Faulty ZIPP 303s, what to check, and how to fix them.
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Remember the Zipp 303s that were wobbling after just a couple of rides? Well, they are back. Here is the outcome an a whole load of useful bearing info you probably couldn't care less about. We talk about solutions from NTN, SKF, Enduro and why they may or may not work for you.
We add a little more detail on the answers from the @Hambini channel. Essentially the outcome is, if you have issues. Send them back to your retailer ASAP.
The ZIPP hubs have various designs and some take to non genuine bearings better than others.
#Zipp #bikebearings #bikemechanic
The 'C' is not the shaft clearance, it is the internal clearance between the inner and outer race.
bought the 1st gen 303S - they were like water sponges and would not shed water caught in the wheel frame from 1 light rain ride (later versions drilled a hole to let water out during manufacturing). Support & product management offered to drill holes at the factory if I returned the wheels to their Indianapolis factory. Also the bearings were in such bad shape (rusted out) after 3 months of riding dry roads, and a few soft washes which Zipp refused to replace. This video explains why I had that problem - Thank you
So much for lifetime warranty, and trying to save a few dollars on cheaper wheels (not that cheap)
Thankfully the retail distributor accepted the return for credit as they had other customer complaints ---Zipp would not accept a return or replace. Will never buy another Zipp/SRAM product. Replaced with ENVE wheels and never looked back.
I've had numerous hub bearings sent to me for analysis, the bearings turned out to be fake and allegedly supplied by bike shops that sourced them from "bona fide" SKF and NTN dealers... Scandlous behaviour but it happens regularly.
Stainless Steel bearings have a much lower load rating than "standard" bearings, Stainless steel is great for corrosion resistance but it's quite soft.
Standard ZIPP bearings were/are made by HUX.
Thanks again for the info. We defo uncovered some fakes in the pandemic, and I defo get really nervous ordering NTN now.
I purchased pair of Zipp 303s end of January and waiting for Conti 5000 S TR tyres and better weather to arrive. Got the tyres - weather not so good but cant wait so going for the fit this weekend. Checked bearing numbers and front has 6903 E and rear has 6803 E. Not sure what to make of this but will check for any play/creaking after first few 100 miles . Thanks for the tip off re bearings which could be useful if I need to go back to Sigma Sports.
I have a decade or so in auto parts rebuilding and re-use of bearings is common. On my bikes I clean and re-grease bearings. I even made a jig to re-grease metal shielded bearings. All good so far.
you can get a lot of life out of bearing if you do this before they start to wear. nice.
Thanks for the clarifying video! I was on the deep dive on 303S, as a 10+ years Zipp user (808, 808 FC, 808 NSW, for LD Tri). Now I'm looking for a road/CX set, and 303s was a good option. I will go for a DT240 + CX Rays+ 45mm rim, custom build by a experiencied wheelbuilder.
Yes. Great plan.
I use the Enduro SS angular contact bearings for my Trek Madone BB90. Hambini doesn’t seem to see their worth, but I’ve had good results with them. I like that they can handle (and require) additional preload during set up. I think AC is the right choice for a crank where you’re also putting in side to side force along with the up and down. I lift the seal off and put extra Phil Woods hydrophobic grease in there before install. The Trek BB90 non drive side has a bad problem with fluid ingress due to the frame shape and it funnels water right to the dust seal. I put extra grease between the bearing and dust seal and remove the crank every few months and clean and replace that external grease. Plus I’ve used 3M 2228 mastic tape trimmed and formed to create a tiny gutter above the bb area on the frame to sort of guide around and away any water coming down the frame from sweat or water bottle condensate. Rain forget it. As a result of all that, I’ve gotten great life out of my bb bearings, whereas before using standard bike shop fitted bearings, they were making noise usually within a year.
Good info dude. thanks for sharing.
@@Mapdec can you change the zipp 176d 3 pawls to star ratchet type like dt swiss?
I very much doubt it.
you and Hambini: super nice source of knowledge ;-) thank you both
I really appreciated the technical detail of this video, regards o
I have the newer 303s and 303 firecrest (177 and zr1 hubs)
Enthralled with these issues as these are not cheap wheels, and I have other non zipp sets with zero issues over years and thousands of miles and abuse in all weather conditions. 303s rear had lateral play within 6 months- replaced with non zipp 6903 (Nachi quest) problem solved for a year now mounted on a gravel bike in dirt/ wet conditions.
