Knife vs Handgun - A Reality Check
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- The ultimate question: what distance should you keep when dealing with an attacker armed with a knife? We tested this with two spec ops veterans, a REX Zero 1 FX handgun and a dummy knife. See the results for yourself.
Gear up with the tactical clothing used in this video:
Hunter FZ Jacket: bit.ly/2J2koOB
Striker XT Gen.2 Combat Pants: bit.ly/2J3Qr0L
Keep in mind that the defenders reaction time was faster cuz he was expecting the stab.
And keep in mind that it was up to 2 seconds slower due to him having to chamber a round every time
@@dearjohn8789 And his jacket was getting in the way as he was reaching for his gun.
Well irl if a dude is going to stab you realize that the dude is really sketchy and be on your guard and he'll probably yell/insult you before hand
This situation is extremely unrealistic unless your going into a situation in which the person is already planning to kill you with the knife. Which in almost never the case in everyday situations such as robberies and other violent crimes. Almost everyone who carries a knife carries some type of knife that is not an open blade knife like the one used in the simulation so it would take a lot longer for the person to pull out the knife if they had it stowed away. OR more likely have it counselled in a jacket sleeve and will only branish it when they are close enough to you to be threatening and they will give a demand not just stab you. The only situation I can see this being valuable is your in a gang or something where you messed with the wrong person and now you have a hit out on you but even then you should be aware someone is coming after you. Also the defender did not once lift up his arm to defend himself from the knife attack he held his arm close to his head and let the knife slip in and cut him in the throat every time.
@@marclucido5721 also you don't have to fully extend your a gun in this situation shooting from the hip like a cowboy would work wonders
I personally love that y'all included his one bad unholstering. It really shows that you're taking a risk going for the gun.
Thats a wierd term used to describe the possibility of a bad draw.
It's highly probable when you're in a rush.
@@cloudshifter Not highly probable if you're trained and used to your gun- I mean, even the guy in the video rarely failed the draw, he was doing quite well and that was the only critical failure.
@@neurotic3015 Guy was a proffessional that does this for a living and was still able to get a 20% failure of drawing a gun on time. He even knew that he had to draw and that he was getting attacked in the first place for the experiment. If someone wants to kill you with a knife they will keep it hidden until they are almost touching you.
I would disagree about the "risk" of going for the gun, at least in this situation. I mean, if you are getting attacked by some guy with a knife in hand, it would be more risky to try to go "mano-a-mano" hand to hand with him than it would be to draw your firearm, even if there is a chance of a misdraw...
The defender absolutely knew this was coming. If this was a surprise attack by the knife user he would have won every time.
Mental preparation is a big difference.
Yeah but I may be able to eat a couple knife strikes... after the first shot it’s pretty much over.
@@mlking213 knife slash to the throat > single bullet to the abdomen
@@mlking213 The human body doesn't just stop working right after being shot. It's not uncommon for people who have been shot fatally to still be able to move around for 5-20 seconds. Here is an example. ruclips.net/video/tDmi8sMeC5I/видео.html
If you want a better representation of knife vs gun Doug Marcaida has a video somewhere on youtube too.
Anna Wendland same with stabbing. Several of these sets here we see the gun guy just stop after knife guy makes first contact. In reality most of those knife strikes would not completely and instantaneously incapacitate gun guy and he would probably be putting rounds into him before he died. These guys could very easily kill each other, they are both fully capable of delivering deadly blows before succumbing to their own fatal injuries.
@@mlking213 after first shot over huh? clearly you have no idea what you are talking about, seen people taking several bullets into abdomen before being incapacitated, unless you land headshot or direct heart shot it aint over
What people forget is that even if you hit the attacker with your gun he might still keep running for a few metres and be able to hit you with his knife.
@Thomas B It doesn't always work like that.
@@genesisbeyond4256 Yeah, but it also depends where you stab the guy.
@@genesisbeyond4256 The thing is, knife is a very versatile weapon
compared to guns. With guns, you can maybe do pistol whip or shoot it. But with knife, he can just retract the knife and stab/slash again if you block it. Also, knives are lighter than guns, so....
@@genesisbeyond4256 Well, what if the knife guy kick you in the penis/vagina before you even can retract your gun. Actually, the "effectivity" of knives or guns depend on the users. Case closed.
I had the same thought. In my opinion, even a lot of the "evasions" here wouldn't really have worked, unless you'd have something with enough stopping power or hit the head (which is risky to go for). You can also clearly see that the attacker is oftentimes reducing his speed before reaching the defender, because this is just a demonstration and they're colleagues. If he was really, and I mean, REALLY determined to kill the guy, he would keep lunging forward at all cost, maybe even leap at him and then slash and stab chaotically. In the end, you might manage to shoot him one or two times in the chest, but he's going to be on top of you and massacring you with the knife.
I don't think 7m is enough distance in such a scenario tbh.
This is interesting but in some of the “attack evaded” scenarios it is likely/possible that the attacker wouldn’t immediately succumb to their wounds and could still attack with lethal force.
True but it's a lot easier to shoot multiple times than stab multiple times. Even if he isn't shocked but getting two bullets in his chest. How many times can you shoot him in one stab? Thee, four times? And that's the importance of the Mozambique drill. Chest chest head.
@@megawolfr1986 should be noted, the first knife attack wasn’t a stab but a slash to your jugular, also while its common practice to present your firearm with two hands, center forward- the knife attacker (if equally practiced) still has a non occupied hand.
In reality, the only true takeaway from this demonstration is if you’re only carrying a gun then keep a safe distance in accordance to draw and present with enough time.
Might as well carry both, knife for CQC. A concealed carry for other situations.
@@megawolfr1986 if you wouldnt headshot and close the lights for the attacker he can keep attacking and stabbing until his general body blood levels goes under %50 so if you shoot maybe 14 times and when your magazine is empty he can still breathe and still can attack yeah maybe hes gonna dead after attack but he still do bad things for you
@@maxillwexo9594 people don't tend to keep going when there are 9mm holes in their heart, and generally don't feel so good when their lungs collapse.
Besides a meth-uped junkie you are better off hitting the chest first. But sure, hit that noggin if you can.
