As a ghost type trainer im glad pursuit is gone why wouldnt i want to switch out my ghost type if i think their is a possibility of it being KOed by a dark type move to easy to predict I was always punished for playing my favorite type
I’m glad hidden power is gone. But God do I miss scald. I wish they would’ve just dropped the burn chance to like 20% instead of taking it away from so many water types
I think another impactful one is the removal of Aromatherapy in generation 9, that combined with the very limited distribution of heal bell and removal of refresh had made status very permanent in the metagame.
I think it was for the best that Hidden Power was removed. I’ve always thought it was kinda janky in every incarnation: a pain in the ass to get the right IVs for the right type, varying power based on IVs as well (leading to some type and base power combos being more or less common than others) until gen 6, being locked to special only in gen 4 with no physical equivalent introduced, and then unable to be Fairy due to programming restrictions. If they were to bring back the concept in the future, the best thing to do would be to just use Tera Types & Tera Blast; rework Tera Blast so that it pulls from the Tera Type without requiring Terastalization. The most tragic lost move though in my opinion would have to be Signal Beam. At 75 power with a chance of confusion, it was extremely unique among Bug type moves. It was one of very few special attacks for the type, at a decent power that made it a good transition point between Struggle Bug & Bug Buzz, the ONLY Bug type move that could cause confusion, and it was a major coverage move for many non-Bug type Pokémon (the first two to come to mind are Jolteon & Nidoking)
Just want to point out that by the end Hidden Power did not have varying power and consistently had base 60 power. Also don’t believe that it had varying power based on type. I think you could get a max power hidden power of every type but don’t know that for sure.
@ I already knew about the power standardization later on, I was just listing the weirdness in chronological order, I admit I should’ve specified. I just checked about the power variation, and you’re right, it’s not connected directly to type, though it is determined by IVs as well, leading to some type & power combinations to being more or less common than others; I suppose that’s where my misconception stemmed from since I’ve heard similar info before. I’ll be sure to adjust the original comment.
The removal of signal beam absolutely baffles me. It wasn’t buggy, wasn’t exploitable, was a genuinely useful move both as a transition to other moves and in its own right, was one of a handful of big type special moves - but nope… like… what??
If Hidden Power were to comeback, it would probably come back to the game as an exclusive move for Unown. Unown did comeback in Legends Arceus, and it did have Hidden Power BUT it was the only mon that could learn it. Hidden Power also worked differently. It went from 60 bp- 50 bp and when used it would ALWAYS be Super effective. If the pokemon has a 4x weakness it would prioritize that type as well. EX: Hidden Power would turn into Ice if used on Garchomp, and Ground if used on Magnezone. How it works in PLA could be a blueprint for how they want the move to work in the main series whenever Unown returns OR it could be just a unique thing to PLA. We'll have to wait and see. There's always a chance for deleted moves to comeback, just look at Tail Glow. It was deleted in Gen 8, when Xurkitree learned it prior, but came back in Gen 9 with Manaphy.
Pursuit was probably removed because it was extremely prone to bugs. IIRC it caused a crash in gen 7 (although that might have been sucker punch), it causes Acid Rain in gen 4, etc. Assist was a move that definitely caused a lot of problems like shown. its also one of those moves where if you accidentally make the wrong move selectable by it, you get stuff like Natdex Revivecats. Hidden Power is definitely a sad one, but it definitely felt bad to just take a bunch of random HP grounds/Ice, although you could scout for it. The fact we never got HP fairy was definitely a "writing on the wall" for the move, although it took a while for it to happen. Overall, i'd rather moves stay but these 3 were definitely prone to abuse more than other moves.
I can imagine how relieved the developers are that they don’t have to bug test every little pursuit and assist interaction now for how many bugs they cause, even if I wish Pursuit was still in the game.
@ bruh if a relatively small development team has to develop their first HD game with a giant open area, a bunch of new designs to come up with, and developing a whole single player RPG and a competitive multiplayer game in less time than almost any AAA game is afforded nowadays, I would also remove a move that would probably cause people to call us more incompetent due to the bugs it would cause.
Movexit always frustrated me more than Dexit. Snatch was a really cool tech move in VGC being able to steal Tailwind if your opponent tried to set it up, Pursuit was an incredible move in Singles as I always liked running something trapping on my teams to open up holes my other attackers can abuse, and an important move not mentioned in the video is the best Normal-Type move Return with its 102 base damage without drawbacks being an important move in basicly any format.
9:25 what I have heard is that the Pursuit mechanic was broken by dynamax. Apparently they couldnt get Pursuit to work properly on a dynamaxed pokemon that was switching out. That's just something i heard on 'the internet' a few years back though so be reasonably sceptical of it.
@@lolAvalanche would be wierd considering animations have nothing to do with the actual mechanics of a battle. Many other moves in SWSH dont have animations against dynamax pokemon
@@asutora.5363 hmm yeah that could be the case! It would be like switching in an identical pokemon just with double hp and different move when you dynamax
One of the saddest forgotten moves is Pycho Shift. It was used maybe once while it was around and then got booted out of the series. It’s not like it isn’t interesting either. Out of all the removed moves I’d really like this one to return not because it would have any real impact but because it’s just a fun and unique option that might catch people of guard once in a while. Let’s not kid ourselves though, it would probably never be used either way.
If we still had Pursuit, I bet Tyranitar would still be in OU. Or at least much better there. It still has to watch out for Zamazenta, Iron Valiant, and Great Tusk. Pursuit could keep stuff like Gholdengo and Dragapult in check and even Pokémon that like to use Tera-Ghost like Garganacl.
It would be nice if most of the removed moves were redesigned instead of removed, the exception being Assist and Sky Drop The reason why I say this is because certain Pokemon are left with fewer options I.E. Bug Buzz on Volcarona is it’s only bug stab option when before it had Silver Wind and Signal Beam as options Also Tera Blast being a Hidden Power replacement post-gen 9 would be cool, using tera shards as the method to change the Tera Blast type
The only move I actually miss is return since it was the move I used the most in every single game (As a normal type fan). It hurts knowing that now most physical Nomal types are unviable :(
@@davidhower7095 no no it would have been TOO strong. It's not like there's already a 100 BP, 100% accuracy no drawback move of one of the best offensive types that's one of the most common offensive moves ever. Absolutely.
