What I like about the episode and about Billups as a potential ace character is characters like this usually go two ways, either they're too frigid and logical to truly understand love or they're the sexually repressed nerd (or both, thanks Sherlock), and Billups averted both those tropes. No one demeans him for being a virgin or implies there's something wrong with him for not liking sex, and considering how stories like this usually go, that's a breath of fresh air.
I'm nearly a year late, but I'm catching up now and I enjoyed this too. Especially enjoyed at the end when he was back in engineering and proclaimed that he kept his virginity and the crew cheered for him. That's a wonderful support system! Made my asexual heart happy to see
Mariner is interesting in that her behavior almost seems compulsive at times. She clearly cares deeply for Boimler and seems to genuinely hate being apart from him and yet she is unable to put her feelings into words, often lying about said feelings and often treats Boimler really badly. Its like she cant help herself. It also makes me think of her self sabotage of her own career. Its easy to wonder if something from her past has made her like this .
Yeah, she’s definitely insecurely attached. I think Starfleet basically just traumatised her good but bc she was a starship brat she never knew anything else so just stays in.
In episode 3 of season 2, Mariner tells Tendi that whenever she reveals herself her friends always get promoted and leave her (which was kinda hinted at in s1e7 with Ramsey so hopefully we get some lore on that.) I think that she makes Boimler dependent on her because she's afraid that if he becomes independent he'll take off to another ship- which did occur and we can see that Mariner held a grudge against him for it. My prediction is that Boimler is going to get reminded of Mariner taking him off the op, so he does some research on Mariner. This leads to some lore where she tries to ask out Ramsey, but is rejected, thus giving her abandonment issues. Then B plot ensues, Mariner finds out that Boimler knows, add a heartfelt moment where they promise to stay together, and then everyone goes home happy.
She served during the Dominion War and also saw her friend eaten by an alien who was masquerading as another friend. She’s got pretty bad ptsd which we see in multiple episodes.
It was such a delight to see Jeffrey Combs doing a Lower Decks role, and ontop of that a nearly cosmic horror role at that. Star Trek and cosmic horror: the two things Jeff does best.
The episode really needed about a 10 second exchange of Mariner apologizing for what she did and promising to do better, and Boimler responding with something to the effect of "nah don't worry about it; this'll look great in my review, too," and maybe a gag where Boimler reprograms the replicator to make all Mariner's requests taste like black licorice. After all, "outsmarting an evil computer" probably checks off an important box before someone can become a captain in Starfleet.
Regarding the lack of Mariner comeuppance: what I thought was missing was Boimler accusing her of acting just like her mother, whom we've also seen be smothering and micro-managing. /That/ would have been a way for Mariner to get some character growth, along with Boimler. But as you said, maybe they'll address this later!
Gotta love that everyone's full first name is quite odd - Bradward, Samanthan, Andriarche... I'm expecting Ransom to be Jackalanthion or something at this point... Also loved the black liquorice running gag, how shit AGIMUS' attempts to manipulate Boimler and Mainer were, and Mariner calling Boimler's time on the Titan his study abroad made me laugh more than it should.
@@jolan_tru Her parents were really into human culture, clearly. I think it stands to reason that after 200-odd years of the Federation there'd be some level of cultural crossover, like how I'm Irish with an Irish name but my wife's name comes from Latin.
The Black Licorice gag reminded me of a very similar joke from Duck Tales with Della Duck on the moon with all the life sustaining gum being black licorice flavored.
This is my favorite Lower Decks episode thus far. As someone who grew up in a family of "Ren Faire people," this episode had a direct line to my funny bone in a way few things do. Absolute magic. And black licorice is one of my favorite things, so I'd be totally ok on that planet.
One thing that was Neat about the Bilips Story, is that every time he Proudly Exclaimed that he was still a Virgin, his Engineering Crew all Cheered Him on in the most wholesome way... Like they weren't doing the "Bro-Dude" thing that is to Snicker or Demean him for it, they Just Genuinely Cheered for em. I should also note that I was also Slightly Bothered by How Mariner Acted, but it didn't seem quite that bad to be. Mostly because I saw what she did as basically her just trying to keep her best friend near her, she just wanted him to be on the same mission as her. That and She wasn't REALLY trying to stifle his career, it's more like she wanted to make sure he never got in over his head too quick, Kinda Like a doting parent. She wants him to succeed, but she also doesn't want him to Be shoved into something that's too much to handle too quickly simply because he tried too hard to get those promotions too fast... It's a Legit Concern for her to have, and we all know that Boymler would Completely ignore her if she brought it up to him to his face, and based off past Evidence, he'd then Inevitably get himself into more than he can Handle just to try and Prove her Wrong, Which in the process would only prove her right... So all in all, Going behind his Back to get the goal done, Not Cool, But I get it, it's not coming from a place of "I Refuse to Let you Live up to your Potential! I will Keep you here in the Lower decks forever if I have my say!!! BUAHAHAHAHA!!!"... You know?
How did I miss that the queen was basically Lwaxana? Here, I saw the two major plots as being TOS references, with Billups' people being a reference to the parallel Earths and the evil computer being like "A Taste of Armageddon." Also, Billups is ace. I'm trying to think if Trek has had a character as explicitly ace before.
i don't disagree with you on Mariners behavior, but i kinda see Boimler not involving her in the deception as him getting back at her for the whole thing
That was my reading as well. He's like "yeah, I get it, you have abandonment issues, but I shot you and kept you in the dark so we're good now." I think it's building to a point where he's mentoring her and helping her rank up, and this was an important turning point in that relationship. I think that her sabotage will have ramifications, but less so from Brad and more with making Mariner realize she's a pretty shitty friend a lot of the time.
I really liked the ace representation with Billups too. I myself am not asexual, but my partner is. As an autistic person, one of my hyper-fixations in recent years has been studying and learning all about human sexuality, so I'm grateful I already had the knowledge of asexuality to help my partner cope when she figured it out. Things like, it's yet another perfectly normal form of human sexuality, you're not broken or damaged, and we still have such incredible intimacy together in a non-sexual way (Naked cuddling while watching our favourite geeky shows for example). It was a no-brainer for me to make the decision to stay with her when she figured it out and came out to me :)
Can we just note Jessie's knack for clever use of sound effects, especially in a comedic fashion? No other youtuber has yet made me chuckle or outright laugh just with the right sound effect at the right moment more than once, and Jessie is already establishing a goddamned *pattern* of doing so in several videos! It's a very neat filmmaking skill!
Boimler is such a great character right now. He's getting more and more great moments and the evil computer made me laugh every time he spoke. He was just so obvious and trying so hard I loved it And as an ace person who's felt a lot of pressure to have sex, I do relate to Billups being so done with his home culture, just trying to ignore and move past it. By concept alone, the plot was a little uncomfortable, but I think they did it pretty much as well as they could. Mostly because Billups wasn't framed as being sad for being a virgin and the crew wholeheartedly supported him with his decisions. It helped that it came across as something he wasn't really missing out on or even that rough a decision. It's just not what he's into. He's into engineering and 100% happy with that. I can see him being both ace or allo but with other priorities, which is always fun to headcanon Going back to the other plot, I get the feeling the last few episodes are building up to a point where Mariner has to confront herself again, like the later season 1 episodes. She is too controlling of Boimler right now, and I don't think she's even recognising it. It's definitely a massive issue in their friendship and I hope it gets resolved without him having to suffer too much more (Also as an artist, the colour design and backgrounds in this episodes were *gorgeous*. Both Billup's home ship and the planet Mariner and Boimler were stranded on were one of the first times I've watched this show and really thought it looked great)
Billups seems ace, sure, but can we also talk about how Tendi feels like a demisexual/demiromantic person who has absolutely NO clue how to handle being attracted to someone? Like, I can't be the only one who reads her that way, right?
I also think it's a joke on the fact that in the middle ages, which their culture is based on, that kind of shit was held up as a good thing. There are whole royal lines whose entire jobs were as marriage fodder to gain alliances.
I love how they handled Billups. As a person who, at 42, has been questioning if I am asexual (it would explain a lot). I like how this was handled. Billips not being all that phased by giving up sex as if he could take it or leave it felt really nice to me. And no one on the ship really shamed him for his lack of interest in sex at all which I loved. In fact, the people pushing him into a sexual situation he didn't want to have are seen as the negative characters here. I loved that!!!
Hey now jessie, I came here for a star trek review and here you are nearly making my warp core go critical in the opening seconds with that jargon. Please jessie! This is a family channel! Presumably.
My Thursday morning alarm has gone off - my Jessie LD Review is now locked and loaded and ready to watch… Now that I’m a 52 year old forced into ‘retirement’ because of a serious health issue - I’m Going to go make some coffee and kick back and enjoy my Jessie - Thanks again for the Thursday Morning Review Jessie!
I really liked the Evil Combsputer, but the big "Raiders Of The Lost Ark" vault at the Daystrom Institute at the end seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
I think two episodes ago, Mariner described her feelings for Brad as "like for a pet". From that frame of reference, I can see why she struggles to see him grow...
Now we know that on the bottom on the soles of regulation boots has the Starfleet logo stamped on them, a neat bit of lore. It's little details like this that make this show truly remarkable.