@@maxillwexo9594 bro, Blood pressure goes down fast when the hit is on the chest, 4 or 3 bullets will blackout the guy
I've been in a few scuffles (never drew my firearm outside the house but 2x home invasion survivor). I have been attacked outside of the home and my first instinct before anything else is to create distance between me and the threat. That needs to come naturally to everyone. If it doesnt you need to train yourself to do so. It will be your best defense in any defensive situation. Continue to back up but face towards the perp. Know your surroundings (keep your headphones/ear buds and blue tooth at home). Do not text unless in a secure location. Bring your arm down to draw position while backing a way and trying to defuse situation.
Tell them you dont want trouble and to please leave you alone. Let them throw their insults, do not instigate. If they still want problems then you deploy your defensive tools, whatever they may be but not before hand. Even if you have stand your ground laws the distance you create can be a life saver. The only place you should be "cornered" is in your home perhaps. I dont go into alleyways, I always stay out in the opened. I always look around before opening up my truck door and entering a vehicle. It's not hard to do these things. It's like looking both ways before crossing a road. Just be smart and vigilant.
Might be rue but once my husband went to work after midnight and had to walk through a seedy place. A man stepped in front of him with the intention of robbing him. My husband who used to pack a balisong drew his knife out and aimed the knife behind him. Apparently the robber had an accomplice waiting behind the victim ready to gut him. The robbers stopped and walked away. The story really scared me
Well said
@@daizzyang5262 SMART HUSBAND.
Sounds like you needa move big dog
@@youredumb violent people are everywhere
At extreme close distance you should fall on your back while aiming your handgun. Use your legs to keep the distance with the attacker.
baptiste bihan you are a profi! Good contribution!
I'll like to see how that works unironacly...
Milanor Wolf funker tactical showed it heres the link to the vid it happens at about 7:30
ruclips.net/video/2fjMpn7JCJ0/видео.html
Milanor Wolf it works if you are trained ;-) train, not only watch videos...
That can work sometimes in some conditions but not in close spaces or multiply attackers. Truthfully the answer is sometimes fall back, sometimes move off the X, sometimes deflect with your support hand, and sometimes rest your hand on a nearby object (like the back of a chair) and if someone attacks you throw it at them to create time to react. The one thing that all these suggestions have in common is your ability to pay attention to your surroundings so that you always have an escape plain. so your not wrong Baptist bihan, but everyone should acknowledge and pay respect to what it means to truly have a tactical mindset.
Pro tip from my boxing coach, LATERAL movement. Side stepping and pivots will beat backing up in a straight line. 👍🏻 stay safe.
Yep! You never see a crab run backwards.
100% true
Not really, as a backward still will give you distance from any punch or grab and if your attacker keeps coming forward he will then walk straight into your punch or elbow
You need to have a super knock out punch and speed to survive. 3 punch vs 1 stab, you die or knock him out early.
@@ianmaddocks3551 No you’re right. What would a professional boxer and coach know about controlling distance or landing punches?
Love the pressure tests. Keeps everyone honest and while not perfect it gives us a greater sense of reality.
Guess I’ll just walk around with a pistol that shoots out knives. Win win.
Best post here.
You still won't draw fast enough ;)
Next tier: a knife that shoots out pistols
Michael E that’s why you need one of those world record breakers
Most RUclips comments like this are stupid... this was not one of them
Before: Never bring a knife to a gunfight
After: Never bring a knife to a tueller-range gunfight
what about a ninja star?
@@gameman2936 or maybe a throwing knife to close the distance
Yeah.. there is a difference when you already have a gun in your hand :D
@@gameman2936 ninja stars are really terrible weapons unless they hit just right. But you’re probably joking.
@@senormonke4579 nope coat them with assorted spider venoms since you can make almost all of them lethal with just what you find in the garden, tag run and wait. You want it not to stick so you can pick it up while he's going through dimentia and horrible hallucinations a few stumbled blocks out incoherently searching for you cuz he ran with it in his system EDIT: it's something police will not tell you, but if you die to an envenomed ninja star cut and they can't find the star cuz dude just kept and washed it, he will not be arrested whether or not they close that case it'll be whoever dude beefed with last they grill over it. Also no cutesy designs, normal shuriken quad stars harder to figure out who bought some where if you're serious. #wayoftheninja
brings a new meaning to the phrase "bringing a knife to a gun fight"
Attorney: Officer Snuffy, why did you shoot the deceased who was only armed with a knife?
Office Snuffy: Plays Knife vs Handgun - A Reality Check
Liberals: WE DON'T CARE! FUCK FACTS! COPS ARE EVIL! RIOT!!!!!!!!!!!
SgtGigawattz that sounds about right
If the attacked had a bat the cops would still shoot
What I was highlighting is the ability for someone armed with a knife(or any melee weapon) to close the distance and cause harm. If an aggressor is 20ft away with a knife and still advancing damn well you can shoot.
I would play "Surviving Edged Weapons" instead which actually shows real cases of armed cops getting wrecked by edge wielding maniacs
I love the way you guys edit the videos with text headers and colored pop-ups to illustrate the verdict after each test. And it's very helpful to hear the sound of the paintball gun over the music. Very educational.
The cool thing about what they're doing is those, from what I can tell, are real guns. The rounds they're using are called "simunition" which is basically an actual handgun round with a delicate "paintball" instead of an actual round.
I've done a training course with them and they hurt. Not terrible, but you definitely feel it. I think they make rifle and handgun versions of them.
Joseph Carman I’ve heard of Simunition. I think the Mythbusters used to use it for testing.
I think these are more akin to air-soft than paintball considering the realism that is desired.
MrFiddleedee It's not really that similar in function to Airsoft. They're literally live rounds, just paint instead. They use real guns. I think the only difference might be they replace recoil springs with lighter ones.
They might feel like airsoft. Idk, I've never played airsoft but you do feel it when you get blasted
There are chalk rounds used by airsoft guns, combined with "green gas" they function almost exactly like a real handgun. Tbh I believe that is what is being used in this video.
The last part also demonstrates how panic causes your handgun draw to be more clumsy. And that part is realistic because when you see death coming at you and your hands are shaking, something as simple as drawing a handgun can become difficult to do correctly.
This is why I stand 20 feet away from people in my every life.
Also hints why we keep are hand on are piece makers 😂
What about snipers?🤣
@@Anonymous-te8zl 20 feet away is ideal against a sniper. I could close the gap faster than they could aim.
