Same except mine is Octane grey pearl . I feel the same way this one just might be my forever car . Had a 22 M240i and all around I like my FL5 much much more 👍🏻👊🏻
Both awesome and thank God different. Most RUclips reviewers want all vehicles to be same and offer same features, but complain about similarities and lack of distinction. I applaud you for understanding the difference and still appreciate each for what they are. I have chosen type R version which is Acura Integra Type S and my wife and I love it.
I have an M3 xdrive and Integra type s. I’ve driven the G87 M2 manual hard as well. The quick steering and light weight on the Honda products make them more engaging and confidence inspiring in turns, and there’s the whole “drive a slow car fast rather than a fast car slow” bit too. Very hard to stretch a G8x car’s legs on the street. The BMWs are objectively better cars, but I often opt to go out in the Acura because I have more fun around town at lower speeds and on tight turns Honda/ Acura inputs feel more natural and weight is lower, BMWs have more numb and less communicative inputs, but are more capable.
The FL5 is like a surgical knife. Can't imagine what a tune will do to this car. There are a few people pushing 550-550HP on youtube in their FL5s already with better turbos. The G87 M2 definitely has more layers to uncover and one of them is weight reduction. What people forget is why they bought the car and their usage. As a daily driver I'd go M2 all day because of the comfort and luxury. As a weekend, canyons and fun 2nd or 3rd car; FL5 all day.
@@davothegreat9990 if you have driven both of them back to back, you’ll know what I mean. I don’t mean to bash the m3, it’s a fun car to drive, a super fast one, and it is one of the tops of its own league. But as you daily the m3, some of the nuances becomes annoying, like the vague brake pedal feel, too light of steering wheel. To an extend it feels like isolated to the road. Almost like driving an electric car, and yes, i am also a current owner of tesla model 3 performance. And that almost 4000lb weight definitely not light, you certainly would feel the weight tossing around corner in twisty road like Angeles Crest. Yeah you can say the type R is FWD and not as great as OG RWD, but Honda has nailed it on the type r, it doesn’t feel like driving a FWD car, and overall as a package it is what makes a drivers car.
You’ve really matured as a presenter. You’re right up there with the best when it comes to giving an acute sense of what it’s like to be behind the wheel. Kudos!
I think the point is. The world's are colliding these days. Honda always known to be cheaper and easier to drive (because they're engineered that way) that's why they're so popular among the 'less fortunate'. Meanwhile bmw, essentially the Honda of the Germans have arguably the same approach, they're the cheaper more sporty cars. I've been in all three Audi / bmw / Mercedes and I can vouch that bmw are far from making the most luxury cars out there but you can see their focus is more performance orientated. Now you compare the type R and the M2 today you can start to see they're building into the same car. Yes one fwd, the other is 3 door, etc. But boil down to what market they're made for and there you have it. The same people. I personally think the bmw is harder to live with every day. And one thing the journalists never talk about is reliability which is missed opportunity. All you have to do is tap into the statistics of the heritage of these two and youll start to see very clearly why honda is still excelling with selling their cars while bmw are struggling to push out their brand new M cars. Insurance, servicing, tyres. Why spend 15K more on a car that only JUST won this review when you can get a car that wins in almost everyother comparison.
Regardless of what the presenter says if you just look at his body language you can see that he is enjoying himself much more in the Type R! Honda precision engineering!
I don't know...if you care about power only, then sure go for the short-term scrap BMW. The civic type-r was built with balance, to be fast, stable, agile, and etc. Plus, the type-r is cheaper and brings in a better resale value long-term. The civic type-r is better. 👍
Keep in mind just because someone is driving an expensive car does not mean they can afford it. Its been my experience its likely they cant. Very often those people don't have a pot to piss in. Lol @@speeddemonRS3
So you fly economy from A to B and get to the same place as a person that pays more to fly first class. Dummy. The honda dealership is like economy class and the BMW "experience" is what people with money may prefer.
This is the review I’ve been waiting for. The fact that these 2 cars are even able to be compared is incredible enough as it is, given their entirely different price categories. But to me, it’s the sublime 6MT of the CTR box that wins all day long.
@@miraclemiler71 lets be honest here. The CTR is selling for practically the same price as the M2 right now LOL. Stop basing cars off of MSRP prices, especially when they don't sell for them (see CTR)...
@@JacesOwnWorldog mentioned other factors besides the price. Also tho, you know they are not talking about what greedy dealers ask. They are referring to msrp. Maybe your comment was genuine who knows but it seemed the underlying unspoken was that we all know these are being sold for much more than they are priced msrp hence the video… that was kinda the understanding of the unspoken point.
@@JacesOwnWorld There are plenty of folks getting a CTR with 5k-7k ADM. Anyone willing to currently pay north of 60k for a CTR has got more money than sense.
for resale value, the Honda wins easily. I take mine to the track (Laguna Seca) and it's an unforgettable joy coming down the corkscrew, the only thing holding you back are the more expensive cars in front of you.