This episode made me doubt my confidence in my read that Mariner's black ops rumors are just rumors. Darn it, evil computer, you drew me in! Also, definitely glad to see Combs get another character on his list.
As an Ace person, the scene with Billups in the bathroom.... hit a little too close to home that I didn't register it as a joke on the first go through, especially where he's trying to, uh, "encourage" himself to follow through. Watching it again, I still don't really take it as a "joke" at Billups expense, but I can see how it might read that way.
There's a lot of talk about Billups being asexual. Maybe. But, I am not. And, I was very much like him when I was a virgin. There's no reason to assume that all men are waiting to pounce. I actually see Rutherford as more asexual. Billups vocally laments his choice but says it's necessary. Meanwhile, Rutherford likes comradery, companionship, and a touch of romance, but doesn't seem at all interested in sex (and talks about the warp core with far more passion than a date).
@@jp12x I agree with this, about Rutherford. Like he’s ace but not aro maybe. I think Billups just came from a stifling sexual culture and hated it, and thus has never really processed what his actual relationship to sexuality even is. Especially because he feels he hasn’t truly escaped that culture either, he still feels beholden to their rules.
@@kaitlyn__L Billups' situation is fairly straightforward. By Hysperian law he must become King upon losing virginity, so his only choice to live the way he wants is to be celibate. A part of him wants to experience it. But that means giving up what he truly wants. His decision is one of pure selfishness, choosing the truth that benefited him. And he's proud of it. He'll happily accept being a virgin so he can choose what he wants to do.
I loved loved loved this episode. Their episode was not only strong, but one of the best balances of story and humor that they have done to date. Also, that ship was beyootiful! I want one! Also also, Jessie, your review is always our immediate followup to watching Lower Decks it's suck lovely icing on the cake. 🍰
I think that, given the fact that Billup's homeworld is based on medieval-ish values, it makes it more understandable that its monarchy would press their young into having sex to keep the bloodline and the throne continuity despite their sexual orientation (or lack of). Actual medieval times were probably not as kind nor funny for those who didn't want to comply. Also, it is interesting that you mention that he loves engineering as much as other people love sex. It reminded me the infamous holo-Leah Brahms incident Georgi (being another engineer!) had when "Leah" said that every time he touched the engine he'd be touching her. Not that Billups has some kind of warp engine fetish but your comment certainly reminded me of that scene. Greetings from Costa Rica.
I didn't really interpret the end of Tendy and Rutherford's storyline as a romantic thing at all; to me it really seemed like it was more about Tendy having still never really dealt with the trauma of losing Rutherford last season and hadn't really realised it until he almost died again.
This is true. They have a clear attraction, but it seems based on things that are not romantic. The potential for romance is pretty clear, but Rutherford is kind of "soft" about a lot of things. I'm not sure if he's asexual or just doesn't express himself.
@@jp12x Rutherford was all into dating Barnes and in all honesty might still be dating her but just not mentioning it when Tendi is around. Tendi may not have much experience with healthy romantic relationships since her time as an Orion pirate dosen't seem to have provided much in the way of good examples for that kind of thing.
At this point it could honestly go either way. If they were both men or both women, Straight(TM) people would say, "They're obviously good friends. Not everything has to be romantic." (Btw I am straight but I'd like to think I'm not Straight(TM).) Personally, I like Tendi & Rutherford platonically but I also like Tendi/Rutherford romantically.
The relationship between Rutherford and Tendy is not a will they won't they proposition. I think the show is building up to make them a couple. What we're seeing right now is the journey, but it's the ultimate destination. Also, on the issue of Mariner's actions, I can kind of see things from her perspective. While she has seen some of Boimler's growth as an officer, he still shows tendencies to backslide from time to time, so I can see her making the assessment that he's not ready. Where I think she slips is that she's not his commanding officer and it's not her place to make that decision. Also, I am of the belief that Boimler got promoted before he was ready. He did experience growth while on the Titan, because I can't see season one Boimler being able to trick the evil AI like season two Boimler did, but overall, I do think he still needs some polishing before being promoted to higher rank.
I think we’ll see William Boimler show up as a full lieutenant in the finale… to make Brad feel even worse about that (he risked his life to save everyone, got into a transporter accident, and then was _demoted for it!_ While Will Boimler reaped all the rewards!)
I also wanted more of a resolution and would have preferred a talk over an evil computer joke, but I don't think Mariner thought Boimler was getting too good for her. I thought she was specifically underestimating Boimler, as evidenced by her saying "if you survived" under her breath, and constantly expecting him to mess up. I think the quick forgiveness at the end was because Boimler had his mic drop "look what I just pulled off" moment. He had just proven himself capable. I think there might be something to Mariner WANTING Boimler to need her, and her being in denial about it, but everything in this episode is consistent with her underestimating him. It's also consistent with the look on her face in the previous episode during Boimler saving Tendi. Whereas Rutherford looked happy and confident in Boimler, Mariner continued to look worried and upset. I don't think she had confidence in him then, and she didn't have confidence in him this episode.
Another episode I really liked a lot! Both of the plots were very well done. It was interesting that we got Billup's backstory. I agree about Mariner. Her jealousy and insecurity directed at Boimler was way over the top. It was true to her character, but I wish Boimler had called her out on it.
best line of the episode "my scans indicate you could lose a couple of pounds" OUCH! oh and about your issues with Mariner, i completely agree, though i love the character, her sabotaging boimlers choices aren't addressed. it's mean and selfish and the series kinda lets her get away with these selfish choices without any type of repurcussions.
It depends on whether you think Boimler had a plan from the start. I feel he figured it out after he shot Mariner, which would make her right. But, she believes him when he said he had a plan. So, maybe she recognizes she was wrong too.
Even if in a community, I don’t think anyone can perfectly represent a community. They can provide their opinion, and it can be observed how common that opinion is among others in their community, but one can ultimately only speak for themselves. Granted, this doesn’t mean issues can’t be pointed out and explained, and odds can be in favor of offense for people with shared traits. I mostly think the grouping, however well meaning, can itself be problematic.
I think you can read Boimler 2 different ways at the end of the episode. 1 He may have had a plan and been unable to communicate it as Coombs was omni present. OR 2 Boimler was genuinely tricked and figured it out by the end but it's not clear just when. In the first, Mariner is wrong and Boimler is ready. In the second, Boimler is NOT ready and Mariner is completely right. I find Mariner's hesitation fine for multiple reasons. She knows Boimler has grown but also knows he is overconfident and naïve. Even if you think Boimler had a plan from the start and couldn't communicate it directly, he should have been able to communicate it indirectly. How about "Mariner! This is just like you rewriting my holodeck program! I'm not going to let you strand us here!" Mariner is quick enough to know when something doesn't make sense and should be curious enough to trust him, Anyway, I did not have the same problems with the Coombs plot. The Billups plot wasn't deep, and I called it, but it was still entertaining. I didn't read Billups as asexual at all. He's a nervous virgin. To suggest he's asexual due to nerves is to suggest that it is "normal" to jump straight into sex at any opportunity. Remember the royal guard skips foreplay: not a great trait for virgins... Also, Billups literally says he gas sworn off sex in order to be in Starfleet. If he didn't care about sex, he wouldn't call it a sacrifice. If you really want to see an asexual, look to Rutherford. He's not aromantic but has so far been presented as asexual.
Mariner is a control freak. It's her defining trait. Everything must be measured against her personal standards, and everything else is immaterial. A lot of characters in fiction have this flaw, and writers confuse that with a forceful personality. Here's hoping that the LD writers recognize this (they seem to) and show her growing out of this hut. That would be a good series finale, as it would mean she'd be ready for a promotion to lieutenant - or higher. Sidenote: she seems to be competent enough for a lieutenant commander commission. It's her psychological drawbacks that keep her from advancing through the ranks - and being happy with it.
And about Billups and his backstory...it was crazy, but amazingly so. I mean, who among us ever loved something so much that we'd stay a virgin forever for it? There was a whole thing about the ensigns loving the warp core last season, but let's face it...Billups REALLY loves the warp core. Would Scotty have ever been an engineer if he'd had to give up whisky?
Billups' mom doesn't deserve to polish Lwaxana's boots. Lwaxana cares about Deanna, and has a deep inner life. Billups ' mom just... sucks and is selfish. Lwaxana Troi FTW!
So I'm ace and certainly read Billup's in that way but he's interesting as a source of representation. The fact that it's not explicit makes it difficult to even call it that for sure and it's hard to tell if it's even intentional or not. It could be read as just a funny joke because a lot of people would laugh at the concept of a man not wanting to have sex. I do think it's important though that the characters in universe don't treat it like a joke, everyone respects that he doesn't want that and they even cheer for him at the end when he says he'll be a virgin forever. So even if it flies over most of the audiences heads it still does put forth the idea that this is a valid way to be to anyone looking for it. I do hope that they eventually make it explicit if that was the intention because otherwise it could be read as just another joke. But for now, I did enjoy the episode and I like what they've done with Billups so far, it is nice to see a character who is not interested in sex and appears to be a perfectly well adjusted and happy person because that's pretty rare.
