Dear Jimothycool, may you use this set up? Pokemon: Electrode. Moves: Thief Explosion Lightscreen/thunder wave Rain dance Item: none Ability: static Nature: impish/adamant Maxed: Defense and speed Role: Lead Rain dance for cancelling tyranitar's (if lead) sand at the start, giving support boost for water types. Thief is to steal any 'mon's held item such as choice band, leftovers, and certain berries. Thunder wave to slowdown faster pokemon in late, or set up light screen for stall support. If all is going downhill, explosion is the last resort. The damage may not be impressive but the defence being halved is what makes it worth it. Thank you. Edit: static is there to punish direct attackers.
Strength Sap is such a disgustingly strong move that if anything should've been banned, surely it should be THAT and not Liquid Ooze. If a move is so overpowered and centralizing that people are running a potentially useless ability to matchup-fish and beat that specific move, then the problematic, banworthy thing is the move, not the counterplay. It'd be like if water immunity abilities got banned in gen 8 instead of banning Dracovish. It makes absolutely no sense and is just insane.
There's 2 issues w that 1. Strength sap is really important to wall certain Pokemon that otherwise sweep way too well 2. The move has better counterplay in magic bounce, liquid ooze is a worse ability to put on your Pokemon, it's simply more volatile, it's like if there were an item that cut your max hp in half but made you completely immune to landarous specifically, that'd just be an incredibly unfun item, even if it would provide counterplay to an incredibly strong pokemon
@@ANinjaDude-o7v My point is ultimately Risk-Reward. High reward should be met with equal risk. For example all of us HO players have to nerf all of our sweepers to make them Imposter-proof. I use Necrozma Dawn Wings as an Unburden Torch Song Throat Spray sweeper even though it isn't the best choice. Kyogre-P has a higher SpA, Speed and a wayyyy better defensive typing. But I use Necrozma because the Ghost/Psychic typing means I can OHKO an Imposter Chansey even through the eviolite. I'm taking a huge risk tying to set up with that typing when dark and ghost coverage is EVERYWHERE for the reward that I can't be stopped by Imposter. Similarly, yes Recover and Wish don't have the same reward as SS, but they have very little risk. If Liquid Ooze was allowed, it would add great risk to SS to match its incredible reward. All of you stall players have Imposter, scouting your opponents team isn't a ridiculous ask. If I can take the time to scout for dark coverage before I try to sweep with my Necrozma, you can take the time to scout for Ooze. Knowing the tier helps as well, if you see a standard team you should be able to tell what abilities are generally being ran. And if that still is too hard, fine! Use Recover! Less reward sure, but less risk. There is a risk to SS now for sure, but its isn't close to matching the reward. Which can be seen by the prevalence of the move.
Frankly, it just got banned because hackmons players love stall. I've been trying to run hyper-offense on BH for over a year and seeing every tool in my toolkit get banned while imposter Blissey remains at large has been..... Disheartening.
It's for 2 reasons 1. There is still strong counterplay to strength sap im magic bounce 2. Allowing for liquid ooze makes games incredibly volatile, its the same as the non hack-mons ohko clause imo
Seriously, I really don't think Strength Sap needs to be protected from counterplay, someone running Liquid Ooze, quite the opportunity cost in a format where that could be a crazy ability like Good As Gold, to counter an annoying stalling move seems like a good reaction to the metagame. People who don't want the risk can just use another healing move, one that doesn't just move them straight to full hp while also getting to lower enemy attack. It's not as though Recover and its many clones are woefully inadequate
@@milkboy9339 try rain with fishous rend spam. It's a surprisingly effective form of hyper offense. Palkia especially is extremely good because the only real water resist in bh is dragon types and they just get blown up by Palkia.
@@kit0134 I used a Drizzle U-Turn Pex + Water Spout O-Palkia team a while ago, it was fun. I have a core I'm happy with now though. Population Bomb + Poltergeist Victory Dance Arceus paired with Boomburst Dread Plate Judgment H-Zoroark. I used to run No Retreat on that set but they recently banned that too, so now it's running Speed Boost Nasty Plot. It's nice since Normal + Ghost coverage on Arceus hits a lot of mons but can't touch Zoroak, so he's gets free set up against Imposter teams.
Liquid Ooze is 100% valid counterplay to such an overpowered move, honestly not a clue why that is banned. I get your explanation but every counterpoint you gave for it being banned, I completely agreed with, i.e. opportunity cost, specificity etc.
It's matchup fishing at its most extreme example. You click Strength Sap, and your whole mon just dies and you can't do anything about it. If you don't bring Strength Sap or don't use it and the opponent doesn't have Liquid Ooze, you are harming yourself. Also the fact that they can switching their Liquid Ooze mon in to eliminate your mon instantly Also Jim's counterpoint is more reason to ban Liquid Ooze to me. Liquid Ooze is not a good ability to run generally so removing it from play don't really have a big impact. But making the best counterplay to physical attacker a gambling move to click have much more negative consequences.
@@quanghoang6901 By that same logic Magic Bounce is also matchup fishing, as you can just bring it against Status flinging opponents and watch as they screw themselves up. Or like switching to a Ghost type when the opponent is using Explosion to turn a trade into just a net loss for themselves.
@@quanghoang6901I don't think I'd consider it a match-up fish since Strength Sap is so omnipresent. It's like saying running gen 3 Magneton is match-up fishing. I mean, I guess, since it's only job is to kill Skarm, but in gen 3 that a *very important job.* Also it can just be used as a way to protect a physical boosting sweeper. A lot of players answer to something like Victory Dance is just to spam SS since it has equal PP. But if you give it Liquid Ooze now they have to rethink that strategy. Frankly, it just got banned because hackmons players love stall. I've been trying to run hyper-offense on BH for over a year and seeing every tool in my toolkit get banned while imposter Blissey remains at large has been..... Disheartening.
@@M4x_P0w3r No, magic bounce has so much more applications. It is a counterplay to status effect, sure, but it also is a counterplay to many things else like hazard setting for example. It is a very good ability overall, so it's not really match up fishing, or at least, much less extreme than Liquid Ooze being useful for literally only 1 reason Bring in Ghost to immune to Explosion is prediction, not match up fish. You don't bring Ghost just to immune to Explosion and Self Destruct, but to spinblock and many other things
Some of the bans are legit, some are whatever, but the liquid ooze thing is petty This really feels like somebody who likes to run strength sap on the team of ppl who balance this ran into this and got annoyed This is like banning moves which do 4x super effective damage to popular pokemon because they are a "straight counter" to them
The issue is that SSap is kinda one of two good healing moves in the game, and the only good one with 16pp after the recovery nerf(Wish isn't good, it's niche). The 8pp moves are too easily stalled out, so SSap is the only one that's usable a lot over a long game. Because of this, SSap is really used in 9bh, so being able to instantly kill anything using it is kinda broken. Imagine if you instantly died if you clicked Stealth Rocks, or if you clicked Recover, that's basically why SSap got banned.