This review really puts into perspective the nuances of what makes a car "great." While the M2's power and precision are undeniable, the Type R's engaging nature and versatility at a lower price point make it an underdog that's hard to ignore. It's fascinating to see how these two, from different categories and price ranges, can offer unique driving experiences that cater to different audiences. Sometimes it's not about the stats but the feel behind the wheel. 🚗🔥
@@ROORabuser hello, yes I do prefer the looks of the previous M2. The styling is much more cohesive front to back. It’s a shame that BMW could produce something visually in the new car which would make me want it for its looks alone. PS I’m no BMW hater as we have a Z4 and Autovogue 428i
Normally I'm attracted to RWD because of drifting, but this new M2 just isn't good enough to sway me away from a 4 cilinder, FWD car. Of course, that 4 cilinder FWD car is a Civic Type R, probably the best 4 cilinder car there is. ❤️ The Honda is truly a great thing, it might just be the 911 GT3 for the normal man! :)
The FL5 (I hate calling it a Civic, its a class up from the standard model) is FWD for a reason - weight. Hence why it’s built for track, just like its predecessor, the FK8.
CTR. Or even better, ITS. Traded an M3CS for it and couldn’t be happier. CS was an animal and will be much faster on the track (btw, the carbon buckets are my favorite factory seat yet.), but ITS is more fun on the street for sure which is where I’m using it more.
Great review. This is purist versus neo-purist, prestige and heritage versus innovation and technical brilliance. On a budget and with practicality in mind, I would save a load of money and buy the Honda.
I always appreciated the FK8 very much. And with this FL5, I have an option that I can drive around where the design is more appealing for a man in his 50s. Love the wide rear stance.
different technologies used in the car. I have the 2023 M240i xdrive and weighs probably more than the M2. xdrive adds weight and i installed pretty much all the options i can think of from BMW site. So they all adds up. @@WhatisaLee
Still find it weird that people find it weird to compare a Honda to a bmw. Honda make some of the best performance cars around and have for a long time.
9:32-10:09 This is where the lighter weight becomes a factor. You see, BMW "hid" its weight, by adding a lot of electronic aid into its drive. It might feel great around a corner, but you won't get all that is explained in this clip because it weighs so much.
This isn't a testament to Honda. This is a knock on BMW. No one in their right mind would choose a CTR over the older BMW 1M, or the first generation M2. But this second generation M2 is ugly and fat and if it were my money, I'd 1,000% take the CTR over it.
Make sure to check out reviews of the North America only Integra Type S. Finally we have our own forbidden fruit. The tune is more aggressive and sounds better too
Officially the ctr has a lower tune in the US compared with the rest of the world. The engine difference between a euro ctr and a type s may not be much.
I cant understand modern journalists and older model owners.The new M cars are better than the previous models in every single way.They are faster in straight line,on track,they have better quality and bigger room for people.The previous models are a bit more playful but thats the only thing that they are better than the new ones.The civic is for me the best hot hatchback that someone can buy but it cannot be compared with the M2.
At least the civic doesn't look horrendous, and do you remember how all reviews slated the heavy Lexus rcf that also weighed 1700kg. So 1700kg is ok now that BMW say so.
I think this new Civic Type R is actually a bl00dy good looking car. Not sure whats going in BMW's design dept. these days. Good looking BMW's appear to be a thing of the past.
Great Automotive Journalism to be able to put vastly two different cars together and come up with a joint commonality between the two and compare them from that exact aspect. Well done!!
I really like the new civic type R, much more than the previous gen, especially the way it looks. Honda makes some of the best 6 speeds ever. It’s nothing short of amazing. However, the M2 is hands down the car for me. It does everything so damn well, and the balance between the engine and the suspension is incredible.
Ive never really understood why people think more power equals more fun. Probably the most overrated statistic of a car. Lightweight and actual feedback through the car are far more important if you want something fun to drive. I have a Honda S2000 and can gaurentee its more fun than either because I feel like im in control entirely.
Not exactly, give you a 150 hp Civic sport, you will feel the pain. I own the 2023 M240i xdrive and just went to shop for a Civic sport. I tested driving the car and felt the car not even accelerating when I am pressing all the way down.
Both Honda and BMW seem to be at the top of their game when it comes to making their version of what a performance car is in 2023 but I have a hard time believing prospective Type R and M2 owners are in the same camp, the driving experiences on offer just seem so vastly different. Makes for a good comparison though.
Thank you Best front will drive is a mile away from an average perfuming rear will drive. The Manual M2 is not even the one to go for. The automatic M2 is in another league
@@downshiftpedalYou can't beat a manual for involvement though and I applaud BMW for offering a manual M car. Cars like these two will very soon be consigned to the history books..
The M2 is a class above in every way. Yes the Type R is a fine handling machine, but it's not a coupe, it's not RWD, and it's not got the same quality and luxury.
I think BMW should offer some "M sport" variant of the 230/330/430 that has both 300 hp and either manual or AWD options that is priced competitively with the CTR and ITS.
They did and not enough people bought them. Isn’t it crazy to think that the BMW 230i was available with a manual as recently as 2021? The base price was $36,000.
@@enricosacethey did not. They gave us 248hp, slapped an M sport badge on it, and shockingly it didn’t sell. The only 4 cylinder, RWD, sedan options of this size with roughly that kind of power are Caddy and Alfa Romeo. I love the old 2, but they phoned that in terms of competing with with CTR.
