"Did you experience hypoxia?" | ISSUES TO MAINTAIN HEADING & ALTITUDE
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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To everyone writing that it's not hypoxia because he is only at 7,000'.... you can get hypoxia at sea level. It's not a "thin air" condition, it's a "not enough oxygen in the blood" condition. Something as simple as a flu, or not enough red blood cells, or a hyperventilation attack can create hypoxia. More often than not there are several contributing factors of which altitude is just one. In this case, a mild hypoxia would be consistent with the slow reaction and inability to interpret instruments etc. CO poisoning (which also creates hypoxia) would take longer to recover from.
Could be carbon monoxide, assuming he has a current medical cert
Good point. I've had it in Denver, which is only mile high.
It's not hypoxia. He didn't put on any kind of mask. There's no supplemental oxygen in the 172 there'd be no reason for supplemental oxygen at 172. It's not fucking hypoxia. He didn't manage his airplane possibly an instrument failure still didn't learn how to fly the plane partial panel.
Was hypoxia due to carbon monoxide poisoning he would have still been suffering from it and wouldn't have been able to continue the flight in fact he would have fucking died.
Is anyone in this RUclips channel actually fly airplanes?
Also he sounded and responded much better when he got to 6200 ft from 7000!!! I agree with you on this one!
Interesting thanks
“I’m really concerned for you” was probably the best thing the Controller could say. Either the pilot didn’t or couldn’t understand the danger he was in or he was too task saturated to realise. Asking if the pilot needed assistance clearly wasn’t working, stating outright he was worried was the right way to try and focus the pilot again.
There’s a clear tone change from ATC, from mild annoyance to concern and worsening concern. It makes me think of a scene in the Irishman; “Whenever somebody says they’re a ‘little concerned’, they’re very concerned. And when they say they’re more than a little concerned, they’re desperate”.
that compassion should have been shown before annoyance. in fact no annoyance should have been shown at all. idk I’m not impressed by these atc guys.
@@pilotbailey the atc doing the comms seemed professional, the other guy accidentally on air not
@@sluxi either way, his attitude alone could be a factor in an accident. proactive aviation safety systems involve everyone, not to mention, coworkers have a direct impact on those around them. with enough time, and that shitty attitude, someone’s blood will be on their hands.
That was the most uncomfortable non-accident i think i've ever heard on this channel.
It looks like a close call to me.. especially when he looks like he entered a spiral
Definitely scary
atc did a shit job if you ask me
I like this ATC, he's really concerned about the pilot without berating him or yelling at him.
ATC are not allowed to yell
Unlike the guy in the backgroud who says "fly the f-ing plane"
@@henlooo7587 some do sadly, particularly one which an FAA DPE had to tell him to keep his frustrations off the air.
"Tell the pilot to actually fly his f**king airplane!"
Exactly the guy you don't need in such situation.
maybe not in this situation, but in some similar situation only such harsh words can get across the haze of incapacitation setting in
I'm really concerned about the "how about he fly his fu*king airplane" controller in the background. If controllers are flippantly assuming that pilots don't know what they're doing and not be immediately concerned for the pilot, then they're going to get someone killed. The controller on frequency did a great job, their coworker needs to go get an attitude adjustment.
I think he assumed the pilot was trying to fix issues with the autopilot whilst it was still engaged, rather than just immediately disengaging and hand flying the plane.
@@GarethReecewood He shouldnt 'assume' anything. He should find work elsewhere.
😂😂😂
agreed for the most part. the main atc dude talking didn’t try to correct the situation soon enough. he kept trying to correct the pilots course, which i get, but checking in with the pilot should have been done sooner. sometimes pilots get in situations that are worse than they realize.
Yes and with the atc shortages the pilots can land themselves and handle all the airports. Absolute geniuses
People are talking about poor airmanship, but his communication quality keeps dropping. I'm pretty sure this is medical in nature.
This reminded me of my altitude chamber training in the military.
At altitude (i forget which obviously lol) without supplemental oxygen, it seemed like my instructor (on oxygen) was speaking a different language. I thought he was messing with me. So I was just laughing at him. Like, why would you ask me a question in French, in middle of training? lol So I just kept laughing, and had trouble sitting up - I felt like my head weighed a TON. lol I had tasks on paper to complete in front of me. Simple things like 1+1, A, B, C, __, __, etc etc, and I was confused why I couldn't come up with any of the answers.
When we walked into the chamber with the paperwork earlier, I remember thinking, 'why do we have these silly questions?'.
Eventually, I was put back on oxygen, and got to my senses. The craziest thing is, I thought I was fine the ENTIRE time. My instructor was speaking normally to me, but my brain just interpreted it as gibberish in some other language.
Other people in the chamber had crazy symptoms too. One dude, just immediately passed out, another got violent and wanted to fight the person next to him...I was just giddy, and not comprehending anything. I can't imagine trying to control a plane with that level of hypoxia.
This is wild story. Thanks for sharing.
Is this training done to realize this situation in the future? If so, how can one (you) realize it?