303 firecrest driver bearings and wheel bearings junk (gritty internal, exterior race corroded)after 300 miles, replaced driver b’s with DT 3803, (zipp manual recommend replacing entire driver- (no thanks, people are crooks) replaced wheel bearings with non zipp (nachi quest) and all good, spin much better now.
My question is why no other wheel Mfg’s seem to have this issue?
I’m not even going into why the entire operation seems to also depend on that stupid little wave washer on non drive side that will flatten and break easily, causing everything to basically fail.
Other sets I have are completely problem free. My thoughts after all of this is they make neat looking hoops with little golf ball dimples in them but everything else is over rated crap - look elsewhere if you want a wheel that simply does it’s job without constant maintenance and headaches
Aye. Great rims. Every other part is trash.
Hi there great video thank you. I’m in Australia and have a set of the 302 rim break rims…..how much should I pay for a set of genuine zipp bearings… one web site has them for crazy prices
@Mapdec i'm considering a Zipp 303's wheelset. Looking at this known issue with the bearings would be a bit off putting. Being based in Ireland with bad weather, bearing changes are a service item. I generally do all my wheels once a year, either swapping them out of repacking with fresh grease. I can get SKF and NTN bearings relatively easily, listening to your comments here suggest that neither of the above options from NTN or SKF will give problem free solution.
Some mechanics have reported success with NTN bearings. It is hit and miss though. Have a read though the comments.
1:03 if you've ever packed cup and cone bearings you'd notice the wheel bearings are on the outside of the hub driver (end of this axle)
If you look at these new sealed sets you can see the bearing is actually INBOARD of the spokes, its nearly in the center of the dang rim.
The 9 is 6903 literally stands for weak as bearing. Its the least load bearing they make :( but if I was racing it is possible to do a ten minute bearing swap which is handy
great videos @mapdeccycleworks. solid bit of bearing detective work going on here. I have Zipp 302 disc wheelset on 176D hubs with the same issue. trying to determine what rear wheel bearings to buy. I did fit some enduro ones and they are 1) knackered (again....) and 2) kept squeeking like a little birdy which drove me nuts!! what i couldnt work out from all of the videos was do i need a (correctly faced) non-contact bearing for the non drive side and a contact bearing for the drive side? or can i just use (correctly faced) 2 x contact bearings for better weatherproofing and/or 2 x non-contact bearings for better performance. hope that makes sense.
Just buy the genuine Zipp ones. Sucks, but they are the only ones that reliably fit well.
@@Mapdec any recommendations for where to source them? Based in uk.
@@benwright939 every bike shop will be able to order them. From a major distributor we all use.
Was waiting till the end for you to say when you fitted the wheel it still had play or noise. I’ll stick with my Corima wheels
Thanks for the video. I recently started hearing the knocking coming from my rear hub on my Zipp 303 disc Firecrest.
We haven’t seen this issue on firecrests.
@@Mapdec I see, I've only heard the noise so far. I haven't taken them apart yet. I will do some further investigation.
I have a similar issue with the springs that hold the hub core pins in place rusting, resulting in a knocking.
Turns out the knocking noise was seat rails. I can induce a click noise if I grab the tire and manually move the wheel laterally. But the knocking noise I was hearing while riding is gone now that I took care of the seat rails.
Don'd do as I did. Noticed big play in the rear bearings after only 6 moths use and removed disc and cassette to view which bearing thats was in my wheel (303s rear).
As i bought them new from Bike24 and had "Life time warranty" from them and Zipp I made a warranty claim. Unfortunately the claim was turned down by Zipp/SRAM because one rubbers sealing was missing and "that had caused water to get in to the bearing". I can understand that but it was me who missed to mount it after my own little inspection, it was there when I started investing this.... my bad. So now I have to replace the bearing myself but I think I'll manage that but I would be super happy if anyone could give me the bearing/model number on all (4?) bearings needed and also where I can buy these. Great video that unfortinutely made my warranty fail, all because of me.
For what its worth I have found that the non drive side axle diameter (where the bearing sits) is slightly smaller than the drive side resulting in the non drive side bearing having a small amount of play. This is the reason for the lateral play in the wheels and not the bearings.
Oh. Good spot.
