I agree, I also thro Rob Dahm on my list. It's awesome to watch him build that 4 rotor where he himself is still learning as he goes thru trial and errors trying different parts and brands and never hides his failures I've learned a lot from his channel about a lot of random things.
Thank you again Professor Morris, I look forward to your classes. Those expensive teaching aids are incomparable! I look forward to getting my degree from your school.. Tanks again..
This to me is the ultimate small block build…has a distributor and a carb. I would only need 1/2 that hp though lol but this is my ideal of perfection 👍🏼 Thanks for sharing Steve
As always excellent video! I would love to see a Q&A live session collaboration with Steve Morris and David Vizard. 2 of the best engine builders and educators on Engine performance in America.
Steve. I watch and learn from your videos. I used to build 1/8 mile small blocks in the 70s and early 80s. I always find something new in your videos. They closed the 1/8th mile drag strip many years ago. My son came across a blue tooth distributer. You can change the timing on the fly. It also has a map sensor built in to allow for vaccum advance and boost. It is from a company called progression. He has one in his mildly modified 454 and it works great. We are building a 496 to replace his 454. I am anxious to see what the distributer does in that one. Have you tried one of the progression distributors?
I'm amazed at this sbc!!! I remember my 4 bolt main 350 i bought from ajs machine shop. I was 18 years old. I put it in a mint 1987 trans am. I spent 14,000 on that build. It did rip!! It had a small cam and lots of suspension and engine upgrades. Back then i was just learning everything. Now I'm in my 40s and really want another car!! You would be the one i call. That is of i have the cheddar!!!
Very good content Steve..... crazy when you make pulls on your dyno the motor pull so much air in your dyno room that it pulls the shutters ventilation closed on the dyno room ventilation. Shows how much air is being pulled by a 1400hp small block. Crazy.....
I saw à SBC truck engine do that , it was burning oil fairly badly, I believe the valves got so hot they tulips, the cam and lifters weee worn I guess, I don't know how but the valves were about 1/16" dishes and cracking around the edges
Sadly not every business runs a business like you Steve . I'm wondering how many engine's came apart running that suppliers parts . Thank you for posting all the great videos on your channel
Goin to school today!! Thanks for addressing “tuliping” from beginning to end. Covering this from the beginning to the end in one video was great for the viewer. 👍👍
A long time ago I use to hang around a shop a guy who had a Chev Monza. I think he said he had a 98 or 99 percent ring seal . He told he checked leak down and it was down. . He said he a tulip his valves . I think he said he ran hemi valve springs in the heads . Thanks for the videos
I think you will find that tuliping valves happens on too tight a clearance once it warms up, if that clearance becomes less than zero what is happening is the valve is "CLOSED" as far as the cam is concerned yet the valve isnt seated fully, so that tiny amount is then getting bashed against the seat. i think i had this problem with my 450 honda a long time ago after i rebuilt it. i was wantring to go on the tight side of specs, yet it kept getting tight. i should have erred on the side of too loose until the motor was well broken in. it was hard to start and the last thing you want to be doing it taking it apart constantly to check clearances. you wanna be riding it.
Question Steve Morris what cubic inch small block is that I am looking to do similar combo in a street car great video allways learn watching your channel thank you
Awesome video. I watch a ton of videos of engine dinos, and such, but really love to watch ones like this that you can actually learn from. Again, great video, sir! Thanks for sharing.
I don't build big dollar 1400hp Small block Chevys but quite a few street stock and late model engines. So when our valve lash starts dissappearing it usually means the old double bump heads valve seats are pounding in because custimer wouldnt spend the money on hardened seats lol
I end up learning something from every video on your channel... good stuff + thank you! I do have a question for you or any of the other viewers of this channel. Do any cylinder head manufacturers make 2 valve heads for heavily turbocharged or supercharged engines with exhaust valves the same diameter as the intake valves? I know why the intake valve is larger in NA 2 valve engines but think/guess/suspect a heavily charged engine could produce more power with a balanced intake/exhaust valve sizing.