Billups' story was at once exciting because it had so much that was relatable to an ace (which I myself am), particularly the attempt of others to virgin shame him, his desire to invest his time & passion into what actually interests him & his exasperation with everyone else's obsession with his virginity. I also really loved that he felt no embarrassment about himself & openly explained the situation and that his friends & colleagues were completely in his corner. That was awesome. However my big criticism is that the story seemed to imply that Billups was choosing to remain celibate, which is choosing not to have sex rather than simply feeling no urge for it. If Billups is officially asexual in cannon I really hope that they go back to make that distinction clear, because as it stands it looks like he's choosing to not have sex to remain in Star Fleet rather than just not being interested in it
I think both can exist; Billups does deliberately chose to be celibate but he doesn't seem distress by it. I think it's a case of rebellion without thinking if he actually wants to have it at all. He's not thinking about his own desires (it doesn't seem it even accure to him) but rather not having sex in opposition to someone/something (his mother) and when confronted with the chance to have sex, it seemed to gross him out. Either that, or I'm giving the show a pass because I was pleasantly surprised by this development and I don't want it ripped away from me yet so I feel the need not to see its flaws. Possibly both.
I could also just see him lack the language for it. Like, his mom definitely wouldn't have allowed him to know what asexuality is, and the people in star fleet might be past it as a concept? Like, not wanting Sex, or only wanting it with a select few people you find attractive, or anything else on the ace spectrum, is so accepted that there's no need for the term anymore
The site I watch Lower Decks on usually doesn't get the episode until Thursday evening/next day, so I'm always just listening to your reviews in the tiniest chunks until I can watch the episode 😭
Also, I know Mariner's fantasy is to be carried bridal style to her own private cabin on the Cerritos. Insert a long line outside of said cabin of beefy tall girls, boys and lovely enbis taking a number to do just that. Wow. my imagination is running wild today. No sleep will do that to ya! :D
Re Marinar plot - I think her whole career/life kinda calls her out .. she clearly should be further in her life but seems stuck, and the fact it fits within her character to behave this way says why. While Boimler doesn’t directly call her out, her failure here (and in other episodes) does to us as the viewer. I feel that sometimes the best way to change a problematic behavior is to show how it fails vs direct confrontation. Let her come to the realization and i believe it works better (tho maybe not as satisfying as a ‘comeuppance’). I believe we are leading up to a reversal of the mentor relationship as Boimler grows and becomes the one who ends up being a mentor of sorts to Mariner as an example who pulls her forward despite the flaws that held her back before
I hope they end up dealing with Mariner's jealousy soon, it's getting a bit annoying, to be honest. It's a bit like how I felt about Tom Paris being a massive prick in order to infiltrate the Kazon, but even that didn't have Tom being a massive prick to Harry. Even though I expect they'll have an entire episode dealing with her issues I think they definitely should have had Boimler confront Mariner about her assholishness at least a little in this episode. Also, yeah, without the purple collar, it feels more like this should be Jessie After Dark. Star Trek: Nights.
1. If you remember Mariner has sabotaged Boimler in the past, she took it on herself to be suspicious about his relationship with Barbra Brinson. This isn’t new behavior from her and it strikes me as her not having healthy boundaries between here work and professional lives. Maybe she should spend some time in Miglemoo’s office about that. 2. I feel like they wrote themselves into a corner with Boimler and Mariner, the only way they had out was to make Boimler planning it all along. That said it was a fun way to raise tensions and welcome back Jefferey Coombs. 3. I fell like the joke about the king of the Ren Fair planet being the guy who had sex is a way to lovingly poke fun at people who enjoy creative anachronisms. But it also gave them the opportunity to dial the Lawxana parody up to 11. Granted as her character progressed they developed her as more than a 1 dimensional manipulator of harassing her daughter about being unwed and pursuing Picard/Odo. I’m unsure if I want to see more from the Queen. 4. I feel like it’s a bit of a leap to call Billups A. It feels more like he’s trying to avoid sex not out of a lack of desire but more out of an obligation. I don’t mind if they open the door to that development in his character but I hope they take it easy. Otherwise, I feel like that’s the kind of thing where there’s a risk of Flanderization and suddenly every joke is about Billups revolves around the fact that he hasn’t been sexual yet.
A great review. And this was a great episode. The Weyoun computer (that's what I'm calling it) was a great parody of evil computers, and the one line that made me actually laugh out loud was when he said "I will blind you!" and did his dimmer-switch thing. That was the best line of the episode. I think the Chief Engineer not having sex is a poke at all the frustrated comments LeVar BurTon has made about GeOrdi never having sex. There may be other overtones, but I'm betting it was Geordi's lack of a love life that inspired this bit. As to Mariner being in the wrong here. . . well, that was sort of the point of the episode. She drew a little heart around "Mariner + Boimler" in the dive bar, so I suspect her need to have Boimler around is deeper than even she realizes. Similar to how most of the time when Riker turned down a promotion, it was strongly hinted that it was Deanna that he didn't want to leave, not the Enterprise in total. I think the reason the episode didn't 'punish' her (or rather the reason Boimler didn't call her out more) is because . . . the real punishment is that Boimler just isn't that into her, either as a friend or as a lover. Well, no more or less than he is into Tendi, or Rutherford. He's always willing to go hang out or date a random red shirt. I don't know if this is deliberate or not, but in both pairings, this episode showed Tendi having strong feelings about Rutherford and Mariner having strong feelings about Boimler (regardless of whether either pair is sexual or platonic, the feelings are strong) and it showed both Boimler and Rutherford as being emotionally clueless or indifferent guys. Well, at least Rutherford was nice about it. We can ponder whether Boimler shot Mariner before or after he came up with the plan to trick the Brunt F.C.A. computer.
honestly at this point I think the whole season 2 focus when it comes to Mariner and Boimler is to deal with their broken friendship and trying to mend it parts by parts and they'll have to bridge some parts. Here it showed Mariner wasn't just scared of Boimler leaving her behind again but also that a part of it is she's afraid he's not ready to do so. And because it's a good crutch she kind of just amplifies it as an excuse to hide all her other issues. And her lesson of the episode is that she shouldn't doubt him because he has come further than she thought. In a way it seems like a step up to force her to actually be more honest and vulnerable and being more confident in her relationships with other people. Which would lead to her having to deal with her behavior. I was also frustrated it wasn't touched more upon in this episode but because of the format season 2 seems to have chosen I'm not really upset (yet at least). Rutherford's "but I like my comfort zone, it's comfortable" line is such a mood I can't even I'm Aro/Ace and honestly I think billis being Biromantic Asexual would be nice. I take the treatment, while being played for laugh, as not being bad or problematic for the same reason that his mother tricking him isn't problematic in the narrative sense because it's shown as being about who he is and being forced in general is not a good thing (the other reason for him not being able to get it up could have also been the whole "being forced" thing, which is another possibility I like)
The Rutherford/Tendy relationship seems so expected at this point. Last episode, with Boimler making Tendy laugh... I'd love to see the show subvert our expectations and curate a relationship bt those 2 that makes both Rutherford and what's her name come to terms w the people they care about. Both of them are blind to their feelings. If Boimler and Tendy started to date, Mariner would be forced to deal w her "I don't want him but don't want anyone else to have him" energy... And Rutherford would be in a situation to be jealous of Tendy instead of the other way around. Ultimately, it would make the show a lot better. It's a clever, funny show.. But it's been on auto pilot since it established itself as the "meme" star trek show. I'd love to see it depart it's predifined protocol and take a risk to become something other than the "spot the Easter egg" clap-trap its been leaning into w its second season. What do you think?
That would be a great development for everyone! I could see them having a very sweet and loving relationship that would force everyone around them to confront their emotions.
I agree that Mariner was a jerk in this episode, but she was explicitly shown to be wrong by the narrative, and even apologized to Boimler, so I’m curious how else you wanted to see her “called out”?
I hope we see Mariner's character make some real changes by the end. It seems to me like she's being a jerk because Boimler is moving forward with his life and she's just been stagnating, so I'd really like to see them unpack that.
Another great review. I do hope that Tendi and Rutherford actually becomes a full relationship before the end of the series. I don't want this will they won't they last forever. Lower Decks is easily becoming the star trek series with almost constantly 8/10 + episodes. I cannot off the top of my head think of a single dud one.
I agree with your Mariner take, and also wonder if there's an additional angle going on with Mariner. Of the foursome, her "thing" is that she's very experienced, capable of action and leadership when she sees the need, despite being a perma-ensign. Boimler being capable and taking up leadership roles could be seen as threatening her place in the group.
I'm Ace more from not liking being touched and severe social anxiety rather than lack of libido so take this as you will. What I liked about Billup's possible Ace status isn't so much that he could be but that all his friends and colleagues are supportive of his decision. There were no back-handed comments or "bro that sucks for you" sentiments from anyone. Everyone had his back. Also that celebratory cake party in engineering at the end was so wholesome.
I think it was very much the writer’s intentions to at least bring up the concept for conversation if nothing else (it is a fluffy comedy cartoon after all lol). As a cis, it was pretty obvious to me, so I can only imagine that to the lgbt + community it would really stand out. Overall, I agree almost completely with you Jessie (see my Mariner comment)! Nice work!