Hmm. So a new axle would‘nt solve the problem? I also have that tiny wobble/play in the rear wheel of my zipp 303 firecrests. after the original bearings was totally rusted after 1000km of riding, i changed the driver and the hub bearings to zipps ceramic bearings. I did that with a proper bearing press etc. So im sure that everything is installed in the right way. But i still have that tiny play in the wheel. I thought maybe the old axle is worn out and that causes the play. but I dont know if i want to spend another 80-100 Euros for a new Axle, without beeing sure that that solve the Problem.
@@christianzwengel1059 I've tried several different makes of bearings and all result in the same issue. In my opinion it can only be an issue with the axle itself. I have done more than 5000 miles since identifying this problem and it doesn't seem to be getting any worse. I am now considering buying a new axle ( expensive ) in the hope that they have resolved this problem.
How long did it take to send to Zipp? Did you have to send to U.S.A. ? How much money did it cost to send to Zipp?
4 days. Zipp in UK, Zipp pay. This all assumes you have receipt and wheels are in warranty.
C3 etc refers to the internal bearing clearance (play) , i.e. between inner race, (balls) and outer race
You might wonder why a bicycle wheel calls for larger clearance than "normal". Do they expect high temperatures, or masking sloppy manufacturing of the hubs/axles?? Rgr
No markings on the bearings 🤔 that's worrying, you can't identify them.
I think ZIPP have run out of bearings....
@Mapdec Cycle Works thats concerning and interesting in equal measure. Does this mean that you don't need to use Zipp bearings only to know where alternatives are ?
Beware using 'Max' bearings in wheel applications. They are intended for non-constant load, and due to maxing the number of balls, the space for lube is reduced and without that lube, the bearings will fail prematurely in a constant load application.
Eek. Did I not make that clear enough in the vid?
Bit confused, have these wheels on my road bike, doesn't seem like play in bearings yet after 2000km ( hux 6903 E). Planning on putting them on gravel bike. Should I? Or will I be replacing the bearings regularly after the increase in muck, dust, moisture? Ans if so where can i get them and which ones are best? Thanks in advance
I have just received my new bike from Ribble with the Zipp 303s wheels and on my first ride the front wheel seems to have this problem! Strange because Ribble told me that their reason my bike took a week from being ‘built’ to being ‘dispatched’ was because of their extensive PDI checks!
That sucks. Get it sent back.
@@Mapdec well the wheels I will yes. I just checked the bearings and they are the 6903E ones you mentioned in this video so thank you for this. It at least confirms it and gives me a reference to send to dribble
Trek BB90 certain frames also have a problem with the Netmolded shell being slightly too big. There was a special bearing out there that was 37.1mm instead of 37. And this was the ideal fix if you had one of those frames, except that bearing is hard if not impossible to find right now. Real world cycling advises to take the bearing, outer race well cleaned, and take Teflon thread sealing tape and wrap it around the outer bearing race a few times, 3-5?, trial and error I suppose, and push into bb shell, carefully trim as needed excess. Assembled otherwise as normal. This has supposedly had good results keeping the bearing in the netmold with no play.
Yes. There are actually a few solutions that that now. Token make a BB for it, and Trek do a carbon repair if you are still the original owner.
@@Mapdec I wasn’t aware of the Token or carbon repair? Do you have links to either? Could you do a video? Mine is fine but my sons non drive side is bigger than the required 37mm and I’m trying out the Teflon tape fix just waiting for him to ride it again.
Great info. I have Zipp 303s on my road bike, a friend has offered to swap(+£300 from me) his Vision Metron 45 SL as he wants the Zipp for his gravel bikepacker. He says the Vision are better for my Road bike anyway. Take deal? 😅
Haha. Hell yeah. I’d pay someone to take my 303s away. Joking aside. The visions are good. Freehub works similar to CK. pretty sure they are hooked rims too.
@@Mapdec Wow! On the ball with that reply. The exchange is in order. Thanks! So many people wish your shop was closer to the south. 🤣
My brand new set of 303 firecrest tubeless disc only spin freely if I do not tighten de thru axle, a minimal, minimal tight in the thru axle cause it a little "sticky", is ti normal? I only ride 25 miles yet.... Thanks for to help
Wish I'd known this before buying some 303S a few months ago. Just checked and I have 6903E LUV CW printed on the bearings
How are they holding up? Just keep an eye on them and get them straight back to the retailer at first sign of wobble.
