Harley Repair is a FIGHT to DIY (Harley Doesn't Want You Touching it!)
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- Опубликовано: 2 май 2024
- Harley repair is a fight to work on your own motorcycle, Harley-Davidson and every other manufacturer out there doesn't want you to be able to repair your own motorcycle. Proprietary software, warranty concerns, illegal language in warranty coverage policies, the list goes on and on but the bottom like is Harley-Davidson wants you in their service departments. Right to repair is a fight for you to have the freedom to make your own Harley repair or have your Harley repair done at a shop of your choosing outside the dealer. If you can't perform a Harley repair yourself you don't truly own the motorcycle.
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What are your thoughts on having the right to repair your own Harley? Does the government have our back on this one forcing manufacturers to let us choose how and where to repair?
I think I read somewhere that John Deere was putting the screws to Farmers and not letting them in on the information to repair their tractors....
Guess I spoke too soon I started leaving comments before you finished..😲😁
what happens when the bike is 10 years old and the dealership no longer support them? when them electronic do dads are no longer available to purchase?
I have a 2002 and 2013 sporsters and a1978 lowrider that is 90 percent stock I will be able to keep them running until I can't ride anymore .A lot of the regulations that were in place were done away during the Trump administration the corporation has used this government restrictions to rob there costumers and to change their format so you can't do your own work that is why they are losing sales they want to build disposable bikes
@@jefferyberridge1444 there is a big concern over in Europe. The EU is trying to ban motorcycles from a certain age, you will not be allowed to restore or repair them they saying that they were going to be scrapped, there was something on somebody’s RUclips channel from the UK last week or the week before about that he had heard something, taken our human rights away from us, I passed my test when I was 17 many many years ago, I’ve always enjoyed riding , the thing I don’t like about motorcycles nowadays is that they are putting devices on them to control how you ride,
People that have ridden these type of bikes , Will probably come on stuck, when something fails on the bike, as they have not learned to ride the bike themselves as such, Too many electronic devices on motorbikes nowadays, Unless we know when it fails, you have to take it to the dealer to get repaired, another great expense, stay safe ride free,
It is just another reason to keep an older Harley running.
Working on evo softail as we speak!
And as always enjoying minute of it!!!
Totally agree!!!
Hell yeah🤘
Absolutely they are a lot easier to get running, your likely not going to pull one of these out of a barn in 50 years and be able to get it running with all the electronics.
Love the Evo softails!
Stay carbureted my friend,, Stay Carbureted!!!
Time will tell. I look at the new screen on the 2024's like a laptop. 6 or 7 years of harsh environments and bouncing and jolting they will need complete replacement. Not for me.
You and I had the same the thought about it too!
I believe that the time to failure will be closer to end of warranty plus one year, just saying.
Run away. Don’t spend money on technology you did not ask for you don’t understand or you simply just don’t want because you have a weird feeling about it. Your bike should last longer than your marriage.
Did i miss a new regulation? Seems everything after 22 has a screen for guages. Major failure point in the trucking industry
I WILL STICK WITH MY EVER RELIABLE EVO OF 37 YEARS AND SH IS STILL GOING STRONG. 🇦🇺🍻
That's awesome to hear! We know we are in trouble when you can't get parts for an Evo!
25yrs and 42,000 trouble free miles on an Evo WideGlide.👍
Yep, still running my 98 1340 Evo and maintaining it myself.
This is a great engine. I have two carbureted 2005 sportster Evo and a 1995 Dyna EVO. love riding them both. One 2008 FLHTCUI twin cam that will need extensive maintenance due to the cam chain tensioner problem and the 88 compensator in a 96 CID, clacking at take off. Nice heavy bike but, the evo is the best. I use Amsoil 10-40 with Motorkote at the correst ratio no lifter problems yet runs cool. in the Evo's and the Ams V twin in the cam. Cut the engine heat in half.
Me too. No interest in the new ones.
The issue I have with Harley, I have a 98 Heritage which was my fathers, if u want any work done on the bike, my dealer will not even look at it because it is over 10 yrs old. I really think that sucks because it is a Harley. My father purchased that bike at that dealer. It’s a damn shame what they do to the consumer.
That's why Independents ( mom and pop ) dealers are so vital. Give them your business not the Stealerships.
I will stick with my old Pan Head
This new stuff makes that pan look a lot better!
Old school dude👍
I won’t be fixing any of them because I won’t be buying ANYTHING NEW !!!! Old scoots are going to be our bread and butter from here on out, buy up all the old scoots you can get a hold of.
Good Wisdom for sure!!!
Amen brother, keep the old bikes alive and start collecting!
With ya on that...
@@GixxerFoo
Going the way of John Deere. No thanks.
Yes, most have not heard of that mess over the same issue.