Thank's Steve for a straight forward explanation, No BS. Interested in the brand, type of parts you upgraded and put in the engine. Than's again for your dedication and honest work! Mike PS: What kind, if any finesse do you do on the assembly?
wow that could be expensive , great educational moment thank for sharing that bit of advice . When you say you could learn something from watching video it's no joke .
Steve is it possible for your average shade tree back yard kinda builder to put way to heavy of a seat pressure spring on it and have the same results. Ie cylinder pressure is not the only cause for this to happen
Unless the seats collapse, then yes the valves must be deforming to take up lash. What type of boosters does that blow through carb have? Annular or dogleg? Can't imagine straight ones would work good on the street?
When properly designed and adjusted, how long is it usually before high quality titanium valves start to stretch generally…? One of the things I always worry about when checking my lash… Is, did my lash get tighter..? Which would be the valve stretching, kinda like tuliping, only because it causes the valve to “grow”… 👍
For that valve that did not tulip, can that mean that this cylinder was less loaded than the others?, since the carburetors and that manifold I guess are not flowing all the same to each cylinder, or that is not the case and it is just coincidence that the other valve material fatigue.
I'm just curious... doesn't the fuel going through the carburetor, with the fuel atomization going on, cause a drastic decrease in air temperature after the carburetor, inside the intake manifold?
So could you make a fixture that allowed you to use a grease gun to supply pressure in a chamber sealed by the valve and determine at what pressure a given valve tulips if you had a dial indicator on the end of the valve stem ?
Seems odd that 27~ lbs. of boost would generate enough cylinder pressure to cause the valve face to collapse to that degree. Being nerdy, those valves would meet our TESA-Hite to satisfy the curiosity of were on the face they're collapsing.
I imagine that an excessive amount of spring pressure and the ramp on the back side of the cam lobe floating would cause the valve slap shut instead of a controlled shut.
Do you cryo treat any of your personal internal parts on your engines. Also how do you feel about low friction treatments of internal parts ie bearings mainly. Last question is there a need or have you ever looked into the spin tron to dial in the fixins in the head. I watched sorceress and figured your horsepower is close to him. Thanks Steve love what you guys do.
Does the blow through carb acts similar to water/meth for air charge cooling effect? Just thinking this setup would allow for running a bit more boost on pump gas than its fuel injected non intercooled counterpart?
How come the pump gas tune had that belly in the hp and torque graph? Is that where you yanked some timing out of it due to the boost curve coming in hard around that rpm?
I have cbb 461 Procharger F2 Big staff3 only 12 psi boost E85 no intercooler..Roller cam 0.650 lift Edlelbrock Alu Heads 315 intake volym. Dyno pull 1100Hp 1200Nm.Block are good 4 Bult Manly H-profil Rod.Wath are The max power i can gett??? Like yours videos👍👍
normal valve wear can cause the valves to tighten. Happens all the time on motorcycles especially with higher hours. Can also happen in cars but typically not as bad
Hey there Mr. Morris...quick question, so on a hydraulic roller would you ever notice a "tulipped" valve, or does it just keep stretching until it compresses the hydraulic piston in the lifter, and if you keep going can it destroy that lifter? Or will you just lose compression before that? Just curious. Thanks for your time. Love your videos btw, but you're right...careful now, you might learn something 😄
@Wade Crowe it definitely has solid lifters and that's why when the valve tulips it loses its lash. But hydraulic lifters have some give to them. They'll compress. But they can only compress so far. That's why I'm asking, basically what are the symptoms and issues with tuliped valves on a hydraulic roller setup.
I'd imagine you won't know unless you pull rockers and put a straight edge across them. Likely your first indication will be if the valve warps sufficiently to loose it's seal of your lucky but we all know it'll just pop the head off and go to town on the piston. If your running enough seat pressure, rpm, horsepower to be tuliping valves your probably not on a hydraulic tappet.