I’m kind of glad hidden power was gone as someone who bred in game mons for hidden power types in the past. It was absolutely miserable. Also got worse in gen 7 with bottle caps because now you weren’t even taking a stat hit to get a good typing and power (hidden power is based off of original IVs not artificially maxed ones). Also unfairly buffed basically all special attackers. I would be interested in seeing some variant of the move returning in the future, but in my opinion giving basically universal coverage to every special attackers in the game while physical attackers get nothing is a little silly
@@tylersnow_ yes there is a reason why it can't work and it's really obvious. 99.9% of pokemon should not have access to a move that can be any type unconditionally. And yes hidden powers type change is effectively unconditional in pokemon showdown. One of the most effective ways of "balancing a pokemon" is by limiting the type coverage its move pool proved. Hidden power rendered this null and void and allows every pokemon to have any type coverage they desire. Hence it's removal from the games.
snatch, taunt, pursuit, torment, and focus punch are in the Dopamine genre of Pokémon moves. When you predict correctly, for a brief moment, you feel like God himself. Its sad that Gamefreak stopped making this type of move and straight up removed a lot of them.
@charmandenator5686 they dont hide that they balance the game around doubles. Singles isnt the official format so why would they balance around it potentially compromising VGC
I had this discussion yesterday, I miss flame burst. In the game it was many pokemon’s first good fire type move like Litwick, but now they are stuck with ember. I’d like to think a Chi-Yu in doubles would love this move over heat wave, or with heat wave, to apply more pressure to focus sash pokemon in doubles. Also knowing about gen 4’s acid rain and the many bugs that gen 8 and 9 had, it is no surprise that they would remove certain complex moves to make their coding a little easier.
I’ve always believed most of these moves were removed due to potentially problematic interactions with Dynamax. Hidden Power can be every type, Return Frustration and Magnitude all have varying BP, Snatch could let regular mons use max moves etc
My favourite forgotten move was Iron Mugulis’ signature move, Teabag. This was an OHKO move if the opponent has every played the First Person Shooter, Fortnite. However, it was bad for both VGC and Showdown because it allowed Iron Mugulis to evolve into Iron Smugulis and transition into the real world. It removed the species clause, so every team was just 6 Iron Mugulises. Gamefreak used the move Amnesia to make us forget how to get Iron Mugulis to learn the move, and the remaining Iron Smugulises were killed.
I can think of one other reason they might have removed Hidden Power, and this specifically applies for Gen 8. The Dynamax mechanic. We all know how hilariously busted that was, but could you imagine how absurd it would be if EVERY pokemon could use Max Airstream thanks to Hidden Power changing type all the time? They could have fixed this by locking Hidden Power to being normal type for the purpose of Dynamax true but it's just a thought
This to me is one of the biggest things to point to in order to justify, "The newest games just suck". For years, each generation was at least an experience in seeing new things across the board. Each Generation featured new Pokemon, new moves, new items, new Abilities, new everything! Regardless of what you thought about the individual game rankings, it felt like a huge universe that every few years, you were getting to discover more of. That concept has COMPLETELY gone from the series by this point for me, go to any random move's Bulbapedia page and there's very good odds that you see "This move cannot be selected in Gen 8/9". They have blatantly stopped trying to treat Pokemon as the series that brought it to where it is today; a universe that grows over the years and keeps its fans coming back to see what's next. I just don't care anymore if they're going to start removing more and more elements.
There's certainly some merit to that even if I don't nevessarily agree; I think in some cases it can lead to a more unique meta but purely from a flavor standpoint it really stinks how the cohesion is lost. I've finished the pokedex for both SwSh and SV and through both gens I still am constantly surprised when I learn about mons or moves that no longer exist. It truly is a shame.
The sad truth is every generation had a mechanic not come forward. Gen 1 Special as one stat and the crit by speed, Gen 2 was the only source of the Beserk gene and the pokegear radio, Gen 3 had the unique traits of shadow pokemon, the orginal battle frontier, And the Quirks of Deoxys. Gen 4 had the poktch back button in platnium and the whole grand post game battle zones on top of the frontier, Gen 5 had gems which were not only nerfed but reduced to normal only. Gen 6 had the rollerskates and was the last game with HMs. Gen 7 was the start of dexxit where not every pokemon got a dex entry, and was the only source of Z-moves and a region without gyms. Gen 8 was the tipping point where it wasn’t minor things being left behind anymore tho
I can understand the sentiment but also feel that this style can't work forever. You get to a point where there is so much bloat and it takes too much time/effort to code all the Pokemon+animations+moves+etc. for the game
@@Pokemoki I also agree with that, but I'd say the proper answer at that point is to change the formula itself. Legends: Arceus was the best Pokemon game in a LONG time in my opinion, in large part because of how original it felt.
Pursuit is a problem because sucker punch also exists. Having both on dark makes it extremely effective for neutral hits, and dark is still great on neutral, even more with terra. Also, pursuit deals damage even if you get the read wrong, that's a big advantage from sucker. Even if you removed the double damage component it would still see use.
The saddest move removal for me was Sky Uppercut. A real cool nove for Hitmonchan and Kommo-O. Especially since they are mentioned to specialize in Uppercuts.
Wait they removed that move? It was practically the signature move of Combusken. Saw prominence in the anime on May’s Combusken for half the generation
I think a typeless pursuit would be interesting, like how beat up used to work. Keeping that interactive mechanic without limiting certain groups of pokemon.
battle stadium singles is actually really popular in japan and korea and thats why some singles focused balancing decision gets made like the removal of pursuit.
This is nowhere on the tier of things like Pursuit or Hidden Power but I really miss Signal Beam. It was a decent Bug-Type move and served as decent coverage for many Psychic and Electric Types (which helps since, from what I've seen, Electrics tend to have pretty weak coverage). Of all the removed Attacks Signal Beam just feels like the most needless, like, what was it doing wrong?
hidden power really needed to be removed. the fact that any special attacker could have any attack it wanted completely destroyed what little balance we have. electric types should be countered by ground types, period.
Hidden power was probably removed in Gen 8 so every Pokemon couldn’t use max airstream and sweep. It was also probably just kept out of Gen 9 so Tera blast wasn’t overshadowed. I do hope it comes back in a meta without any huge game altering gimmicks though
I feel like Pursuit should be added back in, but made unable to hit Pokémon super effectively, just so that it doesn’t screw over dark-weak Pokémon so much. I would also apply this same change to Stealth Rock- the current interactions are cool, boots just shouldn’t be basically mandatory on an otherwise random assortment of Pokémon.