Lot of very confident diagnoses going on in these comments. It was a TIA; it was hypoxia; it was hypoglycaemia - along with Internet standard tetchiness with anyone who doesn't take the same line. We don't know what the problem was with this pilot, we probably never will, and we don't need to. The FAA presumably would, but as far as the controller is concerned the only goal is to ensure the safety of this pilot and others in the air around him. Nothing else matters. How the controller handled the situation is the point, and I heard nothing to fault him for. (His colleague, on the other hand, would be getting the bollocking of his life if I were his supervisor.)
"Tell the pilot to actually fly his f--king airplane"?? That other controller wasn't very patient to say the least.
He’s right though
Showed this video to my Uncle, Pilot commercial and private 25 years. He said this pilot was 100% suffering from Hypoxia while trying to manage his cockpit. Think the pilot was looking at something across his panel to the right causing him to drift, tinkering maybe with the fault. My uncle said he kept thinking to himself while watching this "Come on man head up, fly the plane."
As someone who has empierced hypoxia, at sea level no less as I was on a boat and it was CO induced, I can say from my few memories of consciousness, interrupted by seizures, that I still felt I was fine in those moments of consciousness. Prior to my first seizure I was probably already unable to function but didn't realize it as I was just sitting down. Long story short, the Coast Guard showed up 45 minutes later with me being in fresh air at sea level the entire time and my blood was still greater than 45% CO (the highest they can read) and it took several hours on 100% O2 to get me back to a level they would release we from the clinic.
My point is that while alcohol/drugs could have been a factor here, hypoxia is a very real possibility but at a lower level than I experienced on the ocean.
"I still felt I was fine in those moments of consciousness"
If I remember correctly your body's sense of breathlessness isn't governed by the oxygen level of your blood but by the amount of CO2, and other gasses including CO don't trigger it either.
Another thing as well is CO2 forms a weak bond to haemoglobin and is easily pushed off by oxygen, but CO forms a stronger bond and oxygen can't easily displace it - which is why CO poisoning is so deadly.
@@CynicalOldDwarf this was partially my point in that statement. The other was that due to lack of O2, a double bond with hemoglobin vs the triple bond of CO, I was experiencing an altered mental status that I was unaware of at that time. Once I was actually thinking clearly, I was able to realize how I felt that time was not representative of my condition at the time. Basically, in the moment, the pilot may have thought they were fine if it were from CO poisoning.
@@ryanburnham1932 I think this is why some training facilities do make you go through a session of mild hypoxia so that you can recognize the problem earlier. Or have a chance to. Having a key word that you say when you are disorientated is a great way to perk the brain up enough to be aware. Although it is very difficult. There really should be an oxygen and CO sensor in every cockpit with clear availability to oxygen practically doing it for you if something goes awry. Would save lives. Maybe they have that now.
@@Yosetime we now have a handheld CO meter that measures real-time levels (not residual like a home CO meter) in the boat that we turn on whenever you are in the boat. It has an audible alarm, but that is it so I don't know as though it would work great for small aircraft but the technology exists at least.
Did this plane land safely?😬😬😬
Could be having a stroke.. definitely need to find out more here…
As a controller, I don’t understand these guys. Why be a dickhole? Work with him. I’m sure clarksburg has barely any traffic. Figure out the problem. Work with the pilot. I can tell his voice changed from dick to worried but maybe don’t start with attitude. If no conflict avoid confrontation. I’m wondering if the controller is CPC or training. But don’t just hand him off. Talk him down. I’m concerned too.
@@billb7876 Seriously? You are bringing that into this? Get a life.
@@billb7876 Spread your fake misinformation elsewhere. Even alluding to it is stupid.
Well clearly something was wrong. Controller gave him simple instructions. Should of been read back as clear as the diamond that checked in… not rocket science.
Doctor and Pilot here: If any controllers reading this, keep in mind that higher suspicion for pilot incapacitation should be considered at ANY ALTITUDE in the face of slurred speech and inability to control the airplane. Hypoxia is not necessarily the only cause that can do this: a heart attack, a stroke, low blood sugar, carbon monoxide or even alcohol intoxication can do it, to name a few. And these can present at ANY altitude. High suspicion for pitot incapacitation should be in your assessment in the face of combination of abnormalities like this at ANY ALTITUDE. pilots are often well versed especially IFR. Rational complete sentences should always be present even in non-native English speakers. Short, slurred, non-rational speech should be a BIG red flag.
I don't think he could have copied down "that number to call" even if asked by ATC. Should be a report made on this incident & pilot checked medically.
Maybe the ATC controller in the background needs a professionalism reminder. You never know when someone’s mic is hot.
Or take a minute to realize maybe somebody’s in trouble
The caption is "tell the pilot to actually fly his f**king airplane" but what was actually said was "a better pilot would actually fly his f**king airplane""
Which is even worse.
Or find a new job.
I was terrified just listening to it. Thank goodness he perked up again and landed safely. Some kind of short duration stroke maybe? Sounded impaired, but not sure why it would suddenly improve - he only dropped down 1000 ft and then he was fine when he got back to altitude. Strange one. Kudos to the controller who stayed on top of things (not so much to the other guy in the tower swearing about the situation).