Two cars I considered purchasing. But unfortunately here in US I didn’t feel like paying over msrp for a type r so I ordered the new M2. Picking up my 2024 M2 manual tomorrow after about 8 month wait.
BMW should bring back the M235i coupe. Take the 302HP version of the company 4 banger in the M35i SUVs and put it in the 2 series coupe. That could actually be a cool and direct competitor to the CTR
Not really into front wheel drive sports cars. But the Honda is really cool. But paying over 75 grand for a 300 hp front wheel drive car. I will take the M2 all day long.
Interesting the comment he made about the FL5 vs the FK8 about how the newer Type R is not as exciting and doesn’t feel as fast. I do remember Throttle House doing a roll race between the FL5 vs a FK8, the FK8 was faster from a roll surprisingly.
I got to drive an M2 Competition (with tacky carbon pack + silly exhaust) for a couple of days a couple of weeks ago. Absolutely bonkers, loads of fun for a day, but not for me as a long term ownership thing. I suspect I'd prefer the cheaper Civic as a hooligan-mobile ownership proposition.
If I was Acura I would hate articles like this.....the Civic type R (CTR) has been out for 5-6 years I believe and Acura just released the Integra Type S(ITS) in 2023 and the car that they claim to be better than the CTR in performance/daily driving is being compared against its lesser sibling and the Golf R. If your comparing the M2 with CTR and the ITS is supposed to be better, than the CTR, what are you comparing the ITS with?
Bmw may give a bit more on performance being rear wheel drive or all wheel drive but the type r will last longer with the performance it has. Both cars at 300k the civic will still kick ass
I might be going crazy but I can actaully see the added momentum in the weight transfer through corners versus well a normal sportscar that SHOULD weigh under 3,400 lbs instead of 3,900.
A Civic doesn’t feel outgunned by a BMW M2…. By that very statement, this reviewer has absolutely no credibility nor any common sense intellect. This fella is a dope. This video is an assemblage of nonsensical dribbling. Any video with this fella in it is a complete waste of time. C’ya Felecia.
Weighs also 600lbs less. I drove both and bought type r. Love this thing, absolute canyon carver. Of course the m2 is faster but i think type r is much more fun and more practical
I think the Honda Civic type R's engine really comes into its own when you consider upgrading it. The Honda engine has so many options to improve and can make insane power withiut any real reinforcement to the pistons etc. Im sure you could add to the M2 as well hut everyone knows you can make 1000 hp easy with that type R motor and it will take it and thrive in it.
I mean I love my Honda motors but the s58 is a weapon man. You can make 600hp with just a downpipe and tune, no way the CTR is getting anywhere near that figure without extensive mods.
@@miguelbarrigos3408I know but you are only considering straight line speed. The G87 M2 stock cannot out handle the FL5 in the canyons. Yes the S58 is already a legendary motor, but the question becomes is it really worth twice the price? I was about to put a deposit on a G87 M2 earlier this year, but decided to wait. The 2025 M2 CS has already been spied. Don't sleep on the FL5 if tuned and bigger turbo at 500-550HP like I've already seen on youtube. Also don't make the mistake of forgetting the starting price of the FL5 versus the starting price of the G87 M2. With $10,000-$15,000 in mods the FL5 will fly. The G87 starts at $63k supposedly but I have seen none locally for less than $68k. With options you'll be in the $70k range. The true question: is this a daily driver or weekend canyon carving fun car? Daily M2 all day. Fun, weekend, garage queen, FL5.
@@chrisginoc you make a valid point. I drive a bmw with a b58, but always have love for Hondas. I’m hoping the fl5 really is as engaging to drive as it looks based on reviews. I’m considering it for my next car.
Amazing video. Can you do a 2023 Supra 6MT versus the G87 M2 6MT? I know the G87 is a better and faster car, but would be curious to hear your feedback.
The M240i is better than both and cheaper . 0-60 in a blistering 3.5 sec with Xdrive . The Hot hatch to buy is the GR Yaris , the Ford Puma ST is a fantastic Car for our cold UK roads . The BMW is more suited to the Autobahn
Absolutely terrible take. Top Gear I believe recently did a comparison with the type R and m240i included and it wasn't even close in terms of driving enjoyment and feel. That's a heavy isolated car that lacks any sort of involvement. Sure it's fast, but so is a Tesla. Also, the Type R is technically superior to the other hot hatches you mentioned. Seems you have a bias
As a driver’s car the Type R is the better one. The M240 is quick and a good drive but not very precise nor involving. May as well get a Model 3 Performance which is quicker and about as involving. The FL5 is also pretty rare in the UK, will only ever be a few hundred so residual values will hold unlike an m240. I had a GR Yaris and it was brilliant, possibly more fun than all of these on bumpy wet narrow roads but hard to live with day to day due to noise and an awful interior.
Sure it can. Yes, I prefer RWD and the fun you can have with front engine RWD cars but the type R is just a very good drivers car, just different. Oh, and I wish any manual car would have the type R shifters.
All that I can say is that for $20K more, a roughly 50% increase in price ($43K vs $63K base prices), the BMW had better kick the crap out of the Type R.
