Sony A9 III - 1st GLOBAL | KINDA! | Again ‘Standing On the Shoulders of Giants!’ | Let’s Discuss
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2024
- #nikon #canon #sonya9III
With the A9III Sony has worked very hard to get to where it has in the market. Let's not forget it could not have happened without the rest of the industry. This and much much more we discuss in this wide ranging discussion with @FramesTM and @photographydiscourse1185 please check out their channels and give them a like and a sub.
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00:00 Intro to Baron and Mainak
00:45 Intro to the Sony A9 III
01:00 Who else has global shutter?
01:45 The Birth of Sony Alpha 35mm Mirrorless
02:30 Our latest favourite gear - Baron Plena
04:25 Baron also includes Z8 and 17-28 2.8
05:10 FRAMES Viltrox 75mm 1.2 APS-C
07:18 Frames other favourite Zf
08:38 I show my latest the DJI OMSO Pocket 3
11:02 SONY - STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS
11:20 My journey with 35mm Sony Alpha Mirrorless
12:47 Frames shares why he think Canon and Nikon had not moved to mirrorless - yet!
14:56 Baron shares his thoughts on our theme ‘Standing on the Shoulders of Giants’
16:10 What is Sony’s engineering philosophy
16:40 Sony purchased Minolta camera
17:30 ‘From the Minds of Minolta’ TV commercial
18:27 Sony start afresh
18:38 How good was the A7 and A7r
18:55 Is the A9 III a prototype for the future?
19:37 Are Sony pioneers?
20:10 Do Sony’s fail in the field?
20:50 Is Sony really pushing global tech, or is everybody working on it?
22:48 How is a Z9 II better than a Z9?
23:26 Global was the natural next step
24:15 Is the Z9/Z8 sensor manufactured by Sony?
24:30 Nikon makes Lithography machines which make semiconductors
24:50 Who makes the best semiconductors in the world?
25:12 Why has Sony not used the Z8 / Z9 sensor?
26:03 Apple has admitted working with Sony on Phone sensors for over the last decade
26:24 Sony sells Apple over 1 billion sensors per year
27:09 Nikon design their sensors
29:14 The secret recipe is the magic !!!
29:50 Who are the biggest companies that make semiconductors, does not include Sony
30:18 Why is it believed Sony has a monopoly on high end semiconductor fabrication?
30:40 I SAW THE FACE OF GOD IN A SEMICONDUCTOR FACTORY - MUST READ ARTICLE
31:42 Is Nikon dependant on Sony Electronics for Sensors?
33:50 Sony Semiconductor Solutions Group will act in the interests of all customers
35:00 Why has Sony not used the Z8/Z9 sensor?
36:00 Fuji 26MP APSC came before Sony version …
37:12 The camera industry is a co-dependant ecosystem
38:00 New Sony ergonomics, where did that come from?
38:20 If Sony pull the strings, why did they not use the Z8/Z9 sensor?
39:49 Is this camera industry rivalry fabricated ?
40:22 All cameras are amazing today!
43:26 A9 III gen 1 global?
43:40 Z8/Z9 sensor cuts more light than than A9 III when you compare 64 ISO 1/32000th to 250 ISO 1/80000th
44:30 So in the real world how does it impact Z8/Z9?
44:50 Who is the A9 III for - can you still succeed with the cheaper Z8 or Z9?
45:30 Is multiple flicker areas solved with A9 III ?
46:10 What is the best part of the A9 III?
46:51 Summing up standing on the shoulders of giants
47:45 THE autofocus war is over!
48:08 Sony’s new GLOBAL WAR!
50:20 Ron Pollard shoots golf with Z9, no rolling shutter issues
51:11 Is dynamic range impacted with A9 III global shutter?
52:15 There is a great deal of history in photography companies who created a market which Sony could jump into
53:25 Sony credit where credit is due
53:35 Would there be Nikon and Canon mirrorless without Sony?
55:15 Nobody thinks Sony is bad
56:32 Today, all companies are assisting each other
57:35 Goodbyes and Thanks You
58:25 This is the question we want you to answer !!! :)
Well done folks. Good to see the collaboration. And good job Sony for creating the new tech! This is good for all camera companies!
My Z8 seems to be the better value for a much cheaper price.
Appreciate the talk, guys!
Thank you for your comment and participation!
-PD
1. Much love to everyone using Sony to express their work, passion, art and voice.
2. Two people on the panel have been using Sony for a long time. I personally love many things that Sony does. The 1 thing that I dislike is that palpable toxicity and 'I know it all' attitude among some of the Sony fan club. Matt Granger said the same thing about 2 years back. Not a fan of that. One needs to watch the full video.
3. We are sharing a POV that is fresh. Which is important, because if you want to hear 'wow so great', let's just go to a Sony rep.
4. Sony haven't built their empire all alone. They have learnt from everyone. That's a good thing and that should be recognised.
5. I am eager to hear any specific complaint you may have. You can point out the inaccuracy if there is any. Is there anything factually wrong in the video? If not, you are venting and your complaint is not toward us or this awesome episode, but toward Sony A9III itself. You need it to be more bulletproof than it is. Cheers guys! ❤
Facts💯💯
Frames, your cell phone broken? :)
No other camera company has a pop song written about it. Paul Simon wrote a song in the early 70"s named" Kodachrome". " I've got a Nikon camera and love to take the photograph so don't take my Kodachrome away". So there ya go, thats why I shoot Nikon from the 1970s. until now. this was a great discussion guys thanks to all.