Short duration stroke, my ass. Sounds like someone who has English as a second language (and I don't mean that as an insult, but it's not his native tongue) and didn't know how to use his AP or couldn't hand fly the plane while messing with the AP. So he's up there fighting with the plane, getting flustered, and then has the controller asking him questions while he's already task saturated. That's what it sounds like to me. And once he got the AP back to flying the plane the way he wanted it to, you can hear the tension out of his voice as he gets handed off to Pittsburgh Approach. He could have been a lot more upfront with the controller and gotten him to back off enough to be able to think a little straighter - unclear if he'd be able to fly a little straighter.
@@dadever
I could never be a pilot! Too many interruptions!! I can't think straight with all the stress.
Also, is it true a lot of pilots depend too much on the AP to the point they actually can't fly manually very well? I've heard this is true. Scarey thought.
@@RoseSharon7777autopilot is a valuable tool for pilots especially in low visibility conditions which this pilot may have been flying in. There are reports where pilots have been too reliant on the autopilot for more complex tasks, such as changing their landing runway on short notice by ATC, but I have never heard of a pilots skills without the use of autopilot degrading to the point where they cannot maintain straight and level flight. What was more likely is that this pilot was task saturated or had some medical factor which was preventing him from correctly hand flying the airplane.
I am guessing he had the auto pilot get kicked off maybe from turbulence, and then spatial disorientation while hand flying and trying to get the auto pilot back on, and he was talking funny because it was when he was out of control? Once he had it under control and flying straight he could talk better….don’t think my theory is correct if he was VMC tho.
Thought about that - but he didn't sound like someone who was having a stroke though and AFAIK generally the effects of TIAs last longer than just a couple minutes. I've seen them occur in person and they weren't totally back to normal 2 minutes after onset of symptoms. I think he was just in over his head and way over reliant on autopilot to maintain heading and altitude. I'm sure at the end of the video when his heading and altitude are back on track it's the autopilot flying the plane again.
Good job by ATC - patient, thorough, inquiring. (The one in the background is a different person) With all the things seen recently with ATC this controller did great.
For anyone who is wondering what _severe_ sudden onsent hypoxia looks like, check out Smarter Every Day 157: _Why You Should Put YOUR MASK On First (My Brain Without Oxygen)_
Dustin goes into a controlled chamber and with aid and monitoring, had to O2 dropped below sustainable levels. I'm getting chills just thinking about the video, because he goes to the point where the controller is telling him on the intercom _"Destin, you need to put your mask on. put your mask on now or you will *die* " _ His only response is a giggle and "I don't want to die" as he stares dumbly at nothing. they had the assistant put his mask on him at that point. He was fully conscious and talking, being given clear and direct instruction on a task he has rehearsed. Had he had any life critical responsibilities, he would have been dead well before that got put on him.
Now think about a more gradual buildup. if the airplane is not in proper repair, it could be leaking exhaust into the cabin for example. he may have a health condition making him more susceptible to hypoxia weather or not he knows it. the point is, if you are in control of an aircraft, it will kill you. ATC did an amazing job here.
The open mic at the end of the pilots transmission is hair raising. to me that immediately feels like impairment after repeated occurrence. it's a muscle memory thing to key the mic up, almost autonomic. to release it at the end of speaking should be as well, but he's having to think about it. you can almost hear the mental "oh... the mic... right"
I'm going to assume when the Controller mentioned hypoxia, the lizard part of his brain had enough core instinct left, he heard that and opened the window, hopefully venting any fumes out.
SED is legit
Must have been really scary for the controller. Kinda curious if anyone got to talk to the pilot when he landed.
@@skooter2767k care to enlighten us, o' holy one?
@@skooter2767kI'm not gonna ask you to breach confidentiality with your friend. But I would like to request if you could ask him if it's okay to throw some clarification on the internet. As this just looks weird..
@@sigi9669 this is most likely a 9 year old they have no clue who this person is.
You don't know or you would enlighten us. Just guessing based on the rather coherent communication, this guy just wasn't ifr proficient and too reliant on an autopilot that was probably set to the wrong destination. Once he fixed the ap setting, everything worked out... this time.
@@skooter2767kso are you going to tell us what happened
Got to love the other atc controller yelling tell him to fly in fin airplane
that was unhelpful and unprofessional. an atc's job isn't to shit on a pilot, it's to help everyone stay safe.
3:10 - someone is getting reprimanded for that comment for sure! both FAA and FCC will be giving him a earful.
Kudos to the controller. I can’t imagine how stressed he must have been but he still managed to keep calm and give the pilot every opportunity to ask for help if needed.
I’d be interested to know what the real issue was with the pilot.
@thomasfoster2 can you give a time stamp to the part where the controller didn't sound calm? I could sense a tiny bit of frustration but no way would I say he was freaking out over the comes.
*_I think the ATC handled it well. I would have requested to scramble some F-15 to intercept the plane!_* 😅
The only thing I have to ask about the controller is if they're concerned about possible hypoxia, shouldn't they be advising the aircraft to stay as low as safely possible? Granted, maybe 7000 is the minimum safe altitude, but offhand asking a pilot possibly suffering hypoxia as the controller suspects seems wrong.