Yeah it was a mess but they won the lawsuit after a heated battle.
Oh it was a mess too, they fought hard and won but for how long before they find some way to skirt it.
With the moco being run by a shoe salesman, his running the company into the ground is not only literal but metaphoric as well.
I was just thinking same thing
I refuse to buy any vehicle that needs an ECU, especially Harleys. What happens when Harley refuses to work on your bike once it's 10 years old like their policy is right now? They'll refuse to allow the software IP out and once your 10 year old bike dies, it becomes a brick.
So carburated Harleys for me.
10 years old? I've heard of dealers who won't work on bikes over 5 years old.
We are pretty lucky we got some smart guys that ride bikes and also program computers, there is basically black market software out there where guys have copied the software off.
Hey Gixxer that's why I won't buy another new Harley after having to buy a map to set up new exhaust after spending thousands on my bike what a rip off got rid of it and going to keep my 15 road glide and do all my own work.
Screw them they are pushing people away v&h tunner is all I need.
All The best from NZ,,,🇳🇿
I feel you it's ridiculous with all the software, they aren't just going to turn that over without some back and forth. I love the late Twin Cams, after 2016 would be the last year of touring bikes I would go with.
@@GixxerFooglad you said that 🤔I have a 14 Streetglide and 05 Deuce 🤙
I learned on my first new Harley (in '98) that my warranty wasn't worth anything, and I might as well not even ask about a recall. Fortunately, I could work on it myself, so I bought the manuals and spent my money on specialty tools instead of expensive labor. When I bought my '06 Street Glide, I totally disregarded the warranty and rebuilt the motor after 46 miles. Never regretted it. So what happens when your bike is 10 years old and Harley won't work on it anymore? There will certainly be a lag before the aftermarket catches up, but where there's a will, there's a way!
Warranty doesn't mean crap if you ask me, they want to control the narrative on the warranty. I would say you did the right thing in your situation!
Why do you morons buy piece of shlt Harleys when you know they're trash and need half the bike replaced with aftermarket?
This is one of the reasons I stay with my shovel, evo, and twin cam .
Now that's a line up to have in the garage, I could drink beer and just stare lol.
I'll stick with my old Road King ! If I don't feel like working on it , off it goes to one of the independent shops I deal with , no dealer needed
That's the beauty of these older bikes is you can do it yourself or there are plenty of trusted indy shops that will get you taken care of.
My #1 reason for buying my Evo was to avoid the very issues you were talking about. Everytime I go to a rally I see these $50k plus bikes and I think about the chopper craze of a couple decades ago. Everyone had to have a chopper of some kind. They were overpriced and hard to ride. Now I pick up performance parts for next to nothing. Electronics suck and should be a minimal intrusion on your ride, not the whole show...
You can build a killer Evo engine for the cost of a few months payments on this new stuff and I guarantee it will be more reliable mile after mile!
I’m liking Harley less and less these days. I’m not a performance junkie. I’ll stick with my old evo as long as I can.
The Evo's with a hot cam are plenty of power, they will take you anywhere you want to go.
I will stick with my Twin Cam Softail. There is absolutely nothing on it I can't work on or fix and I love the simplicity of the design. I still love that scooter as much as the first time I rode it in 2001. I don't want or need anything else. I am sure that a lot of the EVO people feel the same way.
There's nothing better than a motorcycle you can work on yourself without having to do what you can and then have to take it to the dealer to have something to finish it.
i haven't seen a new bike i even WANT.
If I can’t work on it, I don’t want it. You’re correct on the part of when you don’t want to buy the tools,you help support a private shop that will.
Support the local guy and keep the lights on for them! I would rather do that then feed the corporate machine.
I ride around on one of Harley’s ancestors,an 02 E.G. grandad standard with a C.V.
To each their own,best of luck.
There are still a good number of older chopper shops out there.
I’ll ride this old dog while it’s still legal to.
In Ca,you cant order a deluxe rebuild kit from C.V. performance.
They have it set up to where I cant even use a debit card,to order and have it shipped to a buddy in another state.
The billing address for my card would need to be from another state as well.My point is that if they have already reached in a put that kind of a grip on me,for a damn carb rebuild kit,I can only imagine where the future of any recreational vehicle is going.
My concern is their next move on the government level is going to be removing vehicles over so many years from the road. I can see Harley and other vehicle manufacturers lobbying for that very thing! It's already happening in Europe!
@@GixxerFoo It's for this exact reason why it is so important to elect the right Sheriff in your county. Being an elected official they have an executive power to nullify any law they deem unconstitutional. And by extension no other policy imposers, I mean law enforcement agencies can enforce those that were nullified. Also, look up US Code Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 13, Sec. 242. Cornell Law School. And while you're there look up Jury Nullification and spread this info like wildfire! The more people that know these things the better we insulate ourselves from the tyrants. Keep 'em greasy side down good sir.