As someone who worked as a Semiconductor engineer in a large product diverse company I can almost guarantee that Sony sensors are different than Nikon sensors EVEN if they came from the same foundry.
They way the semi industry works is they have silicon wafers with certain geometry as far as how many conductors, types, and wiring are available. Chip designers (programmers) then figure how to wire up the circuitry to meet the requirements.
So Nikon , or whoever is their design shop, works with the foundry folks to build the final product which - I would bet, has some propitiatory design / programming. Otherwise all sensor and performance would be the same across the manufacturers.
Like one of you said - each division head would be responsible for their division P&L. The product the foundry sells is the completed and tested semi's that each manufacturer specifies.
Is there some commonality? Of course some internals have to be the same BUT the final code built into the internal circuitry will be different. The reason the menus are different.
Great discussion on this and you guys were right on!!
Exactly. Sony Semiconductor is just a "foundry" or "fab" - a print house. We have to distinguish the "logical design" (like the circuit drawing of an electrical circuit) from the physical design that converts the logical into the thing that gets printed. After all the machines that produce the chips ar extremely expensive and elevated 3D printers working at microscopic scales.
The relation between Sony and Nikon must stem from the late 90s when Nikon still made these "chip printers".
And, there must have been conditions in the contract between Nikon and Sony that cause "made by Sony Semiconductor" to be stamped on the chips out of the Sony foundry. Considering Nikon anally retentive about premature leaking of their new products (development), I can even imagine that Nikon decided to have Sony's name on it to prevent the workers on the foundry floor starting rumours about new Nikon stuff.
When Nikon and Sony started their client/vendor relationship, Sony had their analogue and video cameras, nothing digital that was significant. Then they bought Konica-Minolta and all-of-a-sudden there was a potential conflict of interests.
This is solved, in business, with "Chinese Walls" and crystal clear contracts. Sony may have set up a team of circuit designers paired with print designers and this may give better added value to them than in the case of Nikon-Sony (semiconductor). Such collaboration shifts the physical design review into the logical design and feasibility becomes an inherent quality. But "global" is likely in the stacked level, not the sensor. And Nikon could do the layer under the sensor with another foundry, even. If I were them, I would do that.
Nikon and Canon lost their market domination in the chip printer market end 1990s, early 2000s, and this was taken over by ASML. Both may return to making such machines and Canon already has advanced significantly to a return in the market after an acquisition.
To me the discussion that Sony made Nikon's sensors is really a distraction from photography. Also, it indicates the people who talk about the subject like that really don't know what they are talking about. It becomes a drag, a negative thing, and contributes nothing to my photography.
Before my retirement, I have worked for several large computer companies. Whenever we designed our own chip, we had our own part nomenclature , copyright and company name printed on the chip. Nikon does the same for their own designed processors. Apple does it for their design. Intel for their chip design ..etc. The sensor in the Z9 has a Sony Semiconductor nomenclature which is imx609-aqj. They are the owner of the chip design. If Nikon had their own designed sensor manufactured in an external foundry, it would have a Nikon nomenclature for that part. So in this case, Sony Semiconductor is not just a fab for a chip designed by Nikon, Sony designed the chip.
@@renestaempfli1071 - we don't know what is really going on. To have worked for several large, or 350,000 people in my case, IT companies, does not mean either of us is right. The implicit debate "out there" is about which company is the smart one. I would say, in the chip industry today, that's ASML.
If we refrain to the "sensor only" then there will be a collaboration between Nikon and Sony Semiconductor. This very likely was started with a big contract when the Sony fab first bought Nikon's chip printers. Today, the team in the fab working with Nikon will be behind "Chinese Walls" and under very strict Rules of Business Conduct and Ethics, thus isolated from the team working with Sony camera division, a separate legal entity. This is common practice in international outsourcing in e.g. IT or defence contracts.
On the factory floor, every sensor chip out of the print-line, however can start a rumour mill e.g. about "the next Nikon".
Even when Nikon agreed that Sony would have the intellectual property, we do not know the precise labour division.
These contracts will have been made before Sony (corporate, or camera division) bought Konica-Minolta and started to compete head on with Nikon.
Now, as you mention the Z 9 sensor's nomenclature, the question is what is the nomenclature of the stacked chip on the back of the sensor. That could equally well be fabbed by TSMC.
Bottom line, we get to the Bayer filter layer when colour photography is concerned. Cut-off wavelengths and filter decrease will determine the "colour science", as fluencers call it, by a lot. Here too, I would presume that Nikon make the design decisions themselves. The original Nippon Kogaku - Japan Optical Ltd.
First of All Tremendous Presentation!! @Matt As Someone Photographing the PGA Tour Championship I can directly attest to the Nikon Z9/Z8 being able to remove the Golf club bending with the proper technique!!! Shutter,speed,iso & proper angling we are talking absolutely phenomenal!! The Z9 captures Pro Golfer 125-135 mph swing speeds like NO OTHER!!! Now we will often show intentional motion blur in order to show golf head speed however if we want to we will completely freeze both golfer and his swing!!! The Z9Expeed 7 sensor is Game Changer indeed!!