@@CynicalOldDwarf That’s an interesting 🤔 perception. Maybe put yourself in the controller’s position. What would be your response in such a potentially dangerous situation?
Wouldn’t you want to ascertain as many details as possible?
At no point did I hear condescension from the controller. His questions were necessary and he asked them in a professional and respectful manner considering the apparent cognitive decline of the pilot.
@CynicalOldDwarf Not once did the ATC behave out of line (disregarding the guy in the background). It's his responsibility to make sure planes in his airspace are flying safely, and to ascertain the situation if one isn't. I'm curious why you're so adamant in finding fault with the controller?
Also the relief in the controllers voice when the diamond checked in extremely well and clear 😂
His voice reminds me of a condition called transient ischaemic attack, or a "mini stroke" caused by short term disruption of a blood flow to the brain. Underlying medical issues often cannot be detected earlier. We will probably never know, also hypoxia can be a possible cause. As a climber I have both witnessed and experienced hypoxia, at altitudes of only about 5000m AMSL (about 16500ft), it's a scary thing.
Pretty common jab side effect too.
Given an altitude of 7,000 feet hypoxia should be off the table. Mini stroke or CO2 issues seem more likely.
His voice sounds to me more like a non-native english speaker coupled with task saturation. I mean, at the beginning of the recording he flat out says he's having a problem with the autopilot. He's up there trying to work that out and can't get the plane level either because he can't disconnect it to fly the course he should be or he can't hand fly while he's messing with it. Trying to answer the controller is just beyond his capabilities at that point of multi-tasking. THAT's what it sounds like.
2:46
@@Kaipeternicolas Yeah but you'd know to not take off in that situation.
My first thought was carbon monoxide poisoning
Happens a lot more often than we realize.
Makes sense, especially with the relatively sudden recovery.
A likely scenario given the confusion of the pilot.
Not the case at all, he’s incompetent. No clue how someone like this ever got their IFR type rating.
Sometimes old milk will make you silly.
While this could be the symptoms of other issues, such as a stroke, or some for of intoxication, I have to say that from my limited research over the years, this pilot is exhibiting classics signs of hypoxia.
While the symptoms could point toward several causes, the quick recovery tends to rule out all but hypoxia.
At one point he looked like he had entered the typical disorientation spiral, that must have been a scary situation for ATC... I wonder what really happened..
I'm reminded of that audio clip from a few years ago from the Melbourne area. Pilot passed out at 11K and a medivac aircraft was sent to check on the guy. In that case, ATC did force him to divert
Carbon monoxide? I have one of those $4 carbon monoxide detectors pasted on my panel. Once when my plane was just out of annual inspection I turned on the cabin heat and the dot on the detector turned black. That meant I was in trouble so I opened the windows and turned off the heat. It turns out that the mechanics had worked on the exhaust manifold and it was leaking exhaust into the heater box.
wow, the "tell the pilot to actually fly his _______ airplane" was both constructive and informative
The FAA needs to get in touch with the TRACON controller in the background there. I’m less concerned about the language but more concerned about the incredibly unprofessional attitude toward the pilots and aircraft he’s responsible for controlling. To immediately assume that the pilot is just ignorant and doesn’t know how to fly his plane instead of beginning with concern for aeromedical factors is horrifying coming from one of the guys who is supposed to be “on our side”. The FAA needs to do something about him.
I don’t want to make assumptions, so just a guess based on my own experience. I can’t fly for medical reasons, so no flying experience here. But from how he’s talking and what he was doing, it sounded eerily similar to when I had a minor stroke. A very specific kind for me, so I’m not sure if it was the same, but the disorientation (that’s what it looked like), not being able to concentrate on alt, heading, etc all at once, slurred speech, slow to let go of the mic….. I hope he got checked out after he landed. A car and airplane aren’t remotely similar, but mine happened when I was driving and it was similar. All over the road and didn’t know how fast I was going. Pulled over, called 911 and my sister. Sis got there first and she told me later she thought I was drunk or high as a kite. After pulling over, I don’t remember much until the hospital. This one gave me chills, man.
Yes, absolutely possible. Could also be a sudden drop in blood pressure or a diabetes problem.
@@Fastvoice that too. I’ve never been hypoglycemic or hyperglycemic (I think that’s how you spell it), but my dad has. It could be a number of things. Regardless, the pilot really should get checked out. Or has already, hopefully, cuz there was something going on there.
That's exactly what I think too.
Not a pilot but I've had a neurological event (on a commercial plane which ended up diverting with me as a medical emergency). Also behaved like I was drunk. Thankfully the people around me, and the cabin crew, noticed that something was off. I only remember patches of the flight until I blacked out, and then waking up in a hospital a few weeks later. Then I was grounded for a year until I could travel again.
So many conditions can, initially, look like inebriation.
