recognize that men can be raped?
I'm curious if men have actual proper real legal equality, and am less curious about women using freedoms to make decisions to be happy which skews statistics.
Found the American MRA.
Are you serious don’t be ridiculous
What about more female brick layers? I don't hear anybody about that.
Interestjng video with a really weird conclusion ("we're not there yet!").
The only thing which strikes me as weird is the fact that those statistics never take the personal reasoning into account. One reason more women tend to work part time than men is because they enjoy taking care of the children and that's a choise. Same principle applies for salaries in the same position, men tend to feel more comfortable in negotiating their salary and tend to go a little further with it.
The only equation which could be checked for facts based on only statistics is whether men and women have the same opportunities
11% females in top positions. There are plenty of legit explanations for that which have nothing to do with discrimination. A job in a top position means you have to be ready for your job at every single given moment, that you have to travel, do overhours, be very flexible, and that sometimes means putting your job before your family. Men in the Netherlands might care more for their children than men in many other countries, but it often still comes down to women spending most time with the kids. Most women start working part time after getting kids, as the statistics show, it's impossible to have a top position if you only want to work 20h a week. A top position requires your full 40h a week and usually a bunch of extra hours, work at home, work during the weekend, ... And many women don't want that because they want to be there for their children after school, in the weekends, on wednesday afternoons, during school breaks. Generally, it's impossible to combine a top position with caring for a family half the time. That is why there's only 11% women in these positions, not because employers discriminate against women. As a woman, I proudly say that my career is the most important thing in my life and by not wanting kids, I immediately have a much higher chance of getting a higher position one day.
One problem here is that women do not make 5-7% less per hour for the same job, it all lies in experience and women also fewer ask for raises, it is by law forbidden to pay less and if that were the case entire companies would have the cheaper women working for them. Just wanted to tell that, cuz I don’t like lies being told. The top positions I can’t speak about tho.
If women have to be paid less than why would companies still hire men?
Then nothing gets done, and the profit of 0 products is 0.
Hie men in wha sccenario’s? If you need builders you need men If you need computer work you can hire both
Its becaus dutch woman only work an average of 26 hours while Dutch men work 36 the more you work the more you get paid. If Dutch woman work the same hours they get the same payment!
We have CAOs here (collective work agreement) which makes it impossible for employers to pay women less that men. What salary you make is dictated by your CAO, not your sex.
CAO's only contains a minimal salary. You can still negotiate a better contract.
hey bart,, ik ben een nederlander die in rusland is opgegroeid en daarnaast nog eens half amerikaan is .. verder veel plekken geweest maar blij om terug te zijn.. ik heb n vriendin die braziliaans/italiaans is DUS IK SNAP WAT JIJ DOET GABBER.
Of course it's mostly the opinion of people from abroad living here but still interesting to see.
There's actually more women doing higher education than men, but they tend to choose different fields of interest with a different payment.
I always encourage women to be the best they can be, but I also like cooking and can do everything myself. Still I hold the door open and present the seat when in a restaurant.
A lot of women also can do everything themselves. These self confident women might come across as bossy or arrogant to males that are thought that they rule the house. They are intimidated by it. They can't act out their cultural alpha role here but have to earn the respect of the woman.
The Dutch couples work more as a team I would say.
For something like this I would say the opinion of foreigners who have been in the Netherlands for a while has a higher value than anyone born/raised/living in the Netherlands. :-)
@@autohmae I would disagree. Just living here for a few years means you did not have experience with all aspects of lives and therefore your opinion is biased.
@@StevanOutdoor Anyway... the conclusions aren't that different. I think their conclusions were similar. What they maybe got wrong was the details.
@@autohmae Yes. And I understand they don't know the details. And it can be good to have fresh eyes look at some aspects of life. But you can't judge a society on that. If anything women are massively benefited in The Netherlands.There's a huge women privilege here.
I think a team is the right word for it.
pay gap doesn't account for the differences between part-time vs full time, it is too general it goes away when u compare full time to full time and part-time to part-time, often depending on how u break down the statistics u would find woman getting paid more especially in their twenties when thinking of family is not an "issue". The moment u cross the threshold when most start a family or think of starting a family u will start to see differences...obviously.
not to say improvement is not good to strive for but the data falsely presented should not drown out the reasons for the manifestation of any differences.