Thanks Ron for sharing your thoughts and your images for this video, means a lot :)
@@MattIrwinPhotographyThe quality of your product/Insight/ & creativity continues to be inspiring while well reasoned man!! Keep On Shinning Sir💯💯 BTW Haters are a sure sign of Success my man! You are extremely fair to all sides so keep Going man!!!
Appreciate that Ron.
Ronald, where you been? Haven't heard a peep from you. Life happens I understand. :)
Great discussion guys, to me the term "Game Changer" is overused, the Global Shutter is more like the natural evolution of the camera and while Sony is the first to introduce it in a Hybrid Full Frame camera, global sensors already exist in Cinema cameras and in Manufacturing uses. To me you are paying a $3,500.00 premium for this capability which is not a game changer and basically other brands top models do not need to bow to this introduction, I don't hear people complaining about distorted fan blades or baseball bats and golf clubs so decide how much you want to pay. Sony is a marketing expert in part to their Consumer Electronics experience, doesn't mean they don't mislead and I have caught them all on not revealing compromises you make to do certain things that are heavily advertised.
LOL it's only overused when it's Sony right. lol
@Vahagraphy Well I don't have a problem with Sony but the use of that term is similar to one using a click bait title to get attention. I don't tell people what to buy and I would argue of my 56 years of using cameras I've probably used more brands and models of cameras than most. Just enjoy the gear you own and do research before buying into the marketing hype of any camera brand, make sure it works for you.
This is an awesome video. I read through some of the comments and it is unfortunate that you get called names and beat up for such a good video. I love the way you ask people to back up their claims with facts and they go quiet or deflect. I love Nikon and will go make great pictures with my Z9 and Z8 and even my Z6II. I have nothing against Sony or Canon but Nikon is my choice. Sony fan boys have beat up on Nikon for years and now when you say something that doesn’t sing the praises of Sony, you get called names. The crazy thing is is that you are not bashing Sony, only stating your opinions…I again say thank you to all of you for this informative video. Keep doing what you are doing.
Thanks Marcus
Hi Marcus - you hit the nail on the head. The hypocrisy from Sony fanboys is INSANE! They take their consumer electronics seriously though - I'll give them that lol.
Thanks for watching and for adding constructively to the discourse!
-PD
Brooooo This is 💯💯💯🔥🔥🔥 And the amazing YT hypocrisy is remarkably pathetic! Toxic is only the beginning definition oh How The “Sonyites” react! Again Matt you are indeed Winning!!!
It is unfortunate that people are like that in so many industries. Dodge vs Ford vs Chevy…home theater equipment arguments…which brand of guitar is best…it gets so tired…when someone has pay value in a brand, they can’t stand for someone to make a comment that says that brand isn’t the greatest thing since sliced bread. In the camera industry, RUclips has made it maybe the most toxic. I hate to say this but it seems that Sony is the most toxic…(my opinion of course). The Canon vs Nikon battles of the past were far more civil so I can only look at the new dog in the fight and the increase in toxic behavior and blame the new dog and the influx of influencers for the current state. Again, great video and always good to hear or read the comments and opinions from a photographer I admire in Ron Pollard
Yip the Z Mount advantage >> Other Brands just snipe at Nikon asa result
Loved the video and commentary. You guys are spot on. Thank you.
Thank you for your comments and support!
-PD
Excellent discussion guys, you held my full attention from the start 👏🏻
Re: A9III being essentially a prototype for the future, 100% agreed
Thanks for this wide-ranging discussion. Interesting for me as something of a technophobe -- in that I don't follow closely every development in the market. I am, unapologetically, a Nikon shooter, as I have been for over 4 decades. Not that I haven't used other camera brands -- many, in fact.
My first autofocus camera was the Minolta 7xi, the whole system awarded me as a juried show prize (for my still-popular roller coaster image). I only used it for a few months before selling it ... because I wasn't convinced I needed autofocus and preferred my Nikons and medium format Hasselblad. I've always judged camera gear on its usefulness to me personally and my business. I value build-quality and ergonomics highly. All the top cameras today are capable of making great photos. The rest is personal. I agree that the A9 III is a (very expensive) prototype and, as I said in *my* video, it'll be interesting to see how the other brands respond.
Thank you Raymond - we appreciate your kind words and considered comments! We also appreciate your channel :)
-PD
@@photographydiscourse1185 Cheers!
Sony basically used Minolta technology for Cameras and took help from Zeiss to get started. So definitely standing on the shoulders of giants definitely
So what, then you'd better buy a Leica if that's important to you 😂
Far out Jess, that is not what he said, what are you doing, you just saying stuff and hoping to get a rise ...
@@JessDemant 😂 You mean, to say “Jess learnt a lot from his dad” would imply “Jess’s GF should date Jess’s dad”!
@@MattIrwinPhotography I think it is totally irrelevant if a brand stands on the shoulders of another brand, because what counts is what they are producing right now.
When the Nikon Z9 came out, I praised it and said that Sony should also make such a camera instead of finding individual negative points, which are also found with the Nikon Z9, you can't have everything!
Jess you think it is irrelevant, I think it is important. That is a difference of opinion. And that is ok. You also spent a lot of time telling us how bad Z6 etc were, back in the day. You felt the need to share that ...
