As a Norwegian Sami, I find the conversation very enlightening. The freezing in time of culture is something we still struggle with, our identity as an ethnic group is very much still the same as the colonial power interpreted us to be. Our "cultural" work is still seen as Reindeer herding, the true Sami is connected to the Reindeer. It is like an exhibition of last couple of centuries racism, only perpetuated by us. This frozen image of what a Sami person is, is so strong in society, that a farmer in the mid of Norway refused the idea that one man could even be a Sami, because, as he put it, the man was well educated and had a high IQ. Within the Sami community, progressing as a people is watched with unrest, as one sees it as leaving one's Sami culture behind - meaning not wearing last centuries traditional clothing and not working in a profession connected to either reindeer herding, making of handicraft which was sought after by tourists, teaching or preaching. Our history is close to wiped out, and can only be found by trawling Danish, Russian, Swedish and Norwegian archives - and those relating to us are rarely digitalized, so you have to go the the cities archives are kept. Our genocide was a cultural one, they stole our identities and history and lives away - but kept our ancestors alive, because they paid their much needed taxes to the crowns. If we do not find a way forward where our cultural territory and social territory is broadened and reinvented, the colonial powers will have succeeded. They would have made us into memorials of our own selves, a relic of what once was and no longer exists. Thank you both, in particular Mordecai, for inspiration and an angle to move forward. Much obliged.
Not to make the conversation about a disenfranchised European group but it doesn't make sense. How do you distinguish a Norwegian Sami from a Norwegian? This doesn't seem related.
All your episodes are great but this one really hit the ball out of the park for me as it aligns with a similar epiphany I recently had. We're not fighting individuals, we're fighting a *system*. The individuals in the system are cogs in the larger machine and anytime you remove one person, they'll simply be replaced by another. The settler colonial system we're living in is a double-sided coin with the West on one side and our local colonizers on the other, and they are both invested in keeping this system going for their own benefit, at our collective expense. This is why black people are always trying to find inclusivity in white spaces - we want to move into their neighbourhoods instead of building our own from scratch, we want to wear their brands instead of creating/supporting our own, we want to send our kids to their schools, we want to adopt their leisure lifestyles, we want to adopt their diets without considering whether our biology is suited to their foods, etc etc etc. The day majority of Kenyans wake up and start asking ourselves who we are outside of the European gaze is the day we'll overthrow this current system.
I keep telling people africans we are the noble ones..our humanity and conscience is high. Look at southafrica. They stood for palestine.. when others first nations their sons and daughters still have colonizer blood.. the right to rule and subject the others.. if an african nation was in the palestine position... even arabs would never stand for you.. .. arabs ran away from palestines.. etc..
Wandia na Mordecai asanteni sana kwa kazi hii nzuri. Keep on informing and educating us. It has been argued that the most important real estate is the mind. Kenya is a construct for serving the interests of empire. We are significantly screwed as we have failed to change the systems created to oppress the natives.
Very interesting and insightful. I''m from a former British Colony Belize that has a history of slavery and can identify with the ways the British exploited the natural wealth and controlled the population with the same education system that serve them.
I think Prof Njoya, mentioned something along the lines that in Kenya the thought there are too many Kenyans going to university...The crazy thing is I'm witnessing the same stance by the current South African government, which is drastically cutting budgets to assist students from certain backgrounds to access university. I learn so much from this channel, and much respect from a South African subscriber.
I'm Kenyan, and its very interesting to learn that the same thing is happening in SA.. but I guess at the end of the day, its not too surprising. I also learn a lot from South African channels that talk about similar issues. South Africa, Kenya and a few other African countries experienced more or less the same brand of settler colonialism whereby similar tactics of subjugating the indigenous Africans were employed. In fact many of the tactics that were meted out on indigenous Kenyans had already been 'tried and tested' in SA, Namibia and Zimbabwe, and it seems that the same techniques are still being used on us collectively. Hopefully we can use these online platforms to think through our similar issues and come up with home-made ideas and solutions, and not just more Western propaganda.