@ANinjaDude-o7v sounds to me like a reason to ban ssap because its so far above anything else xD Also the given reason for banning liquid ooze was that it was "matchup fishing" which isnt even true if what you are saying is true xD
@@yodxxx1 1) Banning SSap means that defensive teams crumble. It is that necessary for teams because of the 16 pp. 2) You can't just ban a move because "it's a better recovery move," what's next, banning Shore Up because it's better in Sand? Get real. 3) It's still MU fish because some teams don't use SSap, some are mainly reliant on Regen+Shore Up, some are much faster pace, and therefore can afford to not use SSap, some are HO and just don't use SSap in the first place, etc. SSap is far and away an essential piece of the meta because it is just that good to have 16pp, but it is not on literally every team, just most of them, and being able to just say "I'm going to just auto win into these teams and be sub-optimal into other teams, and there's nothing they can do about it" is the definition of MU fish.
The liquid ooze ban sounds like bs. Strength sap is such a strong move, and it's not like there were risky moves in the past, like Explosion also fainted yourself and did nothing to your opponent, if they swapped into the right Pokémon, no?
Frankly, it just got banned because hackmons players love stall. I've been trying to run hyper-offense on BH for over a year and seeing every tool in my toolkit get banned while imposter Blissey remains at large has been..... Disheartening.
It's because of Ooze being essentially MU fish. If the other person isn't using sap, Ooze is about as useful as Ball Fetch. If they did bring sap, you can just kill one of their pokemon for free for no fault of the other person, just because they didnt manage to scout all 6 of your abilities and you got a predict right. Sap's necessary for the format's health, and having an ability that just lets you OHKO anything trying to recover is understandably broken.
@@ANinjaDude-o7v My point is ultimately Risk-Reward. High reward should be met with equal risk. For example all of us HO players have to nerf all of our sweepers to make them Imposter-proof. I use Necrozma Dawn Wings as an Unburden Torch Song Throat Spray sweeper even though it isn't the best choice. Kyogre-P has a higher SpA, Speed and a wayyyy better defensive typing. But I use Necrozma because the Ghost/Psychic typing means I can OHKO an Imposter Chansey even through the eviolite. I'm taking a huge risk tying to set up with that typing when dark and ghost coverage is EVERYWHERE for the reward that I can't be stopped by Imposter. Similarly, yes Recover and Wish don't have the same reward as SS, but they have very little risk. If Liquid Ooze was allowed, it would add great risk to SS to match its incredible reward. All of you stall players have Imposter, scouting your opponents team isn't a ridiculous ask. If I can take the time to scout for dark coverage before I try to sweep with my Necrozma, you can take the time to scout for Ooze. Knowing the tier helps as well, if you see a standard team you should be able to tell what abilities are generally being ran. And if that still is too hard, fine! Use Recover! Less reward sure, but less risk. There is a risk to SS now for sure, but its isn't close to matching the reward. Which can be seen by the prevalence of the move.
@@milkboy9339 imo strength sap still has enough counterplay but imposter in particular slows down the game too much like yea its 'healthy' because it keeps broken sweepers in check but it takes so unbelievably long to play around impostor that most games take like 40+ turns, especially with a lot of counterplay to it now being banned and its not like you cant run unaware, hazards, priority, dazzling, roar, rocky helmet/barbs etc to beat setup sweepers either, impostor feels too suffocating
I remember when playing balanced hackmons i used no guard mega latias with inferno to burn and kill sturdy shedinjas. If they had lum berry it’s ok i also had roar on it.
@MattyMarr ik but it's the fact that healing an absurd amount of HP is ok while dealing that same amount isn't? Magic guard is better all around but it isn't as hard a punish
Strength sap resulting in a liquid ooze ban is still ridiculous. I was a regular hackmons player for the past 3 gens and hardly touch gen 9 BH because of the omnipresence of strength sap. Magic bounce really is not strong counterplay to the move. Everything in the meta loves running strength sap. Magic bounce is just better on defensive mons than it is on offensive mons. When the offensive mon youre trying to stop strength sapping can just muscle through your less-threatening magic bounce mon and then the whole thing falls apart. Liquid ooze ban was one of the worst decisions to ever happen to BH and makes it hopelessly dependent on sap for every mon.
Liquid Ooze should definitely not be banned, Strength Sap already feels like a ROM hack move only held back by its crappy distribution and when you put it on mons like Chansey and it has no counterplay. It's possibly the best defensive move in the game. I guess the argument is that if you're not running a mon with liquid ooze then you have a significantly higher chance to lose to a team with strength sap, but doesn't that sound like strength sap is the bigger issue? If Annihilape returned to OU, people wouldn't be saying to ban H-Zoroark because its the only consistent answer to ape outside of tera shenanigans like Garganacl.
@@mralexnui73 FACTS! I've been playing gen 9 hackmons basically since it came out with a hyper offense playstyle, and seeing them ban everything offensive and leaving stall untouched has been quite the experience. Everytime we find good consistent Imposter counterplay it gets banned.....
Except there is still counterplay in magic bounce, most Pokemon that run strength sap have it as their only healing move, meaning it basically forces a switch because if you keep that Pokemon in it will probably die The issue with liquid ooze isn't its strength, it's worse than magic bounce, the issue is how volatile it is, it's for the same reason as the ohko ban in regular smogon, getting ohko'd by a coinflip sucks
@@Briggetchu25 Yeah, but that's the point. You forfeit the extra utility of Magic Bounce for the guaranteed elimination of the Strength Sapper. And of course there's counterplay. Hackmons is an information game, if you're afraid of a Liquid Oozer maybe don't spam Strength Sap until you have good information on your opponents team?
@@Briggetchu25 Great reward should be met with great risk. I run Population Bomb on one of my mons in hackmons, and I'm always under threat of someone having Rocky Helmet. Does that mean Rocky Helmet should be banned? No! I need to check my opponents item before I recklessly spam my powerful attack. And if they catch me by surprise and switch in a Rocky Helmet mon on my Pop Bomb and I die, good for them! They have the tech to be my strat, and played well to incorporate it. *That kind of good play in battle and in the team builder should be rewarded.*
It's not good because it's March up fishing it's the same argument of baton pass chain teams being banned in most formats. Or a more extreme example being infinite match slowbro. If you don't play around it at any given point you have a chance of just instantly losing. However if you do play around it, it puts you at a terrible disadvantage against everything else. Same reason for Dive cats Smogon has always tried to ban match up fishing
Hello, Jimothy. I just checked my YT wrapped and I was in the 0.5% viewers of your channel. This is all because I must stay informed in the actions taken by the Horse Council and the secret plans Iron Mugulis might have.