@@Mapdec they're on my winter bike so mainly used in crap weather but no sign of wear so far. Only 5 months old though
@@nicknick194 WHat's the latest update Nick?
@@elevenocean4471 I've actually just found that the freehub bearing is rough and there is a little bit of play in the inner hub bearing when the freehub is removed. No movement when the wheel is clamped in the bike though. Pretty annoyed, wish I'd bought something else.
Funny you spoke about direct drive trainers as my Hammer H3 has started creeking like mad and I first thought there was something wrong with my bikeframe or something
I have had the same issue on a new pair of Zipp 303S, play in the rear axle from new. The same 6093E bearings.
Two rides in, one damp ride and the non-drive side bearing was toast, dry and rusted to hell.
Despite your advice I just couldn't be bothered returning them on warranty.
The Zipp bearings were hardly super prescision German/Swiss bearings, but cheap as chips CW Bearings from China.
Dissapointing, but at £650 for the pair they can hardly be considered anything but budget wheels, what do you expect?
Once I had the over axle adapter (thanks Hambini), they were replaced in 10 minutes with genuine NTN LLB non contact sealed bearings and the wheels are utterly transformed. I will see how the LLB seals last in a UK summer, maybe LLU next time.
No creaks, no play, just super magic carpet riding beauties.
For the £650 paid, plus a couple of new bearings the Zipp 303's are now absolutely outstanding, performing way above the discounted price level.
Do all these disc hubs have a design issue which kills the non-drive side bearing.
The rotor retaining cap lets in water which sits between the cap and bearing with no where to go.
Not sure even a full contact seal bearing can cope with that in a damp climate, then stored in a damp garage?
No. The cognition v2 hubs are actually very good
Thanks very much indeed for the follow-up. This is maddening as Zipp bearings are currently OOS for "12-14 weeks" according to the UK distributor!
My go-to replacement would also be NTN 6903 bearings with the LLU seals (for mortals rather than hill climb champs), but if they squeak then what else can we try?
Also have to say the "self-eating" freehubs where the external bearing is non-replaceable and likely to disintegrate is also a huge design fail!
We may just have to try the NTNs anyway as folks just can't ride their bikes otherwise :/
The warranty department will have some
I've just fitted some 303FCs. Touch wood they are great so far after about 200 miles. It seems like every other wheel brand has problems.
FC are much better
@@Mapdec I'm looking for another wheelset for my gravel bike, think DT Swiss GR1600 would be robust with the 350 hubs.
Thanks for the video. My 303 FCs just arrived the other days and I've got the no serial number bearings so let's hope I'm good down the road... The only issue I have is a very odd ticking / rattling 'inside' the rims that seems to be coming from the valve side and also the opposite side on both the front and rear wheels. This is on bare wheels spun freely by hand, with no cassette or tyres fitted. Deffo not a bit of carbon burr from spoke drilling (I've got plenty of experience of that) it's not coming from the hubs (bearings) and it's not coming from the crossed spokes (again, been there many times in the past). I can also replicate the sound by lightly shaking the wheels. Anyone know if this is a peculiarity of the post 2020 Zipps? I've never heard it on any of my older 303/404 or other carbon wheels.
Weird. I haven’t had issues with the FireCrest. That noise could be a little bit of the packing they use for compression in the mould. The only way to tell is to get the rim tape off and poke about with a sharp pick. Or get them sent back inside your 30days.
@@Mapdec I thought about that too - but it's the fact the sound comes from exactly the same areas on BOTH wheels. It's very odd.
Hi, within the driver body between the two 6803 bearings there is an alloy core and a very thin washer shim. Does it matter which end the shim fits inside the driver body, thanks.
nearly always yet, although I can't picture it right now
So I’ve put the thin washer ring /shim between the alloy spindle core and the bearing which just sits inside the driver/freehub body at the pawl end.
Should I use NTN 6903 2RS LLU for the main hub body ?
@@MikeGreaves-cx2xe bring your wheel in if you have questions.
Today I replaced my tires on my Zipp 303s, and when I was shaking the tire to spread the sealant the hub popped open and when I put it down out of suprize even some of the ratchet teeth (don't know the name of these) jumped out... is it supposed to come open this easily? Then I spend 20 minutes just to get it fitting again, whatever I tried I couldn't close it and then suddenly it just popped in, don't know what I did to make that happen even...