@@Jazz-fg2dm if people are going to university to get well paying jobs, I can assure you that is not the best way. If you look at the economy in Canada there are only jobs for trades and health care workers...it's inevitable as the population ages. A plumber or electrician can make 3 times the salary as someone with an arts or business degree, double that of an undergraduate science degree. You may not be feeling the shortage yet because they are filled by people from other countries, but those people are retiring.
So many things I have been questioning have been answered today or been revealed to be what it is . Thanks, Mordecai and Wandia for this great start of 2024
I am deeply moved, challenged, and opened by this dialogue. I so much want to talk with you in person. As a White American Woman Christian minister, you are speaking from the other side of the settler colonial context. I am awed by your understanding that our issues are spiritual in nature. Not religious. Spiritual. And the understanding of "native" as free and not tribal, this is brilliant. I pray the "natives" here in the US can break us free. Thank you.
@@t3b0g0no need to be so harsh towards her bro. We can have discussions, it is fine. She is also in agreement and is not opposed to what the prof is saying. The problem is the structure, not the random people living in the structure. So lets be open to all allies
@@mohamedyusuf2284Who do you think runs these structures my friend? Who owns and controls them? A structure doesn’t run by itself. Europeans don’t recognise that they all have the same colonial mentality, just as many of us Africans don’t recognise it. We have all been brainwashed in the same way and while some of us agree that breaking down these systems is the only way to reset our path, Europeans would never want to do so. They all want to maintain capitalism because it sustains them and suppresses Africans.
I must say, this conversation has stood the test of time, and we are seeing things unfold very quickly today. Many young people are saying they don't want ethnic divisions or a fascination with culture. I also like how you have drawn the correlation between our current political system and settler colonialism. These types of conversations should take place more often. Good job
I’m a Haitian American and would sit in my college ethics class angry at what is being taught because it always felt like a type of propaganda because being taught about these scholars that they profess to be the standard not rule in a way that is ethical or inclusive.
It’s quite striking that we didn’t/ don’t hate imperialism just that we want to be included. Quite a sad state of affair but this is emancipation of the mind.
Settlerism and fascism go hand in hand. In its historical context, fascism was an alliance of industry and far-right politics that gave capital a cop out from the growing militant labour activism culminating from the precarious hyper-exploitative conditions of capitalism, grafting Ogada's definition of settlers and natives, fascism becomes a tool of settler colonialism for bludgeoning native thinking that challenges settlerism's colonial premises.
Thanks so much for this piece. As an African scientist who tries to pay close attention to world dynamics and history, I greatly appreciate the way you showed the ties between settler colonialism and science. I see the relationship all the time yet if you try and speak about it, you’re labeled as being obsessed with race lol. It’s really great to see another scientist speak on this.
Thank you for this discussion. I just want to add that learning the colonialists' languages was not initiated by the foreigners. Africans have shown significant aptitude in mastering language since time immemorial. A good population of Africans were polyglots because that was part of the way of life in a land with nations as diverse as ours. In order to interact and transact with another tribe it was essential to know a significant part of who they were and language is a huge part of that significance. So Africans were picking up the language of the foreigners very quickly (fortunately or unfortunately)for them and the foreigners. I'm tempted to say it would be the same for the other indigenous communities all over the world. It was almost always the indigenous peoples picking up the language of the foreigners but hardly the other way around. Asante sana 🙏🏿
48:00 Makes sense why president Ruto makes declarations on everything. Because of his PHD, he sees everyone else as a mtu-wa-mkono, to listen but not be heard.
Loving this conversation, from Australia, the whole world is suffeting ftom the oppression of imperialism, the next century belongs to Africa. We need to be like Jesus, just happy to love and serve each other.
From the conversation I agree with Wandia that thinking is one of the toughest things anyone can do. I wonder whether we wan't to crash as a society to realise that the current path is wrong.