When you had both good and bad valves in your hand you could see the light hit the face of the bad valve differently, if you go back and have a look you will see the light looks kind of bow tie across the face of the good valve whilst the bad valve only reflected light round the rim, now I know the bad valve had some carbon it but I am not sure it would change the reflection so much. I would encourage folks to go back and have a look and see for yourselves as my eyes might be playing tricks on me.
I would ask more about the value issue. as I would be tearing my 602 engine apart since I'm not racing this year. is it only a issue for solid lift valvetrain with boost, or can it happen on hydraulic flat tappet as well where the engine seeing 6300 to 6600 rpm going into the turns.
I am gonna run something similar. TPI EBL P4 EFI setup... 10psi non intercooled 9.5:1 comp 350CI AFR headed COMP XFI HYD ROLLER CAM, if i can get 550rwhp i will be satisfied.... I figure 44lbhr injectors should do the trick with a hellcat pump in tank or similar Aeromotive 340LPH pump type.
Man. You, brent (pfi speed) and keven from ksr are absolutely the best people on RUclips. Always sharing knowledge and teaching. Thank you
Agreed 100%. If you wanna learn, I haven’t found anyone better than these 3 channels.
I agree, I also thro Rob Dahm on my list. It's awesome to watch him build that 4 rotor where he himself is still learning as he goes thru trial and errors trying different parts and brands and never hides his failures I've learned a lot from his channel about a lot of random things.
👍 this is true very intelligent men and all around good guys
💯 % best 3 guys to watch ❤
That is 100% spot on. I couldn’t agree more with your people selection. All 3 are good dudes and teachers.
Thank you again Professor Morris, I look forward to your classes. Those expensive teaching aids are incomparable! I look forward to getting my degree from your school.. Tanks again..
Love the tech! Very few of us in here actually get close to what your doing but like seeing the truth and what it takes. Thank you.
This to me is the ultimate small block build…has a distributor and a carb. I would only need 1/2 that hp though lol but this is my ideal of perfection 👍🏼 Thanks for sharing Steve
I always see tulip valves on marine engines. Especially efi from plugged injectors and running lein.. 502 efi vary common.
As always excellent video!
I would love to see a Q&A live session collaboration with Steve Morris and David Vizard. 2 of the best engine builders and educators on Engine performance in America.
Love the way you explain the way everything works on all the different topics. Everything makes sense.
Thanks Steve
I've saw valve seat wear cause loss of lash too.
It doesn't cause additional lash? Or can it go either way?
Cam duration, seat pressure, timing and elevated charge temp also effect the cooling capability and tension on both the valves.
Steve. I watch and learn from your videos. I used to build 1/8 mile small blocks in the 70s and early 80s. I always find something new in your videos.
They closed the 1/8th mile drag strip many years ago.
My son came across a blue tooth distributer. You can change the timing on the fly. It also has a map sensor built in to allow for vaccum advance and boost.
It is from a company called progression.
He has one in his mildly modified 454 and it works great.
We are building a 496 to replace his 454. I am anxious to see what the distributer does in that one.
Have you tried one of the progression distributors?
I'm amazed at this sbc!!! I remember my 4 bolt main 350 i bought from ajs machine shop. I was 18 years old. I put it in a mint 1987 trans am. I spent 14,000 on that build. It did rip!! It had a small cam and lots of suspension and engine upgrades. Back then i was just learning everything. Now I'm in my 40s and really want another car!! You would be the one i call. That is of i have the cheddar!!!
I kept my 67 fastback from hs.
Building a nice 351w for it right now.
@@I_like_turtles_67 that's awesome!!
I imagine that higher intake temp plays a big role in how hot the valve runs. Cooling effect of the nitrous no doubt why it wasn't a problem before.
Very good content Steve..... crazy when you make pulls on your dyno the motor pull so much air in your dyno room that it pulls the shutters ventilation closed on the dyno room ventilation. Shows how much air is being pulled by a 1400hp small block. Crazy.....
Valve seat recession also reduces valve clearances
Hey dr steve you do a great job explaining everything:)’would you be able to do a video on difference between blow through carby and normal one??