@@jneill Weeks? Glad youre ok now, that mustve been scary
Definitely a medical issue maybe due to oxygen deprivation as he recovered upon accidental descent to 6200 maybe. That was mental confusion and maybe brief blackout at some point. Good work controller. Lucky pilot recovering.
Hearing "fly the fucking airplane" in the background you can hear the stress in the adjacent controllers voice tone
Cardiac problems, i.e., bradycardia or something will cause hypoxia at any altitude. I would not rule out diabetes and his glucose level is extremely low which is life threatening. Also could be a stroke or even a panic attack. It could be many other problems. I am a retired EMT from the fire service.
Even as impaired as he is, he's still recognizing his call sign on the radio and conversing normally. Really impressive to me how deeply ingrained that ability must be
And it's an absolute nightmare when you rent a new airplane and have a different callsign than usual.
Conversing normally????? Did you hear the other pilots? They were conversing normally.
@@susanshew2373 imagine being drunk off your ass, and then doing it.
that's not even as hard as hypoxia.
Your tail number is right in front of you in every airplane. You could potentially fly a different airplane every day.
I think it is a lot less sinister than hypoxia or medical issues although entirely possible.
To me the simplest explanation is that the pilot is not proficient or current with IFR flying. When he’s in the “soup” and autopilot is not “working” as anticipated, his workload just increased exponentially.
Just because you are IFR rated does not mean you are IFR proficient.
He is very lucky that this did not end poorly for him.
I'm not a pilot, so correct me if I'm wrong, but if your autopilot is acting up, can't he just disable it? He's pretty close to the airport and I can't imagine it's too difficult to fly in a straight line... at least I'd hope that any licensed pilot can easily do that.
@@SVD_NL He should be able to do so. Without any outside references though, you're forced to scan your instruments which is more difficult, and very much so if you're _also_ trying to troubleshoot the AP.
In a hypothetical, there may have been some malfunction/failure in the heading indicator causing both AP & pilot to change course. What's likely is misconfigured or disabled navigation, coupled with out of practice IFR flight.
Like @keven said, if this pilot is not used to or proficient at flying in clouds (“in the soup”) - that is, if he’s been relying way too heavily on autopilot for IFR flying - then it’s very possible he was experiencing spatial disorientation and lost situational awareness of the airplane’s attitude. Accelerations and even turning your head too quickly can cause all kinds of weird and false perceptions up there in the clouds. It requires training and will power to fly only using your gauges and if this pilot didn’t have that proficiency then he might have been dangerously flying by feel. I wouldn’t be surprised if when he leveled out and straightened out it was when he managed to get the AP on again. Very very dangerous to hand fly in the clouds without currency, proficiency and confidence.
@@SVD_NLInstrument flying is a skill that deteriorates over time if it isn't practiced. There are pilots out there who haven't experienced "hard" IMC since they took their IR checkride. And yes, autopilots can malfunction and be disconnected... but a pilot has to understand how the autopilot works, how each mode functions, what its capabilities and limitations are, etc. I've seen too many pilots punch the autopilot off complaining "this thing's all screwed-up," when it was actually doing *exactly* what they'd programmed it to do. Ultimately, pilots are no different from any other technician: just because they've been certified and licensed doesn't mean they're any good.
@@SVD_NLit is actually quite hard for a pilot without recent experience/training to fly in a straight line in clouds. Your brain and sense of balance is a powerful instrument but in the clouds is less than useless and is always trying to kill you. Fighting your instincts and relying on your plane’s instruments is a skill that requires training and constant practice.
Thank you to this controller’s professional approach to his job. Should any other pilot run into some sort of issue, technical or otherwise, in his airspace I truly hope that they have him and not the other unprofessional jerk who thinks impatience and profanities is the way to do the job.
RUclips channel smarter every day has a great video about hypoxia, it seems a lot of people in the comments don't fully understand the effects of it.
Hypoxia effects are different for every person. That's the reason military pilots do the training so they can see/learn in a non-life or death situation exactly Their own reaction.
Frankly the slurring of thIs guy's voice is screaming stroke. He sounds exactly like the Las Vegas ATC controller from a few years back.
@@RowanHawkinsthat was an eerie one to listen too.
Pilot incapacitation. That's what it looks like. Reason for it could be anything, including hypoxia. That it went away as quickly as it appeared in the first place makes me think he had a problem with his O2 system. (And yes, there are people who need supplemental O2 at 7000 feet.)
There is no "O2 system" on a Cessna 172. And if you need supplemental O2 at 7,000', I doubt you can obtain an FAA Medical to be a pilot.
@@jdwky69 Yes there is. It's called a portable bottle. I have two. Though I don't have a 172 to go with them. And as to O2 at 7000 feet, that by itself is no impediment to a FAA medical.
A simple example is if someone loses half of his lungs to some event. They continue to be fully functional in all other respects, but greatly impaired in their breathing.
When flying first time on Vatsim happens in real life
Lmao
This guy sims
My guess would be something other than hypoxia (not high enough). CO poisoning, ischemic attack, stroke, etc. That was terrifying.
or said another way (e.g. to a DPE), likely not hypoxic hypoxia, possibly histoxic, hypemic, or stagnant hypoxia.