Totally brilliant take on the colonized mind and imperialism…Mr. Mordecia Ogada should have a large platform to educate all whose minds and identities are trapped by post& neo colonialism, and all the “isims” such as imperialism, capitalism, socialism, communism, fascism, etc…
Thanks for the talk , eye opening . Never heard anything as awful as "training people to FIT into another countries factory" what are we doing to ourselves?....SMH
It is incomprehensible that Kenya through her experiences with wazungu and the Mwarabu . Disappointingly, one of the countries from a list of African countries, sold up its prime lush forestry to the UAE, for Carbon Credits.
Ownership is the major problem mwalimu, let's be prudent in our use of resources and be open to share... people tend to forget that when we leave this earth,we go with nothing useful from this rat race
Thank you.... This explains what happens with 'activists' or even errant natives who once they get to those positions in power, they become settlers, because that's what they aspired even before.
I can understand why they wouldn't listen to the prof. He connects the dots and lays the problem right at the feet of the chief protagonists - capitalists (people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing).
Nilireach the same conclusion, most Kenyan natives tunataka kuonja na kubenefit from this exploitative system and then only after that tunaeza taka kuidestroy. ni kama tunataka kuonja hio life British wanaishi na waliishi na walijenga using native Land, Labour yetu etc. hio ni a major challenge to making sure hii system imedestroyiwa. ni kama it's a desire and curiosity that must be satisfied
The problems they summarise are not only Kenyan issues but issues found throughout Africa - the idiocy of the colonised mindset. It is why Africa cannot capitalise on it's abundant human and natural resources.
I live in Nova Scotia on the east coast of Canada, and I can attest to the bison being close to extinction. Many of the last ones were sent here and the herds were grown until they could replenish the plains. My father used to take me to see them Americans also killed all of their bald eagles, their national symbol, as trophies. They had to take nesting pairs from here to replenish them too. They have never been eaten here, or anywhere. but they are amazing to watch. I agree that it is the settler colonial system which caused this...they can't just appreciate nature. They have to control it. They don't even understand the importance of leaving some land in its natural state.
Nuclear weapons. Newclear weapons. Israel behaviour shown us that Africa must possess newclear weapons immediately without delay. Get lost them saints Africa newclear free zone. Nonsense!
The only way to defeat the settler colonial legacy in Kenya is by continuing to integrate economically and politically with East Africa. 🇺🇬🇹🇿🇷🇼🇰🇪🇧🇮🇨🇩🇸🇴🇸🇸 Yaani, create a new country wih a different national ethos.
We can't expect anything different from colonialism. Nothing alarms me any more ..look at what they did with my ancestors, put them in boats, shipped them from Africa to Jamaica 🇯🇲 to till lands for them horrible history .
As a Norwegian Sami, I find the conversation very enlightening. The freezing in time of culture is something we still struggle with, our identity as an ethnic group is very much still the same as the colonial power interpreted us to be. Our "cultural" work is still seen as Reindeer herding, the true Sami is connected to the Reindeer. It is like an exhibition of last couple of centuries racism, only perpetuated by us. This frozen image of what a Sami person is, is so strong in society, that a farmer in the mid of Norway refused the idea that one man could even be a Sami, because, as he put it, the man was well educated and had a high IQ. Within the Sami community, progressing as a people is watched with unrest, as one sees it as leaving one's Sami culture behind - meaning not wearing last centuries traditional clothing and not working in a profession connected to either reindeer herding, making of handicraft which was sought after by tourists, teaching or preaching. Our history is close to wiped out, and can only be found by trawling Danish, Russian, Swedish and Norwegian archives - and those relating to us are rarely digitalized, so you have to go the the cities archives are kept. Our genocide was a cultural one, they stole our identities and history and lives away - but kept our ancestors alive, because they paid their much needed taxes to the crowns. If we do not find a way forward where our cultural territory and social territory is broadened and reinvented, the colonial powers will have succeeded. They would have made us into memorials of our own selves, a relic of what once was and no longer exists. Thank you both, in particular Mordecai, for inspiration and an angle to move forward. Much obliged.
Incredibly insightful post. Thank you for sharing
This is incredible,exactly what happened to the maa of kenya
Thank you for telling your story. I think the Sami are much like the Hawaiians...indigenous but overlooked.