Could Cramorant-Gorging actually use any ability it wanted to? I was always under the impression that it had to use its regular ability for the paralysis and forme change to work.
Even if it didn't have the ability, it would still be in the gorging form but never leave it due to not having the ability. Since the only way to confirm this ability is by attacking it, this leaves players afraid to attack it in the first place to risk the -25% HP + Para.
for me gen 7 and 6 balanced hackmons was the best, its what i grew up with. i think theres some ridiculous bans...and the bans are only half the problem, some game mechanics and code were changed so some things arent possible anymore
I think it's really stupid that Strength Sap is being defended over Liquid Ooze. That's a move I despise in normal formats already for basically destroying more limited novelty teams and forcing everyone to play the same boring sweaty tryhard Pokemon even in lower tiers. So I can only imagine how much worse it would be in a hackmon format where everything can get it and I wish that everyone who did run it would be punished accordingly. Does Intimidate no longer work as a way to nerf physical attackers? Strength Sap should absolutely not be necessary and this might be the first time I've ever disagreed with one of Jimothy's takes.
my personal favorite shed set was: endeavor, u-turn, corrosive gas, and taunt. imagine trying to switch around this thing as it just removes helments with gas and it u-turns for free momentum for any breed of ridiculous choiced attacker or set up mon you want.
As someone who use strength sap I can’t complain, but it outclass basically every other healing move and have little counter play, always wished there could be a “heal block ability”
2:30 and this is why you bring a Pokémon with sandstorm/sandstream (I have a dyoxic defence purely to deal with no type wonder guard Pokémon and shedinja sturdy, I play unbalanced)
7:45 - Similar but more usable strat, Gigaton Hammer/Blood Moon on a slow Pokemon with Prankster using Copycat, you land the powerful hit then next turn use priority Copycat to immediately use the powerful move again with no cooldown. Then as an added benefit if the opponent is ko'ed there you can just use the Priority Copycat'd Hammer/Moon again till they are able to get in an attack. You can also of course run Strength Sap for op Priority Healing
My favorite thing before being ban was regenerator Cramorant-Gorging with defensive Nature and Evs. The moves don't even matter as you almost always just switch out right away to heal back up. As long as you don't switch it in to a super effective move you get to do 25% and paralyze while remaining health by switching out before opponent can target it, healing off the chip damage done to it when you switched it in.
One of the better sleep moves with fast no guard pokemon is actually Sing, very few if any players are going to take Soundproof as an ability, and ever since the addition of Safety Goggles that 100% accurate spore is suddenly a detriment, or Prankster Substitute that denies Spore, Hypnosis and Dark Void. Sing bypasses Substitute, and is unable to be made immune to unless ones ability is Insomnia due to Worry Seed play, or Sound Proof
I definitely think giving up your entire ability just counter one move puts you at the disadvantage. I'd see it as a gimmick that gets you a win here and there, but sacrificing a better synergizing ability seems like a net loss.
Liquid ooze ban still to this day sounds like a whiny higher up smoggie raging that he couldn't spam strength sap due to liquid ooze. Literally the one thing it was good for was checking strength sap and to me that looks very suspect
Yeah the ONLY thing it was good for was countering liquid ooze, abilities are the strongest thing in hackmons and using it to counter one move was incredibly uninteresting, it's like if there was an item that cur your hp im half but made you completely immune to landarous, it wouldn't be fun or good, just annoying
I find the Liquid Ooze ban the most interesting of the ones listed. It got banned because it hard counters 1 specific but really good move. My first thought goes to Explosion in gens 1-4. That's a high risk, high reward move. If the opponent has a Ghost type or even just a Rock or Steel type, you could get nothing out of going boom. There are differences, obviously. Explosion can only be used once no matter what so it'll always be high risk. SS can be used several times risk free. Explosion is clicked to try and take something out while SS is used to heal and help against physical attackers. But also, it's easier to scout the counterplay to Explosion. Wait till you see their team for a Ghost, Rock or Steel type, wait till they're gone or you feel safe they won't come out and click it. Meanwhile for SS, given the format, there's no way to tell, even with team preview that there's an SS counter on the opposing team. And Magic Bounce works for the analogy too. Liquid Ooze counters SS harder than Magic Bounce just as Ghosts counter Explosion harder than Rock or Steel types. Not a perfect analogy obviously. People don't run Gengar in gens 1-4 just to counter Explosion, meanwhile Liquid Ooze was only ran to counter SS.
I don't get it. I finally have access to my most broken idea ever, which is an army of speed boost/multiscale geomancy Arceus with my fave move Splash, yet I still can't win. What am I doing wrong?
I think it could be really cool to do a video on gen 9 LC vs gen 1ZU and see which is stronger. I suspect gen 9 LC but then you could find out which generations of LC are closest in power level to gen 1 ZU. Love your videos
I haven't played hackmons since early gen 8, but I do remember getting owned by liquid ooze when my triage buzzswole had what seemed like an easy win, so I imagine it could also serve as counterplay for that?
Innards out reminds me of seeing my friend miss a Hi Jump Kick against Blissey in Gen II and just instantly dying for basically the same reason, except it's only 1/8th of the damage that would have been taken. (It turned into half for a couple gens afterward, before becoming half of your own HP instead. Gen 1 crash damage is always 1 HP, probably because of Gen 1 Magic).
OMG i played so much gen 6 hackmons. i remember running underpowered pokemon sets to catch specific legendaries off guard. my favorite will always be completely vanilla golduck for p-groudon though. shits hilarious.
Wouldn't the Shedinja Endeavor strategy be better off with something like vaccum wave? Yeah i know that it's a physical attacker, but your opponent is on 1 hp. They're basically dead to anything and the move doesn't make contact.
I don't understand how Imposter Chansey hasn't been banned yet. Personally my favourite hackmon is Shuckle with Good as Gold, Cotton Guard, Body Press and Strenght Sap
Wouldn’t Shedinja with Magic Guard and Focus Sash be stronger than one with Sturdy and Heavy Duty Boots? The former could only lose to item removal, whereas the latter still loses to any indirect damage that isn’t hazards? Or does focus sash only proc once/item removal is common enough that it’s a negligible difference? Genuinely curious
Imposter Chansey is really fun because Eviolite and Lucky Punch both work while transformed, and you still benefit from Chansey's massive health. So often times you're either transforming into an enemy sweeper but you always have more health, often have more defense, and just as often have a super high crit rate. In regular Hacked Mons it's normal to run Spooky Plate and Judgement on a ghost type sweeper, just to counter Imposter. Without a Spooky Plate the transformed pokemon will have a Normal type Judgement and thus can't hit ghosts.