Sony bring the big consumer marketing money and brand name into the market, just like PlayStation vs. Xbox, what i think this drives is a perceived obsolescence in their products.
Excellent thanks guys!!
Whoa my gosh...I love the Sony cameras. They're so easy to use, it does everything for you. Even though they are just Point and Shoot Cameras with Full Frame Sensor and Interchangeable lens, it does everything you all by itself and you don't have to be a real photographer to use Sony Full Frame Mirrorless cameras. I also purchased a replacement plan for the camera for when it over-heat and break down after six months of use, I get a new replacement camera right away and Sony's fast customer service is the best in the world as they replace many broken down electronics.
That's great! So glad that is working out for you :)
-PD
@@photographydiscourse1185 Yes, it is absolute crap but I love it.
Intelligent conversation
Took the pocket 3 to Mexico. The small screen is misleading because you don't think it's focal length is strong enough but when you play it back on a 4K huge TV it blew me away. Great post Matt. That Viltrox looks amazing too. The plema is fascinating but I don't stopt often at 135 but will check it out too.
From the same author - “Face Detect and Eye Detect | Do you even need it ?”
and
“there is a point where we won't need any more, and I would say 20-24fps will be it, as that is about as fast as the human eye can see”
or
“ And really it is being driven by Sony to have a point of difference to sell their cameras to tech hungry people, and you and me and anybody else should be allowed to say, we prefer doing it however we want to.”
Finger on the pulse.
Hello Matt and friends, The Sony Global shutter is interesting. I just love the way Nikon and there Z series of cameras and lenses are going, I have a love for the way Hasselblad's X system is growing too. Just the way photography equipment is developing is so good. Some add thoughts how many photographers know what a Global shutter can offer. As you say so many people are just loving they're Z8 and Z9. Yes when these Global shutters are every were then people may see what they over. The Sony A9iii is not even out for 5 months. Matt this is a great chat, there is one more guest to this video who thought would have added a new dimension is if you could have managed to get Seth Miranda as well.
Hi John, I doubt that Seth would have been involved in this video as he works for Adorama and represents all the brands. As such, he is not likely to call into question aspects about one system or the other. Instead, he points out the good things about all the brands, and then just focuses on being a great photographer. I'm sure we could all learn a lot from him!
It is interesting to note however, that the cameras that he owns are all Nikons and a Fuji medium format - I guess it might be possible to read between the lines on this 😉
-PD
For motorsport 250 iso is restricting slow shutter speeds on a bright day, You will be shooting at f22 or f32 in order to be able to get a slow shutter speed of 1/60 sec, I have just seen shots from Mark Sutton a professional photographer at the Las Vegas GP. (Nikon user) taken at 1/20 sec, these are shots that would be difficult with a base 250 iso, and would put your lens in a range where diffraction is present. Not all sports require insanely high iso and shutter speeds at all times.
Hi Michael - this is yet another great example of how ISO 250 is restricting and further proof that this is still in the prototype stage - Beta at best. Still, that does not mean it is not a significant step forward, and at the very least a first step in the direction that all things are going. Kudos to Sony for that!
-PD
I enjoyed the discussion. The one topic I would like for you to discuss is about lens quality. Some people talk about the quality of Leica lenses being the best in the industry. Then there are the standard lenses built by the other camera manufactures. Then there are the other, non camera, lens makers of which Sigma Art Lenses are said to be of such high quality at a cheaper price. So what goes into a great lens? Which ones work best in extreme weather conditions?
Thanks for this video based on facts and available statistics rather than bashing and name-calling! I find it very intriguing that the long lead time of 7-9 months. It is as if to have the bragging rights that we are the first (in announcement) after receiving industry insights some other competitors is/are ahead in development, whichever brand it might be. If it's not Canon or Nikon, who else are the big player with deep pockets. Someone is not telling the truth!
Personally, I don't think the market would be big enough for the global shutter for the next 2-3 years, given not only the price range but the other limited resources like the storage requirement for 120 frames of RAW and the processing power for an event some press photographers attend. No way the editor would want to have that many RAWs to sift and process! Imagine the storage and bandwidth costs for the Olympics.
I doubt many would need 120 frames a second (including Z9/Z8), a want perhaps. 14-20 frames/sec is sufficient even for sports photography. Photographers have been getting history-making shots in past with much less. Spray and pray would have been for them in film days but it's taken a different meaning in the digital age!
BTW, could you or anyone tried taking shots of hummingbird hovering with the 120 frames a second? I do really want to see that in sequence.
Appreciate the fantastic video that spurs a broader discussion, albeit the toxicity in some comments.
The A9III is a true GAME CHANGER and to some how suggest otherwise is just adding spin. This conversation sounds a bit like this, "Ohh Sony's global shutter A9iii is good however this that and the third"" Sounds like SOME of what is being said here can be defined as sour grapes. Am I concerned Sony makes Nikon's chip, Yes I am and for obvious reasons. To many excuses being made here to justify the reliance on Sony here "about Sensor edges being made here there. ohh but wait this that" If the shoe was on the other foot with global shutter, you guys, including me would be dancing in the streets. We all should celebrate what this means for the industry and give Sony BIG credit for an amazing achievement.