I agree that the progression of dear Brad was the best part of the episode and Mariner was more of a jerk than usual. Tendi was also great. She had some of the heaviest moments in this episode. I feel like she is really confused by her feelings at this point, and I'm curious how that is going to turn out because to me it feels like they are setting up a plotline about subverting expectations. Like for every hint they have laid down about the growing romance between her and Rutherford there is a little moment about Tendi being uncomfortable with some aspect of her sexuality. So far all we know is before that Tendi joined Starfleet she was maybe involved in some kind of BDSM lifestyle that she is very uncomfortable about. I'm kind of wondering if we might see a very special episode that really tests how mature this adult animation can be. The Daystrom ending made me think of the Picard trailer. Like, it made me go, oh yeah, it makes sense if they ever captured the Borg Queen that would be where they would imprison her. I kind of wanted to see an animated version of Agnes instead of the older enby running the computer prison.
I tend to agree with you on the Mariner thing. The stuff she does in this episode is pretty much within the characterization we’ve had since the beginning. She ignores Boimler’s wishes to the point of violating consent pretty frequently, it’s just normally done for laughs. If anything it’s more of a backslide for her, in my book. Case in point, Brad very explicitly, and very vocally, said he didn’t want her mentorship in the first episode, but she ignored his wishes and we have a TV show because of it. 🤷🏻♀️ Since I love her AND her TV show, and have always seen this as part of her character, so I guess I didn’t bump on it the way other people have. And to be fair, and more to your point, I think the writers were using this interaction to demonstrate that *Brad* has changed since the start of the show, not realizing that it does Mariner dirty in the process (because, like I said, I think she’s grown since episode one and probably wouldn’t act this way in a more Mariner-centric episode). I also agree that they are pushing Tendi forward in an interesting way with this episode, but as far as the kink side of things, I viewed it as an attempt to parody the Enterprise portrayal of Orion society as *~secretly~*~a~*~matriarchy~*. I mean, I’m all for retcons that reframe misogynistic world building from fifty years ago, but I feel like that one was also *particularly* of its time. In my opinion, in 2021, “the Orion women were actually in charge this whole time” is a bit of an awkward copout (and probably was in 2001 as well). I think them showing Tendi as a heightened-and unwilling-participant in that dynamic resolves this tension for me. That being said I’m WAY on board with Tendi needing to work through her problems with the gender power dynamics she was raised with before moving forward romantically with Rutherford. I feel like that’s a great opportunity for commentary and even role modeling for people (cis-men) who *want* an egalitarian relationship, but need to unlearn some patriarchy before that can happen. (And I also think an Anges cameo at the Daystrom Institute would have been cute. 😆)
Honestly I want Tendi and Rutherford just be friends. In media a relationship between male and female characters are most often a lot about getting together or not. I'd like to see Lower Decks show that people can just be very intimate friends.
And can I say that I want Tendi and Rutherford to get together? No, "Will they or Won't They", but just friends to nervous lovers, to ecstatic couple, to lets take a break for each other and then realize we can't live without each other, and then the part when their friends feel awkward but they are happy for them, but they can't see it, until they do and resolved everything with a big hug (and static electricity for some reason). Can we have that?
I see where they were going with Boimler tricking the Evil Computer, but don't really think it worked since I don't believe for a second that EC wouldn't notice and wouldn't be able to figure a way to start up the other systems. Good concept, including Boimler having to pull off a long game con, but ultimately not believable imo.
I never really interpreted mariner getting Boimler reassigned as a reaction to his independence but as her underestimating his capabilities. The comment she made under her breath before they crashed was that she doubted Boimler would survive such a mission.
Great video! Wrt to mariner, I don't know, for my tastes I can get annoyed if there's too much "punctuation", it can be frustrating when a show gives the feeling that its creators don't trust the audience to get it
I agree with you about Mariner. She crossed a line when she got Ransom to switch Boimler's mission. She was clearly out of line, and the resolution was a bit thin. I do not like Mariner, but I've been a Star Trek fan since 1966. Nice presentation. My compliments..
I don't think that she was trying to stymie his career. It seem genuine that she was trying to protect him and didn't think he was ready for heavy action. She may not have been right, but it was a growth moment for both of them. She is proven wrong and sees that he is more ready that she realized, and he proves himself to be more capable than anyone gave him credit for. The audience is also treated to how much Beckett likes him. Not only wanting to be around him, but acting as his silent knight. Older sister, or like him like him. She doesn't seem like she would fall for the Will Riker type. This was the funniest episode with the least amount of direct call backs.
Asexual reporting in. I really connected with Billups in THAT scene. It really felt like me before I knew I was ace. The frustration and feelings of inadequacy were spot on. Also, unrelated, I DON'T UNDERSTAND LICORICE HATE. I love it, always have. I want to try those fruits.
I'm disappointed in Mariner because I thought after last week she wouldn't be so possessive of Boimler and I guess we learn that she isnt as over it as we realised. I assume this is all the beginning of a build up to the finale but it does leave this episode hanging in terms of her characterization until its addressed. I think more than anything, Lower Decks needs more time each episode. They didnt have enough for the A plot For the B-plot one thing that stuck with me is those two hotties would be worth leaving Starfleet over.
It seemed like Mariner learned her lesson. Boimler recognized that too. If she continues her behavior then I think he’s address it. It’s the Federation way to forgive friends when they make mistakes. Especially if they’ve learned from it.
Over and over again Billups and Rutherford seem very gay. There's a Daddy bear relationship that Shax often fits into. Hence Billup's "flat tire". Throwing a woman in the bed was the mother's biggest mistake. Also, LD explores what happens to children like Alexander whose parents abandon them to pursue a Star Fleet career. Mainer is the perfect foil for this.
@@Donnagata1409 Yes ... I could see how that might be a huge issue for some. But I also suspect you don't sport one of those 70's vintage trademark motorcycle cop mustaches as well. Like Rutherford does. A Village People's clone if I've ever seen one.
Billups isn't Asexual. He's chosing to be celibate because he doesn't want to rule. Not because he lacks attraction. But future episodes could fix that.
agree there, without having weight to Mariner's action, things just feel icky, like i fully expecting her issues to be a plot point later like the holodeck/movie episode was for her but thing being standalone just doesn't work. on the other story side, I really hope they hire a ace writer/sensitivity reader if that was what they were going for, choosing not to have sex for outside reasons and just not knowing how to "work it" down there would be so off the mark (to the point i didn't think they were trying to be asexual there).
What I like about the episode and about Billups as a potential ace character is characters like this usually go two ways, either they're too frigid and logical to truly understand love or they're the sexually repressed nerd (or both, thanks Sherlock), and Billups averted both those tropes. No one demeans him for being a virgin or implies there's something wrong with him for not liking sex, and considering how stories like this usually go, that's a breath of fresh air.
I'm nearly a year late, but I'm catching up now and I enjoyed this too. Especially enjoyed at the end when he was back in engineering and proclaimed that he kept his virginity and the crew cheered for him. That's a wonderful support system! Made my asexual heart happy to see
I love that Billups' planet was casually mentioned to have been colonized by Ren-Fair enthusiasts and that's why everything was vaguely medieval.
Mariner is interesting in that her behavior almost seems compulsive at times. She clearly cares deeply for Boimler and seems to genuinely hate being apart from him and yet she is unable to put her feelings into words, often lying about said feelings and often treats Boimler really badly. Its like she cant help herself. It also makes me think of her self sabotage of her own career. Its easy to wonder if something from her past has made her like this .
She’s a tsundere
Yeah, she’s definitely insecurely attached. I think Starfleet basically just traumatised her good but bc she was a starship brat she never knew anything else so just stays in.
In episode 3 of season 2, Mariner tells Tendi that whenever she reveals herself her friends always get promoted and leave her (which was kinda hinted at in s1e7 with Ramsey so hopefully we get some lore on that.) I think that she makes Boimler dependent on her because she's afraid that if he becomes independent he'll take off to another ship- which did occur and we can see that Mariner held a grudge against him for it. My prediction is that Boimler is going to get reminded of Mariner taking him off the op, so he does some research on Mariner. This leads to some lore where she tries to ask out Ramsey, but is rejected, thus giving her abandonment issues. Then B plot ensues, Mariner finds out that Boimler knows, add a heartfelt moment where they promise to stay together, and then everyone goes home happy.
She served during the Dominion War and also saw her friend eaten by an alien who was masquerading as another friend. She’s got pretty bad ptsd which we see in multiple episodes.
I can't think of anyone who could pull off an evil computer better than Jeffrey Combs!
John DiMaggio?
Bite my shiny, glowing isolinear chip!
It was such a delight to see Jeffrey Combs doing a Lower Decks role, and ontop of that a nearly cosmic horror role at that. Star Trek and cosmic horror: the two things Jeff does best.
The episode really needed about a 10 second exchange of Mariner apologizing for what she did and promising to do better, and Boimler responding with something to the effect of "nah don't worry about it; this'll look great in my review, too," and maybe a gag where Boimler reprograms the replicator to make all Mariner's requests taste like black licorice.
After all, "outsmarting an evil computer" probably checks off an important box before someone can become a captain in Starfleet.
It's in section 3 of the Kirk block on the eval sheet.