M2 or Civic Type R - what’s your favourite between the two?
Type R
CTR
Previous M2 CS lol
Yes!
@@PixelVoguefor sure. Is this new 2. And new M2. Slightly over styled. The 1m and original generation M2 were styled golden
Happy owner of a Championship White FL5, I think she staying with me for ever 😂
You'll grow out of it eventually, and probably want something more age appropriate! Great car in the mean time!
Same except mine is Octane grey pearl . I feel the same way this one just might be my forever car . Had a 22 M240i and all around I like my FL5 much much more 👍🏻👊🏻
@@speeddemonRS3 he will only grow out of it when he has enough for the new type r . I've had 4 going for the fk2 next
Both awesome and thank God different. Most RUclips reviewers want all vehicles to be same and offer same features, but complain about similarities and lack of distinction. I applaud you for understanding the difference and still appreciate each for what they are. I have chosen type R version which is Acura Integra Type S and my wife and I love it.
I have an M3 xdrive and Integra type s. I’ve driven the G87 M2 manual hard as well. The quick steering and light weight on the Honda products make them more engaging and confidence inspiring in turns, and there’s the whole “drive a slow car fast rather than a fast car slow” bit too. Very hard to stretch a G8x car’s legs on the street. The BMWs are objectively better cars, but I often opt to go out in the Acura because I have more fun around town at lower speeds and on tight turns
Honda/ Acura inputs feel more natural and weight is lower, BMWs have more numb and less communicative inputs, but are more capable.
M2 is still quite comfortable car and comfort is less engaging
100% as the reviewer said BMW have a rubbery feel that I just don't enjoy. Honda feels more natural.
@@sergeantsqueaker bmw is luxurious
@@minigiant8998
And very, very heavy.
The FL5 is like a surgical knife. Can't imagine what a tune will do to this car. There are a few people pushing 550-550HP on youtube in their FL5s already with better turbos. The G87 M2 definitely has more layers to uncover and one of them is weight reduction. What people forget is why they bought the car and their usage. As a daily driver I'd go M2 all day because of the comfort and luxury. As a weekend, canyons and fun 2nd or 3rd car; FL5 all day.
I own both G80 M3 xDrive, and Type R. Although the M3 is a faster car, the Type R is more engaging to drive, and is more driver focus.
And if you rather a fwd car over an xdrive m3 than you don't deserve the m3!!
Great comment...
@@anesennaidoo5279 you have no idea
@@davothegreat9990 if you have driven both of them back to back, you’ll know what I mean. I don’t mean to bash the m3, it’s a fun car to drive, a super fast one, and it is one of the tops of its own league. But as you daily the m3, some of the nuances becomes annoying, like the vague brake pedal feel, too light of steering wheel. To an extend it feels like isolated to the road. Almost like driving an electric car, and yes, i am also a current owner of tesla model 3 performance. And that almost 4000lb weight definitely not light, you certainly would feel the weight tossing around corner in twisty road like Angeles Crest. Yeah you can say the type R is FWD and not as great as OG RWD, but Honda has nailed it on the type r, it doesn’t feel like driving a FWD car, and overall as a package it is what makes a drivers car.
@@3leafzI’m surprised you would have a 50k Honda if you can afford m cars
Taken my FL5 Civic Type R to The Ring and a 3000 mile tour of Europe with a boot full of luggage four up. Utterly brilliant.
Peasant car... sorry you couldn't afford the proper car for this, that is the M5 ...
@@panathaninfyou’re seriously saying the M5 is a better car for the track than the type R?!
@@salvi1398 it’s a better car for touring. He did do 3000 miles.
@@panathaninf M5? What an utterly boring choice... I'd take a Type R over an M5 any day.
@@panathaninfm5 is a car for old people
This is a win for the civic, that car is a masterpiece❤
You’ve really matured as a presenter. You’re right up there with the best when it comes to giving an acute sense of what it’s like to be behind the wheel. Kudos!
This dude is on top of his game, I will buy both.
Give me that FL5 every day.
I hate every type r ever, i think their extremely ugly and low quality. The new one though.. omg that's a different beast.. love it
still very ugly
Hmmm both great cars no wrong choice here just a matter of taste 😊
Lol no
@@GeorgeTelopstill shit quality
It's not even a competition or a conversation. It's the honda without a doubt. That colour blue is incredible
Type R all day long for me.
I think the point is. The world's are colliding these days. Honda always known to be cheaper and easier to drive (because they're engineered that way) that's why they're so popular among the 'less fortunate'. Meanwhile bmw, essentially the Honda of the Germans have arguably the same approach, they're the cheaper more sporty cars. I've been in all three Audi / bmw / Mercedes and I can vouch that bmw are far from making the most luxury cars out there but you can see their focus is more performance orientated. Now you compare the type R and the M2 today you can start to see they're building into the same car. Yes one fwd, the other is 3 door, etc. But boil down to what market they're made for and there you have it. The same people. I personally think the bmw is harder to live with every day. And one thing the journalists never talk about is reliability which is missed opportunity. All you have to do is tap into the statistics of the heritage of these two and youll start to see very clearly why honda is still excelling with selling their cars while bmw are struggling to push out their brand new M cars. Insurance, servicing, tyres. Why spend 15K more on a car that only JUST won this review when you can get a car that wins in almost everyother comparison.