👍😁
@@PleasantLeech What if they use aimbot 🤔
Good video showing how dangerous melee weapons can be, even in a gun environment. Imagine the following factors;
1. Having to rack the slide!
2. Not being prepared for an attack.
3. The pressure of a real-life scenario.
4. Not dropping an attacker with one shot, because of, for example, adrenaline or drugs.
Very nice video!
You should be carrying your pistol with one in the chamber. Racking the slide shouldn't even be a factor, or is that your point?
Not carrying one in the chamber is a death sentence. That's why you have guns with multiple safety mechanisms
You should never have to rack the slide.
#4: Drugs? Why are drugs even mentioned here? What drugs and why? If you are using any drugs that would effect motor reflexes, cognitive thought processes or anything else along such lines you shouldn't even have a gun on your person. That's just plain stupid.
@@christopherjakel1049 They meant the knife attacker on drugs that would make them not drop in one shot. You see it in police shooting all the time.
Solution:
Bayonet fixed pistol
Reasonable.
Fuck it. Make the gun a already out 10 gauge shotgun.
😄
FBI wants to know your location lol
No just throw the knife
Where the pro fighters in the comments who killed someone before with their bare hands
done that without pro fighting
Had to deal with knife attackers on multiple times due to my job. This video IS spot on. Create distance vs a knife attack. Also, most knife attacks are ambushes and surprise attacks. Defend the vitals as much as you can and create distance.
I killed a guy with my no touch chijutsu once. 😂😂 I can block your sissy knife and bullet with mAh mind!!! (Satisfied?)
There they are^
Bare hands are for noobs I use my chi.
I like when the attacker winces with anticipation before being shot.
Gotta give him props for being willing to take the hit for the demo.
There is one thing to keep in mind: None of the knife attacks are instantly incapacitating. There is a good chance both parties will be badly injured in the close range knife attacks. The types of hits the knife wielder landed at all but the closest distance were flesh wounds, no artery hits.
Gunshots that do not directly hit his central nervous system or upper spinal cord also wont be instantly incapacitating if the knife wielder was full of adrenaline knowing he may get shot.
@@Frenchfrys17 100% agreed. Also the gunman is at a big disadvantage mechanically because the muzzle can easily be deflected and not do any harm after that point, or for automatics the firearm can jam up on clothing and only be good for a shot or two. The thing going for the gunman is increased chances of incapacitation, as basically any common firearm has a chance to harm the central nervous system, while it is surprisingly difficult to do so with a knife.
Try this with a sword, it’s a stopper.
If. A dude thats. A skilled killer with a knife gets close enough to a guy with a gun. The knife guy wins.
You still got pull the trigger
A knife hits you or slashes you just fast enough to feel it while MOST bullets hit so fast that your body's slow response system and amped up adrenaline make it feel like a surreal thing that's just happening to your body. MEANWHILE, a knife jab or slash is much slower than a speeding bullet and hurts like hell bc your response system can actually register the pain in real time😒
4:20 "NO CAPES"
😂😂
Nice Incredibles reference.
Haha brilliant.
Is it a reference to a Pixar movie?
@@blindrocketeer7309 Edna from The Incredibles
3:57 We call this evasive maneuver the *prancing sissy foot technique*
It probably hurts to get shot with that. I would flinch too.
Lol if that's like the training guns that they use in the military that would really hurt. It's like a paint ball but with gun powder. They leave nasty welts. Though I bet he has a vest on underneath so it doesn't hurt as much
@@natea5318 he padded under his cloths
Do you want to get shot by that?
As a Revolver shooter who also trains in Kali knife fighting this whole video is just one big tutorial of what to do on either end. I just paid attention to the guy who won each round and took notes for what to do when I'm on that side. I never had an "oh crap!" moment of empathy for either guy when there was a clear winner, just a continuous response of "Interesting, I think I'll try that!" Ultimate conclusion is that 10 feet is the danger zone and you will take the business end of your enemies weapon with both the shooter being stabed and the knife wielder being shot 1:54
Proper combat mindset and the will to survive is key - no matter what happens, you have to stay in the fight till the end. You’re likely going to take damage, but you have to stay focused and stay in the fight. Adrenaline helps, but mindset determines the outcome.
I like the way this was done. I try to tell my friends ( who I try to help with training) that just because you have a gun ,doesn't mean your safe. Will definitely share . Thank u.
"Attack Evaded" - *if the instant the attacker is shot he immediately ceases all motor function and a rule like the deadman's 15 somehow does not apply.
Most people are going to run the moment the gun comes out, let alone what they do once shot.
You're running into hardened assassins regularly.
@@totalmetaljacket789 If i'm about to stab someone to death and he pulls a gun on me, i will think "Oh duck guess i'll bring him to hell as well" and proceed to kill him before he kills me.
@@rikardosilva1754 Like fuck you are, Mr internet hardass. You're running for your life.
@@totalmetaljacket789 different people mean different reactions.
Not everybody will have the same reactions.
@@juliomaldonado4028 Hence the word most.
In reality, this is a "first shot and done" scenario.
Some scenarios would have some, if not even multiple follow ups that could lead to a higher or lower chance of survival for either of them.
This video is best seen as what it is. A generalized isolated experiment using specific scenarios. Not to be applied into every real-life scenario but can be used as a reference point for the curious.
The only lesson is don’t stand in place and don’t evade straight backwards. The same applies to unarmed combat. 1st rule of combat is get out of the line of fire
Anyone who gives law enforcement a hard time for using deadly force needs to see this. You never know what the suspect is thinking and this shows how quickly things can go bad.
the majority of "law enforcement" escalate situations by being assholes. Even Memphis Tennessee Police Departments have changed the way they interact with the community because of the negative policing.
ruclips.net/video/y99kODtyVhk/видео.html
Anyone who gives PEOPLE a hard time about self defense needs to see this. More innocent people get locked up for defending themselves than cops get injured. Let's focus on the real issues please.
Thank you so much for doing this video!!! I have been arguing with friends about this for years and it shows just how much you need to train under stress with a gun. It also proves that I can get you with a knife a close range. Awesome thanks guys
It also proves you are dead, period.
Just had a situation involving a knife occur a few days ago. It didn’t escalate to the point where I needed to use my firearm but I learned a lot from the experience. If you perceive ANY threat at all, Weapon or no weapon, keep your distance and watch their eyes and hands.