Technically possible for hypoxia since theres four types of hypoxia, hypoxic, hypemic, histotoxic, stagnant. Could be a stroke, low red blood cells, carbon monoxide poisoning, drugs.
- "I've got 2 airport for deviation. One at 15 miles, another at 10 miles..."
- "Okay"
Vanilla or chocolate?/interact or credit? ... Okay 😄
The controller was neerly as slow on the uptake as the pilot.
Definitely feels like over reliance on an autopilot that quite working as anticipated. The pilot who may or may not have been instrument rated attempted to resolve the issue but did not want to admit he needed assistance which resulted in multiple deviations. Once he got the autopilot re-engaged, he got headed the right direction.
You have to realize there are folks who will take an airplane beyond its limits or their limits and simply cannot comprehend fail down procedures.
I wonder if he was just struggling to fly in IFR conditions without the autopilot.
Yeah. You dont just get CO poisoning or hypoxia for like 5 minutes and then everything is back to normal. Too reliant on autopilot in IMC is my guess
That is my feeling as well. I am an instrument pilot and it seems he lost control of the airplane without the autopilot. Wonder if he was IMC at the time?
100% poor airmanship
@@griffingartner9380 you can absolutely hold your breath for a few and then be normal shortly thereafter
its trivial, one can nearly pass out just by trying to breathe out through the nose with it clogged.
it is rude for us to assume this is 100% a pilot issue when it could just as easily be a cabin air quality or personal medical problem.
@@warddc I am not instrument but you don't get your instrument rating without flying numerous approaches without autopilot. No? If this guy was instrument rated, he should be able to handle the situation. We need some followup on this one. Hopefully, the controller reported this as a pilot deviation and we can get some feedback as to what happened.
I can just imagine this old fellow doing full on aerobatics up there... "Nope, no problem here... why do you ask?"
Ahh yes, pushing the aerobatic envelope of a 1978 Cessna 172…
ATC can and should have declared the emergency for him😅
I think they already did that.
I think this could be a classic case of Histoxic Hypoxia, where certain medications alter the oxygen carrying capability in the bloodstream, so him being at 7000 while on something like a Benadryl for example (not saying its that, just an example) would certainly cause cognitive issues.
Another possible culprit since he is flying a C172 according to the TRACON info is Hypemic Hypoxia which means there is too much carbon monoxide in the cabin due to an exhaust leak, a Carbon Monoxide detector in the cabin will help indicate this, and some newer ADSB receivers also have Carbon Monoxide alarms built in to them.
My only experience with Hypoxia was due to CO2 from a CO2 tank which had a pinhole leak in the line. I was in an enclosed room spooling fishing line while working for a sporting goods store, my department manager was cutting some crossbow bolts to fit broadheads for a customer in the same room. I was just talking with him and all of the sudden I started noticing my breathing was becoming labored while just standing there talking. So I said to him "why the hell is it getting so hard to breathe in here?" He then remembered that we have a small CO2 leak in the lines (which I did not know about at the time), and he rushes over to the door and yanks it open... the MOMENT that door opened I could feel a rush of cold air and almost immediately I could breathe again. It took a few minutes of me walking around the store getting my body re-saturated with the proper oxygen/nitrogen mixture to get back to "normal".
That was the onset of Hypemic Hypoxia.
The other ATC heard in background on frequency was awful, unhelpful. There was clearly something wrong going on here.
A little harsh a response from the other controller, the pilot was clearly having some issue
My thoughts exactly. Imagine if this turned out differently and those were your last words to the pilot.
Taking up the coms, cursing, adding nothing to the situation that he was not even a part of. That was 100% an ego talking.
that sounds like the supervisor talking in the background? I guess he didn't realise his voice would be captured so clearly into the radio. That said, that's unreasonable harsh thing to say in this situation and didn't help anyone.
@@hkr667t could have been another pilot. There are a lot of assholes that get more assholy when they are anonymous. It could have been anyone with a transmitter on the frequency. The only way to know 100% if it was another controller is for the FAA to pull the tower recorder.
2:57 pretty sure he says "I was experiencing navigational issues with the autopilot, [it was] not typed correct."
3:09 "[a] better pilot would actually fly..."
The subs for 3:09 are definitely correct
@@EmotionalWeather "The autopilot will actually fly the [expletive] airplane". The person saying this in the ATC facility is not helping the situation with this comment, just grumpily judging the pilot assuming it's nothing more than incompetence (which is a possibility, but the controller gave benefit of the doubt and left open the possibility of medical/equipment issues).
On a side note, I notice the subtitles are often a bit off consistently on this channel. I think the creator would do better to use the subtitles feature of RUclips and make corrections after it's uploaded, and use the "force captions on" option.
@@davidyoder562 The subtitles on every one of these ATC videos are wrong. VASAviation has wrong subtitles in basically every video. And doesn‘t give a shit.
@@EmotionalWeatherGo ahead and start your own channel then. Until then buzz off 🤡
@@EmotionalWeatherhe’s not from America and English isn’t his first language… relax and be thankful he puts these videos out
Great job by the controller...keeping calm and focused...never know what the situation was...