The best counterplay was to run sub on your sweeper. Since if you're behind a sub when the chansey switches in Imposter won't activate. But then substitute got banned....
I'm assuming that Pokémon that would naturally have banned abilities-- such as Azumarill and Diggersby with huge power, Komala with Comatose, Thievul and Gumshoos with Stakeout, etc--are also not allowed to run those abilities, even if they're not broken or even good with them. Which sucks if that's the case.
Yeah sorta sucks but 1. Any pokemon with a broken ability usually doesn't see play in hackmons anyway and 2. Most those Pokemon wouldn't even run their abilities if they could
@@Briggetchu25 Yeah, I get the first part. It really isn't an issue of viability, just, well, it feels kinda shitty that lower-tier pokemon who were defined by their ability or only relevant because of it can't use it anymore because a stronger pokemon can abuse it better. Given that most of those busted-ass abilities are given to pokemon who either are good because of those abilities or aren't good even with those abilities it leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth that they cannot even make use of their defining features that are not broken when used by said pokemon. Also I really just wanna see Diggersby with Extreme Speed. A route-one rodent hitting harder with Extreme Speed than E-Killer Arceus amuses me.
Personally shedinja would be even more broken if As One let you give any pokemon two abilities. With both Sturdy and Magicguard I don’t think it’s possible to beat Shedinja.
We have the ubiquitous move that everybody uses because it's so good, but there's only one ability that makes it completely useless. What should be done? Of course, ban the ability that has no reason to be used besides countering the omnipresent move
No point in running mold breaker when you're most likely running sunsteel/moongeist/photon geyser anyway, arena trap is indeed banned, weather can be bypassed with sunny day/rain dance, and toxic can be bypassed with aromatherapy/heal bell/safeguard/etc
All the bans were dealing with a single strategy that would single-handedly deal with most strategies and therefore twist the meta-game into a very filtered selection of strategies. EXCEPT the liquid ooze one, which is the complete opposite case a single strategy to counter a single move that single-handendly invades and twists many strategies. By all arguments Strenght Sab should be banned or just unban Shedninja, if using broken moves that plagues the metagame is part of the fun then why not allows broken mons that does the same?
I guess it was obvious the eternamax etternatus was banned, but why its banned is intresting. Due to have such ridiculously high defensive stats if it has a defense boosting natures and investing 240 ev's your defesive stat rolled over and end up at 0, which cause the damage formula to break and you are effectively immune to that type of damage. It can be seen in freezias video ruclips.net/video/PifV0XOxjxk/видео.html&ab_channel=Freezai
Balanced hackmons was my favourite tier in previous gens but HO isn’t even viable this gen making it pretty boring. In the previous gen balance teams were the strongest but HO was quite viable.
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Dear Jimothycool, may you use this set up?
Pokemon: Electrode.
Moves:
Thief
Explosion
Lightscreen/thunder wave
Rain dance
Item: none
Ability: static
Nature: impish/adamant
Maxed: Defense and speed
Role: Lead
Rain dance for cancelling tyranitar's (if lead) sand at the start, giving support boost for water types. Thief is to steal any 'mon's held item such as choice band, leftovers, and certain berries. Thunder wave to slowdown faster pokemon in late, or set up light screen for stall support. If all is going downhill, explosion is the last resort. The damage may not be impressive but the defence being halved is what makes it worth it.
Thank you.
Edit: static is there to punish direct attackers.
Finally muk can use his real signature move light that burns the sky that gamefreak took from it
More like stench tgat burns the nose😂
finally. Light that burns my eyes
More like The Blight that burns the sky… and nostrils
I love how Shedinja is just doing FEAR in a more advanced manner.
Shedinja, Ken's me your E.A.R.
SESS
Honestly the liquid ooze ban just shows how ridiculous strength sap is.
Honestly I win about 90% of the random battles I get if I get a strength sap mon.Bellosom ,vileplume,and sinistcha are insane in ran bats.
Yeah, I’d imagine strength sap would be more problematic than liquid ooze.
As a compromise, Smogon should make the notorious ability Liquid Ooze legal to use, but only on Muk as he is made of Liquid Ooze.
But he’s a horse?
I'm gonna ooze!
@@tfx9223
Magcargo’s a horse made of magma, Muk’s a horse made of Liquid Ooze, simple as that
I fought some people in the footage on showdown. Have I officially hit the big leagues, folks?
did you fight fake gameplay ?
@josenobi3022 sadly no. I am yet to face this masterful individual
@Reinoiro yeah I think he's so good he got banned from the big leagues
@@josenobi3022 I will just have to train harder to join the bigger leagues then
I had the same reflexion once seing one of BKC's video ahah
Strength Sap is such a disgustingly strong move that if anything should've been banned, surely it should be THAT and not Liquid Ooze. If a move is so overpowered and centralizing that people are running a potentially useless ability to matchup-fish and beat that specific move, then the problematic, banworthy thing is the move, not the counterplay. It'd be like if water immunity abilities got banned in gen 8 instead of banning Dracovish. It makes absolutely no sense and is just insane.
There's 2 issues w that
1. Strength sap is really important to wall certain Pokemon that otherwise sweep way too well
2. The move has better counterplay in magic bounce, liquid ooze is a worse ability to put on your Pokemon, it's simply more volatile, it's like if there were an item that cut your max hp in half but made you completely immune to landarous specifically, that'd just be an incredibly unfun item, even if it would provide counterplay to an incredibly strong pokemon
It'd be more like if there were an item that halved your defense stat but made you immune to Dracovish specifically, to be more accurate.
Tbh I would agree if magic bounce didn't exist that made me ok with the ban
The issue is that SSap is kinda necessary for most defensive pokemon's long-term survivability because of the pp nerf to other defensive moves.
@@ANinjaDude-o7v My point is ultimately Risk-Reward. High reward should be met with equal risk. For example all of us HO players have to nerf all of our sweepers to make them Imposter-proof. I use Necrozma Dawn Wings as an Unburden Torch Song Throat Spray sweeper even though it isn't the best choice. Kyogre-P has a higher SpA, Speed and a wayyyy better defensive typing.
But I use Necrozma because the Ghost/Psychic typing means I can OHKO an Imposter Chansey even through the eviolite. I'm taking a huge risk tying to set up with that typing when dark and ghost coverage is EVERYWHERE for the reward that I can't be stopped by Imposter.
Similarly, yes Recover and Wish don't have the same reward as SS, but they have very little risk. If Liquid Ooze was allowed, it would add great risk to SS to match its incredible reward.