Great demonstration I've told people this for over a decade.
One must learn when they should use hand to hand to create distance, so they may then use the handgun.
The goal is not to get stabbed. One can get cut and fight back, it sucks but you'll most likely live. If you are stabbed most likely you will die, because after the first stab, it will allow that split second to allow for more stabs.
One can train to do this, but one must train, and train in reality not what they perceive reality to be.
once again Great Demonstration.
That is why there is a 21 foot rule. Always keep a person with a knife or any other object 21 feet away from you because they can reach you before you can take them down due to adrenaline.
Alex. The 21 foot rule doesn't exist it was a bastardization of the original study of Leo draw time on a suspect with a knife it was never intended to be a default rule
ghost solider never knew that. But I would assume that this would still have some merit considering the assailant in the video got pretty close to the gunman at 21 feet.
ghost solider a rule... of thumb 😬
jsquared1013. Yes I forgot to add "of thumb " part
Alex. It all depends on skill level of the individual
I like this shows some good real world reaction but its a little miss leading because there's plenty of cases out there where the attacker has received a full magazine and continues to attack so just standing there and shooting once isn't going to do it.... Should've shown the ability to retreat and firing at the same time to keep the distance (maybe part 2 ????)
I think the idea of the research was to demonstrate how far you'd have to be, in order for you to get a shot off. Just to measure the minimum at which human reaction time can compensate
Yeah, this time make it bare handed defender to firearm attacker
Shoot the face then. If they dont hesitate to take your life, you should not be too.
@@khulagukhan The issue is that the head is a much smaller target than the torso. If you miss, you're hosed
"What are ya gonna do, stab me?"
Famous last words.
So, what if the knife has an unscrew-able pommel?
I'd run even if I was armed with a Beowulf .50 AR.
Worse, what if its an Abuela's Chancleta?
I'd be honored to be ended rightly
@@donflamingo795 But what if you had the chance to perform the greatest feat of all?
Dodging the pommel!
I love the controlled aggression in this exercise.
Something we should all learn about.
I love how the defender has literally zero clue how to use his off hand to stop or delay the knife from attacking him. Getting cuts to the arm is gonna suck but you'll live to see tommorow. The defender here is basically set up for failure.
He did master the art of gripping his belt buckle.
not necessarily, if any object comes at you the first thing you gonna do is put your hand in front of you despite not having any training,also of all the videos ive seen on knife attacks and two witnessed attacks, i dont think i ever saw someone trying to "slice" the victim, they all go for piercing attacks in the chest region wich the victim always, even if they die from defending themselves "wrong", put their hand towards the knife, this video simply didnt go for "REAL LIFE" scenarios, it was more like how the "training" teaches how to fight in both the defender and the attacker position, believe me the blood loss is the least effective way to kill someone with a knife.
Good video, but still lacking a few things. The different levels of training, equipment, and other factors that come into play should such an event happen. Sad thing is, many people don’t train for such an incident well under stress. Training, constant practice, and proper gear. That, and a little luck never hurts either.
@Guybrush Threepwood kid there's a flaw in your argument. The defender in this video well aware of the knife attack coming. And getting cut in your arm is not a death sentence. Also if your a knife attacker killing someone via blood lost doesn't help you out at all because the person that your attacking isn't initially incapacitated thus they can still fight back.
turn the same logic around, you dont see the attacker going for the gun arm either
I've only got one thing to say, during the attacks where the Armed guy was close, he did not use his left hand to block or take the hit of the knife. You cold also bring your leg up opposite your gun and kick the attacker in order give more time to draw. Getting cut on the arm, hand or leg is not fatal. In this instance it was not a fair reality check.
Tapps47 also noticed how he always waits until after the knife hits him to fire the shot.. In real life it would never take that damn long to get at least 3 rounds off
Pretty sure getting cut on the Arm and Leg is fatal? Ever heard of arteries? Dumbass.
statistically most stabbing are survivable. You go on the assumption that the knife wielder knows what he is doing and even then most cuts are superficial.
If you know that you're gonna get stabbed, would you prefer to take the stab with your head or chest rather than your arms or legs??? Dumbass.
Guy with the knife went for his neck
21 foot rule
Even though u shoot the guy, he still can stab you if he close enough.
Btw, nice video
And..........even if you stab the guy he can still shoot you.
In this situation the 21 foot rule doesn’t apply, the 21 foot rule is if the knife is already drawn vs a pistol in a holster. When both sides need to draw it more or less cancels out
@@1999glock if you stab he in the neck your final score will be 1/1 and not 0/1
One bullet can't stop the attacker unless headshot 😁
Does letting off 3 shots in quick succession still count as self defense in this case?
Me: (Walks into a gun store)
Clerk: how can I help you?
Me: I'd like to trade in my Sig p226 for the most tactical knife you got and maybe get some cash Back?
Clerk: sure but Why?
Me: because I saw a video of a guy get defeated by a knife when he had a gun... lol
😂
“bit of advice try using knifes next time. Works better for close encounters”
Leon Scott Kennedy
Resident Evil 4, best game.
Since I was 8 years old I realize in cqc knives had the upper hand. My father solidified that with his support. He always bought me knives and never spoke of guns. 18 years of only knives. Just found your channel today. My dad knew his shit. Thanks dad
I’m no redditor but this post gives off very strong r/iamverybadass vibes
@@hazardous0887 well that was my real life haha. Thanks I guess, if that sounds "badass". 😄
Honest to God my dad gave me 2 more knives today. We're both adults now. Just to give you an idea of what my dad is like haha
(We both own hundreds at this point 😆)
@Thomas B I've grown. We carry both 😉
Interesting. Good to know. Just shows that rigorous testing eliminates estimation errors. Great work.
I'd like to see the up close test with the gun being drawn first. Seems like up close, who ever acts first will win. At a distance, gun wins if you can draw it quickly.
I love how this reminds you that you have to be proficient in empty handed skills and to not draw when you’ve already been drawn on, oh and getting off the x.