A preliminary explanation of the limitations and advantages of flash photography with the Sony A9III: ruclips.net/video/YYDEZRb4gi0/видео.html
Hi Jess - in spite of all the seemingly bad blood here, and I regret some of the remarks I made in the comments the other day myself, I do want to thank you for linking this video of Manny Ortiz where he expresses his understandings and concerns about flash photography with respect to the new global shutter of the A9III. Manny is getting at what we were trying to get at in the video regarding the potential limitations of the global shutter syncing with various lights.
Manny calls it a "Flash Curve" the correct term that he is referring to is "Flash Duration" and it is measured in T5 and T1 times - the T5 time being the the time that the flash remains at 50% power or higher before tapering off below 50% and T1 is the amount of time that the flash remains above 10% of its power before tapering off.
The T1 time tends to be more important when considering stopping motion with a flash - because that is the time that it will illuminate the scene in any relevant way thus freezing (or failing to freeze motion).
The problem is that it takes very powerful, and very expensive lights, to create a flash duration fast enough to shine all the power of the flash inside the fast shutter window of the extended shutter speeds over 8000 that are provided by the global shutter. Manny mentions that the Godox made it to 1/26,000 of a second - and this is pretty good - far from 1/80,000 - but still much better than the current HSS limit of 1/8,000 of a second. That said, at what f/stop reading did the Godox achieve this? Said another way, on what setting was the light when it achieved this (full power, 1/2 power, 1/16th power)? My guess the light was a very low power to achieve this - probably at its lowest around 1/128 or 1/256- the more you lower the power of a light the faster the flash duration.
At the Sony event, they were letting photographers use a professional studio Pro Foto head that retails for near $20,000. The lights that 99% of strobe users will be using will be much less expensive and much weaker than the power pack provided by Sony meaning that taking advantage of the fast global shutter will be very limited in practical real world terms - especially when trying to overpower the sun, which is one of the main uses for HSS strobe photography now.
Therefore we have called into question in this video how relevant the fact that the shutter can sync at any speed is in real world terms. It seems to be a fair question - Manny Ortiz seems to think so!
I will admit that even syncing at 1/26,000 (let alone 1/80,000) excites me, but the reality is that the Godox that achieved this was probably set to minimum power - like 1/128 or 1/256 as mentioned before and that amount of power in the field outdoors in the day is largely irrelevant and useable
Sony mentions that their lights can sync up to 1/80,000 of a sec and that is AWESOME! I will give credit where it is due. However, speed lights are very weak - they are useful at event receptions and in very dark studios and controlled environs, but for outdoor daytime environmental portraiture they are virtually useless just like more powerful lights set at the lowest setting. To my knowledge Sony doesn't make any lights other than speed lights (please correct me if I am wrong).
This is why this global shutter may not be as exciting for strobe work as it initially seems.
I hope this helps you to understand where these comments were coming form and to understand they are based on real factual questions about the limitations of this system and not just a slam on Sony - Manny himself - who is a Sony guy (and I like him BTW) is making this same point in his own way in the video that you linked.
I would love for us (and the whole community) to be able to discuss this stuff rationally and without as much emotion - all the while keeping in mind that every knows and agrees that all the modern camera systems are objectively exceptional and we are all (whether we are Nikon, Canon or Sony people, or any other modern brand) just nitpicking when we point out a shortcoming of any particular system.
Thanks Jesse
-PD
@@photographydiscourse1185 It's perfectly ok, because photography, which is our great interest, can bring emotions into play, and a little later I can also sometimes see something I could have done differently.
I've seen somewhere that it should work best with Sony flash, and it's probably also some of the expensive flash Sony flash or maybe Pro Foto light it works with (probably doesn't apply to all light)?, but I also think more it is a camera for professionals who have the needs the camera can offer who buys it.
I can use globel shutter when there are advertising boards with lights along a riding track, but right now the camera is too expensive for me and my small business, but in time it will probably come to slightly cheaper cameras .....
@@photographydiscourse1185 The A9III is the first VF camera, with a shutter speed that is faster than the flash duration. So now you have to sync the flash to the shutter speed. Unfortunately, entry level flash can't do this yet. So you have figure out the max. speed by testing. What is very interesting , is using flashes with a very short recycle time, such as the Pro Foto and Broncolor to shoot eg. 30fps at a shutter speed that is lower than the flash duration.
The A9III is now shipping in Europe, well in advance to the prediction of you guys. Some smart photographer already show off some of the unique capabilities, well ahead of any currently existing camera.
We did not predict the launch date, Sony supplied the date range at their launch event. Sony then changed the date.
Indeed as I said in my first video on this subject, as well as in this video, global has its advantages. But global also has its disadvantages. In the areas of noise and DR. Which if you look at DP Review, Petapixel and others they have all found this to be the case. And of course there is a lot more to all of this.