Had the same problem on TFS SB Ford turbo motor. The third of intake valves we used Ferrea competition series intake valves. That cured the problem.
Good info on tuliping Steve. I dig that SBC.
I saw à SBC truck engine do that , it was burning oil fairly badly, I believe the valves got so hot they tulips, the cam and lifters weee worn I guess, I don't know how but the valves were about 1/16" dishes and cracking around the edges
Sadly not every business runs a business like you Steve . I'm wondering how many engine's came apart running that suppliers parts . Thank you for posting all the great videos on your channel
Goin to school today!! Thanks for addressing “tuliping” from beginning to end. Covering this from the beginning to the end in one video was great for the viewer. 👍👍
Steve, I bought my F2 12 years ago from you; I'm glad to see they are still relevant.
A long time ago I use to hang around a shop a guy who had a Chev Monza. I think he said he had a 98 or 99 percent ring seal . He told he checked leak down and it was down. . He said he a tulip his valves . I think he said he ran hemi valve springs in the heads . Thanks for the videos
I think you will find that tuliping valves happens on too tight a clearance once it warms up, if that clearance becomes less than zero what is happening is the valve is "CLOSED" as far as the cam is concerned yet the valve isnt seated fully, so that tiny amount is then getting bashed against the seat. i think i had this problem with my 450 honda a long time ago after i rebuilt it. i was wantring to go on the tight side of specs, yet it kept getting tight. i should have erred on the side of too loose until the motor was well broken in. it was hard to start and the last thing you want to be doing it taking it apart constantly to check clearances. you wanna be riding it.
Question Steve Morris what cubic inch small block is that I am looking to do similar combo in a street car great video allways learn watching your channel thank you
Awesome video.
I watch a ton of videos of engine dinos, and such, but really love to watch ones like this that you can actually learn from. Again, great video, sir! Thanks for sharing.
I don't build big dollar 1400hp Small block Chevys but quite a few street stock and late model engines. So when our valve lash starts dissappearing it usually means the old double bump heads valve seats are pounding in because custimer wouldnt spend the money on hardened seats lol
Dewey don't eat the tulips, they are bad for your teeth.🤣🤣🤣
Now this is something I can relate with...blow thru small block 400 here vortech V7..
Good catch..I would kept re lashing valves till they pulled thru
Pretty cool watching the vents in dyno room as that small block consumed the air.. small block putting in work..💪
I end up learning something from every video on your channel... good stuff + thank you! I do have a question for you or any of the other viewers of this channel. Do any cylinder head manufacturers make 2 valve heads for heavily turbocharged or supercharged engines with exhaust valves the same diameter as the intake valves? I know why the intake valve is larger in NA 2 valve engines but think/guess/suspect a heavily charged engine could produce more power with a balanced intake/exhaust valve sizing.
Thank's Steve for a straight forward explanation, No BS.
Interested in the brand, type of parts you upgraded and put in the engine.
Than's again for your dedication and honest work!
Mike
PS:
What kind, if any finesse do you do on the assembly?
I learn something from almost every one of your videos! Thanks and keep up the good work!
I had an intake valve tulip on me once, just one valve out of eight.
The other cause of lash closing up is sinking valve seats.
Damn good Teacher I am so Happy your son is learning from you for future generations. Great job as always.
Yep, I have seen plenty of tulip shaped valves. Funny how heat and pressure makes steel move. Sad how much it cost.
wow that could be expensive , great educational moment thank for sharing that bit of advice . When you say you could learn something from watching video it's no joke .
Take a shot everytime tulip is said
What oil pump is on this engine? That is great oil pressure!
Great job teacher! What do you do to the snout of the crankshaft to hold the load of the procharger?
so knowledgeable tuliping... who would of thought. Great work steve
It used to happen with Top-Fuel" engines back in the sixties. Not uncommon at all.