All of you stall players have Imposter, scouting your opponents team isn't a ridiculous ask. If I can take the time to scout for dark coverage before I try to sweep with my Necrozma, you can take the time to scout for Ooze. Knowing the tier helps as well, if you see a standard team you should be able to tell what abilities are generally being ran. And if that still is too hard, fine! Use Recover! Less reward sure, but less risk.
There is a risk to SS now for sure, but its isn't close to matching the reward. Which can be seen by the prevalence of the move.
Something about being the world's fastest coma victim is extremely funny to me
I swear. Everytime time Jimothy says "If you click Strength Sap, you will just perish", I inmediately start weezing hard.
Are you jimothy cool because you're a cool jimothy? Or are you a cool jimothy because you're jimothy cool?
"Throughout vgc and smogon, i alone am the overpowered one" ahh video
@Stop-cooking that "ahh" shit so cringey 😂
@@Jacob42086 erm actually ahh reply
Lobomothy cool??
After 6 generations in competitive singles, the Pokemon Metagross may finally have come up with an answer to that question.
I don’t see the justification for liquid ooze. Spending a whole ability just to counter an OP healing move seems like a healthy form of counter play
Frankly, it just got banned because hackmons players love stall. I've been trying to run hyper-offense on BH for over a year and seeing every tool in my toolkit get banned while imposter Blissey remains at large has been.....
Disheartening.
It's for 2 reasons
1. There is still strong counterplay to strength sap im magic bounce
2. Allowing for liquid ooze makes games incredibly volatile, its the same as the non hack-mons ohko clause imo
Seriously, I really don't think Strength Sap needs to be protected from counterplay, someone running Liquid Ooze, quite the opportunity cost in a format where that could be a crazy ability like Good As Gold, to counter an annoying stalling move seems like a good reaction to the metagame.
People who don't want the risk can just use another healing move, one that doesn't just move them straight to full hp while also getting to lower enemy attack. It's not as though Recover and its many clones are woefully inadequate
@@milkboy9339 try rain with fishous rend spam. It's a surprisingly effective form of hyper offense. Palkia especially is extremely good because the only real water resist in bh is dragon types and they just get blown up by Palkia.
@@kit0134 I used a Drizzle U-Turn Pex + Water Spout O-Palkia team a while ago, it was fun.
I have a core I'm happy with now though. Population Bomb + Poltergeist Victory Dance Arceus paired with Boomburst Dread Plate Judgment H-Zoroark.
I used to run No Retreat on that set but they recently banned that too, so now it's running Speed Boost Nasty Plot.
It's nice since Normal + Ghost coverage on Arceus hits a lot of mons but can't touch Zoroak, so he's gets free set up against Imposter teams.
Liquid Ooze is 100% valid counterplay to such an overpowered move, honestly not a clue why that is banned. I get your explanation but every counterpoint you gave for it being banned, I completely agreed with, i.e. opportunity cost, specificity etc.
It's matchup fishing at its most extreme example. You click Strength Sap, and your whole mon just dies and you can't do anything about it. If you don't bring Strength Sap or don't use it and the opponent doesn't have Liquid Ooze, you are harming yourself. Also the fact that they can switching their Liquid Ooze mon in to eliminate your mon instantly
Also Jim's counterpoint is more reason to ban Liquid Ooze to me. Liquid Ooze is not a good ability to run generally so removing it from play don't really have a big impact. But making the best counterplay to physical attacker a gambling move to click have much more negative consequences.
@@quanghoang6901 By that same logic Magic Bounce is also matchup fishing, as you can just bring it against Status flinging opponents and watch as they screw themselves up. Or like switching to a Ghost type when the opponent is using Explosion to turn a trade into just a net loss for themselves.
@@quanghoang6901I don't think I'd consider it a match-up fish since Strength Sap is so omnipresent.
It's like saying running gen 3 Magneton is match-up fishing. I mean, I guess, since it's only job is to kill Skarm, but in gen 3 that a *very important job.*
Also it can just be used as a way to protect a physical boosting sweeper. A lot of players answer to something like Victory Dance is just to spam SS since it has equal PP. But if you give it Liquid Ooze now they have to rethink that strategy.
Frankly, it just got banned because hackmons players love stall. I've been trying to run hyper-offense on BH for over a year and seeing every tool in my toolkit get banned while imposter Blissey remains at large has been.....
Disheartening.
@@M4x_P0w3r No, magic bounce has so much more applications. It is a counterplay to status effect, sure, but it also is a counterplay to many things else like hazard setting for example. It is a very good ability overall, so it's not really match up fishing, or at least, much less extreme than Liquid Ooze being useful for literally only 1 reason
Bring in Ghost to immune to Explosion is prediction, not match up fish. You don't bring Ghost just to immune to Explosion and Self Destruct, but to spinblock and many other things
@@milkboy9339 I was under the impression imposter was banned in balanced hackmons? Specically due to the blissey scenario.
They say Yamper is the most powerful hacked pokemon of all, as his powerful Corgi legs are capable of reaching their true potential.
0:21 no one talking about this FREAKY z-move animation 😭
This eternal struggle between Fake Gameplay and Walton Simons... when will we ever see an end to this feud? Why must they fight?
Liquid Ooze counterplay against Strength Sap may be broken, but it cannot be denied that it's funny.
Some of the bans are legit, some are whatever, but the liquid ooze thing is petty
This really feels like somebody who likes to run strength sap on the team of ppl who balance this ran into this and got annoyed
This is like banning moves which do 4x super effective damage to popular pokemon because they are a "straight counter" to them
The issue is that SSap is kinda one of two good healing moves in the game, and the only good one with 16pp after the recovery nerf(Wish isn't good, it's niche). The 8pp moves are too easily stalled out, so SSap is the only one that's usable a lot over a long game. Because of this, SSap is really used in 9bh, so being able to instantly kill anything using it is kinda broken. Imagine if you instantly died if you clicked Stealth Rocks, or if you clicked Recover, that's basically why SSap got banned.
@ANinjaDude-o7v sounds to me like a reason to ban ssap because its so far above anything else xD
Also the given reason for banning liquid ooze was that it was "matchup fishing" which isnt even true if what you are saying is true xD
@@yodxxx1
1) Banning SSap means that defensive teams crumble. It is that necessary for teams because of the 16 pp.
2) You can't just ban a move because "it's a better recovery move," what's next, banning Shore Up because it's better in Sand? Get real.