You meant to say "just buy a gun because it's a force-multiplier" is bullshit? who knew?
now imagine that you don't even know an attack is coming...
also, why does the knife-guy stop attacking at long range before he's hit?.. Even after you're hit you can still attack because 1) he might have missed a vital spot or you're wearing a west, and 2) you can still attack on adrenaline. If you see a guy with a knife charging at you - remember that he might be on drugs and your bullets will have 0 effect on him (unless it a vital organ like heart that is hit). Also due to stress you might easily miss. So don't stand there like an idiot thinking you're a superman just cuz you have a gun! And move sideways damn it, not just backwards.
Дмитрий Хабаров eh the heart might not disable him instantly.
Which is why “stopping power” is really important on a handgun.
Maybe that .44 is bulky, and your average thug will be incredibly wounded if hit in the center body,
But due to the weight of the cartridge, it’ll work pretty darn well at creating force to stop the druggie
Bblurre really? I feel more like the defender wasn’t trying. He basically stood in the same place the entire time. They also should have done the same video with the man carrying the gun as the attacker to see the reality of the situation isn’t knife vs gun it’s advantage of knowing when the attack will actually start vs reaction defense
@@TraceLight This is a gigantic myth. Guns have "killing power," not "stopping power." The actual momentum of a bullet is insignificant compared to the momentum of a charging human body. All the damage comes from its energy causing tissue damage, not the weight of the bullet tossing the body back.
@@spamhere1123 Funny since the expert of all experts, Evan Marshall who literally wrote not just the book but the books on the subject literally named the book Stopping Power and rates handgun effectiveness in actual shootings of all kinds according to the ability to stop the attacker Ie. stopping power... He has been a contractor for just about every military and law enforcement agency on the planet at some point on precisely this subject...
his modest website: www.stoppingpower.net/about/marshall.asp
@@SaneAsylum See, Evan Marshall is using the phrase "stopping power" to actually mean "killing power", whereas the guy I was replying to is using it to mean "knockback power". Obviously, people who Marshall contract with understand what he means when he uses the phrase, but unfortunately the words "stopping power" tend to mislead laymen who don't fully understand how guns work.
In this case, it's a matter of semantics, but in the case of Phoenix Scp, it's a case of misunderstanding how a gun works.
Getting slashed in the arm is no real big deal in a fight, getting shot is. Yeah, maybe at close distance a surprise knife attack will be to the defender's disadvantage, but ultimately a gun will always surpass a weapon which requires strength and contact.
ruclips.net/video/KISscto8Xko/видео.html
First things first, always be aware of your surroundings. Stepping backwards can be the thing that ends you if you don't.
Didnt see the recommended move when defending against a knife with a handgun in melee range. Drop backwards and down to ground while drawing your weapon. This creates the most distance the fastest.
If The knife attacker is a skilled martial artist and reads your movement he can dive roll and land on you while cutting and stabbing, but that does seem to be best for regular street thug knife attackers
We were always taught to fire first round straight out holster from hip vs knife or gun from close even if you miss it will often throw them off so you can present and aim the follow ups. I know trainers hate this but it worked best when we did these same tests.
You still get about 50% chance of shooting your own legs rofl.
No need to aim, just point and shoot…might be problematic with kydex holsters though
@@davefletch3063 The whole guns being accurate weapons is a lie. You can miss even from 10 meters a few times.
@@cloudshifter actually, in police encounters, they miss most often in close range. Usually from pushing the weapon forward which causes the barrel to dip depending on the handle design
@@cloudshifter you just need to practice natural point shooting
what are you going to tell me? that I can dodge bullets?- when you are ready, you won´t have to
Always learn so much on these, this channel is amazing.
Glad to read this, thanks!
That’s why the 21 Foot Rule exists for Law Enforcement.
Awesome video! Keep training guys! Shooters get faster on that draw, Escrima/knife fighters get faster, be more bold! Pro-tip: Don't be afraid of trying to smack that gun away with your knife if you can. That way you might disable his hand, dodge a bullet and give yourself another opportunity for a strike. Shooters: Don't be afraid to shoot right from the hip after a draw if the knife fighter is approaching too fast. At such a close distance you can be just as accurate especially with practice.
For my former department 30 feet is authorized deadly force when dealing with a suspect armed with a knife
A viable threat is a threat at any distance.
Hell of a reality check this is and a scary one at that. A+++ for the video quality overall. Not sure if practical or realistic but when going into a potential dangerous scenario, would advise to have the gun out under a cloth, cocked and ready with the safety catch on. Covered with rag or jacket discretely until ultra sure you can re-holster and are completely in the safe zone. Would feel a lot safer(for an inexperienced civilian at least). Especially if solo or unable to see at least 25 feet around me in all directions. Or at least hand on the grip with the thumb breaker UN-clipped. Ready for action 50% quicker.
I (in my own un-professional opinion) believe that while the knife may make contact its important to note that knife wounds generally fail to bring about an immediate stopping force while a gunshot is quick to incapacitate, when it comes down to it you may get slashed or stabbed but you'll have a window to repeatedly fire on your assailant and in the end you will have stitches and they will have a body bag.
Excellent video! Especially showing how the difference between a good draw and a bad draw can mean your life.
Question: in the extreme close set, was one of the rules that the offhand couldn't defend? The defender kept it crossed over his chest while absorbing every slash. I am inclined to believe an offhand block, combined with a good draw, could have given the defender a win or two.
Either offhand blocks were disallowed for the test, or the defender has trained that way a long time.
I'm 2 years late, but I want to know!
It could aid of course, but a knife guy would have cut more than what was demonstrated as well. Also, the reactions to being wounded are a variable as well
@@davefletch3063
That didn't really answer my question. You agreed with me that of course it would help, and continued to say that all fights are different and knives really hurt. What I wanted to know was why the power of TWO hands wasn't employed. No demonstration that would put our theorizing to rest. Wasn't that the point of the exercise?
@@Abettorman 2 hands were not used because the point was to see the distance required to react,.draw and fire at a guy with a knife. It wasnt about defensive strategy. In real life, defense/ evade first, draw second
@@davefletch3063 Ok, so you say it was a rule. That did answer my question.
@@Abettorman quite a few years back they did this scenario with police. The knife guys were students of Dan Inosanto and he showed how far far it took police to pull their weapon and fire 2 shots. It was roughly 21 feet before they could succeed more often than fail. There are much better carry options today and ways to improve your odds, but the knife is still mostly King up close
I like the shooters “cross and vampire” technique. LOL. Learn to shoot from a retention position, dude.