Regardless of what the presenter says if you just look at his body language you can see that he is enjoying himself much more in the Type R!
Honda precision engineering!
I don't know...if you care about power only, then sure go for the short-term scrap BMW. The civic type-r was built with balance, to be fast, stable, agile, and etc. Plus, the type-r is cheaper and brings in a better resale value long-term. The civic type-r is better. 👍
For people who can't afford the better overall car! Whatever makes you happy!😂
Keep in mind just because someone is driving an expensive car does not mean they can afford it. Its been my experience its likely they cant. Very often those people don't have a pot to piss in. Lol @@speeddemonRS3
FL5 Type R any day. And ppl said the FL5 was expensive!!!
So you fly economy from A to B and get to the same place as a person that pays more to fly first class.
Dummy.
The honda dealership is like economy class and the BMW "experience" is what people with money may prefer.
This is the review I’ve been waiting for. The fact that these 2 cars are even able to be compared is incredible enough as it is, given their entirely different price categories. But to me, it’s the sublime 6MT of the CTR box that wins all day long.
They can't really be compared. The M2 is in a completely different class. Far more power, RWD. Apples and oranges.
@@Japplesnap that’s why I made reference to the comparison itself being so incredible, and said “entirely different”.
@@miraclemiler71 lets be honest here. The CTR is selling for practically the same price as the M2 right now LOL. Stop basing cars off of MSRP prices, especially when they don't sell for them (see CTR)...
@@JacesOwnWorldog mentioned other factors besides the price. Also tho, you know they are not talking about what greedy dealers ask. They are referring to msrp.
Maybe your comment was genuine who knows but it seemed the underlying unspoken was that we all know these are being sold for much more than they are priced msrp hence the video… that was kinda the understanding of the unspoken point.
@@JacesOwnWorld There are plenty of folks getting a CTR with 5k-7k ADM. Anyone willing to currently pay north of 60k for a CTR has got more money than sense.
I've driven both and the Type R is definitely the more motorsport car of the two.
You sir can’t drive or drift . If you could you would pick the car that is similar to a Supra
@@Nick-hz2klyou sir don’t know what you’re talking about
@cben86 you don't! Fwd isn't better than rwd. Cope..
@@davothegreat9990 Where did I say FWD is better than RWD?
@@cben86 ctr is fwd and m2 is rwd...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
for resale value, the Honda wins easily. I take mine to the track (Laguna Seca) and it's an unforgettable joy coming down the corkscrew, the only thing holding you back are the more expensive cars in front of you.
That’s dope!
Minus the wing,the civic looks more mature than the M2 lol
This review really puts into perspective the nuances of what makes a car "great." While the M2's power and precision are undeniable, the Type R's engaging nature and versatility at a lower price point make it an underdog that's hard to ignore. It's fascinating to see how these two, from different categories and price ranges, can offer unique driving experiences that cater to different audiences. Sometimes it's not about the stats but the feel behind the wheel. 🚗🔥
I agree! It comes down to great insight from the Automotive Journalist.
I think its always about how a car makes you feel
For myself a car has to look not just good but great, fantastic & exciting, so with regard to this generation of the M2, it does none of the above.
@@Mika-lr4zh what about the prevoius/first gen M2? Me I love that car with the N55 engine!
@@ROORabuser hello, yes I do prefer the looks of the previous M2. The styling is much more cohesive front to back. It’s a shame that BMW could produce something visually in the new car which would make me want it for its looks alone. PS I’m no BMW hater as we have a Z4 and Autovogue 428i
Normally I'm attracted to RWD because of drifting, but this new M2 just isn't good enough to sway me away from a 4 cilinder, FWD car. Of course, that 4 cilinder FWD car is a Civic Type R, probably the best 4 cilinder car there is. ❤️ The Honda is truly a great thing, it might just be the 911 GT3 for the normal man! :)
You’ve never driven it so how can you make such a strong statement with no seat time?
😂
Yes 4cyl and FWD is the best sports car platform.
Who needs inline 6 and RWD or midengine right?? 😂😂😂
Eat 💩
@@francisgomes9976who hurt you?
@@veedee4860 your mom
The FL5 (I hate calling it a Civic, its a class up from the standard model) is FWD for a reason - weight. Hence why it’s built for track, just like its predecessor, the FK8.
CTR. Or even better, ITS. Traded an M3CS for it and couldn’t be happier. CS was an animal and will be much faster on the track (btw, the carbon buckets are my favorite factory seat yet.), but ITS is more fun on the street for sure which is where I’m using it more.
You're definately one the best car journalists today, up there in the top, good job.
Glad you’re enjoying the reviews!
I’ll take the Type R
Great review. This is purist versus neo-purist, prestige and heritage versus innovation and technical brilliance. On a budget and with practicality in mind, I would save a load of money and buy the Honda.
Glad you enjoyed!
You can see when someone comments that is a car person!
Civic type r + gr86 = bmw m2
@@danicarcardan5305 explain?