3) It's still MU fish because some teams don't use SSap, some are mainly reliant on Regen+Shore Up, some are much faster pace, and therefore can afford to not use SSap, some are HO and just don't use SSap in the first place, etc. SSap is far and away an essential piece of the meta because it is just that good to have 16pp, but it is not on literally every team, just most of them, and being able to just say "I'm going to just auto win into these teams and be sub-optimal into other teams, and there's nothing they can do about it" is the definition of MU fish.
The liquid ooze ban sounds like bs. Strength sap is such a strong move, and it's not like there were risky moves in the past, like Explosion also fainted yourself and did nothing to your opponent, if they swapped into the right Pokémon, no?
Frankly, it just got banned because hackmons players love stall. I've been trying to run hyper-offense on BH for over a year and seeing every tool in my toolkit get banned while imposter Blissey remains at large has been.....
Disheartening.
@@milkboy9339thats so lame of them
It's because of Ooze being essentially MU fish. If the other person isn't using sap, Ooze is about as useful as Ball Fetch. If they did bring sap, you can just kill one of their pokemon for free for no fault of the other person, just because they didnt manage to scout all 6 of your abilities and you got a predict right. Sap's necessary for the format's health, and having an ability that just lets you OHKO anything trying to recover is understandably broken.
@@ANinjaDude-o7v My point is ultimately Risk-Reward. High reward should be met with equal risk. For example all of us HO players have to nerf all of our sweepers to make them Imposter-proof. I use Necrozma Dawn Wings as an Unburden Torch Song Throat Spray sweeper even though it isn't the best choice. Kyogre-P has a higher SpA, Speed and a wayyyy better defensive typing.
But I use Necrozma because the Ghost/Psychic typing means I can OHKO an Imposter Chansey even through the eviolite. I'm taking a huge risk tying to set up with that typing when dark and ghost coverage is EVERYWHERE for the reward that I can't be stopped by Imposter.
Similarly, yes Recover and Wish don't have the same reward as SS, but they have very little risk. If Liquid Ooze was allowed, it would add great risk to SS to match its incredible reward.
All of you stall players have Imposter, scouting your opponents team isn't a ridiculous ask. If I can take the time to scout for dark coverage before I try to sweep with my Necrozma, you can take the time to scout for Ooze. Knowing the tier helps as well, if you see a standard team you should be able to tell what abilities are generally being ran. And if that still is too hard, fine! Use Recover! Less reward sure, but less risk.
There is a risk to SS now for sure, but its isn't close to matching the reward. Which can be seen by the prevalence of the move.
@@milkboy9339 imo strength sap still has enough counterplay but imposter in particular slows down the game too much
like yea its 'healthy' because it keeps broken sweepers in check but it takes so unbelievably long to play around impostor that most games take like 40+ turns, especially with a lot of counterplay to it now being banned
and its not like you cant run unaware, hazards, priority, dazzling, roar, rocky helmet/barbs etc to beat setup sweepers either, impostor feels too suffocating
I remember when playing balanced hackmons i used no guard mega latias with inferno to burn and kill sturdy shedinjas. If they had lum berry it’s ok i also had roar on it.
Strength sap is such a cheap ass move, I think they really fumbled by banning liquid ooze
You could just use magic bounce and recover from their strength sap.
@MattyMarr ik but it's the fact that healing an absurd amount of HP is ok while dealing that same amount isn't? Magic guard is better all around but it isn't as hard a punish
TL;DR the BH people love stall
Strength sap resulting in a liquid ooze ban is still ridiculous. I was a regular hackmons player for the past 3 gens and hardly touch gen 9 BH because of the omnipresence of strength sap. Magic bounce really is not strong counterplay to the move. Everything in the meta loves running strength sap. Magic bounce is just better on defensive mons than it is on offensive mons. When the offensive mon youre trying to stop strength sapping can just muscle through your less-threatening magic bounce mon and then the whole thing falls apart. Liquid ooze ban was one of the worst decisions to ever happen to BH and makes it hopelessly dependent on sap for every mon.
Liquid Ooze should definitely not be banned, Strength Sap already feels like a ROM hack move only held back by its crappy distribution and when you put it on mons like Chansey and it has no counterplay. It's possibly the best defensive move in the game. I guess the argument is that if you're not running a mon with liquid ooze then you have a significantly higher chance to lose to a team with strength sap, but doesn't that sound like strength sap is the bigger issue? If Annihilape returned to OU, people wouldn't be saying to ban H-Zoroark because its the only consistent answer to ape outside of tera shenanigans like Garganacl.
@@mralexnui73 FACTS! I've been playing gen 9 hackmons basically since it came out with a hyper offense playstyle, and seeing them ban everything offensive and leaving stall untouched has been quite the experience.
Everytime we find good consistent Imposter counterplay it gets banned.....
Except there is still counterplay in magic bounce, most Pokemon that run strength sap have it as their only healing move, meaning it basically forces a switch because if you keep that Pokemon in it will probably die
The issue with liquid ooze isn't its strength, it's worse than magic bounce, the issue is how volatile it is, it's for the same reason as the ohko ban in regular smogon, getting ohko'd by a coinflip sucks
@@Briggetchu25 Yeah, but that's the point. You forfeit the extra utility of Magic Bounce for the guaranteed elimination of the Strength Sapper.
And of course there's counterplay. Hackmons is an information game, if you're afraid of a Liquid Oozer maybe don't spam Strength Sap until you have good information on your opponents team?
@@Briggetchu25 Great reward should be met with great risk.
I run Population Bomb on one of my mons in hackmons, and I'm always under threat of someone having Rocky Helmet. Does that mean Rocky Helmet should be banned? No! I need to check my opponents item before I recklessly spam my powerful attack.
And if they catch me by surprise and switch in a Rocky Helmet mon on my Pop Bomb and I die, good for them! They have the tech to be my strat, and played well to incorporate it. *That kind of good play in battle and in the team builder should be rewarded.*
It's not good because it's March up fishing it's the same argument of baton pass chain teams being banned in most formats. Or a more extreme example being infinite match slowbro. If you don't play around it at any given point you have a chance of just instantly losing. However if you do play around it, it puts you at a terrible disadvantage against everything else. Same reason for Dive cats Smogon has always tried to ban match up fishing
Hello, Jimothy. I just checked my YT wrapped and I was in the 0.5% viewers of your channel.
This is all because I must stay informed in the actions taken by the Horse Council and the secret plans Iron Mugulis might have.
Liquid ooze should be unbanned. Strength sap is so powerful in that meta and it makes Strength sap not such a free move.
I mean strength sap isn't free, it loses hard to magic bounce
Could Cramorant-Gorging actually use any ability it wanted to? I was always under the impression that it had to use its regular ability for the paralysis and forme change to work.