I remember a refresher class we had to take in the Army about hypoxia which was mandatory for all flight crews. But they made the mistake of scheduling it for the Friday afternoon before a 4-day holiday weekend. So all the pilots and aircrewmen are sitting in this room wondering how many hours we're going to have to sit here in the class before we get released for the weekend. The Division Flight Surgeon walks in and comes up to the lectern. He then proceeds to say this, and only this:
"Ok gentlemen, listen up. The higher you go, the less oxygen there is. Go too high without breathing supplemental oxygen and eventually you'll pass out. Everyone got that? Good. Now have a good weekend."
Then he walked out of the room.
Needless to say, there was much rejoicing.
There’s multiple types of hypoxia and age and heath affects your risk. Older, maybe a smoker, all of these things pose a higher risk. I also suspect carbon monoxide. Initially I assumed over reliance on automation but the ending made me doubt that
Wonder what happened to him? He seemed to fly straight after this episode.
@00:53, the pilot stated that the “Autopilot was changing”, and it seemed that he had to manually fly the airplane until, seemingly that Autopilot “error” was corrected. While this may as well be hypoxia, the unusual radio communication do indicate a significant workload increase as the pilot is attempting to ascertain what going wrong. We also do not know how well this pilot, knows or has flown this particular aircraft, in these conditions. I would love to see a report, when available, and do hope that the pilot is helped and can return to flying, and soon.
@@D1Trini4u I think that your explanation is very likely to be on target!
Would be really curious to hear a debrief fm the pilot about this flight. Was it mechanical issues, weather, instrumentation failure, hypoxia, pilot proficiency, Mile High Club shenanigans... something else entirely?
He blamed autopilot error. But, I do not believe that at all.
@@DomManInT1 Exactly. Me neither.
A 172? Good luck with mile high work
@@Blargaldalien If you're creative/desperate enough...
Mile high club shenanigans😂
God Bless ATC
Sounds nearly the same as that vegas controller that had the stroke. Scary incident.
She didn’t have a stroke. She was intoxicated.
@@leaontheinternetCite your source. I don’t see anything published regarding cause.
she DID NOT HAVE A STROKE!!!! SHE WAS DRUNK!!!
You DO NOT GET CRIMINALLY TRESPASSED for having a STROKE. Nor do you just up and quit your job because of a stroke.....
JESUS CHRIST people, use some common sense.
@@CapStar362bro. Chill out. I did a cursory search on that incident and I came up with no allegations about her being drunk, let alone a conviction. I’m only seeing speculation and conjecture.
@@cmurphy3748 That's weird, I followed that story too. I don't know how you missed the message boards, but she was well known to the other local controllers and LV-based pilots. Here's a tip: adding the term "forum" to search engine queries can be quite useful.
The controller in the background who made that comment should be fired
What was happening here?
Back in 1985, I was flying in Aztec from Miami to Bogota Columbia. I put my nasal cannulas in, and I climbed to 18K. A Cuban air traffic controller talked me down from hypoxia and I am still alive.
3:25 that is legit the OK meme guy
Thumbs up ATC!
02:56 - geez, that slurred speech is extremely scary. I am glad he recovered with only losing about 800 feet, so it was neither related to CO poisoning nor alcohol, but a medical check is really advisable.
3:10 "tell the pilot to actually fly his f**king airplane 💀. [No sh*t genius¡, magnificent advice!]
Wow! Sounds like Spacial Disorientation while attempting to hand fly the aircraft in IMC conditions. Lucky he was able to get the autopilot back on….Needs more training!
Wow, regardless of a hot mic, that's a bit of an over reaction to the situation. If he was having trouble with autopilot, and he's hand flying in the soup, he may noy be understanding the gravity of the situation.
I'm amazed he didn't die. He's apparently flying in IFR conditions and is making erratic left and right turns after disconnecting the auto-pilot. That pilot got away with one this time, but that was a bad situation.
@sundarpichai940 oh 100%, that's not a good spot to be in!
Non sequitur from the controller: “Are you experienced hypoxia? Maintain your altitude.”
Was it really only at 2:32 that it occurred to ATC this pilot might be in trouble and might require assistance? Talking to him prior to that to assess his reactions was okay, but I'm also not sure the stern tone etc. was appropriate as you don't want to add to a troubled pilot's stress and workload. And what the heck was 3:10? Ironically, ATC was a lot more helpful after that, but I hope he also relayed some information to Pittsburgh so they'll be forewarned and so at the very least the pilot can be urged to get himself checked out medically upon landing. His performance looks and feels like a Transient Ischaemic Attack.
i guarantee you 3:10 in the background is getting a stern talking to from both the FAA and the FCC.
@@CapStar362 I'm less inclined to believe the government will do the right thing.
Yes up until that point ATC was lecturing him on not making drastic turns without approval. To a pilot that was mumbling and sounded way off. No pilot in their right mind would be flying like that without telling. And like if they were avoiding someting they would have told. No one wanta to get possible pilot deviation.