As if I didn't have stress enough already getting those fucking tubeless tires to seal... (Vittoria Corsa Pro Control), they keep leaking so I added a bit more sealant...
Pretty normal.
Creaking video! Seriously. Have you had similar issues with Scribe wheels/bearings? Any ideas what I should replace mine with? Keep up the quality content!
Scribe are pretty standard for, nothing special to report. Choose your price point.
Zipp/Sram service centre just told me a standard 61903 bearing will work. Now I’m really confused!
Interesting maybe they have run out of bearings. Read through the comments. Some have had good luck with other brands. My experience is that wheels I fix with non genuine Zipp bearings tend to come back a few weeks later. Even SKF etc.
@@Mapdec Thanks for reply. I reckon they have definitely run out of the magic bearings. I’m lucky to have some great LBS, will see what they say bearing wise… or just put a DT 350 in the damn wheel 😂
Would it be worth buying a set of Ceramicspeed bearings or is it too much faf?
I haven’t tested, but check all the info I gave here to make a decision if you want to try.
Heres a quick fire solution, throw the zipps away because they're meant for landfill and buy some bontrager rim brake wheels and whilst you at it why not buy a rim brake bike to match? Maybe external cables too? Like maybe an old school cadel evans canyon perhaps?? 😉😉
you ok Olek?
@@Mapdec i am internally oppressed by big brands who don't care about their end product lasting more than 2 rides thats all 😉😉😂😂
Never touch zippwheel owned by sram are over priced very hard to get spares I have a pairwise hope hubs brilliant still working fine
These wheels aren't terribly expensive. As for their other wheels, they're not overpriced. You're paying for wheels made in the US where Zipp/SRAM is paying US wages to all their employees. Not sure what you do but do you want whatever product you produce to cost as much as it would if it were made in India and you got corresponding wages?
loving the #aviodfootball films/chats.
Thanks for watching Christopher
Anybody else’s 303s free hub body and cassette falling out when they take off the back wheel 🙈
You're going to have to stop this bloke. Sharing objective helpful information learned from experience and knowing when to acknowledge other learned peers. How are you going to make money doing that? Do you need to speak to squarespace or surfshark or athletic greens or someone? Strooth! 🙂
Lol. Thanks. You would be surprised how many folk drive hundreds of miles to have their bikes serviced by us because they see our work on RUclips.
@@Mapdec Nope, not surprised at all. 🙂
A good wheel design is not critically dependent on tiny obscure details. Plus, Zipp wheels are hookless, which is just silly.
Keep the rim throw away the hubs buy some dt hubs LOL no i know these are the ones that only have a handful on miles personally if it was me id be asking for my money back
Yeah. I think you have it right there.
@@Mapdec I have 303S wheels - how much roughly to change a hub on a wheel set with say DT Swiss hubs?
@@CornishColin you're looking at about $350 for the hubs and $150 for the wheel build depending on the spokes you pick out. Not sure it's worth it unless you need new hubs due to wear. These Zipp hubs aren't nearly as bad as their first few generations of hubs. This was just a QC miss that happens to everyone, including DT Swiss
@@veganpotterthevegan Thanks - yep agree - hopefully they'll be ok with the usual maintenance.
@CornishColin they should be if they were built to tolerance. Unless you're very heavy or riding tons of gravel, you should be able to get close to 10k miles on them before I'd even have the bearings looked at.
*their previous bearings really were a total nightmare🙃 Many people had to adjust the preload every 300-500 miles and the creaking was terrible. They should have just bought hubs from elsewhere instead of doing it wrong their own way(americans love that). They did have extremely low drag for steel bearings which was their goal but the maintenance was terrible for people that were riding their Zipps as every day wheels. The hubs you have are their first hub you can ride every day so long as there were new QC issues with your hub
so don't buy zipp - got it.
Why SO complicated 🤷🏻♂️ Mine have gone in a couple of hundred miles, absolute garbage…. Do not, repeat, do not buy Zipp wheels!!!!
Thx for this video, i have 303s and bearings on front and back both failed inside 2,000 miles. V poor. Zipp lifetime warrantee is no good hey wouldn't pay for new bearings. I would advise avoid 303s they are great if they worked but this bearing issue isn't worth the hassle.