@@van_der_lindeDA type r 54.000 , gr86 40.000 vs m2 (95.000 ) my preference is (civic and Gr ) sorry no speak english
I always appreciated the FK8 very much. And with this FL5, I have an option that I can drive around where the design is more appealing for a man in his 50s. Love the wide rear stance.
CTR is stunning. Would have one anyday.
300kg weight difference is quite something.
I'm sat here wondering how the M2 manages to outweigh a car with 2 more doors and a hatchback, let alone by 300kg.
@@WhatisaLeeconsidering all the parts around the engine are plastic as well in typical BMW fashion😂
bhp is big difference, type r under powered
different technologies used in the car. I have the 2023 M240i xdrive and weighs probably more than the M2. xdrive adds weight and i installed pretty much all the options i can think of from BMW site. So they all adds up. @@WhatisaLee
That guy has charisma most other youtubers can only dream of
Mat Watson has it in spades.
@@zzhughesdsorry mate, Matt comes off a bit of a tw*t
James is a journalist not a RUclipsr..
Fast Japanese cars are brilliant, everyone should try one.
Really, will you stay with the program.
Still find it weird that people find it weird to compare a Honda to a bmw. Honda make some of the best performance cars around and have for a long time.
It's only people who have no clue.
9:32-10:09
This is where the lighter weight becomes a factor. You see, BMW "hid" its weight, by adding a lot of electronic aid into its drive. It might feel great around a corner, but you won't get all that is explained in this clip because it weighs so much.
Can’t believe it but we now live at a time where a 4 door Honda looks better than a BMW coupe
This isn't a testament to Honda. This is a knock on BMW. No one in their right mind would choose a CTR over the older BMW 1M, or the first generation M2. But this second generation M2 is ugly and fat and if it were my money, I'd 1,000% take the CTR over it.
That BMW is so dope . The Civic is cool but looks like an accord . The M2 is so fast and looks so good
@wumao8842 spoken like a true Honda fanboy that has no experience with the B58.
Type R, its more interesting, very chuckable and not engine centric. HP isn't much use unless you have somewhere to use it.
Not more interesting but more track ready. The BMW is by far the better car overall
The bmw m2s performance is better, but the Honda won’t drip oil and won’t need new vanos later.
Make sure to check out reviews of the North America only Integra Type S. Finally we have our own forbidden fruit. The tune is more aggressive and sounds better too
Officially the ctr has a lower tune in the US compared with the rest of the world. The engine difference between a euro ctr and a type s may not be much.
I cant understand modern journalists and older model owners.The new M cars are better than the previous models in every single way.They are faster in straight line,on track,they have better quality and bigger room for people.The previous models are a bit more playful but thats the only thing that they are better than the new ones.The civic is for me the best hot hatchback that someone can buy but it cannot be compared with the M2.
At least the civic doesn't look horrendous, and do you remember how all reviews slated the heavy Lexus rcf that also weighed 1700kg. So 1700kg is ok now that BMW say so.
The M2 shape is only "different" rather than "horrendous". Your perspective need a massive reevaluation.
I think this new Civic Type R is actually a bl00dy good looking car. Not sure whats going in BMW's design dept. these days. Good looking BMW's appear to be a thing of the past.
@@baoquoc3710 I know people like BMW design. Because BMW marketing tell them to.
@@baoquoc3710 It´s ugly bruh
No wonder John Cena daily drives a Type R.
It’s so funny when I tell people my car can perform as good if not better than a m2 and they look at me like I’m speaking Egyptian😂
Great reviewer, top notch. In NZ the type R is half the price of an m2. Easy choice over here. The m2 ain't twice the car.
Same deal in Israel M2 is twice as much.
Really glad I managed to grab a blue fl5.
We've got the "not rich person" versions of both of these. 4-door '06 Honda Civic & bmw 3-series.
Civic Type R all day!! Too bad that UK doesn't get the Integra Type S
I’d normally always go for the RWD option but in this case I’d take the Civic provided I can also keep my GR86.
You should also compare the experience of getting an oil change service at their respective dealerships.
Feels like there’s a story here…?
$55 for the civic and $250 for the m2 😂
@@eddsta69 Actually in reality is 0 for the BMW and 95 for the Civic.
It was 250+ for my m4 and $55 for my type r 😂 0 for the first few years with the maintenance package that costed like 1500 😂
Yep, long term ownership costs.
Great Automotive Journalism to be able to put vastly two different cars together and come up with a joint commonality between the two and compare them from that exact aspect. Well done!!
I really like the new civic type R, much more than the previous gen, especially the way it looks. Honda makes some of the best 6 speeds ever. It’s nothing short of amazing. However, the M2 is hands down the car for me. It does everything so damn well, and the balance between the engine and the suspension is incredible.
That S58 BMW engine is an absolute masterpiece. It’s the 21st century 2JZ
Will be not half as reliable though, at least longterm.
Ive never really understood why people think more power equals more fun. Probably the most overrated statistic of a car. Lightweight and actual feedback through the car are far more important if you want something fun to drive. I have a Honda S2000 and can gaurentee its more fun than either because I feel like im in control entirely.