Even if it didn't have the ability, it would still be in the gorging form but never leave it due to not having the ability. Since the only way to confirm this ability is by attacking it, this leaves players afraid to attack it in the first place to risk the -25% HP + Para.
jimothy is mistaken, cramorant does infact have to use gulp missile
"Don't tell smogon that i hacked my pokemon" -jim
The gen 7 Pure Hackmons lives were some of your best, hope the format returns some day
for me gen 7 and 6 balanced hackmons was the best, its what i grew up with. i think theres some ridiculous bans...and the bans are only half the problem, some game mechanics and code were changed so some things arent possible anymore
I think it's really stupid that Strength Sap is being defended over Liquid Ooze. That's a move I despise in normal formats already for basically destroying more limited novelty teams and forcing everyone to play the same boring sweaty tryhard Pokemon even in lower tiers. So I can only imagine how much worse it would be in a hackmon format where everything can get it and I wish that everyone who did run it would be punished accordingly. Does Intimidate no longer work as a way to nerf physical attackers? Strength Sap should absolutely not be necessary and this might be the first time I've ever disagreed with one of Jimothy's takes.
my personal favorite shed set was: endeavor, u-turn, corrosive gas, and taunt. imagine trying to switch around this thing as it just removes helments with gas and it u-turns for free momentum for any breed of ridiculous choiced attacker or set up mon you want.
Hack mons is a competitive Pokémon format where the game is pushed to its absolute limits…
And you can pull off some serious nonsense.
But what is hackmons?
@@mralexnui73basically regular game but way more customizable
As someone who use strength sap I can’t complain, but it outclass basically every other healing move and have little counter play, always wished there could be a “heal block ability”
2:30 and this is why you bring a Pokémon with sandstorm/sandstream (I have a dyoxic defence purely to deal with no type wonder guard Pokémon and shedinja sturdy, I play unbalanced)
I can't believe Jimothy refuses to acknowledge the existence of his evil twin, Timothy Lame
7:45 - Similar but more usable strat, Gigaton Hammer/Blood Moon on a slow Pokemon with Prankster using Copycat, you land the powerful hit then next turn use priority Copycat to immediately use the powerful move again with no cooldown. Then as an added benefit if the opponent is ko'ed there you can just use the Priority Copycat'd Hammer/Moon again till they are able to get in an attack.
You can also of course run Strength Sap for op Priority Healing
The Liquid Ooze ban is completely undeserved wtf. Hard to come up with a justification that isn't just "smogon likes stall"
watching pikachu squirm in the gorging form is disgusting. Thank the horse council for getting this treason banned
I just took the hardest differential equation exam …. I needed this video today
"Putting my pokemon in a coma and I WON THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP?" would be an alternative world youtube clickbait.
My favorite thing before being ban was regenerator Cramorant-Gorging with defensive Nature and Evs. The moves don't even matter as you almost always just switch out right away to heal back up. As long as you don't switch it in to a super effective move you get to do 25% and paralyze while remaining health by switching out before opponent can target it, healing off the chip damage done to it when you switched it in.
I like that I knew exactly why Shedinja was specifically banned as soon as you said so
idk the strength sap liquid oozd back and forth sounds hilarious and fin
For breakfast today I had Thai leftovers and a Doctor Pepper.
One of the better sleep moves with fast no guard pokemon is actually Sing, very few if any players are going to take Soundproof as an ability, and ever since the addition of Safety Goggles that 100% accurate spore is suddenly a detriment, or Prankster Substitute that denies Spore, Hypnosis and Dark Void. Sing bypasses Substitute, and is unable to be made immune to unless ones ability is Insomnia due to Worry Seed play, or Sound Proof
why ban liquid ooze instead of strength sap???
Because strength sap is an interesting move that already has strong counterplay in magic bounce
Because someone on the board likes stall
I did not know Cramorant performed such deeds. Thank you for bringing this to my attention Jimothy
I definitely think giving up your entire ability just counter one move puts you at the disadvantage. I'd see it as a gimmick that gets you a win here and there, but sacrificing a better synergizing ability seems like a net loss.
It is a net loss, it's fishing for Match ups which Smogon really hates.
W Maplestory music. Great video!
The Comatalk Whirlwind has me crying of laughter 😂😂😭😭
loving ur vids bro, thanks for the perfect vids for my lunch breaks 👍
The sleep talk revival blessing combo reminds of the stupid revive cats strat that basically shut down nat dex ag
Liquid ooze ban still to this day sounds like a whiny higher up smoggie raging that he couldn't spam strength sap due to liquid ooze. Literally the one thing it was good for was checking strength sap and to me that looks very suspect
Well, the council really loves stall, go figure :^)
Yeah the ONLY thing it was good for was countering liquid ooze, abilities are the strongest thing in hackmons and using it to counter one move was incredibly uninteresting, it's like if there was an item that cur your hp im half but made you completely immune to landarous, it wouldn't be fun or good, just annoying
Love you’re content jimothy!!
Jimothy I am apparently in your top 0.1% of viewers. Thank you for everything you do.
I find the Liquid Ooze ban the most interesting of the ones listed. It got banned because it hard counters 1 specific but really good move. My first thought goes to Explosion in gens 1-4. That's a high risk, high reward move. If the opponent has a Ghost type or even just a Rock or Steel type, you could get nothing out of going boom. There are differences, obviously. Explosion can only be used once no matter what so it'll always be high risk. SS can be used several times risk free. Explosion is clicked to try and take something out while SS is used to heal and help against physical attackers. But also, it's easier to scout the counterplay to Explosion. Wait till you see their team for a Ghost, Rock or Steel type, wait till they're gone or you feel safe they won't come out and click it. Meanwhile for SS, given the format, there's no way to tell, even with team preview that there's an SS counter on the opposing team. And Magic Bounce works for the analogy too. Liquid Ooze counters SS harder than Magic Bounce just as Ghosts counter Explosion harder than Rock or Steel types. Not a perfect analogy obviously. People don't run Gengar in gens 1-4 just to counter Explosion, meanwhile Liquid Ooze was only ran to counter SS.
So, why didn´t they just ban sleep talk?
That move has only ever been used for bs (outside of maybe Gen 2).
because comatose doesnt have any utility outside of cheese since purifying salt almost fully outclasses it
to be fair if a groudon tried to snuggle me i think i'd literally die
I don't get it. I finally have access to my most broken idea ever, which is an army of speed boost/multiscale geomancy Arceus with my fave move Splash, yet I still can't win.
What am I doing wrong?
I think it could be really cool to do a video on gen 9 LC vs gen 1ZU and see which is stronger. I suspect gen 9 LC but then you could find out which generations of LC are closest in power level to gen 1 ZU. Love your videos
You could make this an entire series, I want to see what other wacky abilities are banned in BH and why
Gen 6 hackmons was my competitive pokemon career peak of 1500
I actually guessed Shedinja's ban reason before you said it, very nice.