Would like to get your sources where it states 5-7% less pay.
www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/maatwerk/2016/47/gelijk-loon-voor-gelijk-werk-banen-en-lonen-bij-de-overheid-en-bedrijfsleven-2014
Page 6, diagram 2.1. That is the figure for 2014, the most recent figure I could find. It says that the difference is 5% with government jobs and 7% in companies. The figure is corrected for many parameters - so that people for same job, same education, same background etc. are compared.
@@LearndutchOrg These only take the branch into the count, not the actual job. An IT specialist in the goverment makes more then a front desk worker at your local townhall... It is not made well enough to sustain the statement of "the same job".
Another example, I do an IT study. Out of 250 students that started we had less then 10 females. Care workers had the same number but turned around. 240 females, 10 males. Care workers get paid maybe 60% of what IT pays... the same problem is still kinda in there.
On another count, it will never be 100% equal as that is not possible.
And another thing, this data is 5 years old...
Please read... this is not about comparing front desk worker and IT specialist -> diagram 2.1 is the 'corrected figure':
copy paste from page 5 and 6:
In dit onderzoek ‘Gelijk loon voor gelijk werk?’ is gekeken naar de e ecten van een groot aantal werknemers- werkgevers- en baankenmerken, namelijk:
− Kenmerken van de werknemer: geslacht, lee ijd, herkomst, opleiding (-niveau en -rich ng), werkervaring, arbeidshandicap, huishoudenssitua e, inkomen partner;
- Kenmerken van de werkgever: sector, aantal werknemers, percentage vrouwen, winstgevendheid, ves gingsregio;
− Kenmerken van een baan; beroepsniveau, contractvorm, vol jd/deel jd, soort arbeidsrela e, leiding geven, managemen unc e.
Na correc e voor verschillen in bovenstaande kenmerken blij bij de overheid een loonverschil tussen vrouwen en mannen van 5 procent bestaan. In het bedrijfsleven is dat 7 procent (zie guur 2.1).
That one, are you going to admit that you are wrong?
Who cares about less pay or not, it is equal opportunity not outcome. You want more you demand more. If you are viewed as important enough you get it otherwise you simply make what you are worth to that business.
It is every individual for himself in this society!!!
Man and woman are not equal, just like two people from the same gender are not equal. The question must be "Are women and man treated equal in the Netherlands?"
Everyone knows that's what is being meant.
Man and women are equal. You just use a different definition now. lets not make it a language issue.
We are there.
But complaining is better than to admit that you are responsible for your own choices
I'd like to see the source for those stats at the end
I think they used this one:
www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2014/47/gender-pay-gap-fact-or-fiction-
They're also creative with not looking what's happening below 25 years, women have a higher wage for the same job than men. So if this new generation is indicative of what's going to happen in the future we may actually end up with a completely new wage gap where men are paid less.
@@Trazynn below 25 is mostly pre-children. The pay gap difference only exists between women with children vs everyone else: men (with and without children) and women without children
The pay gap statistics are unreliable. Those numbers exclude many important factors which impact those numbers. Besides that, another fun video :)
reason for equality between man and woman here is because we have a sober mentality meaning most of us dont complain about beign treated unfair and just put in the effort to get respect instead of demanding it. sadly there are allot of younger people who have a different mentality because they think american culture applies to us.
links to the sources of those statistics? cause I call BS
It’s really weird that people are fucking noticing the fact a dad is also a parent in holland. to me it’s weird
Why is it when people talk about equality, its always about the female side?
Possibly because they are the ones left one step behind. But equality is great for everybody. The fact that more dad what to do their part of parenthood is great for them, for the kids and for their partners, for example.
Good point... how many woman work as a grabge collector? Die in a war?