Not exactly, give you a 150 hp Civic sport, you will feel the pain. I own the 2023 M240i xdrive and just went to shop for a Civic sport. I tested driving the car and felt the car not even accelerating when I am pressing all the way down.
@@yujie1973 Thats because it isnt lightweight
That m2 looks like its assembled with lego bricks
Both Honda and BMW seem to be at the top of their game when it comes to making their version of what a performance car is in 2023 but I have a hard time believing prospective Type R and M2 owners are in the same camp, the driving experiences on offer just seem so vastly different. Makes for a good comparison though.
Thank you
Best front will drive is a mile away from an average perfuming rear will drive. The Manual M2 is not even the one to go for. The automatic M2 is in another league
@@downshiftpedalYou can't beat a manual for involvement though and I applaud BMW for offering a manual M car. Cars like these two will very soon be consigned to the history books..
BMWs are now more for brand conscious posers than real enthusiasts
@@fhowlandClown comment kid!😂
The M2 is a class above in every way.
Yes the Type R is a fine handling machine, but it's not a coupe, it's not RWD, and it's not got the same quality and luxury.
Overpriced, Christmas lights on the dash.
The M2 is a POS
@@cplogs3828 You have zero content and no subscribers, so your opinion means f all.
I think BMW should offer some "M sport" variant of the 230/330/430 that has both 300 hp and either manual or AWD options that is priced competitively with the CTR and ITS.
They did and not enough people bought them. Isn’t it crazy to think that the BMW 230i was available with a manual as recently as 2021? The base price was $36,000.
@@enricosacethey did not. They gave us 248hp, slapped an M sport badge on it, and shockingly it didn’t sell. The only 4 cylinder, RWD, sedan options of this size with roughly that kind of power are Caddy and Alfa Romeo. I love the old 2, but they phoned that in terms of competing with with CTR.
Two cars I considered purchasing. But unfortunately here in US I didn’t feel like paying over msrp for a type r so I ordered the new M2. Picking up my 2024 M2 manual tomorrow after about 8 month wait.
Although most owners wouldn't do it I suspect a lightweight flywheel would transform that Civic into an absolute dream machine.
Rev hang happens because the ECU leaves the throttle partly open when you let off, not because of rotational inertia in the drivetrain.
@@BeanyB0bCorrect. Thanks to emissions "concerns". Technically a tune can help with rev hang.
I'm not into wrenching on expensive cars to keep them running, so it will be the Honda for me!
Good honest review!
Thanks!
BMW should bring back the M235i coupe. Take the 302HP version of the company 4 banger in the M35i SUVs and put it in the 2 series coupe. That could actually be a cool and direct competitor to the CTR
Not really into front wheel drive sports cars. But the Honda is really cool. But paying over 75 grand for a 300 hp front wheel drive car. I will take the M2 all day long.
Interesting the comment he made about the FL5 vs the FK8 about how the newer Type R is not as exciting and doesn’t feel as fast. I do remember Throttle House doing a roll race between the FL5 vs a FK8, the FK8 was faster from a roll surprisingly.
its the wheels.... 245 vs 265.. FL5 needs diff wheels for 1/4
Would go for type r. It’s lighter and feels nimble. You can only overcome so much weight with hrspwrs
Would happily save £15k and buy the Civic Type R.
I got to drive an M2 Competition (with tacky carbon pack + silly exhaust) for a couple of days a couple of weeks ago. Absolutely bonkers, loads of fun for a day, but not for me as a long term ownership thing. I suspect I'd prefer the cheaper Civic as a hooligan-mobile ownership proposition.
2021 M2 Comp?
No, 2023. @@chrisginoc
There is no 2023 M2 competition. No comp with this gen@@markpiddock2234
Type R ain’t cheap either 😂.. they’re marked up to 50-65k
@@assassin7250 ok, "less expensive"
On the road is where we can make this SEEM like it might be close.
Would take the CTR. More of a good ol JDM heads car in a new twist. Everyone and their mom with money has an M car.
If I was Acura I would hate articles like this.....the Civic type R (CTR) has been out for 5-6 years I believe and Acura just released the Integra Type S(ITS) in 2023 and the car that they claim to be better than the CTR in performance/daily driving is being compared against its lesser sibling and the Golf R.
If your comparing the M2 with CTR and the ITS is supposed to be better, than the CTR, what are you comparing the ITS with?
They should’ve included SHAWD as an option and a DCT. 🤷🏿♂️
M2 is like a wide body race car. And you can get one at MSRP. Honda will charge $10-20k dealer markup.
Bmw may give a bit more on performance being rear wheel drive or all wheel drive but the type r will last longer with the performance it has. Both cars at 300k the civic will still kick ass
thanks i learned alot from your type r vs RS3 video!
Maybe its just me but the Civic looks better
I might be going crazy but I can actaully see the added momentum in the weight transfer through corners versus well a normal sportscar that SHOULD weigh under 3,400 lbs instead of 3,900.
The Civic wins straight out of the gate on looks alone.
BMW has battered the new M2 with an ugly stick somethin' fierce
I’ve never seen a more divided comment section and fan base. This guy has legit sparked a war between fanboys💯❤️🔥⚡️⚡️⚡️
Civic as good as is were not suggesting that a potential M2 buyer is going to think "no i'll go for the Civic instead"?