That would make for some interesting interactions with pokemon that resist dark. Suddenly they'd get chunked for a lot more damage switching out than they'd be used to.
I actually think the Hidden Power deletion was a balancing thing around DMax. Because moves like Weather Ball, which are normal type Initially, change their type upon DMax (Max Weather Ball in rain becomes Max Geyser instead of Max Strike, etc). So Hidden Power I imagine would have similar properties. Now imagine anything in the game can have whatever coverage they move they want. Imagine how broken so many mons could be if they could just randomly boost their Speed via Max HP Flying, for example
I liked the move "powder", a bug type move that if the opponent used a fire move, it would damage itself. It was fun to use it in doubles, and use scizor or ferrothorn as bait. Since nobody ever used it, most people were confused, and kept spamming fire moves thinking it could only be used once every 2 turns like protect or something. Either that, or people just stopped using fire moves for the rest of the battle, making Scizor have no weaknesses in practice. Im certain that showdown noticed i was the only person who used it, and told gamefreak to remove it just to mess with me
With the combo of the Steel nerf in Gen 6 and the removal of pursuit, ghost types are now op. I really don’t know why game freak felt pursuit needed to be removed.
Aromatherapy was a move that gave a lot of support Pokemon niche usage in lower tiers, like Florges and Lurantis, but since it got removed in gen 9 and Heal Bell lost it's wide distribution, status conditions became a lot harder to manage.
I've been getting into Gen4ou and Gen4 in general as of late and I LOVE hidden power an it's niche coverage option on a bunch of pokemon. It has a LOT of creativity!
Honestly I think removing pursuit was a good move on game freaks part. Pokemon like tyranitar basically shut down any ghost or psychic type Pokemon. If you look at Pokemon now versus when pursuit was around you’ll notice that there were only one or two exceptional ghost or psychic types in OU, and they were on the lower end of usage. Its was made fighting types so much more powerful than they are now. However, there are now numerous more psychic and ghost types in OU.
I think a lot of moves was removed was cause how is affected dynamax in gen 8 I think there was some really glitchy stuff associated with moves like pursuit and game freak decided it’s better to just remove it than to try to fix a lot of random potentially exploitable glitches
That would actually make a ton of sense, as a lot of these moves have weird mechanical properties. I’m not sure how Pursuit would cause issues though (unless they had trouble with maintaining the Dynamax HP stat while switching out?), since it just turns into a different move when used by a Dynamax Pokemon, and should work as normal on a Dynamax Pokemon switching out.
Man, it's refreshing to hear hidden power be talked about as an impactful removal from the game. I usually just hear about pursuit, and don't get me wrong, pursuit does have a big impact, but it always seems to come at the neglect of hidden power in the conversation
Since they removed hidden power from the game, they could replace it with Tera blast by having it always being the user's tera type (and keep its physical and special nature), since i highly doubt that the terastel mechanic will be in future games.
Hidden Power could have been reworked for Gen 9 to be honest. Instead of IVs to determine typing, the Pokemon's Teratype it is. And it either uses your stronger Atk or Sp.Atk. Basically a weaker Terablast, which is always available. And the damage on a pokemon weak to it is basically a 80 power move with stab (120).
Calling Hidden Power and Pursuit forgotten is just a flat out lie I can't get away from people that won't shut up about them, I think Hidden Power in particular shouldn't be coming back, it's a random move that just made checks and counters less reliable because any Pokemon could have any coverage type it wanted Pursuit needed a little toning down, but it's a genuine shame it's gone
Shoutout to gamefreak for giving Dodrio jump kick as a coverage buff in gen 7 and then promptly removing the move entirely in gen 8 for 1 generation we dodrio fans we're eating minimal truly a gamer maneuver gamefreak well done
i do find funny that most removed moves had some weird mechanics that maybe could justify its usage. then there is signal beam that they removed just so that regieleki doesn't have a coverage move or something
Hidden power was a stupid move imo Pursuit was removed because it had zero impact in VGC and more importantly in game playthroughs, so there was no reason to keep it
I think the commonality between most of the removed moves is that they probably do something wierd behind the scenes. Such as statch stealing the opponents move, or pursuit creating a attack window on switchout. Theres likely something technical they didnt want to have edge cases for. Still it feels lazy that they likely got removed for dev convienience.
Even though Assist was removed in Gen 8, new moves introduced since then are marked that they can be called by Assist. This includes Revival Blessing, and was the impetus for the Revivecats strategy in unofficial tier Anything Goes which ultimately killed off that format.
Snatch was a lot of fun in Gen 7 when Z crystals were around. Using Z-Snatch gives you +2 Speed and getting this on a predicted belly drum made me feel so powerful
I think hidden power was unhealthy for the game and in general Pokémon have too wide coverage. I really loved competitive temtem because each temtem has a fairly limited coverage so your team composition is more interesting it's not just spam the Pokémon with broken abilities and stats and GG. It could make Pokémon with weaker abilities or stats shine because they have Access to better moves or more varied moves.
Removing so many moves in Gen 8 was such a confusing move. While you showed examples of Assist-Prankster Liepard being a dangerous strategy, moves like Snatch were much more niche, and countless moves like Captivate, Chip Away, Dragon Rage, Bide, Flame Burst, Return, Magnet Bomb, Ominous Wind, Rock Climb, and so many others were at worst early game scrap moves. It is especially confusing in the case of signature moves like Psycho Boost, Tail Glow, Smelling Salts, Twinneedle, Beak Blast, and others which were clearly only removed because the signature Pokemon was not in the game files, only for them to be re-added with their missing Pokemon down the road. Hidden Power seems obvious in retrospect when Terastalization and Tera Blast are a thing, and I'm glad they were able to rework it to Unown's signature move in PLA and give it a cool effect. However, I can't imagine trying to build a team around getting the perfect IVs for Hidden Power - it's silly enough on Showdown when I need to make the trade-off of high IVs. I would much rather have Hidden Power determined randomly and tweakable like a Tera type if it's original incarnation is ever restored, but if I had to choose between the two I would much rather have Tera Blast - changing your defensive type seems like a much simpler and balanced tradeoff for an 80 BP move that matches your strongest attacking stat, rather than needing to get the perfect IVs for an always-up Special Attack equivalent.
i miss many of the lost moves but hidden power was a godawful mistake, one of gen 2's greatest sins any pokemon can have any coverage move it wants, who thought that was a good idea?