@@bosshog8844air safety and not saying fuck on the radio are two of the few things the government takes very seriously.
ATC in the background...legend. LOL
3:10 "A better pilot would actually fly his ******* airplane"- I pictured that controller standing over the primary with a cup of coffee like on Top Gun.😂 Glad he landed safely.
Be nice to have a follow-up on what the issue was.
Not hypoxia. Non-proficient flying in IMC. Had no idea how to fly manually when the auto pilot decided it didnt want to play along anymore. Poor airmanship.
3:11 he says "A better pilot would actually fly the fking aeroplane"
This reeks of over-reliance on autopilot, like 100% reliance on autopilot.
Which is really a shame because he’s in a training aircraft. Training autopilot dependency in an aircraft that is supposed to teach fundamentals of flight is disappointing.
Wow this is wild, wonder what actually happened here. You can speculate many things here.
Laymen here, sorry for my ignorance - wouldn't this have been an apropriate situation in whch atc declares the emergency instead of the pilot as usual?
Good job on the young controller obvious some sort of incapacitation ,like to see mandatory cockpit flights for all controllers
NO stroke! NO hypoxia!! I fly out of PJC 6 days a week and this guy sounds like this every time he flies. He’s a danger in the traffic pattern and definitely shouldn’t be flying IFR
It sounded like the pilot did need assistance, but either from a medical professional or from a flight instructor. It sounded more like the former, though. I hope the pilot is ok and they figured out whatever was going on.
Feels like the autopilot disconnected (whether it was inadvertent or not) and the pilot was unable to fly the plane manually.
Why would an IFR pilot not be able to fly a plane?
@@testi2025 in IMC conditions? Probably complacency using autopilot
@@testi2025 Because he is not proficient or current and was relying on the auto pilot. This is a C172 so likely had a G1000 with an auto pilot. My guess is he thought something was wrong and disconnected the auto pilot and then tried to hand fliy it and quickly got task saturated. I see this all the time with my instrument students. It's very easy to get off heading and altitude when trouble shooting. He put it in to a right descending turn probably while messing around with the G1000. Trust me, it's very very easy to do.
Shame on the controller in the background. Even in VFR conditions, your autopilot doing something you didn't expect it to do (regardless of whether it was pilot error or not) can be confusing.
First rule of aviation - fly the plane. The pilot failed to do that.
@@simonwiltshire7089 Seems like he flew the plane to me. He landed safely. You have no idea what the issue was but as long as he didn't put in the ground nose first, he flew the plane.
@@drfaustus72 First rule of flying is the ability to communicate in english. So he's already failed that. Second, when the autopilot fails you turn it off and fly the plane IN A STRAIGHT LINE. This guy didn't do that. He was all over the place. If he was having hypoxia issues he should have asked for decent but at 7000ft that shouldn't be an issue. This was bad airmanship all the way around.
I was thinking that was another pilot on frequency.
@@othername1000 Me too.
3:10 lol that hot mic
so much juicy drama in the comment section
Seemed to me he fell into the trap of figuring out what was wrong with the autopilot & forgot to fly the airplane. Once he either fixed the AP issue or abandoned the autopilot troubleshooting & devoted his entire attention to flying, his course straightened out. Frankly, I would have called ahead & arrange a ramp check.
Cancel IFR clearance. Declare an emergency on their behalf. Redirect them to the nearest airport. Have crews waiting on the ground.
AS a very experience first aider/responder I would willing to bet that he has had a minor stroke. Could also be the early stages of a diabetic incident.
I don't know. Fly casual!
Some good information about causes of hypoxia in these comments but the best part, is *everyone* seems invested in the pilot-- want to know he is okay, now. I like that.
Could be a TIA, pilot did seem temporarily impaired, something definitely wasn't right.
Just the next round of Saudi students practicing. Hope someone investigates this.
Holy smokes!! Hard to believe he actually made it down but he did sound better in the last two transmissions.
VERY APPRECIATE to TOWER and RESPONSIBLE ATC ... the PILOT might OLD and temporary incapable
Hypoxia at 6200 feet?? If that was the case all the folks in Denver would be absolutely clueless. Ahhhh.....nevermind.
Makes more sense now doesn't it?
people who live in Denver acclimate to the altitude, this guy could be from a low lying country, theres a reason when you send folks from Nepal or other mountainous countries through a hypobaric chamber they are the ones who last the longest.
@@MarkTurner-vs7uc Yep!! 😂🤣
3:09 didn't have to say it like that geez
It's getting tense. They don't know what's happening. I don't blame him all the way.
They have the impression that he keeps messing with his autopilot instead of flying. So I get it.
It was someone else in the background who said that and they probably hadn’t put the pieces together yet that the pilot probably wasn’t fully alert.
They need to get some professionalism and integrity. It sounded like a medical issue and no need for f this or that.
@@iflyplanes687he absolutely was alert, he said exactly what he was doing. Trying to fix the autopilot and hand flying the plane (poorly).
The background controller LMAO
I was thinking pilot had a stroke......
It's just poor flying skill in IMC without autopilot, a bad way to die and very common for GA pilots.