I often perceive these types of test as incomplete; at least to the degree of answering "is a knife better in close proximity, than a gun" -- which is, stereotypically, the question being answered.
I believe a battery of tests are in order to accomplish meaningful results.
1.) Bladesman is aggressor, another bladesman is defender.
2.) Gunman is aggressor, another gunman is defender.
3.) Bladesman is aggressor, gunman is defender. (As pictured here, and often pictured)
4.) Gunman is aggressor, bladesman is defender.
Perform each test at variable distances -- as performed in this test -- and record results.
I percieve, and from personal tests, believe that the aggressor will always have the upper hand, regardless of preferred weapon.
However, using a gun on defense double, or triples, the probability of successful evasion or counterattack.
Thus, I percieved a firearm is infinitely more profitable to carry, regardless of situation -- as it pertains to aggressor/defender situations.
Likewise, even in the tests above, the gunman could have put good rounds into the assailants torso, most likely killing him - while his knife wounds could, easily, vary in severity.
Ya you hit him 2 times...guess what you got 9-15 rounds coming at you after..
Jake Lopes yeah and he managed to back away.
So it would be a few slashes at most.
Not fatal if medical attention is seemed immediately.
Now if the attacker grabbed him and repeatedly stabbed n slash him.
Then both would be getting fucked up.
Knife man be getting holes pumped in him.
Fire arm man be getting A lot of stab n slashes.
ANTIMATTER THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS
Check out active self protection knife attacks.
You be surprised how stubborn the human body can be when it's determined to survive while fighting or running.
It ain't like the movies.
ANTIMATTER THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS If the knife is swung the way it is in this video, an untrained person would have the sense to put something in the way so it doesn't touch your neck mate. I feel it'll take more skill for the knife guy to incapacitate the gun dude than the other way around. Because at that distance, so long as the gun is drawn, ready to fire and doesn't malfunction on you, it wouldn't take a marksman to just dump whole mag into the assailant. Whether dumping a whole mag is a good idea is a different topic XD
Did you watch a different video from me? From what I've seen and the police say the range at which the knife has the advantage is anything under 4 meters. If you want to talk about alternative situations you could throw the knife at longer ranges. This is with a holstered knife and gun, i don't really know why you're creating an unequal situation for
That's what I was considering too. First off, if your attacker is slashing you, you're in great shape... people don't realize that a lightweight knife blade doesn't have the inertia to really down a human with anything but a perfectly executed slash. Someone that is seriously trying to kill you is going to stab the shit out of you. If you get stabbed a couple times, you are still far from incapacitated unless the attacker gets really lucky. I would reckon, that in most knife versus gun fights, that the gun wielder is still going to shoot and incapacitate the knife wielder, even if the knife wielder has the initiative and lands the first blows.
I love the way he sprints - he´s getting really good traction.
This was very educational !
Key point: KEEP A DISTANCE! ;)
Wow what an experiment!!!!!!! From Greece 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷 God bless you all
The problem is with this though is that the guy with the knife is slicing rather than stabbing. Stabbing wounds are MUCH worse than sliced wounds, so in every scenario the dude with the gun would most likely kill the man with the knife and possibly survive all wounds enflicted.
I am not a doctor but I don't think that is true at all. A stab can be fatal if it punctures an organ in the lower body. A slash to arteries in the arms, legs or neck are fatal and I think easier and quicker for the attacker to do.
@@cellsec7703 Stabs are worse and what will actually happen to you.
What did I learned ? :
Pistol is better from distanse then point blank vs meele...
Welp I already know that, but nice video :D
No one wins in a knife fight, someone just gets cut less than the other guy...
Why don't people ever use the "Spartan Kick" when a dude is lunging at you?
I wonder the same thing.
@@thickseed I actually saw this happen a year or so ago when an ANTIFA member attempted to charge at a independent RUclips reporter. LOL. It was actually crazy amazing. The dude charging completely left his defense open and the RUclipsr, which I am guessing is trained in some MMA, straight up swift Spartan kicked his ass backward to the ground.
I don't see alot of this happen in street fights, which is why I am curious.
Why not incorporate lateral movement ?
The defender cannot maximize distance from the threat moving laterally. The attacker needs to close distance as fast as possible to get the first hit in. The situation might be different with large objects for cover/concealment in the real world, but this is showing the worst case scenario. At 21ft attacker does get shot quite a few times, but still managed a couple strikes. Totally different if it's gun on gun, or a crowded environment. The main point is the more distance you have or create, in whatever way is possible, your chances of surviving go up. Also, PRACTICE your draw! Do it every day. A fist full of jacket and some sausage fingers got him "stabbed" a few times. You probably only get one shot at the real deal. Only speaking for myself, that's a contest I hope never happens, but I mean to absolutely win if it does.
N0stalgicLeaf I can agree with many of your points
I’m just saying it is proven when you maneuver laterally against a forward moving attacker it gives the extra time for distance and to draw as the attacker must slow with change of direction as compared to speeding up going forward. It also gives the defender increased momentum than retreating backward. I’m not saying it works in every situation. But it would have been nice to see them run that iteration
Exactly. In lots of striking combat sports you'll hear your instructor going "Don't just step back. Cut angles goddamn it"
This would work if you had timed a strike. But from someone closing distance before attack is a different story. A lateral movement would keep you still within closing pressure.
In the Filipino martial art of "kali/Arnis/Ekrima" it was always taught that without the gun man looking in the direction of the attacker and being caught off guard usually in the distance from three meters the knife wins. Why is that? Most might ask, it's because first some things to consider. One is, is the gun chambered? Two, is the gun even loaded with the clip? Three is from the time of the apparent shock of seeing someone run towards you (maybe even screaming for added shock effect) from three meters away and being able to succesfully take the gun out the holster, cock it, aim and squeeze the person with the knife is already body to body (pedestrians, outside factors or other things in the way included).
I don't know about anyone else here watching this video but there are other videos out there on youtube that show blind tests done in town squares and even in buildings that prove this fact. On the other hand I like this video a lot because it also talks about the gunman stepping back or moving back to avoid the knife attack which I never have even put into consideration. With this said I really enjoyed watching this video and hope to see more cool stuff from this channel as I am new to it and just found this today, cheers from Italy!