I have a move idea to replace Hidden power (and eventualy Tera blast) that would not just give pokemon free coverage. Enter Gear power - 70 base power special move that can become physical if user attack is higher It's typing is determined by user's hold item because as we know from Cram-o-matic in SwSh hold items have pokemon types. So for exapmle: No item - normal type Choise specs - psychic type Dragon fang - dragon type Expert belt - fighting and so on
I am sad you neglected to mention Signal Beam, Jimothy. But I suppose it was not terribly notable in comparison to the other example. I loved signal beam.
The first three moves were probably removed more-so because of gameplay bugs. As for hidden power, it would allow for dynamax Pokemon to use almost any max move, and with a base power of 110 (excluding poison and fighting.)
Pursuit was 100% removed because some dev thought it was OP and unfair that they can't safely switch their Psychic types. I wholly think that the gen 8 purge was a mistake overall
I think another reason hidden power was removed is because, With hidden power Pokémon could in theory have any max move they wanted in gen 8. Like how weather ball became max flare, max rockfall etc.
My intuition is that snatch and assist were removed because the developers have to update a list of snatchable and assistable moves each generation, or that the way some snatchable/assistable moves are written cause some difficult-to-program scenarios with respect to turn order, condition checking, and the like
Ghost types are so rampant nowadays specifically because Pursuit was removed. They already got stronger from Steel's lost resistance to them and now they're free to wreak havoc. Considering they're already immune to trapping mechanics being weak to Pursuit felt like a fair trade-off, but nope...
Even though people talk about how impactful pursuit was, I don't think I've ever seen someone use it on showdown. Maybe I'm just so bad I've never played against good players that used it strategically. Or maybe because I did a lot of monotype
It was a defining balance tool from gen 3 to 5. You see tyranitar and forretress in gen3? You can bet that ttar has pursuit. Hell, in most generation after that you can reasonably bet ttar carries pursuit
on one hand, i think pursuit made for some great strategic thinking on the other, dark types in gen 9 are already way stronger than they should be, so maybe it's for the best
I do wonder if moves like pursuit were removed due to possible coding issues Having to keep track of the opponent switching out as part of the battle code
I am firmly against removing *anything* from the games, I would much prefer that everything be included in-game, and implement balancing and interest-restriction bans and limitations as a vast menu of options in regular battles, choosing some specific combination for each tournament season on some rotating basis
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It's like 7:39 AM for me rn
As a ghost type trainer im glad pursuit is gone why wouldnt i want to switch out my ghost type if i think their is a possibility of it being KOed by a dark type move to easy to predict
I was always punished for playing my favorite type
Does that mean the storyline will conclude by new years?
The funniest side effect of removing Hidden Power is that Unown can’t be used in battle anymore since they only learn Hidden Power
In games Unown is present in Hidden power is it's signature move so it could be used
I mean all they need to do is add hidden power as an exclusive move for the unknown , like that isn't that difficult
@@mattgibson9337say no more. Delete unown completely from the game and reduce zamazenta’s base stat total by 40. I’ll let the devs know
@@danielsmith5032Heck Zamazenta's catching a stray for 😭
@@danielsmith5032 have them bring back HM's aswell as make cut 200 power 51 accuracy
Pursuit and Hidden power will never be forgoten in the hearts of the old gen gamers
I miss them, bros. Predictions will never be the same…
Return/Frustration too, which was the best physical Normal STAB, period.
@@goGothitaLOLBest widely distributed physical normal stab, anyways
Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Gone, but not forgotten.
I’m glad hidden power is gone. But God do I miss scald. I wish they would’ve just dropped the burn chance to like 20% instead of taking it away from so many water types
Strange I saw box loads of votes for horsea being dumped by Jimothy into the ocean strange
I was uninvolved in Vote collection
@@jimothycoolmiraidon is claiming fraud
@@jimothycool involved in vote disposal
@@cathug566 Miraidon is not a fucking horse and will be deported on day one like all of the horse-pretenders
@@jimothycool video evidence obtained by horse council elder dialga suggests otherwise
I think another impactful one is the removal of Aromatherapy in generation 9, that combined with the very limited distribution of heal bell and removal of refresh had made status very permanent in the metagame.
Most odd one but only when considered that Gamefreak/Nintendo are trying to cut Stall as a strategy
Pursuit was removed because some employee lost their Blacephalon to Tyranitar
I made this up
I still believe it.
Reliable source
Or maybe that employee's kid.
Getting flashbacks to Magic: The Gathering comment sections
Blacephalon falls to it's own pride for not wanting hidden power fighting.
I think it was for the best that Hidden Power was removed. I’ve always thought it was kinda janky in every incarnation: a pain in the ass to get the right IVs for the right type, varying power based on IVs as well (leading to some type and base power combos being more or less common than others) until gen 6, being locked to special only in gen 4 with no physical equivalent introduced, and then unable to be Fairy due to programming restrictions. If they were to bring back the concept in the future, the best thing to do would be to just use Tera Types & Tera Blast; rework Tera Blast so that it pulls from the Tera Type without requiring Terastalization.
The most tragic lost move though in my opinion would have to be Signal Beam. At 75 power with a chance of confusion, it was extremely unique among Bug type moves. It was one of very few special attacks for the type, at a decent power that made it a good transition point between Struggle Bug & Bug Buzz, the ONLY Bug type move that could cause confusion, and it was a major coverage move for many non-Bug type Pokémon (the first two to come to mind are Jolteon & Nidoking)
Just want to point out that by the end Hidden Power did not have varying power and consistently had base 60 power. Also don’t believe that it had varying power based on type. I think you could get a max power hidden power of every type but don’t know that for sure.
@ I already knew about the power standardization later on, I was just listing the weirdness in chronological order, I admit I should’ve specified. I just checked about the power variation, and you’re right, it’s not connected directly to type, though it is determined by IVs as well, leading to some type & power combinations to being more or less common than others; I suppose that’s where my misconception stemmed from since I’ve heard similar info before. I’ll be sure to adjust the original comment.
I didn't even notice that Signal Beam was removed. That sucks, it was definitely my favorite Special Bug Move.
The removal of signal beam absolutely baffles me. It wasn’t buggy, wasn’t exploitable, was a genuinely useful move both as a transition to other moves and in its own right, was one of a handful of big type special moves - but nope… like… what??