Steve is it possible for your average shade tree back yard kinda builder to put way to heavy of a seat pressure spring on it and have the same results. Ie cylinder pressure is not the only cause for this to happen
No tip toeing through the tulips.
Unless the seats collapse, then yes the valves must be deforming to take up lash. What type of boosters does that blow through carb have? Annular or dogleg? Can't imagine straight ones would work good on the street?
Yup, learned somethin. Also Get a wooder cooler for the air 👌🏻🤘🏻
Wonderful stuff Steve. Would water/meth kit be viable for this engine/race class combo since no inter cooler?
I used to replace ford 2.9, 3.0, 4.0 v6 valves because of tuliping back in my machine shop days...
When properly designed and adjusted, how long is it usually before high quality titanium valves start to stretch generally…? One of the things I always worry about when checking my lash… Is, did my lash get tighter..? Which would be the valve stretching, kinda like tuliping, only because it causes the valve to “grow”… 👍
No one explains anything as well, and in simple terms as does Steve!
I recently tore down a Ram SRT10 viper engine and the exhaust valves all looked like you described. Tuliped. not flat but dished in
For that valve that did not tulip, can that mean that this cylinder was less loaded than the others?, since the carburetors and that manifold I guess are not flowing all the same to each cylinder, or that is not the case and it is just coincidence that the other valve material fatigue.
Some super interesting info on carbs there!
With blow through and no intercooler, do you ever have problems with the hot air causing fuel in the carburetor to boil?
I'd rather have tulips on my organ, not in my engine
Great video Steve. Would methanol injection help drop Temps for a pass on a non intercooled setup?
Can't excessive valve spring pressure tulip the valve as well? I wasn't even aware that cylinder pressure could do that.
I'm just curious... doesn't the fuel going through the carburetor, with the fuel atomization going on, cause a drastic decrease in air temperature after the carburetor, inside the intake manifold?
Nice Paxton charger. Great valve damage explanation. 👍
You will not put the Woodie on sand.
I forbid it.
No way Steve!!
So could you make a fixture that allowed you to use a grease gun to supply pressure in a chamber sealed by the valve and determine at what pressure a given valve tulips if you had a dial indicator on the end of the valve stem ?
Can you explain the different VP fuels? I read the descriptions, but I appreciate the way you explain things better.
Nice little engine, certainly puts out, thanks for sharing, all the best to yous and your loved ones
103👍's up Steve Morris racing machine shop and much more
Did you find any seat recession in the heads?
AFR heads with the 8mm stems are bad about this on nitrous applications as well.
like going to school every time I watch your videos, Thanks for sharing, really makes sense when you explain these things!
Good inf! Thanks for sharing you knowledge!
Badass😎👍🏼
That Pump-Gas tune will do me fine🏁
Vroom!
Thank you Steve always enjoy the trials and tribulations. The real world of building fast cars
Seems odd that 27~ lbs. of boost would generate enough cylinder pressure to cause the valve face to collapse to that degree. Being nerdy, those valves would meet our TESA-Hite to satisfy the curiosity of were on the face they're collapsing.
i presumed it was over heat rather than cylinder pressure. eg too much combustion heat combined with spring pressure
I imagine that an excessive amount of spring pressure and the ramp on the back side of the cam lobe floating would cause the valve slap shut instead of a controlled shut.
Just a question because I don't know. Why is it impractical to run an intercooler in a blow through carb on C16?
After I just destroyed a piston dropping a valve that tuliped.
Spring pressure on engine would have also suffered with tuliping if it was checked
Do you cryo treat any of your personal internal parts on your engines. Also how do you feel about low friction treatments of internal parts ie bearings mainly. Last question is there a need or have you ever looked into the spin tron to dial in the fixins in the head. I watched sorceress and figured your horsepower is close to him. Thanks Steve love what you guys do.
Does the blow through carb acts similar to water/meth for air charge cooling effect? Just thinking this setup would allow for running a bit more boost on pump gas than its fuel injected non intercooled counterpart?
we call it cupping same idea tho. how much boost at 1400hp?