@@cerisetrala1 lower jobs? Excuse me? I aint a historian but i dont think it was the women fighting in wars, mining for coal in dangerous tunnels, cleaning chimney's and having to crawl in them, and if they got stuck have to break a limb, working in factories (women did that later in ww1 and ww2 because the men where dying at the front). But while men where doing all that, the women where cooking dinner and looking after their kids... and about rights, the only right theg didnt have was to vote, which sounds big. But when everyone could vote for if women could vote, most women voted no. And do you know why? Because, traditionally, if you wanted the right to vote, you had to sign up for the draft and other emergency and dangerous occupations, like firefighter if a wildfire would start and there wherent enough MEN, or nurse for if a deseas struck the land and there wherent enough doctors. Women where afraid they would have to sign up for those too if they wanted to vote. But ofcourse, like always, an exception was made for those poor fragile people, and now they can vote without those dangers. And about the so called "paygap" it has been proven to not exist. When they studied it, they just did TotalFemaleIncome/TotalMaleIncome, completely disregarding that men take less sickdays, care more about money and less about familly, so work more hours, more overtime, and just dont do the same jobs. And quick logic; do you understand economics? If something is cheaper, but would work just as good (women according to you), then companies would only hire women, untill the point that unemployed women become rare, and if something is rare, it costs more. Do you really think companies care more about giving privilege to men then about making money?
I hope this short explaination explains my point.
@@cerisetrala1 it's hard to imagine being YOU... what a SOY boy
@@tristanlassche3560 are you from the 18th century? Reading your message truly made me sad, because you seem the embodiment of the sexist,patriarcal men that once decided they are simply feeling threatened by the female sex and that they had to dominate them in every single aspect of their lives, to obtain a superior position in society. Women are different from men (biologically) and what you are doing is comparing them to men and the standards that men have created for themselves. How about accepting the fact that women have been surpressed by men because men felt the need to dominate them and therefore assign them very fixed genderroles, instead of blaming women for working ‘less hard’ or ‘being affraid’. You can not just decide for men and woman what there priorities are in life. Not all men care more about money and less about family and the fact that you actually still have this rigid way of thinking says more than enough about your intelligence.
Gosh, we live in New Zealand and we are equal, he has no choice, I am Dutch born hahaha
She definitely doesn’t miss Poland too much.
They are invaded every 50 years so....
Experience tells me that this is a tough culture in which to be a senior executive…hoping for the best in the next generations
Wow! This topic brought some nice people here!
I think one of the reasons women here work is because it's a really expensive country. There is noway my boyfriend and I can have an okay life and own a house when I don't work
This is a bit misleading, don't get me wrong women are not free here than most places. But if we would use salary gaps and stuff like that as metrics, it wouldn't look so great. Most Dutch women work part-time and that would show on the pay gap stats.
Women here do not earn less per hour for the same job, that's fucking bullshit. Unless you bring up lifestyle choices that affect the amount they earn, which is an entirely different thing altogether. Someone who works part time after she starts a family shouldn't earn as much as someone who has been slaving away for years who does a lot more overtime.
What do you expect, the Dutch are a seagoing people and men were often absent so the women organized family live etc. and are since long very independent. It's a cultural affaire.
This actually made me feel touched... I really hope there's no bias. ^^
I am Dutch and my parents both work part-time (4 days a week). When I was younger I would go to daycare three times a week and when I went to school that became after school care. Later my grandpa looked after me and my sister ones a week so then I only had to go to after school care twice a week. The household chores are also divided equally between my parents.
Though there are also a lot of families were only the mom works part-time or where the mom doesnt work. Care is also pretty expensive over here. Besides that I also think there is still much inequality on the workfloor.
Bit of a weird question, but do you ever feel like you would have rather had your mother or father care for you 7 days a week?
My mother took care of me 7 days a week, and it's tough to imagine how it would have compared to a situation like yours. I would have seen my father more often, and lots of other children/ people, but I think that I am pretty happy with how that part of my childhood played out.
@@lystic9392 I am also curious about your question. In my case my mother was there for me all the time, but my mother and father didnt gave me the safety and freedom a child needs.. I can only visualize but I think it could be ok to go to day care a couple of days a week if you feel safe there. And that if you are home as a child you can feel safe there too. That's what I think... Maybe I am wrong.
Being Dutch not in every job women earn as much as a man. I have been a teacher and there was no difference. We work on it.
@stephan dijk a shortage of enough talented people exists. And only reason women get paid less is because the men are more aggressive in asking for a raise.
@@autohmae - That is not the only reason. One of the other reasons is that people think women will eventually get pregnant and perhaps work part-time in future, so they invest more in their male workes. Another reason is that there is still the subconscious idea that man are more reliable in their job than women.