I kinda wish Hidden Power made a comeback, with a move similar to Shell Side Arm but with different types.
If Hidden Power were to comeback, it would probably come back to the game as an exclusive move for Unown. Unown did comeback in Legends Arceus, and it did have Hidden Power BUT it was the only mon that could learn it.
Hidden Power also worked differently. It went from 60 bp- 50 bp and when used it would ALWAYS be Super effective. If the pokemon has a 4x weakness it would prioritize that type as well. EX: Hidden Power would turn into Ice if used on Garchomp, and Ground if used on Magnezone.
How it works in PLA could be a blueprint for how they want the move to work in the main series whenever Unown returns OR it could be just a unique thing to PLA. We'll have to wait and see.
There's always a chance for deleted moves to comeback, just look at Tail Glow. It was deleted in Gen 8, when Xurkitree learned it prior, but came back in Gen 9 with Manaphy.
Another example of a move coming back is Ominous Wind, it wasn't in SwSh but it was on PLA.
@MeatOfJustice yeah I'm sure there's more examples. Ik Ice Ball is another PLA move but it's not is Swsh or SV
My pokemon: **is being withdrawn**
Some random tyranitar with pursuit: *Why are running? WHY are you Running!?*
because Pucchi is dark-skinned and tyranitar is DARK-type???? lol dude
Pursuit was probably removed because it was extremely prone to bugs. IIRC it caused a crash in gen 7 (although that might have been sucker punch), it causes Acid Rain in gen 4, etc.
Assist was a move that definitely caused a lot of problems like shown. its also one of those moves where if you accidentally make the wrong move selectable by it, you get stuff like Natdex Revivecats.
Hidden Power is definitely a sad one, but it definitely felt bad to just take a bunch of random HP grounds/Ice, although you could scout for it. The fact we never got HP fairy was definitely a "writing on the wall" for the move, although it took a while for it to happen.
Overall, i'd rather moves stay but these 3 were definitely prone to abuse more than other moves.
I can imagine how relieved the developers are that they don’t have to bug test every little pursuit and assist interaction now for how many bugs they cause, even if I wish Pursuit was still in the game.
bro i loved natdex divecats so much, when pawmot brought it back but even better i thought it was so funny
@@Magic_Ice right, game freak have enough on their plate with being so utterly incompetent.
@ bruh if a relatively small development team has to develop their first HD game with a giant open area, a bunch of new designs to come up with, and developing a whole single player RPG and a competitive multiplayer game in less time than almost any AAA game is afforded nowadays, I would also remove a move that would probably cause people to call us more incompetent due to the bugs it would cause.
@@Magic_Icesmall indie company
Movexit always frustrated me more than Dexit. Snatch was a really cool tech move in VGC being able to steal Tailwind if your opponent tried to set it up, Pursuit was an incredible move in Singles as I always liked running something trapping on my teams to open up holes my other attackers can abuse, and an important move not mentioned in the video is the best Normal-Type move Return with its 102 base damage without drawbacks being an important move in basicly any format.
9:25 what I have heard is that the Pursuit mechanic was broken by dynamax. Apparently they couldnt get Pursuit to work properly on a dynamaxed pokemon that was switching out.
That's just something i heard on 'the internet' a few years back though so be reasonably sceptical of it.
Thats weird considering all dynamax does is:
HP * 2
Change move to max move
@@luukthegamersomething to do with the dynamax end animation when switching out perhaps.
@@luukthegamer maybe dynamax works like switching a pokemon?
@@lolAvalanche would be wierd considering animations have nothing to do with the actual mechanics of a battle. Many other moves in SWSH dont have animations against dynamax pokemon
@@asutora.5363 hmm yeah that could be the case! It would be like switching in an identical pokemon just with double hp and different move when you dynamax
One of the saddest forgotten moves is Pycho Shift. It was used maybe once while it was around and then got booted out of the series. It’s not like it isn’t interesting either. Out of all the removed moves I’d really like this one to return not because it would have any real impact but because it’s just a fun and unique option that might catch people of guard once in a while. Let’s not kid ourselves though, it would probably never be used either way.
It enabled sigilyph to use 100% accurate will o wisp
I used once in a SleepTalk set and sleeping the oponent (not reliable, but gimmicky abd interesting)
I use resttalk psycho shift cress all the time lmao
If we still had Pursuit, I bet Tyranitar would still be in OU. Or at least much better there. It still has to watch out for Zamazenta, Iron Valiant, and Great Tusk. Pursuit could keep stuff like Gholdengo and Dragapult in check and even Pokémon that like to use Tera-Ghost like Garganacl.
can't gholdengo survive it
In the NatDex OU Gen 8 and 9 formats where Pursuit exists, Dragapult and Gholdengo are banned, with Dragapult being banned from both of them.
@ The bulkier ones probably can, but it can at least either hit it with good chip or force them to Terastallize.
It would be nice if most of the removed moves were redesigned instead of removed, the exception being Assist and Sky Drop
The reason why I say this is because certain Pokemon are left with fewer options
I.E. Bug Buzz on Volcarona is it’s only bug stab option when before it had Silver Wind and Signal Beam as options
Also Tera Blast being a Hidden Power replacement post-gen 9 would be cool, using tera shards as the method to change the Tera Blast type
The only move I actually miss is return since it was the move I used the most in every single game (As a normal type fan). It hurts knowing that now most physical Nomal types are unviable :(
Stoutland.... my baby....
Literally all they had to do was make a 100BP Normal type move with no additional effect and everyone would be happy
Hey they even already did it with boomburst why not again
@@davidhower7095 no no it would have been TOO strong. It's not like there's already a 100 BP, 100% accuracy no drawback move of one of the best offensive types that's one of the most common offensive moves ever. Absolutely.
@@alpolacciit has a drawback in doubles which is all gf care about lol
No hidden power ground mentioned...rip yolo skarm
I’m kind of glad hidden power was gone as someone who bred in game mons for hidden power types in the past. It was absolutely miserable. Also got worse in gen 7 with bottle caps because now you weren’t even taking a stat hit to get a good typing and power (hidden power is based off of original IVs not artificially maxed ones). Also unfairly buffed basically all special attackers. I would be interested in seeing some variant of the move returning in the future, but in my opinion giving basically universal coverage to every special attackers in the game while physical attackers get nothing is a little silly
no reason it can't get the same treatment as tera blast and pick the stronger attacking stat after getting a change to how to get the type you want
@tylersnow_ The thing about terastallization is that you can only use it once per battle.