Unbelievable. It's worse than I thought. I'm in Pennsylvania and go to public government meetings quite often and see why this is possible. People are freaking clueless. Good luck, hope your fuel mixer works good.
Your right 100 percent. The old days of Harleys are over. The Davidson's kids sold there soul for greed...
It's for sure not about the ride anymore and it's sad.
I'm 68, and have a 97 Heritage that I plan to keep for the duration! Ride free while you can! Seeya!
The late model Evo's are awesome bikes, for sure worth hanging onto!
If could buy an older Harley...I WOULD. I own an '07 Dyna FXDB...the beginning of the EFI wave...I'd like an EVO sometime in the future!
I'm more and more happy with my 99 Supper Glide .
Thinking carbs, intake manifolds and 6 cylinder chevy points will become popular.
I made a comment about this on another RUclips with the automatic transmissions and got a lot of push back from owners of DCT bikes and electronic clutches. We are going to be owned by dealerships if we can't perform work on our own bikes anymore. If you want to ride in the future you will need to start looking for bikes you can work on yourself.
Don't get me started on the electronic and DCT stuff, guys in the service department will tell you to stay away from that stuff. Just like cars with all wheel drive, they know better cause they see it every day.
I have a 98 ultra, first thing I bought was a shop manual. So far nothing I couldn't fix in my garage.
Ain't it great?
& every part can be sourced on line both new and used too!
Say what you want about the Harley-Davidson company, but they did make a great shop manual & parts catalog for the motorcycles.
Good reason for building your own, or buying and rebuilding used bikes.
I think we are about to see a booming market in older bikes!
@@GixxerFoo
Oh ya. With great aftermarket tuners and marine grade sound equipment with built in screens. Blue tooth a smart phone and you are styling. Including maps. So ya
I'm glad I'm old and so is my Dyna. 😄
I’ve been on Harley’s for almost 50 years, I have always built my own and repair them, when a dealer in the early 90s told me he didn’t bother with shovels or pans, wouldn’t even get gaskets for them I lost any use for them,support your aftermarket shops
Harley has always been that way, they just want what ever the current engine is and that's it anymore.
With Harley, the price of everthing keeps going up, even dealers repairing the newer bikes with a laptop. This is insane. Don't buy the new Harleys.
Love my old 2006 cream puff RG more and more.
This new stuff is making the older bikes much more valuable, just like everyone wants early 2000's vehicles now.
I'm with you. I'm planning on keeping my 2006 ultra classic. It has 124000 miles. It cost me a little repair money once in a while. But it usually wouldn't be 2 payments on a new Bike and then I'm riding free again.
Be careful, Ride safe.
@@GixxerFoo And my local indy has everything I need to keep it going, Thank for your vids!
With what Harley Davidson charges to work on your bike you don't have much choice but to work on your bike or fine another shop that's affordable.
Labor rates at $100 plus and hour, that includes just changing a tire plus the cost of a tire. Any indy shop will sell you a tire and charge 30 bucks for a mount and balance, maybe 50 if you have a touring bike with bags to remove.
$155 per hour labor rate at my local dealership in Ohio @@GixxerFooI just had tires replaced and 10,000 service for $2100.
I bought a new 21 PAS when they came out. I’ve recently renamed it “Big Mistake” because you CANT do it yourself, and the service fees are insane.
Dealer labor rates are insane, not saying indy shop labor is cheap but it's nothing compared to what the dealers charge.
😎👍
Big thumbs up for the channel...
Big thank you my friend!
I guess I feel a bit fortunate. I've had Wesley Chapel HD address my 2005 Sporty replacement of both tires (dry rotted and almost 10 years old - my fault for not correctly interpreting the DOT codes when I bought it 😖). Had them flush the fork fluid as well, since I had no prior maintenance history provided from the PO. We then discovered the front laced wheel was rusted from the inside out, so new rim, bearings, tube, trued and balanced. Shortly after that, the rear caliper was locking up unpredictably while riding to work, so they're taking care of the flush, new disc, pads and caliper. I realize it's more than I wanted to spend, but simply didn't feel comfortable dealing with it. And I feel they've taken good care of me, especially since other places turned the bike away for being too old. ♥️🤘💪
The EVOLUTION motor was the last engine you could work on yourself. Today's motorcycles are a collection of government regulations on 2 wheels. HD is a super expensive excersize in government regulations. With HD electronics are expensive to replace not fix. ABS is a$2,400 repair. Too much electronics for me. Of course people are not tuning up their bikes today. After all we don't have points to adjust anymore.
You are absolutely correct, the Evo was the last basic tool box motor out of Harley. Even the Twin Cam needs some special tools you have to buy but you can still work on it in your garage. Actually get the tools on amazon pretty cheap, they will do the job but I wouldn't make a living with them.