How come the pump gas tune had that belly in the hp and torque graph? Is that where you yanked some timing out of it due to the boost curve coming in hard around that rpm?
Steve, What about adding a Water / Meth injection system to cool the charge?
wow never heard of that learned something new never want to stop learning
Better to catch it now, and fix it, before the valves pull all the way through and destroy the whole enchilada! Great job!
I have cbb 461 Procharger F2 Big staff3 only 12 psi boost E85 no intercooler..Roller cam 0.650 lift Edlelbrock Alu Heads 315 intake volym. Dyno pull 1100Hp 1200Nm.Block are good 4 Bult Manly H-profil Rod.Wath are The max power i can gett??? Like yours videos👍👍
Did you match the seats, to match the new valves.
I love the WARNING YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING at the beginning of the videos 😂
Did that pup, draw the dyno room vent doors closed at peak power ?
Would be curious to see if you checked the hardness of the different valves and if that had more to do with it
Thank you for sharing your knowledge! I appreciate your channel
I'm not sure how placing the water tank out back under the trunk with ice waterlines running to the chiller to air exchanger how is that a problem ???
Steve, Did you check the valve lash after that last pull?
Thanks Phil Stevens
Steve, have you ever done twin chargers on a twin carburetor engine???
So what is tuliping the valve head cylinder pressure pushing on valve is spring pressure pulling on valve head?
normal valve wear can cause the valves to tighten. Happens all the time on motorcycles especially with higher hours. Can also happen in cars but typically not as bad
Yep seems like car valve wear is a result of poor tuning and abuse
@@bwatt1383 abuse certainly accelerates the processes
Hey there Mr. Morris...quick question, so on a hydraulic roller would you ever notice a "tulipped" valve, or does it just keep stretching until it compresses the hydraulic piston in the lifter, and if you keep going can it destroy that lifter? Or will you just lose compression before that? Just curious. Thanks for your time. Love your videos btw, but you're right...careful now, you might learn something 😄
Even if Mr. Morris doesn't reply directly here, I'm looking forward to a discussion on this topic.
It my have solid lifters, which is why they check lash. Hydraulic lifters are not lashed, they are tightening a full turn after contacting the valve.
@Wade Crowe it definitely has solid lifters and that's why when the valve tulips it loses its lash. But hydraulic lifters have some give to them. They'll compress. But they can only compress so far. That's why I'm asking, basically what are the symptoms and issues with tuliped valves on a hydraulic roller setup.
I'd imagine you won't know unless you pull rockers and put a straight edge across them. Likely your first indication will be if the valve warps sufficiently to loose it's seal of your lucky but we all know it'll just pop the head off and go to town on the piston. If your running enough seat pressure, rpm, horsepower to be tuliping valves your probably not on a hydraulic tappet.
Is the engine moving enough air to pull those wall vents closed?
ALWAYS Learn stuff from you brother, Love it!! ... thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the video! Awesome tech! Hell yes! Well done, Steve.
When you had both good and bad valves in your hand you could see the light hit the face of the bad valve differently, if you go back and have a look you will see the light looks kind of bow tie across the face of the good valve whilst the bad valve only reflected light round the rim, now I know the bad valve had some carbon it but I am not sure it would change the reflection so much. I would encourage folks to go back and have a look and see for yourselves as my eyes might be playing tricks on me.
I would ask more about the value issue. as I would be tearing my 602 engine apart since I'm not racing this year. is it only a issue for solid lift valvetrain with boost, or can it happen on hydraulic flat tappet as well where the engine seeing 6300 to 6600 rpm going into the turns.
I am gonna run something similar. TPI EBL P4 EFI setup... 10psi non intercooled 9.5:1 comp 350CI AFR headed COMP XFI HYD ROLLER CAM, if i can get 550rwhp i will be satisfied.... I figure 44lbhr injectors should do the trick with a hellcat pump in tank or similar Aeromotive 340LPH pump type.
Have you ever had any luck with sodium valves? Would that matter?