Regarding the lack of Mariner comeuppance: what I thought was missing was Boimler accusing her of acting just like her mother, whom we've also seen be smothering and micro-managing. /That/ would have been a way for Mariner to get some character growth, along with Boimler. But as you said, maybe they'll address this later!
Oh come on now, we have to save SOMETHING for the season finale!
That BIllips and his mother are played by husband and wife Paul Scheer and June Diane Raphael added a whole other level to this story.
Gotta love that everyone's full first name is quite odd - Bradward, Samanthan, Andriarche... I'm expecting Ransom to be Jackalanthion or something at this point...
Also loved the black liquorice running gag, how shit AGIMUS' attempts to manipulate Boimler and Mainer were, and Mariner calling Boimler's time on the Titan his study abroad made me laugh more than it should.
Weird names all around, then you have an Andorian called "Jennifer."
@@jolan_tru That was apparently an ad-lib by Tawny Newsome that the staff decided to run with, and I love it.
@@lorcannagle
I like it!
Although now I think about it, Jennifer is still a weird name for an Andorian.
@@jolan_tru Her parents were really into human culture, clearly. I think it stands to reason that after 200-odd years of the Federation there'd be some level of cultural crossover, like how I'm Irish with an Irish name but my wife's name comes from Latin.
I love when Mariner calls his time on Titan his "Study Abroad".
The Black Licorice gag reminded me of a very similar joke from Duck Tales with Della Duck on the moon with all the life sustaining gum being black licorice flavored.
This is my favorite Lower Decks episode thus far. As someone who grew up in a family of "Ren Faire people," this episode had a direct line to my funny bone in a way few things do. Absolute magic.
And black licorice is one of my favorite things, so I'd be totally ok on that planet.
Black licorice, yum!!! 😋
One thing that was Neat about the Bilips Story, is that every time he Proudly Exclaimed that he was still a Virgin, his Engineering Crew all Cheered Him on in the most wholesome way... Like they weren't doing the "Bro-Dude" thing that is to Snicker or Demean him for it, they Just Genuinely Cheered for em.
I should also note that I was also Slightly Bothered by How Mariner Acted, but it didn't seem quite that bad to be. Mostly because I saw what she did as basically her just trying to keep her best friend near her, she just wanted him to be on the same mission as her. That and She wasn't REALLY trying to stifle his career, it's more like she wanted to make sure he never got in over his head too quick, Kinda Like a doting parent. She wants him to succeed, but she also doesn't want him to Be shoved into something that's too much to handle too quickly simply because he tried too hard to get those promotions too fast... It's a Legit Concern for her to have, and we all know that Boymler would Completely ignore her if she brought it up to him to his face, and based off past Evidence, he'd then Inevitably get himself into more than he can Handle just to try and Prove her Wrong, Which in the process would only prove her right... So all in all, Going behind his Back to get the goal done, Not Cool, But I get it, it's not coming from a place of "I Refuse to Let you Live up to your Potential! I will Keep you here in the Lower decks forever if I have my say!!! BUAHAHAHAHA!!!"... You know?
1000%, engineering is clearly the most supportive environment :)
@@spekticat
I dunno, the Bear Pack was pretty supportive, too.
How did I miss that the queen was basically Lwaxana? Here, I saw the two major plots as being TOS references, with Billups' people being a reference to the parallel Earths and the evil computer being like "A Taste of Armageddon."
Also, Billups is ace. I'm trying to think if Trek has had a character as explicitly ace before.
i don't disagree with you on Mariners behavior, but i kinda see Boimler not involving her in the deception as him getting back at her for the whole thing
That was my reading as well. He's like "yeah, I get it, you have abandonment issues, but I shot you and kept you in the dark so we're good now."
I think it's building to a point where he's mentoring her and helping her rank up, and this was an important turning point in that relationship. I think that her sabotage will have ramifications, but less so from Brad and more with making Mariner realize she's a pretty shitty friend a lot of the time.
I really liked the ace representation with Billups too. I myself am not asexual, but my partner is. As an autistic person, one of my hyper-fixations in recent years has been studying and learning all about human sexuality, so I'm grateful I already had the knowledge of asexuality to help my partner cope when she figured it out. Things like, it's yet another perfectly normal form of human sexuality, you're not broken or damaged, and we still have such incredible intimacy together in a non-sexual way (Naked cuddling while watching our favourite geeky shows for example). It was a no-brainer for me to make the decision to stay with her when she figured it out and came out to me :)
I'm ace-spec myself, and I personally thought it was great. You go, Billups! We stan an ace king- Err, chief engineer!
OMG the little false start clip at the end had me rolling!!!!!!
Can we just note Jessie's knack for clever use of sound effects, especially in a comedic fashion? No other youtuber has yet made me chuckle or outright laugh just with the right sound effect at the right moment more than once, and Jessie is already establishing a goddamned *pattern* of doing so in several videos! It's a very neat filmmaking skill!
yes, Jessie’s comedic timing right on point
I loved how Agimus, the Combs computer, becomes Khorne for a second. Blood for the blood god! Skulls for the skull throne!
Quality response. Love it.
I hope we can get confirmation of Billups actually being Ace instead of just unable to get it up.
That would be great.
Why not? But I loved that he's expected to "lose his virginity" with both sexes! Great that he's got a choice!
Boimler is such a great character right now. He's getting more and more great moments and the evil computer made me laugh every time he spoke. He was just so obvious and trying so hard I loved it
And as an ace person who's felt a lot of pressure to have sex, I do relate to Billups being so done with his home culture, just trying to ignore and move past it. By concept alone, the plot was a little uncomfortable, but I think they did it pretty much as well as they could. Mostly because Billups wasn't framed as being sad for being a virgin and the crew wholeheartedly supported him with his decisions. It helped that it came across as something he wasn't really missing out on or even that rough a decision. It's just not what he's into. He's into engineering and 100% happy with that. I can see him being both ace or allo but with other priorities, which is always fun to headcanon
Going back to the other plot, I get the feeling the last few episodes are building up to a point where Mariner has to confront herself again, like the later season 1 episodes. She is too controlling of Boimler right now, and I don't think she's even recognising it. It's definitely a massive issue in their friendship and I hope it gets resolved without him having to suffer too much more
(Also as an artist, the colour design and backgrounds in this episodes were *gorgeous*. Both Billup's home ship and the planet Mariner and Boimler were stranded on were one of the first times I've watched this show and really thought it looked great)
Super agree!
Billups seems ace, sure, but can we also talk about how Tendi feels like a demisexual/demiromantic person who has absolutely NO clue how to handle being attracted to someone? Like, I can't be the only one who reads her that way, right?
I think it's more likely she doesn't know how to court someone when not the Mistress of Winter Constellations.
@@CT_Phipps or both
i am worried about Billups's mother pointed out they have been trained to ignore foreplay cos that sounded like grooming
also i hope he is ace/aro
I also think it's a joke on the fact that in the middle ages, which their culture is based on, that kind of shit was held up as a good thing. There are whole royal lines whose entire jobs were as marriage fodder to gain alliances.
I love how they handled Billups. As a person who, at 42, has been questioning if I am asexual (it would explain a lot). I like how this was handled. Billips not being all that phased by giving up sex as if he could take it or leave it felt really nice to me. And no one on the ship really shamed him for his lack of interest in sex at all which I loved. In fact, the people pushing him into a sexual situation he didn't want to have are seen as the negative characters here. I loved that!!!
Hey now jessie, I came here for a star trek review and here you are nearly making my warp core go critical in the opening seconds with that jargon. Please jessie! This is a family channel! Presumably.
My Thursday morning alarm has gone off - my Jessie LD
Review is now locked and loaded and ready to watch…
Now that I’m a 52 year old forced into ‘retirement’ because of a serious health issue - I’m Going to go make some coffee and kick back and enjoy my Jessie -
Thanks again for the Thursday Morning Review Jessie!
I really liked the Evil Combsputer, but the big "Raiders Of The Lost Ark" vault at the Daystrom Institute at the end seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
I think two episodes ago, Mariner described her feelings for Brad as "like for a pet". From that frame of reference, I can see why she struggles to see him grow...
He's the ultimate "soft drink buyer" (that's what we call soyboys).
P.S. No, in fact he's not, but he pretends to be, to get his way!
Did his Kingdom come was a funny line
Now we know that on the bottom on the soles of regulation boots has the Starfleet logo stamped on them, a neat bit of lore. It's little details like this that make this show truly remarkable.
Starfleet has merch
This episode made me doubt my confidence in my read that Mariner's black ops rumors are just rumors. Darn it, evil computer, you drew me in!
Also, definitely glad to see Combs get another character on his list.
As an Ace person, the scene with Billups in the bathroom.... hit a little too close to home that I didn't register it as a joke on the first go through, especially where he's trying to, uh, "encourage" himself to follow through.
Watching it again, I still don't really take it as a "joke" at Billups expense, but I can see how it might read that way.
There's a lot of talk about Billups being asexual. Maybe. But, I am not. And, I was very much like him when I was a virgin.
There's no reason to assume that all men are waiting to pounce. I actually see Rutherford as more asexual. Billups vocally laments his choice but says it's necessary. Meanwhile, Rutherford likes comradery, companionship, and a touch of romance, but doesn't seem at all interested in sex (and talks about the warp core with far more passion than a date).