Same here keeping my 2010 SG
Those bikes are just where it's at, they look good, sound good and they will do it all!
Glad my newest bike is an 09 , I would never buy a new bike because all the software needed to work on the piece of shits . It's more gratifying to me to be able to work on my own bike and have instant results with minimal wallet impact , and I don't trust anyone working on my shit , I've been working on bikes for 30 years , I'll die by my own wrench , my 2 cents
I am the same way, it's so much easier to diagnose a mechanical issue vs having to eliminate a software issue or the dreaded part of the circuit board slowly failing!
We have 100% control.....with out purchasing power. You don't have to buy a HD. It is amazing that people would even consider buying such an antiquated motorcycle.
We really do and Harley knows that, they went from trying to make volume sales to taking lower sales numbers but profiting more on every bike sold.
Trouble with most Harley-Davidson Dealerships is they don’t want to work on older models. I’ve got specialty tools from my Shovel days.
They don't teach them diagnostics anymore, they just want warranty work and Screamin Eagle kit installs.
Another reason to buy a blockhead. I can work on them and can get parts from other than the Stealership and get things done cheaply.
I'm enjoying watching Harley and other auto manufacturers slowly put themselves out of business. Yes there will be a certain amount of people who will always have to buy the newest thing but given the way things are going they're becoming a smaller group. Harley is on the cusp of calling a tow truck cause roadside repairs won't be possible. I'll stick with the older bikes, tons of aftermarket parts and a healthy community of DIYers.
That small group of buyers isn't going to be enough to generate the revenue all these companies have been used to. It's unsustainable in the long run, they have got to get back to volume sales or like you said they will be out of business.
@@GixxerFoo exactly, the credit card bikers as I refer to them. I only go to a dealer when I need a part that they only have, and that's only after I'm sure no one else makes it, or I can't make it myself. I think it speaks volumes as I'm not the only who would rather spend money on my bike anywhere else but a dealer. I do as much as I can to help others, if they provide the parts I'll do the work, not for free mind you but enough to cover my time. Also if you're interested in learning how to wrench I'm there to help with that too, but now things are going the way of software and mass electronics I'll be out, not interested in chasing sensors and connections to find a problem which may or may not be the whole problem. But I think the interesting thing will be resale value after a few years of bouncing around and exposure to various weather conditions.
I don't think Harley cares who repairs it after the warranty is out. The dealers profit from repair, not the manufacturer. The manufacturers only want to develop and manufacture the product as cheap as possible. They do protect the technology for profit, and change it often, dealers also have to pay for new equipment, training, and tech fees. Consumers need to think about these issues and quit buying the new shit. Keep buying used bikes and support your local independent bike shop. My 1996 Electra glide is going fine.
They want you back in dealer service departments and then the dealer orders Harley parts. It's a crazy cycle and honestly being a dealer isn't all gravy, Harley is very demanding on a business owner. That's why most Harley dealers are owned by big companies with a hand in a lot of things, they can afford to keep up with the demands.
@@GixxerFoo You are correct, Harley does strong arm its dealers, especially during the last 15 years. Many of the old family dealerships had to sell out. Ford is now doing the same thing. Requiring huge updates to facilities that the small dealership can never recover the cost of. I believe things began going down hill when the leadership that organized the buyback from AMF started retiring. Those that replaced them did not have Harley oil in their veins and did not understand the brand. This problem continues today.
This has been a mainstay in the automotive repair world for decades- all the manufacturers'' have been finding ways for owners not to be able work on their own vehicle.
It's been horrible with cars, but we have found ways around it. Motorcycles just take longer to catch up to that but it will eventually happen.
Ain't that the truth!
I remember in the mid 80's thinking I would change out a heater core on a late model mustang as I had done several times before on older vehicles.
After having to undo and drop the steering column, take out the dashboard to get access to the ac/heat housing were the heater core was right behind the glove compartment but had no access cover,
I looked to the sky & hollered out "WHY!"
& from then on I knew it was on purpose.
If you can’t afford to buy a new Porsche, you can’t afford to buy a used Porsche.
I’m building my own bikes these days. No electronics. No cruise control. No ABS bullshit. No Traction Control bullshit. No computer controlled direct injection. No digital dash bullshit.
That's what I like too! I don't need all that either, traction control is all in the wrist!
Dealer told me 4200ish when my 06RK front cam bearing started making noise,I diy(ed) it with a Fueling Cam chest kit 525 cams saved about 2500 and learned alot .Found a guy with a Dynojet machine and he tuned my fuel injection.I felt great staying away from the "stealership".
That's awesome! It's really not too hard to do if you take your time and follow a service manual with some mechanical knowledge. It's a good feeling to do it on your own and not be out 2500 bucks.