I would take M2 without a single doubt. G87 will be significantly faster on any track.
A Civic doesn’t feel outgunned by a BMW M2…. By that very statement, this reviewer has absolutely no credibility nor any common sense intellect. This fella is a dope. This video is an assemblage of nonsensical dribbling. Any video with this fella in it is a complete waste of time. C’ya Felecia.
Weighs also 600lbs less. I drove both and bought type r. Love this thing, absolute canyon carver. Of course the m2 is faster but i think type r is much more fun and more practical
The M2 is really nice but the R makes more sense for regular folks and doesn’t give anything up to the BMW. BMW maintenance is $$$.
BMW maintenance is free. Can't get cheaper than that.
@@oemj7147 only under warranty, 3yrs/60k
Can't wait for BMW to make the M2 badge black. Game over in its class.
Honda Civic all day long 👍
The M2 is a re-skinned M4 with less power. Shite cost cutting
M2 anytime nothing in the class even close ...
I think the Honda Civic type R's engine really comes into its own when you consider upgrading it. The Honda engine has so many options to improve and can make insane power withiut any real reinforcement to the pistons etc. Im sure you could add to the M2 as well hut everyone knows you can make 1000 hp easy with that type R motor and it will take it and thrive in it.
Yes but what is the point of 1000hp when it will completely overwhelm the FWD platform? For context I’m a CTR guy myself.
your a clown, u can do the exact some with a single tune on the s58 to turn it into a monster
I mean I love my Honda motors but the s58 is a weapon man. You can make 600hp with just a downpipe and tune, no way the CTR is getting anywhere near that figure without extensive mods.
@@miguelbarrigos3408I know but you are only considering straight line speed. The G87 M2 stock cannot out handle the FL5 in the canyons. Yes the S58 is already a legendary motor, but the question becomes is it really worth twice the price? I was about to put a deposit on a G87 M2 earlier this year, but decided to wait. The 2025 M2 CS has already been spied. Don't sleep on the FL5 if tuned and bigger turbo at 500-550HP like I've already seen on youtube. Also don't make the mistake of forgetting the starting price of the FL5 versus the starting price of the G87 M2. With $10,000-$15,000 in mods the FL5 will fly. The G87 starts at $63k supposedly but I have seen none locally for less than $68k. With options you'll be in the $70k range. The true question: is this a daily driver or weekend canyon carving fun car? Daily M2 all day. Fun, weekend, garage queen, FL5.
@@chrisginoc you make a valid point. I drive a bmw with a b58, but always have love for Hondas. I’m hoping the fl5 really is as engaging to drive as it looks based on reviews. I’m considering it for my next car.
Amazing video. Can you do a 2023 Supra 6MT versus the G87 M2 6MT? I know the G87 is a better and faster car, but would be curious to hear your feedback.
Glad you enjoyed. Great idea, we might just do that…
The M240i is better than both and cheaper . 0-60 in a blistering 3.5 sec with Xdrive . The Hot hatch to buy is the GR Yaris , the Ford Puma ST is a fantastic Car for our cold UK roads . The BMW is more suited to the Autobahn
Absolutely terrible take. Top Gear I believe recently did a comparison with the type R and m240i included and it wasn't even close in terms of driving enjoyment and feel. That's a heavy isolated car that lacks any sort of involvement. Sure it's fast, but so is a Tesla. Also, the Type R is technically superior to the other hot hatches you mentioned. Seems you have a bias
As a driver’s car the Type R is the better one. The M240 is quick and a good drive but not very precise nor involving. May as well get a Model 3 Performance which is quicker and about as involving.
The FL5 is also pretty rare in the UK, will only ever be a few hundred so residual values will hold unlike an m240.
I had a GR Yaris and it was brilliant, possibly more fun than all of these on bumpy wet narrow roads but hard to live with day to day due to noise and an awful interior.
You'd end up paying the same for the Type R anyways. I'd prefer the Acura Type-S personally because I don't care for the red interior.
you lost me at FWD! I do admire the attempt here tho. very interesting comparison even tho probably no one is going to be cross shopping these 2 cars.
Well done, a great review 👏
Thanks!
What I'm concerned is in couple of years, BMW's seals and gaskets will begin to fail best case scenario.
Here in America the type r cost almost the same price sometimes more than the m2 crazy but for real.
Because it's so sought after and for good reason.
America is a better place to drive faster cars, so M2 wins. @@stavroshadjiyiannis6283
I take RWD all day long. There is a reason you don't see FWD in the top teirs of racing.
Normally can’t fault Car’s production values but they’ve clearly mixed up the BMW footage with shots of some hellish 1980s fibreglass kit car.
😬😬
Sure it can. Yes, I prefer RWD and the fun you can have with front engine RWD cars but the type R is just a very good drivers car, just different. Oh, and I wish any manual car would have the type R shifters.
All that I can say is that for $20K more, a roughly 50% increase in price ($43K vs $63K base prices), the BMW had better kick the crap out of the Type R.
The video quality has jumped up on the last few videos, reminds me of the old Carfection
Thank you!
Wow these shots are amazing!