Not to make the conversation about a disenfranchised European group but it doesn't make sense. How do you distinguish a Norwegian Sami from a Norwegian? This doesn't seem related.
Relevant to black Americans too. Thank you.
All your episodes are great but this one really hit the ball out of the park for me as it aligns with a similar epiphany I recently had. We're not fighting individuals, we're fighting a *system*. The individuals in the system are cogs in the larger machine and anytime you remove one person, they'll simply be replaced by another. The settler colonial system we're living in is a double-sided coin with the West on one side and our local colonizers on the other, and they are both invested in keeping this system going for their own benefit, at our collective expense.
This is why black people are always trying to find inclusivity in white spaces - we want to move into their neighbourhoods instead of building our own from scratch, we want to wear their brands instead of creating/supporting our own, we want to send our kids to their schools, we want to adopt their leisure lifestyles, we want to adopt their diets without considering whether our biology is suited to their foods, etc etc etc.
The day majority of Kenyans wake up and start asking ourselves who we are outside of the European gaze is the day we'll overthrow this current system.
Excellent comment.
Exactly 💯 it's a system
Visens/American buffalo/are free range animals. But evil europans slaught almost 70-89, 000.000.00 of them They were slaughtered mainly for leather.
I keep telling people africans we are the noble ones..our humanity and conscience is high. Look at southafrica. They stood for palestine.. when others first nations their sons and daughters still have colonizer blood.. the right to rule and subject the others.. if an african nation was in the palestine position... even arabs would never stand for you.. .. arabs ran away from palestines.. etc..
Wandia na Mordecai asanteni sana kwa kazi hii nzuri. Keep on informing and educating us. It has been argued that the most important real estate is the mind.
Kenya is a construct for serving the interests of empire. We are significantly screwed as we have failed to change the systems created to oppress the natives.
Thanks Omwami for the encouraging words
Very interesting and insightful. I''m from a former British Colony Belize that has a history of slavery and can identify with the ways the British exploited the natural wealth and controlled the population with the same education system that serve them.
captivating conversation. to think kenya SA and zim could have been completely settled makes me shiver
Great conversation makes so much sense. Thank you, wonderful people, for inviting me,keep being brave ❤️
This is probably the most enlightening conversation I have listened to in years. Many many thanks.
I think Prof Njoya, mentioned something along the lines that in Kenya the thought there are too many Kenyans going to university...The crazy thing is I'm witnessing the same stance by the current South African government, which is drastically cutting budgets to assist students from certain backgrounds to access university. I learn so much from this channel, and much respect from a South African subscriber.
I'm Kenyan, and its very interesting to learn that the same thing is happening in SA..
but I guess at the end of the day, its not too surprising. I also learn a lot from South African channels that talk about similar issues. South Africa, Kenya and a few other African countries experienced more or less the same brand of settler colonialism whereby similar tactics of subjugating the indigenous Africans were employed.
In fact many of the tactics that were meted out on indigenous Kenyans had already been 'tried and tested' in SA, Namibia and Zimbabwe, and it seems that the same techniques are still being used on us collectively.
Hopefully we can use these online platforms to think through our similar issues and come up with home-made ideas and solutions, and not just more Western propaganda.
@@Jazz-fg2dm if people are going to university to get well paying jobs, I can assure you that is not the best way. If you look at the economy in Canada there are only jobs for trades and health care workers...it's inevitable as the population ages. A plumber or electrician can make 3 times the salary as someone with an arts or business degree, double that of an undergraduate science degree. You may not be feeling the shortage yet because they are filled by people from other countries, but those people are retiring.
@@Jazz-fg2dmmachines..must a human do demeaning work? Nonsense
So many things I have been questioning have been answered today or been revealed to be what it is . Thanks, Mordecai and Wandia for this great start of 2024
I am deeply moved, challenged, and opened by this dialogue. I so much want to talk with you in person.
As a White American Woman Christian minister, you are speaking from the other side of the settler colonial context. I am awed by your understanding that our issues are spiritual in nature. Not religious. Spiritual.