I have no problem fixing my 2017 FLHTP. I’ve done all the maintenance, including ABS bleeding and performance upgrades myself. The computer modules and software cost a little money but it’s cheaper than paying shop rate.
You're doing it right! Anything is worth saving your money and staying out of the shop!
If you own it, you should be able to have access to the tools and parts to fix it. Especially if it’s out of warranty.
Exactly! They are trying to make it as hard as possible to do so!
Right to repair is what made Harley Davidson the company that it is today. Being able to take old bikes, fix them up, modify them helps Harley stay in business.
That is very true! It literally got everyone in the garage and created a huge aftermarket!
I have just posted a comment. I wonder whether it’s going to be remove,
I have settings to allow all comments since we believe in free discussion here!
I agree that we should be allowed to work on our own bike ,and I also believe they shouldn't be able to jam you up by making the tools ridiculously over priced,but like others here have said buy up the older bikes at least you can work on them.
I'm looking at getting an ignition module and the lights/security module for my Sporty. Plus a carb rebuild pack, just in case. I have no desire to get a 'new' bike.
I run a privately owned shop. We can access the ecm on the new bikes. EPA is the biggest hold back on tuning the new bikes. Yes the system is expensive to buy and doesn't make sense for home use on one bike. But small shops do have access to the software. We can flash the ecm or even unlock it without your phob and reset it to a new one in the case you lost your original one. I'm not saying that one change in the future but as of right now we can do anything Harley can to the bikes.
More people need to know this and support and support the indy shops. Quit getting forked over by corporate owned dealers.
I'll stick with my 02 WG3 old school rules ✌️
2002 in my mind I can still see those bikes sitting on the show room floor, now it's literally old school.
John Deere tried this and got spanked for doing this. If Harley pushes too hard, then the price of used 1957 Panhead will go way up.
John Deere got totally roasted and had it handed to them, Harley will be the same way but these companies don't look at examples like that.
Welp don't look now, but a '57 pan already fetches pretty big coin!
Less you by in separately in pieces over time.
I get your point though & it's valid.
Look at the 70's shovels how they went from bargain prices to big coin in recent years! 💰
I love riding and tinkering with my Harley, and I love building and working on my gaming PC. Both industries now appear to be fighting the same fight, as right to repair has been a battle in the PC industry for at least a few years now. Everyone who purchases an item should have the ability to repair or alter it as they see fit . . . and here's the kicker . . . as long as you know what you're doing. If you mess it up, don't expect the warranty to cover it.
Exactly, I remember years ago big name PC manufacturers setup their systems where you couldn't upgrade them year after year. You basically got a few years out of it and had to go buy a new one.
EFI can be a pain too, it’s great while it working properly but like you said any mods above stage one…. Back to the dealer!
Fortunately if you go beyond a stage one and you buy from a company like FuelMoto, they got your back. You get a tuner from them or if you already have a PowerVision, they send you a map to use and you are ready to go.
Same with hammer sent me a tuner pv 3@@GixxerFoo
I put a Thunder Max Tuners on my bike and it works great . I have a 2021 Road Glide Limited and I installed a S&S 475 cam on issues.
2013 FLHX, put a TM on it, set it up for a 6' 4" rider, and been riding and doing all my work. I am still running a stock engine. I need to ride about 8k, then a big bore kit and cam. I will do all the work in-house.
Doing all that yourself will save you thousands in labor costs!
Harley don't want you or workshops working on your bike, but here in Australia, Harley will not look at your bike if it's pre-2000, because they want you to buy a new bike
That's exactly what it is, they want to make them dealer only repairable and after 10 years they want you to have to buy a new one. Metrics have silently had that plan for many many years where discontinue every part slowly leading up to that 10 year mark.
1:45-2:15 sums it up. Man , I’ve come across a few of your videos and I leave crying and fearing the future. 😢 I’ll eventually sale my Harley.
I wouldn't sell your bike, the aftermarket will catch up and no matter what they try to do we will always find a way around it.
I think Harleys are all about making them your own. I know carbs may not perform exactly as well EFI but I had no complaints about a 2002 carbureted Fatboy I owned and made improvements to it from 2007 to 2011. It was a 95" big bore kit with Andrews cams a homemade intake cover with a K&N intake intake filter and a few different used V&H exhausts I bought on ebay over the years...My favorite were the V& H Short Shots...had a V&H 2into1 too but I didn't notice a performance difference and it didn't sounds as knarly so I went back to the short shots. I own a highly upgraded 2015 Roadglide Special now...and I have the orange HD Race Tuner for it...That said , it runs good but I would like harley to offer carbed bikes now too. I realize they probably can't due to emissions regs but it's my pipe-dream. I loved the multi carbed snomobiles I owned. It was fun to tune them.