@@maryhunter6389 more reliable ? Who comes up with these ideas ? well, I guess so far men have yet to be pregnant. So maybe their is some truth to it at least :-)
@stephan dijk not every job some jobs they pay more cause you work longer at that job. And that doesnt mean they preform better
@@maryhunter6389 That's not an assumption, that's reality in many joba
dutch women should watch this video cause theres still a lot of them out there claiming women are discriminated in the netherlands
This is not the right question. Men and Women will never be equal. Question is; do they have equal rights and equal opportunities?
That would make a lengthy title. :D
We are there actually. Women just choose to work part time. And men choose to work full time. That's not going to change, its a choice women make. My gf and I have it the other way around. I work part time and my gf works full time, mostly because I'm in a it, and can be in part time and still make good enough money, and my gf likes working full time.
They ''choose'' to work part-time because of a social pressure. I don't think that The Netherlands is as equal as they claim to be. Most of women here are not financially independent.
Wow, how biased. It's all about rights for women, but nobody talks about the rights for men, or women's duties. In the Netherlands still only men can be forced into military service. Only male children can be legally genitally mutilated. There are no shelters for male victims of domestic violence. Boys and men are ignored in primary and secondary education, resulting in them being only 41% of university students, Men's life expectancy is still 6 years shorter than women's. Men have no reproductive rights. Men have fewer parental rights than women. There are quotas and social programs to benefit women, but none for men. Parental fraud is not considered a crime. There is a major shortage of teachers due to the school environment being hostile to (straight) men. A male victim of unwanted heterosexual intercourse is legally not considered a rape victim.
Sorry, the Netherlands is far from gender equal.
To be honest, men's life expectancy is shorter everywhere! The NL has one of the smaller gaps in the world.
Zoek een leven.
@@Kutford True, it's a pervasive problem, but nobody seems to care about it. It's only profitable for women, who pay the same for old age pension, but get to benefit from it for >50% longer.
Men cant be forced in to military, yes we still have requered service but the law has changed so you dont have to go if you are being called for service. Get ur facts straight sweetie.
@@Grace-nu9zy I'll bet you that if the Netherlands (or any other Western country) goes to war long enough, then men will start to be forced to die for the state. A state that treats them as second class citizens. And I don't need to be Dutch to know that the Dutch state discriminates men, as it's the same all over the West.
In the West women and girls have far more "equality" than men and boys do. And most women are completely (and happily) blind to this gross inequality. Give men *actual* equality under the law and give men reproductive rights. We're nowhere close to "equality" until that's done. "Equality" is a simply feminist term for female supremacy.
Oh, and women should of course also start doing all those types of jobs that they always leave to men: Mining, farming, sewage work, construction etc. Stop demanding female quotas for the "top" jobs in society unless you also start filling positions on the "bottom" of society as well. And stop talking about a "wage gap" when men work way more than women. And don't forget to become homeless without gender-biased help. And go to prison, in cases where the other gender simply gets a slap on the wrist or doesn't even go to court.
And especially, go to prison, lose your job, or your education when your ex-spouse or date accuses you (without much evidence) of rape or incest, either because of regret of having sex with you, or wanting to steal your children from you with the help of the power of the state.
How can women be so blind to all this? And I haven't even mentioned all the "men" that have now been raised by feminist societies to accept whatever women throw at them. Way to go, "equality"! Until Western women get off their asses and fix this total gender bias against men and boys, March 8th will forever be a day that symbolises the utter hypocrisy of women.
The reason that Men's Rights groups exist is not that they are "misogynists", but because of reasons like the ones stated above. There is *NO* equality in the West. Men and boys are *FAR* behind - and we're not going to take it much longer, so fix this.
And then they put this in the discription:
"By the way... the team of the Dutch Summer School and Dutch Winter School consists of 85% women... So, Happy Women's Day to our teachers!"
LMAO. I think they should add 'hypocrisy' to their teaching curriculum...
@@polyliker8065 I can't help feeling sorry for the men attending who feel pressured to go on video and talk nicely about "equality". There's bound to be someone who only goes along with all the PC in order to not stick out as a "misogynist", but feels like crap on the inside while doing so.
@@tumarfa OR imagine some men do not agree with you and are telling the truth. You just hope you aren't the only misogynistic man, so you project your opinions on other men so you don't feel like the asshole.
Are you an incel or something XD
Sorry but how the fuck do women get paid 5-7% less per hour for the same job when that is illegal here...?