If he's meant to be Ace, it's not good representation. It comes off far more as bad dick joke humour.
@@jp12x I agree with this, about Rutherford. Like he’s ace but not aro maybe.
I think Billups just came from a stifling sexual culture and hated it, and thus has never really processed what his actual relationship to sexuality even is. Especially because he feels he hasn’t truly escaped that culture either, he still feels beholden to their rules.
@@kaitlyn__L Billups' situation is fairly straightforward. By Hysperian law he must become King upon losing virginity, so his only choice to live the way he wants is to be celibate. A part of him wants to experience it. But that means giving up what he truly wants. His decision is one of pure selfishness, choosing the truth that benefited him. And he's proud of it. He'll happily accept being a virgin so he can choose what he wants to do.
I loved loved loved this episode. Their episode was not only strong, but one of the best balances of story and humor that they have done to date.
Also, that ship was beyootiful! I want one!
Also also, Jessie, your review is always our immediate followup to watching Lower Decks it's suck lovely icing on the cake. 🍰
It's the Combputer!
I think that, given the fact that Billup's homeworld is based on medieval-ish values, it makes it more understandable that its monarchy would press their young into having sex to keep the bloodline and the throne continuity despite their sexual orientation (or lack of). Actual medieval times were probably not as kind nor funny for those who didn't want to comply.
Also, it is interesting that you mention that he loves engineering as much as other people love sex. It reminded me the infamous holo-Leah Brahms incident Georgi (being another engineer!) had when "Leah" said that every time he touched the engine he'd be touching her. Not that Billups has some kind of warp engine fetish but your comment certainly reminded me of that scene.
Greetings from Costa Rica.
I think it's very cool that this was released on Celebrate Bisexuality Day, considering the scene toward the end with the Queen's guards
I didn't really interpret the end of Tendy and Rutherford's storyline as a romantic thing at all; to me it really seemed like it was more about Tendy having still never really dealt with the trauma of losing Rutherford last season and hadn't really realised it until he almost died again.
This is true. They have a clear attraction, but it seems based on things that are not romantic. The potential for romance is pretty clear, but Rutherford is kind of "soft" about a lot of things. I'm not sure if he's asexual or just doesn't express himself.
@@jp12x Rutherford was all into dating Barnes and in all honesty might still be dating her but just not mentioning it when Tendi is around. Tendi may not have much experience with healthy romantic relationships since her time as an Orion pirate dosen't seem to have provided much in the way of good examples for that kind of thing.
At this point it could honestly go either way. If they were both men or both women, Straight(TM) people would say, "They're obviously good friends. Not everything has to be romantic." (Btw I am straight but I'd like to think I'm not Straight(TM).) Personally, I like Tendi & Rutherford platonically but I also like Tendi/Rutherford romantically.
May of said this before, but I do appreciate how you discuss the orientations as they apply to the episodes and characters.
The relationship between Rutherford and Tendy is not a will they won't they proposition. I think the show is building up to make them a couple. What we're seeing right now is the journey, but it's the ultimate destination. Also, on the issue of Mariner's actions, I can kind of see things from her perspective. While she has seen some of Boimler's growth as an officer, he still shows tendencies to backslide from time to time, so I can see her making the assessment that he's not ready. Where I think she slips is that she's not his commanding officer and it's not her place to make that decision.
Also, I am of the belief that Boimler got promoted before he was ready. He did experience growth while on the Titan, because I can't see season one Boimler being able to trick the evil AI like season two Boimler did, but overall, I do think he still needs some polishing before being promoted to higher rank.
I think we’ll see William Boimler show up as a full lieutenant in the finale… to make Brad feel even worse about that (he risked his life to save everyone, got into a transporter accident, and then was _demoted for it!_ While Will Boimler reaped all the rewards!)
I also wanted more of a resolution and would have preferred a talk over an evil computer joke, but I don't think Mariner thought Boimler was getting too good for her. I thought she was specifically underestimating Boimler, as evidenced by her saying "if you survived" under her breath, and constantly expecting him to mess up. I think the quick forgiveness at the end was because Boimler had his mic drop "look what I just pulled off" moment. He had just proven himself capable.
I think there might be something to Mariner WANTING Boimler to need her, and her being in denial about it, but everything in this episode is consistent with her underestimating him.
It's also consistent with the look on her face in the previous episode during Boimler saving Tendi. Whereas Rutherford looked happy and confident in Boimler, Mariner continued to look worried and upset. I don't think she had confidence in him then, and she didn't have confidence in him this episode.
"Mariner WANTING Boimler to need her, and her being in denial about it"
Well, that's a really interesting idea.
Another episode I really liked a lot! Both of the plots were very well done. It was interesting that we got Billup's backstory. I agree about Mariner. Her jealousy and insecurity directed at Boimler was way over the top. It was true to her character, but I wish Boimler had called her out on it.
I thought he did
So far this is my favorite episode of season 2, great graphics, well written jokes and both the A and B stories were appealing.
best line of the episode "my scans indicate you could lose a couple of pounds" OUCH! oh and about your issues with Mariner, i completely agree, though i love the character, her sabotaging boimlers choices aren't addressed. it's mean and selfish and the series kinda lets her get away with these selfish choices without any type of repurcussions.
It depends on whether you think Boimler had a plan from the start. I feel he figured it out after he shot Mariner, which would make her right. But, she believes him when he said he had a plan. So, maybe she recognizes she was wrong too.
I don't think we have yet seen the fallout of this (when you talk about Boimler forgiving Mariner "just like that").
Possibly, but I can only base my opinion on the episode in front of me, and that was my reaction.
Even if in a community, I don’t think anyone can perfectly represent a community. They can provide their opinion, and it can be observed how common that opinion is among others in their community, but one can ultimately only speak for themselves.
Granted, this doesn’t mean issues can’t be pointed out and explained, and odds can be in favor of offense for people with shared traits. I mostly think the grouping, however well meaning, can itself be problematic.
"You're in time out until you stop siding with the enemy!" And by enemy, I mean your lack of collar. Harrumph!
I think you can read Boimler 2 different ways at the end of the episode. 1 He may have had a plan and been unable to communicate it as Coombs was omni present. OR 2 Boimler was genuinely tricked and figured it out by the end but it's not clear just when.
In the first, Mariner is wrong and Boimler is ready. In the second, Boimler is NOT ready and Mariner is completely right.
I find Mariner's hesitation fine for multiple reasons. She knows Boimler has grown but also knows he is overconfident and naïve.
Even if you think Boimler had a plan from the start and couldn't communicate it directly, he should have been able to communicate it indirectly. How about "Mariner! This is just like you rewriting my holodeck program! I'm not going to let you strand us here!" Mariner is quick enough to know when something doesn't make sense and should be curious enough to trust him,
Anyway, I did not have the same problems with the Coombs plot. The Billups plot wasn't deep, and I called it, but it was still entertaining.
I didn't read Billups as asexual at all. He's a nervous virgin. To suggest he's asexual due to nerves is to suggest that it is "normal" to jump straight into sex at any opportunity. Remember the royal guard skips foreplay: not a great trait for virgins...
Also, Billups literally says he gas sworn off sex in order to be in Starfleet. If he didn't care about sex, he wouldn't call it a sacrifice.
If you really want to see an asexual, look to Rutherford. He's not aromantic but has so far been presented as asexual.
Mariner is a control freak. It's her defining trait. Everything must be measured against her personal standards, and everything else is immaterial. A lot of characters in fiction have this flaw, and writers confuse that with a forceful personality.
Here's hoping that the LD writers recognize this (they seem to) and show her growing out of this hut. That would be a good series finale, as it would mean she'd be ready for a promotion to lieutenant - or higher.
Sidenote: she seems to be competent enough for a lieutenant commander commission. It's her psychological drawbacks that keep her from advancing through the ranks - and being happy with it.
And about Billups and his backstory...it was crazy, but amazingly so. I mean, who among us ever loved something so much that we'd stay a virgin forever for it? There was a whole thing about the ensigns loving the warp core last season, but let's face it...Billups REALLY loves the warp core. Would Scotty have ever been an engineer if he'd had to give up whisky?
I suspect why so many people buy he's ace. Sex isn't that important for him.
Billups' mom doesn't deserve to polish Lwaxana's boots. Lwaxana cares about Deanna, and has a deep inner life. Billups ' mom just... sucks and is selfish. Lwaxana Troi FTW!
Agreed, Lwaxana would probably chew The Queen out for her bull crap.
Yeah, Lwaxana has depth. This woman was just terrible and abusive.
So I'm ace and certainly read Billup's in that way but he's interesting as a source of representation. The fact that it's not explicit makes it difficult to even call it that for sure and it's hard to tell if it's even intentional or not. It could be read as just a funny joke because a lot of people would laugh at the concept of a man not wanting to have sex. I do think it's important though that the characters in universe don't treat it like a joke, everyone respects that he doesn't want that and they even cheer for him at the end when he says he'll be a virgin forever. So even if it flies over most of the audiences heads it still does put forth the idea that this is a valid way to be to anyone looking for it. I do hope that they eventually make it explicit if that was the intention because otherwise it could be read as just another joke. But for now, I did enjoy the episode and I like what they've done with Billups so far, it is nice to see a character who is not interested in sex and appears to be a perfectly well adjusted and happy person because that's pretty rare.