I'm actually an engineer who has programmed a lot of things in my lifetime. I'd prefer to no program my bike, which is one of my hobbies, I just want to turn bolts related to by bike. Keep It Simple Stupid.
Honestly, if my 2020 Road Glide ends up with computer issues, I’ll end up buying a carburetor kit 😂
Now we're talking!
Harley Davidson - you can shear a sheep many times, but you can only "skin em" once - And Harley-Davidson has been skinning their customers for decades. Yet another reason why it's days are numbered.
They are really screwing us every way they can find.
I've been working on my own Harley since the early 70s. When harley came out with fuel injection, i was curious!! In 2006, i bought a softtail deluxe. Mind you, at the time, I was very familiar with automotive scan tools as well as computers. At that time, i wanted to buy Harleys race tuner. What i was told at a dealer was, i would have to pay for 1/2 a day on their dyno and the software but i was not going to be able to have the software installed in my own laptop. I walked out very irritated. After some digging, i found that aftermarket stuff at that time was very expensive. At that time, i realized what you are saying now was coming true back then !!!!
The price on all that has come down and honestly scan tools really haven't changed dramatically. The fuel injection systems are pretty simple to me, I am gonna have to do some digging on the new systems but it will be awhile before the latest stuff hits the indy shops.
When there is no alternatives, no values are possible.
I think all this about to come to a head, it's unsustainable.
Drag Specialties is going to need an electronics division.
I wouldn't doubt it if they were already working on it!
Yeah, back in the 70's iif you did one little thing different on your bike, your warranty was voided for even altering your paint on the tank. Nothing New 💁♂️
i only work on older bikes seeing the dealers wont work on anything 10 years or older. it's not only harley , had a 85 bmw come in ,dealer wouldn't change the oil. Mechanics should make more money than technicians a mech figures out the problem a tech has the computer do it. motorcycles should be just that not a two wheeled computer.
That's the big difference in a mechanic and parts changer, that's all a lot of dealers do today is swap parts and hope for the best.
Twin cam forever! Never ever would I go to a dealer for maintenance!
These days you would be lucky if a dealer would look at a Twin Cam for an oil change unless it was late model.
I don't think that any manufacturer should be able to force you to come back to them for repairs or parts. I also don't agree with the absolute extreme amount of electronics on the new bikes, cars and other things. It is just another way to enforce their planned obsolescence. Let me repair my own stuff and I shouldn't have to pay the equivalent of a house for the tools and equipment to do that. Parts from an aftermarket supplier, if I choose to use them, should be able to work with factory stuff and having to go to the dealership to get the parts paired with the computer is a bend over with no grease.
Our biggest fight is going to be the right to obtain the software and tools to update and install it ourselves and the same goes for indy shops too. They are trying to make it where you have to visit the dealer for everything they can.
@@GixxerFoo how do we get that done? I suppose that if enough people stop buying them, they will change, but I suspect they will just make it worse if they see a drop in revenue. Getting lawmakers to help us is not going to be easy. Especially when you consider they're usually on the side of the corporation. Or trying to kill it nowadays.
Soon, you won't even be able to 'own' a Harley, you'll just have to sign a lifetime lease.
That is exactly what they are trying to get to, you own nothing. You rent it and you like it.
@@GixxerFoo
I'll stick with my old Shovel and Evo.
All of that modern techno trash just removes riders further and further from the original spirit and intent of riding a motorcycle, and in particular, riding a Harley.
Everything has become just cheap imitations of what used to be.
Rugged machines make rugged individuals.
Great video, as usual.👍
WEF..."You will own nothing and be happy".
@@amanda1500
I've been riding for 51yrs, and it was always my hope that "true bikers" would be our last hope against all of that crap.
I know I plan to be.
Ride safe.👍
@@rarebreed9208 you be safe too
We have to have laptops and manufacturer subscriptions for different automobiles we work on too .
Pain in the ass .
It is a pain in the ass and I know exactly what you mean, I work on cars and trucks myself too.
Harley Davidsons last bike..The Compuglide
That made me think of the old computer company Compaq, the CompuGlide. Lol I love it.
I'm putting down about 60 miles a day on my 103 Fatboy and nobody, but my is touching a single tool to that bike. I installed new exhaust by myself this past Monday. I tuned it on my way to work on Tuesday and replaced the rear tire myself that night. I was eyeballing a new Road King, but I think I'll go Evo for my next bike.
I would stick with the older bikes, those you can work on everything yourself.
@GixxerFoo I think the twin cam might be the sweet spot. It was super convenient to just let my bike tune itself via my powervision. After a few days of autotune, I plugged the tuner into my pc to clean up the tune a little, and she runs like a scalded cat.