Natural Gift rise up
Gettinh natural coverage is silly for any kind of attacker tbh
@@tylersnow_ yes there is a reason why it can't work and it's really obvious. 99.9% of pokemon should not have access to a move that can be any type unconditionally. And yes hidden powers type change is effectively unconditional in pokemon showdown.
One of the most effective ways of "balancing a pokemon" is by limiting the type coverage its move pool proved. Hidden power rendered this null and void and allows every pokemon to have any type coverage they desire. Hence it's removal from the games.
snatch, taunt, pursuit, torment, and focus punch are in the Dopamine genre of Pokémon moves. When you predict correctly, for a brief moment, you feel like God himself.
Its sad that Gamefreak stopped making this type of move and straight up removed a lot of them.
When a new Pokemon realises it brings along controversy like removing pursuit because it sucked in doubles
It wasn't useful in doubles and even worse in PvE, as the NPC hardly ever switch out. I guess this is why it got axed.
Yeah removing pursuit is proof Game Freak balances around doubles competitive, since it's useless in 2v2 and pve
@charmandenator5686 they dont hide that they balance the game around doubles. Singles isnt the official format so why would they balance around it potentially compromising VGC
I had this discussion yesterday, I miss flame burst. In the game it was many pokemon’s first good fire type move like Litwick, but now they are stuck with ember. I’d like to think a Chi-Yu in doubles would love this move over heat wave, or with heat wave, to apply more pressure to focus sash pokemon in doubles.
Also knowing about gen 4’s acid rain and the many bugs that gen 8 and 9 had, it is no surprise that they would remove certain complex moves to make their coding a little easier.
I’ve always believed most of these moves were removed due to potentially problematic interactions with Dynamax. Hidden Power can be every type, Return Frustration and Magnitude all have varying BP, Snatch could let regular mons use max moves etc
The same thing can apply with z-moves
I have never been as flabbergasted as when a Blissey snatched my Raikou Rest and I lost the game. Didnt even know Snatch existed prior to that.
Snatch was also a move commonly used by the VGC terror Incineroar, where it would steal Tailwinds.
0:24 cut a little bit too deep
My favourite forgotten move was Iron Mugulis’ signature move, Teabag. This was an OHKO move if the opponent has every played the First Person Shooter, Fortnite. However, it was bad for both VGC and Showdown because it allowed Iron Mugulis to evolve into Iron Smugulis and transition into the real world. It removed the species clause, so every team was just 6 Iron Mugulises. Gamefreak used the move Amnesia to make us forget how to get Iron Mugulis to learn the move, and the remaining Iron Smugulises were killed.
Pepperidge farm remembers… that’s why they are in hiding from Nintendo
This hurts to read bc teabagging has been around in fps games waaaay before fortnite
@ unfortunately, I am uneducated. and illliterete
rip pursuit you will be missed
I can think of one other reason they might have removed Hidden Power, and this specifically applies for Gen 8. The Dynamax mechanic.
We all know how hilariously busted that was, but could you imagine how absurd it would be if EVERY pokemon could use Max Airstream thanks to Hidden Power changing type all the time?
They could have fixed this by locking Hidden Power to being normal type for the purpose of Dynamax true but it's just a thought
Hidden power was probably removed because of dynamax. Imagine every pokemon having access to every max move
...
Thats not a case. In gen seven hidden power always became normal type z-move, so with g-max it would simply be the same.
@@Kamil2-y9iDynamax may have worked differently. The ability pixilate doesn’t affect z-moves, but does affect max moves, from dynamax Pokemon.
This to me is one of the biggest things to point to in order to justify, "The newest games just suck". For years, each generation was at least an experience in seeing new things across the board. Each Generation featured new Pokemon, new moves, new items, new Abilities, new everything! Regardless of what you thought about the individual game rankings, it felt like a huge universe that every few years, you were getting to discover more of. That concept has COMPLETELY gone from the series by this point for me, go to any random move's Bulbapedia page and there's very good odds that you see "This move cannot be selected in Gen 8/9". They have blatantly stopped trying to treat Pokemon as the series that brought it to where it is today; a universe that grows over the years and keeps its fans coming back to see what's next. I just don't care anymore if they're going to start removing more and more elements.
There's certainly some merit to that even if I don't nevessarily agree; I think in some cases it can lead to a more unique meta but purely from a flavor standpoint it really stinks how the cohesion is lost. I've finished the pokedex for both SwSh and SV and through both gens I still am constantly surprised when I learn about mons or moves that no longer exist. It truly is a shame.
The sad truth is every generation had a mechanic not come forward. Gen 1 Special as one stat and the crit by speed, Gen 2 was the only source of the Beserk gene and the pokegear radio, Gen 3 had the unique traits of shadow pokemon, the orginal battle frontier, And the Quirks of Deoxys. Gen 4 had the poktch back button in platnium and the whole grand post game battle zones on top of the frontier, Gen 5 had gems which were not only nerfed but reduced to normal only. Gen 6 had the rollerskates and was the last game with HMs. Gen 7 was the start of dexxit where not every pokemon got a dex entry, and was the only source of Z-moves and a region without gyms. Gen 8 was the tipping point where it wasn’t minor things being left behind anymore tho
I can understand the sentiment but also feel that this style can't work forever. You get to a point where there is so much bloat and it takes too much time/effort to code all the Pokemon+animations+moves+etc. for the game
@@Pokemoki I also agree with that, but I'd say the proper answer at that point is to change the formula itself. Legends: Arceus was the best Pokemon game in a LONG time in my opinion, in large part because of how original it felt.
Pursuit is a problem because sucker punch also exists. Having both on dark makes it extremely effective for neutral hits, and dark is still great on neutral, even more with terra.
Also, pursuit deals damage even if you get the read wrong, that's a big advantage from sucker. Even if you removed the double damage component it would still see use.
Removing pursuit made regenerator even more broken, especially these days. Bringing it back in some nerved form would be much better
The saddest move removal for me was Sky Uppercut. A real cool nove for Hitmonchan and Kommo-O. Especially since they are mentioned to specialize in Uppercuts.
Yeah it's wholly stupid. Game Freak are stupid.
Wait they removed that move? It was practically the signature move of Combusken. Saw prominence in the anime on May’s Combusken for half the generation
I think a typeless pursuit would be interesting, like how beat up used to work. Keeping that interactive mechanic without limiting certain groups of pokemon.