Billups' story was at once exciting because it had so much that was relatable to an ace (which I myself am), particularly the attempt of others to virgin shame him, his desire to invest his time & passion into what actually interests him & his exasperation with everyone else's obsession with his virginity.
I also really loved that he felt no embarrassment about himself & openly explained the situation and that his friends & colleagues were completely in his corner. That was awesome.
However my big criticism is that the story seemed to imply that Billups was choosing to remain celibate, which is choosing not to have sex rather than simply feeling no urge for it. If Billups is officially asexual in cannon I really hope that they go back to make that distinction clear, because as it stands it looks like he's choosing to not have sex to remain in Star Fleet rather than just not being interested in it
I think both can exist; Billups does deliberately chose to be celibate but he doesn't seem distress by it. I think it's a case of rebellion without thinking if he actually wants to have it at all. He's not thinking about his own desires (it doesn't seem it even accure to him) but rather not having sex in opposition to someone/something (his mother) and when confronted with the chance to have sex, it seemed to gross him out.
Either that, or I'm giving the show a pass because I was pleasantly surprised by this development and I don't want it ripped away from me yet so I feel the need not to see its flaws.
Possibly both.
I could also just see him lack the language for it.
Like, his mom definitely wouldn't have allowed him to know what asexuality is, and the people in star fleet might be past it as a concept? Like, not wanting Sex, or only wanting it with a select few people you find attractive, or anything else on the ace spectrum, is so accepted that there's no need for the term anymore
The site I watch Lower Decks on usually doesn't get the episode until Thursday evening/next day, so I'm always just listening to your reviews in the tiniest chunks until I can watch the episode 😭
Who else caught that one of the evil computers at the end glowed in the shape of the CBS Eye logo?
Nah. Mariner didn't believe Boimler had become that competent. She was trying to save her little buddy's life.
Also, I know Mariner's fantasy is to be carried bridal style to her own private cabin on the Cerritos. Insert a long line outside of said cabin of beefy tall girls, boys and lovely enbis taking a number to do just that. Wow. my imagination is running wild today. No sleep will do that to ya! :D
Now I see her offering herself as a volunteer if Tendi ever misses her old self again for a little bit
This episode that Mariner and Tendi really have caring feels to Boimler and Rutherford.
The Vaal-like shape to the front of the Warp Engine in the episode was a nice touch. Vaal was the snake headed "god" from the TOS episode "The Apple".
Re Marinar plot - I think her whole career/life kinda calls her out .. she clearly should be further in her life but seems stuck, and the fact it fits within her character to behave this way says why. While Boimler doesn’t directly call her out, her failure here (and in other episodes) does to us as the viewer. I feel that sometimes the best way to change a problematic behavior is to show how it fails vs direct confrontation. Let her come to the realization and i believe it works better (tho maybe not as satisfying as a ‘comeuppance’). I believe we are leading up to a reversal of the mentor relationship as Boimler grows and becomes the one who ends up being a mentor of sorts to Mariner as an example who pulls her forward despite the flaws that held her back before
I hope they end up dealing with Mariner's jealousy soon, it's getting a bit annoying, to be honest. It's a bit like how I felt about Tom Paris being a massive prick in order to infiltrate the Kazon, but even that didn't have Tom being a massive prick to Harry. Even though I expect they'll have an entire episode dealing with her issues I think they definitely should have had Boimler confront Mariner about her assholishness at least a little in this episode.
Also, yeah, without the purple collar, it feels more like this should be Jessie After Dark. Star Trek: Nights.
1. If you remember Mariner has sabotaged Boimler in the past, she took it on herself to be suspicious about his relationship with Barbra Brinson. This isn’t new behavior from her and it strikes me as her not having healthy boundaries between here work and professional lives. Maybe she should spend some time in Miglemoo’s office about that.
2. I feel like they wrote themselves into a corner with Boimler and Mariner, the only way they had out was to make Boimler planning it all along. That said it was a fun way to raise tensions and welcome back Jefferey Coombs.
3. I fell like the joke about the king of the Ren Fair planet being the guy who had sex is a way to lovingly poke fun at people who enjoy creative anachronisms. But it also gave them the opportunity to dial the Lawxana parody up to 11. Granted as her character progressed they developed her as more than a 1 dimensional manipulator of harassing her daughter about being unwed and pursuing Picard/Odo. I’m unsure if I want to see more from the Queen.
4. I feel like it’s a bit of a leap to call Billups A. It feels more like he’s trying to avoid sex not out of a lack of desire but more out of an obligation. I don’t mind if they open the door to that development in his character but I hope they take it easy. Otherwise, I feel like that’s the kind of thing where there’s a risk of Flanderization and suddenly every joke is about Billups revolves around the fact that he hasn’t been sexual yet.
A great review. And this was a great episode. The Weyoun computer (that's what I'm calling it) was a great parody of evil computers, and the one line that made me actually laugh out loud was when he said "I will blind you!" and did his dimmer-switch thing. That was the best line of the episode.
I think the Chief Engineer not having sex is a poke at all the frustrated comments LeVar BurTon has made about GeOrdi never having sex. There may be other overtones, but I'm betting it was Geordi's lack of a love life that inspired this bit.
As to Mariner being in the wrong here. . . well, that was sort of the point of the episode. She drew a little heart around "Mariner + Boimler" in the dive bar, so I suspect her need to have Boimler around is deeper than even she realizes. Similar to how most of the time when Riker turned down a promotion, it was strongly hinted that it was Deanna that he didn't want to leave, not the Enterprise in total. I think the reason the episode didn't 'punish' her (or rather the reason Boimler didn't call her out more) is because . . . the real punishment is that Boimler just isn't that into her, either as a friend or as a lover. Well, no more or less than he is into Tendi, or Rutherford. He's always willing to go hang out or date a random red shirt.
I don't know if this is deliberate or not, but in both pairings, this episode showed Tendi having strong feelings about Rutherford and Mariner having strong feelings about Boimler (regardless of whether either pair is sexual or platonic, the feelings are strong) and it showed both Boimler and Rutherford as being emotionally clueless or indifferent guys. Well, at least Rutherford was nice about it. We can ponder whether Boimler shot Mariner before or after he came up with the plan to trick the Brunt F.C.A. computer.
honestly at this point I think the whole season 2 focus when it comes to Mariner and Boimler is to deal with their broken friendship and trying to mend it parts by parts and they'll have to bridge some parts. Here it showed Mariner wasn't just scared of Boimler leaving her behind again but also that a part of it is she's afraid he's not ready to do so. And because it's a good crutch she kind of just amplifies it as an excuse to hide all her other issues. And her lesson of the episode is that she shouldn't doubt him because he has come further than she thought. In a way it seems like a step up to force her to actually be more honest and vulnerable and being more confident in her relationships with other people. Which would lead to her having to deal with her behavior. I was also frustrated it wasn't touched more upon in this episode but because of the format season 2 seems to have chosen I'm not really upset (yet at least).
Rutherford's "but I like my comfort zone, it's comfortable" line is such a mood I can't even
I'm Aro/Ace and honestly I think billis being Biromantic Asexual would be nice. I take the treatment, while being played for laugh, as not being bad or problematic for the same reason that his mother tricking him isn't problematic in the narrative sense because it's shown as being about who he is and being forced in general is not a good thing (the other reason for him not being able to get it up could have also been the whole "being forced" thing, which is another possibility I like)
The Rutherford/Tendy relationship seems so expected at this point. Last episode, with Boimler making Tendy laugh... I'd love to see the show subvert our expectations and curate a relationship bt those 2 that makes both Rutherford and what's her name come to terms w the people they care about. Both of them are blind to their feelings. If Boimler and Tendy started to date, Mariner would be forced to deal w her "I don't want him but don't want anyone else to have him" energy... And Rutherford would be in a situation to be jealous of Tendy instead of the other way around.
Ultimately, it would make the show a lot better. It's a clever, funny show.. But it's been on auto pilot since it established itself as the "meme" star trek show. I'd love to see it depart it's predifined protocol and take a risk to become something other than the "spot the Easter egg" clap-trap its been leaning into w its second season.
What do you think?
I really like that
Second
That would be a great development for everyone! I could see them having a very sweet and loving relationship that would force everyone around them to confront their emotions.
@@Tolly7249 Yes! I can totally see Brad and Tendy together!
I have to admit, I'm one of those weird guys who loves black licorice 🎩 😊
I agree with Rutherford.
I LIKE my comfort zone! It's comfortable and safe there.
I agree that Mariner was a jerk in this episode, but she was explicitly shown to be wrong by the narrative, and even apologized to Boimler, so I’m curious how else you wanted to see her “called out”?
She apologizes for thinking boimler sided with the computer, but not for pulling him from the centipede mission and lowering his rep with ransom.
@@liveadhdtv yeah.
I hope we see Mariner's character make some real changes by the end. It seems to me like she's being a jerk because Boimler is moving forward with his life and she's just been stagnating, so I'd really like to see them unpack that.