I think this video, mostly shows how the Netherlands actually is. But the leftist tone in it is rather disturbing, even worse the comments that seem rather pro feminist instead of actually getting the point. Too many people still have tunnel vision, in the meanwhile things seriously deteriorate for men to insane levels. Yet that part is ignored.
3:56. Im a woman living in America and i kinda disagree. Its mostly if you can do a mans job. If you cant physically handle the hard work like construction for example, your not gonna get paid much. It just depends on what your capable of.
So fascinating, I thought so before I left the Netherlands, returning has shown me, women aren’t as equal as it seems. Just look at the Forbes list, only 2 women are ceos in the Netherlands who got there on merit. All others are heirs or through family. This is of course subject and objective , is it better than a lot of countries yes, do we have a far way to go … absolutely.
How many women start their own company and how many men do? The difference in numbers there is as big as it is with CEO's of big companies. Are women not allowed to start a company? Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome, is it so hard to understand.
Another example, there has been quite a big campain to get more women into IT. And now after many years there are still like 95% men and we gave up. Why? Women dont want to work in IT. Do you want to force them? How would you feel if you are not allowed to do the work you love to do but you get forced to do some shitty job that makes you miserable but you earn 50% more? Is that a step back or forward?
See, the thing is, we just don't give a shit. Like, you're living your life, and that's it.
i would not mind giving up 50% of the time working if its for my children or if my wife got more working ambition then i do. the reason more women have part time jobs later on its because they don't want/or think its to expensive to pay for a babysitter/ or (what we have here is a sort of a school where only baby's go and there are multiple people to look after them ) in the case both parents want to work. for all i know. its basically the same for women and men. i have worked in more company's where there is a female boss or higher positioned women . i truly cannot c a gap between women and men. and if i ask my coworkers if they earn more or less money. its always the same . only the difference is time spend at a company, and function. it goes like this, up to the age of 23 u get payed by minimum going up by +/- 1 euro a year .after this you get a static pay like any other. female or male it does not matter. after that you can grow in function. and you get more money or raises the longer you work for the company, i never heard or seen someone my age doing the same work earn less money . BUT there are instances that help you look for jobs nad u can get a job by going through those instances, by doing it this way you always earn less and different amounts of money since every instance that you work for will take some money from you for providing you work, and the cost for that is different for every instance. this is my experience and my opinion. i am 31 and am a full dutch guy. hope this was informative.
In what field do women get paid less than men for the same job?
Stadtionalist If there was any you would have an anwser
Stripping
It is not so much that they get paid less if they are in the same pay scale, for example, that is not allowed by law, but the will less quickly make a promotion then men and therefore fall behind in wages over the entire period
that they work until they retire.
The numbers also look at the total working population, so also by the age group of 50 ~ 60 plus, fewer women will work in the same position than men in that age group.
Furthermore, there will be a break in the career of many women due to pregnancy and as a result, they will have also incurred a pay gap.
If you compare that with other countries with the same criteria, we are not doing so badly, but the difference is there.
@@NL2500 But that would mean that women do not get paid less, they work less. There is a difference. And stating that women get a promotion lesss quickly than a man is also not true. In fact, by law, women get promotions sooner than men.
@@Stadtionalist - Huh, what law says women get promotion sooner than men?
Why is this not undertiteld in Dutch? And why do I mix Dutch verbs with English verbs? And why do I speak to myself?
Nobody asked this question
When i hear these people talk this beautiful about our country i just think back in history because just less than a year ago it wad completely different
Sources for the statistics, please.
I am willing to accept them, but only because I read an article about women not knowing how to negotiate for a raise. (Will put a source in if I can find it again, was in the news about half a year ago) That is however not an inequality problem, women are not prevented from asking for a raise, they just don't know how to go about it.
Secondly, do women want those top positions? Most women around me don't want to. Should we force them to do so against their will, because it will improve equality statistics? I would rather have someone motivated and capable.
The uploader replied with sources here:
ruclips.net/video/Ut4la9Sfk_U/видео.html&lc=UgytAVTge6-yWC4h_Tl4AaABAg.8sSeu9iQnDv8sSjWZKELCt
> societal norms is programming females to be more conciliatory and undemanding
Adults have free will; women aren't programmable.
The syrian girl: I feel more respected here.
Ofcourse your from syria!
Quite rude
@@SakuroAlex Blunt. But not rude.