@@MattIrwinPhotography yes, I am aware of these findings, but they seem to be more relevant to pixel peepers. I have now watched several videos, that show, these findings are far less of a problem. Here is a video, that shows the capabilities of the A9III even for wildlife photography, shooting swallows. These birds are extremely difficult to photograph in flight, as they are so fast.
ruclips.net/video/0MjX6B_bH58/видео.html
Personally, I would prefer to buy 1 Plena and an 85 1.2 with those $6k lol... or a Z8 and a Plena, or a Z8 and the 85 1.2 :)
Like I said on another channel (but they deleted my comment)... Someone wrote "Nikon is always playing catch up" So I replied:
"LOL... I prefer proven and well made cameras and tech by Nikon than to buy a first gen, unproven cameras/tech by Sony... Nikon will come out with their own version and will do it better like they always do." :)
This is undeniably the case. It stems from the very differnt design philosophies that the two compnaies have - both ultimately being important to the market of end users! :)
-PD
@@photographydiscourse1185 Thank you. Yeah, plus not everyone can or should buy every camera that comes out... Sony and Canon fanboys are just making Sony and Canon richer by buying every new camera they put out every 6 to 14 months lol.. I personally prefer how Nikon does things... I would hate to be in a system where everything is so hyped up that I feel that I have to update every time a new camera is released.
I love it, when a bunch of photographers with no sufficient engineering qualificatans talk about SONY's A9III. It sounds like the blind is leading the blind.
Suppose you stuck through all of it. Suppose you’ve seen what Dpreview has to say. Suppose you have caught up on Gerald Undone,s first assessments.
@@MattIrwinPhotography yes, I did.
Hmmm ok. So dpreview states m.dpreview.com/articles/6717086661/sony-a9-iii-image-quality-dynamic-range-analysis ‘Sony a9 III: Global shutter comes with an image quality cost’ What are you litigating Rene?
@@MattIrwinPhotography I like your photography, but when it comes to semiconductor engineering and manufacturing, all of you simply do not have the qualification. You are just photographers, using cameras of various brands for several years and bitching about SONY and it's global shutter. None of you have ever worked in Engineering on a complex product, such as any modern camera, be it from Nikon, SONY, Canon etc... , but telling clueless listeners, how Nikon really designed their own sensors in the Z8/Z9 and using Sony Semiconductor just as a fab. Baron calling the A9III a prototype makes every serious engineer just laugh. Just stick to photography.
It's funny Rene, you are 'playing the man' and not providing any evidence of your statement. I am all ears if you can actually point me to data other than the Sony users who echo the same sentiment, 'Sony OWNS Nikon because they releases the sensors to Nikon when they feel like it'. Please steer us to an official source which verifies this claim, and then like with all could reportage, find two more sources to confirm. @@renestaempfli1071
FOMO haha
Very fun to watch the fear and envy on display by Mat Irwin and company. The half truths and decit in this presentation could only survive within a panel of sycophants such as this.
Go ahead love Nikon and hate Sony. That is fine. But a bit of honesty would play much better.
LOL zero envy here. I have all the camera I will ever need today, now, for less. Oh please with the half truths. Tell us which bits you think they are, and we can talk it through, but right now you make a claim and provide zero reference to substantiate, laughable.
It seems that you did not watch the video, or if you did only short and very select moments - Your comment is laughable literally. What are the half truths? Where is the deceit? Nobody hates Sony - to the contrary Matt and Frames both own and use Sony's. I don't own one because I choose not to - I could buy any Sony on the market and would if I thought it was somehow better for my use cases- when I have used them myself I found they were not, but this does not mean I don't think they are good and I express that clearly in the video that you obviously did not watch.
Come back when you have a thought out opinion based on some facts - then we'd love to have a discourse with you and not this silly name calling.
-PD
Take some time to watch the complete video with an open mind. There was no Sony bashing going on. What do you believe is a half truth or deceit? Share your thought on those points instead of name calling. You have an opportunity to offer you points much like the folks on the panel, Matt and Frames both own and use Sony, as do I and many others that watch and participate on this channel.
It’s ok to not share others opinion however, the name calling is not necessary and if you feel that is the best way to get your point across, then you have lost your credibility in your argument.
Well, there is definitely half truths, when it comes to sensor design. Photographers with no engineering qualifications are trying to explain, how sensors are designed by Nikon. There was defiantly a belittling undertone towards SONY.
@@renestaempfli1071 Rene, there is a long held assumption largely by Sony users, that Sony controls Nikons destiny because it owns, designs and makes all the tech within Nikon sensors and releases it to Nikon as it sees fit. None of this is true. I have been researching this subject specifically for over a year and will have a video in the coming months addressing it.
The fact that you guys felt the need to make this video says all that needs to be said. Sad....
says all that needs to be said about the Sony RUclips narrative manufacturing system 😵💫
LOL Steve, nah it ain't that easy, you need to back that up, otherwise you are not interested in anything other than the Sony echo chamber, what have you got for us? :)
Sorry Mat, but I am not willing to invest the effort. One has to feel inferior and threatened to invest that much effort into such a thing. I won't spend my time attacking or protecting any brand. Your envy and insecurity on this subject is clearly in evidence in the video. The rest of the World is celebrating the potential of the Global Sensor advancement. Who made it happen is only a subject of the isecure.
You know I often watch your channel. I enjoy it most times. I rarely comment. This time the envy and fear was so evident that I found it very sad on your behalf. You pain came across clearly. So, I took a quick moment to comment. I hope you eventually find peace in your enjoyment of photography. This brand stuff is has not been healthy for you. It is unnecessary you know. @@MattIrwinPhotography
Please Steve - you are welcome to add to the discourse if you have anything (anything at all) relevant to say. If you are just a troll then what is sad is you - someone with no real opinion - just emotional knee jerk reactions - also - nobody is forcing you to watch this channel. You are currently the joke my friend. If you want to engage in some actual discourse and bring your thought out point to the table - we would all be happy to listen and have a intelligent discussion - until then - go stroke your ego on your own time.