And the understanding of "native" as free and not tribal, this is brilliant. I pray the "natives" here in the US can break us free.
Thank you.
@@t3b0g0no need to be so harsh towards her bro. We can have discussions, it is fine. She is also in agreement and is not opposed to what the prof is saying. The problem is the structure, not the random people living in the structure. So lets be open to all allies
@@mohamedyusuf2284Who do you think runs these structures my friend? Who owns and controls them? A structure doesn’t run by itself. Europeans don’t recognise that they all have the same colonial mentality, just as many of us Africans don’t recognise it. We have all been brainwashed in the same way and while some of us agree that breaking down these systems is the only way to reset our path, Europeans would never want to do so. They all want to maintain capitalism because it sustains them and suppresses Africans.
Now this what we call Real learned friends love u all 🇺🇬
What an eye-opener. Deep, incisive, and REAL.
I must say, this conversation has stood the test of time, and we are seeing things unfold very quickly today. Many young people are saying they don't want ethnic divisions or a fascination with culture. I also like how you have drawn the correlation between our current political system and settler colonialism. These types of conversations should take place more often. Good job
This is chilling
These two define true intellectualism whose objective must be to constantly learn and impart said knowledge. Asante sana
I’m a Haitian American and would sit in my college ethics class angry at what is being taught because it always felt like a type of propaganda because being taught about these scholars that they profess to be the standard not rule in a way that is ethical or inclusive.
Thank you both for another deep insightful discussion. We must change the way we think now to change Kenya for the better.
Maisha Kazini is really a master class. I have learnt alot from your conversations.
It’s quite striking that we didn’t/ don’t hate imperialism just that we want to be included. Quite a sad state of affair but this is emancipation of the mind.
I thoroughly enjoy this intellectual discourse especially as a young leader who believes in the principles of governance.
Such an insightful conversation, always a pleasure listening to the two of you.
Settlerism and fascism go hand in hand. In its historical context, fascism was an alliance of industry and far-right politics that gave capital a cop out from the growing militant labour activism culminating from the precarious hyper-exploitative conditions of capitalism, grafting Ogada's definition of settlers and natives, fascism becomes a tool of settler colonialism for bludgeoning native thinking that challenges settlerism's colonial premises.
Thanks so much for this piece. As an African scientist who tries to pay close attention to world dynamics and history, I greatly appreciate the way you showed the ties between settler colonialism and science. I see the relationship all the time yet if you try and speak about it, you’re labeled as being obsessed with race lol. It’s really great to see another scientist speak on this.
Thank you for this discussion. I just want to add that learning the colonialists' languages was not initiated by the foreigners. Africans have shown significant aptitude in mastering language since time immemorial. A good population of Africans were polyglots because that was part of the way of life in a land with nations as diverse as ours. In order to interact and transact with another tribe it was essential to know a significant part of who they were and language is a huge part of that significance. So Africans were picking up the language of the foreigners very quickly (fortunately or unfortunately)for them and the foreigners. I'm tempted to say it would be the same for the other indigenous communities all over the world. It was almost always the indigenous peoples picking up the language of the foreigners but hardly the other way around. Asante sana 🙏🏿
48:00 Makes sense why president Ruto makes declarations on everything. Because of his PHD, he sees everyone else as a mtu-wa-mkono, to listen but not be heard.
Brilliant analysis. Brave and Succinct.
This is very insightful. I have noticed billboards advertising crusades have increased in the past year.
He is a very inteligent brother. Thx for sharing your thoughts
"The problem is spiritual"....agreed
Also please do a part 2 on so called carbon projects in Kenya. I feel like this is the next crisis waiting to happen.
Great conversation, we can't wait for more.
I pray that the two of you as well as all those other people you host on your show never tire from this work, you are transforming minds.
Loving this conversation, from Australia, the whole world is suffeting ftom the oppression of imperialism, the next century belongs to Africa. We need to be like Jesus, just happy to love and serve each other.