I ride a 2002 Ultra Classic, and, Harley locked the ECM and made it very difficult to run a tune. I bought a power vision Tune, and, was forced to find a dyno tech that had a tool that would allow him to go around it.Harley no longer has the software to unlock it.
They were trying to do that back then and now they are trying to do it again in different ways!
50 Years ago if you owned a motorcycle you had to know how to wrench because you were basically wrenching on it every week. 40 years ago it got better with the evo motor. Not so much wrenching but still needing to go over the bike once in a while.
30 years ago hardly any wrenching which brought out people who wanted to own motorcycles and were willing to pay someone to wrench on them.
20 years ago with the early twin cams we started having problems and basically any decent shop could do the repairs.
10 years ago the twin cams were pretty much worry free and needed simple maintenance.
5 years ago with the M8's we got problems again and if it's an electronic issue you were screwed.
Current day you basically need to bring it to the dealer for everything. I see people trailering their bikes to the dealership, the tech comes out with a scanner or laptop, plugs it in and starts the bike and the owner leaves.
I have an 86, a 2012 and a 2016 and I can do the maintenance on them as long as it doesn't involve the cpu.
The 86 FXR I keep just because I can do everything on it without the dealer.
If the HD manufacturers can get away with screwing their buyers out of money, they will so I forsee them making it almost impossible for owners to work on their own bikes. But todays day in age how many people that own bikes work on them anyway?
That's the truth and that's the way the market has gone but we've been conditioned to not work on our own stuff.
I don’t like using dealers. Some of them are very good and some of them are very bad and extended warranties. I have a dealership close to me that just don’t want to do it. They say it’s OK. I bought my bike new. Had a front end wobble From the time I got it for thousand miles I’m replacing the front tire. I’ll take it back three times for them to fix it. They did not. They were waiting for the 25,000 mile rebuild the front on my bike they changed it to 50,000 when they took the grease fitting off the front Triple trees. Anyway, I switched to another dealer and they took it apart and found that my bearings were shot. But I know that other dealer would just charge me the 1700 bucksto do the front end. Some dealers just are out to make money and they will not throw you a bone.
There's for sure good and bad dealers out there and I hear a lot of people that say Harley burned them when in reality they just had an awful dealer experience. My local dealer which was run like an old school shop is unfortunately closing at the end of June.
It's my motorcycle I call this extortion. Another thing if you are buying a new motorcycle or car they can not force you to buy dealer installed after market add on's. That is called tied seliing and is illegal . Bring a copy for the Clayton act from Oct 1914. They have two options take it off or not charge you for it. If they push back just say you will be filing an FTC complaint for tied selling on this dealership and sales person. Then just go find another dealer. people have been fined and gone to jail for FTC violations.
That's how I feel about it! You bought it you own it, you shouldn't have to pay extra to use a feature of the bike which you paid for in the price of the bike.
I work with Electronics every day in heavy industry. I can tell you with absolute certainty that electronics always fails in time. Heat and current flow degrades micro circuitry and manufacturers know this. If you obsolete replacement modules and electronic sensors etc., then voila! You need a new bike and the old one needs a carburetor and points!
That's what concerns me with complete digital dashes in cars and trucks, now on a dang motorcycle.
Speaking of electronic glitches, f’n Bob Ross popped up on the screen with you talking. wtf!?!?!
Paint a little gray area in there to work in is what they do!
This is John Deere all over again. Disgusting.
There's always somebody out there that can bootleg the software programming for about any type of vehicle made. Any independent shop, or individual that has the knowledge to repair bikes, or any other vehicle should have the right and should have the tools and software available to them for a reasonable fee. I'm all for the right to repair.
Exactly, and it's reasonable cause they aren't out to screw you. They just want something for their time it took to do it and their knowledge all at a fair price.
My 2011 twin cam is not in the ten year service that HD will even look at. My 78 Shovel has been in the same boat for decades. I do my own wrenching and it's going to stay that way, as long as am able.
Dealers don't want to do work, they want remove and replace on the M8's. Most dealers don't have anyone in service that ever laid hands on a Twin Cam anymore.
If you want to fix this we have to get rid of the EPA. All of this is being driven by the EPA under the guise of emissions. You void your warranty by using certain tuners because they aren’t epa compliant. Anything that defeats an emissions control device voids a warranty per the EPA. Not the manufacturer. Things like flashes for radios and non motor gadgets get caught up in this because giving you access to the ability to change the software of any aspect of your bike gives you access to change air fuel ratios. Therefore defeating an emissions control device. Gauges contain the odometer…. That info is stored in the ecm as well and if the info doesn’t match the computer thinks someone tampered with the odometer(which is illegal)…. Giving you access to software that corrects this also gives you access to software that enables you to defeat (you guessed it) an emissions control device. This all is being driven by the EPA. The motor company is more than happy to play along because hey “it’s not their fault” and they can make more money. But if the emissions control stuff wasn’t an issue I bet Harley would be more that happy to sell you anything you wanted and they would obviously go with whatever made their customer base happy.