That is our direct culture, and has nothing to do with rudeness, if it was rude, he would have said it differently, like > : ( because you come from a shithole like syria) now that is rude
The music is perfect. :)
Another reason to live in the Netherlands, hardly any racism or sexism. No discrimination hardly. Some countries could really benefit from them. Love the Netherlands! The fact that fathers take care of their babies.
Actually there is a pay gap and also there are less female professors in the university.
We will never be equal, equality will reduce freedom. It's just what is more important
What do you mean "we're not there yet"? Women earn slightly less because they get much more time off from work when they get kids, don't work as much overtime and they pursue promotions less. That's it
I’m from South Korea. I love being in The Netherlands as a woman. Feeling free, equal and safe.
Is it not the same in South Korea?
@@Smulpaap123 Korea is such a controlled society, I don’t even know where to begin.
@@theveganstudio5742 South Korea always looks so great to me, but never been there. Maybe I am wrong :D
@@timm8998 if I smoke on the street in South Korea everyone will be looking at me super weird :(
@@timm8998 It looks so perfect because it is controlled so much. It is why for example K-pop culture is so big cause the rich control that industry and push it hard to make it look perfect while in reality it is hard
The reason women 25 and under have more of an equal job opportunities is do to the fact that the majority of Dutch women don’t have kids before that age; whether they’re married or just paired up. Once children are in the picture; especially in marriage it is expected that if the mother chooses to work, most likely it will be part time, full time is 4 days.
Expected or do more women prefer to work part time and spend more time with their kids?
Anyone seen that clip of Morgan Freeman saying racism can easily disappear if you just stop talking about it, pro or against?
Same is here: We don't care about if it's truly equal or not, we just make it normal for everyone.
Our news channels don't talk about races, sexes and whatnot on a daily basis.
ultimately your gender, race or sexuality is irrelevant most of the time.
"multicultural" is a bit of a misnomer though, seeing as culture is the #1 reason for people to clash, not race or sex.
Great real honest video! I am glad to be a dutch women because we have it so much beter then a lot of parts of the world❤
1:22 flowers, opening the door, it's different for any person, like i do give flowers. open the door for others ect
Of course there is some difrence. But if i have a companie and i have a top seat vacant and only 20% of the people that are interested in that job is women than ofcourse 20% of all my topjobs is only women. As for the payment. I never say yes to the first option sell yourself as high as posible. I do think that men are doing that more than women. This all dousnt say that all is equil but it put thing in perspective.
if you throw numbers at the screen. especcially the wage gap. SHOW ME THE STUDY where that is stated. im getting fed up with this bullshit.
last mention of the wage gap was in the united states. that document has been debunked.
Ik heb een presentatie over de vrouw die hier voor gezorgd heeft Aletta Jacobs! Het is heel leuk om dat nu te zien zo
That line at the end: WE'RE NOT THERE YET! And that's the truth. 😳
What did the dog say about equality?
Nah women have more rights now. If you dont see it, you probably never will
Compared to many of their countries of origin we indeed have much more respect and opportunities. However, the income disparity is still very much a thing, as is the much lower chance of getting hired in top management positions. I'm a highly educated woman (2 degrees & extra certificates), hard working, ambitious and in my particular field I excell in certain specialisations. Unfortunately I experience(d) both the income gap as well as difficulties getting promoted - even over less qualified men. What's worse: in companies with a rather high % of men I was often not taken seriously at all when I started and had to prove myself over and over (remember one meeting where I was the only female besides the secretary. I was actually going to lead said meeting, but the people from outside of the company or new male colleagues immediately assumed I was there to get their coffee and make notes, instead of being only secondary to the CEO. Disgusting behaviour and not that long ago either). The only plus side about it is that men like that always underestimate women (like me) and therefore usually fall flat on their faces when it comes to discussions and negotiations. But it remains very frustrating.
I'm well aware of the fact that not all Dutch men are like that, but the phrase "old boys network" or the idea that "women can't do xyz" is one that's still prevailing in too many sectors, as well as too many minds. Sadly the extra result of it is that men who would love to be a stay-at home- dad or become an aestethician (to name sth) aren't taken seriously either or are being made fun of. Men and women should both have the right and opportunity to follow a dream, their heart and talent. For the same salary and with the same respect. We're further than several other countries in Europe but certainly not far enough.