Ghost types have been running around to comfortably without pursuit...
Jimothy Cool videos are the highlight of my day
Unown has been unavailable in the last two mainline games because Hidden Power, its only move, was removed.
Unown was in BDSP where it was the only mon that learned hidden power
battle stadium singles is actually really popular in japan and korea and thats why some singles focused balancing decision gets made like the removal of pursuit.
Oh man, I love snatch too. It may indeed be my favorite. I could talk about snatch for hours.
This is nowhere on the tier of things like Pursuit or Hidden Power but I really miss Signal Beam. It was a decent Bug-Type move and served as decent coverage for many Psychic and Electric Types (which helps since, from what I've seen, Electrics tend to have pretty weak coverage). Of all the removed Attacks Signal Beam just feels like the most needless, like, what was it doing wrong?
That actually annoys me the most, lmao
hidden power really needed to be removed. the fact that any special attacker could have any attack it wanted completely destroyed what little balance we have. electric types should be countered by ground types, period.
Hidden power was probably removed in Gen 8 so every Pokemon couldn’t use max airstream and sweep. It was also probably just kept out of Gen 9 so Tera blast wasn’t overshadowed.
I do hope it comes back in a meta without any huge game altering gimmicks though
I haven’t been watching your videos recently, but I was so glad that I watched a few today! I will have to binge the backlog
I feel like Pursuit should be added back in, but made unable to hit Pokémon super effectively, just so that it doesn’t screw over dark-weak Pokémon so much. I would also apply this same change to Stealth Rock- the current interactions are cool, boots just shouldn’t be basically mandatory on an otherwise random assortment of Pokémon.
That would make for some interesting interactions with pokemon that resist dark. Suddenly they'd get chunked for a lot more damage switching out than they'd be used to.
It's Forgotten move Friday folks
I actually think the Hidden Power deletion was a balancing thing around DMax. Because moves like Weather Ball, which are normal type Initially, change their type upon DMax (Max Weather Ball in rain becomes Max Geyser instead of Max Strike, etc). So Hidden Power I imagine would have similar properties. Now imagine anything in the game can have whatever coverage they move they want. Imagine how broken so many mons could be if they could just randomly boost their Speed via Max HP Flying, for example
idk how i found you just now but you might just be my new GOAT of comp. pokemon content
I feel like Assist could easily be fixed to just not call problematic moves like Dive, just as it has for dozens of other moves.
This has in fact been the case since Gen 6; phasing and two-turn moves are no longer assisted.
I liked the move "powder", a bug type move that if the opponent used a fire move, it would damage itself. It was fun to use it in doubles, and use scizor or ferrothorn as bait. Since nobody ever used it, most people were confused, and kept spamming fire moves thinking it could only be used once every 2 turns like protect or something. Either that, or people just stopped using fire moves for the rest of the battle, making Scizor have no weaknesses in practice.
Im certain that showdown noticed i was the only person who used it, and told gamefreak to remove it just to mess with me
With the combo of the Steel nerf in Gen 6 and the removal of pursuit, ghost types are now op. I really don’t know why game freak felt pursuit needed to be removed.
Imagine if Pursuit stayed and we got Pursuit Kingambit (yes the Pawniard line can learn it through breeding)
That was a thing in the National Dex format on Pokemon Showdown. Unsurprisingly enough, Kingambit ended up being banned.
Aromatherapy was a move that gave a lot of support Pokemon niche usage in lower tiers, like Florges and Lurantis, but since it got removed in gen 9 and Heal Bell lost it's wide distribution, status conditions became a lot harder to manage.
I've been getting into Gen4ou and Gen4 in general as of late and I LOVE hidden power an it's niche coverage option on a bunch of pokemon. It has a LOT of creativity!
Removing hidden power was kinda funny considering they eventually put Tera Blast in which is arguably a better hidden power.
Honestly I think removing pursuit was a good move on game freaks part. Pokemon like tyranitar basically shut down any ghost or psychic type Pokemon. If you look at Pokemon now versus when pursuit was around you’ll notice that there were only one or two exceptional ghost or psychic types in OU, and they were on the lower end of usage. Its was made fighting types so much more powerful than they are now. However, there are now numerous more psychic and ghost types in OU.
I think a lot of moves was removed was cause how is affected dynamax in gen 8 I think there was some really glitchy stuff associated with moves like pursuit and game freak decided it’s better to just remove it than to try to fix a lot of random potentially exploitable glitches
That would actually make a ton of sense, as a lot of these moves have weird mechanical properties. I’m not sure how Pursuit would cause issues though (unless they had trouble with maintaining the Dynamax HP stat while switching out?), since it just turns into a different move when used by a Dynamax Pokemon, and should work as normal on a Dynamax Pokemon switching out.
That part about Hidden Power being changed by a specific makes so much sense. I hope they do that if they decided to add back the move in the future
Man, it's refreshing to hear hidden power be talked about as an impactful removal from the game. I usually just hear about pursuit, and don't get me wrong, pursuit does have a big impact, but it always seems to come at the neglect of hidden power in the conversation
Really liking the daily videos Jimothy
Since they removed hidden power from the game, they could replace it with Tera blast by having it always being the user's tera type (and keep its physical and special nature), since i highly doubt that the terastel mechanic will be in future games.
Hidden Power could have been reworked for Gen 9 to be honest.
Instead of IVs to determine typing, the Pokemon's Teratype it is. And it either uses your stronger Atk or Sp.Atk.
Basically a weaker Terablast, which is always available.
And the damage on a pokemon weak to it is basically a 80 power move with stab (120).
they need to add pursuit as the signature move of tiranitar i feel that it deserves it
I am here for the horse council lore.
Calling Hidden Power and Pursuit forgotten is just a flat out lie
I can't get away from people that won't shut up about them, I think Hidden Power in particular shouldn't be coming back, it's a random move that just made checks and counters less reliable because any Pokemon could have any coverage type it wanted
Pursuit needed a little toning down, but it's a genuine shame it's gone
Shoutout to gamefreak for giving Dodrio jump kick as a coverage buff in gen 7 and then promptly removing the move entirely in gen 8 for 1 generation we dodrio fans we're eating minimal truly a gamer maneuver gamefreak well done
i do find funny that most removed moves had some weird mechanics that maybe could justify its usage. then there is signal beam that they removed just so that regieleki doesn't have a coverage move or something
I would like to give an honorable mention to the removable of Bubble. This has truly had a big impact on the meta.