The government and the corporations have plenty of reps in closed door meetings and they point the finger at each other on the public stage. They are all working together behind closed doors no doubt.
That’s why a lot of us won’t be upgrading to the newer bikes, besides the cost factor out the door , plus the labor charges are astronomical, we will keep going with our older bikes and not going into a house mortgage to buy a new bike, and when these new bikes become used bikes eventually harley will obsolete them like they do all the other bikes to force you to get new ones, if they keep going how they are I don’t see them lasting 50 years longer, they forgot that the blue collar worker kept them in business, no they want to be a luxury brand, well how many millionaires are riding Harley’s? Not many, eventually they will Nellie up one day, they forgot what their bread and butter clients are, I will keep buying my older bikes that the after market keeps the parts going to replace or repair our bikes, just my thought, by the way all the millions they spent on the electric Harley! What a waste of money and bad decisions on their part, goes to show you how smart they really are!
Another great reason to stay with my Evos.
Hold onto those Evos and keep the legend alive!
My sister's 2019 Chevy has no key. You push a button to start it. I also do not like the stop and start either. They are putting too much electronics on new vehicles.
Proprietary B.S. If that was the case Harley Davidson would fix all the bikes they ever sold. But they dont want to repair our old bikes, just the computerized ones. John Deere already tried the proprietary way of they only could make repairs. Didn't work out if memory serves right.
No it didn't work at well at all for John Deere lol. You would think these companies would learn lessons from that but they don't.
Wow 😮 What a shit storm for everybody 😒
Things are getting crazy and I'm not one to not call it out about what coming. I hope I am wrong, but these companies follow patterns.
My first thought was I wonder how hard it would be to strip all the crap off these bikes and detech them. Then I thought the price of these tech bikes used is probably going to be low in time. Use the crank position sensor fir a ignition module and a carb
The motor doesn't know where it is. .
That's exactly what is probably going to happen with the cost to repair or replace the electronics on these bikes.
All my bikes are carbureted. I wouldn't touch an EFI bike. I have one EFI car, it's an '06 Ford Crown Vic. I spent 37 years as a government fleet services mechanic, and I know these cars inside and out. I can fix anything that might go wrong with it. It does not use any kind of software, and I already have 2 spare ECMs and several other parts for it, and all the tools I need to work on it. NEVER EVER buy ANY vehicle that is connected by WiFi, satellite connection, cell phone connection, or anything else. It is EXTREMELY important that the manufacturer, or anyone else, NOT have ANY KIND of wireless access to your vehicle. If they do, then it is NOT YOUR vehicle. You DO NOT own it, and you DO NOT control it.
You make a dang good point there and yet so many people blindly buy right into that stuff without thinking of the big picture.
I just finished putting in a new fuel pump in my Vrod. The pump was for an old mustang fox 🦊 body.
It's crazy how much of that stuff crosses for what you can get from Oreilly's for half the cost!
I chose a '99 TC88 with a carb over a new 103. It needs £1k into it with 25k dry miles on but it's worth it for everything that's right.
There's nothing wrong with those 88's, you get that tensioner updated and they are good to go.
Deal with that already with cars and trucks , have a 4000 dollar scan tool just to keep up . These newer bikes with all the technology will need the same type of equipment to help fix them
When it comes to bikes you can double the price for the exact same part that's on a car!
Almost traded my 2023 124 for a 2024
So damn glad I kept that and applied less money to a 2008 FLHRCI with cams and bars .. $6500
Two dope bikes for the price of less than one
I ride in a MC
I live to ride and the odometer on my bike has determined that is not a lie.
Can’t have my only ride in the shop
That's my mentality! I would rather have two bike for less than the price of a new one with no crazy monthly payment!
this is not new. all the automotive companies, and motorcycle dealers have been playing this game since the early / mid 80's.
i'm an old chevy tech, currently working on farm tractors. they too, require a laptop, with different apps.
buy older models, and maintain it yourself.
Farmers have been having this problem with equipment manufacturers for several years now where their dealers were the only ones with the necessary equipment and software to diagnose and fix problems with their equipment. It seems that “FLASHING” has taken on a completely different connotation than it had when I was a kid in the ‘60s and ‘70s! These farmers brought suit a few years ago which it seems to be the ruling that’s brought about the change at Harley. It would be far more frustrating to have a combine worth well over a half million dollars down and not being able to service it while the crop is waiting in the field than having my motorcycle down for repair and not being able to ride. No matter how bad you’ve got it if you look hard enough there’s always someone who has it worse off than you!
Bet HD would love to put aftermarket companies and indie shops out of business.
They are going to do everything they can to get you back in those dealer service departments.