It still all depends on each person's reflexes individually
Ome should also mention that it usually takes more than 1-3 shots to bring down an attacker so if someone runs at you with a knife you would probably need some more time
What if u shoot them in the head?
It's close range your gae or doesn't drive straight if you can't hit that even with a quick draw
@@Migixkem even headshots dont always work. They of course have a higher probability of stopping an attacker with just 1 or a few shots there are reported cases and security cam footage showing robbers who seemed unphased by several head shots
0:51 does he have to be stationary like can't you retreat while reaching for the gun or just reach for his arm? it's not like they're in closed space
I think these videos are very cool & are obviously nuanced because a real-life scenario just isn't possible since you cannot accurately replicate REAL LIFE without making things very complicated. For what they are worth, I find them very insightful; just because you brought a knife to a gunfight, it does not, in fact, mean you'll lose!
Sadly, I feel it possible for both to lose no victor, just because you get stabbed or shot does not mean you cannot still fight. Killing power and stopping power are not always one and the same.
@@denversbestdjs430 I would have to agree!
Oh, can you credit the song composer, by the way? Dig that track.
Orion Warcry, Titan Slayer
The knife guy looks like he'd be good in an action movie, while the gun guy needs to stop right now and go back to bagging groceries.
actually at demonstration 04/06, even with the left arm injury, the shooter could have easily squeeze the trigger
We are watching this throught the eyes [HUD] of an android.
*Detroit: Become Human*
Directions:
Knife guy - run as fast as you can to the defender.
Defender - tip toe away to make distance.
I like how they show how things can go wrong. At 0:33 removing cover garment fails, which can happen.
I think the CCW community is a little too tied up in the "HOLY SHIT THE GUY'S RIGHT IN MY FACE, DRAW OR DIE!!1!" scenario. Conflicts like this wind up, play out... words are exchanged, there is distance. You don't walk around the corner and suddenly it's "knife in your face, draw or die". At least not in the extreme majority of actual self-defense scenarios.
The moral of the story in this video? Keeping your distance will save your life a thousand times before dumping all your spare money into paying some "ex-special forces operator" to make you into a commando with a flawless draw. I'm not saying don't practice, but actual survival hinges more on tactical knowledge and situational awareness than pure gunplay skill.
@Brian That distance issue varies a lot. For an average civilian or security professional, it is very different. I have been couple times in a situation, when a bigger guy chose intimidation tactic and closed in right in front of my face. It's a common bully tactic, to intentionally push directly into other persons "personal space". Those times it was pretty easy to talk them walk away (drunks) and nothing bad happened. In theory that can happen and he has a knife (there are videos of such incidents). If you are in crowded place, there may not be a way to draw distance. On the street, situation is very different or for a police officer, who often has a partner to back him/her up. There are ways to make space for what ever action, but those need practice too.
In my country, there is no CCW option for non-security professionals. Even cops carrying off-duty is on a limited trial period. Before it used to be forbidden. Also using a firearm for self defense at home is more than likely to finalize into situation where you are sitting in jail for excessive use of force and manslaughter and you will never see your guns again. What I do with ex-SF guys and such, has very little to do with every day security, while there is that too. Mostly for me it's part of shooting hobby that supports my reservist position, which is bit more active than most people's. Those are also interesting social encounters with like minded friends doing stuff we like and meeting people from different countries.
I feel like you should probably do some kind of fighting back before/while drawing instead of trying to highnoon these guys.
I think it was dog brothers, but they had a video and had the gun guy headbutt and then drop to their back and had better results, now it's not 100%, but seemed to work, also they were going full blast and really knocking each others out.
Actually, that is exactly what you should do, unarmed combat is not taught enough, so people in general do not have confidence in their own abilities, so the mind goes to getting their gun, when does the average Cop or Soldier ever train at knife fighting/sparring, maybe a couple of hours in basic training, in this instance they both knew there was going to be a knife attack, what can you do? firstly, train against this scenario, and not in a lame Karate style way, properly, with intent, stab proof vests can really help give you a couple of seconds, if someone is going to be in a high risk environment, they should be considered.
i havent watched it yet!!!!
but what i can say so far: A gun CANNOT defend you against a stabbing attack, thats basic officer training at least for us. If it comes to it, and someone charges at you with murder on his mind, you get taught to unload a whole clip on him as fast as possible, to use the force to slow him down giving you a bit of a chance. If he gets shot, he can still charge and stab you(the officer) to death, nothing you can rly do but pray that he doesnt hit lethal. A shot in the heart gives you 10 sec till blackout, multiple shots in the chest, often even 40 seconds for finishing his attack. Of course for that he actually needs to charge at you, making his body go into that mode. The magic number to draw and shoot your weapon is 7 meter - from the point of putting hand down, draw, pull up and fire, the attacker comes 7 meter closer. 9 meter is the number to get a proper shot that actually hit him, and goes where its sposed to be.
That counts for the ammunition we use which is regular 9mm full metal, since these dont(which actually is dumb) necessarily kill someone as fast - due to the ripping effect which aint existent with FMJ, but penetrate.
Our officers learn to not use their gun, since in europe we all are a bunch of pussies and thats the reason why no one has respect of our police which is very bad - if someone tries to kill you we are sposed to shoot in his legs....like can you believe this??? that is hard to hit and more or less impossible in such situation.
That being said: Thats why cops dont defend or use tasers and "brutally" shoot him down, i hope you have a bit of FCKNG Clarity now!
YES IT CAN GUNS ARE BETTER
@@heatherwright5726 in the US maybe, If you are unable to read - nothing to worry, ITS normal for a US Citizen(If you are one) - you should have enough information now, that for fact IT can be different since AS WE call IT "cave-ammo", Deals a shit Ton of damage -> while different Situation, Just Like 5,56 etc.....
A normal handgun with typicall ammunition cant defend you against a Person with a knife, you shoot gut He charges - Stab Stab Stab Stab Stab and you Look Like a 50y-old carpet which gone through 20 families
"boo hoo why didn't he pepper spray his legs?!?!"
Relevant even more these days. Look at the outrage over Philadelphia.
I'm not an expert by any means, but since this is RUclips, I'll give my partially informed opinion regardless.
Generally speaking, I think it's probably easier to keep going and eventually bring your firearm to bear after being slashed with a knife, even multiple times, as opposed to being shot a few times with a gun and continuing to effectively attack someone using a knife. I know there are exceptions and that people generally don't just drop dead instantly after being shot, but I'd take being slashed over being shot.