-PD
Hi Steve, wow I mean, we cant even discuss this without you reacting in an insecure way. You are projecting how you feel. I have zero envy for the A9III, I bought a Hasselblad that shoots 1.5 FPS, I am sorry you are talking to the wrong guy. You just could not be more incorrect. I have in a Z8 more than I will ever need. A fabulous mix of everything. High speed is something I am simply not interested in. Your comments are beyond wrong regarding my feelings for the A9 III. This video exists not because how I feel about the A9 III, but more because of how you feel about the A9 III, have a think about that.
And when you say
' I won't spend my time attacking or protecting any brand. '
But you have made two different sets of comments here for exactly that reason, why are you contradicting yourself in your own comment. You have commented in a negative way on this video in order to bring it into disrepute, in the hope people wont take it seriously in order to protect the brand ... weird, you already did, what you said you don't want to do ......
I'm very tired of all this negative talk about Sony creeping in between (envy) in your videos, if it had been Nikon who had been first with the Globel Shutter sp you wouldn't have been negative at all, correct?
It also doesn't matter what Sony's history is, what counts is what they bring now, because if you want history, buy a Leica!
If you can't see it yourself that's just sad, and when Nikon gets a sensor with Glovel Shutter I bet you'll be praising it to the skies!
What exact point was negative? That he didn't fall head over heels in praising Sony? That's negative? 24mp, 250 base ISO, USD 6000... I mean how is it practical? Anyone who says A9III make flash sync speed irrelevant just doesn't know how actual flash systems work in the real world. Show me how you can use 100% flash power at 1/8000th of a second on the A9iii. If you cannot, matter closed.
I have zero envy for the A9 III Jess. Zero. For you to suggest otherwise shows you are happy to make things up. I don't even want 20FPS. 45MP with good low native ISO, 8K internal video, fantastic ergonomics, built for the long haul, long battery life, class leading optics, these are the things I want.
Absolutely not! Nikon got bashed for half a decade on AF. Meanwhile Fuji had no problem. Let me tell you, Fuji sucks for the last half decade in AF. Their lenses have bad motors. Where's the rage on Fuji? Sony colors are crap. If colors don't matter then go buy Leica monochrome. Fixing colors, takes away so much of the RAW file bandwidth. It matters. Where's the rage? For every problem on lenses, Sony crops in and degrades the footage. Breathing? Let's crop. Bad IBIS? Let's crop. Where's the rage? Flimsy bodies! No problem Where's the red hot rage man? There's no 85 1.4 updated on Sony. Everyone uses Sigma. Where's the rage? A7CR, a 3000+ USD camera had 1/4000th shutter. Where's the rage? Every Sony camera lies about IBIS. If they have 8 stop IBIS then Canon has 20 stop IBIS and Panasonic has 50 stop IBIS. Where's the rage about lying? Come one now
Sure - that is a point of view - I am sorry that this video has upset you - it shouldn't. Everyone has a right to their opinion. In this case, ours are based on the available facts. When the A9 III comes out and the DR is tested - if it is really at 14+ stops, I will be the first to say - wow that is amazing - Sony has really done something here, but if it is at 12-13 stops as its ISO suggests then I will say - hey this is great for what it is, but it is not a great portrait/landscape/architecture camera which would be true in that case. It is also not optimal for wildlife as it lacks deep crop-ability - just facts - no hate.
But if Nikon had released a global shutter it would have been a more finished product. If it were in the state that the A9 III is then it would have been sold as a sports camera and not have tried to masquerade as a 'great' portrait camera. And ALL the Sony people would say how bad it is because of its 250 ISO lol.
Lets be real, the base ISO of 250 is not good - and Sony knows it - this is why it was NOT in their presentation and all the YT people at the event all 'found out' after the presentation when they were playing with it. Sony didn't forget this point in the presentation - it was omitted intentionally - this can only mean that it is a weakness.
Also, this is one of the longest lead times ever by Sony between announcing a camera and releasing it - more like a development announcement - feels like it was rushed to get out the door and that is the rumors that I have heard (rumors that happen to be supported by evidence). I think big things must be on the horizon from Canon and Nikon and Sony wanted to get the jump - and good for them! Sincerely.
As we mention in this video, Sony plays an important role in the modern camera industry - they are not the end all be all of hybrid cameras, but they are a leader when it comes to being a first adopter of newer tech and that is needed. Nikon is more of the company that will only use the tech once it is perfected and will not fail in the field. These are different design philosophies and both have a place.
As I said in the video, I am happy that Sony is around pushing the new tech - it forces the industry to hunker down and perfect these things - then in a generation (camera generation) or two there is a decent fully developed product.
-PD
@@photographydiscourse1185 Baron, I had the same thought as you when I heard the release date, someone else has something in the works and Sony wanted to to have that "world's first" title.
Fanboy shitting on another brand , this is everything wrong with this platform
It's funny, litigate something, collect the evidence and present, Fanboy is so throwaway, and its funny, we back our statements, you don't bother to back yourself.