I haven't played hackmons since early gen 8, but I do remember getting owned by liquid ooze when my triage buzzswole had what seemed like an easy win, so I imagine it could also serve as counterplay for that?
Innards out reminds me of seeing my friend miss a Hi Jump Kick against Blissey in Gen II and just instantly dying for basically the same reason, except it's only 1/8th of the damage that would have been taken. (It turned into half for a couple gens afterward, before becoming half of your own HP instead. Gen 1 crash damage is always 1 HP, probably because of Gen 1 Magic).
OMG i played so much gen 6 hackmons. i remember running underpowered pokemon sets to catch specific legendaries off guard. my favorite will always be completely vanilla golduck for p-groudon though. shits hilarious.
Wouldn't the Shedinja Endeavor strategy be better off with something like vaccum wave? Yeah i know that it's a physical attacker, but your opponent is on 1 hp. They're basically dead to anything and the move doesn't make contact.
Strength sap is my least favorite move so this knowledge ruined my day
Same
Innards Out Blissey is the bane of my existence in gen7 hackmons. ._.
I do hope one day that Shedinja, try's to be part of the horse council like Magcargo did.
if you strength sap a liquid ooze it's kinda your fault for not scouting harder
I don't understand how Imposter Chansey hasn't been banned yet.
Personally my favourite hackmon is Shuckle with Good as Gold, Cotton Guard, Body Press and Strenght Sap
Wouldn’t Shedinja with Magic Guard and Focus Sash be stronger than one with Sturdy and Heavy Duty Boots? The former could only lose to item removal, whereas the latter still loses to any indirect damage that isn’t hazards? Or does focus sash only proc once/item removal is common enough that it’s a negligible difference? Genuinely curious
Focus sash will only ever activate once and then be consumed, sturdy always activates as long as you're at full HP
@ makes sense, thank you!
Hmm. I'ma bring Swalot on their Abroliva in randbats next time I have a chance. It'll be fun to see it just die.
they ban liquid ooze but not dazzling ? bruh.
Perfect 3 am timing Mr. Jimothy.
Imposter Chansey is really fun because Eviolite and Lucky Punch both work while transformed, and you still benefit from Chansey's massive health. So often times you're either transforming into an enemy sweeper but you always have more health, often have more defense, and just as often have a super high crit rate.
In regular Hacked Mons it's normal to run Spooky Plate and Judgement on a ghost type sweeper, just to counter Imposter. Without a Spooky Plate the transformed pokemon will have a Normal type Judgement and thus can't hit ghosts.
The best counterplay was to run sub on your sweeper. Since if you're behind a sub when the chansey switches in Imposter won't activate.
But then substitute got banned....
Does this mean v-create sunkern will finally be viable?
Imagine Lickitung in this tier.
Awesome video
I'm assuming that Pokémon that would naturally have banned abilities-- such as Azumarill and Diggersby with huge power, Komala with Comatose, Thievul and Gumshoos with Stakeout, etc--are also not allowed to run those abilities, even if they're not broken or even good with them. Which sucks if that's the case.
Yeah sorta sucks but
1. Any pokemon with a broken ability usually doesn't see play in hackmons anyway and
2. Most those Pokemon wouldn't even run their abilities if they could
@@Briggetchu25 Yeah, I get the first part. It really isn't an issue of viability, just, well, it feels kinda shitty that lower-tier pokemon who were defined by their ability or only relevant because of it can't use it anymore because a stronger pokemon can abuse it better. Given that most of those busted-ass abilities are given to pokemon who either are good because of those abilities or aren't good even with those abilities it leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth that they cannot even make use of their defining features that are not broken when used by said pokemon.
Also I really just wanna see Diggersby with Extreme Speed. A route-one rodent hitting harder with Extreme Speed than E-Killer Arceus amuses me.
Free strength sap
Personally shedinja would be even more broken if As One let you give any pokemon two abilities. With both Sturdy and Magicguard I don’t think it’s possible to beat Shedinja.
We have the ubiquitous move that everybody uses because it's so good, but there's only one ability that makes it completely useless. What should be done? Of course, ban the ability that has no reason to be used besides countering the omnipresent move
because people enjoy what the move brings to the game, and the counter to it isnt fun, and theres other healthier counters to it
sturdinja and endeavor ice shard go hard
Can you give Aron extreme speed/sucker punch?
wait that strength sap interaction is hilarious lmaoo
The liquid ooze take is wack, i think. Its like banning magic bounce in a meta with legal sleep because it punishes spore too hard.
Hackmons is a competitive pokemon format where the game is pushed to its absolute limits.
But can you hax a mon into a horse?
Is Scolipede a horse? I heard him talking shit about how he’s more horse than slugma.
I
Hackmons is a competitive format where the game is pushed to its absolute limits, and you can pull off some serious nonsense.
when will jimothychu make an appearance
So am I crazy or is this a reupload
Edit it is not a re-upload it was just a similar upload 3 months ago
What about raikou wonder guard air balloon
Is mold breaker not allowed to counter shedinja? Or arena trap toxic/sandstorm?
No point in running mold breaker when you're most likely running sunsteel/moongeist/photon geyser anyway, arena trap is indeed banned, weather can be bypassed with sunny day/rain dance, and toxic can be bypassed with aromatherapy/heal bell/safeguard/etc
@@rainbowthedragoncat6768Sounds like the consequences of trying to fix pure hackmons. Shedinja is a meme in that format.
ok the liquid ooze counterplay is fair and valid, strength sap is just ew
Can I modify base stats in hack mons?
No
All the bans were dealing with a single strategy that would single-handedly deal with most strategies and therefore twist the meta-game into a very filtered selection of strategies. EXCEPT the liquid ooze one, which is the complete opposite case a single strategy to counter a single move that single-handendly invades and twists many strategies. By all arguments Strenght Sab should be banned or just unban Shedninja, if using broken moves that plagues the metagame is part of the fun then why not allows broken mons that does the same?
I know Alolan Muk is better in every way, but I am a drapion fan through and through
I guess it was obvious the eternamax etternatus was banned, but why its banned is intresting.
Due to have such ridiculously high defensive stats if it has a defense boosting natures and investing 240 ev's your defesive stat rolled over and end up at 0, which cause the damage formula to break and you are effectively immune to that type of damage. It can be seen in freezias video
ruclips.net/video/PifV0XOxjxk/видео.html&ab_channel=Freezai
Balanced hackmons was my favourite tier in previous gens but HO isn’t even viable this gen making it pretty boring. In the previous gen balance teams were the strongest but HO was quite viable.