I think this was maybe the best episode of the season so far but I do agree that Mariner got off the hook too easy
Another great review. I do hope that Tendi and Rutherford actually becomes a full relationship before the end of the series. I don't want this will they won't they last forever. Lower Decks is easily becoming the star trek series with almost constantly 8/10 + episodes. I cannot off the top of my head think of a single dud one.
I agree with your Mariner take, and also wonder if there's an additional angle going on with Mariner. Of the foursome, her "thing" is that she's very experienced, capable of action and leadership when she sees the need, despite being a perma-ensign. Boimler being capable and taking up leadership roles could be seen as threatening her place in the group.
I'm Ace more from not liking being touched and severe social anxiety rather than lack of libido so take this as you will.
What I liked about Billup's possible Ace status isn't so much that he could be but that all his friends and colleagues are supportive of his decision. There were no back-handed comments or "bro that sucks for you" sentiments from anyone. Everyone had his back.
Also that celebratory cake party in engineering at the end was so wholesome.
I think it was very much the writer’s intentions to at least bring up the concept for conversation if nothing else (it is a fluffy comedy cartoon after all lol). As a cis, it was pretty obvious to me, so I can only imagine that to the lgbt + community it would really stand out. Overall, I agree almost completely with you Jessie (see my Mariner comment)! Nice work!
I agree that the progression of dear Brad was the best part of the episode and Mariner was more of a jerk than usual.
Tendi was also great. She had some of the heaviest moments in this episode. I feel like she is really confused by her feelings at this point, and I'm curious how that is going to turn out because to me it feels like they are setting up a plotline about subverting expectations. Like for every hint they have laid down about the growing romance between her and Rutherford there is a little moment about Tendi being uncomfortable with some aspect of her sexuality. So far all we know is before that Tendi joined Starfleet she was maybe involved in some kind of BDSM lifestyle that she is very uncomfortable about. I'm kind of wondering if we might see a very special episode that really tests how mature this adult animation can be.
The Daystrom ending made me think of the Picard trailer. Like, it made me go, oh yeah, it makes sense if they ever captured the Borg Queen that would be where they would imprison her. I kind of wanted to see an animated version of Agnes instead of the older enby running the computer prison.
I tend to agree with you on the Mariner thing. The stuff she does in this episode is pretty much within the characterization we’ve had since the beginning. She ignores Boimler’s wishes to the point of violating consent pretty frequently, it’s just normally done for laughs. If anything it’s more of a backslide for her, in my book. Case in point, Brad very explicitly, and very vocally, said he didn’t want her mentorship in the first episode, but she ignored his wishes and we have a TV show because of it. 🤷🏻♀️ Since I love her AND her TV show, and have always seen this as part of her character, so I guess I didn’t bump on it the way other people have.
And to be fair, and more to your point, I think the writers were using this interaction to demonstrate that *Brad* has changed since the start of the show, not realizing that it does Mariner dirty in the process (because, like I said, I think she’s grown since episode one and probably wouldn’t act this way in a more Mariner-centric episode).
I also agree that they are pushing Tendi forward in an interesting way with this episode, but as far as the kink side of things, I viewed it as an attempt to parody the Enterprise portrayal of Orion society as *~secretly~*~a~*~matriarchy~*. I mean, I’m all for retcons that reframe misogynistic world building from fifty years ago, but I feel like that one was also *particularly* of its time. In my opinion, in 2021, “the Orion women were actually in charge this whole time” is a bit of an awkward copout (and probably was in 2001 as well). I think them showing Tendi as a heightened-and unwilling-participant in that dynamic resolves this tension for me.
That being said I’m WAY on board with Tendi needing to work through her problems with the gender power dynamics she was raised with before moving forward romantically with Rutherford. I feel like that’s a great opportunity for commentary and even role modeling for people (cis-men) who *want* an egalitarian relationship, but need to unlearn some patriarchy before that can happen.
(And I also think an Anges cameo at the Daystrom Institute would have been cute. 😆)
Hi jessie. I love your channel. This review is great. You are wonderful. Lower decks it's a good show.
Honestly I want Tendi and Rutherford just be friends. In media a relationship between male and female characters are most often a lot about getting together or not. I'd like to see Lower Decks show that people can just be very intimate friends.
And can I say that I want Tendi and Rutherford to get together? No, "Will they or Won't They", but just friends to nervous lovers, to ecstatic couple, to lets take a break for each other and then realize we can't live without each other, and then the part when their friends feel awkward but they are happy for them, but they can't see it, until they do and resolved everything with a big hug (and static electricity for some reason). Can we have that?
Hey Jesse happy neil gaiman SANDMAN VOL 2 Day!!!!
Watching your review after watching the episode is now my favorite late night routine. Love the chanel thanks for another awesome video
I loved everyone in engineering having cace at the end of the episode. Thats an ace signature move!
I see where they were going with Boimler tricking the Evil Computer, but don't really think it worked since I don't believe for a second that EC wouldn't notice and wouldn't be able to figure a way to start up the other systems. Good concept, including Boimler having to pull off a long game con, but ultimately not believable imo.
I never really interpreted mariner getting Boimler reassigned as a reaction to his independence but as her underestimating his capabilities.
The comment she made under her breath before they crashed was that she doubted Boimler would survive such a mission.
Great video! Wrt to mariner, I don't know, for my tastes I can get annoyed if there's too much "punctuation", it can be frustrating when a show gives the feeling that its creators don't trust the audience to get it
Best part of the episode is the return of Jeffrey Combs to Star Trek.
What do you mean? He never left.... :)
@@jp12x too true.
I agree with you about Mariner. She crossed a line when she got Ransom to switch Boimler's mission. She was clearly out of line, and the resolution was a bit thin. I do not like Mariner, but I've been a Star Trek fan since 1966. Nice presentation. My compliments..
I don't think that she was trying to stymie his career. It seem genuine that she was trying to protect him and didn't think he was ready for heavy action. She may not have been right, but it was a growth moment for both of them. She is proven wrong and sees that he is more ready that she realized, and he proves himself to be more capable than anyone gave him credit for. The audience is also treated to how much Beckett likes him. Not only wanting to be around him, but acting as his silent knight. Older sister, or like him like him. She doesn't seem like she would fall for the Will Riker type.
This was the funniest episode with the least amount of direct call backs.
I was kinda expecting luwaxanna troi to actually show up
Asexual reporting in. I really connected with Billups in THAT scene. It really felt like me before I knew I was ace. The frustration and feelings of inadequacy were spot on. Also, unrelated, I DON'T UNDERSTAND LICORICE HATE. I love it, always have. I want to try those fruits.
"In conclusion, I took no offense to its representation of asexuality, but I am absolutely LIVID about its portrayal of black licorice."
@@danshive4017 Yes
I'm disappointed in Mariner because I thought after last week she wouldn't be so possessive of Boimler and I guess we learn that she isnt as over it as we realised. I assume this is all the beginning of a build up to the finale but it does leave this episode hanging in terms of her characterization until its addressed. I think more than anything, Lower Decks needs more time each episode. They didnt have enough for the A plot
For the B-plot one thing that stuck with me is those two hotties would be worth leaving Starfleet over.
It seemed like Mariner learned her lesson. Boimler recognized that too. If she continues her behavior then I think he’s address it. It’s the Federation way to forgive friends when they make mistakes. Especially if they’ve learned from it.
Black Licorice is awesome.... in moderate qualities because it can kill in excess.
I just got a huge laugh out of the concept of Ren Fair people invading Star Trek as a reverse play on Trekkies invading Ren Fairs.
I didn't mind how the Mariner/Boiler storyline ended. It seemed equal enough to me...she sabotaged his career, he shot her.
Over and over again Billups and Rutherford seem very gay. There's a Daddy bear relationship that Shax often fits into. Hence Billup's "flat tire". Throwing a woman in the bed was the mother's biggest mistake. Also, LD explores what happens to children like Alexander whose parents abandon them to pursue a Star Fleet career. Mainer is the perfect foil for this.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Well, the biggest mistake for me would be throwing a MAN into the bed!
@@Donnagata1409 Yes ... I could see how that might be a huge issue for some. But I also suspect you don't sport one of those 70's vintage trademark motorcycle cop mustaches as well. Like Rutherford does. A Village People's clone if I've ever seen one.
Lwaxana Troi: think the word "lock" and you will be on the right path.
I feel attacked. Black licorice is awesome. 🤬
I used to hate black licorice until a neighbor made some caramels with it. OMG, it was a revelation. Superb.
Billups isn't Asexual.
He's chosing to be celibate because he doesn't want to rule. Not because he lacks attraction. But future episodes could fix that.
Eh, he could be both.
I mean, he also doesn't seem interested in it. At all.
Those earrings are amazing.
getting him reassigned was a total dick move on Mariners part, but Boimler played that computer like a fiddle
agree there, without having weight to Mariner's action, things just feel icky, like i fully expecting her issues to be a plot point later like the holodeck/movie episode was for her but thing being standalone just doesn't work.
on the other story side, I really hope they hire a ace writer/sensitivity reader if that was what they were going for, choosing not to have sex for outside reasons and just not knowing how to "work it" down there would be so off the mark (to the point i didn't think they were trying to be asexual there).