Misschien een idee om deze video naar Akwasi en Sylvana Simons te sturen.
There is a reason that there are more men working in the top positions. You shouldn't hand out jobs just because someone is a woman but based on skill and experience. Now a days company names are being put on a list if there are not enough women. Pretty crazy imo.
“Dutch man dont give flowers”... hmmzzz I frequently take home flowers for my love....
Then they would probably ask If ur gay
Robert Straatman well, I Dont care If they wanna think that. People will always have an opinion. I will not let myself affect by that.... and there is nothing wrong with Gay People by the way :D
i take home flowers for my man too its just a little gift and the best part is that its not seen as werid when the woman brings home some flowers wich is nice c:
And why should it always be the man?
@@melissabeekers5487 Most men don't like flowers.... We have different tastes than women. Don't treat us completely equal. We are not equal. The equal part you want in a society is opportunity for happiness.
I think it is important that women stay independent also in a marriage and that they have their own salary, when the marriage isn't work, they can support themselves with their own income. I think that is very very important.
Culturally we believe that a woman is strong enough to be indepedent and be all she can be. So, of course we can be a gentleman and help you in your chair and all stuff like that. There's still a place for shivalry. But after that, things become logical. If she wants to pay for it, by all means - the guy will pick up the bill next time. We ask for her input in suggestions where to go. Men here do take initiative but the end-result is always due to cooperation.
Dutch people don't have any bias!? HA. Good joke.
It was true though
@@woutervankan4295 OK, keep believing that
@@AnnaEva86 you don't know what real prejudice is if you live in the Netherlands
Wouter explain that to the leftist media 😂
@@robertstraatman4070 did u mean just the mainstream media
yhe i aint gonna pay for you if you wanna be equal you pay for your self
"no bias against race" waaaahahahaha
Ikr
I don't know how to tell you this but in the video people give their opinion on what they have generally experienced in the country. In no one group of people everyone will think the same and of course there will be discrimination in any country. The difference being that these people apparently don't feel like the consensus is that they aren't equal because of their race.
As an example, if nine Dutch people don't discriminate against me and one does I would probably feel that Dutch people are very excepting. That one person was just an asshole.
dr is niet echt een bias tegen ras tho, mensen maken wel grappen natuurlijk, maar het blijft ook bij grappen, en natuurlijk gaan mensen je niet aannemen bij een nederlands call center als je geen nederlands spreekt
gjaddajg very true were hated
Male voting rights in Netherlands: 12 december 1917
Female voting rights in Netherlands: 28 september 1919
nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algemeen_kiesrecht
Yup, ALL of us have only had voting rights for just over a 100 years. And when I learned about this a little while back, I was super surprised this wasn't widely celebrated here in the Netherlands back in 2017 and 2019. I mean, I was personally under the impression all men got it back somewhere in 1650, and women only got it in 1973, by the way the "evil male history" is portrayed by some, but let's not get too political and think too much into why it isn't common fact among Dutch people we've just passed our 100 years of voting rights for all, because when I learned about it and mentioned it in conversations, no one knew it was this close together. I mean, I could talk for hours about how "populism" seems to be the super bad word of today, but the opposite of populism is elitism, which is what we had before 100 years ago, for thousands of years, but again, let's not get too political and celebrate the idea that one of the first things Dutch men did when given the vote themselves was give the vote to their women as well.
01:16 So what do you want then?
I don't regret at all to subscribe this channel and I am very happy
Cool videos and generally good to hear. Only last part is a bit off, opinions are opinions of course. But the last shot with the factsheet are not right. First of all you only use age as condition for the first two points. That is especially a miss on the second last point, because young women these days already earn more than there male peers (in general, not for the same job but i get back on that later). The pay gap comes from the older generation of which a lot of women don't work, work less or didn't work all their years, meanwhile the men of that group worked there constant their whole life which results in high salaries. So for this group there is a pay gap, but nothing unfair. It has more to do with life choices, than with gender. These days these life choices can be made more fair then back in the days. Also for most of the jobs there simply is a collective contract/agreement which makes it impossible to pay less to woman.
This is a hard myth and doesn't make sense at all. It should not be given as a fact to begin with, because people build their opinions on a wrong fundation.
Heel veel mooi filmpje. Ik houd van jou werk meneer. Succes