RIP ominous wind, silver wind, signal beam, needle arm. I don’t miss hidden power in the slightest.
Hidden power was a stupid move imo
Pursuit was removed because it had zero impact in VGC and more importantly in game playthroughs, so there was no reason to keep it
Pursuit might be the most painful loss when it comes to Pokemon moves being removed.
What about return?
@DaveSmith-tk2bb return is definitely up there
I think the commonality between most of the removed moves is that they probably do something wierd behind the scenes. Such as statch stealing the opponents move, or pursuit creating a attack window on switchout. Theres likely something technical they didnt want to have edge cases for. Still it feels lazy that they likely got removed for dev convienience.
Even though Assist was removed in Gen 8, new moves introduced since then are marked that they can be called by Assist. This includes Revival Blessing, and was the impetus for the Revivecats strategy in unofficial tier Anything Goes which ultimately killed off that format.
Jimothy is a big fan of snatch. A snatch enjoyer, if you will.
Snatch was a lot of fun in Gen 7 when Z crystals were around. Using Z-Snatch gives you +2 Speed and getting this on a predicted belly drum made me feel so powerful
It's nice to hear some pleasant election news
Shoutout Macargo on passing his Horse Exams
I think hidden power was unhealthy for the game and in general Pokémon have too wide coverage. I really loved competitive temtem because each temtem has a fairly limited coverage so your team composition is more interesting it's not just spam the Pokémon with broken abilities and stats and GG. It could make Pokémon with weaker abilities or stats shine because they have Access to better moves or more varied moves.
Removing so many moves in Gen 8 was such a confusing move. While you showed examples of Assist-Prankster Liepard being a dangerous strategy, moves like Snatch were much more niche, and countless moves like Captivate, Chip Away, Dragon Rage, Bide, Flame Burst, Return, Magnet Bomb, Ominous Wind, Rock Climb, and so many others were at worst early game scrap moves. It is especially confusing in the case of signature moves like Psycho Boost, Tail Glow, Smelling Salts, Twinneedle, Beak Blast, and others which were clearly only removed because the signature Pokemon was not in the game files, only for them to be re-added with their missing Pokemon down the road. Hidden Power seems obvious in retrospect when Terastalization and Tera Blast are a thing, and I'm glad they were able to rework it to Unown's signature move in PLA and give it a cool effect. However, I can't imagine trying to build a team around getting the perfect IVs for Hidden Power - it's silly enough on Showdown when I need to make the trade-off of high IVs. I would much rather have Hidden Power determined randomly and tweakable like a Tera type if it's original incarnation is ever restored, but if I had to choose between the two I would much rather have Tera Blast - changing your defensive type seems like a much simpler and balanced tradeoff for an 80 BP move that matches your strongest attacking stat, rather than needing to get the perfect IVs for an always-up Special Attack equivalent.
i miss many of the lost moves but hidden power was a godawful mistake, one of gen 2's greatest sins
any pokemon can have any coverage move it wants, who thought that was a good idea?
I have a move idea to replace Hidden power (and eventualy Tera blast) that would not just give pokemon free coverage.
Enter Gear power - 70 base power special move that can become physical if user attack is higher
It's typing is determined by user's hold item because as we know from Cram-o-matic in SwSh hold items have pokemon types.
So for exapmle:
No item - normal type
Choise specs - psychic type
Dragon fang - dragon type
Expert belt - fighting and so on
I tried to make Snatch + Baton Pass Umbreon work in Gen 3. Didn't do well, but I was fond of this strange novel idea
I am sad you neglected to mention Signal Beam, Jimothy.
But I suppose it was not terribly notable in comparison to the other example. I loved signal beam.
Sky Uppercut was my favorite fighting-type move as a kid. I miss it to this day.
The first three moves were probably removed more-so because of gameplay bugs. As for hidden power, it would allow for dynamax Pokemon to use almost any max move, and with a base power of 110 (excluding poison and fighting.)
There was a such a fun assist meowstic team I loved using.
Pursuit was 100% removed because some dev thought it was OP and unfair that they can't safely switch their Psychic types. I wholly think that the gen 8 purge was a mistake overall
Honorable mention to Signal Beam. Rest in Peace my goat
I think another reason hidden power was removed is because, With hidden power Pokémon could in theory have any max move they wanted in gen 8. Like how weather ball became max flare, max rockfall etc.
Both are such cool moves I wish stayed in Pokemon. Just remove from tournament play like baton pass. Easy fix.
My intuition is that snatch and assist were removed because the developers have to update a list of snatchable and assistable moves each generation, or that the way some snatchable/assistable moves are written cause some difficult-to-program scenarios with respect to turn order, condition checking, and the like
Ghost types are so rampant nowadays specifically because Pursuit was removed. They already got stronger from Steel's lost resistance to them and now they're free to wreak havoc. Considering they're already immune to trapping mechanics being weak to Pursuit felt like a fair trade-off, but nope...
I liked using Sky Uppercut back in the day and it would hit Fly when Fly was more common
A fearow with pursuit is why I lost my kadabra in my last nuzlock on leaf green 😢
Even though people talk about how impactful pursuit was, I don't think I've ever seen someone use it on showdown. Maybe I'm just so bad I've never played against good players that used it strategically. Or maybe because I did a lot of monotype
It was a defining balance tool from gen 3 to 5. You see tyranitar and forretress in gen3? You can bet that ttar has pursuit. Hell, in most generation after that you can reasonably bet ttar carries pursuit
on one hand, i think pursuit made for some great strategic thinking
on the other, dark types in gen 9 are already way stronger than they should be, so maybe it's for the best
I do wonder if moves like pursuit were removed due to possible coding issues
Having to keep track of the opponent switching out as part of the battle code
I love your thumbnails, silly guys,,,
I am firmly against removing *anything* from the games, I would much prefer that everything be included in-game, and implement balancing and interest-restriction bans and limitations as a vast menu of options in regular battles, choosing some specific combination for each tournament season on some rotating basis
Pokémon are sometimes steel typed. Not many know this.
Wasn’t sure if the channel but I must know more about Magcargo goal so I sub and even like
Return or Frustration were moves sometimes used as 100 base power normal type moves with no drawbacks. Kinda like earthquake 😢