Western religions are the last place of African slavery ,
Still existing today
From the conversation I agree with Wandia that thinking is one of the toughest things anyone can do. I wonder whether we wan't to crash as a society to realise that the current path is wrong.
Informative, sobering and enlightening! 🙏
Totally brilliant take on the colonized mind and imperialism…Mr. Mordecia Ogada should have a large platform to educate all whose minds and identities are trapped by post& neo colonialism, and all the “isims” such as imperialism, capitalism, socialism, communism, fascism, etc…
The system will stay in place as long as we are deprived off industrialisation.
J. A Hunter was a killer... and Wikipedia and History books still publish him as a hero who held big game world record! Like it is a good thing!
Thank you both so much. Extremely insightful conversation between you two. I had so many aha moments, so many dots that finally connected.
Thanks for the talk , eye opening . Never heard anything as awful as "training people to FIT into another countries factory" what are we doing to ourselves?....SMH
We are learning... Great work
Thank you!!
Wah!!!! another enlightening session
Thankyou. Keep this conversations going!!!!!!!!!
Great conversation.
Brilliant and insightful as always. (I'm a child of empire who agrees 100%.)
It is incomprehensible that Kenya through her experiences with wazungu and the Mwarabu .
Disappointingly, one of the countries from a list of African countries, sold up its prime lush forestry to the UAE, for Carbon Credits.
Not only one country but three I believe.
COVID taught me a big lesson but unfortunately the sources of my information are noew blocked from access.
Enlightening.
1:20:25 am shocked beyond words. That's evil 😢
Ownership is the major problem mwalimu, let's be prudent in our use of resources and be open to share... people tend to forget that when we leave this earth,we go with nothing useful from this rat race
Thank you....
This explains what happens with 'activists' or even errant natives who once they get to those positions in power, they become settlers, because that's what they aspired even before.
I can understand why they wouldn't listen to the prof. He connects the dots and lays the problem right at the feet of the chief protagonists - capitalists (people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing).
Nilireach the same conclusion, most Kenyan natives tunataka kuonja na kubenefit from this exploitative system and then only after that tunaeza taka kuidestroy. ni kama tunataka kuonja hio life British wanaishi na waliishi na walijenga using native Land, Labour yetu etc. hio ni a major challenge to making sure hii system imedestroyiwa. ni kama it's a desire and curiosity that must be satisfied
The problems they summarise are not only Kenyan issues but issues found throughout Africa - the idiocy of the colonised mindset. It is why Africa cannot capitalise on it's abundant human and natural resources.
The African Russie primate is closest to the theats/Cheeters. Both weigh 70 kgs or 140 pds.Both climbed trees to avoid predators and safety.
I live in Nova Scotia on the east coast of Canada, and I can attest to the bison being close to extinction. Many of the last ones were sent here and the herds were grown until they could replenish the plains. My father used to take me to see them
Americans also killed all of their bald eagles, their national symbol, as trophies. They had to take nesting pairs from here to replenish them too. They have never been eaten here, or anywhere. but they are amazing to watch. I agree that it is the settler colonial system which caused this...they can't just appreciate nature. They have to control it. They don't even understand the importance of leaving some land in its natural state.
Patrick Wolf or Richard Wolf?
I understand this video courtesy of islamic eschatology.
We are fighting to be included in imperialism.wow.no lies told
Can you put the article in the link please
Nuclear weapons. Newclear weapons. Israel behaviour shown us that Africa must possess newclear weapons immediately without delay. Get lost them saints Africa newclear free zone. Nonsense!
The only way to defeat the settler colonial legacy in Kenya is by continuing to integrate economically and politically with East Africa. 🇺🇬🇹🇿🇷🇼🇰🇪🇧🇮🇨🇩🇸🇴🇸🇸
Yaani, create a new country wih a different national ethos.
Stop saying it like it's a new concept ...
We can't expect anything different from colonialism. Nothing alarms me any more ..look at what they did with my ancestors, put them in boats, shipped them from Africa to Jamaica 🇯🇲 to till lands for them horrible history .