You obviously did not watch the video lol. If you did, please had your opinion in a sensible way by adding to the discourse. What you have done is pretty weak - making an unsupported statement with a kind of 'mic drop'. You have made no good points, nor have you added to the conversation. its seems like you are just a troll. If you have an opinion based on facts and evidence please share it, and it will be considered - as it stands who would listen to you or care what you think? Seriously - just sad lol
-PD
Longrider! Come on! When did you get to complaint like this about Matt ever? And I don't think we were sh^ting on Sony. We contextualised. That's all we did. Provided context.
@@FramesTMframes always liked you and enjoy some of your storytelling videos, but this over emotional driven nonsense hurts all including you. In his opening monologue, he basically says Sony hasn't contributed anything. They stood on someone else's shoulders. What a crock of s***. Then he compares a red Komodo which is not even a full-frame camera and doesn't have half the features including top shelf, auto focus that you get with a camera like the A9. Then he throws out the fanboy nonsense by asking his cute little questions, like do Sony's fail in the field you know who fails in the field he does. I haven't seen one piece of work from him that impressed me. And he's got a giant hang up about Nikon using Sony sensors. Why so what they use Sony sensors and you know why they use them because they're the best sensors on the market for cameras. But he wants to spin it that they're not even in the top 10 of them manufacturers. I'm sorry you don't see it, but you want to talk about perspective. How about some perspective when you're talking about Nikon gear? The gear you know about to give you use to give you spend your money on. Give me perspective on that. I use Sony gear. Never have a problem but you know what I could tell you 10 things I don't like about them. Can you tell me 10 things you don't like about Nikon? You probably could but Matt won't because he's a fanboy and he doesn't know half of the innovations that have been made. Go read about lens manufacturing and what Sony did to change the game. I'm not saying they're the best and you should use them. Use what you feel comfortable with. Sorry frames my friend, but this is a love fest, not an analytical objective analysis which I don't think he is capable of.
Sorry long rider, you never got to the conclusions. To see how we agree all three companies innovate in their own ways, and they are all standing on the shoulders of each other. I did not bring up gear failure, that was Baron. I clearly highlighted exactly what the Komodo was with a RED box, I was not trying to hide anything. Go back and collect the facts on the screen. I said they were not the first to create global. You can conflate what you want from there Longrider, but it would make you inaccurate, and not representative of what I said and illustrated. I am happy you don't like my work. I have sold my work for 34 years, and paid my mortgage with it. Respectfully I don't need your support in this area, and having run my own galleries, selling my own work, with people walking into the that space, and telling me point blank face to face what they think, some anonymous person, who is interested in distorting the facts we laid out is of no interest to me, because yet again, you lower yourself to playing than man, as you aways do. It easy, when you publish nothing, and hide your identity. My work has nothing to do with this discussion, like it or not. But hey good on you for going there, reveals who you are.
And I suspect you are trying to draw a comparison to my relative value in this space to comment vs your perceived value of my work. So based on that same notion, let's take a look at some of your work?
Longrider, we state in this video, all cameras a fantastic today. This is true. 100% Yet I am also happy to agree, all cameras are not prefect. This is also true. There has been a lot of noise about A9 III, and now that dust settles, it is completely within the realms of normality, that we have a conversation of the realities of what has just come out of the Sony marketing machine. It is clear you don't like it.
As for Nikon gear, my mantra on this channel has always been USE CASE. And as a professional photographer, my mantra in that space is get the job done, give the client what they want. Tell me what part of my Z8 does not allow me to get the job done? And I am happy to chat with you about it, and make a video about it. You can even join me on zoom, if you want.
As for this discussion, it was not about getting the job done, this conversation was about the birth of global. And it is ok, for this channel to talk about taking photographs. And also to talk about how technology gets created, to talk history.
Longrider, again go back and watch it. The top 10 comment, is about semiconductor manufacturing. Sony are not in the top 10 size wise. Again look at the slide provided. All this means is there are other companies which sell more semiconductors than Sony. It is simply a fact. The leader by a long measure IS TSMC, who make the class leading 3nm tech found in Apple M3 chips. This is all just industry info. This tech makes, sensors, RAM, CPU's, and every other piece of silicon we find. The point of talking about this is allowing the audience to understand, when it comes to making silicon, Sony are not number 1, and guess what neither are Nikon, and Nikon would be below Sony, if they do it, which we don't know.
But Sony not being the largest has multitudinous trickle down effects.
Here is the link to the site I referenced, www.blackridgeresearch.com/blog/list-of-global-top-largest-semiconductor-companies-manufacturers-makers-suppliers-in-the-world , if you google you will find more similar supporting information.
Sony innovate, but so do everybody else. And a lot of what goes on we don't know about, but Sony are not the 'One and Only' when it comes to bringing what we know as cameras in 2023, and it is ok to have a conversation about that. Global is exciting, it has been coming a very long time, and Sony Canon Nikon will all bring their product to market, and they will all be a little different. And when they arrive we will talk more about it. Let's start on that list of 10 things.
I bought a Sony A7 when it first came out to use next to my regular DSLR camera bodies.
But it was unreliable and eventually died just out of warranty - now its a paperweight... 🦘