I've never been shot, nor have I ever shot anyone, but I have been attacked and cut with broken bottles and pint glasses, I know people who have been slashed and stabbed with knives, and I have seen people being stabbed and slashed with knives. It's no joke, but I don't think it's anywhere near as debilitating as the massive trauma of a gunshot wound. Add to that the psychological impact of hearing a gun go off and I think even if the knife attacker has the initial advantage, it's not over until the fat lady sings, so to speak. In a few of these scenarios, the defender got slashed, and the attacker got a gunshot wound to the chest. I know what I'd rather have.
One thing I've heard about defending against a knife attack is that people get into trouble because they just want to avoid being cut. They're not prepared to take a slash on their arm to defend their neck, or to grab the guy's hand and risk cutting themselves on his knife in the process. I think a similar mindset seems to be prevalent with this whole debate: that if the guy with the knife gets the first hit in, it's all over. I don't think that's true, and it makes training for these kind of events very one-dimensional. The other thing is that you'd be surprised how much clothing affects the ability of someone to actually injure you with a knife. If a cut from a slashing knife attack is usually about 3/4 of an inch deep, 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch of clothing on top of your skin will actually make some difference. The jacket the defender is wearing in the video looks like it might actually offer some protection.
In my limited experience, however, the reality is that people who use a knife in these kinds of close confrontations don't tend to announce the fact that they've got a knife, and deliberately try to keep it out of view. Think straight arm, hand below the waist, with the elbow kept against the body and the shoulder kept relatively still when stabbing. No-one is coming out with those types of extravagant slashes to the neck and face. Most people think they're being punched, not stabbed, until they see the blood.
Weapons are meant to be felt, not seen. *thumbs up*
@@tearstoneactual9773 Exactly, well put.
I was gonna say the same exact thing lol
The quality of this vid is outstanding
Fantastic!
Thanks!
Why i love my knives! I have to carry one on my motorcycle bc i ride threw a lot of country roads. Ppl are not your only threat.
Man is the most dangerous animal of all. Here in the Great North Woods of New Hampshire most people think black bears are the most dangerous. False. 1 = humans, 2 = moose, 3 = dogs, 4 = deer. Fact.
@Butwhymaybe in the past. Can light them up nowadays
I'd like to see the first test done again with variances on hand to hand combat. 6 for someone unknowledgeable, 6 for someone with minor knowledge (maybe a boxing class or a few months of karate), and then 6 with a black belt of any martial art (told to use pistol to see their reaction, not to actually react using their martial art).
Another variance for testing would be direction of movement away from X.
Moving laterally may show better results as it doesn't allow the attacker to lunge forward directly, gives the defender an element of surprise, and in total may chance results of even the 1m, though I doubt it
7m test: attacker should be instructed to follow through, meaning not to slow down because he doesn't want to tackle the defender. Set up mats for it for safety, you'll see a lot more failures.
Let’s face it
We all knew the knife attacker would win
Winston The Wacky In close range maybe.
You think one slash from a puny knife to your neck, in anything but the perfectly unlucky situation is going to down you instantly? First off he should be stabbing. Second, even if knife-bro landed a hit, his ass is still likely to get shot. Knives aren't magic insta-kills like in CoD.
Brian Why don't u join army and say that to evryone?
Already did eight years Dark Phantom, cute comment though.
Arma 3 doesnt make you a military veteran.
Dat jacket is a waste of time lol
Open carrying isn't possible everywhere.
It's called concealed carry
I conceal carry under a shirt.
Exactly, the defender gets stabbed while still searching for his gun in the pocket....
Defender "WHERE THE FUCK IS MY GUN?!"
Attacker *stab stab stab*
Apparently placing a weight in the corner of the jacket can make it easier to brush off when grabbing your firearm, but that's not what they were testing here.
a top level knife fighter's here.
With all the respect I must notice the guy with a knife did it at suboptimal trajectory.
He's constantly been trying to slash, and do it via very long blade path. Stabs are faster to perform, and more effective.
So does not make a difference guns are better than knifes
A knife attack will win 9/10 times in real life. I personally witnessed a knife assult in real time. The attacker was 6'2 240lbs and it was at night and the attacker approached the victim from his left side while he was withdrawing money from an ATM. The attacker stabbed him on his left oblique and stomach and managed to slammed him on the ground and continued to stab the man before fleeing. The attack lasted 12-15 seconds...yes, seconds! The crazy thing about it when everyone including myself rushed to aid him(because it happened at a train station) the victim had a conceal gun on him. That showed me knifes will win 99% of the time if the attack is a sneak attack which most knife assults are. The victim survived but, was stabbed 7 times.
WEAR A STAB PROOF VEST AT ALL TIME!
Sneak attack will most likely always prevail
video: two spec ops veteran
s
veteran: can't even pull out his gun. lmao
These are quite relevant videos. Pointing out that the feeling of safe and secure is relative and that you may need more distance than expected. However, people will not reveal the knife until the very last moment, and they will close in until you are within the no-escape zone. There is also a factor that, even if mortally wounded, you may still be able to attack for some time after the shots are placed.
There is a mortifying video on the net with one fellow attacking several police officers and kill one and wound others despite being shot at. It is a chilling reminder that whatever you do, you are better judged by 12 than carried by 6. Don't let them come close if you can avoid it. Knives are just as deadly up close.
Music ??
ikr its so good any idea ?
Titan slayer-Orion warcry
oh thank you :D
Классные видео👍🏻
Here's the tip: in a situation like this, the moment you see the knife you shall immediately fall on your back on the ground and try to fend the attacker off with your legs while pulling the gun. I wonder why they didn't try it.
*Like # 491.*
Like #49 for your comment
Doggo Wolf.
In case anyone is wondering, the song being played is "Orion Warcry" by Titan Slayer
this is why you should always carry ballistic shield when carrying a knife for protection
Yea and maybe one of those huge suits EOD specialists use would also do
We did this in the military!! The guy with the gun is drawing to slow, mabey on purpose!! @ 10feet u can easily pop a round off assuming ur holster doesnt have a difficult strap to unlock.. also u can drop - flat on ur back on pop off rounds that way, even at 3 feet u will survive!!